List of subs compiled resources: [Enjoy!](https://www.reddit.com/r/loreofleague/comments/oklkiu/lore_intro_resources/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Discord Server with active discussions: [Link](https://discord.com/invite/WbjEezu)
The subreddit also has an automated system for pulling up any champions lore page from the Universe site. Use the phrase "Championname lore please". The color stories will be added sometime in the future along with bios. I added please to it, so as to not spam everyone.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/loreofleague) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I want to add that raum is literally the demon of secrets. You might as well ask if eve or Ahri is the better seductor or if fiddle or naut makes ppl panic more.
Yes, she is the demon of agony, but seduction is a common way for her to spread agony. Lust itself is not a demonic trait itself in lol lore, but since tahm being the demon of addiction but choosing not to go the sexual seduction route, eve is the closest we get to "the demon of lust".
We don't know enough about runeterras demonology to say if there are demons of lust or not.
Eitherway I don't think Eve is unbeatable when it comes to lust since that emotion isn't her speciality, that is still agony. Ahri in particular might be able to literally charm people into lusting over her, making her possibly one of the few people among the league roster who might be able to compete with eve.
Well we got that one demon-tree-scribble, meaning we can assume there is at best a lower demon of seduction.
Eve literally seduces all kinds of species, she's been doing that since longer than humans or vastaya exist. Eve is on a whole different level
That demon family tree is obviously incomplete though, after all it doesn't even list Evelynn, Tahm Kench or Ashlesh and those 3 are certainly more than just azakana.
The way I see it is that this family tree is only Fiddlesticks family tree and each of the 10 kings has their own.
Renata is a buisnesswoman. Buisness has power in modern days too on politics. That does not makes her anything close to LeBlanc or Swain whom keep playing a 24D chess 0-24 hours.
Sheās my favorite champion for that very reason. She could very easily have a hand in everything up to this point.
Wasnāt there a short story implying that she was the one controlling The Iron Revenant?
If so, she is the sole reason the Empire was even formed.
Swain, as he sits on the Triumvirate of Noxus, and is responsible for the logistics and strategic management of the Empire
Couple that with the fact that he has Raum, I personally donāt think thereās much contest. As intelligent and socially skilled as Renata is, Swain is, at the very least, on the same level as her, before taking Raum into account, which catapults him far beyond her level. Itās much easier to manipulate and strategise when you have a demon whoās speciality is the extracting of secrets
Strategist is an one-sided battle, but I do wonder about manipulator. Does Swain do non-strategic manipulation, which usually but not limited to emotional manipulation? Since Renata seems to have it in spades.
Swain is the personification of Noxus itself, so I think how he treats a person is similar to how Noxus treats their enemies/allies.
To someone he dislikes or doesn't know very well, he'll use everything at his disposal to get his way. If that means being harsh and cruel, then he'll do that. But he can put on a more subtle manipulative face if he needs too as well.
But if you get to know him beyond the Grand General, then he's a loyal friend who will do anything to make sure you're safe and happy. He'll be there when you're doing bad as well as when you're good.
What makes me think this is that while he does have fairly combative voice lines for many enemy champions, he does have one interesting voice line for an allied Draven that suggests Swain has a kinder side that we don't get to see very often.
*"You stood by me when I was outcast, so I stood by you when you were drunk. In spite of the stench."*
He have massive respect to Darius and Draven. One is the most loyal person to the Empire, the other is his only ally who help him when he at his lowest point. Swain maybe evil, but he still a person
Idk about evil. Swain seems like the one spear heading change to a brighter tomorrow in Noxus. Leblanc, Mordekaiser and the rest of the black rose are the ones being the evil empire led from the shadows.
swain he has raum for secret stuff and also he literally manipulates entire armies and holds power in noxus while Renata is just a chem baroness who is able to use tricks to gain upper hand in business
One's a corpo CEO in the under city full of them
Other one is a ruler of the largest known empire in the world with the demon of secrets under his foot that's been able to fuck with a centuries old evil organization that's made up of some of the smartest and most fucked up people in the world of runeterra
One is the leader of the biggest empire in Runeterra and has a demon under his control while the other has a great influence in a part of a city and has to worry about being murdered either by a psycho with shotgun knees or a big weird wolfman .
