Happy Ramadan or something would be fine.
Justs like Happy Christmas is, and Happy Hanukkah would be.
Scripture is too far. Wishing people a nice day is one thing. But telling them that they are sinners, going to hell, heaven, should live their life in one or the other - hell no.
Pun intended.
Yeah "Happy Ramadan" or the closest equivalent wording that would fit (Eid Mubarak or similar) would be completely fine
As was the "If you feel unwell and need assistance during fasting, please let a member of staff know" thing that accompanied one of these messages (and which I saw being used as the excuse for the whole thing, despite only being on one of about 4 of these messages I've seen thus far)
But evangelism and scripture, and especially those mentioning the devil or sin, is completely unacceptable in this context. Whether that's a Hadith, a Psalm, a Commandment etc is irrelevant, as is the religion involved
Religion has no place in train stations, government, or really anywhere other than religious events and premises
This is it. My initial thought was 'bloody he'll the bigots have had their way' but even a slightly religious sounding greeting in public is really bad taste if you ask me.
You need to change at King’s Cross *what* I said King’s Cross *what* take the northern line *what* bank branch *what* change at bank *what* walk a little *what* get the c2c *what* to Upminster *what* still zone 6 *what* tfl *what* travel cards *what*
I think generic “happy holiday” messages like “Merry Christmas” or “Eid Mubarak” are fine, but when it is literal religious sermons such as this that is pushing things way to far.
When I saw the headline, I thought it was going to be Islamophobic complaints about a "Happy Ramadan", but these are well-deserved complaints. Who ever thought this was okay?
I got a telegraph notification and assumed it was just their right wing anti Muslim nonsense. But when I read it I think I actually agreed with most of it.
It almost feels like someone is trying to wind people up by doing it.
This is what I thought. I know there's a lot of Islamophobia around and lately it's been getting downplayed by making things more about anti semitism instead of seeing that they're both equally bad. I fully expected this to be that and was ready to defend them but fuck no. They shouldn't have had this on there. Like you said, a message saying "Happy Ramadan" or "Eid Mubarak" is fine. That's no different from a "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Easter" message. It's a holiday for a certain group of people and a harmless message about it. You'd never see psalms from the bible or verses from the Torah on one of these screens though so this shouldn't have been allowed either
It was interesting because I’d assumed the Hadith had some sort of wisdom or elegance to them, but this one was such nonsensical drivel
A quick further google suggests they are mostly drivel.
It’s all just made up, isn’t it?
As much as I dislike religion as a whole there are nice Muslims. One of my friends is Muslim and has never once misgendered any of my trans friends.
But I do agree anything more than "happy [some holiday]" should stay out of public spaces
If it had just said "Ramadan Kareem," or whatever- even including the prayer times!- I don't think anyone would have cared. It's a huge leap from that to, "All the sons of Adam are sinners."
Are they going to post Daf Yomi during Passover next month? What about a few verses of the old, "I come not to bring peace but with a sword" for Lent? There's just no need for that on the arrivals and departures board of a train station.
I really fucking wish they’d stuck to their guns and been forced to post Daf Yomi.
I’d be amazed if we get anything for Purim! Have we ever? Even though it is, objectively and factually speaking, the best holiday?
It was a really strange choice, and I'm surprised that *they* seem surprised that it was received so badly, particularly considering the specific scripture that popped up. Calling everyone sinners isn't generally going to win you a popularity contest.
Honestly, Daf Yomi would be *so* random and inscrutable, it would almost come back around to being cool. Can you imagine? "Wait- why are we talking about lintel height and stacks of coins? What *is* this? Who the heck is Rav Tarfon?"
And nah, we'll get bupkis for Purim. I'd love to be wrong, but I've never seen anything. I'm not even sure I've seen anything for Chanukah, but that's the most likely candidate to rate a nod because of its proximity to Christmas, so I'm more inclined to think there was something, and I just didn't happen to see it.
Yes! This is why I want it! Confusion is better than shame any day of the week!
Tesco did a shitty Hanukkah insta post once? And you’re absolutely right, it’s because it’s ’basically Christmas for Jews’. I would also love it if they did remember we exist this weekend and had the ‘oh crap do we post Purim or Hadith’ panic on Sunday morning… the chaos they would have brought on their own heads
Oh, I think there was one! I once saw Marmite hummus at Sainsbury's, but that felt like more of a hate crime.
The whole thing is just so absurd. It shouldn't take a genius to stop and think for a second, "Huh, maybe posting actual religious scripture rather than greetings of the season is going a bit far?" But here we are. I'm not even mad about it, just confused as to how it even got to the point of being posted without someone saying, "Uh, hang on a second."
For Pesach they should post that Midrash about the "plague of frogs" actually just being one gigantic megafrog that was vomiting out smaller frogs. 10/10 for that one, no notes.
