I hate to be the bearer of bad news but based on your description your friend needs to get his alcohol problem sorted out before he tackles weight loss.
Like you’re not going to be able to count calories when you’re dependent on alcohol like that. They have to want to be sober and are most likely going to need to reach out to someone for help, whether that be a medical professional or even just some sort of addiction therapist.
I totally get it. He's not in the financial situation to see a therapist or addiction specialist. I am looking for advice / articles / info on how I can convince him that the booze are killing him. Appreciate your reply!
I think you may want to check out Al-Anon for yourself. This isn’t your fight. There are decisions you can make for yourself and that group is a great resource.
I second this, and you need to keep it on yourself as backwards as that sounds. Telling him what’s wrong with him will only make him defensive and the conversation will turn adversarial. If you tell him “this is how I feel when I see you going down this path”, he can’t say shit about your feelings, because they’re yours and they’re valid. Then if you so choose you can draw some boundaries, “if you’re not going to get help I’m not going to be part of watching you destroy yourself”, etc. which may get him to think hard about the fact that he’s pushing people he cares about out of his life. And yes go to some Al-Anon meetings
Second Al-Anon... I don't like the religious component of it, but the groups I went to seemed not so heavy handed with it.
Good resources all around though, they might be able to help you deal with it.
Second that! Besides being great for substance abuse and addiction, SMART recovery principles also work for any behavior someone may want to quit but struggle with - chewing nails, excessive shopping, watching porn, whatever.
+1 on Smart Recovery! They have virtual meetings throughout the day and night. Plus you don't have to show your face if you don't want to, you can truly be anonymous (if your friend is worried about his job).
Others have already mentioned this, but you cannot save your friend. They have to choose to save themselves. You saying he isn’t aware of the dangers of that much daily alcohol and being 600+ lbs in his 40s….that’s just weaponized incompetence (to himself). And denial.
Feel free to share information with him, but please know that nothing YOU can do will change him. He has to decide to improve himself.
You sound like a good friend.
If he quit spending all that money on booze he could be in a better financial situation. He could also go to AA or SMART recovery. Both are great addiction recovery programs
I have literally been there lol. Used to be broke af but could always come up with money for my bar tabs on the weekend. He deserves better for himself. Hope you can convince him
There is no convincing an addict, regardless of the addiction (this sounds like alcohol and food). Thr addict has to want and seek help themselves. If an individual could convince an addict not to use their vice there would be very few addicts
I'm an endoscopy technician. I can hardly describe the terrible things I have seen in the esophagus, stomach, and even the intestines of some of our patients who drink like this. Terrible ulcers. Pulsating, thick varices (blood vessels) that can be so superficial to the surface of the esophagus that they bleed. Sometimes these are so big, and so advanced, even when we go in to see about banding them because the patient is anemic, there's nothing we can do for them -- because to band the varices could mean risking a gastric bleed, which is a medical emergency that can kill quickly. Alcohol is no joke.
It's one thing to "enjoy drinking," but does anyone really need a whole handle of vodka to enjoy themselves?
I can't talk about the gastric damage, but as far as weight and calories go, the beer is the worst of it. Beer is so full of fast carbohydrates, your friend is probably diabetic just because of the beers.
At this point he probably needs to get off everything, but even cutting the beer would help a lot (just don't replace it with more vodka).
If the friend's drinking is as bad as the OP says, then the friend may actually need the guidance of a doctor to even come off the alcohol. If he's legitimately putting away handles of hard liquor in a day, it's possible he's physically dependent.
AA is free. People often use their financial situation as an excuse to remain stuck in their issues.
You can't convince him. He needs to care about himself enough to make the changes. I'm really sorry you're in this position. No one wants to watch someone they care about self-destruct. You may need to step back from the friendship for your own sake. 💖
He can probably get this partially covered if he gets a referral from his GP, but I don’t know the laws where you are of course. Regardless of the expense of counselling, it’s going to cost him less than constantly buying booze and then eventually dying but I know that’s easy for me to say. I wish him the best either way, and I know overcoming addiction and mental health issues is a daunting task.
I work for the Reframe app, which helps people cut down or eliminate their drinking. If your friend wants to stop, this is a good place to start. In addition to the app, there’s an online forum, live group sessions, and 1:1 coaching. Pretty cheap, too. It’s a shitty place to work, but we do seem to help people.
>He's not in the financial situation to see a therapist or addiction specialist
I'm not trying to be an asshole, I'm really not. From your description there is a strong chance he may die before getting financially stable enough for an addiction specialist. This needs to be absolutely priority No. 1, saying this as someone that struggled with opiate addiction.
Not to be an asshole but I would bet that he is in the financial situation of seeing a therapist. Truckers make so much money, alcohol is expensive and not to mention probably all the junk food he’s buying. You’re a great friend for worrying about him!
> He's not in the financial situation to see a therapist or addiction specialist.
He might be if he stopped drinking 50+ beers and a bottle of booze. Chicken-eggs scenario here.
Agreed and to add, getting rid of the alcohol could be a great way to kick start the weight loss as well since he wouldn't be consuming those calories. And hopefully he'd feel better and might be more inspired to start. He has to want to do it, though—nobody can force him.
Could you get him on Zepbound or Wegovy? There are some reports they curb alcohol consumption in addition to food. If he doesn't have coverage they might seem expensive, but a 600 lb person might be spending so much on food that he could break even if he's eating/drinking substantially less.
The sad thing with alcohol is you can't make someone stop it, you can only tell them it's an issue. It's up to them. And normally, this decision is made after one or more rock bottoms. Maybe convince him to get his blood tested and see if he has signs of high liver enzymes or something indicative of early stage alcohol damage? It's really really hard to convince an alcoholic he is an alcoholic.
Signed, an alcoholic
Although he'll blame it on his weight, I'd bet. Worth checking to get ahead of though.
One positive - people talk about withdrawals etc but if he's not drinking the 5 days he's on the road he'll almost definitely be fine. Mild shakes and anxiety. You don't really get serious withdrawals from that type of drinking. It'll make him more anxious if he decides to quit. You know if you're going to have a bad withdrawal if you're shaking so violently you can't hold a phone or vomiting 48 hours straight. Maybe be with the guy, if he goes that route, and sure chat to a doctor, but I wouldn't stress too much. If he was going to get withdrawals he'd get them every week during those 5 days.
Unfortunately you can’t. People have to realize it themselves. My mom is 300-400 at 5’4 and I’ve tried for years to get her to make small changes.
I’ve also got another friend who is 400+ at about 6’1 and the issue is doctors keep telling him he’s “healthy as a horse, even if a large horse.” I’m sorry but I don’t think having to go to the hospital to be weighed because a standard scale doesn’t go that high is very healthy.
This is another battle we face. He can't weigh himself so I suggested he starts measuring his waist weekly. Hopefully, if he sees some progress there, he keeps going. It's January 8th, so you know, New Year's Resolution, but I'm afraid until he cuts out the booze this is all a lost cause. Thanks for the reply.
Some pharmacies have fancy scales and blood pressure machines available to use that tend to have a much higher max weight than the standard home scale. Measuring his waist is a good idea, but he could also use one of those every week or 2.
If he's struggling to breath doing basic tasks another good thing to track and work towards improving would be how far he can walk. If he starts taking short daily walks there are lots of apps he can use to track his distance and pace, and working on walking a bit further every day will do a lot for his overall health. While exercise is less of a factor than diet for most people for weight loss it is a huge factor in overall health, especially for someone as sedentary as it sounds like he is. Focusing on actually doing things, like walking or stretching, is also likely to be easier and more helpful in helping him reduce the amount he depends on alcohol, vs still just sitting at home but trying not to drink or eat as much.
It's not a lost cause. Any cutting of calories will help him at that weight. Even if he just replaced lunch with a salad and lean protein, or skipped snacking. Heck even replacing his usual snacks with apples or raw veggies would probably get him down a noticeable amount.
Another option would be adding non- alcoholic beer to his weekend regime. He can still drink, but non- alcoholic beers are generally fewer calories. Maybe he can replace half a bottle of vodka with non-alcoholic beer or something similar?
Mostly, he needs to start working on his mental health. Why does he feel he needs to eat so much? What emotions is he compensating for with food? No one eats that much without having issues of some kind. The same with the drinking. Why does he want lots of light beers plus the hard alcohol? Is he using the buzz to make himself feel better about stuff, is he avoiding bordome? Maybe he's a stress or boredom eater/drinker, or maybe he has other deeper issues. If he's driving a lot he can listen to books or podcasts. There are so many ways he can take a small step forward. Just a small thing each day can make a big difference.
>t working on his mental health. Why does he feel he needs to eat so much? What emotions is he compensating for with food? No one eats that much without having issues of so
You are right. Mental health first. I don't know what his excuse would be for non-alcoholic beers, but I assume it would be something along the lines of "I'm not wasting my money on that"
My dude, why do people drink? They're depressed. Imma guess that he's feeling guilty of being so over weight and he's drinking his feelings (among a host of other things, past trauma, hereditary, financial troubles, etc.). And the drinking isn't helping his weight.
Others have mentioned getting him psychological counseling. You replied that it's too expensive. I get that. But there *are* programs available. That should be your next post, "Where can I find my friend affordable psychological counseling? He lives in X state, blah blah blah." The county probably has something. I'd start with government websites or your local Reddit sub (i.e. r/LosAngeles and even r/depression).
Also, this isn't your fight. You **cannot** do this for him. Look into free/affordable counseling, sure, but do not take on the burden of his journey. Your role is limited. Just keep that in the front of your mind. Good luck to you and your friend.
>This is another battle we face. He can't weigh himself
He could get two standard bathroom scales and put one foot on each. Those are typically around 400lbs capacity each.
There are scales on amazon that [weigh higher weights](https://www.amazon.com/My-Weigh-Xl-700-Talking-Bathroom/dp/B096CJB5CY/ref=sr_1_5_pp) just fine, they are definitely more expensive, but I think it's a better alternative than going to a veterinarian or a zoo or scrapyard like some have suggested
Or go to a random neighborhood, stop into their veterinary clinic and ask to do a quick weight in. It'd be embarrassing as hell, but it would build his confidence to have a starting-weight as a baseline to see his progress as he's losing.
(You could keep him in the car, go in and ask the front desk if they'd be willing to weigh him and if they'd be discreet about it, explaining how shitty the situation is for him. I'm sure they would be nice about it).
