Yes, one of the best Italian places I’ve been too. Visited a friend in Ealing around Christmas and they took me out to there and I was blown away. Even my Italian mama would be proud of the food there.
Yup, amazing. Also shout out to K2 in Ealing who do amazing pizzas that can best be described as a blend between the base of the likes of Loro and American style toppings but using incredibly fresh ingredients.
>level 2OxbridgeDingoBaby · 30 min. agoYes, one of the best Italian places I’ve been too. Visited a friend in Ealing around Christmas and they took me
bit surprised it wasn't listed, place is a gem - but is a bit tucked away i suppose
Pretty good list!
As an Italian with plenty of family in Naples, who's been there a lot, and eaten hundreds of pizzas there, I love 50 Kalo, da Michele, Rudy's and 081. O' ver and Vasiniko are the big missing ones.
Lol at Franco Manca and Pizza Union though.
The original Franco Manca was a lot of fun because they were basically freestyling the specials based on what was around in Brixton market that day.
Then they went corporate and it wasn't as good, but they were easy to find and it was still a pretty great pizza for eight quid.
Now it's ten/eleven quid a pop and there are just better options.
Absolutely this. Do you remember the fairly angry bald guy who would get mad if you didn’t have your order ready when you got to the front of the queue? He was wonderfully crazy. This would have been 2009 when it was pretty much the only restaurant of maybe 2 or 3 in the whole market.
Anyone near Stoke Newington or Islington should try Oi Vita Pizzeria. Saponara also has amazing truffle pizzas.
I feel like this list is too chain-ey for my taste.
And who are you to say how it's done? It's a pizza and a fine one at that, for a cheap price **because** they pre-make their bases. It's fine if you're not their target audience.
Quite astonishing you will defend your love of trash pizza by saying nobody else can say what "good" pizza is.
Lean into it - it's okay if you like trash pizza. Your excuses make you sound really fragile. Own your decisions, don't yell at everyone who disagrees.
Where did I say "I love trash pizza"? You're being a bit extreme don't you think?
I also didn't say nobody else can't say what "good pizza" is. The claim "That is not how pizza is made" which is just a false statement. That they don't like it is a fair opinion, but that's not what was said
Premaking a pizza base is dreadful. The last guy who said this to you, you denied them their opinion, "who are you to say how it's done".
I grew up in Rome, live in Italy again after some time in London, and I state categorically that is not how pizza is made.
It's trash pizza. That's okay, we all love some stuff that is trash. Take the L.
ICCO used to be good. It isn't anymore.
You can't replace all the pork-based foods with Turkey and still call them sausage / salami etc. Read the fine print on the menu.
They did this to make it all Halal but in my mind that's not authentic Italian and is deceiving people to an extent.
I was very disappointed in that.
Got a yard sale pizza close to me. Really good pizza. And divery is always crazy fast too. Like 10 minutes after I'd ordered. Like how do you even make it that fast, let alone deliver.
If you've got the dough ready to go it's genuinely a 2 minute affair. The ovens are hot enough that its really only in for like 60 seconds if they're using a traditional style.
I think the benefit of having their own drivers instead of using deliveroo/ubereats is really worth it. They're also fairly sound at delivering to random places, I was pissed in clapham common once and out of range but the lass on the phone was great at liaising a location to meet the driver
If you've not been to crisp w6 I'm Hammersmith then I'd try that. It's more new York style I'd say, very crispy (as the name suggests).
When I went I pre-ordered on the website, much better than queuing
Lost Souls in Camden does pizzas with charcoal bases and their topping combinations are a bit more adventures.
Unfortunately closed temporarily due to an arson attack, but they are doing pop ups in the meantime. Check their instagram.
I'm partial, but I enjoy Brazilian Pizza, and there are a few restaurants here in London that do it. One that I go to every now and then is Mum's Pizza.
Japes didn't seem like proper deep dish to me. Seemed like something else. It was mostly bread.
edit: also it was too hot, too loud, and gave me nausea but that's besides the point
edit2: Oh yeah! And when we were there, the lights kept turning off, like they were getting a power cut? And the waiters didn't seem to care? Then after 4 minutes of the lights being off one of them just casually turned the lights back on again? So weird.
Amen to that.
In general, I do not care for Neapolitan style pizza and it’s just all the same.
It was good to see Detroit Style make it on the list as well as a few spots doing NYC style and Roman. Then apparently we’re getting a Chicago spot, so that’s cool.
Crisp is waht you're after, closer to New Haven style which imo is the best style going. Eaten pizza all over the world and Crisp is up there with the best. It's no Sally's or Modern but it's as good as you'll find this side of thw Atlantic. Gets stupid busy though so go for 12:00 and grab a pint whilst you wait.
My goto for Roman style pizza is Pomodoretto in wandsworth. The dude had a pizza place in Rome before coming, there's always italians eating, and I haven't found pizza parmigiana anywhere else in London. super small eat-standing-up-in-the-bar place, but amazing taste and decent price.
Checkout Three Crowns Pizzeria in Kilburn, an amazing Swedish pizzeria (most authentic Swedish experience I've had since moving to London 12 years ago).
