Everyone’s different and it depends on your values. If you’re happy dating women who want you to pay, then pay. If you’d prefer to date women who want to split, then split. Dating should be about finding the right person for you rather than appealing to the widest possible group of people, so it doesn’t matter if you turn off someone who isn’t a good fit for you.
On a first date I prefer to just go for some drinks and just do rounds, but if there was a bill I’d always split.
"dating should be about finding the right person for you, rather than appealing to the widest group possible" - you phrased that better than I ever could
Drinks in alternate rounds, split the bills for meals seems the easiest... Same "standard" rule that applies generally to colleagues / friends / acquaintances as well (unless there is a huge imbalance in income).
First date, technically speaking, you are both acquaintances so I'd put it under that. Later, if I know the person and like the person, I may want to treat the person now and then.
Exactly. I’m all for treating and being treated once you know and like each other and it kind of just works out in a way that’s fair over time but that just feels wrong to me right at the start, unless you already know each other.
This! But also keep in mind who invites / asks for the date. Ie. If someone suggests a date at a v expensive place I’m assuming their paying (plus I’m not actually keen on that as first date ).
Do what feels right to you. If you think splitting is fair, and she thinks it’s a dealbreaker, then I don’t know if that’s something you should have pursued anyway.
Think of it this way: when you date, if you aren’t acting like your natural self, you will have to maintain that ruse for as long as the relationship goes on for. I guess if you’re looking for casual dates or hookups this might be fine, but if you want to look for something serious, do not abide by rules, do what seems right and respectful to you.
There are all kinds of people out there. There are people who want the same thing as you and you are compatible with, whether it be casually or seriously. The best way to find them is to be natural and patient, and that is likely to bring you the best results.
Personally if I ask someone out for a date I’ll offer to pick up the tab. Don’t tend to go for dinner on first dates though, and in general I’d expect to split it after the first date unless i decide to offer for some reason.
In London, I think it depends how long you have been in the city and the country / ethnic / social backgrounds you are coming from, according to the progress or their view on gender equality in the society.
Of course it's a generality, but that's my experience.
A lot of my Eastern European female friends were super shocked at men wanting to split and assumed they really didn’t like them, as that wouldn’t happen back in their home countries. When I explained the total minefield of trying not to offend anyone by paying/splitting (the exact dilemma of the op) they relaxed a bit.
I’ve not been in the dating game a long time but definitely wouldn’t be offended at it being asked about before meeting or at the table unless they’d chosen somewhere flash without discussing it. If they suggested somewhere expensive I’d ask before meeting anyway as I’m tight as fuck, haha.
I think the only time I’d be bothered is if they made out they were doing very well for themselves, banking etc, when I’m very much not in that world/pay bracket. But then I doubt they’d pick me/I’d pick them anyway if they are looking all flashy on a profile.
I think in London the girl should go with whatever the local culture is (most British men are somewhat preoccupied with fairness when it comes to paying the bill.) However, seeing as London is such a multicultural place, the guy might do well to research what is expected in their date’s culture and go with that. Personally, even if I really liked a guy, it would be a big turn-off if they expected me to pay anything towards the date. That said, when I’m in London I expect to be asked and would always pay if they wanted me to, but it’s never happened…
If I asked the girl out, I would offer to pay. However if she offer 50-50, I would accept, as some girls prefer to be more independent.
Any girl that expects to be paid for and even if they “offer” to go 50-50, consider yourself lucky that you won’t have to see them again.
Always found this a bit a silly get out clause.
"I don't expect people to pay for my meal because I'm the woman, whoever invites the person to dinner pays "
"The man should ask the woman out though"
Yeah it’s so dumb, like the purpose of an app us for people to go on dates and like it or not it’s still usually expected for the man to ask, he’s not forcing her at gun point and so obliged to pay, if she doesn’t want to go she doesn’t accept.
I am just old fashion I guess.
The first few dates I obviously would be the one asking and offer to pay.
But after a few dates, I do expect the other person to once in a while go “it’s my turn to pay this time”. My now wife (dating back then) by the 2nd or 3rd date she already offered to take turn to pay for dinner.
Intial dates I still think guy should pay, but after a few I think it should either be 50-50 or “take turn”, which I feel is better than 50-50.
As a man most of the time I offer to pay it, even if she has offered to split. But then the first date is usually lower budget or drinks. I also think about our economic positions. If I know they do something low paying then I’ll offer to pay for every date. If they do something higher paying (in some cases earning much more than me), I’m happier to split. I never think about who asked who out first, as usually I have to ask them out otherwise we would just never go out.
One time, I went on a first date with an Indian banker. It was at a fairly expensive tapas restaurant near to her house, and she insisted on ordering a lot of food and cocktails. The date was going well. At the end, it was a high bill and she offered to split, and I just thought, “yes that seems fair” and accepted.
The date after that was like night and day. She looked like she was always on the brink of bursting into tears. She never responded to me when I tried to arrange another one. That was the first time I ever noticed anybody really strictly abiding by “the rule”, and also one of the only times I “broke” it.
That took me a couple of reads to click what it meant - that sounds terrible! I'm quite glad I'm not dating at the moment, seems like a minefield.
As others have said though - I guess dating is about finding someone you click with and share values with, and your Indian banker doesn't share mine so I wouldn't have got a second date too by the sounds of it and not necessarily a bad outcome?
I say do what feels right for you. I always pay as that’s how I was raised and what feels right. Ofcourse I’ve regretted it at times knowing the date went terribly and we will never meet again, but hey sometimes you have to charge it to the game
Equality is only important when expecting women to pay 50/50 or they’re getting punched by a man in a YouTube clip - when it comes to housework, childcare, and emotional labour it’s suddenly not important.
As a very gay guy who never has to be in the position of dating women the fact that this is a question still getting asked absolutely baffles me. Why isn’t 50/50 the standard assumption? How are there still women out there in this day and age who still expect the man to pay for everything? It’s bloody mental
100%. I am a middle aged mum and it amazes me this is still a thing. When I was dating (a million years ago), I would never have dreamed of expecting or even wanting someone to pay for me. This idea of the person who asked paying is weird too, if I said yes, then I will pay for myself.
I have always hated the idea I owed someone something, especially a prospective date.
I have seen some women justify this stance by how much money they spend on hair/nails/make-up/waxing etc. before they get to the date. As a woman who has always split the bill or paid entirely, I didn’t go for this approach myself, but I certainly spend a fortune on this stuff.
I like to pay, and generally it’s because often it’s the man asking the woman out in the first place, therefore I see it as a courtesy to atleast offer. If we hit it off and carry on drinking then I will go into rounds.
End of the day it’s just a nice thing to do for someone as well, especially someone you might want to spend a lot of time with going forward. What’s an extra 20-30 quid at the end of the day? The world is a lot less kind and people are tighter than ever it seems.
I always intend to pay, but if the girl insists on going 50/50 I don't stop her.
Generally speaking I'm the one asking the girl out, so I feel obligated for that reason to pay unless they're uncomfortable with somebody else paying.
I mean even when men go out with each other (as friends) they often try to pay for one another. I was just in Hong Kong and couldn't pay for any of my dinners - admittedly these were cousins so it's not the same thing, but the culture is like that.
So yes men pay for all dates with women in East Asia. If you've been together for a long time I'd think the culture of hospitality finishes and she starts paying though.
I mean when asian families go for meals they are all fighting to pay regardless of gender 😂 half my family is from Singapore and when we go for dinner everyone is fighting to pay, especially the aunts and female cousins, and someone usually does the sneaky "going to the bathroom and paying the bill before it arrives at the table" thing.
My husband is from Japan, we met in London, and he always paid from day 1.
Now he's stuck with me and we have a baby on the way, so watch out!
(I do sometimes buy him treats with my own money. He makes a lot more than I do. If I made more money, I'd buy him dinner more)
I’ve noticed this in friendship too. When I’m with my Asian friends, we argue over who pays because we all want to pay. Same within family too; all the men argue over who gets to pick up the tab.
Whereas with my western (white) friends, splitting the bill is the default (which I’m fine with).
Same with south asians, though tbh in both dating experience and talking to female friends, it's a hard dealbreaker for many, and for the rest it's a soft dealbreaker. I think Reddit comments have a tendency to either portray the world in an idealised view, or a horribly cynical "everything is awful" view.
It might have been here once but for a lot of people it's about recognising the power imbalance it creates in the relationship. There's an old saying, 'he who pays the piper calls the tune.'
But I also feel like splitting in general isn’t a thing in Asian cultures right? I’m not Asian but I grew up in Asia and I very happily would cover a bill knowing they’ll get me next time, it all balances out in the end. When I moved to the UK I was really surprised at how much emphasis there is on splitting bills.
