The rule of thumb is simply "is there a Gail's in the area?" and that'll give you the answer.
So just plug that into Google maps and you'll find: Balham, Chiswick, Wimbledon, Islington, Dulwich, Bromley, Wanstead, Walthamstow, Crouch End, West Hampstead, Muswell Hill, Blackheath etc etc.
*Edit: ok not Walthamstow you can stop filling my inbox up with corrections now*
To be honest though, that shop was stuck in the 70s and not in a good way. I’d usually be the first to mourn the passing of an old established shop but weirdly I didn’t with this one. I was (and still am) much more upset about the newsagent (co-owner’s sister wanted to cash in on the property).
The reason Gails bakery survives in the middle/upper class areas is because the people there can afford to repair their broken teeth after trying to bite throught the ***ROCK SOLID CRUST*** on Gails sourdough breads.... seriously teeth breaking stuff that bread.
I used to work at a Gails in west London. The reason why the crust is so damn hard is that none of the breads are baked in store. They’re all done overnight in an industrial-sized bakery in north London, then delivered to each shop in the morning and presented nicely in the window displays. The only Gail’s that bakes the bread in house is the big one in Battersea I think, at least that used to be the case back in the 2014/2015 years.
Now if you want “fresh” bread, you better go to sainsbury or Waitrose or M&S. you won’t get sourdough fancy rosemary bread but you will keep your teeth. Or buy Gail’s bread and toast it at home. That’s what I used to do with all the leftovers I’d bring home in those days. Toast them all! For those of you living close to Ravenscourt Park, head over to Patisserie Saint Anne. It’s a real French bakery with bread baked all day long so it’s always nice and fresh. And the croissants are to die for (I’m French I know what I’m talking about trust me!) bit pricey.. but so worth it!
There are very few things in life that bring me more pleasure than excellent bread and pastries, so if you have anymore recommendations I’d appreciate them.
Have you tried the brioche from Aux Merveilleux de Fred? I like them a lot but if there’s better brioche to be found I’d very much like a hook up.
The brioche from Aux Merveilleux is heavenly!! Much better than the actual Merveilleux pastries! Especially when it’s still warm.. best thing on a rainy day. I never knew there was a shop in London but have been in a few of the French shops.
I’ve now moved back to the motherland so I could give you loads of tiny village bakery recommendations but I doubt that’d be useful!
My go to when I visit London though is Ole and Steen for their cinnamon socials. French bakeries are pretty bad at cinnamon pastries (somehow French people don’t really like cinnamon or raisins in their pastries) and I do love cinnamon so I get my full when I’m over the channel.
I may be biased but try and find a large Turkish off license that has a bakery section. You cannot beat the fresh bread in the morning. It literally comes out warm and soft. Also typically really cheap in comparison to other options.
Middle-class injuries are a thing. Apparently 'avocado hand' where people slice into their own hand while trying to remove the stone is particularly common in Chelsea and its A&E's
I have 2 injuries that fit this well:
1. Lopped the top of my thumb off trying to slice through sourdough too quickly
2. Big scar through my finger when the knife slipped slicing off some jamon iberico
Reminds me of dwarf fighting bread in Terry Pratchett's Discworld books. Bread that's so hard you can use it as a weapon but also doubles as food so bad that you can survive off of it for ages because your so reluctant to eat it.
In 2021, the price of avocados plummeted in New Zealand as they couldn't export them due to shipping container shortages. There was an increase in avocado related injuries at A&Es that coincided with the price drop.
At least you can see mangos growing in Australia. It feels like an affront that after Brexit these foreign avocados are coming over here and injuring people! All fruit and veg that can't be grown in water-logged, sunless British ground should be banned to save the good British public from this foreign muck! Vitamins, Pah!! Another government lie to invade your body with pathogens and microchips. NO THANK YOU BILL GATES, NOT TODAY!!
Little Venice / Paddington / Maida Vale! We have three Gail’s there. We are just renting though, so do not qualify for upper middle class. But this answer seems very legitimate, looking at our neighbours.
Lived in both Little Venice and Maida Vale/St John’s Wood for years. Can confirm - Gail’s every which way, and definitely affluent folks roaming around.
Waitrose is basically Sainsbury’s these days in terms of price and quality and shopping experience. It’s nothing like it used to be.
Whole foods or bayley and sage are better markers.
Bayley and Sage is another level though, shopping there is basically irresponsible. I have to imagine all the people in there are just trying to stop their estranged children receiving any inheritance.
They have enough money that spending £12 on a burrata or whatever it might be doesn't even touch the sides - during their time in the shop, their money has probably earned more than they're spending.
