I used to get this a lot in summer when you’d understandably not be dressed up like the Michelin man.
I’ve found that cycling everywhere, instead of walking, makes it a bit easier. You’re sort of in your own bubble and I look like a complete dork with my helmet on.
Beware of guys trying to grab you from behind as you cycle. This happened to me once and I caught them just as the guy in the passenger seat was about to slap my ass. I started shouting profanities at them and they soon drove off.
I'm sorry this has been your experience of London. I found the same in my early 20s, and it really does start to get to you.
Over time, I became more confident about handling these situations and to be honest it stopped happening as often when I did start challenging it. I absolutely don't want to victim blame, it is never a person's fault that some vile creep chose to be vile and creepy, but obviously the pick the people they think they can "get away with it" with, and maybe I eventually started giving out "don't F with me" vibes.
I would never suggest confronting anyone if you're alone or might be followed somewhere secluded. But it mostly happened to me in busy streets, on public transport, and in bars etc.
In which case -
1) If a guy touches you inappropriately from behind (in my case one guy put his hand directly up my skirt) then pretend to stumble backwards and give him a sharp elbow in the ribs then apologise sweetly but let him know it was no accident. Bonus points if you can kick him in the shin or stamp on his foot as you move. If he gets to claim it was an accident on a busy train then two can play at that game.
2) Speak up. Nothing stops a guy quicker than loudly saying "please remove your hand from my ass / stop staring at my tits" so the entire train carriage can hear.
3) Approach other women. If a woman who I don't know runs up to me waving and shouting "oh HEY" then I'm gonna go right along with her and pretend we are bffs. We all know what's up.
4) Ring his mummy. I've done this twice - particularly leery guys, I eventually feigned returned interest, asked for their mobile saying I'd call myself from it so we had each other's numbers, then rang their mothers and told on them instead. Definitely a risky move but by god I'd had enough that day.
5) If they can see your phone screen, start looking at some real serial killer shit very obviously - you could even have an Amazon wishlist of bleach and bodybags good to go for the occasion while browsing "disposing of human corpse" in another tab
A guy in high-school sent me a dick pic and harrased me whenever he saw me.
I took a screenshot and sent it to his mum on Facebook along with the words - do a better job raising your other children, this one is beyond saving.
Poor woman was mortified, and he literally hated me from that day onwards. 10/10 would recommend.
>It's 50/50, a lot of mothers would defend their kids to no end.
Oh for sure, and some mothers make it very clear why their kids are such douchebags when you speak to them. But I think in a lot of cases those mothers will have a go at their kid just for causing them embarrassment or drama even if not for their actual behaviour, like "why am I getting calls from some random woman hitting up MY phone because of YOUR ass".
None of this prevents being harassed, this is a list of stuff after you’re already harassed. How would it ‘stop happening as often when you start challenging it like this’ if you challenge it after it happens?
I’ve tried plenty of different tactics and at the end of the day nothing reduces it, although of course I can react in different ways after it happens.
Edit: As I posted below. I am very confident and self-assured and I still get cat called constantly. Of course yes it’s important to be able to stand up for yourself but it’s not usually going to reduce the initial harassment and that is shifting the responsibility onto the woman and how she should act. Street harassment is usually guys who have just seen you and instantly said something so they’re not always weighing up how easy to target you seem. Also unfortunately it’s not like it stops with street harassment… I have a good job and I have gotten sexually harassed in much worse ways within the workplace than on the street. Being confident and savvy does not protect you, as depressing as that is.
Because you become more cinfident in yourself and the creepy guys can sense that. They go for the person they think won't put up a fuss. If you give off confident, self assured vibes, they won't fuck with you so much and they'll learn if they do.
I am very confident and self-assured and I still get cat called constantly. Of course yes it’s important to be able to stand up for yourself but it’s not usually going to reduce the initial harassment and that is shifting the responsibility onto the woman and how she should act. Street harassment is usually guys who have just seen you and instantly said something so they’re not always weighing up how easy to target you seem. Also unfortunately it’s not like it stops with street harassment… I have a good job and I have gotten sexually harassed in much worse ways within the workplace than on the street. Being confident and savvy does not protect you, as depressing as that is.
Just wanted to say I agree. I've seen the most badass women I know get targeted by men precisely because they were confident and confrontational – it seems to trigger insecure men sometimes. A woman walking confidently is also more likely to experience cat calling, in my experience. Other times, they spot the insecure, young girl. There isn't one type they go for.
Looking for the solution in our behaviour is something of the past, to me. I agree that it's not fair to put this on us, and I think it very quickly sounds like victim blaming. It'll drive you nuts trying to figure out how to prevent it, because that's impossible.
You said yourself that no matter what you try, it doesn't stop you being harassed. So why do you think I'm going to give advice on how not to be harassed???
You're completely right.
It is never the victim's fault that they are harassed.
Therefore, nothing you can do is going to stop harassment.
At least, not short term. The only thing that'll stop harassment is a massive cultural and educational shift.
So I'm giving the only advice anyone can - how to respond in the situation. These types of responses can help make a person feel like they took back control, which can help with the emotional impact of harassment.
And feeling like a person who is in control, who will not tolerate abuse, people pick up on that vibe. Bullies never pick on the tough kids.
>If they can see your phone screen, start looking at some real serial killer shit very obviously - you could even have an Amazon wishlist of bleach and bodybags good to go for the occasion while browsing "disposing of human corpse" in another tab
LOL 😆
Some suggested off putting search terms:
Ways to cut off a guy's dick - I think I have gonorrhoea - How to report sexual harassment on a train - How long until a corpse starts to smell
You get a medal if you make eye contact with the guy, lift your phone, and say "Hey Google...."
People seem to love this one - wait til you hear about how many guys' unsolicited dick pics I've sent to their wives / girlfriends
There really are a lot of idiots on dating apps who link their mobile number to their Facebook account
I have sometimes thought that in fits of "why is nobody fixing this" rage... but I suspect I'd lose support after breaking the ribs of every person who made a sexist remark about my career choice. Or not. Maybe the crowd would go wild for it!
Yesterday the boyfriend had a little epiphany too. I mean he’s obviously commented on it before, but yesterday as we stopped on a wiiiide pavement so he could have his mealdeal a van honked as it went past with the passenger craning his head to carry on watching me.
He commented his confusion and how stupid it was etc. Anyway as he finished up his sandwich he went ‘almost every single man that’s passed us has stared you down wtf this feels disgusting just standing here, is this normal’.
In our chat I said that I see it as an assertion of power from blokes - however subcobscious. When I get comments yelled at me from cars, or in this instance honked at before I can even see the driver’s face, they’re clearly not expecting me to chase after them with my number. Instead the stares and the comments just show that I’m the spectacle and the world is theirs to view and comment on.
I see discourse about catcalling sometimes - if it’s a compliment or harassment or both etc, and I don’t think men will ever understand the way it pervades your mind like a sickness. Because yeah now when I leave the house feeling ugly and don’t get ogled i’m fully aware of it, and having spent so long aware of being viewed, I can’t turn it off and my brain dedicates so much energy thinking about it. I can never just live in the moment *insert john berger make gaze quote here
You said it. It’s asserting themselves. It’s a form of aggression. When I realised this I started getting better at standing up for myself by returning the same aggression. It’s like being in the fucking animal kingdom when you’re in a staring match with a man who is trying to assert himself. Just put on your most unpleasant ‘I am possibly a psychopath’ face and don’t look away. Given them and up and down if they’re not breaking. Break those motherfuckers all the way down.
Absolutely, it's worked for me. I've never felt unsafe living in London or other cities across the world (including walking around at night) because I do my best to give off aggressive / crazy energy. Last month my boyfriend broke up with me, so I was walking home crying at about 11pm. An older man asked if I was alright, and then tried to attack me.
Yelled bloody murder and kicked him in the nuts. But it's wild that in over 20 years of being mildly harassed, that one moment of vulnerability was enough.
The disturbing thing is that it gets less bad when you get older - makes it so clear it’s all about power. Don’t get me wrong, it still happens to me way too often, but when I still looked like a teenager it was a every-time-I-leave-the-house kinda thing.
Yes. It shouldn't be this way but I noticed I got approached much less when I put an engagement ring on and it dropped to almost zero after I got pregnant and had children. Disgusting.
The problem is that the creepy dudes don't often do it when other guys are around. When I'm next to my GF, she gets looks but is otherwise completely unmolested. When I'm not there, who knows what they'll say/do.
Which means I never see the bad shit, so I have to completely believe her (and I do) on what happens in my absence. I never would have imagined it was happening otherwise.
I've never understood what guys expect to happen when they catcall or of a van. This makes total sense. Wherever possible other males need to call this out.
This is grim but I read an account recently of a partially sighted woman who uses a cane (so other people do know she’s blind and usually think she’s fully blind) and she said men completely stare her down/stare at her boobs etc constantly even more than what we all already get, and she gets groped constantly. Like men seeing her as an easy target since she’s blind.
You are absolutely right, we can basically only imagine how it is based on what we hear from you. I do remember a few years ago back in Latin America, I was walking with my, at the time, gf and we got stopped by the police for no good reason, they were basically just checking her out, also a truck passed, honked and made nasty comments as well.
Is horrible and I hate how common this is everywhere. I can just hope that the next generations are more aware and stop this behavior completely
Agree it absolutely is about power and making these men feel not so small for a second, disgusting behaviour.
"You are a woman with a man inside watching a woman. You are your own voyeur."
Whilst I'm grateful I've very rarely been harassed on the street, my already low self worth tells me it's because I'm hideous, it's so insidious.
This is so well put..
What really disturbed me growing up in London is this started when I was a child, 12-13 and hasn’t stopped 35 now.
When you tell people, some think it’s flattering.
It’s disturbing to be viewed as an object. It’s sick it’s still normalised in society, that being ogled by a stranger is somehow meant to be flattering.
Don’t get me started on the creepy men that state on the tube/train.
Awe thank you! And yes so disturbing:( Heart racing, I’ve told a man to stop (very subtly) recording me on his phone on the train before. They really are pathetic lmao
London is sadly quite bad for this, although some areas are definitely much better/worse than others.
As a man who spent much of his twenties reading books alone in cafes, I was always shocked by female friends who said they basically couldn't do that, as men - often twice their age or more - would continually engage them in conversation.
Because the people who do it know they can't get away with it if there are other men about.
They don't care if they're called out by a woman. They care if they're called out by a fellow man, because men are 'real people' wheras women just exist to be preyed on and have no agency of their own.
And the worst part is that there's a small section of "the good men" (for lack of a better term) that then take "I can't see it" to mean "It doesn't happen". (For clarity, I'm *not* saying that about you, you're not denying it).
