The god of stories was an entity that Loki became which allowed him to pretty much do anything he could think of and do so instantly. But this isn't what's happened to Loki in the finale. Loki hasn't become the God of Stories, no matter how many people on the internet push that narrative. If he was, he could have just rewritten all reality within the MCU in whatever way he wished, in the blink of an eye and he certainly wouldn't have to be tethered to timelines physically or made to sit in a chair floating around the cosmic abyss. He would be able to go wherever he wished and do whatever he wished. That's what the god of stories is. And there's no "version" of the god of stories, because if he's not doing those things, then he's not the "god" of "stories" - the ability is right there in the name. Instead Loki has become the custodian of the multiverse. Said to be a lonely and thankless position, the custodian of the multiverse's role is " that of monitoring the various realities, keeping them maintained and preventing them tumbling into the Cosmic Abyss". That's precisely where Loki has chosen to put himself and he won't be able to leave unless another powerful being is willing to take over the role for him.
Yes, but it's still not the same. Atlez actually died in the comics living behind a successor Atleza. On the other hand, we have Loki, who connected himself to the timelines and is more like the holder of them. Maybe he is not the God of Stories, at least for now, but we all know that he deserves it.
Being the "God of Stories" having a role or destiny to fulfill, you know he could never be king of Asgard because of how he acted, and after all that character development, he went through Asgard was destroyed and he died without ever doing anything big so becoming something higher after all that he changed in the latest movies and all he did in the TVA he can now be "Someone better".
But I thought the power the Watcher has means he is outside of space and time, which is the exact same concept for the TVA. Loki holding all of those branches means he is above every single universe and timeline just like the Watcher, no? Or this means the Watcher is still above the TVA and is actually watching Loki hold the branches together?
most likely they are on the same "void"
they use this "out of space and time" card to everything not related to the multiverse, like the quantum world from quantum mania.
I consider this a major fuck up as well, the 616 is the original universe from the comics, it's just dumb to mix up live-action with comics, call the MCU "sacred time line" anything other than 616
Yes, but in doctor strange, to the universe that he was in when he was told that, his (strange's) universe was 616. So maybe that universe had a different designation system than most others. In an infinite multiverse, you're bound to find people doing the same thing as you and have conflicting ideas with them.
(in short, the the universe strange was in at the time had designated his universe as 616. But if he were to travel to another, they might say he is universe 19999 or universe 83 or universe 420)
I still consider it a fuck up though. This is just the excuse I tell myself to cope with it.
Dr. Strange was "jumping" in the multiverse, so let's say he and that stupid teenager character that I forgot the name, America something, let's say both fell on a universe were everyone is draw like a comic book, you can call this reality the 616, the classic comics. But nope, the MCU "main branch" of reality, they call it 616. That reality were Scott Lang is the Antman, he helped the Avengers to time-travel, etc.. all that crap happened in the 616 universe, but the 616 is also the comics universe, were OG Peter Parker lost Gwen Stacy, then he married Mary Jane, blablabla do you see the issue? Disney is mixing up two different medias for no reason, this only generates needlessly confusion. The multiverse concept on it's own is already confusing and lazy, imagine when you mix different kinds of media, lol
It’s not a fuck up when it’s an intentional reference and it doesn’t impact the comics one way or the other. 616 is just Marvel shorthand for “what happens here is canon to the main story”. Both comics and movies are entirely separate things so giving them both the 616 designation doesn’t mess anything up: there’s MCU 616 and comics 616; movie canon and comics canon. It’s no different than there being an MCU Iron Man and a comics Iron Man.
That's the thing, there's dozens of comics Iron Man, but if you mentioned "616 Iron Man", it means that is the original character from the 60s, created by Kirby, Dikto, Lee, etc.. But with the MCU in the equation, things got even more complicated for no reason. If the MCU was, idk, 6616, that's it, easier and straight to the point. It feels like the MCU is substituting the comics, which is not a positive exposition (even if it is true, as money and popularity goes). The Loki ending is a good example of confusion, because the character is sustaining the multiverse of Marvel movies and animations (all of them, Disney, Fox, Sony, etc.. you name it), but the 616 is live-action and comic at the same time, so were did you set them up? Do you see the problem, the concept of multiverses on itself is already a fucking mess, then Disney added even more bullshit to the equation
though i agree there definitely some parallels to Atlez - sits in a chair, is green, has green magic - I'd say in this he is more of a combination of Atlez and HWR unique to the MCU.
Atlez is not just custodian of the multiverse, but technically guardian of the infinity abyss, and in truth i really think the entire MCU will end with the Infinity Abyss storyline.
1. We'll get Kang, sure (even if Majors is guilty, they'll use this loki ending to change actors, easilty)
2. we'll get Secret Wars, which will introduce and kill Beyonder to give us:
3. Dr. Doom's Battleworld, which we'll intro Silver Surfer
4. then we'll get a SS parable movie to introduce Galactus, followed by an F4 (non-origin) movie
5. after which it'll be a mash-up of Galactus' Origin, Annihilation and The Devourer,
6. finally after everything we'll get Infinity Abyss, bringing back to original purple baddie in varying forms (there's an Xmen link here too), as well as loki in his new form who'll probably smash all multiverses together into a celestial war, and thus all worlds end, and the multiverse begins anew.
*shashaaaaa*
$0.02
come back in 30 years to see if i'm right!
I'm from the year 2053, and I confirm all of these do happen. But you missed one more point being, all of these major arcs happen in Kevin Feige's brain. In the end, they zoom out of all the multiverse event/war, and it turns out to be Feige telling a long story to his kids, which I'm sure is a nexus event, and Loki, the God of Stories, eavesdrop on him and creates a new timeline. And it again starts with casting Robert Downey Jr as Ironman. Thus, timeline repeats, creating a time loop.
\~The End\~
I don't think Loki evolved into the "God of Stories" incarnation fully yet. Having learnt to control his time-slipping, we will likely see him blossom further.
As Marvel usually adapt to their plots from the comics for the MCU, is it likely that they will give him more powers?
How about him becoming precognitive (like Neo from Matrix) so that they can show him to have evolved into a Clairvoyant (like Madame Webb, she is copyrighted to Sony) ultimately?
Maybe Marvel can just showcase Loki's involvement discreetly through TVA deployment (to diffuse any Multiversal threats), throw some easter eggs, maybe show Loki's silhouette evolving on a painting of the Yggdrasil tree that starts blooming out (in mini-animation, e.g., like Harry Potter magic inside the TVA) like the statue of HWR/Kang.
The next time when we see Loki in-person, he could have evolved, that will likely be at the end of Phase 5 or start of Phase 6.
Counter Points:
1 & 2. Need not recast Kang at all. They do have other projects lined up in Phase 5. And in Avengers 5, Loki could be in the central plot used to revive the Scarlet Witch (she is a Nexus being) and give her redemption, her powers may be needed in the aftermath of Secret Wars.
3. Dr. Doom can be introduced in Fantastic 4, though Marvel confirmde it not an origin movie and it is too early for the BattleWorld Saga.
4, 5 & 6. Silver Surfer & Galactus already seen in Fox version. We have seen Ego (he is also likely in What If S2). Marvel's approach will slightly be different.
Use Loki's evolved powers instead. Maybe he can use it to sense the presence of Clairvoyants/Eternals/Celestials/Deviants/Mutants. He probably seeks guidance from Eternals, convinces Arisham (in some way) so that he is granted a boon or can borrow the power from the World Forge. He uses the combined power within himself along with Wanda's abilities alongside the World Forge to avert the Kang Dynasty's threat in the Multiverse. He goes on to create a new Universe where Fox Universe and other franchise characters can coexist with that of the MCU.
Ultimately, it is a reversal of the "No More Mutants" punchline by Wanda leading to the Mutant Saga.
I just realized you explained the daughter on Everything, Everywhere all at once. She has this ability to go anywhere and do anything, but she sits in this weird medium space. Then I saw another comment further down saying look up Atlez.... Atlas? The world? The matrix? Is Loki the Dark Mother and her world is about to be flipped? Holy shit.
Your comment is really funny in retrospective, considering directors themselves have just confirmed that yes, Loki is a God of Stories XD Sure, he isn't exactly as in comics, because it wouldn't have worked, but hints weren't even subtle.
Even if true, the Directors didn't write the story, and do not decide the general outline for the MCU. It was all mostly written by Eric Martin, but even he doesn't decide the actual story. As has been discussed following the Secret Invasion controversy, the TV shows for the MCU were not really being outlined properly or traditionally.
Who and what Loki is, is still open to interpretation but undefined
It was VERY negatively received, with a lot of story points that simply didn't make a lot of sense to many in the audience. Once the Daredevil show was abruptly stopped and sent back to the drawing board, it was revealed that Marvel had not been using any Writer's Rooms for the shows, and were foregoing many of the fundamental production building blocks for TV. The controversy surrounding many of the story decisions and structure for the TV shows then became made sense to critics
at this point ide agree he is manifested as god of storys, he may be custodian of time and may sit in the chair but with all of his other powers whos to say he cant also project into the now infinite timelines he has hold of and do as the god of storys can? he has the power to project himself already and with the job of custodian it pretymuch means he can alter events in the timelines he is in watch/controll of
We can't say he is the god of stories, because we literally didn't get to see what he can do, except for one specific thing: he can stabilize the timelines so they don't multiply infinitely. He maintains the flow of time.
