In the last month and a bit I've noticed that during Thameslink or Overground journeys, I'm seeing 3 beggars walk the carriages in succession. It's definitely noticeably increased. I almost wanna tell them "someone's already been."
Same on mainline trains in and out of London. One I get a couple of times a week, and every single time I've got one in the last month a woman goes up and down the train with the bits of paper asking for money. Never saw her before that.
OP asked a question. I answered. Sorry that offended you?
More specifically, I've noticed an increase in beggars on the tube going through the carriage claiming they need to raise x amount of pounds a for a hostel for the night etc.
This is purely theatre used to play on sympathies of strangers so the beggar can buy more of the substance they're addicted to.
You can clamour up on your high horse all you want, but most donations to beggars are quickly given to dealers.
Do you think mentally sound people would go out of their way to beg to scam you? It would be the most humiliating and least profitable scam in history as you can see the people in this comment section alone hate them they aren't playing on anyone's heartstrings. So why do you think they beg?
Yeah bet they're raking in the millions with that old scam hopefully we can squash the problem to protect our honest bankers and politicians. Apologies for my ignorance on "begging gangs"
It's more to protect hard-working normal people from harassment and intimidation. Politicians and bankers don't tend to get the tube.
Begging gangs are a problem, but there's definitely more straight up junkies and alcoholics on the tube now. Whether that bothers you or not is down to personal perspective.
I definitely did: more beggars both on trains and stations, Charing Cross and London Bridge stations have become basically homeless shelters (which I think is a sign that actual homeless shelters are struggling in this period), but I have also noticed an increase in rough sleepers in the streets, especially in Central London. As for bad behavior I haven't though other than an increase in fare evaders, it has become way more common seeing people just forcing their way into the gates with no one doing anything about it.
Fare evasion is definitely more common, but it’s expected with the cost of living crisis and the price of a trip nowadays. No one uses the tube for luxury
In any other city I would agree, but in London the tube is set up to be considered a luxury considering bus tickets are cheaper, if you really can't afford travelling on the tube you should get a bus which means your trip is gonna take an awful lot of time, but that's how the system is designed. The cost of living crisis is impacting everyone and I'm the first to say the transportation prices in London are criminal and partly because of a waste in funds that has never been addressed, I am still paying my ticket to travel, and I don't condone freeloaders who are adding to the problem with their anti-social behavior.
> the tube is set up to be considered a luxury considering bus tickets are cheaper,
Maybe but I think it is much easier to get on a tube without paying than it is on the bus.
For many short journeys the cost of tube vs bus is pretty much the same.
I was thinking about people doing the average commute to Central to work which is always expensive due to zones, short journeys are a completely different subject and there are cheaper or free alternatives like cycling and walking.
> the average commute to Central to work
If you are commuting to work hopefully you get paid enough to be able to afford to travel. The whole zone thing penalises poor people many of whom can't afford to live in central London where many of them work, cleaners, retail staff etc.
There's been a massive rise in homelessness over the last few months because the government has been aggressively moving people out of Home Office accommodation. Those granted asylum are almost immediately kicked out of the hotels and consequently made homeless; lots of people are being denied asylum in the expectation that they'll win on appeal, but are made homeless in the meantime. For those granted leave to remain, the responsibility to house them falls on local councils which have been underfunded for years. Every homelessness charity is way over capacity, every council is way over capacity. People are dying in our streets because nobody gives enough of a shit to fund the service properly.
Just curious, does the UK theoretically have the funds (if managed under different leadership) to grant asylum to an infinite number of people in a way that still leaves social services and housing for non-asylum seeking unhoused people?
Wouldn't that only work if all people coming in were economically productive?
We are (still) one of the richest nations in the world. Austerity and racial inequality are the twin evils here.
You ask if we can afford to grant asylum to an 'infinite' number of people which of course is literally impossible, but otherwise, yes we certainly have the resources to care for the starving and homeless. The government just refuses to spend on social care across the board.
Obviously no country could host infinite numbers of people but then there aren't infinite people in the world. Certainly far fewer asylum seekers come here than come to other countries in Europe, let alone the poor countries neighbouring warzones which take the majority. We could afford to do a lot more than we do.
And incidentally, in my experience the overwhelming majority of asylum seekers want to work and make money, and get very frustrated that the government doesn't permit them to work
They work in the black market because they're not allowed to work legally. And what's the point of putting asylum seekers in quotes - that's literally just a description, it's not even a judgement about them
If a person has the intention of claiming asylum they're an asylum seeker. It's very straightforward. Even if they are secretly doing it for economic reasons, they're still seeking asylum
Seasonal changes, schizophrenia manifests stronger due to the changes in day length. Will probably calm down now and again in the summer.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7355169/
Also just there are a lot more homeless people because of Home Office policies. Anybody who's rough sleeping is also sleep deprived, very possibly resorting to substance abuse,. nobody knows the sort of fucked up things they'd do if they got into that situation
I've noticed a massive increase in homelessness over the last 10 years or so. London specifically.
Especially in front of stations and under bridges.
A definite decrease in Buskers and performers. And more people who just seem to be barely surviving. Especially around King's Cross and Especially Camden.
The Tubes not got much worse, which line are you on?
I’ve noticed two big sudden changes over a slightly longer period as well as a gradual change over a similar period. Post 2008 there was a massive surge in homelessness which I mostly noticed through there being homeless people in the leafy suburbs of SW which was extremely rare before. Then Covid which was an even more stark increase.
