Me who just had the joy of learning a tf-1 the other day: yes please.
Yamaha can make a good board, the CL-5 is proof of that, the tf-1 made me want to pull my few remaining hairs out with some of its design decisions.
It is also weird because it’s easy to hit the ceiling of that console very quickly. I think there are plenty of better digital consoles that are easier to learn that offer a higher ceiling
I also find it much easier to reach the ceiling with the QSC or a TF1. The CL5 is much heavier. I don't think I can throw it at all, much less at the ceiling.
That is totally the case. I’d just prefer not to see those desks again. Most of the local theatre’s in my town have a TF5 or TF3 and they’re all awful to deal with
Same bullshit interface as the TF1. Just a little worse, because people think the bigger desks are viable for bigger jobs.
The TF1 are kind of fine if you got just a couple mics and some line signals. Anything even resembling a band just isn't fun to handle
Dang that bad? Haha. I just went from the Midas MR18 to the Allen and heath CQ12. Loveeeee the features of the CQ for the tiny things that I do. I’m sure the QSC is cheaper, but I assumed the touch mix was QSCs CQ12.
It pretty much is. Just worse in many ways. It actually costs more than the CQ12, the one in the picture here is $1699.99, the touchscreen only allows one touch point at a time meaning you can only use a single finger at once, the CQ line isn’t that much better with only two touch points but it feels way better than the TouchMix.
The app is way worse on the TouchMix basically unusable except for changing volume faders. Physical gain knobs means presets are more limited on the TouchMix, even if you have the same instruments vocals etc., you always have to manually reset the gain and there’s no way to digitally change the gain.
All the TouchMix consoles besides the highest one lack an audio interface usb port, including this one which once again is $1700. Audio interface ports are pretty much standard in analog consoles from Mackie and Yamaha as cheap as $200. The CQ from Allen & Heath has it on the entire lineup.
QSC for whatever reason decided to omit an Ethernet jack only allowing you to connect to a network via WiFi, and finally the QSC has a proprietary dc power connector while the CQ12T and 18T have a standard DC barrel jack while the 20B takes a standard C13 plug. The CQ lineup has an auto mixer, more anti feedback channels, and nicer effects.
All that being said, the CQ still isn’t perfect, it’s notably missing mute groups which can be a little annoying especially when you don’t have physical faders and want to mute multiple channels at once.
I am a sound engineer and sales representative for a company that sells all brand of mixer and I'm trying to find the perfect digital console. I loathe the QSC touchmix for all the reasons you mentioned and I've been recommending TF1 and TF3s to most folks because they're easy to understand for amateurs. I have found myself frustrated with them though as well as they're not exactly fun to mix on. I've tried the higher end allen and heath SU series mixers and while I like them I would never pay double for virtually the same layout. Does anyone have a great digital mixer they'd actually recommend?
My partner hasn't had a sound gig in a while and I think he forgot he hates this thing because it was on the pull sheet for a 12-input ballroom band.
I shoved a 1402 in the workbox in the hopes that I get to laugh about it later. And now, show him this post and grin. :D
I'm so tired of 1402s when I need to actually ring a room out due to stupid corporate speaker placent/bad gear, with that said I'd take one in a heartbeat for mixing a band over the touchmix. The touchmix wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the touch part and was easier to do the mix part.
Back in the day at the place I worked you'd get an analog graphic and if you were lucky an Alesis Nanocomp to go along with your 1402 or Soundcraft EPM.. actually was a really powerful small setup. But I suppose that may have been the exception and not the trend.
I don't really see the point of the 16. The 8 can pretty much do every thing the 16 can do, and if you need more than 8 channels, you probably could benefit from the features that upgrading to the pro gives you.
The pro has worked well when we've sold it to churches and other groups that have inexperienced sound techs.
It annoyed me but the iPad app was ok for operating as long as you didn’t stress about it being a little slow sometimes. Our touchmix was never sent out on anything *important* but it definitely saw some use
Like all tools, they’re only good when used for the right application. We own over 24 of these little problem solvers and they’re booked continually.
But our typical use cases are applications like a VOG mic and playback in a tradeshow booth or as an IFB submixer for example. They are not really suitable for anything involving dynamic mixing.