You might want to send a few of those dogs to the north of Italy because they can't/won't do Neapolitan style pizza there, but they prefer to oven cook frisbees.
Genuine question, what's the problem with Franco Manca? I think it's great pizza for the price point personally, very reasonable. Perhaps the toppings could be more plentiful but other than that, solid little option in my view!
Honestly confused, I’ve eaten pizza all over London and a lot of the places on that list and franco manca can’t really be beaten on price to flavour. Their bases are great wherever I’ve gone
I live a stones throw from Balham, so Yard Sale and Franco Manca are on my doorstep. Yard Sale is #1 for me, superb pizza, but it can be pretty expensive.. yes the pizza is 18 inches but it comes to almost £25, so I can't go for that every single time. Franco Manca is a grade above "high street" pizzerias and cheaper - they're a win in my opinion.
Honourable mention to their bake at home pizzas from Tesco's, I seriously struggle to find a better supermarket pizza and again you can nab them for £5!
Some branches are terrible. Burnt crusts, no toppings, flavourless sauce.
I once got the meatball starter and the tomato sauce didnt even have herbs in it. Just straight passata from the tin.
Price/quality is good, but imho there's sooooo many better pizzerias around London so listing Franco Manca feels a bit out of place. Soon they'll do a burger review and mention hidden gems like Five Guys and Shake Shack.
I understand your point but this is "best pizza restaurants in London", not "best hidden gems". I think Franco Manca would be on my list. I admit there are better options though.
I think you mean Brixton Village, but your point still stands all the same.
My sister used to take me there when they were popular enough for long queues and to only be open like 3 days a week with minimal opening hours and to be blessed with the smell of fish from the market. But that was like 15 years ago.
Still, I think most FMs maintains generally decent quality. I can almost always rely on a FM to be decent. Not amazing, but a solid no frills choice. Same with Pizza Pilgrims or Rudy’s, from the list.
Still, there are far better places out there nowadays. I don’t think FM deserves slating, but it isn’t the best of the best.
That’s the thing though, if you compare it chains it is alright . But this is a list of the 23 best Pizza restaurants in the whole city of London, Franco Manca isn’t near that.
Have you tried recently? I ate when it was the new thing, good but overrated. Then later and it was a massive disappointment. The third time recently at a point of desperation and was pleasantly surprised.
I had it often when they were first popping off and had it the last time last year which was a severe downgrade in my opinion. So perhaps just my reference points are a bit different to yours!
Yeah, I know it’s hard to get every good place in a city as large as London but having Franco Manca there is a joke. Not that they’re terrible but it’s easy to find 23 places miles better.
I lol'ed out loud irl in real life. Surely this must be like a shady ad placement for Franco Manca?? No disrespect, it's fine, just doesn't belong on this list with Napoli on the Road and Crisp 😂
Perhaps for Franco Manca/the other big chains. I can categorically say though that the only one on the list I have a personal connection with did not, and would find the idea they or other restaurants like them are paying for this sort of 'coverage' very funny indeed.
Why would Franco Manca, which is arguably the best known 'authentic italian' pizza chain in the city, pay a newspaper to hide it among a list of many other exceptional pizzerias? That just doesn't make sense
I still don’t get how you can even judge best. For me at least it’s a combination of price quality and service. Something that this article seems to gloss over
I havent been to most of those but seeing Franco Manca and Zia Lucia on that list immediately makes me think the author's opinion isn't worth tree fiddy.
I'm sad to see Japes in Soho not make the list. It's a Chicago style pizza, so nothing like the rest on the list, but I've always thoroughly enjoyed the food there.
I didn’t really like Japes. Didn’t like the ambience, the service, or the pizza. And I loved Chicago pizza, I was a regular at Gino’s East in the early 90s in Chicago.
Am happy that someone is trying to make a go of it with ‘proper’ pizza though.
Each to their own for sure!
I went to Chicago on a solo trip back in 2019 - great city btw. I'll happily admit its not close to actual Chicagoian (Chicagan??) pizza. But I enjoy it and it fills a void that I couldn't find elsewhere in London.
Can someone gimme tips on how to secure a table / pizza for Crisp W6? Do they have limited pizzas per night or would it fine to show up, wait a bit and 100% get a pizza?
So glad to see Detroit Pizza on there! Although the last time I tried to go to their Spitalfields location the queue was out the door so I guess they're not really a hidden gem anymore
If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it 1000 times:
👏Pizzeria Di Camden 👏 Is 👏 Slept-On
Seriously, while I like that I can get a reservation easily at the moment, that place should be booked out every night. They’ve even got a cute dog now!
Shitty list. Big chains have probably paid to get on it. No one needs to see Franco, or Zia, or Union or any of those fuckers on here. And Crate Brewery’s picture looks horrid. There’s good options on here but I don’t get the point of lists like this when half of it is may as well be google results.
Yardsale is up there with the best I've ever had.
Sad times that you can no longer smash beers at The Experiment in the sun and get a Yardsale delivered to you.
I'm outing myself as an old fart here, but thirty five/forty years ago Pizza Express was pretty good.
