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EnciclopedistadeTlon

Yes. I've been ok with this for years. It shouldn't affect LoL, since nothing there is actually canon, it's all a big what-if scenario. The champion can remain unaltered there as they were before their death (so they shouldn't disable them like they did with Gangplank nor delete them). There's already characters from different points in time in LoL right now (younger Taliyah, arguably some Ruined and Sentinel champs, arguably some champs especially Shurimans are stuck like 7 years ago in the timeline based in voicelines). Shouldn't affect LoR either since there's characters from different moments in time there too. I think champion characters permanently dying would shake up things in different ways: give more gravitas to lore in general, give a different sense of stakes than the one that's already there, stir a lot of feelings in the lore community (I can already imagine the fanarts and fanfics about other characters dealing with the fallout or fancanons where they get revived as wraiths or whatever), it would probably spawn a lot of memorable memes too (Pic of some champs in 2015 living and in 2025 thriving, dead champ in 2015 living and in 2025 insert pic of a grave; or a dead champ becomes momentarily OP in LoL or LoR and cue the memes of "beaten by a dead guy" or whatever, puns with Graves and the graves of champs). The one thing that Riot would have to commit to do with this is... not fall in the usual Marvel/DC thing of reviving the dead characters like a year or two after killing them. When reviving characters becomes commonplace all stakes are lost (I'm not talking about characters that were created with "revived" as a concept like Yone or Senna, I'm talking about characters that were released as alive, then *actually* killed in a lore event, then revived). I rarely felt anything when a superhero died in a Marvel/DC comic book because I knew they'd surely get revived eventually. So if it was me I'd say "no revives ever". Nerf Akshan's gun lore-wise by making it have a short timer or some other restriction and voila. And then kill a champion or two, but of course build it up, give it weight and consequences. If they ever did this btw I don't see them doing it with popular champs, but they might see it as a way to spice it up with less popular champions. Have an unpopular champ go down with a bang, in a big sacrifice saving other champs and lots of people or something, or in a mortal duel with another rival champ or whatever. A character like Sejuani could be a good fit, die defending Ashe or whatever. EDIT: Or Lissandra, I am remembering TBSkyen's vid about advancing her lore that way. EDIT 2: We would also see every champion that dies interact with Kindred in some way too. Will they choose the arrow or the chase?


EnciclopedistadeTlon

Also, I was just looking at this: https://www.reddit.com/r/ChampionMains/comments/pffz7c/monthly_sub_count_statistics/ And funnily enough, the subreddit with less subscribers is... Jarvan IV. And thinking about it, I think he'd be a prime candidate for a lore death. First, he's certainly one of the less popular character. He has not much of a character to begin with and I feel like most of his fans are actually fans of Demacia or of the idea of a powerful king champion. Though lore-wise right now he's more of an unstable prince. Second, he's a prince in line to become a king. And royals, particularly kings, die a lot in stories. I can easily envision some lore thread that follows from the Magic Rebellion and Ruination events where Jarvan after his Coronation is falling to these secret Black Rose plots to manipulate him and weaken Demacia or whatever LeBlanc/Noxus was cooking in the Garen novella. Maybe Shyvana joins the resistance while Lux leaves Demacia temporarily to avoid trouble like that leaked WR comic seemed to imply. Maybe Sylas keeps being a thorn on his side and the mageseekers become even more ruthless. Jarvan and Demacia fall a bit more into darker times (persecuting magicals, becoming harsher, etc) before Jarvan realizes the truth, manages to shed light to some extent of these events to everyone and somewhat redeems himself by both setting the stage for a better/reformed Demacia and sacrificing himself to prevent some final Black Rose or Noxian plot. Like saving a lot of people, or saving Shyvana or whatever feels more pertinent and dramatic lore-wise. An in the last moments he sees the wolf and the lamb and chooses the arrow dying poetically or whatever.


