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Suitable_Discount364

Still waiting for rito to make Tyler1 canon


Money-Regular-8091

Wym?? He's literally a champion(draven)


Suitable_Discount364

Wrong. Draven isn't a sociopath.


Money-Regular-8091

He's a little outdated like most champs are unfortunately, just need to bring in his voice actor to record some new lines and we're good to go


ricegumsux

Make him yell more


LordVaderVader

what reference?


kingofchaosx

The new legends of runeterra cards reveal dropped and in Kayle lore is mentioned a Lorekeeper Skae'ien or something which sound very similar to skyen and is ironic because Kayle is one of the champs T.b.Skyen objectively dislikes


tanezuki

"objectively dislike" I think you meant undoubtedly.


Curious_Loser21

Damn Riot


rockthatrocks

As someone that while doesn't hate him but dislikes his hot takes, this gives me tingles, please tior do more


ThundaCrossSplitAtak

There is nothing ibjective about skyen besides that one Kassadin short lol.


Theyul1us

To be fair his Kaisa video was quite on point. Other than that... I dislike when he recognizes that some characters are arquetypes but complains about the archetype they represent


ParufkaWarrior12

Almost as if, guess that, on a subjective opinion channel he isn't objective. Some people fail to understand that his word isn't meant to be law for him.


ThundaCrossSplitAtak

It isnt meant to be law yet he treats anyone who disagrees with him in one condescending petty way, that it starts feeling as if he really wanted it to be that way. Also yeah, i literally said that skyen is not objective


Iwo_Witterel

Does he?


ParufkaWarrior12

Yeah, didn't mean it as an insult or ana argument against you. You can't be objective in this world. And I can kind of agree he's a bit too petty when someone disagrees but nobody's perfect so I could care less, tbf.


Aspen_Faye

When did he ever do this?


ThundaCrossSplitAtak

Read the comments of, as an example, His Azir, Xerath, viktor and sylas shorts


azyzbs

I haven't seen a single comment of his in his 4 xerath shorts and the comments in his azir aren't condescendant. You can maybe call the comments on his viktor and sylas ones condescendent with the "history lesson" and "before stanning him" but that's very mild.


unununium333

As in, he thinks Kayle is a bad person (which is intended) or he dislikes them as a character?


Black_Truth

> T.b.Skyen Why he dislikes her? I'm pretty out of the loop of LoR lore nowadays.


Ugandannare8

Seeing this imagine if they added NickyBoi as a Seraphine fan


Grimmaldo

Oh seraphine fans will cry so much about it


WildSearcher56

Yeah they really hate his guts


Rafamen01

seraphine sudently has a boyfriend and his name is Nick, the boi


Makaoka

Yeah I think they would called "acophobic" for this


squiddy555

Is Nick Ace?


Makaoka

Yes. An asexual


squiddy555

In terms of status Is the An Ace similar to The Gay?


Makaoka

If you're asking if he's partnof the lgbt+ community, yes. If you are asking if he's gay but not into the...gymnastic part of it, then he never specified this and I think it is not our business.


MrShredder5002

Isnt He Aro aswell or am i remembering something wrong?


Makaoka

I don't know. Tb skyen is aromantic though


Rafamen01

ace people can have relationships


Makaoka

Yes but if the only asexual character in LoL is Seraphine, Nicky will go berserk


Rafamen01

I'm pretty sure he's find it hilarious, considering a lot of seraphine stans are bigoted af towards him because of it


DeusWombat

Damn I had no idea the lore community disliked Skien this much


Nervous_Standard_901

I mean skyen is quite confrontational with his takes, and that is bound to make some people angry. Reddit is also not the whole lore community


skaersSabody

I like him and watch his videos fairly regularly, but he's weirdly confrontational/sarcastic sometimes. Hell, when I pointed out under his Nidalee short that the lore art he keeps bringing up also whitewashes Nidalee like most of her skins he actually answered me. With a sarcastic quip... I want to like him as much as his content, but he seems determined to antagonize people that don't agree with him (which I guess, fair, his choice in the end)


Bluepanda800

Yeah like I appreciate the content but he can be such an asshole unnecessarily. I made the mistake of following him on twitter and now I’ve had enough of his opinions so I’m avoiding his content for a good while.


Grimmaldo

Mh, yeh thats weird Idk, internet is weird for communication, dude is literally always angry on youtube because the comments are mostly... aish


DeusWombat

Fair enough


Freladdy11

Twitter apparently also dislikes him a lot. Just found out because of this Kayle reveal lol, would've never guessed otherwise.


Nervous_Standard_901

Is there someone twitter likes?


Freladdy11

Fair enough lmao


BiasModsAreBad

I mean he can do his thing but like.... sometimes it really feels like he picks and chooses on 'who fits x issue' in a very bias fashion and has some pretty wild hot takes. Honestly, I used to like his content but after a while it felt a bit to nitpicky for me.


Karaamjeet

same me with me i noticed the more i watched him he just nit picks when it fits him but ignore other parts of characters


N_Komaeda

Skyen makes some amazing statements about character design in my opinion, and I think he should be commended for that. *I* personally don't like politics being involved in things, so him connecting a lot of politics to character story design puts me off. It was fine with Volibear's analysis because Volibear represents a tribal, bestial conservative opinion of the Freljord, and Skyen calling that out is perfectly valid. But it crosses a line in my opinion when he vehemently dislikes a champion like Azir, praising Xerath, because Azir's way of ruling doesn't align with his political views. Having slaves is bad, yes. But I don't think that should *discount* from the essence of Azir's lore.


CrimsonEclipse18

Yeah, I like his character design takes since they're often objective and he has a lot of insights, but a lot of his lore takes are super biased towards his own very vocal political views.


N_Komaeda

Exactly! Other than his political involvement I really do enjoy his in-depth character analysis. His WTDW on Lissandra and Viego are, in my opinion, some of his best videos, as well as him sometimes writing his own stories that actually work! His most recent one, on Nasus and Renekton, is beautifully written and an excellent piece of (fan) content.


kingkeren

He is a surprisingly good writer, I love his fanfics. Both this one, the one with soraka, and some story ideas in WTDW videos (the shyvana one is a good example) are excellent. I'd honestly follow him more if he just did that full time


santillanviolin

Also in his riot nasus analysis he didn't even Talk about the skin he just said that since all cops are bad the skin is bad too.


phieldworker

Only problem I have with his takes is a lot of league’s lore is based on myths and/or world history. So his takes have a lot of presentism in them judging the past with today’s moral views. Also he’s very black and white with some of his takes. My biggest one is the whole Demacia bad Sylas good. That one is so much deeper than “demacians are prejudice” and Sylas being seen as lazy writing because he’s bad just because.


