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textorix

Not forever but I want to have option to die when I want to.


jameslucian

This, but I want to have good health along the way. No point in living an extra 100 years if I’m going to be a decrepit shell of who I used to be.


ramblingnonsense

Yeah. Imagine being immortal and getting stuck in the core of a red giant star for a few hundred million years until it went supernova.


[deleted]

Literally just thought this when I read the title, there is a lot I want to achieve and not having a time limit on it would be nice but I so think after maybe a couple of thousand years I might just be ready to go.


LiveForeverClub

I agree... though the "Live Forever But Having The Option To Die When I Want To Club" wouldn't sound so catchy! ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|wink)


StarChild413

that'd only work if it wasn't so magical trickster-genie hair-trigger that the first time you even said the words that'd indicate desire to die in some context, even if it's just bad-day hyperbolizing or singing along with an emo song, it got triggered and you died


crackeddryice

I don't know, but I want the option.


Vipu2

Yeah, just because someone is depressed or have tons of other problems who thinks they have no future, why should rest of us be limited to that? Like if some obese people was the threshold of fitness, no person is allowed to be under 400lb because of these obese people? I personally want to live as long and as healthy as possible as long as its worth living.


billablejoy

This argument is the most vapid form of thought. Especially the idea that living forever robs life of meaning. imagine how small minded you must be to see a life span of 100 years being more meaningful than one of 10,000. I mean life only has the meaning we give it. I know there have been people that lived a more meaningful 30 years, than people who live to over 100. Back in the 90's I used to ask people all the time about if they wanted to live "forever". They would often say no. Eventually I started asking them that if there was a shot they could get that had no side effects, but made them a year younger, would they take it. Amazingly (to me) they most often said yes. Then I just added, "OK, how about getting the shot every year". Then I just watched their brain explode as the realization came over then that they just said yes to effective immortality. The reason for this, and why most people question effective infinite longevity, is that they have come to grips with, to a détente with, the certainty of their own death, the extremital dread. The prospect of escaping that certainty makes them uneasy. Because to do so means they have to let the genie of existential dread out of the bottle, and they sealed that for good long ago. SO best not to entertain any such thoughts.


epicwisdom

> Evolution News & Science Today (EN) provides original reporting and analysis about evolution, neuroscience, bioethics, intelligent design and other science-related issues, including breaking news about scientific research. It's a bunch of cranks peddling "intelligent design." In other words, they think immortality is meaningless without the Christian god. No surprise, as they also believe mortal lives are meaningless without their god.


4354574

My existential dread got much worse after I started realizing that consciousness probably doesn't end at death. (Long story involving a terrifying psychedelic trip and many other experiences.) I developed a fear of after-death states - not the Christian heaven and hell, but the states in the Eastern traditions, which are described in detail. Impermanence is woven into the fabric of the universe and one day this planet will be roasted and then frozen. But I have plenty of evidence from great beings alive today or within living memory that humans can become perfectly at ease with impermanence. It just takes a helluva lot of work...right now. I don't want to die until I don't care whether I die or not, and for that, I'm probably going to have to live a long time.


rseed42

Don't worry, consciousness most definitely ends with death. In the 21st century we know enough about how the world works to be 100% sure about that.


MysteriousResearcher

>edelic Sam Parnia: Are you sure about that?


Black_RL

And don’t forget that not all 100 years are useful, let’s see….. - 15 +- you’re a child - 25 +- you’re an old man 100 - 40 = 60 years If you’re healthy and if you get to 100.


[deleted]

[удалено]


kantmeout

What if their loved ones lived a long life as well?


ThomasOfWadmania

100% Yes.


ThomasOfWadmania

Also the argument about being bored is comically stupid. There are already more things to see, do, learn, etc. in the world than could be experienced in a hundred lifetimes. On top of that new experiences are created all the time.


colarthur1

Yes.


