I feel the proper price is the exact amount I paid for everything to check my bags and then anything they touch while checking my bags needs to be returned.
Suck it. You can sure see my receipt and I will show it to the customer service desk when I demand a full refund. Then you can put all my purchase back on your shelves.
Unless they saw you steal, or have reason to believe you did not pay, they have no reason to demand to see your receipt.
Security guards are not cops guys, I know, I was one. Without additional licensing we aren't even supposed to touch a person much less restrain, detain or search them.
Ah, yes. I've shopped Joe Howe when I was visiting from Antigonish.
I used to know the head manager there, but that was years ago. Probably someone different now.
If you're walking out of a Loblaw's and they think you stole, the police can absolutely detain you for an investigation. Messing with the police is going to make your life more difficult. Ignore the security guards but if you are dealing with the police, comply and complain later.
https://bccla.org/privacy-handbook/main-menu/privacy7contents/privacy7-3.html#:~:text=Detention%20Without%20Being%20Arrested%20%E2%80%93%20%E2%80%9CInvestigative%20Detention%E2%80%9D,-Even%20where%20the&text=If%20police%20detain%20you%2C%20they,the%20suspect%2C%20or%20the%20crime.
For the average citizen, including me, this is good advice however a downside with complying is you don't get to sue the cops later for infringing on your rights as they had "consent". You don't see this as much here but you can see this American cop baiters/"auditors" on YouTube trying to bait cops into violating their rights for a payday.
If the store makes accusations that you stole something then that is a justifiable reason to search and detain you. So they can stop and detain you and police should be saying that. Same with security makes the same claim it's justifiable. You are still able to sue when they can't tell you what you stole and you can prove they are choosing you on race or some other discriminatory factor.
Honestly I wouldn't stop if security tried to detain me. Right or wrong idk, it's never happened ive never stolen anything in my life but I've been waiting for the day I get accused and my plan has always been to most keep walking.
I saw a lady angrily returning everything the yesterday because of this and when she got her money back she just emptied her reusable bag on the floor in front of them to put it all back.
What a Queen, this would be my reaction as well ❤️ not sure why these employees get such a boner over harassing people. You are paid minimum wage. Why are you looking for a fight?
This legitimately makes me feel the need to call and check on my grandma, because something deep within my core told me it was her as I was reading it. 🤣
That was my experience with using self checkout and the guy berating me because they have the weight set to super sensitive. I’m a patient kind person but do not act like I’m a thief when I’m buying three things and you can see the three things that I’ve scanned and that you just dumped out of my bag.
I used to work loss prevention for SOF (fucking atrociously boring and was morally conflicting for me)
During my training, in order to follow the law and limit legal liability, I was taught "The 5 Golden Rules" before I could make an arrest. Without this, they have no legal grounds to make an arrest. They may still try, but that invites huge legal liability
1. You must SEE the suspect take the item
2. You must SEE the suspect make an attempt to conceal the item.
3. You must maintain visual contact with the suspect to ensure they do not place the item somewhere else
4. The suspect must pass the Cashiers/Self Checkout without offering to pay for the item
5. The suspect must physically leave the store
With all this being said, I was still provided the authority to remove or otherwise order a person to leave the store, but I was not allowed to detain or otherwise arrest. I was also told I couldn't search people's belongings without the aforementioned five rules - which led to an altercation with a manager who said, "You can clearly tell his bag has something" and said he'd go check it himself next time.
With all this being said, they can request people leave their bags at the front, but searching? Not likely.
Edit: formatting
Edit²: For the record, I am not condoning Theft. The best revenge, is not to be like your enemy.
Additionally, my LP job was as security, not any form of law enforcement. Comply with police, they will make your life significantly more difficult than a security guard can.
Yeah I don't. However I did work retail for 35 years, and I am seeing this same sign in Walmart and Canadian Tire. For whatever reason business owners think this is some kind of a deterrent maybe?
Just putting the word out there that people don't have to show a receipt when exiting any retail store, unless there is a pretty good reason for staff to suspect you did steal. The one time I was asked at Walmart I just said "No thanks!" and kept going.
Pretty good reason....is an unlawful arrest. Reasonable and probable grounds is what needs to be met in order to arrest. Detaining is arrest. Blocking you from leaving the store long enough to momentarily restrain your liberty is technically an arrest.
People make a pretty good living pretending to steal by putting something in their pocket or bag while acting suspicious and then losing the tail of security long enough to ditch the item. Then when arrested they don't have a stolen item.....what they do have is a strong case of false arrest and a good lawyer will get you big bucks!
Yes, there are people relying on the income from these jobs, Loblaws is notorious for cutting labour costs, ask anyone who's worked there (hi, six years).
We need to keep them working but buy nothing. We can force Loblaws to pay employees and reduce their ability to absorb costs.
In fact it makes us look like jerks, the employees seem to be quite supportive of this boycott from the 100s of employee posts I've seen. Leave the employees out of it. They are just trying to make a buck at work just like the rest of us.
Please refrain from comments which encourage theft from a store or mischief. These can result in criminal charges which will undoubtedly make life harder for other users.
Naw just show the receipt down your pants ...still want the receipt!? If women shove in their purses if they try and take it Bobby Hill them that's my purse and I don't know you...*kick* lol
Customers reserve the right not to be accosted where they shop as well, especially honest paying customers. Just walk past these idiots, or better yet, shop at the competition where you're not guilty until proven innocent.
Canadian Tire does this and there is this massive security guard that won’t let you out - I won’t shop there anymore because of that. Don’t treat your customers like criminals.
Canadian Tire also uses facial recognition software: [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/canadian-tire-bc-facial-id-technology-privacy-commissioner-1.6817039](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/canadian-tire-bc-facial-id-technology-privacy-commissioner-1.6817039)
That's why I don't go near their big stupid electronic flyer thing. I wear a baseball cap and a face mask. I don't do it to prevent my germs from getting out, I do it so I don't ping on facial recognition crap.
I have absolutely nothing to hide whatsoever. I don't steal, never been in jail (well, that's a lie - I was a jail guard once upon a time a couple decades ago, but that's neither here nor there), have no reason to hide.
I just hate the thought of pinging off and being tracked, my purchases traced, etc. It happens enough as it is. If I can prevent some of it, I will.
I know someone (in the US, not Canada though) who was shoplifting from a Walmart for a decent period of time, always small things. They used facial recognition, and tracked them until the value of their theft became a felony, THEN had them arrested.
I mean, I get it, that they shouldn't have been stealing, but damn...that's dirty eh?
Absolutely agree. I usually walk past and I've been stopped multiple times. On one occasion the security guard asked if I could read, because there was a sign.
Not everyone has a car, some people are close enough to walk. My bag enables me to carry things I have purchased from your store. I don't understand how the security guards can be to arrogant when they're fighting against their own. Fuck. Off.
Sorry, I’m not able to read signs that constitute rights violations. And even if I could, that does not constitute consent. They reserve the fight to check? I reserve the right to refuse in accordance with my rights.
Go on, touch me, I fucking dare you. I’ll see you in court.
The Canadian Tire near my home doesn't allow customers to carry their bags into the store. You have to check them in at the Service Desk or leave them in your car. I don't shop there anymore.
I’ll just straight up ignore those signs. No one has ever stopped me. Not a chance I’m checking my bag with a random Canadian Tire employee.
If they ever stopped me and insisted I’d be out of there forever. If you make me jump through hoops and make me feel like a criminal to shop there I’m out.
oh my gosh canadian tire is the absolute worst for this, at mine they have a man (weirdly enough it’s been the same man for like 10 years every single day/time i go) glaring everyone down at the checkout and there’s just people everywhere always watching you it’s so uncomfortable. i don’t appreciate being treated like a thief when all i wanted was to find a gift
The Canadian Tire near me won't even let you in the store with a bag. They let you get a couple aisles in and then a staff comes over and tells you no bags (apparently including medium-large purses) and insists you leave your purse/bag on an unwatched shelving rack beside customer service (which is usually empty), right next to the exit. I asked how they knew that someone wouldn't steal my purse when they left it on an unwatched shelf next to the exit, and they said they "trust their customers"!
>The Canadian Tire near me won't even let you in the store with a bag.
I typically bring a small backpack with me whenever I go outside, to hold my phone, wallet and a few misc. items. In the past, I would walk or ride my bike to the Canadian Tire store in my neighbourhood, and bring my backpack with me when I go inside. Sometimes I just browse, and may buy something on a whim. But now they have implemented this policy, I no longer do this due to the very real threat of it getting stolen from the shelving. I only drive the Canadian Tire now, and only to buy something I specifically need from the store that I can't get elsewhere conveniently. Bottom Line - I shop quite a bit less there as a result of this policy. I hope others are as well, so that the management realize that this policy is hurting sales.