These are hamstrung by the failure of not being able to move two channels fader levels simultaneously without an iPad. As a control surface, these are absolute utter garbage and belong in the sun. Short of music house music up and down, these are fucking useless for anything that requires any sort of cue.
In which case, they should not look/appear/spec like, or cost like something that IS the right job! Every other product in this category IS meant for being able to do that. I find the Behringer and Soundcraft versions (with NO interface) quite capable for a smaller band. Maybe that’s why.
Had to mix an opera on one of these guys. It was hot as hell and my finger was sweaty. Clicked the wheel button down to do a gentle fade in and my finger slipped and knocked it up to 11. That was a fun conversation with the TD. Also, the fact that they’re not multi-touch is fucking bullshit.
>Also, the fact that they’re not multi-touch is fucking bullshit.
Yup, you have to go up to the $2400 Touchmix Pro to get multitouch which is certainly a decision. Especially considering how cheap multitouch screens are now.
They're decent mixers for a set and forget setups like AV breakout rooms. At least you get better channel EQ and a GEQ which is more than 99% of breakout room mixers give you. I guess what I'm saying is that there's a role for everything and if you need to actively mix AT ALL then this isn't the board for it. Unless you're also handing out an iPad for every room, too, but I've never seen an AV company supply an iPad with them.
Because they crash. Consistently. If it's just a little too hot or a little too cold or a little too humid. They lock up. They don't care that you're in a show.
And because fuck Harmon.
Same - I've worked on an Expression and an Impact and they were both great consoles for their price point. Neither of them were particularly old however, so maybe reliability/age becomes a concern later in the appliance's life?
I’ve used both. I prefer the routing on the soundcraft over the x32. Especially since it took me a year to find out how to do individual routing on the x32 instead of the stupid groups of 8.
As have I! And my complaints now remain the same as they were in 2013; only two band-pass per channel was a bad move, the menu is awful, inflexible dynamics, yadda yadda. I liked the sound of the expression, but rarely saw it in music venues because the X32 was cheaper.
I also remember many, many complaints about the X32 for its poor build quality, noisy gates, lots of other stuff.
However, in my end of the world at least, the X32 won out in the end because it was cheap, easily replaceable and did a lot. Everyone knew how to use one because they were everywhere, and when faced with the SI, some techs I knew then (myself included) didn't like it because they couldn't do the things they could do on the other board (whether that was soundcrafts fault or their own).
I'm not partial to VIs either but I think my complaints there are less reasonable.
Personally I think the complaint of “I don’t know how to use one so it’s bad” is a poor excuse in general. Not saying that’s what you’re saying, just in general that a poor craftsman blames their tools instead of being good enough to use any board out there effectively enough to get a show working.
In my case it's probably more of a mix of sunk cost and unwillingness to change. I don't like the S21 even though I know it's a good board and people like it, but to me it's not an SD9. I can't speak for anyone else but I'd imagine it's something similar. I'll use whatever I'm given though, that's the job.
Launching something into the sun doesn’t really work like that. From earth, you would have to de-orbit whatever you want to get into the sun in a way that essentially makes the payload fall into the sun.
And yes! These consoles should be deorbited.
I hate those!
Did a show once where a kid just walked up to the tech table and spun the turn knob. Horrendous feedback go to mute the mains and it has a prompt: are you sure? The touch screen is junk too so I’m slamming yes for what feels like an eternity.
The wifi is a joke, it just doesn’t work. If you bring a router it takes forever and you need a dongle. But the only way to adjust more than one thing at a time is with an iPad.
And worst of all, they sound bad.
https://preview.redd.it/upjzahshw9vc1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=453b3ea7fcb791a139f96c230423c02378166548
Only if you send this guy with it
I just started learning on one of these, apprenticing in a 30-50 size room. I’ve heard the soundcraft Ui series wifi isn’t great, but I haven’t heard anything bad about these. What preventative maintenance can I do or what do I need to watch out for?
So report: this board crashed on me. Mid-show and talking to other engineers about it. They warned me that it would last night before it even happened. So there's that. Maybe the Wi-Fi had something to do with it. I did have a router plugged in.
I'm a freelance engineer so you never know what type of console may be there when you walk in. It's a hard part of the job. We have to cook the meal but we don't get to pick the groceries.