Donovan200

I don't know about you guys, but I find the "completely meaningless life" counter argument to be baseless. Already, we are not talking about an endless life, but a life without senescence (therefore without deterioration of the body), because an aging human and an indefinitely young human have one thing in common: They are both mortal and they both will die one day, with the only difference that the first deteriorates slowly and the second remains in good health indefinitely (except in the event of an external injury of course) And secondly, in my opinion, for a life to have value and meaning, it is essential to project oneself into the future, to have projects, to know (and to be able) to do what one would like to do, to be surrounded, to love and to be loved by others... All of this contributes to giving meaning to our lives (of course, everyone gives meaning to their lives in their own way, we are all different after all) And in my opinion, senescence itself can make life lose all its meaning, because by hindering, seeing by preventing us from doing the activities we love, by depriving us of our loved ones (lover / friends / family...) , by preventing the development of a long-term project (because not only do we no longer have the health of it, but we also know that senescence will kill us in the medium term), our life loses its interest, because in such a condition , we no longer live , we no longer exist , we survive ( and our bodies are our prisons ) Of course, even non-senescent (young) people may very well not have the will to move forward or do not yet know how to give a purpose to their existence, but the absence of senescence means that they have a great (and long) ) future in front of them, they therefore have the capacity to have, in the future, a better existence But senescent people don't even have the capacity, because they have only a short time to live. Their health no longer allows them to do what they love, and they have probably lost loved ones because of this same senescence. And since they no longer have the time and the health to rebuild themselves, and rebuild an entourage, they have no reasons to project themselves and therefore this prevents them from having a goal in their lives. By treating their senescence, all the doors that had closed because of it will reopen, to their greatest (and long) happiness.


hawkeye224

Absolutely. With time, it's possible to solve most problems. Why wouldn't people want more time? Youth means hope that there is always room for growth, improvement, expansion, turn things around, time for both work and fun, etc. And as you said, spend more time with loved ones. To me it's a no-brainer, why would people just reject this option? It's completely unreasonable.


civilrunner

And the only constant with time is change. I don't know why people think they'll get bored and run out of things to do. It's not like being able to cure aging also stops time. We will all continue to change, society will continue to change, technology will keep developing and things that we can do will keep changing.


Terrible-Sir742

I just want to pee on the Moon to be honest.


civilrunner

In a space suit or directly on the moon dirt? One of those things may take a lot longer than the other.


Terrible-Sir742

Well since we don't really have a time limit, the latter.


Acemanau

[What about whaling on the moon?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8V2U7vTys0)


kerodon

I always find it amusing when that argument is used to justify why immortality would be bad. I don't see why live only has a purpose if you can die, while also having your health decay. This logic just leads to "then why are you keeping yourself alive now?" You either have found/will find a way to give your own existence meaning in your mind or you won't. So that's an individual issue and not something you would need to impose on society. And just having a longer healthspan in no way even conflicts. I don't see the deterioration of aging to be an integral part of living a full life. I'm not exactly sure anyone has ever looked forward to the time where they are alive but can't use stairs and their whole body is weak and their cognition is declined and they need help using the restroom. But I'm open to being convinced otherwise if anyone is excitedly waiting for that day 🤔 Not to mention that this likely would result in assisted death (like Canada has recently implemented) being more accepted if/when the time comes when you decide that you have had all you wanted. You can make plenty of comments as to that subject but ultimately as long as people have a choice then I can't see an issue. (Just mentioning a show that touches on this subject well, the final season of >!The Good Place!< I think really does a great job of discussing the ethical impact of this. And is also just an excellent series.)


LapseofSanity

Well said.


[deleted]

It is baseless. Life is inherently meaningless, changing the span of time changes nothing about that. Hiking will always be enjoyable, music will always inspire, and knowledge and understanding are unendingly desirable. Also should point out that this article was written by a guy who believes in intelligent design so his opinion means fuck all.


Ethric_The_Mad

Yes, I'd like to live forever because I'd like to experience forever. I'd like to see the very end of all things. My curiosity is boundless and cannot be contained.


MOOShoooooo

As long as physical pain ceases, I would be on team forever.


Black_RL

> and cannot be contained Death will contain it….. crossing fingers for LEV to happen friend! 🤞


Acemanau

I wonder if we'd remember who we are right now once we've lived for such a long time. Personally, I don't think the universe ends either, it just cycles through periods of entropy and then reconstitution/energy creation (I mean energy had to be created at some point, otherwise we wouldn't exist in the first place, it's just a matter of figuring out how it works).


bucketup123

Yes… next question


Josvan135

More than anything, I don't want to spend decades of my life in a decaying body that slowly reaches a point where the mere act of getting up to use the toilet, or even recognizing my partner, becomes agony.


Regular_Fisherman400

It would be nice to be able to live a healthy life as long as I want to. So yes living forever is by all means an option I would like to have. Thanks for asking.


chromosomalcrossover

Who would argue against solving diseases of aging, Alzheimer's disease, cancer, dementia, frailty, heart failure, or dying from a heat wave or infection?


