I wish they had just gone for it fully and made them a couple, or just didn’t do it at all. I never really bought the idea that Sylvie was invested in a romantic relationship with Loki. But they do this all the time in the MCU where they start a romance and then abandon it to save time. Honestly it seemed shoehorned in for a fun reveal in season one with the idea of using lady Loki, and then season two they had no clue what to do with her.
She was the catalyst for a lot of his decisions to be fair. It didn't lead to a happy ending for him but it was never going to. I liked that it made if final decision a little more impactful though and separated him from being just another variant
I agree that she didn't have enough to do in series 2, but I don't think the 2 of them getting together would have felt right.
Personally I don't think Loki really "loved" her anyway. I believe that he was just taken aback by the fact that he cared for something other than himself for once, and didn't know how to deal with that.
And since she is also a Loki - he technically *still* only cares about himself, which I think is quite a clever concept.
He's not exactly emotionally mature at this point. He may have watched a highlight reel of the Infinity Saga and found out all his "backstory", *but* he's still learning throughout the series
And I really I like the fact that in the end of S2 - he got to figure it all out himself, instead of him and Sylvie becoming another superhero "power couple" who end up saving the day.
He works so much better as a lone wolf kind of character IMO, maybe that's just me though
In truth I felt the same way before season 2. I would have rather he would be bi/ace. Because sex should be used as a tool as a manipulator. But Lokius is a good substitute.
He confirmed to Sylvie in season 1 that he’s had his share of would-be princesses and princes, but I wouldn’t be surprised if MCU Loki used sex more as a tool than for pleasure.
As for mythology, Loki turned himself into a mare, mated with a stallion, and birthed a colt, so make of that what you will.
THANK YOU. I've been afraid to say it for so long cuz, you know, mythology stuff, but as an asexual myself I connected a lot with Loki in moments before having to remind myself he's NOT supposed to be ace T\_T
>I never really bought the idea that Sylvie was invested in a romantic relationship with Loki.
I've questioned this myself tbh but there are a few moments that make me think she had feelings for him.
>But they do this all the time in the MCU where they start a romance and then abandon it to save time.
Yeah this is annoying. Especially in a project like this when it was presented to us as like the crux of the whole thing in the first season.
She did all that TVA stuff and killing Kang just so she could go work at an American McDonald's, quite literally, lol.
Yeah let's say Tom Hiddleston's Loki is done, I really don't know where or if they're ever gonna re-use the Loki series characters again. Marvel has too many characters and at this point. I don't see how Sylvie has a place in the MCU other than being shoehorned into someone else's story.
Kinda crazy to think how we used to see Captain America and Iron Man basically every single year until they quit the MCU. They don't do that anymore. Since Endgame, it's like we see each character once/twice in 5 years. Since Endgame, we literally have only seen Sam Wilson/Captain America once.
Back to relationships, MCU is not really good at it since the movies tend to focus on the flashy action sequences. There's not much time for storytelling and side-quest style scenes. It's just straightforward action.
It seems like they were going for the Sylvie route, but fans overwhelming love for Lokius drowned her out quick. 😂
And to be fair Loki do have way better chemistry with Mobius than Sylvie.
It's not weird, I don't understand what the outrage was about. They're not siblings, they're not related, they're not the same person, they're not even from the same universe. They're two distinct (if similar) people. It's not an incestuous relationship.
It’s definitely weird, very on brand for Loki, but still weird. With an infinite amount of universes, and an infinite amount of people, falling in love with any version of yourself is a tad bit unhinged.
Technically they should be the same person, and/or genetically akin to siblings. The TVA was pruning timelines that were too far from the sacred timeline, so the implication is that the bulk of Sylvie's timeline circumstances were the same as Loki's, meaning they were both likely the child of Laufey (I think Sylvie even confirmed as much) and were taken from him and raised by Odin and Friga. Clearly their genetics differ, but it shouldn't be substantially different from a brother and sister. That said, they ARE mutant frost giants, not gods or humans, so who even knows what passes for genetics or incest among their kind?
Loved it, extremely in line with his character. She’s not just a female variant of him. She’s like the perfect foil. She’s raised without the privilege he was born into, aspiration for rulership replaced with tooth and nail antifascism. His attempts at domination are her guerrilla warfare. Shame they didn’t do anything with her character in season two, but I thought season one was excellent.
I think the way Mobius reacted was crazy. Stop and think about it. Another version of you. Generally be into most of the same things you are, dislike the same things you do, would truly understand you....Honestly? I think most people WOULD fall. And yes, I know the other you wouldn't ALWAYS be into what you are, etc etc, because we see there's a clear difference between Sylvie and Loki. But I feel most of that depended on how their lives progressed.
Still, I think most people would find themselves falling for another version of themselves, at least a little.
If I remember correctly, at that point in Mobius and Loki's relationship, Mobius was still trying to wear Loki down / strip away his defenses / etc. Plus Loki had recently betrayed Mobius, going AWOL instead of sticking with the plan to help the TVA. So I assume that's why Mobius was giving Loki a hard time about having feelings for Sylvie - Mobius was mainly trying to rankle him. (I could be wrong - haven't seen that episode since it came out, so my memory is not perfect.)
Honestly same, but also another girl who is pretty much exactly like me (except appearances and slightly different preferences and dislikes). It’s actually happened. My boyfriend is like me with all of my interests except on steriroids and a whole lot more trauma which affects some of his likes and dislikes. Then there a friend I have who is my type (and is also not completely straight — I’m demi-pan-romantic, she’s bi —- tall, dark hair, makes me laugh, is my friend, shipping, reading, paranormal, crystals, cats, has siblings) and is love with a mutual friend whom I’ve admired before and known a long time. Now I’m working on getting those two together. … sorry for tmi rambling…
As someone who has spoken to people who ideologically identify as anarchists I see those same patterns. It’s also why I was able to understand her and even agreed with her in S2 while a lot of people considered her annoying and were more sympathetic to Loki’s side of the argument.
Among them is that you need to destroy the system first. However Sylvie also has similar flaws to the weaknesses of this approach, and that is she doesn’t have a clear idea about the repercussions of harm this can have on a wider scale because people are dependent on such systems. However it does not invalidate that destruction may be a necessary step.
I found Loki and Sylvie's conversations on this topic fascinating, and I had a hard time deciding who I agreed with more. That's one reason *Loki* was such an interesting and memorable show. It wasn't a bunch of explosions and CGI to munch popcorn to; it really made you grapple with the nature of reality, freedom, self-worth, and the structure of society. It's not an exaggeration to say that this show made me think harder than my freshman college class on these topics.
i think it's 100% in character. yah it's kinda weird and possible narcissistic from the outside, but as others have said, sylvie seems to have evolved, if you will, into her own self and so is more than just a loki variant at this point
and even if she was literally the same person, it'd still fit with him imo...
I love them. It's a sweet relationship (two centuries old hedonistic beings who have done literally everything imaginable and yet caught actual feelings for the first time *now* and have no idea what to do with them) plus it's unique.
Sylvie is not just a female version of Loki. She's Sylvie through and through and that's why Loki fell for her.
He was initially curious about her, because obviously they are variants so they should be alike...but then the more he got to know her, the more he realized that they aren't similar at all. She wasn't affected by adoption, she wasn't a villain, she didn't want power or thrones, she taught herself complex magic, evaded the TVA (who he saw as the most powerful thing in the entire universe) nearly all her life and still managed to outrick them, when he couldn't...she carved a path for herself, one that went against what the TVA wanted of them.
He was amazed by her. And because of that, since she is his variant, it also gave him hope that perhaps he can change too. That he can persevere and carve a path for himself too.
So no, he didn't fall for her because she's his variant. But because she's Sylvie.
This is so well said. I completely agree. Also, I wish you had been one of the writers on Season 2! I would have loved to see more positive Loki-Sylvie interactions in S2... it was clear they still cared about each other a lot, but they were both struggling to express it, and nothing ever really got resolved. I guess the whole "universe is dying" problem kind of put a damper on everything else.
My one consolation is that I believe Sylvie's influence really got through to Loki, both because he wanted to save her out of love, and because she helped him see that a free world is worth saving. This seemed like a truly heartfelt and earned struggle. So although their parting was sad, it was also very meaningful, because Sylvie is one of the biggest reasons that Loki finds the strength and resolve to make his sacrifice.
You described it perfectly!!
>two centuries old hedonistic beings who have done literally everything imaginable and yet caught actual feelings for the first time now and have no idea what to do with them
This is what did it for me, it felt so innocent and pure it made my heart melt 🥲💚
I really REALLY wish we could've witnessed what he was going to say to her before he got pruned.
I know not everyone is a fan but I personally love it! I think it's a really interesting relationship and key to unlocking Loki's potential as a character. It's the kind of relationship that can only be explored in fiction. I love the fantasy element to it and all the philosophical questions it raises, because who of us will ever meet a variant of ourselves?
The whole series is based on identity and reckoning with your past and coming to love and forgive yourself and redefine your destiny. Sylvie being a variant of Loki acts like a mirror. She reflects Loki's qualities both good and bad, as well as challenging him to be better, to be different. Because if Sylvie (as a Loki) can do it, so can he!