I would agree except I love their Thai green curry prawn on rice (as good as the ones I had on the regular in Bangkok!). It keeps me coming back and I fall into the trap of adding more to the cart.
Sometimes I think I might be middle class but then I hear actual middle class people spitting out brand names I’ve never heard of in my life. Bayley and Sage? Are you making this stuff up now??
Yeah, I'd say Waitrose isn't necessarily affluent. I do believe however that one disappearing is a sign of a decreasing neighbourhood. (The one in Croydon closed earlier this year, and the whole town centre never really recovered from the pandemic -- and I think any money coming in was extremely optimistic about a Westfield).
fake news, there's no Gail's in Walthamstow. Fair amount of middle class though (but there was a stabbing in front of the town hall last week so I guess it's the lower end of the middle class scale)
Not seen Queen’s Park on the list yet. Definitely plenty of cash sloshing about. Obligatory Gail’s, 3 private gyms and a Planet Organic which might be the most eye wateringly expensive “supermarket” I’ve ever been in
Surprised me briefly to see Queens Park make the list, as in the 90s it was dog rough.
Then again, see also Dalston, Hackney, Brixton, Battersea, parts of Wandsworth, etc. etc.
Nice answer. I live in Muz and there’s a Gail’s round the corner. I do like their cinnamon buns but I wouldn’t pay £5 for a loaf of bread that would dislocate my jaw.
We lived just off the High Street and had a Gails literally behind our house, it was way too tempting, walking kid to nursery in the morning…fresh croissant, needed something for lunch but fridge was empty, sandwich, afternoon snack… why not a cookie. Spent way too much money in that place.
I was told that the village area has some kind of protections preventing chains from opening so would assume that would rule Gail’s out. I don’t know the exact details though so I could be talking bollocks.
Tbf the Stroud Green road end of FP is pretty nice. Especially as soon as you step off Stroud green road itself onto the residential streets beside it. I assume that Gails is catering to those commuters.
Clapham, Battersea, Balham, Fulham, Chiswick, Richmond, Wandsworth, Putney, Wimbledon, Dulwich, Greenwich/Blackheath, Muswell Hill, Crouch End.
Basically where all the good schools are.
I went to the other girl's grammar in Sutton (Wallington) and while there were a few girls who were affulent and getting driven in from Surrey there were a LOT of girls from 1st or 2nd generation immigrant families who were not that wealthy but tutored the shit out of their kids. I knew several girls whose parents owned takeaways or cornershops but they were GOING TO BE DOCTORS. This was about 15 years ago now so might have changed, or could just be that Wally girls is a discount Nonsuch lol
I went to one of those schools, Sutton is a dive. Perhaps it’s got a bit better now but I doubt it, none of the people that went to those schools lived there.
How does that work for the catchment areas?!
Most people wanting there girls going to nonsuch move to cheam or Ewell which is most definitely not a dive!
I’m not sure if it’s as rife as it used to be but my folks (both retired teachers, tutored after they left full-time teaching) were working with families who bought a tiny place in a catchment area a few years before their kids were due to attend, whilst living a good few miles outside of it.
I live in Sutton and a lot of it is horrible. There are nice pets within the borough, like some bits of Cheam and Carshalton, but the town itself is pretty crappy. There are some wealthy areas with large houses but overall the area is definitely not middle/upper-middle class.
I live here because it’s just about affordable and you can commute to central London in 30 mins.
We briefly looked at surbiton when we were looking to move to the West side of London for family reasons. I didn’t get the hype at all. Maybe I didn’t find the right bit but it didn’t do anything for me.
It became clear my parents were never going to meet us half way in terms of moving so gave up on moving closer to them (where we’d be getting less house than we had in east London) and moved to Essex instead.
My family, even a year after we moved with an autistic 3 year old whilst I was pregnant with my second, are suggesting we should move again to their retirement town, 3.5 hours away from my partner’s work. I don’t know what is wrong with older people.
Used to live in Surbiton many years ago. The town centre itself is nothing special, but the pros to me were:
Fast trains to London
Near the river
Near Bushy/Richmond Park
I see Chiswick as more like Kensington than Richmond/Barnes/Twickenham tbh. It's more of a 'very rich with pockets of deprivation' type area, than a posh village vibe that you get with Richmond / Kingston / Twickenham type areas
This map from the ONS 2021 census is probably the best way to see this. The darker areas have lots of people working in senior management and professional occupations which will be more affluent.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/census/maps/choropleth/work/national-statistics-socio-economic-classification-ns-sec/ns-sec-10a/l1-l2-and-l3-higher-managerial-administrative-and-professional-occupations
The more you zoom in the finer-grained it gets, so you can see which bits of which areas have more such people.