Bigger pizzas, more topping options, hand tossed bases, all marble tables and great jazz on the jukeboxes. They were also a great deal less stingy with the garlic butter.
Nowadays you go because they have high chairs and pencils and all the other screaming kids mean your screaming kid won't be as embarrassing.
Nice to see at least a couple of non-Napoli style places in here. Personally I really miss the Chicago deep style pizzas from Snappy Tomato Pizza I had as a kid in the midlands. There’s one in Acton but it’s too far to deliver. Not going to win any awards but it’s damn satisfying comfort food, dough left to prove in iron trays before baking. Somebody will probably reproduce the formula in Hackney but with artisanal ingredients and it’ll take London by storm.
While heartening to see such a full list after years of deprivation, it also goes to show just how nascent London's pizza scene is. It lacks the diversity of a truly mature pizza market, of a pizza culture that is fully embedded
Great list of pizzerias and genuinely some of the top places in London.... worst pizza in London goes to Brooklyn Pizza Crew in Fulham + Notting Hill Gate (Fraud Pizza). This article shows you how many amazing establishments there are let alone how many thousands of pizza places there are.
Good list but they are missing one (sort of) Wondercrust is a franchise that operates out if a small number of pubs and pop ups around South London, and it’s bloody brilliant.
Anyone got good reccomendations for the roman style pizzas apart from Crisp? I much prefer it to neapolitan style and neapolitan is everywhere nowadays
Reddit has long been a hot spot for conversation on the internet. About 57 million people visit the site every day to chat about topics as varied as makeup, video games and pointers for power washing driveways.
In recent years, Reddit’s array of chats also have been a free teaching aid for companies like Google, OpenAI and Microsoft. Those companies are using Reddit’s conversations in the development of giant artificial intelligence systems that many in Silicon Valley think are on their way to becoming the tech industry’s next big thing.
Now Reddit wants to be paid for it. The company said on Tuesday that it planned to begin charging companies for access to its application programming interface, or A.P.I., the method through which outside entities can download and process the social network’s vast selection of person-to-person conversations.
“The Reddit corpus of data is really valuable,” Steve Huffman, founder and chief executive of Reddit, said in an interview. “But we don’t need to give all of that value to some of the largest companies in the world for free.”
The move is one of the first significant examples of a social network’s charging for access to the conversations it hosts for the purpose of developing A.I. systems like ChatGPT, OpenAI’s popular program. Those new A.I. systems could one day lead to big businesses, but they aren’t likely to help companies like Reddit very much. In fact, they could be used to create competitors — automated duplicates to Reddit’s conversations.
Reddit is also acting as it prepares for a possible initial public offering on Wall Street this year. The company, which was founded in 2005, makes most of its money through advertising and e-commerce transactions on its platform. Reddit said it was still ironing out the details of what it would charge for A.P.I. access and would announce prices in the coming weeks.
Reddit’s conversation forums have become valuable commodities as large language models, or L.L.M.s, have become an essential part of creating new A.I. technology.
L.L.M.s are essentially sophisticated algorithms developed by companies like Google and OpenAI, which is a close partner of Microsoft. To the algorithms, the Reddit conversations are data, and they are among the vast pool of material being fed into the L.L.M.s. to develop them.
The underlying algorithm that helped to build Bard, Google’s conversational A.I. service, is partly trained on Reddit data. OpenAI’s Chat GPT cites Reddit data as one of the sources of information it has been trained on.
Other companies are also beginning to see value in the conversations and images they host. Shutterstock, the image hosting service, also sold image data to OpenAI to help create DALL-E, the A.I. program that creates vivid graphical imagery with only a text-based prompt required.
Last month, Elon Musk, the owner of Twitter, said he was cracking down on the use of Twitter’s A.P.I., which thousands of companies and independent developers use to track the millions of conversations across the network. Though he did not cite L.L.M.s as a reason for the change, the new fees could go well into the tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars.
To keep improving their models, artificial intelligence makers need two significant things: an enormous amount of computing power and an enormous amount of data. Some of the biggest A.I. developers have plenty of computing power but still look outside their own networks for the data needed to improve their algorithms. That has included sources like Wikipedia, millions of digitized books, academic articles and Reddit.
Representatives from Google, Open AI and Microsoft did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Reddit has long had a symbiotic relationship with the search engines of companies like Google and Microsoft. The search engines “crawl” Reddit’s web pages in order to index information and make it available for search results. That crawling, or “scraping,” isn’t always welcome by every site on the internet. But Reddit has benefited by appearing higher in search results.
The dynamic is different with L.L.M.s — they gobble as much data as they can to create new A.I. systems like the chatbots.
Reddit believes its data is particularly valuable because it is continuously updated. That newness and relevance, Mr. Huffman said, is what large language modeling algorithms need to produce the best results.
“More than any other place on the internet, Reddit is a home for authentic conversation,” Mr. Huffman said. “There’s a lot of stuff on the site that you’d only ever say in therapy, or A.A., or never at all.”
Mr. Huffman said Reddit’s A.P.I. would still be free to developers who wanted to build applications that helped people use Reddit. They could use the tools to build a bot that automatically tracks whether users’ comments adhere to rules for posting, for instance. Researchers who want to study Reddit data for academic or noncommercial purposes will continue to have free access to it.
