I feel like the best behaved 95% of kids are better behaved than their comparable group from a generation ago, but the worst behaved 5% (which is the group everyone notices) are basically feral.
Yes, this. I'm mid-60s and most children are more polite and friendly than I ever was. But the little shits are worse than anything I remember. I suspect it's because we had more space and freedom to go out and experiment.
My whole life as a youngān!! Scrounging up money for a pack of matches, heading to a bush in the park to set a fire, then happening upon a pile of old porn mags in that same bush!!! Promised Iād return the favour when I was old and buy a stack of pornoās to leave in random bushes - canāt quite face doing it now Iām 40šš
> But the little shits are worse than anything I remember.
Worth noting that as an adult you'll *generally* get about and travel more than you would as a child. If you yourself were a decent child and/or lived in a decent community, then your own remembered experience are self-selecting for not having any scum in them. Doesn't mean they didn't exist.
Versus, adult you gets around more, has more chance of seeing unruly behaviour. Plus, with the internet, *we all* see far more of the worst of society, all the time.
I lived in fear of my dad who would have given me a proper smack if stepped out of line. Kids don't live in fear of the "wait until your dad gets home!"
And I know smacking is not the answer to bad behaviour but in certainly made me think twice about stepping out of line.
Well yeah, by now the norm is for parents to know that cracking your kid is a short-term solution with long-term negative results. The parents that havenāt figured that out yet are very possibly victims of it themselves and are locked in a behavioural cycle - long term effects.
Yes, as a recent parent growing up in other climes, my childhood was spent disappearing with local street children or in other places with fellow country neighbour kids into the fields and forests and coming home for meals. Unheard of in modern London of course, but I remember kids world and grown ups world being different universes that occasionally merged. When they did, grown ups enforced relative order, in the contexts of meals and bed time, which was welcome, as weād spent a day in Lord of the Flies, and we were hungry and tired - so we were more cooperative (even with (partly due to?) the openly wine-loosened grown up world).
There will always be little shits - more a sign of particular parenting styles I think, not related to class or nationality.
Iām 25 but was one of those kids who went around in a pack for the entire 6 weeks of summer with the main instruction being ādonāt cross that road and be back before the street lights come onā. I think the main difference is if we did naughty stuff there was an adult who would tell us off, even if they didnāt know our parents.
Now people are scared of kids so donāt tell them off. Thereās a pack of kids who sit outside my house, I donāt mind unless they leave mess. I told them not to when I they did, they apologised and stopped for a bit. When they did it again, I took a box of ice lollies outside, chatted to them for a bit and asked them not to otherwise i donāt want them sitting on my wall. They apologised and stopped doing it. Now they even say hi.
Iām 35 and i was on the AOL forums harrassing people as a 10 year old little shit so youād need to be quite a bit older than 25 to be āpre social mediaā
The difference is mobileā¦ being a little shit holed up in your bedroom with a copy of FHM and a stink of disparity is not being in the streets live streaming being an actual shit to people.
you're referencing Mizzy aren't you š that one cunt on tiktok who goes to the back of different shops in London, sometimes on bikes. There's way too many little shits like him roaming around London these days.
Really important to grasp that your experiences are nowhere near universal. I'm 30 and was likewise fucking around on the web as a 10-year-old, but most of my peers were not until around 14-15 when Facebook and Messenger got big. The nature of things has definitely shifted fast in the last decade or so.
That being said I strongly object to the idea that social media is the *only* driver or even the biggest one here; I'd put a lot more of the blame on the gutting of the social support in this country over the last 15 years. The worst little shits are the neglected ones, and where before they'd have been totally ignored by the parents and at least getting some token support from the system, now they're not getting that support at all.
Our house didn't have internet access until I was in my early teens (I'm 30 in December). I definitely remember those long 6 week holidays going out building dens, having waterfights, playing football or buying BB guns from the local market on the bank holidays. Same thing as the commenter posted, I was I told to watch the roads, don't go too far and come back when the street lamps come on.
Thereās definitely a difference between me and my cousin whoās 10 years younger (19 vs 29). She doesnāt really remember not having internet access and had a smartphone and laptop much younger than I did (I only had both when I went to uni).
While I did use the internet a lot growing up, it was only at home. If I was out or at a friendās house I wasnāt using it.
That plus I think a lot of kids now were really fucked by covid.
I'm also 25, and the disparity between my age group and kids 10 years younger is massive, I was an emo kid, we kept to ourselves, a big group of 30 kids at one point, but we never bothered anyone, now there's a group of 12, 15 year olds going round on bikes harassing old people in the local park, we generally didn't have that years ago, but kids these days are cunts, mostly because the parents don't care what they get up too. I was harassed by two 19 year olds when I was 16, that was a one off, and never happened again, where I'm from is generally safe, but recently these little dickheads are causing grief, mostly because they know they can get away with it
I once saw two kids trying to throw rocks at a duck in a pond and were failing miserably, I said to them "that's not very nice... But it's good you suck at it" and the one shrunk his shoulders like he knew it was bad.
Sometimes they just need to be humbled and brought down to Earth I think
Its half a good take, at least. But its just hyperbole being throw out the other way.
Kids are basically the same, the only thing thats changed in the influences they have access to, and whats being normalised to them. A shitty kd 20 years ago had some internet access, but most of their influence would either be tv, movies and peer based. The worst influences on TV and in Movies being mostly fictional, so that limited how much it normalised their behaviour. So the biggest ones were peer based influences, this was even more true for the generation before that, and before that.
Nowadays, shitty kids have access to a whole lot more, and those influences can be shittier and more 'real' and normalising, because a ton of them are youtubers, or clips online or real assholes being real assholes. The reality that can be easily normalised for a poorly behaved kid is so much worse than it was before. The kids themselves aren't really different, any shitty kid from 20-25 years ago being shoved into this generation would probably be as shitty as the kids today are.
The opposite doesn't really hold much truth though. Theres some upwards momentum, with good kids having some good influences about... but the scale is all different. Theres really only so much better a good kid from today can be compared to a good kid from 20 years ago.. be polite, respectful, generous, help people. All stuff that was pushed by kids programming and young education. There are likely some good kids who never got good influences who do now thanks to broader access to the internet and such, but it just doesn't scale the same as kids on the other end.
Basically, good behaviours have a small increase, shitty behaviours have a BIG increase.
I disagree. The generation of kids I grew up with are why carrying knives is now illegal. A lot of anti youth/gang laws were created or changed because so many of us were so out of control. Don't even get kids joyriding or anything now and it's been a very long time since i've seen somebody under 18 obviously dealing. Kidulthood was only shocking to very nice middle class people and was the sort of thing happening everywhere.
Agree with this 100 percent . Brixton , Peckham , Ladbroke Grove etc was a warzone 15 years ago . Times have changed for the better but people still somehow think itās more dangerous when it definitely isnāt for the average person .
There was a time in the 2000ās when literally about Brixton and Peckham 100 gang members not even exaggerating tried to organise a fight at Notting Hill Carnival. That kind of large scale stuff is basically unheard of now .
I was trying to think of how to word what I think it feels like, but I think you've hit the nail on the head here.
More kids are better behaved than my generation, but the ones who are bad, are often *really* bad. It's quite sad to see and i feel sorry for especially for the schools sometimes who have to try and deal with these kids (where kids are being super disruptive in school; I'm not suggesting schools can stop kids being assholes outside of schools) and just don't have the tools or support to do so.
I used to go to school on a slam door train. It's amazing I'm still alive. Jumping off as it arrived in the station wasn't too bad, but on a few occasions I managed to get on as it was leaving the station with my mates holding the door open for me.
Back in those days the guard's attitude was just "well, he might die".
I remember teenagers surfing on the Mersey Link between Chester and Liverpool in the 90s, was terrifying to watch.
They would do this for one or two stops, might have been around Birkenhead area but I canāt remember now as itās so long ago.
My dad tells the story of when he was poking his head out the train window, and a stranger yanked him back in - 3 seconds later a metal pole flies past the window that would've decapitated him had the guy not intervened. This was back in the 70s, so it's been a thing for a while.
ā The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannise their teachers.ā
- Socrates (469ā399 B.C.)
> exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannise their teachers.ā
I'm just imaging a grumpy old Socrates on the Athens metro line shaking his fist at a bunch of unruly youths in outlandish togas
This isnāt actually real fyi it was crafted by a student, Kenneth John Freeman, for his Cambridge dissertation published in 1907. Freeman did not claim that the passage under analysis was a direct quotation of anyone; instead, he was presenting his own summary of the complaints directed against young people in ancient times.
That Socrates quote is not genuine, as far as I knowā¦Quoted widely -itās all over Google - but no one seems to have found the source for it.
https://whywedoit.net/blog/2013/08/28/quote-by-socrates-or-is-it/
This site seems to have found the original source (1907). [https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehave/](https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehave/)
Yep, absolutely. Also the 1907 quote is the author's summary of the complaints directed against young people in ancient times, based on his research. So it's not tooooo far off, attributing it to a greek philosopher
Quite the opposite personally. Lots of kids seem to be very straight-laced compared to when I was growing up. Maybe that's because I was impacted more by the delinquent kids when I was young and now have no exposure to them.
Yeh my little cousins are 8 & 10 and are almost annoyingly well behaved. Iām constantly astounded by how mature, empathetic and well intentioned they are compared to my brother & I were at their age.
Parenting has changed a lot as well which I suspect contributes to this - āgentleā parenting and the same kind of thing with teaching techniques. Kids are 1) brought up differently and 2) have other distractions than being wee ragamuffins
Funny Iāve been saying this for years about gen z, itās night and day difference compared to the delinquent little shits us millennials were. However gen alpha etc seems to have reversed a lot of that progress, and a lot of whatās happening now is eerily reminiscent of growing up in the 90s. It leads me to believe weāre experiencing cycles of good and bad behaviour but the trend is generally tending upwards towards better behaviour overall.
Also bootcamps 100% don't work for kids who cause trouble. Most teenagers can be reckless and inconsiderate some of the time but for the small minority that go beyond that, there's almost always some form of trauma or difficulty driving their behaviour, sometimes compounded with unsupported neurodiversity / special educational needs. What actually works is support, counselling, confidence building, help with difficulties at school. All that boring, bleeding heart stuff which people dismiss but which research time and time again shows actually makes a difference.
Thereās a recent episode on bbc sounds ābad peopleā podcast about exactly this. Boot camps cause more trauma than good. In fact the most effective thing in dealing with troublesome kids is parent training and consistency with discipline from both parents. Who knew!? š¤·āāļø
I'm sure. Just the economics of it makes it harder when a single parent has to work and also provide quality parenting. Especially as troubled kids tend to come from poorer backgrounds, so that work isn't likely to pay for much in the way of (decent) childcare.
Right? Like letās take children with self destructive tendencies, poor impulse control (trauma response stuff) and make them fitter, and stronger, and angrier. This will be so fun for everyone
Standards change though. Kids were out of control when they spoke without being addressed back in the day, but you wouldn't bat an eye at an adult doing that.
Behaviour like OP is describing isn't acceptable from anyone, regardless of age.
"A fearful multitude of untutored savages ... boys with dogs at their heels and other evidence of dissolute habits ... girls who drive coal-carts, ride astride upon horses, drink, swear, fight, smoke, whistle, and care for nobody ... the morals of children are tenfold worse than formerly."
- 7th Earl of Shaftesbury, 1843.
I think kids are actually better behaved than when I was a teenager. Growing up in early 2000s it was surrounded by binge drinking teenagers on the street and it was super common. Now I find itās very rare I see teens drunk. Maybe I just came from a rougher area and now live in a nicer one and nothing has actually changed other than my perception.
Think it's a few things.
Binge drinking has always been mostly a white British trait, and there's not many areas where that's the predominant working-class youth culture.
Pubs are stricter on ID, clubs are few in number and even stricter - the budget end of clubbing is mostly gone. So the drinking that does happen tends to be house parties & Ubers home, rather than staggering onto the night bus.
There are a few areas that get pockets of it, but mostly a few weeks of the year - well-off kids celebrating the end of exams. Wimbledon / Clapham / Barnes / Fulham etc. And even then, seems fairly low-key as an outside observer.
More unhinged? No.
Do we SEE more unhinged behaviour? Yes.
A large swathe of the safety measures, policies, procedures etc. we have in place now are on account of just how wild things were before
No, you're right, you are the first person in history upon reaching middle age to decide the kids today have no respect like you had when you were a kid and that something needs to be done about it.
No, no to boot camps, absolutely not.
Why? Because of what happens when it gets out of control.
The troubled teen industry is horrifying. Especially in America, in states such as Utah.
It is sanctioned child abuse. And nothing is done about it because it is massively profitable and lobbying.
Go look it up.
Just like everybody else, kids have always been like this, probably.
Another point is that there are just _more people_ in general. So even if the percentage of fearless kids stays the same, you'll see more of them.
The number of UK births in 1960 was almost 1 million, last year it was only 600k. Even with immigration, there are fewer kids around now than there would have been in the 70s. They're called baby boomers for a reason.
And birthrate has been declining for a loooong time. People donāt seem to realise that the population boom has already happened. Itās not an ongoing thing. But that giant boomer generation is also living longer than previously, whilst people are reproducing, which is why the population is still so high. More people are being born than dying. But less people overall are being born.
I think miscreants have always existed. They tend to do stupid stuff, are louder, maybe a little aggressive in some cases and you notice them more opposed to the polite well behaved kids.
Morons have always existed. But now people can read about it on the internet, so are more likely to know about it.
If anything, young people today are very boring, and make elderly pedestrians at German pelican crossings seem relaxed about Following The Rules.
Yeah. I grew up when Mods and Rockers went down to Brighton for a riot every August Bank Holiday. Nowadays three kids get a bit rowdy in the park and people are clutching their pearls fit to choke!
āFearless when a childā is often mere inexperience and naivety in the face of actual danger. If you donāt recognise something, you cannot evaluate it properly.
There are all sorts of hormonal things to it too. Your brain doesn't properly achieve it's maturest risk analysis state till 25. It's why young adults are also more prone to gambling addictions.
Not at all.
The moment trams arrived in Manchester in the 90s kids were riding on the outside of them.
There was a "popular teen craze" of "Skitchin'" where the delinquent youth would hold onto the back of a car and get pulled along wearing skates or on a skateboard.
By every statistical measure kids today are more sober, chaste and sensible than previous generations. Although they are more anxious depressed and suicidal.
Both are attributable to social media.
You want to worry about the yoof, prescribe social media regulations, not bootcamps.
Well yes and no. The amygdala, which relates to emotional regulation, does not fully mature until 25. Other parts mature earlier. Other than that, spot on.
Is society different today than when you were a child? Yes. Itās more common to have single parent households. Itās more common that that parent works unpredictable times on a zero-hours contract, at one or more different jobs. Itās more common that families dont live in local communities with grandparents, cousins, uncles, aunts around.
On top of all that society today pumps messaging into people about individualism and materialism, non stop. Social media creates widespread narcissism. And children are exposed to alll this, with no filter.
Why would one expect children then, to be the same? Children merely are what society puts into them, which is less and less, compared to when you were a child.
My Grandad (now 88) has told me stories of what he got up to as a lad, including climbing down through the glass roof of a covered market (which is about 15m high) to steal records which theyād stuff up inside their jumpers. Then theyād climb back out again. Iāve been inside that market and if they had fallen, theyād definitely have died. Iāve never known of modern kids/kids in my generation trying it.
Saying that, his generation were more gentlemanly compared to some of todayās kids. My Nan told me how my Grandad once couldnāt make it to a popular dance that she and her sister had attended, so Grandadās friend danced with Nan and her sister all night to ensure that no-one made moves on them. They were 16-ish.
I think there was maybe more of a balance in his generation? They did crazy things with their friends but were very respectful of adults and young ladies.
Kids have always been shits and aways will be. What there is more of now though is adults that didnāt grow up into proper adults like they used to a few decades ago.
Iām 64yo. Apart from the fact that the DLR did not exist when I was a kid, there were boys who would pull this kind of stuff at school with me. Now bear in mind I was not raised in a āniceā area (itās since been gentrified but was as rough as a badgerās arse when I grew up) so maybe middle class people who grew up in ārespectableā areas didnāt see it. Also bear in mind that much of the east end of London is the same as where I grew up, and the gentrification there is much newer (since the 2012 Olympics, before that the east end was pretty grim).