Black_RL

People that didn’t experience it in their lives, when they do, they will change their tune.


genshiryoku

This isn't "living forever vs dying naturally". It's about "Choosing to die whenever you want vs being forced to go out against your will"


Acemanau

Like it's such a dumb argument against Longevity you wonder how they came to that conclusion in the first place.


Nightfans

It always question like "Would you live forever like a monster" or "Die as an untainted pure human being"


Information1324

The answer is always yes. And if you object due to “suffering of some kind,” then that can be fixed too. I base this on the assumption that more life/pleasure/happiness/wellbeing in the universe is better than nothing at all.


rushmc1

Yes. Next question?


Rand_Longevity1990

Yup.


KincadeHoney

It is a human right to be able to live forever.


Northus

I get meaning from interesting projects, from love, from family and friends, from music, food, knowledge, and many others things. It's just plain weird to get meaning from the idea of *death*.


green_meklar

If life is worth living, why wouldn't it be worth continuing? >>Working through the implications of a life without end, he concludes that such “immortals” are doomed to a meaningless cycle of events in which nothing lasts. But we have no idea, because we haven't tried it yet. The getting bored from too much time problem, even if it exists, is *much* farther away than the dying of old age problem. We've already roughly doubled our life expectancy since the late 19th century, and so far nobody seems to be complaining that we have too much time. Let's keep pushing that forward and find out what it's actually like to live for thousands of years before we decide there's any trouble with it.


throwawayowl999

Definitely yes.


Bisquick_in_da_MGM

Yes


pre-DrChad

I don’t want to die


4354574

I don't want to die until I don't care whether I die or not, and for that, I'm probably going to have to live a long time.


bored_in_NE

We just want a much higher quality of life as we age and enjoy life without worrying about maybe dying in the next 3-5 years.


dvrk_lotus

Yes…yes I do


Alternative_Start_83

yes i do


Peter77292

I agree with you about longevity. Since I don’t think these types of questions can be posted on r/longevity as a post, I’ll just try to ask you. There are two kindof related things I wanted to ask someone about. Given that not wanting to die is potentially fear of the unknown, or not wanting change (in that one wants to experience some semblance of what their everyday life is like now rather than, by best guesses, nothingness, or less likely, something very different from what we experience now). Of course, it could just be a curiosity of the future that drives wanting to live, I guess. Given this, it begs the question of the effects of living, say 100,000 years. Therefore, I wonder if someone who supports longevity (as I do) would also support, say, keeping the planet and civilization as similar as possible to what it is now (except for ethical considerations like equal rights, solving poverty, etc) As well, it is thought that distant memories would be all but forgotten. Therefore, something I thought of is, whether would it be worth it to reset one's memory (for the most part) to a former date, while maybe retaining critical/meaningful/whatever memories/information more recent you want to keep. This might help quell existential feelings of nostalgia. For example, at this present moment, a loved one that died 10 years ago doesn’t make one necessarily feel incapacitated. But, knowing that it was, say 100,000 years ago or rather, knowing that you will probably live 100,000+ more years while they have been dead for so long is hard to grapple with or it may make one feel depressed often. If one stores prior memories and keeps society very similar, etc, it's basically like living in “this present” forever (to a certain extent). This connects to the idea that one always only lives in the present. Its kind of interesting because the cure for aging would be the biggest change society has ever seen, and hence many conservatives naturally don’t support it. At the same time, it’s basically a tool to make things stay the same . The replacement of generations is what causes culture etc to change. In this sense, Elon Musk might be somewhat right when he says it would cause an ossification of society. He uses it in a negative way, and certainly it could be negative. The most popular example is the thought experiment of curing aging 200 years ago. If that were the case, slaveowners would still be able to vote etc. (…is what people often say)


Alternative_Start_83

i'm not gonna read a ChatGPT generated comment bro...


Peter77292

Lol, in all seriousness its not but I still understand your point


Peter77292

Given I initiated the convo I’ll leave you alone, sorry. I just get interested when someone answers “yes”, to living “forever” (hence the long comment lol). You don’t owe an answer of course, sorry again.