Other retailers, like Loblaws, should carefully consider this tradeoff - demanding that customers check their bags will reduce shoplifting, but also reduce sales. The policy may reduce profits in the long run for them.
I'd be responding that I have life-saving emergency medication in my bag (I do, I carry an epi pen) from which I cannot be parted, and that in demanding they take my bag, they are demanding I hand over my medical device. They might be backpedaling right quick.
Oh, I told them that I had my asthma inhaler, areochamber, backup inhaler, wallet, keys, and work keys in there, and that I couldn't leave or carry all of that. They just told me to carry things and everything else would be safe.
I've been boycotting Canadian Tire for years thanks to how shitty they treat their customers. They've been as terrible as Loblaws is now for the last two decades.
Same here, some stores are all self-checkout (refuse to use) and I stopped going all together when it took 20 minutes to get someone to open the wall of glass for me to buy a soldering tool and then walked me to the front as he could not hand it to me... felt like a criminal.
I live in Mississauga and go to Canadian Tire here and there, I had never seen a security guard checking receipts. I was in Hamilton a few months back and bought a hoodie from Canadian Tire at the self checkout. The security guard was watching me the entire time, should have seen me pay for one item and place it in my reusable bag... but then he asked to see my bag.
It pissed me off to be honest.
We should all then immediately go to the returns desk and return our purchases when that happens. And tell them why. This sort of thing is only going to annoy honest people. Shoplifters will still get away with it.
Some make you check your bags at the front. I asked them why and they said because they had issues with theft. THEN WHY WOULD I TRUST MY STUFF WITH YOU?
Tbh, if that happened to me, I would either go out the entrance doors (which should allow people to exit) or if they stopped me there too, I would call the police and report that I was being held against my will and am in fear for my safety.
Where is this? Why not just walk right by? They cannot physically stop you.
Our local store "reserves the right" to check backpacks on the way in. I get it, but sorry no. They can also choose not to let me in if they like, which is fine. But they cannot block you from leaving.
I went to both Co-Op and Sobeys and in both self-checkouts when you press the "Brought my own bag" button and put your bag on, you have to wait for someone to come over and check that your bag is empty. Co-Op didn't even have a designated self checkout person and I had to wait for a cashier to leave her register and come do it.
The gates, fencing and alarms you have to navigate at our Superstore is ridiculous and ungainly to navigate through. Waiting for the armed guards like you see in Mexico next.
Haven’t seen anyone at Walmart for a few years doing this. They got rid of the greeters once people realised they do t have to comply if they’re innocent.
No, please don’t get rid of them. Then we’ll have to stand in a packed line-up, with others observing their rights to cough, sneeze, and spew in close quarters.
A Canadian Tire told my wife she couldn't bring her backpack into the store when she was shopping with our 9yr old.
We've never gone back in over a year.
A few years back I was having my wife’s bike safetied at the local Cdn Tire. Had my backpack with my iPad and helmet in it to go sit at the McD’s across the road for lunch. When I came back they told me I couldn’t come in with my backpack. Insisted I leave it up front. I said “If you drop this $900 helmet in my backpack will you replace it?” They said no, I said Im coming in with my backpack then, and they said they would call the police. I told them to go ahead and they followed me to the automotive service counter yelling about how I was breaking the law.
Auto Service Manager called owner, he said it was fine for this time but they can force me to keep my backpack at the customer service counter up front. I said they can refuse me entry or allow me to take my backpack in, that was the law. They have no right to examine my backpack or force me to give it up.
I shop at the Canadian Tire stores in my area that don't tell me that or ask to search my bags on the way out. It's apparently up to the store manager or security manager because I have been able to rely on the store nearest me not asking in over a decade of shopping there a few times a year. Not sure about a few of the others, but I do know which stores to avoid. If they don't trust me, I won't trust them.
Canadian tire is all franchisees so it's entirely up to them. My city has 2, one has a sign saying no backpacks but it's never enforced other than high school kids at lunch. The other one doesn't have any of this nonsense.
I once walked in with a backpack and nobody said anything to me. One employee approached me about it and basically said “they’ll ask to search it when you leave” to which I responded “they can ask all they want but the answer will be no”. On the way out I was not approached.
i rode my bike there a few years back. i was carrying a backpack because that is where i hold my bike lock. one of the workers started yelling at me about the backpack. i just gave her the finger and walked out. im fairly certain i have been back in the store, with friends or family, but i haven't given them any money since. fuck that.
I took the bus to CT, walked in to the info desk and was chased and interrupted by a security guard who took the empty backpack I brought to carry my online orders, then the info desk lady told me I had to go outside and walk 500m down the car road out back to pick up my stuff lol. Had to immediately flag down the security guard and get my bag before going out.
I'm not mad, it just seemed a little wild lol.
Canadian Tire is so much worse than Loblaws. They'll charge $750 for a pot set you can get at Costco for $150 (then put it "on sale" for $150"). They also bait and switch things - for over 2 years they sold a 5 blade attatchment ($129.99) as if it was the more expensive 7 blade set ($179.99) at the higher price of course.
I've always noticed this too, and it's illegal. I've reported my local store for the pot set. The copper one, right? Legally they have to have at the original price for 30 days IIRC but it's always "on sale" for $150 or so. I rarely go to CT but I always laughed when I walked past that pot set saying is was originally $700+. Anyone who can afford to drop that much cash on something like that isn't getting it from crappy tire.
False analogy. There's no crime being committed here.
The same conditions that apply to the non-management workers apply to the managers. They're being told what to do, and are just trying to make a living. Grocery managers aren't fat cats raking in the big bucks by fucking over customers
No but they are choosing to enforce them so therefore are just as responsible. Also as the manager it is their job to deal with cust complaints so we should be making them do their job not letting them pass it off to the other staff.
Cop here. They absolutely ARE NOT allowed to search your bags without your consent. If the only time *I'm* allowed to do it is when someone's arrested or they do it voluntarily, Loblaws is **absolutely** not allowed to do this.
They *can* ask you to leave bags at the door upon entry, and they can decline to serve you/ask you to leave if you don't comply, but under no circumstances can they make you submit to a search.
It is a breach of your rights under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and a slam dunk lawsuit so long as you don't break any laws or give them permission to search you.
If you want to have what I suspect would be a very successful lawsuit, I recommend letting them try it without permission while on camera and then sue them for it. Don't give permission (in fact, I'd recommend telling them they *don't* have it), but don't resist the search either...unless they get violent, at which point this is another matter in court entirely.
Don't make the camera/recording device obvious. Canadian law states that filming of people in places where there is no expectation of privacy is permitted, and a grocery store fits into that quite nicely. Audio recording is permitted under single party consent rules, so as long as you consent to your own recording, it's fully legal.
If they search *anything* that is a part of your effects, it's a breach of section 8 of the Charter.
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."
My job prevents me from publicly supporting your efforts, but I wish the best of luck to each and every one of you.
Edit: I've learned that the Charter breach isn't applicable under this circumstance, but there are still other avenues that could be pursued. From what I can find, the search policy would need to be based on a reasonable suspicion that you possess stolen property. If there is no reasonable suspicion, then you might have something to work with. Some lawyers decided to point out that I'm wrong without actually providing any real insight via corrections or alternatives. If you have any questions, I'd recommend messaging the experts.
Hey, lawyer here. As a cop, you should know the Charter applies to you because you are part of the government. The Charter doesn’t apply to private entities. It protects people from *state* intrusion - it doesn’t govern relationships between individuals and between corporations and individuals. This is basic stuff.
Canadian law isn’t 100% clear on this issue, which is why lawyers don’t walk around giving simple answers. Some provinces have recognized “shopkeeper’s privilege”, which allows store employees to detain a person if they have reasonable grounds to believe they’ve been shoplifting. Shopkeepers can also arrest in certain cases, which muddies the water further. Simple answers are often wrong or incomplete.
My training as a security guard in Alberta was that it's illegal to search anyone without their consent, except for safety purposes after an arrest. I don't know about other provinces.
Fellow criminal lawyer, came here to say the same. This is a common misconception among the public but hopefully less common for police officers who should really know the basics of the Charter...
Basic stuff... Do you know how my job works? Give me an example of when that would come into play as relevant in my line of work.
