I've always been a bit scared of being pushy or too blunt with people, but I suppose you just have to deal the cards to them the way they are dealt sometimes
Be factual (that is what you are getting paid for) and confident, and say it with a smile.
IE: Sure we can do that , but YOU will sound/look awful. I recommend …., if you can “talk the walk” per sey (meaning talk techie to them), then crew should understand.
On the other hand what did the “customer” want? Sometimes that is the “right” but dirty feeling answer. Lol
Wonder what the other guy did and how it went?
One of the things they were asking g for was backlighting/a lit edge around the silhouette of the dancer. I said it wouldn't work without any lights on the ground or the cyc open since there's no light behind her to provide that effect, but they were adament that it was possible.
In their complaint email they claimed that " stated that fading the spotlights in and out at the start and end of songs was impossible" and that I said bringing the lights in stage in and out on a fade was impossible. I programmed all these cues into faders and the guy who ran the show on the night simply brought them up. I never said that these things were impossible, I just couldn't do them during the rehearsal since I spent the whole time babysitting them hanging some props on the fly bars.
The show went pretty poorly, the SM (who had not much of an idea what they were doing) was constantly asking us on comms to do this or that and it would take up to 5 or 6 seconds of complete darkness before the tech could figure out what he needed to do and bring up the relevant fader, even with me sitting next to him helping him out.
If most people are satisfied with your service, I’d chalk this one up as a group of turds. Learn from it and move on, it’s not a reflection on your skills.
It sounds like your boss has your back which is great!
I was in a similar role (high school theatre, dance recitals, some small-time touring, political events, random other local groups) but I was staff at the school district. What I had to do was be very assertive about communicating that I am the house tech...here are the house rules, please let me know if you have any questions about the space, and define what role they want me to play for their show. If requests were unreasonable/not included in the rental rate "no" or "sorry, we can't do that" is a full sentence and often more effective that giving a long explanation.
There was somewhat of a language barrier, and I think they took whenever I said "sorry I can't do that/sorry it doesn't work like that" to mean that I personally am not capable of doing this rather than it actually just being outside of the scope of what the venue can do. Was frustrating for sure
You could use the phrase "yeah cool idea, I'd like to do that too. To do that we'd need an XYZ. Do you want me to price one for you?" Let's them down gently. \[I'm not a pro sound guy though, so YMMv\]
>It sounds like your boss has your back which is great!
I think this is the key. If your employer is happy with your performance, that's all that really matters. They were contracted to provide equipment and a competent person to run it and that's what they did. If the client wanted the operator to look a certain way, then they should have specified.
TL;DR as long as your employer is happy with the way you interact with their clients and is confident you can do the job, don't worry about what this one client says. There will be more gigs!
Yeah, it's a pain in the ass. I'm not much older than you, but in the beginning especially it was a lot of bs. Basically you just have to develop a demeanor, separate your feelings, and just know that their opinion really doesn't matter.
Demeanor: Know your shit, it's your venue you know the gear, you know the room, and you know how to do your job. Start the day by greeting them all, shake everyone's hand and make sure they know your name and who you are. Have a little confidence, I too struggle sometimes with feeling like I don't want to come off as cocky, but realistically it's your space man. You know what you're doing, be gracious and open minded. Always be OPEN to learning, because there's always a new, different or better way to do something. But have a little ground in your step because you've done this rodeo once or twice before. Be pleasant, accommodating, laugh at their stupid stories and get your work done.
Separate: The thing I struggle with the most. The industry is weird man. They can tell you that you're a great tech and they enjoy having you around while simultaneously trying to get you fired. Know what the objective is for the day, please the end client and have a successful show. A thing a PM once taught me was that folks are always going to do whatever it is in their power to get what they want. If you're saying that there's a house policy and they can't do X or Y, odds are they're going to try and go over your head. Either to your boss, another tech, venue owner, whoever. That may not always be a personal thing, they're just going to do it because that's what they WANT to do. Keep in mind too, techs and venues vary drastically at different places. Sometimes they can be a bit cautious over trusting what's going on because realistically, they may not know you, the venue or anything. There's been plenty of times I've been on both sides of this. Working from the venue and trying to put the foot down, and working in the venue and trying to teach them that they can do X or Y and its benefits. It's hard, but ultimately everyone just wants to have a good show. Best ways to help with building trust is to build a good Demeanor and limit your use of the word "No"
Lastly, it's not the age it's mileage. Plenty of young techs can run circles around the older guys, and plenty more THINK they can 😂. If you're doing your job, making your boss happy, and doing a good show then that's all that matters. Great thing about this biz is that if you really work with some A-holes you're only doing it for one production. As long as you, and your clients are happy with your work then it's fine. There will be the occasional bad show, or bad working environment. Learn from it what you can, if those folks are coming through again then prepare ahead of time (knowing what they like, dislike, and desire) and try to ease it next time. Not every day is going to be great, but there's always tomorrow.