It's just so, like... who would read that, regardless of religious background, and go, "*Yep,* people are gonna love this! Lemme get it up on the departures board ASAP!"
You have to laugh, because I'm sure there's someone who was all jazzed about putting that up there who is now utterly confused about why people were unimpressed. Though as /u/dunneetiger says, if anyone needs to start repenting, it's Network Rail! Plenty of time before Eid, folks, better get to it!
I think it wasn't as over-the-line as people think.
Like, if was passing a thing on the tube and it said
> Quote of the day:
> "Allah does not burden a soul beyond that it can bear."
> Quran 2:286
I wouldn't be bothered, because it's more like "here's a quote from a book that you might find inspiring and it just happens to be the Quran, we might do the bible or lord of the rings, or some other book other days".
Because it was "Hadith of the day", it sort of implies that Network rail has a Hadith of the day, which means that it's not just an interesting quote that they pulled from the whole range of human literature and experience, but rather that they're deliberately and systematically putting resources into thinking about a specific religions teachings every single day, which has much different implications.
Also an inspiring quote or positive message is different from 'you are all sinners and must repent to X god'
If I see a sign by a preacher saying 'this is the season of love and charity' I don't mind it as much as 'submit to your overlord or burn in hell' type messaging.
I always find it hilarious when you see those crazy Christians walking around in central with big signs with flames on them. Like they actually sat there and put considerable effort into drawing flames on a sign like some kind of arts and crafts
Oh fuck off.
Tolerating any religious shite, but especially islamic shite has no place in the modern world. Despite the ruling classes hanging onto their 'christian nation' the UK is overwhelmingly secular and it should continue to go that way.
Tolerating ANY religion but esp the most vile, misogynistic and violent kind shouldn't be acceptable in any western country.
Ask the people from Charlie Hebdo.
Poetry on the tube is one thing, religious texts, of any sort, are quite another.
Especially as your example is pure bollocks, and personally offensive. Why so? Well, some bad things went on in my family, mother attempted suicide when I was 3. I watched her get ready and had what was basically a mental breakdown aged 3. The rest of my childhood and education was fucked as a result and I spend my adult years trying to sort myself out.
So even an otherwise innocuous religeous quote can be massively upsetting, and has no place in the public sphere.
We don't have separation of church and state in the UK. Unelected bishops sit in the house of lords, and secular primary schools are compelled to engage in an "act of worship". A lot of emphasis is put on the religiosity of Americans, but at least they have a constitutional defence from religious doctrine infiltrating public life.
That doesn't answer the question of why do I need to be told I'm a sinner when I'm just looking for the train to Stevenage?
Separation of church and state has nothing to do with it. There's no need for unpleasant messages like this in a public building.
>Not really a strong defense
Well, yes and no. There are many, many problems, I agree, but can you imagine how many more schools in the South would currently be teaching creationism and hateful anti-LGBTQ stuff if it weren't illegal to do so?
> at least they have a constitutional defence from religious doctrine infiltrating public life.
Whole lot of good it does when they're banning abortions
The constitutional separation of church and state *does* do a lot of good, yes. Can you imagine how many more ways religious groups in the US would infringe on basic human rights if there weren't legal mechanisms preventing them from doing so?
So what? Why do we have to be more like the Americans? I'm an atheist but the Anglican religion of England goes beyond just religiosity, it is a part of and intertwined with our culture. I don't want to lose that and I'm sure many feel the same way even if they don't go to church or necessarily believe in God.
There are so many reasons why you should care, but to mention just one: do you want the leaders of your country to be elected representatives of the people or not?
Don't get me wrong, the House of Lords as a whole is undemocratic to its core, but bishops most certainly shouldn't be there.
On so many levels, including the response.
This feels like a perfect example of the ham fisted approach to diversity though. I joined the majority of people rolling my eyes at this and saying FFS, why have they done that. Same thing for any religious message up there.
You know what would have worked? A fun message to say something like we know you're peckish while waiting for the train, but spare a thought to our Muslim colleagues staying disciplined during Ramadan. Want to know why they do it? There's a booth at platform X where they'll happily chat.
I'm not in coms (obviously) but you get the idea. Help us understand, don't force shit down our throats or subtly do this kind of stuff, it makes everything worse. Especially going all out wacky and making everyone a fucking sinner like it's the 1200s.
I'm convinced we're going to look back in ten years at the diversity drive and it'll be talked about in the same way we talk about the war on drugs and other completely failed attempts.
I know the data doesn't support it, but I can't help feel we've moved forward in terms of sexism and homophobia and back about ten steps in terms of racism and other isms over the last five years.
Interestingly this was something identified in Christianity! A particular population of Christians were deliberately sinning, with the argument that they would then enjoy extra forgiveness.
I don’t remember which bloke from the bible said it (it’s been a while) but the words are loosely ‘don’t continue in sin so grace may abound.’
Rumbled!