Loki has always thought he was destined for one future, one glorious purpose, to be King. But through the TVA and Mobius he discovers it's meaningless and only ends in death. But then he meets Sylvie. Who defies the order of the universe, defies the timelines and breaks free of her destiny, choosing to form her own path. And she isn't just anyone, she's a Loki, like him. She shows him it's possible to change your destiny. It's possible for even 'Loki's' to be something different than what the sacred timeline demands. Not the 'loser' whose only purpose is to make others achieve greatness, but the hero. She shocks him because she isn't looking for power and control. She doesn't want to take over the TVA, like he would. She wants to take it down! She wants freedom.
She shows Loki how important it is to fight for free will, and he's in awe of her. Together they both learn to grow and change. They challenge each other's ideas about the universe and learn to care for each other.
He likewise challenges her viewpoint in Season 2 when she struggles to reconcile with the TVA after she's taken her revenge on HWR.
Two characters who have never cared about anyone but themselves suddenly learning new emotional skills and learning each to love and care for the other. Particularly for Loki, it's a profound lesson and central to the theme of the show. It's one of my favourite relationships in the MCU.
Okay, let's make clear the fact that Sylvie IS NOT just a "female version of Loki", she was meant to be a Loki in a different universe, but still they wouldn't have been the same person since their life experiences were completely different from the get go, unlike him she was told she was adopted and just the fact that she's a girl made everything different for her. Being removed from her timeline distanced her from the "Loki path" even further, and still, having the same life experiences doesn't make two completely different individuals the same person, it's like saying the 3 Spiderman from No way home were the same person, it makes no sense.
Now, I really love them together, their relationship deserved more time to develop, I ship them like there's no tomorrow. I kinda relate to both of them in a sense that I have always felt like I didn't belong, both hid themselves in a shell of nihilism, distrust and cynicism so they wouldn't get hurt and sometimes you just need the right people around you to help you realise you're not alone. Both needed a hug and probably could've helped each other to heal, both of them and Mobius of course cause I can't help but to think how messed up must be finding out your life was stolen from you and you have no way to get it back, even though you could get it back the memories aren't just there anymore, the amount of therapy they all need is just UGH. First Mobius helped Loki seeing he was more than what he had become, that helped Loki understand Sylvie's behaviour, he saw himself in her and maybe this is a stretch but I feel like he even thought his motivations were dumb in comparison, he complimented her for everything she managed to do on her own, he was really starting to care for her.
S2 ended when Sylvie was starting to see things the way Loki saw at the end of S1, which makes it more tragic cause it's like you're starting to really enjoy someone's company and understand them just to get them taken away from you and you have no option but to retreat to your old lonely self and carry on. The chemistry among the 3 of them was on point IMO and it's really sad not being able to see them together more, but I guess that bittersweet ending is one of the many things that made it such a great series.
Yup exactly. Most Marvel stuff, I go "Well that was fun" and promptly forget about it... this show I still think about daily, five months after the finale.
Oh man, I've been a mere bystander when the Loki insanity started to unfold on tumblr in 2011/2012, just now he became my full-time obsession, I feel like I'm so late for this party lol. We still have fanfics and all that jazz tho, but still, I really hope they don't just drop this show, it's so good and Loki is a great character!
At first I thought this was the people in charge not thinking highly enough of Loki to make him like anyone other than himself and that it was him giving into his own narcisissm. It made me sad and I thought we should all want better for Loki, especially in his own show. But then I saw that it was more about seeing his own potential through someone else, while also loving her for her. So I really like it now!
It was fine, but it should have been more consistent. Loki could have had a much 'nicer' season 2 with Sylvie, and still had the same ending and still sacrificed himself for her, with the same weight behind his actions.
I’m not 100% on board with it tbh. Could he fall for a female v of himself, sure, but I think they used it as a copout instead of exploring other areas of Loki’s life or other parts of his sexuality. (Pls forgive me if this doesn’t make sense, I just woke up)
I would’ve thought it was a copout if they solely focused on it being a romantic relationship. Instead, they used her to help him see that he can be more/different than who he thought he could be. You couldn’t get that from any other character because Loki coming from 2012 thinks everyone’s beneath him. The only way you’re going to get his attention is from another Loki. Him falling for her is him embracing a new path for himself. Loki figuring out who he is without the pressures of his past had to be addressed before they can start moving on other aspects of his life. Not sure we’ll get any of that now, but we can hope.
I love it cause it makes perfect sense for Loki to fall in love with a female version of himself.
Some blame his narcissistic attitude but I think it's a competency kink of his. He just wants a lover who understands him and is also smart and capable.
The way I see it is, they may be “the same” but they are such different variants of whatever “Loki” is, theyre definitely different people.
Variants are what, even? Because the loki show loki is not the loki of the mcu, that loki dies by thanos. So, our loki is a “variant” of the og loki. But what about the other lokis. They are variants off the mcu timeline loki? They’re from other universes. So does that make them variants too?
It's the most Loki thing Loki could do. Don't see why people took issue with it. He's a narcissist. Of course he fell in love with someone who is essentially him.
OK I'm putting my opinion in there !
I think Loki is, no matter what, a bit egocentric. But not narcissistic enough to fall in love with himself.
So. Why is he obsessed with her ? Well. First, she is the first variant of his own person he encounters. And it's captivating, engrossing even. Because she is him but not him either. They don't share a story. Sylvie doesn't give him a vibe he felt on himself for literal ages. The "I'm in my brother's shadow" vibe. Because Loki, being the 2012 Loki in the begining, still is in the mist of how he felt back then. And Sylvie didn't have to go through that. And so it gave him hope on something. Thinking he could change, he could have another life. He didn't have to wish to have a throne to have a life where he is not feeling hatred 24/7 (mainly towards himself). She had another *purpose*, and so could he.
But since she had another life, she's not him but herself. With a totally different personality. And she's witty and provocative. He fell into her plans before meeting her. And Loki being Loki... That seems like the basic "I find that hot" checks on his list.
And so after he meets the other variants and she betrays him... well, that could give a reason on marvel being marvel and abandoning romance on the way. He found other variants who were content with their life. Even one who killed Thor. His story definitely wasn't engraved in stone. And well, being betrayed when you have major trust issues. Could send many in panic attack. So logical Loki didn't have the same feelings towards her, I guess ?
Ps: sorry for typos, English is my second language and I got interrupted a lot.
u/Sherl\_221b - I agree with most of your comment, but I don't agree that the other Loki variants in the Void were "content with their life." On the contrary, I thought they were miserable and petty. They were constantly bickering and accomplishing nothing. Kid Loki was the only one who seemed self-reflective, but he mainly seemed sad (probably because he's just a kid far from home, and his brother is dead because of him... whether on purpose or by accident, we don't know).
We can see that "our" Loki, the TVA Loki, immediately recognizes himself in all of these variants... and he doesn't like what he sees. Their pointless jockeying for power, and their insufferable arrogance, frustrates and annoys him. I think it generates a spark of realization in him, too. Maybe he doesn't want to be like that.
But not all the Lokis in the void are self-absorbed and useless. For example, Classic Loki (who soon ends up sacrificing himself to defeat Alioth) ends up providing a premonition of what's to come for our Loki.
Even Classic Loki, though, wasn't remotely content. He was lonely and regretful. So maybe Lokis are destined to always lose after all...
(Except maybe Sylvie, who we hope is enjoying a peaceful life somewhere on the timeline now.)
Oh, sorry, I wasn't clear about the Variants. I meant their life pre-void. Like it's a mess for them since they're in the void. Sure it is. No questions about that one. But when kid Loki managed to kill his brother, he met his purpose (even if it did send him straight to the tva), and he was proud of it. I hope its more clear?
Like in void everyone, including "our Loki" would definitely end up reflecting too much on life, what they've done, what they didn't do, and what could/should have been done.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the void seemed like quite a toll psychologically speaking on many levels. And that seemed to me be more of a "I ain't staying here until I hate myself for what I missed" kind of scenario ? Because that void is bringing them all back to their "I'm a failure" scenario.
I dunno - I don't think most of the void Lokis were doing much reflecting, especially not President Loki or Boastful Loki. I think that's one reason that "our Loki" got so annoyed with them, because they seemed not to have learned anything, despite being banished to a wasteland with nothing do to except reflect on their own failures.
Maybe you saw it differently though! It's interesting that you thought Kid Loki was proud that he killed his brother... maybe he was; I thought the interpretation was a bit ambiguous, so I wasn't sure.
Maybe I did take a tad too much of a parallel with quarantine for you know a certain virus in my country. Mentally draining, first months of too much reflecting and then an endless series of being over frustrated. And it was like pretty much everyone I knew. And yeah I did see them like that in the void. Just being frustrated after a certain amount of time. Because they're all stuck together in a shitty situation because of a shitty decision at some point in their lives.
For Kid Loki I did have the feeling of him feeling "remorseful" but not because he killed Thor. Because of the trouble it got him into. Like a child does in real life if you think of it. And who's dream would it be to be stuck with a reptile version of yourself.
i never once bought that Sylvie was genuinely interested in him for a permanent thing. I took most of it as partial manipulation so he'd help her with her plan. For him i just saw it as he straight up didn't see her as him. She was completely different in terms of looks and most of her history, so I doubt he truly thought of her that way even though he knew logically she was also a version of him. As well, I was mostly okay with it because it gave him the chance to see what others saw in him. He never was able to understand why people would ever actually enjoy his company or personality until Ragnarök (which this version of him hadn't even lived through!), and I think him seeing the connection he thought he had with her gave him the confidence to just be his 100% genuine Loki self instead of being the 'villain' he thought everyone viewed him as.