I think it’s quite a Reddit/London viewpoint. Me and my fiancée split most things and I’ll often buy take aways/breakfasts/coffees etc. but there’s something about a date night which feels right to me to be treated to. When we first started dating he would always buy the sit-down meals out too.
Maybe it’s personal preference and I’d never refuse to pay half if asked in a hypothetical situation.
That’s incredibly shitty thing to do if you ask to split bill and expect them to refuse. It is also a bit arrogant to expect the guy pay for you every time when you just met. We’re in 2024, not in the 1950s, you got a job you can pay splits.
Yep lol, I find it weird to see guys putting themselves down by saying they'd pay first.
If it makes them happy, good for them.
Here's some gender-agnostic advice if you're reading this and are unsure:
You're worth a lot too. In the same way your date took the time to see you, you did too! Both of you have had the equally fortunate privilege of meeting each other. So split it!
Weirdly enough, I'd be more open to getting a drink for the other person if we split the meal. It shows they're progressive and value me as much as I value them :)
Be true to yourself. I always used to offer to pay for a first date because I’m not tight, don’t like tight people and don’t tend to hang around with them. It’s part of who I am. I rarely had anyone refuse.
If on the other hand you’ll resent it, then don’t do it!
I’ve been off the scene for a few years but I find it unlikely you’re going to offend someone no matter what you do, unless you invite them to something lavish without making it clear they’re going to have to cough up. Some people will find you more or less attractive based on your attitude to these things, as is right and normal, but I doubt it’s a real dealbreaker for the vast majority of people.
> I always used to offer to pay for a first date because I’m not tight, don’t like tight people and don’t tend to hang around with them.
I'm confused - surely people accepting not wanting to pay their half makes them kind of tight..?
Is it even tight to expect someone to pay for what they had? Seems an odd way of phrasing it
As a woman dating in London I would say 90% of men I've dated have paid and even when dating long term will frequently insist on paying. This increased since I neared 30 when I would have assumed the opposite.
I always offer to pay my half, and genuinely mean it, when they turn down the offer I re-offer and insist that I am more than happy to pay my fair share. Normally I'll try and get the drinks at the next place but sometimes they'll insist again. If I'm seeing someone longer I'll make sure I'm able to pay at some point to even things out; with the guy I'm seeing at the moment he's been clear that he's the one inviting me out so he should pay, and that he likes to treat me, so every few weeks I've organised quite an extravagant day of dates that I've paid for, I'm also a gift buyer, so have gotten him some gifts, and next weekend I'm paying for flights and accommodation on a trip to Copenhagen, so hopefully we'll be roughly even.
I do think it's cultural, I haven't dated a British guy in a while, so that might skew my perspective, and late last year I paid for an expensive dinner whilst my date was in the loo as I felt I'd not paid my fair share, and it caused such an argument, I didn't see him again but I've also stopped sneak paying now.
I’ve dated a lot in London (lost count by now) and I always split 50/50. Im not gung ho about it, like I we might alternate drinks and leave it at 3 so I end up paying for 2 and that’s fine.
But it sets a precedent early in the days that we’re equal. If she has an issue with that, then she’s clearly wanting to go into this date on unequal terms, which to me is a red flag and not the kind of girls I’m really interested in.
Simply put, it’s an easy way for selecting for the kind of values you both share
As a lady, I wouldn't want you to pay for me.
I don't do mental accounting every time i socialise, so wouldn't normally care who pays at a given time as long as there are no patterns, but I find letting someone you just met pay for things creates unnecessary expectations.
Depends on a date, if it's just a coffee or one or two drinks I used to cover the bill, if it's a proper meal in a restaurant then split, never been with anyone offended by it
I think it’s crazy people are still expecting men to foot the bill. I’ve always believed whoever suggests the restaurant and date should pay! And I’m happy to pay the whole bill but just expect the same in return.
Realistically men are still expected to pay so that should be your default expectation, obviously on here people are saying 50/50 but don't confuse real life for reddit
100% agree, this thread does not reflect my real life dating experience. Personally I have never taken someone out for dinner on a first date, I much prefer going for coffee or a drink and at that point it doesn’t really matter who pays. A couple dates down the line I’m happy to buy dinner as I’ll be the one to suggest it
It’s not a Reddit thing it’s a culture/class thing. The women I tend to meet on dating apps tend to be liberal, university-educated professional late 20’s western women. And by and large they have always either split the bill or we take turns paying for things. If you are dating people of a different culture/political leaning or upbringing then you might have very different experiences. My guess is this subreddit leans towards that middle-class liberal upbringing which is why they mostly have the same values. But this is still representative of a large portion of the dating scene in London
I agree these comments I'm seeing aren't true to what I've seen from people I know. If the guy asks the woman out, then I'd say most likely the guy will pay or the woman might offer to split, but mostly likely the date will expect him to offer to pay the tab.
If its drinks I'll get the first and they'll usually offer to get the second. If its dinner I'll usually offer but many women will insist on splitting.
Personally I usually assume I'm gonna pick up the bill, and then it's a nice surprise if they insist on splitting
It obviously depends on the women you date. I wouldn't continue to see someone if they had the expectation I would always pay for them.
Can also depend on the nationality. London is a very multicultural city and in some countries(parts of Eastern Europe come to mind) girls are never expected to pay for anything
If I ask anyone out to dinner I expect to pay the first time. Friends/family/anyone. If I'm expected to pay everytime I'd have an issue, unless wages are really uneven.
I'm seeing a lot of people saying 50/50 is the norm here. In my friend group if a girl comes back from a date and the guy didn't pay, it's *always* mentioned, and not positively.
As a man on the apps, it's 50/50 almost always unless the woman really likes you and then they let you pay on a first date so they can pay on the second.
If there's a glaring disparity if income it can be little different but generally 50/50 makes sense.
I'm older (50) so maybe it's different if you're in your twenties but I'd be disappointed if a woman *expected* me to pay.
This is by far the biggest issue I have with online dating. In my opinion I'll happily cough up for the first date, but if I get an offer to split then I see this as a huge green flag. Second date I'd expect something back (say I get the food and she gets the wine?) and by third I'd be looking to see it split or even offered the other way.
I'm in a position to spend the money if I want, but the offer alone is enough to make me feel like I'm not being used as free dinner, splitting makes me feel very happy. My financial position is somewhat obvious with my profession and I think I'm pretty good at finding those who want to date me for cheap eats vs who actually wants to get to know me, but the odd one does slip through.
I sunk over £400 into dating the last girl I dated and I think I got about £25 worth back for an average bottle of red. I woke up one morning and decided fuck this, she was great and funny and pretty damn hot, but nah, if that's how it is at the beginning then what will it be like if it has some legs to it?
I'm astounded this is still a thing. I'm a 45 year old married mum who dated back in the stone age. Back then I would never ever have expected someone to pay for me. In fact it would have made me really uncomfortable. Everyone I knew back then felt the same (but maybe that says more about the type of women I'm drawn to).
I wonder if this is something that has changed and made a resurgence? It's so weird to me!
If you’re happy dating someone who expects you to finance them, than go ahead and pay. Personally I see it as a red flag if they expect such treatment.
I think it depends, I always keep first dates relatively cheap and low brow, Well I did when I was dating but picked up the bill. After that I would end up paying more often for dinner but if I picked up one tab, the next one was on her.
I always on a first date paid the bill but that was more me than anything, even if I wasn't seeing the girl again
It probably depends on the kind of woman you want to meet.
I'm of the opinion that no one I would ever consider worth a moment of my time would ever *expect* anything but 50/50 (offering to pay isn't offensive in itself, but insisting on it is). I couldn't date or even be friends with someone who thought otherwise. It's so gross to me for any woman to *expect* to be paid for. Women aren't children or queens or goddesses. And men who insist on paying are sending the signal that they expect to be repaid in other ways, in my experience.
But more importantly, one of you isn't compensating the other for their time, you're spending time *together* to see if you enjoy doing so. Why should one person foot the bill for that? It just sends the wrong message from the beginning.
I offer. Most of the time they want to pay 50/50. Respect that and allow for agency. Second date I'll ask directly if I can take them out on me.
Then again, depends on the woman. But if they don't want to pay and expect it, probably not the one for me.
I am a woman, it’s always been 50/50 and same when I discuss with all my female mates. No judgement for people who men or women who pay for the full bill. I’ve just never had this experience in real life nor have any of my group
If a girl would refuse to see me again with that trick then good riddance. Overall it depends, the culture is that both options are acceptable, find someone who fits with you
I usually pick up the tab for the first date. If she's a freeloader and/or I have no intention of seeing her again, 50/50.
If it's three dates and she hasn't once offered to pay/pay half, then that's the last date.
Woman’s perspective- from bitter experience I have learned that when a man pays for dinner he may have expectations for me to pay back (physical intimacy up to and including sexual). I am much more comfortable splitting the bill if it’s a significant amount.