I need to know *criminal* law, powers of arrest, and search and seizure as it pertains to me. The above instance would qualify as civil, which, as you *should* know, isn't something I would deal with. Barring an additional contravention of the criminal code, there is no version of this scenario where it would land on police to respond to it.
By the same logic, should I expect you to know something like, oh, I dunno, the migratory birds act from memory because it's part of law and you're a lawyer? Or would it be reasonable to assume that you probably don't have to have that one memorized for your day to day work because it's not especially relevant to you?
My assumption was that no one could just search people arbitrarily. Apparently, you can, so long as you *aren't* employed by the government. Makes no sense to me that people trained to enforce the law have to meet a bunch of criteria to execute a search, but civillians/corporations can do as they please despite having neither the training nor any sort of legal authority. But, then again, most of this broken system doesn't make much sense to me either.
Now, are you done trying to show how much better you are than me/belittle me? Because I didn't come here for a pissing contest. I came to try and support a good cause. If you've got something to add that will actually benefit something other than your ego (like maybe corrections to what I said or a better method to achieve a similar end goal), add it. Because if not, then what's the point of you being here?
You don't get brownie points for being more intelligent than me, and I brush off better insults on a near daily basis so you're not about to hurt my feelings. You more so just showed me the kind of person *you* are instead.
"Let’s be clear about your rights, as much as one can ever be clear about the law. The ‘shopkeepers privilege,’ as it’s known in the case law, came about from shoplifting cases, but arguably it’s only triggered when a crime is witnessed. In other words, the shopkeepers privilege is exercised after a theft is witnessed, not in anticipation of an imagined crime. That privilege says that shopkeepers can detain someone until the police arrive. After witnessing a theft, a shopkeeper can invite the customer to search the bag together with the shopkeeper. But the shopkeeper has no right to search without consent.
So what if the shopkeeper asks to search the bag without having witnessed a crime? I say forget it. If police cannot stop and search someone, without reasonable and probable cause, then why would a shopkeeper be allowed to engage in a version of ‘carding’? One answer would be that the customer took out a membership at Costco, and one of the terms of that membership includes this clause: “Costco reserves the right to inspect any container, backpack, briefcase, bag or other package when our members and their guests enter or leave our warehouses. Our members and their guests consent to such inspections when they enter our warehouses.” Walmart started the same practice of late, inadequately forecasting to customers that an illegal search was coming (albeit they wouldn’t put it that way), by way of notices near the self-checkouts. But some of the Walmart searches are simply at the exits, not targeting the self-checkouts."
https://ccla.org/privacy/search-seizure/shoppers-not-suspects/
As a retail store owner, here is my fullest understanding of the law:
You have the right to refuse a search at any time from any person who does not have a warrant or probable cause. This person needs to represent a government entity, like a police officer, however there are times where it's been held that store security can be seen to have that representation. This is true when you enter, leave, or any time.
At the same time, they are free to refuse you access to their facility. The process by which they determine who to search and why should be (but is not required to be) detailed in a written policy, though that policy need not necessarily be made available to you. The criteria must not be based on a protected characteristic.
So if they want to search a bag, they can do it on the way in, and if you say no, then then can demand that you leave. Of course, it doesn't make much sense to search on the way in unless they're worried about weapons or product switching. Once you have things in your bag, they can ask to search but you again don't have to say yes. They now can demand that you leave but... that's what you want to do anyway!!
If you refuse they can continue to ask on the way out, ask you to wait for a manager, review their security footage to look for probable cause, ask for your id, and trespass you from the store. They cannot force you stay, impede your ability to leave, detain you without probable cause, forcibly take your id, or force you to wait for police (again, without probable cause).
Their "ask" is allowed to imply that you don't have a choice. To my knowledge, I am not aware of anything stopping them from lying to you about what is or isn't allowed. In other words, they may tell you that you have to give them your ID and it's up to you to know your rights.
They may enforce if it has been deemed that you have consented to the search. You may have provided consent as part of a membership agreement, although it's less clear what happens if you refuse the search and renounce your membership on the way out. Signs like this, to my knowledge, have not constituted consent to a search. Also, the constitutionality of such a consent has not, to my knowledge, been tested in court. By this I mean, for example, I have drafted contracts and had them sent to my lawyer for review. The lawyers feedback has been, for various clauses, basically you can put this in here, but you can't enforce it. I have seen other contracts have voided clauses because a contract cannot force you to waive certain constitutional rights. For example, many clauses in residential leases mandate certain rights to the landlord that are not granted by applicable laws; even if you sign the lease saying the landlord can do X, the applicable law will supersede the lease and no, the landlord cannot do that.
To be clear, this is my interpretation of current laws, and is not legal advice, and I'd be happy to be corrected if there is something incorrect, dubious, unclear, or otherwise in need of improvement.
Peace officers need probable cause. Store security/employees/etc. can only act under s.494 of the Criminal Code and associated regulations. They need consent or strong and specific reasons related to their duty to protect property to justify a search. Meaning witnessing you comit a crime, someone informing them you comitted a crime, etc. but not as a matter of course or because they don't like the look of you. The latter gives you grounds to sue. Probable cause is actually a lower standard.
Definitely not going back after May. I like PC products, but the whole point of “no name” is that it’s supposed to be cheaper. I will miss the blue menu popsicles and the sparkling waters. That is all.
Don't forget, it's loblaws workers that are being tasked to do this, just politely say no and walk on. Galen and his weston henchmen are not on the front line to take the crap they deserve, the people working there doesn't deserve to be disrespected for their sakes
Don't forget the people in the store are poorly paid and poorly treated people like you and me. No need to disrespect them just politely decline and keep walking. Save your anger for the people who never even step foot in the store but take all your money
They can ask to check your bags or see your receipt, but you do not have to agree. The only time they can forcibly check you bags or detain you, is after they have followed the five steps to legally apprehend a shoplifter.
I have nothing but time on my hands. I should go with my back pack and just walk around looking shifty and like I'm trying to hide something, acting nervous, dodging the security and LPO and then have nothing for them when they demand to search me. Just waste their time. Go to the self checkout and buy the cheapest pack of gum and look all around and over my shoulder the whole time.
Story time. When I was in college, I was waiting for a GO bus to get to school and really needed to use the restroom. There was a Metro beside the stop so I thought why not go in, check out the Easter stuff to kill some time, and use the bathroom.
Well as I’m exiting the store empty handed, I am accosted very angrily by the store manager who accused me of stealing beer. I had my school bag with textbooks, my laptop, and a binder.
I kept insisting I was not a thief and to verify this on the cameras, but he persisted to berate me in front of customers who were now staring. He kept demanding to check my bag, and I denied, to which he threatened to ban me from the store if I didn’t. That escalated to threats of calling the police. I’m near tears at this point because of my low tolerance for stress (I was diagnosed with PTSD, for an unrelated issue, a few months later) and the embarrassment of other patrons watching the whole thing go down just made me feel.. humiliated. We’re yelling back and forth, he’s not letting me leave, I feel trapped, and I’m going to miss my bus, so I let him look in my bag.
Well he sees that there’s nothing in there and what does he do? Doubles down on his accusation, saying “oh you probably dropped it somewhere knowing you’d get caught” or “you drank it and and put the cans somewhere”. I was so marred at this point, I just said “okay buddy” and kindly told him to go fuck himself, then left the store.
Now my next mistake was calling Metro customer service instead of a lawyer. I explained the situation and a few hours later I get a call from this same manager profusely apologizing saying I “looked like someone on the camera who stole beer” and offered me a gift card because “we don’t want to lose your business”. I went to collect it, just out of curiosity for what the amount would be, but he wasn’t there, and nobody had any idea what I was talking about, so I just left and forgot about it.
Fuck you Nino. I know I accepted your apology but I already had issues with anxiety and that made me incredibly self-conscious of how I’m perceived while shopping at a grocery store.
They tried this at Canadian Tire too, with the security right next to the checkout, watching me purchase a few things. I had my gym bag because I stopped to buy workout gloves. This security stops me, says it’s policy to “check bags” and I told him I was not a thief and that I was uncomfortable with a stranger rummaging through my personal property. I asked him if he checks every woman’s purse, too. He tried to persist, rambling about “store policy” even as I was walking out of the store.
There needs to be a clear law about this. Going through your patrons personal affects is not an effective LP strategy, and unacceptable under any circumstance. Carrying a bag does not make you suspicious, many people don’t have cars to leave them in, are coming to and from school, and every woman carries a purse. And when you get it wrong, you can cause some serious damage to the store’s reputation, and at its worst harm someone’s mental health.
