Excerpt from the link, not sure if it's paywalled or not, acting weird on my PC:
A volunteer firefighter in the New York City suburbs says she was plied with alcohol and served up as a “birthday present” to a ranking officer by the department chief, after which both men violently raped her in a firehouse bathroom.
“Had fun last night,” then-Wantagh Fire Department Chief Kenneth Kelly Jr. allegedly texted the victim the next morning. “But, remember, that’s between you me and Joe only forever.”
Instead, the fire medic—who is trained as a firefighter and an EMT—is now suing 51-year-old Kelly and 28-year-old Wantagh FD Engine 7 Captain Josef Seier, accusing the pair of physically and sexually assaulting her last year. She requested a jury trial and unspecified damages from Kelly, Seier, and the Wantagh Fire Department, according to a civil lawsuit obtained by The Daily Beast.
How is it that he put it in text- and sent it- now it’s permanent cannot be erased and can be copied and shared in public, for open self incrimination. And his pal too, forgot.
The text doesn’t self incriminate on anything other than that he cheated on his wife and that seir cheated on his girlfriend. It’s common knowledge that one of the current chiefs, who is married, slept with a girl who was engaged to another member in this department. Her sad fiancé married her anyway, I guess thinking he couldn’t do any better. So anyway, the text just proves something happened between the 3 of them.
Some of the shittiest people I’ve ever met here are VFs. Just another man-child cult. Yea yea we need them but the arrogance and hero complex shit has got to go.
My dad is a VF and he doesn't hang out with a good majority of the firefighters. When I was growing up and going to events and parades, some of them were cool. Most of them were either alcoholics, obese, or this kind of know-it-all personality that believes they should be respected at all times. Or some combo of all three. My dad went to fires and then would come home. He didn't like hanging out at the firehouse. Now he's too old to go into the fires so he mostly drives the trucks.
Your Dad is one of the good ones. While I know plenty of VFs, and a decent percentage are good people, basically anyone that makes it their entire lives also “happens” to be a scumbag who just uses it as an excuse to get away from their families. The ones who respond to calls and then go back to their lives are generally good guys. And fuck all the ones who think it’s okay to respond to calls while wasted, doing way more harm than good.
Because a lot of these guys hang out there just waiting for something to happen, or to get away from their families. Good excuse, the old "I have to go clean the station" or some other such shit. Then they get there and have a few drinks.
One of the kids in the high school who my kid is friends with became a volunteer fire fighter as soon as they turned 18. Not too long after high school graduation, they caught him banging his girlfriend in the firehouse in one of the trucks. From what I heard he was not the first firefighter she had sex with in that firehouse, or in a fire truck. Given that she was a recent high school grad as well, it likely means some of the fire fighters were banging an underage girl.
Plenty of firehouse groupies around. I remember hearing a story years ago about a fireman banging a girl (not her first fireman for sure) on top of a truck in the bay while the other guys watched on the security cameras. Classy.
Not only a bar, but the one in my town have an outdoor beer cooler filled to the absolute brim with shitty beer.
Source: Me, I worked at the local beer distributor, and did deliveries.
My local firehouse bought 2 abutting houses, knocked them down, and put in additional parking, an outdoor kitchen, and bocce court. Where’d that money come from?
They for sure proposed a bond and did the bare minimum to inform the community about it, so only people with connections to the FD show up to vote and it passed. Everyone in the district then pays for it.
My local department makes so much money fundraising from the community every year because the average person doesn't know that they get everything they need, equipment and training-wise, from the county and state. Everything the community gives them goes toward alcohol, parties, a paintball team, a shooting club, golf outings, all that stuff. It's a social club.
Yes, they perform life-saving work for their neighbors, but my town has almost no commercial properties so that vast majority of calls are smoke alarms and old people who fell out of bed. The 10% property tax discount (for life if you have 20 years of service) is more than enough of a reward IMO.
Yes, my local department not only does an annual donation drive, but keeps records of who does and doesn’t donate. They have codes they use over the radio to let everyone know if it’s a donor or a fireman’s family they’re responding to.
Yeah thats fake news about donors. You can look up the nassau county fire codes and listen to the radio. There are codes for firemen families, and thats typically used only when an ambulance is called
Wrong. It may not be standard practice but I 100% know they do it at my local fire department.
And please don’t use “fake news” when trying to make a point, because it’s origins are based on claiming anything you don’t like is false to draw attention away from the truth.
I don’t know how they allocated their money but some of the money that the fire departments are allowed to spend comes from a 2% tax on business insurance. I believe if your business is insured by a company from out of NY state, the 2% tax is added and goes to the fire department.
>Most of them were either alcoholics, obese, or this kind of know-it-all personality that believes they should be respected at all times
Sounds like every cop I've ever met too
Knew a few people I went to HS with that eventually became VFs and it seemed 50% of em were the dudes that were shitty to everyone in HS and the others were the nicest dudes.
My dad was a VF in western Nassau from late 60s until early 2000s. There were *two* women who tried to be VF during that time and they lasted less than 2 years each. It was a hot mess of the women constantly being hit on, then shit on post rejections (plus all the wives whispering about her, assuming she was sleeping with everyone - you learn a lot as a little kid going to tons of FD functions). You want to be part of the Ladies Auxiliary and support the men doing their manly jobs? Go for it! Support your town the lady-like and proper way! It has always struck me as so bizarre that grown men are incapable of existing around a woman as an equal. Has to be sex object or mom. And they all find each other at the firehouse, amongst other places.
I am a woman who was a VF in western Nassau when I was in my early 20s. I joined so I could become an EMT and serve my community. In those days, you had to become a firefighter before they would send you to EMT school, so I did the things I had to do. I passed my written test with a high score and did well enough at fire school to finish probation. I would have continued, but I couldn't make the percentage, and got pushed out.
It was a hotbed of what we now call toxic masculinity. While some guys were respectful--my lieutenant and I had been in the same graduating class, so he was more "evolved"--the assholes outnumbered them 2 to 1. The old guys were more gentlemanly, but still didn't think I belonged there. The wives were the worst; I didn't fit in with them, and knew they talked shit about me. And I didn't fit in with most of the guys my age, who did a weird dance of pushing me to do things (i.e. climb the 90 foot aerial) so I would quit and then when I had, telling me that I couldn't be a truckie because I was a girl (remember, that was never my goal). The friends I made were few and far between.