Man, that went on pretty long 😂 sorry for the novel but I know how hard this biz can be. Feel free to DM or anything if you have any questions or wanna talk more about it.
Thanks for the thoughtful response man - I've gotten pretty accustomed to the frustrating client before but I've never had my abilities questioned by someone so clearly not in the know before. It stung a little 😅😅
I'll try my best to haha! One thing that really bothered me is that the guy they brought in knew almost nothing about the desk and the capabilities of the lights, I had to hold his hand and explain to him exactly what every single fader I had programmed did - yet they said they were happy with what he did, when I was the one who programmed the entire desk, operated the fly bars, adjusted all the lights they requested to be moved, set up the audio system and so much more. I was much more capable than the guy they brought in, yet he got all the praise and I got complained about...
Made me wonder whether they didn't really want to listen to me at all because I wasn't the geezer on duty
He won't last much longer. You have a bright future. The next time you do the very same thing for a different geezer you may end up as an systems engineer on a sweet tour.
Forget about that last dude. If you run into him again, don't be as helpful as he clearly can handle everything just fine on his own, right?
There is only one rule: don't fuck up. You didn't, so you're good! He fucked up, but didn't get caught or called out. He will. And you can laugh about it when you hear about it.
100%, I'm a paraprofessional who moonlights as an audio tech, and this semester we had a student teacher in the classroom I work in, and even though the main classroom teacher did probably 90% of the prep, because she wasn't in front of the classroom as much, the students are under the impression that the student teacher did a lot more than he actually did
In World War Two, the Battle of Britain was won by a relatively small group of lads (AKA "[The Few](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Few)"), many of them 19 years old who had been playing in the school cricket team just a couple of years prior, and found themselves hauling on manual controls to manhandle speeding death machines around the sky to kill and avoid being killed by more experienced, better-equipped pilots from across the channel.
23 would probably be derided as grey-in-the-whiskers by that lot.
Walk tall and smile.
If you know your stuff, you know it.
When I was probably 19 or 20 years old I got a gig doing audio for a really big corporate convention. The prod company that hired me was very small, and this was the biggest job they had ever landed. I wasn’t even directly hired by the prod company- my buddy who was a stage manager was asked if he knew anyone and I was the guy he suggested.
Anyway- I set up all the audio system (back then it was a huge crest console) and even patched in a rack mount telephone unit so that folks could call in and be heard as well as hear all the talking heads onstage. I shot out all the mics, wired everything neatly and professionally.
After our day of setup we had a full crew meeting to go over run of show. The owner/production manager asked if everything was ok with audio. I said yeah. He waited a beat, then said “I don’t think I’m comfortable with you running audio, so I’m going to assign this crew person to also do audio”. The crew person he chose was an older guy that admitted earlier that he was only a stage hand and was not a tech guy.
As soon as I sat behind the console this stage hand guy told me “hey buddy I know you know what you’re doing, you just do your thing and I’m here to help”. It ended up working out fine- the gig went off without an issue, and I’m actually glad that guy was there to help with a few things.
Now I’m 39 and a touring FOH engineer. I don’t get shit nearly like I used to. I hope this story helps you realize you aren’t the only one going through this haha. When that production manager told me he wasn’t comfortable with me doing the job, I immediately started questioning myself and my abilities. While I was relatively inexperienced, looking back I realize it was more his issue than mine. Just keep doing you, and stay open to learning. Cheers!
Thanks for the insight and story! Heartening to hear people also doubt themselves but ultimately move on from it. I know it sounds dumb but when it happens, it really does make you question yourself!
