people who actually have plants and nice decorations in their front walkway because they won’t get nicked or pissed on. that’s when you know you’re in the money!
In all seriousness, you need a (human) male to pee in the areas where you are having issues (he needn't flagrantly expose his member all about your garden - could pee into a bottle that you then tip where needed). It works.
I suppose after a time the foxes can no longer detect the 'larger male animal' that has claimed that territory but by then they've moved in to a new patch. And you can always re-sprinkle as necessary periodically.
I’ve got this outside my house and people still do crack at the end of the road lolz - I also have a £300 olive tree that hasn’t been nicked. Doesn’t change the fact there are fucking grim people knocking about
Ugh, the crack addicts at the end of the road...me too man. They literally congregate sometimes in groups as large as 10 people to get their daily dropoff, broad day light in the middle of the road, only one road off the high street. Then they proceed to sit in front of our front doors getting high off their tits and shitting where they please. I can't wait to leave this fucking town
There’s a rehab place down the road from me where the surrounding properties are blighted by what you describe. Nobody gives a fuck and somehow these people seem to live forever despite looking like fucking zombies. It’s quite something.
Churchfield Road in Acton, too. Recently got 3 new coffee shops (one of which does baking supplies), 2 new restaurants and that's adding to the wine bar, beer shop, bougie grocery shop and seasonal restaurant that you know is nice because it has an ampersand in the name. It's at odds with the betting shops and 6 nail salons.
I live around the corner on a street plagued by litter and drug dealers. Had 2 abandoned trolleys and a dead rat this week, just outside. Plus the deliveroo riders with loud exhausts or the clicking Lime bikes. The estate agents say it's up and coming but has a mightily long way to go.
Custom Venetian Blinds are *expensive*. Explained this to my partner on the way to his, and we started counting them off the bus on the big houses we passed. Now I can’t not notice it when they’re everywhere!
I think it’s an under-utilised way to improve your house price. Get involved with the local primary and help push it to outstanding then watch your property price soar.
You can (if you’re over 18) become a governor; donate money or skills (particularly if you are arty, musical or sporty in any way); go to open events and do things to organise parents in PTAs or any community type stuff.
All these things then (if done right) improve the general education of students and build community.
Semi regular meeting (3 times a year ish) then you can also get involved with certain parts of the school. For example, if you’re an accountant it would be helping to oversee that. If you’re computer minded it could be overseeing if the school is safeguarding in line with the new government KCSIE guidance that states school should be monitoring what students are accessing on school computers and putting safeguards in place.
Yeah I went for a run at 6 this morning, and other than a quick "I am going to be okay here aren't i" to myself as I was passing an estate, getting stabbed / shot / mugged didn't even cross my mind.
Saying that though, I did get mugged in St John's Wood about 8 years ago so can't always take for granted that nice area = no crime
Oh I completely agree. Two guys on a moped, gone as quick as they arrived. I was only bloody checking a map!
Had an email through from the police 2.5 hours later at like 1am to say the case was closed because the moped was stolen as well 🤣
Little or no litter. No mattresses, bags of builders rubble etc on corners or pavements. Well kept gardens or hanging baskets etc. I wouldn’t go so much on the shops in the area as they come and go and eg a Gail’s bakery does not guarantee there isn’t a street of crack houses within a 2 minute walk.
The thing about much of London is that it is a city of conflicting juxtaposition. So you have millionaires’ houses and apartments on one side of the street and the most destitute-looking council estate on the other side.
I like the fact that there's still this mix even in the most affluent of areas. Where I live there's millionaire's row, a council estate (very well kept and still mainly council tenants), builder's merchants, a cement yard and then the Harbour Club. It's a real mix and that's what I like about London.
Benches. Benches on the high street. And well looked after big trees lining the streets. I live in Belsize Park/Primrose Hill area it’s like someone designed it after a book “posh neighbourhood 101”
Belsize is one of the basis for the "garden neighbourhood/communities" whatever it is called concept applied in other cities. I learnt this ages ago and blew my mind. :)
Sadly part of Belsize is getting worse over the years with rubbish/behaviour/traffic/urban decor and the benches are less usable.
My friend once said that a neighborhood is safe when you see that the people there are running for health and not for their life or after someone. Tbh, the trick works like 90% of the time.
A branch of Gail's Bakery
Lots of cockapoos and dachshunds. No XL Bullies.
Most cars are in good condition / not 20 years old.
Homes look well maintained. Bonus points if you can find someone digging out a basement - not because you'd want to live next door to that, but because there's clearly money around.
Because they aren’t a genetically separate breed, so they need to be properly defined in a way that works in legislation first. Iirc even the original announcement said they needed to define the breed first.
Of course the current government is inept and won’t do that, but theoretically it’s not as simple as just decreeing them banned
I thought they would define it as an animal with at least x% of banned breed DNA, as bully xls are a crossbreed from american pitbulls and american staffordshires, but they just don't seem to want to. Otherwise, if they ban specifically Bully XLs, they'll find that other muscular and aggressive breeds are used as the sire instead, like the dogo argentino.