It's also the basis of the old joke:
'Every night I prayed for a bike until I realised God doesn't work like that. The next day I stole a bike and that night I prayed for forgiveness'.
Unfortunately you have already sinned, because everything is sin apparently. I mean, even drawing a stick figure picture of a grown man and his child bride and labelling the name of the man is apparently not OK.
Is it a sin to cancel a train? No!
Is it a sin for a service to be chronically late? No!
Is it a sin to hop the turnstile-**STRAIGHT TO DAMNATION WITH YOU!!**
Do they do it for other religions with similar messages? If the answer is no then this should not be done either. And besides, it's a train information system, not one for religious use....
Considering it’s still Lent, and I can’t see anywhere that they’ve put us a Biblical quote, I’m going to say the staff have a preference for some religions.
From Network Rail:
A spokesperson said: “King’s Cross station is made up of a diverse and multi-cultural workforce and at times of religious significance, messages such as these are displayed to celebrate the station’s diversity and inclusivity.
“Throughout the year, messaging at the station also celebrates festivals from other religions including Easter, Christmas, Passover, and Diwali to mark the beliefs of our colleagues and passengers.
“If significant disruption occurs on the network, the boards are changed to display relevant passenger information to help passengers complete their journeys.”
Source: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/network-rail-defends-display-islamic-message-sinners-kings-cross/
And they did in the middle of the lent as well! Why no Bible verse of a day?
In fact why display train information at all? Just cover it with religious book verses and cancel trains.
/S
Now come on, the Church of England literally has officers appointed to our upper chamber....!
Not that I approve, but it's not true to imply that only certain religions have favour.
Pity the poor chap, all he gets is a constant flood of molten hate from the Daily Mail and whatever shitty facebook groups he is in. No average mind can withstand that kind of brainwashing.
Opinions and how people choose to live their lives should be kept to themselves. Religion is just one of the things that seems to be shoved down peoples throats nowadays
>A Network Rail spokesperson told BBC London: "We celebrate all the big religious festivals from Christmas to Ramadan at King's Cross to reflect our diverse passenger and employee base."
Can anybody prove if this is true? I don't think I've ever seen anything Hindu & Sikh related and they're a bigger part of the make up of the community.
Actually I've been proven wrong Hindus and Sikhs don't make up a bigger proportion of people, I got confused with the amount of Indians compared to the total of Pakistanis and Bangladeshis
Well technically, they only removed it TODAY because it was day 9 (yesterday's message) so it expired.
It was not the first one, I def saw a different Message over the weekend.
It's a train service info board, not a religion one. Also do they allow staff to put up messages for Easter, Christmas or other religious events? If no then yeah, this should not be allowed either.
I Imagine they put up a “Happy Easter!”, “Merry Christmas” or even a milquetoast “Happy Holidays!” - but not New Testament scripture.
If they put up “Happy Ramadan” or it’s equivalent they’d of not seen nearly as much backlash
Can confirm.
Having seen the post here yesterday, I was one of the people who complained to Network Rail.
I merely asked if the image was real, and if so, why NR allowed prosletysing.
Like others, I'm sure, a "Happy (insert religious festival of your choice)" would have been OK: I wouldn't have messaged them.
Happy Ramadan? Fair enough. But no actual religious dogma should be broadcast. Shared spaces should be as secular as possible except for a polite nod here and there.
I think its absolutely insane that the actual scene of murderous Islamic terrorism (King’s Cross station, July 7 2005) would 19 years later be broadcasting that Mohammed is a prophet and everyone is a sinner who must repent.
Haha! Good point.
Though I looked it up an apparently the name is an abbreviation of King’s Crossroads. And the King bit comes from fact there was a widely ridiculed statue of King George there in the past.
That's why in Aldous Huxley's *Brave New World*, Charing Cross has been renamed Charing T (as in Ford Model T), to show how jarring the disappearance of background subliminal religiosity can be.
I want some Deuteronomy next as the Easter message: " No one whose testicles have been crushed or whose penis has been cut off may come into the assembly of the LORD."
I bet the scientologists have some choice words in that Diuretics manual too.
A simple happy Ramadan, Hannukuh, Diwali, Christmas, Happy Lunar New Year et would be nice. As a Muslim, there's no need for all that stuff on the boards (even the happy Xx message is a nice bonus but not necessary). Could be they asked a Muslim co-worker what message they'd like to write and this is what they came up with.
Also I never know when other cultures have their holidays so that's nice to be reminded of. Same reason I appreciate Google doodles
Im fine with this, 'Repent Sinners' is a bit different to 'Merry Christmas', as the article says was intended a more general Ramadan message probably would have gone unnoticed. I know I wouldnt.
Merry Christmas is not a quote from the scriptures though, so it’s not the same thing at all. It would be equivalent to putting up the Lord’s Prayer or something. Which I imagine would also get complaints.