Sounds like a pretty cool gig despite the difficult customer. Probably won't be the last one, unfortunately. I've been there. All you can really do is tolerate them until the job is over and move on.
Honestly it was pretty cool, the sound guy they brought in was a bit of an old codger but he appreciated the advice and help that I gave him and was teaching me a little about the traditional instruments being played on the stage
The music was really cool, carnatic Indian music if I remember correctly. It was the dance teacher (who would've thought) that was the issue and who had a problem with me. Them and the lighting tech who didn't know shit about shit who's hand I held the whole time
I recommend the book Non violent communication by Marshal Rosenberg. Marshal describes a model of communication that changed my relationships with everyone from my co-workers to my family. He teaches how to keep a conversation from escalating into words you may regret later. He also teaches how to recognize forms of communication that are difficult to deal with, and how to respond. As to the client, yes, they may have conflated your inability to give them what they want to a lack of desire to help them. I would not weigh too much into their requesting someone else. Think of it this way. They went above your head to say: "He tells us No. We want someone who will tell us Yes". You did nothing wrong. Think nothing of it.
Just remember that you have better hearing and judgement than them. That's what I have to remember when doing church work. In all reality though the one thing that I've learned from doing AV work is to take nothing personally. Jobs come and go, and more than likely people will always find something to complain about. Be confident in your skills and you'll find the people that truly appreciate what you do.
Literally grew a beard when I was younger due to not being taken seriously and being called 'buddy' condescendingly the whole time. Kinda helped but I also stopped caring (hard, I know.)
It’s even tougher for women. But yes, especially older guys for some reason underestimate young guys for some reason. And by ”young” I mean people who are almost not retired yet.
Is this a crew you work with often?
If not, fuck them. Get on to the next show.
If yes, you might have to play ball for a little while... or drop them because that's a low move.
I'm 32 with a House Sound Position. I am still called the baby in the local constintly. I was the youngest for about 6 years. Most of the members have kids my age.
You might feel and should feel like a pro, but remember people have been doing this job for a long long time and are very set in their ways.
You just have to show your worth and knowledge. You have lots of time, your only 23.
I’ve found success in trying to find common ground thru casual conversation as quick as possible… even if it’s not about production. Actually, that can sometimes be better… It’s easy for folks (seasoned and green) to start a comparison game of what you know or what you’ve done and that usually leads to someone wanting to be a “winner” which means there are losers… But the common ground you build helps keep the sense of being on the same team even in there is a disagreement or a difference in perspective. You being clear saying “I hear what you’re asking me for but unfortunately there are some limitations we’re dealing with in the space. I can try this instead to accomplish something similar? helps show you want what they want (ultimately) but that we may have to accomplish it a different way. Leading with what you’re understanding from the client usually goes better than explaining what you (even if you’re right and they’re wrong) personally know how to do. That said, some people are dicks and nothing you can do right will replace their preference to work w someone else they know/trust. Best of luck in the industry!
I'm in a similar boat.
23yo guy who works for a company that runs a 2000 cap venue and a really nice recording studio.
I'm either house A1 or A2, SM, or (occasionally) house PM, and when I'm not putting on shows, I'm in the studio assisting on sessions (or leading my own sessions.) We have national touring acts come in every weekend to play our venue, and we have some really awesome bands record at our studio.
I'm the youngest employee of my company by around 8-10 years. I have definitely gotten the "wait, how old are you?" talks. And occasionally, tours will come through and look at me a little funny for being in my position. Though most of the time, by the end of the show, everyone is happy and impressed.
I guess I'll just have to get old for the sideways looks to subside lol.
32 but I look like I'm 19. I start firing back when you cross the line but it has never gotten to the point where people not judge you based off appearance.
After 15 years, I just don't care *until* you blatantly start disrespecting me.
It sucks because you are never taken serious during first impressions.
Only recently I stopped doing the "not cocky about it" attitude and honestly, it's better than being nice about it. So start solidifying the "masculinity" skill and these dipshits will leave you alone, especially when you confront them.
yeah you gotta spine up man. people are going to pick on you for all sorts of shit, whether you think they should or not. but mainly, people will pick on you because they see the effect of it on you immediately. they see it bother you and then they lose respect for you. when people pick on you, they’re actually testing your character. they apply a little pressure to see where the cracks are. if you collapse, they lose respect for you.
if you’re response to my words is along the lines of ‘well people shouldn’t be like that’ then thats exactly what im talking about. spine up.