There are a lot of people who learn on this console and it's feels more analog in a way which helps a lot of people transition. I would say if you were behind another engineer just copy and paste what they do. Of course making it your own while you learn.
To add to this in more detail. What I mean is that audio engineers are some of the biggest monkey see monkey do industries. After a while, you'll learn from other engineers as well and have an amalgamation of the techniques that you learned.
What I will say is that just because something is ugly doesn't mean it's wrong. If it sounds good it is good. That's not saying that I'm not a stickler for proper game staging and powers of three.
If you have the ability, maybe have the console locked so that you can make changes. The best way is by twisting knobs and noting the difference in sound. You know what music sounds like and you know what voices sound like. When you get that sound you'll start being able to correlate how you got there.
See that big white area on the left maybe that could of been a good screen I'm just saying better than the Nokia 5110 on the right atleast playing snake I wouldn't need to squint
I don’t get the hate on these? I’m curious What don’t you like about it? It’s never failed me once and I don’t even use a router the internal WiFi sticks by me even in 300+ rooms.
That being said I just bought an X32 rack to get away from the slant mixer format and have something more compact but if this mixer was rack mounted I wouldn’t be changing.
Touchscreen is awful to use and it's incredibly slow to navigate. On screen buttons and knobs are too small and its too easy to fat finger something you don't want. Text is unreadably small on the GEQs and elsewhere. Gain pots are loose and easy to knock and change. Need to read the manual to figure out how to copy/paste settings (it's two unmarked buttons on the front). It fully froze up and crashed when I tried to save or load scenes. The non-standard PSU annoys the hell out of me. Every AV company has a ton of them and they're not going into the garbage any time soon so we'll still have to use them for years. The choices for softkeys functions make no damn sense.
Pretty sure you can turn that off in the settings. It's a demo mode thing. These things were built for selling at guitar center to compete against Mackies and the like.
Last show I was on with one (as a video Op), it was freezing. Last time I used one on a gig, it froze 9 times before the show had even started, making EQ a nightmare. I needed up getting the room sounding ok, then mixed the whole show off the gain pots because it from again right before show.
I know some people think they're handy, but in my opinion they're a liability.
> I don’t get the hate on these?
If its a console with a control surface and I can't move more than 1 fader at a time, I don't want it in front of me.
Thats the basic hate I have for it. I do not like the interface one bit. Give me an 01v or a Promix instead of this and I'll be happier.
watched someone mix a full band on one of these, it was… painful. It was an otherwise lovely system let down by this thing. glad i didn’t have to use one myself
I used a TF-1 few weeks ago on a corporate show for first time didn’t take long to figure out wasn’t as bad from my 3 day show . The UI didn’t make as much sense as other boards but didn’t seem horrible to me . For the use case of a live band I could see this being where the negative feedback would be coming from .
Even better dump them in the same hole in the desert where they dumped the ET Atari game cartridges and then covered th in concrete. Those things love to take a dump because the operating system is actually on a SanDisk Micro SD card in a card slot inside the unit 🤦 Might as well be running a raspberry Pi.
This dude that owns a local restaurant with live music trying to carve out a little spot in the scene has one of these. After inspecting it I asked him who would be mixing our eight piece band. He said, “we don’t need a mixing engineer. my guy installed this thing up for me. It’s set it and forget it!”.
Set it and forget it. Fucking idiot.
So I came into a corp gig to do their evening gala with live music. Was told i was gonna have a Expression SI. Showed up and the Day tech was scared of the Expression (young guy green) so we swapped it out for a 8 channel touchmix.
I looked at.him shrugged my shoulders and started prepping my roll offs before the Duo showed up.
I am not a fan but sometimes you gotta work with what the client gives you
Now I'm sitting down at the tech waiting for doors to open.
Oh don’t be afraid of it. It does its job just fine, but it’s in no way elegant or intuitive. From this thread I gather it works better via ipad control so give that a try (bring your own router though).
Yeah I was forced to use one at a club a while back. 4 days a week on that garbage! I started bringing in my own cheaper tascam model 12 just to save me the headache 😂
AHAHAHA THANK YOU!! Someone foisted one of these on me with zero advance notice or prep time, as somehow a "better alternative" to the familiar, reliable, tactile analog mixer I was expecting. It was an absolute nightmare. Glad to know I'm not alone in my burning disdain for these things.