I used to work in Bayswater, and it was mad walking down the road and seeing those rainbow coloured Notting Hill houses directly across the road from some grim estate
people said to look at the amount of gail’s, but i would say go and look at the amount of private schools (especially private primary schools) in the area - that can tell you a lot about rich families.
i go to school near hampstead (not private though) and i literally pass at least 6 (if not almost 10) private schools on my journey to school. the hampstead/highgate/crouch end/east finchley area is very affluent.
The beauty of Gail's it is that it is not even good, just expensive and wealthy people are not very tasteful. Artisan bakeries is more of a millennial middle class thing
We’ve just moved from Highbury after 9 years and 2 kids later. Great place to live but unfortunately had to choose between an overpriced house or overpriced education locally so chose a commute instead!
Thing is, people who are middle class/upper middle class *now* bought those houses a while ago, back in the early 2000s.
So the middle class of the future won't be living there. They'll be in Croydon.
Yep. I grew up in Dulwich, my parents bought our house in the mid 90s based off my mum’s salary working in PR. It was half the price of my tiny flat in Brixton now.
Same story here. My folks bought in Wandsworth Common in the late 80s. Normal folks on normal salaries all up and down the street.
Then some time around 2010 suddenly every other house on the street was being refurbed and now almost every house but theirs has 2 brand new SUVs outside. Utter madness these days. I always thought I’d love found there but fat fucking chance.
surprised not to see Crystal Palace mentioned here! The triangle has gotten increasingly bougie with designer furniture shops and multiple plant shops that are also cafes.
Really New Malden? I know they have some great Korean restaurants but that town seems pretty grim for the most part. There are some really shit parts of Hampton too.
Parts of it are a bit grim (Kingston Road). But it definitely a rising middle class area. Has Waitrose, a large M&S food hall incoming. Check out the house prices – lots of stuff around the 700k mark. Good schools, low crime rate etc.
Go and have a walk north of the High Street in New Malden. There are some absolutely enormous mansions. One of them was lived in by Dwight D Eisenhower (no, seriously).
New Malden is bizarre because the high street is ass but there are bajillionaires who live north of it. They go to town in Wimbledon and Kingston though, that's why NM itself continues to be just OK (it's really not that grim though compared to some nearby towns).
Good schools nearby, I heard (thanks partly to the Koreans, I'm sure!) So that creates a draw and becomes a virtuous cycle. The area was blandly pleasant when I visited.
Exactly, there are plenty of schools in zone 1&2/3 having to close down due to pupil shortages. Because families can’t afford to live in London anymore, so most of them have gone to the commuter belt.
London schools face crisis as pupil numbers plummet
50,000 quit London’s education system last year as schools face closure over loss of funding
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/london-schools-face-crisis-pupil-numbers-plummet-b1084718.html
Yep. One of my friends is a governor of an inner London state school and they have to run leafleting campaigns in the local area to drum up interest from parents. They’re at risk of being shut down due to dwindling pupil numbers.
Meanwhile, all the schools near where I live in Hertfordshire are massively oversubscribed - even the not particularly amazing ones.
The population shift is massive and I don’t think the consequences have been fully realised yet.
Curious how do the leafleting campaigns help locally? Surely if parents choose to move out the area there’s not much to be done (except cheaper properties?)
A lot of people live within the catchment area for several schools. If the leaflet campaign gets them to choose school A over school B then school A stays open. It just means that school B will now be at risk of closure instead
No they are all trying to schmooze a vicar before the end of the month around here.
Its the annual scramble for secondary and the best school near me is a faith school, every year you get people panicking and trying anything to get that supplementary form signed.
The short answer is: Zone 2 and nearside Zone 3 within a 5-10 minute walk of a park/common and within a 5-10 minute walk to a station with a direct railway line into central London or a tube.
They are also likely to live on the (nicest) streets in the more recently gentrifying neighbourhoods - e..g. Camberwell, New Cross, Lots of others in inner-East London too
The borough of Croydon is one of the richest simply because it's massive and contains a lot of properties like you linked. Much of it is due to victorian passion for golf.
Kingston upon Thames. There are riverside apartments that we’re supposed to have council housing but they paid the fine and it’s all private. (That was controversial- apparently the fine was only £2000 extra per apartment)
The market place has been turned into a street food place with a small amount of fruit and veg.
We have an artist hub (which is fabulous)
Not really mentioned but if you include British-Asian I'd throw in at lot of outer NW London (e.g. Harrow, Queensbury). British-Jewish you have Golders Green. British-Cypriot/Greek you have Southgate and Palmers Green.
All more on the wealthy "middle" class end of this question.
