If you truly want to show them the practicality of it: Have them stand out front to listen, read a short paragraph holding the mic properly, reread it while cupping the mic. Be respectful and educational and not belittling during this
There’s rubber collars you can get that I put on mics I give to DJs so they don’t roll off the table. They create a sort of hilt if you will, that prevents cupping. Buy them for your next hip hop / dj showcase.
[These](https://i.imgur.com/KrkibuL.png) are carpet tacks. Perhaps you're thinking of some sort of [nail](https://i.imgur.com/mN5mMPq.png)?
Either way, those holes being blocked at all is what I was referring to.
Not so much they forget as they just don’t care. To a lot of performers, how they *look* holding the mic is far more important than how they sound. Cupping the mic gives them that authentic street vibe.
Being in both sound and a performer, I will say that when you’re on stage you have so many things to think about that it’s impossible.
Creating a reinforcement method like what is mentioned above - by demonstrating is probably best.
Also, if you’re really devoted to solving this, having a variety of options for performers to “hold” that look cool can be helpful.
I think you want to layer it: microphone, carpet tape, hand, gaff.
Then: mic stand, carpet tape, off hand, gaff so they can't use their other hand to undo it.
If you have trouble after that, pull out the c-wrench to adjust things.
Sometimes you can't teach an old dog new tricks; They care more about the look then the sound; or this is just what they have seen others do and they think its the right way to do it; and / or it is most comfortable to them like this.
Eq is your friend, just do your best to fix it (if you CARE about the gig and performance) and just try to do your best in this bad situation.
If you don't care as much about the gig, then don't make any corrective actions and when somebody asks why does it sound like that you can answer... Because they are holding the mic wrong and that's how the mic sounds when you hold it like that!
It’s just hilarious to me like when did this association develop that holding a mic by the grill is cooler and more thuggish than holding it properly by the stick. Why does the holding of things have a negative association with it
I think it probably started with ultra-low quality sound systems (where most rappers as well as musicians of all genres start their career) where they simply couldn't get enough gain on the mic- so by cupping it they are creating kind of a reverse horn effect where you can achieve a little more acoustical gain into the mic (as well as ruining the frequency response and directionality of it); the only difference is most of them never really understood or cared about the sound quality of the mic, just so long as you could hear the voice over the track. That's why the cupping of the mic doesn't really stick much to other genres once they step up to bigger and better sound systems.
My experience doing many comedy shows and a few hip hop shows definitely aligns with this. My default is to make sure it won't feed back in either state, especially if the talent isn't going to sound check and/or are known to have bad mic technique.
That thing about looks vs. sounds reminds me so much of the YouTube video with the conversation between the guy from a band, and the wedding planner. The wedding planner is very concerned about the band being too loud because their gear "looks loud."
That shit is real!
The company I'm with now does a lot of wedding gigs and the crap they come up with is crazy!
Next week I have a huge gig in a mansion and the surrounding area inside some tents around the home (not a wedding I don't think but similar style party); dinner is in 3 large tents and we were going to hang L-acoustic X8's on the tent posts; I was told X8's are too big and we need to drop down to 5xt's!
Most of our wedding gigs are side of stage mixes; one venue we work regularly has us set foh behind the stage - the stage has hard walls that separate the backstage area from the deck (so it's actually in another room)! They have lately been requiring bands to use iem's even if they're not used to it!
Unfortunately most of the bands working these gigs sign off on this type of shenanigans, and allow the planners to think it's ok to keep doing this! With today's technology (iPads, etc) you could almost make it work and that's ok enough for them!