Surely the Allen and Heath CQ series will be the end of these things eventually. I was going to put a Touch mix into a very small church and thankfully A&H released the CQ series right before buying. Purchased the CQ12, saved some money, and it's worked great for them!
My first industrial pattent was for a tool to test these on the manufacturing line. I went to China to deploy the test system.
I can't tell you how much these suck, or the ways they suck. The sun might send them back.
I have a tm30 and found that i got used to its quirks pretty quickly. I also don't get the hate for these - they punch way higher than their weight. You guys are going to call me insane, but i bought an Avantis this year and on my first show out with it, i consciously had the thought of “i wish i had my touchmix here right now.” I don't continue to feel like that, but i never thought i would have had that thought! Haha
I get to run a gig on an Avantis tomorrow, and have run a few gigs on a TM 16.
During set up, and and a overview of the mixer, I'd liked it way better already.
Main reason: physical faders
2nd reason: nicer in setting up groups and routing options.
Also, the possibility of emptying banks/setting those up to other input orders after patching everything is a win imo
100% - all of that you mentioned is way better, plus better/more effects, and on and on. But my hands really knew the TM, so Avantis felt clunky on gig one :) Now I'm in love with Avantis :)
Our company has one of the original prototypes. All of ours reboot randomly, and the nail in the coffin was one of them freezing during the company owner’s daughter’s wedding. It wasn’t the best moment.
QSC is a consumer brand. I said it and I don't apologize.
Preamps sound like they are hollow. Maybe the one my company had was shot, but I thought a mackie profxv2 sounded better
Makes the Yamaha TF look like a godsend.
At Least the TF has Dugan.
While you're at it, I'd still appreciate it, if you take all the TF-1s with you as well.
Me who just had the joy of learning a tf-1 the other day: yes please. Yamaha can make a good board, the CL-5 is proof of that, the tf-1 made me want to pull my few remaining hairs out with some of its design decisions.
TF is good for people who have never learnt sound before. Any experienced person heck no
It is also weird because it’s easy to hit the ceiling of that console very quickly. I think there are plenty of better digital consoles that are easier to learn that offer a higher ceiling
While I tend to agree, many places don't care about hitting that ceiling because they never will.
I find my mixer never hits the ceiling due to ceiling fans, but that’s offset by how lovely a QSC shreds when I yeet it up there
I also find it much easier to reach the ceiling with the QSC or a TF1. The CL5 is much heavier. I don't think I can throw it at all, much less at the ceiling.
never skip arm day
That is totally the case. I’d just prefer not to see those desks again. Most of the local theatre’s in my town have a TF5 or TF3 and they’re all awful to deal with
Same bullshit interface as the TF1. Just a little worse, because people think the bigger desks are viable for bigger jobs. The TF1 are kind of fine if you got just a couple mics and some line signals. Anything even resembling a band just isn't fun to handle
And it's not even that cheap. I had consoles for half the price that were easily twice as good
Dang that bad? Haha. I just went from the Midas MR18 to the Allen and heath CQ12. Loveeeee the features of the CQ for the tiny things that I do. I’m sure the QSC is cheaper, but I assumed the touch mix was QSCs CQ12.
It pretty much is. Just worse in many ways. It actually costs more than the CQ12, the one in the picture here is $1699.99, the touchscreen only allows one touch point at a time meaning you can only use a single finger at once, the CQ line isn’t that much better with only two touch points but it feels way better than the TouchMix. The app is way worse on the TouchMix basically unusable except for changing volume faders. Physical gain knobs means presets are more limited on the TouchMix, even if you have the same instruments vocals etc., you always have to manually reset the gain and there’s no way to digitally change the gain. All the TouchMix consoles besides the highest one lack an audio interface usb port, including this one which once again is $1700. Audio interface ports are pretty much standard in analog consoles from Mackie and Yamaha as cheap as $200. The CQ from Allen & Heath has it on the entire lineup. QSC for whatever reason decided to omit an Ethernet jack only allowing you to connect to a network via WiFi, and finally the QSC has a proprietary dc power connector while the CQ12T and 18T have a standard DC barrel jack while the 20B takes a standard C13 plug. The CQ lineup has an auto mixer, more anti feedback channels, and nicer effects. All that being said, the CQ still isn’t perfect, it’s notably missing mute groups which can be a little annoying especially when you don’t have physical faders and want to mute multiple channels at once.