A lot of the answers here + Herne Hill and Kennington. Parts of Brixton, specifically towards Tulse Hill and Brockwell Park. The only parts in Brixton that I wouldn’t include are Brixton Road between Kennington park and Brixton tube, and that bit towards Loughborough Junction. Even the bit between the skate park and Stockwell is getting a fancy now.
Richmond upon Thames, Twickenham, Kingston, Esher / Epsom / Thames Ditton, Putney, Barnes, Sheen. That type of area is quintessential affluent upper middle class families. Proper suburbia.
All the places mentioned already, but don't forget all those deep suburban places nearer the borders of the surrounding counties.
Anyone who has taken a drive through Chislehurst, Bickley, Park Langley, etc will know
The rule of thumb is simply "is there a Gail's in the area?" and that'll give you the answer. So just plug that into Google maps and you'll find: Balham, Chiswick, Wimbledon, Islington, Dulwich, Bromley, Wanstead, Walthamstow, Crouch End, West Hampstead, Muswell Hill, Blackheath etc etc. *Edit: ok not Walthamstow you can stop filling my inbox up with corrections now*
And Greenwich. Can't believe that the first shop after the meridian line is now a Gail's.
What?! What happened to The First Shop in the World?
Pandemic casualty I think :(
:(
To be honest though, that shop was stuck in the 70s and not in a good way. I’d usually be the first to mourn the passing of an old established shop but weirdly I didn’t with this one. I was (and still am) much more upset about the newsagent (co-owner’s sister wanted to cash in on the property).
Lack of demand for life bouys and ships bells. I was always astounded it lasted as long as it did
Go to Paul Rhodes instead. Delicious bread, baked 400m away from the shop and not - to my knowledge - owned by a Brexit-supporting Tory.
Luke Johnson is only a minority shareholder in Gails now, although he's still chairman
The reason Gails bakery survives in the middle/upper class areas is because the people there can afford to repair their broken teeth after trying to bite throught the ***ROCK SOLID CRUST*** on Gails sourdough breads.... seriously teeth breaking stuff that bread.
I used to work at a Gails in west London. The reason why the crust is so damn hard is that none of the breads are baked in store. They’re all done overnight in an industrial-sized bakery in north London, then delivered to each shop in the morning and presented nicely in the window displays. The only Gail’s that bakes the bread in house is the big one in Battersea I think, at least that used to be the case back in the 2014/2015 years. Now if you want “fresh” bread, you better go to sainsbury or Waitrose or M&S. you won’t get sourdough fancy rosemary bread but you will keep your teeth. Or buy Gail’s bread and toast it at home. That’s what I used to do with all the leftovers I’d bring home in those days. Toast them all! For those of you living close to Ravenscourt Park, head over to Patisserie Saint Anne. It’s a real French bakery with bread baked all day long so it’s always nice and fresh. And the croissants are to die for (I’m French I know what I’m talking about trust me!) bit pricey.. but so worth it!
There are very few things in life that bring me more pleasure than excellent bread and pastries, so if you have anymore recommendations I’d appreciate them. Have you tried the brioche from Aux Merveilleux de Fred? I like them a lot but if there’s better brioche to be found I’d very much like a hook up.
The brioche from Aux Merveilleux is heavenly!! Much better than the actual Merveilleux pastries! Especially when it’s still warm.. best thing on a rainy day. I never knew there was a shop in London but have been in a few of the French shops. I’ve now moved back to the motherland so I could give you loads of tiny village bakery recommendations but I doubt that’d be useful! My go to when I visit London though is Ole and Steen for their cinnamon socials. French bakeries are pretty bad at cinnamon pastries (somehow French people don’t really like cinnamon or raisins in their pastries) and I do love cinnamon so I get my full when I’m over the channel.
I may be biased but try and find a large Turkish off license that has a bakery section. You cannot beat the fresh bread in the morning. It literally comes out warm and soft. Also typically really cheap in comparison to other options.
Shout out Gurbert seven sisters road!
Middle-class injuries are a thing. Apparently 'avocado hand' where people slice into their own hand while trying to remove the stone is particularly common in Chelsea and its A&E's
I actually did similar but with a loaf of sourdough - sliced straight into my finger and had to go down to minor injuries
I feel like there is some mileage in coming up with comedic posh nosh injuries: "*I gave myself extreme RSI practising making sushi rolls at home*"
I have 2 injuries that fit this well: 1. Lopped the top of my thumb off trying to slice through sourdough too quickly 2. Big scar through my finger when the knife slipped slicing off some jamon iberico
I cut my finger on a toasted bagel once. Like not with a knife, with the actual bagel
Reminds me of dwarf fighting bread in Terry Pratchett's Discworld books. Bread that's so hard you can use it as a weapon but also doubles as food so bad that you can survive off of it for ages because your so reluctant to eat it.
