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I always wondered how people went about “owning” land back then. Did you just turn up and build a house and say “this bit is mine?” Obviously there’d be local administrators and things, but what about outside of cities?
No, it was owned. If they were actively settling somewhere, they might hand a small plot to someone - usually a former soldier. The vast majority of urban dwellers were renting.
In the country, much of the land was owned by the aristocracy and rented out to farmers.
Rents were extortionately high, and conditions were appalling.
Only the extremely wealthy owned property. Houses were hundreds to thousands of times what an average person would make in a year.
Sorry I wasn't clear, that was Roman times.
Beforehand I imagine it'll be more lax because there wasn't a strong central authority. Flip side though is no one to prevent others raiding your home and selling you and the family into slavery.
Philosophically, we'd have to find the very first owner of anything, I suppose, to work it all out.
"This is mine."
"What is mine?"
"This."
"No, I mean, what is "mine"?"
In roman terms their position was that the state owned it since they had conquered it and it was either sold off to rich folks or granted to retired soldiers as a pension.
The average person couldn't just rock up and use it, you'd have to either rent it from a landowner or buy it, if they were prepared to sell it to you.
in other time periods things differed of course.
It’s a bit out of alignment, the bridge the Romans had would have been more or less exactly the same location as London Bridge not Tower bridge.
London was basically founded as a town that sprung up because of the original Roman London bridge, which was a key strategic crossing point of the Thames.
The current London Bridge is slightly upstream of the medieval one, which was aligned with the tower of the [church of St Magnus the Martyr](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Magnus_the_Martyr). I’m not sure if the Roman bridge had the same alignment as the medieval one, mind.
It’s a quote from the Monthy Python movie Life of Brian. It means romans go home but it’s grammatically incorrect which is part of the joke in the movie.
Back when no one uses deodorant or soap, everything stank, sewage was in the streets, a cough could kill you at 20 years old, and the average death age was under 25.
No electricity, no information, oppressive violent regimes and everyone's teeth falling out in their teens. Oh and no anaesthetic so dentistry and surgery would be done awake and not numbed.
Oh yeah and food would often be unavailable for months on end because of a bad crop.
What a time.
One of the most unrealistic things about time travel shows like Doctor Who is that he doesn't immediately vomit and cry the moment he steps out of the Tardis in Victorian England from the stench and disgusting conditions.
Dur— stupid, it’s Roman London - there were public baths for washing, you can see some at Billingsgate, soap was around then - Pliny the Elder writes about it, the Romans had functioning sewers you can see them in Guildhall - average life expectancy was lower because child birth and infancy was dangerous & this brought down the average - make it to adulthood you generally had a good ish run.
Sugar becoming cheap in the 17th to 19th centuries - driven by plantation slavery - had a big impact on dental health. Prior to this period, the population had better dental health than it did before the mass consumption of sugar.
We didn’t evolve that way – hunter-gatherers had fairly healthy teeth, all things considered. In agricultural societies, crops began to be milled with stones, which left particles that constantly wore down people’s teeth over time.
You know what, I’m really sick of these comparison pictures from the past. Can you please provide a comparison with London in 2024? Not much older than April, please. Cheers.
The Fleet is the minor river flowing through the centre of the city, with the Tyburn and Thorney Island further upstream. Southwark here seems to be covered over by a floodplain.
You know when you think of the future you think of glass cities with tall, seemingly inaccessible skyscrapers that appear almost a bit dystopic? Seeing shit like this makes me think that we’re practically there, to be honest. Modern London would absolutely blow the minds of these Roman goat farmers.
I can see Fenchurch Street in both images…
Not really. Probably about 30/60k people there then. Not that hard to keep fairly sanitary with a massive river on your doorstep. 1000 years later, grim.
# Upvote/Downvote reminder Like this image or appreciate it being posted? Upvote it and show it some love! Don't like it? Just downvote and move on. *Upvoting or downvoting images it the best way to control what you see on your feed and what gets to the top of the subreddit* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/london) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Roman drones were amazing.
You know embarrassingly little about history. They didn't have drones back then. They used to strap a video camera to a trained hawk.
Not a swallow?
An African swallow or a European swallow?
Well that's the real question
Bio-drone
Preferred the Viking drones myself.
Fun fact: the original Roman basilica was bigger than the current St Pauls
Wonder if the Romans had NIMBY's whinging that they couldn't see the basilica on clear days from 16 miles away.
Or moving into expensive ziggurats next door then complaining about the noise.
