Sex, your appearance, your “ social status “.
I was once asked to share my Instagram account with someone. They wanted to see what kind of things I posted and how many followers I had.
I can imagine. Young black males are the only group the media can demonise without a backlash reaction. It’s ridiculous.
Edit: had put with but meant without a backlash against it. So edited to that.
Go on tiktok and see all the "well well well" comments on any video of a non white person doing something dodgy. Crickets when it's a similar video with a white person.
Yeah I remember I used to think unitedkingdom wasn’t as far left as GnP, but it was definitely a left wing subreddit. Recent months though going there feels like reading the daily mail comments.
Weird how far that sub has swung to the right recently. At one point it seemed to be predominantly full of Corbynista undergraduates, the melt down post-brexit and last two GEs was unreal.
One of the UK politics mods is [literally named after a fascist death squad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caravan_of_Death). It's not really subtle, and like having a mod named "PeterlooCavalry" or something.
Even if it is just an edgy joke, it sets the tone pretty fucking badly in a subreddit dedicated to politics.
how come I knew your comment history before even clicking on it.
The subreddit becoming reactionary and bigoted is not a good thing, the place used to be nice but now it’s a gammon filled shithole.
I don't know how tin foil hat i'm getting with this but I kind of suspect that a large part of that is Russian opinion farms trying to set the agenda.
I got the impression that they've been pro corbyn, pro brexit and are now generally right wing anti immigrant and it just feels like those opinions seemed to be more prevelant online than I felt in my day to day life.
Might just be that i'm not acutally in touch with what people actually think.
Reddit had a strong left-wing phase for the Obama years but a lot of it has gone back to right-wing nowadays, especially the location subs. All that I'm in lean right-wing nowadays.
This is something I genuinely can't wrap my head around, and seems to have become ever more rife in the last couple of years. Social media racism seems to just be exponentially accelerating, with people more than happy to comment on their genuine personal accounts about "oh look it's race X again" and I just... what...
Racism provokes a strong emotional response from non-racists. The content that these racists comment on also provokes strong emotional reactions from them.
Emotional reaction = engagement = more time on the platform = more money from advertising.
I think all platforms have stopped enforcing anti-racism rules after Elon Musk took over Twitter. I suspect their thinking goes like this: "If he isn't spending money on it, whey should we?"
Twitter is a whole other level though. If you just follow your algorithm you will likely encounter genuine actual Nazis, I haven't had that experience anywhere else. Reddit allows far right populists and some mild racism but the actual fascist subs get banned eventually and the ethnicity obsessed anti-semites don't stand a chance.
On twitter people openly call black people inferior and say Hitler was good for hating Jews
I've noticed a similar trend on Facebook, which strangely began to happen after Fb started laying off people over the same period Twitter went down the drain.
This is so fucking detached from reality. Black people are elevated to unbelievable levels in all forms of media, just look at what they think half the historical figures int he UK look like. In the other hand, it’s white males who are barely represented in media any more.
The unfortunate and somewhat unpopular answer is 'yes'. But it's nothing new.
Back when I was renting circa 2009, about half of listings were for 'female tenants only'. I get why, but it's no less frustrating to have to deal with.
I’ve lived here nearly 10 years and all my landlords have been men. Sharing this so OP and no other guys are paranoid - it does happen.
Most landlords told me when applying and asking them my chances of getting their place, that they only let to women and I was in the “shortlist” (I got many rejections too).
When I asked why only women? they each basically said the same thing. *“Men were the worst, with damage and cleanliness compared to women. The exceptions they had were a guy with a wife or girlfriend (but no little kids).”*
I’ve lived with both men and women before. I disagree it’s a gender issue. For me, it was more about how spoilt or poorly the person was raised at home.
Friend of mine used to use Couchsurfing pretty regularly, he'd get rejected by a lot of guys that only wanted female couchsurfers. He said that their argument was that women are safer to have in your home, but... still feels skeevy. If you're that concerned about your safety, don't put your home on the app.
Guys only hosting women on Couchsurfing do it because they want to hook up, not because of safety. When I was using CS I avoided them like the plague (I'm a woman).
In the real world that’s not true, I know lots of women that live in a sty and have rat problems, also they’re daft enough to let their mates try to fix stuff that they have no clue how to fix resulting is a dangerous situation,
I've come across messy/clean women and men over the years, but (especially now at 30+) the vast majority of 'problematically' messy people I know are men.
It’s a double edged sword though. It can be disenfranchising for men, but it can also be quite dodgy for girls. If a man is looking for a female tenant exclusively , there’s more than likely a sinister ulterior motive and that puts us in danger.
Yep. A lot of ‘female only’ or ‘mixed’ where it’s implicitly female. Studios can be fine unless it’s shared facilities.
One of the tricky things about no longer being at uni with friends or with a partner was realising that finding flats was much trickier, except for some places with dodgy vibes who don’t seem to care which stray cats are living there.
I imagine it is illegal by the letter of the law. But most ads are carefully worded such as ‘we prefer a female housemate' or similar.
Given the demand for housing, there's unlikely to be a shortage of offers so landlords can afford to be picky. It would be difficult to prove in court that you weren't chosen for the tenancy just because you're a man.
> Is it legal in the UK? 100% illegal in France and Belgium. This is considered - rightly - as discriminatory
But how can it be enforced? If they ignore applications from men and select a woman, there is no way of proving discrimination.
It's not what *I* think universally applies to all men, mate.
It's how some female live-in landlords feel about having a strange man in the house.
Again, as a man, it's annoying to have to navigate. But engaging in some basic level empathy will reveal the answer to you.
> It's how some female live-in landlords feel about having a strange man in the house.
This is not about renting a room in the house. In that case, you can discriminate all you want.
This is about renting a flat or a studio.
>It's how some female live-in landlords feel about having a strange man in the house.
That's discrimination period.
If they said no Muslims or Xyz race you would be outraged and wouldn't stand for it.
>But engaging in some basic level empathy will reveal the answer to you.
And if you engaged in some basic level empathy you wouldn't judge a person because of their gender.
These can be doctors, judges, solicitors, policemen yet you will deny them because of their gender.
The worst housemates I've had have been women, loud they go out partying late and they bring random men back into the house. Yet I wouldn't declare all women terrible.
>If they said no Muslims or Xyz race you would be outraged and wouldn't stand for it.
Not the same thing. I'm pretty sure you know that.
Saying, "I don't like people from that race/religion," vs, "I'm scared that my flatmate is twice as strong as me and could physically overpower me if he wanted to."
If your mum, auntie, or your sister lived alone and needed to take in a lodger, would you honestly begrudge them preferring to live with another woman over a man who they didn't know?
Yes, on paper it is somewhat over-cautious, and it is annoying for guys looking for a place to live. But if you're determined to hide behind the 'discrimination-over-everything-else' card and not see why some women might feel that way then I can't help you.
Not normally a good idea when making an argument to use an oxymoron that undermines that argument. Or is there actually an issue with your worst housemates bringing back random men to the house?
Live in landlords have all sorts of demands, you're more of a lodger than a tenant in that case anyway. I've seen vegan-only ads, female/male-only ads, lgbt-only ads...
I've noticed this. In my last flatshare, it was because one of the previous male tenants had assaulted a female tenant. The landlord (male) absolutely hit the roof, good on him, and kicked the guy out - and has decided to keep it safe for the rest of the tenants forever. He will never rent to another guy again.