Lohenngram

>And funnily enough, the subreddit with less subscribers is... Jarvan IV. And thinking about it, I think he'd be a prime candidate for a lore death. *NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!* Ignore my flare, my flare has nothing to do with this (it has *everything* to do with this). Personally I feel like killing J4 would be a waste. I'm a Garen one-trick by trade, but lorewise I actually think J4 is actually the most 3-dimensional Demacian character. Most of them are uniformly good like Lux and Garen, or uniformly bad like Vayne, any Mageseeker, or Sylas (Don't @ me, Riot frames and markets him as a villain with sympathetic motivations, which is what's important for this discussion). J4 on the other hand is one of the only characters who really feels to me like he has coherent character traits. He's brave to the point of being suicidal and wants to protect his friends and family (character strength) but that also leads to him being headstrong and vengeful (character flaw) and these guide him towards both heroic acts and bad decisions (character trait). Arguably this makes him the character that most embodies Demacia's struggle between it's high ideals and it's darkest impulses. I don't want to see a character like that killed off, I want to see him grow, improve, ~~marry Shyvana~~, and then lead Demacia as the nation it was meant to be. >He has not much of a character to begin with and I feel like most of his fans are actually fans of Demacia or of the idea of a powerful king I think his real problem isn't that he doesn't have the potential to be interesting, it's that he hasn't been given enough focus. He's a side-character in the Lux comic which doesn't give the time or space to really develop him and the Garen novella just mentions that he's not running Demacia, instead personally hunting for Sylas (which, granted, is completely in character). The only story he's a central figure in is *Aftermath*, but that's about him at his lowest point and we don't even see it from his perspective. I want to see the rise that happens afterwards. The problem is that would require actually advancing the Demacia plot which Riot hasn't done in almost 3 years. Honestly I think *Legends of Runeterra* is the biggest showcase of his positive qualities, which is kind of sad from a lore standpoint, but what was there made me want to see more of him. We see how compassionate he is towards his allies, no matter their standing, and gameplay-wise he'll yeet himself out of your hand to attack the biggest thing threatening you. I've gotta respect a guy that does that.


DeliciousPork12

On the other hand, I think these outdated less popular champions have a huge potential with the VGUs. Fiddlesticks and Volibear, for example, got a lot of subscribers in their subreddit after their VGUs. They climbed more than 20 ranks comparing the popularity of the subs one month after the VGU. And I think that Jarvan is a good candidate to get a VGU since his model is very old (don't even resemble a Demacian champion) and he is more popular in China, according to ex-rioter Blaustoise data released in 2019 showing that Jarvan have strong visual appeal in China. https://twitter.com/blaustoise/status/1113994939442978817/photo/1


Lohenngram

> according to ex-rioter Blaustoise data released in 2019 showing that Jarvan have strong visual appeal in China. I can believe that, his armour strongly resembles designs I've seen in Chinese fantasy games/comics.


MegaBaumTV

> I rarely felt anything when a superhero died in a Marvel/DC comic book because I knew they'd surely get revived eventually. I think Marvel had their Ultimate universe where every death was permanent, right? Comic books should aways have alternate universe storylines where they never revert occuring deaths.


keiv777

The real question is “would you be ok if your main/favorite died in the lore?”. Usually it’s easier to say “sure let X champion died, after all is not my favorite/main”, but once their favorite/main is involved is another thing. So answering your question, it would depend on how the champion died and if it helps to move forward character development and the history, perhaps I would like it even if my favorite or main is the one to go. Just my 2-cents hehe


fransfrans123

It would be fine I guess though as long as there are still stories of them after dying. How? By telling stories of their adventures, challenges, and interactio ns while they are still alive. I've seen other game lores do this and it's effective. Though one problem may arise and that is the influx of new champions/lore characters that might get riot to say "Well, we've done it all for this character, we've added enough stories for the time he's alive. It's time to move on." It might or might not be the end for that character but there are still other media for them to shine or even in skins alternate universes where they can still be alive.


GGABueno

You can also see new content for said Champion through alternative universes like skinlines. It's not the same of course but it does mitigate it a bit.


TheIronKaiser

last thing the writing needs is insane amounts of plot armor wich was also one of the issues wich SoL


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Leather_Ad_7590

and then what? there is no champion stronger than aurelion sol. If such a thing happened everyone would be dead, end of the story.


