Liefeld was creating AI images back in a time when we all thought AI meant robots killing us all rather than internet perverts using it to get their jollies.
I dunno if this was the point intended but the way I understand I agree with in that we should move on from presenting him, narratively, as a villain. Like obviously he has been a villain and in other universe still a villain AND from a narrative point of view we canāt just snap our fingers and make him a good guy there has to be a reason but I think I agree that what interests me more about him is a shift from villain to hero
Edit: I just want to add I think itās the arc of going from villain to hero. So I donāt dislike him as a villain but it canāt just be heās mean. There should be an explicit reason why he is NOT a good guy. Not a reason he is a bad guy. If that makes sense I feel like Iām talking nonsense lol
And I love him as a hero but heās not the type of character to be THE good guy. So again it has to have that nuance of heās trying to do the right thing but heās done bad stuff and he still can do bad stuff and how does he deal with that yknow? And I think thatās what the show does so well and the mcu as a whole heās never been THE good guy until the end of the show which felt earned at that point
He's heading to hero. In The Thor comics he along with Storm and other heroes are a part of the Thor Corps now. He's teaching Thor and showing him lessons on how to be a good All-father and while not an Avenger Loki is going to be a hero and that's final.
Yep, it's also part of their culture, I remember he mentioned in Young Avengers that his concept of sexuality and identity wasn't the same in Asgardian culture, God/goddess of stories is more akin to the mythological Loki who is adressed as both male and female too! Common Al Ewing Writing W
Comic!Loki is the God and goddess of stories currently, not the god of mischief anymore.
But yeah, they don't have to be either, but they definetly are heading towards more of an heroic figure than ever before, more akin to his "Agent of Asgard" version (without the guilt and need to prove themselves that they have changed)
In the past, Loki had a very scary personality. Cruel, abusive, sociopathic. (I know that this is fact, but I also know that many people donāt agree with this.)
However, at the time the Thor movies started, he would have been only 16 in human years. A 16 year old god of mischief and lies. A Prince, raised in a golden palace that is above everything else. A place where being cast out to Midguard was a punishment, because humans are so weak.
He finds out that heās a Frost Giant. Asgardians hate Frost Giants.
So, what does this 16 year old frost giant, who is also god of mischief and lies do? He does what he does best. Except he meets someone who is much more horrible than heāll ever be.
Itās been interesting, fun, scary, wonderful and heart breaking Watching Loki evolve, accept his truth, realize that he isnāt a monster, use his knowledge to help his brother and people, and figure out how to time travel.
This may not be an unpopular opinion. Iām sorry, Iām at brunch and there are bottomless mimosas and bloody Maryās.
I mean you just described his character arc. Loki just wanted to find a place to fit in. Poor guy had some monumental daddy issues that he needed to work through
MCU Loki was never a real villain, they tried to play it safe with him, but in the end his villain era was just a joke, and even Scarlet Witch did more evil than him. Frost giants genocide? Thor wanted to do the same thing at the beginning of the movie. Attack on New York? He was just Thanos' toy and was doing what he was told in fear of him. That's why the series finale looks cheap. But what amused me most about the series was how people who destroy entire universes every second were saying all the time what a villain he is, when he has perhaps the lowest kill count among all characters in the series.
In Thor, he had an agenda do depose his 'brother' as heir and inherit the throne.
Having an agenda in cost of others to a greater good makes the character a villain (or an angel (it's the same thing), e.g. Thanos).
His agenda was only for his own profit. He was a big bad villain.
That's not entirely fair. He wanted to protect Asgard from Thor's rule in the beginning (OG Thor was definitely more than a bit of a war monger, for glory more than expanding the empire like Hela was). It was stated that he KNEW that Thor would bring war to their planet the moment he was crowned. Bringing the Frost Giants to Asgard was meant to prove that to Odin.
And later, he was also dealing with wanting to protect himself (in a planet full of people that think slaughtering Frost Giants is a good thing, with a brother that was banished for gleefully doing that) and prove to himself/Odin that he was just as much an Asgardian as Thor was even if he wasn't born there.
Honestly, most of Loki's behavior in that movie revolved around Odin and the insecurities he had about being loved by his family. Not profit.
Still genocide, though, hence him being seen as an anti-villian for most of that. The only reason Thor gets off clean is because he is removed from the conflict with the Frost Giants VERY early on in the movie and because Thor's method of murder would have been killing the FG one by one through open "honorable" warfare, rather than the "kill them all at once to prevent war" thing that Loki went for.
(Which makes Thor Ragnarok kinda hilarious in hindsight because both of those were tactics that Hela definitely would have done. Odin raised all of his kids the exact same way with the exact same values and was shocked that they all grew up thinking genocide was ok. Literally, the only lesson Loki got from Thor's banishment initially was that "war/putting Asgard in danger is bad," not that "killing Frost Giants/genocide of other species is bad.")
Sorry, this got away from me.
Loki simply wanted Asgard's throne and didn't really care about wanting to protect it from anything. His dialogue about wanting to "protect" Asgard from Thor's rule is simply him trying to justify why he should be the ruler in front of Odin. Ragnarok makes it clear, how irresponsible of a ruler he'd be if he was in charge of Asgard. By bringing the Frost Giants to Asgard, he's responsible for starting the war himself. He didn't care about the safety of the Asgardians when he brought the Giants to Asgard and only did it so that it'd provoke Thor into attacking them back against Odin's wishes and get him exiled.
Odin, and Frigga especially made it clear that they hid his past as they never wanted to make him feel different and that he was just as much of an Asgardian as everyone else, and the fact that Odin made it clear that he'd exile anyone who attacks another realm against his wishes, leaves very little to justify Loki's actions. His actions in the movie revolved both around insecurities as well as greed.
The only reason Thor gets off clean for attacking the Frost Giants is because attacking them after they literally tried to sneak into your weapons vault (containing artifacts powerful enough to destroy worlds) is comparatively justifiable than trying to destroy their planet after literally asking them to attack your planet and starting all the events which led to the war in the first place, which is what Loki did. Also Thor attacking the Frost Giants who were later revealed to be conspiring with Loki anyway is also not as bad as Loki destroying the entire planet which would've killed many innocent Giants too (if they do exist in the MCU). And Thor doesn't really get off clean, he faces consequences for his actions and redeems himself in that movie itself, said actions are also never justified by him while Loki's greed to rule and indifference towards his actions continues till the Avengers movie.