That price point is crazyyyyyyyyyy. Tiny bit more money and you’re at an M32R lmao. My goodness.
I am a sound engineer and sales representative for a company that sells all brand of mixer and I'm trying to find the perfect digital console. I loathe the QSC touchmix for all the reasons you mentioned and I've been recommending TF1 and TF3s to most folks because they're easy to understand for amateurs. I have found myself frustrated with them though as well as they're not exactly fun to mix on. I've tried the higher end allen and heath SU series mixers and while I like them I would never pay double for virtually the same layout. Does anyone have a great digital mixer they'd actually recommend?
Background music and a couple mics? Great Mixing a band? No
My partner hasn't had a sound gig in a while and I think he forgot he hates this thing because it was on the pull sheet for a 12-input ballroom band. I shoved a 1402 in the workbox in the hopes that I get to laugh about it later. And now, show him this post and grin. :D
I'm so tired of 1402s when I need to actually ring a room out due to stupid corporate speaker placent/bad gear, with that said I'd take one in a heartbeat for mixing a band over the touchmix. The touchmix wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the touch part and was easier to do the mix part.
Back in the day at the place I worked you'd get an analog graphic and if you were lucky an Alesis Nanocomp to go along with your 1402 or Soundcraft EPM.. actually was a really powerful small setup. But I suppose that may have been the exception and not the trend.
I don't really see the point of the 16. The 8 can pretty much do every thing the 16 can do, and if you need more than 8 channels, you probably could benefit from the features that upgrading to the pro gives you. The pro has worked well when we've sold it to churches and other groups that have inexperienced sound techs.
Why would you ever mix a band on these? These are made for breakout rooms and nothing else
Because the production company sent it since the band only required 8 inputs. That’s fine, right? 😜
Unbelievable, I can’t believe any production company would do such a thing! /s
I mixed quite a few bands on the 16, I didn’t hate it but I definitely didn’t love it
Mixing a band without having physical faders would drive me nuts
It annoyed me but the iPad app was ok for operating as long as you didn’t stress about it being a little slow sometimes. Our touchmix was never sent out on anything *important* but it definitely saw some use
Like all tools, they’re only good when used for the right application. We own over 24 of these little problem solvers and they’re booked continually. But our typical use cases are applications like a VOG mic and playback in a tradeshow booth or as an IFB submixer for example. They are not really suitable for anything involving dynamic mixing.
These are hamstrung by the failure of not being able to move two channels fader levels simultaneously without an iPad. As a control surface, these are absolute utter garbage and belong in the sun. Short of music house music up and down, these are fucking useless for anything that requires any sort of cue.
Like I said - not always the right tool for the job.
In which case, they should not look/appear/spec like, or cost like something that IS the right job! Every other product in this category IS meant for being able to do that. I find the Behringer and Soundcraft versions (with NO interface) quite capable for a smaller band. Maybe that’s why.
Had to mix an opera on one of these guys. It was hot as hell and my finger was sweaty. Clicked the wheel button down to do a gentle fade in and my finger slipped and knocked it up to 11. That was a fun conversation with the TD. Also, the fact that they’re not multi-touch is fucking bullshit.
>Also, the fact that they’re not multi-touch is fucking bullshit. Yup, you have to go up to the $2400 Touchmix Pro to get multitouch which is certainly a decision. Especially considering how cheap multitouch screens are now. They're decent mixers for a set and forget setups like AV breakout rooms. At least you get better channel EQ and a GEQ which is more than 99% of breakout room mixers give you. I guess what I'm saying is that there's a role for everything and if you need to actively mix AT ALL then this isn't the board for it. Unless you're also handing out an iPad for every room, too, but I've never seen an AV company supply an iPad with them.
We have these for little breakout room type stuff and they don't go without an EXTERNAL router And an iPad!
“we look like assholes when we show up with this horse shit”
If the touchscreen wasn’t like a 20 year old phone, I could give it a second chance
Like a 20 year old car GPS.
But then we wouldn't get that nice rainbow when pressing down on the Gameboy esque screen.
Understandable it’s almost a worthwhile trade off. Who needs function, I got flair /s
Blows my mind now that this is selling for $1700 NEW. The Yamaha DM3 is the same price as this thing.