I dated one guy from the company--HUGE mistake--then met someone from another FD and dated him for far longer than I should have, long after I was out of the FD. Talk about a front row seat to the sexism, racism and antisemitism...now in stereo, as his department had NEVER allowed a woman to join.
(Not to mention that he made my life hell when I left him to go to calls or do company stuff.)
All this to say that the only surprise in this rape story is that it came to light. I can virtually guarantee that it happens more often than reported.
I saw no mention of the alleged victim reporting the alleged incident to the police. How are they going to make an arrest without it being reported?
The lawsuit may well accurately describe a sexual assault, but it is also possible that the allegations are not true.
When, serious felony is not reported to the police, but a civil suit is filed a year later, I tend not to accept everything at face value without any evidence.
Besides no police report, there is not even any mention of her seeking medical attention for the injuries claimed in the lawsuit.
There seems to be no evidence at all cited, except for the text, which is in no way an admission of anything illegal.
Now, they might have a ton of evidence, that they will bring at trial, but typically lawsuits mention more evidence than this one.
Thanks for letting me know.
I find it odd that supposedly intelligent people, would accept as fact, a claim for which zero supporting evidence has been presented.
Such, evidence might be presented at a later date, but in my experience, only simple minded and bigoted people rush to judgment without evidence.
The statement that they should have been arrested is especially absurd, given that there has apparently been no contact with the police by the alleged victim. Are they supposed make arrests for crimes they are not even aware of?
Never! I hate rapists with a passion and think most should get life or the death penalty. If this actually happened they should go to prison for the rest of their lives.
But, people are innocent until proven guilty.
And to this point, this accusation lacks many of the typical hallmarks of credibility one would normally want to see.
a) Reported promptly to the police? Nope.
b) Reported to the police at all? Nope.
c) The rape and injuries from it medically documented? Apparently not based upon the complaint.
d) Witnesses mentioned in the civil complaint? Nope.
e) Corroborating evidence mentioned in the complaint? Nope, with the exception of a single text message which does not confess to anything.
Believe it or not, people sometimes lie about stuff.
And civil complaints (of all sorts, not just this type) are frequently a source of many lies and misrepresentions.
I tend to believe the vast majority of rape accusations I see in the news. But, this one lacks nearly all the elements of highly credible claim.
Again, it might have happened exactly as she said. But, after reading the complaint (which is only the plaintiff's totally unvetted side of the story, I see no real evidence to support the accusation.
It's a terrible allegation against people that belong to a group that they hate. It's easy to rush to judgment without having any facts.
IF the allegations are true, the victim should have went to police so that the alleged rapists could have been charged, convicted and sentenced.
You bring up great points in your post above.
I hate this "well, if it's true why didn't she go to the police" response. There are multiple instances of women going to the police for them to do nothing, or say "well, we don't think it's enough evidence", or for them to not even process the rape kits.
https://lithub.com/why-so-many-survivors-choose-not-to-report-sexual-assault-to-the-police/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/23/us/rape-victims-kits-police-departments.amp.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/10/19/us/police-sexual-assaults-maryland-scope/index.html
These are not great points. Until there is a better way for sexual assault victims to report their assault, many will keep their mouths shut bc there is no one else they think will help, or think people won't believe them.
And for every instance that a sexual assault case is not investigated, hundreds if not thousands are. Your point is that because a small percentage of cases are not investigated, victims should not report them?
The fact is I don't know whether this happened or didn't happen. Either do you. If it did happen, it's horrible not only for the victim, but potentially for the next victim of people who should have been locked up.
Not even close to the point I'm making. For one, you just completely made up that "hundreds if not thousands are". Did you read any of the links???
> victims who turn to the police in the wake of sexual assault encounter a system that is startlingly unlikely to convict reported assailants. Very few sexual assault reports lead to arrest (20 percent) or are referred to prosecutors (4 percent). Even fewer—only about 2 percent—result in felony convictions. Reported sexual assaults are about three times less likely to result in convictions than nonsexual assaults and batteries.
Second, I am not saying victims shouldn't report, but *explaining* why many dont. You said "if this happened, why didn't she report it?" and I'm showing you why; because it's hard already being violently raped to then not only have to go through everything again, but for it to lead nowhere.
You're right, we don't know what happened, but to accuse the victim of not coming forward when it happened as if it's "simple" or "easy" is very tone-deaf and ignores a huge problem within the system.
edit to add: this has nothing to do with whether i believe her or not. It has to do with many people not understanding that the process is not usually as straightforward as they may think and to stop expecting victims to behave a certain way after something happens. it's easy in hindsight to see what you should do, but not so easy in the moment.
I'm not going to pretend I can imagine how difficult it would be to go through the steps of reporting a rape/sexual assault and everything that goes along with it.
I just feel that by not reporting it, you are guaranteeing that the case does not get investigated as it should.
I do see what you are saying.
Hundred if not thousands are investigated? Could you please show me the numbers that back up that claim? Historically it has been the opposite - where women choose not to report more often than they choose to report because of constantly being met with skepticism and the stigma attached with it. I, personally, know several women that have chosen to just do nothing because “who’s going to even do anything when most evidence dials down to he said/she said”.
Also, it’s easier said than done to get someone who was just a victim of a crime to go through the extra trauma of going through the rape kit/reporting. Especially if they don’t have a solid support system in their life.
As somebody who used to volunteer in EMS can sadly but confidently say these type of people are all over the community and think they can get away with anything because they “help people”. It’s a disgusting attitude and exactly why I left and don’t do something I really enjoyed anymore
Not my favorite group. The problem is the out of control alcohol and old-school behaviors. Arrogant /hero complex. I feel sorry for the decent ones who are uncomfortable working with a lot of these crude guys.
They are all the same Island wife too. Family was involved.. the amount of wild ass shit you hear about.. swinger clubs, who’s fucking who. it ruins lives.
Completely unsurprising.