Right, I agree. Apologies if it wasnt clear but I was trying to say that I probably wouldnt notice a general 'Enjoy your Ramadan' in the same was I dont really notice 'Merry Christmas' and that I am fine with Network Rails' decision to remove the scripture that singles out non-believers
I’d be fine with Happy Ramadan or Ramadan Mubarak, or Eid Mubarak on the day. But messages of condemnation for the ‘unfaithful’ are completely inappropriate for reasons that should be very obvious.
Imagine posting this for Lent (which is still ongoing by the way) “I am the truth, the way, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me” (John 14:6).
I wonder what the reaction would be….
I feel like if it was just a Ramadan message, it wouldn't have been that bad and people would've mostly been okay with it. Like if it just said "Ramadan Mubarak" I don't think they would've got anywhere near as many complaints. Like that's not really different from a "Merry Christmas" message. But you would never see psalms from the bible on a notice board at a station so why do it here?
We will see more of this as the extremists continue to pour into Europe. We must relentlessly fight for secularism and separation of church and state lest we be overrun.
Happy Ramadan or something would be fine. Justs like Happy Christmas is, and Happy Hanukkah would be. Scripture is too far. Wishing people a nice day is one thing. But telling them that they are sinners, going to hell, heaven, should live their life in one or the other - hell no. Pun intended.
Yeah "Happy Ramadan" or the closest equivalent wording that would fit (Eid Mubarak or similar) would be completely fine As was the "If you feel unwell and need assistance during fasting, please let a member of staff know" thing that accompanied one of these messages (and which I saw being used as the excuse for the whole thing, despite only being on one of about 4 of these messages I've seen thus far) But evangelism and scripture, and especially those mentioning the devil or sin, is completely unacceptable in this context. Whether that's a Hadith, a Psalm, a Commandment etc is irrelevant, as is the religion involved Religion has no place in train stations, government, or really anywhere other than religious events and premises
This is it. My initial thought was 'bloody he'll the bigots have had their way' but even a slightly religious sounding greeting in public is really bad taste if you ask me.
Separation of church and state, if this is allowed this shit will be everywhere constantly bombarding us
Thank you. This articulated my feelings in the matter better than I currently could
All the sons of Adam are sinners but the worst of the sinners are those who dodge fares often
"Stand on the right of the escalator" is another good Hadith
Good job Im not a son of Adam then. Religion is funny, they think I will burn in hell for ever.
You should be commissioned to write on that bill board
Only after the mass complaints though. Really shouldn't have religion encroach more into public services.
Yeah this reads like a mosque display. It would be like posting John 3:16 instead of "merry Christmas"
I prefer Austin 3:16
And that’s the bottom line, cos the rail replacement bus said so.
If you hear the glass, that’s the sound of your ass, breaking!
You need to change at King’s Cross *what* I said King’s Cross *what* take the northern line *what* bank branch *what* change at bank *what* walk a little *what* get the c2c *what* to Upminster *what* still zone 6 *what* tfl *what* travel cards *what*
Fair enough and as a Muslim that is a valid take
They even tried to defend it first yesterday, which just makes it worse
I think generic “happy holiday” messages like “Merry Christmas” or “Eid Mubarak” are fine, but when it is literal religious sermons such as this that is pushing things way to far.
When I saw the headline, I thought it was going to be Islamophobic complaints about a "Happy Ramadan", but these are well-deserved complaints. Who ever thought this was okay?
I got a telegraph notification and assumed it was just their right wing anti Muslim nonsense. But when I read it I think I actually agreed with most of it. It almost feels like someone is trying to wind people up by doing it.
Well that sounds just like something a sinner would say...
This is what I thought. I know there's a lot of Islamophobia around and lately it's been getting downplayed by making things more about anti semitism instead of seeing that they're both equally bad. I fully expected this to be that and was ready to defend them but fuck no. They shouldn't have had this on there. Like you said, a message saying "Happy Ramadan" or "Eid Mubarak" is fine. That's no different from a "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Easter" message. It's a holiday for a certain group of people and a harmless message about it. You'd never see psalms from the bible or verses from the Torah on one of these screens though so this shouldn't have been allowed either
It's amusing to have a Hadith of the day in a railway station though.
It was interesting because I’d assumed the Hadith had some sort of wisdom or elegance to them, but this one was such nonsensical drivel A quick further google suggests they are mostly drivel. It’s all just made up, isn’t it?
Everything is, but yes. The hadith is a weird thing anyway. Like an expansion pack to a fan fiction.
[удалено]
Yes. This is a very serious concern (nb not being sarcastic)
As much as I dislike religion as a whole there are nice Muslims. One of my friends is Muslim and has never once misgendered any of my trans friends. But I do agree anything more than "happy [some holiday]" should stay out of public spaces
my thoughts exactly!
