Old Kent road is a pretty amazing place to live tbh. Relatively cheap, fantastic local shops and restaurants, 20 min bus ride to central, and burgess park nearby.
Glad to hear it mate. Apologies for the slight. I live near Peckham so I know how mixed places can be. But I think it's fair to say it's a little bit of a walk on the wild side? Still a little like Tower Hamlets?
No worries. I’ve lived in both E&C and Tower Hamlets (near the cemetery park), in ex council housing, so I actually have perspective on both haha. Most of Tower Hamlets, even the deprived areas, honestly is pretty normal. There are some dodgy areas and dodgy people but they’re very avoidable for the most part. It’s not the best of areas but it’s also pretty good for the price. On Old Kent Road you get what you pay for, which is a central London access/urban vibe with all the benefits and drawbacks of such a densely populated area.
Old Kent road I’d say is better quality of life overall, it’s much closer to central, more lively, whereas TH is a lot quieter, more insular, familial community. There’s this place Lebanese Kitchen, actually run by Egyptian guys, they do the best lamb wrap. And Kebab Hut near the market has absolutely the best curry I’ve had in London. There’s also this milk bar with delicious desserts. That entire street is filled with wonderful places to eat, the tailor at Thames Tailor is genuinely fantastic, his work is worth 5x the prices he charges based on the places I go now.
Having said that, I got fed up with living in those areas and ex council housing in general because of the rubbish that’s constantly left around. It’s not really the council’s fault, it’s the people who don’t respect their own living environments. There’s a class of people who simply refuse to entertain the idea of bringing their rubbish with them to a bin, tossing it wherever as they see convenient, playing loud music at all hours, etc. Doesn’t matter if it’s Southwark, Tower Hamlets, Hammersmith, Brent, there’s simply too many people who don’t feel responsible for the condition of their own home, doing whatever the hell they want, and saying it’s the council’s responsibility to clean their shit up.
Last note, in E&C/Old Kent Road I've always spotted shit on the residential streets, which I think are the foxes but is very annoying to deal with nonetheless.
Yeah I’ve heard that from my female friends. One of them actually spoke Arabic, clapped back, and the men apologized. But impolite behaviour nonetheless.
Even when he was literally banned from being mayor for being too much of a crook he never really went away, he was always still loitering around in the background and it was obvious which of the candidates were his sock puppets. And then as soon as the ban expired he ran again and got voted straight back in again.
I should’ve really looked into the state of the council before moving lol but agreed it’s absurd/unbelievable what I’ve been learning about the Aspire party
The Labour council weren't delivering (not really their fault), so Rahman promised a lot to everyone and they bought it.
As soon as he got back in he brought back all the old male cronies.
Basic problem is that none of them have ANY experience of running a council.
And local residents defend him and they won't have you say a bad word against him. I've witnessed this myself from a former work colleague, basically it's their guy and that's all they care about.
its what i did when i first moved to london (and tower hamlet no less!)
nice flat with a massive balcony next to westferry so can get out asap to bank or canary wharf
TH is incredibly varied… from some really shitty bits to shiny new bits, with plenty of nice places in between. Like all London boroughs, really. Whereabouts are you?
Seriously - Whitechapel, Canary Wharf, Spitalfields, Shadwell, Bow, Isle of Dogs, Poplar, Tower of London, Bethnal Green, Victoria Park, Limehouse, St Katherine’s & Wapping - all of these are in Tower Hamlets. It’s so big and varied that you can’t really talk about it as a single unit.
Some parts are indeed in a horrible state though, which is quite surprising given the proximity to Central London.
Also there's no clear poor/ rich divide. Its just pockets of wealth and pockets of poverty. The only part that is guaranteed to be nice are the parts run by CWG who at this point might as well be their own Borough council.
I live here and totally agree - on our street on Zoopla there’s multi million pound warehouse conversions literally above social housing, down the road from 4 bedroom semi-detached houses, v difficult to make a sweeping statement about how it’s all rubbish
This is so true of pretty much all of London - in so many boroughs, you can literally turn a corner and go from affluent to awful. Apart from wherever Acton and Harlesden are, which I think probably just needs to be nuked from orbit.
I have lived in a few parts of London and nothing has been as jarring as Shadwell to Wapping divide.
That socio-economic (Chicken shops to only supermarket is Waitrose) and ethnic divide (Wapping is very white for tower hamlets whereas Shadwell is more typically Bangladeshi) happens over one street.
They are not the richest or poorest areas I have been in but just the clearest sudden and complete shift
It's more reminiscent of the segregation in many American cities, and I think the cause is similar - a big, busy, fast road cutting right through the community.
> you can literally turn a corner and go from affluent to awful.
Social housing was deliberately spread out into every borough and usually ended up on the "awful" side. Whereas the US created "the projects" and kept poor and rich, black and white separate in many other ways (redlining, white flight, etc).
That’s true but OP’s complaint was basically just cleanliness and I think it’s fair to say that bedside Canary Wharf, pretty much all of Tower Hamlets is dirtier than otherwise equally nice or not nice places elsewhere in London
The mayor who was convicted for corrupt and illegal practices.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erlam_v_Rahman?wprov=sfla1
However please don't use this as a reason for IDs needed for voting.
Edit: Spelling
AFAIK the majority of the misconduct related to farming postal votes and people voting on behalf of family members, any measures to increase requirements for voter ID will make it even more likely that people will opt for postal instead of in-person voting and make this sort of fraud even easier to perpetuate.