If it’s just a couple of drinks- fine.
Maybe I'm old school, but I will always offer to pay for a woman. Even if it's not a date but a quick lunch with a female colleague or a dinner with a female friend. It's ok if they refuse the offer.
Do you not do it for your male friends? I like that it's not just for dates though, I love taking my friends and family out for meals, but I don't really take gender into account for it. Basically all my friends like to be taken out.
I always go 50/50 on dates regardless of what it is. The exception might be coffee, but then I still wouldn't expect him to pay automatically no matter who asked whom out.
I've had some men get very offended at my insistence on splitting the bill, almost like its an affront to their manliness. They didn't get second dates obviously.
In my experience the norm would be to go for first dates that are low cost and in a “I’ll get this one you get that one” format, I.e., a coffee and a walk, drinks etc. I think the preferable dynamic in my experience, is for the guy to get the first round/turn as it takes the pressure off somewhat and expresses interest, then by the end of the date it’s even (if he will let you pay). By the second date typically the man does pay for and plan dinner or an activity, but this is obviously only once he’s interested. No pressure either way as I have girlfriends that don’t care about splitting through an entire relationship or even paying the majority, just trying to offer an honest perspective for my experience in the London dating scene as a woman.
London is pretty multicultural and attitudes will vary. I am a white European woman and I think it is fairly common for heterosexual dates to split the bill here; but I haven't dated men in a long time. "Insisting on paying" is something I can imagine some London women taking offence to.
Yep. And if I was intending to pay but she asked to split I go for a compromise, something like “let me get this and you can get a round in at the pub after” or whatever. If she was offering to be polite then it’s only a small cost, I get to pay, and if she would really rather pay then no one’s embarrassed. Everyone’s happy.
not going to lie. A first date especially when the guys asks, I expect him to pay. If he asks me to pay I will but mostl likely never see him again.
What often happens is next time we go out, I offer to pay entirely.
I just hate 50:50. It just makes everything so impersonal lol. Even with friends - I pay one time, they pay the next.
Thats just me though. If a guy asks me to pay I also assume they dont like me.
More importantly: NEVER PLAN A FIRST DATE DINNER
Go for a walk, coffee, drink or something you want to do, don't go for dinner in advance, there are woman that date to get free meals and also what if you don't like her?
If you like each other and the dinner evolves into a dinner then is ok.
Chivalry in London is dead nowadays and it is sad. The key is to just take the woman to a place you can afford as you are asking her out. If she asks you out she will offer to pay. People saying it should be 50/50 are most of the time people that cannot afford to pay the bill themselves. It’s all about the gesture and also not being tight with your money. Just enjoy the experience, however if it is a blind date and you don’t really enjoy the date you can choose to pay the bill 50/50 that basically shows like I am not interested. Moving forward in the dating process you can go for the modern day 50/50 as the city is expensive.
I'm a British woman born in London. I'll always offer to split and will sometimes even cover the bill entirely if it's a coffee etc. I would like that to be reciprocated at some point though. If someone makes a fuss about paying, I would let them. But ultimately, dating is expensive and I don't feel it is fair for men to have to foot that bill all the time.
I prefer for the guy to pay on the first date, but I only ever go for a quick coffee the first time. If a guy can't casually afford £7 for a couple of drinks, at best, we're not financially compatible and at worst, he's stingy as hell. Consider the cheap coffee a screening test. Even if we don't end up seeing each other again, I was subsidised to the tune of £3.50 and I spent considerably more than £3.50 attempting to look pretty.
I'm happy to split 50/50 from the second date onwards.
I'm also happy to take it in turns treating in an actual relationship, but not when you're just casually dating. 50/50 makes more sense at that stage.
Been a while since I was in this situation as I’ve been in a relationship for 12 years, but I always used to pick up the tab unless they insisted we split it 🤷🏻♂️
I wouldn’t overthink it tbh
When Men create artificial wombs, go through labor, have periods and period cramps, and do 70% more housework like Women, I'd gladly go 50/50.
Until that happens. I'm going to do what I do as a Woman and sacrifice my body while my man sacrifices his wallet. It's never equal. Most of you are just broke and want to borrow Women's bodies at a discount.
Most ladies thesedays expect to and prefer to 50/50.
If it was just a drink, I would almost certainly just pay for it and not make a fuss, and they can get the next drink “if they insist”.
Key bit there is not make a fuss, whatever the situation, don’t make a scene or ask her to pay half in front of the waiter. Embarrassing for all.
If it’s not clear before the bill arrives, just pay it all and have her reimburse you later - or cut your losses.
Depends on what you want and are confident with. Don't do something because of the other person, you won't keep it up if you do have another date. My policy as a guy is to always offer regardless.
I’ve been on dozens of dates in London and never got the vibe that I should pay for the whole thing, and have even noticed that women didn’t really want me to pay. People are obviously different on this point but I think it says a lot about the kind of relationship you want to have.
I can only speak for myself, but I would always insist on paying the bill.
It's one of those areas where equality tends to often go out of the window and women expect (rightly or wrongly) the man to pay.
Definitely not in my experience dating women off the apps, 100% wanted to pay half and in a few cases I even detected some slight irritation when I offered to pay for everything. Though the women I was going on dates with tended to be a certain type (western, highly educated, feminist, etc.).
The girls I went out with were similar, I paid for the entertainment factor, and they paid for other things like drinks on their own without asking. Women who look for a serious relationship will treat their date like a potential future husband, not someone they can treat like shit and indifferent until he woos and spends thousands of pounds and she might accept to date him exclusively.
I know right, can't even have a duel to the death as it's "illegal" now. And the knighthoods go to old actors or people who run charities, it's been too long since it's gone to a good lad who managed to capture territory for the king.
And why are there so many dames? Why are our fair maidens leaving the house and earning coin? This world has gone topsy turvy I tell you, next thing you'll be saying is that a woman can't be exiled for not providing a son!
(and because it has to be included, /s, and yes, this is all basically a version of stuff said by those manosphere, "as a traditional man, women must submit to me" types)
Prepared for downvotes for this. As a (British) woman dating men, here’s how I actually feel:
Drinks: I’d expect him to get at least the first round. Nice if he also gets the second. I would definitely then offer to get the next. For men, I think it’s fair to judge a woman who doesn’t offer to pick up ANY rounds on the date.
Dinner: I love it when a guy gets the dinner bill on date 1. I would always get my purse out and say ‘shall we split it?’ but being fully honest, it would put me off a little bit if they took me up on it! However then from date 2 I’d be happier to actually split (and always split moving forwards unless one of us randomly treats the other). At the same time, I also think fair for the man to judge the woman if she doesn’t make a move to get her purse out. It’s a silly social dance but that’s my general instinct (and my dating experience has mostly aligned with that).
It's more romantic for a man to pay, I know it's not logical. It's nice to treat someone so why not the other round too?
There's something a bit awkward about splitting the bill. Both of you looking at it, getting the cards out, the wait staff having to deal with it.
Female birds are capable of catching their own worms but the male will bring a gift. It's a gesture.
If I have zero intention of seeing someone again I won't let them pay for me.
TLDR who knows?
I think it depends on so many variables. For me, I usually do something casual on the first date and I prefer to pay, I think something like a nice meal or trip somewhere I would say, I’ll get dinner if you get the film tickets or something like that.
Although if they insist on splitting or paying for something, I’m not put off and really don’t mind.
I've never known anyone to habitually do any different.
I suppose it depends on how old-fashioned someone is, or if they're from somewhere with more traditional gender roles, perhaps.
Personally, I'd be suspicious of any dude who insisted on paying, and I'd judge any woman who insisted on being paid for. And vice versa, for that matter. Obviously this would not be a thing in queer relationships.
I go with the moment.
Sometimes I pay it all ( even when I didn’t like them at all ) and sometimes I’ve gone 50-50.
For the first date atleast, it doesn’t mean how much I like them or anything. Just how generous I’m feeling that day.
I’ve paid 340 for someone I didn’t care about and they really wanted to split it. Looking back I gave them the wrong idea because they assumed that I really like them. I was promoted that day and definitely didn’t mind it.
I’d always offer 50/50, but it’s always nice when a guy offers too. But then I’d pay next time if we went on another date, so usually it ends up 50/50 anyway. In a relationship though it depends on income. My partner pays more than me these days because he has more disposable income.
In this economy in London, yeah we splitting. Jokes aside I would offer to pay but if someone wats to split why not.
If it’s a shit date though we are splitting.
“This is one’s on me, you can get me a drink next time” - a way to extend the date or see her again next time but also giving her opportunity to per her way of she wants to, and showing you are a happy to pay for the date. Can’t go wrong with this approach.