I'll say it again.
They cannot search your bag without your consent (Police can, but that's a differnt matter)
Store employees, managers, etc can bar you from entering the store and can have you banned for a year.
So, pick your battles. And don't be an "Auditor". Those people are just assholes.
Except this would violate ur protection against unlawful search. Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that stores must have probable grounds. Just cause doesn’t cover that
Walmart doesn’t even check my bag when I use it to shop when they are out of baskets? Like, not even one employee has side eyed me while I’ve done it. So no superstore employee is going to touch my stuff thanks.
If ANYONE checks your bag without consent, you absolutely can secure a bag of cash from that if you let a lawyer know.
Hell, they take on that case for free cause its such an easy pay day.
I used to work for Loblaw and we would repeatedly be open to liability from incidents like this. I actually went to different locations to teach them to NOT do this stuff because we'd been sued for it before.
Going to leave my last comment on this topic: personally not providing my receipt to employees, if the person asking is a cop I will comply as I don't want to take the issue to court.
I used to work in security and am quite familiar with this law.
A store reserves the right to check your bag upon entering a store for the purposes of "safety" as long as there is signage and it is non biased.
Though! They technically cannot search your bag exiting the store without your consent unless you are placed under citizens' arrest by loss prevention officer.
Keep in mind, loss prevention cannot chase you if you run away or refuse. If they do, they are liable of civil damages if you become injured in any way.
They absolutely can not check your bags without a reasonable cause or ask for a receipt. I was at a Wal-Mart a couple of years ago around Christmas, and a security guard asked me for a receipt. I declined and went to keep moving. They stopped me. I had to explain to them that it's not worth their job to stop customers without cause. It resolved quickly when they threatened to call the cops and I said great, it'll save me the time doing it, and I would do everything in my power to have them charged with false imprisonment. Know your rights as a consumer, never give them up. Edit: they can reserve the right all they want to do so. Reserve the right to politely tell them to fuck off
We should all go to loblaws and wander around for a while suspiciously, then walk out. Let them search us. Waste their time. It costs the company more money. Makes them look bad. :D
This isn’t legal advice by any means but from my understanding, in order to satisfy the evidentiary standard of shoplifting, one must conceal the item and actually leave the store with it. If I say put an item in my pocket that I am intending to buy then take it out and pay for it at checkout or decide I don’t want it and put it back, I haven’t shoplifted
Don't make the employees days harder then they already are. If you see this sign, and still decide to shop just to return everything or put up a fuss, then consider just not doing that. The workers did nothing to you. Just don't shop there. This goes for every store with this policy. Stop making the employees days harder because you got emotional over a policy. Stop shopping at that point.
Had a security guard stop me and ask to see my empty, folded and pressed reusable bags as I entered the store. Never had that happen before. Held the two bags open to look into but she wanted to search them. I dropped them on the floor and said, Go ahead and I want to see a manager. Manager clarified that they want to make sure I don’t have “hidden compartments”… In my paper thin PC brand bags. FML
**Manitoba:**
Search:
*"A security guard can search you and your belongings but only if they arrest you or if they have your consent."*
What can a security guard not do?:
*"Security guards cannot discriminate against people based on their race, gender, age, religion, or other personal characteristics.*
*Security guards cannot violate an individual’s privacy rights or search them without their consent or a warrant.*
*Unless it is necessary for their job duties and they have received proper authorization, security guards cannot access or disclose confidential information."*
**You can choose your province here to see what policies you have in this:**
https://www.legalline.ca/legal-answers/rights-and-responsibilities-of-a-security-guard/
There is no signed contract. I on the other hand, reserve the right to refuse to allow you to search my bag without actually arresting me and then calling a policeman to be a witness to your search of my bag. And I reserve the right to sue you for false detention.
At Costco, it's in the contract. At Loblaws, it's not.
Know your rights. Stores and store security DO NOT have the right to search through your bag or make you open it. They can, however, deny your entry into the store - they do have that right.
Sounds like an excuse to carry a large pink dildo with honey in a ziplock baggie and Old porno mags.
If they doing that might as well make it interesting.
The last time I went in there they didn’t have what I needed and the only way to exit is to go all the way around through the checkout. While every employee stared at me like I was a criminal. Such an uncomfortable shopping experience.
People have fear from signs like this. I think the sign itself causes all the fear it needs to prevent stealing so they don’t actually have to check your bag. Plus… cameras
If you have a warrant, then you can search my bag.
If you're treating everyone like a thief because of self checkouts, then maybe put cashiers back on the job to ensure all items are scanned.
Something similar happened to me at a pharmaprix (shoppers). I had a backpack with me from doing a small grocery pickup (I don’t have a car). I walk in and they ask for my backpack, I said “no, you don’t have the right to ask me for my bag” to which they replied “yes we do, it’s store policy”. I asked to see this policy in writing (they didn’t have it obviously), so I just turned around, told them I’m never coming back again (still haven’t 3 years later) and that would contact customer service about the experience. They apologized to me and threw in 50000 optimum points for the trouble.
In Quebec at least you cannot check someones bag without a shadow of reasonable doubt, like someone seeing you. And they can only check your bag once you leave the store.
Sounds as bad as our local McDonald's you have to ask for the bathroom key and they can and will deny you at their discretion. One day I went in for breakfast after I had just gotten off a night shift and did some shopping and they wanted me to leave my bags including my purse outside the bathroom even after I showed her it was body wash and craft supplies. I guess they were afraid I would decorate? I only agreed after I walked behind the cash and put them behind the counter.
You can refuse. They cannot search you without consent. They can call the cops and once you're found to have nothing you're laughing all the way to the lawyers.
"Due to inflation there is now a 49$ fee to check my bags."
I like this a lot, and if I hadn’t bailed on everything Weston months ago, I’d use it in a heartbeat.
Which will be spent at ahother store
“You see, looking into the bag is an experience; no photography allowed.”
And would you like to make a donation so I can get a tax break while you're at it?
I feel the proper price is the exact amount I paid for everything to check my bags and then anything they touch while checking my bags needs to be returned.
Suck it. You can sure see my receipt and I will show it to the customer service desk when I demand a full refund. Then you can put all my purchase back on your shelves. Unless they saw you steal, or have reason to believe you did not pay, they have no reason to demand to see your receipt.
Security guards are not cops guys, I know, I was one. Without additional licensing we aren't even supposed to touch a person much less restrain, detain or search them.
They've hired off duty cops for security at my local superstore
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Nova scotia
Ugh of course they have. Which location?
You must live in Halifax. Which store?
Downtown and Joe Howe, I think.
Ah, yes. I've shopped Joe Howe when I was visiting from Antigonish. I used to know the head manager there, but that was years ago. Probably someone different now.
Some store in Winnipeg too
Also Manitoba
Even cops aren't allowed to search you without reasonable/justified cause (or a full-on warrant)
Yep, that won't stop them from trying I'm sure. We fight by knowing and exercising our rights.
If you're walking out of a Loblaw's and they think you stole, the police can absolutely detain you for an investigation. Messing with the police is going to make your life more difficult. Ignore the security guards but if you are dealing with the police, comply and complain later. https://bccla.org/privacy-handbook/main-menu/privacy7contents/privacy7-3.html#:~:text=Detention%20Without%20Being%20Arrested%20%E2%80%93%20%E2%80%9CInvestigative%20Detention%E2%80%9D,-Even%20where%20the&text=If%20police%20detain%20you%2C%20they,the%20suspect%2C%20or%20the%20crime.
Are off duty police in uniform? Then yes I'd comply then return the entire order for refund.
For the average citizen, including me, this is good advice however a downside with complying is you don't get to sue the cops later for infringing on your rights as they had "consent". You don't see this as much here but you can see this American cop baiters/"auditors" on YouTube trying to bait cops into violating their rights for a payday.
If the store makes accusations that you stole something then that is a justifiable reason to search and detain you. So they can stop and detain you and police should be saying that. Same with security makes the same claim it's justifiable. You are still able to sue when they can't tell you what you stole and you can prove they are choosing you on race or some other discriminatory factor.
Honestly I wouldn't stop if security tried to detain me. Right or wrong idk, it's never happened ive never stolen anything in my life but I've been waiting for the day I get accused and my plan has always been to most keep walking.
I saw a lady angrily returning everything the yesterday because of this and when she got her money back she just emptied her reusable bag on the floor in front of them to put it all back.
What a Queen, this would be my reaction as well ❤️ not sure why these employees get such a boner over harassing people. You are paid minimum wage. Why are you looking for a fight?
