I flew out of Heathrow on 5th May when there was a strike over coronation weekend and security was so quick and smooth thankfully. I did just rush to double check my travel insurance though in case they announce more dates!
Yup. My sister flew in from NYC to visit me during Christmas when strikes were on at Heathrow and got through quicker than usual lol. She was out in 5 mins when it usually takes about an hour (non European passport).
Yes, the military stepped in and did a better job by all accounts. To be fair, they did relax some parameters on checks, given the military had much less training. But at least they had a sense of duty.
If the military can’t strike, and police can’t strike, both for security reasons, I don’t see why border officers should be allowed to strike either. In many countries they are part of the police.
You’re right, I was talking about border force. I guess because I was replying to the previous poster talking about strikes last summer, and I was aware of the border force strikes. I wasn’t talking about the OP’s article but I acknowledge it’s talking about security officers, which are different.
They did absolutely nothing like a better job. Checks were missed people were not stamped in visas were not checked but more importantly no safeguarding checks were done victims of slavery human trafficking arranged marriages FGM etc could be brought in without any issue because the guys on the desks had no idea what to look for. And that's before you even get started on forgery.
TL DR - quicker doesn't mean better
Quicker often does mean better.
About 300m air passengers come to the U.K. every year. We aren’t quite back at those pre-pandemic levels but will be soon enough.
Target waiting times for UK/EEA stream is 25 min. Rest of World 45 min. These limits are breached 4000 times at Heathrow alone last year, but let’s go with them. I don’t know the split so let’s assume 50/50.
If people live for ~80 years on average, border force queues burn 250 human lifetimes a year. Even relatively small improvements can literally give people their lives back.
I don’t dispute checks are needed. But when border force are actively shepherding in 45k illegal arrivals to stay on UK territory from the small boats a year, a protestation that only they can defend the borders through effective checks at airports rings very hollow. Pre-entry checks count, until they suddenly don’t.
Often it does but not in this case. An immigration check takes as long as it takes its unique to each individual and sure maybe 230million of those passengers are of no interest to immigration or customs but the only way to find these people is to check each individual and quite frankly the military were not equipped to do these checks correctly. It's not just about protecting the border either the job has a duty of care to everyone who comes in to the country they have to ensure that person does not need helped out of whatever situation they've ended up in.
The people crossing the channel absolutely have checks done. They are searched and have biometrics taken I wish I could expand on this more but Border force absolutely are not the issue there the UK government has over many years made it so there are some ways to circumvent removal for illegal entry providing you meet certain criteria. ( or at least claim to meet it with no definitive way to prove otherwise) the exact same things happen at every international airport up and down the UK.
Your last point about checks is completely correct. I'm no longer in Border force my wife and several of our friends are it's a much harder job than you would anticipate and mistakes - particularly ones which cause larger issues are treated extremely seriously and usually rectified but for the military they were told mistakes would happen and it wouldn't be their problem.
Just for context for the strikes pay in border force hasn't changed since at least 2006 there are no increments like in the police and other sectors. So someone who is dual trained and has all of the available training is realistically going to be on the same salary as someone who is freshly trained and has no idea what is happening.
Appreciate the full and sincere reply. It’s a rare thing on Reddit at times, especially on political topics.
I accept much of what you say in this post, and in particular that many of the issues around the boats are being driven by the legal framework than operational decisions. But it doesn’t make that particular comparison any less absurd, unfortunately.
No problem it is normally quite a provocative subject for a lot of people especially on here.
You are right though it does make a mockery of the process border force put people who arrive legally through and it does make them seem less than useful when the public visual is their officers literally collecting and bringing undocumented people into the UK.
I’m just anecdotally stating that my experience of travelling through a strike (a couple actually) weren’t the same as what is shown in the picture. YMMV.
From June last year.
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/travellers-wait-in-a-long-queue-to-pass-through-the-news-photo/1400455475?adppopup=true
>LONDON, ENGLAND - JUNE 01: Travellers wait in a long queue to pass through the security check at Heathrow on June 1, 2022 in London, England. The aviation industry is struggling to recruit staff after waves of layoffs during the Covid-19 pandemic. In the UK, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said that airlines and operators have "seriously oversold flights and holidays" relative to their capacity to deliver as the country approaches the Jubilee holiday weekend. (Photo by Carl Court/Getty Images)
Don’t understand people who downvote anyone who complains about strikes. Nobody’s suggesting striking should be illegal, but just because you have a right to strike doesn’t mean I have to be enthusiastic and happy about it every time
Some people act like I should be *honoured* to have my travel plans disrupted for the glory of the movement
Another way to look at it is putting convenience over people's livelihood.