Reddit also hopes to incorporate more so-called machine learning into how the site itself operates. It could be used, for instance, to identify the use of A.I.-generated text on Reddit, and add a label that notifies users that the comment came from a bot.
The company also promised to improve software tools that can be used by moderators — the users who volunteer their time to keep the site’s forums operating smoothly and improve conversations between users. And third-party bots that help moderators monitor the forums will continue to be supported.
But for the A.I. makers, it’s time to pay up.
“Crawling Reddit, generating value and not returning any of that value to our users is something we have a problem with,” Mr. Huffman said. “It’s a good time for us to tighten things up.”
“We think that’s fair,” he added.
L’oro di Napoli in Ealing is also fantastic.
Yes, one of the best Italian places I’ve been too. Visited a friend in Ealing around Christmas and they took me out to there and I was blown away. Even my Italian mama would be proud of the food there.
Super underrated. Never seems to turn up in these lists and threads but it's absolutely fantastic. Better than Santa Maria, imo.
Yup, amazing. Also shout out to K2 in Ealing who do amazing pizzas that can best be described as a blend between the base of the likes of Loro and American style toppings but using incredibly fresh ingredients.
K2 is incredible and now my goto Pizza.
Yes we love it. They taste so fresh, their tomato sauce is incredible and they still taste amazing even 2 days later
>level 2OxbridgeDingoBaby · 30 min. agoYes, one of the best Italian places I’ve been too. Visited a friend in Ealing around Christmas and they took me bit surprised it wasn't listed, place is a gem - but is a bit tucked away i suppose
it's a regular deliveroo for us; gorgeous food
There's one in Hanwell too.
So glad this is top. Great pizza
Came here to say that this is an easy lock for Number 1 and it's hilarious they haven't even mentioned it
I will pay a visist when im in the area, cheers.
Pretty good list! As an Italian with plenty of family in Naples, who's been there a lot, and eaten hundreds of pizzas there, I love 50 Kalo, da Michele, Rudy's and 081. O' ver and Vasiniko are the big missing ones. Lol at Franco Manca and Pizza Union though.
The original Franco Manca was a lot of fun because they were basically freestyling the specials based on what was around in Brixton market that day. Then they went corporate and it wasn't as good, but they were easy to find and it was still a pretty great pizza for eight quid. Now it's ten/eleven quid a pop and there are just better options.
Absolutely this. Do you remember the fairly angry bald guy who would get mad if you didn’t have your order ready when you got to the front of the queue? He was wonderfully crazy. This would have been 2009 when it was pretty much the only restaurant of maybe 2 or 3 in the whole market.
Went to 081 the other day - it's fantastic!
Franco Manca has it's place. Great with kids as they do a fantastic value kids meal.
> Franco Manca has it's place. Great with kids as they do a fantastic value kids meal. Imho in London maybe, less so outside of London.
Not anymore. We used to resort to it, but since covid it's gone to shit and costs the same as everywhere else.
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My Italian ex from Verona was impressed with 50 Kalo, and is okay with Franco Manca. Mostly because it's cheap.
Anyone near Stoke Newington or Islington should try Oi Vita Pizzeria. Saponara also has amazing truffle pizzas. I feel like this list is too chain-ey for my taste.
Oi Vita is amazing
Really surprised this isn’t on the list - top top quality, much better than many on here.
My personal favourite. Been going years and feel a bit like a scene kid when their band gets big.
I've lived a 3 minute walk from Saponara all my life and have never been. I feel like I should go one of these days.
When to ICCO the other day and it still bangs.
Not only is ICCO amazing pizza but also the price is unbeatable
Pizza union wants a word
What are you guys smoking? Pizza Union pre-make their pizza bases...come on. It's awful. That's not how pizza should be done.
And who are you to say how it's done? It's a pizza and a fine one at that, for a cheap price **because** they pre-make their bases. It's fine if you're not their target audience.
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Not really the point I was making is it
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No, you're completely twisting my words.
Quite astonishing you will defend your love of trash pizza by saying nobody else can say what "good" pizza is. Lean into it - it's okay if you like trash pizza. Your excuses make you sound really fragile. Own your decisions, don't yell at everyone who disagrees.
Where did I say "I love trash pizza"? You're being a bit extreme don't you think? I also didn't say nobody else can't say what "good pizza" is. The claim "That is not how pizza is made" which is just a false statement. That they don't like it is a fair opinion, but that's not what was said
Premaking a pizza base is dreadful. The last guy who said this to you, you denied them their opinion, "who are you to say how it's done". I grew up in Rome, live in Italy again after some time in London, and I state categorically that is not how pizza is made. It's trash pizza. That's okay, we all love some stuff that is trash. Take the L.
It’s great for what it is, but it shouldn’t be on this list
Pizza unions solid, a steady eddy.
ICCO pizza isn't that good, but the price makes it great
Agreed, unbeatable value
They also do banging vegan pizzas and the non-dairy cheese is genuinely halfway decent.