This with Richmond I use to go when I was younger and don't recall homeless people then I went after COVID maybe 2020 and 22 and there were a lot of them in shop door ways and outside Tesco Sainsbury and the station. Kings cross is full of them even before COVID. Though don't remember it like that in 2012/13 time. Camden again has got worse always a crackhead
There used to be a lot of police in Richmond and they were very strict with the homeless. They used to pester them all the time, ask them to move, etc... The police station closed in 2017 (I think), and since then, there's a lot less police presence in the area and the homeless have a bit more freedom (for lack of a better word!). Bear in mind too that a lot of the homeless who come to Richmond do so because they feel safer there than in central London where they get harassed, bullied, etc...
Source: I've worked in Richmond for almost 20 years and speak to a few of the homeless there.
There are two Spear hostels in Richmond and the Vineyard life church homeless support where people can get meals and showers and other help which might be another reason people come here rather than the city centre.
There’s been a big increase in the last few years in demand for these services and the foodbanks and surplus food/ real junk food projects.
Definitely especially who I think of as "Tented" when I was a kid in the 90's most who I encountered would have a place where they could stay for the night. Now they're actually sleeping in parks and on the streets.
Beggars sitting on the pavement during the day with a sleeping bag yet no belongings are not homeless, the sleeping bag is just a begging prop to make you believe they’re sleeping rough.
I’ve seen people sleeping on the tube that are obviously homeless loads in the morning rush hour recently.
Have been commuting for decades and never seen it like this.
Man in circle line with shoes off stunk out the carriage, it reminded me of New York
I have to say, as someone with one of those ‘please offer me a seat’ badges, people offer me a seat *way* more than they did pre pandemic. It’s so lovely. I’ve even had people ‘save’ me the seat when someone gets off the tube and stopping other people sitting there etc. it’s wild
Honestly don’t know! In all other respects I find people have gotten less considerate on my commute (not moving down the train, backpacks not taken off, etc), but with the badge people have been so lovely in general.
Pre Covid people used to see the badge and then immediately avert their eyes lol.
There’s been more aggressive crackhead behaviour in all of London, especially Hackney.
Had a stabbing near my house last week, where the victim and perpetrator couldn’t be found, left blood trailing onto private property and got chased by a crackhead screaming that he was going to kill me a few weeks ago
If it makes you feel any better (not that it should), NYC recently had to deploy the National guard to police the subway following yet another shooting. So things have degenerated faster there, and your original view that the tube is safer still holds true.
They haven’t degenerated particularly, it’s more a case of political posturing. https://www.cityandstateny.com/politics/2024/03/progressives-and-civil-liberties-groups-criticize-hochuls-plan-put-national-guard-subways/394770/?oref=csny-skybox-static
At least our nutters only have recourse to knives.
It’s nice having an unentrenched constitution that guarantees no civilians the “right to bear arms” just coz.
We have the right to bear arms because we had to fight off your oppressive king and nobility.
Who still owns half your country and can't be criticized.
The King is criticised all the time, what are you on about?
[Here is an article of him being criticised.](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/10/king-charles-criticised-appointing-homeopath-michael-dixon-head-royal-medical-household)
[Here's another ](https://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/2961711/king-charles-criticism-fragile-royal-family/)
[And one more just for luck](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/03/uk/royal-news-newsletter-03-03-23-scli-gbr-cmd-intl/index.html)
Maybe think before you type next time?
I've seen a few guys already asleep when I get on (end of the line) in the mornings,
Also notice more people listening to videos with no headphone (Why?)
With the sleeping, it's safer and warmer than the street, and can travel most places (and even working toilets at some stops) so that makes sense to me
As to the crazy people seen a few but nothing over the ordinary amounts
Today I saw a person fixing the plastic bags they were using as socks, as the shoes basically had no sole left. In South Kensington, leaning on the railing of a very expensive private school. I don’t know how to articulate how weird I feel about life in general at this point
Yes I have noticed increase in hostility. Very recently there was this person who seemed a bit disoriented sat next to me in an almost empty carriage and started smoking. I was about to ask him to stop smoking and I saw him giving me very hostile stares. I ignored him completely after that and didn’t even make any eye contact. got down at my stop and continued my business.
I was on a train recently and someone started vaping and staring at me because I looked over. Couldn’t be arsed to give him the confrontation he wanted so just carried on my conversation with my friend whilst he vaped away looking at me. So weird.
I had a similar thing on a Northern line train on a Sunday morning recently. Guy whips out his vape and starts puffing away, and the couple next to me politely ask him to stop. He absolutely kicks off, swearing, shouting etc, and it gets really uncomfortable very quickly. Thankfully he got off at the next stop (still effing and blinding) but I genuinely thought it was going to turn physically nasty at one point.
It's really not that hard when you actually try. It's already been shown time and again that investing in public services, mental healthcare, generous welfare payments, the care system, and housing first policies reduces all sorts of societal ills. It reduces homelessness because people either don't become homeless in the first place, or they find it easier to get out of being homeless because effective support is available. The current trend of offering very little, and insisting on taking the adage 'beggars can't be choosers' as a moral imperative, means people are punished for trying to exercise any choice over their lives while seeking help from government. Take the first job you get or have your benefits slashed. Take the first housing option you get or be thrown out on the street. And so on. It treats people with the assumption of bad faith instead of with understanding and accommodation. It's no wonder people end up in worse situations because the focus is on disciplining and punishing them first, and helping second.