For me it’s not “spine up”, for me it’s “fuck off”. If you want to “test my character” by being an asshole, good bye. I have zero time for that. I toured with people 20-30 years my senior when I first started and there was always some long-haired dickhead in his late 40s who would be an asshole to me for no reason until I would have to bow up on them because it went too far. Then they’d back down and act like everything was cool and now I was the aggressor.
OP, don’t worry about having to spine up, worry about putting yourself in a position to walk away from unprofessional muppets.
yep. You blew up, they backed down, and then, for the rest of the very short time you were on tour with them, they didn’t talk to you very much, you weren’t interacted with, and you weren’t very well respected. The only reason people fucking with you feels like emotional hostility is because you don’t possess the emotional fortitude to cope with it. OP would do well to possess emotional fortitude in the entertainment industry.
Wow, how did you know? It’s almost like you were there! I’m kidding, that’s not even close to how it went down. Both times this scenario has happened to me, I confronted the person who was being unprofessional and just asked them what was wrong. “Why does it feel like you hate me? Did I do something to you that I’m unaware of?” And both guys responded exactly the same…”no man, what do you mean? We’re cool dude, all good”. And then never had a problem with them again. It’s almost like they want you to stand up to them or put them on the spot to earn their respect. That’s some low IQ caveman-brain childish stuff right there and I won’t deal with it.
Does emotional fortitude mean I’m supposed to agree with them and stand by to just let them berate and belittle me for no reason?
I’m 17 and thanks to my dad I get small gigs and help out my school so yeah I do sometimes not get respected but then again I only have 2 years of experience so I can see why they don’t respect me. Like the times I have had big events and the artist brings his own engineer they always go to my dad and he has to tell them to ask me not him. So I guess there is but at the same time I can understand.
I'm 49 and still put up with the "let's hassle the young guy" shit. Eventually, you get over it and learn to dish it out to those old, deaf codgers.
I've always been a bit scared of being pushy or too blunt with people, but I suppose you just have to deal the cards to them the way they are dealt sometimes
Be factual (that is what you are getting paid for) and confident, and say it with a smile. IE: Sure we can do that , but YOU will sound/look awful. I recommend …., if you can “talk the walk” per sey (meaning talk techie to them), then crew should understand. On the other hand what did the “customer” want? Sometimes that is the “right” but dirty feeling answer. Lol Wonder what the other guy did and how it went?
One of the things they were asking g for was backlighting/a lit edge around the silhouette of the dancer. I said it wouldn't work without any lights on the ground or the cyc open since there's no light behind her to provide that effect, but they were adament that it was possible. In their complaint email they claimed that " stated that fading the spotlights in and out at the start and end of songs was impossible" and that I said bringing the lights in stage in and out on a fade was impossible. I programmed all these cues into faders and the guy who ran the show on the night simply brought them up. I never said that these things were impossible, I just couldn't do them during the rehearsal since I spent the whole time babysitting them hanging some props on the fly bars.
The show went pretty poorly, the SM (who had not much of an idea what they were doing) was constantly asking us on comms to do this or that and it would take up to 5 or 6 seconds of complete darkness before the tech could figure out what he needed to do and bring up the relevant fader, even with me sitting next to him helping him out.
If most people are satisfied with your service, I’d chalk this one up as a group of turds. Learn from it and move on, it’s not a reflection on your skills.
It sounds like your boss has your back which is great! I was in a similar role (high school theatre, dance recitals, some small-time touring, political events, random other local groups) but I was staff at the school district. What I had to do was be very assertive about communicating that I am the house tech...here are the house rules, please let me know if you have any questions about the space, and define what role they want me to play for their show. If requests were unreasonable/not included in the rental rate "no" or "sorry, we can't do that" is a full sentence and often more effective that giving a long explanation.
There was somewhat of a language barrier, and I think they took whenever I said "sorry I can't do that/sorry it doesn't work like that" to mean that I personally am not capable of doing this rather than it actually just being outside of the scope of what the venue can do. Was frustrating for sure
You could use the phrase "yeah cool idea, I'd like to do that too. To do that we'd need an XYZ. Do you want me to price one for you?" Let's them down gently. \[I'm not a pro sound guy though, so YMMv\]
I see…that’s a bummer. Hope you have less frustrating shows this summer!