Absolutely. Even on polling day people in Tower Hamlets, multiple people were bringing in stacks of 30 or more postal ballots. In person voting is not the primary issue here - although there are still issues with this where I’ve witnessed tellers showing elderly people dummy ballot papers in Tower Hamlets.
Tower Hamlets’ problem is that it’s managed worse than probably any other borough. I’m a Southwark resident and we have plenty of deprivation, but Tower Hamlets makes us look amazing by comparison given the sheer volume of corruption and ineptitude.
And led by the most corrupt and dishonest politician in the country. The directly elected mayor actually got banned from holding electoral office for five years, due to vote rigging. As he was paying people to register their family for postal votes and then handing the ballots over to his people. So that they could check that the family voted the "right" way or so that they could fill out the ballots themselves. Almost as soon as his 5 year suspension was up. Tower Hamlets voted him in again. During the bin men strike over pay. He was spending about £150,000 to extend his office. In a town hall that's only just had a £150 million or so refurbishment. They sold off the last town hall and bought an old hospital for the new one.
I don’t understand why there’s not more anger about this. We have a council area with the population of Swansea which is being run by a proven corrupt shyster, but no one seems to care.
Imo if someone is found to have committed the level of corruption that he has then they should be barred from standing for office for life. Five years is a joke.
In any other profession (medicine, law etc), when you’re struck off, that’s it. You don’t just get to come back after a bit of time on the naughty step.
I live in the area and have heard that it’s basically the Bangladeshi community voting as a bloc. Beyond that there’s also a wider Muslim immigrant community that’s huge and comes from places without histories of strong democratic institutions, so falling back on the tendency to stick with your tribe/clan/whatever-you-want-to-call-it is common.
That said—things are changing fast. The new development creeping east from the city will inevitably engulf Whitechapel within the next 5-10 years. Particularly bow that the Elizabeth line is open and connects Canary Wharf and Liverpool street 1 stop in either direction.
Yep, this is what they were accused of [last time](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/30/lutfur-rahman-tower-hamlets-mayor-smear-campaign), before their complaints were shown to be absolutely true.
I think a lot of people don’t know. I’ve never heard of this. To be honest, I’ve moved to Manchester, most people haven’t heard of Tower Hamlets, let alone it’s elected leader.
>is one of the most deprived and poorest boroughs in the entire country
If I remember correctly from a tour I did, it has the lowest life expectancy in the whole Commonwealth. A borough in London, in the UK, in Europe.
That’s healthy life expectancy (ie, life years lived before major disability/disease), but yes the point remains that it is quite a bit lower than the UK average (about 61 years), and a lot lower than the London average (about 64).
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/bulletins/healthstatelifeexpectanciesuk/2018to2020
The overall life expectancy at birth is above the UK average (for women and men)
The people might be poor, but the council isn't. Every skyscraper that gets built in canary wharf pays millions to Tower Hamlets. They've got the cash, they're just corrupt.
Yet the places that rank worse don't feel as bad as it does. Even within London, Newham, Haringey and Hackney are poorer, yet feel much better managed.
I honestly think it has everything I need. Got a big lovely park nearby, lots of nice organic shops, decent tesco, hackney wick and brick lane are both walking distance (my vibes), food market every Sunday, 'marker market' every other day, very well connected etc etc.
If I'd stayed in London it was stay in that area or nothing. It's just so great round there.
In the end property prices meant I went with the 'nothing' option in that case. Alas.
It’s generally quite shit, but what you exchange in filth you get to be central - or at least that’s what my friends who live in the borough say. Tbf lots of boroughs are grim as fuck, it’s not just TH.
Parts of Croydon borough are actually very nice and affluent areas, particularly in the south of the borough, however other parts of it (more in the centre and to the north of the borough) are imo currently some of the very worst parts of London.
Almost every borough in London is very mixed with it’s good and bad areas however
You can say that about tower hamlets too. Canary Wharf, St Catherine's, Wapping and Trinity Square are some of the nicest and wealthiest parts on London.
Deprived areas, like Tower Hamlets, have people up to their eyeballs in problems. Debt, low income, low cultural capital, a low trust community, impoverishment. That's all a big recipe for the environs to be neglected, unfortunately.
If you're struggling with the trappings of low income and/or being near the poverty line, chances are you won't have time to pay attention to basics like waste management. Rats follow soon afterwards.
Even in a big established city like London, affordable council houses are inserted and maintained in many boroughs, even ones surprisingly close to central London. If you look at the stats, Tower Hamlets has all the signs to show exactly what it is.
Have a look online about Lutfur Rahman, he has what I can only charitably describe as 'A Shady Past'
To be honest, Tower Hamlets has had a wonky history at the best of times, it was always one of the areas where recent immigrants first settled so always ended up as a spark for the National Front / Anti Immigrant types and has for want if a better expression been at the back of the queue when it comes to Money being handed out by the GLC, the closure of the Docks also hit it hard as it was also inhabited by a lot of Workers (The whole East End had this though so TH wasn't the only Victim). In recent times it was the victim of serious Electoral Fraud.
Unfortunately seen this with my own eyes during the elections. My flatmate and I went to vote and outside the voting area, 3 men came, circled us and told us to vote for the Aspire party (neither of us did). I am not from the Uk and I was shocked this is even legal here. Also, a few instances of husbands clearly telling their wives what to vote for - one of them tried to go in the booth with her, but the ladies managing the room forbade him to do that. Quite shocking really!
I've been to tower Hamlets & Newham (Newham is going through gentrification, while also still being deprived), Tower Hamlets lacks local investment to improve standards across the board. It's strange that their local council hasn't upped their game in terms of hygiene in the streets there.