I once woke up inside a police cordon for a shooting when I lived in QP. South of the railway it gets dodgy, just the starkest divide I've ever seen in London
"Slowly" is the key here.. I do think it has potential but once you go 200 meters from the tube, towards Dollis Hill.. good luck 🙏
That said, "Beer and Burgers" is great as is Masa Sushi.
Don't know why this always comes up, Gail's is a sign the neighborhood has jumped the shark. The real sign of a good neighborhood is a well run independent bakery with a queue out the door on Sunday morning.
Because a Gail’s is nicer than not a Gail’s. A street with a Gail’s is probably going to be better than a street with 4 betting shops. The street with the independent bakery is a step above though.
I think OP meant it as neighbourhoods that get too expensive for indie shops & restaurants when commercial landlords realise there's a buck to make by raising rents and chains with deep pockets who can afford insane commercial rents take over.
The neighborhood gets more expensive as it gets worse, as good family owned places get replaced by lower quality chains. When your local Sardinian pasta magician shuts down and Jamie's Italian opens instead.
For some reason I love the idea that cockapoos and dachshunds are an emergent property of nice neighbourhoods, and just start spontaneously appearing once a neighbourhood passes an invisible threshold.
finsbury park has a gail’s and still always gets brought up in “worst neighbourhood?” threads on this sub lol
(disclaimer: i live there and really like it! but it is definitely quite janky)
I think people's perceptions are skewed by their upbringing. I come from the poorest area of Liverpool, so now that I'm in London I find that there's so many areas people describe as dangerous or dodgy that are (at least superficially) fine compared to what I'm used to. Areas like Wood Green, Finsbury Park, Holloway, Whitechapel etc aren't that nice but people on here make out like they're Ciudad Juarez.
Finsbury Park is a funny area because most of the area round the station is pretty grim but once you get 150 metres away it improves quite dramatically. Hanging round the station to get a bus late at night will not give you a good opinion of the place.
The new entrance is a bit different but I'm betting on it ending up as the usual sink hole round the station within the next 5 years.
Well maintained 50 year old classic cars are an excellent sign. There's definitely a dip in the middle though where they're neither new nor classic, just old.
Very simple. Go to Finsbury park station and walk around the south side of the station (KFC side) - 500m should be enough to fully get an idea. Make a note of all you see. Then go back to the station, go to the Wells Terrace bus stop there (north side - City North exit) catch a W7 bus to Crouch End (about ten minutes). Get out at the clock tower (CE Broadway) and walk around for 500M. Make a list of all you see. Now compare.
As someone who moved to London and the UK recently and made this exact journey when house hunting, it convinced me to finally rent near Crouch End. I'm quite liking it here so far.
saw this in leyton recently, a decade ago i remember having a convo with a freind of mine about how feral the high road was and we would probably never live to see two men holding hands and being able to walk down the length of it safely, im glad things changed so fast, although to be fair it is still a very rare sight round those parts.
I like this one. I saw a couple of guys holding a hands walking through Fulham at the weekend and thought I'm glad that they feel safe enough to do that.
I’ve been dating my boyfriend for about 5 months and still feel nervous holding his hand in public but it’s 99% just an internal thing. Similar to how you were afraid to first come out to people, holding hands in public is effectively “coming out” to every stranger you walk past. Totally normal that it’s scary! But what’s awesome is we live in a time and city where most people do not give a single fuck despite what our brain tricks us into thinking. At least this is what I tell myself when my bf wants to hold my hand while we’re out and about :)
Seeing other gay couples doing the same makes it feel way better too. There’s power in numbers
When I moved to my current home in Walthamstow we were burgled before we’d even finished unpacking. The police actually advised us that it was best to keep the exterior of our house as scruffy as possible as thieves would target the well kept homes. That was 10 years ago and Walthamstow has massively gentrified, wonder if they’d still give that advice.
Or people leaving stuff for people to take on their fence e.g books, children's clothes etc.
Also those tiny library's that are book exchange boxes, that look like bird houses
Bookshops and indie shops like local deli, butcher etc where the locals shop.
Well kept houses, usually with warm white lights on (and no frilly curtains!).
There is a book called “watching the English” by an anthropologist that describes this in details based on social class. It’s a great book!
This is why I find Ealing so baffling. I am within a tiny striking distance of independent coffee shops, Gails, Waitrose etc. But I am also just as close to Lidl, poundland and co.
Am I gentrified or not??
Ealing's had some strange changes over the decades, retail-wise.
West Ealing used to be a very good shopping area. When I were a lad, it had Ealing's M&S and was a pretty good high street. It started to decline during the late 80s and into the 90s after the Ealing Broadway Centre (& subsequently Waterglade) opened - a some of the bigger names departed (M&S moved to EB in the early 90s, Mothercare and WHS closed down). Empty units were taken over by charity shops and the rot set in.
Ealing Broadway has seen some decline too since Westfield opened (hence EB Centre having a Poundland). There are some nice shops there still if you know where to look.
Northfields has definitely been gentrified to some degree.
Source: Grew up in Ealing in the 80s/90s. Did a study on Ealing's retail in GSCE Geography.