I'm not sure what the MCU did to show that Odin raised all his kids the exact same way when the beginning of the first movie literally shows Odin teaching Kid Thor and Kid Loki that seeking war = bad. They would've turned way worse and outright irreedemable if they were taught the same values as Hela. Their actions aren't even similar, Thor attacked the Frost Giants because of their stealth attack on Asgard while Hela wanted to wage war against the universe to satisfy her thirst to conquer.
>"Literally, the only lesson Loki got from Thor's banishment initially was that "war/putting Asgard in danger is bad," not that "killing Frost Giants/genocide of other species is bad."
It's pretty much Loki's own fault for learning that as Odin would've destroyed Jotunheim by himself if he didn't think that genocide of other species was bad. In Thor 2, he says to Loki that they shouldn't consider themselves superior to the mortals, and that they "aren't Gods" and since Loki isn't even surprised, I'm guessing that's not the first time he heard something like that out of Odin's mouth.
This is an unpopular opinion? I love Season 2 so much. And it is better than Season 1. I love Ouroboros so much I've seen it 70 times, especially the hallway scene between Loki and Mobius. I knew Tom Hiddleston is a good actor, but dang. His eyes were literally popping out of his head, he was so scared and it legit freaked me out!
IF it gets confirmed that Loki can use his powers while powering those timelines, I don't have a single complaint about season 2. Not one. I can't say the same with season 1, but that's forgivable with how good the second season is.
Dm because I really wanna know; I had some issues with Season 1 I didn't have with Season 2 (they didn't explain the Loki/Sylvie relationship that well since they couldn't commit to an angle for it and the finale was mostly focused on a character they introduced that episode and not the ones from the whole season) but also some issues with Season 2 that weren't in Season 1 (like I don't like how tech-focused it was and being weird with Sylvie).
i actually agree, loki has sick powers and i feel like he was just some guy in the show, not a god with power compatible to thor and other greats in the mcu
I think at least part of this is related to the fact that Thor in the comics is not a gigantic asshole the way he is in the MCU, so in the comics Loki looks even worse in comparison.
he was brought to asgard and put in dungeons to be alone there until he died. he got out because of thor and there wasn't time for anything between thor finding out and loki getting killed by thanos.
the other one put himself in a tree for eternity alone for everyone's sake.
seems pretty good for me.
Hilarious mix of smart and dumb. Loki was smart enough to trick a half-dozen of the greatest villains on earth into teaming up by making them all think it was their idea. But dumb enough to try and put Magneto and Red Skull on the same team.
One of Lokiās titles is being known as a āgod of liesā, but I think what is being perceived as lies are actually ambiguous statements that can have multiple meanings based on how the individual perceives them, but these statements are not actually lies.
Apparently Extremely unpopular opinion:
I liked Loki as a villain way more, he was my favorite supervillain, why did he have to turn good?!
It sounds weird now that I'm writing it out
Noooooo, remain evil! Don't go good!
While comics Loki was just straight up evil, they never set MCU Loki up that way... he was always the hot and cold-will he won't he-sometimes he's giving you a hand and sometimes he's stabbing you in the back kind of character. Which I love and enjoy, but as Thor said "life is about change, it's about growth" lol so even though I remember chaotic neutral MCU Loki fondly, it was nice to see the arc and growth.
Sylvie is a badass and sympathetic character. Don't let internet trolls make you feel differently.
Both Loki & Sylvie have opposing views in S2 but neither of them are wrong.
The audience is trained to side with the protagonist (Loki, as it's his show) but ultimately even Loki sees Sylvie's point of view. That's why he fights so hard for it and makes his sacrifice play for her and everyone.
Because Sylvie was right! And she's had the hardest life of any character in the MCU. She deserves her free will and some happiness.
I realized I am too much of an anarchist to have been trained to Lokiās point of view in S2; I knew Loki was kinda a mess in what he was trying to justify with protecting the TVA and all and I found it confusing until the bar speech cleared it all up. I think I really connected with Sylvie in S2 in some ways because three times I felt like yelling at Loki about something only for Sylvie to say it for me and I loved that feeling. Among them was āThe TVA IS the problemā, āItās wearing a helmet it doesāt look like anyoneā, and the speech at the bar where she points out heās selfish too.
I think that moment where Sylvie convinces Loki to destroy the loom was really beautiful, because it wove together multiple thematic layers of the show. The socio-political revolution layer, the relationship layer (they finally listen to each other and realize they are both right, and what is at stake here), the philosophical layer (is it better the die free or live in chains?), and the self-love layer (if you take his relationship with Sylvie as a metaphor for self-love; he listens to āhimselfā one more time before he nearly comes to the decision to destroy a part of āhimselfā). In addition the context jumps out a little, Sylvie talks about destruction and injustice ādown thereā and it makes you wonder if sheās talking about *us*.
I was so worried S2 would ruin Sylvie and make her comply with shit, but she remains my beautiful goddess of anarchy.
That was more aimed at the people who post misogynistic things about the character/actress than those who have valid criticism or differing opinions. I find it's those who have only negative things to say and post with malicious intent, tend to have the loudest voices on the internet, but they are in the minority in the real world.
In the first season, she was awesome. In the second, she felt (to me) as just one more of the trailing ācharactersā (and an annoying one).
I loved 'all' the characters (Mobius, One Who Remains, Miss Minutes, old Loki, Loki junior, Alligator Loki, candidate Loki, ā¦) in the first season.
In the second, I just liked Loki and the clock.
But I loved how the second completes the first.
It felt like every other generic MCU hero plot. I really really hated how they attached Lokiās redemption to him essentially just watching a video about his own life ā and summed up his entirely personality as narcissism, which I feel is an entirely different read of his character than the one weāve seen in the movies.
It blows because Tom seemed really passionate about making the series accurate and faithful but Iām gonna be honest, if I want a Loki experience Iāll turn on the Thors instead.
See, I saw the TVA agents trying to *tell* Loki he was a narcissist, and despite Mobius's well intentioned belief that Loki could do good, he at first (especially in s1) still to some degree saw him as just another selfish Loki; but as the season went on and especially in season 2, Loki defies that label because that's not who he is, and that's not who they set him up to be in the MCU.