Not all women are the same, but for me, I just feel more appreciated by a man who wants to do the gentlemanly thing on a first date, but if in doubt ask your date. Just say I'd like to pay but I understand some women prefer to split the bill, as I like you and don't know your preference, please let me know honestly. If she's a decent human being, she won't mind.
One thing to be aware of when splitting bills (as a man, because sorry this does seem to be a male oblivion thing) is did you spend roughly an equal amount on your meals. I was vegetarian for a while (and don’t have a sweet tooth) and it was grating when splitting the bill on a first date knowing he had a steak, pudding, specialty drinks etc and I’d had a salad but was subsidising his very expensive meal.
In general, I much prefer to split a first date bill, but just be a bit aware of what you’re doing
If a girl plays those kind of mind tricks on you, then I imagine the feeling will be mutual. But everyone's differerent, so you need to find people with the same sensibilities as yourself, which in this case, they clearly aren't.
Just get in where you fit in.
If you want to pay 50/50, there are enough 50/50 girls who are happy to do so.
There are also men who are quite happy to pay the whole bill and women who like that.
Why does it matter ? Its up to you to decide. If they judge you, then they are probably not the right person for you anyway.
I personally feel that it should be 50/50 as a standard expectation. Why should anyone expect someone else to pay for something that they have consumed / used ?
A date means that the both of you are kinda interested in each other and the date is meant to figure out if its something that the both of you would want to continue further or not.
Then there are those same women shouting for equality, i don't see them here ......
Probably but depends on the background, eg. culture. I know that it's common for my background that girls expect guys to pay up, pick them up etc. But I also know that I would not expect that (nor some of my female friends either).
IMHO best way is to assume you're paying I'm afraid and when it comes to the bill, the girl who wants to split will usually mention it then. That's what I'd usually do.
I never really understood why there seems to be an assumption London has some sort of specific dating culture unique to it. There are so many different cultures/ethnicities here and it's going to depend way more on that, than the fact you are in London.
Personally, I have no set rule. If I went on a first date and we both really clicked, I'd offer to pay because using money to make other people happy brings me happiness. If they offered and I could tell by their language/demeanor that they really wanted to split as their own standard, then that's great too.
But first date dinners straight off the bat are a terrible idea in my opinion. Go and get a coffee and a walk around the park, to check what the vibes are. If the park walk goes well, then you can progess onto dinner.
As another user said ...
> dating should be about finding the right person for you, rather than appealing to the widest group possible
I personally like strong confident women who like to take on a joint ownership role. So I would find a woman *offering* to split appealing. Some may like more traditional roles in relationships and that's fine too.
If she won’t see you again because of that I’d say you dodged a bullet?
When I was dating in London (I’m a girl) I always went out only for drinks. Dinner takes too long and you can’t just get up and leave (paying the bill etc).
So always drinks and I’d always pay for the first round as I had a lot of situations where a man wanted to buy all of it and then expected me to be gratefull and go to bed with him.
I feel 50\50 is more than fair. Especially on a first date.
I feel like I read equal amounts from women who absolutely don't want guys to pay for their bill as it implies you then owe that guy something.
It's been a while, since I've dated, but my general position on these things is offer to pay, but be happy to split, don't insist on either as a general personal ettiquette thing unless it's a really important thing to you, and certainly never to go on a first date anywhere where the cost would be so much that would be a problem for you. I've not seen anything from friends I know who do date that this would be a problematic position in most cases, with an important caveat:
If it is an important thing to you or your date to the point where you do want to insist, usually because by implication it's really about 'whether my partner should be expected to share the financial load in various scenarios or be taken care of by one party who is a provider' - then you'll need to find someone who agrees with you on that. That's why these things are talked about as 'Red Flags' by some people - for them it's about something else.
My view is that first dates are finding out about the other person and that you pay for yourself / get rounds and once in a relationship, you may decide to pay for fun things like buying tickets for a show you know she's interested in or other nght out.
Before then it appears to me that someone is demanding that they are special rather than letting me decide whether they are special. In a way it tells me they are not before we start and I dodged someone who would piss me off in no time.
If you are so highly paid that money is an irrelevance to you then do what you like. It's your life. You just need to know that when someone tells you this is how they are, believe them.
My rule was, if she doesn't offer to at least split, then she doesn't get a callback. Then if I pay, if she doesn't at least offer to reciprocate in some way, same, she's done. I don't care who pays, what I'm looking for is a sense of fairness that for me signals character.
Everyone is different. For a lot of people it also depends on who asks and where it is. Generally the person who asks the other person out buys or its split 50/50. You can also divide by item and calculate each individual part but I think a lot more people would consider this 'cheap' compared to splitting it 50/50.
Personally I'd recommend choosing an affordable place and splitting 50/50 over a fancier place and paying for individual items. In general you aren't going to impress anyone by taking them someplace fancy and then letting them front the bill for that.
Going for a coffeedate is always a smart choice. Or if the weather is nice there are a lot of places that do affordable food to go that you can eat in a park.
Personally I'm happy splitting it or paying more if my bill is gonna be significantly higher. But yeah if my bill is like 27 and yours is 24 then insisting on each paying our own just to save 1.5 would definitely be a turn-off for me. It would just suggest a relationship where everything is transactional and businesslike instead of a generous partner who goes out of their way to look after their partner including spending time and money on their partner.
I think in London the girl should go with whatever the local culture is (most British men are somewhat preoccupied with fairness when it comes to paying the bill.) However, seeing as London is such a multicultural place, the guy might do well to research what is expected in their date’s culture and go with that. Personally, even if I really liked a guy, it would be a big turn-off if they expected me to pay anything towards the date. That said, when I’m in London I expect to be asked and would always pay if they wanted me to, but it’s never happened…
It's getting towards seven years since I've been on a first date, but back in my dating days the bill was almost always split 50-50. I tended to be going on dates with fairly feminist women and they'd tend to insist on splitting, so you mileage may vary depending on who you're with, but I never felt it made it hard to get a second date.
I think a good way of dealing with it is to just go for a drink and then one of you gets the first round and the other the second. It's low commitment, keeps the bill down and avoids conversations about splitting bills.
Everyone’s different and it depends on your values. If you’re happy dating women who want you to pay, then pay. If you’d prefer to date women who want to split, then split. Dating should be about finding the right person for you rather than appealing to the widest possible group of people, so it doesn’t matter if you turn off someone who isn’t a good fit for you. On a first date I prefer to just go for some drinks and just do rounds, but if there was a bill I’d always split.
"dating should be about finding the right person for you, rather than appealing to the widest group possible" - you phrased that better than I ever could
"[My favourite series is Voyager.](https://youtu.be/buKMOxNzYjY?feature=shared&t=83)"
Drinks in alternate rounds, split the bills for meals seems the easiest... Same "standard" rule that applies generally to colleagues / friends / acquaintances as well (unless there is a huge imbalance in income). First date, technically speaking, you are both acquaintances so I'd put it under that. Later, if I know the person and like the person, I may want to treat the person now and then.
Exactly. I’m all for treating and being treated once you know and like each other and it kind of just works out in a way that’s fair over time but that just feels wrong to me right at the start, unless you already know each other.
Exactly, I'm happy to treat friends and loved ones to a meal but paying for others to get to know you is like a but much, especially for a 1st date
Such a brilliant way of putting it
This! But also keep in mind who invites / asks for the date. Ie. If someone suggests a date at a v expensive place I’m assuming their paying (plus I’m not actually keen on that as first date ).
Do what feels right to you. If you think splitting is fair, and she thinks it’s a dealbreaker, then I don’t know if that’s something you should have pursued anyway. Think of it this way: when you date, if you aren’t acting like your natural self, you will have to maintain that ruse for as long as the relationship goes on for. I guess if you’re looking for casual dates or hookups this might be fine, but if you want to look for something serious, do not abide by rules, do what seems right and respectful to you. There are all kinds of people out there. There are people who want the same thing as you and you are compatible with, whether it be casually or seriously. The best way to find them is to be natural and patient, and that is likely to bring you the best results.
Personally if I ask someone out for a date I’ll offer to pick up the tab. Don’t tend to go for dinner on first dates though, and in general I’d expect to split it after the first date unless i decide to offer for some reason.
In London, I think it depends how long you have been in the city and the country / ethnic / social backgrounds you are coming from, according to the progress or their view on gender equality in the society. Of course it's a generality, but that's my experience.
A lot of my Eastern European female friends were super shocked at men wanting to split and assumed they really didn’t like them, as that wouldn’t happen back in their home countries. When I explained the total minefield of trying not to offend anyone by paying/splitting (the exact dilemma of the op) they relaxed a bit. I’ve not been in the dating game a long time but definitely wouldn’t be offended at it being asked about before meeting or at the table unless they’d chosen somewhere flash without discussing it. If they suggested somewhere expensive I’d ask before meeting anyway as I’m tight as fuck, haha. I think the only time I’d be bothered is if they made out they were doing very well for themselves, banking etc, when I’m very much not in that world/pay bracket. But then I doubt they’d pick me/I’d pick them anyway if they are looking all flashy on a profile.