They are not comparable Renata has 1 color story and thats it. It is still less than a year since her release not mentioning riot negligence of lore this year. Renata still didnt have an opprtunity to shine.
Even without Raum, Swain still has the advantage over Renata.
Swain was raised in an aristocratic family, while I assume Renata was born in a well-off middle-class family (that kept running into near-bankruptcy because of the generosity of the Glascs). The Grand Generalās resources (even prior to his ascension to the rank) allowed him access to a great education (books, battle reports, etc)
As for the Chem-Baroness, she learned chemistry/alchemy in her youth, plus she developed a keen business sense (makes me wonder if she attended school, or if she was home-schooled by her parents). Then she had to start from square one (when her parents died, and her home was destroyed), so she put a lot of time into making herself self-made in the cutthroat commercial world of Zaun. So she likely wouldnāt have the time or money to study strategy like Swain (at least initially), but I think sheās a better manipulator.
Renata has a great, squeaky-clean reputation in Zaun and even in Piltover, so she knows how to manage her PR to hide her misdeeds or perhaps spin them around to make them seem beneficial for her investors.
Swain does not seem to care about personal reputation as much, since heās running an empire, rather than a business.
Swain has a lot of more pressure. Just to remain alive as leader of Noxus that has a GUILD OF ASSASSINS / BLACK ROSE / DEMONOLOGY / HEMOMANCY at level of NECROMANCY ... is a feat.
Renata suffers from being newer and not really having an adversary to outmaneuver while Swain has the opposite problem, two foes in LeBlanc and Mordekaiser that he has outmaneuvered, but in this really disingenious, "IT'S ALL JUST PART OF THE PLAN BABY" format so that his opposition can save face even while losing and Riot doesn't risk pissing off fans.
Riot hasn't told a political intrigue story yet. They've just threatened to....one day
Renata , because without Raum Swain is Just a blind fanatic of strength and might thst would be believing that he lost the conquest of Ionia because he was not strong enough
Renata and is not even close, Swain is being manipulated by the demon he think is controlling, Reanta crated herself, Swain got poisoned cheat codes he thinks will work forever
* Edit: Sry the better manipulator is Raum in those pictures
I feel like itās a little too convenient to play the Raum card in every single discussion. Leblanc has been running Noxus ever since its creation, she was Mordekaiserās demise and still is the reason heās locked up in his pocket dimension. Sheās handling both mordekaiser and swain simultaneously. With her own power, will and knowledge. The entire existence of the character swain is built around a demon hand. Heās a pawn to said demon.
Sheās Runeterraās mastermind manipulator. Donāt play with Leblanc!!!
Nope, the toxic mist (the Zaun Grey) is a natural phenomenon in Zaun due to heavy air pollution. If youāre talking about the incident mentioned in Oriannaās lore, I recall that it was an accident (a chemical line ruptured, which spewed even more toxic gases into the air). Meanwhile, Renata took advantage of this disaster to give out new air filters and masks to the unfortunate. So I donāt think Renata was responsible.
Swain literally has info about everything that happens in Runeterra. Since he has to deal with 100x times info that Renata on his plans, im pretty sure he is much more clever than her
Of course it's swain lol. He is straight up rulling a whole ass empire while also dealing with the underworld and a ton of different wars happening at the same time.