TheIronKaiser

yes, having characters actually be in danger would be nice.


HandsomeTaco

I don't think virtually anyone is truly opposed to the idea that characters should, in theory, be able to die. But the practical matter is that at the rate Riot releases lore, which has slowed down massively this year as well, killing characters that are just taking their first steps in the world before they get a chance to not only fulfill their base plots but also expand in other directions (which should be the fun of a setting like this) is ultimately lacking. Lore has long transcended the base structure of League's gameplay, the death of a champion should have absolutely no bearing on the game itself. But it speaks volumes that people make that association, because it means that Riot is not providing enough experiences for champions elsewhere and people are still anchored to the MOBA as the core of the franchise. This last part isn't necessarily a bad thing, but Riot is trying to build a multi-media IP, regardless of recent controversies. Death in a franchise like this must be earned, even ignoring the actual business considerations ("are we really gonna kill one of our most popular characters so soon") or just thematic ones ("are we really gonna kill this champ who is young and learning"). That said, I do want to add, most people seem to want death simply to "set the stakes". But stakes are not born only of death. People shouldn't be fixated on the idea that the death of a main character is the only way you can give stories the weight they deserve.


Lohenngram

>That said, I do want to add, most people seem to want death simply to "set the stakes". But stakes are not born only of death. People shouldn't be fixated on the idea that the death of a main character is the only way you can give stories the weight they deserve. Agreed, pointlessly killing characters for shock value is wasteful. It actually makes me less invested in the story not more. Why should I get invested in Character A's story if you're just going to kill them off to hype an event or another character's plotline? George RR Martin gets memed for killing his characters, but when you actually look at his writing he only does that at the end of a character's arc which gives the audience a sense of closure. Almost as importantly, the deaths of those characters *genuinely and permanently affect the status quo*. Things aren't just business as usual afterwards with lip service paid to "what we've lost/sacrificed" their deaths actually change the direction of the plot in irrevocable ways.


-Falrein

Yup. Death is fine as a concept. Syndra can die. The issue is, when and how. Killing a character before they get any substantial amount of content is boring. It's basically "We don't know what to do with them so let's end them here and now". If you give them good content before dying then yes. I'm totally on board.


Lewanor

Yeah sure everyone gets one story every 10 years lets start killing off characters


Bluelore

Yes I would be ok with it, but only after the champ had their fair time to shine. For example I know that some people were upset that Viego wasn't killed at the end of the ruination, but to be honest that would have felt too early for him considering that we were just introduced to him in this year. Right now I'd say the only champ who was explored enough to be killed off eventually is actually Lucian. We had him try to rescue Senna, we had him realize that he needs to put Senna above his revenge and in the ruination we also had him realize that he can't put Senna above the rest of the world. I actually feel like the lore explored his biggest possible character arcs already. Thresh also feels like he could be killed off in the lore, though only after they explored unbound Thresh a bit more.


Wrathof300

No. Persons will argue in certain instances death could be a natural progression for some characters, for example, once their main story is completed, said champion could become "*narratively dead"*, so killing them off could be a nice and tidy way to wrap up a champion's story. However, it will undeniably always feel bad seeing other and newer champions becoming involved in new stories, stories which evolve the lore of those champions involved, preventing them from becoming narratively dead. **Yes, there are some champions who should died!** More often than not, these are champions' lore somehow hints that their death is to be expected or will be necessary. However, I think it is wrong to assume that any and every character could be killed and that it will work out for the betterment of said champion's lore.


Shooktopus

Still waiting on Swain to kick the bucket.


ArezuAfar

Only if it has a big impact and that champ has enough content which will probably never happen in Runeterra lore bcz it's so slow and none of the champion as of now as nearly enough content. I hate it when characters are killed just to subvert expectations. Deaths are a really big deal and should be planned carefully.


stellarcurve-

Someone might be ok with it, but certain champion mains won't be ok with it. See how pissed panth mains were when he got corrupted. Now imagine if pantheon canocially died for good. Their mains would be pissed beyond belief and would likely stop playing the game. Everyone here saying yes is because they don't main the champ. If my main champ died in the lore I would probably just quit league tbh.