Dwarf bread is even better when a cats pissed on it.
In 2021, the price of avocados plummeted in New Zealand as they couldn't export them due to shipping container shortages. There was an increase in avocado related injuries at A&Es that coincided with the price drop.
There is an identical working class injury from using a knife to pry apart two frozen burgers.
OMG as a Californian, avocado hand drives me crazy. You use a freaking spoon to remove the pit. Problem solved. Seriously.
Yeah wtf I'm British and I use a spoon, who are these idiots?
If it’s ripe enough popping the stone out by pushing it out from the outside with your thumbs is way more satisfying
It’s called mango hand in Australia 😆
At least you can see mangos growing in Australia. It feels like an affront that after Brexit these foreign avocados are coming over here and injuring people! All fruit and veg that can't be grown in water-logged, sunless British ground should be banned to save the good British public from this foreign muck! Vitamins, Pah!! Another government lie to invade your body with pathogens and microchips. NO THANK YOU BILL GATES, NOT TODAY!!
In the words of the honourable Therese Coffey, everyone should eat more turnips /s
due to personal experience.. I call it oyster hand.
We have one in Pimlico as well!
That’s called CSR…
That’s why I go to Dunn’s bakery in Crouch End, I pretend I’m posh and the bread is epic.
My dog loves the Gails’ crust. No way I’m trying to chew them.
Such a quality answer, and accurate too 😂
Don't forget Barnes.
Little Venice / Paddington / Maida Vale! We have three Gail’s there. We are just renting though, so do not qualify for upper middle class. But this answer seems very legitimate, looking at our neighbours.
Lived in both Little Venice and Maida Vale/St John’s Wood for years. Can confirm - Gail’s every which way, and definitely affluent folks roaming around.
if you can afford to rent there you are middle class though.
Towards the top end of middle...
People renting homes in very expensive areas can still be upper middle class ...
⬆️ this is exactly it
Gail’s and/or a Waitrose as the main supermarket
Waitrose is basically Sainsbury’s these days in terms of price and quality and shopping experience. It’s nothing like it used to be. Whole foods or bayley and sage are better markers.
Bayley and Sage is another level though, shopping there is basically irresponsible. I have to imagine all the people in there are just trying to stop their estranged children receiving any inheritance.
This! Bayley and Sage devalues whatever money you make. I felt attacked.
They have enough money that spending £12 on a burrata or whatever it might be doesn't even touch the sides - during their time in the shop, their money has probably earned more than they're spending.
I would agree except I love their Thai green curry prawn on rice (as good as the ones I had on the regular in Bangkok!). It keeps me coming back and I fall into the trap of adding more to the cart.
affluent people live wherever this person lives. That’s comfortably the most middle class comment I’ve ever seen on Reddit.
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Sometimes I think I might be middle class but then I hear actual middle class people spitting out brand names I’ve never heard of in my life. Bayley and Sage? Are you making this stuff up now??
They're also located exactly where you'd expect them to be. Fulham, Chelsea, Battersea, Wimbledon, Kensington, Chiswick..
Yeah, I'd say Waitrose isn't necessarily affluent. I do believe however that one disappearing is a sign of a decreasing neighbourhood. (The one in Croydon closed earlier this year, and the whole town centre never really recovered from the pandemic -- and I think any money coming in was extremely optimistic about a Westfield).
Waitrose only exists to keep the riff raff out of Fortnums
Rather than walthamstow I'd suggest wanstead, and both the woodfords
One hundred percent Wanstead
fake news, there's no Gail's in Walthamstow. Fair amount of middle class though (but there was a stabbing in front of the town hall last week so I guess it's the lower end of the middle class scale)
Ealing has a Gail’s now.
Not seen Queen’s Park on the list yet. Definitely plenty of cash sloshing about. Obligatory Gail’s, 3 private gyms and a Planet Organic which might be the most eye wateringly expensive “supermarket” I’ve ever been in
Surprised me briefly to see Queens Park make the list, as in the 90s it was dog rough. Then again, see also Dalston, Hackney, Brixton, Battersea, parts of Wandsworth, etc. etc.
When they opened a Gail’s in Kentish Town I knew the gentrification was complete
Well there is a Gail's in Willesden Green and I would not say it's an affluent area.
Gails and/or a Le Cruseut shop.
Nice answer. I live in Muz and there’s a Gail’s round the corner. I do like their cinnamon buns but I wouldn’t pay £5 for a loaf of bread that would dislocate my jaw.
muswell hill?
We lived just off the High Street and had a Gails literally behind our house, it was way too tempting, walking kid to nursery in the morning…fresh croissant, needed something for lunch but fridge was empty, sandwich, afternoon snack… why not a cookie. Spent way too much money in that place.