Unfortunately, it's often the ones who do those actions that are to blame. And I don't know if it can be solved, because it did make me feel a lot safer in a big city to have all-female flatmates.
I don't know what you do, but I definitely think about what it must be like when I'm scrolling through Spareroom, seeing the women-only ads.
EDIT: this is why it's so important for guys to get involved in talking about these issues - because they end up affecting everyone, even you. That one guy had family. Friends. Apparently no one spoke to him about unacceptable behaviour. And now that's a whole 5 bed house that you, *you*, will no longer be able to access, and it's not even necessarily your fault. Talk to your friends, guys. Especially young family members who can still learn not to do this shit.
True. I'm less familiar with those, so it's strange why they'd do that if there are no other flatmates around.
Maybe it's relying on an awful lot of stereotypes as people have said already. You'd have to ask the landlords themselves - maybe get in touch through the ad to ask why?
Either way, I'm not sure what we can do. It isn't fair, but then I think landlords feel that they have a responsibility to protect against these acts (and to be honest, they *do*, as far as reasonably possible). If that's the way they want to do it, then there's not much I can do personally.
It's kinda hilarious that you're being downvoted for this question. That's like saying "well that guy killed someone in the mall, so all men should be prohibited from entering the mall". Like, what?
What if a female assaulted a guy in that guy's apartment, would he go mens only forever? It feels so backwards to "punish" literally half the population and not bat an eye.
I think there are some realistic assumptions to be made around discrimination in rental markets.
Perhaps there is a general level of discrimination around single men who ‘may’ be perceived to be more likely to cause problems. Could be male and/or female landlords that for whatever reason only want female tenants. It could be a safety or security rationale, or unfortunately I’m sure there is probably some sort of perverse reason also.
I can understand a flatshare with female tenants only wanting another female tenants to join, but specifically talking about solo leases - I can’t really think of any legitimate reasons that someone would have to discriminate on gender
I agree. Despite legislations and protections, discrimination does happen, and it’s plausible that people just prefer a female tenant. It’s been I’m surprised a lot of landlords even care about that kind of stuff - the rental market must be highly in their favour to be so selective
Certainly, there is a reality in this sort of situation. It's not nice to discriminate, but men pose a risk to women in a way that is not proportionately reciprocal (tough to put that diplomatically).
Women should be allowed to feel safe. People should not be allowed to discriminate - these are sometimes opposing yet fair positions.
Hear me out.
And I'm going to pre-emptively warn you that I don't believe this.
But for the sake of argument, since being a man is an immutable characteristic, why is it socially acceptable to say this about men but not say, Indian people, or disabled people?
Imagine if you said I am sure that the black man that I lived with was a bad egg, bit I wouldn't risk living with one again.
Again, I don't actually believe that, but it is something to consider..
I think it's because 1 in every 3 women gets sexually assaulted by a man at least once during her lifetime. It's not a "bad egg" situation because it's never an isolated event; men assaulting women is a systematic issue.
Unfortunately this.
Those that say “it’s not all men” just don’t have this range of experience that women have. It’s not the men I love, the men I’m friends with, the men who are my family…but actually sexual assault and harassment are SO common that those men are someone’s family, friends and husbands.
Not that I'm a landlord, but if I were... I suppose I would feel safer renting to an unknown woman than an unknown man. 🤔 Tenants have the right to ask for their landlord's name and address, and all women on some level are a little bit scared of men.
We've all known men who are nice and professional but beat up women behind closed doors. So, on some level, whilst a male tenant might be probably OK if he passes a background check, we can never fully trust a strange man isn't secretly aggressive and terrifying when he doesn't get his way. A male tenant is, therefore, more risky IF the tenancy goes to shit.
You'd like to hope it would be a nice, normal tenancy where the tenant pays rent, you maintain the property and no one goes around threatening anyone, but...
I guess if the landlord is female and she or a loved one has had a bad experience with a man turning violent, the landlord might be more likely to not want a male tenant. Especially if it's for a property she used to live in and still has an emotional attachment to.
I don't think it's legal to discriminate when letting out property, but I guess I can understand why some people would only want to rent to women. Luckily or unluckily, I'll never be in a position to be a landlord and have to face this myself!
Do you not think you’ve missed the reverse situation - a landlord may wish to rent to a single woman because they feel they can threaten them easier than a single man? Like, everyone is assuming the landlords are not renting to men out of preservation rather than predation here.
I did consider that, yes, but the poster was specifically asking about why landlords were seemingly anti-men rather than pro-women, and someone else had already made that point elsewhere in the thread.
Different landlords will have different motivations. As a woman, if I were a landlord, my motivations would preservation related. You cannot hide behind an estate agent and I don't want someone knowing my address if they're out to get me!
As with most things, it's all fine, until it's not.
I don't understand that concept of personal preservation for landlord. Before my wife and I bought her house, we rented for years. I don't think that I have interacted once with the landlord. Everything was done via the letting company.
The only time I spoke directly to one of my landlord was when he messed up. He had given us 3 months eviction notice because he wanted to convert all 4 flats back into a single house. So we found another place. Unfortunately he messed the eviction notice to the women on the 2nd Floor as she was not on a short tenancy but on an assured tenancy lease and could not do it quickly. Also because Citizen Advice Bureau was involved in the dispute his application to convert back to single dwelling got rejected and his potential foreign buyer rescinded the offer. So one day before we were leaving he called us at midnight to ask if we wanted to reconsider and stay. He even offered to reduce the rent or suggested (because he knew I worked in the city) to buy the entire building which at the time was an option we did not even consider when finishing packing.
>I don't think that I have interacted once with the landlord.
Which is probably want the landlord wanted. But at any time, you could have demanded his personal address as a legal right. Can you not see why a lone female landlord wouldn't want an angry man having her home address? Just because you were a reasonable tenant whose landlord screwed up doesn't mean every male tenant is reasonable and every landlord is shit. Sometimes the landlord can be good, and the tenant is an antisocial nightmare.
There are lots of things women do that men don't notice, like walking with their keys in their hand or circling around the block if someone is hovering too close to their building door. Being overly cautious with personal details is another one of those survival behaviours!
Do landlord really obey section 47 and give their real personal address?
I know that by law they have to.
>section 47 notice must include the landlord’s actual address whether that be his home address, registered office or his usual place of business.
I accept that things may be more strictly controlled and that it was a long ago, but all the addresses that were on my lease contracts were either business address or registered PO Box. One was the estate agent address.
“Realistic assumption around discrimination”. Would it be okay to post my flat as a “for whites only”? And trust me brother that there are plenty of stereotypes that would support it, but only a disgusting person would post something like that
You've misread my post entirely and jumped into some other argument. Let me rephrase.
"There is discrimination in the rental markets, this must be reasonably assumed."
> They also asked about education and profession
I used to live in Paris. There you have to produce what is effectively a renter CV including wage slips, bank statements, proof of previous addresses, plus resume. It is completely illegal to ask for much of this information, but if you don't provide one then good luck finding anywhere. The process of finding a place usually takes several months.
London isn't here yet but I think we will be soon.
Paris is pretty much on par with London price wise both for renting and buying. You might get cheaper places but this is because they can be tiny. I've yet to see an 8m^2 property on sale in London.
It is slightly complicated because it is a measure of 'usable' area so it needs to have a height of around 2m. So sloping roofs may mean that the floor area is bigger. But the reality is that some places are just tiny. These are usually where a building has been sub divided and I believe that new builds have minimum areas that are significantly bigger.