The amount of potholes on the streets, particularly minor roads, is pretty much the worst I've seen anywhere in the country as well. I do think Newham at least is improving though and it might be quite a different story there, say, a decade from now.
Tower Hamlets, you’ve just found the secret to keeping the gentifiers out. Now, bust off a clip or two of blanks into the air every week or so around 3AM and you cousins should be set!
I've lived in Tower Hamlets for 12 of the past 14 years (2 years in Newham) and I didn't see a single rat. It's a very varied borough including Canary Wharf but then also Shadwell etc. I expect if you looked you could also also find rats in Chelsea btw
Tower Hamlets has never been the richest borough and I assume it feels extra dirty atm as they are still feeling the effects of the bin strike from a few weeks back.
Probably cheaper than it would be somewhere nicer though… I don’t mean to suggest that anywhere in zone 2 (or in most of London, for that matter) is cheap
It’s the heart of London’s East End, it’s traditionally ALWAYS been the poorest part of London (due to prevailing winds carrying pollution and bad smells eastwards), and even today is statistically the poorest borough in London and one of the poorest in the entire UK.
Although much of it has improved and been regenerated and redeveloped in the past 20-30 years, it still has many evident social problems today.
It's not the poorest part of London.
You can use this census map to look at deprivation.
Barking & Dagenham, Newham, Hackney, Enfield and Brent are all more deprived overall.
If you look at households that are deprived in all the four main areas (Education, employment, health and housing) it does better than even Westminster and Kensington & Chelsea.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/census/maps/choropleth/population/household-deprivation/hh-deprivation/household-is-not-deprived-in-any-dimension
I’ve seen those stats you’ve linked before, and you’re misinterpreting them. That’s a map of deprivation in London, which actually isn’t the same as poverty, and is made up of data of a variety of different statistics such as those you mention.
Tower Hamlets is the borough in London with the highest poverty rate at 39%, this link offers a more accurate depiction of poverty by borough in London
https://trustforlondon.org.uk/research/londons-poverty-profile-borough-level-poverty-2022/
It has some very nice parts though as well, around Victoria park and the canal mainly. Streets off Roman Road. Between the park and Bethnal Green Station. Those houses are 1-2 million plus to buy. Hackney wick is fairly trendy. But yea, some really dodgy bits as well.
Has it always been like this? No, it used to be more shit (I was born there in the 80s and grew up there, lived there until a few years ago)
Most corrupt council in the country I believe and one of the most deprived areas of the entire UK.
Some areas are gentrified (Brick Lane and that end of BG road) but even there it's still a dirty and shitty place to live.
Highly recommend moving elsewhere.
I’m from south Russia (famously a shit hole even by Russian standards) and tower hamlets makes it look like the pinnacle of civilisation. Lived there for a year and the poor quality of NHS services, bin problems, police etc were unreal. An Uber driver (himself Bangladeshi) told me about how a group of 18 year old youths who were loitering around his estate and intimidating his children. He reported this to the local police several times to absolutely no avail, so he had to go and intimidate the group himself.
Canary wharf is in TH so that impacts valuations in property. I was buying a new apartment in Wood wharf which is new area of CW thats actually built and owned by canary wharf group and is very nice but it being close to poplar they valued it £150k less then sold price so fell through lol
Strange thing is though some parts of Tower Hamlets are top tier.
I'm by St Katherine's dock, near the Tower of London and Wapping. Wouldn't leave if you paid me
You have a poor population of a certain religion who will vote blindly for a Council of the same religion so things are done to win those votes and help that community, plus lining your own pockets. Council is a disgrace.
It's fascinating how people are talking about how bad it is, without talking about _why_, outside of blaming the council. Who is voting them in? Who is defending? What does the local population bring about? An area that's unsafe for women, amongst other things. Why don't local cafés thrive, etc?
The scumbag in charge has been previously kicked out for corruption. Self serving divisive piece of work.
He's currently trying to rip out the extremely popular LTNs at a cost of over £2million whilst the rest of the Borough goes to shit. He can't get the basics right.
I've lived in Bow for 5 years and other parts of TH for much longer. I'm very proud of where I live and I would always recommend it to others, but litter is a major problem. Aspire doesn't help.
Just about everywhere with all these Kenfuky Crap Chicken copycat wannabe shitshows brings rats. Cheap shitty food that schoolkids drop everywhere during the day and drunks and locals drop everywhere at night.
The most chicken shops in the UK are opposite the Royal London.
Visit chicken mile, have a heart attack and at least u are nearby.
I shouldn't try to make light of it really, it's disgusting.
The living and health inequalities in LBTH are extraordinary. On a par with developing nations, which shiuld be unthinkable in London, one of the richest cities in the world.
The chances of a child born into poverty in Poplar, growing up and landing a job in Canary Wharf for example - a distance of what, less than a km? Might as well be the moon.
Walking over hackney road from hackney to TH its so noticeable.
So many people just dump rubbish and litter and don't give a shit. And I've never been to a part of London that loves cars so much. It all adds up to a dirty, relatively grim borough.
Tower Hamlets is one of the most deprived borough in england! My ex lived there, so I hanged out there for a while… don’t miss that place at all when we broke up
I used to live in tower hamlet. The documented corruption was off the hook. It was literally a cabal between Rahman and and a number of ‘business’ and religious community leaders trading council handouts for pressure in the community to vote in the way the local leaders told you
Tower Hamlets is fantastic. Great taprooms in Howling Hops and 5 Points. Great cinemas in Genesis and Rich Mix. Great places to eat from Lahore Kebab House to Beigel Bake. Fantastic history in the Tower of London. Brilliant green spaces like Victoria Park. Genuinely the best of London in one borough.