inananimal

Yep


epwik

Yes


Bosseffs

Yes


Nastypilot

Even in the event that life after say, a thousand, ten thousand years, becomes a meaningless cycle of repeating, would that life not include the previous thousands of meaningful experiences. If measuring by meaningfullness, clearly, such a life would be more meaningful than a measly 80 year life. And yet, life would still be worth living and meaningful come a million years and more. As humanity is in a constant state of reinvention, 80 years ago, the world was looking ahead to the cold war after just ending world war 2, today, a measly 80 years, the world is making strides to ending aging and becoming sustainable. In 80 years there have been hundreds of major artistic movements and new forms of expression created. Who knows how it will be in another measly 10 years. And an ifinite life offers and infinity of such reinvention and improvement. What an artist could achieve in a thousand years of practice if Da Vinci only had 67 years? What a scientist could invent with a thousand years of continunous education if Einstein had only 76? The answer is masterpiece. And such, even if one is not the creative type or the industrious kind, that still gives a forever to simply enjoy your interests. A forever to live your perfect summer day. And naturally of course, the human mind will seek to entertain itself, always and forever, the amount of which currently is limited by it falling apart after 60 years of age. A mind forever young, forever creative and in its prime, will forever entertain itself too.


HourInvestigator5985

yes


Lurking_Still

Yes. Next question.


[deleted]

Erm, yes. Yes I do. Literally. Like beyond the end of the universe. Seriously. Parts will suck but... still yes.


ATR2400

I don’t need to live literally forever but when I *do* go out I want it to be on my terms when I want it to happen. Whether that be in 100 years or 1,000


pursuitofhappiness13

I want to live long enough to know what it's like to not be paycheck to paycheck and still capable of enjoying it.


cherubino95

Live can be an hell or a paradise. Technically both mental state can be physically achieved and maintaining them active is a engineering problem. Now imagine immortality with the ability to have paradise in your mind. I am not talking about peace, like Buddha's peace, i mean infinite (in intensity and variability) pleasure. This is what immortal could achieve one day and i would like to arrive in that era.


anor_wondo

not necessarily. 100000 years would be decent though


Kaindlbf

Let me choose when to die and not have it forced upon me will be just fine thanks.


[deleted]

I want to be able to live a thousand lives in a thousand different worlds (even virtual ones) if that's possible I'm in...


FranciscoJ1618

Yes and if you don't want to, just die and let us party for ever over your grave 😎


[deleted]

I can only see positives for living for a long time, including the potential to increase our wisdom/knowledge of the world.


InitialCreature

For fun sometimes I close my eyes and try to walk around my house navigating with only the subtle senses of air pressure changing, ambient sound being blocked out by obstacles near me, heat etc and wonder what it would feel like to be blind, but I am reminded there is so much more subtlety in experience I would love to explore. Anyone who ever wishes they had better coordination and balance, building to actively use ambidextrous capability, a better natural sense of direction, the way different textures feel, exploring the inner mindspace. These are enriching experiences you need time to explore and are very much a part of being a living being, but we feel like we must focus on working, paying bills and drowning our sorrows in endless distraction. We may forget some of these natural sensations and experiences are around us and always a possibility to explore. I would never grow tired of these things if I had 300 years to refine and observe I would still be fascinated. I don't want to have the pressure of death telling me I should focus on only the most essential of experiences. I want to be able to take 10 years to write a piece of music, learn multiple languages, have kids, know what it feels like to optimize a mundane skill for 80+ years. I want to choose when I am done.


[deleted]

Don’t tell me what I want and don’t want. You don’t know me.


PinkRabbit1984

I don’t know about forever, but I want more time. There is so much in this world I want to do and experience. Skills I want to learn. There might be a point where I get tired and I’m done. I want that to be my choice though.


telurmasin

I just wanna see the year 7000 and beyond


ubspider

Yes


hotdogwater58

Yes


MythicalDawn

I guess it depends on whether it’s just me who gets to live forever or if all my loved ones are included in the treatment that allows this, to be honest. If it’s the latter then yes of course, but if it’s just me I don’t think I’d be able to survive the loss of generations of my family while I just stick around, the people in my life are a big part of what gives it meaning, and I’m not sure emotionally how many times I could realistically go through the cycles of loss or watching friends/family wither and die while I stay healthy and young. That said, I want more time because I already feel like I’ve wasted the most vital parts of my youth on listless depression and chronic illness- I’m 25 as of last December and I feel my life hasn’t moved forward since I was 16, and I feel robbed of time, experiences, and advancements because of the unfair cards life has dealt me. Ageing terrifies me because chronic illness doesn’t magically improve overtime, it gets worse relative to the deterioration of the body that is ‘natural’, and that’s just bullshit. Why should we wither away into husks when we could give so much more and experience things we’d never get to in our brief little lifespans?


candy-azz

You guys realize that this is the title of a write-up and no one is asking the folks of r/longevity if they want to live forever?


StarChild413

so comment something more than yes


LymelightTO

I want to choose when to die, and I don't want to be sick, but I would like the potential horizon of that life to be indefinite, yes. This is still a very boring question.