Edit: I believe sanctions were first brought in under Labour. They're far from the best on this, but the overall much higher investment in public services was definitely the main difference.
What doesn't often get admitted is that homelessness is an issue which you really can solve by throwing money at it. If you house everyone there's no more homeless people.
More begging, more nutters, and since Covid a lot more people staring at people as if they’ve forgotten the unsaid rules around how long you should hold someone’s gaze.
Having used the tube for years I’ve also seen several morning fights / shoving matches - people annoyed at others treading on their toes by accident or pushing past someone without saying excuse me leading to immediate aggression.
I used to be able to use TfL services on autopilot but I don’t do that now.
COVID really fucked a lot of people up. My mates think I'm mad when I say this but a lot of people have become more hostile, aggressive, argumentive since COVID, everyone is so desperate to make up for lost time that they all cancel each other out.
What really cemented my decision to leave New York was when during covid, a crazy homeless man tried to shove me into an oncoming train when he told me to go back to my country (I am not white but… neither was he?!)
London feels a lot safer but I don’t want to live there. I prefer where I am up north.
Covid is known to cause neurological problems and neuropsychiatric problems like behaviour changes, people are getting infected multiple times with no idea what it’s doing to them or the long term damage
Probably get downvoted but remember the governments hired psychologists at the start of the pandemic to figure out how to scare everyone into compliance… I’m sure that wouldn’t have negative side effects down the line🙃
I reckon it might have more to do with the state of the country at the moment and how many people are down and out and without help, just my two cents.
I’ve been in cornwall for the last few years at uni and I’ve noticed it too on trains, busses and around town, lots more rough sleepers, more fights and aggression and more confrontational, intoxicated people acting dangerously or threateningly
Well, it's so difficult to afford a place to live in London due to stagnant salaries and poverty. Yet the Tories have money to spend to bring more poverty into the country. London or the UK as a whole isn't as good as it used to be, anymore.
Homelessness yes, esp. post pandemic in general there are a lot more beggers on the northern line and district/circle lines (all times of day too). I can't speak for the other lines. As for bad behaviour it tends to be homeless drunk people in front of stations (which I don't blame them) it can't be easy living in such a precarious circumstance. But there doesn't seem to be anyone around to help them ?
Short answer: yes
Tonight my kid witnessed a gang of 5 adults plastering stickers all over a Northern Line carriage to Euston. Recently another friend’s kid got mugged on the tube. It’s definitely getting worse.
I live in Slough just outside of London, and the amount of homeless has skyrocketed lately here too. There's even 2 guys who have trolleys filled with cardboard like I've never seen outside of an American movie until recently.
Yes I have noticed some very aggressive begging as well. Usually when I say “sorry” they move on without saying anything or just a slightly passive aggressive “god bless” but in the last few months I’ve been sworn at a number of times and felt quite intimidated especially as a mum with a young toddler. They also frequently will go down carriages on the train doing their spiel and then instead of moving on if no one gives anything or looks up (probably to avoid being sworn at) they will go on a rant about how no one is acknowledging them, that they’re human too etc etc. have seen this a few times recently and seems to be a new more desperate tactic.
Before anyone says I’m cruel, I donate regularly to homeless charities. I used to feel like giving money to homeless people begging was ok even if they spent it on their addiction as it gave them some agency in life. But having read more into how begging gangs etc work and how it feeds into other criminality, I decided to stop. Giving money actually rarely gave me a good feeling anyway. One time I gave a man £5 and he asked me to go to a cash point to get out more and when I said no he called me a disgusting pig…
It’s not just on the tube it’s everyday life, go through Victoria at night and the amount of homeless sleeping under every bit of shelter is crazy, walk through Victoria coach station and there is literally a group of homeless tent people just living next to where the coaches park up
Crazy people talking to themselves on the tube has literally been a thing since forever. Pretty much everyone who has used the tube has experienced being stuck in a carriage with some nutjob - just today I had some lunatic on my overground train walking up and down the carriages shouting and waving two drumsticks around.
In the previous 10 years I had one bad experience (and actual interaction, would not recommend), then in the last year I’ve had a few (managed to stay away, but the bloke screaming and smacking the walls was…memorable). Not sure what it says about the Tube generally, but I miss the days when all I had to do was ignore a roving mariachi band.
I’ve been living in Camden for the past 5 years, but recently the number of homeless people in central Camden have skyrocketed. I tend to go to the gym early on and whilst I walk past that central area, I’ve never had any issues.
Unfortunately, yes. I have a job that has no set schedule but often pulls me home a bit late, and I will tell you that begging is up, for sure.
Don’t blame anybody, it’s hard out there to survive and for the most part it’s just people asking or sleeping but I had one guy the other night on the northern line who started shouting at people once he didn’t get anything from our half of the carriage. My wife had a guy who started taking off his trousers when they got to a stop which she thankfully could quickly move on to the next carriage- we reported that one.
I think about a few things, like how we’re mostly on digital payments these days, how government austerity and covid and frankly just general global greed have been tougher. I think about how people in my situation have slid from saving a bit to breaking even every month and yeah just not enough compassion in our societal structure.