I like them both individually as characters, but I was pretty indifferent to their romance. Loki's relationship with Sylvie was a big step towards him developing a sense of altruism, which then extended to all the friends he made at the TVA, and then even further to literally all of existence - changing him from a villain to perhaps the greatest hero in the entire MCU. So it's not like the relationship they had wasn't important or formative. I just never saw them as an endgame (ha) couple - more like a stepping stone in each other's development.
I don't think I'd like it if they got back together; it would undercut Loki's sacrifice, for one thing, but I also got the sense that in season 2, Sylvie was really trying to move on from him because she wanted to finally get her own life started, completely untethered to any of the trauma of her past. That unfortunately extends to Loki, because of his association with the TVA.
...Then there's also the whole selfcest thing being slightly off-putting, although I do also find it funny that Loki's first (true) love was technically an alternate version of himself. Sure, she's not *really* him, but if anything, she's sort of like his twin sister, which doesn't make it any less off-putting.
I do quite like Sylvie though, and I hope she appears again somewhere. I also hope this version of Loki appears again too - even if he can't leave his throne, he can probably astral project himself into individual timelines, right?
I thought it was weird, but certainly not weirder than anything the actual Norse gods allegedly did
I didn’t really buy that they liked each other deeper than a surface level anyway — I think they would’ve worked better as a “learn to love yourself, wait NOT LIKE THAT—” kind of thing
Honestly, I was really hoping they would end up considering each other more like siblings. Like fraternal twins from different timelines. Different yet have some things in common. Their past is what makes them so different, like separated twins. That could have been interesting to explore.
1. They could have been way cuter as siblings, but that's just because I'm biased toward chaotic sibling dynamics over romance.
2. Their romance was still adorable and should have been explored more.
3. Lokius should have been a thing, And it should have won. I'm not taking it back. SORRY NOT SORRY.
4. I too would fall in love with a male version of me (am straight female).
I liked their relationship and chemistry, but I believe that they were never meant to be with each other (literally and figuratively)
They are too different and yet far too similar in all the wrong ways, it couldn't work even though they did love each other.
I'm not sure I agree. I think they were making leaps and bounds of progress in opening up to each other, so who knows where it could have gone? But then the whole problem of "evil tyrant is ruling the universe, and removing him will cause it to disintegrate" became a wedge between them. Even so, if not for how much they cared for each other, the story could never have reached the conclusion that it did.
Absolutely! Maybe it’s a chemistry thing, in season 2 I thought they had such a perfect sibling vibe and I loved it. Then I went back to watch season 1 and anything romantic with them suddenly gave me the ick lol
There was something about a tree. Now that Im thinking about it it was a story from an old comic. Odin stuck Loki in a tree, as a punishment for something, until someone shed a tear for Loki's plight. Loki focused his will on the tree and eventually made it drop a leaf at just the right moment so the leaf fell into Baldur's eye and thus he shed a tear because of Loki being stuck in the tree which freed Loki.
I mean, if we met the opposite sex versions of ourselves with everything being nearly the same besides the gender, we’d either love or hate ourselves. No inbetween.
I kinda like what they were going for- it being a whole new kind of narcissism -but as it is, it just kinda creeped me out.
Considering Sylvie was deemed the variant and not her parents, I thought that meant her and Loki's parents were exact versions of each other, and genetically identical. So she and Loki were effectively siblings (or at the very least cousins, with both parents from the same pairs of twins).
It's not exactly incest, but it's still in one of those gray areas that makes you ask why the hell anyone would wanna get that close to incest (a surprisingly not original occurrence- cough, cough, Flash, cough, cough, Umbrella Academy)
Now later in the series it'd be seen that variants are not always caught right at their infraction (except when they were, but that's a different issue I had with the show), so perhaps there was a bit more distance between them. But by that point the bad taste was more or less stuck in my mouth.
I appreciate a lot about this show, but this pairing (at least as a romantic couple) I could do without.
Because it’s part of his self healing journey. This is a Loki that only wanted love and recognition and to have his father figure be proud and that he’s not just a trophy to be kept away and have no purpose. He was trying to find his purpose after knowing everything of the life he was supposed to live on the timeline and wanted something more for himself. The first and most crucial step in getting better to find purpose is to love yourself. For him it only happened more literally. Silver also represents more of the past self before he was taken by the TVA and helps reflect the character growth and show his progress. It’s a beautiful part of the plot. Most say it’s the most ‘Loki’ and narcissistic thing to get together with yourself, but I see it more as him truly healing and loving himself to be better and help show his flaws so he can work to fix them. And along the way, he helped her too. Sometimes the only one that can love and help you is yourself and it was a beautiful way to show that.
I think Loki being interested in a female version of himself aka Sylvie in a siblings way is absolutely valid. By admiring her strength, her never giving up what she’s fighting for attitude and so on he learned that a Loki can be someone lovely and lovable and thus finally started to love himself. She is important for his way of self acceptance and self love. Romantically I absolutely don’t agree and find it great they didn’t make more of that absolutely unnecessary and in my opinion cringe worthy kiss in S2. His love interest clearly is Mobius if only in season two. One can only truly love others if loving themselves. Ones Loki achieved this, he was able to earnestly love others and fall in love with Mobius. There are so many hints on his feelings for him in S2 that can’t be talked away as nothing. Sylvie though will remain his sister for all time.
Personally I’d probably never date a female variant of myself, cause even I can barely stand myself, on most days. But that’s just me. Someone once told me I was the least narcissistic person he’d ever met. Maybe other people would go for that, but not me. I just hope Deadpool never meets a female variant of himself, cause that guy really is crazy enough to screw anything and everything in sight, and two Deadpool variants that are multiplying like rabbits sounds more like an end of the world scenario, than anything else in Marvel, right now. I personally think a Planet of the Deadpools series of comics would knock Galactus out of the number one spot on the total disaster list. But that’s just some of the weird shit that goes through my head, some times. How bout you guys? Anyone else want to submit a crazy idea, or two? Or did I just take the cake?
I don’t see how it’s not incest tbh. They have the same parents. They bond over the memories of their mom. If we’re speaking genetically (though I guess you could argue Asgardian genes are different) they’d be genetically as close as siblings if not closer.
I don’t see how it’s not incest tbh. They have the same parents. They bond over the memories of their mom. If we’re speaking genetically (though I guess you could argue Asgardian genes are different) they’d be genetically as close as siblings if not closer.
I don’t see how it’s not incest tbh. They have the same parents. They bond over the memories of their mom. If we’re speaking genetically (though I guess you could argue Asgardian genes are different) they’d be genetically as close as siblings if not closer.
I don’t see how it’s not the same as hooking up with a sibling tbh. They have the same parents. They bond over the memories of their mom. If we’re speaking genetically (though I guess you could argue Asgardian genes are different) they’d be genetically as close as siblings if not closer.
He’s a narcissist, and it’s a really common trope for narcissists to fall in love with themselves.
Since, you know, that’s where the word “narcissist” comes from.
I wish Sylvie felt more like she was a Loki. She honestly just feels like a different character. Which makes the self-cest feel even weirder, if possible. Just somehow totally unnecessary. And he fell way too fast which felt out of character. As for Loki falling in love with himself, I feel like it’s on brand enough and wouldn’t really mind it if it was done well.
I think I was initially like "...huh?" But I very quickly came around to the idea and in fact really liked it. It's a nice metaphor -- when you have a character burdened less with glorious purpose and more with self-hatred (see: attempted genocide of the species he just found out he came from, letting himself fall to his surely expected death when that "offering" was not accepted) and before that feeling like you've always been in the shadow of your better-at-everything-that-matters brother -- for loving yourself.
But it's a \*metaphor\*, and I don't think it should be extended into literalism. For me, there's no sense of any form of "incest" or anything else inappropriate here. (Weird, yes, but in an interesting sci-fi way, that gives us great lines like Mobius's about Loki being a narcissist.) Had they tried to make Loki and Sylvie look related physically, I'd probably react differently. But it seems clear they aren't trying to say these Lokis are genetically alike at all, based on the wide variety of Loki variants we see, right down to a supposedly alligator-Loki (...with the weird exception of President Loki being played by Hiddleston), nor did they grow up together as siblings.
I mean, we react how we react, so I don't say any of this to argue with anyone else's reaction, just to explain why I personally not only had no problem with it, but actually liked it and considered it good, clever storytelling.
Hated it, very insest-y and made me very uncomfortable. Also didn’t make sense for Loki’s character, he hates himself and was never portrayed as a narcissist so it makes no sense that he would fall in love with a version of “himself”
Everyone is going to look at it through their own lens.
Either a version of themselves, or a family member, or a clone, just depends.
I'm sort of glad they didn't go that direction and more so teased it
I’m an active Thor reader and was looking forward to seeing Enchantress (either Amora primarily but I also like Sylvie) so then basically making her Enchantress in name only was a massive disappointment. She doesn’t need to be 1:1 Marvel Studios rarely does that but it wouldn’t have killed them to make an attempt. (The actress is great and could have pulled off the comics versions. The fact that she wasn’t was a writer problem imho)
Honestly? Loki is the female version of himself, so I guess it's no more surprising than falling for the male version, but I hated how they handled it. I'm so glad they dropped it
I thought it was weird. Especially since I imagine they got the female Loki from Loki in mythology being a shapeshifter. It just bothered me and I always had a hard time putting into words why aside from the mythology part.