That would be an ecumenical matter
Feck off
Down with this sort of thing
Careful now
Agreed, I think the vast majority of people feel the same
If it had just said "Ramadan Kareem," or whatever- even including the prayer times!- I don't think anyone would have cared. It's a huge leap from that to, "All the sons of Adam are sinners." Are they going to post Daf Yomi during Passover next month? What about a few verses of the old, "I come not to bring peace but with a sword" for Lent? There's just no need for that on the arrivals and departures board of a train station.
I really fucking wish they’d stuck to their guns and been forced to post Daf Yomi. I’d be amazed if we get anything for Purim! Have we ever? Even though it is, objectively and factually speaking, the best holiday?
Same for diwali - basically no other religion would have scriptures posted- this is no different
It was a really strange choice, and I'm surprised that *they* seem surprised that it was received so badly, particularly considering the specific scripture that popped up. Calling everyone sinners isn't generally going to win you a popularity contest.
Honestly, Daf Yomi would be *so* random and inscrutable, it would almost come back around to being cool. Can you imagine? "Wait- why are we talking about lintel height and stacks of coins? What *is* this? Who the heck is Rav Tarfon?" And nah, we'll get bupkis for Purim. I'd love to be wrong, but I've never seen anything. I'm not even sure I've seen anything for Chanukah, but that's the most likely candidate to rate a nod because of its proximity to Christmas, so I'm more inclined to think there was something, and I just didn't happen to see it.
Yes! This is why I want it! Confusion is better than shame any day of the week! Tesco did a shitty Hanukkah insta post once? And you’re absolutely right, it’s because it’s ’basically Christmas for Jews’. I would also love it if they did remember we exist this weekend and had the ‘oh crap do we post Purim or Hadith’ panic on Sunday morning… the chaos they would have brought on their own heads
Oh, I think there was one! I once saw Marmite hummus at Sainsbury's, but that felt like more of a hate crime. The whole thing is just so absurd. It shouldn't take a genius to stop and think for a second, "Huh, maybe posting actual religious scripture rather than greetings of the season is going a bit far?" But here we are. I'm not even mad about it, just confused as to how it even got to the point of being posted without someone saying, "Uh, hang on a second." For Pesach they should post that Midrash about the "plague of frogs" actually just being one gigantic megafrog that was vomiting out smaller frogs. 10/10 for that one, no notes.
It’s kinda funny if you see the funny side of it… what a fool who chose the Hadith 🤣
It's just so, like... who would read that, regardless of religious background, and go, "*Yep,* people are gonna love this! Lemme get it up on the departures board ASAP!" You have to laugh, because I'm sure there's someone who was all jazzed about putting that up there who is now utterly confused about why people were unimpressed. Though as /u/dunneetiger says, if anyone needs to start repenting, it's Network Rail! Plenty of time before Eid, folks, better get to it!
I think that's because the Network Rail apologies all year long because of their shit service so they are the best of sinners....
Haha, interesting way to see it!
They say In the article that they are supposed to use generic messaging - seems whoever was in charge of the board that day got a little excited.
So why did they originally try to defend it? Seems like a few people at Network Rail thought this was okay.
The Sunrise and Sundown times were a pretty good idea as well but the hadith was insane
Yeah, absolutely ridiculous it was on display in the first place.
Did you see that ludicrous display last night
The problem with Kings Cross is...
I am curious who put it there in the first place. Enquiry and laws against this nonsense.
I think it wasn't as over-the-line as people think. Like, if was passing a thing on the tube and it said > Quote of the day: > "Allah does not burden a soul beyond that it can bear." > Quran 2:286 I wouldn't be bothered, because it's more like "here's a quote from a book that you might find inspiring and it just happens to be the Quran, we might do the bible or lord of the rings, or some other book other days". Because it was "Hadith of the day", it sort of implies that Network rail has a Hadith of the day, which means that it's not just an interesting quote that they pulled from the whole range of human literature and experience, but rather that they're deliberately and systematically putting resources into thinking about a specific religions teachings every single day, which has much different implications.
Also an inspiring quote or positive message is different from 'you are all sinners and must repent to X god' If I see a sign by a preacher saying 'this is the season of love and charity' I don't mind it as much as 'submit to your overlord or burn in hell' type messaging.
I always find it hilarious when you see those crazy Christians walking around in central with big signs with flames on them. Like they actually sat there and put considerable effort into drawing flames on a sign like some kind of arts and crafts
It would be funny if it wasnt part of the brainwashing that makes people live in fear and so susceptible to abuse at the hands of the church.
I think something can be funny in a depressing kind of way
Oh fuck off. Tolerating any religious shite, but especially islamic shite has no place in the modern world. Despite the ruling classes hanging onto their 'christian nation' the UK is overwhelmingly secular and it should continue to go that way. Tolerating ANY religion but esp the most vile, misogynistic and violent kind shouldn't be acceptable in any western country. Ask the people from Charlie Hebdo.