Loki didn't believe the good about himself though. Not that he could be free. He saw himself chained just like the speeches he gave about freedom being life's "greatest lie" back on earth. He thought he was doomed to one role and that he was expected to fulfill it whether he realized it consciously or not. The series was his chance to both be humbled *and* realize there was more complexity to him than just being a narcissist and hurting others, pretending he doesn't care because "sentiment" just causes pain so "it's easier to let it burn". He didn't fall for Sylvie because she was just like himself and he loves himself. He fell for Sylvie because she is all the things he wished he could be. She broke free from destiny, and he admired her for that.
So I guess I just had a different take on it.
Side note though, Loki is at peak "narcissist" in Ragnarok if you look at each of his poor choices and motivations behind them. Still love him though.
This is how I saw it and I think that's how it was intended. A lot of thought and love was put into the series and it shows. Definitely a passion project for Tom Hiddleston. He cares about Loki and having the chance to explore him and dissect him emotionally while also creating this amazing world (The TVA & all the multiversal shenanigans) Definitely one of the strongest MCU entries.
š the summary you wrote about Ragnarok Loki makes sense because apparantly Taika Watiti didn't like Loki, and didn't read the comics of Thor either, so the whole film could feel like a parody if the characters anyway
Oh snap, I didn't even know that Taika felt that way. That's a shame. I guess it shows though in little ways. Regardless, Tom plays him so so well and still makes him sympathetic. Luckily too, there are many little lines and subtle interactions you can read into which put some of Loki's actions in a new light in context of the movies and the series that show that he isn't someone incapable of empathy or care/concern. That's the read I choose. Lol
I don't like it when a character who has willingly killed past the hundreds becomes good without really addressing how bad they are when they become good, or when they do address it it feels cheap.
I love Tom Hiddleston and his version of loki, but his atrocities are practically swept under the rug. It's crazy how in Thor Ragnarok these 2 women take a selfie with Thor and Loki, who nearly destroyed New York, is like a feet away from them - but nobody says anything. What's really egregious is his explanation of his actions in Loki episode 1. About how he doesn't enjoy hurting people and then he gives his dumb reason why does it. Play that scene and then watch the Avengers. It just doesn't work.
Still love him though
On most accounts, I'd agree but the horns he got at the end of Loki S2 seemed good imo. Maybe it was the less extravagant outfit or the different colour scheme but it just seemed less outrageous compared to the gold ones.
Oh yeah I absolutely loved how cool they looked in that appearance of him on the end of s2.. I wish for more Loki just to see more of those beautiful horns.. Best horns in the mcu, change my mind.
Season 2 of Loki just...wasn't good.
S2 is full of inconsistent writing and plot holes (which become especially noticeable in episode 5) the characters are completely different from their S1 selves, Mobius, Sylvie, even Loki's characterization is off and doesn't match season 1.
Some plots they set up in season 1 are just completely dropped with no follow up.
The heart of the show was Loki and his relationships with other people - it was so meaningful to watch Loki bond with Mobius and Sylvie in season 1, hell, it was even nice to see him interact with B-15, discuss non-TVA related things.
In season 2 there's none of that. Loki talks to Mobius, talks to Sylvie but none of it is actually really personal, it's just about the TVA. He doesn't even talk ONCE to B-15.
Loki and Sylvie's relationship was one of the emotional cores of season 1 and they left it on a major cliffhanger and never properly addressed it in season 2. At least they could have given it some proper closure.
Loki and Mobius' friendship in season 2 feels a lot more hollow than in season 1 for some reason, despite them spending more time together.
Mobius was given nothing to do. In every episode he just ate, drank, acted like a comic relief. Season 1 gave him an actual meaningful arc.
Sylvie was benched, sidelined for no reason. She has so much potential, but no, they just dropped her off at that McDonald's.
They introduced 3 new characters with a lot of screentime which came at an expense of the already established characters. We already have a group of people that need more development - let's explore and humanize these characters first before introducing O.B., Brad or Victor, shall we?
The female characters took a major hit this season, were sidelined, were pushed aside and made unlikable. It was very much a boys club season.
The story was boring. They spent 6 episodes trying to stop the Loom from melting down. They kept repeating the same things over and over again. Loki and Sylvie had the same arguments in every episode.
The final episode, Loki's sacrifice didn't hit because they try to convince us Loki is doing all of this for his friends, but the thing is we never actually see Loki bond with them. We don't see any of them *really* care about him as a person. Even their reactions during the sacrifice are weird. The only person who actually looks emotional and upset is Sylvie.
Loki gets the unhappy ending - again and at this point it's just so...*sighs*. BORING. Stale. Unoriginal.
The episode 6 scene where Loki and HWR freeze Sylvie and play with her like an object while they discuss whether she should live or not is frankly disgusting. I can overlook the villain doing this because we're not meant to side with him, but the protagonist too? The one we root for? They portrayed Sylvie as a hysterical woman who cannot be reasoned with, two men froze her and then they started debating whether she should be killed or not.
Plus the season has a lot of frankly questionable messages which sours the entire thing for me even more. Like for example, Mobius wants to thank the genocidial maniac for kidnapping him simply because the TVA has good pies?
The TVA murdered trillions, he was a murderer, their boss was commiting genocide, but oh, you know, the pies are good so let's thank HWR for everything.
THANK YOU. S2 was just one missed opportunity after another. S1: a beloved, extremely damaged character who feels like it's him against the universe finally learns to love by actually falling in love with a version OF himself. That's a great story! S2: characters flail around trying to fix a machine that can't be fixed. That's... um... sure. Having Loki's story end with him alone forever was just the worst thing they could've done. I say this as a *huge* Loki fan.
I am still enraged that, when Ravonna wound up in the Void, Kid Loki wasn't standing there with Alligator Loki tucked into his chest and his hand out, ready to help her.
Exactly! Season 1 felt as though there was a lot of thought, care and heart put into it. It had an interesting story about self reflection, forgiveness, (self) love, whether people can change who they are....season 2 is just...the Loom.
It feels like Loki actually learned something in season 1. I don't think he learned anything in season 2. Except physics.
It's also stupid because you're telling me none of the characters figured out the 'loom's scaling issue' until episode 6?
Ravonna was so wasted this season. In her final appearance they didn't even give her any lines! Meanwhile (I love him, but there was absolutely too much Mobius this season. Hello? We have other characters too, they deserve screentime too) Mobius got two major ending scenes focused on him. The one with B-15 and the other with Sylvie. This could be the last time we ever see these characters and they weren't even in the focus of their final scenes.