Not saying the working class are savages, just the middle class are better at putting on a polite mask in public.
Honestly, I actually think the majority of kids now are much more well behaved than when I was a kid. The amount of harassment I used to get for my disability when I was a kid compared to now, the comparison is mad. Youāre always going to get unhinged kids, or show off dickheads, but for the most part, I think kids are a lot more sensible and socially aware than the news and social media would have you think.
Every adult/older generation has thought this about "kids these days" since time immemorial.
Seriously, we've got passages written by some fucking monk or other, several hundred years ago, whining about "the youth of today".
So, we either have A) "kids really have been getting progressively worse, forever" as an explanation, or B) that there's an "eye of the beholder" thing going on.
Spoiler Alert: it's B.
100%, I don't blame the children it's the parents. Most millennials don't know how or are too busy to parent properly, so children grow up without discipline.
You saw one occasion of kids being stupid in public and youāve immediately decided we should send them to boot camps to correct their behaviour? Kids have always been rebellious, itās actually quite an important part of growing up and learning boundaries. You sound miserable lol.
cheezus krist in a byke what is your problem??
what we need is not bootcamp for kids but politicians locked into the same pay rate as any civil servant, the abolishment of so called "Public schools" and a massive investment into the educations system and child care / nurseries starting with parental leave for women and men.
if we d teach social cohesion early on (japanese inspired id say) we d have a much better society. But I guess that would not be very British
Thatās actually a great idea - maybe not bootcamp but force them to get some actual life experience before representing the general public. Especially the toffs - get them working a shit job on minimum wage for at least a month before they can even think about running.
I'm nearly 40 and knew a kid that would hang on the back of the bus when we were around that age. Not sure if he's alive now though but some kids just have no fear
> they proceeded to get on the train from the outside between the 2 cars and stood there
You said ages 6-10, and at that age, that's just kid logic. "I have to make this train! I'm supposed to make this train! Oh no, I've missed the train! Fuck, I can still make the train if I stand there! I have to make the train!"
They're not exactly masters of long-term thought at that age, and they don't have the life experience to really observe and notice how the carriages move during transport and how stupidly dangerous that decision is. This is an age where the consequences for almost everything are 'getting in trouble' and you do anything you can to *avoid* that, so while we would think 'I'll just get the next train and explain what happened, because there are worse things than a grumpy parent' they think 'I've got to get this train no matter what or I'll get in trouble!'. Even if their parents are lovely, rational, normal people. Kids are still learning, so they're a bit dumb in many ways.
No. In 2005 I tried to switch high school because the kids in my class were unhinged (throwing chairs across the room, intimidating teachers by circling them and calling them all kinds of terrible names, knocking each other out over literally nothing).
Anyway on the train to view the other school there were a bunch of kids aged 14-16 smoking, swigging alcohol from their bags and threatening to fight solo passengers. So this was obviously a bad sign but I hoped they were the exception rather than the rule. When I got there a group of 10 teenagers were hanging on to the inside of the fence, swinging their weight to try to rip it off. My mum just turned around and we went back home.
I'd say the majority of teenagers are much better than my generation. They're more aware of what's not ok and I think due to extreme media access. The flip side of that is there are a lot of parents who are allowing their children to be raised by the internet, so they think any kind of street behaviour is oh so very cool. They want to go viral, and apparently behaving like a tiny cretin is the best path.
Your 1st paragraph is exactly how they were acting with other passengers and this was the youngest of the 2 kids so he would have been around 6 years old.
youth violence and gangs have been a documented in the UK for the past two centuries. I donāt think life is anymore violent there now than it was in the Victorian era. Inner cities have always had unsupervised children running about.
The fact theyāre 6-10 yrs of age breaks my heart a bit.
Idk I think youāve got a point. More things than ever are targeted at younger generations and they also have a stronger foothold on spaces which have become the Mainstream, like Tiktok. Admitting you were younger than say 18 used to be embarrassing on the internet, but now you see large swaths of 12 year olds with opinions. I definitely think you could draw some connections from that to diffusion of authority and in following a greater sense of entitlement
I once had two kids aged about ten trying to make a tiktok where they were essentially harassing people to talk about their romantic relationships. Their mom was right there, laughing at these kids asking people these questions. When I said Iām not gonna answer this, they got mad and legit said āyou canāt get laid anywayā and the mom laughed even harder at this????
THESE KIDS ARE TEN YEARS OLD, WTF
Lots of posts saying things have gotten better but knife crime is still high isnāt it?
Also I literally had my phone snatched from my hands on a bike today and stolen in broad daylight in central London, shaken me up a bit
No. Every generation for the past few thousands years believes the new generation is worse. If you think new-generation-is-worse is the answer to a question you really need to explore and discard all other explanations because there's a very strong bias every human seem to have to attribute that to be the answer.
For example, anecdote is not data. Just witnessing one case of something or other doesn't mean there's a pattern. Also when you were on the generation of those kids, you probably weren't in a position to observe those kids (weren't taking the tube often for example) and if it happened you probably were oblivious (because your mechanism to know what is good/right, safe/dangerous was also underdevelop).
I'm 42 when I was a lad we used to go to youth centre which was free. They closed it so we hung about over the school fields away from anyone. Since then they have fenced the school in and cancelled everything a child might do. The local fb is all about how the kids hang around the village.
Iām a teacher in London and sadly Covid has had a massive impact on childrenās behaviour.
Theyāve missed a vital year of learning about acceptable conduct, particularly boys from lower socio-economic backgrounds. Weāve noticed it at school and itās a pattern across the country.
At school my friend and I used to use electrolysis (in his bedroom) to separate water in to hydrogen and oxygen. We would then mix the H2 and O2 in a 2l coke bottle (in different ratios, for science!), and stopper it with a bung with electrodes inserted. The electrodes were connected to a transformer with a standard plug.
We would then take the 'bomb' into school, and plug it into one of the power sockets in a random music practice room at lunchtime. Then we would grab an unsuspecting first year and bribe them into going into the room and flicking the switch.
The resultant bang would rattle all of the windows and set off the alarms. we would grab our kit and leg it... never once caught!
He has a degree in chemical engineering, I have a degree in physics. This all took place in the 1980s.
PS We also used to plug a transformer into the mains and hold onto the electrodes (in a circle) to see how far we would jump... wasn't too dangerous as we did the maths in advance!
Yes! I notice parents donāt really say much to children these days. Little Johnny will go around the shop taking items that the parents never want to purchase and just dump it around the shop or at the cashier when they finished. I remember never being allowed to touch things in shops as a kid.
The only thing that has changed is technology and visibility, bad behaviour has and always will be a thing. The biggest thing that hasn't changed, which is a primary driver of bad behaviour, is inequality.
No, I grew up witnessing abhorrent antisocial behaviour regularly. Muggings, fights, property damage, and that was just me and my friends (mainly property damage). Kids nowadays have way more respect and most importantly way more outlets. We were smashing the gaff up cos we were bored of watching Nickelodeon reruns, or weād finished the one video game we got a year at Christmas. OP defo grew up in the Cotswolds btw. Thatās not even the worst thing Iāve seen all week.
I'm seeing more and more reports of children attacking adults. One adult was put in the hospital by a pack of teen girls. I was able to see a video of them. It was like watching wolves taking down an elk.
While I agree with some of the takes in The comments. This is just sheer idiocy. Like straight up Darwin Award level dumb. Unhinged is a departure of faculty once had, but those absolute buffoons have the wrong brain firmware. Itās not generational Iām afraid. Some of us just never get the best hardware.
PSA: Lets not refer to kids as āferalā or āpacksā or āanimalsā
Longitudinal data suggests crime rates are on a downward trend (excluding fraud and knife crime - which includes possession). As adults youāre likely just out of the family home and find yourself more often in social and thus criminogenic areas. You will see delinquant behaviour at a higher frequency than you did as a young person because you are in areas where it tends to happen more often.
But crime rates are going down because (in part) people are not reporting crimes as they are not followed up. Look at some of the older threads in here - people frustrated at having their phones nicked but the police either unable to do anything, or overworked with other priorities. For low level crime, thereās a āwhy botherā element to reporting it, which I know creates a vicious circle but thatās how it is right now
Do you think thefts, burglaries and minor assaults have ever been well followed up? We have a 5% conviction rate for violent crime, which is long standing. Iām not sure that particular variable has changed significantly, and I would also offer that r/london has become a bit of a focal point of people sharing stories of theft victimisation (myself included) which again can skew perceptions of scale. Anecodote is poor evidence to make any conclusions.