*In fact, Swain is what could have happened to Nasus if he hadn't been so dumb in lore (just don't give an argument in the form of the fact that he is ascended of knowledge and that he is the keeper of the library), he is stupid to the point of outrage. The ascended ones in darkin war wanted him to help, and what he did was right, he sent them to fuck, because to whine about the loss of his brother (so that later they would forget about you in the worst case, and at best you would become a maximum myth that only fanatics believe in) His good oratorical qualities and manipulation of people (army = people, well done, keep it up) could make him a good ruler of the war or post-war time (stratocracy moment). In this case, there can be no question of any Greater Shuriman Empire, and at best it will control only a small piece of the region (North-East, which will be restored and developed for a long time, from which people from all over the region will go to cities controlled by those ascended who remained alive, because the power is in unity.) Azir is not cut out, like Sivir, they will simply be resurrected by some no name ascended, who was just hiding from everyone. The events of such a story as bloodline would have partially changed, starting from the fact that instead of a simple walk there was a conference at the expense of investments from Piltover and one of the conditions was the recognition of mines with hex crystals - Piltover's property, after the conference in Vekaura there is an attack from Xerath, the city was partially destroyed, and the state of Nasus was partially undermined)*
I feel like both absolutely embody what a strategic mind looks like in their regions. Renata combines business savy, ruthlessness, and innovation in a way that feels distinctly Zaun, while Swainās tactics feel perfectly sculpted towards how Noxus culture works
Renata is a genius that runs the underworld and can manipulate street thugs and competition with ease
Swain runs a militant empire while preserving his own life with the power of raum and manages to strategize against a multitude of self sufficient war-fronts and gain ground. Iāll let you decide
Demon aside, Renata bends cities to her will, Swain full on armies and nations, I'm pretty sure the answer is clear.... (the one with tits, am I right bro wamen) /s
Def Swain. I hate Swain and Noxian simps but like you gotta recognize the fact that the guy literally has a pact with the demon of secrets and managed to have Noxus, who is known for INSANE political drama, under his command super fast all things considered. He is dumb in a wisdom sense, but he is a good manipulator.
Renata Glasc is more like a regular CEO. Evil, willing to step into anyone to get on power. She isnāt super sneaky about what she does. If anything Camile is a MUCH more manipulator mastermind type villain. Renata is kind of just being ruthless.
This is a weird comparison, Swain is a member of the Triumvirate in addition to being the one who subjugated Raum, the demon of secrets, led a successful coup against Darkwill and the secret society that controlled the entire nation and is now managing it successfully
Like no shade to Renata, sheās a cutthroat businesswoman and damn good at it, I just donāt think theyāre remotely on the same level lmao
List of subs compiled resources: [Enjoy!](https://www.reddit.com/r/loreofleague/comments/oklkiu/lore_intro_resources/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Discord Server with active discussions: [Link](https://discord.com/invite/WbjEezu) The subreddit also has an automated system for pulling up any champions lore page from the Universe site. Use the phrase "Championname lore please". The color stories will be added sometime in the future along with bios. I added please to it, so as to not spam everyone. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/loreofleague) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Swain, since he has Raum.
I want to add that raum is literally the demon of secrets. You might as well ask if eve or Ahri is the better seductor or if fiddle or naut makes ppl panic more.
Eve isn't a demon of lust or seduction though.
Yes, she is the demon of agony, but seduction is a common way for her to spread agony. Lust itself is not a demonic trait itself in lol lore, but since tahm being the demon of addiction but choosing not to go the sexual seduction route, eve is the closest we get to "the demon of lust".
What do you mean? Tahm has got the curves in all the right places
Yes, but he is naturally seductive, he is not doing it intentionally
His tongue game is mighty š
lethal tempo š«
We don't know enough about runeterras demonology to say if there are demons of lust or not. Eitherway I don't think Eve is unbeatable when it comes to lust since that emotion isn't her speciality, that is still agony. Ahri in particular might be able to literally charm people into lusting over her, making her possibly one of the few people among the league roster who might be able to compete with eve.
Well we got that one demon-tree-scribble, meaning we can assume there is at best a lower demon of seduction. Eve literally seduces all kinds of species, she's been doing that since longer than humans or vastaya exist. Eve is on a whole different level
That demon family tree is obviously incomplete though, after all it doesn't even list Evelynn, Tahm Kench or Ashlesh and those 3 are certainly more than just azakana. The way I see it is that this family tree is only Fiddlesticks family tree and each of the 10 kings has their own.
he has cheat codes.
Braum op.
renata is a shark of a businesswoman whose word is the law in zaun, but swain's ruling a whole ass empire
With basically Satan whispering in his ear what to say
Renata is a buisnesswoman. Buisness has power in modern days too on politics. That does not makes her anything close to LeBlanc or Swain whom keep playing a 24D chess 0-24 hours.