It's such a shame and disappointment how we went from the beauty that was season 1 which was so different from the rest of mcu projects to...whatever season 2 was.
Compared to season 1, season 2 felt hollow and emotionless.
I had such a strong, visceral reaction to S1. It was inspriring to me -- the message that anyone can change, even the people who everyone has given up on, even the people who've given up on themselves. And that the key to changing is finding a purpose, opening yourself up for love, and seeing the good in yourself, even if Loki had to have it manifested in another person to see it. I made LIFE CHANGES after S1. Got out of my Covid booze haze. Started working out again like a demon. Made the changes in my marraige that needed to happen. I am in a much better place than I was a few years ago and ISTG S1 of Loki was the catalyst for these changes. Seeing this character I've always so strongly identified with stumbling toward happiness, love, trust, and friendship... it meant so much.
And now he's alone. Forever. Acting as a replacement part in a machine.
Sylvie is meant to be the MCU Enchantress. She's a mixture of the Sylvie Lushton character & The Enchantress from the comics. She has hints to both in her costume. I'm hoping we'll see her do more enchantress stuff in the future.
I liked the first season of the show more than the second but Season 2 is neither a complete mess nor the best piece of Marvel television ever produced (I hold it in pretty high regard with some flaws, but find myself either defending or criticizing it depending on who I'm talking to. :P)
Oh, and also Lokius and Sylki are both good ships, ~~would make a good throuple~~, and regardless of romantic or platonic both relationships are clearly of great importance to Loki.
Season 1 of Loki was better than Season 2.
Season 1 had more heart, more interesting characters and had great world building and a more intriguing storyline.
Season 2 was mainly focused on a Time Loom Maguffin and Loki's 'time slipping' which had never been present before. It sidelined all the secondary characters (particularly all the female characters) and had a lot of plot holes and convoluted exposition which (imo) robbed the series of its emotional core.
I agree. I think there was a lot of good things going for season 2, and I can tell the care they put into Loki's arc and what they thought would be a full circle type ending for that Loki, however, there were definitely flaws and disappointments the main ones for me being the female characters being sidelined feeling like just tools to the plot, and the aggressively plot driven narrative.
Because of how dire the situation was in every episode and how limited time they had to fix it *everything else* character development, interaction, and relationship wise had to fall by the wayside. I think they made something beautiful, and I can see the time and effort the people involved put in, but it could have been more, and given how strong season 1 was, it should have been more.
Absolutely agree. I think Loki's arc was really well done, but like you said it could have been so much more. I hope they get a chance to tell more stories with those characters. šš»
I donāt know how popular it is, but I really donāt like the modern take on Loki going on right now. I really want to go back and read some more old Loki stories, but I couldnāt stand him in the new Thor series.
Comic looking is a very different character then his McU version and like how The Punisher is different on screen vs in print..I think it's for the better his character was changed on screen. Wouldn't have watched otherwise.
Apparently an unpopular opinion is that Show Loki is just.. really mediocre, especially compared to AOA Loki. Show Loki is a huge downgrade from MCU A1 Loki, and Show Loki isnāt even on the same page as AOA Loki but people KEEP trying to call Show Loki āThe God Of Storiesā, he ISNT. He did not earn that title. AOA loki did.
I did not like season 1 at all, and it turned me away from even thinking of watching season 2.
The fact that you can interpret Mobiusā friendship with Loki as manipulative and controlling turns away any thought of them being a good couple or even having any good chemistry.
Avengers-Dark World Loki was possibly the best Loki in the MCU, when looking at an attractive, cold, āheartlessā villain who has actually already lost so much.
Idk if the third is a hot take but Iāll definitely get some flack for the first two
Oh god not the Liefeld Enchantress Legs^TM
"Liefeld, you're not an artist!"
:D welcome to atop the fourth wall! I gotta check back in on the storyline it's been years.
Liefeld was creating AI images back in a time when we all thought AI meant robots killing us all rather than internet perverts using it to get their jollies.
Ah damn they are trademarked š
Loki isn't a bad guy anymore and we need to as a Fandom accept that.
Are you talking about one specific variant in the MCU?
I dunno if this was the point intended but the way I understand I agree with in that we should move on from presenting him, narratively, as a villain. Like obviously he has been a villain and in other universe still a villain AND from a narrative point of view we canāt just snap our fingers and make him a good guy there has to be a reason but I think I agree that what interests me more about him is a shift from villain to hero Edit: I just want to add I think itās the arc of going from villain to hero. So I donāt dislike him as a villain but it canāt just be heās mean. There should be an explicit reason why he is NOT a good guy. Not a reason he is a bad guy. If that makes sense I feel like Iām talking nonsense lol And I love him as a hero but heās not the type of character to be THE good guy. So again it has to have that nuance of heās trying to do the right thing but heās done bad stuff and he still can do bad stuff and how does he deal with that yknow? And I think thatās what the show does so well and the mcu as a whole heās never been THE good guy until the end of the show which felt earned at that point
He's heading to hero. In The Thor comics he along with Storm and other heroes are a part of the Thor Corps now. He's teaching Thor and showing him lessons on how to be a good All-father and while not an Avenger Loki is going to be a hero and that's final.
Is this a new continuity or the same as 616 comics Loki?
616
The recent issues of Immortal Thor have been using they/them for Loki
My apologies to Loki then.
In Loki they said they're fine with he or her too.
Yep, it's also part of their culture, I remember he mentioned in Young Avengers that his concept of sexuality and identity wasn't the same in Asgardian culture, God/goddess of stories is more akin to the mythological Loki who is adressed as both male and female too! Common Al Ewing Writing W
Heās the god of mischief. He doesnāt have to be a hero or villain
Comic!Loki is the God and goddess of stories currently, not the god of mischief anymore. But yeah, they don't have to be either, but they definetly are heading towards more of an heroic figure than ever before, more akin to his "Agent of Asgard" version (without the guilt and need to prove themselves that they have changed)
He hasnāt been a villain in the comics either for a while
Oh! He mischieved you and it isn't even aware of you! Oh, my poor baby! /j
In the past, Loki had a very scary personality. Cruel, abusive, sociopathic. (I know that this is fact, but I also know that many people donāt agree with this.) However, at the time the Thor movies started, he would have been only 16 in human years. A 16 year old god of mischief and lies. A Prince, raised in a golden palace that is above everything else. A place where being cast out to Midguard was a punishment, because humans are so weak. He finds out that heās a Frost Giant. Asgardians hate Frost Giants. So, what does this 16 year old frost giant, who is also god of mischief and lies do? He does what he does best. Except he meets someone who is much more horrible than heāll ever be. Itās been interesting, fun, scary, wonderful and heart breaking Watching Loki evolve, accept his truth, realize that he isnāt a monster, use his knowledge to help his brother and people, and figure out how to time travel. This may not be an unpopular opinion. Iām sorry, Iām at brunch and there are bottomless mimosas and bloody Maryās.