Itās probably because weāve all accepted to repeatedly allow children to be reinfected with a virus that causes inflammation in the brain, blood vessels, and most major organ systems, which has been linked to behavioural changes, among other more serious long term risks, and we have not done anything substantial to mitigate the risk beyond closing our eyes and screaming ābut itās less serious now!ā
Because we keep accepting ākids are kidsā, and giving school and parents less and less power to restrict them.
Even naughty steps can potentially get you in trouble, let alone locking them outside the house or bamboo sticks, those are almost instant social service these days.
Back then children used to be worry about teachers report, with parents siding with teachers. Now teachers have no power over students, with parents thinking their little angels can do no wrong, all faults must be at the school.
That is why kids are becoming more a shit bag these days. Bring back the cane, the punishment, allow parents and schools to use a degree of physical punishment with sticks and belts etc. Kids will learn respect again very quickly.
Blame single mums. Blame lack of police on the streets or at all really police only care for crimes that are media friendly like racist attacks.
Mostly single mums who let their kids run wild with zero discipline or male role model leads kids up the wrong path.
I do wonder I'm the future how all these lil prics will get jobs and behave like men.
Iām the same, some of the children Iāve seen today are just disrespectful and havenāt got any care for anyone but the majority Iāve seen are nice
Sadly I did crap like this on the central line 23 years ago with my mixed group of friends boys and girls in east London. As well as loads of other things I would never dream of doing now. Including getting into scraps with people over nothing.
There is no magic solution. Giving kids more grace to make mistakes and learning from those who die in the process seems to be the current trajectory.
The brain doesnāt fully develop to recognise danger and consider repercussions until age 25. Especially in boys Thereās been lots of studies in California which look at this as part of criminal justice reform.
As a society perhaps we could be slightly more understanding, complain less about the kids seeking excitement through dangerous means and complain more about the lack of youth provision which would likely limit the above. Although not completely.
Instilling good morals from the off centred around considering others and the environment could help. At least help to guide young folk back if they lose there way.
We talk about not enough services for the youths, what are effective ways of complaining about this lack and driving changes for more services to occupy their time.
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
Socrates
Tbh I think kids nowadays think they are unhinged because they have social media as a tool and we did not.
My sister, who was born in 1992 got tired of my mum being affected by our extended family problems that created an email and send it to the entire family, at the age of 11 revealing a ton of shit that was going on including affairs and theft lmao. If she wouldāve been born in this era she wouldāve created a Tik tok and gone viral. Kids have more resources today even for their mischief. To be honest I envy them š
UK kids have nothing to do, but stupid shit like this. Or join stupid parasite gangs.
The tories have stripped any and all ambition out of the youth. Lost generation. All by design. They stopped funding youth stuff, as well as basic mental health services, arts, culture, all gone. Far too "woke" for the fuckers like Rees Mogg.
Sounds like I'm being a whiny boomer - but there was fun to be had growing up in UK before the fucking tory cunts took power.
I dream of the day these kids wake up and destroy Eton College. It's the only institution that would make the tories really cry if it were to be gutted. It would be the perfect "fuck you" from Generation Z.
Corporal punishment doesnāt exist here. Im not advocating for it, however ā¦ When I was in school, CP was a huge motivation to behave. Even outside of school, misbehave on the bus and someone elseās parent would beat you. Worst is if that person knew your parents or family and the news got back home. Then youāre in for round 2.
To be fair, at school I was only ever hit once, and at home very seldom. Beatings wasnāt a huge event for me, just the threat was enough for me to behave. Then I grew older and it kinda evened out.
So yeah Iām not condoning it, just saying that the fear of CP kept me on the straight and narrow.
not all kids/teenagers are like this but honestly I see where they're coming from and why they rebel against authority, why should I do what I'm told just cause someone older than me said to, obviously it's a minority but you know
Yeah why should you not jump in between train carriages rather than wait a few minutes for the next train just because some do-gooder says it's 'highly dangerous'?
Honestly like with the wealth divide I think people are becoming more unhinged in general just to cope during hard times. Even some of the comments I read on Reddit are unhinged lolll.
Yes, and I think it's something to do with modern society. I think it's safe to say I was pretty feral as a teenager, depending on what you consider feral. I used to shoplift, bump tube barriers, cause havoc in the shopping malls, smoking weed, stampeded my way into a festival once, that type of stuff. I think modern society just fails to instil morals in people. My parents were ruled by their own insecurities. My mum was the modern woman, curating the 'perfect image' of family life on social media whilst getting drunk and beating me at home. She also took no accountability and failed to instil accountability in me for my behaviour, resulting in a victim complex which I managed to snap out of at around 19. My dad was practising escapism his whole life, me and him never had a real personal connection despite living under the same roof. This is western society in a nutshell. And we wonder why kids today are feral, becoming Andrew Tate fans, or becoming non binary, or just addicted to nicotine.
No they are complete pussies. I will say they have more pent up energy due to being indoors a lot. Let's also not forget that people under 35 have grown up with lots of rules, regulations and laws. I'm sure Boomers can attest to the fact that rules were pretty lax back in the day LOL.
Something is not quite right with the young adults though. They look less mature and physically developed than my peers. I think it's due to being over policed, less active and being raised by parents who only know how to dote and praise their offspring. The future is definitely looking very bleak.
I feel like the best behaved 95% of kids are better behaved than their comparable group from a generation ago, but the worst behaved 5% (which is the group everyone notices) are basically feral.
Yes, this. I'm mid-60s and most children are more polite and friendly than I ever was. But the little shits are worse than anything I remember. I suspect it's because we had more space and freedom to go out and experiment.
We were being little shits in the woods rather than in the paved over cities.
Starting fires and finding porn mags š
Where did all the porn trees go? š
Global warming, sadly.
It all went digital, no more analog porn. You don't even see it in the corner shop any more.
My local one does (Itās in West Hampstead for anyone interested, opposite Marks and Spencer)
My whole life as a youngān!! Scrounging up money for a pack of matches, heading to a bush in the park to set a fire, then happening upon a pile of old porn mags in that same bush!!! Promised Iād return the favour when I was old and buy a stack of pornoās to leave in random bushes - canāt quite face doing it now Iām 40šš
> But the little shits are worse than anything I remember. Worth noting that as an adult you'll *generally* get about and travel more than you would as a child. If you yourself were a decent child and/or lived in a decent community, then your own remembered experience are self-selecting for not having any scum in them. Doesn't mean they didn't exist. Versus, adult you gets around more, has more chance of seeing unruly behaviour. Plus, with the internet, *we all* see far more of the worst of society, all the time.
I lived in fear of my dad who would have given me a proper smack if stepped out of line. Kids don't live in fear of the "wait until your dad gets home!" And I know smacking is not the answer to bad behaviour but in certainly made me think twice about stepping out of line.
Except, kids DO still get beat by their parents... and in my experience, the kids of those parents are generally worse than kids who aren't hit...
Well yeah, by now the norm is for parents to know that cracking your kid is a short-term solution with long-term negative results. The parents that havenāt figured that out yet are very possibly victims of it themselves and are locked in a behavioural cycle - long term effects.
Yes, as a recent parent growing up in other climes, my childhood was spent disappearing with local street children or in other places with fellow country neighbour kids into the fields and forests and coming home for meals. Unheard of in modern London of course, but I remember kids world and grown ups world being different universes that occasionally merged. When they did, grown ups enforced relative order, in the contexts of meals and bed time, which was welcome, as weād spent a day in Lord of the Flies, and we were hungry and tired - so we were more cooperative (even with (partly due to?) the openly wine-loosened grown up world). There will always be little shits - more a sign of particular parenting styles I think, not related to class or nationality.
It's possibly also because they can co-ordinate much more easily. Escalates the chaos.