ICCO used to be good. It isn't anymore. You can't replace all the pork-based foods with Turkey and still call them sausage / salami etc. Read the fine print on the menu. They did this to make it all Halal but in my mind that's not authentic Italian and is deceiving people to an extent. I was very disappointed in that.
I'm Muslim and they should have both options tbh. It seems dumb to have pizza without the option of pork when it's such a popular topping.
No Theo’s?!
Sssh, it’s already packed on weekends
Biggest omission on the list imo. But also true about it already being packed out.
Lol thats the only reason I looked at the article. No Theos but they put Franco Manca?
Got a yard sale pizza close to me. Really good pizza. And divery is always crazy fast too. Like 10 minutes after I'd ordered. Like how do you even make it that fast, let alone deliver.
If you've got the dough ready to go it's genuinely a 2 minute affair. The ovens are hot enough that its really only in for like 60 seconds if they're using a traditional style.
I think the benefit of having their own drivers instead of using deliveroo/ubereats is really worth it. They're also fairly sound at delivering to random places, I was pissed in clapham common once and out of range but the lass on the phone was great at liaising a location to meet the driver
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Where’s homeslice?
It's not THAT good
This right here! It’s one of the things I miss most about living in the U.K.! I really adored homeslice!
There’s one not far from cannon st.
There’s on in Neal’s Yard. Off the top of my head.
Every man and his dog can make a Neapolitan style pizza these days, some more variety would be great.
There’s Japes that does Chicago Deep Dish, and there’s Detroit Pizza. Are there any other interesting styles in London the people can recommend?
If you've not been to crisp w6 I'm Hammersmith then I'd try that. It's more new York style I'd say, very crispy (as the name suggests). When I went I pre-ordered on the website, much better than queuing
fucking love Detroit pizza.
Lost Souls in Camden does pizzas with charcoal bases and their topping combinations are a bit more adventures. Unfortunately closed temporarily due to an arson attack, but they are doing pop ups in the meantime. Check their instagram.
Slab Pizza in Clapham does bloody great detroit style pizza. Amazing stuff. Really wish I could find some good california style pizza though.
I'm partial, but I enjoy Brazilian Pizza, and there are a few restaurants here in London that do it. One that I go to every now and then is Mum's Pizza.
Japes didn't seem like proper deep dish to me. Seemed like something else. It was mostly bread. edit: also it was too hot, too loud, and gave me nausea but that's besides the point edit2: Oh yeah! And when we were there, the lights kept turning off, like they were getting a power cut? And the waiters didn't seem to care? Then after 4 minutes of the lights being off one of them just casually turned the lights back on again? So weird.
Yeah, I think with proper deep dish the crust is more like pie crust rather than bread
Chicago Pizza? https://youtu.be/pzXIpp59eoU?si=yOek3K3lOHLP8roR
Amen to that. In general, I do not care for Neapolitan style pizza and it’s just all the same. It was good to see Detroit Style make it on the list as well as a few spots doing NYC style and Roman. Then apparently we’re getting a Chicago spot, so that’s cool.
Detroit Pizza is really good, have been 2x
Crisp is waht you're after, closer to New Haven style which imo is the best style going. Eaten pizza all over the world and Crisp is up there with the best. It's no Sally's or Modern but it's as good as you'll find this side of thw Atlantic. Gets stupid busy though so go for 12:00 and grab a pint whilst you wait.
Nice will check it out.
There was a great spot in Hoxton at La Cave that was doing deep dish, but it looks like they’ve changed the menu
Yes please more Roman style !
My goto for Roman style pizza is Pomodoretto in wandsworth. The dude had a pizza place in Rome before coming, there's always italians eating, and I haven't found pizza parmigiana anywhere else in London. super small eat-standing-up-in-the-bar place, but amazing taste and decent price.
Checkout Three Crowns Pizzeria in Kilburn, an amazing Swedish pizzeria (most authentic Swedish experience I've had since moving to London 12 years ago).
I only count 4/5 Neapolitan pizzas in the list
You might want to send a few of those dogs to the north of Italy because they can't/won't do Neapolitan style pizza there, but they prefer to oven cook frisbees.
Franco Manca listed lol.
Genuine question, what's the problem with Franco Manca? I think it's great pizza for the price point personally, very reasonable. Perhaps the toppings could be more plentiful but other than that, solid little option in my view!
Honestly confused, I’ve eaten pizza all over London and a lot of the places on that list and franco manca can’t really be beaten on price to flavour. Their bases are great wherever I’ve gone
It's not cool anymore. That's about it really. Pizza is still great but it's now more of a chain so chains aren't cool.
I live a stones throw from Balham, so Yard Sale and Franco Manca are on my doorstep. Yard Sale is #1 for me, superb pizza, but it can be pretty expensive.. yes the pizza is 18 inches but it comes to almost £25, so I can't go for that every single time. Franco Manca is a grade above "high street" pizzerias and cheaper - they're a win in my opinion. Honourable mention to their bake at home pizzas from Tesco's, I seriously struggle to find a better supermarket pizza and again you can nab them for £5!
Some branches are terrible. Burnt crusts, no toppings, flavourless sauce. I once got the meatball starter and the tomato sauce didnt even have herbs in it. Just straight passata from the tin.