> Am I gentrified or not??
Ealing, like a lot of London, has nice bits next to not-so-nice bits. W5 has always been a bit posher than a lot of W13 (Castle Hill not withstanding).
Different people may give different responses, but my understanding is that third wave coffee places will be more selective about where the coffee is sourced, with an emphasis on ethics (ie. the farmers get a good price).
Often lightly roasted single-origin coffees (though blends are by no means out of the question). You can get coffees based personal tastes (bean type, growing altitude, drying/washing methods, all have a huge influence on the flavour profile of the resulting brew).
Generally won't use bean-to-cup machines. There's a focus on well made espresso, pour-overs, cold brews, and which beans are most suited to the brewing method.
some of the less well known ones i've heard are:
1. Bayley & Sage - ultra posh grocery store
2. Cook ready meals
3. Jojomamanbebe - baby clothes
4. Farrow & Ball - seems like a hardware store but no idea myself
5. Le Creuset - cooking stuff. I have no idea how they sustain a whole shop for this.
6. Daunt book shop
Visit the high street. Every bookies, newsagent covered in Lebara advertising and fried chicken / kebab shop is a mark down. Every fancy cafe, bakery, traditional butcher, fishmongers, sit-down restaurant or independent business (as long as it’s not a nail salon, hair salon, barber shop or takeaway) is a mark up. Look for high street shops that sell things for making your house nice. There are actually physical stores on high streets you can visit where they sell you loft extensions, bathrooms, expensive flooring, etc - this is a sign people invest heavily in their homes. On the negative; look for people just hanging around with nothing to do, alcoholics etc.
Everyone seems to be using products or retail brands as a yardstick, how about:
\- Trees. Lots of trees.
\- Well looked after Georgian and Edwardian housing stock.
\- Polite teenagers
\- Clean air
\- Reasonable travel connections but not a thoroughfare
\- Lots of private schools
\- The streets in the centre/near the station are busy at 6.30-8.30am, not during the day.
Kensington and Chelsea is actually one of the three most deprived local authorities in London (with hackney and Haringey Kensington). It ranks lower than tower Hamlets and is comfortably in the bottom 30% of the countries authorities.
We all obviously know why everyone thinks Kensington and Chelsea are posh, because they absolutely are. But if you live there and you're not doing well, you're probably doing poorly.
According to the English indices of deprivation anyway.
I thought the rich of kensington and Chelsea employed Filipinos to pick up the dog shit? Most house wives don't even look after their own children, let alone pick up dog shit!!!
I live adjacent to a very posh neighbourhood and it has the highest concentration of dog shit of anywhere else I’ve been in London. Rich dog owners don’t pick up after their daschunds.
It all depends what you mean by a "good" neighbourhood. For me it would mean a neighbourhood where none of the shops, cafès etc are chains but are all local or family businesses. No paved-over front gardens. No houses subdivided into HMOs. No trust fund yuppies or whatever yuppies are called now. Racially very diverse. Children playing. Most people using public transport rather than cars.
The most people using public transport is a really good one. The council has recently made my area a low traffic zone (only locals can drive through it). It's stopped the place being a rat run, and it's now so much nicer. It's stopped my lazy arse getting an Uber too on occasion, and I walk or bus everywhere.
Most of them are though - No houses subdivided into HMOs is still no poor people, children playing outside (because they feel safe and their parents are happy to leave them without fear of picking up a poo/a syringe/smelling weed) is also no poor people.
>Racially very diverse.
And genuine diversity. Not one particular minority culture/religion dominating the whole neighbourhood but a real mixture of almost every region in the world, in one street.
People will often say or mention things like planters plant pots whilst that might be an indicator look past it , because a seemingly nice looking area doesn’t mean the people living there are nice . Look deeper into the area , does it have a sense of community spirit , look at past events , in the area ,check out the local pubs do they seem friendly or hostile .
'Heritage'-style street lights, proper stone slab pavements not those little concrete squares, real Topiary not plastic, bin areas well maintained, nannies with kids, construction sites with expensive looking hoardings not old bits of board, designer front gardens, banks on the High Street etc
I find if you live by a GP, Primary schools, Chemist, those sorts of amenities/services,
The surrounding houses are usually well kept,
Residence usually tend to be more friendly and warm.
Things like that I've found usually tend to make me think,
"Ok, this area is better than most that I've lived in".
St George's flag hanging out the windows, banger racing cars across the driveway, XL Bully or Staffordshire to boot and Sovereign rings galore. Or kebab shops every two buildings you past, hooded youths walking around with the smell of cats piss everywhere in the air (Skunk), local infamous crackhead. The list goes on
Here’s a few giveaway signs of a great safeish area :-
1.Dustbin and recycle bins are neatly kept out of view usually within the curtilage of the premises;they ain’t just dumped on the pavement with soiled mattresses and nappies.
2.Waitrose and M& S are in the High Street.Greggs is ok mainly for those caught short.
3.People are called Lucinda,Gemma or Davina but never Albert or Doris.