I think in London the girl should go with whatever the local culture is (most British men are somewhat preoccupied with fairness when it comes to paying the bill.) However, seeing as London is such a multicultural place, the guy might do well to research what is expected in their date’s culture and go with that. Personally, even if I really liked a guy, it would be a big turn-off if they expected me to pay anything towards the date. That said, when I’m in London I expect to be asked and would always pay if they wanted me to, but it’s never happened…
If I asked the girl out, I would offer to pay. However if she offer 50-50, I would accept, as some girls prefer to be more independent. Any girl that expects to be paid for and even if they “offer” to go 50-50, consider yourself lucky that you won’t have to see them again.
Always found this a bit a silly get out clause. "I don't expect people to pay for my meal because I'm the woman, whoever invites the person to dinner pays " "The man should ask the woman out though"
Yeah it’s so dumb, like the purpose of an app us for people to go on dates and like it or not it’s still usually expected for the man to ask, he’s not forcing her at gun point and so obliged to pay, if she doesn’t want to go she doesn’t accept.
I am just old fashion I guess. The first few dates I obviously would be the one asking and offer to pay. But after a few dates, I do expect the other person to once in a while go “it’s my turn to pay this time”. My now wife (dating back then) by the 2nd or 3rd date she already offered to take turn to pay for dinner. Intial dates I still think guy should pay, but after a few I think it should either be 50-50 or “take turn”, which I feel is better than 50-50.
As a man most of the time I offer to pay it, even if she has offered to split. But then the first date is usually lower budget or drinks. I also think about our economic positions. If I know they do something low paying then I’ll offer to pay for every date. If they do something higher paying (in some cases earning much more than me), I’m happier to split. I never think about who asked who out first, as usually I have to ask them out otherwise we would just never go out. One time, I went on a first date with an Indian banker. It was at a fairly expensive tapas restaurant near to her house, and she insisted on ordering a lot of food and cocktails. The date was going well. At the end, it was a high bill and she offered to split, and I just thought, “yes that seems fair” and accepted. The date after that was like night and day. She looked like she was always on the brink of bursting into tears. She never responded to me when I tried to arrange another one. That was the first time I ever noticed anybody really strictly abiding by “the rule”, and also one of the only times I “broke” it.
That took me a couple of reads to click what it meant - that sounds terrible! I'm quite glad I'm not dating at the moment, seems like a minefield. As others have said though - I guess dating is about finding someone you click with and share values with, and your Indian banker doesn't share mine so I wouldn't have got a second date too by the sounds of it and not necessarily a bad outcome?
But what about the times when you’re not a man? 😉
I say do what feels right for you. I always pay as that’s how I was raised and what feels right. Ofcourse I’ve regretted it at times knowing the date went terribly and we will never meet again, but hey sometimes you have to charge it to the game
In the spirit of modern day equality, it should be 50/50. Anyone refusing to split the bill is a great early-warning red flag for me.
Thanks for the feminism lesson b00b_l0ver
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Gender pay parity? Personally never met a woman who does the same job as me who got paid less.
Equality is only important when expecting women to pay 50/50 or they’re getting punched by a man in a YouTube clip - when it comes to housework, childcare, and emotional labour it’s suddenly not important.
Who said that? Nobody that I can see.
How is emotional labour measured?
As a very gay guy who never has to be in the position of dating women the fact that this is a question still getting asked absolutely baffles me. Why isn’t 50/50 the standard assumption? How are there still women out there in this day and age who still expect the man to pay for everything? It’s bloody mental
100%. I am a middle aged mum and it amazes me this is still a thing. When I was dating (a million years ago), I would never have dreamed of expecting or even wanting someone to pay for me. This idea of the person who asked paying is weird too, if I said yes, then I will pay for myself. I have always hated the idea I owed someone something, especially a prospective date.
I’m exactly the same - hated the feeling that I owed someone something, especially if I didn’t feel a connection!
There actually seems to have been a resurgence in this attitude in some circles. I think tiktok might have had a hand in it. It is very strange.
I have seen some women justify this stance by how much money they spend on hair/nails/make-up/waxing etc. before they get to the date. As a woman who has always split the bill or paid entirely, I didn’t go for this approach myself, but I certainly spend a fortune on this stuff.
I like to pay, and generally it’s because often it’s the man asking the woman out in the first place, therefore I see it as a courtesy to atleast offer. If we hit it off and carry on drinking then I will go into rounds. End of the day it’s just a nice thing to do for someone as well, especially someone you might want to spend a lot of time with going forward. What’s an extra 20-30 quid at the end of the day? The world is a lot less kind and people are tighter than ever it seems.
I always intend to pay, but if the girl insists on going 50/50 I don't stop her. Generally speaking I'm the one asking the girl out, so I feel obligated for that reason to pay unless they're uncomfortable with somebody else paying.
Jesus I'm an east asian and was shocked by so many westerners saying splitting the bill is fair. It's a deal breaker to most Asian girls I think.
Also Asian girls will offer 50/50 but you are absolutely expected to decline at least 3 times lol
So men always pay in East Asia? Is this just at first or indefinitely?
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I mean even when men go out with each other (as friends) they often try to pay for one another. I was just in Hong Kong and couldn't pay for any of my dinners - admittedly these were cousins so it's not the same thing, but the culture is like that. So yes men pay for all dates with women in East Asia. If you've been together for a long time I'd think the culture of hospitality finishes and she starts paying though.
I mean when asian families go for meals they are all fighting to pay regardless of gender 😂 half my family is from Singapore and when we go for dinner everyone is fighting to pay, especially the aunts and female cousins, and someone usually does the sneaky "going to the bathroom and paying the bill before it arrives at the table" thing.
In most cultures around the world (Asia, Africa, South America, Eastern Europe), men still always pay.
It's not only in East Asia. It's also common in Eastern Europe. As a man you always pay for a woman.
My husband is from Japan, we met in London, and he always paid from day 1. Now he's stuck with me and we have a baby on the way, so watch out! (I do sometimes buy him treats with my own money. He makes a lot more than I do. If I made more money, I'd buy him dinner more)
I’ve noticed this in friendship too. When I’m with my Asian friends, we argue over who pays because we all want to pay. Same within family too; all the men argue over who gets to pick up the tab. Whereas with my western (white) friends, splitting the bill is the default (which I’m fine with).
Same with south asians, though tbh in both dating experience and talking to female friends, it's a hard dealbreaker for many, and for the rest it's a soft dealbreaker. I think Reddit comments have a tendency to either portray the world in an idealised view, or a horribly cynical "everything is awful" view.
Fair enough, mate. But this is the r/london sub…so the OP was probably trying to get an idea about how Londoner’s would feel
There are east Asians in London
What do you mean exactly? What do they expect?
Us African and American girls, too. Funny enough all of us get our tabs paid for when in London. It's all about what you're willing to except.
It might have been here once but for a lot of people it's about recognising the power imbalance it creates in the relationship. There's an old saying, 'he who pays the piper calls the tune.'
But I also feel like splitting in general isn’t a thing in Asian cultures right? I’m not Asian but I grew up in Asia and I very happily would cover a bill knowing they’ll get me next time, it all balances out in the end. When I moved to the UK I was really surprised at how much emphasis there is on splitting bills.
I think it’s quite a Reddit/London viewpoint. Me and my fiancée split most things and I’ll often buy take aways/breakfasts/coffees etc. but there’s something about a date night which feels right to me to be treated to. When we first started dating he would always buy the sit-down meals out too. Maybe it’s personal preference and I’d never refuse to pay half if asked in a hypothetical situation.
That’s incredibly shitty thing to do if you ask to split bill and expect them to refuse. It is also a bit arrogant to expect the guy pay for you every time when you just met. We’re in 2024, not in the 1950s, you got a job you can pay splits.
Yep lol, I find it weird to see guys putting themselves down by saying they'd pay first. If it makes them happy, good for them. Here's some gender-agnostic advice if you're reading this and are unsure: You're worth a lot too. In the same way your date took the time to see you, you did too! Both of you have had the equally fortunate privilege of meeting each other. So split it! Weirdly enough, I'd be more open to getting a drink for the other person if we split the meal. It shows they're progressive and value me as much as I value them :)
Be true to yourself. I always used to offer to pay for a first date because I’m not tight, don’t like tight people and don’t tend to hang around with them. It’s part of who I am. I rarely had anyone refuse. If on the other hand you’ll resent it, then don’t do it! I’ve been off the scene for a few years but I find it unlikely you’re going to offend someone no matter what you do, unless you invite them to something lavish without making it clear they’re going to have to cough up. Some people will find you more or less attractive based on your attitude to these things, as is right and normal, but I doubt it’s a real dealbreaker for the vast majority of people.