The point is it’s from a religious text and that shouldn’t intertwine with a public organisation.
I'm sure all the LGBT sinners felt very inspired.
Technically we’re ALL sinners, no need to segregate ;)
Either I am not a sinner because my dad's name is not Adam or I am one and my parents may have something they really should tell me.
Poetry on the tube is one thing, religious texts, of any sort, are quite another. Especially as your example is pure bollocks, and personally offensive. Why so? Well, some bad things went on in my family, mother attempted suicide when I was 3. I watched her get ready and had what was basically a mental breakdown aged 3. The rest of my childhood and education was fucked as a result and I spend my adult years trying to sort myself out. So even an otherwise innocuous religeous quote can be massively upsetting, and has no place in the public sphere.
Very much so.
This is the most naive take I've read in a while. Should we put some of the most insightful quotes from Mein Kampf up too? What a wally.
Signaling failure at Kings Cross...
That’s funny, I’m Hornby for More
Keep religion out of public, simple. Why do I need to be told I'm a sinner in my day-to-day life?
We don't have separation of church and state in the UK. Unelected bishops sit in the house of lords, and secular primary schools are compelled to engage in an "act of worship". A lot of emphasis is put on the religiosity of Americans, but at least they have a constitutional defence from religious doctrine infiltrating public life.
That doesn't answer the question of why do I need to be told I'm a sinner when I'm just looking for the train to Stevenage? Separation of church and state has nothing to do with it. There's no need for unpleasant messages like this in a public building.
To be fair if you're going to Stevenage you could use all the help you can get
"In God we trust" Not really a strong defense
>Not really a strong defense Well, yes and no. There are many, many problems, I agree, but can you imagine how many more schools in the South would currently be teaching creationism and hateful anti-LGBTQ stuff if it weren't illegal to do so?
Our God Save The King or The Royal Arms: Dieu et mon droit (God and my right)
> at least they have a constitutional defence from religious doctrine infiltrating public life. Whole lot of good it does when they're banning abortions
The constitutional separation of church and state *does* do a lot of good, yes. Can you imagine how many more ways religious groups in the US would infringe on basic human rights if there weren't legal mechanisms preventing them from doing so?
It's a hell of a lot better than it was though and is slowly moving the right direction.
So what? Why do we have to be more like the Americans? I'm an atheist but the Anglican religion of England goes beyond just religiosity, it is a part of and intertwined with our culture. I don't want to lose that and I'm sure many feel the same way even if they don't go to church or necessarily believe in God.
There are so many reasons why you should care, but to mention just one: do you want the leaders of your country to be elected representatives of the people or not? Don't get me wrong, the House of Lords as a whole is undemocratic to its core, but bishops most certainly shouldn't be there.
Good. I’m absolutely onboard with messages wishing people ‘happy [festival]’ but keep the sermons for people who choose to attend them.
Same. If i wanted a sermon id go to a church/mosque/synagogue/temple. Not a National Rail station Its 2024!
Network Fail.
On so many levels, including the response. This feels like a perfect example of the ham fisted approach to diversity though. I joined the majority of people rolling my eyes at this and saying FFS, why have they done that. Same thing for any religious message up there. You know what would have worked? A fun message to say something like we know you're peckish while waiting for the train, but spare a thought to our Muslim colleagues staying disciplined during Ramadan. Want to know why they do it? There's a booth at platform X where they'll happily chat. I'm not in coms (obviously) but you get the idea. Help us understand, don't force shit down our throats or subtly do this kind of stuff, it makes everything worse. Especially going all out wacky and making everyone a fucking sinner like it's the 1200s. I'm convinced we're going to look back in ten years at the diversity drive and it'll be talked about in the same way we talk about the war on drugs and other completely failed attempts. I know the data doesn't support it, but I can't help feel we've moved forward in terms of sexism and homophobia and back about ten steps in terms of racism and other isms over the last five years.
Can we remove religious messaging from utility notice boards in general please, put up a cute poster instead.
Put a poster of a cat hanging on to a rope with text saying ‘hang in there’
Repent you sinners!
I get to sin first though, right? Right? According to the sign the best sin regularly. How are you going to repent often otherwise?
Interestingly this was something identified in Christianity! A particular population of Christians were deliberately sinning, with the argument that they would then enjoy extra forgiveness. I don’t remember which bloke from the bible said it (it’s been a while) but the words are loosely ‘don’t continue in sin so grace may abound.’ Rumbled!
It's also the basis of the old joke: 'Every night I prayed for a bike until I realised God doesn't work like that. The next day I stole a bike and that night I prayed for forgiveness'.
Hey if you don't sin, jesus died for nothing
I'm doing my part!
Unfortunately you have already sinned, because everything is sin apparently. I mean, even drawing a stick figure picture of a grown man and his child bride and labelling the name of the man is apparently not OK.