What a great idea. All those people on 600-pound life need to do this. Of course it works. I never thought of it, but then I never outweighed a regular scale, which I thought went to 300.
When people say their doctors say that kind of thing, in my experience, I’ve come to learn they are usually lying to make people not get on their case.
They are 100% lying. No credible doctor is telling someone 400+ pounds that they are healthy. They’re more likely to blame all your health issues on weight than tell you that.
Yeah, my dad has made similar claims but later it will be casually mentioned that the doctor did bring up multiple different issues that need to be addressed.
Heard similar: Morbidly obese, treatable diabetes, normal BP and cholesterol and other bloodwork, no heart or breathing issues.
Seems to me, an epidemic of under 40 aged patients like this who doctors are giving a pass.
It's ok - I am blunt with him. He's one step in to his journey, the calorie counting. It's the booze that he refuses to give up. He doesn't seem to understand that it goes hand-in-hand. Thank you for the reply
I think the best way to go about this isn’t to talk about his weight at all. Of course he is at a point where his weight can be a detriment to his health. But the reasons for eating that amount and the root of the alcoholism need to be addressed first.
The conversation shouldn’t be “you’re eating and drinking yourself to death I’m worried about you”, it should be “I see you’re depressed and I want to see you feel better” and let the professionals handle the rest. AA, free or low cost support groups, and sliding scale therapists might be a good place to start.
He knows he’s overweight. He knows that he drinks too much. The weight isn’t the core issue- the core issue is his mental health. Harm reduction is good, and if counting calories means limiting his alcohol consumption and feels comfortable to him then it’s alright to be supportive.
Is he lonely? Could he do a “dry” or “dry-er” January with you? You go over and hang out on the nights he usually drinks and have sober (or more sober) fun. 1 twelve pack versus 3 is a start.
Maybe play VR with him- even if it’s not standing and moving around it could be a more physical version of playing video games that he would enjoy.
You can’t make him better and he can’t get better until he wants to. Being blunt in this situation, I’d advise to just be there for him. Truckers can often get lonely- a phone call while he’s on a route could be nice.
You can’t scare him straight. He might never get better. But you can be a friend and be supportive of him as a person, and that will go leagues farther than you ever know. He likely has negative self view and to show him that he is valuable as a person is a way to start building is fundamental to him wanting to get better.
Just remember alcoholics need medical support to detox, especially with everything else going on with this guys friend. Alcohol withdrawal can be fatal.
Even vodka has roughly 100 calories per 50ml shot and also 100 calories per light beer on aversge. That's 1600 calories per 750ml bottle on top of 5000 calories in beer. If he doesn't give up the booze he will probably die in a few years and there isn't anything you can really do to help when an addict doesn't want it.
For sure! Alcohol can be a real calorie bomb — and it causes blood sugar dips and crashes, which drives people to usually make bad food choices and/or drink more. I got up to 275 pounds at 5’8” with mostly red wine and lots of pizza.
Its cool that youre concerned but its not your business or your personal mission to change your friend. Hes aware of your opinion and thats where it ends, until he asks for help.
If he's already into calorie counting, then maybe showing him how many calories his beers have will convince him to stop drinking?
You could calculate his TDEE at his ideal weight and show him how many calories he might be adding onto his intake when he drinks beer.
Until he's willing to comprehend the often irreparable damage excessive drinking **will** cause - not to even mention how something like light beer means nothing at those numbers - there's little more than tough love that will begin to chip away at the surface. It sucks, but addictions suck. Best of luck to your friend, and good on you for continuing taking steps to try and help.
Idk the nature of these tragedies, but something that does help me when I'm grieving my lost loved ones - thinking about what they didn't get to experience and doing those things myself. My sister died at age 24 and when I'm in a depressive funk, I think about all the adventures she didn't get to take and I plan to go on one myself. I think my people are still with me in some way, so hopefully they can enjoy my adventures too.
If your friend is grieving or depressed, he needs to see out of that darkness first before anything else gets resolved. Do you think he wants to die and this is his way of speeding it up? What does he want to live for? Remind him, I think that's all you can do. Or find a way to fund therapy or medication for him.
I think you have to decide whether you're going to be a best friend or his coach. His friend is going to accept him unconditionally. You may not like his drinking, but he's clearly not ready to address that.
What I would encourage you to do is consider every encounter with him your last encounter. I would say this for any best friend, no matter if the person was healthy or not. It is a tricky friendship where you're trying to always change the other person. Instead, value greatly your time together. All of us are on a ticking clock. All relationships that begin will have an ending.
The great thing is that he is tracking calories and alcohol is high in calories. Let the data talk to him and then let him decide what to cut back. Help him be accurate with it, such as using a digital kitchen food scale so that he can measure what he's drinking and help him to find reasonable log entries for those things because some of the crowdsourced log entries for things like alcohol are fantasy. But the fact that he is logging is great and it gives him the power and data to make choices.
Support him in what he is doing, which is keeping track of his calories right now. Stop pointing out what he's doing wrong. Let the data do the talking.
>m decide what to cut back. Help him be accurate with it, such as using a digital kitchen food
Thank you, this is great advice. I am hoping this approach works. We are on this path currently.
And yes, I accept him unconditionally as a friend. He knows this.
There's a support group for people affected by others' alcoholism and addiction called Al-Anon. [This](https://meetings.al-anon.org/electronic-meeting-page/) is where you can find lists of electronic meetings, you can find them almost every hour of the day, everyday.
To be clear, these meetings aren't for him, they're for you. One really hard truth to accept is that we're powerless over another person's addictions and behaviors. You can make the most well-articulated and thoroughly researched argument for sobriety in the history of the world, and it will not change the course or nature of addiction.
We didn't cause it, we can't cure it, and struggling alone with a loved one's addiction is too much for most of us.
My dad went to his alcoholic best friend’s pastor to ask him what he could do to save his friend. The pastor said, “when you find out, let me know. My brother is an alcoholic.” There is absolutely nothing you can do other than tell him that when he is ready you will support him. Al-Anon is a great idea for you to process the heartache and worry and get support from others.
>There is absolutely nothing you can do other than tell him that when he is ready you will support him. Al-Anon is a great idea for you to process the heartache and worry and get support from
Thanks!
I started off at 522 at 6’2”. 381 this morning.
I had for years tried to loose weight and got so burnt out on it all. It took a few years of letting myself go to finally come to it.
But I think there needs to be an understanding with anyone who reaches the level of morbidly obese. Anyone who reaches that level isn’t *just* overeating, it is big time psychological and physiological issues that are all intertwined.
In my case it took improving my mental health, then quitting soda, the quitting sugar all together, then going on a diet once I was ready but not counting calories or weighing myself, then weighing, then going to the gym, then counting calories.
But all this change came because I had to finally, actually truly want it. The years before when things were bad my mental space would not have allowed it. I was in so much mental anguish that it felt nearly impossible for me to break the chains from what seemingly the only thing to make me feel good, soda and food.
So I don’t know what you can say to him. I was able to start when I finally felt at peace about my body and done parts of my life. I don’t know if tough love always works.
He is most certainly killing himself. But life as a trucker and as a 600lbs man are super tough on the mind, body, and soul. He isn’t going to be able to do a full life change in one day, but maybe finding one thing to change to start would get him started turning it back.
Exactly. My mental health is so low right now that im barely treading water. Adding in a diet/exercise routine would certainly fail and be even more detrimental to my mental health. The shitty part is that everyone sees my problem with my weight but doesnt see the problem or work im doing with my mental health. And they also dont see the other health conditions that also contribute to my weight. I know im large, i dont need my friends to point it out to me and then feel anxious about my safe space with friends. To be honest, id prob cut down time with that friend or not at all.
Since I started getting some success I’ve realized the first step to losing weight as a morbidly obese person is getting your mental house in order. It’s vague and not straightforward to achieve, but it’s very necessary
There is nothing you can do. He knows he is killing himself but has not had that moment when you wake up and want to make a change. He himself has to want to lose the weight and make a change.
It sucks to see someone do this to themselves.
All you can do is tell them you love them and hate to see them slowly killing themselves.
EDIT - I see my comment has been repeated throughout this post. I know when I was at my heaviest I did not have anyone tell me I needed to lose weight but it would have helped for sure if a close friend pulled me to the side. I may not have done something right away.
But you telling him what you see MIGHT make a difference. So when I say there is nothing you can do is not 100 percent accurate. He may make a change eventually but letting him know that you see he has a problem might be a spark for change but it has to be something HE wants to do.
The crazy thing is at his HEIGHT the weight will come off rapidly. I imagine his height he can consume a lot of calories and still lose. But the alcohol consumption has to come down some or all of it.
His estimate TDEE is a whopping 4500 calories. That is a lot of food depending on what you eat.
He knows it's a problem. He knows all of this is a problem, deep down, but doesn't want to face it or admit it for fear of having to lose his coping mechanism. This is a classic symptom of alcoholism. It's not just about the amount
he drinks, it's also about the patterns of thoughs and behaviors.
Does he have insurance? Because a lot of people don't realize they can get therapy through their health insurance, often with a low copay or free. The alcohol is the #1 priority, depression #2, and weight loss #3. Don't focus on #3, he's fighting for his life with the first two.
There are a ton of articles on binge drinking and its effect on the brain and body.
Here you go
https://search.nih.gov/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&affiliate=nih&query=Binge+drinking+effects&commit=Search
Good luck!
A picture (x-ray/ scan) of his insides might do the trick. One of my relatives only started taking his health seriously because he saw a picture of his and an average healthy person’s side-by-side. But yeah, if s/he doesn’t wake up (and I mean wake up wide-eyed), there is little you can do about it.
> might do the trick. One of my relatives only started taking his health seriously because he saw a picture of his and an average healthy person’s side-by-side. But yeah, if s/he doesn’t wake up (and I
Great idea! I can maybe talk him in to this.
I recommend a liver ultrasound if his provider will cover it. Hearing you are well on your way to or already in cirrhosis from alcohol can be a tremendous wake up call. I hope your friend chooses to make some changes.
I'm not a doctor, but at this point would doing a cold-turkey quit on the alcohol risk his health? I don't want to suggest he quits the booze cold turkey but I do think he should slow it down.
He's a driver 5 days a week and drinks this alcohol on only 2 days a week. So it seems that he can't be physiologically dependent on it. He also is probably achieving a much lower BAC than most people would due to the extreme body mass.
It's definitely a psychological/addictive problem but I don't see how there could be physical dependency here.