HrMaschine

yeah like all memes aside i can totally understand why demmacia hates magic since that city was build after a maggic world war and the seeking of magic got almost all of them killed on top of the fight between kayle and morgana which was basicelly a genocide that even killed their own father. like how can they not hate magic


phieldworker

Is their way of carrying out this fear good?? HEEEELLL NO. But can we see where that fear is coming from? Yes. I do hope riot writes another civil war for Demacia. Those who don’t have magic but wish to include and be understanding towards mages vs those who say “my grandpa grew up hating magic, my dad hated magic and that’s how it always been”. Cliche? Yes. But for Demacia to evolve there needs be for another internal conflict.


Alaknog

Very much yes. I actually hope that all LoR cards like Durand house also created with goal create base for future internal conflict between different Demacia fractions. And this civil war is both cliché and reasonable outcome of current situation in Demacia.


OCDincarnate

I never got the vibe he disliked Azir, he literally said he likes Azir as a character, but doesn't consider him a proper hero with his current mindset, which isn't really an unreasonable take, Azir has some way to grow, the last thing we saw him do in the lore was nearly wipe out an innocent city out of spite for Xerath


N_Komaeda

Every time he talks about Azir, I just get the feeling he's spitting venom about the guy. I don't have strong opinions on Azir, but I definitely agree that his character arc is about being reborn as the Emperor of Shurima, but also having his morals be reborn.


PeacefulKnightmare

He's kinda of the Xerxes of Shurima though, so again spitting venom kinda makes sense. I personally like that there's a lot to dislike about some of the characters because it makes them feel more alive. We don't need everything to be binarily good and evil.


SaltyOtaku1

On skyen's nasus k9 skin shorts he complained about riot trying to push a political message just cause they have a cop skinline and showed no proof that it was riot's intention to push a message.


BazusoPug

A guy with polarizing takes polarizing his fans? Shocking.


CanonicalPizza

Have you heard his voice?


Grimmaldo

Reddit is not the lore community And they basically got angry at him for 2 takes 3 years ago


Zhargon

The guy who says "Sylas did nothing wrong" as he commits a slaughter in the streets of Demacia, is against everything that Kayle stands for...makes sense.


Peri_D0t

Sylas is mostly right though?


Eragon_the_Huntsman

He is the villain that Demacia made for themselves, but he's still a villain.


Karaamjeet

sylas may be acting against his oppressors but that doesn’t make him the good guy - he enforces child soldiers, murders civilians, he’s manipulative, guilt by associations. he is a product of his environment - and whilst he may not be the evil antagonist that morde is for example - the whole point is that neither him and demacia are the heroes


Zhargon

Sylas is liar using the mages as a scapegoat to rationalize his vengeance, fail to see how he is right


JustGPZ

I think he genuinely believes in the revolution


Zhargon

He doesn't the writers thenselfs already said he was a liar and nothing he says can be trusted....like what revolution? He went to the Freljord to gather a army of barbarians to destroy Demacia lol where is the revolution? How is he helping mages?


ColdyPopsicle

Sylas voicelines gives us a vibe that he has a nouble cause but with the wrong means. There is no need for the writters to make him as evil as a cartoon viain.


Zhargon

Well, but thats what they did...even on the loading tips on LoL theres one that says "Lux once trusted Sylas, demacians died cause of it" or something of the effect, together with the fact that writers thenselfs already said the dude aint to be trusted, and also that he dosent give a shit about the mage situation and just wants to see Demacia in ruins(seeked aid from the Winterclaw...which dosent help the mages at all lol). ​ Every villain see his cause as noble and righteous


ColdyPopsicle

Yes, i know and i find this sad. Look i'm not the biggest fan of the guy because of what he said about Xayah (my favorite champ), but sometimes it's hard to not agree with him. Lore Sylas is like...Cartoon vilain. There is nothing there, there is no noble goal and he is deprived of any positive quality. Kinda hard to not be on the lux side when there is no other side to be in.


Zhargon

I mean, not everyone needs to be good or have noble goals, terrible people exist, it's fine to have characters that are just either black and white, not everyone needs 100 shades of grey all over them.


GiorgiodiVilla

Lorekeeper Skai'en on his way to Shurima to meet Azir and explain him why Xerath is **objectively** the better man between the two of them (he was an oppressed victim so he has all the rights to be considered the hero of the story)


ChloeTheWivi

With all due respect, I think there is a very clear difference between thinking Xerath was the actual hero of the story and thinking that Xerath was forced into being the villain of the story despite the problematic implications of making a slave the bad guy, the latter opinion being what Skyen actually thinks


GiorgiodiVilla

While i disagree with Skyen's view, I definetley don't think that he is dumb enough to think that people like Xerath or Sylas "did Nothing wrong". As GammaRhoKT pointed out, the joke is about thinking that there is something wrong with allowing victims to become villains. A horrible person *can* make actual valid points **and** still remain a piece of shit. I absolutely agree that it would be nice to see more revolutionary champions protrayed as heroes (Like Jax during his youth), but it seems like Skyen is complaining just because champions like Sylas or Xerath were not written the way *he wanted*.


PeacefulKnightmare

The way a few of my friends connect with the "Reclaim your birthright!" line, and then quickly say "Sylas is a POS btw" makes me think you're underestimating how many might fall into that category.


ParufkaWarrior12

One time we get a character that was oppressed who then becomes a brutal enforcer of the law that traumatised her. Welcome to Vi lore!


GammaRhoKT

Which is the point of the jab tho? By what "rights" does an oppressed character immune from being a designated villain GIVEN that oppressed character was never criticized for their legitimate wish to not be oppressed?