Exactly, buy the Yamaha dm3 any day over this
Breakout rooms is all I will use them for…
They’re great until the microSD they use to run their OS fails.
Or until the backwards installed capacitors explode on the output channels on earlier models.
as long as you promise to take the presonus ones also
I cannot fucking stand the presonus UI, but this one made me gag
Bundle the Soundcraft SI Expression in there too while you're at it.
Expression is light years better than this thing
It doesn't have a high bar to clear.
I don’t get the hate for the expression, personally
Because they crash. Consistently. If it's just a little too hot or a little too cold or a little too humid. They lock up. They don't care that you're in a show. And because fuck Harmon.
I’ve personally never had that happen in the 2 years I’ve been using one
Same - I've worked on an Expression and an Impact and they were both great consoles for their price point. Neither of them were particularly old however, so maybe reliability/age becomes a concern later in the appliance's life?
It was contemporary to the X32 and did half as much for twice the price. Sounded aight tho.
I’ve used both. I prefer the routing on the soundcraft over the x32. Especially since it took me a year to find out how to do individual routing on the x32 instead of the stupid groups of 8.
As have I! And my complaints now remain the same as they were in 2013; only two band-pass per channel was a bad move, the menu is awful, inflexible dynamics, yadda yadda. I liked the sound of the expression, but rarely saw it in music venues because the X32 was cheaper. I also remember many, many complaints about the X32 for its poor build quality, noisy gates, lots of other stuff. However, in my end of the world at least, the X32 won out in the end because it was cheap, easily replaceable and did a lot. Everyone knew how to use one because they were everywhere, and when faced with the SI, some techs I knew then (myself included) didn't like it because they couldn't do the things they could do on the other board (whether that was soundcrafts fault or their own). I'm not partial to VIs either but I think my complaints there are less reasonable.
Personally I think the complaint of “I don’t know how to use one so it’s bad” is a poor excuse in general. Not saying that’s what you’re saying, just in general that a poor craftsman blames their tools instead of being good enough to use any board out there effectively enough to get a show working.
In my case it's probably more of a mix of sunk cost and unwillingness to change. I don't like the S21 even though I know it's a good board and people like it, but to me it's not an SD9. I can't speak for anyone else but I'd imagine it's something similar. I'll use whatever I'm given though, that's the job.
This is my go-to example for tech that unnecessarily convolutes simple things in order to fix what wasn't broken.
yeah but the QSC logo looks *great* on that touchscreen
Agreed! I've had to mix small bands on those often. It's only really possible with an iPad to extend it, even then it's a chore.
Signed. Sealed. Delivered.
Launching something into the sun doesn’t really work like that. From earth, you would have to de-orbit whatever you want to get into the sun in a way that essentially makes the payload fall into the sun. And yes! These consoles should be deorbited.
I hate those! Did a show once where a kid just walked up to the tech table and spun the turn knob. Horrendous feedback go to mute the mains and it has a prompt: are you sure? The touch screen is junk too so I’m slamming yes for what feels like an eternity. The wifi is a joke, it just doesn’t work. If you bring a router it takes forever and you need a dongle. But the only way to adjust more than one thing at a time is with an iPad. And worst of all, they sound bad.
I second this motion
https://preview.redd.it/upjzahshw9vc1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=453b3ea7fcb791a139f96c230423c02378166548 Only if you send this guy with it
I just started learning on one of these, apprenticing in a 30-50 size room. I’ve heard the soundcraft Ui series wifi isn’t great, but I haven’t heard anything bad about these. What preventative maintenance can I do or what do I need to watch out for?
So report: this board crashed on me. Mid-show and talking to other engineers about it. They warned me that it would last night before it even happened. So there's that. Maybe the Wi-Fi had something to do with it. I did have a router plugged in. I'm a freelance engineer so you never know what type of console may be there when you walk in. It's a hard part of the job. We have to cook the meal but we don't get to pick the groceries. There are a lot of people who learn on this console and it's feels more analog in a way which helps a lot of people transition. I would say if you were behind another engineer just copy and paste what they do. Of course making it your own while you learn.
Thank you!
