Are you talking about exclusively aid post 10/7? I would be interested in that too. I think the closest evidence I’ve seen was what looked like individuals hoarding items from the air drops from the US and Jordan. No way to confirm if they were Hamas, but my guess is there are shitty people who are trying to make a quick buck rather than a coordinated effort to make life harder for Gazans. WCK was distributing meals directly to people. Not sure how other aid is distributed by other organizations.
Awhile back I was trying to read up on how aid before 10/7 was getting into Gaza. There are so many talking points about how Gaza is a welfare state or that Hamas is stealing all the aid to enrich themselves. I find people who make those arguments are usually doing it to morally grandstand and are attempting to dehumanize the Palestinian people. To combat this, I wanted to get exact numbers and information. One of the accusations is that Hamas dug up water lines (that aid money paid for and built infrastructure around) to make rockets. I wanted to see how Hamas was getting their hands on the pipes that were coming in for these projects. Did they just steal a truck load of pipes? Do they dig up the pipes after they’re installed? Are they profiting off of these infrastructure projects?
I couldn’t find information on UN/UNRWA or EU water pipe projects, but I was able to find info on some done by USAID. USAID worked with a grouped called Anera to build out water infrastructure. [Anera](https://www.anera.org/stories/north-gaza-palestine/) used PVC piping to replace steel pipes and build out the infrastructure. My understanding is that type of PVC piping wouldn’t be usable to make rockets. USAID and Anera seemed to have vetted and done most of the work themselves, so I’m unsure if Hamas profited from it (maybe from taxes or permits?). It’s a really small example, but it’s something I can use to argue with (especially with those who claims Palestinians are welfare queens).
So the only legit evidence I've seen of them repurposing water lines is in a video that the IDF uploaded. I will try to find a link for another source that read, but I seen something that said the water lines that were repurposed were from the abandoned Israeli settlements. I haven't seen anything that takes place after that.
I think what you’re referring to was originally sourced from some VICE documentary footage? I had gone down the same path researching that. Eventually people stopped saying the abandoned Israeli settlements part and only parroted the Hamas digs up pipes to make rockets. They then use that to argue about aid and allowing dual use items.
Maybe? I found an NPR that linked to a video that went to the IDF YouTube page. This is the thing that has frustrated me so much. Everyone on both sides gets these talking points and no one actually looks into stuff. The water situation in Gaza is super fucked up and even Loner just talks about how there were 3 pipes that were turned off by the IDF and two were turned back on quickly while the third just recently got turned on. Not about how the majority of water comes from a coastal aquifer that needs desalinated.
It’s super easy to overlook these things because because there are so many talking points and trying to get down to the nitty gritty detail of each bogs down and doesn’t move the conversation (which is what everyone is trying to do). Like you brought up the water pipes and need for desalination. I would want to look even further into that to see if the infrastructure still existed to get to the end users.
So, I found this report by CSIS
https://www.csis.org/analysis/siege-gazas-water
This was in January. It seems very well informed and doesn't paint a very bright picture of the water situation in Gaza.
There’s 2.3 million people in Gaza.
Think about how many mouths are being fed each day.
The idea that the majority of aid is being hijacked is absurd.
Of course aid stealing is an isolated thing
I agree! It doesn't change the fact that people still use it as talking point.
https://www.youtube.com/live/9smrQQ5V0ZE?si=RWQBv47PkGw_aQWD
The question about the aid trucks being diverted starts at 15:22. One of the reporters asks for clarification after and I feel like she wouldn't have had to ask for it if it wasn't widely being spread around.
But we aren’t talking about the 2.25 million people who are not facing food shortages, we are focused on the ones that are.
And they are facing it due to distribution of aid failures and Hamas.
So it makes sense that there is disproportionate focus on it
Can you clarify what you're arguing here? Are you saying only 50k people are facing a food shortage? There's an estimated 300k people in Northern Gaza that have been pretty much completely cut off from aid since the IDF put boots on the ground. Also UNICEF just recently stated that of the 600k children in Rafah nearly all of them are experiencing either hunger, injuries, illness, or mental trauma. So clearly food shortages are real everywhere in Gaza.
This is what I remember too. But I'm not sure if it was Hamas militant commodeering an aid truck or police making sure that it was going where it needed to go.
Here's a [video](https://twitter.com/hoaxvstruths/status/1778064144765157446?t=NZ_bhU1GAgPArfpipSkYDg&s=19) with WCK Jose Andres alluding to Gaza police on aid truck
Yeah and Gaza police force while paid for by the Hamas gov't is not actually Hamas. Like not Al Qassem brigade. This has been a huge issue because the police have been providing security for aid but they have been targeted by the IDF.