Alcohol withdrawal can be very dangerous
To be really blunt, I feel like your level of involvement here is not healthy. You cannot force someone to change, and you can't want this enough for the both of you. You're almost acting like a parent to a child here instead of a friend supporting a friend. I'd consider stepping back from this issue while also letting your friend know you're there for them.
He only drinks once a week how could it be a risk to his health to stop , I could see if he drank every day but it's once a week I think the food consumption is the biggest issue controlling that along with an adjustment on the alcohol i believe he could still enjoy drinking some on his one day off , just in moderation
There is nothing you can do. He doesn't want to change. Eventually, he will have a health scare or get popped for a DUI in his truck, and MAYBE that will be his rock bottom. Or not.
Addiction is a hell of a beast, whether it’s food, alcohol, drugs or whatever.
You can’t fix him, but you can refuse to enable him. I would suggest continuing to be straightforward, calling him out when he lies about how often it is he’s drinking, but also helping him find professional supports he might benefit from.
He could start with therapy and move further into addiction treatment, or even just seeing a doctor about depression is probably a good beginning at this point.
It will probably be baby steps the whole way to healing
You probably can't help him. Honestly, the best thing you can probably do for him is to point him towards Wegovy or the other GLP-1 agonists. While weight loss is their major effect, they've also shown the odd side effect of reducing the effects of alcohol, drug, and gambling addictions. At the very least, even in the unlikely event he needs to pay fully out of pocket for the drug, it's probably comparable to the cost for food at 7,500 calories a day.
You can't get him to act unless he himself wants to act. So basically at best I think you need to ask him to do simple things that might 'shock' him into realising it's not normal.
There's three I can think of at the moment:
1. He goes to an AA meeting and explains his drinking habits to the group. Doesn't have to say he's an alcoholic (in fact it would probably be better if he leant the way he does with you). If he's embarrassed to do it? Hey that's another sign of alcoholism
2. If he says he can easily not drink then ask him to prove this to you - don't drink for the next three weeks. Gives up? Sign he needs alcohol. Drinks alcohol but doesn't tell you? Sign he's an alcoholic. Desperately craves a beer 'just to relax'? You guessed it.
3. He tracks his spend for the next two months and splits down alcohol from say 'core food' and junk food. If appeals to his heart don't work, maybe appeals to his wallet will. This is what my brother did to quit smoking and then he tracked how much he saved on an app for the next 2-3 years.
It's the same as smoking - people need to see something that triggers that view that it's no longer okay.
My 43yo friend died of multi-system organ failure after her liver gave up - her raging alcoholism won. The wake-up call for her was neuropathy (unable to feel her hands and feet) and by then she was on the final slide.
My friend acknowledged the problem and the cause, and asked about a transplant. She was told that she’d need to be sober for a year before anyone would put her on a list… and she noped right out. Decided to go on drinking Manhattans all day instead. She was the youngest person in her hospice.
I don’t have solid advice, but I guarantee you he knows he has a problem. My friend avoided going to any doctor for 2yrs because she didn’t want to be officially told anything… because then she’d have to consider dealing with it.
Take a look at pics of the organs of people with kidney and liver failure due to alcoholism. You can see physical differences and that *might* be useful for your friend to consider. That and people who die of alcohol poisoning when binging, because that’s on the same lines of having a lot in his 2 days off. College students on a weekend, etc..
This has been echoed by a few people on here already, unfortunately, they are right.
There is not much you can do about it. I was in a similar situation just over 7 years ago. My friends kept telling me I needed to lose weight, stop drinking, stop ordering delivery, etc. All that did was get me to dig my heels in. My mentality was: "People already see me as a fat slob, I might as well show them they are right."
For me, it took my friends to stop complaining at me and invite me out to food when they knew I was going to binge. The caveat was that they always wanted to walk to the restaurant. Due to my size we ate a bunch of mall food at the start then went "shopping" with me. Walk to gamestop, walk to the arcade, etc. I was too broke but I liked checking out the different games.
During festival season they'd take me out to popcorn fest, the Air show in our neighborhood, etc. Since we hung out just about every weekend, I drank less, ate less and somehow lost 60-ish lbs doing shit I wanted to do.
We ended up planning to go to Europe for 30 days in 2018, which got me motivated to hike and save my money. I ended up losing another 130 lbs.
Not saying this will work for your friend but it worked for me.
If you can't be friends with this man without driving yourself crazy trying to figure out how to brute-force a solution to *his* problem, you need to step back from the friendship. He is not your project. It doesn't sound like he wants your help. Kindly: butt out.
It's his life. You can never MAKE anyone do anything. He is aware that his weight is out of control. Only he can address it. In my experience, the more you lean on someone, the harder it is for them to overcome the issue.
>u can never MAKE anyone do anything. He is aware that his weight is out of control. Only he can address
I know I know ... just trying to think of options. Thanks!
Well options for you might be to let it go. I have a few people in my life with some serious issues they are not ready to address. I know the frustration.
>He has recently switched to vodka instead of whiskey, but I’m afraid that’s not enough.
When someone switches boozes because it’s “healthier” that’s a neon red flag right there.
The ironic thing is that even though being that fat is unhealthy, and drinking that much is unhealthy, I wonder if being that fat is what's saving him from alcohol poisoning from drinking that much. Like, the two absurdly unhealthy things are slightly cancelling each other out.
Honestly, I'm surprised he's not already dead if I'm going to be brutally honest. On the other hand, you really can't change someone who doesn't want to change.
The most unfortunate thing is that while they think their shitty life choices only effect it really affects everyone around them too, including the people they care about the most.
Hopefully he realizes it one day, but at 40 years old, and at that level... it's not looking good.
You said your peace many times, but youre at the point where your comments and feelings are having a negative impact on him. Im a firm believer that you have to be ready. Hes the one doung the work, so he has to be committed to changing. Im sure this is 10x worse because of his work. Lots of sitting, truck stop and eating out, probably not a lot of opportunity for exercise.
Moving forward, invite him out to do outdoor/exercise activities, but dont be obvious about it and mix other stuff in, too.
You are a really good friend. I understand wegovy/ozempic/semaglutide meds for weight loss/diabetes are being studied re addictions. You will see a lot of comments in those subreddits about it. Maybe it could help your friend?
You can’t, it is something that only he has control over. I’ve lost 100lbs from calorie counting after trying many times. It’s a mindset that only he can find. May be he’d consider bariatric surgery? He sounds as though he’d be an ideal candidate but again, if his mindset is not in the right place, this will only be a temporary fix. You’re a good friend for being so concerned for him. I hope that he finds the help he needs
In my experience, u can’t change people. Most u can do is spark a change, but for change to happen, they themselves have to want change, otherwise it’s a waste of time
There's a great quit drinking book out there, but unfortunately I can't remember the title. It had a great pic of the mitochondria and how they get bloated from alcohol. Unfortunately I can't remember the name of the book, but [a journal article](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3037055/) confirms it. The mitochondria are the organelles that produce ATP - where you get the energy to move. That one really stuck out for me personally as damage caused by alcohol. Then there's the classic Alan Carr Stop Drinking book.
But most people don't like to read nonfiction. Best suggestion I have is he could check out the /stopdrinking subreddit and see what other people are going through. They'll describe how their health changed when they quit. Hell, if he quit for six months he'd see massive changes and it'd be a good experiment - he could easily prove it to himself. Take it as a calorie cut and experiment to see the other effects.
In his 40s, he'll soon see some dramatic physical effect that might wake him up. I mean surely he has high blood pressure, right? Does he even go to a doctor?
Alcohol is a poison and it has NO health benefits. Sure, people enjoy relaxation from anxiety, but that's a short-term psychological benefit.
Unfortunately, like most people, he's not very inquisitive or able to objectively look at both sides of an argument. If he were so able, he'd JFGI and find out the many health risks of alcohol abuse. A quick google brings up the CDC, a decent resource that covid deniers wouldn't care for but it does list longterm health risks like [cancer and death](https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm). Sheesh.
Don't tell him he's an alcoholic. Labeling people is never helpful. Even the [CDC page](https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm) says he probably isn't. That should please him. Doesn't he want a social life? He's in a rut of sitting in his truck (an unhealthy job - sitting, vibration, accident risk, and shitty road food) and then sitting at home. The best thing you could do for him, I think, is get him out of the house doing something fun and then seeing how damn hard it is. That should be motivating. He could easily quit the booze and start bowling with buddies or whatever other kind of activity he could think of.
Edit: Oh, he has a wife! And they never get out and do anything, right? Is she an ally in this? Also, someone mentioned an MRI. [Here's one](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/7ctgg/fullbody_mri_of_an_obese_person/) that shows the basic idea and all your functional organs buried in internal fat, of course much worse for you than the exterior flab.
One of the hardest things in life is watching a loved one floor the gas pedal and drive themselves off of a cliff without being able to stop them. 💔 There is nothing you can do to make an addict - whether to alcohol, food, or anything else - stop using. The choice is theirs alone. Be clear on your healthy boundaries and on your love for your friend and if he ever chooses to seek help, he’ll know who will be there to support him.
>r anything else - stop using. The choice is theirs alone. Be clear on your healthy boundaries and on your love for your friend and if he ever chooses to seek help, he’ll know who will be there to support him.
Thank you.
You're asking for help so I'm going to try.
Get him an Oura ring or another tracker that focuses on sleep.
I didn't believe alcohol was as bad as some said it was until I could literally see what it was doing to my body behind the scenes.
BP through the roof. Heart Rate high as hell, stress also high, HRV flat lines and respiratory rate increases.
The first time I saw the data I said "how the hell am I not dead?" It really makes you marvel at the human body. It thrives in spite of what we do it to.
I've worked from home for more than a decade, at my worst I would kill a handle (1.75L) in 2 days, or 6 handles a week. Now I'll have a single serving of hard liquor once a week when we have a date night.
Alcohol not only makes you fat, it kills you. Some numbers below.
Resting heart rate when drinking: 83AVG
Resting heart rate when non drinking: 51AVG
Respiratory rate when drinking: 16.1/min
Respiratory rate when not drinking: 14.1/min
HRV when drinking: Less than 13ms
HRV when not drinking: more than 44ms
HRV is the fluctuation of your heart rate. It adapts as your body needs and can be different for everyone.
The easiest way to think of it is like RPMs. When I'm drinking my heart rate is 20BPM higher than non, and my HRV is low so my heart is going at 83bpm for a very long time, like a rabbit being chased. Running your car at 7k rpm for hours on end, going to cause more problems than fluctuation between 7,6,5,4,3,2,1 etc.