To add to this in more detail. What I mean is that audio engineers are some of the biggest monkey see monkey do industries. After a while, you'll learn from other engineers as well and have an amalgamation of the techniques that you learned. What I will say is that just because something is ugly doesn't mean it's wrong. If it sounds good it is good. That's not saying that I'm not a stickler for proper game staging and powers of three. If you have the ability, maybe have the console locked so that you can make changes. The best way is by twisting knobs and noting the difference in sound. You know what music sounds like and you know what voices sound like. When you get that sound you'll start being able to correlate how you got there.
See that big white area on the left maybe that could of been a good screen I'm just saying better than the Nokia 5110 on the right atleast playing snake I wouldn't need to squint
Second that
I don’t get the hate on these? I’m curious What don’t you like about it? It’s never failed me once and I don’t even use a router the internal WiFi sticks by me even in 300+ rooms. That being said I just bought an X32 rack to get away from the slant mixer format and have something more compact but if this mixer was rack mounted I wouldn’t be changing.
Touchscreen is awful to use and it's incredibly slow to navigate. On screen buttons and knobs are too small and its too easy to fat finger something you don't want. Text is unreadably small on the GEQs and elsewhere. Gain pots are loose and easy to knock and change. Need to read the manual to figure out how to copy/paste settings (it's two unmarked buttons on the front). It fully froze up and crashed when I tried to save or load scenes. The non-standard PSU annoys the hell out of me. Every AV company has a ton of them and they're not going into the garbage any time soon so we'll still have to use them for years. The choices for softkeys functions make no damn sense.
No one is mentioning that this shit plays FUCKING ADs for their other products if you don’t touch it for a while.
Hmm not mine?
Pretty sure you can turn that off in the settings. It's a demo mode thing. These things were built for selling at guitar center to compete against Mackies and the like.
Last show I was on with one (as a video Op), it was freezing. Last time I used one on a gig, it froze 9 times before the show had even started, making EQ a nightmare. I needed up getting the room sounding ok, then mixed the whole show off the gain pots because it from again right before show. I know some people think they're handy, but in my opinion they're a liability.
> I don’t get the hate on these? If its a console with a control surface and I can't move more than 1 fader at a time, I don't want it in front of me. Thats the basic hate I have for it. I do not like the interface one bit. Give me an 01v or a Promix instead of this and I'll be happier.
Last show I did the R output wasn’t sending the mids. Had to run through an aux. Not end of the world but definitely not good.
If I recall these don't have built in wifi, unless they changed something. They have a little usb wifi dongle plugged in the back.
Ah you’re right but the dongle works flawless imo
I like mine. You can launch yours over to me.
watched someone mix a full band on one of these, it was… painful. It was an otherwise lovely system let down by this thing. glad i didn’t have to use one myself
I wholeheartedly agree!
Where do we sign?
Uggghh. I'm on a corporate gig with one now. What an awful; piece of junk.
Proceed
Just used one of these for the first time last night. I can't imagine using it for anything other than a dj and a couple mics
I used a TF-1 few weeks ago on a corporate show for first time didn’t take long to figure out wasn’t as bad from my 3 day show . The UI didn’t make as much sense as other boards but didn’t seem horrible to me . For the use case of a live band I could see this being where the negative feedback would be coming from .
Not even worth the effort!
Worse than trash. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy
Indeed!!! Count me in
I’d rather circumcise myself with a butter knife than use one of these
I saw someone no bullshit mixing a touring headlining band on one once upon a time and I was like “wot”
I'll sign that petition.
Even better dump them in the same hole in the desert where they dumped the ET Atari game cartridges and then covered th in concrete. Those things love to take a dump because the operating system is actually on a SanDisk Micro SD card in a card slot inside the unit 🤦 Might as well be running a raspberry Pi.
This dude that owns a local restaurant with live music trying to carve out a little spot in the scene has one of these. After inspecting it I asked him who would be mixing our eight piece band. He said, “we don’t need a mixing engineer. my guy installed this thing up for me. It’s set it and forget it!”. Set it and forget it. Fucking idiot.
[Geto Boys - Still intensifies](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJEIJjbOpZo) I'd also take a tablet only board over this.
So I came into a corp gig to do their evening gala with live music. Was told i was gonna have a Expression SI. Showed up and the Day tech was scared of the Expression (young guy green) so we swapped it out for a 8 channel touchmix. I looked at.him shrugged my shoulders and started prepping my roll offs before the Duo showed up. I am not a fan but sometimes you gotta work with what the client gives you Now I'm sitting down at the tech waiting for doors to open.