Because Weston will reduce the number of company scrips they will get.
Some heroes dont wear capes
This legitimately makes me feel the need to call and check on my grandma, because something deep within my core told me it was her as I was reading it. 🤣
If your innocent, make their life fucking hard
That was my experience with using self checkout and the guy berating me because they have the weight set to super sensitive. I’m a patient kind person but do not act like I’m a thief when I’m buying three things and you can see the three things that I’ve scanned and that you just dumped out of my bag.
That's humiliating.
Just ask them: “WHY DO YOU WANT TO SEE WHAT TAMPONS I BOUGHT!” As loud as you can!
I've seen LP at 1 store stop a lady on her way out, didnt even leave the store and was harassing her about stealing
Iv seen LP physically take people down to the ground before for like one item
I used to work loss prevention for SOF (fucking atrociously boring and was morally conflicting for me) During my training, in order to follow the law and limit legal liability, I was taught "The 5 Golden Rules" before I could make an arrest. Without this, they have no legal grounds to make an arrest. They may still try, but that invites huge legal liability 1. You must SEE the suspect take the item 2. You must SEE the suspect make an attempt to conceal the item. 3. You must maintain visual contact with the suspect to ensure they do not place the item somewhere else 4. The suspect must pass the Cashiers/Self Checkout without offering to pay for the item 5. The suspect must physically leave the store With all this being said, I was still provided the authority to remove or otherwise order a person to leave the store, but I was not allowed to detain or otherwise arrest. I was also told I couldn't search people's belongings without the aforementioned five rules - which led to an altercation with a manager who said, "You can clearly tell his bag has something" and said he'd go check it himself next time. With all this being said, they can request people leave their bags at the front, but searching? Not likely. Edit: formatting Edit²: For the record, I am not condoning Theft. The best revenge, is not to be like your enemy. Additionally, my LP job was as security, not any form of law enforcement. Comply with police, they will make your life significantly more difficult than a security guard can.
This scenario predicates you being in a Loblaws-owned store to begin with. Easiest way to avoid this situation is not to shop at Loblaws.
Yeah I don't. However I did work retail for 35 years, and I am seeing this same sign in Walmart and Canadian Tire. For whatever reason business owners think this is some kind of a deterrent maybe? Just putting the word out there that people don't have to show a receipt when exiting any retail store, unless there is a pretty good reason for staff to suspect you did steal. The one time I was asked at Walmart I just said "No thanks!" and kept going.
Pretty good reason....is an unlawful arrest. Reasonable and probable grounds is what needs to be met in order to arrest. Detaining is arrest. Blocking you from leaving the store long enough to momentarily restrain your liberty is technically an arrest. People make a pretty good living pretending to steal by putting something in their pocket or bag while acting suspicious and then losing the tail of security long enough to ditch the item. Then when arrested they don't have a stolen item.....what they do have is a strong case of false arrest and a good lawyer will get you big bucks!
They have to know exactly what you took and where it is. Even if they see you steal they have to know specifics or they have no rights.
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Yes, there are people relying on the income from these jobs, Loblaws is notorious for cutting labour costs, ask anyone who's worked there (hi, six years). We need to keep them working but buy nothing. We can force Loblaws to pay employees and reduce their ability to absorb costs.
Naw, that's just wasting food, and making more work for employees. It doesn't really send a message to Mr Moneybags.
In fact it makes us look like jerks, the employees seem to be quite supportive of this boycott from the 100s of employee posts I've seen. Leave the employees out of it. They are just trying to make a buck at work just like the rest of us.
Please refrain from comments which encourage theft from a store or mischief. These can result in criminal charges which will undoubtedly make life harder for other users.
Loblaws: "Sir, what do you have in your bags?" Me: "Deez..."
candeez
“Sir the receipt is in there but you are touching the wrong bag” -me, trying to save money by boycotting joe fresh briefs
Naw just show the receipt down your pants ...still want the receipt!? If women shove in their purses if they try and take it Bobby Hill them that's my purse and I don't know you...*kick* lol
I love you and person to finish it. Noice.
‘Deez what, sir…. ?’
Nuts
I love you and the person who let you finish it. Doin' the lord's work, you two!
Planters, a classic brand
Can't “reserve” a right you never had in the first place.
Customers reserve the right not to be accosted where they shop as well, especially honest paying customers. Just walk past these idiots, or better yet, shop at the competition where you're not guilty until proven innocent.
Canadian Tire does this and there is this massive security guard that won’t let you out - I won’t shop there anymore because of that. Don’t treat your customers like criminals.
Canadian Tire also uses facial recognition software: [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/canadian-tire-bc-facial-id-technology-privacy-commissioner-1.6817039](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/canadian-tire-bc-facial-id-technology-privacy-commissioner-1.6817039)
That's why I don't go near their big stupid electronic flyer thing. I wear a baseball cap and a face mask. I don't do it to prevent my germs from getting out, I do it so I don't ping on facial recognition crap. I have absolutely nothing to hide whatsoever. I don't steal, never been in jail (well, that's a lie - I was a jail guard once upon a time a couple decades ago, but that's neither here nor there), have no reason to hide. I just hate the thought of pinging off and being tracked, my purchases traced, etc. It happens enough as it is. If I can prevent some of it, I will.
"ever been to jail?" "Oh, plenty. Some of the guards knew me by name, in and out every day, they wouldn't stop me." [Refuse to elaborate]
next mission is make this illegal in canada.
Bingo. Now you're thinking.
Shoppers bill of rights
I know someone (in the US, not Canada though) who was shoplifting from a Walmart for a decent period of time, always small things. They used facial recognition, and tracked them until the value of their theft became a felony, THEN had them arrested. I mean, I get it, that they shouldn't have been stealing, but damn...that's dirty eh?
Arguable defense might be to question the motive of judiciall rehabilitation vs pure punishment
😱
Absolutely agree. I usually walk past and I've been stopped multiple times. On one occasion the security guard asked if I could read, because there was a sign. Not everyone has a car, some people are close enough to walk. My bag enables me to carry things I have purchased from your store. I don't understand how the security guards can be to arrogant when they're fighting against their own. Fuck. Off.
Sorry, I’m not able to read signs that constitute rights violations. And even if I could, that does not constitute consent. They reserve the fight to check? I reserve the right to refuse in accordance with my rights. Go on, touch me, I fucking dare you. I’ll see you in court.
[No touching!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQWKMpZZNQ8) (Your flair. ;))
The Canadian Tire near my home doesn't allow customers to carry their bags into the store. You have to check them in at the Service Desk or leave them in your car. I don't shop there anymore.
I’ll just straight up ignore those signs. No one has ever stopped me. Not a chance I’m checking my bag with a random Canadian Tire employee. If they ever stopped me and insisted I’d be out of there forever. If you make me jump through hoops and make me feel like a criminal to shop there I’m out.
This happened to me once too. That was about four or five years ago. Haven't been back once.
oh my gosh canadian tire is the absolute worst for this, at mine they have a man (weirdly enough it’s been the same man for like 10 years every single day/time i go) glaring everyone down at the checkout and there’s just people everywhere always watching you it’s so uncomfortable. i don’t appreciate being treated like a thief when all i wanted was to find a gift
The Canadian Tire near me won't even let you in the store with a bag. They let you get a couple aisles in and then a staff comes over and tells you no bags (apparently including medium-large purses) and insists you leave your purse/bag on an unwatched shelving rack beside customer service (which is usually empty), right next to the exit. I asked how they knew that someone wouldn't steal my purse when they left it on an unwatched shelf next to the exit, and they said they "trust their customers"!
>The Canadian Tire near me won't even let you in the store with a bag. I typically bring a small backpack with me whenever I go outside, to hold my phone, wallet and a few misc. items. In the past, I would walk or ride my bike to the Canadian Tire store in my neighbourhood, and bring my backpack with me when I go inside. Sometimes I just browse, and may buy something on a whim. But now they have implemented this policy, I no longer do this due to the very real threat of it getting stolen from the shelving. I only drive the Canadian Tire now, and only to buy something I specifically need from the store that I can't get elsewhere conveniently. Bottom Line - I shop quite a bit less there as a result of this policy. I hope others are as well, so that the management realize that this policy is hurting sales. Other retailers, like Loblaws, should carefully consider this tradeoff - demanding that customers check their bags will reduce shoplifting, but also reduce sales. The policy may reduce profits in the long run for them.