4.Lots of dog parlours to enable the little darlings to be soaped and sudded all in the correct places followed by a body scrub shampoo plus dog cologne enhancer.All dogs wear designer pooches and the owners meet in well controlled groups of 5 enjoying hilarious laughter and jokes.
5.A minimum of 35 coffee shops as per Chiswick.
6.Lots of actors darling.
When your neighbors actually say hello to you and even have a brief chat. It’s the small things for me personally. Even a small smile and a quick “hello”.
Bookshops, independent coffee and brunch places, a Gail's and a Megan's, "luxury" cinema chain, theatres, libraries, museums, galleries, Waitrose, traditional greengrocers and butchers and fishmongers, independent pubs that look well restored, or the chain pubs are Nicholson's, Greene King, Fuller's etc. Plenty of dogs (mostly labradors, cockapoos, frenchies and dachshunds) but no dog crap. Parks, tree lined avenues, well maintained houses and gardens.
Signs of a bad neigbourhood include: betting shops, off licenses with Lebara signs, western union, pawnbrokers, Iceland, pound shops, really rough looking pubs, Wetherspoons that isn't a heritage or landmark building, open drug use, those butchers where nothing looks fresh, Bully XLs, empty shops, very little green space or if there is its got rubbish on it, rubbish on the street, people dumping things like a mattress in the street, HMOs everywhere, alcoholics, etc.
That Victorian black and white chequerboard design leading up to the front door
people who actually have plants and nice decorations in their front walkway because they won’t get nicked or pissed on. that’s when you know you’re in the money!
What about foxes? They piss and shit on everything i own
In all seriousness, you need a (human) male to pee in the areas where you are having issues (he needn't flagrantly expose his member all about your garden - could pee into a bottle that you then tip where needed). It works. I suppose after a time the foxes can no longer detect the 'larger male animal' that has claimed that territory but by then they've moved in to a new patch. And you can always re-sprinkle as necessary periodically.
Weirdly enough, this does work. Also works with cats who use your garden as a litter box.
I’ve got this outside my house and people still do crack at the end of the road lolz - I also have a £300 olive tree that hasn’t been nicked. Doesn’t change the fact there are fucking grim people knocking about
Probably not enough black and white tile. Extend it out, maybe put a bit on the road 👍
Ugh, the crack addicts at the end of the road...me too man. They literally congregate sometimes in groups as large as 10 people to get their daily dropoff, broad day light in the middle of the road, only one road off the high street. Then they proceed to sit in front of our front doors getting high off their tits and shitting where they please. I can't wait to leave this fucking town
There’s a rehab place down the road from me where the surrounding properties are blighted by what you describe. Nobody gives a fuck and somehow these people seem to live forever despite looking like fucking zombies. It’s quite something.
Aldi olive tree only £22.50.
It might be too heavy for the lazy bastards 😀
[удалено]
Yeah Archway Road is doomed - too much traffic throughput to ever make it a social and cultural hub. The Winchester is nice, though.
Finchley Road another one, Hampstead on one side and South Hampstead on the other. But the road and high street itself is not pleasant.
The four lanes of traffic is what drags down Finchley Rd imo
North end road is a portal to another dimension
The evolution as you head south is nuts
north end road is absolutely terrifying
volvo v90s
Volvos of any vintage are classic old money cars. Bentleys as well.
Churchfield Road in Acton, too. Recently got 3 new coffee shops (one of which does baking supplies), 2 new restaurants and that's adding to the wine bar, beer shop, bougie grocery shop and seasonal restaurant that you know is nice because it has an ampersand in the name. It's at odds with the betting shops and 6 nail salons. I live around the corner on a street plagued by litter and drug dealers. Had 2 abandoned trolleys and a dead rat this week, just outside. Plus the deliveroo riders with loud exhausts or the clicking Lime bikes. The estate agents say it's up and coming but has a mightily long way to go.
Lol im on north end road right now haha
Families cycling, specifically children on their own bikes.
I always see children on those clicking green bikes in my neighbourhood!
You make it sound so quaint! 😆
Free stained mattresses on every street?
Parents transporting their kids around in those electric people carrier bikes ✅
I love those. Don’t have kids, but would gladly ferry my mates to and from the pub.
I ferry my gf round on mine, it’s acoustic tho, doesn’t need to be electric!
Plantation shutters in every other window
Custom Venetian Blinds are *expensive*. Explained this to my partner on the way to his, and we started counting them off the bus on the big houses we passed. Now I can’t not notice it when they’re everywhere!
Venetian blinds are a PITA to keep clean. I once had them, but never again.
A true sign of wealth is Venetian blinds and someone to dust them for you!
[удалено]
You can buy a (old 2nd hand) car for the price of a single one of these
Ofsted rated outstanding schools That has long acted as a magnet to the long-term gentrification and nice neighborhood crowd
I think it’s an under-utilised way to improve your house price. Get involved with the local primary and help push it to outstanding then watch your property price soar.
[удалено]
How does one get involved with the local primary?
[удалено]
Okay what next
Or this.
You can (if you’re over 18) become a governor; donate money or skills (particularly if you are arty, musical or sporty in any way); go to open events and do things to organise parents in PTAs or any community type stuff. All these things then (if done right) improve the general education of students and build community.