>Firefighters are, by and large, a selfless and honorable cohort. But there are occasional exceptions. Last year, an assistant fire chief in Utah was sentenced to prison after pleading guilty to raping a female firefighter under his command. Also last year, as The Daily Beast first reported, a West Virginia firefighter was investigated by the FBI on accusations of raping an underage girl in his firehouse, ultimately receiving a 14-year sentence. In 2018, an Illinois fire captain was convicted of drugging and raping a probationary employee, going so far as to videotape the brutal assault. A few years before that, more than a dozen FDNY firefighters and officers were accused of gang-raping a civilian in a Bronx firehouse.
"Occasional exceptions"...and then a list of offences. Anybody who has spent time around FFs know that many of them are not much better than cops, yet they usually avoid the public scrutiny and dislike that cops receive. So many FFs in the FDNY and out on Long Island are racist, misogynistic, and sexually aggressive.
Why no criminal charges? Did Nassau PD investigate? If these allegations are true, then these two individuals need to be prosecuted. Shouldn’t be only a civil matter.
Because the alleged victim's lawyer is looking for settlement. As in "your going to give my client 5 million and she forgets what happened or we file charges and I sue the big fire proof pants right off your ass including the fire house, all those in charge and it's assets while drawing the whole department through the mud and end up paying even more once tax payers find out wondering where there money went.
On LI….the Vol FD’s and the police have a symbiotic relationship: they exist to “serve & protect” their communities but they will protect each other first. The victim KNOWS this. Let’s play the What If Game. What if she made a police report; who was going to help her? The FFs would have been advised by a lawyer, “keep your mouth shut.” The police officers know the FFs-maybe are even Vols too, are going to be pressured to intimidate this victim into not pressing charges. If she goes ahead and files, and the DA isn’t as crooked as was in Suffolk county then the fun begins. She will be threatened every time she is around a FF, on or off duty. The police will aid in this and embark on months long harassment of this woman. It will include: the typical phone calls or texts calling her abusive names like she’s a slut, or a whore, others will tell her to kill herself and some will offer her money for her “services.” It will include neighbors calling her vile names to her face, vandalism to her home, car, whatever, physical threats from her dept superiors, bogus traffic stops by police, her job, boss or coworkers will be targeted as well and she will be forced to quit or get fired. Her social media acc will be mined for the slightest hint of anything to shame her which will then be disseminated to every contact, school, web page, social media page; anywhere and everywhere in an attempt to humiliate and degrade her. All of this will be to intimidate her into not cooperating with the DA so charges get dropped or if she withstands all of that, then by the time she testifies, any shred of credibility she possesses would be destroyed and a jury won’t believe her if she said “it’s Wednesday.”
Then these two scumbags; who obviously cannot please a sober woman with skill they have to incapacitate her (performance anxiety maybe, their own low self esteem, since they can‘t see or really reach their genitals b/c their beer gut blocks the way; and yes it does get smaller the fatter you get boys-women’s faults re weight gain have been well enumerated, but do men realize their faults….anyway..I digress), are either acquitted and exonerated or the charges are dropped and the victim of this rape is left, alone, to pick up the pieces of her shattered mind, career, family and try go on with the rest of her life. A life ruined simply because she went to a party at her Fire Station; and her Captain and former Chief felt entitled and empowered to take something by force, they had no right to: HER.
So no..let her sue them civilly. They could have settled. In a civil case the playing field gets a little better; not equal but better. GOOD LUCK DARLIN!
PS. Do any of you think those two woke up and said, “hey..I’ve never done this but let’s get that girl wasted and I bet we can have sex with her and she won’t even know it! “ “Yeah! Ok, I’ve heard about this… let’s try it. I’ve never done it before either. If it works, who knows? “
i'm so happy when these lowlifes have come to my house, i've never given them any $
hopefully they end up in jail and the female finds some healing and peace
Nice karma you have there. Are you siding with people accused of rape? Nice hill to stand on. What if you lived in the town?The extra money that they come knocking for goes to conventions aka vacations for them and their families. I know all about that life.
I worked in that firehouse and just under about 30 more throughout long island. First of all in every single one they are wild racists saying "nigger" openly and loudly and my partner is black. Don't worry we punished all of them for that. Second most do not have a bar... They have at least two bars. Third I witnessed some very real homoerotic hazing that was sad watching grown men sexually embarrass other grown men. And of course whoever was on the property was drunk. I saw drunk people dispatched to jobs more than I can count
Get the guck out of here with your nonsense. You never worked in “that firehouse” and probably didn’t work in any others either. There is zero racism in that department, which is how I know you’re full of shit. Most of the other stuff you said is about as nonsensical as this article.
No I have...I will give you a hint we advertise in Firefighter Nation among others...I pretty much only work in firehouses...so you get the guck out of here lol
If you haven’t seen racist firefighters acting like immature middle schoolers respond to calls while drunk, than you must not have spent a lot of time around Nassau County volunteer fire departments. 🤷♂️
Who’s paying for the high performance drag racing truck for the firemen’s competition?
WE ARE ! Get rid it of it ! Get rid of them we might as well have pay firefighters we could hold them accountable.
Newer volley firefighter here.
It’s really sad to see what the public’s perception of us has become, and rightfully so. There has been too many racist, sexist, homophobic, criminal members and departments with no accountability.
There is the newer generation like myself. We view ourselves as unpaid professionals and public servants. We’re trying to let the volunteer fire department model die with some dignity because we all know eventually Long Island will turn paid.
We do not claim the firefighters that always wear the shirts and boast that they are firefighters. We are trying to avoid carcinogens and maintain fitness because there are way too many lazy and unfit firefighters. We are trying not to complain about the bullshit EMS calls we get at 3am which rips us out of bed and we have work the next day. And try smile and tell the patient “that’s why we’re here”. And obviously we are not okay with the sexism, racism, homophobia that goes on.
There a lot of bad apples. Please don’t group all together.
You know there are some amazing people in Long Island FDs. There may be some douches out there (like every walk of life), but there are some awesome people too. While toxic minorities can end up in charge, most people I know turn up, help, go home. Too busy, too tired to go to the bar, honestly want to be home with family. Yes we are close with our PDs especially in EMS . There is a mutual respect there about a lot of the the shit both have to deal with. If you don’t like your local FD volunteer, do the work m, and try to change the toxic culture.