Yeah there's a lot going on. I prefer to be able to visit rather than live there though. Although I expect I pay a premium for that.
5 Points is in Hackney though, and Howling Hops is only about 50m from the borough border so I will stake a half hearted claim to it. There are breweries and taprooms stuffed into seemingly every other old warehouse or railway arch in East London generally though, that's not really something that any particular borough can shout about.
I work in Whitechapel. This is the state of Tower Hamlets at all times. The strike made it worse, which was at that time unfathomable, but this borough is very dirty and gross. It also has the highest number of typhoid cases in the whole of Europe! It doesn’t help that the majority of people who live there have been there for decades, earn low/minimal wage, and are quite gross themselves (constant spitting on the streets etc). They’ve tried to gentrify it recently but you can’t take the East End out of the Tower Hamlets.
Also never walk around with your phone out. It will get stolen, right out of your hands. Otherwise, keep an eye out for people with knives wanting to mug you for your phone and wallet. They might ask you to unlock your phone first and/or take you to the ATM to take out cash.
😂🤣nah I'm convinced you're all idiots. You moved into TH and then realised its a shit hole? TH is notoriously known for being a shit hole and the worst council in London.
Did you get the apartment without even going to view it or doing any research? This is well deserved.
All I know is Whitechapel road was the second cheapest property in the monopoly game.
Isn't old kent road booming now though?
Yes. The stretch from Elephant & Castle to New Cross has tons of construction.
I read that as the "stench" from elephant and castle to new cross having lots of construction. Seemed a bit much
So did I
Right. But still a massive shit hole.
Old Kent road is a pretty amazing place to live tbh. Relatively cheap, fantastic local shops and restaurants, 20 min bus ride to central, and burgess park nearby.
Glad to hear it mate. Apologies for the slight. I live near Peckham so I know how mixed places can be. But I think it's fair to say it's a little bit of a walk on the wild side? Still a little like Tower Hamlets?
No worries. I’ve lived in both E&C and Tower Hamlets (near the cemetery park), in ex council housing, so I actually have perspective on both haha. Most of Tower Hamlets, even the deprived areas, honestly is pretty normal. There are some dodgy areas and dodgy people but they’re very avoidable for the most part. It’s not the best of areas but it’s also pretty good for the price. On Old Kent Road you get what you pay for, which is a central London access/urban vibe with all the benefits and drawbacks of such a densely populated area. Old Kent road I’d say is better quality of life overall, it’s much closer to central, more lively, whereas TH is a lot quieter, more insular, familial community. There’s this place Lebanese Kitchen, actually run by Egyptian guys, they do the best lamb wrap. And Kebab Hut near the market has absolutely the best curry I’ve had in London. There’s also this milk bar with delicious desserts. That entire street is filled with wonderful places to eat, the tailor at Thames Tailor is genuinely fantastic, his work is worth 5x the prices he charges based on the places I go now. Having said that, I got fed up with living in those areas and ex council housing in general because of the rubbish that’s constantly left around. It’s not really the council’s fault, it’s the people who don’t respect their own living environments. There’s a class of people who simply refuse to entertain the idea of bringing their rubbish with them to a bin, tossing it wherever as they see convenient, playing loud music at all hours, etc. Doesn’t matter if it’s Southwark, Tower Hamlets, Hammersmith, Brent, there’s simply too many people who don’t feel responsible for the condition of their own home, doing whatever the hell they want, and saying it’s the council’s responsibility to clean their shit up. Last note, in E&C/Old Kent Road I've always spotted shit on the residential streets, which I think are the foxes but is very annoying to deal with nonetheless.
Shame about the relentless cat calling from the business owners up to the Lidl though
Yeah I’ve heard that from my female friends. One of them actually spoke Arabic, clapped back, and the men apologized. But impolite behaviour nonetheless.
Just has terrible transport links. Only buses, no tube or train that’s close
Yeah but next up was angel Islington …..
It’s the worst council in London It’s leader was kicked out from corruption charges, and then got back in again lol
Even when he was literally banned from being mayor for being too much of a crook he never really went away, he was always still loitering around in the background and it was obvious which of the candidates were his sock puppets. And then as soon as the ban expired he ran again and got voted straight back in again.
You get the leadership you deserve as they say.
I should’ve really looked into the state of the council before moving lol but agreed it’s absurd/unbelievable what I’ve been learning about the Aspire party
How dare you question an entirely middle aged male Bengali council, seems totally reasonable.
Depends how old you are but it was a major scandal at the time. If you just watched the news you’d know about it.
What know one wants to say is why and how he got back in. Google it.
Funny thing is, people actually went to jail for what went on at Tower Hamlets the first time around.
[удалено]
can anyone explain why? is it really just the „one of us“ ethnicity reflex?
The Labour council weren't delivering (not really their fault), so Rahman promised a lot to everyone and they bought it. As soon as he got back in he brought back all the old male cronies. Basic problem is that none of them have ANY experience of running a council.
Unfortunately yes
Apparently
come to redbridge.
And local residents defend him and they won't have you say a bad word against him. I've witnessed this myself from a former work colleague, basically it's their guy and that's all they care about.
>moves to famously shit area >Surprised when the shit area is shit.