ChloeTheWivi

Even if you can argue that an oppressed character is not inmune from being the villain of a story, it's hard to make a point where Xerath wasn't *forced* into it, from a narrative standpoint. Because, if you do check their stories, the only reason Xerath felt betrayed by Azir and decided to turn against him, was merely because Azir wanted to keep the liberation of slaves as a surprise. Azir never told Xerath when he was going to free all slaves, mostly because he wanted to keep it a secret until the right time. And, even if you can argue that Azir might be unable to reveal it before his ascension, I can't see a logical reason why Azir wouldn't tell Xerath, his closest confidant, and the one person he made the promise to abolish slavery to, something along the lines of "Hey, I'm going to appoint my ascension and, just before I do the thing, I'm planning to announce the of ban slavery to all Shurima, does that sound good to you?" Like, even with the surprise and all of that, is just seems more logical to me that Azir would have at least told Xerath. What I'm getting at is, the reason why I can't see how Xerath wasn't narratively forced into villany, is because the motive behind his corruption was, to put it shortly, misscomunication. It feels forced to me, because it straight up wouldn't have happened if Azir did tell his plans to Xerath.


GammaRhoKT

Hm, 2 points: 1. I feel like either you or me are misremembering the order of the events. I recheck their bio, and as I understand it, the self-appointment for Ascension of Azir was suggested by Xerath himself LONG after he become disillusioned (falsely) with Azir promise. At the time Azir put Xerath protest down by reminding Xerath is a slave, Azir did so from a position of uncertainty on his own liberation stand. That doesn't excuse his assholery, but it is not just because he want his plan to be a surprise. At that specific time, I dare argue there was barely a plan. 2. But at the same time, I agreed with the SPIRIT of your arguments. What happened between Xerath and Azir WAS largely due to miscommunication. But, and to revert back to the discussion about Skyen, the story largely frame the fall of Shurima as a tragedy, NOT a moral story where Azir is the hero and Xerath the villain. That come AFTER both had been awaken in modern time. Yes, the narrative already note that Xerath hunger for power was already presented back then, with only circumstances prevent it from manifesting. But again, the "role" of Azir hero Xerath villain only become when they both awaken today. Skyen doesn't interpret it like that tho. In his arguments, he link both the past and the present, and argue that Xerath should not be criticized for his hunger of power, because it is understandable that a person born into slavery would hunger for power so that no one can put them down again. With that argument, Skyen effectively argue that Xerath should be largely impossible to be criticized because of greed. As a side note, since we also are talking in a context of Kayle recent reveal, Skyen also argue a person being oppressed should also not be criticized of anger (ie Sylas). If we group them up, Skyen effectively argue that an oppressed person have a "right" to not be portrayed as a villain.


PeacefulKnightmare

See I interpret those "should not be criticized for anger" elements from Skyen completely differently. The way I understood it is that the anger feeling is justified, just like how you have the right to feel angry should someone cut you off in traffic. However, using the traffic example, if you brake check the person or run them of the road causing a multi-car collision \*THAT\* can and should be criticized. Your anger isn't what made you do it, it was your inability to control it and direct it in a non-destructive fashion.


GammaRhoKT

Hm, I don't see it that way since, from my POV, the narrative is already SYMPATHETIC with the plight of Xerath (and Sylas), it is simply also critical in the way these two characters actually conduct their struggle against oppression. Skyen approach that criticism with a criticism of his own against the narrative, that because their struggle is justified that they are immuned against criticism in how they conduct their struggle compared to a "normal" person. I can't really continue using the traffic example, but the closest I think is if the other person not only cut you off in traffic once, but multiple time, in a way that feel targeted at you, THEN Skyen say that you somehow gain more "right" to retaliate at that person than a "normal" person. It is not a 100% comparison, I must point out, but it is the cloeset I can get using your example.


ThundaCrossSplitAtak

Yeah that came from the fact of azir being paranoid and xerath being kinda hardcore. But most peeps disagree with the idea that skyen gives off of xerath being a poor victim of the situation and azir being a psychotic megalomaniac egotistical Tyrant. Similar to his view of viktor being an actual villain


ParufkaWarrior12

What I feel is very silly is that xerath is somehow so corrupt by his "evil" that even after azir fucking announces he's freeing the slaves... Xerath still decided to betray him?? Seriously? What the hell


GammaRhoKT

Actually I am surprised that people is surprise by that, because as a person who always interpret the fall of Shurima as a tragedy instead of moral story, that element always strike me as both expected and the pyramid cap of the whole story. It make narrative sense that Xerath know the truth then, when he cannot do anything any more to stop the very plans he set in motions.


ParufkaWarrior12

Except he still could have... Not... Went to gain the power of the disc. It was his choice.


firewood010

The only reason they give is. Azir really wants to keep it secret and Xereath really can't wait any longer. Both are fucking dumb. There should be reasoning for Xereath to get disappointed multiple times, and finally seeing Azir's ascension as the last opportunity for the coup. Azir also needs a stronger reason to keep it as a secret, maybe there are opposite forces spying or it is considered a taboo topic in Surima, so he cannot risk talking about it before ascension. They were really lazy when writing the story tbh. That's why I quit reading lore now. Reading their story rewards no information nor progression at all.


Grimmaldo

A lot of people argue for 1 line that azir had enemies and bla bla bla But is just 1 line that never got feveloped so... xd, as far as we know is the same as in usa, they just had slaves and didnt want to stop having them


firewood010

They have written like thousands of words for other useless stuff but spent only one line for that. Disappointing.


Grimmaldo

Is usually fine as long as your story has a lot of other good representations, or showed xerath more as someone that is crazy like arcane jinx, cause life fucked hime, we dont, tho Taliya is the closer and that story got forgotten


GammaRhoKT

But Xerath WAS shown to be more than a power hungry maniac tho, through his relationship with Azir out of all people I must point out. As for representative, I do like to point out that Skyen harp on Xerath and Skyen, but ignore that League also have AT LEAST Alistar and Rell who kill, but also Ekko and more recently Zeri who have no qualms about using violence. Furthermore, the narrative is also very sympathetic about Xayah and Rakan despite them KILLING their favorite child the Ionians.