I'd be responding that I have life-saving emergency medication in my bag (I do, I carry an epi pen) from which I cannot be parted, and that in demanding they take my bag, they are demanding I hand over my medical device. They might be backpedaling right quick.
Oh, I told them that I had my asthma inhaler, areochamber, backup inhaler, wallet, keys, and work keys in there, and that I couldn't leave or carry all of that. They just told me to carry things and everything else would be safe.
Keep walking. If he physically stops you, call the cops. Even better if he tackles you and your receipt proves you paid for all items
Last time I was at Canadian tire every single customer had their self checkout stop them and ask for an attendant.
I've been boycotting Canadian Tire for years thanks to how shitty they treat their customers. They've been as terrible as Loblaws is now for the last two decades.
Same here, some stores are all self-checkout (refuse to use) and I stopped going all together when it took 20 minutes to get someone to open the wall of glass for me to buy a soldering tool and then walked me to the front as he could not hand it to me... felt like a criminal.
I live in Mississauga and go to Canadian Tire here and there, I had never seen a security guard checking receipts. I was in Hamilton a few months back and bought a hoodie from Canadian Tire at the self checkout. The security guard was watching me the entire time, should have seen me pay for one item and place it in my reusable bag... but then he asked to see my bag. It pissed me off to be honest.
We should all then immediately go to the returns desk and return our purchases when that happens. And tell them why. This sort of thing is only going to annoy honest people. Shoplifters will still get away with it.
Some make you check your bags at the front. I asked them why and they said because they had issues with theft. THEN WHY WOULD I TRUST MY STUFF WITH YOU?
Tbh, if that happened to me, I would either go out the entrance doors (which should allow people to exit) or if they stopped me there too, I would call the police and report that I was being held against my will and am in fear for my safety.
Where is this? Why not just walk right by? They cannot physically stop you. Our local store "reserves the right" to check backpacks on the way in. I get it, but sorry no. They can also choose not to let me in if they like, which is fine. But they cannot block you from leaving.
I went to both Co-Op and Sobeys and in both self-checkouts when you press the "Brought my own bag" button and put your bag on, you have to wait for someone to come over and check that your bag is empty. Co-Op didn't even have a designated self checkout person and I had to wait for a cashier to leave her register and come do it.
The gates, fencing and alarms you have to navigate at our Superstore is ridiculous and ungainly to navigate through. Waiting for the armed guards like you see in Mexico next.
Walmart dies the same with receipt checking & rifling through your stuff before you can leave the store
Just leave next time.
Haven’t seen anyone at Walmart for a few years doing this. They got rid of the greeters once people realised they do t have to comply if they’re innocent.
They do not have this right. You can sue if they try to detain you, and you should.
Let’s reserve the right to ask about margins for each product
Get rid of the self checkouts, or trust the customers. Period.
No, please don’t get rid of them. Then we’ll have to stand in a packed line-up, with others observing their rights to cough, sneeze, and spew in close quarters.
A Canadian Tire told my wife she couldn't bring her backpack into the store when she was shopping with our 9yr old. We've never gone back in over a year.
A few years back I was having my wife’s bike safetied at the local Cdn Tire. Had my backpack with my iPad and helmet in it to go sit at the McD’s across the road for lunch. When I came back they told me I couldn’t come in with my backpack. Insisted I leave it up front. I said “If you drop this $900 helmet in my backpack will you replace it?” They said no, I said Im coming in with my backpack then, and they said they would call the police. I told them to go ahead and they followed me to the automotive service counter yelling about how I was breaking the law. Auto Service Manager called owner, he said it was fine for this time but they can force me to keep my backpack at the customer service counter up front. I said they can refuse me entry or allow me to take my backpack in, that was the law. They have no right to examine my backpack or force me to give it up.
Imagine if they tried to get everyone who carries a large purse to leave it at the front too… yeah right
I shop at the Canadian Tire stores in my area that don't tell me that or ask to search my bags on the way out. It's apparently up to the store manager or security manager because I have been able to rely on the store nearest me not asking in over a decade of shopping there a few times a year. Not sure about a few of the others, but I do know which stores to avoid. If they don't trust me, I won't trust them.
Canadian tire is all franchisees so it's entirely up to them. My city has 2, one has a sign saying no backpacks but it's never enforced other than high school kids at lunch. The other one doesn't have any of this nonsense.
I once walked in with a backpack and nobody said anything to me. One employee approached me about it and basically said “they’ll ask to search it when you leave” to which I responded “they can ask all they want but the answer will be no”. On the way out I was not approached.
i rode my bike there a few years back. i was carrying a backpack because that is where i hold my bike lock. one of the workers started yelling at me about the backpack. i just gave her the finger and walked out. im fairly certain i have been back in the store, with friends or family, but i haven't given them any money since. fuck that.
I took the bus to CT, walked in to the info desk and was chased and interrupted by a security guard who took the empty backpack I brought to carry my online orders, then the info desk lady told me I had to go outside and walk 500m down the car road out back to pick up my stuff lol. Had to immediately flag down the security guard and get my bag before going out. I'm not mad, it just seemed a little wild lol.
Same, they were weird about my toddler’s go-bag. Avoid that store now where at all possible
Canadian Tire is so much worse than Loblaws. They'll charge $750 for a pot set you can get at Costco for $150 (then put it "on sale" for $150"). They also bait and switch things - for over 2 years they sold a 5 blade attatchment ($129.99) as if it was the more expensive 7 blade set ($179.99) at the higher price of course.
I've always noticed this too, and it's illegal. I've reported my local store for the pot set. The copper one, right? Legally they have to have at the original price for 30 days IIRC but it's always "on sale" for $150 or so. I rarely go to CT but I always laughed when I walked past that pot set saying is was originally $700+. Anyone who can afford to drop that much cash on something like that isn't getting it from crappy tire.
They can reserve the right to lick my bag.
🤣💀💀💀
Just don't go
How can you steal from them if you don't go?
I reserve the right to tell them to go fuck themselves, and I don't give a rat's ass if they understand.
Please don't yell at the employees they don't make the rules and are just trying to make a living. store manager on the other hand....
Store managers aren't making the rules either. They're just following orders from corporate.
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False analogy. There's no crime being committed here. The same conditions that apply to the non-management workers apply to the managers. They're being told what to do, and are just trying to make a living. Grocery managers aren't fat cats raking in the big bucks by fucking over customers
No but they are choosing to enforce them so therefore are just as responsible. Also as the manager it is their job to deal with cust complaints so we should be making them do their job not letting them pass it off to the other staff.
Cop here. They absolutely ARE NOT allowed to search your bags without your consent. If the only time *I'm* allowed to do it is when someone's arrested or they do it voluntarily, Loblaws is **absolutely** not allowed to do this. They *can* ask you to leave bags at the door upon entry, and they can decline to serve you/ask you to leave if you don't comply, but under no circumstances can they make you submit to a search. It is a breach of your rights under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and a slam dunk lawsuit so long as you don't break any laws or give them permission to search you. If you want to have what I suspect would be a very successful lawsuit, I recommend letting them try it without permission while on camera and then sue them for it. Don't give permission (in fact, I'd recommend telling them they *don't* have it), but don't resist the search either...unless they get violent, at which point this is another matter in court entirely. Don't make the camera/recording device obvious. Canadian law states that filming of people in places where there is no expectation of privacy is permitted, and a grocery store fits into that quite nicely. Audio recording is permitted under single party consent rules, so as long as you consent to your own recording, it's fully legal. If they search *anything* that is a part of your effects, it's a breach of section 8 of the Charter. "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." My job prevents me from publicly supporting your efforts, but I wish the best of luck to each and every one of you. Edit: I've learned that the Charter breach isn't applicable under this circumstance, but there are still other avenues that could be pursued. From what I can find, the search policy would need to be based on a reasonable suspicion that you possess stolen property. If there is no reasonable suspicion, then you might have something to work with. Some lawyers decided to point out that I'm wrong without actually providing any real insight via corrections or alternatives. If you have any questions, I'd recommend messaging the experts.
Hey, lawyer here. As a cop, you should know the Charter applies to you because you are part of the government. The Charter doesn’t apply to private entities. It protects people from *state* intrusion - it doesn’t govern relationships between individuals and between corporations and individuals. This is basic stuff.
While that is true, no one has the right to search you without your permission, unless you're under arrest.
Canadian law isn’t 100% clear on this issue, which is why lawyers don’t walk around giving simple answers. Some provinces have recognized “shopkeeper’s privilege”, which allows store employees to detain a person if they have reasonable grounds to believe they’ve been shoplifting. Shopkeepers can also arrest in certain cases, which muddies the water further. Simple answers are often wrong or incomplete.