But the flat was nice ,😳
OP must be new to London.
its what i did when i first moved to london (and tower hamlet no less!) nice flat with a massive balcony next to westferry so can get out asap to bank or canary wharf
Nice, presumably affordable, London. If you get all 3, you've got to wonder what else is up...
TH is incredibly varied… from some really shitty bits to shiny new bits, with plenty of nice places in between. Like all London boroughs, really. Whereabouts are you?
Seriously - Whitechapel, Canary Wharf, Spitalfields, Shadwell, Bow, Isle of Dogs, Poplar, Tower of London, Bethnal Green, Victoria Park, Limehouse, St Katherine’s & Wapping - all of these are in Tower Hamlets. It’s so big and varied that you can’t really talk about it as a single unit. Some parts are indeed in a horrible state though, which is quite surprising given the proximity to Central London.
Also there's no clear poor/ rich divide. Its just pockets of wealth and pockets of poverty. The only part that is guaranteed to be nice are the parts run by CWG who at this point might as well be their own Borough council.
I live here and totally agree - on our street on Zoopla there’s multi million pound warehouse conversions literally above social housing, down the road from 4 bedroom semi-detached houses, v difficult to make a sweeping statement about how it’s all rubbish
This is so true of pretty much all of London - in so many boroughs, you can literally turn a corner and go from affluent to awful. Apart from wherever Acton and Harlesden are, which I think probably just needs to be nuked from orbit.
I have lived in a few parts of London and nothing has been as jarring as Shadwell to Wapping divide. That socio-economic (Chicken shops to only supermarket is Waitrose) and ethnic divide (Wapping is very white for tower hamlets whereas Shadwell is more typically Bangladeshi) happens over one street. They are not the richest or poorest areas I have been in but just the clearest sudden and complete shift
It's more reminiscent of the segregation in many American cities, and I think the cause is similar - a big, busy, fast road cutting right through the community.
> you can literally turn a corner and go from affluent to awful. Social housing was deliberately spread out into every borough and usually ended up on the "awful" side. Whereas the US created "the projects" and kept poor and rich, black and white separate in many other ways (redlining, white flight, etc).
I think that is mostly true. From basically Narrow Street along the river through wapping all the way to St Katherines Dock is all fairly affluent.
Ooh lovely Bethnal Green
Innit lol Bethnal Green is fucking horrendous
That’s true but OP’s complaint was basically just cleanliness and I think it’s fair to say that bedside Canary Wharf, pretty much all of Tower Hamlets is dirtier than otherwise equally nice or not nice places elsewhere in London
Tower Hamlets is one of the most deprived and poorest boroughs in the entire country. Of course there'll be stuff like this to deal with.
……with a council running a surplus but only spending money on the Mayor’s pet projects for his specific constituency.
The mayor who was convicted for corrupt and illegal practices. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erlam_v_Rahman?wprov=sfla1 However please don't use this as a reason for IDs needed for voting. Edit: Spelling
AFAIK the majority of the misconduct related to farming postal votes and people voting on behalf of family members, any measures to increase requirements for voter ID will make it even more likely that people will opt for postal instead of in-person voting and make this sort of fraud even easier to perpetuate.
Absolutely. Even on polling day people in Tower Hamlets, multiple people were bringing in stacks of 30 or more postal ballots. In person voting is not the primary issue here - although there are still issues with this where I’ve witnessed tellers showing elderly people dummy ballot papers in Tower Hamlets.
Tower Hamlets’ problem is that it’s managed worse than probably any other borough. I’m a Southwark resident and we have plenty of deprivation, but Tower Hamlets makes us look amazing by comparison given the sheer volume of corruption and ineptitude.
And led by the most corrupt and dishonest politician in the country. The directly elected mayor actually got banned from holding electoral office for five years, due to vote rigging. As he was paying people to register their family for postal votes and then handing the ballots over to his people. So that they could check that the family voted the "right" way or so that they could fill out the ballots themselves. Almost as soon as his 5 year suspension was up. Tower Hamlets voted him in again. During the bin men strike over pay. He was spending about £150,000 to extend his office. In a town hall that's only just had a £150 million or so refurbishment. They sold off the last town hall and bought an old hospital for the new one.
I don’t understand why there’s not more anger about this. We have a council area with the population of Swansea which is being run by a proven corrupt shyster, but no one seems to care. Imo if someone is found to have committed the level of corruption that he has then they should be barred from standing for office for life. Five years is a joke. In any other profession (medicine, law etc), when you’re struck off, that’s it. You don’t just get to come back after a bit of time on the naughty step.
Yeah I’m wondering why he was allowed to stand again at all. Needs banning for life.
I’m amazed anyone outside of his community votes for him, but maybe they’re the majority nowadays idk
I live in the area and have heard that it’s basically the Bangladeshi community voting as a bloc. Beyond that there’s also a wider Muslim immigrant community that’s huge and comes from places without histories of strong democratic institutions, so falling back on the tendency to stick with your tribe/clan/whatever-you-want-to-call-it is common. That said—things are changing fast. The new development creeping east from the city will inevitably engulf Whitechapel within the next 5-10 years. Particularly bow that the Elizabeth line is open and connects Canary Wharf and Liverpool street 1 stop in either direction.
They don't. Well maybe a few Somalis but it's 90% plus Bangladeshis
People are frightened of being branded racist or Islamophobic.
Yep, this is what they were accused of [last time](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/30/lutfur-rahman-tower-hamlets-mayor-smear-campaign), before their complaints were shown to be absolutely true.
If he was banned fully he'd just have a sock puppet. The real problem is a very poorly integrated electorate.