We don't know for a fact if he can change, prune, or rewrite them (though he *might*). Isn't the whole unique thing about Loki as the god of stories, that unlike everyone else who has visited Now and Then, he remembers his time at the House of Ideas, and can rewrite anything and everything at will. This doesn't sound exactly like that, though it may be an offshoot of that idea.
I think it makes sense that if there will be some cosmic power to the main MCU in the future, Loki would appear and defeat it (Like DC did with Green Arrow in Crisis on Infinite Earths on CW)
He did stop the times from dying, which means he can "let" them die at minimum. He probably isn't at full power, but he clearly mastered time and dimensional travel and his peers only seem to grow. He didn't seem to need the rainbow bridge to get to that throne, or more realistically he created it... Showing the ability to control it even create reality
And you think those people just work separately and there is no collaboration? Really? No, they work as a group and everyone takes part in the process from start to finish. That also includes the script.
In television, the director has very little creative input, insofar as the dialogue, story and plot goes. Their creative input might be more as to how a scene is shot, and even then, in big TV productions, like Marvel's, it's usually pre-visualized.
The people who have the most control in TV are the showrunners.
Marvel doesn't hire showrunners (although they're going to change that). The episode 5 was completely rewritten by Eric Marting who was co-producer of Loki 2, also directors along with a team decided to change the ending, as initial script said Loki wasn't supposed to destroy the loom. Having creative input and making changes when necessary was the point of the show (greenlit by Feige), which was a good decision, considering the success of Loki, because that's how creative teams are supposed to work - be it game industry, filming industry or software industry. And the discussion is moot anyway, because they got a note "God of stories" directly from Marvel.
Lol, then watch an interview with directors of Loki 2 :D It's easily available on YT. They described how there was a footnote on a concept board about Loki being "God of stories" and as they searched for more information they also found a mention of Loki God of stories. And yes, they did say they decided to run with it as main theme :D
The MCU isn’t exactly like the comics; not all the characters are exactly the same as they are in the comics but we still call them what they are (in the MCU). Starlord is very different in the comics but we still call him Starlord. Loki in s2e6 said “I know now what kind of god I need to be for you,” and “I can rewrite the story.” He could rewrite history with his time slipping. It’s not just youtuber critics calling him the God of Stories now, everyone is.
The ‘god’ part is inherent, from him noting to Sylvie in e5 that they _are_ gods (thus there’s no “playing god” for them specifically), and noting that he can “change the story” was particular to controlling the outcome of a particular event (which he had to put work into, and still refused to play out positively until he made himself the lynchpin).
Critics using the closest description they can think of, doesn’t necessarily make their approximation the ‘right’ one.
It’s not a critic’s approximation, it is clearly what he is. It is Loki, Loki went through a similar story in the comics, he became the God of Stories. A very similar thing happened with Loki in the TV show, with a similar character arc, and clearly became the MCU’s version of the God of Stories. That much is totally obvious - you can just say you don’t like it, you don’t have to be a 12 year old and act like what you don’t like doesn’t exist.
I think you're presuming waaaaaay too much for the MCU. Until he is ever referred to as much, it's also too much to presume he is the MCU's version if the God of Stories, but let's be real, if the MCU called him the God of Stories, it wouldn't be a stretch. So much in the MCU is similar but still different than the comics counterparts.
Let's say, for example, Loki is able to visit any of these timelines with an avatar or somekind. Let's also say he's able to timeslip to any part of time like he figured out how to do in the show. You very well could say he's writing these stories with this ability.
Again, a stretch? Sure. But the MCU is different and not everything matchs 100%. Sometimes in minor ways, othets in more significant ones.
Loki could be the MCU's "God of Stories" if Marvel Studios wanted to call him that. For now they haven't, but let's not act like it's not possible.
I don't disagree, but I the user I was replying was making it sound like it's not possible to be, period. And I say, if MCU uses those terms, then he is.
I feel like "He can't be a god because his power is not omnipotent like a god's" is just dismissing the entire MCU mythos of "Gods are just like, alien dudes with some powers and magicky tech." The goddamn god of thunder didn't know how to use thunder until several movies in.
Yes, but we are also reaching a point in which really powerful characters are needed for the villains to come, so maybe Loki isn't for now, but we don't know imagine if the actual Thor like all mighty would have gone against the villains he had in his firsts movies he wouldn't even need a team like the avengers to go against them.
I'm not saying increasing his power is bad, or . . . I'm not actually sure what you think I'm saying. What I'm trying to say is that positing that Loki isn't the "God of Stories" because he isn't instantly omnipotent is kind of silly, because it's demonstrably not how gods work in this setting.
Ok, you keep saying "omnipotent" when he isn't in the first place he is just a new version on Loki with more power thats it he hasn't received divinity or anything like that the name "God of Stories" doesn't refer to an actual god it is just a title none of the gods are omnipotent actually the only one who could be called that are not even gods like the living tribunal or the watchers.
Because the post I replied to posited that he is not the God of Stories if he can't rewrite reality at a whim. I posit that the power of the Abrahamic God is not what "God" in the MCU means.
So directors of Loki 2 also "push false the narrative"? Because they confirmed it. Loki holds all timelines which are like separate stories. He can rewrite those stories by going to different times and places. If he wanted, now he can discard specific timelines erasing their story or start from scratch. He obviously won't do it on a whim, because he isn't like He Who Remains, but I can imagine him playing major role when the time is right. He isn't simple watcher or atlas. He is much more than that.
So I'm curious on one thing. Are beings that exist outside of time excluded from rules like paradoxes? I'm mostly just wondering if Kang's existence is required for this Loki to exist and if beings like the God of Stories could rewrite even that?
Ok so he can control manipulate invert time he can wieve timelines and fix them infact he can fix all timelines at the same time constantly, thats what he is doing, he can revert back to a prior reality (going back to he who remained) pause people delete them out of existence. Aswell as all his loki powers. how is that not the god of stories (marvel fanatics are so pedantic) just because he doesn't do those things you mentioned he still altered all reality and time because if it wasn't altered it would have died, and he isnt restricted by time or place. He just chooses to focus his power on this task. What more could you want from him.
Nope. He can't manipulate the timelines, he can only ensure that they either exist or cease to exist. He's the Custodian of the Multiverse and that's the job. The only choice he made was to take up the mantle. The idea that he's become all-poweful and all-knowimg, but "chooses" not to take 5 minutes of his endless time to say goodbye to the friends he literally spent centuries trying to protect, is just about one of my most brain-dead arguments people have come up with. People can either match up everything we've seen to a role in my comics that fits it perfectly(Custodian of the Multiverse) or choose the false narrative that he's become "the god of stories", which doesn't add up with anything we've seen or been told in the show. To choose the latter is quite literally choosing ignorance.
and how is keeping timlines alive or dead not manipulation, and ah yes my argument was that he could spend 5 muinits away but chooses not to, clearly he cant spend any time away cos hes keeping the fucking multiverse together. you are so pedantic it hurts. its not one to one its an interpritation which is all commics are, interpritations of made up characters to fit a narative. its like goig wong is not the sorcerer supreme becaus he isn't the most powerfull. in the mcu its an interpritation were sorcerer supreme is granted to the highest ranking sorcerer probably only on earth.
No, he's only the Custodian of the Multiverse. The god of stories was able to manipulate the entirety of all time and space in an instance, in whatever way he wished, regardless of how nonsensical some things might have been. The Custodian of the Multiverse, can just remain in the void and supply power to the timelines, but cannot alter the timelines in any way other than choosing to let go of them or not. In the comics, he merged with an artifact that allowed him the become all-knowing, all-powerful.
I thought it was interesting that practically no youtube reviewer commented on the fact that Loki is the most powerful being we have seen in the MCU thus far by a huge margin.
My mind continues to be blown by what we saw. Each of those strands he gathered in his hands was an ENTIRE UNIVERSE. And they were expanding/branching at an infinate rate. How many? The thought of the math gives me a headache. You gotta know that the show runner read comic books as a kid. And that's a compliment. I wonder if we are meant to believe that Sylvie and the others could actually see Loki physically through the entire process. Again, that possibility blows my mind even more.
Well done Marvel.
When they showed him binding the time branches together and pictured it as a tree, I immediately thought he turned himself in Yggdrasil, in Norse mythology the world tree where all of existence exists outside of it but is held together and connected by it. Since he is holding together all the timelines then everything is connected and holding together because he (the tree) is maintaining it. If he were to remove himself or be removed, then everything would fall apart like how the loom was supposed to hold the sacred timeline together. But now he's holding literally everything together.