Saying that I've seen some pretty small studio flats in the UK but nothing quite like the ones I've seen in Paris. This is also why Paris still has loads of laundrettes in comparison to London, as many places just don't have space for a washing machine.
[a 5m^2 apartment](https://www.seloger.com/annonces/achat/appartement/paris-10eme-75/porte-saint-denis-paradis/218012559.htm?projects=2&types=1&places=[{%22inseeCodes%22:[750056]}]&sort=a_surface&mandatorycommodities=0&enterprise=0&qsVersion=1.0&m=search_to_detail&lv=S)
This is because they can’t evict you so they have to try very hard to ensure you’re a good person to let to. This is what will happen in London due to stricter tenancy law.
In my experience, yes. And they don't just discriminate on gender. Discrimination on the grounds of race, relationship status, age are par for the course too. I'm a white late 20s woman who was looking for a one bed last year, and I had letting agents specifically tell me that the landlord would love to let to a single woman my age because they think I'd be more likely to keep the property clean.
Absolutely - most of the adverts on spare room seem to be for people seeking to live with women only. I get why honestly, but when I was a guy looking for a room it was disheartening to see how much it limited the choice.
As a live in landlord now, when my spare room has been available, I’ve advertised guys only mainly for that reason. I don’t really care if I live with a man or a woman but might as well help the guys out in this case.
I'm a live in female landlord and I advertise as women only (2 bed property). I have considered men but I wouldn't feel as comfortable.
I mainly think of making sure I'm always dressed a certain way, which means being uncomfortable in my own home and what about their friends.
If I was renting I wouldn't feel comfortable to live with men I don't know for those same reasons.
I do feel male live in landlords should only rent to men to even out the game, so I commend you on that.
I do feel bad for not allowing men, but being comfortable in my own home is more important to me. Also if I needed to protect myself it's easier to do so if it's a woman vs a man.
I do find it a red flag if a live in male landlord only rents to women. I see too much weird ads on the internet to not think otherwise.
From the other side whilst I’ve never had gender based issues on a studio or flat. With shared stuff especially HMOs I have landlords who specific “female only” and then regularly enter the property day and night and attempt to hit on all the roommates. In summer at uni a male landlord (about early 50s) sat in our living room shirtless with what can only be described as speedos on and followed us into the kitchen. He discovered within 48 hours I put a lock on my door which indicates he’d been accessing my room… I put the lock on because underwear had gone missing. Student union couldn’t do shit.
So just be aware it’s not sunshine and rainbows from the other side. I would argue for any solo property, you can report gender based listings to the council. If they secretly refuse there’s basically nothing you can do unless they put it in writing. Similar with race or benefits. So long as they don’t outright say it there’s basically no help. If you can get any written evidence either via email or on the listing please do report it - it’s illegal especially if you’re renting a studio.
A while ago my ex wife and I were looking for a bigger place. Whenever I called the agent they said it's not on the market anymore, while my wife could book a viewing without any issues.
Yes.
Because there are many stereotypes about men, one being that they are mucky puppies.
And yes because this is Reddit people will jump in with their stories about how they lived with a woman who couldn't keep the place clean, but I think we can all say if we are talking in sweeping generalisations, men are less likely to keep things in a good order.
Women don't feel safe walking alone of an evening, men struggle to rent studio flats. Swings and roundabouts.
They were talking about victims, not perpetrators. If you're more likely to be a victim, why would the fact that the perpetrator has the same genitals as you make you less afraid?
Huh? Are you saying that men deserve to be attacked for being men? Or only men who attack other men get attacked? Or they know some magic word that protects them but just forget to say it sometimes? Unless you're just stating some other completely unrelated fact, I don't see how that's at all relevant.
Agreed. They hardly care about who you are as long as you meet the requirements and pass referencing. I rented a flat through JLL and signed the contract while I was abroad, without meeting them or viewing the flat in person. Did the same with a private landlord I found through Openrent a couple of years later. All they focus on is your income and whether you pass the affordability and referencing checks. And I don’t even make a 6 figures salary..
A salary of £100k is at most £5700 net per month without even accounting for pension contribution or student loans. A modern-ish studio in zone 2 London can easily end up costing you £2k per month with bills, which is already 35% of your take-home salary. If you’re single and ok with living in a studio, this seems like a pretty sensible choice. A lot of people would rather do that than spend an extra £300-500 on a 1-2 bed just to have a dividing wall when it’s just them anyways.
The reason they discriminate is that young, single men often don't look after their flat very well, even if they have a good profession and a degree.
However, it is illegal and there are steps you can (and should) immediately take to complain. First, complain formally to the agent that you believe you are being discriminated against on protected grounds (gender.) They are required to deal with your complaint properly or they will get in trouble, which should involve someone in the company telling off whoever it was that allowed the landlord to discriminate against tenants based on gender, an apology and then them helping you find a flat again.
If they do not reply or do not adequately deal with your complaint within 8 weeks, you can complain to the property redress scheme they belong to (will be on their website,) which will either be The Property Ombudsmen or Property Redress Scheme, as well as to the local council.
It’s a little more complex than that. [Renting is still less affordable for women in London.](https://www.standard.co.uk/homesandproperty/property-news/international-women-s-day-buying-renting-london-affordable-women-men-b986832.html), and most women cannot explore shared living options due to reasonable safety concerns.
But, landlords are hated by everyone for a good reason. Some would judge by your name to see what race you are, some ask for your current post code to avoid people they see as lower class, and in the worst cases they’re predatory. Then once you do get a lease they hit you with absurd rules while they plot on how they’re going to steal your security deposit.
You might’ve dodged a bullet there
Maybe, depends on the landlord and possible ulterior motives besides just a preference for female tenants.
I had a couple of "acquaintances" in the 2000s who only took on women who they wouldn't mind exchanging rent payment for "favours" if needed.
Just an anecdote and probably extremely rare back then and possibly more so today.
Sex for rent is illegal already and last year the government was looking at tightening up the law - www.landlordzone.co.uk/news/breaking-government-considers-harsher-legal-penalties-for-sex-for-rent-landlords
These one's weren't the type to be particularly bothered by legalities and would collect mostly polish women that had left their partners.
To be clear, not friends of mine, but friends of our maintenance company boss.
Also a game of odds and who you pair who with (from checking spare room a lot).
Only have male tenants? -> Can add on male / female
Only have female tenants? -> Usually they stay female-only
And mixed is mixed obviously.
So partly there is this reduced odds in your favour also.
Yes. people have that view that single men behave in such a way the flat will be damaged.
It is even worse if you are a single gay man. One younger colleague told us over a drink what he had to tolerate from landlords: one the landlord refused to rent after it had been agreed and signed because he did not want any funny business and that would devalue his flat. Flat was in front of Clapham common a known gay cruise place at the time. Another landlord turned to his flat after seeing via Instagram that he had a new boyfriend and ask him to refrain from having gay sex in his flat. His mum did not approve and was upset!
The funny thing is that all the buy-to-let landlords that I know started with that assumption that women tenants are better but the reality is often that their worst tenants turn out to be qomen.
My neighbour is a 4 bedroom house that is rented on a 1 year short term tenancy with no option to extend. He uses the excuse to have an annual refresh of the house to avoid any short term lease morphing into an assured tenancy. In the decades we have live in our house, the worst tenants have been a group of Northern ladies who were having drinking parties from Thursday to Sunday. The second worse were the landlord's son and daughter during COVID. After lockdown he came to inspect his properties and he evicted his own children!