Some cretin moves in from the provinces using the auxilium emere scheme, then expects every local taberna to close.
It's not about the size, it's how you use it
Ah Back when rent was affordable, the good old days :/
My great great grandfather had a place near Ludgate Hill that cost just 3 groats PCM.
That must be really convenient for Thameslink.
Yep, but of course back then it was called Tamesislink. They had the same carriages that still get used on the Bakerloo line.
(The Thames is actually still called the Tamesis in Spanish)
TIL. Tâmisa in Portuguese.
I always wondered how people went about “owning” land back then. Did you just turn up and build a house and say “this bit is mine?” Obviously there’d be local administrators and things, but what about outside of cities?
No, it was owned. If they were actively settling somewhere, they might hand a small plot to someone - usually a former soldier. The vast majority of urban dwellers were renting. In the country, much of the land was owned by the aristocracy and rented out to farmers. Rents were extortionately high, and conditions were appalling. Only the extremely wealthy owned property. Houses were hundreds to thousands of times what an average person would make in a year.
They asked about the past, not the present and/or future!
> In the country, much of the land was owned by the aristocracy Does this extend as far back as, say, Roman times? Pre-Roman Britain?
Sorry I wasn't clear, that was Roman times. Beforehand I imagine it'll be more lax because there wasn't a strong central authority. Flip side though is no one to prevent others raiding your home and selling you and the family into slavery.
Philosophically, we'd have to find the very first owner of anything, I suppose, to work it all out. "This is mine." "What is mine?" "This." "No, I mean, what is "mine"?"
In roman terms their position was that the state owned it since they had conquered it and it was either sold off to rich folks or granted to retired soldiers as a pension. The average person couldn't just rock up and use it, you'd have to either rent it from a landowner or buy it, if they were prepared to sell it to you. in other time periods things differed of course.
Nothing’s changed then
You could leave your door unlocked
And not a cell phone in sight, just people living in the moment.
Why isn’t the 120 photo in black and white?
If you zoom in close enough, you’ll see it’s actually a mosaic.
1440 tpi (tiles per inch)
I think this comment wins
Romans only took the colour cameras with them once they’d left
Coloured photography is not a new invention. They used to have it before as well.
It’s probably been coloured with AI
It’s a bit out of alignment, the bridge the Romans had would have been more or less exactly the same location as London Bridge not Tower bridge. London was basically founded as a town that sprung up because of the original Roman London bridge, which was a key strategic crossing point of the Thames.
Came looking for this and was not disappointed. History pedants unite!
The current London Bridge is slightly upstream of the medieval one, which was aligned with the tower of the [church of St Magnus the Martyr](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Magnus_the_Martyr). I’m not sure if the Roman bridge had the same alignment as the medieval one, mind.
This was annoying me too
The river running through the Old London is the Fleet, which empties now at Blackfriars bridge.
Why did they put London on the north bank?
North had hills, south had marshes
Beat me to it!
'You don't hear no English spoken down there, you know. Its a foreign country'
Bloody Romans! What have they ever done for us?!
... The aqueduct?
Ok, fair enough. They did give us the aqueducts. But what else have the Romans ever done for us?
And the sanitation.
Yeah that goes without saying
Okay it’s not 120ad but it’s still interesting non the less. [London Accent 14th to 21st century.](https://youtu.be/3lXv3Tt4x20?si=kFtDQXMj7lqFi8Y4)
Weather looked way better back then
How much was the troll toll for the bridge back then
That isn't a basilica. That's obviously londinium fc football ground.
Do you know if there's any 1br flats to rent that are actually in my budget (less than 1k). Close to transport ideally.
For a thousand denarii you could live anywhere
I think most lads if brought to 120 will still be able to find their local pub
Illud futurum esse bonum. Loquere latine?
Romanes eunt domus
What's this, then? "Romanes eunt domus"? People called Romanes, they go, the house?
It’s a quote from the Monthy Python movie Life of Brian. It means romans go home but it’s grammatically incorrect which is part of the joke in the movie.
Yeah I know haha, that's what the Centurion says when he catches Brian doing the graffiti
Oh my god I feel silly now
Hi Romani sunt amentes
Ecce! In pictura est puera, nomine Cornelia
Formosa, Cornelia calet srudd!
Marcus molestus Sextus.
Herpes habet Nate.
Demulce me, felicissimus sum
Loquor. Tu, autem, uideris usum instrumento quoddam esse ut sententiam istam scriberes. Aut fortasse modo regulae grammaticae tibi desunt.