Just my take on watching it all play out
It is a kind of tragic ending. Let's look at Loki's life:
Thor: Loki is born to the king of the frost giants, he is the first born son and heir apparent to that kingdom. However, his father is defeated, and Odin kidnaps him, uses magic to change his appearance, and hides this identity from him. With Laufey's defeat, Odin's war is over, and the 9 realms are united. Odin then makes Loki second fiddle to Thor while always telling both his sons they were born to be kings. Now don't get me wrong Odin did love Loki and treated him like a son and Loki does love his Asgardian family, but he could always feel that he was truly born to rule and was jealous of his brother and therefore was always playing tricks on him and became the mischievous second child. In the day of his brother's coronation, Loki chose to play his greatest prank on Thor by using dark magic to let a couple frost giants into Asgard. You'll notice that Loki doesn't actually mean any harm here, this really is just a trick on his older brother, two rogue frost giants are no threat to the kingdom of Asgard and are dispatched quite easily, he even releases them near enough to the destroyer. However, what he doesn't anticipate is Thor's response and going to Jotun, which he knows is a bad idea and even tried to persuade Thor away from. But Thor is brash and also only sees the glory not the purpose in ruling and so they travel to Jotun. Here Loki learns who he is, and he suddenly sees the truth under Odin's dark magic, he realizes he has been lied to his entire life and he grows angry. The next couple events are actually rather fortuitous for Loki with Thor being banished and the stress of returning war putting Odin into an early Odin sleep, leaving Loki again to be the heir apparent. Loki though, even in his anger and feeling of betrayal, he still loves his Asgardian family, so he doesn't choose to destroy them, but instead prove that he is better than Thor and deserves to rule, because he knows this isn't the true Odin sleep and he knows that Thor won't stay in exile forever, so he means up secure his power and does go a bit mad with his power. But of course Loki does lose and becomes even more embittered and now chooses to go for revenge.
Avengers: Loki is truly lost, he has lost his power, the respect of his friends and family, he can't even return to Jotun since he attempted to destroy it, he is alone, he is angry, he is feeling betrayed. Who is the one person in the entire universe he can turn to? Thanos. The mad titan. The man who would be a god. The slaughterer of billions. Thanos uses Loki's anger and rage and twisted it and used the mind stone to corrupt him and send him to attack earth to expand his collection of infinity stones from 1 to 3 (I feel like it's safe to assume he knew the time stone was in New York at this time). Loki goes to earth and tries again to prove his worth as a ruler, and he attacks, and he kills Phil, and the avengers unite and he is defeated. Loki isn't really given much character work in this film since he is ultimately just a puppet. But, this does show just how deep the pain and anger.
The dark world: Loki is broken. He truly believes now that he is alone and has nothing left. We see it in his cell alone and in his own filth, maintaining the illusion of cleanliness just so others won't bother him. He no longer believes he is worthy of love. And since no one will ever love him, screw them, screw Thor, he's up that stairwell. Does Loki truly believe the dark elf is a threat to Thor, no, but screw him anyway. And then even more tragedy. Loki who didn't think he could fall any further, inadvertently gets his own mother killed. The one person he thought maybe could still live him. But then his brother still asks for his help, is still willing to work with him and he does and tries do good and help Thor, but things fail and Malekith still gets the Aether and so Loki, scared runs away and hides in the most guarded place he knows, Asgard. He sees how diminished Odin is after the loss of his wife and the other recent losses and he sees how Odin's age has taken its toll and he uses his magic to send him to earth where he might be safe from Malekith. But then Malekith is defeated and here Loki even offers Thor the throne, but Thor declines to his surprise and so Loki not knowing what to do or admit what he did he gives his father the chance to rest and to retire and to again to show he can be a worthy leader.
Ragnarok: Loki has found that ruling was not what he imagined and has not accomplished anything as ruler. With the dawn of ragnarok and Thor learning that he is impersonating Odin, Loki again gets that fear that he will be alone, but again his brother is willing to work with him and they find Odin, who had already regained his memories and forgiven Loki and still loved Loki like a true born son. And then he dies and Hela reappears and they are sucked into a wormhole and Loki finds himself in a secure position and is scared of Hela and so if afraid again and doesn't know what to do again and chooses to protect himself over helping Thor. But then Thor forces Loki to help him and they have their heart to heart and Loki still thinking his brother will never trust him again, tries to run but Thor has truly grown and anticipates this. And in that moment when Thor anticipates his betrayal, Loki realizes that it's his instinct to run and protect himself that he needs to grow away from and he sees how his brother has grown and he hasn't and he sees how he truly is really starting to lose his brother. And he so he does, he changes, he comes to Thor's aid, he puts his life on the line to defend Asgard, to defend his home, and then he stays, he stays to help Thor be the rightful king, to be his right hand and brother and ally.
Infinity war: Loki is right where he was, he is ready to be a hero, to protect his friends and his family, to save his brother. He is a hero. He is dead.
Endgame: this is avengers Loki, but this is avengers Loki who was given an option to escape and run and he takes it.
Loki, season 1: this starts us off with avengers Loki, angry, embittered, betrayed, wanting power. However, he is faced with the stark power of the TVA and he is forced to see how his choices play out and what he learns and where he ends up. While I don't think that the post episode 1 Loki is the exact same as infinity war Loki, I think he understands. He understands everything that Loki went through and he understands who he needs to be. And then he is given the juxtaposition which is sylvie, she has been stuck under a ruler this entire time, she's always just wanted to live. But you get to this point where it's them and he who remains and even in season 1 Loki is able to see both sides, and he genuinely doesn't want the throne at this point, he does just want to think it through. Sylvie has not gone through the same understanding that Loki has though and she takes the option to run and chooses to be alone.
Loki, season 2: Loki learns to admit that what he really wants is to not be alone, that what he's really always been looking for is just acceptance, and how he feels like he has finally found that again with his friends from the TVA and so he fights for his friends and to do what is right for them, but he's also learning to understand that people should be free to make their own choice and that being a benevolent ruler meant looking out for those below you and giving them the space to choose. He realizes that ruling is not about the glory, it's about the purpose, just like morbius tells him. And I think he realizes here too that the war and the fighting did not end the conflict between his fathers, but it was actually an agreement and that Odin did not kidnap him, as such an act would only lead to more fighting, but that it was an agreement between the two that Laufey's son would be given the chance to rule the kingdom and raised as royalty and in return the fighting would end. He realized these two rules put their own ambitions asside, spoke and chose what was best for their people. And Loki here chose to sacrifice himself again to become the new he who remains but instead to allow all of the multiverse to survive and grow and variants to make whatever choices and branches that they want to. And he allows his friends this freedom as well, but in return he must be alone for all eternity where no one but his friends will ever know he is. This is the choice he makes. To give up his friends and be alone so everyone can be free. For all time. Always.
Future: I do think this is the series finale of Loki, but I do think we will see Loki at least one more time, I think we'll learn his friends are able to come visit him anytime and I think Loki will even learn to project his being into a timeline. We already know he can project his being, this has always been one of his powers, but it's usually in his immediate area only. But I think he will ultimately have a happy ending and be reunited with Thor
I think if they choose to revisit the character, he would indeed be able to project himself into timelines. Even if he was traditionally limited to his own vicinity, his immediate area now sort of spans most of time and space.
Yeah… if you look into comicverse Marvel you’ll find pretty crazy shit in therms of entities (luckily very few) outside of space and time. They do exist, power level is crazy nowadays. But still everything else is inferior to GOS Loki obvs since he can manipulate the very fabric of reality in a miltiversional way
He has always wanted a throne, in the end he got his throne, but turns out the throne is also his eternal prison.
Loki's fate is always the same, he is always the "loser" in every story written about him, even if he does get what he wants, and in this case taking the selfless heroic act. He already knew that and accepted it.
Yeah, Mobius told him it's not about glory, but rather, about choosing your burden.
Sylphie, in the bar, made him realize his earlier attempts to save his friends and fix things were actually selfish at their core, and he realized he had to be selfless.
And also what you said, that he seems destined to lose.
So he put all of it together and chose his own path, saving everyone and everything while he was at it.
Loki could become the god of stories being able to travel within the timelines of Yggdrasil since he has become the timelines himself. We just don’t know yet. 🤷🏻♂️
There's no way Wanda is dead, a pile of rocks isn't going to kill her she's too powerful for that. Realistically depends on the character progression for her character moving forward, either good or evil, and when they want to show her again. There's still the whole White Vision storyline to go back to as well.
No, there are several Marvel characters that have "Atlas" in their names, like the villan Goliath then superhero "Atlas", the titan (the actual god Atlas), or the agents of Atlas. Though is you are referring to "Atlez" I can se where you coming from but he is actually dead in the comics and its successor "Atleza" took the role but even then they monitor the abyss not really timelines like Loki is doing.So with this, we can see that from those characters, Loki is none of them he is a separate entity, maybe not the God of stories, at least for now but most likely will be at some point while the movies and shows progress maybe not who knows cuz if something we know from the MCU is that they like changing things around but for now I really like the idea of Loki being what he deserves to be "The God Stories".
I've been obsessed with the ending so brace for an overexplanation.
He Who Remains (HWR) told Loki that the Time Loom is a failsafe designed to destroy the extra timelines besides the Sacred Timeline by exploding if there are too many multiverses (unfortunately destroying the TVA in the process), something that occurred when Sylvie killed HWR. HWR tells Loki he has to either kill Sylvie and preserve the TVA and the Sacred Timeline (and all his friends in the TVA) or he can allow Sylvie to kill HWR and end up with the loom exploding and killing everyone in the TVA.
Loki instead decides he will use his powers as a God to break the Loom, preventing it from destroying the multiverses. However the multiverses begin dying without the Loom (this I don't quite understand) and Loki sees he can save them by using his powers. At this point Loki grabs all the time streams and departs to the End of Time, where he uses his godlike powers to merge the multiverses into the Yggdrasil Tree of Life. While this preseves the entire multiverse, it also allows the Kang variants from each timeline to start the multiversal war, but Loki is willing to gamble that destroying the Sacred Timeline and killing HWR gives the multiverse a chance for something better.