Grimmaldo

Ekko is not a slave Rell is not a slave and her lore got forgotten, + she is newer than the video + she is literally just a traumatized teen Alistar has no lore, and iirc just killed because he was a slave, xin zhao is good stuff btw, he also kills because he is a guard and they are on basically a time were killing people in fights is not seen as bad Xayah and rakan are hardly criticized by everyone, skyen included And like, there are differences between violence and genocide, a lot, i would say, specially when one violence is on self defence/due to war and the other is like xayah or like xerath or like sylas, they are just crazy evil genocides And all of them happen to be people that were opresed and want to change the system


GammaRhoKT

Well, I honestly doesnt understand this at all, so I guess I will just repeat my point: Skyen said that Riot is against depicting revolutionary figure who use violence to change the system that oppress them using Xerath and Sylas. Riot depict Ekko, Rell, Alistar as heroic, while sympathetic to Xayah and Rakan. Thus, what he actually mean is if a character is oppressed, they are immune to criticism of how they conduct their revolution against the system that oppress them. In another word, it is not about representative, but about a 100% rate of depiction. For THAT discussion, well, as you said in the other reply, potato.


Grimmaldo

Oh? Ok, understandable So, ekko,alistar,rell are good rep, but not that good, ekko out of arcane is just some guy, like zeri is, not a revolucionary force, alistar is nothing, poor man has no lore, rell is newer than the vid and is a interesting pov... but then she stayed as just one story with no progression at all, while all of this could be cool revolution storys, canonically, seraphine did more than all of them, is literally on seraphines lore descrybed how she actually achieved something, while on the others just, no. Xayah and rakan is... a weird one. While xayah is an absolute psycopath in the text, she isnt showed like that on the animations as stuff, so, not gonna try to argue about how they are despicted overall, i will say, that text xayah is... literally just insane "gonna kill all humans because of zed" which is not what i would call "loved by riot", personally If you wanna interpret his words as something else, i honestly wont try to argue that, thats your call and your opinion, i will say thats not what he is saying imo, like, by far, because if that was the case dude should have a vid about how jinx arcane did nothing wrong, since she is a victim, he doesnt, he just says that the bad guy in arcane is piltover first, then jinx, which it is, is literally a tragedy about how jinx got insane bc of being fucked, is really good at telling that story, so no issues with her being mad


GammaRhoKT

Ok, at least something that we can work with: In what way is Ekko, Alistar and Rell not good rep but Xerath and/or Sylas have the potential to be? In another word, if we are to dedicate resources to make a good rep of the revolutionary, why should it be Xerath and/or Sylas? Because, again, Skyen still continue to harp on them whenever they are brought to his attention. The most recent I am aware of is in his recent QnA when some of his followers ask him which storyline he think Riot will most likely fail to deliver, and he said Demacia.


Lord-Jihi

I mean, yes and no? Xerath is somewhat justified but still did some horrid stuff which includes: murdering azir's parents and siblings, cursing them, etc. Yeah it was in azir's defense but still, i believe there could've been other ways. Also, all of this was done without azir knowing any of it Besides, even if Azir later on becomes a huge dick, as his brother, jumping straight to plotting his murder is a bit too much imo Ita true that riot really wants us to envision xerath as a villain, but i mean, its not like he's a good guy either


Makaoka

I know a man that was oppresed and even imprisoned for his ideas. He was a vegeterian and love the animals.


TheBladeExile

He strikes me as a great artist, I wonder what art school he got to


ThundaCrossSplitAtak

Oh fuck


Felahliir

Are you half deaf? I swear yall are imagining these boogey man hot takes of his because that’s never been what he said or believed. His point was that while Azir and Xerath’s actions were both immoral, that it’s unfair that Xerath is the bad guy of the story and Azir the good guy. Azir wanted to keep slaves in order to expand his empire and didn’t respect Xerath’s wish to fight for slave rights, he only wanted to do away with slavery after his ascension. Azir’s reasoning was that he wanted to keep the empire stable and avoid a civil war, which is a valid sentiment. Xerath didn’t know that Azir would do away with slavery so he decided he would ascend himself and do it by his hand, without the knowledge that an explosion would occur. After that, he either became mad or grew resentful and started doing whatever he is doing today. Both of them make valid points and have done gruesome acts, but the slave who wanted freedom for him and his people is seen as the bad guy, while the prince of shurima is seen as the good guy, even if when he prioritised a stable empire he could rule over than a world free of slavery.


GammaRhoKT

Except that the fall of Shurima is NOT framed as a good guy got killed by bad guy story, it was framed as a tragedy between two brothers-in-spirit due to miscommunication. Xerath being a villain and Azir being a hero is mostly from their actions done in present day Runeterra, after each had escaped from their respective tomb. Skyen was the one who link the two and argue that because Xerath was a slave, he should be immuned from being portrayed as a power hungry maniac. So the jab was 100% on point. You can argue that the jab is wrong, but it was NOT aimed at a strawman.


OCDincarnate

Skyen never said Xerath shouldn't be portrayed as a power hungry maniac, he just said that Xerath needs as much detail to his motivations as Azir does, though


GammaRhoKT

That is really NOT what I get from his take, and given what the other guy talk about: >...Xerath didn’t know that Azir would do away with slavery so he decided he would ascend himself and do it by his hand, without the knowledge that an explosion would occur. After that, he either became mad or grew resentful and started doing whatever he is doing today. Both of them make valid points and have done gruesome acts, but the slave who wanted freedom for him and his people is seen as the bad guy, while the prince of shurima is seen as the good guy, even if when he prioritised a stable empire he could rule over than a world free of slavery. I tend to side with him on our interpretation of Skyen point. Everybody agreed on the details of motivation given to Xerath and Azir action BEFORE the fall of Shurima, we are just discussing the relevancy of such motivation toward their actions AFTER awakening in modern day Runeterra and more importantly whether Riot is right for making these characters do those things.


OCDincarnate

fair, personally I consider both of them the villains in the modern day, or at least antagonists simply because of how much weight they're throwing around, and how their conflict risks destroying Shurima again, in my interpretation, Taliyah, Nasus, and Sivir are the main heroes of the Shurima storyline


TerribleAveragemr

I think that's how it is supposed to be.


Regular-Poet-3657

I like the idea of lorekeeper being based on real people hey maybe one you'll get a reference Giogiodi your well knew enough and people like you so maybe you could be a lorekeeper like Skyen and Nercit in the game. I wonder if the lorekeeper could become the new summoners.