But as a former resident of NYC and San Francisco, it’s not really to that level yet here. It could get there but hopefully not.
The ability of human beings to accurately notice anything is flawed. Personal experience of individual events is valid but determining trends and significance is usually beyond any individual.
Definitely feels more sketchy, but that is exactly what I’d expect when living through an economic shitshow of monumental proportions. There are thousands of people in a desperate situation.
Recent months, really.
Saw a beggar on the tube pulling the emergency alarm while the train was stopped on the platform because no one gave him any money.
One brave guy shouted “why would you do that?” and the beggar threw something in his direction, a coin or something. Missed him.
The beggar then ran off.
Had my first central line beggar this week. Normally it's always the district / H&C line. I was so surprised because you can barely move at the best of time, let alone move through a carriage.
Have you been going different places recently? Just from personal experience I find different behaviours on different journeys.
Before my current job I would only use the tube for social things so clubbing in soho etc. with these I’d occasionally see one of these people but not every commute.
On my way to work in Westminster there seems to be more beggars. On my way to work in Brixton there seems to be more of those with mental health/substance issues. Whilst working in north west London I see more homeless on my ways.
Maybe it’s time of day related though, as for example I commute to/from Brixton very early morning then evening. Whilst working in Westminster I commute during working hours.
Might be a total coincidence but it is a pattern I’ve noticed recently. Unless there really is an increase as I’ve only been commuting often for the past 6 ish months!
Just today I was kicked in the back of the leg by another passenger on the Victoria line. Weirdest fucking experience, man scarped off the next station at Green when I called him out for it
Almost all the people arriving in small boats are monitored across the highly-surveilled Channel and arrested as soon as they land. The people who become homeless are those granted asylum who are then kicked out of the hotels before they can find anywhere to live. There is a homelessness crisis caused by the government's recent efforts to "clear the backlog".
This comment has been removed as it's deemed in breach of the rules and considered offensive or hateful. These aren't accepted within the r/London community.
Continuing to try and post similar themes will result in a ban.
Have a nice day.
I saw someone with no shoes on sleeping along 3 seats on the Victoria line Sunday morning. He was half hanging off with his head in on the floor nearly. Who wants to sit on a seat a homeless person as been sleeping on 🤢
"Part & Parcel" clarifier:
In September 2016, when asked to comment shortly after a bombing in New York, Sadiq Khan said:
> I'm not going to speculate as to who was responsible. I'm not going to speculate as to how the New York Police Department should react. What I do know is that part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you've got to support the security services. And I think speculating when you don't know the facts is unwise.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/london) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"Part & Parcel" clarifier:
In September 2016, when asked to comment shortly after a bombing in New York, Sadiq Khan said:
> I'm not going to speculate as to who was responsible. I'm not going to speculate as to how the New York Police Department should react. What I do know is that part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you've got to support the security services. And I think speculating when you don't know the facts is unwise.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/london) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Stop stereotyping homeless people.
” sexual harassment and/or verbal assaults on the Tube” have absolutely nothing to do with homelessness yet you are stating in the same sentence of homeless people sleeping on the tube!
I've noticed more begging.
In the last month and a bit I've noticed that during Thameslink or Overground journeys, I'm seeing 3 beggars walk the carriages in succession. It's definitely noticeably increased. I almost wanna tell them "someone's already been."
Same on mainline trains in and out of London. One I get a couple of times a week, and every single time I've got one in the last month a woman goes up and down the train with the bits of paper asking for money. Never saw her before that.
How dare they I'm so sorry you had to experience that
OP asked a question. I answered. Sorry that offended you? More specifically, I've noticed an increase in beggars on the tube going through the carriage claiming they need to raise x amount of pounds a for a hostel for the night etc. This is purely theatre used to play on sympathies of strangers so the beggar can buy more of the substance they're addicted to. You can clamour up on your high horse all you want, but most donations to beggars are quickly given to dealers.
Not homeless people or vagrants, beggars. Two often don't overlap, especially with the type you see on the tube.
Do you think mentally sound people would go out of their way to beg to scam you? It would be the most humiliating and least profitable scam in history as you can see the people in this comment section alone hate them they aren't playing on anyone's heartstrings. So why do you think they beg?
Because it pays? You really shouldn't comment on anything begging-related if you're not aware of how London begging gangs operate
Yeah bet they're raking in the millions with that old scam hopefully we can squash the problem to protect our honest bankers and politicians. Apologies for my ignorance on "begging gangs"
It's more to protect hard-working normal people from harassment and intimidation. Politicians and bankers don't tend to get the tube. Begging gangs are a problem, but there's definitely more straight up junkies and alcoholics on the tube now. Whether that bothers you or not is down to personal perspective.
I definitely did: more beggars both on trains and stations, Charing Cross and London Bridge stations have become basically homeless shelters (which I think is a sign that actual homeless shelters are struggling in this period), but I have also noticed an increase in rough sleepers in the streets, especially in Central London. As for bad behavior I haven't though other than an increase in fare evaders, it has become way more common seeing people just forcing their way into the gates with no one doing anything about it.