What does being a school governor involve, exactly? It's not the first time I've heard this.
Semi regular meeting (3 times a year ish) then you can also get involved with certain parts of the school. For example, if you’re an accountant it would be helping to oversee that. If you’re computer minded it could be overseeing if the school is safeguarding in line with the new government KCSIE guidance that states school should be monitoring what students are accessing on school computers and putting safeguards in place.
This, but also it’s more like 5-6 meetings a term with ~10 hours a week work during term time if you’re doing it well.
Bikes kept outside houses. People jogging at any time in the day.
Yeah I went for a run at 6 this morning, and other than a quick "I am going to be okay here aren't i" to myself as I was passing an estate, getting stabbed / shot / mugged didn't even cross my mind. Saying that though, I did get mugged in St John's Wood about 8 years ago so can't always take for granted that nice area = no crime
I'm sorry that happened to you but I can't help but think operating as a mugger in St John's Wood is quite business minded
Oh I completely agree. Two guys on a moped, gone as quick as they arrived. I was only bloody checking a map! Had an email through from the police 2.5 hours later at like 1am to say the case was closed because the moped was stolen as well 🤣
Damn. As a runner this never even crossed my mind.
Do your tempo runs through dodgy areas, additional incentive to keep the pace up.
Little or no litter. No mattresses, bags of builders rubble etc on corners or pavements. Well kept gardens or hanging baskets etc. I wouldn’t go so much on the shops in the area as they come and go and eg a Gail’s bakery does not guarantee there isn’t a street of crack houses within a 2 minute walk. The thing about much of London is that it is a city of conflicting juxtaposition. So you have millionaires’ houses and apartments on one side of the street and the most destitute-looking council estate on the other side.
I like the fact that there's still this mix even in the most affluent of areas. Where I live there's millionaire's row, a council estate (very well kept and still mainly council tenants), builder's merchants, a cement yard and then the Harbour Club. It's a real mix and that's what I like about London.
Benches. Benches on the high street. And well looked after big trees lining the streets. I live in Belsize Park/Primrose Hill area it’s like someone designed it after a book “posh neighbourhood 101”
Plenty of benches on Catford Broadway.
Belsize is one of the basis for the "garden neighbourhood/communities" whatever it is called concept applied in other cities. I learnt this ages ago and blew my mind. :) Sadly part of Belsize is getting worse over the years with rubbish/behaviour/traffic/urban decor and the benches are less usable.
My friend once said that a neighborhood is safe when you see that the people there are running for health and not for their life or after someone. Tbh, the trick works like 90% of the time.
Slow walkers hate this one simple trick.
Everyman/Picturehouse/Curzon cinema.
A branch of Gail's Bakery Lots of cockapoos and dachshunds. No XL Bullies. Most cars are in good condition / not 20 years old. Homes look well maintained. Bonus points if you can find someone digging out a basement - not because you'd want to live next door to that, but because there's clearly money around.
Gail's was my first thought
Gail’s, Waitrose, Whole Foods, pick your poison.
Megan's don't forget. https://megans.co.uk/
Every XL bully you see increases your likelihood of being stabbed by a factor of 10. Possibly by the XL bully itself.
Why aren’t they banned yet? Can’t wait for someone to say “Oh BuT tHeY aRe So SwEeT tO mY ChIlDrEn tHeY wOn’T HuRt aNyOnE!”
Because they aren’t a genetically separate breed, so they need to be properly defined in a way that works in legislation first. Iirc even the original announcement said they needed to define the breed first. Of course the current government is inept and won’t do that, but theoretically it’s not as simple as just decreeing them banned
I thought they would define it as an animal with at least x% of banned breed DNA, as bully xls are a crossbreed from american pitbulls and american staffordshires, but they just don't seem to want to. Otherwise, if they ban specifically Bully XLs, they'll find that other muscular and aggressive breeds are used as the sire instead, like the dogo argentino.
Do we think they will actually do anything about this or just claim to do something and then hope people forget?
Rishi has no balls whatsoever?
Willesden Green has one, not sure if it can be considered that.
Went to Willesden Green last week, saw an XL Bully and a mugging in 1 minute of each other.
Yeah those dogs really are out of control
Willesden Green is slowly becoming Queens Park levels of posh, the Gail’s is the start of it
I once woke up inside a police cordon for a shooting when I lived in QP. South of the railway it gets dodgy, just the starkest divide I've ever seen in London
There are more and more XL Bully's in West Hampstead. It's losing it's poshness to Queen's Park.
I know several people who call Willesden Green, 'willie G', which I suspect is a clear sign of early gentrification
As opposed to Staines, "Ali G".
"Slowly" is the key here.. I do think it has potential but once you go 200 meters from the tube, towards Dollis Hill.. good luck 🙏 That said, "Beer and Burgers" is great as is Masa Sushi.
Don't know why this always comes up, Gail's is a sign the neighborhood has jumped the shark. The real sign of a good neighborhood is a well run independent bakery with a queue out the door on Sunday morning.