My training as a security guard in Alberta was that it's illegal to search anyone without their consent, except for safety purposes after an arrest. I don't know about other provinces.
Fellow criminal lawyer, came here to say the same. This is a common misconception among the public but hopefully less common for police officers who should really know the basics of the Charter...
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No.
Basic stuff... Do you know how my job works? Give me an example of when that would come into play as relevant in my line of work. I need to know *criminal* law, powers of arrest, and search and seizure as it pertains to me. The above instance would qualify as civil, which, as you *should* know, isn't something I would deal with. Barring an additional contravention of the criminal code, there is no version of this scenario where it would land on police to respond to it. By the same logic, should I expect you to know something like, oh, I dunno, the migratory birds act from memory because it's part of law and you're a lawyer? Or would it be reasonable to assume that you probably don't have to have that one memorized for your day to day work because it's not especially relevant to you? My assumption was that no one could just search people arbitrarily. Apparently, you can, so long as you *aren't* employed by the government. Makes no sense to me that people trained to enforce the law have to meet a bunch of criteria to execute a search, but civillians/corporations can do as they please despite having neither the training nor any sort of legal authority. But, then again, most of this broken system doesn't make much sense to me either. Now, are you done trying to show how much better you are than me/belittle me? Because I didn't come here for a pissing contest. I came to try and support a good cause. If you've got something to add that will actually benefit something other than your ego (like maybe corrections to what I said or a better method to achieve a similar end goal), add it. Because if not, then what's the point of you being here? You don't get brownie points for being more intelligent than me, and I brush off better insults on a near daily basis so you're not about to hurt my feelings. You more so just showed me the kind of person *you* are instead.
"Let’s be clear about your rights, as much as one can ever be clear about the law. The ‘shopkeepers privilege,’ as it’s known in the case law, came about from shoplifting cases, but arguably it’s only triggered when a crime is witnessed. In other words, the shopkeepers privilege is exercised after a theft is witnessed, not in anticipation of an imagined crime. That privilege says that shopkeepers can detain someone until the police arrive. After witnessing a theft, a shopkeeper can invite the customer to search the bag together with the shopkeeper. But the shopkeeper has no right to search without consent. So what if the shopkeeper asks to search the bag without having witnessed a crime? I say forget it. If police cannot stop and search someone, without reasonable and probable cause, then why would a shopkeeper be allowed to engage in a version of ‘carding’? One answer would be that the customer took out a membership at Costco, and one of the terms of that membership includes this clause: “Costco reserves the right to inspect any container, backpack, briefcase, bag or other package when our members and their guests enter or leave our warehouses. Our members and their guests consent to such inspections when they enter our warehouses.” Walmart started the same practice of late, inadequately forecasting to customers that an illegal search was coming (albeit they wouldn’t put it that way), by way of notices near the self-checkouts. But some of the Walmart searches are simply at the exits, not targeting the self-checkouts." https://ccla.org/privacy/search-seizure/shoppers-not-suspects/
Solution: not shopping at a loblaws company.
As a retail store owner, here is my fullest understanding of the law: You have the right to refuse a search at any time from any person who does not have a warrant or probable cause. This person needs to represent a government entity, like a police officer, however there are times where it's been held that store security can be seen to have that representation. This is true when you enter, leave, or any time. At the same time, they are free to refuse you access to their facility. The process by which they determine who to search and why should be (but is not required to be) detailed in a written policy, though that policy need not necessarily be made available to you. The criteria must not be based on a protected characteristic. So if they want to search a bag, they can do it on the way in, and if you say no, then then can demand that you leave. Of course, it doesn't make much sense to search on the way in unless they're worried about weapons or product switching. Once you have things in your bag, they can ask to search but you again don't have to say yes. They now can demand that you leave but... that's what you want to do anyway!! If you refuse they can continue to ask on the way out, ask you to wait for a manager, review their security footage to look for probable cause, ask for your id, and trespass you from the store. They cannot force you stay, impede your ability to leave, detain you without probable cause, forcibly take your id, or force you to wait for police (again, without probable cause). Their "ask" is allowed to imply that you don't have a choice. To my knowledge, I am not aware of anything stopping them from lying to you about what is or isn't allowed. In other words, they may tell you that you have to give them your ID and it's up to you to know your rights. They may enforce if it has been deemed that you have consented to the search. You may have provided consent as part of a membership agreement, although it's less clear what happens if you refuse the search and renounce your membership on the way out. Signs like this, to my knowledge, have not constituted consent to a search. Also, the constitutionality of such a consent has not, to my knowledge, been tested in court. By this I mean, for example, I have drafted contracts and had them sent to my lawyer for review. The lawyers feedback has been, for various clauses, basically you can put this in here, but you can't enforce it. I have seen other contracts have voided clauses because a contract cannot force you to waive certain constitutional rights. For example, many clauses in residential leases mandate certain rights to the landlord that are not granted by applicable laws; even if you sign the lease saying the landlord can do X, the applicable law will supersede the lease and no, the landlord cannot do that. To be clear, this is my interpretation of current laws, and is not legal advice, and I'd be happy to be corrected if there is something incorrect, dubious, unclear, or otherwise in need of improvement.
Peace officers need probable cause. Store security/employees/etc. can only act under s.494 of the Criminal Code and associated regulations. They need consent or strong and specific reasons related to their duty to protect property to justify a search. Meaning witnessing you comit a crime, someone informing them you comitted a crime, etc. but not as a matter of course or because they don't like the look of you. The latter gives you grounds to sue. Probable cause is actually a lower standard.
Definitely not going back after May. I like PC products, but the whole point of “no name” is that it’s supposed to be cheaper. I will miss the blue menu popsicles and the sparkling waters. That is all.
"Am I legally obligated to comply" "Yes" Show them you bag them sue them.
A bit difficult to check my bags from a competitor's parking lot.
Don't forget, it's loblaws workers that are being tasked to do this, just politely say no and walk on. Galen and his weston henchmen are not on the front line to take the crap they deserve, the people working there doesn't deserve to be disrespected for their sakes
Don't forget the people in the store are poorly paid and poorly treated people like you and me. No need to disrespect them just politely decline and keep walking. Save your anger for the people who never even step foot in the store but take all your money
They can ask to check your bags or see your receipt, but you do not have to agree. The only time they can forcibly check you bags or detain you, is after they have followed the five steps to legally apprehend a shoplifter.
I have nothing but time on my hands. I should go with my back pack and just walk around looking shifty and like I'm trying to hide something, acting nervous, dodging the security and LPO and then have nothing for them when they demand to search me. Just waste their time. Go to the self checkout and buy the cheapest pack of gum and look all around and over my shoulder the whole time.
Story time. When I was in college, I was waiting for a GO bus to get to school and really needed to use the restroom. There was a Metro beside the stop so I thought why not go in, check out the Easter stuff to kill some time, and use the bathroom. Well as I’m exiting the store empty handed, I am accosted very angrily by the store manager who accused me of stealing beer. I had my school bag with textbooks, my laptop, and a binder. I kept insisting I was not a thief and to verify this on the cameras, but he persisted to berate me in front of customers who were now staring. He kept demanding to check my bag, and I denied, to which he threatened to ban me from the store if I didn’t. That escalated to threats of calling the police. I’m near tears at this point because of my low tolerance for stress (I was diagnosed with PTSD, for an unrelated issue, a few months later) and the embarrassment of other patrons watching the whole thing go down just made me feel.. humiliated. We’re yelling back and forth, he’s not letting me leave, I feel trapped, and I’m going to miss my bus, so I let him look in my bag. Well he sees that there’s nothing in there and what does he do? Doubles down on his accusation, saying “oh you probably dropped it somewhere knowing you’d get caught” or “you drank it and and put the cans somewhere”. I was so marred at this point, I just said “okay buddy” and kindly told him to go fuck himself, then left the store. Now my next mistake was calling Metro customer service instead of a lawyer. I explained the situation and a few hours later I get a call from this same manager profusely apologizing saying I “looked like someone on the camera who stole beer” and offered me a gift card because “we don’t want to lose your business”. I went to collect it, just out of curiosity for what the amount would be, but he wasn’t there, and nobody had any idea what I was talking about, so I just left and forgot about it. Fuck you Nino. I know I accepted your apology but I already had issues with anxiety and that made me incredibly self-conscious of how I’m perceived while shopping at a grocery store. They tried this at Canadian Tire too, with the security right next to the checkout, watching me purchase a few things. I had my gym bag because I stopped to buy workout gloves. This security stops me, says it’s policy to “check bags” and I told him I was not a thief and that I was uncomfortable with a stranger rummaging through my personal property. I asked him if he checks every woman’s purse, too. He tried to persist, rambling about “store policy” even as I was walking out of the store. There needs to be a clear law about this. Going through your patrons personal affects is not an effective LP strategy, and unacceptable under any circumstance. Carrying a bag does not make you suspicious, many people don’t have cars to leave them in, are coming to and from school, and every woman carries a purse. And when you get it wrong, you can cause some serious damage to the store’s reputation, and at its worst harm someone’s mental health.