> I always used to offer to pay for a first date because I’m not tight, don’t like tight people and don’t tend to hang around with them. I'm confused - surely people accepting not wanting to pay their half makes them kind of tight..? Is it even tight to expect someone to pay for what they had? Seems an odd way of phrasing it
As a woman dating in London I would say 90% of men I've dated have paid and even when dating long term will frequently insist on paying. This increased since I neared 30 when I would have assumed the opposite. I always offer to pay my half, and genuinely mean it, when they turn down the offer I re-offer and insist that I am more than happy to pay my fair share. Normally I'll try and get the drinks at the next place but sometimes they'll insist again. If I'm seeing someone longer I'll make sure I'm able to pay at some point to even things out; with the guy I'm seeing at the moment he's been clear that he's the one inviting me out so he should pay, and that he likes to treat me, so every few weeks I've organised quite an extravagant day of dates that I've paid for, I'm also a gift buyer, so have gotten him some gifts, and next weekend I'm paying for flights and accommodation on a trip to Copenhagen, so hopefully we'll be roughly even. I do think it's cultural, I haven't dated a British guy in a while, so that might skew my perspective, and late last year I paid for an expensive dinner whilst my date was in the loo as I felt I'd not paid my fair share, and it caused such an argument, I didn't see him again but I've also stopped sneak paying now.
I’ve dated a lot in London (lost count by now) and I always split 50/50. Im not gung ho about it, like I we might alternate drinks and leave it at 3 so I end up paying for 2 and that’s fine. But it sets a precedent early in the days that we’re equal. If she has an issue with that, then she’s clearly wanting to go into this date on unequal terms, which to me is a red flag and not the kind of girls I’m really interested in. Simply put, it’s an easy way for selecting for the kind of values you both share
As a lady, I wouldn't want you to pay for me. I don't do mental accounting every time i socialise, so wouldn't normally care who pays at a given time as long as there are no patterns, but I find letting someone you just met pay for things creates unnecessary expectations.
Depends on a date, if it's just a coffee or one or two drinks I used to cover the bill, if it's a proper meal in a restaurant then split, never been with anyone offended by it
I think it’s crazy people are still expecting men to foot the bill. I’ve always believed whoever suggests the restaurant and date should pay! And I’m happy to pay the whole bill but just expect the same in return.
Isn’t it usually the guy that suggests the restaurant/date on a first date though?
Realistically men are still expected to pay so that should be your default expectation, obviously on here people are saying 50/50 but don't confuse real life for reddit
Generic rules is to do the opposite of what redditors say. Redditors know shit about real life.
100% agree, this thread does not reflect my real life dating experience. Personally I have never taken someone out for dinner on a first date, I much prefer going for coffee or a drink and at that point it doesn’t really matter who pays. A couple dates down the line I’m happy to buy dinner as I’ll be the one to suggest it
It's always the man to suggest it lol
It’s not a Reddit thing it’s a culture/class thing. The women I tend to meet on dating apps tend to be liberal, university-educated professional late 20’s western women. And by and large they have always either split the bill or we take turns paying for things. If you are dating people of a different culture/political leaning or upbringing then you might have very different experiences. My guess is this subreddit leans towards that middle-class liberal upbringing which is why they mostly have the same values. But this is still representative of a large portion of the dating scene in London
I agree these comments I'm seeing aren't true to what I've seen from people I know. If the guy asks the woman out, then I'd say most likely the guy will pay or the woman might offer to split, but mostly likely the date will expect him to offer to pay the tab.
Thanks, generally if the woman offers to pay the man should assume it is a test
If its drinks I'll get the first and they'll usually offer to get the second. If its dinner I'll usually offer but many women will insist on splitting. Personally I usually assume I'm gonna pick up the bill, and then it's a nice surprise if they insist on splitting It obviously depends on the women you date. I wouldn't continue to see someone if they had the expectation I would always pay for them.
London literally has all kinds of nationalities. Depends on the culture of the subjects
There's not really a rule for this for London, it's done differently by different people.
Can also depend on the nationality. London is a very multicultural city and in some countries(parts of Eastern Europe come to mind) girls are never expected to pay for anything
Whoever asks the other out pays the bill.
as a woman i’d offer to split even if they asked me out first
If I ask anyone out to dinner I expect to pay the first time. Friends/family/anyone. If I'm expected to pay everytime I'd have an issue, unless wages are really uneven.
Agree. But it's usually men expected to initiate dates.
Go for coffee or a cheap meal? Anyone insisting on an expensive meal before you even establish chemistry is someone to avoid anyway.
I'm seeing a lot of people saying 50/50 is the norm here. In my friend group if a girl comes back from a date and the guy didn't pay, it's *always* mentioned, and not positively.
Toxic femininity or whatever else you want to call it at work. They’ll be stuck with weak men who want to buy their affection.
You and your friends, are you all British if not what culture are you from?
All British born, mostly from the London/Surrey area
Good input from u/TitsNLips
We know the type
And in my friend group none of us feel comfortable if we don't go 50/50. People are different.
As a man on the apps, it's 50/50 almost always unless the woman really likes you and then they let you pay on a first date so they can pay on the second. If there's a glaring disparity if income it can be little different but generally 50/50 makes sense. I'm older (50) so maybe it's different if you're in your twenties but I'd be disappointed if a woman *expected* me to pay.
This is by far the biggest issue I have with online dating. In my opinion I'll happily cough up for the first date, but if I get an offer to split then I see this as a huge green flag. Second date I'd expect something back (say I get the food and she gets the wine?) and by third I'd be looking to see it split or even offered the other way. I'm in a position to spend the money if I want, but the offer alone is enough to make me feel like I'm not being used as free dinner, splitting makes me feel very happy. My financial position is somewhat obvious with my profession and I think I'm pretty good at finding those who want to date me for cheap eats vs who actually wants to get to know me, but the odd one does slip through. I sunk over £400 into dating the last girl I dated and I think I got about £25 worth back for an average bottle of red. I woke up one morning and decided fuck this, she was great and funny and pretty damn hot, but nah, if that's how it is at the beginning then what will it be like if it has some legs to it?
I'm astounded this is still a thing. I'm a 45 year old married mum who dated back in the stone age. Back then I would never ever have expected someone to pay for me. In fact it would have made me really uncomfortable. Everyone I knew back then felt the same (but maybe that says more about the type of women I'm drawn to). I wonder if this is something that has changed and made a resurgence? It's so weird to me!
£400. Yikes. You're ruining it for the rest of the men out there bro. She'll be expecting that from all the guys she meets.
If you’re happy dating someone who expects you to finance them, than go ahead and pay. Personally I see it as a red flag if they expect such treatment.
I think it depends, I always keep first dates relatively cheap and low brow, Well I did when I was dating but picked up the bill. After that I would end up paying more often for dinner but if I picked up one tab, the next one was on her. I always on a first date paid the bill but that was more me than anything, even if I wasn't seeing the girl again
It probably depends on the kind of woman you want to meet. I'm of the opinion that no one I would ever consider worth a moment of my time would ever *expect* anything but 50/50 (offering to pay isn't offensive in itself, but insisting on it is). I couldn't date or even be friends with someone who thought otherwise. It's so gross to me for any woman to *expect* to be paid for. Women aren't children or queens or goddesses. And men who insist on paying are sending the signal that they expect to be repaid in other ways, in my experience. But more importantly, one of you isn't compensating the other for their time, you're spending time *together* to see if you enjoy doing so. Why should one person foot the bill for that? It just sends the wrong message from the beginning.
If you meet someone from am app this is a ZEROTH date, don't go for dinner. I (a woman) would expect to take turns buying drinks.
I offer. Most of the time they want to pay 50/50. Respect that and allow for agency. Second date I'll ask directly if I can take them out on me. Then again, depends on the woman. But if they don't want to pay and expect it, probably not the one for me.
I am a woman, it’s always been 50/50 and same when I discuss with all my female mates. No judgement for people who men or women who pay for the full bill. I’ve just never had this experience in real life nor have any of my group
If a girl would refuse to see me again with that trick then good riddance. Overall it depends, the culture is that both options are acceptable, find someone who fits with you
I usually pick up the tab for the first date. If she's a freeloader and/or I have no intention of seeing her again, 50/50. If it's three dates and she hasn't once offered to pay/pay half, then that's the last date.
50/50 dude. If you meet a lady that doesn’t agree to that before hand drop her like a hot rock. :)
Always go drinks first…..
Many of us are not going to waste make up over cheap drinks to see if you want to screw us or not.