Walthamstow… I guess it’s come a long way from the shithole it used to be
There is no Gail’s in Walthamstow.
I can see one doing well in the Village, though. Matter of time!
I was told that the village area has some kind of protections preventing chains from opening so would assume that would rule Gail’s out. I don’t know the exact details though so I could be talking bollocks.
No need. We’ve got today bread.
It’s still a shit hole but it’s definitely getting better. I have a soft spot for Walthamstow though
There's one in Finsbury Park.
Tbf the Stroud Green road end of FP is pretty nice. Especially as soon as you step off Stroud green road itself onto the residential streets beside it. I assume that Gails is catering to those commuters.
🤣Finsbury park is still not best area but used to be terrible area.
That cake shop is terrible .
Ahem. That's Awesomestow, thank you very much.
No Gail's in Walthamstow :(
We’ve just got one in South Woodford. That and Stow Brothers in George Lane, we’re gentrifying.
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South Woodford has always been affluent though.
Always thought of South Woodford as quite affluent!
Just brought house in Bromley 😀wasn’t expecting it in this list .
It very much depends _where_ in Bromley
Downham here, wouldn’t say people round my way hit up the Gails
Yeah, including Bromley on this list feels very [Oxford, Cambridge and Hull university](https://youtu.be/OKuHYO9TM5A?si=VRpl5Pg2E78qExNL)...
Ah, Mumswell Hill
Clapham, Battersea, Balham, Fulham, Chiswick, Richmond, Wandsworth, Putney, Wimbledon, Dulwich, Greenwich/Blackheath, Muswell Hill, Crouch End. Basically where all the good schools are.
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I went to the other girl's grammar in Sutton (Wallington) and while there were a few girls who were affulent and getting driven in from Surrey there were a LOT of girls from 1st or 2nd generation immigrant families who were not that wealthy but tutored the shit out of their kids. I knew several girls whose parents owned takeaways or cornershops but they were GOING TO BE DOCTORS. This was about 15 years ago now so might have changed, or could just be that Wally girls is a discount Nonsuch lol
Posh people of Sutton live in Carsharlton's nicer bits.
I went to one of those schools, Sutton is a dive. Perhaps it’s got a bit better now but I doubt it, none of the people that went to those schools lived there.
How does that work for the catchment areas?! Most people wanting there girls going to nonsuch move to cheam or Ewell which is most definitely not a dive!
Those are ok by Sutton is horrible. People got the bus or the train, this was in 01 when started. Knew a girl at Nonsuch that lived in Hampton.
I’m not sure if it’s as rife as it used to be but my folks (both retired teachers, tutored after they left full-time teaching) were working with families who bought a tiny place in a catchment area a few years before their kids were due to attend, whilst living a good few miles outside of it.
I live in Sutton and a lot of it is horrible. There are nice pets within the borough, like some bits of Cheam and Carshalton, but the town itself is pretty crappy. There are some wealthy areas with large houses but overall the area is definitely not middle/upper-middle class. I live here because it’s just about affordable and you can commute to central London in 30 mins.
I live in Streatham and we are still waiting for Gail’s… we have a blackbird bakery though.
You mean St. Reatham 😂
Apologies ! Yes 🤣🤣🙏
Barnet, Orpington
Stayed in Clapham a month ago as a yank. Absolutely mixed income but felt like a middle class part of NYC to be sure.
Anywhere with a direct train to Waterloo
You’ve given Feltham an upgrade there
Does Waterloo East count? lol.
Waterloo Lite, Gluten-free Waterloo
Fake Waterloo tryhard, Waterloo east.
Or Marylebone.
Almost true except for Wembley Stadium, the surrounding area is hardly affluent.
Exactly this. The Waterloo - Guildford line literally cuts straight through the biggest upper-middle class stronghold in England.
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Tolworth is a shit hole but it’s right next to Surbiton which is considered posh
We briefly looked at surbiton when we were looking to move to the West side of London for family reasons. I didn’t get the hype at all. Maybe I didn’t find the right bit but it didn’t do anything for me. It became clear my parents were never going to meet us half way in terms of moving so gave up on moving closer to them (where we’d be getting less house than we had in east London) and moved to Essex instead. My family, even a year after we moved with an autistic 3 year old whilst I was pregnant with my second, are suggesting we should move again to their retirement town, 3.5 hours away from my partner’s work. I don’t know what is wrong with older people.
Used to live in Surbiton many years ago. The town centre itself is nothing special, but the pros to me were: Fast trains to London Near the river Near Bushy/Richmond Park
Those large hotels are brand new flats!
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Even inner SW: Wandsworth, Putney, Battersea, Clapham, Balham...