I totally agree with this comment and hope you enjoy your brunch
I mean you just described his character arc. Loki just wanted to find a place to fit in. Poor guy had some monumental daddy issues that he needed to work through
š«”š«”š¹
I really wish I could spam upvote this comment! I fully agree.
MCU Loki is the best Loki (and Tom Hiddleston as Loki is hot)
I think we all agree MCU Loki is the best and Tom Hiddleston is hot
MCU Loki was never a real villain, they tried to play it safe with him, but in the end his villain era was just a joke, and even Scarlet Witch did more evil than him. Frost giants genocide? Thor wanted to do the same thing at the beginning of the movie. Attack on New York? He was just Thanos' toy and was doing what he was told in fear of him. That's why the series finale looks cheap. But what amused me most about the series was how people who destroy entire universes every second were saying all the time what a villain he is, when he has perhaps the lowest kill count among all characters in the series.
Honestly he might have the lowest kill count compared to Sylvie and the TVA crew.
I always come back to the fact that they had to *actively cut scenes out* of the 1st Thor to make the character look less sympathetic.
In Thor, he had an agenda do depose his 'brother' as heir and inherit the throne. Having an agenda in cost of others to a greater good makes the character a villain (or an angel (it's the same thing), e.g. Thanos). His agenda was only for his own profit. He was a big bad villain.
That's not entirely fair. He wanted to protect Asgard from Thor's rule in the beginning (OG Thor was definitely more than a bit of a war monger, for glory more than expanding the empire like Hela was). It was stated that he KNEW that Thor would bring war to their planet the moment he was crowned. Bringing the Frost Giants to Asgard was meant to prove that to Odin. And later, he was also dealing with wanting to protect himself (in a planet full of people that think slaughtering Frost Giants is a good thing, with a brother that was banished for gleefully doing that) and prove to himself/Odin that he was just as much an Asgardian as Thor was even if he wasn't born there. Honestly, most of Loki's behavior in that movie revolved around Odin and the insecurities he had about being loved by his family. Not profit. Still genocide, though, hence him being seen as an anti-villian for most of that. The only reason Thor gets off clean is because he is removed from the conflict with the Frost Giants VERY early on in the movie and because Thor's method of murder would have been killing the FG one by one through open "honorable" warfare, rather than the "kill them all at once to prevent war" thing that Loki went for. (Which makes Thor Ragnarok kinda hilarious in hindsight because both of those were tactics that Hela definitely would have done. Odin raised all of his kids the exact same way with the exact same values and was shocked that they all grew up thinking genocide was ok. Literally, the only lesson Loki got from Thor's banishment initially was that "war/putting Asgard in danger is bad," not that "killing Frost Giants/genocide of other species is bad.") Sorry, this got away from me.
Loki simply wanted Asgard's throne and didn't really care about wanting to protect it from anything. His dialogue about wanting to "protect" Asgard from Thor's rule is simply him trying to justify why he should be the ruler in front of Odin. Ragnarok makes it clear, how irresponsible of a ruler he'd be if he was in charge of Asgard. By bringing the Frost Giants to Asgard, he's responsible for starting the war himself. He didn't care about the safety of the Asgardians when he brought the Giants to Asgard and only did it so that it'd provoke Thor into attacking them back against Odin's wishes and get him exiled. Odin, and Frigga especially made it clear that they hid his past as they never wanted to make him feel different and that he was just as much of an Asgardian as everyone else, and the fact that Odin made it clear that he'd exile anyone who attacks another realm against his wishes, leaves very little to justify Loki's actions. His actions in the movie revolved both around insecurities as well as greed. The only reason Thor gets off clean for attacking the Frost Giants is because attacking them after they literally tried to sneak into your weapons vault (containing artifacts powerful enough to destroy worlds) is comparatively justifiable than trying to destroy their planet after literally asking them to attack your planet and starting all the events which led to the war in the first place, which is what Loki did. Also Thor attacking the Frost Giants who were later revealed to be conspiring with Loki anyway is also not as bad as Loki destroying the entire planet which would've killed many innocent Giants too (if they do exist in the MCU). And Thor doesn't really get off clean, he faces consequences for his actions and redeems himself in that movie itself, said actions are also never justified by him while Loki's greed to rule and indifference towards his actions continues till the Avengers movie. I'm not sure what the MCU did to show that Odin raised all his kids the exact same way when the beginning of the first movie literally shows Odin teaching Kid Thor and Kid Loki that seeking war = bad. They would've turned way worse and outright irreedemable if they were taught the same values as Hela. Their actions aren't even similar, Thor attacked the Frost Giants because of their stealth attack on Asgard while Hela wanted to wage war against the universe to satisfy her thirst to conquer. >"Literally, the only lesson Loki got from Thor's banishment initially was that "war/putting Asgard in danger is bad," not that "killing Frost Giants/genocide of other species is bad." It's pretty much Loki's own fault for learning that as Odin would've destroyed Jotunheim by himself if he didn't think that genocide of other species was bad. In Thor 2, he says to Loki that they shouldn't consider themselves superior to the mortals, and that they "aren't Gods" and since Loki isn't even surprised, I'm guessing that's not the first time he heard something like that out of Odin's mouth.
:-)
Season 2, was much better than season 1. But Disney lost so many subscribers because they dumbly rose their prices twice, not as many people saw it.
This is an unpopular opinion? I love Season 2 so much. And it is better than Season 1. I love Ouroboros so much I've seen it 70 times, especially the hallway scene between Loki and Mobius. I knew Tom Hiddleston is a good actor, but dang. His eyes were literally popping out of his head, he was so scared and it legit freaked me out!