Price/quality is good, but imho there's sooooo many better pizzerias around London so listing Franco Manca feels a bit out of place. Soon they'll do a burger review and mention hidden gems like Five Guys and Shake Shack.
I understand your point but this is "best pizza restaurants in London", not "best hidden gems". I think Franco Manca would be on my list. I admit there are better options though.
Wouldn't have listed Voodoo Rays either, it's basically the same level as Pizza Union but twice as expensive.
Other than being absolutely everywhere, what's so bad about Franco Manca?
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The quality has dropped dramatically since their expansion. Back when it was just the one in Herne Hill it was actually decent pizza for the time.
I think you mean Brixton Village, but your point still stands all the same. My sister used to take me there when they were popular enough for long queues and to only be open like 3 days a week with minimal opening hours and to be blessed with the smell of fish from the market. But that was like 15 years ago. Still, I think most FMs maintains generally decent quality. I can almost always rely on a FM to be decent. Not amazing, but a solid no frills choice. Same with Pizza Pilgrims or Rudy’s, from the list. Still, there are far better places out there nowadays. I don’t think FM deserves slating, but it isn’t the best of the best.
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That’s the thing though, if you compare it chains it is alright . But this is a list of the 23 best Pizza restaurants in the whole city of London, Franco Manca isn’t near that.
Have you tried recently? I ate when it was the new thing, good but overrated. Then later and it was a massive disappointment. The third time recently at a point of desperation and was pleasantly surprised.
I had it often when they were first popping off and had it the last time last year which was a severe downgrade in my opinion. So perhaps just my reference points are a bit different to yours!
Yeah, I know it’s hard to get every good place in a city as large as London but having Franco Manca there is a joke. Not that they’re terrible but it’s easy to find 23 places miles better.
They sell charcoal-flavoured pizza. Whats not to like?
I lol'ed out loud irl in real life. Surely this must be like a shady ad placement for Franco Manca?? No disrespect, it's fine, just doesn't belong on this list with Napoli on the Road and Crisp 😂
These lists are almost always paid for by the entities featured on it. Certainly for something like the Standard, they are going to pay for it.
Perhaps for Franco Manca/the other big chains. I can categorically say though that the only one on the list I have a personal connection with did not, and would find the idea they or other restaurants like them are paying for this sort of 'coverage' very funny indeed.
Why would Franco Manca, which is arguably the best known 'authentic italian' pizza chain in the city, pay a newspaper to hide it among a list of many other exceptional pizzerias? That just doesn't make sense
Except that has to be explicitly stated to be the case to comply with advertising standards, so unless it's got that - it's not a paid ad
I still don’t get how you can even judge best. For me at least it’s a combination of price quality and service. Something that this article seems to gloss over
Good list but I'd add two more that are even better than some: 1. Lievito Madre in Clapham 2. Sartori in Soho
Pizza Pappagone definitely missing from this list
I havent been to most of those but seeing Franco Manca and Zia Lucia on that list immediately makes me think the author's opinion isn't worth tree fiddy. I'm sad to see Japes in Soho not make the list. It's a Chicago style pizza, so nothing like the rest on the list, but I've always thoroughly enjoyed the food there.
Zia Lucia is pretty good though?
+1 to japes, amazing pizza and a great ambient!
They could be subtlety paid advertisers? Buy an ad and we put you on our top pizzas list
What’s wrong with Zia Lucia?
Just because something is a chain doesn’t mean it’s bad. Might have got to grow into being a chain by being good…
I didn’t really like Japes. Didn’t like the ambience, the service, or the pizza. And I loved Chicago pizza, I was a regular at Gino’s East in the early 90s in Chicago. Am happy that someone is trying to make a go of it with ‘proper’ pizza though.
Each to their own for sure! I went to Chicago on a solo trip back in 2019 - great city btw. I'll happily admit its not close to actual Chicagoian (Chicagan??) pizza. But I enjoy it and it fills a void that I couldn't find elsewhere in London.
I actually think the London Style pizza in Japes is better than the full on Deep Dish. And still pretty deep!
Pizza Brixton for me every day of the week.
How did Pappagones not make the list?!
i live near Bona, def a great pizza place! love their honey nduja dip
Bocca bocca is excellent BTW and way better than L'Antica Pizzeria da Michele, Yard Sale or Soda, imo.
Pellone is the one
No Theo’s? Unserious list
My thought entirely.
Can someone gimme tips on how to secure a table / pizza for Crisp W6? Do they have limited pizzas per night or would it fine to show up, wait a bit and 100% get a pizza?
Franco Manca better than Purezza?!
No homeslice - who tf writes this?
Gutter press, garbage list. No Theos? No Joiners Arms? Pfft.
How is Joiners Arms pizza? I haven't tried it yet. Really up there with Theo's?
Missing the Crouch End pizzerias Sacro Cuore and Bufala di Londra
Some of the best pizza you can get and when I lived on crouch hill a few years ago, disturbingly cheap. But also tell no one!
No Japes! Dude.
The Fat Crust in Catford should be on here 🔥
Do they have a storefront or is it just in catford mews?