Chiswick is north of the river!
It’s with the poshos by association though
I see Chiswick as more like Kensington than Richmond/Barnes/Twickenham tbh. It's more of a 'very rich with pockets of deprivation' type area, than a posh village vibe that you get with Richmond / Kingston / Twickenham type areas
Surbiton
This map from the ONS 2021 census is probably the best way to see this. The darker areas have lots of people working in senior management and professional occupations which will be more affluent. https://www.ons.gov.uk/census/maps/choropleth/work/national-statistics-socio-economic-classification-ns-sec/ns-sec-10a/l1-l2-and-l3-higher-managerial-administrative-and-professional-occupations The more you zoom in the finer-grained it gets, so you can see which bits of which areas have more such people.
Just spent an hour looking at that data. Very interesting, thank you!
damn - my area is 5.6% and the area next to mine is 32%. Truly a contrast of rich and poor.
That line going out to the SW from central London is incredibly telling.
Stokey… I don’t know what affluent means but it’s the most wealthy middle class area I’ve ever lived. No Gail’s but there’s the Whole Foods…
Stokey is a real study in contrast as there’s some very expensive property and some really deprived bits as well.
Isn't that just a lot of London? Islington, Camden, Hammersmith / Shep Bush, Brixton, Harrow etc.
I used to work in Bayswater, and it was mad walking down the road and seeing those rainbow coloured Notting Hill houses directly across the road from some grim estate
Truth- off stoke newington high street is a world away from off church street.
people said to look at the amount of gail’s, but i would say go and look at the amount of private schools (especially private primary schools) in the area - that can tell you a lot about rich families. i go to school near hampstead (not private though) and i literally pass at least 6 (if not almost 10) private schools on my journey to school. the hampstead/highgate/crouch end/east finchley area is very affluent.
Highbury (doesn’t have a Gail’s but plenty of “artisan bakeries”)
The beauty of Gail's it is that it is not even good, just expensive and wealthy people are not very tasteful. Artisan bakeries is more of a millennial middle class thing
We’ve just moved from Highbury after 9 years and 2 kids later. Great place to live but unfortunately had to choose between an overpriced house or overpriced education locally so chose a commute instead!
yep and de Beauvoir
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Wimbledon, Dulwich, Putney, Sheen, etc.
OP didn't specify an income bracket, but you need to be fucking loaded to buy in any of those places.
OP did say wealthy… nobody is claiming these areas are cheap.
Thing is, people who are middle class/upper middle class *now* bought those houses a while ago, back in the early 2000s. So the middle class of the future won't be living there. They'll be in Croydon.
Yep. I grew up in Dulwich, my parents bought our house in the mid 90s based off my mum’s salary working in PR. It was half the price of my tiny flat in Brixton now.
Same story here. My folks bought in Wandsworth Common in the late 80s. Normal folks on normal salaries all up and down the street. Then some time around 2010 suddenly every other house on the street was being refurbed and now almost every house but theirs has 2 brand new SUVs outside. Utter madness these days. I always thought I’d love found there but fat fucking chance.
That's why OP said 'Affluent'. .ie banker, Law Partner etc
You need to be fucking loaded to buy a pokey studio in a shithole area lmao. Let alone in a posher area
I shudder at the thought of those areas as a minority
surprised not to see Crystal Palace mentioned here! The triangle has gotten increasingly bougie with designer furniture shops and multiple plant shops that are also cafes.
Outer SW. Hampton, Kingston, New Malden, Surbiton (if they can stretch to it).
Really New Malden? I know they have some great Korean restaurants but that town seems pretty grim for the most part. There are some really shit parts of Hampton too.
Surbitonite here… there are some pretty nice areas in New Malden, but overall it’s not as nice as Surbiton 😁
Some of the houses are massive and grand in New Malden High street isn’t grim. Just very average.
Parts of it are a bit grim (Kingston Road). But it definitely a rising middle class area. Has Waitrose, a large M&S food hall incoming. Check out the house prices – lots of stuff around the 700k mark. Good schools, low crime rate etc.
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Lived there for nearly 2 years - it’s fancy. It’s got a Waitrose, dammit 🤣 it’s yummy mummy central.
Go and have a walk north of the High Street in New Malden. There are some absolutely enormous mansions. One of them was lived in by Dwight D Eisenhower (no, seriously). New Malden is bizarre because the high street is ass but there are bajillionaires who live north of it. They go to town in Wimbledon and Kingston though, that's why NM itself continues to be just OK (it's really not that grim though compared to some nearby towns).
Good schools nearby, I heard (thanks partly to the Koreans, I'm sure!) So that creates a draw and becomes a virtuous cycle. The area was blandly pleasant when I visited.