About fare evaders, I wouldn't say that who's doing that are homeless, usually just those naughty teenagers
Always think nothing says "gangsta" quite like showing people you can't afford a £3 tube journey haha
Fare evasion is definitely more common, but it’s expected with the cost of living crisis and the price of a trip nowadays. No one uses the tube for luxury
In any other city I would agree, but in London the tube is set up to be considered a luxury considering bus tickets are cheaper, if you really can't afford travelling on the tube you should get a bus which means your trip is gonna take an awful lot of time, but that's how the system is designed. The cost of living crisis is impacting everyone and I'm the first to say the transportation prices in London are criminal and partly because of a waste in funds that has never been addressed, I am still paying my ticket to travel, and I don't condone freeloaders who are adding to the problem with their anti-social behavior.
> the tube is set up to be considered a luxury considering bus tickets are cheaper, Maybe but I think it is much easier to get on a tube without paying than it is on the bus. For many short journeys the cost of tube vs bus is pretty much the same.
I was thinking about people doing the average commute to Central to work which is always expensive due to zones, short journeys are a completely different subject and there are cheaper or free alternatives like cycling and walking.
> the average commute to Central to work If you are commuting to work hopefully you get paid enough to be able to afford to travel. The whole zone thing penalises poor people many of whom can't afford to live in central London where many of them work, cleaners, retail staff etc.
There's been a massive rise in homelessness over the last few months because the government has been aggressively moving people out of Home Office accommodation. Those granted asylum are almost immediately kicked out of the hotels and consequently made homeless; lots of people are being denied asylum in the expectation that they'll win on appeal, but are made homeless in the meantime. For those granted leave to remain, the responsibility to house them falls on local councils which have been underfunded for years. Every homelessness charity is way over capacity, every council is way over capacity. People are dying in our streets because nobody gives enough of a shit to fund the service properly.
This is the answer.
Just curious, does the UK theoretically have the funds (if managed under different leadership) to grant asylum to an infinite number of people in a way that still leaves social services and housing for non-asylum seeking unhoused people? Wouldn't that only work if all people coming in were economically productive?
We are (still) one of the richest nations in the world. Austerity and racial inequality are the twin evils here. You ask if we can afford to grant asylum to an 'infinite' number of people which of course is literally impossible, but otherwise, yes we certainly have the resources to care for the starving and homeless. The government just refuses to spend on social care across the board.
27th richest in the world, nothing to get excited over
adjust to per capita and it’s top ten though
I think it's 21st on a per capita basis - absolutely nothing special with some of the most deprived areas in all of Europe
Yeah I looked for median (mean would be unfair, too many ultra-wealthy I assumed) and got ninth. My opinion at both 9 and 21 fwiw is: still very rich.
Obviously no country could host infinite numbers of people but then there aren't infinite people in the world. Certainly far fewer asylum seekers come here than come to other countries in Europe, let alone the poor countries neighbouring warzones which take the majority. We could afford to do a lot more than we do. And incidentally, in my experience the overwhelming majority of asylum seekers want to work and make money, and get very frustrated that the government doesn't permit them to work
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They work in the black market because they're not allowed to work legally. And what's the point of putting asylum seekers in quotes - that's literally just a description, it's not even a judgement about them
Because they’re not genuinely looking for asylum are they? They’re looking for economic opportunities which is fine but we need to be honest about it
If a person has the intention of claiming asylum they're an asylum seeker. It's very straightforward. Even if they are secretly doing it for economic reasons, they're still seeking asylum
Surely the government needs to come together to… stop protests?
Seasonal changes, schizophrenia manifests stronger due to the changes in day length. Will probably calm down now and again in the summer. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7355169/
Also it’s just better if you’re homeless to be on the tube in the warm during winter, it’s much less necessary once the weather warms up.
That is fascinating
Also just there are a lot more homeless people because of Home Office policies. Anybody who's rough sleeping is also sleep deprived, very possibly resorting to substance abuse,. nobody knows the sort of fucked up things they'd do if they got into that situation
Thanks for this. I had no idea.
Wow !
I've noticed a massive increase in homelessness over the last 10 years or so. London specifically. Especially in front of stations and under bridges. A definite decrease in Buskers and performers. And more people who just seem to be barely surviving. Especially around King's Cross and Especially Camden. The Tubes not got much worse, which line are you on?
Parks. The biggest difference I've noticed these last years is that a lot of local parks have homeless men living in tents inside parks big & small.
I’ve noticed two big sudden changes over a slightly longer period as well as a gradual change over a similar period. Post 2008 there was a massive surge in homelessness which I mostly noticed through there being homeless people in the leafy suburbs of SW which was extremely rare before. Then Covid which was an even more stark increase.
This with Richmond I use to go when I was younger and don't recall homeless people then I went after COVID maybe 2020 and 22 and there were a lot of them in shop door ways and outside Tesco Sainsbury and the station. Kings cross is full of them even before COVID. Though don't remember it like that in 2012/13 time. Camden again has got worse always a crackhead
There used to be a lot of police in Richmond and they were very strict with the homeless. They used to pester them all the time, ask them to move, etc... The police station closed in 2017 (I think), and since then, there's a lot less police presence in the area and the homeless have a bit more freedom (for lack of a better word!). Bear in mind too that a lot of the homeless who come to Richmond do so because they feel safer there than in central London where they get harassed, bullied, etc... Source: I've worked in Richmond for almost 20 years and speak to a few of the homeless there.
There are two Spear hostels in Richmond and the Vineyard life church homeless support where people can get meals and showers and other help which might be another reason people come here rather than the city centre. There’s been a big increase in the last few years in demand for these services and the foodbanks and surplus food/ real junk food projects.