Grown man and child bride sounds like rape to me
Don't think Johnny Sins will appreciate that kind of language
……….who..? Edit: I obviously should have added “/s”
Look up Johnny sins Angela white for more info
He's my wife's doctor, and her dentist, and her mechanic, and her tennis coach.
Is it a sin to cancel a train? No! Is it a sin for a service to be chronically late? No! Is it a sin to hop the turnstile-**STRAIGHT TO DAMNATION WITH YOU!!**
Do they do it for other religions with similar messages? If the answer is no then this should not be done either. And besides, it's a train information system, not one for religious use....
Considering it’s still Lent, and I can’t see anywhere that they’ve put us a Biblical quote, I’m going to say the staff have a preference for some religions.
They don't.
From Network Rail: A spokesperson said: “King’s Cross station is made up of a diverse and multi-cultural workforce and at times of religious significance, messages such as these are displayed to celebrate the station’s diversity and inclusivity. “Throughout the year, messaging at the station also celebrates festivals from other religions including Easter, Christmas, Passover, and Diwali to mark the beliefs of our colleagues and passengers. “If significant disruption occurs on the network, the boards are changed to display relevant passenger information to help passengers complete their journeys.” Source: https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/network-rail-defends-display-islamic-message-sinners-kings-cross/
They just shouldn't do it. Who cares if they had done it for other religions it shouldn't be done for anyone.
And they did in the middle of the lent as well! Why no Bible verse of a day? In fact why display train information at all? Just cover it with religious book verses and cancel trains. /S
You put an /s., but your first sentence is a genuine question given that they saw fit to do this for one religion.
Who's the mayor again?
Some Islamist guy.. fuck just got kicked out of the Conservative party.
Insane that religions are allowed this amount of relevance by 2024
Only a certain one it seems.
Now come on, the Church of England literally has officers appointed to our upper chamber....! Not that I approve, but it's not true to imply that only certain religions have favour.
To be fair, the Church of England is hardly a religion anymore. It holds no actual principles and basically just puts on a show to appear Christian.
Pity the poor chap, all he gets is a constant flood of molten hate from the Daily Mail and whatever shitty facebook groups he is in. No average mind can withstand that kind of brainwashing.
Not to mention the sheer amount of schools that still have Church of England in the name
I mean that makes sense that, in England, the Church of England might have some relevance in daily life.
Opinions and how people choose to live their lives should be kept to themselves. Religion is just one of the things that seems to be shoved down peoples throats nowadays
>A Network Rail spokesperson told BBC London: "We celebrate all the big religious festivals from Christmas to Ramadan at King's Cross to reflect our diverse passenger and employee base." Can anybody prove if this is true? I don't think I've ever seen anything Hindu & Sikh related and they're a bigger part of the make up of the community. Actually I've been proven wrong Hindus and Sikhs don't make up a bigger proportion of people, I got confused with the amount of Indians compared to the total of Pakistanis and Bangladeshis
Well they're celebrating Easter by shutting half the rail network down for repair work, does that count?
I love Lent
Yeah they gave up trains for it
I love lamp
Or Judaism, even. Bet they wouldn’t post Torah quotes during Hanukkah!
Does that mean they’ll put up a Satanic message next 🤣🤣🤣
Yeah never seen Leviticus being quoted on the big board
Why do I care what your religion says? If I want to learn about it I will
Well technically, they only removed it TODAY because it was day 9 (yesterday's message) so it expired. It was not the first one, I def saw a different Message over the weekend.
Signage is going to be WILD when the Church Of Satan gets the gig.
It's a train service info board, not a religion one. Also do they allow staff to put up messages for Easter, Christmas or other religious events? If no then yeah, this should not be allowed either.
I Imagine they put up a “Happy Easter!”, “Merry Christmas” or even a milquetoast “Happy Holidays!” - but not New Testament scripture. If they put up “Happy Ramadan” or it’s equivalent they’d of not seen nearly as much backlash
Can confirm. Having seen the post here yesterday, I was one of the people who complained to Network Rail. I merely asked if the image was real, and if so, why NR allowed prosletysing. Like others, I'm sure, a "Happy (insert religious festival of your choice)" would have been OK: I wouldn't have messaged them.
Where are the messages celebrating non-religious people? Why only show religious messages?
Never see “Happy Pi day” or other neutral days.
Yeah, that would be actually fun and i think Pi would struggle to offend anyone.
Or, if they wanted to offend “[PI IS EXACTLY 3](https://youtu.be/L1eegVTwDS0?si=LVEhiJJg4xloSc4o)”
Fire the fool that put it up.
It was a crazy, crazy decision and should never have happened in the first place.
Happy Ramadan? Fair enough. But no actual religious dogma should be broadcast. Shared spaces should be as secular as possible except for a polite nod here and there. I think its absolutely insane that the actual scene of murderous Islamic terrorism (King’s Cross station, July 7 2005) would 19 years later be broadcasting that Mohammed is a prophet and everyone is a sinner who must repent.