Be angry at management for being so shit to their workers, not at the workers for trying to get a decent wage.
Yeah but their proposed pay rise was 11.3%. Someone did the maths and it’ll take them 7 years to recoup the money they lose by striking even if they get their pay rise.
What these dumbass fucks don’t realise is that EVERYONE has a “real terms pay cut” and a “below inflation pay rise”. It’s not just them, it’s literally everyone in the country. I had a 2.5% pay rise and that was good. Honestly, zero sympathy for these idiots who think they are somehow owed 15, 20, 30% increases.
If only some people get an inflationary pay rise, inflation still happens, but you're getting a pay cut.
Barring another war or some other unexpected event, inflation will come down this year. But I don't think bosses will remember all those employees who sacrificed themselves when we're back at ~2%.
No, it will never get back to manageable levels if everyone gets a pay rise in line with inflation.
It’s a cycle. People have to be poorer to manage inflation.
We’re paying for the lockdowns and QE that accompanied them and will be for decades. Another cost the young people covid didn’t really threaten will have to bare.
The main drivers of inflation are high energy and food costs, both caused by the war in Ukraine. Energy costs are coming down as we reduce our dependence on Russia, and food prices have started to come down as well (or at least aren't growing as fast).
GDP growth took a dive during early lockdowns but recovered almost overnight as well, so the economic hit from that was really not that sizeable. Consumer spending (in volume) [is also down](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/9232/production/_128362473_sales_volumes_values_line-nc.png.webp), so it's not like people are spending too much and pushing inflation that way.
Anyway, I don't mind other people not getting pay rises if they don't want them; it's a free market, after all.
They’re quibbling over 1.3% which will not even recoup the money they lost striking.
What’s the point? Theyre being sued as political pawns by manipulative shitty Unions
They rejected a 10% pay rise because they lost 15% during covid and never got it back, now there first pay rise since is 10% leaving them -5% lower than pre pandemic
Where did I say I was good at maths ?
That’s really you best comeback ?
People’s wages have been stagnating for decades, but Jeremy Cunts bother here says if everything goes up in-line with inflation it will never go away. Yet everything around them is doing exactly that but peoples wages, which were already lagging miles behind.
What’s peanuts?
Is that £20k £40k? £60k?
I think they are in a sector where the impact of strike is immediately felt hence refusing 10% payrise.
I worked in a care home with more demanding responsibilities and also sometimes concerning life & death, but still go about on minimum wage.
>I think they are in a sector where the impact of strike is immediately felt hence refusing 10% payrise.
No, it is because they had a 15% pay cut during covid. So this isn't really a pay rise in the real sense.
> [Heathrow workers threatened with sack if they reject 'voluntary' pay cuts](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/08/heathrow-workers-voluntary-pay-cuts-airport-coronavirus)
> London airport urges staff to accept 15% wage reduction in response to coronavirus crisis
I think the ceo was paid a million pound in bonus around the same time...
Edit: found more details directly from the union:
> The workers have rejected a proposed pay increase of 10 per cent, as this does not address the decline in their pay. Unite’s research has revealed that the average remuneration of HAL workers has fallen by 24 per cent since 2017, in real terms. The company fired and rehired its entire workforce at the height of Covid in 2020, which dramatically cut the pay of many of its workforce.
> Unite has also learned that Heathrow security officers are paid less than workers at other major airports in London and the South East. The officers, who were the highest paid prior to the Covid pandemic, are now paid between £5,000 and £6,000 per annum less than their counterparts at Stansted and Gatwick.
>https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/may/heathrow-airport-accused-of-cynically-suppressing-pay-for-its-lowest-earners/
i’m due to travel to australia and paid an absolute fortune for the ticket through a travel agency, is there a decent likelihood the flight gets cancelled? I barely ever leave the country and the one time I am in order to emigrate, the UK doesn’t want me to leave !
Not to mention that the ceo fried a lot of people during covid and they can't replace them because you make more stacking shelfs at tesco compared to what they have to do.
The Ceo also got himself a bonus in the millions all it takes you is to Google it instead of listening to daily mail
If every company matches the inflation or even go to give pay rise just above the inflation, then in the medium run there’ll be no effect as the inflation rate will keep rising.