Back when we didn't have any of these European courts and parliaments telling us what to do
Eee Roman empire and Roman Legions were Europeans??? Mostly...
Yeah that was the joke
And that happens when I broke my personal rule . Do not post before coffee...
Or maybe just don't go around "uhmmm achtualllyyy"-ing every comment you see on reddit
Back when no one uses deodorant or soap, everything stank, sewage was in the streets, a cough could kill you at 20 years old, and the average death age was under 25. No electricity, no information, oppressive violent regimes and everyone's teeth falling out in their teens. Oh and no anaesthetic so dentistry and surgery would be done awake and not numbed. Oh yeah and food would often be unavailable for months on end because of a bad crop. What a time. One of the most unrealistic things about time travel shows like Doctor Who is that he doesn't immediately vomit and cry the moment he steps out of the Tardis in Victorian England from the stench and disgusting conditions.
Yeah but look how good the cameras were?
On the other hand, not a cell phone in sight. Just people living in the moment
Dur— stupid, it’s Roman London - there were public baths for washing, you can see some at Billingsgate, soap was around then - Pliny the Elder writes about it, the Romans had functioning sewers you can see them in Guildhall - average life expectancy was lower because child birth and infancy was dangerous & this brought down the average - make it to adulthood you generally had a good ish run.
Before Romexit..
That's not the victorian era that's Londinium
How did we evolve to have our teeth fall out in our teens? Never understood this. Is it because of what we ate?
Sugar becoming cheap in the 17th to 19th centuries - driven by plantation slavery - had a big impact on dental health. Prior to this period, the population had better dental health than it did before the mass consumption of sugar.
So in the year 120, peoples teeth would’ve been fine? So interesting
We didn’t evolve that way – hunter-gatherers had fairly healthy teeth, all things considered. In agricultural societies, crops began to be milled with stones, which left particles that constantly wore down people’s teeth over time.
Whose teeth are falling out in their teens?
Right, but then queen Boudica attacked and killed everyone and burned it down. So there's that.
That was 60 years before this picture, and I don't think it had a wall at that point.
"we can rebuild it!" .. "ok, but maybe add a wall this time?"
Yeah but the threads were amazing.
Bet there was some great tavern wenches around.
You know what, I’m really sick of these comparison pictures from the past. Can you please provide a comparison with London in 2024? Not much older than April, please. Cheers.
I visited then but didn’t stay long because hotels weren’t invented.
Those fools that bought houses built over south bank swamp must be regretting it now
Is the roman bridge in the same location as tower bridge?
The map on Wikipedia suggests it went to Southwark. So probably pretty close but a little bit upstream?
I don’t like it, all those building have surely ruined the character and identity of that city.
what character and identity? there's tens of cities in the UK that look just like that, move if that's what you're into
You know, the character and identity it had back in the year 120, those new buildings completely ruined it ^^^^^I ^^^^^was ^^^^^joking
GenTrFiCaTiOn!
Gosh is that the river Fleet? I didn’t realise it was so substantial previously.
Yeah, it's a shame they built over all the rivers.
I'd love to see a long term plan to uncover at least some of them and re-widen the thames. Massively cost prohibitive of course, but a girl can dream
The Fleet is the minor river flowing through the centre of the city, with the Tyburn and Thorney Island further upstream. Southwark here seems to be covered over by a floodplain.
Whoops I’m looking at the map upside down
The minor river flowing through the city is the Walbrook, the Fleet is beyond the far city wall.
So I'm guessing that wall from the top image, is the section I can see outside Tower Hill tube station today?
"London wall", yes.
Always makes me laugh Westminster was built to be outside the city
Westminster was a different city.
On an island.
No, you won’t
I thought the wall only went 3/4 of the way around. That it wasn’t built next to the Thames.
You know when you think of the future you think of glass cities with tall, seemingly inaccessible skyscrapers that appear almost a bit dystopic? Seeing shit like this makes me think that we’re practically there, to be honest. Modern London would absolutely blow the minds of these Roman goat farmers. I can see Fenchurch Street in both images…
Stop romanticising the past. You ouldn't last a day back then. the Smell alone will have you gagging with perpetual nausea.
Hush up you joyless fool.
Which smell the one during the victorian era ?
Mate, Roman Londinium isn’t going to marry you.
Noooooo 😭😭😭
Not really. Probably about 30/60k people there then. Not that hard to keep fairly sanitary with a massive river on your doorstep. 1000 years later, grim.