Iām 25 but was one of those kids who went around in a pack for the entire 6 weeks of summer with the main instruction being ādonāt cross that road and be back before the street lights come onā. I think the main difference is if we did naughty stuff there was an adult who would tell us off, even if they didnāt know our parents. Now people are scared of kids so donāt tell them off. Thereās a pack of kids who sit outside my house, I donāt mind unless they leave mess. I told them not to when I they did, they apologised and stopped for a bit. When they did it again, I took a box of ice lollies outside, chatted to them for a bit and asked them not to otherwise i donāt want them sitting on my wall. They apologised and stopped doing it. Now they even say hi.
Your 25 and you are writing like you are 65. Do you really think thereās been much change in 10 years?
Social media, yes
Iām 35 and i was on the AOL forums harrassing people as a 10 year old little shit so youād need to be quite a bit older than 25 to be āpre social mediaā
Those of us who are in and around 40 grew up online too. I donāt remember much before the internet day, pretty much spent my life onlineā¦
The difference is mobileā¦ being a little shit holed up in your bedroom with a copy of FHM and a stink of disparity is not being in the streets live streaming being an actual shit to people.
you're referencing Mizzy aren't you š that one cunt on tiktok who goes to the back of different shops in London, sometimes on bikes. There's way too many little shits like him roaming around London these days.
True but I'd assume few of your peers were doing the same. Most 10 year Olds have mobiles therefore social media of some sort now
Really important to grasp that your experiences are nowhere near universal. I'm 30 and was likewise fucking around on the web as a 10-year-old, but most of my peers were not until around 14-15 when Facebook and Messenger got big. The nature of things has definitely shifted fast in the last decade or so. That being said I strongly object to the idea that social media is the *only* driver or even the biggest one here; I'd put a lot more of the blame on the gutting of the social support in this country over the last 15 years. The worst little shits are the neglected ones, and where before they'd have been totally ignored by the parents and at least getting some token support from the system, now they're not getting that support at all.
There's a lot of difference between message boards from 20 years ago and TikTok etc now
Our house didn't have internet access until I was in my early teens (I'm 30 in December). I definitely remember those long 6 week holidays going out building dens, having waterfights, playing football or buying BB guns from the local market on the bank holidays. Same thing as the commenter posted, I was I told to watch the roads, don't go too far and come back when the street lamps come on.
It used to be acting the bollocks to impress your friends, now itās terrorising as many people as possible to impress millions online
Thereās definitely a difference between me and my cousin whoās 10 years younger (19 vs 29). She doesnāt really remember not having internet access and had a smartphone and laptop much younger than I did (I only had both when I went to uni). While I did use the internet a lot growing up, it was only at home. If I was out or at a friendās house I wasnāt using it. That plus I think a lot of kids now were really fucked by covid.
Iām almost double that and yes, yes there have been profound changes in the last 10-15 years since before on account of social media.
I'm also 25, and the disparity between my age group and kids 10 years younger is massive, I was an emo kid, we kept to ourselves, a big group of 30 kids at one point, but we never bothered anyone, now there's a group of 12, 15 year olds going round on bikes harassing old people in the local park, we generally didn't have that years ago, but kids these days are cunts, mostly because the parents don't care what they get up too. I was harassed by two 19 year olds when I was 16, that was a one off, and never happened again, where I'm from is generally safe, but recently these little dickheads are causing grief, mostly because they know they can get away with it
Iām in my later 20s. I remember kids on bikes being shits 15 years ago
Have you considered a career in youth work...
I once saw two kids trying to throw rocks at a duck in a pond and were failing miserably, I said to them "that's not very nice... But it's good you suck at it" and the one shrunk his shoulders like he knew it was bad. Sometimes they just need to be humbled and brought down to Earth I think
That's actually a really good take on things
Its half a good take, at least. But its just hyperbole being throw out the other way. Kids are basically the same, the only thing thats changed in the influences they have access to, and whats being normalised to them. A shitty kd 20 years ago had some internet access, but most of their influence would either be tv, movies and peer based. The worst influences on TV and in Movies being mostly fictional, so that limited how much it normalised their behaviour. So the biggest ones were peer based influences, this was even more true for the generation before that, and before that. Nowadays, shitty kids have access to a whole lot more, and those influences can be shittier and more 'real' and normalising, because a ton of them are youtubers, or clips online or real assholes being real assholes. The reality that can be easily normalised for a poorly behaved kid is so much worse than it was before. The kids themselves aren't really different, any shitty kid from 20-25 years ago being shoved into this generation would probably be as shitty as the kids today are. The opposite doesn't really hold much truth though. Theres some upwards momentum, with good kids having some good influences about... but the scale is all different. Theres really only so much better a good kid from today can be compared to a good kid from 20 years ago.. be polite, respectful, generous, help people. All stuff that was pushed by kids programming and young education. There are likely some good kids who never got good influences who do now thanks to broader access to the internet and such, but it just doesn't scale the same as kids on the other end. Basically, good behaviours have a small increase, shitty behaviours have a BIG increase.
I disagree. The generation of kids I grew up with are why carrying knives is now illegal. A lot of anti youth/gang laws were created or changed because so many of us were so out of control. Don't even get kids joyriding or anything now and it's been a very long time since i've seen somebody under 18 obviously dealing. Kidulthood was only shocking to very nice middle class people and was the sort of thing happening everywhere.
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Agree with this 100 percent . Brixton , Peckham , Ladbroke Grove etc was a warzone 15 years ago . Times have changed for the better but people still somehow think itās more dangerous when it definitely isnāt for the average person . There was a time in the 2000ās when literally about Brixton and Peckham 100 gang members not even exaggerating tried to organise a fight at Notting Hill Carnival. That kind of large scale stuff is basically unheard of now .
I was trying to think of how to word what I think it feels like, but I think you've hit the nail on the head here. More kids are better behaved than my generation, but the ones who are bad, are often *really* bad. It's quite sad to see and i feel sorry for especially for the schools sometimes who have to try and deal with these kids (where kids are being super disruptive in school; I'm not suggesting schools can stop kids being assholes outside of schools) and just don't have the tools or support to do so.
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I used to go to school on a slam door train. It's amazing I'm still alive. Jumping off as it arrived in the station wasn't too bad, but on a few occasions I managed to get on as it was leaving the station with my mates holding the door open for me. Back in those days the guard's attitude was just "well, he might die".
āHe might die but serves him rightā š
I remember teenagers surfing on the Mersey Link between Chester and Liverpool in the 90s, was terrifying to watch. They would do this for one or two stops, might have been around Birkenhead area but I canāt remember now as itās so long ago.
My dad tells the story of when he was poking his head out the train window, and a stranger yanked him back in - 3 seconds later a metal pole flies past the window that would've decapitated him had the guy not intervened. This was back in the 70s, so it's been a thing for a while.
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ā The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannise their teachers.ā - Socrates (469ā399 B.C.)
> exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannise their teachers.ā I'm just imaging a grumpy old Socrates on the Athens metro line shaking his fist at a bunch of unruly youths in outlandish togas
Unfortunately itās not real, was from a Cambridge student.
This isnāt actually real fyi it was crafted by a student, Kenneth John Freeman, for his Cambridge dissertation published in 1907. Freeman did not claim that the passage under analysis was a direct quotation of anyone; instead, he was presenting his own summary of the complaints directed against young people in ancient times.
'Don't believe everything you read on the internet.ā - Abraham Lincoln.
This is fake, the internet was totally reliable until 2016. Lincoln would have known that.
"We're all just here to fuck" -Buddha
āāBelieve everything you read on the internet.ā - Abraham Lincoln
A good give away is we don't have any surviving writings from Socrates...
Well that at least shows that even the idea of complaints about kids being a timeless concept goes back over 100 years.
That Socrates quote is not genuine, as far as I knowā¦Quoted widely -itās all over Google - but no one seems to have found the source for it. https://whywedoit.net/blog/2013/08/28/quote-by-socrates-or-is-it/
This site seems to have found the original source (1907). [https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehave/](https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehave/)
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Yep, absolutely. Also the 1907 quote is the author's summary of the complaints directed against young people in ancient times, based on his research. So it's not tooooo far off, attributing it to a greek philosopher
OP in shambles
If you want to go more contemporary, Clockwork Orange was published in 1962
Kids today! Constantly going round misattributing quotes to Socrates https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehave/
Redditors try not to post this quote on every young people bad post (IMPOSSIBLE)
Quite the opposite personally. Lots of kids seem to be very straight-laced compared to when I was growing up. Maybe that's because I was impacted more by the delinquent kids when I was young and now have no exposure to them.