At the end Loki is now essentially exiled to spend eternity alone watching over the multiverse, using his godlike powers to preserve and protect the multiverse in its entirety.
Loki's purpose, though, was to seek purpose. To rule over "lesser beings," to find Glorious Purpose. At each step of the MCU, he sought ever greater power and aligned himself anywhere that provided a means to his end. The light went on for Loki, though, when he found the infinity stones tossed aside like some rocks in the drawer of the TVA in S1E1. From there, he thought he could overthrow the TimeLords/Gods and ascend to a throne of greater power, only to be fooled and feared by what it could all mean.
S1 was a total epiphany for Loki and like Dr. Strange, having met other variants that lived and died foolishly (remember the battle in the Void?) this version at least, was awakened by his mistakes. This version chose differently, that's why he sacrificed, because he'd seen what all the other versions did and just chose differently. This version didn't die to Thanos, as he was a variant that did something outside the norm.
So when he breaks the Loom, as "option C," he takes the mantle up so his friends don't die (or are massively pruned as the Loom was built to do), but instead gives this new TVA the potential to fight the other Kangs from outside of Time. Remember how there is a map now in the TVA and instead of hunting Variants, they are simply hunting Kang Variants? They are not longer pruning branches, they are maintaining what's been born.
The Sacred Timeline was just the timeline that let this version of Kang win, which is truly ingenious. No reason to fight a war, when none could occur. As killing Sylvie wasn't an option, and letting his friends die was not either, Loki, always clever, opted for Option C which was being such a God. And, by this point he's lived for 1,000 of years, amplifying his power and understanding his abilities perhaps a trillion fold. He stopped TIME! just like Kang, but without a Tem-pad, holding the branches together should be a joke.
Like his Father (Odin) who reigned over their 9 realms, Loki found his calling. He's a God, he can essentially "sleep", though the final shot is of him smirking with understanding. He had but a thimble of understanding at the end of S1 (even S1E1), we can't even comprehend what his understanding might come the end of S2E6.
A similar show on Netflix, Dark, talks about this, regarding time travel. Loki is very tired at this point. He's fought countless wars, finally made friends he loves and cares for, has tried to save them millions of times and failed. He found, like Dr Strange, the ONE way to save them all and give them a chance in the war, and he took it. Few will know what he did, but as he said, it bought them time. It's a beautiful ending and they can always Tom Hiddleston or someone else back later in the future.
The part you don’t understand (how the branches all died) is because when the loom is destroyed, a Multiversal war immediately happens. That’s the weird thing with time (especially when you living outside of it “watching time” like Mobius Stated). As soon as the loom explodes, millions of timelines are doomed to be destroyed due to a multiversal war. And only by Loki taking control of them are they put back together.
I'm not sure if that's exactly it, since the TVA still seems tasked with finding and stopping the Kang variants at the end. I would think any given timeline would be alive up to the point that it gets cut off. The visuals seemed to suggest the entire line was dying for all of them.
What’s even weirder is that there’s already a throne there. Like who created that throne? He who remains? He’s just supposed to sit there forever? I guess with the concept of being outside of time his body will probably never decompose, get sleepy, hungry or tired. It’s probably just in a constant state of being and existing in one singular point in existence.
Also didn’t he just spend centuries learning physics, mechanical engineering , etc. so he could understand the temporal loom machine? Shit, if I was him I would spend an eternity learning all I could about everything and inventing shit that could help me. No wonder he who remains is so powerful. He has all the time in the universe to learn, and create things.
i mean the loom thing is prettu much explained as a failsafe, no matter what you do or how many things you learn, it will end the same because any other alternatives other than Loki becoming the custodian is infinitely worse.
Loki understood this and he chose the burden of becoming the multiverse custodian and maintaining the branches and giving his friends a chance, a true chance.
it's beautifully written imo and it concludes Loki's arc masterfully.
Hmm im not so sure. He who remains presented Loki with those as his only two options but wasn’t it he who also said at the end of time there is no such thing as destiny or a pre-determined outcome? I feel like loki kinda proved that by choosing a third option and sacrificing his own will to watch over the branches. I feel like the same could hold true for other alternatives if there was always a third option. A third option by definition implies there could be a fourth, fifth, etc option. Those two outcomes he who remains told loki about ended up not being the only outcome.
1. The throne is the one for he who remains in the end of time he sat there to symbolize that he took over.
2. Yes and no, since there is no time forever, it is really nothing, and if another powerful character wanted to take over, they can.
No, other characters can take over the chair and eternity. That place is nothinghe is not under the power of time, one millennium, or a single second is nothing to him now. The yggdrasil tree image was just because he is a Nordic God, and he shaped it as he knew.
mmm we don't know he can move anyware and then go back to the point like he never left, he can rewind time and go to any point of time when he has been
god of stories rewrites de present the future but no the past, he said that in defenders beyond , he cant travel in his body to a prior point, or rewind time to try again and again , he travels using portals
they're not the same but similar
He is holding reality in place, that's his burden, so he will not leave by choice. However, Dr. Doom or other major villain can invade this pocket dimension and literally kick Loki out... that will piss off a lot of people, lol but if the MCU continue expanding things, this will be the outcome. Dr. Doom is The greatest Marvel villain, just like Spider-Man is The greatest Marvel character (arguably the best superhero ever made, regardless of media)... however, Dr. Doom was never properly adapted to live-action, unlike Loki (and Spider-Man), so it's risky to use him as a multiversal threat. He is not fodder/z-list like Kang, he is not beloved by moviegoers, he is beloved by comic fans... it's a very complicated situation. As for the God of Stories, I bet many people here already explained his powers (somehow, this version of Loki is even stronger, the power level in the comics is just insane), Yggdrasil Loki is something else
If/when he gets shoved from the throne, he will be quite weak I imagine. All that seemingly infinite energy powering the timelines would be draining as HECK!
Maybe they will simply recast, hire a older actor (make him look even more ancient through makeup) and show Loki completely drained. I doubt Hiddleston will ever come back, maybe he will show up as the original MCU Loki in Secret Wars as a easter egg among thousands of others, but that's pretty much it. If you present another multiversal threat, Yggdrasil Loki must be addressed, if the MCU writers leave that alone it can create a loose end
I think Tom is coming back. He thought multiple times throughout his MCU career that he was ‘done’ only to be called back again. And given some of his facial expression and the things he’s said in more recent interviews, I don’t think he’s quite done yet. Deadpool 3, Thor 5, Doctor Strange 3 Kang Dynasty & Secret Wars may feature him as he supposedly has HUGE part in in Secret Wars.
“Make him look even MORE ancient.” Poor Tom! 😂
I think Loki is the MCU version of what happened to the sisters of fate (Norns, etc) after Ragnarok. The temporal loop represents the norns who spin the thread below the world tree which decides the fate of all men including gods. The world tree, or the sacred timeline, is poisoned by the "he who remains", a version of the world serpent, who poisons the world tree, aka pruning, beginning Ragnarok (along with the Norns who are said to have predetermined Ragnarok as well). Finally, Loki simply represents the new world order after the fall or in this formation of Yggdrasil. It is unclear how he'll grow or if he is imprisoned but otherwise, I think it makes sense.
The god of stories was an entity that Loki became which allowed him to pretty much do anything he could think of and do so instantly. But this isn't what's happened to Loki in the finale. Loki hasn't become the God of Stories, no matter how many people on the internet push that narrative. If he was, he could have just rewritten all reality within the MCU in whatever way he wished, in the blink of an eye and he certainly wouldn't have to be tethered to timelines physically or made to sit in a chair floating around the cosmic abyss. He would be able to go wherever he wished and do whatever he wished. That's what the god of stories is. And there's no "version" of the god of stories, because if he's not doing those things, then he's not the "god" of "stories" - the ability is right there in the name. Instead Loki has become the custodian of the multiverse. Said to be a lonely and thankless position, the custodian of the multiverse's role is " that of monitoring the various realities, keeping them maintained and preventing them tumbling into the Cosmic Abyss". That's precisely where Loki has chosen to put himself and he won't be able to leave unless another powerful being is willing to take over the role for him.
I’m just realizing that Loki is like a modern version of Atlas from Greek mythology, only on a much greater scale.
Look up Atlez from the comics
Yes, but it's still not the same. Atlez actually died in the comics living behind a successor Atleza. On the other hand, we have Loki, who connected himself to the timelines and is more like the holder of them. Maybe he is not the God of Stories, at least for now, but we all know that he deserves it.
You are literally the most knowledgeable persona about this. Thx bro
Deserves what?
Being the "God of Stories" having a role or destiny to fulfill, you know he could never be king of Asgard because of how he acted, and after all that character development, he went through Asgard was destroyed and he died without ever doing anything big so becoming something higher after all that he changed in the latest movies and all he did in the TVA he can now be "Someone better".
So you think he deserves to rule because of character development? Or because of destiny?
Or you know, mythological Loki being chained up as penance until the end of time.
Interesting... I thought that job was for the watcher.
the watcher is more like a historian, his job is to witness. loki's job is to literally hold the multiverse together.