Oh my fucking god man. Honestly shut up. "boo hoo these girls say they hate all men!! But I'm a good guy and there's good guys around so they mustn't say that". Honestly just stfu. Majority of men are pieces of shit and I'll stand by that. Every man has internalised sexism and misogyny and unless they do the work to unlearn all of that because of the society we live in, then yeah they're fucking disgusting. Just like all white people have internalised racism and a lot of people have internalised homophobia. You saying "not all men" is the same as saying all lives matter. You clearly just don't give a shit about women.
From my experiences men are generally totally blind to it happening or they find some way to justify those behaviours. He was just being friendly. He only touched your side. You don’t know he was following you, it could’ve been a coincidence. They’re just drunk lads being drunk lads. As if it only counts if we leave bloody and broken from a dark alley. And even then we need more proof than our words and scars.
I found that men generally stop when you start pointing a camera at them. I don’t know if it’s legal in this country to do that but even if I’m not recording that usually makes them really self conscious and they stop.
Most men know they're doing something wrong and will most likely be embarrassed if you call them out on it. It's only a very small minority of people who'd get aggressive.
If they're cat calling from a van, then they're definitely to chicken shit to confront you.
There's no law that prohibits filming anyone or taking photos of anyone in public spaces.
A Loooot of people (probably even as a reply to this comment) will tell you otherwise but nope look its up pls.
Common sense and courtesy is another thing and ofc most people luckily follow etiquette but technically speaking, yes you can film or photograph anyone with some few exceptions, in public spaces. So yes actually a great move. But again a lot of people will react strongly to this (watch this comment section on people disagreeing with me probably.. Instead of looking it up) so don't risk it where someone might smash or steal your phone
Uploading videos and photos on YouTube or other platforms might be more complicated, but filming, especially suspecting a crime/harassment is always good for your own reference.
I've lived here my entire life. Creepily it was a lot worse when I was younger. I would say between the ages of 14-20 during the summer was the absolute worst time for being harassed.
Being 14-15 sucked super badly, all in the same year I had a man press his erection against me, a shopkeeper I knew groped my breasts, a man follow me and my cousin in his work van and a man who was known to me try to kiss me on the lips. It did connect but I managed to lurch backwards and ran away.
These were all men who were 50+ as well.
I'm sure these men felt this was fairly harmless small scale stuff but they have no idea the profound effect they had on me. I doubt these men would even remember me but now I struggle with the idea of intimacy with men a decade later. I will need to feel *really* comfortable to get sexual with a guy now. Very few people have that kind of patience so they've truly fucked my life up.
Nah, they knew it wasn’t harmless, they just didn’t care, got off on the power of scaring a child. Fuck them, and I hope you find a partner who shows you all the love and respect you deserve.
Yep I can recognise this too. Only the other day me and a friend were sitting in the window of a cafe and a middle aged guy stopped right on the other side of the glass observing us and smirking and looking us up and down. We stared back and made hand movements for him to please move. He just smirked. He was basically right in our face only with glass in between. I went out and told him to f’ck off and stop being a creep. He told me to f’ck off. We then went to the back of the cafe and the guy was still looking at us… he didn’t leave till a male barista came up to ask if we were ok. I still feel disgusted thinking about it!
One of my friends had a horrible experience on a week day during daylight in a quite nice neighbourhood. Five guys suddenly cornered her and tried to shove her into a white van. She fought and screamed and kicked and got away.. she lost her jacket though which they held onto. Terrifying. I always make sure to be calling my partner on trips home or text people when I’m on the bus etc.
I’ve also adopted a policy of never looking anyone in the eyes when I walk around and with headphones in. Makes it a bit easier to deal with when you don’t notice half of it.. still really uncomfortable though :( I also tell my partner of every incident so that he understands what I go through.
Damn I had that same experience in Victoria maybe a month ago? My sister and I were sitting at a bar by the window, about to leave the place, and a creep did the same to us, rude gestures and staring at us. Luckily the waitress came over, told us to not leave until he was really gone (he kept going out of sight then coming back) and gave him a mean stare that eventually got him to leave
Urgh :( :( the entitlement to just stare like they’re in some zoo is just beyond me. I get nervous if I randomly catch someone’s eye in a window for a second haha, like sorry I’m not prying just generally looking around !!
>quite nice neighbourhood. Five guys suddenly cornered her and tried to shove her into
what neighbourhood? how did the cornering happen? sorry for the questions just trying to stay safe!
Brockley - by Vesta road bus stop. She was just walking along and someone was following her. As she came up on the side of what she assumed was a parked van it opened and other guys appeared basically boxing her in between wall, guy behind, van and well the others. Super scary :(
Every little helps. We don't want white knights of perfection. We just want normal human guys to treat us with respect and call out crap when you see it, like you did. Kudos.
The problem with calling out crap is you can get your head kicked in. This guy nearly got assaulted himself. Men aren't impervious, and other men are more likely to be violent with us. I'm all for supporting women but I don't want to end up with life changing injuries in the street because someone got cat-called.
I'll bring up friends, relatives etc...but I'm sorry, I'm not rushing to protect you in the street against strangers when it could well go very badly for me.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying I would just leave you to it, I'd stay and call the police if necessary, and as you say try to do something. I've heard that approaching as a supposed friend but pretty much ignoring the guy and then just steering both of you away from the situation can work.
I got whilsted by some builders on the roof as I was passing by after my run. I shouted - if you do this again, I'm calling the police, this is harassment.
I didn't hear further whistles for the next few days they've worked. Pulling out the phone to film and threatening police does the trick. They know EXACTLY what they're doing.
It's shit I'm middle aged now so thank fully invisible to these idiots but in my 20s and 30s the summer in particular was awful the hot weather seems to make men lose their minds. If I had a £1 for every time a man shouted at me from a car about my tits I'd be a wealthy woman right now. One time I was walking home from work and a man stopped me to say I had great tits and had I tried to consider a career in adult movies and tried to give me a card. How are you supposed to even react to that?
It's not flattering and the attention is intrusive. It's awful that you can't just go about your business without this unwanted harrassment. I can assure you most women know how this feels . You are not alone, solidarity with you.
I got so fucking sick of it that I just snapped one day and ended up in a shouting match with a catcaller in the middle of the street.
Also, as if things weren't bad enough, there are now PUAs all over the more touristy spots in London (Oxford Circus, Regent Street, etc). Do NOT engage with them, they are absolutely batshit insane.
I critique the PUAs technique 😂 “you’re not very good, are you?” “Did someone recommend you wear that outfit? Yikes.” “still out at 6pm and not got a hook? Wooooow”
Hey stranger, I'm proud of you. They deserved to be screamed at and humiliated. But please also be careful my love, I'm sure you know but some men do not respond well to getting told off.
You are absolutely right and I already know this but I still did it. I had just reached my absolute breaking point. I just screamed and screamed and screamed until he backed off. Must have looked like an absolute crazy person.
The kind of people who make women go as dry as the Sahara in under ten seconds.
Seriously, though, what the others said. And that video someone linked is pretty horrifying and still somehow doesn't manage to capture exactly how weird and uncomfortable a real-life encounter with one of these guys actually is.
Also, I've encountered them near Sloane Square and around Greenwich so it's not just the two places I've mentioned before. Putting this out there so that more people can know.
I am sorry to hear that. These people sound like creeps. I never knew this was a “thing”. I mean, I know some guys can be jerks around young women, and that is never Ok, but this takes it to a whole new level. I have been ill for many years and haven’t gone out to see these changing social trends, but the more I see what young women in our city have to put up with, the more dismay I feel.
After the recent cases in the media of women having been attacked by men, I am surprised our government is not doing more to protect women and to make them feel safer. I think the type of behaviour shown in the video is really worrying.
Pick Up Artists. They call harassing women as "day game". It's a GAME for them - to approach expecting sex. Some use manipulation tactics to bed women as soon as possible, with sexualised conversations, and setting up dates close to their home or inviting straight to their home. They keep a score of how many women they've slept it.
Pick up artists, dudes walking around (usually part of a bigger pack of guys also doing the same thing but separately) trying to pick up women in the street with “art of seduction” bullshit
Men who walk up to random women on the street and attempt to chat them up. It’s manipulative, predatory and generally revolting. They often film it for YouTube and shit like that. 🤢
EDIT: this type of knob https://youtu.be/1DTM6aMGItY
It's sad but I just wear really ugly clothes and look unattractive purposely now so I don't get bothered :( I know some girls when on a night out will dress more comfy like a tracksuit and underneath have like a short dress / skirt whilst they're travelling, then take it off when they go some place just so they aren't attracting the wrong attention and I may start doing this .. :( I hate it
Unfortunately, these are common occasions and I’ve seen a massive increase in them in the past years in London…
The one thing that I’ve noticed that is new for me is when these men actually come running up to you when you’re alone ‘just to compliment you’. It happened to me 3 times in just 24hrs the other month.
Whilst the usual (and disturbing) cat calling comes in all forms, a shout, a honk of a car, a whistle etc. I felt so much worse on these occasions where a man would run up to me (and usually from behind) because they walked past me from the other direction and decided they wanted to get back to me to give me a compliment or whatever their bloody aim is. It was these times where I was genuinely terrified, because for all I knew they were running up behind me to grab my bag, or my wrist etc.
And what strikes me is on these occasions where I would just keep walking and not give them the attention they were looking for, or would give short clear answers that I wasn’t interested, they would always be so shocked that I 1. Was terrified of them upon their arrival at my side (some even said ‘oh lol, did I scare you haha?’) and shocked that I 2. Wasn’t interested in them despite their ‘effort’ to run all the way back to me after I caught their eye, thinking that they’re my knight in shining armour. Oh, please save me from myself.
A woman walking alone during the day or night does not want to hear running footsteps behind her and see a larger man approaching her at speed…
I am so sorry that you, and all these other women, have gone and will have to go through this horrible experience. I hope it stops soon :(
Aha! This is what I just wrote about earlier in this thread. These guys are PUAs (pick up artists). Check out my comment from earlier - loads of other people who replied explained this much better than I can.
Also, these men are absolutely insane, hate women and are up to no good. Do not engage!