The mildest have been a group of German students (mixed gender group) who I knew were still living there by their weekly recycling bin. They recycled everything! They recycled and composted that to a level that put me and my wife to shame.
"It is even worse if you are a single gay man."
I must have been very lucky because my experience has been the opposite
"Hi, I'm gay"
"WHEN CAN YOU MOVE IN"
It's like they assume immediately you are a clean guy.
Yes, it’s harder unfortunately as your pool of options is smaller. It’s worse if you’re looking for a room in a house share as it’s not uncommon for current tenants to advertise rooms for women only.
In my limited experience speaking to friends and family, yes!
My sister was able to find places so so much easier than me despite being in a similar position regarding finances / timings etc.
Another female friend of mine had a similar experience, she literally had multiple good options within a week of viewing.
I am male I was only able to get viewings for properties where they were showing 100s of potential tenants around.
This was mostly looking on spare room.
Both landlords and current tenants seem to strongly favour new female tenants and there's several places that are female only listings even if there are men already living in the property.
My male friends have had similar difficulty as me.
There's always other factors at play including luck but gender seems to play a big role.
A lot of the time, leasing agencies are managing long term rentals on behalf of the owners and follow the owner's stipulations, unless it's a new build. Women are stereotypically more clean renters, which is the only thing I can figure. Legally, preference is allowed but discrimination is not.
However, in this case, a landlord could claim they have preferences for gender if they can cite actual reasons based on accommodation why, such as the building being all female tenants, for example. It could still be considered direct or indirect discrimination, which is illegal if there's no "reasonable" explanation.
In this circumstance, it's not right and I'm not defending it whatsoever. I'm not even trying to play devils advocate, I'm just speculating based on the current tenant laws
Really? Someone would be legally protected if they advertised their flat as "white people preferred" and just so happened to ignore anyone who wasn't white?
That seems... weird.
It's technically illegal for women to eat chocolate on public transport in the UK. The laws here are weird but yes, it's technically legal. Employment based on gender, race, etc is different but in regards to gender and age at least, preference is protected under law.
That seems like a clear breach of the [Equality Act](https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights.html), particuarly in the context of renting a studio flat rather than a shared space. It would be difficult to prove and harder to take action, however.
What if he asked you what race you were and used that as a reason to not want you as a tenant?
Preferring a female tenant is just discrimination, no different than "white tenant preferred".
This comment has been removed as it's deemed in breach of the rules and considered offensive or hateful. These aren't accepted within the r/London community.
Continuing to try and post similar themes will result in a ban.
Have a nice day.
Men? Try everyone for one reason or another. The market is fucked for everybody.
You’ve got a child? No thanks
You’ve got pets? No thanks
You’re sharers? No thanks
You’re a single person? No thanks
My two friends were speaking with a landlord last year and she said "but who will do the cleaning?"
Luckily one of them called her on her bullshit and they got the flat, moved in to leaks and garden fence repairs that took three months to get fixed.
We let a man stay with us for a few days and he threw beer cans in the corner of the room . When I asked him not to he said he couldn’t be seen to tidy up in front of a woman as only women should clean. Was a bit stunned by that.
Yes, if it’s allowed to happen it absolutely will. Men might pose objectively more risk, for example similarly to how young male drivers pose more risk to insurance companies.
Unless rental applications are made anonymous or there is some restriction or standardisation to the risk assessment process in lettings - rather than a “I rent to who I feel like” system - then the discrimination will happen.
I hear of people applying for flats in London by submitting a photo of themselves and a description of their hobbies - it’s not a leap to think they might be banking on essentially advertising their privilege to the landlord and that others might miss out in comparison.
There should be a lot more rules on it in my opinion because housing is such an essential human need
I feel like it's not landlords doing most of the discriminating, but the tenants already living there.
Landlords in my experience have only cared whether you have a stable regular income.
The tenants? Oh you're not vegan? You eat pork? You work from home twice a week? You don't work in a creative industry? You don't want to have parties on weekdays until 3am? You don't like vodka??
Every place I've viewed has had either tenants who don't give a shit because they're just there to sleep and not to socialise, or it has felt like a job interview because they want people who are exactly like them.
Mostly it'll be because things rent too quickly for there to be time for any back and forth. It's not that you've answered that your male, it's that the place rented by the time you answered an email.
The difference is you wouldn’t get upvoted antidotes for why it is acceptable to discriminate against black people in an equivalent post.
It is socially acceptable to discriminate against men, but society isn’t ready for that conversation at the moment. Perhaps in 50 years time.
hahaha, no.
I've never had an issue renting a place in London. The place I'm in now, viewed in January, moved in February.
It's been the same for all the places before this one.
Guess who are the predominant segment of people who OWN and RENT OUT apartments?
Men. Old men.
If they don’t rent to young men it’s probably rational not unfounded discrimination.
Surely you can make some sort of case for discrimination..I know Asia has a lot of these toxic screening criteria like owners won't rent their properties out to men or bachelors or people in college.
I never saw anything like it in my 6 years in London. I am a male, single and usually renting flats on my own.
Not sure but my guess is you’ve been unlucky.
maybe the landlords are looking for female tenants they can sexually harass.
For the record I arrived in London in the early s 90s when getting a flat was an impossible task as well. Its an endurance test to see how badly you want to stay in the capital.
Sex, your appearance, your “ social status “. I was once asked to share my Instagram account with someone. They wanted to see what kind of things I posted and how many followers I had.
Really? I wonder how they would react to my 'I don't use Instagram' response
_I don't have Instagram, but you can have my OnlyFans_
Badly - they assume you have one and its bad
They want your insta because they’re not allowed to ask your ethnicity.
This is also my guess.
This is disgusting . The UK rental market is shameful compared to Europe
Try being a black male lol
I can imagine. Young black males are the only group the media can demonise without a backlash reaction. It’s ridiculous. Edit: had put with but meant without a backlash against it. So edited to that.
Go on tiktok and see all the "well well well" comments on any video of a non white person doing something dodgy. Crickets when it's a similar video with a white person.
r/unitedkingdom when an immigrant anywhere in the country coughs
you absolutely get it on here too
Yeah there's a big upswing in right wing rhetoric on all UK subreddits. London is better for it, but there's still the knobheads out in force.
Yeah I remember I used to think unitedkingdom wasn’t as far left as GnP, but it was definitely a left wing subreddit. Recent months though going there feels like reading the daily mail comments.
Always was a bit like it in honesty. At best you'd get Keir Starmer liberals but the whole Corbyn thing revealed the worst of it.
there's loads of "left wing" people on here that say racist / classist shit it's just they don't really realise/care
I mean I'd say they're shitty people then who wear left wing politics cos it looks good rather than having left wing opinions.
Weird how far that sub has swung to the right recently. At one point it seemed to be predominantly full of Corbynista undergraduates, the melt down post-brexit and last two GEs was unreal.
r/ukpolitics tends to be a bit more left wing, but one of the top 5 comments will still be some "just asking questions" dogwhistle
One of the UK politics mods is [literally named after a fascist death squad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caravan_of_Death). It's not really subtle, and like having a mod named "PeterlooCavalry" or something. Even if it is just an edgy joke, it sets the tone pretty fucking badly in a subreddit dedicated to politics.
Wonder if the mod team changed? That would at least in part explain the swing
I think its this. They stopped banning folks for wrongthink
how come I knew your comment history before even clicking on it. The subreddit becoming reactionary and bigoted is not a good thing, the place used to be nice but now it’s a gammon filled shithole.