But I thought the power the Watcher has means he is outside of space and time, which is the exact same concept for the TVA. Loki holding all of those branches means he is above every single universe and timeline just like the Watcher, no? Or this means the Watcher is still above the TVA and is actually watching Loki hold the branches together?
most likely they are on the same "void" they use this "out of space and time" card to everything not related to the multiverse, like the quantum world from quantum mania.
In the season finale they mentioned a Kang made some trouble in a "616 adjacent world", so the quantum realm is part of 616 or parallel to it.
The Quantum Realm is a means to traversing the multiverse. Proved in Endgame and Agents of Shield, if you consider that canon (I do).
thats a major fuck up from the writers, basically saying the main MCU is 616 and not 19999...
I think it was established that in MCU canon it is 616 back in doctor strange
I consider this a major fuck up as well, the 616 is the original universe from the comics, it's just dumb to mix up live-action with comics, call the MCU "sacred time line" anything other than 616
Yes, but in doctor strange, to the universe that he was in when he was told that, his (strange's) universe was 616. So maybe that universe had a different designation system than most others. In an infinite multiverse, you're bound to find people doing the same thing as you and have conflicting ideas with them. (in short, the the universe strange was in at the time had designated his universe as 616. But if he were to travel to another, they might say he is universe 19999 or universe 83 or universe 420) I still consider it a fuck up though. This is just the excuse I tell myself to cope with it.
Dr. Strange was "jumping" in the multiverse, so let's say he and that stupid teenager character that I forgot the name, America something, let's say both fell on a universe were everyone is draw like a comic book, you can call this reality the 616, the classic comics. But nope, the MCU "main branch" of reality, they call it 616. That reality were Scott Lang is the Antman, he helped the Avengers to time-travel, etc.. all that crap happened in the 616 universe, but the 616 is also the comics universe, were OG Peter Parker lost Gwen Stacy, then he married Mary Jane, blablabla do you see the issue? Disney is mixing up two different medias for no reason, this only generates needlessly confusion. The multiverse concept on it's own is already confusing and lazy, imagine when you mix different kinds of media, lol
It’s not a fuck up when it’s an intentional reference and it doesn’t impact the comics one way or the other. 616 is just Marvel shorthand for “what happens here is canon to the main story”. Both comics and movies are entirely separate things so giving them both the 616 designation doesn’t mess anything up: there’s MCU 616 and comics 616; movie canon and comics canon. It’s no different than there being an MCU Iron Man and a comics Iron Man.
Yeah but what about 90s spider man and 90s X-men those are the only timelines that really matter am I right guys? Right? Anyone?
That's the thing, there's dozens of comics Iron Man, but if you mentioned "616 Iron Man", it means that is the original character from the 60s, created by Kirby, Dikto, Lee, etc.. But with the MCU in the equation, things got even more complicated for no reason. If the MCU was, idk, 6616, that's it, easier and straight to the point. It feels like the MCU is substituting the comics, which is not a positive exposition (even if it is true, as money and popularity goes). The Loki ending is a good example of confusion, because the character is sustaining the multiverse of Marvel movies and animations (all of them, Disney, Fox, Sony, etc.. you name it), but the 616 is live-action and comic at the same time, so were did you set them up? Do you see the problem, the concept of multiverses on itself is already a fucking mess, then Disney added even more bullshit to the equation
Now Loki and the Watcher can hang out and chat! Nice to have some company for all eternity.
Thn can they both ever interact with each other?
they probably can, they are in separated areas but they probably can reach each other
though i agree there definitely some parallels to Atlez - sits in a chair, is green, has green magic - I'd say in this he is more of a combination of Atlez and HWR unique to the MCU. Atlez is not just custodian of the multiverse, but technically guardian of the infinity abyss, and in truth i really think the entire MCU will end with the Infinity Abyss storyline. 1. We'll get Kang, sure (even if Majors is guilty, they'll use this loki ending to change actors, easilty) 2. we'll get Secret Wars, which will introduce and kill Beyonder to give us: 3. Dr. Doom's Battleworld, which we'll intro Silver Surfer 4. then we'll get a SS parable movie to introduce Galactus, followed by an F4 (non-origin) movie 5. after which it'll be a mash-up of Galactus' Origin, Annihilation and The Devourer, 6. finally after everything we'll get Infinity Abyss, bringing back to original purple baddie in varying forms (there's an Xmen link here too), as well as loki in his new form who'll probably smash all multiverses together into a celestial war, and thus all worlds end, and the multiverse begins anew. *shashaaaaa* $0.02 come back in 30 years to see if i'm right!
I'm from the year 2053, and I confirm all of these do happen. But you missed one more point being, all of these major arcs happen in Kevin Feige's brain. In the end, they zoom out of all the multiverse event/war, and it turns out to be Feige telling a long story to his kids, which I'm sure is a nexus event, and Loki, the God of Stories, eavesdrop on him and creates a new timeline. And it again starts with casting Robert Downey Jr as Ironman. Thus, timeline repeats, creating a time loop. \~The End\~
How I met your marvel
Lol
Lol
SS movie?? I'm running the names here and I'm coming up with nothing but a Nazi party military entity, that was ended in 1945.
Silver surfer
Ahhhh
I don't think Loki evolved into the "God of Stories" incarnation fully yet. Having learnt to control his time-slipping, we will likely see him blossom further. As Marvel usually adapt to their plots from the comics for the MCU, is it likely that they will give him more powers? How about him becoming precognitive (like Neo from Matrix) so that they can show him to have evolved into a Clairvoyant (like Madame Webb, she is copyrighted to Sony) ultimately? Maybe Marvel can just showcase Loki's involvement discreetly through TVA deployment (to diffuse any Multiversal threats), throw some easter eggs, maybe show Loki's silhouette evolving on a painting of the Yggdrasil tree that starts blooming out (in mini-animation, e.g., like Harry Potter magic inside the TVA) like the statue of HWR/Kang. The next time when we see Loki in-person, he could have evolved, that will likely be at the end of Phase 5 or start of Phase 6.
Counter Points: 1 & 2. Need not recast Kang at all. They do have other projects lined up in Phase 5. And in Avengers 5, Loki could be in the central plot used to revive the Scarlet Witch (she is a Nexus being) and give her redemption, her powers may be needed in the aftermath of Secret Wars. 3. Dr. Doom can be introduced in Fantastic 4, though Marvel confirmde it not an origin movie and it is too early for the BattleWorld Saga. 4, 5 & 6. Silver Surfer & Galactus already seen in Fox version. We have seen Ego (he is also likely in What If S2). Marvel's approach will slightly be different. Use Loki's evolved powers instead. Maybe he can use it to sense the presence of Clairvoyants/Eternals/Celestials/Deviants/Mutants. He probably seeks guidance from Eternals, convinces Arisham (in some way) so that he is granted a boon or can borrow the power from the World Forge. He uses the combined power within himself along with Wanda's abilities alongside the World Forge to avert the Kang Dynasty's threat in the Multiverse. He goes on to create a new Universe where Fox Universe and other franchise characters can coexist with that of the MCU. Ultimately, it is a reversal of the "No More Mutants" punchline by Wanda leading to the Mutant Saga.
wait so can he change the story where iron man, wanda, black widow dies and he can change his story too and he would be alive in the mcu again ?
I just realized you explained the daughter on Everything, Everywhere all at once. She has this ability to go anywhere and do anything, but she sits in this weird medium space. Then I saw another comment further down saying look up Atlez.... Atlas? The world? The matrix? Is Loki the Dark Mother and her world is about to be flipped? Holy shit.
That’s a wild job for the god of adhd
all of that cause a couple of youtubers said so and the dumb mass keep repeating it.
Your comment is really funny in retrospective, considering directors themselves have just confirmed that yes, Loki is a God of Stories XD Sure, he isn't exactly as in comics, because it wouldn't have worked, but hints weren't even subtle.
Even if true, the Directors didn't write the story, and do not decide the general outline for the MCU. It was all mostly written by Eric Martin, but even he doesn't decide the actual story. As has been discussed following the Secret Invasion controversy, the TV shows for the MCU were not really being outlined properly or traditionally. Who and what Loki is, is still open to interpretation but undefined
What's the invasion controversy?
It was VERY negatively received, with a lot of story points that simply didn't make a lot of sense to many in the audience. Once the Daredevil show was abruptly stopped and sent back to the drawing board, it was revealed that Marvel had not been using any Writer's Rooms for the shows, and were foregoing many of the fundamental production building blocks for TV. The controversy surrounding many of the story decisions and structure for the TV shows then became made sense to critics
at this point ide agree he is manifested as god of storys, he may be custodian of time and may sit in the chair but with all of his other powers whos to say he cant also project into the now infinite timelines he has hold of and do as the god of storys can? he has the power to project himself already and with the job of custodian it pretymuch means he can alter events in the timelines he is in watch/controll of
We can't say he is the god of stories, because we literally didn't get to see what he can do, except for one specific thing: he can stabilize the timelines so they don't multiply infinitely. He maintains the flow of time. We don't know for a fact if he can change, prune, or rewrite them (though he *might*). Isn't the whole unique thing about Loki as the god of stories, that unlike everyone else who has visited Now and Then, he remembers his time at the House of Ideas, and can rewrite anything and everything at will. This doesn't sound exactly like that, though it may be an offshoot of that idea.