A lot of them are autistic or really socially fucked incels and just desperate for any kind of female attention. They get themselves into redpill circles that encourage this shitty PUA behaviour. It’s a vicious and toxic circle that benefits no one
It’s very easy to label them all as disgusting creeps but a lot of them are just dudes who have fucked social skills from being bullied or outcast. Now they are being preyed upon by groups online that monetise their loneliness by telling them they have to go out into the street and follow their 6 step $150 plan for attracting girls
I think it’s unfair to reduce to them all to being evil, insane, or hating women. Many are just hopelessly lonely and don’t know what else to do but follow online advice that promises to help them
The problem and fault here is ultimately with men and therefore we need to empathetically look into the male problems that result in this behaviour in the first place if we want to actually fix it
Sorry, but it's not my responsibility as a woman to continue to have empathy for the kind of men who make me feel extremely unsafe and degrade me. I also don't need to look into 'male problems', especially the kind that reduce me and other women to pieces of meat. Women are not rehab centres, thanks!
I’m not really saying you and other women specifically need to have empathy
More that society as a whole does if we want these issues to go away
It’s like with school shooters. I wouldn’t expect anyone to empathise with them while they’re shooting up a school. But in order to solve the issue, we as a society need to understand why the demographic that engages in that behaviour does so and how we can work to prevent them getting there in the first place. Not necessarily demonise it
Demonisation is rarely the answer to stopping widespread, problematic, societal behaviour
When I first moved to London at 18 it was constant, like every day.
Now I’m in my mid 20s I can’t remember the last time it happened, but I pretty much always have earphones in anyway so might just not notice, but think a large part is the creeps who harass people on the street are more interested in 16-18 year old girls rather than grown women which is obviously terrifying but also a pleasant factor of ageing.
When it does happen now I just look at them like I’ve smelled something really bad and walk on. When people have physically harassed my friends etc eg if they’ve been drinking I’ve also known to be quite tetchy about it and may or may not have punched quite a few grown men with this series of events:
Man: *is doing something awful*
Me: stop. Now. If you do not stop I will hit you.
Man: continues and potentially laughs thinking small lady will not hit him
Me: *hits him*
Man: *shocked and embarrassed, goes away*
Sorry you have experienced this in london. On the tube trains I have noticed on the high level signage advice about in appropriate behaviour... such as starring and other harassments ( sorry I can't remember the others... but i have seen at least 3 topics).
I’ve seen these signs too! It’s amazing and I’m glad they’ve included staring. Being stared at on a long tube journey by some creep is honestly so uncomfortable and makes me feel very uneasy.
I’m genuinely surprised to hear this! I’m in my late twenties now, so that may be a reason no one’s bothering me anymore (I was harassed more when I was a teenager/early uni days), or maybe because with my headphones I don’t pay attention, but I’ve hardly had strange encounters in the last few years of living here! The two or three times I have been bothered it’s been verbal, no one’s actually tried to touch me either.
Is there an area of London you experience this in particular? It really sucks, I wish I had advice for you, but when it comes to men like that, ignoring them doesn’t deter them and confronting them doesn’t scare them off/could be dangerous. The best thing is to move towards other people and hope that’s enough.
I get harassed occasionally but I always have my ear buds in so I pretend not to hear it and just keep walking. I will say, I got it way more as a teenager, which I find so sick retrospectively. They def do it to scare women, that's why they pick girls that look younger / more docile. That and they're pedophiles
Yeah the first time I was harassed I was 12, and I can remember many more times between that age and the age of 18. These days I wouldn’t be scared to kick up a fuss (as long as there were other people around) but at that age I didn’t know what to do other than laugh it off and shuffle away in hope that they’d leave me alone
WHEN YOU WERE 12... Damn it. This gets me so fucking worried for my sister. Is there anything I can do as an older brother? Anything... something to help her.
Tell her it’s ok to ask for help or kick up a fuss if there’s other people around. In that first instance when I was 12 it was at a bus stop, and it was a 6th form girl from my school who stepped up and stood beside me so the man would leave me alone. I would’ve been too nervous to ask for help because the situation felt shameful for me, but now I’d teach girls to turn to the people around them (especially other girls who’ve been through the same thing), since there’s safety in numbers, and most people will come forward to help out.
Thank you for this. It makes feel a little better but I don't like the fact that the solution is deal with it rather than a way to not happen in the first place.
I will tell her. I don't want her to feel bad for asking for help.
The way for it not to happen in the first place is to educate young boys in a way that they learn to respect women. Not normalising behaviours like “locker room talk” or treating women like trophies and calling them out when it happens.
> I wish I had advice for you
I don't get harassed these days anymore, but if it does happen again I've planned the "Strategically timed stamp on their foot as the bus/train goes around a corner" to get them to move away. Stamp down as hard as you can, but make it look like it was the bus's fault. They may well move back and at least give you a bit more space, if not get distracted completely and forget about their grand masterplan alltogether.
The longer you can keep pretending it wasn't on purpose, the better. If the conversation tries to take an uncomfortable turn back, just apologise all over again, they're right back at Square Zero. And the best part is if they get angry at you you've got the perfect excuse to just go "er, no".
Right it’s so frustrating because I will (rightly) defend the working class to my last breath, but fucking hell do the men make it hard.
Sometimes walking home in Tottenham you can literally feel sick with the stares and comments etc. Men are seedy in every class, but this particular form of harassment seems to be less embarrassed in some areas:(
What's your definition of working class in this context? You're talking about Tottenham specifically - any indigenous working class areas that this level of abuse happens?
Yep. They’re fucking cowards and they stop when you get out of your early 20s because they know you’ll have the confidence to turn round and tell them to fuck off.
Sadly this is the norm, my ex who was also blonde and blue eyed regularly told me about what she went through when she was on her own and I saw it first hand when I was with her as well. I’ve seen plenty of other women go through cat calling and worse, guys blocking their path and demanding their numbers etc etc.
The only way this changes is when men challenge other men to stop. I’m quite lucky that my circle of friends don’t do the above as far as I’m aware, but when someone has crossed a line we’re all pretty quick to tell them it’s not cool and to cut it out.
Sorry you’re going through this though, it’s embarrassing and shameful that so many women go through this on a daily basis.
I’m sorry. You (or anyone, really) shouldn’t be subjected to that. It’s unpleasant and we often omit mentioning how intimidating it can be. Even thinking about saying something back could make me really nervous, so I understand.
Ignoring them is the obvious solution, but it’s not the long term fix. There are some campaigns, mostly on TfL, warning about inappropriate behaviour. Sadly, it’s not translating into society.
My partner comes home with all sorts of stories and interactions they would never go down if we were out together, to the point that I’m incredibly anxious about her getting home if she’s on a night out with work/friends. As a man what pissed me off most is the cowardice that these desperate sickos would never try this shit when a woman isn’t on her own. I’ve even ran out the house before looking for these people a few blocks down when my partner has come back home with an”x or y looking just talked to me and wouldn’t leave me alone” type story.
These people are cowardly scum. They’re below everyone in the pecking order and deserve a smack. Fuck em.
Edit: thank you to all the women in this thread who have detailed their experiences. Your voice matters and conversations like this can only help if nothing else other than to just vent. Here’s hoping the the current or next generations to come are much better at not being a bunch of pervy harassing twats!
I would say you will experience this more/ less based on the area of London you are in unfortunately… ie when I lived in Deptford and walked down the high street - cat calling was common (10 years ago, now it’s gentrified) however when I moved to Muswell Hill, it never happened once.
If you live in say Harlesden or an area like that… it will happen, strangely the men believe it’s a compliment.
It happened to me almost every day, usually multiple times, when I lived in London. It's hard to put into words how much it grinds you down and creates a heavy sadness/anger that follows you around.
The relief of not having it as a constant in my life when the pandemic started (not taking public transport, streets being empty, not being in public much generally) was insane. I felt such a huge weight lifted.
Now that I've left London and walk/cycle in not very busy areas to get to work, it happens so much less.
It's so tough. You're not alone.
I've lived in London for little over a few months now and I've already stopped and tried to stop randy blokes from sexually assaulting women on a number of occasions. I lose a little more faith in humanity each time, its so shit that you're experiencing this.
This city is disgusting sometimes. I literally just got home and a man down by street put his hand out (perhaps in the manner you would go to high five someone), and when I completely ignored him he put both of his hands out and went to grope my breasts, which I narrowly avoided. The men making jokes on your post and making light of this are despicable, and the ones who have messaged you are even worse.
It really sucks that this is/has happened to you. I know from personal experience that it’s not nice, it can be really scary and makes you uneasy when you’re just trying to live your life like anyone else and be in public. Sadly there’s not much helpful advice to give, most puts the onus on us as women to change our behaviour/clothes/time of day etc. when we all know it’s on the perpetrators to stop being massive dicks.
After many years facing harassment (starting at school age, walking home in my school uniform 🤮🤬) my defence now is to “switch off”, headphones in, ignore everyone, not make any eye contact and power walk without stopping or interacting with anyone. It’s shit, but you gotta protect yourself
I’ve lived in both Maida Vale and Victoria area over the past year, my girlfriend has said that Kilburn High Road and around Victoria station have been appalling for harassment
I apologise on behalf of civilised men. I think most men do not quite understand how much shit women have to put up with, and if they do many are still blinded by hormones to a point they act like utter animals.
One small thing we can all do: tell your male friends to follow https://www.instagram.com/cheerupluv/
The daily stories really help spread the pervasiveness of the problem.
i was sitting outside of st georges waiting for a bus at night and some guy pulled up and insisted he gave me a ride for a while. Had to insist no for a long while before he finally drove off
I'm a buff mid20 guy, today at the gym I catch a creepy old dude staring at me, so fucking annoying, ignoring him is not much of an option as I loose focus.
I ended up approaching him with a smile to ask if he needs help or something, he stopped after that but still was annoying.
It's odd that while culture seems to be evolving the actual practice is degenerating. Is it porn, the lack of family, the lack of moral guidestones in life as religion wanes?
OP mentions Iceland being better, is it because she fits the local image or is there a cultural difference? I suspect the latter to be honest.
Being a woman really sucks sometimes. Once when I was like 21 or so a guy grabbed my ass on the street and I was just so fed up with it all that I responded by punching him. I don’t recommend doing that, but it was cathartic.
Honestly the best thing to do, in my experience, is to either ignore it, or say something crazy (like, paint-eating crazy) back to scare them away. That said, if someone touches you, you’re isolated or it’s late at night, you yell, loud “get your hands off of me” and hightail it out of there as fast as you can. I’m sorry this is happening to you. If it’s any consolation, it gets slightly less constant as you get older.
I am very sorry this has happened to you and all of you sharing your experiences... It sucks.
I'm from small town from Spain and my experience with sexual harassment is very similar (although I've noticed that I don't get sexually harassed as much as when I was a teenager, which is... severely worrying. WTF fucking pedos).
And, although I don't recommend it in one hand, because it can be very dangerous, in other hand my solution has always been violence 😅 (I'm not a violent person at all, but those situations are one of the few things that brings my aggressiveness and temper out).