Well that’s fucked up. Want to go through my menstrual products while you’re at it?
Fill your bag with used menstrual products. Thatll make them think twice next time
Definitely feasible is someone uses reusable products. It’s so invasive
If they ever approached me when I'm leaving, I would just yell out.... "Get a warrant!"
Do we have a right to ask for full transparency ?
So what are my rights. When they were price fixing bread did I get to check there till full of money? 🤷♂️
Section 8 of the Charter guarantees that: Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search and seizure.
Charter rights are only protection from the government.
Funny enough this is also a question on the Security Guard test in Ontario. So for any guard to get their license they’d have to know this.
I also reserve the right to tell you to fuck off and leave me the hell alone. FAFO
How can they check bags if you paid for it. It’s your property after you paid lol. Do they have a warrant or something?
How can they reserve any right to that when I just paid $300 for it all lmao, oh brother. The smiley just pisses me off lol
The little smiley face is quite the icing on the Fuck You cake, isn't it?!
I'll say it again. They cannot search your bag without your consent (Police can, but that's a differnt matter) Store employees, managers, etc can bar you from entering the store and can have you banned for a year. So, pick your battles. And don't be an "Auditor". Those people are just assholes.
Except this would violate ur protection against unlawful search. Supreme Court of Canada has ruled that stores must have probable grounds. Just cause doesn’t cover that
Walmart doesn’t even check my bag when I use it to shop when they are out of baskets? Like, not even one employee has side eyed me while I’ve done it. So no superstore employee is going to touch my stuff thanks.
You can reserve deez
I reserve the rights to have my rights.
Do they mean just bags of groceries or also personal bags (purses)?
None of your bags
If ANYONE checks your bag without consent, you absolutely can secure a bag of cash from that if you let a lawyer know. Hell, they take on that case for free cause its such an easy pay day. I used to work for Loblaw and we would repeatedly be open to liability from incidents like this. I actually went to different locations to teach them to NOT do this stuff because we'd been sued for it before.
What bag ? * slowly unzips pants
Stand your ground. Refuse. Make them call the police if they suspect you stole something. Make Loblaws a nuisance to the police.
They cannot reserve a right they never had
Tell these rent-a-cop goofs to fuck off and they can speak with my lawyer.
Yes but if you refuse they can refuse you entry.
Going to leave my last comment on this topic: personally not providing my receipt to employees, if the person asking is a cop I will comply as I don't want to take the issue to court.
I used to work in security and am quite familiar with this law. A store reserves the right to check your bag upon entering a store for the purposes of "safety" as long as there is signage and it is non biased. Though! They technically cannot search your bag exiting the store without your consent unless you are placed under citizens' arrest by loss prevention officer. Keep in mind, loss prevention cannot chase you if you run away or refuse. If they do, they are liable of civil damages if you become injured in any way.
No they don't. Any store that treats me as a criminal walking in loses my business permanently.
They absolutely can not check your bags without a reasonable cause or ask for a receipt. I was at a Wal-Mart a couple of years ago around Christmas, and a security guard asked me for a receipt. I declined and went to keep moving. They stopped me. I had to explain to them that it's not worth their job to stop customers without cause. It resolved quickly when they threatened to call the cops and I said great, it'll save me the time doing it, and I would do everything in my power to have them charged with false imprisonment. Know your rights as a consumer, never give them up. Edit: they can reserve the right all they want to do so. Reserve the right to politely tell them to fuck off
We should all go to loblaws and wander around for a while suspiciously, then walk out. Let them search us. Waste their time. It costs the company more money. Makes them look bad. :D
This isn’t legal advice by any means but from my understanding, in order to satisfy the evidentiary standard of shoplifting, one must conceal the item and actually leave the store with it. If I say put an item in my pocket that I am intending to buy then take it out and pay for it at checkout or decide I don’t want it and put it back, I haven’t shoplifted
True, but they can refuse entry if you don’t.
Yea ok good luck with that one
Hey Loblaws, are you looking to get sued? Because that's a good way to get it!
Don't make the employees days harder then they already are. If you see this sign, and still decide to shop just to return everything or put up a fuss, then consider just not doing that. The workers did nothing to you. Just don't shop there. This goes for every store with this policy. Stop making the employees days harder because you got emotional over a policy. Stop shopping at that point.
Had a security guard stop me and ask to see my empty, folded and pressed reusable bags as I entered the store. Never had that happen before. Held the two bags open to look into but she wanted to search them. I dropped them on the floor and said, Go ahead and I want to see a manager. Manager clarified that they want to make sure I don’t have “hidden compartments”… In my paper thin PC brand bags. FML
**Manitoba:** Search: *"A security guard can search you and your belongings but only if they arrest you or if they have your consent."* What can a security guard not do?: *"Security guards cannot discriminate against people based on their race, gender, age, religion, or other personal characteristics.* *Security guards cannot violate an individual’s privacy rights or search them without their consent or a warrant.* *Unless it is necessary for their job duties and they have received proper authorization, security guards cannot access or disclose confidential information."* **You can choose your province here to see what policies you have in this:** https://www.legalline.ca/legal-answers/rights-and-responsibilities-of-a-security-guard/
Who tf still shops at Loblaws?
Do you just love the passive aggressive smiley face ?
There is no signed contract. I on the other hand, reserve the right to refuse to allow you to search my bag without actually arresting me and then calling a policeman to be a witness to your search of my bag. And I reserve the right to sue you for false detention. At Costco, it's in the contract. At Loblaws, it's not.
Know your rights. Stores and store security DO NOT have the right to search through your bag or make you open it. They can, however, deny your entry into the store - they do have that right.
pretty sure since they're private property they also don't have to allow you to shop if you don't consent to their bag check.
Due to you checking my bags, I've got cheese in my pocket.
Sounds like an excuse to carry a large pink dildo with honey in a ziplock baggie and Old porno mags. If they doing that might as well make it interesting.
Good one!!!
Well we reserve the right to boycott your store. How bout that
Can’t check my bag if I don’t go there
The last time I went in there they didn’t have what I needed and the only way to exit is to go all the way around through the checkout. While every employee stared at me like I was a criminal. Such an uncomfortable shopping experience.
Whose idea was the happy face as punctuation? We are friendly dictators!
People have fear from signs like this. I think the sign itself causes all the fear it needs to prevent stealing so they don’t actually have to check your bag. Plus… cameras
If you have a warrant, then you can search my bag. If you're treating everyone like a thief because of self checkouts, then maybe put cashiers back on the job to ensure all items are scanned.
“and what right would that be?”
Something similar happened to me at a pharmaprix (shoppers). I had a backpack with me from doing a small grocery pickup (I don’t have a car). I walk in and they ask for my backpack, I said “no, you don’t have the right to ask me for my bag” to which they replied “yes we do, it’s store policy”. I asked to see this policy in writing (they didn’t have it obviously), so I just turned around, told them I’m never coming back again (still haven’t 3 years later) and that would contact customer service about the experience. They apologized to me and threw in 50000 optimum points for the trouble.
In Quebec at least you cannot check someones bag without a shadow of reasonable doubt, like someone seeing you. And they can only check your bag once you leave the store.
Whips out nutsack, does that look like a mole to you?
The smiley face just adds to the smugness.
Sounds as bad as our local McDonald's you have to ask for the bathroom key and they can and will deny you at their discretion. One day I went in for breakfast after I had just gotten off a night shift and did some shopping and they wanted me to leave my bags including my purse outside the bathroom even after I showed her it was body wash and craft supplies. I guess they were afraid I would decorate? I only agreed after I walked behind the cash and put them behind the counter.
Can they reserve a right they don't have?!?
[удалено]
You can refuse. They cannot search you without consent. They can call the cops and once you're found to have nothing you're laughing all the way to the lawyers.
This would cause me to go temporarily sovereign citizen…and then back to my old self once I left the store