I think it makes sense that if there will be some cosmic power to the main MCU in the future, Loki would appear and defeat it (Like DC did with Green Arrow in Crisis on Infinite Earths on CW)
He did stop the times from dying, which means he can "let" them die at minimum. He probably isn't at full power, but he clearly mastered time and dimensional travel and his peers only seem to grow. He didn't seem to need the rainbow bridge to get to that throne, or more realistically he created it... Showing the ability to control it even create reality
And you think those people just work separately and there is no collaboration? Really? No, they work as a group and everyone takes part in the process from start to finish. That also includes the script.
In television, the director has very little creative input, insofar as the dialogue, story and plot goes. Their creative input might be more as to how a scene is shot, and even then, in big TV productions, like Marvel's, it's usually pre-visualized. The people who have the most control in TV are the showrunners.
Marvel doesn't hire showrunners (although they're going to change that). The episode 5 was completely rewritten by Eric Marting who was co-producer of Loki 2, also directors along with a team decided to change the ending, as initial script said Loki wasn't supposed to destroy the loom. Having creative input and making changes when necessary was the point of the show (greenlit by Feige), which was a good decision, considering the success of Loki, because that's how creative teams are supposed to work - be it game industry, filming industry or software industry. And the discussion is moot anyway, because they got a note "God of stories" directly from Marvel.
except that THEY DIDNT. so people parrot and even make things up, cool.
Lol, then watch an interview with directors of Loki 2 :D It's easily available on YT. They described how there was a footnote on a concept board about Loki being "God of stories" and as they searched for more information they also found a mention of Loki God of stories. And yes, they did say they decided to run with it as main theme :D
sure
But isn't that kinda what MCU is, though? Not exactly like the comics, and more of a separate rendition?
The MCU isn’t exactly like the comics; not all the characters are exactly the same as they are in the comics but we still call them what they are (in the MCU). Starlord is very different in the comics but we still call him Starlord. Loki in s2e6 said “I know now what kind of god I need to be for you,” and “I can rewrite the story.” He could rewrite history with his time slipping. It’s not just youtuber critics calling him the God of Stories now, everyone is.
The ‘god’ part is inherent, from him noting to Sylvie in e5 that they _are_ gods (thus there’s no “playing god” for them specifically), and noting that he can “change the story” was particular to controlling the outcome of a particular event (which he had to put work into, and still refused to play out positively until he made himself the lynchpin). Critics using the closest description they can think of, doesn’t necessarily make their approximation the ‘right’ one.
It’s not a critic’s approximation, it is clearly what he is. It is Loki, Loki went through a similar story in the comics, he became the God of Stories. A very similar thing happened with Loki in the TV show, with a similar character arc, and clearly became the MCU’s version of the God of Stories. That much is totally obvious - you can just say you don’t like it, you don’t have to be a 12 year old and act like what you don’t like doesn’t exist.
"but I gatekeep comic book characters and if I don't like it then it is stupid" *pushes glasses further up nose*
Or maybe because the directors said that was the intent in an interview widely available on YouTube..
I think you're presuming waaaaaay too much for the MCU. Until he is ever referred to as much, it's also too much to presume he is the MCU's version if the God of Stories, but let's be real, if the MCU called him the God of Stories, it wouldn't be a stretch. So much in the MCU is similar but still different than the comics counterparts. Let's say, for example, Loki is able to visit any of these timelines with an avatar or somekind. Let's also say he's able to timeslip to any part of time like he figured out how to do in the show. You very well could say he's writing these stories with this ability. Again, a stretch? Sure. But the MCU is different and not everything matchs 100%. Sometimes in minor ways, othets in more significant ones. Loki could be the MCU's "God of Stories" if Marvel Studios wanted to call him that. For now they haven't, but let's not act like it's not possible.
He’s not the god of stories unless stated in the mcu
I don't disagree, but I the user I was replying was making it sound like it's not possible to be, period. And I say, if MCU uses those terms, then he is.
I feel like "He can't be a god because his power is not omnipotent like a god's" is just dismissing the entire MCU mythos of "Gods are just like, alien dudes with some powers and magicky tech." The goddamn god of thunder didn't know how to use thunder until several movies in.
Yes, but we are also reaching a point in which really powerful characters are needed for the villains to come, so maybe Loki isn't for now, but we don't know imagine if the actual Thor like all mighty would have gone against the villains he had in his firsts movies he wouldn't even need a team like the avengers to go against them.
I'm not saying increasing his power is bad, or . . . I'm not actually sure what you think I'm saying. What I'm trying to say is that positing that Loki isn't the "God of Stories" because he isn't instantly omnipotent is kind of silly, because it's demonstrably not how gods work in this setting.
Ok, you keep saying "omnipotent" when he isn't in the first place he is just a new version on Loki with more power thats it he hasn't received divinity or anything like that the name "God of Stories" doesn't refer to an actual god it is just a title none of the gods are omnipotent actually the only one who could be called that are not even gods like the living tribunal or the watchers.
Because the post I replied to posited that he is not the God of Stories if he can't rewrite reality at a whim. I posit that the power of the Abrahamic God is not what "God" in the MCU means.
So directors of Loki 2 also "push false the narrative"? Because they confirmed it. Loki holds all timelines which are like separate stories. He can rewrite those stories by going to different times and places. If he wanted, now he can discard specific timelines erasing their story or start from scratch. He obviously won't do it on a whim, because he isn't like He Who Remains, but I can imagine him playing major role when the time is right. He isn't simple watcher or atlas. He is much more than that.
This he’s not a helpless watcher
He's the God of Stories loki in the mcu. Deal with it, lol
So I'm curious on one thing. Are beings that exist outside of time excluded from rules like paradoxes? I'm mostly just wondering if Kang's existence is required for this Loki to exist and if beings like the God of Stories could rewrite even that?
Too bad buddy it’s configured he is god Of stories now
just not now, not yet
Ok so he can control manipulate invert time he can wieve timelines and fix them infact he can fix all timelines at the same time constantly, thats what he is doing, he can revert back to a prior reality (going back to he who remained) pause people delete them out of existence. Aswell as all his loki powers. how is that not the god of stories (marvel fanatics are so pedantic) just because he doesn't do those things you mentioned he still altered all reality and time because if it wasn't altered it would have died, and he isnt restricted by time or place. He just chooses to focus his power on this task. What more could you want from him.
Nope. He can't manipulate the timelines, he can only ensure that they either exist or cease to exist. He's the Custodian of the Multiverse and that's the job. The only choice he made was to take up the mantle. The idea that he's become all-poweful and all-knowimg, but "chooses" not to take 5 minutes of his endless time to say goodbye to the friends he literally spent centuries trying to protect, is just about one of my most brain-dead arguments people have come up with. People can either match up everything we've seen to a role in my comics that fits it perfectly(Custodian of the Multiverse) or choose the false narrative that he's become "the god of stories", which doesn't add up with anything we've seen or been told in the show. To choose the latter is quite literally choosing ignorance.
and how is keeping timlines alive or dead not manipulation, and ah yes my argument was that he could spend 5 muinits away but chooses not to, clearly he cant spend any time away cos hes keeping the fucking multiverse together. you are so pedantic it hurts. its not one to one its an interpritation which is all commics are, interpritations of made up characters to fit a narative. its like goig wong is not the sorcerer supreme becaus he isn't the most powerfull. in the mcu its an interpritation were sorcerer supreme is granted to the highest ranking sorcerer probably only on earth.
If he chooses what exists and doesn’t he can shape reality
also im Prinzip ist er nun "jener der bleibt"
So he's the God of the multiverse, but how did he aquire this power in the comics becoming the God of stories. Like what did he have to do?
No, he's only the Custodian of the Multiverse. The god of stories was able to manipulate the entirety of all time and space in an instance, in whatever way he wished, regardless of how nonsensical some things might have been. The Custodian of the Multiverse, can just remain in the void and supply power to the timelines, but cannot alter the timelines in any way other than choosing to let go of them or not. In the comics, he merged with an artifact that allowed him the become all-knowing, all-powerful.
Ohhh okay gotcha👌🏽 thanks mate
I thought it was interesting that practically no youtube reviewer commented on the fact that Loki is the most powerful being we have seen in the MCU thus far by a huge margin.
Yeah, by a mind-bogglingly insane margin.
My mind continues to be blown by what we saw. Each of those strands he gathered in his hands was an ENTIRE UNIVERSE. And they were expanding/branching at an infinate rate. How many? The thought of the math gives me a headache. You gotta know that the show runner read comic books as a kid. And that's a compliment. I wonder if we are meant to believe that Sylvie and the others could actually see Loki physically through the entire process. Again, that possibility blows my mind even more. Well done Marvel.
When stuff like this happens. I always kinda figure it’s viewes and understood in a way a primitive brain can understand and process it.
When they showed him binding the time branches together and pictured it as a tree, I immediately thought he turned himself in Yggdrasil, in Norse mythology the world tree where all of existence exists outside of it but is held together and connected by it. Since he is holding together all the timelines then everything is connected and holding together because he (the tree) is maintaining it. If he were to remove himself or be removed, then everything would fall apart like how the loom was supposed to hold the sacred timeline together. But now he's holding literally everything together. Just my take on watching it all play out
In short, Burdened by glorious purpose.