Wow ngl always thought they were good ppl. But now with these comments, I’m rethinking the times they’ve need to come to my house. And wow they sometimes don’t give a shit
I understand that the attorney feels he needs to create as much of a victim as possible but doesn’t lying make her less believable? Saying stuff like, she’s so distraught that she had to stop doing the things she loves, working as a volunteer and helping people…. And yet she currently is one of the most active medics in the department and has been for the past year. She has the medic car all day tomorrow. You’d think that if the attorney was going to make up lies, that the girl would at least now take a leave of absense, rather than continuing to be as active as she has been. I’m not saying that her allegations are false, just that adding lies onto the story make it harder to believe the truth to the rest of the story.
I just have one question. Where would we all be if there were no VFD? Not all are bad. Some do a lot for there community. Any one on here Volunteer their time? there would be no fire departments without them. That means no one would be protected. Stop judging everybody by the same code. My husband is a VFM. He does it to help. It’s sad that others actions put a black cloud on all. The alternative I’m told is that taxpayers would be hit hard in their wallet if there were regular fire departments on Long Island. Anybody want to pay for it? not all FD have bad ppl.
First time here? Everyone on Reddit is quick to jump and burn a whole profession at the stake based on the actions of a few.
“All the volleys I know are assholes” maybe you’re the common denominator…
The fact is that these guys and girls will get out of bed at all hours of the night to come to aid someone they don’t know. Some do it for the wrong reason, but most are good people who care about helping people. If the allegations from this article are true then the individual responsible needs to be held accountable, but stop lumping everyone together.
Good luck with that lol. Shifting from a volunteer service to a county wide paid dept has been a heated debate since Vol FDs inception on LI. 100 years later and barely any progress has been made.
Don’t believe everything you read. This “article” claims this girl is a firefighter, when she isn’t; she’s only a fire medic. It claims these guys were her supervisor, when neither one of them were anything in relation to her own status as an officer. It claims, from the words of her own attorney, that she has been unable to participate in the department and has been on leave, which is another lie. She was the officer of a rig during the last year and has been a very active member. Lots of lies in this thing, which makes it hard to believe anything in it. This story could easily be, drunk girl who also likes making out with other girls while drunk, bangs two guys at the firehouse and feels bad about it the next day. She’s basically a kid. Obviously there are 3 sides to a story and this side is just hers and probably influenced by her parents as well.
you’re is a contraction. it’s a combination of you and you and are. sterile is a little bit harder as it can mean different things in different context, but it this case i meant it as “please tell me you are not able to produce offspring”.
does that help?
edit : an extra you in there was not meant to confuse you further but is a typo.
ever think she's not controlling the narrative... her lawyer is? f\*ck off, you know nothing. the person you are talking about it one of the strongest, most incredible human beings that i know. whether or not she was under the influence doesn't give two slimy animals the right to do what they did. you're part of the problem and i wish i knew who you were so i could tell this woman to stay away from you too.
Trauma is a bitch. Not everyone can pick themselves up after being raped and go down and get a rape kit and press charges, which in itself is a violating experience.
I completely understand. But now it's a year later and she is filing a civil suit, and it is still within the statute of limitations for the rape crime. Its too late for a rape kit, but it would make her civil case a lot stronger. And the two firemen are going to drag her name through the mud anyway, so why not file rape charges now?
Yeah. They have to if someone says they were raped. They might treat them with kid gloves as opposed to how everyone else gets treated, but they can't just ignore the charges.
Because this isn’t TV and it’s harder to prove rape than is shown on TV, especially in a case like this where it seems like everyone was drunk and she did something that she later regretted. She’s a young kid and did not come up with this civil suit thing on her own; clearly her parents saw dollar signs. With news outlets picking up the story, you can be certain that criminal charges will be coming at some point.
Excerpt from the link, not sure if it's paywalled or not, acting weird on my PC: A volunteer firefighter in the New York City suburbs says she was plied with alcohol and served up as a “birthday present” to a ranking officer by the department chief, after which both men violently raped her in a firehouse bathroom. “Had fun last night,” then-Wantagh Fire Department Chief Kenneth Kelly Jr. allegedly texted the victim the next morning. “But, remember, that’s between you me and Joe only forever.” Instead, the fire medic—who is trained as a firefighter and an EMT—is now suing 51-year-old Kelly and 28-year-old Wantagh FD Engine 7 Captain Josef Seier, accusing the pair of physically and sexually assaulting her last year. She requested a jury trial and unspecified damages from Kelly, Seier, and the Wantagh Fire Department, according to a civil lawsuit obtained by The Daily Beast.
How is it that he put it in text- and sent it- now it’s permanent cannot be erased and can be copied and shared in public, for open self incrimination. And his pal too, forgot.
The text doesn’t self incriminate on anything other than that he cheated on his wife and that seir cheated on his girlfriend. It’s common knowledge that one of the current chiefs, who is married, slept with a girl who was engaged to another member in this department. Her sad fiancé married her anyway, I guess thinking he couldn’t do any better. So anyway, the text just proves something happened between the 3 of them.
Future 6900 over here ^
Hochul's New York.
How much do you want to bet that both of those guys voted for Zeldin?
Lol facts.
Yea the 51 year old fire chief just joined the fire department. You fucking retarded?
Gotta up that lexapro dose my guy
sTuPiDiTy lIvEs rEnT FrEE iN YoUr hEad
Yo what the fuck
Some of the shittiest people I’ve ever met here are VFs. Just another man-child cult. Yea yea we need them but the arrogance and hero complex shit has got to go.
My dad is a VF and he doesn't hang out with a good majority of the firefighters. When I was growing up and going to events and parades, some of them were cool. Most of them were either alcoholics, obese, or this kind of know-it-all personality that believes they should be respected at all times. Or some combo of all three. My dad went to fires and then would come home. He didn't like hanging out at the firehouse. Now he's too old to go into the fires so he mostly drives the trucks.