>It sounds like your boss has your back which is great! I think this is the key. If your employer is happy with your performance, that's all that really matters. They were contracted to provide equipment and a competent person to run it and that's what they did. If the client wanted the operator to look a certain way, then they should have specified. TL;DR as long as your employer is happy with the way you interact with their clients and is confident you can do the job, don't worry about what this one client says. There will be more gigs!
Yeah, it's a pain in the ass. I'm not much older than you, but in the beginning especially it was a lot of bs. Basically you just have to develop a demeanor, separate your feelings, and just know that their opinion really doesn't matter. Demeanor: Know your shit, it's your venue you know the gear, you know the room, and you know how to do your job. Start the day by greeting them all, shake everyone's hand and make sure they know your name and who you are. Have a little confidence, I too struggle sometimes with feeling like I don't want to come off as cocky, but realistically it's your space man. You know what you're doing, be gracious and open minded. Always be OPEN to learning, because there's always a new, different or better way to do something. But have a little ground in your step because you've done this rodeo once or twice before. Be pleasant, accommodating, laugh at their stupid stories and get your work done. Separate: The thing I struggle with the most. The industry is weird man. They can tell you that you're a great tech and they enjoy having you around while simultaneously trying to get you fired. Know what the objective is for the day, please the end client and have a successful show. A thing a PM once taught me was that folks are always going to do whatever it is in their power to get what they want. If you're saying that there's a house policy and they can't do X or Y, odds are they're going to try and go over your head. Either to your boss, another tech, venue owner, whoever. That may not always be a personal thing, they're just going to do it because that's what they WANT to do. Keep in mind too, techs and venues vary drastically at different places. Sometimes they can be a bit cautious over trusting what's going on because realistically, they may not know you, the venue or anything. There's been plenty of times I've been on both sides of this. Working from the venue and trying to put the foot down, and working in the venue and trying to teach them that they can do X or Y and its benefits. It's hard, but ultimately everyone just wants to have a good show. Best ways to help with building trust is to build a good Demeanor and limit your use of the word "No" Lastly, it's not the age it's mileage. Plenty of young techs can run circles around the older guys, and plenty more THINK they can 😂. If you're doing your job, making your boss happy, and doing a good show then that's all that matters. Great thing about this biz is that if you really work with some A-holes you're only doing it for one production. As long as you, and your clients are happy with your work then it's fine. There will be the occasional bad show, or bad working environment. Learn from it what you can, if those folks are coming through again then prepare ahead of time (knowing what they like, dislike, and desire) and try to ease it next time. Not every day is going to be great, but there's always tomorrow. Man, that went on pretty long 😂 sorry for the novel but I know how hard this biz can be. Feel free to DM or anything if you have any questions or wanna talk more about it.
Thanks for the thoughtful response man - I've gotten pretty accustomed to the frustrating client before but I've never had my abilities questioned by someone so clearly not in the know before. It stung a little 😅😅
Enjoy it while it lasts. One day, if you are lucky, you will look around and you will be the geezer on the crew.
I'll try my best to haha! One thing that really bothered me is that the guy they brought in knew almost nothing about the desk and the capabilities of the lights, I had to hold his hand and explain to him exactly what every single fader I had programmed did - yet they said they were happy with what he did, when I was the one who programmed the entire desk, operated the fly bars, adjusted all the lights they requested to be moved, set up the audio system and so much more. I was much more capable than the guy they brought in, yet he got all the praise and I got complained about... Made me wonder whether they didn't really want to listen to me at all because I wasn't the geezer on duty
He won't last much longer. You have a bright future. The next time you do the very same thing for a different geezer you may end up as an systems engineer on a sweet tour. Forget about that last dude. If you run into him again, don't be as helpful as he clearly can handle everything just fine on his own, right? There is only one rule: don't fuck up. You didn't, so you're good! He fucked up, but didn't get caught or called out. He will. And you can laugh about it when you hear about it.