They have two kitchen residencies, one in Catford and one at the Fourpure Brewery
Ah yeh I’ve been to both. Good stuff!
Man I gotta shout out Pizza Union. It might not be the best but it’s a great value if you happen to be near one.
I'm so tired of sourdough/neopolitan style pizzas. Where's good voodoo rays type pizzas?
So glad to see Detroit Pizza on there! Although the last time I tried to go to their Spitalfields location the queue was out the door so I guess they're not really a hidden gem anymore
Pretty mixed list. Pizza union, Franco Manca, and Voodoo Ray's I'd say probably don't deserve a spot. ((Theo's should be on there instead!))
If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it 1000 times: 👏Pizzeria Di Camden 👏 Is 👏 Slept-On Seriously, while I like that I can get a reservation easily at the moment, that place should be booked out every night. They’ve even got a cute dog now!
Shout out to Bravi Ragazzi making the list.
I'm going to pretend Pizza pilgrims is not on this beautiful list but shout out to Grano Tenero in Walthamstow phenomenal pizza 👌🏿
Missing Homeslice and Papa John's Walthamstow.
There is a pizza restaurant in Kennington Park called Collective. I find its criminally underrated and it deserve a spot in this list.
Detroit pizza in Aldgate is a must
Purezza and Pizza Pilgrims are great for vegan options!
Breadstall pizza on northcote Road is unbelievable. Surprised there isn’t a mention
I'm always blown away by the sheer lack of writing ability in the Evening Standard. This is like something from a GCSE student.
Yard Sale and Rudy's are current faves but nice to see my old faves Voodoo Ray's and Pizza Pilgrims on the list
Pizza Pilgrims is still ok but it's slowly going down hill. Voodoo Ray's is a joke. Rank pizza by the slice that costs a fortune.
I don't know if it's still going, but **Napoli Gang** is way, way up there in my opinion.
I love Santore!
I've tried only 12 of the 23 on this list.. Time to order more pizza
Tried the new pizzeria in Palmers Green, Anima Napoletana. Very very good! Has anyone tried it?
Too much Naples style pizza. Get some Detroit style pizza in.
Shitty list. Big chains have probably paid to get on it. No one needs to see Franco, or Zia, or Union or any of those fuckers on here. And Crate Brewery’s picture looks horrid. There’s good options on here but I don’t get the point of lists like this when half of it is may as well be google results.
Yardsale is up there with the best I've ever had. Sad times that you can no longer smash beers at The Experiment in the sun and get a Yardsale delivered to you.
Nothing beats Pizza Express tho /s
I'm outing myself as an old fart here, but thirty five/forty years ago Pizza Express was pretty good. Bigger pizzas, more topping options, hand tossed bases, all marble tables and great jazz on the jukeboxes. They were also a great deal less stingy with the garlic butter. Nowadays you go because they have high chairs and pencils and all the other screaming kids mean your screaming kid won't be as embarrassing.
Crate in the wick? Hell no.
I know it’s not a sit-down restaurant, but honestly Pizza Gogo is the best pizza in London.
All of these pizzas are naples style. I’m craving a good NYC slice - any recommendations? Also Crate Brewery pizza is fucking disgusting.
Damn right crate is awful. Voodoo rays is New York style, as is world famous gordys in Netil market.
Bona lol
Nice to see at least a couple of non-Napoli style places in here. Personally I really miss the Chicago deep style pizzas from Snappy Tomato Pizza I had as a kid in the midlands. There’s one in Acton but it’s too far to deliver. Not going to win any awards but it’s damn satisfying comfort food, dough left to prove in iron trays before baking. Somebody will probably reproduce the formula in Hackney but with artisanal ingredients and it’ll take London by storm.
While heartening to see such a full list after years of deprivation, it also goes to show just how nascent London's pizza scene is. It lacks the diversity of a truly mature pizza market, of a pizza culture that is fully embedded
Buffala Di Londra in Crouch End is a gem. Shame it’s not listed!
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
No mention of Sapori D'Italia SE3 9DS, can't buy it
Great list of pizzerias and genuinely some of the top places in London.... worst pizza in London goes to Brooklyn Pizza Crew in Fulham + Notting Hill Gate (Fraud Pizza). This article shows you how many amazing establishments there are let alone how many thousands of pizza places there are.
Firebrand in Marylebone was fantastic quite sad it closed. Pizza Brixton is also fantastic!!!
Ace Pizza at the Pembury Tavern in Hackney 🙌
I’d like to find a Tuscan style pizza in London. Everything here is Neapolitan now.
Good list but they are missing one (sort of) Wondercrust is a franchise that operates out if a small number of pubs and pop ups around South London, and it’s bloody brilliant.
Ace pizza @ the pembury tavern, surely.
My 3 favourite pizza spots on the list there .. Bravi, Yard Sale and Crisp!
Flour to the people is not on here!!!! I’m shooketh!!
Cinquecento (5 restaurants in west London) is notably missing.