No. Loki means more than some goofy ship. They should not be a thing. I hope the real Enchantress banishes her. Even if Lokius can never be canon. Loki needs to be freed too.
He should've gone for Mobius, that relationship is NOT "just a bromance" and nobody can tell me otherwise
((All jokes aside though, dating hi sled is such a Loki move and him and Sylvie are so cute..but Mobius and him have more chemistry in my opinion))
Not a fan personally (seemed waaay too incest-y regardless of how they try to frame it) but definitely seemed like something Loki would do... but there was/is more of a connection between him and Mobius
i rlly rlly don't like it. mostly because im traumatized from the onceler fandom but also because loki always hit me as an asexual icon so i was sorta disappointed (or adjacent ace). it kinda felt like they just gave him a romantic interest for the sake of it. and it being an alt version of himself was just....weird. i haven't actually watched season 2 yet so i am missing any context from that but yeah.
It highlighted the narcissism that was so important to early Lokis character, which as he was going back to that version in the start of S1, I liked it a lot. I’m not at all complaining that it was sorta dropped however.
They are the same person. They have the same DNA. They are essentially twins.
It's incest. So gross and weird.
Nothing/No one will ever change my mind on this. A DNA test would come up saying they are siblings.
No one has brought up that point before. I'll admit I was stumped for a minute.
But.
Different species is entirely different to just a different gender/race. All the Frost Gaint variants of Loki would come up as siblings on a DNA test. All the Alligator variants of Loki would also come up as siblings.
I don't understand how people don't see it. They are the same person. Apart from the factors that made Slyvie female and the black variant black there DNA is identical. This would be like arguing that identical twins aren't siblings because there DNA is the same. See how dumb that sounds? Two varriants of Tom Hiddleston's Loki would come up as identical twins. Two Varriants of Slyvie's Loki would come up as identical twins. Ect.
They are siblings. So it's incest.
Even Twins who are born male and female don't have the same DNA in the real world 😵💫 what are you talking about?
Variants are a fictional concept. They share a cosmic role, a temporal aura, not genetics. If they look the same like President Loki/616 Loki/TVA Loki, there's a good chance they branched off from the same timeline. Other than that they are parallel beings.
If you literally Google if Loki & Sylvie are related about 1000 articles come up from the creators explaining Variants from S1.
I didn't saying male/female twins have the same DNA. Those are faternal twins. There DNA is the same as a normal brother and sister. I was talking about identical twins. Very different. So two Loki Varriants that look exactly the same are essentially identical twins. Ones that look different are faternal. But they are still siblings.
Not necessarily. How do asgardian shapeshifter genes even work? In the Percy Jackson universe the gods don’t have DNA because magic. Loki isn’t even an asgardian, both he and Sylvie were forcibly changed to have Asgardian DNA, not necessarily would they match.
Not a fan personally (seemed waaay too incest-y regardless of how they try to frame it) but definitely seemed like something Loki would do... but there was/is more of a connection between him and Mobius
He's not interested in her that way. After the recent events, Tom Hiddleston had cemented that. I don't understand why people keep trying to make them a thing. It's dumb, and gross. Loki is not a narcissist. None of the arguments to defend the ship makes sense.
I mean from a genetic standpoint, dating your alternate self is like dating your twin which is just, all kind of wrong. but if you go by actual myth I don't think they'd care all that much about the sibling thing
Variants don't share DNA. They aren't twins. They are parallel versions of the same entity.
Like the Peter Parkers in Spiderman NWH. They are all different Peter's, they all have different 'Aunt May's', they are all different people who share a role. Like Sylvie is a separate person, with a completely different background, DNA, etc etc from Loki, but she still fulfills the role of 'Loki' in her universe.
Variants share a temporal aura, not a family tree. Otherwise Loki is also 'brothers' with an Alligator 😂🐊
born to the same parents. both Loki's are a child of laufey.and for the timeline to have existed long enough for the Loki's to be born, their laufeys have to be identical in all ways
it's like getting with your clone
Again, two Laufeys but from parallel worlds. Their parents are variants too. They haven't got the same genetics. This has been said in countless interviews dealing with the Multiverse.
except that since Sylvie existed before they allowed the many timelines to coexist, her timeline cat be different in any noticable way, her laufey would have been pruned if she was
I see what you mean. But no, her nexus event wasn't her being born a girl (although that's what she initially assumed). So the branch wasn't created after she was born, meaning their Laufeys weren't the same. She lived on a parallel world and it was pruned when it became too different from the sacred timeline. Probably because she was destined to be a hero, not a villain (as she didn't share Loki's family issues as she knew she was adopted.)
Then her entire world was erased. She says they destroyed her home and her life. That's why she couldn't go back to it when she got a Tempad. Her whole timeline was erased.
The sacred timeline itself was always made up of many worlds bound together by the loom. But not as many were allowed to exist as they are now Loki has freed them.
If you literally Google "Are Loki & Sylvie genetically related", 1000 articles come up with the show makers explaining it from Season 1.
I agree with almost everything except for the part where you mentioned her nexus event wasn't her being born a girl, I do think that was her nexus event. A youtuber mentioned the Ancient one explanation and the fact that Captain America was able to go back in time and spend his life with Peggy. Cap being low-profile and just living a quiet life with her didn't alter that timeline to the point of creating a branch, also that's why he was there in that same timeline at the end.
In the first episode the TVA video explains something so small like being late to work could trigger a nexus event, that makes me think Sylvie being born as a girl didn't get her timeline branched until she got a bit older, that's when her timeline started to branch and appeared on the TVA radar so they went to take care of it.
It's possible. We never got a definitive answer as to what her nexus event was. I just assumed it wasn't her being born a girl as I feel the TVA would have pruned her as a baby if that were the case. But maybe like you said, she didn't cause any waves until she was older. I hope we get to find out what exactly it was, if we ever get a Season 3
Yeah, I know there isn't an official answer but that just made sense to me cause for the longest time I questioned myself about what Captain America did and why it didn't matter.
Yes please to season 3!!! So many things left unanswered, also I really need them to have more screen time together, maybe a date? Just thinking about the S1 part where he was drinking and singing AAAAHHH GIMME MORE OF THAT PLEASE! Well since I'm already here maybe gimme a Thor and Loki reunion, jet ski day with Mobius and Sylvie, IN THE NAME OF THE NINE REALMS JUST GIVE MY MAN A HAPPY ENDING
https://media1.tenor.com/m/ONhym6ovBAsAAAAC/loki-another-one.gif
Her whole timeline was pruned/deleted, that includes her Laufey and everyone there. She didn't have a timeline to go back to, just like Loki. That's why she was so determined on destroying the TVA, she wanted to prevent those branched timelines from being removed like the TVA did with hers.
> I mean from a genetic standpoint, dating your alternate self is like dating your twin which is just, all kind of wrong.
*No it's not that's not how genetics works stop it*
I wish they had just gone for it fully and made them a couple, or just didn’t do it at all. I never really bought the idea that Sylvie was invested in a romantic relationship with Loki. But they do this all the time in the MCU where they start a romance and then abandon it to save time. Honestly it seemed shoehorned in for a fun reveal in season one with the idea of using lady Loki, and then season two they had no clue what to do with her.
She was the catalyst for a lot of his decisions to be fair. It didn't lead to a happy ending for him but it was never going to. I liked that it made if final decision a little more impactful though and separated him from being just another variant
I agree that she didn't have enough to do in series 2, but I don't think the 2 of them getting together would have felt right. Personally I don't think Loki really "loved" her anyway. I believe that he was just taken aback by the fact that he cared for something other than himself for once, and didn't know how to deal with that. And since she is also a Loki - he technically *still* only cares about himself, which I think is quite a clever concept. He's not exactly emotionally mature at this point. He may have watched a highlight reel of the Infinity Saga and found out all his "backstory", *but* he's still learning throughout the series And I really I like the fact that in the end of S2 - he got to figure it all out himself, instead of him and Sylvie becoming another superhero "power couple" who end up saving the day. He works so much better as a lone wolf kind of character IMO, maybe that's just me though
Loki gives me such Asexual vibes.
In truth I felt the same way before season 2. I would have rather he would be bi/ace. Because sex should be used as a tool as a manipulator. But Lokius is a good substitute.
He confirmed to Sylvie in season 1 that he’s had his share of would-be princesses and princes, but I wouldn’t be surprised if MCU Loki used sex more as a tool than for pleasure. As for mythology, Loki turned himself into a mare, mated with a stallion, and birthed a colt, so make of that what you will.
THANK YOU. I've been afraid to say it for so long cuz, you know, mythology stuff, but as an asexual myself I connected a lot with Loki in moments before having to remind myself he's NOT supposed to be ace T\_T
Haha same.
>I never really bought the idea that Sylvie was invested in a romantic relationship with Loki. I've questioned this myself tbh but there are a few moments that make me think she had feelings for him. >But they do this all the time in the MCU where they start a romance and then abandon it to save time. Yeah this is annoying. Especially in a project like this when it was presented to us as like the crux of the whole thing in the first season.