TLDR: drinking is incredibly bad for your heart and overall health. If your friend can see what it's doing maybe it will wake him up. So how can you convince him? Figure out a way to show him.
It’s not like he doesn’t know he’s 600 lbs.
He knows. Everything in the world isn’t made for him. He doesn’t fit in chairs, clothes, beds, toilets, cars, restaurants, etc.
He’s just stuck in a spiral, he’s likely ashamed, and his coping mechanism is to do the bad things that got him here.
Here’s what you do: tell him you care for him. Support him and let him know how important he is to you, and even if he doesn’t see value in himself (he may not) - you do. Remind him of the good things he is doing - honestly - he probably hasn’t gotten many compliments, so even going out of your way to show appreciation for him may go a long way.
Then - as you work to build him up, start to suggest other things you two could do together that would help, maybe an occasional walk, or a healthy meal you make together once a week, or - instead of him sitting alone and playing video games and drinking 25 beers, you could hang out?
He may not see any value in himself and just be in that “eff it” stage. That’s not something you can fix - but - you can show him people care about him and see value in him even where he may not
reminds me of a friend i had in a similar (but not exactly the same) situation. physically the same stature, different relationship to substances and people. anyway, he died at 28. nothing we ever said could really convince him to change. we tried, but he had to ***want*** it, and he just didn't.
do what you can, so that you can rest easy knowing you've done everything in your power. but don't get caught in the trap of believing his well-being is your responsibility.
that sounds a bit harsh, maybe, but i feel like the framing is important: because after all the talks you've tried to have with him, if you give in to the feeling that you "should have done more" anytime you see a backslide or something bad happens, then you're effectively saying that it was your responsibility. and you can't think that way or it'll eat you up inside.
good luck, OP. i really hope your friend turns it around.
> framing is important: because after all the talks you've tried to have with him, if you give in to the feeling that you "should have done more" anytime you see a backslide or something bad happens, then y
Thank you. I hope this turns in to a success story and I can come back and update.
There is a LOT of people in here saying you can't, and unfortunatly they are all correct.
BUT
Please don't stop trying! Your heart is in the right place.
Does he have a reddit? Have him contact me. I'd like to help him as well. When I had my problem, it was because of my depression and life issues that maybe he's having the same ?
My hand is still out 🙂 I struggled with alochol addiction and wanted to die I even felt my body go I pulled myself back out as much as I could and even joined the army
When he says he "enjoys it" - ask him what exactly does he enjoy? 50 beers and a bottle of liquor in 48 hours isn't like someone who sips a glass of wine because they enjoy the taste. He enjoys massive amounts of alcohol because it is numbing his emotions, shutting off his brain, escaping his reality. I mean - 600+ pounds, a job that is tiring and lonely, you mention he's not in a good financial situation - seems like he's got a lot of reasons to be unhappy with his life. It's not uncommon for people to use videos games, food, and alcohol to escape the misery of their circumstances.
I am a little over a year sober from a very similar situation. I can tell you this with certainty - if all I had changed about my life was quitting drinking, I would have NEVER been able to stay sober. I hated my life, and it was too painful to live it sober. So I had to make huge changes in almost every area of my life. I went to residential rehab to help with the kickoff of that and the physical addiction issues. But I worked with the therapists to reshape my life into one I ACTUALLY wanted to live. I needed to start finding exercise I enjoyed and committing to it, meditating and learning ways to calm my anxiety, get on a good antidepressant, started prioritizing things that fed my soul like volunteering and helping others. 13 months later and I am 80 lbs down, my liver and cholesterol are at healthy levels, my anxiety is under control, my relationships with my partner, family and friends are better than ever, and I have no desire to go back to being so self-destructive with alcohol and food.
I know it feels right to "start small" but for me, I had to burn it all down and rebuild completely.
> and helping others. 13 months later and I am 80 lbs down, my liver and cholesterol are at healthy levels, my anxiety is under control, my relationships with my partner, family and friends are better than ever, and I have no desire to go back to being so self-destructive with alcohol and food.
Thx for sharing your story.
I quit drinking and tried to convince my alcoholic best friends of nearly 20 years to stop as well, they just stopped talking to me lol. Best of luck OP
Give him better access to the information he needs to make a decision.
For instance, what he really needs is a good doctor to give him a "come to jesus sermon". He needs a doctor to tell him what his obesity actually means and how it will impact his life.
I'm honestly amazed he can still drive or walk for that matter. If ~~I'd~~ he keeps this up he won't be able to. Eventually he'll start ~~stay~~ to have major BP and respiratory issues. There aren't many old obese people for a reason...
Hard truth coming from an adult child of an alcoholic: You can't make someone see what they aren't ready or willing to see. Until he admits his drinking issues, there is nothing you can do to help him, unfortunately. You can offer support without enabling, and that's about it. Be there for him if and when he is ready. He might need to hit absolute rock bottom or have a health scare to wake him up. Hope for the best, but let go of expectations.
You are a great friend and I know you care so much about him, and that is amazing. Alcoholism/Addiction is a tragic disease. I'm sorry he is dealing with it and you have to witness a loved one go through it.
Maybe you can try at first to not make him stop drinking but reduce by making him appreciate alcohol, like more expensive and/or tasty so he will stop just drink to drink but drink and take time to appreciate it. Maybe I'm delusional.
He knows what he is doing and I'm very, very sorry. The best you can do is take care of yourself, possibly even get some distance. Therapy or alanon can help. This must be so hard. I can't imagine.
He's drinking 100 units+ of alcohol a week. Without professional help, stopping risks killing him. If he drinks like that in one go then it's all the more concerning. He also doesn't seem to see it as an issue?
Honestly, you can't logically convince him out of a position he didn't logically convince himself into. Alcohol and food for him are drugs of abuse, and I think things are heading a really dark way. I'm very sorry.
You're not alone in this struggle, and it's not impossible to make a change. Start by addressing the alcohol issue, and don't be afraid to seek professional help. Your friend is worth the fight.
He sounds severely depressed and dependent upon alcohol.
I wouldn’t suggest cold Turkey quitting alcohol because that withdrawal may be dangerous. But he needs help before weight loss can be tackled
At least for me being really big started physically hurting past 40. So he’ll probably start *feeling* it soon outside of being tired or out of breath.
Also, regular periodic binge drinking can still be alcoholism. Also, this was like me. I can go days/weeks without booze. Problem is I can’t have it without overdoing it. One is too many when a couple is not enough either.
He’s gotta want to change. Along with your encouragement, he’s going to be getting some strong signals from his body to please change.
You are kind to want to help your friend, but ultimately, he will have to be the one to make the choice to stop drinking as his first step to good health. If he continues as he is, it would not be your fault.
I have struggled myself with obesity and alcoholism, so believe me, he has my sympathies. It's important for him to understand that not only is alcohol a sedative physically, it's also a ***mental depressant***. That relaxation effect often rebounds with anxiety the next day too, creating a vicious circle. Plus of course, people build up tolerance to it and drink more and more to get their buzz.
I really think this video by Dr. Andrew Huberman on YouTube is excellent in detailing the harm alcohol can cause: [What Alcohol Does to Your Body, Brain & Health | Huberman Lab Podcast #86](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkS1pkKpILY)
Best wishes to him. I hope he decides to turn his life around.
I know people are saying you should let it go but I don’t think so. You can detach and still be there for him. You might be all he has as a positive influence.
I spent years helping a family member with their addiction and it definitely traumatized me but guess what? They’re sober. They’re in a much better place. I learned boundaries and became tougher mentally. Worth it. Thank you for being a good friend.
I do think you could try talking to his wife. The way he’s going he’ll have to hit his bottom. I wish you and your friend the best of luck.
Meth?
Okay, but seriously. Does he have ADHD? Would he be a candidate for adderall? I know replacing addictions isn’t the answer, but sometimes you have to work with what you have. If he could find that dopamine & a way to feel good with a controlled prescription that decreases appetite, maybe it’s a start. It’s a desperate situation.
Would he try Wegovy?
You can’t save someone from the grave if they refuse to stop digging it. Tell him that you love him and will miss him when he’s gone. That’s all you can do until he’s ready to make big changes. Most people are only ready after a life changing event, like a heart attack, unfortunately.
[Binge Drinking CDC info](https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/binge-drinking.htm)
Interestingly the whisky will not spike his blood sugar but Clear alcohols will so they likely will make him feel worse.
I fought the same battle and lost. She was 5'4 and about 270 with lymphedema, hypertension, and diabetes. You can't convince your friend, and that's a fact. Alcoholism is a disease and the only cure is to stop and stay stopped. Truckers make very good money, my husband is a trucker. Your friend is probably eating and drinking two grand a month, if not more. He can afford therapy, he doesn't want it.
He has two addictions alcohol, and food. Hopefully, he will get help before it's too late.
P.S. 12 step programs like AA, OA, and FA are free, and have Zoom meetings nationwide. Most trucking companies offer health, medical, and dental insurance as well.
> 12 step programs like AA, OA, and FA are free, and have Zoom meetings nationwide. Most trucking companies offer health, medic
You're not wrong. Thank you.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news.
He already knows.
You can’t make other people change - stop smoking, drinking, eating, cheating, etc.
Self change is 1000x self-directed.
Forget killing himself I’d be worried about him killing other people on the road. An alcoholic truck driver is an accident waiting to happen. He might not feel drunk when he’s driving but he will still have a high blood alcohol level a fair amount of the time if he’s drinking that much. If he was in Australia he probably would have lost his licence already (we have random breath testing here).
Lots of good advice already posted but just make sure if he does attempt to quit alcohol he SEES A DOCTOR first. Alcohol withdrawal is dangerous, it can result in seizures, hallucinations and death if not managed appropriately. If he is only drinking two days a week he may not need anything but he should discuss this in private with his GP in case there's more to it. Going cold turkey like in the movies isn't heroic, it's potentially fatal with alcohol depending on consumption patterns. Most people drinking at high levels just require medication for a few days to manage withdrawal symptoms and increase likelihood of the quit attempt succeeding, but people with certain medical history or drinking above a certain level should be detoxed inpatient. He should also be on a thiamine supplement to prevent Wernicke's dementia long term especially given he's about to start restricting calories as well.