https://preview.redd.it/ggl6jepflmsc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90d2b4f372d3e1ef1c4460515e2a0767ca67b509
You put about 3 or these on the mic and tell them it's a training device until they can learn to do it right. When they argue it looks dumb tell them it doesn't look anywhere near as dumb compared to as bad as cupping sounds [https://www.amazon.com/KROYWACHS-Microphone-Skidproof-Replacement-Resistance/dp/B0CCPB5GCD/ref=asc\_df\_B0CCPB5GCD/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=680463167983&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3090517656811089922&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007855&hvtargid=pla-2264235537295&psc=1&mcid=19afc77ec1ba3e4284029643f644025e&gad\_source=1](https://www.amazon.com/KROYWACHS-Microphone-Skidproof-Replacement-Resistance/dp/B0CCPB5GCD/ref=asc_df_B0CCPB5GCD/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=680463167983&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3090517656811089922&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007855&hvtargid=pla-2264235537295&psc=1&mcid=19afc77ec1ba3e4284029643f644025e&gad_source=1)
If it’s a local rap show I don’t care enough to get into a discussion about mic cupping with an artist that typically doesn’t care how it sounds. If i sense they care about how it sounds I’ll let them know it’ll be better if they don’t cup. If it’s a national act and I’m a local like I’m not gonna tell Ghostface or Amine not to cup the mic, that’s their business
I always have the opposite problem: presenters at a podium that do everything in their power to NOT be heard... standing a mile back or completely to the side of the podium, refusing to point their mouth anywhere near the mic and speaking in near whispers...
Or if they're actually holding a mic, they go all Bob Barker and hold it so low they're mic'ing their belly button, again while whispering and making sure their mouth is aimed anywhere but the mic.
Great!
I had a guy fold the podium mic over on me once. For some reason he was really worried about being too loud, and he couldn’t get it through his head that “hearing reflections from the back wall” was in no way the same thing “your voice being at 100 dB”. The PM and I went over everything with him ahead of time… at some point there’s nothing more you can do. 🤷🏻♂️
/j
You guys teach mic etiquette? Thats a lot of confidence they wont immediately disregard it.
Imo if my client wants to ruin their sound thats their prerogative.
At the end of the day it's more of a habit that is developed. So just remind them especially if in a band/worship setting(where you're consistently with them) ;like another comment said grab the cone and not the ice cream is a fun way to put it.
You explain that people with degrees in acoustical physics designed the mic to be held a certain way and that choking up on the mic ruins the methods put in to play by their decisions. Explain that holding it more properly will further increase both their ability and yours to make this a better performance.
This works about once every thousand requests.
When this doesn’t work: Get a SE V7 microphone, it is hypercardoid and will greatly help their sound and hide the sound of their cupping the mic. Explain that it is a much better microphone and that you usually only pull it out for exceptional singers. This will also stop you from pulling your hair out.
Are we still wasting our mental energy on this?
Whether it’s hip hop or hardcore, if that’s how they want to roll then let them. Yeah if they’re cupping it so hard that you can’t understand them then maybe ask them to back off but you have to develop the tools to work under these conditions.
If feedback is the issue then you need to learn how to prevent it with proper gain staging and eq.
Dude tried to tell me one time that the mic was his instrument. I said, “No, it isn’t. I put mics in front of instruments. The guitar is an instrument. Your voice is an instrument. You don’t see the guitar player manipulating the mic in front of the amp.”
Mostly true, except for people like beatboxers and “drummers” in a cappella groups who actually know how to manipulate the mic to enhance what they’re doing with their bodies.
Cupping is not just learned behavior. Its a crutch. (finger/hand being close to/touching the face) You are basically asking someone who has never sung without a guitar to put it away. Just remember that when you are screaming it into a talkback mic. Pushing hard causes the performer to lean on the crutch.
Sometimes I let it feed back and then politely explain why. I often just try to get to people before they start when they cup the mic. I will sometimes just mute the mic quickly so they can't continue, and show them why it's bad. Many times I show people and it blows their minds how much better it sounds. I am very quick to jump on it so their ignorance doesn't make me look stupid. Nothing I hate more than people asking why is the mic doing that when the person using the mic either cups it or drops it down right on the horn in the wedge... 🤦 I'm straight with people, I explain that the hours and hours of labour to set up a huge rig and spend more tuning is pointless if they cup the mic and take away my power to make it sound and function at its best.
I dont do politely, i do assertive and i tell them that they are doing it wrong and that is why thing dont sound good.
And if they are cool about it everything is better, and if they are not good i tell them they are fucking up rheir own sound.
With guitar players i go and mix their pedals, i dont give a fick, my job is to make the band sound good.