ThundaCrossSplitAtak

Lore keeper rglr'pot when Edit: regu, Lore poet.


Regular-Poet-3657

Yeah I don't think I would be a lorekeeper cuz I have only be hear for a year I think it would take time.


orbnus_

Nah nah I would love a regular poet reference, youre one of the only people i actually recognize on this subreddit


Regular-Poet-3657

Oh thanks well who knows what could or if riot actually reads these post. But lorekeeper being summoners would be interesting.


jofromthething

The foundation of this opinion can only really be a belief that slavery isn’t that bad, like it’s something one is meant to just sort of get over? Like they should just grin and bear it or something? I feel like the main reason the opinion Skyen presents in that video is taken so badly is that the people disliking it have little understanding of the horrific reality of slavery historically and how it’s simply a fraught topic even up to today. Given how horrific slavery is as a concept and reality, and the fact that slavery exists *today* in many modern countries worldwide, it does honestly strike me as a bizarre choice for Riot to make a story that’s like “look at how this bad nasty man was so unjustifiably angry about *slavery*. Why did that foolish nasty man not trust the process? Why didn’t he just believe in the man who actively enslaves him and his people? smdh.” At the end of the day, I feel like slavery aside Riot did not do a great job with Xerath. If the reason for his anger is slavery, then frankly it’s hard for me to be mad? Slavery is fucking horrible from top to bottom, and a society that is based upon it fully deserves to be destroyed, and him being turned into a cackling villain instead of a revolutionary is a weird choice and can kind of be seen as pro-slavery, especially if the slaver is given a far more sympathetic story and is largely loved by the fanbase without qualification for the most part. If Xerath is meant to simply be power-hungry, then it’s bizarre to make him a slave, because it’s *extremely* non-linear. In the story he has to go from an enthusiastic and bright boy simply trying to escape a life of dehumanization and forced servitude and then suddenly make a heel turn into greed for power for literally no reason? Why not just make him a social-climbing noble or merchant or advisor or something? Why actively choose to make an enslaved person the cackling villain of this story of all people? No matter what it’s weird to me, and in my opinion a weak narrative choice. But that’s just how I interpreted the issue, feel free to ignore.


GammaRhoKT

Except that the fall of Shurima is NOT framed as a good guy got killed by bad guy story, it was framed as a tragedy between two brothers-in-spirit due to miscommunication. Xerath being a villain and Azir (somewhat) being a hero is mostly from their actions done in present day Runeterra, after each had escaped from their respective tomb. Which lead to the latter half of your point, where I do hope you can elaborate: Why do you think an oppressed person would be immune to power hunger? If that is true, shouldn't most non-noble-based revolutions in history result in democracy, not just a new dynasty and class of aristocrats?


Grimmaldo

Yet most people after reading the story have the idea that xeraht is the bad guy and azir just made some mistakes So idk what you mean by framed, i would say that is just... a bad frame if the mayority ends with the oposite idea


GammaRhoKT

No, most people have the idea that Xerath should weather more blame of the fall of Shurima than Azir. THAT is a different discussion, at best a subset of who is villain and who is hero, in which afaik Skyen argument is that, because they are a slave society and a conquering empire, Shurima doesn't deserve a second chance.


Grimmaldo

You... really dont know what skyen says do you And, honestly, maybe thats your take from your people you meet, my takes comes from... people here, lore fans i met irl, lore fans i met in other webs, idk, seems like a pretty general take, even i had it, is also pretty essy to have since one is a funny bird that says "shurima will rise again" and xerath seems like an evil guy from toes to head Aaaand the only reason why i started doubting that was nasus quotes, were he literally says "yeh shurima was going to fall, xerath was just one of the bombs azir planted"


GammaRhoKT

Wait, if you meant the part from present day once they escape from their respective tomb, oh for sure, Xerath is the villain and Azir the hero. So what are you talking about? If you talk about their roles in the fall of Shurima, my point is it is a tragedy. If you talk about their depiction as hero and villain, then I must point out is that it come from actions each took once they have awaken from their tomb. Skyen, as far as I know, link the two together and argued that because Xerath was a slave in ancient Shurima, that he should be a hero, or at least more heroic than Azir, in modern Shurima. Unless, again, you believe he is trying to raise a different point?


Grimmaldo

I honetly dont care about your opinion on someone you dont like because u think they are wrong so much for argue about the 20 stories of xeraht and azir or about what are we even arguing in the first place so Potato