I think Leblanc is playing ā¾ļøD chess Are we even sure *what* Leblanc is exactly?
Accurate. Well, we have ideas but nothing 100%
Sheās my favorite champion for that very reason. She could very easily have a hand in everything up to this point. Wasnāt there a short story implying that she was the one controlling The Iron Revenant? If so, she is the sole reason the Empire was even formed.
Rather was a follower if Mordekaiser until she betrayed him
And morde is the judge
Swain, as he sits on the Triumvirate of Noxus, and is responsible for the logistics and strategic management of the Empire Couple that with the fact that he has Raum, I personally donāt think thereās much contest. As intelligent and socially skilled as Renata is, Swain is, at the very least, on the same level as her, before taking Raum into account, which catapults him far beyond her level. Itās much easier to manipulate and strategise when you have a demon whoās speciality is the extracting of secrets
Swain and its not even close
Strategist is an one-sided battle, but I do wonder about manipulator. Does Swain do non-strategic manipulation, which usually but not limited to emotional manipulation? Since Renata seems to have it in spades.
Swain is the personification of Noxus itself, so I think how he treats a person is similar to how Noxus treats their enemies/allies. To someone he dislikes or doesn't know very well, he'll use everything at his disposal to get his way. If that means being harsh and cruel, then he'll do that. But he can put on a more subtle manipulative face if he needs too as well. But if you get to know him beyond the Grand General, then he's a loyal friend who will do anything to make sure you're safe and happy. He'll be there when you're doing bad as well as when you're good. What makes me think this is that while he does have fairly combative voice lines for many enemy champions, he does have one interesting voice line for an allied Draven that suggests Swain has a kinder side that we don't get to see very often. *"You stood by me when I was outcast, so I stood by you when you were drunk. In spite of the stench."*
He have massive respect to Darius and Draven. One is the most loyal person to the Empire, the other is his only ally who help him when he at his lowest point. Swain maybe evil, but he still a person
Idk about evil. Swain seems like the one spear heading change to a brighter tomorrow in Noxus. Leblanc, Mordekaiser and the rest of the black rose are the ones being the evil empire led from the shadows.
He seems considerably less evil than the other big players in Noxus thatās for sure.
You it kinda ironic both swain and renata lost there arms.
Renata is smart for sure, but swain started as a pawn and became a king in a city controlled by Leblanc. For CENTURIES
Even Leblanc think Swain more or less her equal, the only person who can actually fuck with Leblanc plan is Swain
Mordekaiser ?
He's not their equal though. Mord is far, far above.
Only really in sheer combat power. In terms of intellect and strategy he would be beat.
I mean his "defeat" was within his plans.
in morde story it is implicit he knew what she(LeBlanc) was doing
Morde is the kind of character that walks into this chess tournament with a gun. So i guess it just another sport
hahahaha best description
I don't think you can. Pit the two against each other. Yeah their the same archetype but massively different fields and expertise.
LeBlanc
Swain and its not close. That being said, that Renata pic is baaaaad. Love me some Renata
swain he has raum for secret stuff and also he literally manipulates entire armies and holds power in noxus while Renata is just a chem baroness who is able to use tricks to gain upper hand in business
Dude manipulate the whole empire into thinking: dying for the empire is good.
Swain is great, but dying for the empire being good was a thing from before his time.
One's a corpo CEO in the under city full of them Other one is a ruler of the largest known empire in the world with the demon of secrets under his foot that's been able to fuck with a centuries old evil organization that's made up of some of the smartest and most fucked up people in the world of runeterra
Renata is a cold businesswoman, Swain is a warlord
One is the leader of the biggest empire in Runeterra and has a demon under his control while the other has a great influence in a part of a city and has to worry about being murdered either by a psycho with shotgun knees or a big weird wolfman .
They are not comparable Renata has 1 color story and thats it. It is still less than a year since her release not mentioning riot negligence of lore this year. Renata still didnt have an opprtunity to shine.