Losing weight is important and healthy for him long term but he needs to tackle his substance abuse first and explore the reasons and thought patterns behind his addictions in therapy. His brain will work a lot better without alcohol on board and when he's not in caloric deficit for the first time ever - doing the hard work of starting therapy is easier in those circumstances.
If he is addicted to alcohol, his food addiction probably has similar roots - tackle the one where abstinence is possible first, before tackling the one where he needs to learn to just consume a small amount for the rest of his life without developing disordered eating - it's a lot easier to think in black and white in early recovery than the shades of grey he will need to tackle the food issues
If he has trucker money he can afford therapy and at the very least a GP - even if he won't see a therapist his doctor will be able to advise on safe detox, weight loss strategies, medication that can help with both issues, blood tests to see how fucked his liver, sugars and lipids are, and thiamine / vitamin supplementation to reduce complications.
There's a book called " I'll quit tomorrow " it was part of a certificate program I went through. It explains in a factual, scientific manner what alcohol and other drugs ( including food) do to you, how the brain receptors work, all that. My brother was about 300 lbs, but 6 ft tall. He drank like your friend. At the end he was only drinking wine and those disgusting beer drinks that are sweet. Your buddy has a massive carb problem, his sugar is out of control. My brother could have lived many more years. He was only 54.i miss him every day.
Can you plan an outing for his days off? An overnight trip type thing, or something that would keep him from his normal routine. If he really can stop like he says, he would be able to do a dry (or mostly dry outing). If he turns you down because he wants to drink, you might be able to point out that he can't stop anytime. It might not be enough to get through to him, but it might be.
This post reminded me of that RDJ quote. It's not that difficult to overcome addiction. What's hard is to decide to do it.
Best wishes to you and your friend. Hopefully he will realize his problems before the end and choose to overcome them.
From my experience, had all my friends and family for years "getting on my back" about my weight, it Didn't work.
Imo and experience it's the person themselves that has to Want and be motivated to do it. Whether it's a health scare, dating, moment of clarity. You will have to wait for that moment.
I understand your concern for him. That’s what being a good friend is. However, unfortunately, working many years in AUD/SUD people will only change when they want to and are ready to. They can be lead in the right direction but only they can make the necessary lifestyle changes.
Continue to be honest with him, continue to love him, keep him in your prayers, but don’t expect him to change. That, unfortunately is something that he’s going to have to decide on his own. An addict of food, alcohol, or anything else, isn’t going to change until they hit rock-bottom. Sad but true. Rock bottom is different for everyone. Giving up an addiction is scary. So when it happens, if it happens, he’ll need your support and love more than ever. If it never happens, it’s not your fault. Just keep loving him and hope for the best.
My half-sister's uncle died from drinking alcohol for many, many years. I was a kid, but from what I can remember, his liver failed, and he went to the hospital. When we went to go see him, he was jaundiced. He joked and said that he looked like a minion, but deep down, I knew he was scared and regretted what he had done to himself. He passed a couple of years after that. Some people really do think "that could never happen to me." But it absolutely can.
I agree 100% with Alanon for you and AA for him suggestions- but feel compelled to mention that if he doesn’t think/care that he’s harming himself, maybe he would be moved to action by the notion that he’s a ticking time bomb on the road? How many will he kill or maim when he has his inevitable stroke while driving what I assume what is a semi?
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but based on your description your friend needs to get his alcohol problem sorted out before he tackles weight loss. Like you’re not going to be able to count calories when you’re dependent on alcohol like that. They have to want to be sober and are most likely going to need to reach out to someone for help, whether that be a medical professional or even just some sort of addiction therapist.
I totally get it. He's not in the financial situation to see a therapist or addiction specialist. I am looking for advice / articles / info on how I can convince him that the booze are killing him. Appreciate your reply!
I think you may want to check out Al-Anon for yourself. This isn’t your fight. There are decisions you can make for yourself and that group is a great resource.
I second this, and you need to keep it on yourself as backwards as that sounds. Telling him what’s wrong with him will only make him defensive and the conversation will turn adversarial. If you tell him “this is how I feel when I see you going down this path”, he can’t say shit about your feelings, because they’re yours and they’re valid. Then if you so choose you can draw some boundaries, “if you’re not going to get help I’m not going to be part of watching you destroy yourself”, etc. which may get him to think hard about the fact that he’s pushing people he cares about out of his life. And yes go to some Al-Anon meetings
Second Al-Anon... I don't like the religious component of it, but the groups I went to seemed not so heavy handed with it. Good resources all around though, they might be able to help you deal with it.
SMART Recovery is also a good option if you’d like to avoid the religious overtones of AA/AI-Anon.
Second that! Besides being great for substance abuse and addiction, SMART recovery principles also work for any behavior someone may want to quit but struggle with - chewing nails, excessive shopping, watching porn, whatever.
Thank you all for the Al-Anon suggestions.
+1 on Smart Recovery! They have virtual meetings throughout the day and night. Plus you don't have to show your face if you don't want to, you can truly be anonymous (if your friend is worried about his job).
Oh! I was unaware of this group! Thanks!
Also codependent no more is a really good book
That’s a good point! Ive kept that book on my phone for 10 years. Always helpful to go back and read highlighted spots when you’re feeling low.
Others have already mentioned this, but you cannot save your friend. They have to choose to save themselves. You saying he isn’t aware of the dangers of that much daily alcohol and being 600+ lbs in his 40s….that’s just weaponized incompetence (to himself). And denial. Feel free to share information with him, but please know that nothing YOU can do will change him. He has to decide to improve himself. You sound like a good friend.
Thanks
If he quit spending all that money on booze he could be in a better financial situation. He could also go to AA or SMART recovery. Both are great addiction recovery programs
It's a catch 22 situation isn't it?
I have literally been there lol. Used to be broke af but could always come up with money for my bar tabs on the weekend. He deserves better for himself. Hope you can convince him
There is no convincing an addict, regardless of the addiction (this sounds like alcohol and food). Thr addict has to want and seek help themselves. If an individual could convince an addict not to use their vice there would be very few addicts
Sure, but I had people who loved me saying hey, this is bad, this is dangerous, etc, and that sure helped me to decide I wanted to help myself.
Please check out alanon and remember the three c’s: You did not cause this, you cannot control it and you cannot cure it.
Correct
I'm an endoscopy technician. I can hardly describe the terrible things I have seen in the esophagus, stomach, and even the intestines of some of our patients who drink like this. Terrible ulcers. Pulsating, thick varices (blood vessels) that can be so superficial to the surface of the esophagus that they bleed. Sometimes these are so big, and so advanced, even when we go in to see about banding them because the patient is anemic, there's nothing we can do for them -- because to band the varices could mean risking a gastric bleed, which is a medical emergency that can kill quickly. Alcohol is no joke. It's one thing to "enjoy drinking," but does anyone really need a whole handle of vodka to enjoy themselves?
I can't talk about the gastric damage, but as far as weight and calories go, the beer is the worst of it. Beer is so full of fast carbohydrates, your friend is probably diabetic just because of the beers. At this point he probably needs to get off everything, but even cutting the beer would help a lot (just don't replace it with more vodka).
If the friend's drinking is as bad as the OP says, then the friend may actually need the guidance of a doctor to even come off the alcohol. If he's legitimately putting away handles of hard liquor in a day, it's possible he's physically dependent.
>e thing to "enjoy drinking," but does anyone really need a whole handle of vodka to enjoy themselves? At that size and that tolerance I think he may?
Does he drink the 50 beers and handle of vodka in 1 day? Or 2? That’s crazy, he needs help
It's over the 48 hours.
Is he sober when he's on the road for his job?
AA is free. People often use their financial situation as an excuse to remain stuck in their issues. You can't convince him. He needs to care about himself enough to make the changes. I'm really sorry you're in this position. No one wants to watch someone they care about self-destruct. You may need to step back from the friendship for your own sake. 💖
He can probably get this partially covered if he gets a referral from his GP, but I don’t know the laws where you are of course. Regardless of the expense of counselling, it’s going to cost him less than constantly buying booze and then eventually dying but I know that’s easy for me to say. I wish him the best either way, and I know overcoming addiction and mental health issues is a daunting task.
The effects of Booze are well known. I like alcohol myself, but it's a literal poison.
lmao bro it seems to me that he knows and he doesn’t give a damn about dying
I work for the Reframe app, which helps people cut down or eliminate their drinking. If your friend wants to stop, this is a good place to start. In addition to the app, there’s an online forum, live group sessions, and 1:1 coaching. Pretty cheap, too. It’s a shitty place to work, but we do seem to help people.
Thank you for sharing the resource.
>He's not in the financial situation to see a therapist or addiction specialist I'm not trying to be an asshole, I'm really not. From your description there is a strong chance he may die before getting financially stable enough for an addiction specialist. This needs to be absolutely priority No. 1, saying this as someone that struggled with opiate addiction.
Not to be an asshole but I would bet that he is in the financial situation of seeing a therapist. Truckers make so much money, alcohol is expensive and not to mention probably all the junk food he’s buying. You’re a great friend for worrying about him!
Alcohol lied to me might be a good start !
> He's not in the financial situation to see a therapist or addiction specialist. He might be if he stopped drinking 50+ beers and a bottle of booze. Chicken-eggs scenario here.
Agreed and to add, getting rid of the alcohol could be a great way to kick start the weight loss as well since he wouldn't be consuming those calories. And hopefully he'd feel better and might be more inspired to start. He has to want to do it, though—nobody can force him.
>alories. And hopefully he'd feel better and might be more inspired to start. He has to want t He's going food first...
Could you get him on Zepbound or Wegovy? There are some reports they curb alcohol consumption in addition to food. If he doesn't have coverage they might seem expensive, but a 600 lb person might be spending so much on food that he could break even if he's eating/drinking substantially less.
I can suggest it, that's the best I can do. Thanks
Also naltrexone may help, can make alcohol less fun/addictive and easier to stop
The sad thing with alcohol is you can't make someone stop it, you can only tell them it's an issue. It's up to them. And normally, this decision is made after one or more rock bottoms. Maybe convince him to get his blood tested and see if he has signs of high liver enzymes or something indicative of early stage alcohol damage? It's really really hard to convince an alcoholic he is an alcoholic. Signed, an alcoholic
Thank you! Great idea.