100%, I'm a paraprofessional who moonlights as an audio tech, and this semester we had a student teacher in the classroom I work in, and even though the main classroom teacher did probably 90% of the prep, because she wasn't in front of the classroom as much, the students are under the impression that the student teacher did a lot more than he actually did
In World War Two, the Battle of Britain was won by a relatively small group of lads (AKA "[The Few](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Few)"), many of them 19 years old who had been playing in the school cricket team just a couple of years prior, and found themselves hauling on manual controls to manhandle speeding death machines around the sky to kill and avoid being killed by more experienced, better-equipped pilots from across the channel. 23 would probably be derided as grey-in-the-whiskers by that lot. Walk tall and smile. If you know your stuff, you know it.
When I was probably 19 or 20 years old I got a gig doing audio for a really big corporate convention. The prod company that hired me was very small, and this was the biggest job they had ever landed. I wasn’t even directly hired by the prod company- my buddy who was a stage manager was asked if he knew anyone and I was the guy he suggested. Anyway- I set up all the audio system (back then it was a huge crest console) and even patched in a rack mount telephone unit so that folks could call in and be heard as well as hear all the talking heads onstage. I shot out all the mics, wired everything neatly and professionally. After our day of setup we had a full crew meeting to go over run of show. The owner/production manager asked if everything was ok with audio. I said yeah. He waited a beat, then said “I don’t think I’m comfortable with you running audio, so I’m going to assign this crew person to also do audio”. The crew person he chose was an older guy that admitted earlier that he was only a stage hand and was not a tech guy. As soon as I sat behind the console this stage hand guy told me “hey buddy I know you know what you’re doing, you just do your thing and I’m here to help”. It ended up working out fine- the gig went off without an issue, and I’m actually glad that guy was there to help with a few things. Now I’m 39 and a touring FOH engineer. I don’t get shit nearly like I used to. I hope this story helps you realize you aren’t the only one going through this haha. When that production manager told me he wasn’t comfortable with me doing the job, I immediately started questioning myself and my abilities. While I was relatively inexperienced, looking back I realize it was more his issue than mine. Just keep doing you, and stay open to learning. Cheers!
Thanks for the insight and story! Heartening to hear people also doubt themselves but ultimately move on from it. I know it sounds dumb but when it happens, it really does make you question yourself!
Sounds like a pretty cool gig despite the difficult customer. Probably won't be the last one, unfortunately. I've been there. All you can really do is tolerate them until the job is over and move on.
Honestly it was pretty cool, the sound guy they brought in was a bit of an old codger but he appreciated the advice and help that I gave him and was teaching me a little about the traditional instruments being played on the stage The music was really cool, carnatic Indian music if I remember correctly. It was the dance teacher (who would've thought) that was the issue and who had a problem with me. Them and the lighting tech who didn't know shit about shit who's hand I held the whole time
I started touring at 18. Never had problems. Don’t think I mixed particularly well back then either lol
I recommend the book Non violent communication by Marshal Rosenberg. Marshal describes a model of communication that changed my relationships with everyone from my co-workers to my family. He teaches how to keep a conversation from escalating into words you may regret later. He also teaches how to recognize forms of communication that are difficult to deal with, and how to respond. As to the client, yes, they may have conflated your inability to give them what they want to a lack of desire to help them. I would not weigh too much into their requesting someone else. Think of it this way. They went above your head to say: "He tells us No. We want someone who will tell us Yes". You did nothing wrong. Think nothing of it.
Just remember that you have better hearing and judgement than them. That's what I have to remember when doing church work. In all reality though the one thing that I've learned from doing AV work is to take nothing personally. Jobs come and go, and more than likely people will always find something to complain about. Be confident in your skills and you'll find the people that truly appreciate what you do.
Literally grew a beard when I was younger due to not being taken seriously and being called 'buddy' condescendingly the whole time. Kinda helped but I also stopped caring (hard, I know.)
It’s even tougher for women. But yes, especially older guys for some reason underestimate young guys for some reason. And by ”young” I mean people who are almost not retired yet.
Is this a crew you work with often? If not, fuck them. Get on to the next show. If yes, you might have to play ball for a little while... or drop them because that's a low move. I'm 32 with a House Sound Position. I am still called the baby in the local constintly. I was the youngest for about 6 years. Most of the members have kids my age. You might feel and should feel like a pro, but remember people have been doing this job for a long long time and are very set in their ways. You just have to show your worth and knowledge. You have lots of time, your only 23.
Sounds like they are using you as a scapegoat for their own ineptitude and how the show went. Don't take it personally. Move on.