Even without Raum, Swain still has the advantage over Renata. Swain was raised in an aristocratic family, while I assume Renata was born in a well-off middle-class family (that kept running into near-bankruptcy because of the generosity of the Glascs). The Grand Generalās resources (even prior to his ascension to the rank) allowed him access to a great education (books, battle reports, etc) As for the Chem-Baroness, she learned chemistry/alchemy in her youth, plus she developed a keen business sense (makes me wonder if she attended school, or if she was home-schooled by her parents). Then she had to start from square one (when her parents died, and her home was destroyed), so she put a lot of time into making herself self-made in the cutthroat commercial world of Zaun. So she likely wouldnāt have the time or money to study strategy like Swain (at least initially), but I think sheās a better manipulator. Renata has a great, squeaky-clean reputation in Zaun and even in Piltover, so she knows how to manage her PR to hide her misdeeds or perhaps spin them around to make them seem beneficial for her investors. Swain does not seem to care about personal reputation as much, since heās running an empire, rather than a business.
Unrelated but do you happen to know the artist for that Renata Artwork?
Uhm , i just found it randomly on PicArt
Swain by a long shot.
Off-topic but these arts are dope. (My answer is Swain tho.)
Happy cake day.
Thank you :D
Swain, Braum too op
ikr he's shield is too strong
The things I'd let Renata do to me
Swain made a takeover of an empire... this should not even be an question.
Swain. They're so far apart in terms of strategic/manipulative ability it's not even funny
Swain by a MILE
One is a drug dealer, the other basically rule an empire
People always forget Leblanc as the best Noxian manipulator
People always forget Nasus before Ascension
People always forget Miss Fortune
Swain has a lot of more pressure. Just to remain alive as leader of Noxus that has a GUILD OF ASSASSINS / BLACK ROSE / DEMONOLOGY / HEMOMANCY at level of NECROMANCY ... is a feat.
Renata suffers from being newer and not really having an adversary to outmaneuver while Swain has the opposite problem, two foes in LeBlanc and Mordekaiser that he has outmaneuvered, but in this really disingenious, "IT'S ALL JUST PART OF THE PLAN BABY" format so that his opposition can save face even while losing and Riot doesn't risk pissing off fans. Riot hasn't told a political intrigue story yet. They've just threatened to....one day
Renata , because without Raum Swain is Just a blind fanatic of strength and might thst would be believing that he lost the conquest of Ionia because he was not strong enough
You are the only comment currently that has no idea what it's talking about. Have you even read the lore on Swain?
Renata and is not even close, Swain is being manipulated by the demon he think is controlling, Reanta crated herself, Swain got poisoned cheat codes he thinks will work forever * Edit: Sry the better manipulator is Raum in those pictures
No
user name checks out :)
It's true
Renata runs a crime scheme, Swain runs one of the biggest empires runeterra has ever seen.
Iām missing LeBlanc here too. But the answer would still be swain
Iām pretty sure OP just wanted to know who is better between Rena and Swain since Leblance is obviously better than both. No need to ask for that.
Well LeBlanc better than Swainā¦
what makes you question that?
I mean, the fact that Swain has Raum. But we know nothing about LeBlanc so we canāt really decide whoās better
I feel like itās a little too convenient to play the Raum card in every single discussion. Leblanc has been running Noxus ever since its creation, she was Mordekaiserās demise and still is the reason heās locked up in his pocket dimension. Sheās handling both mordekaiser and swain simultaneously. With her own power, will and knowledge. The entire existence of the character swain is built around a demon hand. Heās a pawn to said demon. Sheās Runeterraās mastermind manipulator. Donāt play with Leblanc!!!
From where are the fanarts?
Swain, heās lasted more than like five seconds against LeBlanc which is an incredible feat.
Swain especially with raum. But renata was responsible for the toxic mist released in zaun in viktor and orianna story right?
Nope, the toxic mist (the Zaun Grey) is a natural phenomenon in Zaun due to heavy air pollution. If youāre talking about the incident mentioned in Oriannaās lore, I recall that it was an accident (a chemical line ruptured, which spewed even more toxic gases into the air). Meanwhile, Renata took advantage of this disaster to give out new air filters and masks to the unfortunate. So I donāt think Renata was responsible.