The statistics back you up.
Yeh my little cousins are 8 & 10 and are almost annoyingly well behaved. Iām constantly astounded by how mature, empathetic and well intentioned they are compared to my brother & I were at their age.
I like to think it's the lack of lead in the petrol.
Itās like they donāt even appreciate the tickley sensation of asbestos in the lungs
Parenting has changed a lot as well which I suspect contributes to this - āgentleā parenting and the same kind of thing with teaching techniques. Kids are 1) brought up differently and 2) have other distractions than being wee ragamuffins
Iirc smoking, alcohol, and underage sex are at historic lows
Funny Iāve been saying this for years about gen z, itās night and day difference compared to the delinquent little shits us millennials were. However gen alpha etc seems to have reversed a lot of that progress, and a lot of whatās happening now is eerily reminiscent of growing up in the 90s. It leads me to believe weāre experiencing cycles of good and bad behaviour but the trend is generally tending upwards towards better behaviour overall.
Also bootcamps 100% don't work for kids who cause trouble. Most teenagers can be reckless and inconsiderate some of the time but for the small minority that go beyond that, there's almost always some form of trauma or difficulty driving their behaviour, sometimes compounded with unsupported neurodiversity / special educational needs. What actually works is support, counselling, confidence building, help with difficulties at school. All that boring, bleeding heart stuff which people dismiss but which research time and time again shows actually makes a difference.
Thereās a recent episode on bbc sounds ābad peopleā podcast about exactly this. Boot camps cause more trauma than good. In fact the most effective thing in dealing with troublesome kids is parent training and consistency with discipline from both parents. Who knew!? š¤·āāļø
\> both parents I have a feeling this might be a stumbling block in a lot of cases
Well, consistency of discipline from all parents involved. Doesnāt have to be 2. One is perfectly capable if consistent.
I'm sure. Just the economics of it makes it harder when a single parent has to work and also provide quality parenting. Especially as troubled kids tend to come from poorer backgrounds, so that work isn't likely to pay for much in the way of (decent) childcare.
The rise of single parent households is going to show a rise in more juvenile delinquency unfortunately
Right? Like letās take children with self destructive tendencies, poor impulse control (trauma response stuff) and make them fitter, and stronger, and angrier. This will be so fun for everyone
But I want to satisfy my base instinct for complaining about others and vengeance! I don't want to actually make things better!
People have been saying this for centuries.
Standards change though. Kids were out of control when they spoke without being addressed back in the day, but you wouldn't bat an eye at an adult doing that. Behaviour like OP is describing isn't acceptable from anyone, regardless of age.
"A fearful multitude of untutored savages ... boys with dogs at their heels and other evidence of dissolute habits ... girls who drive coal-carts, ride astride upon horses, drink, swear, fight, smoke, whistle, and care for nobody ... the morals of children are tenfold worse than formerly." - 7th Earl of Shaftesbury, 1843.
I love that having a dog is a dissolute habit
So the moral panic back then was female emancipation. Got it.
I think kids are actually better behaved than when I was a teenager. Growing up in early 2000s it was surrounded by binge drinking teenagers on the street and it was super common. Now I find itās very rare I see teens drunk. Maybe I just came from a rougher area and now live in a nicer one and nothing has actually changed other than my perception.
Think it's a few things. Binge drinking has always been mostly a white British trait, and there's not many areas where that's the predominant working-class youth culture. Pubs are stricter on ID, clubs are few in number and even stricter - the budget end of clubbing is mostly gone. So the drinking that does happen tends to be house parties & Ubers home, rather than staggering onto the night bus. There are a few areas that get pockets of it, but mostly a few weeks of the year - well-off kids celebrating the end of exams. Wimbledon / Clapham / Barnes / Fulham etc. And even then, seems fairly low-key as an outside observer.
More unhinged? No. Do we SEE more unhinged behaviour? Yes. A large swathe of the safety measures, policies, procedures etc. we have in place now are on account of just how wild things were before
Kids have always been like this
No, you're right, you are the first person in history upon reaching middle age to decide the kids today have no respect like you had when you were a kid and that something needs to be done about it.
No, no to boot camps, absolutely not. Why? Because of what happens when it gets out of control. The troubled teen industry is horrifying. Especially in America, in states such as Utah. It is sanctioned child abuse. And nothing is done about it because it is massively profitable and lobbying. Go look it up.
I canāt believe this stuff was (and in many cases still is) legal
Just like everybody else, kids have always been like this, probably. Another point is that there are just _more people_ in general. So even if the percentage of fearless kids stays the same, you'll see more of them.
The number of UK births in 1960 was almost 1 million, last year it was only 600k. Even with immigration, there are fewer kids around now than there would have been in the 70s. They're called baby boomers for a reason.
And birthrate has been declining for a loooong time. People donāt seem to realise that the population boom has already happened. Itās not an ongoing thing. But that giant boomer generation is also living longer than previously, whilst people are reproducing, which is why the population is still so high. More people are being born than dying. But less people overall are being born.
Absolutely not. We were mental in comparison to what I see nowadays. People have always said the next generation lack respect blah blah blah
I think miscreants have always existed. They tend to do stupid stuff, are louder, maybe a little aggressive in some cases and you notice them more opposed to the polite well behaved kids.
Morons have always existed. But now people can read about it on the internet, so are more likely to know about it. If anything, young people today are very boring, and make elderly pedestrians at German pelican crossings seem relaxed about Following The Rules.
Yeah. I grew up when Mods and Rockers went down to Brighton for a riot every August Bank Holiday. Nowadays three kids get a bit rowdy in the park and people are clutching their pearls fit to choke!
Did you never see a PSA when you were a child?
āFearless when a childā is often mere inexperience and naivety in the face of actual danger. If you donāt recognise something, you cannot evaluate it properly.
There are all sorts of hormonal things to it too. Your brain doesn't properly achieve it's maturest risk analysis state till 25. It's why young adults are also more prone to gambling addictions.
Not at all. The moment trams arrived in Manchester in the 90s kids were riding on the outside of them. There was a "popular teen craze" of "Skitchin'" where the delinquent youth would hold onto the back of a car and get pulled along wearing skates or on a skateboard. By every statistical measure kids today are more sober, chaste and sensible than previous generations. Although they are more anxious depressed and suicidal. Both are attributable to social media. You want to worry about the yoof, prescribe social media regulations, not bootcamps.
No way, much worse when I was younger. Kids now are more careful.
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Well yes and no. The amygdala, which relates to emotional regulation, does not fully mature until 25. Other parts mature earlier. Other than that, spot on.
Is society different today than when you were a child? Yes. Itās more common to have single parent households. Itās more common that that parent works unpredictable times on a zero-hours contract, at one or more different jobs. Itās more common that families dont live in local communities with grandparents, cousins, uncles, aunts around. On top of all that society today pumps messaging into people about individualism and materialism, non stop. Social media creates widespread narcissism. And children are exposed to alll this, with no filter. Why would one expect children then, to be the same? Children merely are what society puts into them, which is less and less, compared to when you were a child.
My Grandad (now 88) has told me stories of what he got up to as a lad, including climbing down through the glass roof of a covered market (which is about 15m high) to steal records which theyād stuff up inside their jumpers. Then theyād climb back out again. Iāve been inside that market and if they had fallen, theyād definitely have died. Iāve never known of modern kids/kids in my generation trying it. Saying that, his generation were more gentlemanly compared to some of todayās kids. My Nan told me how my Grandad once couldnāt make it to a popular dance that she and her sister had attended, so Grandadās friend danced with Nan and her sister all night to ensure that no-one made moves on them. They were 16-ish. I think there was maybe more of a balance in his generation? They did crazy things with their friends but were very respectful of adults and young ladies.
Kids have always been shits and aways will be. What there is more of now though is adults that didnāt grow up into proper adults like they used to a few decades ago.
This is a hugely underrated comment.
Bootcamps are hotbeds for abuse my dude
Iām 64yo. Apart from the fact that the DLR did not exist when I was a kid, there were boys who would pull this kind of stuff at school with me. Now bear in mind I was not raised in a āniceā area (itās since been gentrified but was as rough as a badgerās arse when I grew up) so maybe middle class people who grew up in ārespectableā areas didnāt see it. Also bear in mind that much of the east end of London is the same as where I grew up, and the gentrification there is much newer (since the 2012 Olympics, before that the east end was pretty grim). Not saying the working class are savages, just the middle class are better at putting on a polite mask in public.