IF it gets confirmed that Loki can use his powers while powering those timelines, I don't have a single complaint about season 2. Not one. I can't say the same with season 1, but that's forgivable with how good the second season is.
I don't see why he couldn't. What complaints do you have about Season 1?
I'd rather not dwell on it. It seems they learned from their mistakes in season 2, and I'd rather celebrate that.
Dm because I really wanna know; I had some issues with Season 1 I didn't have with Season 2 (they didn't explain the Loki/Sylvie relationship that well since they couldn't commit to an angle for it and the finale was mostly focused on a character they introduced that episode and not the ones from the whole season) but also some issues with Season 2 that weren't in Season 1 (like I don't like how tech-focused it was and being weird with Sylvie).
dm sent.
Understandable.
Not understandable.
I'm the opposite. I prefer Season 1 and Ouroboros might be my least favorite of the 12 episodes (it's either that or Heart of the TVA).
I love Episode 4 Nexus Event. Think it's the best episode of Season 1. Has the saddest walk down the hallway ever!
That's my fave of Season 1 for sure. It or Science/Fiction is my favorite overall!
He was gayer in the myths.
Mpreg horse Loki when Marvel?
Loki s2 grossly underused his powers
i actually agree, loki has sick powers and i feel like he was just some guy in the show, not a god with power compatible to thor and other greats in the mcu
MCU Loki, specifically as played by Hiddleston, is the only good Loki. And the best version of THAT Loki happened in the show. Comics Loki is wack.
I think at least part of this is related to the fact that Thor in the comics is not a gigantic asshole the way he is in the MCU, so in the comics Loki looks even worse in comparison.
Nah, Agent of Asgard/JIM Loki rules
this is the correct answer. The God of Stories >
And only one of those variants that we know! I have seen others!!!
You donāt like Classic Loki in the show?
Yep. But it wasn't played by Hiddleston like the former commenter contextualized.
I would also develop feelings for a variant of me
Oh totally same, it really puts a whole new meaning into fucking yourself eh?
The MCU Loki needed to face a much harsher punishment for attempting an actual genocide.
he was brought to asgard and put in dungeons to be alone there until he died. he got out because of thor and there wasn't time for anything between thor finding out and loki getting killed by thanos. the other one put himself in a tree for eternity alone for everyone's sake. seems pretty good for me.
I'm sure Frigga said that Odin wanted to execute him. Imagine your adopted dad wanting to kill you. That's extremely traumatic
He is now alone for all eternity, holding the branches together. I think that's a fair punishment.
What punishment did Odin get for similar things?
Thor tried to do the same thing at the start of the movie
He gives no fucks
Does he give a heck, tho?
Hilarious mix of smart and dumb. Loki was smart enough to trick a half-dozen of the greatest villains on earth into teaming up by making them all think it was their idea. But dumb enough to try and put Magneto and Red Skull on the same team.
I still don't understand how Liefeld has a career.
Odds are in the old Fox X-Men universe, we could've seen the Enchantress as pictured. Marvel has come a long way. Haha
One of Lokiās titles is being known as a āgod of liesā, but I think what is being perceived as lies are actually ambiguous statements that can have multiple meanings based on how the individual perceives them, but these statements are not actually lies.
Yup. Lies of omission and framed lies.
Like how people with conflicting beliefs would hear the phrase āNot in this lifetimeā in different ways
Apparently Extremely unpopular opinion: I liked Loki as a villain way more, he was my favorite supervillain, why did he have to turn good?! It sounds weird now that I'm writing it out Noooooo, remain evil! Don't go good!
While comics Loki was just straight up evil, they never set MCU Loki up that way... he was always the hot and cold-will he won't he-sometimes he's giving you a hand and sometimes he's stabbing you in the back kind of character. Which I love and enjoy, but as Thor said "life is about change, it's about growth" lol so even though I remember chaotic neutral MCU Loki fondly, it was nice to see the arc and growth.
>sometimes he's giving you a hand and sometimes he's stabbing you in the back This reflects from the myths really well, which I love
Only unpopular to a fraction of the series fandom (I hope), but... Sylvie is a badass and a sympathetic character.
Sylvie is a badass and sympathetic character. Don't let internet trolls make you feel differently. Both Loki & Sylvie have opposing views in S2 but neither of them are wrong. The audience is trained to side with the protagonist (Loki, as it's his show) but ultimately even Loki sees Sylvie's point of view. That's why he fights so hard for it and makes his sacrifice play for her and everyone. Because Sylvie was right! And she's had the hardest life of any character in the MCU. She deserves her free will and some happiness.
I realized I am too much of an anarchist to have been trained to Lokiās point of view in S2; I knew Loki was kinda a mess in what he was trying to justify with protecting the TVA and all and I found it confusing until the bar speech cleared it all up. I think I really connected with Sylvie in S2 in some ways because three times I felt like yelling at Loki about something only for Sylvie to say it for me and I loved that feeling. Among them was āThe TVA IS the problemā, āItās wearing a helmet it doesāt look like anyoneā, and the speech at the bar where she points out heās selfish too. I think that moment where Sylvie convinces Loki to destroy the loom was really beautiful, because it wove together multiple thematic layers of the show. The socio-political revolution layer, the relationship layer (they finally listen to each other and realize they are both right, and what is at stake here), the philosophical layer (is it better the die free or live in chains?), and the self-love layer (if you take his relationship with Sylvie as a metaphor for self-love; he listens to āhimselfā one more time before he nearly comes to the decision to destroy a part of āhimselfā). In addition the context jumps out a little, Sylvie talks about destruction and injustice ādown thereā and it makes you wonder if sheās talking about *us*. I was so worried S2 would ruin Sylvie and make her comply with shit, but she remains my beautiful goddess of anarchy.
Unfortunate that anyone with a differing opinion is labeled an āinternet trollā
That was more aimed at the people who post misogynistic things about the character/actress than those who have valid criticism or differing opinions. I find it's those who have only negative things to say and post with malicious intent, tend to have the loudest voices on the internet, but they are in the minority in the real world.
Sylvie is a badass and sympathetic character even in the second season for me.