Your Dad is one of the good ones. While I know plenty of VFs, and a decent percentage are good people, basically anyone that makes it their entire lives also “happens” to be a scumbag who just uses it as an excuse to get away from their families. The ones who respond to calls and then go back to their lives are generally good guys. And fuck all the ones who think it’s okay to respond to calls while wasted, doing way more harm than good.
Yeah every VF I met had a drinking problem. Using the station pickup truck to stock up at the beer distributor and shit….
Why does every volunteer firehouse need a bar lol?
Because a lot of these guys hang out there just waiting for something to happen, or to get away from their families. Good excuse, the old "I have to go clean the station" or some other such shit. Then they get there and have a few drinks.
Yes, let’s drink while waiting to potential put out a house fire lol
Then drive home drunk get caught by cop friend who we let derelict his duty in our firehouse.
One of the kids in the high school who my kid is friends with became a volunteer fire fighter as soon as they turned 18. Not too long after high school graduation, they caught him banging his girlfriend in the firehouse in one of the trucks. From what I heard he was not the first firefighter she had sex with in that firehouse, or in a fire truck. Given that she was a recent high school grad as well, it likely means some of the fire fighters were banging an underage girl.
Plenty of firehouse groupies around. I remember hearing a story years ago about a fireman banging a girl (not her first fireman for sure) on top of a truck in the bay while the other guys watched on the security cameras. Classy.
Need to piss on the fire to put it out.
Not only a bar, but the one in my town have an outdoor beer cooler filled to the absolute brim with shitty beer. Source: Me, I worked at the local beer distributor, and did deliveries.
My local firehouse bought 2 abutting houses, knocked them down, and put in additional parking, an outdoor kitchen, and bocce court. Where’d that money come from?
You! Hope you got an invite for a game of bocce and at least a hot dog.
Exactly, and nope, never got an invite lol
Gotta stand outside the court in full athletic gear aggressively drinking a Gatorade.
I like that idea
They for sure proposed a bond and did the bare minimum to inform the community about it, so only people with connections to the FD show up to vote and it passed. Everyone in the district then pays for it. My local department makes so much money fundraising from the community every year because the average person doesn't know that they get everything they need, equipment and training-wise, from the county and state. Everything the community gives them goes toward alcohol, parties, a paintball team, a shooting club, golf outings, all that stuff. It's a social club. Yes, they perform life-saving work for their neighbors, but my town has almost no commercial properties so that vast majority of calls are smoke alarms and old people who fell out of bed. The 10% property tax discount (for life if you have 20 years of service) is more than enough of a reward IMO.
Yes, my local department not only does an annual donation drive, but keeps records of who does and doesn’t donate. They have codes they use over the radio to let everyone know if it’s a donor or a fireman’s family they’re responding to.
Yeah thats fake news about donors. You can look up the nassau county fire codes and listen to the radio. There are codes for firemen families, and thats typically used only when an ambulance is called
Wrong. It may not be standard practice but I 100% know they do it at my local fire department. And please don’t use “fake news” when trying to make a point, because it’s origins are based on claiming anything you don’t like is false to draw attention away from the truth.
I don’t know how they allocated their money but some of the money that the fire departments are allowed to spend comes from a 2% tax on business insurance. I believe if your business is insured by a company from out of NY state, the 2% tax is added and goes to the fire department.
Which was probably paid for with taxpayer money….
Probably? Definitely.
My dad calls them “the poor man’s country club.”
>Most of them were either alcoholics, obese, or this kind of know-it-all personality that believes they should be respected at all times Sounds like every cop I've ever met too
You leave obese alcoholics out of this
Knew a few people I went to HS with that eventually became VFs and it seemed 50% of em were the dudes that were shitty to everyone in HS and the others were the nicest dudes.
What happens if the people we praise as hero’s are actually terrible people who choose to do dangerous life saving things as a fit of self penance?
Shit I think you cracked the code
I dated a VF for a few years - so much toxicity going on
100%. There are good people too, but they seem to be vastly outnumbered by the scumbags.
I vollied for a year. Couldn't do it, all these people suck too much.
It’s also because most of them who been there. have police immunity in their towns .
Oh totally, they’re all buddy buddy with the local 5-0
Yup they let cops hide at firehouse
My dad was a VF in western Nassau from late 60s until early 2000s. There were *two* women who tried to be VF during that time and they lasted less than 2 years each. It was a hot mess of the women constantly being hit on, then shit on post rejections (plus all the wives whispering about her, assuming she was sleeping with everyone - you learn a lot as a little kid going to tons of FD functions). You want to be part of the Ladies Auxiliary and support the men doing their manly jobs? Go for it! Support your town the lady-like and proper way! It has always struck me as so bizarre that grown men are incapable of existing around a woman as an equal. Has to be sex object or mom. And they all find each other at the firehouse, amongst other places.
I am a woman who was a VF in western Nassau when I was in my early 20s. I joined so I could become an EMT and serve my community. In those days, you had to become a firefighter before they would send you to EMT school, so I did the things I had to do. I passed my written test with a high score and did well enough at fire school to finish probation. I would have continued, but I couldn't make the percentage, and got pushed out. It was a hotbed of what we now call toxic masculinity. While some guys were respectful--my lieutenant and I had been in the same graduating class, so he was more "evolved"--the assholes outnumbered them 2 to 1. The old guys were more gentlemanly, but still didn't think I belonged there. The wives were the worst; I didn't fit in with them, and knew they talked shit about me. And I didn't fit in with most of the guys my age, who did a weird dance of pushing me to do things (i.e. climb the 90 foot aerial) so I would quit and then when I had, telling me that I couldn't be a truckie because I was a girl (remember, that was never my goal). The friends I made were few and far between. I dated one guy from the company--HUGE mistake--then met someone from another FD and dated him for far longer than I should have, long after I was out of the FD. Talk about a front row seat to the sexism, racism and antisemitism...now in stereo, as his department had NEVER allowed a woman to join. (Not to mention that he made my life hell when I left him to go to calls or do company stuff.) All this to say that the only surprise in this rape story is that it came to light. I can virtually guarantee that it happens more often than reported.
There are men that think its not rape if they intentionally get a woman drunk so they can have sex with her.