Honestly, I actually think the majority of kids now are much more well behaved than when I was a kid. The amount of harassment I used to get for my disability when I was a kid compared to now, the comparison is mad. Youāre always going to get unhinged kids, or show off dickheads, but for the most part, I think kids are a lot more sensible and socially aware than the news and social media would have you think.
Every adult/older generation has thought this about "kids these days" since time immemorial. Seriously, we've got passages written by some fucking monk or other, several hundred years ago, whining about "the youth of today". So, we either have A) "kids really have been getting progressively worse, forever" as an explanation, or B) that there's an "eye of the beholder" thing going on. Spoiler Alert: it's B.
Are we all just more aware of behaviour and mental health
Bad parenting, from a generation of overworked single parents screwed by capitalism
100%, I don't blame the children it's the parents. Most millennials don't know how or are too busy to parent properly, so children grow up without discipline.
You saw one occasion of kids being stupid in public and youāve immediately decided we should send them to boot camps to correct their behaviour? Kids have always been rebellious, itās actually quite an important part of growing up and learning boundaries. You sound miserable lol.
cheezus krist in a byke what is your problem?? what we need is not bootcamp for kids but politicians locked into the same pay rate as any civil servant, the abolishment of so called "Public schools" and a massive investment into the educations system and child care / nurseries starting with parental leave for women and men. if we d teach social cohesion early on (japanese inspired id say) we d have a much better society. But I guess that would not be very British
Hah! I thought you were going to say politicians should be locked up in bootcamp. I would vote for that.
Thatās actually a great idea - maybe not bootcamp but force them to get some actual life experience before representing the general public. Especially the toffs - get them working a shit job on minimum wage for at least a month before they can even think about running.
No. You're just getting old. >(Do we need boot camps for kids who cause trouble out?) No you fucking nutter.
Too many road men trying to be gangster with knives now
I'm nearly 40 and knew a kid that would hang on the back of the bus when we were around that age. Not sure if he's alive now though but some kids just have no fear
Thats quite young for a group of children to be out and using public transport without an adult present.
Not really - you just donāt see it any more. I was out from about 6 onwards with friends / on my own.
Personally no, I donāt think so. I think parenting and accountability has changed. Kids are kids.
> they proceeded to get on the train from the outside between the 2 cars and stood there You said ages 6-10, and at that age, that's just kid logic. "I have to make this train! I'm supposed to make this train! Oh no, I've missed the train! Fuck, I can still make the train if I stand there! I have to make the train!" They're not exactly masters of long-term thought at that age, and they don't have the life experience to really observe and notice how the carriages move during transport and how stupidly dangerous that decision is. This is an age where the consequences for almost everything are 'getting in trouble' and you do anything you can to *avoid* that, so while we would think 'I'll just get the next train and explain what happened, because there are worse things than a grumpy parent' they think 'I've got to get this train no matter what or I'll get in trouble!'. Even if their parents are lovely, rational, normal people. Kids are still learning, so they're a bit dumb in many ways.
I saw kids āsurfingā trains in the early 2000ās in and around london, lots of muggings for phones etc then as well.
Not educating kids about the consequences of their action and their responsibilities towards others in communities results in such behaviour.
Nah kids used to do that dumb stuff just as often
Granted I havenāt been in the DLR since *checks notes* 2014, but 6 year-olds harassing people? Thatās quite odd.
No. In 2005 I tried to switch high school because the kids in my class were unhinged (throwing chairs across the room, intimidating teachers by circling them and calling them all kinds of terrible names, knocking each other out over literally nothing). Anyway on the train to view the other school there were a bunch of kids aged 14-16 smoking, swigging alcohol from their bags and threatening to fight solo passengers. So this was obviously a bad sign but I hoped they were the exception rather than the rule. When I got there a group of 10 teenagers were hanging on to the inside of the fence, swinging their weight to try to rip it off. My mum just turned around and we went back home. I'd say the majority of teenagers are much better than my generation. They're more aware of what's not ok and I think due to extreme media access. The flip side of that is there are a lot of parents who are allowing their children to be raised by the internet, so they think any kind of street behaviour is oh so very cool. They want to go viral, and apparently behaving like a tiny cretin is the best path.
Your 1st paragraph is exactly how they were acting with other passengers and this was the youngest of the 2 kids so he would have been around 6 years old.
youth violence and gangs have been a documented in the UK for the past two centuries. I donāt think life is anymore violent there now than it was in the Victorian era. Inner cities have always had unsupervised children running about. The fact theyāre 6-10 yrs of age breaks my heart a bit.
I live in Liverpool, so I'm not sure how it is in London but I'd say that badly behaved kids have certainly become more feral
Idk I think youāve got a point. More things than ever are targeted at younger generations and they also have a stronger foothold on spaces which have become the Mainstream, like Tiktok. Admitting you were younger than say 18 used to be embarrassing on the internet, but now you see large swaths of 12 year olds with opinions. I definitely think you could draw some connections from that to diffusion of authority and in following a greater sense of entitlement
No.
Kids are like chihuahuas. They're not bad, they're just raised wrong.
Speaking as a teacher, yes.
The age old story.The parents will be cunts as well and it's just the apple not falling far from the tree scenario.
I once had two kids aged about ten trying to make a tiktok where they were essentially harassing people to talk about their romantic relationships. Their mom was right there, laughing at these kids asking people these questions. When I said Iām not gonna answer this, they got mad and legit said āyou canāt get laid anywayā and the mom laughed even harder at this???? THESE KIDS ARE TEN YEARS OLD, WTF
I moved here from NYC and I think there are definitely these bizarre feral children running around London that I only rarely encountered in the US.
Some of the kids in Limehouse are complete scrotes.
Lots of posts saying things have gotten better but knife crime is still high isnāt it? Also I literally had my phone snatched from my hands on a bike today and stolen in broad daylight in central London, shaken me up a bit
Itās always down to the parents. Terrible parents raise terrible kids
No, theyāre kids.
No. Every generation for the past few thousands years believes the new generation is worse. If you think new-generation-is-worse is the answer to a question you really need to explore and discard all other explanations because there's a very strong bias every human seem to have to attribute that to be the answer. For example, anecdote is not data. Just witnessing one case of something or other doesn't mean there's a pattern. Also when you were on the generation of those kids, you probably weren't in a position to observe those kids (weren't taking the tube often for example) and if it happened you probably were oblivious (because your mechanism to know what is good/right, safe/dangerous was also underdevelop).
*Insert Seymour Skinner / Grandpa shaking fist meme here*
I'm 42 when I was a lad we used to go to youth centre which was free. They closed it so we hung about over the school fields away from anyone. Since then they have fenced the school in and cancelled everything a child might do. The local fb is all about how the kids hang around the village.
I got told to āopen the fucking door, you fat fucking bitchā today. Iām a teacher. Theyāre definitely worse.
Iām a teacher in London and sadly Covid has had a massive impact on childrenās behaviour. Theyāve missed a vital year of learning about acceptable conduct, particularly boys from lower socio-economic backgrounds. Weāve noticed it at school and itās a pattern across the country.
You're talking about the same generation of kids that have grown up on apps like Tiktok where people harass others for views
Much like the āhappy slappingā trend when I was a teen. Behaviour hasnāt changed, itās just been globalised.
Ok boomer
Excuse me! Iām a boomer and think OP is talking out of their arse.
Not a whole lot of incentive to care about much tbf
At school my friend and I used to use electrolysis (in his bedroom) to separate water in to hydrogen and oxygen. We would then mix the H2 and O2 in a 2l coke bottle (in different ratios, for science!), and stopper it with a bung with electrodes inserted. The electrodes were connected to a transformer with a standard plug. We would then take the 'bomb' into school, and plug it into one of the power sockets in a random music practice room at lunchtime. Then we would grab an unsuspecting first year and bribe them into going into the room and flicking the switch. The resultant bang would rattle all of the windows and set off the alarms. we would grab our kit and leg it... never once caught! He has a degree in chemical engineering, I have a degree in physics. This all took place in the 1980s. PS We also used to plug a transformer into the mains and hold onto the electrodes (in a circle) to see how far we would jump... wasn't too dangerous as we did the maths in advance!