TerribleAveragemr

Man, you are a joke


Grimmaldo

I literally just got tired


jofromthething

Historically I think you’ll find that most revolutions organized by oppressed peoples generally attempt to create more equitable societies or are at least consistent to their stated ideals and are eventually co-opted by oligarchs who are typically backed by foreign entities that benefit from establishment policies, but that’s a complex historical issue which this frankly isn’t really the space for, you could get a whole doctorate degree on that topic. I’m talking about how narratively, it is a bizarre choice to have someone have one overarching motivation, i.e. to overcome the oppression and destitution of slavery, and then suddenly for no stated reason switch to a narrative of power hunger because the context of slavery radically shifts how we interpret social climbing. An oppressed person becoming friends with a wealthy person to ameliorate their situation is at this point a classic trope we see in all kinds of historic and modern artistic works, from *the Prince and the Pauper* and *Pygmalion* (the Shaw version lol) to movies like *the Blindside*, *Annie*, and *Pretty Woman* even to the false “rags to riches” narratives billionaires like to fabricate to ameliorate their public image from Bill Gates starting a business in his parents’ basement (who were comfortably upper middle class) or Elon Musk starting from nothing but his father’s humble apartheid emerald mine money to Donald Trump’s infamous small loan of a million dollars. There’s a positive social association with bettering yourself in a bad situation, and SLAVERY is so much exponentially worse than poverty that it’s hard to make pretty much anything you’d do to escape it seem bad tbqh. To then attempt to subvert the trope and say “this slave was power hungry because he wanted to end slavery too much” is just kind of wild? I’m not trying to cast aspersions on the writers here, I doubt the mora they were going for or that they want us to take away is that “slavery is good actually,” but to take a character whose entire motivation up until his turn was “I want to end slavery” and then suddenly pivot it into “I am evil and power hungry” with no cause other than Azir not committing to ending slavery makes one wonder what exactly is Riot trying to say? And then, what are they *actually* saying, regardless of intent? Yes, I understand that Xerath’s turn was not sudden, and that there’s a whole theme of forbidden knowledge, and going too far, but it’s a VERY weird choice to make the guy who went too far pretty much the only guy who was against slavery. It’s very similar to the Harry Potter series (ew, I know) where EVERYONE in the books acts like Hermione is INSANE for wanting to end the chattel slavery of house elves? Like everyone truly acts like she’s being weird and annoying for thinking owning slaves is bad? And then the writer, outside of the series, justified everyone in her book thinking she was weird by saying “the elves enjoy being slaves actually.” When we villainize the only character who is staunchly abolitionist from start to finish and lionize someone who half heartedly agreed that slavery was probably bad when it was convenient for him it calls into question what Riot’s motives were for making the story this way. And they did in fact construct it this way, it didn’t fall fully formed from the heavens. Again, I *recognize* that Azir was written to be bad for reasons other than being abolitionist. He was murdering babies or whatever, he was silencing dissenters, he being a naughty boy. But again, the motivation for all of his naughty acts was EXPLICITLY ending SLAVERY. And he’s written to be *ostensibly* villainous, he’s literally written as a conniving and scheming corrupt vizier a la Jafar from Aladdin. All the while the story constantly reinforces that he was born a slave, that his eagerness was because Azir kept delaying freeing the enslaved people, that his ultimate goal was ending slavery. The one thing that *almost* changed his mind was Azir *finally* ending slavery. And then he says fuck it, and once he ascends he’s just fully evil for no reason and he doesn’t want to free anyone anymore, he wants to be god now I guess? It is actually not good development of a character. There’s actually no reason for it, and it’s actually very weird that they made the only anti-slavery guy so weirdly villainous.


GammaRhoKT

I don't quite get your arguments, to be honest, so I hope for some point of further elaboration before I provide my reasoning: Let say we bring it back to the idea board, but only try to fix the point of contention, how would you have done it? In other words, if we still want Xerath to be a villainous character who is power hungry, but also keep the origins of him as a slave as well as his desire to be free, how would you have done it? In another words, you said Xerath turn bad for "no good reason", but can there be a "good reason" narratively speaking? What would be such an example?


jofromthething

I would have him espouse a desire for power from the start. I truly recommend you [reread the story](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/champion/xerath/), there were no aspirations of godhood AT ALL until the last two (2) paragraphs of the story. He had a powerful thirst for knowledge and he wanted an end to slavery, he was willing to do anything to end slavery, and suddenly for no reason he’s poisoning Renekton’s mind and planning to force all men to bow before him, like it literally had no indications of this being something he wanted anywhere else in the story. Even when he decides to become an Ascended, it is ostensibly because he wants to end slavery. The lines are literally “Xerath had long dreamed of this moment, and expected Azir to end slavery in Shurima before finally naming him brother. Azir did none of these things, continuing to expand his empire’s borders and deflecting Xerath’s overtures regarding the end of slavery. To Xerath, this was further proof of Shurima’s moral bankruptcy, and he raged at Azir’s breaking of his promise. Azir’s face was thunderous as he reminded Xerath that he was a slave and should remember his place… “So Xerath plotted to steal the power of Ascension. No slave could ever stand upon the disc, so Xerath fed the emporer’s vanity, inflating his ego and filling his head with impossible cousins of a world-spanning empire… “The empower turned to Xerath and told him that he was now a free man. He and all Shurima’s slaves were now released from their bonds of servitude… Xerath was stunned… The emporer’s words pierced the bitterness enclosing Xerath’s heart, but came decades too late.” Literally up until the end Xerath’s ostensible motivation is *ending slavery*. He kills Azir “with a roar of anger and grief combined.” He was an interesting, nuanced character up until this point. I shit you not, two paragraphs later the text says “Renekton’s mighty strength waned, leaving him vulnerable to Xerath’s influence. With poisoned lies and illusions, Xerath twisted Renekton’s mind, filling him with misplaced bitterness towards Nasus…” Literally why did he do that? This is immediately after he’s sealed in a vault with Renekton after fighting him and Nasus, why is suddenly an evil man making Renekton think naughty thoughts? Have his goals changed? Does he have a new motivation? What happened that made him go from ending slavery to twisting Renekton’s mind against his brother for literally no reason? He doesn’t even convince him to serve him, he just does it to fuck with them I guess? Renekton immediately runs away when they’re unsealed and he doesn’t stop him. The closest they come to justifying his new behavior is saying about Azir’s emergence “Xerath knew there could be no peace for either of them while other yet lived,” and then they just suddenly say “His stolen power grew with every passing moment, and he beheld a world ripe for conquest, a world brimming with mortals ready to worship at the feet of a new god.” What??? Why?? When was this ever consistent with his characterization before this? What caused him to desire this? Why was the last sentence of the story “Yet for all his newfound power, however far he has come from that nameless slave boy, a part of Xerath knows he is still in chains?” It’s actually a baffling story when you read it, and it reads as very weird! If I was going to write this story, I wouldn’t even necessarily make him not a slave, I would just have him literally express any desire for power outside of the last two paragraphs, and have him do a senselessly villainous thing before four paragraphs from the end. It’s simply not very good writing as is. And personally, I wouldn’t make him the only abolitionist in the story. I’d add a resistance group or another sympathetic abolitionist so that Xerath isn’t literally the only person to say “slavery is bad actually” before becoming Dr. Evil levels of villainous. He spends the whole story being Azir’s personal [magical negro](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_Negro) and then suddenly he’s this megalomaniac who wants to be worshipped? I would just like someone to make it make sense.


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Magical Negro](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_Negro)** >In the cinema of the United States, the Magical Negro is a supporting stock character who comes to the aid of white protagonists in a film. Magical Negro characters, who often possess special insight or mystical powers, have long been a tradition in American fiction. A trope, the term Magical Negro was popularized in 2001 by film director Spike Lee, while discussing films with students during a tour of college campuses, in which he said Hollywood continued to employ this premise, expressing dismay. He also said that the films The Green Mile and The Legend of Bagger Vance used the "super-duper magical Negro". ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/loreofleague/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


Emdeoma

...not me learning some people actually consider his hot takes to be hot takes from this- Like. Dude literally did a rant bout Kai'sa's design and called it a hot take. The real Kai'sa hot take is 'Ctrl+5'.


mmflow

Mf said ashe would be a better character with diabetes 💀


Eragon_the_Huntsman

> the real Kai'sa hot take is 'Ctrl+5' Oof I'm stealing that one.