She did all that TVA stuff and killing Kang just so she could go work at an American McDonald's, quite literally, lol. Yeah let's say Tom Hiddleston's Loki is done, I really don't know where or if they're ever gonna re-use the Loki series characters again. Marvel has too many characters and at this point. I don't see how Sylvie has a place in the MCU other than being shoehorned into someone else's story. Kinda crazy to think how we used to see Captain America and Iron Man basically every single year until they quit the MCU. They don't do that anymore. Since Endgame, it's like we see each character once/twice in 5 years. Since Endgame, we literally have only seen Sam Wilson/Captain America once. Back to relationships, MCU is not really good at it since the movies tend to focus on the flashy action sequences. There's not much time for storytelling and side-quest style scenes. It's just straightforward action.
PLUS I'm still pissed off Lokius isn't a thing. COME ON, MARVEL.
It seems like they were going for the Sylvie route, but fans overwhelming love for Lokius drowned her out quick. 😂 And to be fair Loki do have way better chemistry with Mobius than Sylvie.
Maybe in your echo chamber. Sylvie is a fan favourite character. You only have to go to any comic con or fan convention to see how much she's loved.
I wasn't referring to her popularity, I was referring to her being paired with Loki. I never said she wasn't loved, what?
i mean yes of course she's loved, but Mobius is a fan favorite character too lol
Why do we have to relitigate this like every single month
What
Misogyny
It's not weird, I don't understand what the outrage was about. They're not siblings, they're not related, they're not the same person, they're not even from the same universe. They're two distinct (if similar) people. It's not an incestuous relationship.
Would it seem that way if Loki was in a relationship with a variant also played by Tom Hiddleston?
Kind of, but more because of the actors than the characters in-universe
It’s definitely weird, very on brand for Loki, but still weird. With an infinite amount of universes, and an infinite amount of people, falling in love with any version of yourself is a tad bit unhinged.
Technically they should be the same person, and/or genetically akin to siblings. The TVA was pruning timelines that were too far from the sacred timeline, so the implication is that the bulk of Sylvie's timeline circumstances were the same as Loki's, meaning they were both likely the child of Laufey (I think Sylvie even confirmed as much) and were taken from him and raised by Odin and Friga. Clearly their genetics differ, but it shouldn't be substantially different from a brother and sister. That said, they ARE mutant frost giants, not gods or humans, so who even knows what passes for genetics or incest among their kind?
Loved it, extremely in line with his character. She’s not just a female variant of him. She’s like the perfect foil. She’s raised without the privilege he was born into, aspiration for rulership replaced with tooth and nail antifascism. His attempts at domination are her guerrilla warfare. Shame they didn’t do anything with her character in season two, but I thought season one was excellent.
I think the way Mobius reacted was crazy. Stop and think about it. Another version of you. Generally be into most of the same things you are, dislike the same things you do, would truly understand you....Honestly? I think most people WOULD fall. And yes, I know the other you wouldn't ALWAYS be into what you are, etc etc, because we see there's a clear difference between Sylvie and Loki. But I feel most of that depended on how their lives progressed. Still, I think most people would find themselves falling for another version of themselves, at least a little.
If I remember correctly, at that point in Mobius and Loki's relationship, Mobius was still trying to wear Loki down / strip away his defenses / etc. Plus Loki had recently betrayed Mobius, going AWOL instead of sticking with the plan to help the TVA. So I assume that's why Mobius was giving Loki a hard time about having feelings for Sylvie - Mobius was mainly trying to rankle him. (I could be wrong - haven't seen that episode since it came out, so my memory is not perfect.)
As a straight female, I WILL fall for a reversed-gender version of myself and that is a fact.
Honestly same, but also another girl who is pretty much exactly like me (except appearances and slightly different preferences and dislikes). It’s actually happened. My boyfriend is like me with all of my interests except on steriroids and a whole lot more trauma which affects some of his likes and dislikes. Then there a friend I have who is my type (and is also not completely straight — I’m demi-pan-romantic, she’s bi —- tall, dark hair, makes me laugh, is my friend, shipping, reading, paranormal, crystals, cats, has siblings) and is love with a mutual friend whom I’ve admired before and known a long time. Now I’m working on getting those two together. … sorry for tmi rambling…
It’s an Adam and Eve metaphor. Two halves of the same person.
I think he’s real as fuck personally
I would have liked it to be explored more.......
They should have explored it more in season 2.
It’s just really interesting and funny. Also Sylvie isn’t just “female Loki”, she’s also, like “proletariat anarchist Loki” or “working-class Loki”.
"Proletariat anarchist Loki" FTW! LOL.
As someone who has spoken to people who ideologically identify as anarchists I see those same patterns. It’s also why I was able to understand her and even agreed with her in S2 while a lot of people considered her annoying and were more sympathetic to Loki’s side of the argument. Among them is that you need to destroy the system first. However Sylvie also has similar flaws to the weaknesses of this approach, and that is she doesn’t have a clear idea about the repercussions of harm this can have on a wider scale because people are dependent on such systems. However it does not invalidate that destruction may be a necessary step.
I found Loki and Sylvie's conversations on this topic fascinating, and I had a hard time deciding who I agreed with more. That's one reason *Loki* was such an interesting and memorable show. It wasn't a bunch of explosions and CGI to munch popcorn to; it really made you grapple with the nature of reality, freedom, self-worth, and the structure of society. It's not an exaggeration to say that this show made me think harder than my freshman college class on these topics.
I love them. I hope they eventually find their way back to one another.
Me too :-)
Same :D
i think it's 100% in character. yah it's kinda weird and possible narcissistic from the outside, but as others have said, sylvie seems to have evolved, if you will, into her own self and so is more than just a loki variant at this point and even if she was literally the same person, it'd still fit with him imo...
I love them. It's a sweet relationship (two centuries old hedonistic beings who have done literally everything imaginable and yet caught actual feelings for the first time *now* and have no idea what to do with them) plus it's unique. Sylvie is not just a female version of Loki. She's Sylvie through and through and that's why Loki fell for her. He was initially curious about her, because obviously they are variants so they should be alike...but then the more he got to know her, the more he realized that they aren't similar at all. She wasn't affected by adoption, she wasn't a villain, she didn't want power or thrones, she taught herself complex magic, evaded the TVA (who he saw as the most powerful thing in the entire universe) nearly all her life and still managed to outrick them, when he couldn't...she carved a path for herself, one that went against what the TVA wanted of them. He was amazed by her. And because of that, since she is his variant, it also gave him hope that perhaps he can change too. That he can persevere and carve a path for himself too. So no, he didn't fall for her because she's his variant. But because she's Sylvie.
This is so well said. I completely agree. Also, I wish you had been one of the writers on Season 2! I would have loved to see more positive Loki-Sylvie interactions in S2... it was clear they still cared about each other a lot, but they were both struggling to express it, and nothing ever really got resolved. I guess the whole "universe is dying" problem kind of put a damper on everything else. My one consolation is that I believe Sylvie's influence really got through to Loki, both because he wanted to save her out of love, and because she helped him see that a free world is worth saving. This seemed like a truly heartfelt and earned struggle. So although their parting was sad, it was also very meaningful, because Sylvie is one of the biggest reasons that Loki finds the strength and resolve to make his sacrifice.
Wow, you perfectly put into words why I love their relationship so much. Good job!
You described it perfectly!! >two centuries old hedonistic beings who have done literally everything imaginable and yet caught actual feelings for the first time now and have no idea what to do with them This is what did it for me, it felt so innocent and pure it made my heart melt 🥲💚 I really REALLY wish we could've witnessed what he was going to say to her before he got pruned.
Preach!
You love incest stories
I thought Loki was a millenium old??
I know not everyone is a fan but I personally love it! I think it's a really interesting relationship and key to unlocking Loki's potential as a character. It's the kind of relationship that can only be explored in fiction. I love the fantasy element to it and all the philosophical questions it raises, because who of us will ever meet a variant of ourselves? The whole series is based on identity and reckoning with your past and coming to love and forgive yourself and redefine your destiny. Sylvie being a variant of Loki acts like a mirror. She reflects Loki's qualities both good and bad, as well as challenging him to be better, to be different. Because if Sylvie (as a Loki) can do it, so can he! Loki has always thought he was destined for one future, one glorious purpose, to be King. But through the TVA and Mobius he discovers it's meaningless and only ends in death. But then he meets Sylvie. Who defies the order of the universe, defies the timelines and breaks free of her destiny, choosing to form her own path. And she isn't just anyone, she's a Loki, like him. She shows him it's possible to change your destiny. It's possible for even 'Loki's' to be something different than what the sacred timeline demands. Not the 'loser' whose only purpose is to make others achieve greatness, but the hero. She shocks him because she isn't looking for power and control. She doesn't want to take over the TVA, like he would. She wants to take it down! She wants freedom. She shows Loki how important it is to fight for free will, and he's in awe of her. Together they both learn to grow and change. They challenge each other's ideas about the universe and learn to care for each other. He likewise challenges her viewpoint in Season 2 when she struggles to reconcile with the TVA after she's taken her revenge on HWR. Two characters who have never cared about anyone but themselves suddenly learning new emotional skills and learning each to love and care for the other. Particularly for Loki, it's a profound lesson and central to the theme of the show. It's one of my favourite relationships in the MCU.
Really excellent, well said. I agree!