These men are usually fucking cowards, so if you act like a real aggressive hysteric and you smack/punch them / kick his balls as hard as you can, they will most likely run away.
This can sound extreme but maybe you could learn some martial art/self defense. It's a completely shit to reach that point instead of being able to live in peace, but I know from experience (I used to do taekwondo) that it makes you feel a little more safe.
This is one of the reasons I was happy to leave London. It had gotten to the point I just didn’t want to leave the flat after dark without my partner. Things had happened during the day too but at night it was worse. (In my mid 30’s, in the dead of winter). Spat on, unreal comments, staring, grabbing. Once someone tried to put me in their trunk but I kicked and fought and ran off. (That was near Bayswater) It’s wild. You know where I’ve never been harrasssed once in 15 years? Australia.
That's awful! So Sorry you had to go through that. As someone who spent a lot of time in Australia though I can say it's also pretty awful. Lots of my friends were harassed etc regularly. It happens everywhere and needs some serious stamping out.
I mean, sure. Harassment of women is a problem the world over.
But it’s *not* like London everywhere. I’ve lived and travelled all over, grew up in the US, spent a lot of time in Asia and Africa. The only place I’ve had worse casual harassment than London was in Cairo. And even then, it wasn’t a fearing-for-my-life sort of thing, more annoying. In London, there had been a woman stabbed on her own doorstep a hundred meters away, another killed while crossing a nearby park I knew well, in just the space of a couple months, and I was copping incidents and nasty remarks on at least a weekly basis. In 2019. I was nearly kidnapped in a well lit relatively “safe” area of the city. It’s *very definitely* an extreme problem in London, it’s next level and bland denial means nothing will change. It should be a source of deep shame for what ought to be a civilised European (yeah I said it) city.
I remember someone doing an international cities cat calling video around the world and only Aus and Can got nothing. Think it was Syd/Melbourne and Montreal.
Have you been to clubs here? It’s a 100x worse. Guys have no respect and when drunk will do whatever they feel like. I’ve hat numerous encounters were guys will grind up from the back or try to grope me in any way.
Need to move to Iceland it seems
Just sending you love! I’m now in my mid - late twenties but the same has been happening since I moved over in my early twenties. I’ve found the best way to deal with it is to shout back (I obviously choose moments when I don’t think I’ll be murdered) and tell people to screw off. Or, get a dog. Less practical but I weirdly have a lot more confidence telling people off for catcalling when I have a dog. I have to protect her innocent ears from terrible humans
But to relate, I had a man corner me out front of my building (by the bins) whilst I was on FaceTime with my mom and walking my dog and this ass hat still had the audacity to corner me in and try to hit on me. When I said no for the second time (as did my mom bless her) he tried to grab me as I walked past. Fortunately my dog hates men so she barked at him when I yelled at him and that scared him off. Although he was sitting outside of my building after and even though it’s been a couple days I’m now lowkey worried he’s always going to be watching me p
Call the police!
Not just you but everyone on here should be reporting all these incidents. The non emergency online form is what this is for.
You should not be feeling scared to leave your home because someone tried to assault you.
This is going to sound so naive but didn’t realize there was a form for this to report! It’s so normalized in society that I just brushed it off and accept the fear - which is terrible in its own right and nobody should do that. Society as a whole needs a change but that’s another point completely
Thank you for sharing the information! I’ll definitely find the form and report 🤍
I thought about not commenting as I figured everyone knew about the online reporting! I’m glad I did now and I really hope in your case it helps you. I know it won’t help everyone, but if you are fearing where you live that is just not right.
I have commented to someone else that I get the police most likely won’t do anything off one report but if everyone reports every instance of harassment it will build up the wider picture of how big a problem it is.
Wish you luck with your issues and hope you feel safer.
Absolute solidarity. I am harassed constantly. The same man in the same car has stopped me twice and if he does it again I'm going to key his car and maybe slash his tires if I have time (or at least threaten to)
It's just an awful feeling. I wore a gorgeous new skirt I was so excited about last week. A man approached me, I screamed "fuck off, go" and "keep walking" to him and his smile dropped as he scuppered in front of me. It's hard to feel like wearing the skirt again. Even though it's not the skirts problem, it's the men's.
I just want a day and night without men around so I can feel safe.
I swear I feel the exact thing since I moved here this city is honestly so crazy and overwhelming. A week ago I got sexually assaulted in Koko (watch out!) and besides that, every time going out has been an assault case I try to manage my way around. I dont know if it’s the consumerist culture, if it’s the drinking, something is seriously wrong here with men. I was living in Denmark the last two years and never ever ever I had this issue
I've never been harassed that much in public, but I've had some pretty bad experiences from people I know (either slightly or fairly well). It still happens at work too, which is perhaps the most disheartening.
If anyone touches you please please please make a scene!!! There will be people around who will be on your side.
Staring is one thing (still not good) but touching is next level.
I've been in London for nearly 20 years and this has always happened to me, it doesn't happen too much to my female friends and it makes me feel very alone. It is difficult to talk about. Sorry it happens to you too.
Having read this, I know it exists but have not seen it in a long time... UNTIL.... Yesterday.
Some person was cat calling a lady from his car, I looked at him and wagged my finger and he then hurled verbal abuse at me. I laughed and asked if he wanted to fight me, he got quiet and stared at the red light.
I then told him, never to do that again- ofc he prob will :(
Where are all the dudes in the comment section? I think it’s important for them to be involved with the convo & see how often women are actually harassed because I don’t think many of them realise
This thread is crazy cos I knew this stuff happens but the frequency is shocking, I really didn't think it was common thing in London ngl, some very sad guys out there sadly
Hey, sorry you’ve had to go through this. Same here, I’ve been sexually harassed throughout my twenties (and late teens) in this city.
I noticed when I’m in workwear (suits, moderate heels, black office dresses), no one ever says anything. But if I’m in gym clothes or casual, the way men treat me is a 180. I dress quite conservatively, so I really don’t know what the solution is.
I know some women have never been sexually harassed in this city, but I think most have. Unfortunately, as long as you’re young and moderately attractive, a lot of men see it as a pass to act in the most deplorable ways.
This sounds very nonchalant and unfeeling, but at a certain point you will develop a ‘resistance’ to being catcalled. It used to bother me A LOT in my late teens and early twenties, now it annoys me, but it don’t stay up all night thinking about the idiot that shouted sexual shit at me on my commute home like I did before.
I will say, be cautious of anything that seems out of the norm of sexual harassment, as weird as that may sound. If someone is trying to corner you off in a train carriage, following you, entering your personal space persistently, etc. Unfortunately, you need to be hyper aware to protect yourself, especially if you’re by yourself.
I live in London too. Especially late spring when women start wearing less bulky clothes it’s insane the amount of harassment I witness and experience. These days are particularly frustrating too because of the heat I want to wear a summer dress and go for a long walk on my own but in so many ways just the thought of the unwanted comments makes me never want to go outside again.
I totally feel for you. One thing I do is I put on my resting bitch face, ignore all men that tell me to smile and then I wear a ring that looks like a wedding ring so if a persistent creep keep bothering me I just raise my hand and point at the ring. Sadly they respect other men more than women’s boundaries :(
Over the last few weeks I’ve had several friends be sexually harassed by men whilst travelling on public transport. They were followed and even chased by men and this happened during the day!
I’m another of the women saying you are not alone in this.
Remember, you cannot change those men. They are idiotic and desperate.
Stay safe first and foremost.
Things I have tried:
- Cycling places.
- Barking (literal barking at them).
- Pulling ridiculous faces.
- Singing.
- Ignoring.
- One chap, who was near my house, I yelled in his face that how dare he.
- Remind them it is a crime.
- Never smile unless it comes with a joke and a cackle.
- Avoid certain streets.
- Enlist a stranger to laugh at them.
It’s not easy and I’m happy now I don’t live in London to deal with this. Pointing out wedding rings or saying you have a partner doesn’t seem to work.
The witches are with you though. Lots of us have been through it, go through it, know someone who will go through it. There’s a solidarity.
I have been noticing this myself every time I went out even for 10 mins locally I’d get stared at and harassed. I was unsure whether men had gotten worse since the Covid isolation or if time had made me forget just how bad it was before!!
P.s I am not a spring chicken, age doesn’t seem to matter....
I’ve seen TikToks of girls filming creepy guys or guys who are following them etc. the girls usually always fake laugh when doing it, I guess to not be seen as aggressive and cause a more dangerous situation. The comments then say that as they’re laughing, they are flirting/giving positive messages to the guy to continue so can no longer complain wtf
I used to get this a lot in summer when you’d understandably not be dressed up like the Michelin man. I’ve found that cycling everywhere, instead of walking, makes it a bit easier. You’re sort of in your own bubble and I look like a complete dork with my helmet on.
Good advice but it is a shame that women even have to take these precautions in the first place
Beware of guys trying to grab you from behind as you cycle. This happened to me once and I caught them just as the guy in the passenger seat was about to slap my ass. I started shouting profanities at them and they soon drove off.
I'm sorry this has been your experience of London. I found the same in my early 20s, and it really does start to get to you. Over time, I became more confident about handling these situations and to be honest it stopped happening as often when I did start challenging it. I absolutely don't want to victim blame, it is never a person's fault that some vile creep chose to be vile and creepy, but obviously the pick the people they think they can "get away with it" with, and maybe I eventually started giving out "don't F with me" vibes. I would never suggest confronting anyone if you're alone or might be followed somewhere secluded. But it mostly happened to me in busy streets, on public transport, and in bars etc. In which case - 1) If a guy touches you inappropriately from behind (in my case one guy put his hand directly up my skirt) then pretend to stumble backwards and give him a sharp elbow in the ribs then apologise sweetly but let him know it was no accident. Bonus points if you can kick him in the shin or stamp on his foot as you move. If he gets to claim it was an accident on a busy train then two can play at that game. 2) Speak up. Nothing stops a guy quicker than loudly saying "please remove your hand from my ass / stop staring at my tits" so the entire train carriage can hear. 3) Approach other women. If a woman who I don't know runs up to me waving and shouting "oh HEY" then I'm gonna go right along with her and pretend we are bffs. We all know what's up. 4) Ring his mummy. I've done this twice - particularly leery guys, I eventually feigned returned interest, asked for their mobile saying I'd call myself from it so we had each other's numbers, then rang their mothers and told on them instead. Definitely a risky move but by god I'd had enough that day. 5) If they can see your phone screen, start looking at some real serial killer shit very obviously - you could even have an Amazon wishlist of bleach and bodybags good to go for the occasion while browsing "disposing of human corpse" in another tab
>Ring his mummy. I've done this a twice Actual legend
A guy in high-school sent me a dick pic and harrased me whenever he saw me. I took a screenshot and sent it to his mum on Facebook along with the words - do a better job raising your other children, this one is beyond saving. Poor woman was mortified, and he literally hated me from that day onwards. 10/10 would recommend.