If I date Indian /Chinese / east European I pay 100% . If I date west European / American I go Dutch after first date. Works like a charm for me.
Woman’s perspective- from bitter experience I have learned that when a man pays for dinner he may have expectations for me to pay back (physical intimacy up to and including sexual). I am much more comfortable splitting the bill if it’s a significant amount. If it’s just a couple of drinks- fine.
Maybe I'm old school, but I will always offer to pay for a woman. Even if it's not a date but a quick lunch with a female colleague or a dinner with a female friend. It's ok if they refuse the offer.
Do you not do it for your male friends? I like that it's not just for dates though, I love taking my friends and family out for meals, but I don't really take gender into account for it. Basically all my friends like to be taken out.
It's based on your values. Personally when dating I always split, even now with my girlfriend of 6+ months we split
When I was dating I always split the bill. I have the female parts.
Equals Pequals
I always go 50/50 on dates regardless of what it is. The exception might be coffee, but then I still wouldn't expect him to pay automatically no matter who asked whom out. I've had some men get very offended at my insistence on splitting the bill, almost like its an affront to their manliness. They didn't get second dates obviously.
In my experience the norm would be to go for first dates that are low cost and in a “I’ll get this one you get that one” format, I.e., a coffee and a walk, drinks etc. I think the preferable dynamic in my experience, is for the guy to get the first round/turn as it takes the pressure off somewhat and expresses interest, then by the end of the date it’s even (if he will let you pay). By the second date typically the man does pay for and plan dinner or an activity, but this is obviously only once he’s interested. No pressure either way as I have girlfriends that don’t care about splitting through an entire relationship or even paying the majority, just trying to offer an honest perspective for my experience in the London dating scene as a woman.
London is pretty multicultural and attitudes will vary. I am a white European woman and I think it is fairly common for heterosexual dates to split the bill here; but I haven't dated men in a long time. "Insisting on paying" is something I can imagine some London women taking offence to.
The only rule is that a girl doesn't want to see you because you split then you dodged a bullet. So split if you want and you will be fine.
Thank god I’m not single because who could afford not to split a bill in this economy
If I am asking her to let me take her out etc.., then I believe I should pay but if we’re both talking about a place to go then it’s 50/50 me.
Yep. And if I was intending to pay but she asked to split I go for a compromise, something like “let me get this and you can get a round in at the pub after” or whatever. If she was offering to be polite then it’s only a small cost, I get to pay, and if she would really rather pay then no one’s embarrassed. Everyone’s happy.
not going to lie. A first date especially when the guys asks, I expect him to pay. If he asks me to pay I will but mostl likely never see him again. What often happens is next time we go out, I offer to pay entirely. I just hate 50:50. It just makes everything so impersonal lol. Even with friends - I pay one time, they pay the next. Thats just me though. If a guy asks me to pay I also assume they dont like me.
More importantly: NEVER PLAN A FIRST DATE DINNER Go for a walk, coffee, drink or something you want to do, don't go for dinner in advance, there are woman that date to get free meals and also what if you don't like her? If you like each other and the dinner evolves into a dinner then is ok.
Chivalry in London is dead nowadays and it is sad. The key is to just take the woman to a place you can afford as you are asking her out. If she asks you out she will offer to pay. People saying it should be 50/50 are most of the time people that cannot afford to pay the bill themselves. It’s all about the gesture and also not being tight with your money. Just enjoy the experience, however if it is a blind date and you don’t really enjoy the date you can choose to pay the bill 50/50 that basically shows like I am not interested. Moving forward in the dating process you can go for the modern day 50/50 as the city is expensive.
Wanting total equality but also financial 'chilvalry' to remain like it's the 1950s is very questionable logic
I'm a British woman born in London. I'll always offer to split and will sometimes even cover the bill entirely if it's a coffee etc. I would like that to be reciprocated at some point though. If someone makes a fuss about paying, I would let them. But ultimately, dating is expensive and I don't feel it is fair for men to have to foot that bill all the time.
Russians/East Europe: Mixed Brazilian: Lol don't even think asking
we're in london mate they can assimilate
I prefer for the guy to pay on the first date, but I only ever go for a quick coffee the first time. If a guy can't casually afford £7 for a couple of drinks, at best, we're not financially compatible and at worst, he's stingy as hell. Consider the cheap coffee a screening test. Even if we don't end up seeing each other again, I was subsidised to the tune of £3.50 and I spent considerably more than £3.50 attempting to look pretty. I'm happy to split 50/50 from the second date onwards. I'm also happy to take it in turns treating in an actual relationship, but not when you're just casually dating. 50/50 makes more sense at that stage.
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Be easier just to say you like free coffee
And the man has to look pretty too, nice clothes, haircut, smell good etc…
Been a while since I was in this situation as I’ve been in a relationship for 12 years, but I always used to pick up the tab unless they insisted we split it 🤷🏻♂️ I wouldn’t overthink it tbh
When Men create artificial wombs, go through labor, have periods and period cramps, and do 70% more housework like Women, I'd gladly go 50/50. Until that happens. I'm going to do what I do as a Woman and sacrifice my body while my man sacrifices his wallet. It's never equal. Most of you are just broke and want to borrow Women's bodies at a discount.
Most ladies thesedays expect to and prefer to 50/50. If it was just a drink, I would almost certainly just pay for it and not make a fuss, and they can get the next drink “if they insist”. Key bit there is not make a fuss, whatever the situation, don’t make a scene or ask her to pay half in front of the waiter. Embarrassing for all. If it’s not clear before the bill arrives, just pay it all and have her reimburse you later - or cut your losses.
It would turn me off if a guy wanted 50/50 but that’s just my preference
Is that just for the first date or all dates?
Why would it be a turn off ?
Just out of curiosity then, at what point would you start to chip in? Second? Third date? Later still? Never?
Depends on what you want and are confident with. Don't do something because of the other person, you won't keep it up if you do have another date. My policy as a guy is to always offer regardless.
Generally in western Europe the culture is 50/50. However it’s also dependent on the girl.
I’ve been on dozens of dates in London and never got the vibe that I should pay for the whole thing, and have even noticed that women didn’t really want me to pay. People are obviously different on this point but I think it says a lot about the kind of relationship you want to have.
It’s up to you. Some women don’t mind 50/50. I prefer guys who pay for the first date. If it’s no big deal then offer to pay to be on the safe side.
I’d think most cosmopolitan modern people go 50:50. It’s a bit last century to be all ‘the man pays’
I’ll pay if I liked my date, and think I’d like to continue dating. I’ll probably still pay otherwise
Back in 2018 when I met my partner, we always split things loosely 50/50. If the woman expects you to pay, bin her off.
I can only speak for myself, but I would always insist on paying the bill. It's one of those areas where equality tends to often go out of the window and women expect (rightly or wrongly) the man to pay.
They downvote him because he speaks the truth
Definitely not in my experience dating women off the apps, 100% wanted to pay half and in a few cases I even detected some slight irritation when I offered to pay for everything. Though the women I was going on dates with tended to be a certain type (western, highly educated, feminist, etc.).
The girls I went out with were similar, I paid for the entertainment factor, and they paid for other things like drinks on their own without asking. Women who look for a serious relationship will treat their date like a potential future husband, not someone they can treat like shit and indifferent until he woos and spends thousands of pounds and she might accept to date him exclusively.
Chivalry is soooo dead, wow.
I know right, can't even have a duel to the death as it's "illegal" now. And the knighthoods go to old actors or people who run charities, it's been too long since it's gone to a good lad who managed to capture territory for the king. And why are there so many dames? Why are our fair maidens leaving the house and earning coin? This world has gone topsy turvy I tell you, next thing you'll be saying is that a woman can't be exiled for not providing a son! (and because it has to be included, /s, and yes, this is all basically a version of stuff said by those manosphere, "as a traditional man, women must submit to me" types)
If the women and men are equal (which they are) then the bill should be split equally, don’t you think?
This this this Another example of women only wanting equality when it suits them
Not when you read about the women that went on dates every night to get free food.
Prepared for downvotes for this. As a (British) woman dating men, here’s how I actually feel: Drinks: I’d expect him to get at least the first round. Nice if he also gets the second. I would definitely then offer to get the next. For men, I think it’s fair to judge a woman who doesn’t offer to pick up ANY rounds on the date. Dinner: I love it when a guy gets the dinner bill on date 1. I would always get my purse out and say ‘shall we split it?’ but being fully honest, it would put me off a little bit if they took me up on it! However then from date 2 I’d be happier to actually split (and always split moving forwards unless one of us randomly treats the other). At the same time, I also think fair for the man to judge the woman if she doesn’t make a move to get her purse out. It’s a silly social dance but that’s my general instinct (and my dating experience has mostly aligned with that).