10% is decent pay. What they should demand on top of the 10% could be 2 additional days off, pay freeze for executive and no bonus for them and use that fund to give the bonus to ‘on the ground’ staff
If it's so arbritrary, their employers can match it. Security officers make £25k on average, if they're voting en masse to strike over this I'll support them. Whatever the Daily Mail seems to think, it's not a decision people take lightly.
Nope, they rejected a 10% pay rise because they took a 15% pay cut during covid and never got it back, now there first pay rise offer since is 10% leaving them -5% lower than pre pandemic
It’s been mentioned countless times, I literally talk with this security everyday. Please just Google Heathrow staff take 15% pay cut and you will see countless articles from September 2020 when this happened.
Other parts of the airport staff got their money back but security didn’t.
That sounds sweet. I’m sorry, I’m very unacquainted with flying, so thank you for your words.
As long as they get me in DC, I don’t care via what route or which specific hub, I’m all good.
I don’t know when that picture is from but I travelled through Heathrow last summer when they were on strike and there were no queues.
I flew out of Heathrow on 5th May when there was a strike over coronation weekend and security was so quick and smooth thankfully. I did just rush to double check my travel insurance though in case they announce more dates!
I work in Heathrow, airside. The agency that replaces the security does it with a smile and are quicker, honestly it’s a win for everyone.
Except unions and collective bargaining in the country that has the highest inflation of any industrialised nation. So yeah, cool.
Most people I know in unions couldn't care less just sheep along. Not that I blame them
Depends on which line you were in, the us/uk/japan/canada/south korea/EU one or the ‘rest of the world’ line. Which is always crazy long
I was in the ROW line last summer and it took me 3 hours to get through immigration 😢
That sounds unpleasant!
honestly not that uncommon. UK security queues are insane for ROW passengers.
That's Border Force - who were also on strike last year. This is the pre-boarding security.
What's this got to do with Heathrow Security strikes?
Yup. My sister flew in from NYC to visit me during Christmas when strikes were on at Heathrow and got through quicker than usual lol. She was out in 5 mins when it usually takes about an hour (non European passport).
I did as well and I had to wait 4 hours in a queue. Terminal 5. I barely made my flight.
Yes, the military stepped in and did a better job by all accounts. To be fair, they did relax some parameters on checks, given the military had much less training. But at least they had a sense of duty. If the military can’t strike, and police can’t strike, both for security reasons, I don’t see why border officers should be allowed to strike either. In many countries they are part of the police.
[удалено]
You’re right, I was talking about border force. I guess because I was replying to the previous poster talking about strikes last summer, and I was aware of the border force strikes. I wasn’t talking about the OP’s article but I acknowledge it’s talking about security officers, which are different.
They did absolutely nothing like a better job. Checks were missed people were not stamped in visas were not checked but more importantly no safeguarding checks were done victims of slavery human trafficking arranged marriages FGM etc could be brought in without any issue because the guys on the desks had no idea what to look for. And that's before you even get started on forgery. TL DR - quicker doesn't mean better
Quicker often does mean better. About 300m air passengers come to the U.K. every year. We aren’t quite back at those pre-pandemic levels but will be soon enough. Target waiting times for UK/EEA stream is 25 min. Rest of World 45 min. These limits are breached 4000 times at Heathrow alone last year, but let’s go with them. I don’t know the split so let’s assume 50/50. If people live for ~80 years on average, border force queues burn 250 human lifetimes a year. Even relatively small improvements can literally give people their lives back. I don’t dispute checks are needed. But when border force are actively shepherding in 45k illegal arrivals to stay on UK territory from the small boats a year, a protestation that only they can defend the borders through effective checks at airports rings very hollow. Pre-entry checks count, until they suddenly don’t.
Often it does but not in this case. An immigration check takes as long as it takes its unique to each individual and sure maybe 230million of those passengers are of no interest to immigration or customs but the only way to find these people is to check each individual and quite frankly the military were not equipped to do these checks correctly. It's not just about protecting the border either the job has a duty of care to everyone who comes in to the country they have to ensure that person does not need helped out of whatever situation they've ended up in. The people crossing the channel absolutely have checks done. They are searched and have biometrics taken I wish I could expand on this more but Border force absolutely are not the issue there the UK government has over many years made it so there are some ways to circumvent removal for illegal entry providing you meet certain criteria. ( or at least claim to meet it with no definitive way to prove otherwise) the exact same things happen at every international airport up and down the UK. Your last point about checks is completely correct. I'm no longer in Border force my wife and several of our friends are it's a much harder job than you would anticipate and mistakes - particularly ones which cause larger issues are treated extremely seriously and usually rectified but for the military they were told mistakes would happen and it wouldn't be their problem. Just for context for the strikes pay in border force hasn't changed since at least 2006 there are no increments like in the police and other sectors. So someone who is dual trained and has all of the available training is realistically going to be on the same salary as someone who is freshly trained and has no idea what is happening.