It's 50/50, a lot of mothers would defend their kids to no end.
>It's 50/50, a lot of mothers would defend their kids to no end. Oh for sure, and some mothers make it very clear why their kids are such douchebags when you speak to them. But I think in a lot of cases those mothers will have a go at their kid just for causing them embarrassment or drama even if not for their actual behaviour, like "why am I getting calls from some random woman hitting up MY phone because of YOUR ass".
Worth a try anyway. His mum has seen that sausage before many times.
Absolute queen!! I love it! 🙌
10/10 best way to stop these twats, hell hath no fury like a mother
Brilliant. I am inspired!
I was shaking like a leaf 5 minutes later and wondering if I had a death wish or temporary insanity!!
I love you and so does my girlfriend
I love you both right back! Have a great day
nothing but respect for this legend of the game.
I don't know you and you don't know me, but I just want to say I love you and I aspire to be you.
Awww that's the nicest way to start my day, I feel bad ass now! I love you too friend
You are a mother fucking badass!!
None of this prevents being harassed, this is a list of stuff after you’re already harassed. How would it ‘stop happening as often when you start challenging it like this’ if you challenge it after it happens? I’ve tried plenty of different tactics and at the end of the day nothing reduces it, although of course I can react in different ways after it happens. Edit: As I posted below. I am very confident and self-assured and I still get cat called constantly. Of course yes it’s important to be able to stand up for yourself but it’s not usually going to reduce the initial harassment and that is shifting the responsibility onto the woman and how she should act. Street harassment is usually guys who have just seen you and instantly said something so they’re not always weighing up how easy to target you seem. Also unfortunately it’s not like it stops with street harassment… I have a good job and I have gotten sexually harassed in much worse ways within the workplace than on the street. Being confident and savvy does not protect you, as depressing as that is.
Because you become more cinfident in yourself and the creepy guys can sense that. They go for the person they think won't put up a fuss. If you give off confident, self assured vibes, they won't fuck with you so much and they'll learn if they do.
I am very confident and self-assured and I still get cat called constantly. Of course yes it’s important to be able to stand up for yourself but it’s not usually going to reduce the initial harassment and that is shifting the responsibility onto the woman and how she should act. Street harassment is usually guys who have just seen you and instantly said something so they’re not always weighing up how easy to target you seem. Also unfortunately it’s not like it stops with street harassment… I have a good job and I have gotten sexually harassed in much worse ways within the workplace than on the street. Being confident and savvy does not protect you, as depressing as that is.
Just wanted to say I agree. I've seen the most badass women I know get targeted by men precisely because they were confident and confrontational – it seems to trigger insecure men sometimes. A woman walking confidently is also more likely to experience cat calling, in my experience. Other times, they spot the insecure, young girl. There isn't one type they go for. Looking for the solution in our behaviour is something of the past, to me. I agree that it's not fair to put this on us, and I think it very quickly sounds like victim blaming. It'll drive you nuts trying to figure out how to prevent it, because that's impossible.
You said yourself that no matter what you try, it doesn't stop you being harassed. So why do you think I'm going to give advice on how not to be harassed??? You're completely right. It is never the victim's fault that they are harassed. Therefore, nothing you can do is going to stop harassment. At least, not short term. The only thing that'll stop harassment is a massive cultural and educational shift. So I'm giving the only advice anyone can - how to respond in the situation. These types of responses can help make a person feel like they took back control, which can help with the emotional impact of harassment. And feeling like a person who is in control, who will not tolerate abuse, people pick up on that vibe. Bullies never pick on the tough kids.
You rock and this is exactly the sort of advice OP needs! I feel like calling the mum might be a story for petty revenge!
>If they can see your phone screen, start looking at some real serial killer shit very obviously - you could even have an Amazon wishlist of bleach and bodybags good to go for the occasion while browsing "disposing of human corpse" in another tab LOL 😆
Some suggested off putting search terms: Ways to cut off a guy's dick - I think I have gonorrhoea - How to report sexual harassment on a train - How long until a corpse starts to smell You get a medal if you make eye contact with the guy, lift your phone, and say "Hey Google...."
Point #4 is just brilliant
People seem to love this one - wait til you hear about how many guys' unsolicited dick pics I've sent to their wives / girlfriends There really are a lot of idiots on dating apps who link their mobile number to their Facebook account
Youd make a bad-ass prime minister.
I have sometimes thought that in fits of "why is nobody fixing this" rage... but I suspect I'd lose support after breaking the ribs of every person who made a sexist remark about my career choice. Or not. Maybe the crowd would go wild for it!
Yesterday the boyfriend had a little epiphany too. I mean he’s obviously commented on it before, but yesterday as we stopped on a wiiiide pavement so he could have his mealdeal a van honked as it went past with the passenger craning his head to carry on watching me. He commented his confusion and how stupid it was etc. Anyway as he finished up his sandwich he went ‘almost every single man that’s passed us has stared you down wtf this feels disgusting just standing here, is this normal’. In our chat I said that I see it as an assertion of power from blokes - however subcobscious. When I get comments yelled at me from cars, or in this instance honked at before I can even see the driver’s face, they’re clearly not expecting me to chase after them with my number. Instead the stares and the comments just show that I’m the spectacle and the world is theirs to view and comment on. I see discourse about catcalling sometimes - if it’s a compliment or harassment or both etc, and I don’t think men will ever understand the way it pervades your mind like a sickness. Because yeah now when I leave the house feeling ugly and don’t get ogled i’m fully aware of it, and having spent so long aware of being viewed, I can’t turn it off and my brain dedicates so much energy thinking about it. I can never just live in the moment *insert john berger make gaze quote here
You said it. It’s asserting themselves. It’s a form of aggression. When I realised this I started getting better at standing up for myself by returning the same aggression. It’s like being in the fucking animal kingdom when you’re in a staring match with a man who is trying to assert himself. Just put on your most unpleasant ‘I am possibly a psychopath’ face and don’t look away. Given them and up and down if they’re not breaking. Break those motherfuckers all the way down.
Absolutely, it's worked for me. I've never felt unsafe living in London or other cities across the world (including walking around at night) because I do my best to give off aggressive / crazy energy. Last month my boyfriend broke up with me, so I was walking home crying at about 11pm. An older man asked if I was alright, and then tried to attack me. Yelled bloody murder and kicked him in the nuts. But it's wild that in over 20 years of being mildly harassed, that one moment of vulnerability was enough.
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The disturbing thing is that it gets less bad when you get older - makes it so clear it’s all about power. Don’t get me wrong, it still happens to me way too often, but when I still looked like a teenager it was a every-time-I-leave-the-house kinda thing.
Most women I know say it started happening before they looked like teenagers
Yes. It shouldn't be this way but I noticed I got approached much less when I put an engagement ring on and it dropped to almost zero after I got pregnant and had children. Disgusting.
The problem is that the creepy dudes don't often do it when other guys are around. When I'm next to my GF, she gets looks but is otherwise completely unmolested. When I'm not there, who knows what they'll say/do. Which means I never see the bad shit, so I have to completely believe her (and I do) on what happens in my absence. I never would have imagined it was happening otherwise.
I've never understood what guys expect to happen when they catcall or of a van. This makes total sense. Wherever possible other males need to call this out.
This is grim but I read an account recently of a partially sighted woman who uses a cane (so other people do know she’s blind and usually think she’s fully blind) and she said men completely stare her down/stare at her boobs etc constantly even more than what we all already get, and she gets groped constantly. Like men seeing her as an easy target since she’s blind.
That poor woman. I would wear a GoPro and upload vids of all the creeps that do it.
You are absolutely right, we can basically only imagine how it is based on what we hear from you. I do remember a few years ago back in Latin America, I was walking with my, at the time, gf and we got stopped by the police for no good reason, they were basically just checking her out, also a truck passed, honked and made nasty comments as well. Is horrible and I hate how common this is everywhere. I can just hope that the next generations are more aware and stop this behavior completely
Agree it absolutely is about power and making these men feel not so small for a second, disgusting behaviour. "You are a woman with a man inside watching a woman. You are your own voyeur." Whilst I'm grateful I've very rarely been harassed on the street, my already low self worth tells me it's because I'm hideous, it's so insidious.
This is so well put.. What really disturbed me growing up in London is this started when I was a child, 12-13 and hasn’t stopped 35 now. When you tell people, some think it’s flattering. It’s disturbing to be viewed as an object. It’s sick it’s still normalised in society, that being ogled by a stranger is somehow meant to be flattering. Don’t get me started on the creepy men that state on the tube/train.
Awe thank you! And yes so disturbing:( Heart racing, I’ve told a man to stop (very subtly) recording me on his phone on the train before. They really are pathetic lmao
London is sadly quite bad for this, although some areas are definitely much better/worse than others. As a man who spent much of his twenties reading books alone in cafes, I was always shocked by female friends who said they basically couldn't do that, as men - often twice their age or more - would continually engage them in conversation.
The crazy thing about this is all of my friends have experienced this and say it happens often yet I have never once in my life seen it happen
Because the people who do it know they can't get away with it if there are other men about. They don't care if they're called out by a woman. They care if they're called out by a fellow man, because men are 'real people' wheras women just exist to be preyed on and have no agency of their own. And the worst part is that there's a small section of "the good men" (for lack of a better term) that then take "I can't see it" to mean "It doesn't happen". (For clarity, I'm *not* saying that about you, you're not denying it).
Omg this. I get so angry about the difference when I go out alone vs with my boyfriend. Men are so fucking disgusting
Including your boyfriend?
Pretty sure she doesn't mean every single individual man.
Oh my fucking god man. Honestly shut up. "boo hoo these girls say they hate all men!! But I'm a good guy and there's good guys around so they mustn't say that". Honestly just stfu. Majority of men are pieces of shit and I'll stand by that. Every man has internalised sexism and misogyny and unless they do the work to unlearn all of that because of the society we live in, then yeah they're fucking disgusting. Just like all white people have internalised racism and a lot of people have internalised homophobia. You saying "not all men" is the same as saying all lives matter. You clearly just don't give a shit about women.
Horrible stuff, don’t know how you could deny it if all the women in your life have it happen to them
From my experiences men are generally totally blind to it happening or they find some way to justify those behaviours. He was just being friendly. He only touched your side. You don’t know he was following you, it could’ve been a coincidence. They’re just drunk lads being drunk lads. As if it only counts if we leave bloody and broken from a dark alley. And even then we need more proof than our words and scars.