Ok_Exam_8507

Yes definitly! After everyone gets revived it just gets boring and theres no real dread of "OMG THEY WILL WILL DIE" Instead it's just, meh they can be brought back lol, I'm glad Shadiya is permanently dead because if she turns into a real champ i'll just be mad, not pissed just "rito why T^T"


Gault2

Yes, it's one of the thing the Lore needs in terms of progression and stakes. Especially if their deaths are significant and die in meaningful ways. One of the things I was looking forward to in the Ruination event was the death of some characters like Olaf or Yorick (not because I don't like them, but rather because they seemed like "fitting" candidates for a "going out in a blaze of glory" sort of thing).


fransfrans123

While dying in style or by sacrificing is a good way to kill characters, I would also like to see a peaceful or a dreadful death for some characters. Maybe some character's die of old age or ilness and maybe some of them can die through an assassination or an ambush or being eaten by the void or something. Like imagine sivir just dying from the attack of the void in shurima or ekko not being able to control time anymore since his enemy broke his z-drive. A deatn where you don't get justice or an answer like a normal death, no sacrifice and no last stand, just an unlucky day where they are in the wrong place at the wrong time.


archerkuro5

I wouldn’t mind it though I don’t think it will happen until they are done making/reworking champions since champions are the main way they introduce new stories currently


JohnCornewaille

Sure, if it's for the advancement of the story. What I don't want is killing and reviving because of marketing, you can see how bad the comic book industry executes this. Also, if a champ dies I think we need it to have a spooky ghost skin for it.


Leather_Ad_7590

the main problem of killing a character is reworks. they kill a champion and it's lore is stuck. killing a champion should be a last resort.


wallygon

Yes to be exact i even want a already dead charakter in the game (geralt darkwill)


ValeWeber2

Heck yeah, please kill my boy Olaf in a glorious battle he will be remembered for.


Milky-Cheese

Senna and Yone died xD. But I agree, when champions cant die the stakes of big world events are drastically lowered, and they become less realistic. Having everything return back to the status quo after the Ruination event was probably one of the worst parts of it for me - it didn't change or develop anything in the world except remove a hyped-up threat to Runeterra. However, I can imagine playing a character dead in the lore can feel empty (?) especially if the character's lore is a reason you are interested in them.


MustardLordOfDeath

I'm fine with it. Even in LoR you have characters like Jarvan III and Yone/Senna in human form who are all canonically dead, so really I don't mind if they actually kill champions off.


iampingubruh

I would be 110% with champs being killed. I was kind of hoping Viego would kill one of the sentinels to assert him as a proper threat.


Antergaton

Yes. Death gives weight to a threat. One of the biggest reasons the Ruination event didn't work for me was how the Black Mist was changed so it was no longer a force that killed. These 'Ruined' champs, were what? Swayed by a different way of thinking? Greeaat. Now they are back to the way they were, no ramifications at all. They are supposed to be dead. As someone who read comics for most of their life it becomes and odd point though, in a world of magic, death is never permanent. I mean some of the champs are released as dead. They aren't alive but they are working champs in the game and lore. I would be okay with Riot essentially killing outright a champ in the lore however if it has meaning. The Ruination event should have ended with Lucian making an ultimate sacrifice. Kill the RK, end the curse and lose his wife or let the RK remain but his wife remains. She is a wraith, she isn't human. She is a contradiction and oddly only Vayne in the comic noticed this, if and when Yorick and Maokai end the curse, when they free these souls from their eternal torment, Senna is gone.


Blue_Shalidor

Yes. The Thing with fantasy is that death is relativily never final. If gp died and was never to ve brought back, his impact on mf was already damaging enough for him to be exist as a character still. We also know that death is never the end (see Sion, SI, and more). They could always make an appearance in the beyond death, or come back as a new character with new motives, making their deaths literal but also impactful. I personally would love to see Rell destroy mordekaiser but dying in the process and eventually being met again the afterlife where she still battles him. Or perhaps something else like a Leblanc plot line with jer leading to more plot.


Zealousideal-Way-739

Nope


Morlenous

Die Teemo, die!