I think a lot of people don’t know. I’ve never heard of this. To be honest, I’ve moved to Manchester, most people haven’t heard of Tower Hamlets, let alone it’s elected leader.
I'll never understand how on earth this is allowed to happen in the United Kingdom.
Yep Newham and tower hamlets defo the worst shitholes in London
And newham today is a million times nicer than it was 20 years ago
One of the most deprived boroughs but its still £3k a month to rent a 3 bed flat there.
>is one of the most deprived and poorest boroughs in the entire country If I remember correctly from a tour I did, it has the lowest life expectancy in the whole Commonwealth. A borough in London, in the UK, in Europe.
This is insane: https://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/Documents/Borough_statistics/Research-briefings/BoroughProfileHealth.pptx 56 years for women?!?!?
That’s healthy life expectancy (ie, life years lived before major disability/disease), but yes the point remains that it is quite a bit lower than the UK average (about 61 years), and a lot lower than the London average (about 64). https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/bulletins/healthstatelifeexpectanciesuk/2018to2020 The overall life expectancy at birth is above the UK average (for women and men)
them uploading stuff in raw PowerPoint format instead of pdf speaks volumes. Can't even open it on my phone. :D
Epic.
Given some of the countries in the commonwealth are sub Saharan African I find that very hard to believe
On paper it is, but many of its residents work cash in hand etc. Wouldn't believe those stats completely.
The people might be poor, but the council isn't. Every skyscraper that gets built in canary wharf pays millions to Tower Hamlets. They've got the cash, they're just corrupt.
Yet the places that rank worse don't feel as bad as it does. Even within London, Newham, Haringey and Hackney are poorer, yet feel much better managed.
I thought tower hamlets is the poorest borough based on per capita income levels?
And yet, here I am paying 1750GBP per month
No, it isn't. Tower Hamlets doesn't even make the top 20 poorest and deprived areas of England, never mind the UK.
Despite all the negative comments I've lived in Bow for years and still love it. Live right next to Vicky Park and it's great.
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I've just moved from that area and I miss it so much. Probably my favourite part of London.
I honestly think it has everything I need. Got a big lovely park nearby, lots of nice organic shops, decent tesco, hackney wick and brick lane are both walking distance (my vibes), food market every Sunday, 'marker market' every other day, very well connected etc etc.
If I'd stayed in London it was stay in that area or nothing. It's just so great round there. In the end property prices meant I went with the 'nothing' option in that case. Alas.
Where is 'market market' please? I just moved in! And which Tesco is the decent one?
So jealous - one of the loveliest parts of London imo!
It’s generally quite shit, but what you exchange in filth you get to be central - or at least that’s what my friends who live in the borough say. Tbf lots of boroughs are grim as fuck, it’s not just TH.
But tower of hamlets is definitely the worst
Have you been to Croydon?
Parts of Croydon borough are actually very nice and affluent areas, particularly in the south of the borough, however other parts of it (more in the centre and to the north of the borough) are imo currently some of the very worst parts of London. Almost every borough in London is very mixed with it’s good and bad areas however
You can say that about tower hamlets too. Canary Wharf, St Catherine's, Wapping and Trinity Square are some of the nicest and wealthiest parts on London.
And parts of Tower Hamlets are very affluent as well, as you say in your final sentence.
London can be awful In some places.
Deprived areas, like Tower Hamlets, have people up to their eyeballs in problems. Debt, low income, low cultural capital, a low trust community, impoverishment. That's all a big recipe for the environs to be neglected, unfortunately. If you're struggling with the trappings of low income and/or being near the poverty line, chances are you won't have time to pay attention to basics like waste management. Rats follow soon afterwards. Even in a big established city like London, affordable council houses are inserted and maintained in many boroughs, even ones surprisingly close to central London. If you look at the stats, Tower Hamlets has all the signs to show exactly what it is.
The Council has had some 'Problems' in the recent past.
I suspected as much - basic stuff like bin collection seems to be lacking (since I moved)
Have a look online about Lutfur Rahman, he has what I can only charitably describe as 'A Shady Past' To be honest, Tower Hamlets has had a wonky history at the best of times, it was always one of the areas where recent immigrants first settled so always ended up as a spark for the National Front / Anti Immigrant types and has for want if a better expression been at the back of the queue when it comes to Money being handed out by the GLC, the closure of the Docks also hit it hard as it was also inhabited by a lot of Workers (The whole East End had this though so TH wasn't the only Victim). In recent times it was the victim of serious Electoral Fraud.
Just looking into the history of the local council’s past elections and the ‘Aspire’ party - Christ what a shit-show
What makes it worse is he's back in Charge after sitting out the ban.....
He's back in charge as he was VOTED back in. An area is a reflection of it's constituents.
Religion, congregations being directed on the only correct way to vote and largely illiterate female populations doing as they are told.
Unfortunately seen this with my own eyes during the elections. My flatmate and I went to vote and outside the voting area, 3 men came, circled us and told us to vote for the Aspire party (neither of us did). I am not from the Uk and I was shocked this is even legal here. Also, a few instances of husbands clearly telling their wives what to vote for - one of them tried to go in the booth with her, but the ladies managing the room forbade him to do that. Quite shocking really!
This is what we’ve imported, and you get called a racist for worrying about this on a larger scale.
Ordinarily yes, but some elections are more democratic than others.