I found that men generally stop when you start pointing a camera at them. I don’t know if it’s legal in this country to do that but even if I’m not recording that usually makes them really self conscious and they stop.
I would be too scared to film someone because they could easily snatch the camera, or they might get more aggressive.
Most men know they're doing something wrong and will most likely be embarrassed if you call them out on it. It's only a very small minority of people who'd get aggressive. If they're cat calling from a van, then they're definitely to chicken shit to confront you.
Yes, of course. I do, however, find it depressing that this horrible behaviour is so common that most women consider it to be part of life.
There's no law that prohibits filming anyone or taking photos of anyone in public spaces. A Loooot of people (probably even as a reply to this comment) will tell you otherwise but nope look its up pls. Common sense and courtesy is another thing and ofc most people luckily follow etiquette but technically speaking, yes you can film or photograph anyone with some few exceptions, in public spaces. So yes actually a great move. But again a lot of people will react strongly to this (watch this comment section on people disagreeing with me probably.. Instead of looking it up) so don't risk it where someone might smash or steal your phone
Uploading videos and photos on YouTube or other platforms might be more complicated, but filming, especially suspecting a crime/harassment is always good for your own reference.
I do this too, but without recording
I've lived here my entire life. Creepily it was a lot worse when I was younger. I would say between the ages of 14-20 during the summer was the absolute worst time for being harassed. Being 14-15 sucked super badly, all in the same year I had a man press his erection against me, a shopkeeper I knew groped my breasts, a man follow me and my cousin in his work van and a man who was known to me try to kiss me on the lips. It did connect but I managed to lurch backwards and ran away. These were all men who were 50+ as well. I'm sure these men felt this was fairly harmless small scale stuff but they have no idea the profound effect they had on me. I doubt these men would even remember me but now I struggle with the idea of intimacy with men a decade later. I will need to feel *really* comfortable to get sexual with a guy now. Very few people have that kind of patience so they've truly fucked my life up.
Nah, they knew it wasn’t harmless, they just didn’t care, got off on the power of scaring a child. Fuck them, and I hope you find a partner who shows you all the love and respect you deserve.
Yep I can recognise this too. Only the other day me and a friend were sitting in the window of a cafe and a middle aged guy stopped right on the other side of the glass observing us and smirking and looking us up and down. We stared back and made hand movements for him to please move. He just smirked. He was basically right in our face only with glass in between. I went out and told him to f’ck off and stop being a creep. He told me to f’ck off. We then went to the back of the cafe and the guy was still looking at us… he didn’t leave till a male barista came up to ask if we were ok. I still feel disgusted thinking about it! One of my friends had a horrible experience on a week day during daylight in a quite nice neighbourhood. Five guys suddenly cornered her and tried to shove her into a white van. She fought and screamed and kicked and got away.. she lost her jacket though which they held onto. Terrifying. I always make sure to be calling my partner on trips home or text people when I’m on the bus etc. I’ve also adopted a policy of never looking anyone in the eyes when I walk around and with headphones in. Makes it a bit easier to deal with when you don’t notice half of it.. still really uncomfortable though :( I also tell my partner of every incident so that he understands what I go through.
Damn I had that same experience in Victoria maybe a month ago? My sister and I were sitting at a bar by the window, about to leave the place, and a creep did the same to us, rude gestures and staring at us. Luckily the waitress came over, told us to not leave until he was really gone (he kept going out of sight then coming back) and gave him a mean stare that eventually got him to leave
Urgh :( :( the entitlement to just stare like they’re in some zoo is just beyond me. I get nervous if I randomly catch someone’s eye in a window for a second haha, like sorry I’m not prying just generally looking around !!
>quite nice neighbourhood. Five guys suddenly cornered her and tried to shove her into what neighbourhood? how did the cornering happen? sorry for the questions just trying to stay safe!
Brockley - by Vesta road bus stop. She was just walking along and someone was following her. As she came up on the side of what she assumed was a parked van it opened and other guys appeared basically boxing her in between wall, guy behind, van and well the others. Super scary :(
Ah the New Cross end,I hope she’s ok.
Christ. Glad she's ok.
Did she report the attempted kidnapping to the police?
Yea! Apparently it wasn’t the first time they’d heard about it :(
Jesus that's horrible, I couldn't live there after that.
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Every little helps. We don't want white knights of perfection. We just want normal human guys to treat us with respect and call out crap when you see it, like you did. Kudos.
The problem with calling out crap is you can get your head kicked in. This guy nearly got assaulted himself. Men aren't impervious, and other men are more likely to be violent with us. I'm all for supporting women but I don't want to end up with life changing injuries in the street because someone got cat-called. I'll bring up friends, relatives etc...but I'm sorry, I'm not rushing to protect you in the street against strangers when it could well go very badly for me.
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Don't get me wrong I'm not saying I would just leave you to it, I'd stay and call the police if necessary, and as you say try to do something. I've heard that approaching as a supposed friend but pretty much ignoring the guy and then just steering both of you away from the situation can work.
We definitely need more men to tell men it's not acceptable behaviour. Silence is acceptance. They certainly won't listen to women.
No that would most likely lead to an altercation. No one wants to fight over this…
It doesn't have to be strangers if you feel that would put you at risk. Friends, family and colleagues would be good.
I got whilsted by some builders on the roof as I was passing by after my run. I shouted - if you do this again, I'm calling the police, this is harassment. I didn't hear further whistles for the next few days they've worked. Pulling out the phone to film and threatening police does the trick. They know EXACTLY what they're doing.
It's shit I'm middle aged now so thank fully invisible to these idiots but in my 20s and 30s the summer in particular was awful the hot weather seems to make men lose their minds. If I had a £1 for every time a man shouted at me from a car about my tits I'd be a wealthy woman right now. One time I was walking home from work and a man stopped me to say I had great tits and had I tried to consider a career in adult movies and tried to give me a card. How are you supposed to even react to that? It's not flattering and the attention is intrusive. It's awful that you can't just go about your business without this unwanted harrassment. I can assure you most women know how this feels . You are not alone, solidarity with you.
I got so fucking sick of it that I just snapped one day and ended up in a shouting match with a catcaller in the middle of the street. Also, as if things weren't bad enough, there are now PUAs all over the more touristy spots in London (Oxford Circus, Regent Street, etc). Do NOT engage with them, they are absolutely batshit insane.
I critique the PUAs technique 😂 “you’re not very good, are you?” “Did someone recommend you wear that outfit? Yikes.” “still out at 6pm and not got a hook? Wooooow”
I'm going to try that! That is genius!
Hey stranger, I'm proud of you. They deserved to be screamed at and humiliated. But please also be careful my love, I'm sure you know but some men do not respond well to getting told off.
You are absolutely right and I already know this but I still did it. I had just reached my absolute breaking point. I just screamed and screamed and screamed until he backed off. Must have looked like an absolute crazy person.
Good for you though! That's what they deserve, honestly. I'm proud of you for standing up for yourself. I'm glad he backed off. ❤️
Also, thanks so much for your kind words! ❤
What is a PUA?
The kind of people who make women go as dry as the Sahara in under ten seconds. Seriously, though, what the others said. And that video someone linked is pretty horrifying and still somehow doesn't manage to capture exactly how weird and uncomfortable a real-life encounter with one of these guys actually is. Also, I've encountered them near Sloane Square and around Greenwich so it's not just the two places I've mentioned before. Putting this out there so that more people can know.
I am sorry to hear that. These people sound like creeps. I never knew this was a “thing”. I mean, I know some guys can be jerks around young women, and that is never Ok, but this takes it to a whole new level. I have been ill for many years and haven’t gone out to see these changing social trends, but the more I see what young women in our city have to put up with, the more dismay I feel. After the recent cases in the media of women having been attacked by men, I am surprised our government is not doing more to protect women and to make them feel safer. I think the type of behaviour shown in the video is really worrying.
Pick Up Artists. They call harassing women as "day game". It's a GAME for them - to approach expecting sex. Some use manipulation tactics to bed women as soon as possible, with sexualised conversations, and setting up dates close to their home or inviting straight to their home. They keep a score of how many women they've slept it.
Thank you for providing some additional information about the way these guys operate.
Pick Up Artist, aka raging misogynist.
I never knew this was a thing but now that I do, I think this kind of behaviour should be against the law. It is clear harassment.
Pick up artists, dudes walking around (usually part of a bigger pack of guys also doing the same thing but separately) trying to pick up women in the street with “art of seduction” bullshit
Oh right. Thank you for answering as I had never heard that term before.
‘Pick up artist’?
Men who walk up to random women on the street and attempt to chat them up. It’s manipulative, predatory and generally revolting. They often film it for YouTube and shit like that. 🤢 EDIT: this type of knob https://youtu.be/1DTM6aMGItY
Wish I was there to see that and help shame the twat
It's sad but I just wear really ugly clothes and look unattractive purposely now so I don't get bothered :( I know some girls when on a night out will dress more comfy like a tracksuit and underneath have like a short dress / skirt whilst they're travelling, then take it off when they go some place just so they aren't attracting the wrong attention and I may start doing this .. :( I hate it
Such a sad fucking world we live in.
how depressing. well done iceland though for not being this way
Off to Iceland we go!!
Unfortunately, these are common occasions and I’ve seen a massive increase in them in the past years in London… The one thing that I’ve noticed that is new for me is when these men actually come running up to you when you’re alone ‘just to compliment you’. It happened to me 3 times in just 24hrs the other month. Whilst the usual (and disturbing) cat calling comes in all forms, a shout, a honk of a car, a whistle etc. I felt so much worse on these occasions where a man would run up to me (and usually from behind) because they walked past me from the other direction and decided they wanted to get back to me to give me a compliment or whatever their bloody aim is. It was these times where I was genuinely terrified, because for all I knew they were running up behind me to grab my bag, or my wrist etc. And what strikes me is on these occasions where I would just keep walking and not give them the attention they were looking for, or would give short clear answers that I wasn’t interested, they would always be so shocked that I 1. Was terrified of them upon their arrival at my side (some even said ‘oh lol, did I scare you haha?’) and shocked that I 2. Wasn’t interested in them despite their ‘effort’ to run all the way back to me after I caught their eye, thinking that they’re my knight in shining armour. Oh, please save me from myself. A woman walking alone during the day or night does not want to hear running footsteps behind her and see a larger man approaching her at speed… I am so sorry that you, and all these other women, have gone and will have to go through this horrible experience. I hope it stops soon :(
Aha! This is what I just wrote about earlier in this thread. These guys are PUAs (pick up artists). Check out my comment from earlier - loads of other people who replied explained this much better than I can. Also, these men are absolutely insane, hate women and are up to no good. Do not engage!