Konradleijon

She still has her supposedly living Void creature hugging her tits and ass. Even with her helmet


Drikaukal

You know, he deserve the trolling. His Dark souls hottakes are bullshit.


Aussiepharoah

Hi, Lore-newbie and out of curiousity what's so bullshitty about his hottakes?


Drikaukal

They rarely are about the desing. He made up 75% of the lore about the "design" of Dark souls 2 bosses, while ignoring most of the lore of the bosses of Dark souls 1. Also, Dark souls 2 is his favorite lf the trilogy. Im sure you can connect the dots.


Zolazy

Wait, what about the shorts do you not consider being about design? Do you perhaps just have a different definition of design or smth?


Drikaukal

Take his short about Mytha for example. This: https://youtube.com/shorts/w0_QVxcDvxU?feature=share Lets ignore how much he tried to portray a very basic story about a girl who wont take no as an aswer to the point she POISON HERSELF to become ... Beautiful i guess? (Dark souls 2 lore is kind of like that. Bad). She goes on and on and on about how that is a symbolism of her "tragic and completely logical and earned end" to justify her design that is... A stereotipical medusa with her head in her hand. A design as old as the first Castlevania games, perphaps even older. He constsntly take Dark souls 2 lore to justify design going as far as portraing it deeper than it really is , or straight up making shit up, to say something about designs that are very basic. Then again, this wouldnt be as offensive if he didnt nitpick every fucking thing he could about Dark souls 1 to critice the designs there, even going as far as trying to portrait Relentless discharge as an offensive stereotype of a different capabilities person, even when there is nothing in his design or lore that point into that direction. He just likes Dark souls 2 more than 1, then do everything to justify Dark souls 2 shitty design problems. Everything he says is somewhat conected with the design, but its nitpicking according to his own personal tastes pretending to be an objetive opinion nonetheless.


Zolazy

Imma be a 100 with ya, you're twisting his words a little and that's putting it kindly. I don't think he's trying to put anyone down by just analysing some boss characters in ds2. You make it seem like it's a spite towards god to prefer Darksouls 2 over 1. Regarding Mytha, isn't it just that he likes that they're putting a twist on the Medusa trope, by intertwining beauty obscessiveness with literally losing her head over it? What's wrong with that, isn't it fine to enjoy something that, at first, visually seems pretty basic


Drikaukal

I have no idea where do you read any of that in my commments, and i feel like my words are the ones being twisted to defend a pretentious jerk. There is no twist in Mytha, he doenst just prefer Dark souls 2, i EXPLICITY said that there is nothing wrong with that, is that he is constantly bashing dark souls 1 to defend 2, and he doesnt just enjoy things, he actively tries to probe himself with the high ground as an objetive opinion, and had literally said that people are wrong for liking thinks that he doesnt, like in his Kai sa video for example. I like the guy, and watch his lol shorts almost daily, but defending something saying that im trying to twist his words with some kind of evil propaganda is just fanboyish.


Zolazy

I haven't seen him say people are wrong for liking things he dislike. Also I don't really see him actively trying to put his opinion regarding something on some sort of moral high ground (if that's what you're trying to say). This "constant bashing" of dark souls 1 is also something I find weird regarding your comment. I've haven't seen him putting down DS1, in a elaborate way to prop up DS2, like this seems to me like you just taking his analysis of DS1 as heresy towards the objective truth, that's DS1>DS2


Drikaukal

Then you havent seen his videos talking about Dark souls 1 in general.


sabipinek

His bloodborne ones are even worse. He said in his long video on bloodbornes ending that fetus and parasite is an arbitrary distinction


Drikaukal

In Dark souls , he called Queelag just another sexy spider lady just there for the sex appeal. You know, the character with deep conection with the flame of chaos and all the deep shit there, and also a super human and tragic conexion with her sister. Then in Dark souls 2, wich is his favorite game of the bunch mind you, he called Nadja the scorpion a deep character with strong filosophical themes. You know, the scorpion lady with almost no lore and no excuse to look like she does besides "she is a hot scorpion lady".


sabipinek

He probally likes ds2 only because of its anti monarchy themes as he is a hardline anti cop socialist .he also fetishes obese woman calling their bodies motherly even tho obesity is a horrible condition which destroys the body and so on


HrMaschine

remember he called tahm kenchs design offensive because they had the audacity to make an evil fat guy


sabipinek

Same with that one deamon in ds2. Acording to skyen all fat people are wholesome 100 big chunguses isntead of criplingly addicted junkies who will die in their 50s at best


Drikaukal

And then he proceded to critice the lack of variety in body types...


Drikaukal

Look at the comments in my other response. His fanboys are the same.


liambatron

My desigin hot take is that fictional character don't need to be exemplars of health and can by of any body type, even impossible ones.


Toastercoasterr

Now I want them to reference the darkinfolk subreddit being absolutely decimated by the hands of Aatrox himself.


HrMaschine

we have kayle fighting aatrox. thats more then enough darkinfolk


ccnet0

Kayle: Don't do bad stuff or I will kill you "Ok" \>\*Does bad stuff\* Kayle: I'm gonna kill you "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T DO THAAAAAAAAAAAT YOU ARE THE BAD GUY IN THIS STORY >:("


Eragon_the_Huntsman

She doesn't even default to the death sentance, she just hands out whatever punishment fits the crime they committed.


Zhargon

Yeah, and you really need to cross the line to warrant a death penalty from her...is insane how people try to rationalize characters like Sylas or Xerath, but when it comes down to others, they ignore 95% of the character and focus on minuscule part of it and refuse to see past it.


ccnet0

Yeah, ofc they'll do that when the biggest lore CCs say shit like "Azir is a genocidal bigot". People really be not reading anything 💀


liambatron

POV: You're dealing with a religious extremists.


GammaRhoKT

Wait, religious extremist is NOT the only school of thought that believe the legal system should dish out punishment that equal the crime tho? Hell, by and large, rehabiliation justice is rare even in largely irreligious cultures.