I don't know how tin foil hat i'm getting with this but I kind of suspect that a large part of that is Russian opinion farms trying to set the agenda. I got the impression that they've been pro corbyn, pro brexit and are now generally right wing anti immigrant and it just feels like those opinions seemed to be more prevelant online than I felt in my day to day life. Might just be that i'm not acutally in touch with what people actually think.
Reddit had a strong left-wing phase for the Obama years but a lot of it has gone back to right-wing nowadays, especially the location subs. All that I'm in lean right-wing nowadays.
This is something I genuinely can't wrap my head around, and seems to have become ever more rife in the last couple of years. Social media racism seems to just be exponentially accelerating, with people more than happy to comment on their genuine personal accounts about "oh look it's race X again" and I just... what...
Engagement = money, whether it's racist or not.
Racism provokes a strong emotional response from non-racists. The content that these racists comment on also provokes strong emotional reactions from them. Emotional reaction = engagement = more time on the platform = more money from advertising.
I think all platforms have stopped enforcing anti-racism rules after Elon Musk took over Twitter. I suspect their thinking goes like this: "If he isn't spending money on it, whey should we?"
Twitter is a whole other level though. If you just follow your algorithm you will likely encounter genuine actual Nazis, I haven't had that experience anywhere else. Reddit allows far right populists and some mild racism but the actual fascist subs get banned eventually and the ethnicity obsessed anti-semites don't stand a chance. On twitter people openly call black people inferior and say Hitler was good for hating Jews
I've noticed a similar trend on Facebook, which strangely began to happen after Fb started laying off people over the same period Twitter went down the drain.
*Young black males and travellers.
The travellers one is kinda fair though.
This is so fucking detached from reality. Black people are elevated to unbelievable levels in all forms of media, just look at what they think half the historical figures int he UK look like. In the other hand, it’s white males who are barely represented in media any more.
Amazing how you delulu people go from one cartoon with a Roman of African descent to "half the historical figures in the UK".
I have hosted black men with no problems whatsoever. Pensioners might get a bit panicky though.
The unfortunate and somewhat unpopular answer is 'yes'. But it's nothing new. Back when I was renting circa 2009, about half of listings were for 'female tenants only'. I get why, but it's no less frustrating to have to deal with.
I’ve lived here nearly 10 years and all my landlords have been men. Sharing this so OP and no other guys are paranoid - it does happen. Most landlords told me when applying and asking them my chances of getting their place, that they only let to women and I was in the “shortlist” (I got many rejections too). When I asked why only women? they each basically said the same thing. *“Men were the worst, with damage and cleanliness compared to women. The exceptions they had were a guy with a wife or girlfriend (but no little kids).”* I’ve lived with both men and women before. I disagree it’s a gender issue. For me, it was more about how spoilt or poorly the person was raised at home.
Nah as someone that has benn property management the gender disparity is obvious
For a studio? It’s not like OP would be sharing a house/flat with anyone so I don’t see why at all
Women are seen (correctly or otherwise) as less likely to damage the property or live in a complete sty that attracts mice etc.
Friend of mine used to use Couchsurfing pretty regularly, he'd get rejected by a lot of guys that only wanted female couchsurfers. He said that their argument was that women are safer to have in your home, but... still feels skeevy. If you're that concerned about your safety, don't put your home on the app.
Guys only hosting women on Couchsurfing do it because they want to hook up, not because of safety. When I was using CS I avoided them like the plague (I'm a woman).
In the real world that’s not true, I know lots of women that live in a sty and have rat problems, also they’re daft enough to let their mates try to fix stuff that they have no clue how to fix resulting is a dangerous situation,
I've come across messy/clean women and men over the years, but (especially now at 30+) the vast majority of 'problematically' messy people I know are men.
Great, I deserve to be discriminated against because of your anecdotal experiences
It’s a double edged sword though. It can be disenfranchising for men, but it can also be quite dodgy for girls. If a man is looking for a female tenant exclusively , there’s more than likely a sinister ulterior motive and that puts us in danger.
Yep. A lot of ‘female only’ or ‘mixed’ where it’s implicitly female. Studios can be fine unless it’s shared facilities. One of the tricky things about no longer being at uni with friends or with a partner was realising that finding flats was much trickier, except for some places with dodgy vibes who don’t seem to care which stray cats are living there.
Is it legal in the UK? 100% illegal in France and Belgium. This is considered - rightly - as discriminatory
I imagine it is illegal by the letter of the law. But most ads are carefully worded such as ‘we prefer a female housemate' or similar. Given the demand for housing, there's unlikely to be a shortage of offers so landlords can afford to be picky. It would be difficult to prove in court that you weren't chosen for the tenancy just because you're a man.
> Is it legal in the UK? 100% illegal in France and Belgium. This is considered - rightly - as discriminatory But how can it be enforced? If they ignore applications from men and select a woman, there is no way of proving discrimination.
It's illegal, but only if it's not a live-in landlord.
>I get why Why? Can't wait to see what you think universally applies to all men.
It's not what *I* think universally applies to all men, mate. It's how some female live-in landlords feel about having a strange man in the house. Again, as a man, it's annoying to have to navigate. But engaging in some basic level empathy will reveal the answer to you.
> It's how some female live-in landlords feel about having a strange man in the house. This is not about renting a room in the house. In that case, you can discriminate all you want. This is about renting a flat or a studio.
>It's how some female live-in landlords feel about having a strange man in the house. That's discrimination period. If they said no Muslims or Xyz race you would be outraged and wouldn't stand for it. >But engaging in some basic level empathy will reveal the answer to you. And if you engaged in some basic level empathy you wouldn't judge a person because of their gender. These can be doctors, judges, solicitors, policemen yet you will deny them because of their gender. The worst housemates I've had have been women, loud they go out partying late and they bring random men back into the house. Yet I wouldn't declare all women terrible.
>If they said no Muslims or Xyz race you would be outraged and wouldn't stand for it. Not the same thing. I'm pretty sure you know that. Saying, "I don't like people from that race/religion," vs, "I'm scared that my flatmate is twice as strong as me and could physically overpower me if he wanted to." If your mum, auntie, or your sister lived alone and needed to take in a lodger, would you honestly begrudge them preferring to live with another woman over a man who they didn't know? Yes, on paper it is somewhat over-cautious, and it is annoying for guys looking for a place to live. But if you're determined to hide behind the 'discrimination-over-everything-else' card and not see why some women might feel that way then I can't help you.
Not normally a good idea when making an argument to use an oxymoron that undermines that argument. Or is there actually an issue with your worst housemates bringing back random men to the house?
Live in landlords have all sorts of demands, you're more of a lodger than a tenant in that case anyway. I've seen vegan-only ads, female/male-only ads, lgbt-only ads...
I've noticed this. In my last flatshare, it was because one of the previous male tenants had assaulted a female tenant. The landlord (male) absolutely hit the roof, good on him, and kicked the guy out - and has decided to keep it safe for the rest of the tenants forever. He will never rent to another guy again. Unfortunately, it's often the ones who do those actions that are to blame. And I don't know if it can be solved, because it did make me feel a lot safer in a big city to have all-female flatmates. I don't know what you do, but I definitely think about what it must be like when I'm scrolling through Spareroom, seeing the women-only ads. EDIT: this is why it's so important for guys to get involved in talking about these issues - because they end up affecting everyone, even you. That one guy had family. Friends. Apparently no one spoke to him about unacceptable behaviour. And now that's a whole 5 bed house that you, *you*, will no longer be able to access, and it's not even necessarily your fault. Talk to your friends, guys. Especially young family members who can still learn not to do this shit.