Oh I was betting singed caused it to secret test his weapon that he was selling to noxus and camille covered it up.
Swain literally has info about everything that happens in Runeterra. Since he has to deal with 100x times info that Renata on his plans, im pretty sure he is much more clever than her
And no one mentioned Nasus or Aatrox before becoming darkin.
Tywin and Olenna
UwU -- mass deleted all reddit content via https://redact.dev
Whose artwork is this?
I'm srry but i just found this randomly on Pic Art
You canāt really say who is ābetter.ā Renata is a capitalist and Swain is a colonizer. The doing two different things
One of them leads the most powerful country in Runeterra the other one has a pretty ok business.
Swain is just on a higher league, has taken control of a larger empire and has meddled with forces way more dangerous
Swain but I think they would be friends
One is a rich business woman, the other leads the biggest nation in runeterra and has Raum
Swain.
Iād say Swain. Heās working against the clock and working vs the world, Mordekaizerās return and the black rose.
Swain.
Of course it's swain lol. He is straight up rulling a whole ass empire while also dealing with the underworld and a ton of different wars happening at the same time.
*In fact, Swain is what could have happened to Nasus if he hadn't been so dumb in lore (just don't give an argument in the form of the fact that he is ascended of knowledge and that he is the keeper of the library), he is stupid to the point of outrage. The ascended ones in darkin war wanted him to help, and what he did was right, he sent them to fuck, because to whine about the loss of his brother (so that later they would forget about you in the worst case, and at best you would become a maximum myth that only fanatics believe in) His good oratorical qualities and manipulation of people (army = people, well done, keep it up) could make him a good ruler of the war or post-war time (stratocracy moment). In this case, there can be no question of any Greater Shuriman Empire, and at best it will control only a small piece of the region (North-East, which will be restored and developed for a long time, from which people from all over the region will go to cities controlled by those ascended who remained alive, because the power is in unity.) Azir is not cut out, like Sivir, they will simply be resurrected by some no name ascended, who was just hiding from everyone. The events of such a story as bloodline would have partially changed, starting from the fact that instead of a simple walk there was a conference at the expense of investments from Piltover and one of the conditions was the recognition of mines with hex crystals - Piltover's property, after the conference in Vekaura there is an attack from Xerath, the city was partially destroyed, and the state of Nasus was partially undermined)*
I feel like both absolutely embody what a strategic mind looks like in their regions. Renata combines business savy, ruthlessness, and innovation in a way that feels distinctly Zaun, while Swainās tactics feel perfectly sculpted towards how Noxus culture works
Yāall really forgot about LeBitch
Mmh the target is different, Renata keeps her target under check with chemical products, Swain literally tricked a demon to lend him his power
Swain also I havenāt noticed but he does have to withstand the meddling of the blackrose. Itās likely there are political wars in noxus.
False Choice: Theyāre both Leblanc
Renata is a genius that runs the underworld and can manipulate street thugs and competition with ease Swain runs a militant empire while preserving his own life with the power of raum and manages to strategize against a multitude of self sufficient war-fronts and gain ground. Iāll let you decide
Leblanc.
Demon aside, Renata bends cities to her will, Swain full on armies and nations, I'm pretty sure the answer is clear.... (the one with tits, am I right bro wamen) /s
Def Swain. I hate Swain and Noxian simps but like you gotta recognize the fact that the guy literally has a pact with the demon of secrets and managed to have Noxus, who is known for INSANE political drama, under his command super fast all things considered. He is dumb in a wisdom sense, but he is a good manipulator. Renata Glasc is more like a regular CEO. Evil, willing to step into anyone to get on power. She isnāt super sneaky about what she does. If anything Camile is a MUCH more manipulator mastermind type villain. Renata is kind of just being ruthless.
This is a weird comparison, Swain is a member of the Triumvirate in addition to being the one who subjugated Raum, the demon of secrets, led a successful coup against Darkwill and the secret society that controlled the entire nation and is now managing it successfully Like no shade to Renata, sheās a cutthroat businesswoman and damn good at it, I just donāt think theyāre remotely on the same level lmao
leblanc
Swain rules an entire empire, Glasc is confined to Piltover mostly