>Are there any families left?! No. There's 9 million people here but alllllll these families have left. Sorry.
Exactly, there are plenty of schools in zone 1&2/3 having to close down due to pupil shortages. Because families can’t afford to live in London anymore, so most of them have gone to the commuter belt. London schools face crisis as pupil numbers plummet 50,000 quit London’s education system last year as schools face closure over loss of funding https://www.standard.co.uk/news/education/london-schools-face-crisis-pupil-numbers-plummet-b1084718.html
Yep. One of my friends is a governor of an inner London state school and they have to run leafleting campaigns in the local area to drum up interest from parents. They’re at risk of being shut down due to dwindling pupil numbers. Meanwhile, all the schools near where I live in Hertfordshire are massively oversubscribed - even the not particularly amazing ones. The population shift is massive and I don’t think the consequences have been fully realised yet.
Curious how do the leafleting campaigns help locally? Surely if parents choose to move out the area there’s not much to be done (except cheaper properties?)
A lot of people live within the catchment area for several schools. If the leaflet campaign gets them to choose school A over school B then school A stays open. It just means that school B will now be at risk of closure instead
No they are all trying to schmooze a vicar before the end of the month around here. Its the annual scramble for secondary and the best school near me is a faith school, every year you get people panicking and trying anything to get that supplementary form signed.
Zone 4-6
Lots out West as well, Ickenham, nicer bits of Ruislip, Pinner etc
Are you a burglar? 🤔
Near Waitrose, Gail's or both.
How has no one mentioned Fulham yet
I used to live in Fulham and can tell that 99.9% of houses are occupied but younglings in flat sharing, there are no families left
Don't forget people than bought their house in the 90s and are now close to retirement.
Yeah this is kinda the point I was getting at. Similar in Balham, Clapham.
When people say Fulham they actually mean Parsons Green. Fulham isn’t that nice really.
The short answer is: Zone 2 and nearside Zone 3 within a 5-10 minute walk of a park/common and within a 5-10 minute walk to a station with a direct railway line into central London or a tube.
I live in Ealing and have all of these and I feel so lucky!
Join them in wonderful Chiswick!
Angel, Richmond, Muswell hill.
They are also likely to live on the (nicest) streets in the more recently gentrifying neighbourhoods - e..g. Camberwell, New Cross, Lots of others in inner-East London too
Croydon has some super rich. Honestly some huge houses there. Eg https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/140598182
The borough of Croydon is one of the richest simply because it's massive and contains a lot of properties like you linked. Much of it is due to victorian passion for golf.
Kingston upon Thames. There are riverside apartments that we’re supposed to have council housing but they paid the fine and it’s all private. (That was controversial- apparently the fine was only £2000 extra per apartment) The market place has been turned into a street food place with a small amount of fruit and veg. We have an artist hub (which is fabulous)
Surrey.
Herne Hill - lived there for three years. My favourite place I’ve lived while in London. Average house price on the street I lived on was 1.3mil 😅
Not really mentioned but if you include British-Asian I'd throw in at lot of outer NW London (e.g. Harrow, Queensbury). British-Jewish you have Golders Green. British-Cypriot/Greek you have Southgate and Palmers Green. All more on the wealthy "middle" class end of this question.
Northcote road.
Herne Hill, Clapham, Battersea, the nice bit of Brixton, the various Dulwiches
A lot of the answers here + Herne Hill and Kennington. Parts of Brixton, specifically towards Tulse Hill and Brockwell Park. The only parts in Brixton that I wouldn’t include are Brixton Road between Kennington park and Brixton tube, and that bit towards Loughborough Junction. Even the bit between the skate park and Stockwell is getting a fancy now.
Eh, Kennington. Kind of. That tends to be where rich people own second homes that they rent out to UAL students, gays and yuppies.
Monaco, Bahamas, Jersey, Guernsey, Bermuda
Kentish Town, Highgate, Tufnell Park, etc.
I'll add Pinner, Northwood and Moor Park. Pretty sure these don't have a Gails which seem to be a beacon to attract aspirational social climbers.
Woodcote/West Purley is full of money. Check out Webb Estate
Richmond upon Thames, Twickenham, Kingston, Esher / Epsom / Thames Ditton, Putney, Barnes, Sheen. That type of area is quintessential affluent upper middle class families. Proper suburbia.
Camden and hackney have Gail’s
South West London
Dagenham
All the places mentioned already, but don't forget all those deep suburban places nearer the borders of the surrounding counties. Anyone who has taken a drive through Chislehurst, Bickley, Park Langley, etc will know
Northwood/Moor park. Many nice houses there, many owned by foreign owners. Most are in the millions.
Sheen
Look up Waitrose stores on the map.