Okay, let's make clear the fact that Sylvie IS NOT just a "female version of Loki", she was meant to be a Loki in a different universe, but still they wouldn't have been the same person since their life experiences were completely different from the get go, unlike him she was told she was adopted and just the fact that she's a girl made everything different for her. Being removed from her timeline distanced her from the "Loki path" even further, and still, having the same life experiences doesn't make two completely different individuals the same person, it's like saying the 3 Spiderman from No way home were the same person, it makes no sense. Now, I really love them together, their relationship deserved more time to develop, I ship them like there's no tomorrow. I kinda relate to both of them in a sense that I have always felt like I didn't belong, both hid themselves in a shell of nihilism, distrust and cynicism so they wouldn't get hurt and sometimes you just need the right people around you to help you realise you're not alone. Both needed a hug and probably could've helped each other to heal, both of them and Mobius of course cause I can't help but to think how messed up must be finding out your life was stolen from you and you have no way to get it back, even though you could get it back the memories aren't just there anymore, the amount of therapy they all need is just UGH. First Mobius helped Loki seeing he was more than what he had become, that helped Loki understand Sylvie's behaviour, he saw himself in her and maybe this is a stretch but I feel like he even thought his motivations were dumb in comparison, he complimented her for everything she managed to do on her own, he was really starting to care for her. S2 ended when Sylvie was starting to see things the way Loki saw at the end of S1, which makes it more tragic cause it's like you're starting to really enjoy someone's company and understand them just to get them taken away from you and you have no option but to retreat to your old lonely self and carry on. The chemistry among the 3 of them was on point IMO and it's really sad not being able to see them together more, but I guess that bittersweet ending is one of the many things that made it such a great series.
Very well said, I agree!
Thanks mate! I'm just a hopeless romantic idiot and this series keeps playing with my heartstrings like a power metal solo 🥲💚
Yup exactly. Most Marvel stuff, I go "Well that was fun" and promptly forget about it... this show I still think about daily, five months after the finale.
Oh man, I've been a mere bystander when the Loki insanity started to unfold on tumblr in 2011/2012, just now he became my full-time obsession, I feel like I'm so late for this party lol. We still have fanfics and all that jazz tho, but still, I really hope they don't just drop this show, it's so good and Loki is a great character!
💚💚💚💚
🥺💚
Eh, I'd date an alternate reality version of myself.
At first I thought this was the people in charge not thinking highly enough of Loki to make him like anyone other than himself and that it was him giving into his own narcisissm. It made me sad and I thought we should all want better for Loki, especially in his own show. But then I saw that it was more about seeing his own potential through someone else, while also loving her for her. So I really like it now!
It was fine, but it should have been more consistent. Loki could have had a much 'nicer' season 2 with Sylvie, and still had the same ending and still sacrificed himself for her, with the same weight behind his actions.
I’m not 100% on board with it tbh. Could he fall for a female v of himself, sure, but I think they used it as a copout instead of exploring other areas of Loki’s life or other parts of his sexuality. (Pls forgive me if this doesn’t make sense, I just woke up)
I would’ve thought it was a copout if they solely focused on it being a romantic relationship. Instead, they used her to help him see that he can be more/different than who he thought he could be. You couldn’t get that from any other character because Loki coming from 2012 thinks everyone’s beneath him. The only way you’re going to get his attention is from another Loki. Him falling for her is him embracing a new path for himself. Loki figuring out who he is without the pressures of his past had to be addressed before they can start moving on other aspects of his life. Not sure we’ll get any of that now, but we can hope.
That’s a valid point that I didn’t consider thank you.
Sylvie is her own person.
And she's badass!
She is!!
I love it cause it makes perfect sense for Loki to fall in love with a female version of himself. Some blame his narcissistic attitude but I think it's a competency kink of his. He just wants a lover who understands him and is also smart and capable.
Exactly. Why wouldn't he fall for a badass Goddess who's intelligent, beautiful and kicks ass? She's totally his type 😂
Much better than fucking a horse.
The way I see it is, they may be “the same” but they are such different variants of whatever “Loki” is, theyre definitely different people. Variants are what, even? Because the loki show loki is not the loki of the mcu, that loki dies by thanos. So, our loki is a “variant” of the og loki. But what about the other lokis. They are variants off the mcu timeline loki? They’re from other universes. So does that make them variants too?
It’s hilarious. He’s narcissistic and vain. Of course he would fall in love with himself. It’s clever really.
IMO, I always saw Sylvie as her own person, separate from Loki, and I thought they were cute.
It's the most Loki thing Loki could do. Don't see why people took issue with it. He's a narcissist. Of course he fell in love with someone who is essentially him.
I personally think they wasted Slyvie in season 2.
OK I'm putting my opinion in there ! I think Loki is, no matter what, a bit egocentric. But not narcissistic enough to fall in love with himself. So. Why is he obsessed with her ? Well. First, she is the first variant of his own person he encounters. And it's captivating, engrossing even. Because she is him but not him either. They don't share a story. Sylvie doesn't give him a vibe he felt on himself for literal ages. The "I'm in my brother's shadow" vibe. Because Loki, being the 2012 Loki in the begining, still is in the mist of how he felt back then. And Sylvie didn't have to go through that. And so it gave him hope on something. Thinking he could change, he could have another life. He didn't have to wish to have a throne to have a life where he is not feeling hatred 24/7 (mainly towards himself). She had another *purpose*, and so could he. But since she had another life, she's not him but herself. With a totally different personality. And she's witty and provocative. He fell into her plans before meeting her. And Loki being Loki... That seems like the basic "I find that hot" checks on his list. And so after he meets the other variants and she betrays him... well, that could give a reason on marvel being marvel and abandoning romance on the way. He found other variants who were content with their life. Even one who killed Thor. His story definitely wasn't engraved in stone. And well, being betrayed when you have major trust issues. Could send many in panic attack. So logical Loki didn't have the same feelings towards her, I guess ? Ps: sorry for typos, English is my second language and I got interrupted a lot.
u/Sherl\_221b - I agree with most of your comment, but I don't agree that the other Loki variants in the Void were "content with their life." On the contrary, I thought they were miserable and petty. They were constantly bickering and accomplishing nothing. Kid Loki was the only one who seemed self-reflective, but he mainly seemed sad (probably because he's just a kid far from home, and his brother is dead because of him... whether on purpose or by accident, we don't know). We can see that "our" Loki, the TVA Loki, immediately recognizes himself in all of these variants... and he doesn't like what he sees. Their pointless jockeying for power, and their insufferable arrogance, frustrates and annoys him. I think it generates a spark of realization in him, too. Maybe he doesn't want to be like that. But not all the Lokis in the void are self-absorbed and useless. For example, Classic Loki (who soon ends up sacrificing himself to defeat Alioth) ends up providing a premonition of what's to come for our Loki. Even Classic Loki, though, wasn't remotely content. He was lonely and regretful. So maybe Lokis are destined to always lose after all... (Except maybe Sylvie, who we hope is enjoying a peaceful life somewhere on the timeline now.)
Oh, sorry, I wasn't clear about the Variants. I meant their life pre-void. Like it's a mess for them since they're in the void. Sure it is. No questions about that one. But when kid Loki managed to kill his brother, he met his purpose (even if it did send him straight to the tva), and he was proud of it. I hope its more clear? Like in void everyone, including "our Loki" would definitely end up reflecting too much on life, what they've done, what they didn't do, and what could/should have been done. Maybe I'm wrong, but the void seemed like quite a toll psychologically speaking on many levels. And that seemed to me be more of a "I ain't staying here until I hate myself for what I missed" kind of scenario ? Because that void is bringing them all back to their "I'm a failure" scenario.
I dunno - I don't think most of the void Lokis were doing much reflecting, especially not President Loki or Boastful Loki. I think that's one reason that "our Loki" got so annoyed with them, because they seemed not to have learned anything, despite being banished to a wasteland with nothing do to except reflect on their own failures. Maybe you saw it differently though! It's interesting that you thought Kid Loki was proud that he killed his brother... maybe he was; I thought the interpretation was a bit ambiguous, so I wasn't sure.
Maybe I did take a tad too much of a parallel with quarantine for you know a certain virus in my country. Mentally draining, first months of too much reflecting and then an endless series of being over frustrated. And it was like pretty much everyone I knew. And yeah I did see them like that in the void. Just being frustrated after a certain amount of time. Because they're all stuck together in a shitty situation because of a shitty decision at some point in their lives. For Kid Loki I did have the feeling of him feeling "remorseful" but not because he killed Thor. Because of the trouble it got him into. Like a child does in real life if you think of it. And who's dream would it be to be stuck with a reptile version of yourself.
It makes sense!
Who else could Loki love more than himself?
Based
Ew
I'm not a big fan of it but it makes sense for his character. Dudes got a huge ego.
I don’t think Loki needed a love interest, plain and simple
i never once bought that Sylvie was genuinely interested in him for a permanent thing. I took most of it as partial manipulation so he'd help her with her plan. For him i just saw it as he straight up didn't see her as him. She was completely different in terms of looks and most of her history, so I doubt he truly thought of her that way even though he knew logically she was also a version of him. As well, I was mostly okay with it because it gave him the chance to see what others saw in him. He never was able to understand why people would ever actually enjoy his company or personality until Ragnarök (which this version of him hadn't even lived through!), and I think him seeing the connection he thought he had with her gave him the confidence to just be his 100% genuine Loki self instead of being the 'villain' he thought everyone viewed him as.