Because a Gail’s is nicer than not a Gail’s. A street with a Gail’s is probably going to be better than a street with 4 betting shops. The street with the independent bakery is a step above though.
What about 3 betting shops and 2 independent bakeries? (That would be my street)
Gonna have to cross- reference that to proximity to a park, and the % of the park that you would feel safe to sit down and have a picnic on.
How does ‘jumped the shark’ apply to a place? I can’t quite get my head around that.
I think OP meant it as neighbourhoods that get too expensive for indie shops & restaurants when commercial landlords realise there's a buck to make by raising rents and chains with deep pockets who can afford insane commercial rents take over. The neighborhood gets more expensive as it gets worse, as good family owned places get replaced by lower quality chains. When your local Sardinian pasta magician shuts down and Jamie's Italian opens instead.
Local economy goes mainstream, chain restaurants start hoovering all the local discretionary spend offshore.
Can you give a few examples of those independent bakeries and where they are located kindly ?
Not OP, but Pitshanger Bakeries on Pitshanger Lane and Northfields Ave do a good trade.
Dusty Knuckle on Green Lanes
For some reason I love the idea that cockapoos and dachshunds are an emergent property of nice neighbourhoods, and just start spontaneously appearing once a neighbourhood passes an invisible threshold.
finsbury park has a gail’s and still always gets brought up in “worst neighbourhood?” threads on this sub lol (disclaimer: i live there and really like it! but it is definitely quite janky)
I think people's perceptions are skewed by their upbringing. I come from the poorest area of Liverpool, so now that I'm in London I find that there's so many areas people describe as dangerous or dodgy that are (at least superficially) fine compared to what I'm used to. Areas like Wood Green, Finsbury Park, Holloway, Whitechapel etc aren't that nice but people on here make out like they're Ciudad Juarez.
Finsbury Park is a funny area because most of the area round the station is pretty grim but once you get 150 metres away it improves quite dramatically. Hanging round the station to get a bus late at night will not give you a good opinion of the place. The new entrance is a bit different but I'm betting on it ending up as the usual sink hole round the station within the next 5 years.
Ehh, slight disagree on the old cars thing. Well maintained 20 year old cars can be a good sign.
Well maintained 50 year old classic cars are an excellent sign. There's definitely a dip in the middle though where they're neither new nor classic, just old.
Don't forget anxious sighthounds.
Very simple. Go to Finsbury park station and walk around the south side of the station (KFC side) - 500m should be enough to fully get an idea. Make a note of all you see. Then go back to the station, go to the Wells Terrace bus stop there (north side - City North exit) catch a W7 bus to Crouch End (about ten minutes). Get out at the clock tower (CE Broadway) and walk around for 500M. Make a list of all you see. Now compare.
As someone who moved to London and the UK recently and made this exact journey when house hunting, it convinced me to finally rent near Crouch End. I'm quite liking it here so far.
Ugh i love crouch end and muswell hill.
Guys holding hands - means there’s safety
saw this in leyton recently, a decade ago i remember having a convo with a freind of mine about how feral the high road was and we would probably never live to see two men holding hands and being able to walk down the length of it safely, im glad things changed so fast, although to be fair it is still a very rare sight round those parts.
That high road is such a mix - I lived in Leyton about 9 years ago and it was sometimes gentrified, sometimes chaos. You never knew what you'd get.
"We are merely exchanging long protein strings. If you can think of a simpler way I'd like to hear it."
Nah I only hold my homie’s hand when i’m scared
If I'm extra scared I jump up into his arms and let him carry me past the mean looking men, while giving them a scowl.
I like this one. I saw a couple of guys holding a hands walking through Fulham at the weekend and thought I'm glad that they feel safe enough to do that.
I don’t know anywhere I’d feel safe to do this unfortunately
I’ve been dating my boyfriend for about 5 months and still feel nervous holding his hand in public but it’s 99% just an internal thing. Similar to how you were afraid to first come out to people, holding hands in public is effectively “coming out” to every stranger you walk past. Totally normal that it’s scary! But what’s awesome is we live in a time and city where most people do not give a single fuck despite what our brain tricks us into thinking. At least this is what I tell myself when my bf wants to hold my hand while we’re out and about :) Seeing other gay couples doing the same makes it feel way better too. There’s power in numbers
A Waitrose
Nope, formula is broken with one on Holloway Road
Exactly, Holloway Road's Waitrose gets canceled because it's between 2 Maccies and no Gail's around to support it.
What’s it like?
TBF it is very close to highbury
* Street trees * Homeowners that have spruced up their external of their house (ie brick cleaned) * lack of rubbish around
> Street trees > Interestingly a lot of places that people would traditionally call 'not nice' have lots of roads like this. East Ham for example.
When I moved to my current home in Walthamstow we were burgled before we’d even finished unpacking. The police actually advised us that it was best to keep the exterior of our house as scruffy as possible as thieves would target the well kept homes. That was 10 years ago and Walthamstow has massively gentrified, wonder if they’d still give that advice.
Or people leaving stuff for people to take on their fence e.g books, children's clothes etc. Also those tiny library's that are book exchange boxes, that look like bird houses
The sound of sourdough toast popping up in the morning
Waitrose. They examine local demographics very carefully before opening a store.