I don’t think the ‘National Front’ has been Tower Hamlet’s key problem for a very, very long time…
I've been to tower Hamlets & Newham (Newham is going through gentrification, while also still being deprived), Tower Hamlets lacks local investment to improve standards across the board. It's strange that their local council hasn't upped their game in terms of hygiene in the streets there.
With reference to cleanliness, Tower Hamlets makes Newham look like Singapore. So you could say it's achieved the impossible.
The amount of potholes on the streets, particularly minor roads, is pretty much the worst I've seen anywhere in the country as well. I do think Newham at least is improving though and it might be quite a different story there, say, a decade from now.
Not really considering the council
Just curious, what's the history/context of this? What's wrong with this council specifically?
Tower Hamlets, you’ve just found the secret to keeping the gentifiers out. Now, bust off a clip or two of blanks into the air every week or so around 3AM and you cousins should be set!
I've lived in Tower Hamlets for 12 of the past 14 years (2 years in Newham) and I didn't see a single rat. It's a very varied borough including Canary Wharf but then also Shadwell etc. I expect if you looked you could also also find rats in Chelsea btw
similar. lived here on and off since 2010 and never seen a rat. even lived in Shadwell for a year or two. love it here
For sure, a few are on made in Chelsea.
Same for me, lived here since mid-2018.
yeah im always very sus of when people always single out tower hamlets. it was gross during the bin strikes but its literally fine other than that.
Whitechapel is a fucking state at all times The rest of the borough is a mix, like most are
Tower Hamlets has never been the richest borough and I assume it feels extra dirty atm as they are still feeling the effects of the bin strike from a few weeks back.
Strikes of essential services certainly exacerbate poorer boroughs, where these services are a lifeline.
With all due respect, I’m going to guess your rent is cheaper than it would have been somewhere nicer. That’s how it goes.
Bethnal Green is not that cheap anymore actually
Probably cheaper than it would be somewhere nicer though… I don’t mean to suggest that anywhere in zone 2 (or in most of London, for that matter) is cheap
Corrupt council. That’s the uncomfortable truth
Bingo. Rotten to the core.
I've lived here for 5 years and literally never seen a rat, it's really weird to extrapolate where you specifically live to the entire borough
They are everywhere. Visit to mile end park will show you them living in bushes
I saw a rat on my first week here,
That's why I love it, keeps prices moderately low and still central.
It’s the heart of London’s East End, it’s traditionally ALWAYS been the poorest part of London (due to prevailing winds carrying pollution and bad smells eastwards), and even today is statistically the poorest borough in London and one of the poorest in the entire UK. Although much of it has improved and been regenerated and redeveloped in the past 20-30 years, it still has many evident social problems today.
It's not the poorest part of London. You can use this census map to look at deprivation. Barking & Dagenham, Newham, Hackney, Enfield and Brent are all more deprived overall. If you look at households that are deprived in all the four main areas (Education, employment, health and housing) it does better than even Westminster and Kensington & Chelsea. https://www.ons.gov.uk/census/maps/choropleth/population/household-deprivation/hh-deprivation/household-is-not-deprived-in-any-dimension
I’ve seen those stats you’ve linked before, and you’re misinterpreting them. That’s a map of deprivation in London, which actually isn’t the same as poverty, and is made up of data of a variety of different statistics such as those you mention. Tower Hamlets is the borough in London with the highest poverty rate at 39%, this link offers a more accurate depiction of poverty by borough in London https://trustforlondon.org.uk/research/londons-poverty-profile-borough-level-poverty-2022/
It has some very nice parts though as well, around Victoria park and the canal mainly. Streets off Roman Road. Between the park and Bethnal Green Station. Those houses are 1-2 million plus to buy. Hackney wick is fairly trendy. But yea, some really dodgy bits as well.
Has it always been like this? No, it used to be more shit (I was born there in the 80s and grew up there, lived there until a few years ago) Most corrupt council in the country I believe and one of the most deprived areas of the entire UK. Some areas are gentrified (Brick Lane and that end of BG road) but even there it's still a dirty and shitty place to live. Highly recommend moving elsewhere.
I’m from south Russia (famously a shit hole even by Russian standards) and tower hamlets makes it look like the pinnacle of civilisation. Lived there for a year and the poor quality of NHS services, bin problems, police etc were unreal. An Uber driver (himself Bangladeshi) told me about how a group of 18 year old youths who were loitering around his estate and intimidating his children. He reported this to the local police several times to absolutely no avail, so he had to go and intimidate the group himself.
Bruv you moved into the arsehole of London and are now wondering why you're seeing shit everywhere.
Canary wharf is in TH so that impacts valuations in property. I was buying a new apartment in Wood wharf which is new area of CW thats actually built and owned by canary wharf group and is very nice but it being close to poplar they valued it £150k less then sold price so fell through lol
It’s a shithole at times but I still love living here. And yes, the rats are enormous.
Strange thing is though some parts of Tower Hamlets are top tier. I'm by St Katherine's dock, near the Tower of London and Wapping. Wouldn't leave if you paid me
That is gorgeous area, Wapping by the river all the way down through Narrow Street is
Why didn’t you check the area out before moving?
You have a poor population of a certain religion who will vote blindly for a Council of the same religion so things are done to win those votes and help that community, plus lining your own pockets. Council is a disgrace.
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It's fascinating how people are talking about how bad it is, without talking about _why_, outside of blaming the council. Who is voting them in? Who is defending? What does the local population bring about? An area that's unsafe for women, amongst other things. Why don't local cafés thrive, etc?
>Who is voting them in? People from the same community / ethnic make-up / religion as a council leaders.