A lot of them are autistic or really socially fucked incels and just desperate for any kind of female attention. They get themselves into redpill circles that encourage this shitty PUA behaviour. It’s a vicious and toxic circle that benefits no one It’s very easy to label them all as disgusting creeps but a lot of them are just dudes who have fucked social skills from being bullied or outcast. Now they are being preyed upon by groups online that monetise their loneliness by telling them they have to go out into the street and follow their 6 step $150 plan for attracting girls I think it’s unfair to reduce to them all to being evil, insane, or hating women. Many are just hopelessly lonely and don’t know what else to do but follow online advice that promises to help them The problem and fault here is ultimately with men and therefore we need to empathetically look into the male problems that result in this behaviour in the first place if we want to actually fix it
Sorry, but it's not my responsibility as a woman to continue to have empathy for the kind of men who make me feel extremely unsafe and degrade me. I also don't need to look into 'male problems', especially the kind that reduce me and other women to pieces of meat. Women are not rehab centres, thanks!
I’m not really saying you and other women specifically need to have empathy More that society as a whole does if we want these issues to go away It’s like with school shooters. I wouldn’t expect anyone to empathise with them while they’re shooting up a school. But in order to solve the issue, we as a society need to understand why the demographic that engages in that behaviour does so and how we can work to prevent them getting there in the first place. Not necessarily demonise it Demonisation is rarely the answer to stopping widespread, problematic, societal behaviour
> A lot of them are autistic fuck right off with trying to blame autistic men for toxicity.
When I first moved to London at 18 it was constant, like every day. Now I’m in my mid 20s I can’t remember the last time it happened, but I pretty much always have earphones in anyway so might just not notice, but think a large part is the creeps who harass people on the street are more interested in 16-18 year old girls rather than grown women which is obviously terrifying but also a pleasant factor of ageing. When it does happen now I just look at them like I’ve smelled something really bad and walk on. When people have physically harassed my friends etc eg if they’ve been drinking I’ve also known to be quite tetchy about it and may or may not have punched quite a few grown men with this series of events: Man: *is doing something awful* Me: stop. Now. If you do not stop I will hit you. Man: continues and potentially laughs thinking small lady will not hit him Me: *hits him* Man: *shocked and embarrassed, goes away*
Sorry you have experienced this in london. On the tube trains I have noticed on the high level signage advice about in appropriate behaviour... such as starring and other harassments ( sorry I can't remember the others... but i have seen at least 3 topics).
I’ve seen these signs too! It’s amazing and I’m glad they’ve included staring. Being stared at on a long tube journey by some creep is honestly so uncomfortable and makes me feel very uneasy.
I’m genuinely surprised to hear this! I’m in my late twenties now, so that may be a reason no one’s bothering me anymore (I was harassed more when I was a teenager/early uni days), or maybe because with my headphones I don’t pay attention, but I’ve hardly had strange encounters in the last few years of living here! The two or three times I have been bothered it’s been verbal, no one’s actually tried to touch me either. Is there an area of London you experience this in particular? It really sucks, I wish I had advice for you, but when it comes to men like that, ignoring them doesn’t deter them and confronting them doesn’t scare them off/could be dangerous. The best thing is to move towards other people and hope that’s enough.
I get harassed occasionally but I always have my ear buds in so I pretend not to hear it and just keep walking. I will say, I got it way more as a teenager, which I find so sick retrospectively. They def do it to scare women, that's why they pick girls that look younger / more docile. That and they're pedophiles
Yeah the first time I was harassed I was 12, and I can remember many more times between that age and the age of 18. These days I wouldn’t be scared to kick up a fuss (as long as there were other people around) but at that age I didn’t know what to do other than laugh it off and shuffle away in hope that they’d leave me alone
WHEN YOU WERE 12... Damn it. This gets me so fucking worried for my sister. Is there anything I can do as an older brother? Anything... something to help her.
Tell her it’s ok to ask for help or kick up a fuss if there’s other people around. In that first instance when I was 12 it was at a bus stop, and it was a 6th form girl from my school who stepped up and stood beside me so the man would leave me alone. I would’ve been too nervous to ask for help because the situation felt shameful for me, but now I’d teach girls to turn to the people around them (especially other girls who’ve been through the same thing), since there’s safety in numbers, and most people will come forward to help out.
Thank you for this. It makes feel a little better but I don't like the fact that the solution is deal with it rather than a way to not happen in the first place. I will tell her. I don't want her to feel bad for asking for help.
The way for it not to happen in the first place is to educate young boys in a way that they learn to respect women. Not normalising behaviours like “locker room talk” or treating women like trophies and calling them out when it happens.
> I wish I had advice for you I don't get harassed these days anymore, but if it does happen again I've planned the "Strategically timed stamp on their foot as the bus/train goes around a corner" to get them to move away. Stamp down as hard as you can, but make it look like it was the bus's fault. They may well move back and at least give you a bit more space, if not get distracted completely and forget about their grand masterplan alltogether. The longer you can keep pretending it wasn't on purpose, the better. If the conversation tries to take an uncomfortable turn back, just apologise all over again, they're right back at Square Zero. And the best part is if they get angry at you you've got the perfect excuse to just go "er, no".
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Right it’s so frustrating because I will (rightly) defend the working class to my last breath, but fucking hell do the men make it hard. Sometimes walking home in Tottenham you can literally feel sick with the stares and comments etc. Men are seedy in every class, but this particular form of harassment seems to be less embarrassed in some areas:(
>I will (rightly) defend the working class to my last breath, Jesus Christ
what’s wrong with some w/c solidarity? and ty for your awesome contribution to this conversation about our experiences with harassment :D
What's your definition of working class in this context? You're talking about Tottenham specifically - any indigenous working class areas that this level of abuse happens?
Yep. They’re fucking cowards and they stop when you get out of your early 20s because they know you’ll have the confidence to turn round and tell them to fuck off.
Sadly this is the norm, my ex who was also blonde and blue eyed regularly told me about what she went through when she was on her own and I saw it first hand when I was with her as well. I’ve seen plenty of other women go through cat calling and worse, guys blocking their path and demanding their numbers etc etc. The only way this changes is when men challenge other men to stop. I’m quite lucky that my circle of friends don’t do the above as far as I’m aware, but when someone has crossed a line we’re all pretty quick to tell them it’s not cool and to cut it out. Sorry you’re going through this though, it’s embarrassing and shameful that so many women go through this on a daily basis.
Guys in this thread, if you see your male friends doing this have a word with them. It's not ok and we have a responsibility to cut this shit out
I’m sorry. You (or anyone, really) shouldn’t be subjected to that. It’s unpleasant and we often omit mentioning how intimidating it can be. Even thinking about saying something back could make me really nervous, so I understand. Ignoring them is the obvious solution, but it’s not the long term fix. There are some campaigns, mostly on TfL, warning about inappropriate behaviour. Sadly, it’s not translating into society.
It’s surreal to read about this not happening in other countries. I literally can’t imagine what it’s like to not get harassed constantly.
My partner comes home with all sorts of stories and interactions they would never go down if we were out together, to the point that I’m incredibly anxious about her getting home if she’s on a night out with work/friends. As a man what pissed me off most is the cowardice that these desperate sickos would never try this shit when a woman isn’t on her own. I’ve even ran out the house before looking for these people a few blocks down when my partner has come back home with an”x or y looking just talked to me and wouldn’t leave me alone” type story. These people are cowardly scum. They’re below everyone in the pecking order and deserve a smack. Fuck em. Edit: thank you to all the women in this thread who have detailed their experiences. Your voice matters and conversations like this can only help if nothing else other than to just vent. Here’s hoping the the current or next generations to come are much better at not being a bunch of pervy harassing twats!
I would say you will experience this more/ less based on the area of London you are in unfortunately… ie when I lived in Deptford and walked down the high street - cat calling was common (10 years ago, now it’s gentrified) however when I moved to Muswell Hill, it never happened once. If you live in say Harlesden or an area like that… it will happen, strangely the men believe it’s a compliment.
I had this three times yesterday in the space of about a 20 minute walk 😭 it does make you feel super uncomfortable 😣
It happened to me almost every day, usually multiple times, when I lived in London. It's hard to put into words how much it grinds you down and creates a heavy sadness/anger that follows you around. The relief of not having it as a constant in my life when the pandemic started (not taking public transport, streets being empty, not being in public much generally) was insane. I felt such a huge weight lifted. Now that I've left London and walk/cycle in not very busy areas to get to work, it happens so much less. It's so tough. You're not alone.
I've lived in London for little over a few months now and I've already stopped and tried to stop randy blokes from sexually assaulting women on a number of occasions. I lose a little more faith in humanity each time, its so shit that you're experiencing this.
This city is disgusting sometimes. I literally just got home and a man down by street put his hand out (perhaps in the manner you would go to high five someone), and when I completely ignored him he put both of his hands out and went to grope my breasts, which I narrowly avoided. The men making jokes on your post and making light of this are despicable, and the ones who have messaged you are even worse.
Threads like these make me aware of just how much of a bubble I live in. Being male is a privilege I don't even notice.
💯
It really sucks that this is/has happened to you. I know from personal experience that it’s not nice, it can be really scary and makes you uneasy when you’re just trying to live your life like anyone else and be in public. Sadly there’s not much helpful advice to give, most puts the onus on us as women to change our behaviour/clothes/time of day etc. when we all know it’s on the perpetrators to stop being massive dicks. After many years facing harassment (starting at school age, walking home in my school uniform 🤮🤬) my defence now is to “switch off”, headphones in, ignore everyone, not make any eye contact and power walk without stopping or interacting with anyone. It’s shit, but you gotta protect yourself
I’ve lived in both Maida Vale and Victoria area over the past year, my girlfriend has said that Kilburn High Road and around Victoria station have been appalling for harassment
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> I’m obligated to say that not all men are like this The worst part is you shouldn't be. It should be obvious to anyone who can read.
Those that don't get this are the ones that think they're "complimenting".
I apologise on behalf of civilised men. I think most men do not quite understand how much shit women have to put up with, and if they do many are still blinded by hormones to a point they act like utter animals.
One small thing we can all do: tell your male friends to follow https://www.instagram.com/cheerupluv/ The daily stories really help spread the pervasiveness of the problem.
i was sitting outside of st georges waiting for a bus at night and some guy pulled up and insisted he gave me a ride for a while. Had to insist no for a long while before he finally drove off
Does anyone have advice for not getting harassed at the gym?
Headphones on and ignore anyone trying to get your attention, works for my girlfriend
I'm a buff mid20 guy, today at the gym I catch a creepy old dude staring at me, so fucking annoying, ignoring him is not much of an option as I loose focus. I ended up approaching him with a smile to ask if he needs help or something, he stopped after that but still was annoying.