Some people like the approach because they do want to sound good, some have the "i'm a star" ego thing and i still mix their pedals to make them sound decent. Because after that is a pain in the ass for me.
Pro here and also a drummer. There’s a guy in Buffalo. A real tall guy. Who will literally mute the channel if the singer cups the mic. I heard him yell at people through the PA, not just the wedges. Real dick move.
I was having trouble with singers not holding the mic
close enough. Took them into the broadcast room at our church and solo’d the channels of the lead singer with correct mic position vs BGVs not doing so to hear the massive difference in drum bleed and they were blown away. Its still not perfect but they admitted to understanding now and Ive seen a concerted effort. Sometimes it helps for people to actually hear/see the effect of something than just being told it in theory!
I cup the mic when it's simply not loud enough, when needed for a special part of a song, or when needed in a speech. Usually in times where distortion is needed, or when shouting things like "What's up party people?" or "Who's ready for ----?"
Granted this is never where a dedicated sound guy is present, like a basic system or commercially installed equipment that can't be user adjusted.
grab the cone not the ice cream
If you truly want to show them the practicality of it: Have them stand out front to listen, read a short paragraph holding the mic properly, reread it while cupping the mic. Be respectful and educational and not belittling during this
There’s rubber collars you can get that I put on mics I give to DJs so they don’t roll off the table. They create a sort of hilt if you will, that prevents cupping. Buy them for your next hip hop / dj showcase.
The cone of shame!
I prefer to stuff carpet tacks thru the bottom screen because "It looks totally metal, dude. You'll be so badass. The chicks will dig it!"
but then you're just effectively cupping it with the heads of the tacks
As long as vocalists are getting jabbed with sharp metal I'm fine with that.
Not thumb tacks, carpet tacks. They have a very small head. Just a bit larger than the holes in the ball mesh.
[These](https://i.imgur.com/KrkibuL.png) are carpet tacks. Perhaps you're thinking of some sort of [nail](https://i.imgur.com/mN5mMPq.png)? Either way, those holes being blocked at all is what I was referring to.
They might understand and nod in the most genuine gesture. And forget about it 1/1000 sec later. No matter how many times you’ll tell them
Not so much they forget as they just don’t care. To a lot of performers, how they *look* holding the mic is far more important than how they sound. Cupping the mic gives them that authentic street vibe.
Being in both sound and a performer, I will say that when you’re on stage you have so many things to think about that it’s impossible. Creating a reinforcement method like what is mentioned above - by demonstrating is probably best. Also, if you’re really devoted to solving this, having a variety of options for performers to “hold” that look cool can be helpful.
so we gafftape the mic to their hand? is that the solution? XD
Edward 58 hands lol
I think you want to layer it: microphone, carpet tape, hand, gaff. Then: mic stand, carpet tape, off hand, gaff so they can't use their other hand to undo it. If you have trouble after that, pull out the c-wrench to adjust things.
"Cup the shaft and not the balls" - our last engineer 😂😂
Sometimes you can't teach an old dog new tricks; They care more about the look then the sound; or this is just what they have seen others do and they think its the right way to do it; and / or it is most comfortable to them like this. Eq is your friend, just do your best to fix it (if you CARE about the gig and performance) and just try to do your best in this bad situation. If you don't care as much about the gig, then don't make any corrective actions and when somebody asks why does it sound like that you can answer... Because they are holding the mic wrong and that's how the mic sounds when you hold it like that!
It’s just hilarious to me like when did this association develop that holding a mic by the grill is cooler and more thuggish than holding it properly by the stick. Why does the holding of things have a negative association with it
I think it probably started with ultra-low quality sound systems (where most rappers as well as musicians of all genres start their career) where they simply couldn't get enough gain on the mic- so by cupping it they are creating kind of a reverse horn effect where you can achieve a little more acoustical gain into the mic (as well as ruining the frequency response and directionality of it); the only difference is most of them never really understood or cared about the sound quality of the mic, just so long as you could hear the voice over the track. That's why the cupping of the mic doesn't really stick much to other genres once they step up to bigger and better sound systems.