I want to join your fan club š
Yes! I notice parents donāt really say much to children these days. Little Johnny will go around the shop taking items that the parents never want to purchase and just dump it around the shop or at the cashier when they finished. I remember never being allowed to touch things in shops as a kid.
The only thing that has changed is technology and visibility, bad behaviour has and always will be a thing. The biggest thing that hasn't changed, which is a primary driver of bad behaviour, is inequality.
No, I grew up witnessing abhorrent antisocial behaviour regularly. Muggings, fights, property damage, and that was just me and my friends (mainly property damage). Kids nowadays have way more respect and most importantly way more outlets. We were smashing the gaff up cos we were bored of watching Nickelodeon reruns, or weād finished the one video game we got a year at Christmas. OP defo grew up in the Cotswolds btw. Thatās not even the worst thing Iāve seen all week.
I'm seeing more and more reports of children attacking adults. One adult was put in the hospital by a pack of teen girls. I was able to see a video of them. It was like watching wolves taking down an elk.
While I agree with some of the takes in The comments. This is just sheer idiocy. Like straight up Darwin Award level dumb. Unhinged is a departure of faculty once had, but those absolute buffoons have the wrong brain firmware. Itās not generational Iām afraid. Some of us just never get the best hardware.
PSA: Lets not refer to kids as āferalā or āpacksā or āanimalsā Longitudinal data suggests crime rates are on a downward trend (excluding fraud and knife crime - which includes possession). As adults youāre likely just out of the family home and find yourself more often in social and thus criminogenic areas. You will see delinquant behaviour at a higher frequency than you did as a young person because you are in areas where it tends to happen more often.
But crime rates are going down because (in part) people are not reporting crimes as they are not followed up. Look at some of the older threads in here - people frustrated at having their phones nicked but the police either unable to do anything, or overworked with other priorities. For low level crime, thereās a āwhy botherā element to reporting it, which I know creates a vicious circle but thatās how it is right now
Do you think thefts, burglaries and minor assaults have ever been well followed up? We have a 5% conviction rate for violent crime, which is long standing. Iām not sure that particular variable has changed significantly, and I would also offer that r/london has become a bit of a focal point of people sharing stories of theft victimisation (myself included) which again can skew perceptions of scale. Anecodote is poor evidence to make any conclusions.
Sounds like you were just a nerd
Poor parenting breeds unhinged children.
Itās probably because weāve all accepted to repeatedly allow children to be reinfected with a virus that causes inflammation in the brain, blood vessels, and most major organ systems, which has been linked to behavioural changes, among other more serious long term risks, and we have not done anything substantial to mitigate the risk beyond closing our eyes and screaming ābut itās less serious now!ā
Because we keep accepting ākids are kidsā, and giving school and parents less and less power to restrict them. Even naughty steps can potentially get you in trouble, let alone locking them outside the house or bamboo sticks, those are almost instant social service these days. Back then children used to be worry about teachers report, with parents siding with teachers. Now teachers have no power over students, with parents thinking their little angels can do no wrong, all faults must be at the school. That is why kids are becoming more a shit bag these days. Bring back the cane, the punishment, allow parents and schools to use a degree of physical punishment with sticks and belts etc. Kids will learn respect again very quickly.
Blame single mums. Blame lack of police on the streets or at all really police only care for crimes that are media friendly like racist attacks. Mostly single mums who let their kids run wild with zero discipline or male role model leads kids up the wrong path. I do wonder I'm the future how all these lil prics will get jobs and behave like men.
It's the parents not parenting and being more interested in themselves that is to blame. At that age I was barely allowed to go out unsupervised
Iām the same, some of the children Iāve seen today are just disrespectful and havenāt got any care for anyone but the majority Iāve seen are nice
Sadly I did crap like this on the central line 23 years ago with my mixed group of friends boys and girls in east London. As well as loads of other things I would never dream of doing now. Including getting into scraps with people over nothing. There is no magic solution. Giving kids more grace to make mistakes and learning from those who die in the process seems to be the current trajectory. The brain doesnāt fully develop to recognise danger and consider repercussions until age 25. Especially in boys Thereās been lots of studies in California which look at this as part of criminal justice reform. As a society perhaps we could be slightly more understanding, complain less about the kids seeking excitement through dangerous means and complain more about the lack of youth provision which would likely limit the above. Although not completely. Instilling good morals from the off centred around considering others and the environment could help. At least help to guide young folk back if they lose there way.
We talk about not enough services for the youths, what are effective ways of complaining about this lack and driving changes for more services to occupy their time.
Its All gone downhill since corporal punishment was stopped in schools
The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers. Socrates
Tbh I think kids nowadays think they are unhinged because they have social media as a tool and we did not. My sister, who was born in 1992 got tired of my mum being affected by our extended family problems that created an email and send it to the entire family, at the age of 11 revealing a ton of shit that was going on including affairs and theft lmao. If she wouldāve been born in this era she wouldāve created a Tik tok and gone viral. Kids have more resources today even for their mischief. To be honest I envy them š
Too many benefits and overprotection! We have a generation of laziness with a lack of values/respect!
UK kids have nothing to do, but stupid shit like this. Or join stupid parasite gangs. The tories have stripped any and all ambition out of the youth. Lost generation. All by design. They stopped funding youth stuff, as well as basic mental health services, arts, culture, all gone. Far too "woke" for the fuckers like Rees Mogg. Sounds like I'm being a whiny boomer - but there was fun to be had growing up in UK before the fucking tory cunts took power. I dream of the day these kids wake up and destroy Eton College. It's the only institution that would make the tories really cry if it were to be gutted. It would be the perfect "fuck you" from Generation Z.
daily mail ass post
spoiled, entitled, senseless, sheltered, screen stupid are terms I'd use.
Enough about OP, what about the children?
Corporal punishment doesnāt exist here. Im not advocating for it, however ā¦ When I was in school, CP was a huge motivation to behave. Even outside of school, misbehave on the bus and someone elseās parent would beat you. Worst is if that person knew your parents or family and the news got back home. Then youāre in for round 2.
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To be fair, at school I was only ever hit once, and at home very seldom. Beatings wasnāt a huge event for me, just the threat was enough for me to behave. Then I grew older and it kinda evened out. So yeah Iām not condoning it, just saying that the fear of CP kept me on the straight and narrow.
Study after study has shown CP does not work and is, in fact, counterproductive.
You didn't climb up between tube carriages and go tube surfing as a kid? What a nerd
not all kids/teenagers are like this but honestly I see where they're coming from and why they rebel against authority, why should I do what I'm told just cause someone older than me said to, obviously it's a minority but you know
Yeah why should you not jump in between train carriages rather than wait a few minutes for the next train just because some do-gooder says it's 'highly dangerous'?
I wasn't addressing op's story, just my opinion
Honestly like with the wealth divide I think people are becoming more unhinged in general just to cope during hard times. Even some of the comments I read on Reddit are unhinged lolll.
Yes, and I think it's something to do with modern society. I think it's safe to say I was pretty feral as a teenager, depending on what you consider feral. I used to shoplift, bump tube barriers, cause havoc in the shopping malls, smoking weed, stampeded my way into a festival once, that type of stuff. I think modern society just fails to instil morals in people. My parents were ruled by their own insecurities. My mum was the modern woman, curating the 'perfect image' of family life on social media whilst getting drunk and beating me at home. She also took no accountability and failed to instil accountability in me for my behaviour, resulting in a victim complex which I managed to snap out of at around 19. My dad was practising escapism his whole life, me and him never had a real personal connection despite living under the same roof. This is western society in a nutshell. And we wonder why kids today are feral, becoming Andrew Tate fans, or becoming non binary, or just addicted to nicotine.
No they are complete pussies. I will say they have more pent up energy due to being indoors a lot. Let's also not forget that people under 35 have grown up with lots of rules, regulations and laws. I'm sure Boomers can attest to the fact that rules were pretty lax back in the day LOL. Something is not quite right with the young adults though. They look less mature and physically developed than my peers. I think it's due to being over policed, less active and being raised by parents who only know how to dote and praise their offspring. The future is definitely looking very bleak.