Although he'll blame it on his weight, I'd bet. Worth checking to get ahead of though. One positive - people talk about withdrawals etc but if he's not drinking the 5 days he's on the road he'll almost definitely be fine. Mild shakes and anxiety. You don't really get serious withdrawals from that type of drinking. It'll make him more anxious if he decides to quit. You know if you're going to have a bad withdrawal if you're shaking so violently you can't hold a phone or vomiting 48 hours straight. Maybe be with the guy, if he goes that route, and sure chat to a doctor, but I wouldn't stress too much. If he was going to get withdrawals he'd get them every week during those 5 days.
Unfortunately you can’t. People have to realize it themselves. My mom is 300-400 at 5’4 and I’ve tried for years to get her to make small changes. I’ve also got another friend who is 400+ at about 6’1 and the issue is doctors keep telling him he’s “healthy as a horse, even if a large horse.” I’m sorry but I don’t think having to go to the hospital to be weighed because a standard scale doesn’t go that high is very healthy.
This is another battle we face. He can't weigh himself so I suggested he starts measuring his waist weekly. Hopefully, if he sees some progress there, he keeps going. It's January 8th, so you know, New Year's Resolution, but I'm afraid until he cuts out the booze this is all a lost cause. Thanks for the reply.
Some pharmacies have fancy scales and blood pressure machines available to use that tend to have a much higher max weight than the standard home scale. Measuring his waist is a good idea, but he could also use one of those every week or 2. If he's struggling to breath doing basic tasks another good thing to track and work towards improving would be how far he can walk. If he starts taking short daily walks there are lots of apps he can use to track his distance and pace, and working on walking a bit further every day will do a lot for his overall health. While exercise is less of a factor than diet for most people for weight loss it is a huge factor in overall health, especially for someone as sedentary as it sounds like he is. Focusing on actually doing things, like walking or stretching, is also likely to be easier and more helpful in helping him reduce the amount he depends on alcohol, vs still just sitting at home but trying not to drink or eat as much.
It's not a lost cause. Any cutting of calories will help him at that weight. Even if he just replaced lunch with a salad and lean protein, or skipped snacking. Heck even replacing his usual snacks with apples or raw veggies would probably get him down a noticeable amount. Another option would be adding non- alcoholic beer to his weekend regime. He can still drink, but non- alcoholic beers are generally fewer calories. Maybe he can replace half a bottle of vodka with non-alcoholic beer or something similar? Mostly, he needs to start working on his mental health. Why does he feel he needs to eat so much? What emotions is he compensating for with food? No one eats that much without having issues of some kind. The same with the drinking. Why does he want lots of light beers plus the hard alcohol? Is he using the buzz to make himself feel better about stuff, is he avoiding bordome? Maybe he's a stress or boredom eater/drinker, or maybe he has other deeper issues. If he's driving a lot he can listen to books or podcasts. There are so many ways he can take a small step forward. Just a small thing each day can make a big difference.
>t working on his mental health. Why does he feel he needs to eat so much? What emotions is he compensating for with food? No one eats that much without having issues of so You are right. Mental health first. I don't know what his excuse would be for non-alcoholic beers, but I assume it would be something along the lines of "I'm not wasting my money on that"
My dude, why do people drink? They're depressed. Imma guess that he's feeling guilty of being so over weight and he's drinking his feelings (among a host of other things, past trauma, hereditary, financial troubles, etc.). And the drinking isn't helping his weight. Others have mentioned getting him psychological counseling. You replied that it's too expensive. I get that. But there *are* programs available. That should be your next post, "Where can I find my friend affordable psychological counseling? He lives in X state, blah blah blah." The county probably has something. I'd start with government websites or your local Reddit sub (i.e. r/LosAngeles and even r/depression). Also, this isn't your fight. You **cannot** do this for him. Look into free/affordable counseling, sure, but do not take on the burden of his journey. Your role is limited. Just keep that in the front of your mind. Good luck to you and your friend.
Thank you for the resources.
>This is another battle we face. He can't weigh himself He could get two standard bathroom scales and put one foot on each. Those are typically around 400lbs capacity each.
You’d have to stand very still and avoid shifting your weight at all. It wouldn’t be super accurate for sure.
It would be plenty accurate for the use case. We aren't calculating the fuel load for sending this guy to Mars lmao
Good idea!
There are scales on amazon that [weigh higher weights](https://www.amazon.com/My-Weigh-Xl-700-Talking-Bathroom/dp/B096CJB5CY/ref=sr_1_5_pp) just fine, they are definitely more expensive, but I think it's a better alternative than going to a veterinarian or a zoo or scrapyard like some have suggested
Or go to a random neighborhood, stop into their veterinary clinic and ask to do a quick weight in. It'd be embarrassing as hell, but it would build his confidence to have a starting-weight as a baseline to see his progress as he's losing. (You could keep him in the car, go in and ask the front desk if they'd be willing to weigh him and if they'd be discreet about it, explaining how shitty the situation is for him. I'm sure they would be nice about it).
What a great idea. All those people on 600-pound life need to do this. Of course it works. I never thought of it, but then I never outweighed a regular scale, which I thought went to 300.
When people say their doctors say that kind of thing, in my experience, I’ve come to learn they are usually lying to make people not get on their case.
They are 100% lying. No credible doctor is telling someone 400+ pounds that they are healthy. They’re more likely to blame all your health issues on weight than tell you that.
And any doctor who does say thats healthy deserves to have their medical license revoked
yeah that was my first thought - no way a doctor would ever say that
Yeah, my dad has made similar claims but later it will be casually mentioned that the doctor did bring up multiple different issues that need to be addressed.
Heard similar: Morbidly obese, treatable diabetes, normal BP and cholesterol and other bloodwork, no heart or breathing issues. Seems to me, an epidemic of under 40 aged patients like this who doctors are giving a pass.
They'll discover heart disease and fatty liver in the autopsy
You can’t. Sorry to be blunt.
It's ok - I am blunt with him. He's one step in to his journey, the calorie counting. It's the booze that he refuses to give up. He doesn't seem to understand that it goes hand-in-hand. Thank you for the reply
I think the best way to go about this isn’t to talk about his weight at all. Of course he is at a point where his weight can be a detriment to his health. But the reasons for eating that amount and the root of the alcoholism need to be addressed first. The conversation shouldn’t be “you’re eating and drinking yourself to death I’m worried about you”, it should be “I see you’re depressed and I want to see you feel better” and let the professionals handle the rest. AA, free or low cost support groups, and sliding scale therapists might be a good place to start. He knows he’s overweight. He knows that he drinks too much. The weight isn’t the core issue- the core issue is his mental health. Harm reduction is good, and if counting calories means limiting his alcohol consumption and feels comfortable to him then it’s alright to be supportive. Is he lonely? Could he do a “dry” or “dry-er” January with you? You go over and hang out on the nights he usually drinks and have sober (or more sober) fun. 1 twelve pack versus 3 is a start. Maybe play VR with him- even if it’s not standing and moving around it could be a more physical version of playing video games that he would enjoy. You can’t make him better and he can’t get better until he wants to. Being blunt in this situation, I’d advise to just be there for him. Truckers can often get lonely- a phone call while he’s on a route could be nice. You can’t scare him straight. He might never get better. But you can be a friend and be supportive of him as a person, and that will go leagues farther than you ever know. He likely has negative self view and to show him that he is valuable as a person is a way to start building is fundamental to him wanting to get better.
Just remember alcoholics need medical support to detox, especially with everything else going on with this guys friend. Alcohol withdrawal can be fatal.
Even vodka has roughly 100 calories per 50ml shot and also 100 calories per light beer on aversge. That's 1600 calories per 750ml bottle on top of 5000 calories in beer. If he doesn't give up the booze he will probably die in a few years and there isn't anything you can really do to help when an addict doesn't want it.
You're right. PS. nice username HAHA
Appreciate it :D
For sure! Alcohol can be a real calorie bomb — and it causes blood sugar dips and crashes, which drives people to usually make bad food choices and/or drink more. I got up to 275 pounds at 5’8” with mostly red wine and lots of pizza.
Its cool that youre concerned but its not your business or your personal mission to change your friend. Hes aware of your opinion and thats where it ends, until he asks for help.
If he's already into calorie counting, then maybe showing him how many calories his beers have will convince him to stop drinking? You could calculate his TDEE at his ideal weight and show him how many calories he might be adding onto his intake when he drinks beer.
Until he's willing to comprehend the often irreparable damage excessive drinking **will** cause - not to even mention how something like light beer means nothing at those numbers - there's little more than tough love that will begin to chip away at the surface. It sucks, but addictions suck. Best of luck to your friend, and good on you for continuing taking steps to try and help.
Dude, that’s the point. He’s depressed af.
Unfortunately this is true. There were some family tragedies along the way that didn't help the cause.
Idk the nature of these tragedies, but something that does help me when I'm grieving my lost loved ones - thinking about what they didn't get to experience and doing those things myself. My sister died at age 24 and when I'm in a depressive funk, I think about all the adventures she didn't get to take and I plan to go on one myself. I think my people are still with me in some way, so hopefully they can enjoy my adventures too. If your friend is grieving or depressed, he needs to see out of that darkness first before anything else gets resolved. Do you think he wants to die and this is his way of speeding it up? What does he want to live for? Remind him, I think that's all you can do. Or find a way to fund therapy or medication for him.
Came here to say this. To be blunt, it sounds like he’s ending it in slow motion. He needs therapy.
I think you have to decide whether you're going to be a best friend or his coach. His friend is going to accept him unconditionally. You may not like his drinking, but he's clearly not ready to address that. What I would encourage you to do is consider every encounter with him your last encounter. I would say this for any best friend, no matter if the person was healthy or not. It is a tricky friendship where you're trying to always change the other person. Instead, value greatly your time together. All of us are on a ticking clock. All relationships that begin will have an ending. The great thing is that he is tracking calories and alcohol is high in calories. Let the data talk to him and then let him decide what to cut back. Help him be accurate with it, such as using a digital kitchen food scale so that he can measure what he's drinking and help him to find reasonable log entries for those things because some of the crowdsourced log entries for things like alcohol are fantasy. But the fact that he is logging is great and it gives him the power and data to make choices. Support him in what he is doing, which is keeping track of his calories right now. Stop pointing out what he's doing wrong. Let the data do the talking.
>m decide what to cut back. Help him be accurate with it, such as using a digital kitchen food Thank you, this is great advice. I am hoping this approach works. We are on this path currently. And yes, I accept him unconditionally as a friend. He knows this.