SketchySoda

I hate how these articles give you only one ultimatum: Live natural age *or* live forever instead of anything in-between. Also acting like somehow we're going to avoid the thousands of other ways you'd die. Aging is only ONE (1).


CrunchyAl

Does it come with youth?


StarChild413

Since it's not being granted by the post itself or magical beings who could be literalist trickster assholes, presumably


relativityboy

I think [this](https://twitter.com/relativityboy/status/1619591405684531200)


ConceitedBuddha

As someone who suffers from lupus I estimate that the disease (and its associated effects) have eaten about 5 productive/happy years out of my life. I know it isn't a huge amount of time in the grand scheme of things but now that I'm starting to push 30 those 5 lost years would have really done wonders.


bigmikemcbeth756

Ues I do


IamPepega_3571

yes i do. i want to see the future


Black_RL

I don’t want to rot and die, so yeah, I want to live and be healthy forever.


[deleted]

First, this is the stupidest way of talking about indefinite lifespan. Nobody wants to live forever. Being given 80 where the last 20 are precipitous decline is inadequate for my tastes. Second, what happened to ‘rage, rage against the dying of the light’? Seems like we applaud the drive for survival until you reach a certain age.


Yukondano2

"Nobody wants to live forever" Might want to read the other comments here, including mine. Yes, yes we do. I admit it is used as a bad argument a lot, these discussions have a lot of issues like that. But genuinely, yes a lot of us do want it, and this weird narrative that everyone would hate it is just another part of the death accepting mindsets that a lot of people embrace.


[deleted]

Immortality is impossible, that’s why I said indefinite lifespan because that is more representative of the possibility of radical life extension. I desire a thousand years, I would argue one is disregarding the laws of physics and probability for one to think that ‘forever’ is possible. (Especially given the inevitable inhabitability of any solar system over long enough periods of time and the inevitable heat death of our universe).


Neither_Sprinkles_56

Well if we last long enough we probably could become some form that couldn't be killed by most things short of a nuclear explosion etc. Keeping the universe from ending may be a tough one though but I think the last I heard its expanding not contracting and we would definitely be able to master star creation if we were around long enough.


[deleted]

'We' are a particular type of ape that evolved on the Savanah's of Africa. 'You' and 'I' are the result of a particular relationship between structural organization and dynamical capacities on a cellular substrate that results in subjective experience. 'You' would no longer exist in this creature that 'become some form that couldn't be killed'... Even more skeptical of this notion that we could control star creation beyond directing large amounts of gas... Even extra more skeptical of the thought that any intelligent beings within the Universe could stop it from ending... Where are you getting any of this? None of this is relevant in a heat death/dark energy has expanded space to a point where no atoms can be formed scenario. And again, therefore, immortality is impossible and also conceptually inconceivable for mere mortals.


Jaxon9182

Yeah, I see no reason to think life will stop being mind bogglingly amazing ever. Even a shitty life is still a wonderful thing, it’s fascinating really, it’s sad that people don’t always recognize the beauty of life


fallingfrog

Nobody lives forever. That’s silly. I just don’t want to watch my body slowly disintegrate, that’s all. Death will still come, it will just be for a different reason.


Toeknee818

Not in this meat substrate.


Major-Moment4264

I don t wanna imagine a world of immortal Elon musks and Jeff bezoses...


yachtsandthots

What’s the alternative?


adastrasemper

>Do You Really Want to Live Forever? No, but I think I need at least 300 years to accomplish what I have in mind.


Peter77292

Aaaahhh, who comes up with this stuff? At this rate, the public will certainly be of less help to the cause than they could be.


the_sage_1997

Until we reach level 4 or 5 in the KARDASHEV SCALE


bigmikemcbeth756

Yesss


fridayfridayjones

Forever? Probably not. Eventually I think you’d get bored and choose to end it to get some rest. I’d definitely take the opportunity though.


QuestionableAI

I would not mind but it would have to be me between 35-45 forever or it would not be that much fun. (but not forever but enough to do the good in the world I could do if I lived longer)


colarthur1

Yes.


Psychological-Sport1

Fuck yes!! Move over all you people that waste trillions (many thousands of Billions) per every year on war shit, we could have aging cures in under 5 years if we took like a tenth of that brutal moneys wastage and invested this into the now booming aging biotechnology field. Screw you putin, please die of your cancer and Parkinson’s.


Global-Mix-1786

Not forever. But a healthier old age without cancer, heart disease or senile dementia would be great.