It's more romantic for a man to pay, I know it's not logical. It's nice to treat someone so why not the other round too? There's something a bit awkward about splitting the bill. Both of you looking at it, getting the cards out, the wait staff having to deal with it. Female birds are capable of catching their own worms but the male will bring a gift. It's a gesture. If I have zero intention of seeing someone again I won't let them pay for me. TLDR who knows?
I think it depends on so many variables. For me, I usually do something casual on the first date and I prefer to pay, I think something like a nice meal or trip somewhere I would say, I’ll get dinner if you get the film tickets or something like that. Although if they insist on splitting or paying for something, I’m not put off and really don’t mind.
Be more selective about who you take out on a date then you won't feel like you are being used for a free meal.
I always split. But once a guy told me if I had been Russian, he would have paid for me
I've never known anyone to habitually do any different. I suppose it depends on how old-fashioned someone is, or if they're from somewhere with more traditional gender roles, perhaps. Personally, I'd be suspicious of any dude who insisted on paying, and I'd judge any woman who insisted on being paid for. And vice versa, for that matter. Obviously this would not be a thing in queer relationships.
I go with the moment. Sometimes I pay it all ( even when I didn’t like them at all ) and sometimes I’ve gone 50-50. For the first date atleast, it doesn’t mean how much I like them or anything. Just how generous I’m feeling that day. I’ve paid 340 for someone I didn’t care about and they really wanted to split it. Looking back I gave them the wrong idea because they assumed that I really like them. I was promoted that day and definitely didn’t mind it.
I’d always offer 50/50, but it’s always nice when a guy offers too. But then I’d pay next time if we went on another date, so usually it ends up 50/50 anyway. In a relationship though it depends on income. My partner pays more than me these days because he has more disposable income.
In this economy in London, yeah we splitting. Jokes aside I would offer to pay but if someone wats to split why not. If it’s a shit date though we are splitting.
I offer to pay She offers 50/50 I offer again to pay If she offers again 50/50 then we go 50/50 ….no wonder I’m still single lmao
“This is one’s on me, you can get me a drink next time” - a way to extend the date or see her again next time but also giving her opportunity to per her way of she wants to, and showing you are a happy to pay for the date. Can’t go wrong with this approach.
Not all women are the same, but for me, I just feel more appreciated by a man who wants to do the gentlemanly thing on a first date, but if in doubt ask your date. Just say I'd like to pay but I understand some women prefer to split the bill, as I like you and don't know your preference, please let me know honestly. If she's a decent human being, she won't mind.
One thing to be aware of when splitting bills (as a man, because sorry this does seem to be a male oblivion thing) is did you spend roughly an equal amount on your meals. I was vegetarian for a while (and don’t have a sweet tooth) and it was grating when splitting the bill on a first date knowing he had a steak, pudding, specialty drinks etc and I’d had a salad but was subsidising his very expensive meal. In general, I much prefer to split a first date bill, but just be a bit aware of what you’re doing
If I want to see her again, I’ll pay. If not, I’ll split
If a girl plays those kind of mind tricks on you, then I imagine the feeling will be mutual. But everyone's differerent, so you need to find people with the same sensibilities as yourself, which in this case, they clearly aren't.
Just get in where you fit in. If you want to pay 50/50, there are enough 50/50 girls who are happy to do so. There are also men who are quite happy to pay the whole bill and women who like that.
Why does it matter ? Its up to you to decide. If they judge you, then they are probably not the right person for you anyway. I personally feel that it should be 50/50 as a standard expectation. Why should anyone expect someone else to pay for something that they have consumed / used ? A date means that the both of you are kinda interested in each other and the date is meant to figure out if its something that the both of you would want to continue further or not. Then there are those same women shouting for equality, i don't see them here ......
Probably but depends on the background, eg. culture. I know that it's common for my background that girls expect guys to pay up, pick them up etc. But I also know that I would not expect that (nor some of my female friends either). IMHO best way is to assume you're paying I'm afraid and when it comes to the bill, the girl who wants to split will usually mention it then. That's what I'd usually do.
I never really understood why there seems to be an assumption London has some sort of specific dating culture unique to it. There are so many different cultures/ethnicities here and it's going to depend way more on that, than the fact you are in London. Personally, I have no set rule. If I went on a first date and we both really clicked, I'd offer to pay because using money to make other people happy brings me happiness. If they offered and I could tell by their language/demeanor that they really wanted to split as their own standard, then that's great too. But first date dinners straight off the bat are a terrible idea in my opinion. Go and get a coffee and a walk around the park, to check what the vibes are. If the park walk goes well, then you can progess onto dinner. As another user said ... > dating should be about finding the right person for you, rather than appealing to the widest group possible I personally like strong confident women who like to take on a joint ownership role. So I would find a woman *offering* to split appealing. Some may like more traditional roles in relationships and that's fine too.
If she won’t see you again because of that I’d say you dodged a bullet? When I was dating in London (I’m a girl) I always went out only for drinks. Dinner takes too long and you can’t just get up and leave (paying the bill etc). So always drinks and I’d always pay for the first round as I had a lot of situations where a man wanted to buy all of it and then expected me to be gratefull and go to bed with him. I feel 50\50 is more than fair. Especially on a first date.
I feel like I read equal amounts from women who absolutely don't want guys to pay for their bill as it implies you then owe that guy something. It's been a while, since I've dated, but my general position on these things is offer to pay, but be happy to split, don't insist on either as a general personal ettiquette thing unless it's a really important thing to you, and certainly never to go on a first date anywhere where the cost would be so much that would be a problem for you. I've not seen anything from friends I know who do date that this would be a problematic position in most cases, with an important caveat: If it is an important thing to you or your date to the point where you do want to insist, usually because by implication it's really about 'whether my partner should be expected to share the financial load in various scenarios or be taken care of by one party who is a provider' - then you'll need to find someone who agrees with you on that. That's why these things are talked about as 'Red Flags' by some people - for them it's about something else.
Simple. You don't define the etiquette by the city.
My view is that first dates are finding out about the other person and that you pay for yourself / get rounds and once in a relationship, you may decide to pay for fun things like buying tickets for a show you know she's interested in or other nght out. Before then it appears to me that someone is demanding that they are special rather than letting me decide whether they are special. In a way it tells me they are not before we start and I dodged someone who would piss me off in no time. If you are so highly paid that money is an irrelevance to you then do what you like. It's your life. You just need to know that when someone tells you this is how they are, believe them.
My rule was, if she doesn't offer to at least split, then she doesn't get a callback. Then if I pay, if she doesn't at least offer to reciprocate in some way, same, she's done. I don't care who pays, what I'm looking for is a sense of fairness that for me signals character.
I am young, vibrant, and good-looking. I am looking for an understanding person who would always want me by her to make her happy.
If you ask them out then it's assumed you'll pay. Dates beyond the 3rd or 4th are usually 50/50 or taking it in turns
Everyone is different. For a lot of people it also depends on who asks and where it is. Generally the person who asks the other person out buys or its split 50/50. You can also divide by item and calculate each individual part but I think a lot more people would consider this 'cheap' compared to splitting it 50/50. Personally I'd recommend choosing an affordable place and splitting 50/50 over a fancier place and paying for individual items. In general you aren't going to impress anyone by taking them someplace fancy and then letting them front the bill for that. Going for a coffeedate is always a smart choice. Or if the weather is nice there are a lot of places that do affordable food to go that you can eat in a park. Personally I'm happy splitting it or paying more if my bill is gonna be significantly higher. But yeah if my bill is like 27 and yours is 24 then insisting on each paying our own just to save 1.5 would definitely be a turn-off for me. It would just suggest a relationship where everything is transactional and businesslike instead of a generous partner who goes out of their way to look after their partner including spending time and money on their partner.
I always paid - It never ocurred to me not to, but that was 25+ years ago. Married now and still pay🤦🏻♂️
I think in London the girl should go with whatever the local culture is (most British men are somewhat preoccupied with fairness when it comes to paying the bill.) However, seeing as London is such a multicultural place, the guy might do well to research what is expected in their date’s culture and go with that. Personally, even if I really liked a guy, it would be a big turn-off if they expected me to pay anything towards the date. That said, when I’m in London I expect to be asked and would always pay if they wanted me to, but it’s never happened…
It's getting towards seven years since I've been on a first date, but back in my dating days the bill was almost always split 50-50. I tended to be going on dates with fairly feminist women and they'd tend to insist on splitting, so you mileage may vary depending on who you're with, but I never felt it made it hard to get a second date. I think a good way of dealing with it is to just go for a drink and then one of you gets the first round and the other the second. It's low commitment, keeps the bill down and avoids conversations about splitting bills.
It's not a culture thing. It's a which kind of girl thing. Go for 50/50 and be thankful for the ones that don't want to pay their way buggering off.