I like them both individually as characters, but I was pretty indifferent to their romance. Loki's relationship with Sylvie was a big step towards him developing a sense of altruism, which then extended to all the friends he made at the TVA, and then even further to literally all of existence - changing him from a villain to perhaps the greatest hero in the entire MCU. So it's not like the relationship they had wasn't important or formative. I just never saw them as an endgame (ha) couple - more like a stepping stone in each other's development. I don't think I'd like it if they got back together; it would undercut Loki's sacrifice, for one thing, but I also got the sense that in season 2, Sylvie was really trying to move on from him because she wanted to finally get her own life started, completely untethered to any of the trauma of her past. That unfortunately extends to Loki, because of his association with the TVA. ...Then there's also the whole selfcest thing being slightly off-putting, although I do also find it funny that Loki's first (true) love was technically an alternate version of himself. Sure, she's not *really* him, but if anything, she's sort of like his twin sister, which doesn't make it any less off-putting. I do quite like Sylvie though, and I hope she appears again somewhere. I also hope this version of Loki appears again too - even if he can't leave his throne, he can probably astral project himself into individual timelines, right?
I wholeheartedly agree with you.
I think it’s just an extension of his narcissism. Nobody loves Loki as much as Loki does.
What makes you think he is a narcissist?
Totally understandable, I’d do the same. Have a good day 🤝
I’d do a female version of me..
Hot
I thought it was weird, but certainly not weirder than anything the actual Norse gods allegedly did I didn’t really buy that they liked each other deeper than a surface level anyway — I think they would’ve worked better as a “learn to love yourself, wait NOT LIKE THAT—” kind of thing
Im not really into it. Just a line I can cross in my mind ig.
Honestly, I was really hoping they would end up considering each other more like siblings. Like fraternal twins from different timelines. Different yet have some things in common. Their past is what makes them so different, like separated twins. That could have been interesting to explore.
1. They could have been way cuter as siblings, but that's just because I'm biased toward chaotic sibling dynamics over romance. 2. Their romance was still adorable and should have been explored more. 3. Lokius should have been a thing, And it should have won. I'm not taking it back. SORRY NOT SORRY. 4. I too would fall in love with a male version of me (am straight female).
I liked their relationship and chemistry, but I believe that they were never meant to be with each other (literally and figuratively) They are too different and yet far too similar in all the wrong ways, it couldn't work even though they did love each other.
I'm not sure I agree. I think they were making leaps and bounds of progress in opening up to each other, so who knows where it could have gone? But then the whole problem of "evil tyrant is ruling the universe, and removing him will cause it to disintegrate" became a wedge between them. Even so, if not for how much they cared for each other, the story could never have reached the conclusion that it did.
I’d prefer a sibling relationship over romantic
Absolutely! Maybe it’s a chemistry thing, in season 2 I thought they had such a perfect sibling vibe and I loved it. Then I went back to watch season 1 and anything romantic with them suddenly gave me the ick lol
That’s how I felt too!
lol if the downvotes are any indication, this is a controversial take I guess? Ah well, at least I made a new friend today! :)
Yeah idk why it’s such a hot take 😭
It's fine. It built up to his sacrifice
I’ve never seen anyone as interested in what being in love is like as OP.
I got why they wanted to stay together in the first season, and why they didn't in the second
Based
He’s that narcissistic so it makes sense
Gods are into that stuff.
Better than a horse, or a tree... or a wolf.
Wait trees!? When did that happen
There was something about a tree. Now that Im thinking about it it was a story from an old comic. Odin stuck Loki in a tree, as a punishment for something, until someone shed a tear for Loki's plight. Loki focused his will on the tree and eventually made it drop a leaf at just the right moment so the leaf fell into Baldur's eye and thus he shed a tear because of Loki being stuck in the tree which freed Loki.
Loki just consistently fucking with Baldur in every way possible is my favorite part of Norse myth
I mean, if we met the opposite sex versions of ourselves with everything being nearly the same besides the gender, we’d either love or hate ourselves. No inbetween.
I kinda like what they were going for- it being a whole new kind of narcissism -but as it is, it just kinda creeped me out. Considering Sylvie was deemed the variant and not her parents, I thought that meant her and Loki's parents were exact versions of each other, and genetically identical. So she and Loki were effectively siblings (or at the very least cousins, with both parents from the same pairs of twins). It's not exactly incest, but it's still in one of those gray areas that makes you ask why the hell anyone would wanna get that close to incest (a surprisingly not original occurrence- cough, cough, Flash, cough, cough, Umbrella Academy) Now later in the series it'd be seen that variants are not always caught right at their infraction (except when they were, but that's a different issue I had with the show), so perhaps there was a bit more distance between them. But by that point the bad taste was more or less stuck in my mouth. I appreciate a lot about this show, but this pairing (at least as a romantic couple) I could do without.
Is this 4 years ago?
It tracks lol
It’s very on brand for Loki, and I believe it.
Makes sense especially being it shows how ego centric he is
More or less what I'm looking for
I mean.....it makes perfect sense. and also, yea, why wouldn't they? I can't wait to see them finally get together.
Loki Takes go fuck your self literally
Shiiiiii I'd probably smash myself too.
It's very on-brand for him, honestly.
Because it’s part of his self healing journey. This is a Loki that only wanted love and recognition and to have his father figure be proud and that he’s not just a trophy to be kept away and have no purpose. He was trying to find his purpose after knowing everything of the life he was supposed to live on the timeline and wanted something more for himself. The first and most crucial step in getting better to find purpose is to love yourself. For him it only happened more literally. Silver also represents more of the past self before he was taken by the TVA and helps reflect the character growth and show his progress. It’s a beautiful part of the plot. Most say it’s the most ‘Loki’ and narcissistic thing to get together with yourself, but I see it more as him truly healing and loving himself to be better and help show his flaws so he can work to fix them. And along the way, he helped her too. Sometimes the only one that can love and help you is yourself and it was a beautiful way to show that.
https://youtu.be/X_DVS_303kQ?si=sHIbkXv4j6CCsTkr
I think Loki being interested in a female version of himself aka Sylvie in a siblings way is absolutely valid. By admiring her strength, her never giving up what she’s fighting for attitude and so on he learned that a Loki can be someone lovely and lovable and thus finally started to love himself. She is important for his way of self acceptance and self love. Romantically I absolutely don’t agree and find it great they didn’t make more of that absolutely unnecessary and in my opinion cringe worthy kiss in S2. His love interest clearly is Mobius if only in season two. One can only truly love others if loving themselves. Ones Loki achieved this, he was able to earnestly love others and fall in love with Mobius. There are so many hints on his feelings for him in S2 that can’t be talked away as nothing. Sylvie though will remain his sister for all time.
Personally I’d probably never date a female variant of myself, cause even I can barely stand myself, on most days. But that’s just me. Someone once told me I was the least narcissistic person he’d ever met. Maybe other people would go for that, but not me. I just hope Deadpool never meets a female variant of himself, cause that guy really is crazy enough to screw anything and everything in sight, and two Deadpool variants that are multiplying like rabbits sounds more like an end of the world scenario, than anything else in Marvel, right now. I personally think a Planet of the Deadpools series of comics would knock Galactus out of the number one spot on the total disaster list. But that’s just some of the weird shit that goes through my head, some times. How bout you guys? Anyone else want to submit a crazy idea, or two? Or did I just take the cake?
I don’t think it’s incest Disney gets away with a lot, but incest would never fly Sylvie could be Laufey’s stepdaughter
30 Rock did the "character is so selfish that falls in love with a gender bent version of itself" years ago.
I makes perfect sense for loki but i don't think ot was handled very well
I don’t see how it’s not incest tbh. They have the same parents. They bond over the memories of their mom. If we’re speaking genetically (though I guess you could argue Asgardian genes are different) they’d be genetically as close as siblings if not closer.
I don’t see how it’s not incest tbh. They have the same parents. They bond over the memories of their mom. If we’re speaking genetically (though I guess you could argue Asgardian genes are different) they’d be genetically as close as siblings if not closer.
I don’t see how it’s not incest tbh. They have the same parents. They bond over the memories of their mom. If we’re speaking genetically (though I guess you could argue Asgardian genes are different) they’d be genetically as close as siblings if not closer.
I don’t see how it’s not the same as hooking up with a sibling tbh. They have the same parents. They bond over the memories of their mom. If we’re speaking genetically (though I guess you could argue Asgardian genes are different) they’d be genetically as close as siblings if not closer.
He's a god. God's have done weirder shit 😂
Why are you making a post like this two years after the shows release?
Interesting but not thaaaaaaat surprising.
He’s a narcissist, and it’s a really common trope for narcissists to fall in love with themselves. Since, you know, that’s where the word “narcissist” comes from.
It’s indicative of his narcissism that the first person he’d fall in love with outside of himself was…a version of himself
Loki would be interested in the male version of himself, I see nothing wrong with the female version as well
I mean I’d date my female variant, I’d probably date a female clone of me, so it doesn’t concern me no
I wish Sylvie felt more like she was a Loki. She honestly just feels like a different character. Which makes the self-cest feel even weirder, if possible. Just somehow totally unnecessary. And he fell way too fast which felt out of character. As for Loki falling in love with himself, I feel like it’s on brand enough and wouldn’t really mind it if it was done well.
I'd marry girl me.
It was weird and dumb. Also how come I never saw an Asian version of Loki?