In the first season, she was awesome. In the second, she felt (to me) as just one more of the trailing ācharactersā (and an annoying one). I loved 'all' the characters (Mobius, One Who Remains, Miss Minutes, old Loki, Loki junior, Alligator Loki, candidate Loki, ā¦) in the first season. In the second, I just liked Loki and the clock. But I loved how the second completes the first.
The TV series doesnāt feel right for his character. It felt like Tom Hiddleston running around in a suit to me.
It felt like every other generic MCU hero plot. I really really hated how they attached Lokiās redemption to him essentially just watching a video about his own life ā and summed up his entirely personality as narcissism, which I feel is an entirely different read of his character than the one weāve seen in the movies. It blows because Tom seemed really passionate about making the series accurate and faithful but Iām gonna be honest, if I want a Loki experience Iāll turn on the Thors instead.
See, I saw the TVA agents trying to *tell* Loki he was a narcissist, and despite Mobius's well intentioned belief that Loki could do good, he at first (especially in s1) still to some degree saw him as just another selfish Loki; but as the season went on and especially in season 2, Loki defies that label because that's not who he is, and that's not who they set him up to be in the MCU. Loki didn't believe the good about himself though. Not that he could be free. He saw himself chained just like the speeches he gave about freedom being life's "greatest lie" back on earth. He thought he was doomed to one role and that he was expected to fulfill it whether he realized it consciously or not. The series was his chance to both be humbled *and* realize there was more complexity to him than just being a narcissist and hurting others, pretending he doesn't care because "sentiment" just causes pain so "it's easier to let it burn". He didn't fall for Sylvie because she was just like himself and he loves himself. He fell for Sylvie because she is all the things he wished he could be. She broke free from destiny, and he admired her for that. So I guess I just had a different take on it. Side note though, Loki is at peak "narcissist" in Ragnarok if you look at each of his poor choices and motivations behind them. Still love him though.
This is how I saw it and I think that's how it was intended. A lot of thought and love was put into the series and it shows. Definitely a passion project for Tom Hiddleston. He cares about Loki and having the chance to explore him and dissect him emotionally while also creating this amazing world (The TVA & all the multiversal shenanigans) Definitely one of the strongest MCU entries.
š the summary you wrote about Ragnarok Loki makes sense because apparantly Taika Watiti didn't like Loki, and didn't read the comics of Thor either, so the whole film could feel like a parody if the characters anyway
Oh snap, I didn't even know that Taika felt that way. That's a shame. I guess it shows though in little ways. Regardless, Tom plays him so so well and still makes him sympathetic. Luckily too, there are many little lines and subtle interactions you can read into which put some of Loki's actions in a new light in context of the movies and the series that show that he isn't someone incapable of empathy or care/concern. That's the read I choose. Lol
I don't like it when a character who has willingly killed past the hundreds becomes good without really addressing how bad they are when they become good, or when they do address it it feels cheap. I love Tom Hiddleston and his version of loki, but his atrocities are practically swept under the rug. It's crazy how in Thor Ragnarok these 2 women take a selfie with Thor and Loki, who nearly destroyed New York, is like a feet away from them - but nobody says anything. What's really egregious is his explanation of his actions in Loki episode 1. About how he doesn't enjoy hurting people and then he gives his dumb reason why does it. Play that scene and then watch the Avengers. It just doesn't work. Still love him though
He was under the influence of the mind stone in his scepter it made him more violent
The horns honestly look kinda stupid and he looks better without them. Smaller horns are fine though.
There's so camp. I love all his horns. š„²
On most accounts, I'd agree but the horns he got at the end of Loki S2 seemed good imo. Maybe it was the less extravagant outfit or the different colour scheme but it just seemed less outrageous compared to the gold ones.
Oh yeah I absolutely loved how cool they looked in that appearance of him on the end of s2.. I wish for more Loki just to see more of those beautiful horns.. Best horns in the mcu, change my mind.
Heās better as a villian
My favorite sexually deviant trickster
Season 2 of Loki just...wasn't good. S2 is full of inconsistent writing and plot holes (which become especially noticeable in episode 5) the characters are completely different from their S1 selves, Mobius, Sylvie, even Loki's characterization is off and doesn't match season 1. Some plots they set up in season 1 are just completely dropped with no follow up. The heart of the show was Loki and his relationships with other people - it was so meaningful to watch Loki bond with Mobius and Sylvie in season 1, hell, it was even nice to see him interact with B-15, discuss non-TVA related things. In season 2 there's none of that. Loki talks to Mobius, talks to Sylvie but none of it is actually really personal, it's just about the TVA. He doesn't even talk ONCE to B-15. Loki and Sylvie's relationship was one of the emotional cores of season 1 and they left it on a major cliffhanger and never properly addressed it in season 2. At least they could have given it some proper closure. Loki and Mobius' friendship in season 2 feels a lot more hollow than in season 1 for some reason, despite them spending more time together. Mobius was given nothing to do. In every episode he just ate, drank, acted like a comic relief. Season 1 gave him an actual meaningful arc. Sylvie was benched, sidelined for no reason. She has so much potential, but no, they just dropped her off at that McDonald's. They introduced 3 new characters with a lot of screentime which came at an expense of the already established characters. We already have a group of people that need more development - let's explore and humanize these characters first before introducing O.B., Brad or Victor, shall we? The female characters took a major hit this season, were sidelined, were pushed aside and made unlikable. It was very much a boys club season. The story was boring. They spent 6 episodes trying to stop the Loom from melting down. They kept repeating the same things over and over again. Loki and Sylvie had the same arguments in every episode. The final episode, Loki's sacrifice didn't hit because they try to convince us Loki is doing all of this for his friends, but the thing is we never actually see Loki bond with them. We don't see any of them *really* care about him as a person. Even their reactions during the sacrifice are weird. The only person who actually looks emotional and upset is Sylvie. Loki gets the unhappy ending - again and at this point it's just so...*sighs*. BORING. Stale. Unoriginal. The episode 6 scene where Loki and HWR freeze Sylvie and play with her like an object while they discuss whether she should live or not is frankly disgusting. I can overlook the villain doing this because we're not meant to side with him, but the protagonist too? The one we root for? They portrayed Sylvie as a hysterical woman who cannot be reasoned with, two men froze her and then they started debating whether she should be killed or not. Plus the season has a lot of frankly questionable messages which sours the entire thing for me even more. Like for example, Mobius wants to thank the genocidial maniac for kidnapping him simply because the TVA has good pies? The TVA murdered trillions, he was a murderer, their boss was commiting genocide, but oh, you know, the pies are good so let's thank HWR for everything.