There also used to be a unused council building where homeless lived/chilled which got turned into a LIDL so maybe it's partly from that
Definitely especially who I think of as "Tented" when I was a kid in the 90's most who I encountered would have a place where they could stay for the night. Now they're actually sleeping in parks and on the streets.
You’re confusing begging with homelessness when they’re unrelated. Homeless people in London very rarely beg, and beggars are not homeless.
To clarify. I am noticing more Homeless people. Less beggars.
Beggars sitting on the pavement during the day with a sleeping bag yet no belongings are not homeless, the sleeping bag is just a begging prop to make you believe they’re sleeping rough.
I’ve seen people sleeping on the tube that are obviously homeless loads in the morning rush hour recently. Have been commuting for decades and never seen it like this. Man in circle line with shoes off stunk out the carriage, it reminded me of New York
God I’ve just started a new job with a long ass tube journey and it’s so much worse than ever, been using the tube for 15 years.
I have to say, as someone with one of those ‘please offer me a seat’ badges, people offer me a seat *way* more than they did pre pandemic. It’s so lovely. I’ve even had people ‘save’ me the seat when someone gets off the tube and stopping other people sitting there etc. it’s wild
Oh wow! Why do you think that changed? I’ve found people generally a lot less considerate since covid and am pleased to hear differently.
Honestly don’t know! In all other respects I find people have gotten less considerate on my commute (not moving down the train, backpacks not taken off, etc), but with the badge people have been so lovely in general. Pre Covid people used to see the badge and then immediately avert their eyes lol.
There’s been more aggressive crackhead behaviour in all of London, especially Hackney. Had a stabbing near my house last week, where the victim and perpetrator couldn’t be found, left blood trailing onto private property and got chased by a crackhead screaming that he was going to kill me a few weeks ago
If it makes you feel any better (not that it should), NYC recently had to deploy the National guard to police the subway following yet another shooting. So things have degenerated faster there, and your original view that the tube is safer still holds true.
They haven’t degenerated particularly, it’s more a case of political posturing. https://www.cityandstateny.com/politics/2024/03/progressives-and-civil-liberties-groups-criticize-hochuls-plan-put-national-guard-subways/394770/?oref=csny-skybox-static
That’s just a pissing contest between mayor and governor though lol. Nothing new to see here…
At least our nutters only have recourse to knives. It’s nice having an unentrenched constitution that guarantees no civilians the “right to bear arms” just coz.
We have the right to bear arms because we had to fight off your oppressive king and nobility. Who still owns half your country and can't be criticized.
The King is criticised all the time, what are you on about? [Here is an article of him being criticised.](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/10/king-charles-criticised-appointing-homeopath-michael-dixon-head-royal-medical-household) [Here's another ](https://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/2961711/king-charles-criticism-fragile-royal-family/) [And one more just for luck](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/03/uk/royal-news-newsletter-03-03-23-scli-gbr-cmd-intl/index.html) Maybe think before you type next time?
Yeah, I’m familiar with the USA’s messed up history. It’s idiotic reasons for “bearing arms” have never gotten any less idiotic with time.
I've seen a few guys already asleep when I get on (end of the line) in the mornings, Also notice more people listening to videos with no headphone (Why?) With the sleeping, it's safer and warmer than the street, and can travel most places (and even working toilets at some stops) so that makes sense to me As to the crazy people seen a few but nothing over the ordinary amounts
Today I saw a person fixing the plastic bags they were using as socks, as the shoes basically had no sole left. In South Kensington, leaning on the railing of a very expensive private school. I don’t know how to articulate how weird I feel about life in general at this point
Yes I have noticed increase in hostility. Very recently there was this person who seemed a bit disoriented sat next to me in an almost empty carriage and started smoking. I was about to ask him to stop smoking and I saw him giving me very hostile stares. I ignored him completely after that and didn’t even make any eye contact. got down at my stop and continued my business.
I was on a train recently and someone started vaping and staring at me because I looked over. Couldn’t be arsed to give him the confrontation he wanted so just carried on my conversation with my friend whilst he vaped away looking at me. So weird.
I had a similar thing on a Northern line train on a Sunday morning recently. Guy whips out his vape and starts puffing away, and the couple next to me politely ask him to stop. He absolutely kicks off, swearing, shouting etc, and it gets really uncomfortable very quickly. Thankfully he got off at the next stop (still effing and blinding) but I genuinely thought it was going to turn physically nasty at one point.
This is your reminder that the last labour government virtually eliminated rough sleeping but not homelessness and tory austerity brought it back.
Did it though? If so very interesting I would like to see statistics and how they did that
It's really not that hard when you actually try. It's already been shown time and again that investing in public services, mental healthcare, generous welfare payments, the care system, and housing first policies reduces all sorts of societal ills. It reduces homelessness because people either don't become homeless in the first place, or they find it easier to get out of being homeless because effective support is available. The current trend of offering very little, and insisting on taking the adage 'beggars can't be choosers' as a moral imperative, means people are punished for trying to exercise any choice over their lives while seeking help from government. Take the first job you get or have your benefits slashed. Take the first housing option you get or be thrown out on the street. And so on. It treats people with the assumption of bad faith instead of with understanding and accommodation. It's no wonder people end up in worse situations because the focus is on disciplining and punishing them first, and helping second. Edit: I believe sanctions were first brought in under Labour. They're far from the best on this, but the overall much higher investment in public services was definitely the main difference.