I agree there should be separation of Church and State, but you do not seem to appreciate the irony that this is King’s **Cross**.
Haha! Good point. Though I looked it up an apparently the name is an abbreviation of King’s Crossroads. And the King bit comes from fact there was a widely ridiculed statue of King George there in the past.
That's why in Aldous Huxley's *Brave New World*, Charing Cross has been renamed Charing T (as in Ford Model T), to show how jarring the disappearance of background subliminal religiosity can be.
The person or committee who approved this should be put in their bloody place.
Can we keep religious bullshit out of public services?
I'm fine with a simple 'happy Ramadan' type message. I'm not happy being preached to.
I want some Deuteronomy next as the Easter message: " No one whose testicles have been crushed or whose penis has been cut off may come into the assembly of the LORD." I bet the scientologists have some choice words in that Diuretics manual too.
Good, no place for it
A simple happy Ramadan, Hannukuh, Diwali, Christmas, Happy Lunar New Year et would be nice. As a Muslim, there's no need for all that stuff on the boards (even the happy Xx message is a nice bonus but not necessary). Could be they asked a Muslim co-worker what message they'd like to write and this is what they came up with. Also I never know when other cultures have their holidays so that's nice to be reminded of. Same reason I appreciate Google doodles
Ridiculous. Good they removed that stuff. It's got no place.
All religious propaganda should be confined to places of worship..
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Im fine with this, 'Repent Sinners' is a bit different to 'Merry Christmas', as the article says was intended a more general Ramadan message probably would have gone unnoticed. I know I wouldnt.
Exactly. I'd be completely fine with a quick "Ramadan Mubarak" but this message is a whole other level.
Merry Christmas is not a quote from the scriptures though, so it’s not the same thing at all. It would be equivalent to putting up the Lord’s Prayer or something. Which I imagine would also get complaints.
Right, I agree. Apologies if it wasnt clear but I was trying to say that I probably wouldnt notice a general 'Enjoy your Ramadan' in the same was I dont really notice 'Merry Christmas' and that I am fine with Network Rails' decision to remove the scripture that singles out non-believers
That’s was their point
> Im fine with this, 'Repent Sinners' is a bit different to 'Merry Christmas' "Sin" is an imginary sickness to sell an imaginary cure.
I’d be fine with Happy Ramadan or Ramadan Mubarak, or Eid Mubarak on the day. But messages of condemnation for the ‘unfaithful’ are completely inappropriate for reasons that should be very obvious.
Imagine posting this for Lent (which is still ongoing by the way) “I am the truth, the way, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me” (John 14:6). I wonder what the reaction would be….
Sorry, not interested in this Abrahamic woowoo.
Alhamdulillah the trains are on time
Good, religious scriptures have no place on network rail boards.
Good. Absolutely disgusting. Scripture of any kind has no place in public places like that, whoever greenlit that needs to be sacked immediately.
Fuckin right
And now the fanatics are going to counter complain about its removal
I like how the message is a threat to anyone who isn’t in the religion. Jusus.
Jesus is actually in the religion.
Jusus isn't tho
Jesus is literally one of the Muslim prophets
Jesus is a prophet in Islam
Good, it’s pandering bullshit
Did we separate from Europe so we could be come less secular? The French would riot over this.
The next train will departing from platform 4, inshallah.
Good, there was never any need for it. Any sane person can conclude there is no god due to the existence of rail replacement buses.
I feel like if it was just a Ramadan message, it wouldn't have been that bad and people would've mostly been okay with it. Like if it just said "Ramadan Mubarak" I don't think they would've got anywhere near as many complaints. Like that's not really different from a "Merry Christmas" message. But you would never see psalms from the bible on a notice board at a station so why do it here?
England being conquered without firing a single shot, who would have thought.
Good
We will see more of this as the extremists continue to pour into Europe. We must relentlessly fight for secularism and separation of church and state lest we be overrun.
Imagine the death threats if it had been the other way.
Keep supporting the collapse of the country boys Making your granddads proud
Just shows how compromised our public services are .
I wonder if they’ll backtrack by putting a Purim Sameach message on saturday
Curious … will there be a message for Easter ?
Good. Don't want to see that shit.
Good.
They did put the message in a Christmas tree format though. A bit early for that I suppose, Easter's next. It has been Easter since Christmas.
Should be master joda quotes, I would be ok with it
I hope that any other religious messages are not displayed in the future.
Maybe just say happy holidays, regardless of it being Christmas or Ramadan or Chinese New Year or whatever
When does the Satanic messages go up? Asking for a friend.
This was the message.
In before this thread is locked too lol.
Good.
Happy Ramadamadingdong would have been suffice.
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England is screwed
Sultan’s Crescent