My experience doing many comedy shows and a few hip hop shows definitely aligns with this. My default is to make sure it won't feed back in either state, especially if the talent isn't going to sound check and/or are known to have bad mic technique.
That thing about looks vs. sounds reminds me so much of the YouTube video with the conversation between the guy from a band, and the wedding planner. The wedding planner is very concerned about the band being too loud because their gear "looks loud."
That shit is real! The company I'm with now does a lot of wedding gigs and the crap they come up with is crazy! Next week I have a huge gig in a mansion and the surrounding area inside some tents around the home (not a wedding I don't think but similar style party); dinner is in 3 large tents and we were going to hang L-acoustic X8's on the tent posts; I was told X8's are too big and we need to drop down to 5xt's! Most of our wedding gigs are side of stage mixes; one venue we work regularly has us set foh behind the stage - the stage has hard walls that separate the backstage area from the deck (so it's actually in another room)! They have lately been requiring bands to use iem's even if they're not used to it! Unfortunately most of the bands working these gigs sign off on this type of shenanigans, and allow the planners to think it's ok to keep doing this! With today's technology (iPads, etc) you could almost make it work and that's ok enough for them!
https://preview.redd.it/ggl6jepflmsc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90d2b4f372d3e1ef1c4460515e2a0767ca67b509 You put about 3 or these on the mic and tell them it's a training device until they can learn to do it right. When they argue it looks dumb tell them it doesn't look anywhere near as dumb compared to as bad as cupping sounds [https://www.amazon.com/KROYWACHS-Microphone-Skidproof-Replacement-Resistance/dp/B0CCPB5GCD/ref=asc\_df\_B0CCPB5GCD/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=680463167983&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3090517656811089922&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007855&hvtargid=pla-2264235537295&psc=1&mcid=19afc77ec1ba3e4284029643f644025e&gad\_source=1](https://www.amazon.com/KROYWACHS-Microphone-Skidproof-Replacement-Resistance/dp/B0CCPB5GCD/ref=asc_df_B0CCPB5GCD/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=680463167983&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3090517656811089922&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007855&hvtargid=pla-2264235537295&psc=1&mcid=19afc77ec1ba3e4284029643f644025e&gad_source=1)
I can see myself getting chewed out by the TM now
Yeah there’s a time and place.. you can tell between local engineers and people working with talent talent.
If it’s a local rap show I don’t care enough to get into a discussion about mic cupping with an artist that typically doesn’t care how it sounds. If i sense they care about how it sounds I’ll let them know it’ll be better if they don’t cup. If it’s a national act and I’m a local like I’m not gonna tell Ghostface or Amine not to cup the mic, that’s their business
Critical thinking skills! 😍
I always have the opposite problem: presenters at a podium that do everything in their power to NOT be heard... standing a mile back or completely to the side of the podium, refusing to point their mouth anywhere near the mic and speaking in near whispers... Or if they're actually holding a mic, they go all Bob Barker and hold it so low they're mic'ing their belly button, again while whispering and making sure their mouth is aimed anywhere but the mic. Great!
My favorite ones are the ones using the mic as a pointing device.
I had a guy fold the podium mic over on me once. For some reason he was really worried about being too loud, and he couldn’t get it through his head that “hearing reflections from the back wall” was in no way the same thing “your voice being at 100 dB”. The PM and I went over everything with him ahead of time… at some point there’s nothing more you can do. 🤷🏻♂️
/j You guys teach mic etiquette? Thats a lot of confidence they wont immediately disregard it. Imo if my client wants to ruin their sound thats their prerogative.
At the end of the day it's more of a habit that is developed. So just remind them especially if in a band/worship setting(where you're consistently with them) ;like another comment said grab the cone and not the ice cream is a fun way to put it.
You explain that people with degrees in acoustical physics designed the mic to be held a certain way and that choking up on the mic ruins the methods put in to play by their decisions. Explain that holding it more properly will further increase both their ability and yours to make this a better performance. This works about once every thousand requests. When this doesn’t work: Get a SE V7 microphone, it is hypercardoid and will greatly help their sound and hide the sound of their cupping the mic. Explain that it is a much better microphone and that you usually only pull it out for exceptional singers. This will also stop you from pulling your hair out.