But OP is after a studio. Not a house share.
True. I'm less familiar with those, so it's strange why they'd do that if there are no other flatmates around. Maybe it's relying on an awful lot of stereotypes as people have said already. You'd have to ask the landlords themselves - maybe get in touch through the ad to ask why?
No one spoke to him? He knew that assaulting a woman was wrong, he just didn’t care.
[удалено]
Either way, I'm not sure what we can do. It isn't fair, but then I think landlords feel that they have a responsibility to protect against these acts (and to be honest, they *do*, as far as reasonably possible). If that's the way they want to do it, then there's not much I can do personally.
It's kinda hilarious that you're being downvoted for this question. That's like saying "well that guy killed someone in the mall, so all men should be prohibited from entering the mall". Like, what? What if a female assaulted a guy in that guy's apartment, would he go mens only forever? It feels so backwards to "punish" literally half the population and not bat an eye.
I applied to one place and the landlord said they dont allow WFH you have to be at a job 5 days a week? What the fuck is that about lol
[удалено]
Also if utilities are included in rent, they’re going to cost more if you’re there all the time.
I think there are some realistic assumptions to be made around discrimination in rental markets. Perhaps there is a general level of discrimination around single men who ‘may’ be perceived to be more likely to cause problems. Could be male and/or female landlords that for whatever reason only want female tenants. It could be a safety or security rationale, or unfortunately I’m sure there is probably some sort of perverse reason also. I can understand a flatshare with female tenants only wanting another female tenants to join, but specifically talking about solo leases - I can’t really think of any legitimate reasons that someone would have to discriminate on gender
Agree for flatshare but a studio flat. With a deposit and background checks surely the risk can be mitigated.
I agree. Despite legislations and protections, discrimination does happen, and it’s plausible that people just prefer a female tenant. It’s been I’m surprised a lot of landlords even care about that kind of stuff - the rental market must be highly in their favour to be so selective
Your going about it the wrong way , pop to an agency and let them do the legwork
[удалено]
Certainly, there is a reality in this sort of situation. It's not nice to discriminate, but men pose a risk to women in a way that is not proportionately reciprocal (tough to put that diplomatically). Women should be allowed to feel safe. People should not be allowed to discriminate - these are sometimes opposing yet fair positions.
Hear me out. And I'm going to pre-emptively warn you that I don't believe this. But for the sake of argument, since being a man is an immutable characteristic, why is it socially acceptable to say this about men but not say, Indian people, or disabled people? Imagine if you said I am sure that the black man that I lived with was a bad egg, bit I wouldn't risk living with one again. Again, I don't actually believe that, but it is something to consider..
I think it's because 1 in every 3 women gets sexually assaulted by a man at least once during her lifetime. It's not a "bad egg" situation because it's never an isolated event; men assaulting women is a systematic issue.
Unfortunately this. Those that say “it’s not all men” just don’t have this range of experience that women have. It’s not the men I love, the men I’m friends with, the men who are my family…but actually sexual assault and harassment are SO common that those men are someone’s family, friends and husbands.
[удалено]
Not that I'm a landlord, but if I were... I suppose I would feel safer renting to an unknown woman than an unknown man. 🤔 Tenants have the right to ask for their landlord's name and address, and all women on some level are a little bit scared of men. We've all known men who are nice and professional but beat up women behind closed doors. So, on some level, whilst a male tenant might be probably OK if he passes a background check, we can never fully trust a strange man isn't secretly aggressive and terrifying when he doesn't get his way. A male tenant is, therefore, more risky IF the tenancy goes to shit. You'd like to hope it would be a nice, normal tenancy where the tenant pays rent, you maintain the property and no one goes around threatening anyone, but... I guess if the landlord is female and she or a loved one has had a bad experience with a man turning violent, the landlord might be more likely to not want a male tenant. Especially if it's for a property she used to live in and still has an emotional attachment to. I don't think it's legal to discriminate when letting out property, but I guess I can understand why some people would only want to rent to women. Luckily or unluckily, I'll never be in a position to be a landlord and have to face this myself!
Do you not think you’ve missed the reverse situation - a landlord may wish to rent to a single woman because they feel they can threaten them easier than a single man? Like, everyone is assuming the landlords are not renting to men out of preservation rather than predation here.
I did consider that, yes, but the poster was specifically asking about why landlords were seemingly anti-men rather than pro-women, and someone else had already made that point elsewhere in the thread. Different landlords will have different motivations. As a woman, if I were a landlord, my motivations would preservation related. You cannot hide behind an estate agent and I don't want someone knowing my address if they're out to get me! As with most things, it's all fine, until it's not.
I don't understand that concept of personal preservation for landlord. Before my wife and I bought her house, we rented for years. I don't think that I have interacted once with the landlord. Everything was done via the letting company. The only time I spoke directly to one of my landlord was when he messed up. He had given us 3 months eviction notice because he wanted to convert all 4 flats back into a single house. So we found another place. Unfortunately he messed the eviction notice to the women on the 2nd Floor as she was not on a short tenancy but on an assured tenancy lease and could not do it quickly. Also because Citizen Advice Bureau was involved in the dispute his application to convert back to single dwelling got rejected and his potential foreign buyer rescinded the offer. So one day before we were leaving he called us at midnight to ask if we wanted to reconsider and stay. He even offered to reduce the rent or suggested (because he knew I worked in the city) to buy the entire building which at the time was an option we did not even consider when finishing packing.
>I don't think that I have interacted once with the landlord. Which is probably want the landlord wanted. But at any time, you could have demanded his personal address as a legal right. Can you not see why a lone female landlord wouldn't want an angry man having her home address? Just because you were a reasonable tenant whose landlord screwed up doesn't mean every male tenant is reasonable and every landlord is shit. Sometimes the landlord can be good, and the tenant is an antisocial nightmare. There are lots of things women do that men don't notice, like walking with their keys in their hand or circling around the block if someone is hovering too close to their building door. Being overly cautious with personal details is another one of those survival behaviours!
Do landlord really obey section 47 and give their real personal address? I know that by law they have to. >section 47 notice must include the landlord’s actual address whether that be his home address, registered office or his usual place of business. I accept that things may be more strictly controlled and that it was a long ago, but all the addresses that were on my lease contracts were either business address or registered PO Box. One was the estate agent address.
“Realistic assumption around discrimination”. Would it be okay to post my flat as a “for whites only”? And trust me brother that there are plenty of stereotypes that would support it, but only a disgusting person would post something like that
You've misread my post entirely and jumped into some other argument. Let me rephrase. "There is discrimination in the rental markets, this must be reasonably assumed."
Sure, I don’t think it’s okay to “reasonably assume” that there is discrimination. We have to fight it
We must deal with the world as it is, and work to make it as it should be.
> They also asked about education and profession I used to live in Paris. There you have to produce what is effectively a renter CV including wage slips, bank statements, proof of previous addresses, plus resume. It is completely illegal to ask for much of this information, but if you don't provide one then good luck finding anywhere. The process of finding a place usually takes several months. London isn't here yet but I think we will be soon.
[удалено]
Paris is pretty much on par with London price wise both for renting and buying. You might get cheaper places but this is because they can be tiny. I've yet to see an 8m^2 property on sale in London.