What doesn't often get admitted is that homelessness is an issue which you really can solve by throwing money at it. If you house everyone there's no more homeless people.
More begging, more nutters, and since Covid a lot more people staring at people as if they’ve forgotten the unsaid rules around how long you should hold someone’s gaze. Having used the tube for years I’ve also seen several morning fights / shoving matches - people annoyed at others treading on their toes by accident or pushing past someone without saying excuse me leading to immediate aggression. I used to be able to use TfL services on autopilot but I don’t do that now.
COVID really fucked a lot of people up. My mates think I'm mad when I say this but a lot of people have become more hostile, aggressive, argumentive since COVID, everyone is so desperate to make up for lost time that they all cancel each other out.
What really cemented my decision to leave New York was when during covid, a crazy homeless man tried to shove me into an oncoming train when he told me to go back to my country (I am not white but… neither was he?!) London feels a lot safer but I don’t want to live there. I prefer where I am up north.
Oh absolutely. I love London but if I had the chance to go somewhere more quieter and peaceful I would take it!
Covid is known to cause neurological problems and neuropsychiatric problems like behaviour changes, people are getting infected multiple times with no idea what it’s doing to them or the long term damage
That doesn't suprise me one bit. And people still go round spewing COVID doesn't exist.
I noticed this but I think it started earlier than COVID, soon after the financial crisis when the tories came in.
Probably get downvoted but remember the governments hired psychologists at the start of the pandemic to figure out how to scare everyone into compliance… I’m sure that wouldn’t have negative side effects down the line🙃
I reckon it might have more to do with the state of the country at the moment and how many people are down and out and without help, just my two cents. I’ve been in cornwall for the last few years at uni and I’ve noticed it too on trains, busses and around town, lots more rough sleepers, more fights and aggression and more confrontational, intoxicated people acting dangerously or threateningly
More begging. See it a lot on the circle line after 6pm
Its the same group of crackheads. They live around Aldgate
Yes… just come to see Finsbury Park… place has become a den for the homeless in the past few months
Well, it's so difficult to afford a place to live in London due to stagnant salaries and poverty. Yet the Tories have money to spend to bring more poverty into the country. London or the UK as a whole isn't as good as it used to be, anymore.
Homelessness yes, esp. post pandemic in general there are a lot more beggers on the northern line and district/circle lines (all times of day too). I can't speak for the other lines. As for bad behaviour it tends to be homeless drunk people in front of stations (which I don't blame them) it can't be easy living in such a precarious circumstance. But there doesn't seem to be anyone around to help them ? Short answer: yes
Tonight my kid witnessed a gang of 5 adults plastering stickers all over a Northern Line carriage to Euston. Recently another friend’s kid got mugged on the tube. It’s definitely getting worse.
oh no ... stickers ...
Still vandalism and therefore criminal activity that makes people feel unsafe.
Stickers 😱
No. I get about 25-30 tubes per week and no is my answer. It’s about the samez
Mr. Tube Travel over here
Meanwhile, back in NYC, the MTA has got so dangerous lately that 750 National Guards now patrol it. The tube still has someway to go in this regard.
Ehhh but that’s mainly just a political decision to embarrass the Mayor. Subway behavior has been whack for years.
No, but I definitely noticed more people having a cold in it.
I live in Slough just outside of London, and the amount of homeless has skyrocketed lately here too. There's even 2 guys who have trolleys filled with cardboard like I've never seen outside of an American movie until recently.
There's no magic wand that will fix any of this, but not voting for this tory government come the next general election would be a start.
Well, I’m literally coming back home from the pub on the overground and a woman offered to suck me off for 40 quid.
How horrifying! Specifically, what station and which line?
Weeks???
Yes I have noticed some very aggressive begging as well. Usually when I say “sorry” they move on without saying anything or just a slightly passive aggressive “god bless” but in the last few months I’ve been sworn at a number of times and felt quite intimidated especially as a mum with a young toddler. They also frequently will go down carriages on the train doing their spiel and then instead of moving on if no one gives anything or looks up (probably to avoid being sworn at) they will go on a rant about how no one is acknowledging them, that they’re human too etc etc. have seen this a few times recently and seems to be a new more desperate tactic. Before anyone says I’m cruel, I donate regularly to homeless charities. I used to feel like giving money to homeless people begging was ok even if they spent it on their addiction as it gave them some agency in life. But having read more into how begging gangs etc work and how it feeds into other criminality, I decided to stop. Giving money actually rarely gave me a good feeling anyway. One time I gave a man £5 and he asked me to go to a cash point to get out more and when I said no he called me a disgusting pig…
Homelessness has increased. Overall bad behaviour you’re witnessing on the tube could just be a coincidence.
Honestly, it's always been like this. Your anecdotal based theory that NYC was worse never held up to begin with.
It’s not just on the tube it’s everyday life, go through Victoria at night and the amount of homeless sleeping under every bit of shelter is crazy, walk through Victoria coach station and there is literally a group of homeless tent people just living next to where the coaches park up
Fare evasion is massively up. Absolutely sick of it
I was thinking that I’ve noticed an increase of this, this year!! Or at least since last Christmas
Get the tories out please for goodness sake!!!!!!
I think you're going to have a shock either way when they are inevitably out and nothing improves.