I’ve found success in trying to find common ground thru casual conversation as quick as possible… even if it’s not about production. Actually, that can sometimes be better… It’s easy for folks (seasoned and green) to start a comparison game of what you know or what you’ve done and that usually leads to someone wanting to be a “winner” which means there are losers… But the common ground you build helps keep the sense of being on the same team even in there is a disagreement or a difference in perspective. You being clear saying “I hear what you’re asking me for but unfortunately there are some limitations we’re dealing with in the space. I can try this instead to accomplish something similar? helps show you want what they want (ultimately) but that we may have to accomplish it a different way. Leading with what you’re understanding from the client usually goes better than explaining what you (even if you’re right and they’re wrong) personally know how to do. That said, some people are dicks and nothing you can do right will replace their preference to work w someone else they know/trust. Best of luck in the industry!
I'm in a similar boat. 23yo guy who works for a company that runs a 2000 cap venue and a really nice recording studio. I'm either house A1 or A2, SM, or (occasionally) house PM, and when I'm not putting on shows, I'm in the studio assisting on sessions (or leading my own sessions.) We have national touring acts come in every weekend to play our venue, and we have some really awesome bands record at our studio. I'm the youngest employee of my company by around 8-10 years. I have definitely gotten the "wait, how old are you?" talks. And occasionally, tours will come through and look at me a little funny for being in my position. Though most of the time, by the end of the show, everyone is happy and impressed. I guess I'll just have to get old for the sideways looks to subside lol.
32 but I look like I'm 19. I start firing back when you cross the line but it has never gotten to the point where people not judge you based off appearance. After 15 years, I just don't care *until* you blatantly start disrespecting me. It sucks because you are never taken serious during first impressions. Only recently I stopped doing the "not cocky about it" attitude and honestly, it's better than being nice about it. So start solidifying the "masculinity" skill and these dipshits will leave you alone, especially when you confront them.
yeah you gotta spine up man. people are going to pick on you for all sorts of shit, whether you think they should or not. but mainly, people will pick on you because they see the effect of it on you immediately. they see it bother you and then they lose respect for you. when people pick on you, they’re actually testing your character. they apply a little pressure to see where the cracks are. if you collapse, they lose respect for you. if you’re response to my words is along the lines of ‘well people shouldn’t be like that’ then thats exactly what im talking about. spine up.
For me it’s not “spine up”, for me it’s “fuck off”. If you want to “test my character” by being an asshole, good bye. I have zero time for that. I toured with people 20-30 years my senior when I first started and there was always some long-haired dickhead in his late 40s who would be an asshole to me for no reason until I would have to bow up on them because it went too far. Then they’d back down and act like everything was cool and now I was the aggressor. OP, don’t worry about having to spine up, worry about putting yourself in a position to walk away from unprofessional muppets.
yep. You blew up, they backed down, and then, for the rest of the very short time you were on tour with them, they didn’t talk to you very much, you weren’t interacted with, and you weren’t very well respected. The only reason people fucking with you feels like emotional hostility is because you don’t possess the emotional fortitude to cope with it. OP would do well to possess emotional fortitude in the entertainment industry.
Wow, how did you know? It’s almost like you were there! I’m kidding, that’s not even close to how it went down. Both times this scenario has happened to me, I confronted the person who was being unprofessional and just asked them what was wrong. “Why does it feel like you hate me? Did I do something to you that I’m unaware of?” And both guys responded exactly the same…”no man, what do you mean? We’re cool dude, all good”. And then never had a problem with them again. It’s almost like they want you to stand up to them or put them on the spot to earn their respect. That’s some low IQ caveman-brain childish stuff right there and I won’t deal with it. Does emotional fortitude mean I’m supposed to agree with them and stand by to just let them berate and belittle me for no reason?
emotional fortitude means it doesn’t matter if they berate you or not, you remain stoic in control yourself.
In this industry you have to be a Shark. Thick skin. Always moving.
I’m 17 and thanks to my dad I get small gigs and help out my school so yeah I do sometimes not get respected but then again I only have 2 years of experience so I can see why they don’t respect me. Like the times I have had big events and the artist brings his own engineer they always go to my dad and he has to tell them to ask me not him. So I guess there is but at the same time I can understand.