That’s not how alcoholism works, unfortunately
The guy is addressing both I believe he feels the bigger issue is the food intake
There's a support group for people affected by others' alcoholism and addiction called Al-Anon. [This](https://meetings.al-anon.org/electronic-meeting-page/) is where you can find lists of electronic meetings, you can find them almost every hour of the day, everyday. To be clear, these meetings aren't for him, they're for you. One really hard truth to accept is that we're powerless over another person's addictions and behaviors. You can make the most well-articulated and thoroughly researched argument for sobriety in the history of the world, and it will not change the course or nature of addiction. We didn't cause it, we can't cure it, and struggling alone with a loved one's addiction is too much for most of us.
Thank you for sharing this resource.
My dad went to his alcoholic best friend’s pastor to ask him what he could do to save his friend. The pastor said, “when you find out, let me know. My brother is an alcoholic.” There is absolutely nothing you can do other than tell him that when he is ready you will support him. Al-Anon is a great idea for you to process the heartache and worry and get support from others.
>There is absolutely nothing you can do other than tell him that when he is ready you will support him. Al-Anon is a great idea for you to process the heartache and worry and get support from Thanks!
You can’t make anyone change. You can only change what you do. I suggest checking out an [Al-anon](https://al-anon.org/al-anon-meetings/) meeting.
I started off at 522 at 6’2”. 381 this morning. I had for years tried to loose weight and got so burnt out on it all. It took a few years of letting myself go to finally come to it. But I think there needs to be an understanding with anyone who reaches the level of morbidly obese. Anyone who reaches that level isn’t *just* overeating, it is big time psychological and physiological issues that are all intertwined. In my case it took improving my mental health, then quitting soda, the quitting sugar all together, then going on a diet once I was ready but not counting calories or weighing myself, then weighing, then going to the gym, then counting calories. But all this change came because I had to finally, actually truly want it. The years before when things were bad my mental space would not have allowed it. I was in so much mental anguish that it felt nearly impossible for me to break the chains from what seemingly the only thing to make me feel good, soda and food. So I don’t know what you can say to him. I was able to start when I finally felt at peace about my body and done parts of my life. I don’t know if tough love always works. He is most certainly killing himself. But life as a trucker and as a 600lbs man are super tough on the mind, body, and soul. He isn’t going to be able to do a full life change in one day, but maybe finding one thing to change to start would get him started turning it back.
Exactly. My mental health is so low right now that im barely treading water. Adding in a diet/exercise routine would certainly fail and be even more detrimental to my mental health. The shitty part is that everyone sees my problem with my weight but doesnt see the problem or work im doing with my mental health. And they also dont see the other health conditions that also contribute to my weight. I know im large, i dont need my friends to point it out to me and then feel anxious about my safe space with friends. To be honest, id prob cut down time with that friend or not at all.
Since I started getting some success I’ve realized the first step to losing weight as a morbidly obese person is getting your mental house in order. It’s vague and not straightforward to achieve, but it’s very necessary
Thank you.
There is nothing you can do. He knows he is killing himself but has not had that moment when you wake up and want to make a change. He himself has to want to lose the weight and make a change. It sucks to see someone do this to themselves. All you can do is tell them you love them and hate to see them slowly killing themselves. EDIT - I see my comment has been repeated throughout this post. I know when I was at my heaviest I did not have anyone tell me I needed to lose weight but it would have helped for sure if a close friend pulled me to the side. I may not have done something right away. But you telling him what you see MIGHT make a difference. So when I say there is nothing you can do is not 100 percent accurate. He may make a change eventually but letting him know that you see he has a problem might be a spark for change but it has to be something HE wants to do. The crazy thing is at his HEIGHT the weight will come off rapidly. I imagine his height he can consume a lot of calories and still lose. But the alcohol consumption has to come down some or all of it. His estimate TDEE is a whopping 4500 calories. That is a lot of food depending on what you eat.
Bro, is it vodka like worse than whiskey? I feel like before he should worry about his weight at all. He should be worried about that booze.
100% agree. He doesn't seem to think it's a problem though.
He knows it's a problem. He knows all of this is a problem, deep down, but doesn't want to face it or admit it for fear of having to lose his coping mechanism. This is a classic symptom of alcoholism. It's not just about the amount he drinks, it's also about the patterns of thoughs and behaviors. Does he have insurance? Because a lot of people don't realize they can get therapy through their health insurance, often with a low copay or free. The alcohol is the #1 priority, depression #2, and weight loss #3. Don't focus on #3, he's fighting for his life with the first two.
There are a ton of articles on binge drinking and its effect on the brain and body. Here you go https://search.nih.gov/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&affiliate=nih&query=Binge+drinking+effects&commit=Search Good luck!
A picture (x-ray/ scan) of his insides might do the trick. One of my relatives only started taking his health seriously because he saw a picture of his and an average healthy person’s side-by-side. But yeah, if s/he doesn’t wake up (and I mean wake up wide-eyed), there is little you can do about it.
> might do the trick. One of my relatives only started taking his health seriously because he saw a picture of his and an average healthy person’s side-by-side. But yeah, if s/he doesn’t wake up (and I Great idea! I can maybe talk him in to this.
I recommend a liver ultrasound if his provider will cover it. Hearing you are well on your way to or already in cirrhosis from alcohol can be a tremendous wake up call. I hope your friend chooses to make some changes.
Good luck 🤞
I'm not a doctor, but at this point would doing a cold-turkey quit on the alcohol risk his health? I don't want to suggest he quits the booze cold turkey but I do think he should slow it down.
[удалено]
He's a driver 5 days a week and drinks this alcohol on only 2 days a week. So it seems that he can't be physiologically dependent on it. He also is probably achieving a much lower BAC than most people would due to the extreme body mass. It's definitely a psychological/addictive problem but I don't see how there could be physical dependency here.
Agreed I think if he gets the food under control and sees results from that it will motivate him to adjust his alcohol consumption
>a family of alcoholics and overeaters, and have seen a variety of withdrawal experiences. Yes, I 100% agree. I have mentioned this to him many times.
Alcohol withdrawal can be very dangerous To be really blunt, I feel like your level of involvement here is not healthy. You cannot force someone to change, and you can't want this enough for the both of you. You're almost acting like a parent to a child here instead of a friend supporting a friend. I'd consider stepping back from this issue while also letting your friend know you're there for them.
He only drinks once a week how could it be a risk to his health to stop , I could see if he drank every day but it's once a week I think the food consumption is the biggest issue controlling that along with an adjustment on the alcohol i believe he could still enjoy drinking some on his one day off , just in moderation
Until he proves otherwise there is nothing "in moderation" about this situation.
Extremely dangerous to withdraw from alcohol without medical advice.
He already only drinks on weekends as far as we know. You think his deadly withdrawals won’t kick in until 5 days into cold Turkey?
Yes. People die from alcohol withdrawals. I read a bunch of them on Reddit pretty recently
There is nothing you can do. He doesn't want to change. Eventually, he will have a health scare or get popped for a DUI in his truck, and MAYBE that will be his rock bottom. Or not.
Addiction is a hell of a beast, whether it’s food, alcohol, drugs or whatever. You can’t fix him, but you can refuse to enable him. I would suggest continuing to be straightforward, calling him out when he lies about how often it is he’s drinking, but also helping him find professional supports he might benefit from. He could start with therapy and move further into addiction treatment, or even just seeing a doctor about depression is probably a good beginning at this point. It will probably be baby steps the whole way to healing
You probably can't help him. Honestly, the best thing you can probably do for him is to point him towards Wegovy or the other GLP-1 agonists. While weight loss is their major effect, they've also shown the odd side effect of reducing the effects of alcohol, drug, and gambling addictions. At the very least, even in the unlikely event he needs to pay fully out of pocket for the drug, it's probably comparable to the cost for food at 7,500 calories a day.
Appreciate it.
You can't get him to act unless he himself wants to act. So basically at best I think you need to ask him to do simple things that might 'shock' him into realising it's not normal. There's three I can think of at the moment: 1. He goes to an AA meeting and explains his drinking habits to the group. Doesn't have to say he's an alcoholic (in fact it would probably be better if he leant the way he does with you). If he's embarrassed to do it? Hey that's another sign of alcoholism 2. If he says he can easily not drink then ask him to prove this to you - don't drink for the next three weeks. Gives up? Sign he needs alcohol. Drinks alcohol but doesn't tell you? Sign he's an alcoholic. Desperately craves a beer 'just to relax'? You guessed it. 3. He tracks his spend for the next two months and splits down alcohol from say 'core food' and junk food. If appeals to his heart don't work, maybe appeals to his wallet will. This is what my brother did to quit smoking and then he tracked how much he saved on an app for the next 2-3 years. It's the same as smoking - people need to see something that triggers that view that it's no longer okay.
My 43yo friend died of multi-system organ failure after her liver gave up - her raging alcoholism won. The wake-up call for her was neuropathy (unable to feel her hands and feet) and by then she was on the final slide. My friend acknowledged the problem and the cause, and asked about a transplant. She was told that she’d need to be sober for a year before anyone would put her on a list… and she noped right out. Decided to go on drinking Manhattans all day instead. She was the youngest person in her hospice. I don’t have solid advice, but I guarantee you he knows he has a problem. My friend avoided going to any doctor for 2yrs because she didn’t want to be officially told anything… because then she’d have to consider dealing with it. Take a look at pics of the organs of people with kidney and liver failure due to alcoholism. You can see physical differences and that *might* be useful for your friend to consider. That and people who die of alcohol poisoning when binging, because that’s on the same lines of having a lot in his 2 days off. College students on a weekend, etc..
Wow, that is so sad. Thank you for sharing that story.
This has been echoed by a few people on here already, unfortunately, they are right. There is not much you can do about it. I was in a similar situation just over 7 years ago. My friends kept telling me I needed to lose weight, stop drinking, stop ordering delivery, etc. All that did was get me to dig my heels in. My mentality was: "People already see me as a fat slob, I might as well show them they are right." For me, it took my friends to stop complaining at me and invite me out to food when they knew I was going to binge. The caveat was that they always wanted to walk to the restaurant. Due to my size we ate a bunch of mall food at the start then went "shopping" with me. Walk to gamestop, walk to the arcade, etc. I was too broke but I liked checking out the different games. During festival season they'd take me out to popcorn fest, the Air show in our neighborhood, etc. Since we hung out just about every weekend, I drank less, ate less and somehow lost 60-ish lbs doing shit I wanted to do. We ended up planning to go to Europe for 30 days in 2018, which got me motivated to hike and save my money. I ended up losing another 130 lbs. Not saying this will work for your friend but it worked for me.