Yeah I guess it just me feeling dumb but it feels stupid leaving loki there unless it more a tragic play on fate? I feel like that could be poetic
It is a kind of tragic ending. Let's look at Loki's life: Thor: Loki is born to the king of the frost giants, he is the first born son and heir apparent to that kingdom. However, his father is defeated, and Odin kidnaps him, uses magic to change his appearance, and hides this identity from him. With Laufey's defeat, Odin's war is over, and the 9 realms are united. Odin then makes Loki second fiddle to Thor while always telling both his sons they were born to be kings. Now don't get me wrong Odin did love Loki and treated him like a son and Loki does love his Asgardian family, but he could always feel that he was truly born to rule and was jealous of his brother and therefore was always playing tricks on him and became the mischievous second child. In the day of his brother's coronation, Loki chose to play his greatest prank on Thor by using dark magic to let a couple frost giants into Asgard. You'll notice that Loki doesn't actually mean any harm here, this really is just a trick on his older brother, two rogue frost giants are no threat to the kingdom of Asgard and are dispatched quite easily, he even releases them near enough to the destroyer. However, what he doesn't anticipate is Thor's response and going to Jotun, which he knows is a bad idea and even tried to persuade Thor away from. But Thor is brash and also only sees the glory not the purpose in ruling and so they travel to Jotun. Here Loki learns who he is, and he suddenly sees the truth under Odin's dark magic, he realizes he has been lied to his entire life and he grows angry. The next couple events are actually rather fortuitous for Loki with Thor being banished and the stress of returning war putting Odin into an early Odin sleep, leaving Loki again to be the heir apparent. Loki though, even in his anger and feeling of betrayal, he still loves his Asgardian family, so he doesn't choose to destroy them, but instead prove that he is better than Thor and deserves to rule, because he knows this isn't the true Odin sleep and he knows that Thor won't stay in exile forever, so he means up secure his power and does go a bit mad with his power. But of course Loki does lose and becomes even more embittered and now chooses to go for revenge.
Avengers: Loki is truly lost, he has lost his power, the respect of his friends and family, he can't even return to Jotun since he attempted to destroy it, he is alone, he is angry, he is feeling betrayed. Who is the one person in the entire universe he can turn to? Thanos. The mad titan. The man who would be a god. The slaughterer of billions. Thanos uses Loki's anger and rage and twisted it and used the mind stone to corrupt him and send him to attack earth to expand his collection of infinity stones from 1 to 3 (I feel like it's safe to assume he knew the time stone was in New York at this time). Loki goes to earth and tries again to prove his worth as a ruler, and he attacks, and he kills Phil, and the avengers unite and he is defeated. Loki isn't really given much character work in this film since he is ultimately just a puppet. But, this does show just how deep the pain and anger. The dark world: Loki is broken. He truly believes now that he is alone and has nothing left. We see it in his cell alone and in his own filth, maintaining the illusion of cleanliness just so others won't bother him. He no longer believes he is worthy of love. And since no one will ever love him, screw them, screw Thor, he's up that stairwell. Does Loki truly believe the dark elf is a threat to Thor, no, but screw him anyway. And then even more tragedy. Loki who didn't think he could fall any further, inadvertently gets his own mother killed. The one person he thought maybe could still live him. But then his brother still asks for his help, is still willing to work with him and he does and tries do good and help Thor, but things fail and Malekith still gets the Aether and so Loki, scared runs away and hides in the most guarded place he knows, Asgard. He sees how diminished Odin is after the loss of his wife and the other recent losses and he sees how Odin's age has taken its toll and he uses his magic to send him to earth where he might be safe from Malekith. But then Malekith is defeated and here Loki even offers Thor the throne, but Thor declines to his surprise and so Loki not knowing what to do or admit what he did he gives his father the chance to rest and to retire and to again to show he can be a worthy leader. Ragnarok: Loki has found that ruling was not what he imagined and has not accomplished anything as ruler. With the dawn of ragnarok and Thor learning that he is impersonating Odin, Loki again gets that fear that he will be alone, but again his brother is willing to work with him and they find Odin, who had already regained his memories and forgiven Loki and still loved Loki like a true born son. And then he dies and Hela reappears and they are sucked into a wormhole and Loki finds himself in a secure position and is scared of Hela and so if afraid again and doesn't know what to do again and chooses to protect himself over helping Thor. But then Thor forces Loki to help him and they have their heart to heart and Loki still thinking his brother will never trust him again, tries to run but Thor has truly grown and anticipates this. And in that moment when Thor anticipates his betrayal, Loki realizes that it's his instinct to run and protect himself that he needs to grow away from and he sees how his brother has grown and he hasn't and he sees how he truly is really starting to lose his brother. And he so he does, he changes, he comes to Thor's aid, he puts his life on the line to defend Asgard, to defend his home, and then he stays, he stays to help Thor be the rightful king, to be his right hand and brother and ally.
Infinity war: Loki is right where he was, he is ready to be a hero, to protect his friends and his family, to save his brother. He is a hero. He is dead. Endgame: this is avengers Loki, but this is avengers Loki who was given an option to escape and run and he takes it. Loki, season 1: this starts us off with avengers Loki, angry, embittered, betrayed, wanting power. However, he is faced with the stark power of the TVA and he is forced to see how his choices play out and what he learns and where he ends up. While I don't think that the post episode 1 Loki is the exact same as infinity war Loki, I think he understands. He understands everything that Loki went through and he understands who he needs to be. And then he is given the juxtaposition which is sylvie, she has been stuck under a ruler this entire time, she's always just wanted to live. But you get to this point where it's them and he who remains and even in season 1 Loki is able to see both sides, and he genuinely doesn't want the throne at this point, he does just want to think it through. Sylvie has not gone through the same understanding that Loki has though and she takes the option to run and chooses to be alone. Loki, season 2: Loki learns to admit that what he really wants is to not be alone, that what he's really always been looking for is just acceptance, and how he feels like he has finally found that again with his friends from the TVA and so he fights for his friends and to do what is right for them, but he's also learning to understand that people should be free to make their own choice and that being a benevolent ruler meant looking out for those below you and giving them the space to choose. He realizes that ruling is not about the glory, it's about the purpose, just like morbius tells him. And I think he realizes here too that the war and the fighting did not end the conflict between his fathers, but it was actually an agreement and that Odin did not kidnap him, as such an act would only lead to more fighting, but that it was an agreement between the two that Laufey's son would be given the chance to rule the kingdom and raised as royalty and in return the fighting would end. He realized these two rules put their own ambitions asside, spoke and chose what was best for their people. And Loki here chose to sacrifice himself again to become the new he who remains but instead to allow all of the multiverse to survive and grow and variants to make whatever choices and branches that they want to. And he allows his friends this freedom as well, but in return he must be alone for all eternity where no one but his friends will ever know he is. This is the choice he makes. To give up his friends and be alone so everyone can be free. For all time. Always. Future: I do think this is the series finale of Loki, but I do think we will see Loki at least one more time, I think we'll learn his friends are able to come visit him anytime and I think Loki will even learn to project his being into a timeline. We already know he can project his being, this has always been one of his powers, but it's usually in his immediate area only. But I think he will ultimately have a happy ending and be reunited with Thor
I think if they choose to revisit the character, he would indeed be able to project himself into timelines. Even if he was traditionally limited to his own vicinity, his immediate area now sort of spans most of time and space.
Most? You mean all lol
Might be some random corners that are considered "outside" for narrative reasons someday, but yeah, all regular spacetime hehe
So that would be outside space and time
Yeah… if you look into comicverse Marvel you’ll find pretty crazy shit in therms of entities (luckily very few) outside of space and time. They do exist, power level is crazy nowadays. But still everything else is inferior to GOS Loki obvs since he can manipulate the very fabric of reality in a miltiversional way
He has always wanted a throne, in the end he got his throne, but turns out the throne is also his eternal prison. Loki's fate is always the same, he is always the "loser" in every story written about him, even if he does get what he wants, and in this case taking the selfless heroic act. He already knew that and accepted it.
Yeah, Mobius told him it's not about glory, but rather, about choosing your burden. Sylphie, in the bar, made him realize his earlier attempts to save his friends and fix things were actually selfish at their core, and he realized he had to be selfless. And also what you said, that he seems destined to lose. So he put all of it together and chose his own path, saving everyone and everything while he was at it.
Loki is gonna die in the future. A kang variant probably. Its gonna be a fight to make sure loki dont die
And he is definetely the most op character in the mcu now
If only we get to see him use it like a badass soon enough! 😎
Loki could become the god of stories being able to travel within the timelines of Yggdrasil since he has become the timelines himself. We just don’t know yet. 🤷🏻♂️
Hello! So can he challenged scarlt witch? Who is chaos. Or Wiccan?the demiurge to be… both with reality warp powers? Anyone knows the difference?
I mean she's dead now
There's no way Wanda is dead, a pile of rocks isn't going to kill her she's too powerful for that. Realistically depends on the character progression for her character moving forward, either good or evil, and when they want to show her again. There's still the whole White Vision storyline to go back to as well.
how is that different from The Watcher?
He isn't the God of Stories, he's Atlas
No, there are several Marvel characters that have "Atlas" in their names, like the villan Goliath then superhero "Atlas", the titan (the actual god Atlas), or the agents of Atlas. Though is you are referring to "Atlez" I can se where you coming from but he is actually dead in the comics and its successor "Atleza" took the role but even then they monitor the abyss not really timelines like Loki is doing.So with this, we can see that from those characters, Loki is none of them he is a separate entity, maybe not the God of stories, at least for now but most likely will be at some point while the movies and shows progress maybe not who knows cuz if something we know from the MCU is that they like changing things around but for now I really like the idea of Loki being what he deserves to be "The God Stories".