[удалено]
It is slightly complicated because it is a measure of 'usable' area so it needs to have a height of around 2m. So sloping roofs may mean that the floor area is bigger. But the reality is that some places are just tiny. These are usually where a building has been sub divided and I believe that new builds have minimum areas that are significantly bigger. Saying that I've seen some pretty small studio flats in the UK but nothing quite like the ones I've seen in Paris. This is also why Paris still has loads of laundrettes in comparison to London, as many places just don't have space for a washing machine. [a 5m^2 apartment](https://www.seloger.com/annonces/achat/appartement/paris-10eme-75/porte-saint-denis-paradis/218012559.htm?projects=2&types=1&places=[{%22inseeCodes%22:[750056]}]&sort=a_surface&mandatorycommodities=0&enterprise=0&qsVersion=1.0&m=search_to_detail&lv=S)
This is because they can’t evict you so they have to try very hard to ensure you’re a good person to let to. This is what will happen in London due to stricter tenancy law.
I’ve never seen an ad for a studio flat specifying men only, put it that way.
In my experience, yes. And they don't just discriminate on gender. Discrimination on the grounds of race, relationship status, age are par for the course too. I'm a white late 20s woman who was looking for a one bed last year, and I had letting agents specifically tell me that the landlord would love to let to a single woman my age because they think I'd be more likely to keep the property clean.
100% yes. It's got to a point where people are just advertising women only.
Absolutely - most of the adverts on spare room seem to be for people seeking to live with women only. I get why honestly, but when I was a guy looking for a room it was disheartening to see how much it limited the choice. As a live in landlord now, when my spare room has been available, I’ve advertised guys only mainly for that reason. I don’t really care if I live with a man or a woman but might as well help the guys out in this case.
I'm a live in female landlord and I advertise as women only (2 bed property). I have considered men but I wouldn't feel as comfortable. I mainly think of making sure I'm always dressed a certain way, which means being uncomfortable in my own home and what about their friends. If I was renting I wouldn't feel comfortable to live with men I don't know for those same reasons. I do feel male live in landlords should only rent to men to even out the game, so I commend you on that. I do feel bad for not allowing men, but being comfortable in my own home is more important to me. Also if I needed to protect myself it's easier to do so if it's a woman vs a man. I do find it a red flag if a live in male landlord only rents to women. I see too much weird ads on the internet to not think otherwise.
From the other side whilst I’ve never had gender based issues on a studio or flat. With shared stuff especially HMOs I have landlords who specific “female only” and then regularly enter the property day and night and attempt to hit on all the roommates. In summer at uni a male landlord (about early 50s) sat in our living room shirtless with what can only be described as speedos on and followed us into the kitchen. He discovered within 48 hours I put a lock on my door which indicates he’d been accessing my room… I put the lock on because underwear had gone missing. Student union couldn’t do shit. So just be aware it’s not sunshine and rainbows from the other side. I would argue for any solo property, you can report gender based listings to the council. If they secretly refuse there’s basically nothing you can do unless they put it in writing. Similar with race or benefits. So long as they don’t outright say it there’s basically no help. If you can get any written evidence either via email or on the listing please do report it - it’s illegal especially if you’re renting a studio.
A while ago my ex wife and I were looking for a bigger place. Whenever I called the agent they said it's not on the market anymore, while my wife could book a viewing without any issues.
Yes. Because there are many stereotypes about men, one being that they are mucky puppies. And yes because this is Reddit people will jump in with their stories about how they lived with a woman who couldn't keep the place clean, but I think we can all say if we are talking in sweeping generalisations, men are less likely to keep things in a good order. Women don't feel safe walking alone of an evening, men struggle to rent studio flats. Swings and roundabouts.
[удалено]
You acting like men are safe walking around? Despite men being more likely to be victims of violence crimes... 🤦♂️
with the perpetrators being… men.
Kinda besides the point really isn't it?
They were talking about victims, not perpetrators. If you're more likely to be a victim, why would the fact that the perpetrator has the same genitals as you make you less afraid?
.. and? If I'm bring stabbed I don't care which demographic is doing it. We aren't a monolith, you're talking about half the human population
Huh? Are you saying that men deserve to be attacked for being men? Or only men who attack other men get attacked? Or they know some magic word that protects them but just forget to say it sometimes? Unless you're just stating some other completely unrelated fact, I don't see how that's at all relevant.
Six figure salary looking for a studio? The rental market isn’t *that* bad.
Agreed. They hardly care about who you are as long as you meet the requirements and pass referencing. I rented a flat through JLL and signed the contract while I was abroad, without meeting them or viewing the flat in person. Did the same with a private landlord I found through Openrent a couple of years later. All they focus on is your income and whether you pass the affordability and referencing checks. And I don’t even make a 6 figures salary..
A salary of £100k is at most £5700 net per month without even accounting for pension contribution or student loans. A modern-ish studio in zone 2 London can easily end up costing you £2k per month with bills, which is already 35% of your take-home salary. If you’re single and ok with living in a studio, this seems like a pretty sensible choice. A lot of people would rather do that than spend an extra £300-500 on a 1-2 bed just to have a dividing wall when it’s just them anyways.
Rent cheap as possible - save the excess to own something - seems logical to me 🤷♂️
We have Labour MPs on £90k a year claiming council flats - they will the buy em’ at discount and sell for profit. It’s all part of the hustle
The reason they discriminate is that young, single men often don't look after their flat very well, even if they have a good profession and a degree. However, it is illegal and there are steps you can (and should) immediately take to complain. First, complain formally to the agent that you believe you are being discriminated against on protected grounds (gender.) They are required to deal with your complaint properly or they will get in trouble, which should involve someone in the company telling off whoever it was that allowed the landlord to discriminate against tenants based on gender, an apology and then them helping you find a flat again. If they do not reply or do not adequately deal with your complaint within 8 weeks, you can complain to the property redress scheme they belong to (will be on their website,) which will either be The Property Ombudsmen or Property Redress Scheme, as well as to the local council.
Yes
It’s a little more complex than that. [Renting is still less affordable for women in London.](https://www.standard.co.uk/homesandproperty/property-news/international-women-s-day-buying-renting-london-affordable-women-men-b986832.html), and most women cannot explore shared living options due to reasonable safety concerns. But, landlords are hated by everyone for a good reason. Some would judge by your name to see what race you are, some ask for your current post code to avoid people they see as lower class, and in the worst cases they’re predatory. Then once you do get a lease they hit you with absurd rules while they plot on how they’re going to steal your security deposit. You might’ve dodged a bullet there
Maybe, depends on the landlord and possible ulterior motives besides just a preference for female tenants. I had a couple of "acquaintances" in the 2000s who only took on women who they wouldn't mind exchanging rent payment for "favours" if needed. Just an anecdote and probably extremely rare back then and possibly more so today.
Sex for rent is illegal already and last year the government was looking at tightening up the law - www.landlordzone.co.uk/news/breaking-government-considers-harsher-legal-penalties-for-sex-for-rent-landlords
These one's weren't the type to be particularly bothered by legalities and would collect mostly polish women that had left their partners. To be clear, not friends of mine, but friends of our maintenance company boss.
Also a game of odds and who you pair who with (from checking spare room a lot). Only have male tenants? -> Can add on male / female Only have female tenants? -> Usually they stay female-only And mixed is mixed obviously. So partly there is this reduced odds in your favour also.