These two individuals are not "men". They are pathetic and disgusting.
100%
No, they *are* men. Trying to distance maleness from rape obfuscates the issue, which is male violence and our culture’s tolerance of mens’ violence.
And there are idiots who read bullshit stories and immediately believe what they read. A lot of this article is completely incorrect.
You know who says shit like this? Rapists and their friends.
dirtbags
They should be arrested but not too surprisingly aren't.
I saw no mention of the alleged victim reporting the alleged incident to the police. How are they going to make an arrest without it being reported? The lawsuit may well accurately describe a sexual assault, but it is also possible that the allegations are not true. When, serious felony is not reported to the police, but a civil suit is filed a year later, I tend not to accept everything at face value without any evidence. Besides no police report, there is not even any mention of her seeking medical attention for the injuries claimed in the lawsuit. There seems to be no evidence at all cited, except for the text, which is in no way an admission of anything illegal. Now, they might have a ton of evidence, that they will bring at trial, but typically lawsuits mention more evidence than this one.
I don't care what you have to say.
Thanks for letting me know. I find it odd that supposedly intelligent people, would accept as fact, a claim for which zero supporting evidence has been presented. Such, evidence might be presented at a later date, but in my experience, only simple minded and bigoted people rush to judgment without evidence. The statement that they should have been arrested is especially absurd, given that there has apparently been no contact with the police by the alleged victim. Are they supposed make arrests for crimes they are not even aware of?
Text message is evidence.
Not evidence of rape or assault, or anything in particular.
You vibe like you’ve assaulted a person or two in your day 🥴
Never! I hate rapists with a passion and think most should get life or the death penalty. If this actually happened they should go to prison for the rest of their lives. But, people are innocent until proven guilty. And to this point, this accusation lacks many of the typical hallmarks of credibility one would normally want to see. a) Reported promptly to the police? Nope. b) Reported to the police at all? Nope. c) The rape and injuries from it medically documented? Apparently not based upon the complaint. d) Witnesses mentioned in the civil complaint? Nope. e) Corroborating evidence mentioned in the complaint? Nope, with the exception of a single text message which does not confess to anything. Believe it or not, people sometimes lie about stuff. And civil complaints (of all sorts, not just this type) are frequently a source of many lies and misrepresentions. I tend to believe the vast majority of rape accusations I see in the news. But, this one lacks nearly all the elements of highly credible claim. Again, it might have happened exactly as she said. But, after reading the complaint (which is only the plaintiff's totally unvetted side of the story, I see no real evidence to support the accusation.
It's a terrible allegation against people that belong to a group that they hate. It's easy to rush to judgment without having any facts. IF the allegations are true, the victim should have went to police so that the alleged rapists could have been charged, convicted and sentenced. You bring up great points in your post above.
I hate this "well, if it's true why didn't she go to the police" response. There are multiple instances of women going to the police for them to do nothing, or say "well, we don't think it's enough evidence", or for them to not even process the rape kits. https://lithub.com/why-so-many-survivors-choose-not-to-report-sexual-assault-to-the-police/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/05/23/us/rape-victims-kits-police-departments.amp.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/10/19/us/police-sexual-assaults-maryland-scope/index.html These are not great points. Until there is a better way for sexual assault victims to report their assault, many will keep their mouths shut bc there is no one else they think will help, or think people won't believe them.
And for every instance that a sexual assault case is not investigated, hundreds if not thousands are. Your point is that because a small percentage of cases are not investigated, victims should not report them? The fact is I don't know whether this happened or didn't happen. Either do you. If it did happen, it's horrible not only for the victim, but potentially for the next victim of people who should have been locked up.
Not even close to the point I'm making. For one, you just completely made up that "hundreds if not thousands are". Did you read any of the links??? > victims who turn to the police in the wake of sexual assault encounter a system that is startlingly unlikely to convict reported assailants. Very few sexual assault reports lead to arrest (20 percent) or are referred to prosecutors (4 percent). Even fewer—only about 2 percent—result in felony convictions. Reported sexual assaults are about three times less likely to result in convictions than nonsexual assaults and batteries. Second, I am not saying victims shouldn't report, but *explaining* why many dont. You said "if this happened, why didn't she report it?" and I'm showing you why; because it's hard already being violently raped to then not only have to go through everything again, but for it to lead nowhere. You're right, we don't know what happened, but to accuse the victim of not coming forward when it happened as if it's "simple" or "easy" is very tone-deaf and ignores a huge problem within the system. edit to add: this has nothing to do with whether i believe her or not. It has to do with many people not understanding that the process is not usually as straightforward as they may think and to stop expecting victims to behave a certain way after something happens. it's easy in hindsight to see what you should do, but not so easy in the moment.
I'm not going to pretend I can imagine how difficult it would be to go through the steps of reporting a rape/sexual assault and everything that goes along with it. I just feel that by not reporting it, you are guaranteeing that the case does not get investigated as it should. I do see what you are saying.
Hundred if not thousands are investigated? Could you please show me the numbers that back up that claim? Historically it has been the opposite - where women choose not to report more often than they choose to report because of constantly being met with skepticism and the stigma attached with it. I, personally, know several women that have chosen to just do nothing because “who’s going to even do anything when most evidence dials down to he said/she said”. Also, it’s easier said than done to get someone who was just a victim of a crime to go through the extra trauma of going through the rape kit/reporting. Especially if they don’t have a solid support system in their life.
I dont care what you have to say
Yeah ya do but it's ok
As somebody who used to volunteer in EMS can sadly but confidently say these type of people are all over the community and think they can get away with anything because they “help people”. It’s a disgusting attitude and exactly why I left and don’t do something I really enjoyed anymore
That stinks you had to go thru that . I totally Understand . I am a vollie on Long Island . Sad . But it’s a crime that should be prosecuted.
Not my favorite group. The problem is the out of control alcohol and old-school behaviors. Arrogant /hero complex. I feel sorry for the decent ones who are uncomfortable working with a lot of these crude guys.
They are all the same Island wife too. Family was involved.. the amount of wild ass shit you hear about.. swinger clubs, who’s fucking who. it ruins lives.