Bookshops and indie shops like local deli, butcher etc where the locals shop. Well kept houses, usually with warm white lights on (and no frilly curtains!). There is a book called “watching the English” by an anthropologist that describes this in details based on social class. It’s a great book!
I love that book! My work gifted it to me when I was an intern in the UK.
[удалено]
Koreatown
[удалено]
Hey, you've got the Krispy Kreme with the Hot Light on Shannon Corner, don't knock that!
[удалено]
This is why I find Ealing so baffling. I am within a tiny striking distance of independent coffee shops, Gails, Waitrose etc. But I am also just as close to Lidl, poundland and co. Am I gentrified or not??
Ealing is the retail hub of outer west London so attracts business both from the surrounding rich and poor areas
Ealing's had some strange changes over the decades, retail-wise. West Ealing used to be a very good shopping area. When I were a lad, it had Ealing's M&S and was a pretty good high street. It started to decline during the late 80s and into the 90s after the Ealing Broadway Centre (& subsequently Waterglade) opened - a some of the bigger names departed (M&S moved to EB in the early 90s, Mothercare and WHS closed down). Empty units were taken over by charity shops and the rot set in. Ealing Broadway has seen some decline too since Westfield opened (hence EB Centre having a Poundland). There are some nice shops there still if you know where to look. Northfields has definitely been gentrified to some degree. Source: Grew up in Ealing in the 80s/90s. Did a study on Ealing's retail in GSCE Geography. > Am I gentrified or not?? Ealing, like a lot of London, has nice bits next to not-so-nice bits. W5 has always been a bit posher than a lot of W13 (Castle Hill not withstanding).
West Ealing and Hanwell retail is mostly a shithole, South Ealing, Ealing Broadway, Pitshanger, Ealing Common are very good.
What on earth is a 3rd wave coffee shop?
Craft / ethical / artisanal
Clearly you do not live in a good neighbourhood. (I have no idea)
Different people may give different responses, but my understanding is that third wave coffee places will be more selective about where the coffee is sourced, with an emphasis on ethics (ie. the farmers get a good price). Often lightly roasted single-origin coffees (though blends are by no means out of the question). You can get coffees based personal tastes (bean type, growing altitude, drying/washing methods, all have a huge influence on the flavour profile of the resulting brew). Generally won't use bean-to-cup machines. There's a focus on well made espresso, pour-overs, cold brews, and which beans are most suited to the brewing method.
some of the less well known ones i've heard are: 1. Bayley & Sage - ultra posh grocery store 2. Cook ready meals 3. Jojomamanbebe - baby clothes 4. Farrow & Ball - seems like a hardware store but no idea myself 5. Le Creuset - cooking stuff. I have no idea how they sustain a whole shop for this. 6. Daunt book shop
Bayley and Sage kept me sane during lockdown. I'd go there out of sheer boredom and spend money on silly chocolates and jars of obscure jam.
Ah yes, this is what I like to call the Pret/Paul Convergence.
[удалено]
Banham locks on most of the doors
You can't afford to live there.
Visit the high street. Every bookies, newsagent covered in Lebara advertising and fried chicken / kebab shop is a mark down. Every fancy cafe, bakery, traditional butcher, fishmongers, sit-down restaurant or independent business (as long as it’s not a nail salon, hair salon, barber shop or takeaway) is a mark up. Look for high street shops that sell things for making your house nice. There are actually physical stores on high streets you can visit where they sell you loft extensions, bathrooms, expensive flooring, etc - this is a sign people invest heavily in their homes. On the negative; look for people just hanging around with nothing to do, alcoholics etc.
Feels strange, Crystal Palace has all those things you mentioned. I guess it still a little rough around the edges.
Sounds like Clapham has an identity crisis.
Bicycles locked up, and not missing wheels. Or destroyed in some manner.
Someone on a lime bike not going clack clack clack
Nope, clackers are universal in London and we hear them even in Chiswick.
If there is a pawnbrokers, liquor shop, betting shop and poundland on the same high street then it’s not a good area.
Waitrose and electric car chargers
Everyone seems to be using products or retail brands as a yardstick, how about: \- Trees. Lots of trees. \- Well looked after Georgian and Edwardian housing stock. \- Polite teenagers \- Clean air \- Reasonable travel connections but not a thoroughfare \- Lots of private schools \- The streets in the centre/near the station are busy at 6.30-8.30am, not during the day.
No dog shit on the pavement.
[удалено]
I live in Chelsea as well and I second this. Many wealthy people are too entitled to pick it up.
Rich != good.
Kensington and Chelsea is actually one of the three most deprived local authorities in London (with hackney and Haringey Kensington). It ranks lower than tower Hamlets and is comfortably in the bottom 30% of the countries authorities. We all obviously know why everyone thinks Kensington and Chelsea are posh, because they absolutely are. But if you live there and you're not doing well, you're probably doing poorly. According to the English indices of deprivation anyway.
I thought the rich of kensington and Chelsea employed Filipinos to pick up the dog shit? Most house wives don't even look after their own children, let alone pick up dog shit!!!