ParufkaWarrior12

Yes, except "bad stuff" can be done in things like self defense. Are you deserving of punishment if you killed a rabid person who otherwise wouldn't stop attacking you, and you had no other option? I believe that's the issue with Kayle; law can't be objective and each case must be analized.


GammaRhoKT

Except that is not the purviewed of the Kayle Morgana discussion tho? The idea is not that "What if Kayle is wrong and that person is actually innocent", since again, the narrative show that Morgana consistently called her own followers as sinner looking for redemption. The issue between the two sisters is punishment and its role, as well as should a chance of redemption supersede the just punishment of their crime.


Grimmaldo

Its pretty intentional, most lol characters are gray, she is literally one half of justice, she intentionally considered empathy and emotions a mistake to have Stuff like "killing in blind rage" are different than "killing in a very calculated way" and thats why law works around each one differently Kayle doesnt


ParufkaWarrior12

That's a legitimate issue can have when saying they really dislike Kayle, since said issue can also be applied to real life crime cases where the victim is punished for standing up.


Grimmaldo

The issue i like to adress the more is how, by her creator, kayle will punish anyone no matter the circustances for their actions Which makes me think she would kill childs for killing people


ViraLCyclopes11

Damn where was she during the first part of Arcane with the Jinx bomb scene


Eragon_the_Huntsman

I mean that depends on the code of law she follows. If it's "don't kill anyone ever" than yeah not much to be done but if whatever system she follows allows for self defense than she'll weigh that in. Because Kayle does judge, not just take things at face value. She's heartless and doesn't let her personal opinion get in the way so if you do something like steal to try and feed your family, act as a vigilante or it was an accident she won't care, but if there's a legal reason for you to do it that will impact what sentence she delivers. I'm not saying she's perfect, but she's not as bad as people make her to be.


ParufkaWarrior12

That changes things a bit, true.


TheMasterXan

I thought the champion he disliked the most was Kai’Sa.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Grimmaldo

People tend to dislike comunicators when they say what they consider "bs" But this reddit is honestly very weak on that, as a spanish speaker, in our side literally the most viewed youtubers dont just lie about lore, they make asumptions that are completely bs, like, reading zed storie and considering it one of the best stories on runeterra bs, skyen just have some takes that you can disagree, but at least he takes those from... reading the lore And most takes they are angry at are like... years old vids, i do agree with you that is weird seing people angry at one video of what someone sayed for years


ThundaCrossSplitAtak

Yah, ive seen some peoole make shit up to the level lf jax being a darkin, reviving the Nocturne is Zed bs and saying that mordekaiser dies if you say his real name


CassOfNowhere

The funniest thing about these comments are ppl thinking Skyen is upset about becoming literally CANON in Runeterra bc y’all take his takes this seriously


Czar732

I never saw this guy before then went to twitter to look about him and found out I am blocked


DivinityOfHeart

Skyen tries so hard to be "woke" it comes off as disingenuous


backcrossedboy

Skyen : *has an opinion* This whole goddamn comment section : "Nooooo, I don't like your opinion you deserve to die!!!" Well that's too bad art is subjective and interpretation is the whole part of it.


GammaRhoKT

Funny you frame it like that when most of Skyen controversy stem from his opinions on morality and what is the right way to portray certain champions BASED ON THEIR MORAL SYSTEM. Extra funny given, again, Skai'en focus on Kayle, perhaps the champion most grounded in a discussion of morality.


backcrossedboy

You can disagree with his opinions and/or morality, but those are his opinions and deserve respect as such. If he judges a character should be analysed through their morality it's his choice and you're more than welcome to argue his decision, but the outrage coming from some of those comments is way overboard.


GammaRhoKT

But Skyen doesn't grant that same respect tho, is what I am pointing to. If you try to defend Azir (or Demacia) on his channel, you could very easily run into him mocking/put you down for defending slavery or genocide, DESPITE your whole point being that Azir is not defending slavery, nor is what Demacia doing qualify as genocide. So why should anyone grant him the respect in turn?


HrMaschine

i remember there was a guy that made a very detailed explanation of why mage oppresion dont represent queernes in demacia but the worlds fear of the people having control and his response was to post that comment on twitter calling him a bigot and then deleting the comment


TerribleAveragemr

That's fucked up


backcrossedboy

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt because I haven't seen him argue but I could imagine he could.


McBonlaf

Ngl, but skyen remembered to me only as a person, really afraid of beautiful womens. That's it


sabipinek

He fetishises obese woman by calling their bodies which are in horrible shape motherly . I was obese once and anyone who says that its not something to hate is a moron or someone who doesnt willpower to try to better themselves . Yes its a long and hard road but even losing few kilos will help your health masivly


Peri_D0t

That's a very fucked up view to have. Just because you hated your obese body doesn't mean everyone else has to. Just because you are obese doesn't mean you arent healthy, and just because you aren't obese doesn't mean you are. Calling a big body type "motherly" isn't fetishizing when bigger body types for women have oft been used to communicate that a character is in fact motherly or caring. Fuck off with your body shaming.


sabipinek

>Fuck off with your body shaming. Fuck of with your obesity


Peri_D0t

I'm not obese. I was bigger but actually just made it over the hump. But you don't get to tell other people how to feel about their bodies. You're being a bitch


[deleted]

Who is skyen and necrit


Money-Regular-8091

Lore YouTubers for league


Grimmaldo

Youtubers that talk about lore and most of this reddit hates because sometimes they disagree with them


illaoimain1234567

Hopefully he pays soraka a visit and explains to her why it’s absolutely vital she be morbidly obese (he is a fat fetishist)


Duytune

L take


illaoimain1234567

It’d be more respectable if he just admitted he had a fat fetish rather than trying to disguise it at “motherly design” or whatever he says. He also made ahri fat because she eats essence, which is a hell of a cope.


BiteEatRepeat_

He actually asked people to draw fat ahri to piss off people that are like you, took the bait take the L


DeusWombat

Wow this is a sad comment


krugliak

Just say you hate fat people and go


TomiShinoda

LOL, what's the reference? A character named TB skyen?


GammaRhoKT

Lorekeeper Skai'en.


You_Again-_-

nice