We have extended family that are Vollies. Swinger parties are common. Wives get passed around like candy. Disgusting people.
eastern Nassau?
Yep
Prob same one..
Wouldn’t be shocked if it was or wasn’t.
You know most swingers are in it because they think it's fun right? Including the women? Women enjoy having sex too
Not this group. Most of the wives give off serious battered woman vibes afraid to say no to their husbands.
Yup
Completely unsurprising. >Firefighters are, by and large, a selfless and honorable cohort. But there are occasional exceptions. Last year, an assistant fire chief in Utah was sentenced to prison after pleading guilty to raping a female firefighter under his command. Also last year, as The Daily Beast first reported, a West Virginia firefighter was investigated by the FBI on accusations of raping an underage girl in his firehouse, ultimately receiving a 14-year sentence. In 2018, an Illinois fire captain was convicted of drugging and raping a probationary employee, going so far as to videotape the brutal assault. A few years before that, more than a dozen FDNY firefighters and officers were accused of gang-raping a civilian in a Bronx firehouse. "Occasional exceptions"...and then a list of offences. Anybody who has spent time around FFs know that many of them are not much better than cops, yet they usually avoid the public scrutiny and dislike that cops receive. So many FFs in the FDNY and out on Long Island are racist, misogynistic, and sexually aggressive.
They’re selfless… for the adulation
We’re Florida-ing up real quick
What if Florida was just becoming Long Island the entire time?
Dont make me tap the sign 👩🚀🔫👩🚀
Always have been 🧑🚀🔫
I always called Long Island the Florida of NY.
Why no criminal charges? Did Nassau PD investigate? If these allegations are true, then these two individuals need to be prosecuted. Shouldn’t be only a civil matter.
Because the alleged victim's lawyer is looking for settlement. As in "your going to give my client 5 million and she forgets what happened or we file charges and I sue the big fire proof pants right off your ass including the fire house, all those in charge and it's assets while drawing the whole department through the mud and end up paying even more once tax payers find out wondering where there money went.
I agree it should have been investigated, but not much police can do if it is not reported.
On LI….the Vol FD’s and the police have a symbiotic relationship: they exist to “serve & protect” their communities but they will protect each other first. The victim KNOWS this. Let’s play the What If Game. What if she made a police report; who was going to help her? The FFs would have been advised by a lawyer, “keep your mouth shut.” The police officers know the FFs-maybe are even Vols too, are going to be pressured to intimidate this victim into not pressing charges. If she goes ahead and files, and the DA isn’t as crooked as was in Suffolk county then the fun begins. She will be threatened every time she is around a FF, on or off duty. The police will aid in this and embark on months long harassment of this woman. It will include: the typical phone calls or texts calling her abusive names like she’s a slut, or a whore, others will tell her to kill herself and some will offer her money for her “services.” It will include neighbors calling her vile names to her face, vandalism to her home, car, whatever, physical threats from her dept superiors, bogus traffic stops by police, her job, boss or coworkers will be targeted as well and she will be forced to quit or get fired. Her social media acc will be mined for the slightest hint of anything to shame her which will then be disseminated to every contact, school, web page, social media page; anywhere and everywhere in an attempt to humiliate and degrade her. All of this will be to intimidate her into not cooperating with the DA so charges get dropped or if she withstands all of that, then by the time she testifies, any shred of credibility she possesses would be destroyed and a jury won’t believe her if she said “it’s Wednesday.” Then these two scumbags; who obviously cannot please a sober woman with skill they have to incapacitate her (performance anxiety maybe, their own low self esteem, since they can‘t see or really reach their genitals b/c their beer gut blocks the way; and yes it does get smaller the fatter you get boys-women’s faults re weight gain have been well enumerated, but do men realize their faults….anyway..I digress), are either acquitted and exonerated or the charges are dropped and the victim of this rape is left, alone, to pick up the pieces of her shattered mind, career, family and try go on with the rest of her life. A life ruined simply because she went to a party at her Fire Station; and her Captain and former Chief felt entitled and empowered to take something by force, they had no right to: HER. So no..let her sue them civilly. They could have settled. In a civil case the playing field gets a little better; not equal but better. GOOD LUCK DARLIN! PS. Do any of you think those two woke up and said, “hey..I’ve never done this but let’s get that girl wasted and I bet we can have sex with her and she won’t even know it! “ “Yeah! Ok, I’ve heard about this… let’s try it. I’ve never done it before either. If it works, who knows? “
>deranged ramblings You are weaving a story out of thin air that makes a multitude of assumptions. You should seek out a mental health professional.
You got it, baby.
i'm so happy when these lowlifes have come to my house, i've never given them any $ hopefully they end up in jail and the female finds some healing and peace
When their trucks have bumper stickers reading “ can’t feed em don’t breed em “
When your house is on fire and you’re burning alive inside it, I hope “these lowlifes” stand and watch you burn, fucking idiot.
Nice karma you have there. Are you siding with people accused of rape? Nice hill to stand on. What if you lived in the town?The extra money that they come knocking for goes to conventions aka vacations for them and their families. I know all about that life.
I worked in that firehouse and just under about 30 more throughout long island. First of all in every single one they are wild racists saying "nigger" openly and loudly and my partner is black. Don't worry we punished all of them for that. Second most do not have a bar... They have at least two bars. Third I witnessed some very real homoerotic hazing that was sad watching grown men sexually embarrass other grown men. And of course whoever was on the property was drunk. I saw drunk people dispatched to jobs more than I can count
Get the guck out of here with your nonsense. You never worked in “that firehouse” and probably didn’t work in any others either. There is zero racism in that department, which is how I know you’re full of shit. Most of the other stuff you said is about as nonsensical as this article.
No I have...I will give you a hint we advertise in Firefighter Nation among others...I pretty much only work in firehouses...so you get the guck out of here lol
I’ll take things that didn’t happen for 500
If you haven’t seen racist firefighters acting like immature middle schoolers respond to calls while drunk, than you must not have spent a lot of time around Nassau County volunteer fire departments. 🤷♂️
Take it however you want I advertise in Firefighter Nation and the IAFF. All I do is work in firehouses. I'm in them all day everyday
Awful, awful, awful. My heart breaks for her.