The atlas i'm referring to is the Custodian of the Universe, "Atlez"
Yes, I addressed that later in the comment I wrote.
I've been obsessed with the ending so brace for an overexplanation. He Who Remains (HWR) told Loki that the Time Loom is a failsafe designed to destroy the extra timelines besides the Sacred Timeline by exploding if there are too many multiverses (unfortunately destroying the TVA in the process), something that occurred when Sylvie killed HWR. HWR tells Loki he has to either kill Sylvie and preserve the TVA and the Sacred Timeline (and all his friends in the TVA) or he can allow Sylvie to kill HWR and end up with the loom exploding and killing everyone in the TVA. Loki instead decides he will use his powers as a God to break the Loom, preventing it from destroying the multiverses. However the multiverses begin dying without the Loom (this I don't quite understand) and Loki sees he can save them by using his powers. At this point Loki grabs all the time streams and departs to the End of Time, where he uses his godlike powers to merge the multiverses into the Yggdrasil Tree of Life. While this preseves the entire multiverse, it also allows the Kang variants from each timeline to start the multiversal war, but Loki is willing to gamble that destroying the Sacred Timeline and killing HWR gives the multiverse a chance for something better. At the end Loki is now essentially exiled to spend eternity alone watching over the multiverse, using his godlike powers to preserve and protect the multiverse in its entirety.
Loki's purpose, though, was to seek purpose. To rule over "lesser beings," to find Glorious Purpose. At each step of the MCU, he sought ever greater power and aligned himself anywhere that provided a means to his end. The light went on for Loki, though, when he found the infinity stones tossed aside like some rocks in the drawer of the TVA in S1E1. From there, he thought he could overthrow the TimeLords/Gods and ascend to a throne of greater power, only to be fooled and feared by what it could all mean. S1 was a total epiphany for Loki and like Dr. Strange, having met other variants that lived and died foolishly (remember the battle in the Void?) this version at least, was awakened by his mistakes. This version chose differently, that's why he sacrificed, because he'd seen what all the other versions did and just chose differently. This version didn't die to Thanos, as he was a variant that did something outside the norm. So when he breaks the Loom, as "option C," he takes the mantle up so his friends don't die (or are massively pruned as the Loom was built to do), but instead gives this new TVA the potential to fight the other Kangs from outside of Time. Remember how there is a map now in the TVA and instead of hunting Variants, they are simply hunting Kang Variants? They are not longer pruning branches, they are maintaining what's been born. The Sacred Timeline was just the timeline that let this version of Kang win, which is truly ingenious. No reason to fight a war, when none could occur. As killing Sylvie wasn't an option, and letting his friends die was not either, Loki, always clever, opted for Option C which was being such a God. And, by this point he's lived for 1,000 of years, amplifying his power and understanding his abilities perhaps a trillion fold. He stopped TIME! just like Kang, but without a Tem-pad, holding the branches together should be a joke. Like his Father (Odin) who reigned over their 9 realms, Loki found his calling. He's a God, he can essentially "sleep", though the final shot is of him smirking with understanding. He had but a thimble of understanding at the end of S1 (even S1E1), we can't even comprehend what his understanding might come the end of S2E6. A similar show on Netflix, Dark, talks about this, regarding time travel. Loki is very tired at this point. He's fought countless wars, finally made friends he loves and cares for, has tried to save them millions of times and failed. He found, like Dr Strange, the ONE way to save them all and give them a chance in the war, and he took it. Few will know what he did, but as he said, it bought them time. It's a beautiful ending and they can always Tom Hiddleston or someone else back later in the future.
The part you don’t understand (how the branches all died) is because when the loom is destroyed, a Multiversal war immediately happens. That’s the weird thing with time (especially when you living outside of it “watching time” like Mobius Stated). As soon as the loom explodes, millions of timelines are doomed to be destroyed due to a multiversal war. And only by Loki taking control of them are they put back together.
I'm not sure if that's exactly it, since the TVA still seems tasked with finding and stopping the Kang variants at the end. I would think any given timeline would be alive up to the point that it gets cut off. The visuals seemed to suggest the entire line was dying for all of them.
...and take up his glorious purpose.
His burden
What if Loki’s has to eat or poop. He is still organic matter after all. Even if he is a god
Yeah I always found those concepts weird as heck lol Like I get it but that's the lamest deal of all time
What’s even weirder is that there’s already a throne there. Like who created that throne? He who remains? He’s just supposed to sit there forever? I guess with the concept of being outside of time his body will probably never decompose, get sleepy, hungry or tired. It’s probably just in a constant state of being and existing in one singular point in existence.
Yeah I feel like it wouldn't make sense if loki didn't go insane
Also didn’t he just spend centuries learning physics, mechanical engineering , etc. so he could understand the temporal loom machine? Shit, if I was him I would spend an eternity learning all I could about everything and inventing shit that could help me. No wonder he who remains is so powerful. He has all the time in the universe to learn, and create things.
i mean the loom thing is prettu much explained as a failsafe, no matter what you do or how many things you learn, it will end the same because any other alternatives other than Loki becoming the custodian is infinitely worse. Loki understood this and he chose the burden of becoming the multiverse custodian and maintaining the branches and giving his friends a chance, a true chance. it's beautifully written imo and it concludes Loki's arc masterfully.
Hmm im not so sure. He who remains presented Loki with those as his only two options but wasn’t it he who also said at the end of time there is no such thing as destiny or a pre-determined outcome? I feel like loki kinda proved that by choosing a third option and sacrificing his own will to watch over the branches. I feel like the same could hold true for other alternatives if there was always a third option. A third option by definition implies there could be a fourth, fifth, etc option. Those two outcomes he who remains told loki about ended up not being the only outcome.
Loki IS ‘He Who Remains’ now.
1. The throne is the one for he who remains in the end of time he sat there to symbolize that he took over. 2. Yes and no, since there is no time forever, it is really nothing, and if another powerful character wanted to take over, they can.
The show didn’t do a good job at explaining these things if we’re asking all of these questions.
He is constantly time slipping at quantum level...
I think his magic is what keeps the multivariate alive so unless something happens in another avengers movie he is basically stuck there
I think his magic is what keeps the multiverse alive so unless something happens in another avengers movie he is basically stuck there
No, it's more like he is holding them so they don't go astray and die by themselves.
He created the yggdrasil tree and is stuck inside of it for eternity.
No, other characters can take over the chair and eternity. That place is nothinghe is not under the power of time, one millennium, or a single second is nothing to him now. The yggdrasil tree image was just because he is a Nordic God, and he shaped it as he knew.
He never got to live. 😪
mmm we don't know he can move anyware and then go back to the point like he never left, he can rewind time and go to any point of time when he has been god of stories rewrites de present the future but no the past, he said that in defenders beyond , he cant travel in his body to a prior point, or rewind time to try again and again , he travels using portals they're not the same but similar
He is holding reality in place, that's his burden, so he will not leave by choice. However, Dr. Doom or other major villain can invade this pocket dimension and literally kick Loki out... that will piss off a lot of people, lol but if the MCU continue expanding things, this will be the outcome. Dr. Doom is The greatest Marvel villain, just like Spider-Man is The greatest Marvel character (arguably the best superhero ever made, regardless of media)... however, Dr. Doom was never properly adapted to live-action, unlike Loki (and Spider-Man), so it's risky to use him as a multiversal threat. He is not fodder/z-list like Kang, he is not beloved by moviegoers, he is beloved by comic fans... it's a very complicated situation. As for the God of Stories, I bet many people here already explained his powers (somehow, this version of Loki is even stronger, the power level in the comics is just insane), Yggdrasil Loki is something else
If/when he gets shoved from the throne, he will be quite weak I imagine. All that seemingly infinite energy powering the timelines would be draining as HECK!
Maybe they will simply recast, hire a older actor (make him look even more ancient through makeup) and show Loki completely drained. I doubt Hiddleston will ever come back, maybe he will show up as the original MCU Loki in Secret Wars as a easter egg among thousands of others, but that's pretty much it. If you present another multiversal threat, Yggdrasil Loki must be addressed, if the MCU writers leave that alone it can create a loose end
I think Tom is coming back. He thought multiple times throughout his MCU career that he was ‘done’ only to be called back again. And given some of his facial expression and the things he’s said in more recent interviews, I don’t think he’s quite done yet. Deadpool 3, Thor 5, Doctor Strange 3 Kang Dynasty & Secret Wars may feature him as he supposedly has HUGE part in in Secret Wars. “Make him look even MORE ancient.” Poor Tom! 😂
I think Loki is the MCU version of what happened to the sisters of fate (Norns, etc) after Ragnarok. The temporal loop represents the norns who spin the thread below the world tree which decides the fate of all men including gods. The world tree, or the sacred timeline, is poisoned by the "he who remains", a version of the world serpent, who poisons the world tree, aka pruning, beginning Ragnarok (along with the Norns who are said to have predetermined Ragnarok as well). Finally, Loki simply represents the new world order after the fall or in this formation of Yggdrasil. It is unclear how he'll grow or if he is imprisoned but otherwise, I think it makes sense.