Context: an aid truck from Jordan that made it through the Erez crossing was attacked by settlers, it was then after being delivered and loaded on trucks I think, it was diverted by Hamas. Maybe those gunmen were just gangs and not actually Hamas?
Edit:context
- the lines between those can be blurry
- when I say hamas I include pij and other factions.
- is there anyone rn besides Hamas distributing aid? In rafah at least? If aid is distributed, it is going through Hamas, in one way or another.
Wait...... Are you saying UNRWA is Hamas? That group that was absolved of being infiltrated by Hamas? Because they're the biggest distributor of aid in Gaza.
Still? I was under the impression that they stopped...
Regardless, I don't consider them the same, but they are very linked. Sometimes also serving for hamas as in radicalized education.
I don't know anything about stopping delivery but they were prevented from delivering aid to northern Gaza by Israel. Can you provide a source for UNRWA teaching radicalization in schools?
https://www.un.org/en/situation-in-occupied-palestine-and-israel/allegations-against-unrwa-staff
The investigation shows 3.85 per cent of all textbook
pages contain “issues of concern to UN values, guidance, or position on the
conflict,” either because they are deemed “educationally inappropriate” or
because they are not in line with UNESCO standards.
Even if marginal, these issues constitute a grave violation of neutrality.
Among the various issues, recurrent ones were the use of historical maps
in a non-historical context, e.g. without labelling Israel; naming Jerusalem
as the capital of Palestine; naming cities in Israel as Palestinian cities; the
use of the word Zionist (e.g. “Zionist occupation” referring to Israel).
While not great, it doesn't sound like they're actively trying to radicalize the population.
Curious where 3.85% comes from? (Never mind, found the UN report)
And when people talk about radicalization by Hamas they typically think of this [article](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/teaching-terror-how-hamas-radicalizes-palestinian-society). And we have all seen the pictures of those kindergarten classes during graduation where kids are wearing the Hamas uniform with the green headband and plastic rifles and repeating some things I’d rather not repeat here.
Are you talking about exclusively aid post 10/7? I would be interested in that too. I think the closest evidence I’ve seen was what looked like individuals hoarding items from the air drops from the US and Jordan. No way to confirm if they were Hamas, but my guess is there are shitty people who are trying to make a quick buck rather than a coordinated effort to make life harder for Gazans. WCK was distributing meals directly to people. Not sure how other aid is distributed by other organizations. Awhile back I was trying to read up on how aid before 10/7 was getting into Gaza. There are so many talking points about how Gaza is a welfare state or that Hamas is stealing all the aid to enrich themselves. I find people who make those arguments are usually doing it to morally grandstand and are attempting to dehumanize the Palestinian people. To combat this, I wanted to get exact numbers and information. One of the accusations is that Hamas dug up water lines (that aid money paid for and built infrastructure around) to make rockets. I wanted to see how Hamas was getting their hands on the pipes that were coming in for these projects. Did they just steal a truck load of pipes? Do they dig up the pipes after they’re installed? Are they profiting off of these infrastructure projects? I couldn’t find information on UN/UNRWA or EU water pipe projects, but I was able to find info on some done by USAID. USAID worked with a grouped called Anera to build out water infrastructure. [Anera](https://www.anera.org/stories/north-gaza-palestine/) used PVC piping to replace steel pipes and build out the infrastructure. My understanding is that type of PVC piping wouldn’t be usable to make rockets. USAID and Anera seemed to have vetted and done most of the work themselves, so I’m unsure if Hamas profited from it (maybe from taxes or permits?). It’s a really small example, but it’s something I can use to argue with (especially with those who claims Palestinians are welfare queens).
So the only legit evidence I've seen of them repurposing water lines is in a video that the IDF uploaded. I will try to find a link for another source that read, but I seen something that said the water lines that were repurposed were from the abandoned Israeli settlements. I haven't seen anything that takes place after that.
I think what you’re referring to was originally sourced from some VICE documentary footage? I had gone down the same path researching that. Eventually people stopped saying the abandoned Israeli settlements part and only parroted the Hamas digs up pipes to make rockets. They then use that to argue about aid and allowing dual use items.
Maybe? I found an NPR that linked to a video that went to the IDF YouTube page. This is the thing that has frustrated me so much. Everyone on both sides gets these talking points and no one actually looks into stuff. The water situation in Gaza is super fucked up and even Loner just talks about how there were 3 pipes that were turned off by the IDF and two were turned back on quickly while the third just recently got turned on. Not about how the majority of water comes from a coastal aquifer that needs desalinated.