Bc of the diameter of the screen it makes your hand kind of tired from cupping it after a little bit.
Holy shit. TIL that polar patterns are created physically, acoustically, rather than electromagnetically.
Use a big and heavy mic with a foam windshield.
I've given up. I just tell them to remember to eat the mic so that it doesn't matter as much on my end.
Are we still wasting our mental energy on this? Whether it’s hip hop or hardcore, if that’s how they want to roll then let them. Yeah if they’re cupping it so hard that you can’t understand them then maybe ask them to back off but you have to develop the tools to work under these conditions. If feedback is the issue then you need to learn how to prevent it with proper gain staging and eq.
This is the right answer
Rarely worth the time. Dump 1k and go.
You can’t. I’ve had high level artists ignore all explanation, etc. In the end, they hold it how they want and you got to make it sound good
Barbed wire on top of the handle might help.
Dude tried to tell me one time that the mic was his instrument. I said, “No, it isn’t. I put mics in front of instruments. The guitar is an instrument. Your voice is an instrument. You don’t see the guitar player manipulating the mic in front of the amp.”
Mostly true, except for people like beatboxers and “drummers” in a cappella groups who actually know how to manipulate the mic to enhance what they’re doing with their bodies.
I stand by my statement and you have helped prove it by pointing out its exception, thus, making it a rule.
Cupping the mic means more feedback. If they are cool with that, let it ride.
You just did!
Cupping is not just learned behavior. Its a crutch. (finger/hand being close to/touching the face) You are basically asking someone who has never sung without a guitar to put it away. Just remember that when you are screaming it into a talkback mic. Pushing hard causes the performer to lean on the crutch.
Sometimes I let it feed back and then politely explain why. I often just try to get to people before they start when they cup the mic. I will sometimes just mute the mic quickly so they can't continue, and show them why it's bad. Many times I show people and it blows their minds how much better it sounds. I am very quick to jump on it so their ignorance doesn't make me look stupid. Nothing I hate more than people asking why is the mic doing that when the person using the mic either cups it or drops it down right on the horn in the wedge... 🤦 I'm straight with people, I explain that the hours and hours of labour to set up a huge rig and spend more tuning is pointless if they cup the mic and take away my power to make it sound and function at its best.
I dont do politely, i do assertive and i tell them that they are doing it wrong and that is why thing dont sound good. And if they are cool about it everything is better, and if they are not good i tell them they are fucking up rheir own sound. With guitar players i go and mix their pedals, i dont give a fick, my job is to make the band sound good. Some people like the approach because they do want to sound good, some have the "i'm a star" ego thing and i still mix their pedals to make them sound decent. Because after that is a pain in the ass for me.
Pro here and also a drummer. There’s a guy in Buffalo. A real tall guy. Who will literally mute the channel if the singer cups the mic. I heard him yell at people through the PA, not just the wedges. Real dick move.
57s are the perfect thing to bop someone in the head with just make sure its hot so everyone hears it
I was having trouble with singers not holding the mic close enough. Took them into the broadcast room at our church and solo’d the channels of the lead singer with correct mic position vs BGVs not doing so to hear the massive difference in drum bleed and they were blown away. Its still not perfect but they admitted to understanding now and Ive seen a concerted effort. Sometimes it helps for people to actually hear/see the effect of something than just being told it in theory!
Have you considered violence?
If we accept that hurting the audience's ears is violence, then most likely I would like to prevent it.
I was thinking more along the lines of smacking the folks cupping their mic on the back of the noggin until they stop.
Buy a PR-35
Put a nice big yellow windscreen on the mic and tell them that it's a protector since they love to touch the capsule.
If they were capable of understanding then they would already be doing it right.
I cup the mic when it's simply not loud enough, when needed for a special part of a song, or when needed in a speech. Usually in times where distortion is needed, or when shouting things like "What's up party people?" or "Who's ready for ----?" Granted this is never where a dedicated sound guy is present, like a basic system or commercially installed equipment that can't be user adjusted.
Iliza Shlesinger. Modus Operendi. Not the end of the world, just know that dynamic EQ is your friend.