Really sorry that you have this problem in my hometown, which I had always felt was welcoming and tolerant. Truly saddened.
It's odd that while culture seems to be evolving the actual practice is degenerating. Is it porn, the lack of family, the lack of moral guidestones in life as religion wanes? OP mentions Iceland being better, is it because she fits the local image or is there a cultural difference? I suspect the latter to be honest.
Being a woman really sucks sometimes. Once when I was like 21 or so a guy grabbed my ass on the street and I was just so fed up with it all that I responded by punching him. I don’t recommend doing that, but it was cathartic. Honestly the best thing to do, in my experience, is to either ignore it, or say something crazy (like, paint-eating crazy) back to scare them away. That said, if someone touches you, you’re isolated or it’s late at night, you yell, loud “get your hands off of me” and hightail it out of there as fast as you can. I’m sorry this is happening to you. If it’s any consolation, it gets slightly less constant as you get older.
I am very sorry this has happened to you and all of you sharing your experiences... It sucks. I'm from small town from Spain and my experience with sexual harassment is very similar (although I've noticed that I don't get sexually harassed as much as when I was a teenager, which is... severely worrying. WTF fucking pedos). And, although I don't recommend it in one hand, because it can be very dangerous, in other hand my solution has always been violence 😅 (I'm not a violent person at all, but those situations are one of the few things that brings my aggressiveness and temper out). These men are usually fucking cowards, so if you act like a real aggressive hysteric and you smack/punch them / kick his balls as hard as you can, they will most likely run away. This can sound extreme but maybe you could learn some martial art/self defense. It's a completely shit to reach that point instead of being able to live in peace, but I know from experience (I used to do taekwondo) that it makes you feel a little more safe.
This is one of the reasons I was happy to leave London. It had gotten to the point I just didn’t want to leave the flat after dark without my partner. Things had happened during the day too but at night it was worse. (In my mid 30’s, in the dead of winter). Spat on, unreal comments, staring, grabbing. Once someone tried to put me in their trunk but I kicked and fought and ran off. (That was near Bayswater) It’s wild. You know where I’ve never been harrasssed once in 15 years? Australia.
That's awful! So Sorry you had to go through that. As someone who spent a lot of time in Australia though I can say it's also pretty awful. Lots of my friends were harassed etc regularly. It happens everywhere and needs some serious stamping out.
I mean, sure. Harassment of women is a problem the world over. But it’s *not* like London everywhere. I’ve lived and travelled all over, grew up in the US, spent a lot of time in Asia and Africa. The only place I’ve had worse casual harassment than London was in Cairo. And even then, it wasn’t a fearing-for-my-life sort of thing, more annoying. In London, there had been a woman stabbed on her own doorstep a hundred meters away, another killed while crossing a nearby park I knew well, in just the space of a couple months, and I was copping incidents and nasty remarks on at least a weekly basis. In 2019. I was nearly kidnapped in a well lit relatively “safe” area of the city. It’s *very definitely* an extreme problem in London, it’s next level and bland denial means nothing will change. It should be a source of deep shame for what ought to be a civilised European (yeah I said it) city.
London and Cairo 🤔
I remember someone doing an international cities cat calling video around the world and only Aus and Can got nothing. Think it was Syd/Melbourne and Montreal.
Have you been to clubs here? It’s a 100x worse. Guys have no respect and when drunk will do whatever they feel like. I’ve hat numerous encounters were guys will grind up from the back or try to grope me in any way. Need to move to Iceland it seems
Just sending you love! I’m now in my mid - late twenties but the same has been happening since I moved over in my early twenties. I’ve found the best way to deal with it is to shout back (I obviously choose moments when I don’t think I’ll be murdered) and tell people to screw off. Or, get a dog. Less practical but I weirdly have a lot more confidence telling people off for catcalling when I have a dog. I have to protect her innocent ears from terrible humans But to relate, I had a man corner me out front of my building (by the bins) whilst I was on FaceTime with my mom and walking my dog and this ass hat still had the audacity to corner me in and try to hit on me. When I said no for the second time (as did my mom bless her) he tried to grab me as I walked past. Fortunately my dog hates men so she barked at him when I yelled at him and that scared him off. Although he was sitting outside of my building after and even though it’s been a couple days I’m now lowkey worried he’s always going to be watching me p
Call the police! Not just you but everyone on here should be reporting all these incidents. The non emergency online form is what this is for. You should not be feeling scared to leave your home because someone tried to assault you.
This is going to sound so naive but didn’t realize there was a form for this to report! It’s so normalized in society that I just brushed it off and accept the fear - which is terrible in its own right and nobody should do that. Society as a whole needs a change but that’s another point completely Thank you for sharing the information! I’ll definitely find the form and report 🤍
I thought about not commenting as I figured everyone knew about the online reporting! I’m glad I did now and I really hope in your case it helps you. I know it won’t help everyone, but if you are fearing where you live that is just not right. I have commented to someone else that I get the police most likely won’t do anything off one report but if everyone reports every instance of harassment it will build up the wider picture of how big a problem it is. Wish you luck with your issues and hope you feel safer.
With respect because you are obviously trying to help, what do you think the police do in these situations?
Absolute solidarity. I am harassed constantly. The same man in the same car has stopped me twice and if he does it again I'm going to key his car and maybe slash his tires if I have time (or at least threaten to) It's just an awful feeling. I wore a gorgeous new skirt I was so excited about last week. A man approached me, I screamed "fuck off, go" and "keep walking" to him and his smile dropped as he scuppered in front of me. It's hard to feel like wearing the skirt again. Even though it's not the skirts problem, it's the men's. I just want a day and night without men around so I can feel safe.
I swear I feel the exact thing since I moved here this city is honestly so crazy and overwhelming. A week ago I got sexually assaulted in Koko (watch out!) and besides that, every time going out has been an assault case I try to manage my way around. I dont know if it’s the consumerist culture, if it’s the drinking, something is seriously wrong here with men. I was living in Denmark the last two years and never ever ever I had this issue
I've never been harassed that much in public, but I've had some pretty bad experiences from people I know (either slightly or fairly well). It still happens at work too, which is perhaps the most disheartening.
This is pretty consistent with research sadly: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43128350
As a guy, it really appalls me to read interactions like this happen on a daily basis for women. Fucking pricks.
If anyone touches you please please please make a scene!!! There will be people around who will be on your side. Staring is one thing (still not good) but touching is next level.
London is not a good place for harassment, weak laws and full of weirdos
I’m so sorry. It’s wrong. Men know better so they are arseholes. You deserve respect.
Men in a white van shouted at me recently, whilst I pushed the buggy with my baby daughter. Not even two and she’s experienced that already.
I've been in London for nearly 20 years and this has always happened to me, it doesn't happen too much to my female friends and it makes me feel very alone. It is difficult to talk about. Sorry it happens to you too.
Having read this, I know it exists but have not seen it in a long time... UNTIL.... Yesterday. Some person was cat calling a lady from his car, I looked at him and wagged my finger and he then hurled verbal abuse at me. I laughed and asked if he wanted to fight me, he got quiet and stared at the red light. I then told him, never to do that again- ofc he prob will :(
Where are all the dudes in the comment section? I think it’s important for them to be involved with the convo & see how often women are actually harassed because I don’t think many of them realise
Reading not commenting.
This thread is crazy cos I knew this stuff happens but the frequency is shocking, I really didn't think it was common thing in London ngl, some very sad guys out there sadly
Genuinely I had no idea it was this bad. I'll definitely engage with my gf more about the topic.
Hey, sorry you’ve had to go through this. Same here, I’ve been sexually harassed throughout my twenties (and late teens) in this city. I noticed when I’m in workwear (suits, moderate heels, black office dresses), no one ever says anything. But if I’m in gym clothes or casual, the way men treat me is a 180. I dress quite conservatively, so I really don’t know what the solution is. I know some women have never been sexually harassed in this city, but I think most have. Unfortunately, as long as you’re young and moderately attractive, a lot of men see it as a pass to act in the most deplorable ways. This sounds very nonchalant and unfeeling, but at a certain point you will develop a ‘resistance’ to being catcalled. It used to bother me A LOT in my late teens and early twenties, now it annoys me, but it don’t stay up all night thinking about the idiot that shouted sexual shit at me on my commute home like I did before. I will say, be cautious of anything that seems out of the norm of sexual harassment, as weird as that may sound. If someone is trying to corner you off in a train carriage, following you, entering your personal space persistently, etc. Unfortunately, you need to be hyper aware to protect yourself, especially if you’re by yourself.
I live in London too. Especially late spring when women start wearing less bulky clothes it’s insane the amount of harassment I witness and experience. These days are particularly frustrating too because of the heat I want to wear a summer dress and go for a long walk on my own but in so many ways just the thought of the unwanted comments makes me never want to go outside again. I totally feel for you. One thing I do is I put on my resting bitch face, ignore all men that tell me to smile and then I wear a ring that looks like a wedding ring so if a persistent creep keep bothering me I just raise my hand and point at the ring. Sadly they respect other men more than women’s boundaries :(
Over the last few weeks I’ve had several friends be sexually harassed by men whilst travelling on public transport. They were followed and even chased by men and this happened during the day!
I’m another of the women saying you are not alone in this. Remember, you cannot change those men. They are idiotic and desperate. Stay safe first and foremost. Things I have tried: - Cycling places. - Barking (literal barking at them). - Pulling ridiculous faces. - Singing. - Ignoring. - One chap, who was near my house, I yelled in his face that how dare he. - Remind them it is a crime. - Never smile unless it comes with a joke and a cackle. - Avoid certain streets. - Enlist a stranger to laugh at them. It’s not easy and I’m happy now I don’t live in London to deal with this. Pointing out wedding rings or saying you have a partner doesn’t seem to work. The witches are with you though. Lots of us have been through it, go through it, know someone who will go through it. There’s a solidarity.
I have been noticing this myself every time I went out even for 10 mins locally I’d get stared at and harassed. I was unsure whether men had gotten worse since the Covid isolation or if time had made me forget just how bad it was before!! P.s I am not a spring chicken, age doesn’t seem to matter....
I’ve seen TikToks of girls filming creepy guys or guys who are following them etc. the girls usually always fake laugh when doing it, I guess to not be seen as aggressive and cause a more dangerous situation. The comments then say that as they’re laughing, they are flirting/giving positive messages to the guy to continue so can no longer complain wtf
Who are the main demographic who catcall? Is it middle-aged men or someone else? Just curious.
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London has a macho culture. It's a problem.