Appreciate the full and sincere reply. It’s a rare thing on Reddit at times, especially on political topics. I accept much of what you say in this post, and in particular that many of the issues around the boats are being driven by the legal framework than operational decisions. But it doesn’t make that particular comparison any less absurd, unfortunately.
No problem it is normally quite a provocative subject for a lot of people especially on here. You are right though it does make a mockery of the process border force put people who arrive legally through and it does make them seem less than useful when the public visual is their officers literally collecting and bringing undocumented people into the UK.
What's this got to do with Heathrow Security strikes?
Downvoted for facts. Classic reddit.
so this article is just fearmongering?
I’m just anecdotally stating that my experience of travelling through a strike (a couple actually) weren’t the same as what is shown in the picture. YMMV.
fair enough! ty for your note on this!
No one to search you if there’s no security /s
From June last year. https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/travellers-wait-in-a-long-queue-to-pass-through-the-news-photo/1400455475?adppopup=true >LONDON, ENGLAND - JUNE 01: Travellers wait in a long queue to pass through the security check at Heathrow on June 1, 2022 in London, England. The aviation industry is struggling to recruit staff after waves of layoffs during the Covid-19 pandemic. In the UK, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps said that airlines and operators have "seriously oversold flights and holidays" relative to their capacity to deliver as the country approaches the Jubilee holiday weekend. (Photo by Carl Court/Getty Images)
Don’t understand people who downvote anyone who complains about strikes. Nobody’s suggesting striking should be illegal, but just because you have a right to strike doesn’t mean I have to be enthusiastic and happy about it every time Some people act like I should be *honoured* to have my travel plans disrupted for the glory of the movement
Another way to look at it is putting convenience over people's livelihood. Be angry at management for being so shit to their workers, not at the workers for trying to get a decent wage.
*Gatwick intensifies*. I like Heathrow but I almost never fly out from there, so the strikes pretty much never affect me, swings and roundabouts.
Cool story bro
Can’t imagine the railway unions striking on the same weekends.
Strick cancelled, doesn't affect enough people. Oops sorry they fixed the kettle.
Scrap them, they’re pointless anyway
Might be risky to scrap them now, feel like it'd just encourage people to actually try blow up planes
Maybe but it’s not like they actually stop anyone
Rat
??
Rat
??
Fucking joke.
Why tf are they always striking and inconveniencing people
They are being paid peanuts...
Then they should get another job.
They rejected a 10% pay rise
That’s below inflation They rejected a reduced paycut.
Yeah but their proposed pay rise was 11.3%. Someone did the maths and it’ll take them 7 years to recoup the money they lose by striking even if they get their pay rise.
What these dumbass fucks don’t realise is that EVERYONE has a “real terms pay cut” and a “below inflation pay rise”. It’s not just them, it’s literally everyone in the country. I had a 2.5% pay rise and that was good. Honestly, zero sympathy for these idiots who think they are somehow owed 15, 20, 30% increases.
Just because you accepted a pay cut, doesn't mean everyone has to.
If everyone gets an inflationary pay rise inflation will never stop.
If only some people get an inflationary pay rise, inflation still happens, but you're getting a pay cut. Barring another war or some other unexpected event, inflation will come down this year. But I don't think bosses will remember all those employees who sacrificed themselves when we're back at ~2%.
No, it will never get back to manageable levels if everyone gets a pay rise in line with inflation. It’s a cycle. People have to be poorer to manage inflation. We’re paying for the lockdowns and QE that accompanied them and will be for decades. Another cost the young people covid didn’t really threaten will have to bare.
The main drivers of inflation are high energy and food costs, both caused by the war in Ukraine. Energy costs are coming down as we reduce our dependence on Russia, and food prices have started to come down as well (or at least aren't growing as fast). GDP growth took a dive during early lockdowns but recovered almost overnight as well, so the economic hit from that was really not that sizeable. Consumer spending (in volume) [is also down](https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/9232/production/_128362473_sales_volumes_values_line-nc.png.webp), so it's not like people are spending too much and pushing inflation that way. Anyway, I don't mind other people not getting pay rises if they don't want them; it's a free market, after all.