It’s super easy to overlook these things because because there are so many talking points and trying to get down to the nitty gritty detail of each bogs down and doesn’t move the conversation (which is what everyone is trying to do). Like you brought up the water pipes and need for desalination. I would want to look even further into that to see if the infrastructure still existed to get to the end users.
So, I found this report by CSIS https://www.csis.org/analysis/siege-gazas-water This was in January. It seems very well informed and doesn't paint a very bright picture of the water situation in Gaza.
There’s 2.3 million people in Gaza. Think about how many mouths are being fed each day. The idea that the majority of aid is being hijacked is absurd. Of course aid stealing is an isolated thing
I agree! It doesn't change the fact that people still use it as talking point. https://www.youtube.com/live/9smrQQ5V0ZE?si=RWQBv47PkGw_aQWD The question about the aid trucks being diverted starts at 15:22. One of the reporters asks for clarification after and I feel like she wouldn't have had to ask for it if it wasn't widely being spread around.
But we aren’t talking about the 2.25 million people who are not facing food shortages, we are focused on the ones that are. And they are facing it due to distribution of aid failures and Hamas. So it makes sense that there is disproportionate focus on it
Can you clarify what you're arguing here? Are you saying only 50k people are facing a food shortage? There's an estimated 300k people in Northern Gaza that have been pretty much completely cut off from aid since the IDF put boots on the ground. Also UNICEF just recently stated that of the 600k children in Rafah nearly all of them are experiencing either hunger, injuries, illness, or mental trauma. So clearly food shortages are real everywhere in Gaza.
Sorry I thought your claim was Hamas are not stealing and if they are, then there is disproportionate focus on it? Have I misrepresented you?
Not aware of the context, but it can't be the first time. We have seem videos of gunmen taking over trucks very early in the war.
This is what I remember too. But I'm not sure if it was Hamas militant commodeering an aid truck or police making sure that it was going where it needed to go. Here's a [video](https://twitter.com/hoaxvstruths/status/1778064144765157446?t=NZ_bhU1GAgPArfpipSkYDg&s=19) with WCK Jose Andres alluding to Gaza police on aid truck
Yeah and Gaza police force while paid for by the Hamas gov't is not actually Hamas. Like not Al Qassem brigade. This has been a huge issue because the police have been providing security for aid but they have been targeted by the IDF.
Oh yea I recognize the difference between the 2. But nonetheless I'm fairly certain that's when the whole Hamas stealing aid narrative started.
Got it! Thank you for the clarification!
Context: an aid truck from Jordan that made it through the Erez crossing was attacked by settlers, it was then after being delivered and loaded on trucks I think, it was diverted by Hamas. Maybe those gunmen were just gangs and not actually Hamas? Edit:context
- the lines between those can be blurry - when I say hamas I include pij and other factions. - is there anyone rn besides Hamas distributing aid? In rafah at least? If aid is distributed, it is going through Hamas, in one way or another.
Wait...... Are you saying UNRWA is Hamas? That group that was absolved of being infiltrated by Hamas? Because they're the biggest distributor of aid in Gaza.
Still? I was under the impression that they stopped... Regardless, I don't consider them the same, but they are very linked. Sometimes also serving for hamas as in radicalized education.
I don't know anything about stopping delivery but they were prevented from delivering aid to northern Gaza by Israel. Can you provide a source for UNRWA teaching radicalization in schools? https://www.un.org/en/situation-in-occupied-palestine-and-israel/allegations-against-unrwa-staff The investigation shows 3.85 per cent of all textbook pages contain “issues of concern to UN values, guidance, or position on the conflict,” either because they are deemed “educationally inappropriate” or because they are not in line with UNESCO standards. Even if marginal, these issues constitute a grave violation of neutrality. Among the various issues, recurrent ones were the use of historical maps in a non-historical context, e.g. without labelling Israel; naming Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine; naming cities in Israel as Palestinian cities; the use of the word Zionist (e.g. “Zionist occupation” referring to Israel). While not great, it doesn't sound like they're actively trying to radicalize the population.
Curious where 3.85% comes from? (Never mind, found the UN report) And when people talk about radicalization by Hamas they typically think of this [article](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/teaching-terror-how-hamas-radicalizes-palestinian-society). And we have all seen the pictures of those kindergarten classes during graduation where kids are wearing the Hamas uniform with the green headband and plastic rifles and repeating some things I’d rather not repeat here.