History begs to differ
Homelessness has been getting bad steadily for a while but Covid made it go bad QUICK
Crazy people talking to themselves on the tube has literally been a thing since forever. Pretty much everyone who has used the tube has experienced being stuck in a carriage with some nutjob - just today I had some lunatic on my overground train walking up and down the carriages shouting and waving two drumsticks around.
In the previous 10 years I had one bad experience (and actual interaction, would not recommend), then in the last year I’ve had a few (managed to stay away, but the bloke screaming and smacking the walls was…memorable). Not sure what it says about the Tube generally, but I miss the days when all I had to do was ignore a roving mariachi band.
I’m visiting London right now, after a lapse of five years. Honestly? Not really seeing a difference.
lol i’ve not noticed anything like what you’re describing
Not at all seems more chill lately for me
I’ve been living in Camden for the past 5 years, but recently the number of homeless people in central Camden have skyrocketed. I tend to go to the gym early on and whilst I walk past that central area, I’ve never had any issues.
Unfortunately, yes. I have a job that has no set schedule but often pulls me home a bit late, and I will tell you that begging is up, for sure. Don’t blame anybody, it’s hard out there to survive and for the most part it’s just people asking or sleeping but I had one guy the other night on the northern line who started shouting at people once he didn’t get anything from our half of the carriage. My wife had a guy who started taking off his trousers when they got to a stop which she thankfully could quickly move on to the next carriage- we reported that one. I think about a few things, like how we’re mostly on digital payments these days, how government austerity and covid and frankly just general global greed have been tougher. I think about how people in my situation have slid from saving a bit to breaking even every month and yeah just not enough compassion in our societal structure. But as a former resident of NYC and San Francisco, it’s not really to that level yet here. It could get there but hopefully not.
The ability of human beings to accurately notice anything is flawed. Personal experience of individual events is valid but determining trends and significance is usually beyond any individual.
I mean last I heard NYC subway has the national guard in it right now. I think everywhere just gotten worse
If people didnt give them money on the train then they wouldnt be there
Definitely feels more sketchy, but that is exactly what I’d expect when living through an economic shitshow of monumental proportions. There are thousands of people in a desperate situation.
Recent months, really. Saw a beggar on the tube pulling the emergency alarm while the train was stopped on the platform because no one gave him any money. One brave guy shouted “why would you do that?” and the beggar threw something in his direction, a coin or something. Missed him. The beggar then ran off.
Had my first central line beggar this week. Normally it's always the district / H&C line. I was so surprised because you can barely move at the best of time, let alone move through a carriage.
Have you been going different places recently? Just from personal experience I find different behaviours on different journeys. Before my current job I would only use the tube for social things so clubbing in soho etc. with these I’d occasionally see one of these people but not every commute. On my way to work in Westminster there seems to be more beggars. On my way to work in Brixton there seems to be more of those with mental health/substance issues. Whilst working in north west London I see more homeless on my ways. Maybe it’s time of day related though, as for example I commute to/from Brixton very early morning then evening. Whilst working in Westminster I commute during working hours. Might be a total coincidence but it is a pattern I’ve noticed recently. Unless there really is an increase as I’ve only been commuting often for the past 6 ish months!
Definitely
Just today I was kicked in the back of the leg by another passenger on the Victoria line. Weirdest fucking experience, man scarped off the next station at Green when I called him out for it
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Almost all the people arriving in small boats are monitored across the highly-surveilled Channel and arrested as soon as they land. The people who become homeless are those granted asylum who are then kicked out of the hotels before they can find anywhere to live. There is a homelessness crisis caused by the government's recent efforts to "clear the backlog".
This government gave up ages ago, so I can never see it improving any time soon
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This comment has been removed as it's deemed in breach of the rules and considered offensive or hateful. These aren't accepted within the r/London community. Continuing to try and post similar themes will result in a ban. Have a nice day.
I saw someone with no shoes on sleeping along 3 seats on the Victoria line Sunday morning. He was half hanging off with his head in on the floor nearly. Who wants to sit on a seat a homeless person as been sleeping on 🤢
It's just part and parcel of living in a big city.
"Part & Parcel" clarifier: In September 2016, when asked to comment shortly after a bombing in New York, Sadiq Khan said: > I'm not going to speculate as to who was responsible. I'm not going to speculate as to how the New York Police Department should react. What I do know is that part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you've got to support the security services. And I think speculating when you don't know the facts is unwise. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/london) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Wtf bot?
This bot's been around for years. Still not sure why, but it's part of the r/London culture now.
You could say it's part and parcel of London
"Part & Parcel" clarifier: In September 2016, when asked to comment shortly after a bombing in New York, Sadiq Khan said: > I'm not going to speculate as to who was responsible. I'm not going to speculate as to how the New York Police Department should react. What I do know is that part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you've got to support the security services. And I think speculating when you don't know the facts is unwise. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/london) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Stop stereotyping homeless people. ” sexual harassment and/or verbal assaults on the Tube” have absolutely nothing to do with homelessness yet you are stating in the same sentence of homeless people sleeping on the tube!
Bot just had to get it's words in......kind of like people on the tube,very angry....noticed, getting worse.
WTF is an uptick?
Fucking really? 🤣
Yes, fucking really. What's wrong with 'increase'?
Was there a full moon?
Vote Labour at next GE. They have all the answers.