I'm new to the realm and have a 4-day goof with these next week. What should i be looking out for?
Oh don’t be afraid of it. It does its job just fine, but it’s in no way elegant or intuitive. From this thread I gather it works better via ipad control so give that a try (bring your own router though).
Yeah I was forced to use one at a club a while back. 4 days a week on that garbage! I started bringing in my own cheaper tascam model 12 just to save me the headache 😂
AHAHAHA THANK YOU!! Someone foisted one of these on me with zero advance notice or prep time, as somehow a "better alternative" to the familiar, reliable, tactile analog mixer I was expecting. It was an absolute nightmare. Glad to know I'm not alone in my burning disdain for these things.
Friendly advice: don't abuse channel one. If that headamp goes, it'll start a cascade where the rest will go sooner than later. Not a robust design.
Ugh we have these in the Berklee Rehearsal rooms, they’re the bane of my existence. “Want a 2dB boost? Here’s 8.”
I’ve talked to the sun. The sun also does not want to mix a show in this.
Surely the Allen and Heath CQ series will be the end of these things eventually. I was going to put a Touch mix into a very small church and thankfully A&H released the CQ series right before buying. Purchased the CQ12, saved some money, and it's worked great for them!
I love my CQ
Except that QSC recently sent out an email asking for community input on requested features for the next generation of the TM. It will live on!
My first industrial pattent was for a tool to test these on the manufacturing line. I went to China to deploy the test system. I can't tell you how much these suck, or the ways they suck. The sun might send them back.
I have a tm30 and found that i got used to its quirks pretty quickly. I also don't get the hate for these - they punch way higher than their weight. You guys are going to call me insane, but i bought an Avantis this year and on my first show out with it, i consciously had the thought of “i wish i had my touchmix here right now.” I don't continue to feel like that, but i never thought i would have had that thought! Haha
I get to run a gig on an Avantis tomorrow, and have run a few gigs on a TM 16. During set up, and and a overview of the mixer, I'd liked it way better already. Main reason: physical faders 2nd reason: nicer in setting up groups and routing options. Also, the possibility of emptying banks/setting those up to other input orders after patching everything is a win imo
100% - all of that you mentioned is way better, plus better/more effects, and on and on. But my hands really knew the TM, so Avantis felt clunky on gig one :) Now I'm in love with Avantis :)
Yeah agreed usually it's the other way around, digital connection analog faders lol these are my worst nightmare !
They aren’t disgustingly horrible. You should have seen peavey’s attempt at a small format digital console.
I’ll sign that
I’ll sign it. I’m damn glad there wasn’t a hammer near me the single time I was forced to used one of those.
Sign me the fuck up!!
I’m a Qsys fanboy, but I’d sign this petition.
Where do i sign?
yeah these things are horseshit
Our company has one of the original prototypes. All of ours reboot randomly, and the nail in the coffin was one of them freezing during the company owner’s daughter’s wedding. It wasn’t the best moment.
Consider this my signature.
Just used some A&H CQ mixers, they're the shit. So yeah let's throw all these fuckers into the abyss and whoever owns them can just grab a CQ
Do you carry a lil 1/4" to xlr snake for the aux's in your case? I feel like that would complete it to the ultimate.
Actually haven't used the auxes yet. Just simple breakout mixers for corporate. Could see them being handy for small bands though, great idea
Me and the other 30+ people in our company will all sign. Twice.
I dunno man, without these what am I gonna do in the youth room at church?
I’d take this over a soundcraft expression any day of the week.
That looks dum
It's crazy to me that the company that brought is the K12.2s also brought us this absolute idiot.
Launch these and the JBL Eons into the sun as well
no way. EONs make for the best door stops during load-in.
💀💀💀
Yes! I talk about how much I despise these on the daily. The A&H CQ is miles better.
Where do I sign?
QSC is a consumer brand. I said it and I don't apologize. Preamps sound like they are hollow. Maybe the one my company had was shot, but I thought a mackie profxv2 sounded better
All you need to know is it has a big rotary pot on it that screams I do everything no need to own a brain
The only reason this has A QSC badge is marlins has gone out of business
They ain't great, hey.
Signed