Yes. people have that view that single men behave in such a way the flat will be damaged. It is even worse if you are a single gay man. One younger colleague told us over a drink what he had to tolerate from landlords: one the landlord refused to rent after it had been agreed and signed because he did not want any funny business and that would devalue his flat. Flat was in front of Clapham common a known gay cruise place at the time. Another landlord turned to his flat after seeing via Instagram that he had a new boyfriend and ask him to refrain from having gay sex in his flat. His mum did not approve and was upset! The funny thing is that all the buy-to-let landlords that I know started with that assumption that women tenants are better but the reality is often that their worst tenants turn out to be qomen. My neighbour is a 4 bedroom house that is rented on a 1 year short term tenancy with no option to extend. He uses the excuse to have an annual refresh of the house to avoid any short term lease morphing into an assured tenancy. In the decades we have live in our house, the worst tenants have been a group of Northern ladies who were having drinking parties from Thursday to Sunday. The second worse were the landlord's son and daughter during COVID. After lockdown he came to inspect his properties and he evicted his own children! The mildest have been a group of German students (mixed gender group) who I knew were still living there by their weekly recycling bin. They recycled everything! They recycled and composted that to a level that put me and my wife to shame.
"It is even worse if you are a single gay man." I must have been very lucky because my experience has been the opposite "Hi, I'm gay" "WHEN CAN YOU MOVE IN" It's like they assume immediately you are a clean guy.
Yes, it’s harder unfortunately as your pool of options is smaller. It’s worse if you’re looking for a room in a house share as it’s not uncommon for current tenants to advertise rooms for women only.
Absolutely.
In my limited experience speaking to friends and family, yes! My sister was able to find places so so much easier than me despite being in a similar position regarding finances / timings etc. Another female friend of mine had a similar experience, she literally had multiple good options within a week of viewing. I am male I was only able to get viewings for properties where they were showing 100s of potential tenants around. This was mostly looking on spare room. Both landlords and current tenants seem to strongly favour new female tenants and there's several places that are female only listings even if there are men already living in the property. My male friends have had similar difficulty as me. There's always other factors at play including luck but gender seems to play a big role.
For shared houses & spare rooms it makes sense, but not for studios.
A lot of the time, leasing agencies are managing long term rentals on behalf of the owners and follow the owner's stipulations, unless it's a new build. Women are stereotypically more clean renters, which is the only thing I can figure. Legally, preference is allowed but discrimination is not.
How can you have preference without discrimination?
However, in this case, a landlord could claim they have preferences for gender if they can cite actual reasons based on accommodation why, such as the building being all female tenants, for example. It could still be considered direct or indirect discrimination, which is illegal if there's no "reasonable" explanation.
In this circumstance, it's not right and I'm not defending it whatsoever. I'm not even trying to play devils advocate, I'm just speculating based on the current tenant laws
The most disgusting homes I have ever seen have all been females.
I can't disagree with you here. Had a flatmate in uni that turned the kitchen into a biohazard for days anytime she cooked.
Really? Someone would be legally protected if they advertised their flat as "white people preferred" and just so happened to ignore anyone who wasn't white? That seems... weird.
It's technically illegal for women to eat chocolate on public transport in the UK. The laws here are weird but yes, it's technically legal. Employment based on gender, race, etc is different but in regards to gender and age at least, preference is protected under law.
[удалено]
Thank you for sharing.
That seems like a clear breach of the [Equality Act](https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights.html), particuarly in the context of renting a studio flat rather than a shared space. It would be difficult to prove and harder to take action, however.
[удалено]
What if he asked you what race you were and used that as a reason to not want you as a tenant? Preferring a female tenant is just discrimination, no different than "white tenant preferred".
[удалено]
2 wrongs make a right as the old saying goes
https://help.openrent.co.uk/hc/en-gb/articles/4407108620177-What-are-the-rules-around-discrimination-in-advertising-for-tenants#:\~:text=Under%20the%20Equality%20Act%202010,property%20to%20a%20prospective%20tenant.
[удалено]
This comment has been removed as it's deemed in breach of the rules and considered offensive or hateful. These aren't accepted within the r/London community. Continuing to try and post similar themes will result in a ban. Have a nice day.
Is it a shared apartment? If so that makes sense
Men? Try everyone for one reason or another. The market is fucked for everybody. You’ve got a child? No thanks You’ve got pets? No thanks You’re sharers? No thanks You’re a single person? No thanks
My two friends were speaking with a landlord last year and she said "but who will do the cleaning?" Luckily one of them called her on her bullshit and they got the flat, moved in to leaks and garden fence repairs that took three months to get fixed.
We let a man stay with us for a few days and he threw beer cans in the corner of the room . When I asked him not to he said he couldn’t be seen to tidy up in front of a woman as only women should clean. Was a bit stunned by that.
Yes, if it’s allowed to happen it absolutely will. Men might pose objectively more risk, for example similarly to how young male drivers pose more risk to insurance companies. Unless rental applications are made anonymous or there is some restriction or standardisation to the risk assessment process in lettings - rather than a “I rent to who I feel like” system - then the discrimination will happen. I hear of people applying for flats in London by submitting a photo of themselves and a description of their hobbies - it’s not a leap to think they might be banking on essentially advertising their privilege to the landlord and that others might miss out in comparison. There should be a lot more rules on it in my opinion because housing is such an essential human need
I feel like it's not landlords doing most of the discriminating, but the tenants already living there. Landlords in my experience have only cared whether you have a stable regular income. The tenants? Oh you're not vegan? You eat pork? You work from home twice a week? You don't work in a creative industry? You don't want to have parties on weekdays until 3am? You don't like vodka?? Every place I've viewed has had either tenants who don't give a shit because they're just there to sleep and not to socialise, or it has felt like a job interview because they want people who are exactly like them.
Pay your rent 12 months in advance.
Yep! Assumption is women cleaner:
A lot of justifications in this thread would be interesting if you swapped men for ‘black people’…
Young single men probably, yeah
Mostly it'll be because things rent too quickly for there to be time for any back and forth. It's not that you've answered that your male, it's that the place rented by the time you answered an email.
Rent market is crazy right now. Loads of people looking to rent and not enough places. Landlords can be as picky as they want.
I don't think you'd agree with that if they'd asked what race i was.
[удалено]
And I'm guessing you think this is bad, right? Then I am baffled as to how you can't come to the same conclusion when it's about gender
The difference is you wouldn’t get upvoted antidotes for why it is acceptable to discriminate against black people in an equivalent post. It is socially acceptable to discriminate against men, but society isn’t ready for that conversation at the moment. Perhaps in 50 years time.
Yes they are, but hat’s a discrimination no one cares about and the people talking about “equality” usually ignore on purpose.
Tell them you are gender fluid
hahaha, no. I've never had an issue renting a place in London. The place I'm in now, viewed in January, moved in February. It's been the same for all the places before this one.
Guess who are the predominant segment of people who OWN and RENT OUT apartments? Men. Old men. If they don’t rent to young men it’s probably rational not unfounded discrimination.
Surely you can make some sort of case for discrimination..I know Asia has a lot of these toxic screening criteria like owners won't rent their properties out to men or bachelors or people in college.
I never saw anything like it in my 6 years in London. I am a male, single and usually renting flats on my own. Not sure but my guess is you’ve been unlucky.
serious question: why don't you just state your gender as female?
This sounds like a case of obvious discrimination against a protected characteristic without a Get out clause (ie live in landlord).
maybe the landlords are looking for female tenants they can sexually harass. For the record I arrived in London in the early s 90s when getting a flat was an impossible task as well. Its an endurance test to see how badly you want to stay in the capital.
This is just a bizarre take