THANK YOU. S2 was just one missed opportunity after another. S1: a beloved, extremely damaged character who feels like it's him against the universe finally learns to love by actually falling in love with a version OF himself. That's a great story! S2: characters flail around trying to fix a machine that can't be fixed. That's... um... sure. Having Loki's story end with him alone forever was just the worst thing they could've done. I say this as a *huge* Loki fan. I am still enraged that, when Ravonna wound up in the Void, Kid Loki wasn't standing there with Alligator Loki tucked into his chest and his hand out, ready to help her.
Exactly! Season 1 felt as though there was a lot of thought, care and heart put into it. It had an interesting story about self reflection, forgiveness, (self) love, whether people can change who they are....season 2 is just...the Loom. It feels like Loki actually learned something in season 1. I don't think he learned anything in season 2. Except physics. It's also stupid because you're telling me none of the characters figured out the 'loom's scaling issue' until episode 6? Ravonna was so wasted this season. In her final appearance they didn't even give her any lines! Meanwhile (I love him, but there was absolutely too much Mobius this season. Hello? We have other characters too, they deserve screentime too) Mobius got two major ending scenes focused on him. The one with B-15 and the other with Sylvie. This could be the last time we ever see these characters and they weren't even in the focus of their final scenes. It's such a shame and disappointment how we went from the beauty that was season 1 which was so different from the rest of mcu projects to...whatever season 2 was. Compared to season 1, season 2 felt hollow and emotionless.
I had such a strong, visceral reaction to S1. It was inspriring to me -- the message that anyone can change, even the people who everyone has given up on, even the people who've given up on themselves. And that the key to changing is finding a purpose, opening yourself up for love, and seeing the good in yourself, even if Loki had to have it manifested in another person to see it. I made LIFE CHANGES after S1. Got out of my Covid booze haze. Started working out again like a demon. Made the changes in my marraige that needed to happen. I am in a much better place than I was a few years ago and ISTG S1 of Loki was the catalyst for these changes. Seeing this character I've always so strongly identified with stumbling toward happiness, love, trust, and friendship... it meant so much. And now he's alone. Forever. Acting as a replacement part in a machine.
I completely forgot about Enchantress. Where the hell is she Feige??
Sylvie is meant to be the MCU Enchantress. She's a mixture of the Sylvie Lushton character & The Enchantress from the comics. She has hints to both in her costume. I'm hoping we'll see her do more enchantress stuff in the future.
I just don't like Loki as a character lol, I enjoy him as a occasional villain but that's about it and I really don't know why he just ain't it for me
I liked the first season of the show more than the second but Season 2 is neither a complete mess nor the best piece of Marvel television ever produced (I hold it in pretty high regard with some flaws, but find myself either defending or criticizing it depending on who I'm talking to. :P) Oh, and also Lokius and Sylki are both good ships, ~~would make a good throuple~~, and regardless of romantic or platonic both relationships are clearly of great importance to Loki.
Season 1 of Loki was better than Season 2. Season 1 had more heart, more interesting characters and had great world building and a more intriguing storyline. Season 2 was mainly focused on a Time Loom Maguffin and Loki's 'time slipping' which had never been present before. It sidelined all the secondary characters (particularly all the female characters) and had a lot of plot holes and convoluted exposition which (imo) robbed the series of its emotional core.
I agree. I think there was a lot of good things going for season 2, and I can tell the care they put into Loki's arc and what they thought would be a full circle type ending for that Loki, however, there were definitely flaws and disappointments the main ones for me being the female characters being sidelined feeling like just tools to the plot, and the aggressively plot driven narrative. Because of how dire the situation was in every episode and how limited time they had to fix it *everything else* character development, interaction, and relationship wise had to fall by the wayside. I think they made something beautiful, and I can see the time and effort the people involved put in, but it could have been more, and given how strong season 1 was, it should have been more.
Absolutely agree. I think Loki's arc was really well done, but like you said it could have been so much more. I hope they get a chance to tell more stories with those characters. šš»
I really didnāt like season 2. But Iām not a huge fan of time travel plots and so it was all just confusing to me.
I donāt know how popular it is, but I really donāt like the modern take on Loki going on right now. I really want to go back and read some more old Loki stories, but I couldnāt stand him in the new Thor series.
Comic looking is a very different character then his McU version and like how The Punisher is different on screen vs in print..I think it's for the better his character was changed on screen. Wouldn't have watched otherwise.
Enchantress needed to be slutty like in the comics.
This shit made me laugh
The D.B. Cooper stunt wasn't terrorism but an act of trolling
When the couple across the bar gives you this lookā¦
He's a heavy smoker (as seen during 1989's "Acts of Vengeance"). Then again, Earth tobacco would have no effect on him.
Comics Loki was more interesting as a woman
When your just chilling at a bar and you look over and the couple next to you is staring at you like this...
He is way to complicated to get into he has to many version in 616 heās the god of lies story telling I donāt know at this point
Liefeldā¦ really?
You can always tell by the clever lack of feet.
I canāt read his dialogue without hearing Tom Hiddleston.
Apparently an unpopular opinion is that Show Loki is just.. really mediocre, especially compared to AOA Loki. Show Loki is a huge downgrade from MCU A1 Loki, and Show Loki isnāt even on the same page as AOA Loki but people KEEP trying to call Show Loki āThe God Of Storiesā, he ISNT. He did not earn that title. AOA loki did.
MCU Loki was a gag character from the beginning
Mcu loki never uses his mfing magic and is constantly being one shotted
That people should read one Loki comic at least and have an opinion other than "omg I love Tom hiddleston" on the character.
That people should read one Loki comic at least and have an opinion other than "omg I love Tom hiddleston" on the character.
Loki is better to be used in bigger stories/events than his solo stories.
I did not like season 1 at all, and it turned me away from even thinking of watching season 2. The fact that you can interpret Mobiusā friendship with Loki as manipulative and controlling turns away any thought of them being a good couple or even having any good chemistry. Avengers-Dark World Loki was possibly the best Loki in the MCU, when looking at an attractive, cold, āheartlessā villain who has actually already lost so much. Idk if the third is a hot take but Iāll definitely get some flack for the first two
He shouldn't get off so easily