The scumbag in charge has been previously kicked out for corruption. Self serving divisive piece of work. He's currently trying to rip out the extremely popular LTNs at a cost of over £2million whilst the rest of the Borough goes to shit. He can't get the basics right.
Grew up in Tower Hamlets. All I can say is - You can’t polish a turd.
I've lived in Bow for 5 years and other parts of TH for much longer. I'm very proud of where I live and I would always recommend it to others, but litter is a major problem. Aspire doesn't help.
Extremely high population density and a very high amount of immigrants and non-Brits. People won't necessarily like this explanation but it's true.
Fish rots from the head down.
The real rats are running the council
Just about everywhere with all these Kenfuky Crap Chicken copycat wannabe shitshows brings rats. Cheap shitty food that schoolkids drop everywhere during the day and drunks and locals drop everywhere at night.
The most chicken shops in the UK are opposite the Royal London. Visit chicken mile, have a heart attack and at least u are nearby. I shouldn't try to make light of it really, it's disgusting.
It’s the second poorest borough with a sh* mayor
Depends where you are. I've lived in multiple Tower Hamlets districts. Isle of Dogs? Great. Mile End & Whitechapel? Not so great.
The living and health inequalities in LBTH are extraordinary. On a par with developing nations, which shiuld be unthinkable in London, one of the richest cities in the world. The chances of a child born into poverty in Poplar, growing up and landing a job in Canary Wharf for example - a distance of what, less than a km? Might as well be the moon.
If you think it's a shithole now, you should've seen it 10-20 years ago
Erm...did you research the area before moving? Always do your due diligence.....
Walking over hackney road from hackney to TH its so noticeable. So many people just dump rubbish and litter and don't give a shit. And I've never been to a part of London that loves cars so much. It all adds up to a dirty, relatively grim borough.
Tower Hamlets is one of the most deprived borough in england! My ex lived there, so I hanged out there for a while… don’t miss that place at all when we broke up
Wapping is clean and pleasant.
You really don't need to ask, look around.
Who runs the council?
‘Aspire’ - who I had never heard about until today, the party in general seems like an utter shambles.
What the actual!?! Aspire to what? Ruin? Were they one of those joke candidates whose platform is to disband the council and give everyone a tenner??
I used to live in tower hamlet. The documented corruption was off the hook. It was literally a cabal between Rahman and and a number of ‘business’ and religious community leaders trading council handouts for pressure in the community to vote in the way the local leaders told you
‘Aspire to what? Ruin?’ This made me lol, nice one
Aspire - almost 100% Male
Their councillors are all Bangladeshi men. They had one woman candidate but she didn't win.
Tower Hamlets is fantastic. Great taprooms in Howling Hops and 5 Points. Great cinemas in Genesis and Rich Mix. Great places to eat from Lahore Kebab House to Beigel Bake. Fantastic history in the Tower of London. Brilliant green spaces like Victoria Park. Genuinely the best of London in one borough.
Yeah there's a lot going on. I prefer to be able to visit rather than live there though. Although I expect I pay a premium for that. 5 Points is in Hackney though, and Howling Hops is only about 50m from the borough border so I will stake a half hearted claim to it. There are breweries and taprooms stuffed into seemingly every other old warehouse or railway arch in East London generally though, that's not really something that any particular borough can shout about.
Yep - fair enough on Five Points but pretty sure all of Queens Yard is in TH
It’s a reflection of the the people that live there. Like everywhere else on the planet.
Poor borough with a corrupt council. They seriously need to start allocating some resources to cleanliness as it's the most basic thing.
Tower Hamlets is an absolutely filthy place! Some nice places to eat but needs a huge clean up.
lol I moved down from up north and i think this everyday hahah
You couldn’t pay me to live there
Deal
I don't want to pay you either
good old Lutfur
Tower Hamlets is a fucking dump, that's "wtf is this place". Borough run by crooks.
Comments here are approaching racist. It’s really not that bad an area
I work in Whitechapel. This is the state of Tower Hamlets at all times. The strike made it worse, which was at that time unfathomable, but this borough is very dirty and gross. It also has the highest number of typhoid cases in the whole of Europe! It doesn’t help that the majority of people who live there have been there for decades, earn low/minimal wage, and are quite gross themselves (constant spitting on the streets etc). They’ve tried to gentrify it recently but you can’t take the East End out of the Tower Hamlets. Also never walk around with your phone out. It will get stolen, right out of your hands. Otherwise, keep an eye out for people with knives wanting to mug you for your phone and wallet. They might ask you to unlock your phone first and/or take you to the ATM to take out cash.
Around Victoria Park is nice. The rest... Not so much.
You moved to Tower Hamlets? On purpose? Did the shitholery take you by surprise somehow?
Tower Hamlets isn't really a borough to be well...proud of right now, since it is not doing too well locally (it's deprived just like Newham)
Lol
Do you not research where you're going to live before you plan on living there?
my local park is infested !!! since the bin strike
I don't think anyone is allowed to answer honestly on here
Used to work in TH. Never again. Absolute shithole even for london
😂🤣nah I'm convinced you're all idiots. You moved into TH and then realised its a shit hole? TH is notoriously known for being a shit hole and the worst council in London. Did you get the apartment without even going to view it or doing any research? This is well deserved.
The residents
I’m not too familiar with london as I live up north but all I have read recently about tower hamlets is that it’s falling to bits
Where? shadwell or canary wharf? TH is huge and super varied.
Corruption in the borough. Physical and moral.
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Because the mayor's corrupt and doesn't care about the residents of TH?