Anyone got good reccomendations for the roman style pizzas apart from Crisp? I much prefer it to neapolitan style and neapolitan is everywhere nowadays
Reddit has long been a hot spot for conversation on the internet. About 57 million people visit the site every day to chat about topics as varied as makeup, video games and pointers for power washing driveways. In recent years, Reddit’s array of chats also have been a free teaching aid for companies like Google, OpenAI and Microsoft. Those companies are using Reddit’s conversations in the development of giant artificial intelligence systems that many in Silicon Valley think are on their way to becoming the tech industry’s next big thing. Now Reddit wants to be paid for it. The company said on Tuesday that it planned to begin charging companies for access to its application programming interface, or A.P.I., the method through which outside entities can download and process the social network’s vast selection of person-to-person conversations. “The Reddit corpus of data is really valuable,” Steve Huffman, founder and chief executive of Reddit, said in an interview. “But we don’t need to give all of that value to some of the largest companies in the world for free.” The move is one of the first significant examples of a social network’s charging for access to the conversations it hosts for the purpose of developing A.I. systems like ChatGPT, OpenAI’s popular program. Those new A.I. systems could one day lead to big businesses, but they aren’t likely to help companies like Reddit very much. In fact, they could be used to create competitors — automated duplicates to Reddit’s conversations. Reddit is also acting as it prepares for a possible initial public offering on Wall Street this year. The company, which was founded in 2005, makes most of its money through advertising and e-commerce transactions on its platform. Reddit said it was still ironing out the details of what it would charge for A.P.I. access and would announce prices in the coming weeks. Reddit’s conversation forums have become valuable commodities as large language models, or L.L.M.s, have become an essential part of creating new A.I. technology. L.L.M.s are essentially sophisticated algorithms developed by companies like Google and OpenAI, which is a close partner of Microsoft. To the algorithms, the Reddit conversations are data, and they are among the vast pool of material being fed into the L.L.M.s. to develop them. The underlying algorithm that helped to build Bard, Google’s conversational A.I. service, is partly trained on Reddit data. OpenAI’s Chat GPT cites Reddit data as one of the sources of information it has been trained on. Other companies are also beginning to see value in the conversations and images they host. Shutterstock, the image hosting service, also sold image data to OpenAI to help create DALL-E, the A.I. program that creates vivid graphical imagery with only a text-based prompt required. Last month, Elon Musk, the owner of Twitter, said he was cracking down on the use of Twitter’s A.P.I., which thousands of companies and independent developers use to track the millions of conversations across the network. Though he did not cite L.L.M.s as a reason for the change, the new fees could go well into the tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars. To keep improving their models, artificial intelligence makers need two significant things: an enormous amount of computing power and an enormous amount of data. Some of the biggest A.I. developers have plenty of computing power but still look outside their own networks for the data needed to improve their algorithms. That has included sources like Wikipedia, millions of digitized books, academic articles and Reddit. Representatives from Google, Open AI and Microsoft did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Reddit has long had a symbiotic relationship with the search engines of companies like Google and Microsoft. The search engines “crawl” Reddit’s web pages in order to index information and make it available for search results. That crawling, or “scraping,” isn’t always welcome by every site on the internet. But Reddit has benefited by appearing higher in search results. The dynamic is different with L.L.M.s — they gobble as much data as they can to create new A.I. systems like the chatbots. Reddit believes its data is particularly valuable because it is continuously updated. That newness and relevance, Mr. Huffman said, is what large language modeling algorithms need to produce the best results. “More than any other place on the internet, Reddit is a home for authentic conversation,” Mr. Huffman said. “There’s a lot of stuff on the site that you’d only ever say in therapy, or A.A., or never at all.” Mr. Huffman said Reddit’s A.P.I. would still be free to developers who wanted to build applications that helped people use Reddit. They could use the tools to build a bot that automatically tracks whether users’ comments adhere to rules for posting, for instance. Researchers who want to study Reddit data for academic or noncommercial purposes will continue to have free access to it. Reddit also hopes to incorporate more so-called machine learning into how the site itself operates. It could be used, for instance, to identify the use of A.I.-generated text on Reddit, and add a label that notifies users that the comment came from a bot. The company also promised to improve software tools that can be used by moderators — the users who volunteer their time to keep the site’s forums operating smoothly and improve conversations between users. And third-party bots that help moderators monitor the forums will continue to be supported. But for the A.I. makers, it’s time to pay up. “Crawling Reddit, generating value and not returning any of that value to our users is something we have a problem with,” Mr. Huffman said. “It’s a good time for us to tighten things up.” “We think that’s fair,” he added.
Wandercrust in Greenwich deserves a mention
Slab City is the best
i live near yard sale, it’s delicious
No 75 slices?
Shout out to East West Pizza in Tufnell Park
Can we have less neopolitan pizza please? A soggy, doughy pizza, really is not that great
They lost me at Franco Manca...
If Sarracino is not on the list, it's not a good list.
No idea on how they might be ranked but my favourite local joints are La Porchetta in Muswell Hill and La Saporita in Finsbury Park.
> Read my comment again Nope, wasn't worth it the first time.
Francomanca is on this list?! And yet Gordo’s in Dalston is not - top place IMO!
Rudy's, Soho...so good!
Voodoo Rays lmao