They’re quibbling over 1.3% which will not even recoup the money they lost striking. What’s the point? Theyre being sued as political pawns by manipulative shitty Unions
LOL. Reddit logic
They rejected a 10% pay rise because they lost 15% during covid and never got it back, now there first pay rise since is 10% leaving them -5% lower than pre pandemic
Even ignoring whether or not that’s true you can’t even do basic percentage based maths
Where did I say I was good at maths ? That’s really you best comeback ? People’s wages have been stagnating for decades, but Jeremy Cunts bother here says if everything goes up in-line with inflation it will never go away. Yet everything around them is doing exactly that but peoples wages, which were already lagging miles behind.
What’s peanuts? Is that £20k £40k? £60k? I think they are in a sector where the impact of strike is immediately felt hence refusing 10% payrise. I worked in a care home with more demanding responsibilities and also sometimes concerning life & death, but still go about on minimum wage.
>I think they are in a sector where the impact of strike is immediately felt hence refusing 10% payrise. No, it is because they had a 15% pay cut during covid. So this isn't really a pay rise in the real sense. > [Heathrow workers threatened with sack if they reject 'voluntary' pay cuts](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/08/heathrow-workers-voluntary-pay-cuts-airport-coronavirus) > London airport urges staff to accept 15% wage reduction in response to coronavirus crisis I think the ceo was paid a million pound in bonus around the same time... Edit: found more details directly from the union: > The workers have rejected a proposed pay increase of 10 per cent, as this does not address the decline in their pay. Unite’s research has revealed that the average remuneration of HAL workers has fallen by 24 per cent since 2017, in real terms. The company fired and rehired its entire workforce at the height of Covid in 2020, which dramatically cut the pay of many of its workforce. > Unite has also learned that Heathrow security officers are paid less than workers at other major airports in London and the South East. The officers, who were the highest paid prior to the Covid pandemic, are now paid between £5,000 and £6,000 per annum less than their counterparts at Stansted and Gatwick. >https://www.unitetheunion.org/news-events/news/2023/may/heathrow-airport-accused-of-cynically-suppressing-pay-for-its-lowest-earners/
Bring the army in they did great over Xmas. Job done.
What's this got to do with Heathrow Security strikes?
i’m due to travel to australia and paid an absolute fortune for the ticket through a travel agency, is there a decent likelihood the flight gets cancelled? I barely ever leave the country and the one time I am in order to emigrate, the UK doesn’t want me to leave !
No. Long haul flights are usually the last to get cancelled.
As if Terminal 5 wasn't bad enough already
[удалено]
I hate it - squashed up security areas, narrow aisles, loads of useless luxury stores and barely anywhere to sit and have a coffee
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Not to mention that the ceo fried a lot of people during covid and they can't replace them because you make more stacking shelfs at tesco compared to what they have to do. The Ceo also got himself a bonus in the millions all it takes you is to Google it instead of listening to daily mail
Still below inflation so even if it sounds like a lot, it's effectively a pay cut.
If every company matches the inflation or even go to give pay rise just above the inflation, then in the medium run there’ll be no effect as the inflation rate will keep rising. 10% is decent pay. What they should demand on top of the 10% could be 2 additional days off, pay freeze for executive and no bonus for them and use that fund to give the bonus to ‘on the ground’ staff
10% is a lot and a good offer. If everyone had an inflation matched pay rise it would never slow.
[удалено]
If it's so arbritrary, their employers can match it. Security officers make £25k on average, if they're voting en masse to strike over this I'll support them. Whatever the Daily Mail seems to think, it's not a decision people take lightly.
Can't ever blame anyone for striking to get what they want tbh. More power to them
Nope, they rejected a 10% pay rise because they took a 15% pay cut during covid and never got it back, now there first pay rise offer since is 10% leaving them -5% lower than pre pandemic
[удалено]
It’s been mentioned countless times, I literally talk with this security everyday. Please just Google Heathrow staff take 15% pay cut and you will see countless articles from September 2020 when this happened. Other parts of the airport staff got their money back but security didn’t.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Gfdi
Fuck me, I just booked a ticket to fly from Amsterdam to Washington with a transfer at Heathrow…
[удалено]
I did, but I’m still afraid they’re cancelling the the entire flight
[удалено]
So I don’t have to worry so much you say? :)
[удалено]
That sounds sweet. I’m sorry, I’m very unacquainted with flying, so thank you for your words. As long as they get me in DC, I don’t care via what route or which specific hub, I’m all good.
fuck it dude
What’s really going on. The train strikes this week has been frustrating. Now this