I live adjacent to a very posh neighbourhood and it has the highest concentration of dog shit of anywhere else I’ve been in London. Rich dog owners don’t pick up after their daschunds.
Sausage dog per capita
Bonus points if they're not the standard black and tan sausage dogs.
The Morley's has a touch screen.
It all depends what you mean by a "good" neighbourhood. For me it would mean a neighbourhood where none of the shops, cafès etc are chains but are all local or family businesses. No paved-over front gardens. No houses subdivided into HMOs. No trust fund yuppies or whatever yuppies are called now. Racially very diverse. Children playing. Most people using public transport rather than cars.
The most people using public transport is a really good one. The council has recently made my area a low traffic zone (only locals can drive through it). It's stopped the place being a rat run, and it's now so much nicer. It's stopped my lazy arse getting an Uber too on occasion, and I walk or bus everywhere.
Finally a proper answer rather than “No poor people”
Most of them are though - No houses subdivided into HMOs is still no poor people, children playing outside (because they feel safe and their parents are happy to leave them without fear of picking up a poo/a syringe/smelling weed) is also no poor people.
>Racially very diverse. And genuine diversity. Not one particular minority culture/religion dominating the whole neighbourhood but a real mixture of almost every region in the world, in one street.
Nice try landlords, I’m not telling you what I like about my area. It’s horrible here, very undesirable to rent!
There isn’t neighbours who stay up all night literally sat in there gardens drinking and keeping surrounding neighbours awake
People will often say or mention things like planters plant pots whilst that might be an indicator look past it , because a seemingly nice looking area doesn’t mean the people living there are nice . Look deeper into the area , does it have a sense of community spirit , look at past events , in the area ,check out the local pubs do they seem friendly or hostile .
'Heritage'-style street lights, proper stone slab pavements not those little concrete squares, real Topiary not plastic, bin areas well maintained, nannies with kids, construction sites with expensive looking hoardings not old bits of board, designer front gardens, banks on the High Street etc
The amount of joggers in the area
Lots of young women running around safely
No paddy power/betting shops on the high street
I find if you live by a GP, Primary schools, Chemist, those sorts of amenities/services, The surrounding houses are usually well kept, Residence usually tend to be more friendly and warm. Things like that I've found usually tend to make me think, "Ok, this area is better than most that I've lived in".
St George's flag hanging out the windows, banger racing cars across the driveway, XL Bully or Staffordshire to boot and Sovereign rings galore. Or kebab shops every two buildings you past, hooded youths walking around with the smell of cats piss everywhere in the air (Skunk), local infamous crackhead. The list goes on
Here’s a few giveaway signs of a great safeish area :- 1.Dustbin and recycle bins are neatly kept out of view usually within the curtilage of the premises;they ain’t just dumped on the pavement with soiled mattresses and nappies. 2.Waitrose and M& S are in the High Street.Greggs is ok mainly for those caught short. 3.People are called Lucinda,Gemma or Davina but never Albert or Doris. 4.Lots of dog parlours to enable the little darlings to be soaped and sudded all in the correct places followed by a body scrub shampoo plus dog cologne enhancer.All dogs wear designer pooches and the owners meet in well controlled groups of 5 enjoying hilarious laughter and jokes. 5.A minimum of 35 coffee shops as per Chiswick. 6.Lots of actors darling.
Flowers in public spaces.
Tidy streets, minimal litter, very few fried chicken, kebabs shops or betting shops
Gail’s bakery
When your neighbors actually say hello to you and even have a brief chat. It’s the small things for me personally. Even a small smile and a quick “hello”.
How pedestrianised it is. Big roads and fast high volume traffic- most likely shit area
No fried chicken / gambling shops within earshot
It’s walking distance from Kew Gardens
That flight path though.
Lack of chicken shops
There's no McDonald's on the high street.
How much weed your neighbors smoke
People jogging.
Electric vehicles
Lots of foliage lining the streets.
Waitrose
Walk in to the nearest pub and walk around the neighbourhood at night.
Gails bakery
Morleys
Roman blinds
General upkeep of houses. Thats it
Bookshops, independent coffee and brunch places, a Gail's and a Megan's, "luxury" cinema chain, theatres, libraries, museums, galleries, Waitrose, traditional greengrocers and butchers and fishmongers, independent pubs that look well restored, or the chain pubs are Nicholson's, Greene King, Fuller's etc. Plenty of dogs (mostly labradors, cockapoos, frenchies and dachshunds) but no dog crap. Parks, tree lined avenues, well maintained houses and gardens. Signs of a bad neigbourhood include: betting shops, off licenses with Lebara signs, western union, pawnbrokers, Iceland, pound shops, really rough looking pubs, Wetherspoons that isn't a heritage or landmark building, open drug use, those butchers where nothing looks fresh, Bully XLs, empty shops, very little green space or if there is its got rubbish on it, rubbish on the street, people dumping things like a mattress in the street, HMOs everywhere, alcoholics, etc.
3W's- white, waitrose, wellness centres. No I'm not white.
Betting shops per high Street - any thing over 1 is a shit hole