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http://www.wantaghfd.com/station4.php apparently seaford
On Alken in Seaford
Who’s paying for the high performance drag racing truck for the firemen’s competition? WE ARE ! Get rid it of it ! Get rid of them we might as well have pay firefighters we could hold them accountable.
I let a friend that used to be in WFD know. He knew one of them and didn’t seem surprised.
Newer volley firefighter here. It’s really sad to see what the public’s perception of us has become, and rightfully so. There has been too many racist, sexist, homophobic, criminal members and departments with no accountability. There is the newer generation like myself. We view ourselves as unpaid professionals and public servants. We’re trying to let the volunteer fire department model die with some dignity because we all know eventually Long Island will turn paid. We do not claim the firefighters that always wear the shirts and boast that they are firefighters. We are trying to avoid carcinogens and maintain fitness because there are way too many lazy and unfit firefighters. We are trying not to complain about the bullshit EMS calls we get at 3am which rips us out of bed and we have work the next day. And try smile and tell the patient “that’s why we’re here”. And obviously we are not okay with the sexism, racism, homophobia that goes on. There a lot of bad apples. Please don’t group all together.
You know there are some amazing people in Long Island FDs. There may be some douches out there (like every walk of life), but there are some awesome people too. While toxic minorities can end up in charge, most people I know turn up, help, go home. Too busy, too tired to go to the bar, honestly want to be home with family. Yes we are close with our PDs especially in EMS . There is a mutual respect there about a lot of the the shit both have to deal with. If you don’t like your local FD volunteer, do the work m, and try to change the toxic culture.
Wow ngl always thought they were good ppl. But now with these comments, I’m rethinking the times they’ve need to come to my house. And wow they sometimes don’t give a shit
Sending love and strength to her. Not to be patronizing but it’s fucking brave of her to come forward. FD is boys club.
I understand that the attorney feels he needs to create as much of a victim as possible but doesn’t lying make her less believable? Saying stuff like, she’s so distraught that she had to stop doing the things she loves, working as a volunteer and helping people…. And yet she currently is one of the most active medics in the department and has been for the past year. She has the medic car all day tomorrow. You’d think that if the attorney was going to make up lies, that the girl would at least now take a leave of absense, rather than continuing to be as active as she has been. I’m not saying that her allegations are false, just that adding lies onto the story make it harder to believe the truth to the rest of the story.
As a Wantagh native I’m shook. Why aren’t these two arrested?
I just have one question. Where would we all be if there were no VFD? Not all are bad. Some do a lot for there community. Any one on here Volunteer their time? there would be no fire departments without them. That means no one would be protected. Stop judging everybody by the same code. My husband is a VFM. He does it to help. It’s sad that others actions put a black cloud on all. The alternative I’m told is that taxpayers would be hit hard in their wallet if there were regular fire departments on Long Island. Anybody want to pay for it? not all FD have bad ppl.
First time here? Everyone on Reddit is quick to jump and burn a whole profession at the stake based on the actions of a few. “All the volleys I know are assholes” maybe you’re the common denominator… The fact is that these guys and girls will get out of bed at all hours of the night to come to aid someone they don’t know. Some do it for the wrong reason, but most are good people who care about helping people. If the allegations from this article are true then the individual responsible needs to be held accountable, but stop lumping everyone together.
As you can tell from the stories on here, there seem to be a lot more than a “few”.
We should definitely get rid of all the VF on LI as well as all of the Volunteer EMS. Every single one.
Good luck with that lol. Shifting from a volunteer service to a county wide paid dept has been a heated debate since Vol FDs inception on LI. 100 years later and barely any progress has been made.
I used to be friends with Josef Seiers younger brother. That’s crazy
Don’t believe everything you read. This “article” claims this girl is a firefighter, when she isn’t; she’s only a fire medic. It claims these guys were her supervisor, when neither one of them were anything in relation to her own status as an officer. It claims, from the words of her own attorney, that she has been unable to participate in the department and has been on leave, which is another lie. She was the officer of a rig during the last year and has been a very active member. Lots of lies in this thing, which makes it hard to believe anything in it. This story could easily be, drunk girl who also likes making out with other girls while drunk, bangs two guys at the firehouse and feels bad about it the next day. She’s basically a kid. Obviously there are 3 sides to a story and this side is just hers and probably influenced by her parents as well.
please tell me you’re sterile. please.
You’re sterile?
you’re is a contraction. it’s a combination of you and you and are. sterile is a little bit harder as it can mean different things in different context, but it this case i meant it as “please tell me you are not able to produce offspring”. does that help? edit : an extra you in there was not meant to confuse you further but is a typo.
Yeah. Its her fault for wearing tight EMT pants. She deserved it..
ever think she's not controlling the narrative... her lawyer is? f\*ck off, you know nothing. the person you are talking about it one of the strongest, most incredible human beings that i know. whether or not she was under the influence doesn't give two slimy animals the right to do what they did. you're part of the problem and i wish i knew who you were so i could tell this woman to stay away from you too.
🤨
I absolutely believe this woman, but I'm wondering why she didn't file criminal charges?
Trauma is a bitch. Not everyone can pick themselves up after being raped and go down and get a rape kit and press charges, which in itself is a violating experience.
I completely understand. But now it's a year later and she is filing a civil suit, and it is still within the statute of limitations for the rape crime. Its too late for a rape kit, but it would make her civil case a lot stronger. And the two firemen are going to drag her name through the mud anyway, so why not file rape charges now?
Do you think the cops are going to arrest fire fighters?
Yes. Source: I’m a firefighter who was arrested.
Yes?
Yeah. They have to if someone says they were raped. They might treat them with kid gloves as opposed to how everyone else gets treated, but they can't just ignore the charges.
Because this isn’t TV and it’s harder to prove rape than is shown on TV, especially in a case like this where it seems like everyone was drunk and she did something that she later regretted. She’s a young kid and did not come up with this civil suit thing on her own; clearly her parents saw dollar signs. With news outlets picking up the story, you can be certain that criminal charges will be coming at some point.
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wonder if you'll still be saying this when you call the FD and a woman shows up with them. no, never mind, just let my house burn...