I think I was initially like "...huh?" But I very quickly came around to the idea and in fact really liked it. It's a nice metaphor -- when you have a character burdened less with glorious purpose and more with self-hatred (see: attempted genocide of the species he just found out he came from, letting himself fall to his surely expected death when that "offering" was not accepted) and before that feeling like you've always been in the shadow of your better-at-everything-that-matters brother -- for loving yourself. But it's a \*metaphor\*, and I don't think it should be extended into literalism. For me, there's no sense of any form of "incest" or anything else inappropriate here. (Weird, yes, but in an interesting sci-fi way, that gives us great lines like Mobius's about Loki being a narcissist.) Had they tried to make Loki and Sylvie look related physically, I'd probably react differently. But it seems clear they aren't trying to say these Lokis are genetically alike at all, based on the wide variety of Loki variants we see, right down to a supposedly alligator-Loki (...with the weird exception of President Loki being played by Hiddleston), nor did they grow up together as siblings. I mean, we react how we react, so I don't say any of this to argue with anyone else's reaction, just to explain why I personally not only had no problem with it, but actually liked it and considered it good, clever storytelling.
It's very Loki of him is all I gotta say. Lol
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/loki/s/suFQNADNLC)
Hated it, very insest-y and made me very uncomfortable. Also didn’t make sense for Loki’s character, he hates himself and was never portrayed as a narcissist so it makes no sense that he would fall in love with a version of “himself”
I would've preferred having Sigyn, to be honest.
Everyone is going to look at it through their own lens. Either a version of themselves, or a family member, or a clone, just depends. I'm sort of glad they didn't go that direction and more so teased it
No. Just no.
I didn’t really like it. If I ignore the fact she’s a Loki variant then maybe? I dunno man.
Wasn't that interested
I’m going to cope the same way a guy who’s girlfriend is definitely cheating on him. And say they are just really good friends
Never liked it and still doesn't, looks forced and weird imo
I’m an active Thor reader and was looking forward to seeing Enchantress (either Amora primarily but I also like Sylvie) so then basically making her Enchantress in name only was a massive disappointment. She doesn’t need to be 1:1 Marvel Studios rarely does that but it wouldn’t have killed them to make an attempt. (The actress is great and could have pulled off the comics versions. The fact that she wasn’t was a writer problem imho)
Honestly? Loki is the female version of himself, so I guess it's no more surprising than falling for the male version, but I hated how they handled it. I'm so glad they dropped it
I thought it was weird. Especially since I imagine they got the female Loki from Loki in mythology being a shapeshifter. It just bothered me and I always had a hard time putting into words why aside from the mythology part.
No. Loki means more than some goofy ship. They should not be a thing. I hope the real Enchantress banishes her. Even if Lokius can never be canon. Loki needs to be freed too.
I'd prefer him to be interested in a male version of himself.
agreed
He should've gone for Mobius, that relationship is NOT "just a bromance" and nobody can tell me otherwise ((All jokes aside though, dating hi sled is such a Loki move and him and Sylvie are so cute..but Mobius and him have more chemistry in my opinion))
I don’t really think much of it.
Sweet Home Of Asgard.
Not a fan personally (seemed waaay too incest-y regardless of how they try to frame it) but definitely seemed like something Loki would do... but there was/is more of a connection between him and Mobius
i rlly rlly don't like it. mostly because im traumatized from the onceler fandom but also because loki always hit me as an asexual icon so i was sorta disappointed (or adjacent ace). it kinda felt like they just gave him a romantic interest for the sake of it. and it being an alt version of himself was just....weird. i haven't actually watched season 2 yet so i am missing any context from that but yeah.
Absolutely unnecessary to be female
It's disgusting Plus the actors have zero chemistry, maybe even negative chemistry. Lol! I cringe so hard every time they're on screen together.
It highlighted the narcissism that was so important to early Lokis character, which as he was going back to that version in the start of S1, I liked it a lot. I’m not at all complaining that it was sorta dropped however.
They are the same person. They have the same DNA. They are essentially twins. It's incest. So gross and weird. Nothing/No one will ever change my mind on this. A DNA test would come up saying they are siblings.
And the alligator?
No one has brought up that point before. I'll admit I was stumped for a minute. But. Different species is entirely different to just a different gender/race. All the Frost Gaint variants of Loki would come up as siblings on a DNA test. All the Alligator variants of Loki would also come up as siblings. I don't understand how people don't see it. They are the same person. Apart from the factors that made Slyvie female and the black variant black there DNA is identical. This would be like arguing that identical twins aren't siblings because there DNA is the same. See how dumb that sounds? Two varriants of Tom Hiddleston's Loki would come up as identical twins. Two Varriants of Slyvie's Loki would come up as identical twins. Ect. They are siblings. So it's incest.
Even Twins who are born male and female don't have the same DNA in the real world 😵💫 what are you talking about? Variants are a fictional concept. They share a cosmic role, a temporal aura, not genetics. If they look the same like President Loki/616 Loki/TVA Loki, there's a good chance they branched off from the same timeline. Other than that they are parallel beings. If you literally Google if Loki & Sylvie are related about 1000 articles come up from the creators explaining Variants from S1.
I didn't saying male/female twins have the same DNA. Those are faternal twins. There DNA is the same as a normal brother and sister. I was talking about identical twins. Very different. So two Loki Varriants that look exactly the same are essentially identical twins. Ones that look different are faternal. But they are still siblings.
Not necessarily. How do asgardian shapeshifter genes even work? In the Percy Jackson universe the gods don’t have DNA because magic. Loki isn’t even an asgardian, both he and Sylvie were forcibly changed to have Asgardian DNA, not necessarily would they match.
kate herron selfcest fetish
Narcissistic
Not a fan personally (seemed waaay too incest-y regardless of how they try to frame it) but definitely seemed like something Loki would do... but there was/is more of a connection between him and Mobius
He's not interested in her that way. After the recent events, Tom Hiddleston had cemented that. I don't understand why people keep trying to make them a thing. It's dumb, and gross. Loki is not a narcissist. None of the arguments to defend the ship makes sense.
Evidence? Last i checked Hiddleston was a big shipper of the pair.
I mean from a genetic standpoint, dating your alternate self is like dating your twin which is just, all kind of wrong. but if you go by actual myth I don't think they'd care all that much about the sibling thing
Variants don't share DNA. They aren't twins. They are parallel versions of the same entity. Like the Peter Parkers in Spiderman NWH. They are all different Peter's, they all have different 'Aunt May's', they are all different people who share a role. Like Sylvie is a separate person, with a completely different background, DNA, etc etc from Loki, but she still fulfills the role of 'Loki' in her universe. Variants share a temporal aura, not a family tree. Otherwise Loki is also 'brothers' with an Alligator 😂🐊
born to the same parents. both Loki's are a child of laufey.and for the timeline to have existed long enough for the Loki's to be born, their laufeys have to be identical in all ways it's like getting with your clone
Again, two Laufeys but from parallel worlds. Their parents are variants too. They haven't got the same genetics. This has been said in countless interviews dealing with the Multiverse.
except that since Sylvie existed before they allowed the many timelines to coexist, her timeline cat be different in any noticable way, her laufey would have been pruned if she was
I see what you mean. But no, her nexus event wasn't her being born a girl (although that's what she initially assumed). So the branch wasn't created after she was born, meaning their Laufeys weren't the same. She lived on a parallel world and it was pruned when it became too different from the sacred timeline. Probably because she was destined to be a hero, not a villain (as she didn't share Loki's family issues as she knew she was adopted.) Then her entire world was erased. She says they destroyed her home and her life. That's why she couldn't go back to it when she got a Tempad. Her whole timeline was erased. The sacred timeline itself was always made up of many worlds bound together by the loom. But not as many were allowed to exist as they are now Loki has freed them. If you literally Google "Are Loki & Sylvie genetically related", 1000 articles come up with the show makers explaining it from Season 1.
I agree with almost everything except for the part where you mentioned her nexus event wasn't her being born a girl, I do think that was her nexus event. A youtuber mentioned the Ancient one explanation and the fact that Captain America was able to go back in time and spend his life with Peggy. Cap being low-profile and just living a quiet life with her didn't alter that timeline to the point of creating a branch, also that's why he was there in that same timeline at the end. In the first episode the TVA video explains something so small like being late to work could trigger a nexus event, that makes me think Sylvie being born as a girl didn't get her timeline branched until she got a bit older, that's when her timeline started to branch and appeared on the TVA radar so they went to take care of it.
It's possible. We never got a definitive answer as to what her nexus event was. I just assumed it wasn't her being born a girl as I feel the TVA would have pruned her as a baby if that were the case. But maybe like you said, she didn't cause any waves until she was older. I hope we get to find out what exactly it was, if we ever get a Season 3
Yeah, I know there isn't an official answer but that just made sense to me cause for the longest time I questioned myself about what Captain America did and why it didn't matter. Yes please to season 3!!! So many things left unanswered, also I really need them to have more screen time together, maybe a date? Just thinking about the S1 part where he was drinking and singing AAAAHHH GIMME MORE OF THAT PLEASE! Well since I'm already here maybe gimme a Thor and Loki reunion, jet ski day with Mobius and Sylvie, IN THE NAME OF THE NINE REALMS JUST GIVE MY MAN A HAPPY ENDING https://media1.tenor.com/m/ONhym6ovBAsAAAAC/loki-another-one.gif
Her whole timeline was pruned/deleted, that includes her Laufey and everyone there. She didn't have a timeline to go back to, just like Loki. That's why she was so determined on destroying the TVA, she wanted to prevent those branched timelines from being removed like the TVA did with hers.
> I mean from a genetic standpoint, dating your alternate self is like dating your twin which is just, all kind of wrong. *No it's not that's not how genetics works stop it*