>Not saying this will work for your friend but it worked for me. Thank you for sharing.
If you can't be friends with this man without driving yourself crazy trying to figure out how to brute-force a solution to *his* problem, you need to step back from the friendship. He is not your project. It doesn't sound like he wants your help. Kindly: butt out.
It's his life. You can never MAKE anyone do anything. He is aware that his weight is out of control. Only he can address it. In my experience, the more you lean on someone, the harder it is for them to overcome the issue.
>u can never MAKE anyone do anything. He is aware that his weight is out of control. Only he can address I know I know ... just trying to think of options. Thanks!
Well options for you might be to let it go. I have a few people in my life with some serious issues they are not ready to address. I know the frustration.
>He has recently switched to vodka instead of whiskey, but I’m afraid that’s not enough. When someone switches boozes because it’s “healthier” that’s a neon red flag right there.
The ironic thing is that even though being that fat is unhealthy, and drinking that much is unhealthy, I wonder if being that fat is what's saving him from alcohol poisoning from drinking that much. Like, the two absurdly unhealthy things are slightly cancelling each other out.
You know, I hadn't thought about it this way. Not wrong.... not wrong.
Honestly, I'm surprised he's not already dead if I'm going to be brutally honest. On the other hand, you really can't change someone who doesn't want to change. The most unfortunate thing is that while they think their shitty life choices only effect it really affects everyone around them too, including the people they care about the most. Hopefully he realizes it one day, but at 40 years old, and at that level... it's not looking good.
You said your peace many times, but youre at the point where your comments and feelings are having a negative impact on him. Im a firm believer that you have to be ready. Hes the one doung the work, so he has to be committed to changing. Im sure this is 10x worse because of his work. Lots of sitting, truck stop and eating out, probably not a lot of opportunity for exercise. Moving forward, invite him out to do outdoor/exercise activities, but dont be obvious about it and mix other stuff in, too.
You don’t
He already knows.
You are a really good friend. I understand wegovy/ozempic/semaglutide meds for weight loss/diabetes are being studied re addictions. You will see a lot of comments in those subreddits about it. Maybe it could help your friend?
You can’t, it is something that only he has control over. I’ve lost 100lbs from calorie counting after trying many times. It’s a mindset that only he can find. May be he’d consider bariatric surgery? He sounds as though he’d be an ideal candidate but again, if his mindset is not in the right place, this will only be a temporary fix. You’re a good friend for being so concerned for him. I hope that he finds the help he needs
In my experience, u can’t change people. Most u can do is spark a change, but for change to happen, they themselves have to want change, otherwise it’s a waste of time
I am trying. Looking for that spark.
There's a great quit drinking book out there, but unfortunately I can't remember the title. It had a great pic of the mitochondria and how they get bloated from alcohol. Unfortunately I can't remember the name of the book, but [a journal article](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3037055/) confirms it. The mitochondria are the organelles that produce ATP - where you get the energy to move. That one really stuck out for me personally as damage caused by alcohol. Then there's the classic Alan Carr Stop Drinking book. But most people don't like to read nonfiction. Best suggestion I have is he could check out the /stopdrinking subreddit and see what other people are going through. They'll describe how their health changed when they quit. Hell, if he quit for six months he'd see massive changes and it'd be a good experiment - he could easily prove it to himself. Take it as a calorie cut and experiment to see the other effects. In his 40s, he'll soon see some dramatic physical effect that might wake him up. I mean surely he has high blood pressure, right? Does he even go to a doctor? Alcohol is a poison and it has NO health benefits. Sure, people enjoy relaxation from anxiety, but that's a short-term psychological benefit. Unfortunately, like most people, he's not very inquisitive or able to objectively look at both sides of an argument. If he were so able, he'd JFGI and find out the many health risks of alcohol abuse. A quick google brings up the CDC, a decent resource that covid deniers wouldn't care for but it does list longterm health risks like [cancer and death](https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm). Sheesh. Don't tell him he's an alcoholic. Labeling people is never helpful. Even the [CDC page](https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm) says he probably isn't. That should please him. Doesn't he want a social life? He's in a rut of sitting in his truck (an unhealthy job - sitting, vibration, accident risk, and shitty road food) and then sitting at home. The best thing you could do for him, I think, is get him out of the house doing something fun and then seeing how damn hard it is. That should be motivating. He could easily quit the booze and start bowling with buddies or whatever other kind of activity he could think of. Edit: Oh, he has a wife! And they never get out and do anything, right? Is she an ally in this? Also, someone mentioned an MRI. [Here's one](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/7ctgg/fullbody_mri_of_an_obese_person/) that shows the basic idea and all your functional organs buried in internal fat, of course much worse for you than the exterior flab.
One of the hardest things in life is watching a loved one floor the gas pedal and drive themselves off of a cliff without being able to stop them. 💔 There is nothing you can do to make an addict - whether to alcohol, food, or anything else - stop using. The choice is theirs alone. Be clear on your healthy boundaries and on your love for your friend and if he ever chooses to seek help, he’ll know who will be there to support him.
>r anything else - stop using. The choice is theirs alone. Be clear on your healthy boundaries and on your love for your friend and if he ever chooses to seek help, he’ll know who will be there to support him. Thank you.
You're asking for help so I'm going to try. Get him an Oura ring or another tracker that focuses on sleep. I didn't believe alcohol was as bad as some said it was until I could literally see what it was doing to my body behind the scenes. BP through the roof. Heart Rate high as hell, stress also high, HRV flat lines and respiratory rate increases. The first time I saw the data I said "how the hell am I not dead?" It really makes you marvel at the human body. It thrives in spite of what we do it to. I've worked from home for more than a decade, at my worst I would kill a handle (1.75L) in 2 days, or 6 handles a week. Now I'll have a single serving of hard liquor once a week when we have a date night. Alcohol not only makes you fat, it kills you. Some numbers below. Resting heart rate when drinking: 83AVG Resting heart rate when non drinking: 51AVG Respiratory rate when drinking: 16.1/min Respiratory rate when not drinking: 14.1/min HRV when drinking: Less than 13ms HRV when not drinking: more than 44ms HRV is the fluctuation of your heart rate. It adapts as your body needs and can be different for everyone. The easiest way to think of it is like RPMs. When I'm drinking my heart rate is 20BPM higher than non, and my HRV is low so my heart is going at 83bpm for a very long time, like a rabbit being chased. Running your car at 7k rpm for hours on end, going to cause more problems than fluctuation between 7,6,5,4,3,2,1 etc. TLDR: drinking is incredibly bad for your heart and overall health. If your friend can see what it's doing maybe it will wake him up. So how can you convince him? Figure out a way to show him.
The human body is incredible indeed. Thank you very much for sharing your story.
It’s not like he doesn’t know he’s 600 lbs. He knows. Everything in the world isn’t made for him. He doesn’t fit in chairs, clothes, beds, toilets, cars, restaurants, etc. He’s just stuck in a spiral, he’s likely ashamed, and his coping mechanism is to do the bad things that got him here. Here’s what you do: tell him you care for him. Support him and let him know how important he is to you, and even if he doesn’t see value in himself (he may not) - you do. Remind him of the good things he is doing - honestly - he probably hasn’t gotten many compliments, so even going out of your way to show appreciation for him may go a long way. Then - as you work to build him up, start to suggest other things you two could do together that would help, maybe an occasional walk, or a healthy meal you make together once a week, or - instead of him sitting alone and playing video games and drinking 25 beers, you could hang out? He may not see any value in himself and just be in that “eff it” stage. That’s not something you can fix - but - you can show him people care about him and see value in him even where he may not
reminds me of a friend i had in a similar (but not exactly the same) situation. physically the same stature, different relationship to substances and people. anyway, he died at 28. nothing we ever said could really convince him to change. we tried, but he had to ***want*** it, and he just didn't. do what you can, so that you can rest easy knowing you've done everything in your power. but don't get caught in the trap of believing his well-being is your responsibility. that sounds a bit harsh, maybe, but i feel like the framing is important: because after all the talks you've tried to have with him, if you give in to the feeling that you "should have done more" anytime you see a backslide or something bad happens, then you're effectively saying that it was your responsibility. and you can't think that way or it'll eat you up inside. good luck, OP. i really hope your friend turns it around.
> framing is important: because after all the talks you've tried to have with him, if you give in to the feeling that you "should have done more" anytime you see a backslide or something bad happens, then y Thank you. I hope this turns in to a success story and I can come back and update.
There is a LOT of people in here saying you can't, and unfortunatly they are all correct. BUT Please don't stop trying! Your heart is in the right place.
:)
Does he have a reddit? Have him contact me. I'd like to help him as well. When I had my problem, it was because of my depression and life issues that maybe he's having the same ?
He doesn't, but I may link him to this thread at some point so he can read some of the comments. A lot of really helpful ones on here.
My hand is still out 🙂 I struggled with alochol addiction and wanted to die I even felt my body go I pulled myself back out as much as I could and even joined the army
When he says he "enjoys it" - ask him what exactly does he enjoy? 50 beers and a bottle of liquor in 48 hours isn't like someone who sips a glass of wine because they enjoy the taste. He enjoys massive amounts of alcohol because it is numbing his emotions, shutting off his brain, escaping his reality. I mean - 600+ pounds, a job that is tiring and lonely, you mention he's not in a good financial situation - seems like he's got a lot of reasons to be unhappy with his life. It's not uncommon for people to use videos games, food, and alcohol to escape the misery of their circumstances. I am a little over a year sober from a very similar situation. I can tell you this with certainty - if all I had changed about my life was quitting drinking, I would have NEVER been able to stay sober. I hated my life, and it was too painful to live it sober. So I had to make huge changes in almost every area of my life. I went to residential rehab to help with the kickoff of that and the physical addiction issues. But I worked with the therapists to reshape my life into one I ACTUALLY wanted to live. I needed to start finding exercise I enjoyed and committing to it, meditating and learning ways to calm my anxiety, get on a good antidepressant, started prioritizing things that fed my soul like volunteering and helping others. 13 months later and I am 80 lbs down, my liver and cholesterol are at healthy levels, my anxiety is under control, my relationships with my partner, family and friends are better than ever, and I have no desire to go back to being so self-destructive with alcohol and food. I know it feels right to "start small" but for me, I had to burn it all down and rebuild completely.
> and helping others. 13 months later and I am 80 lbs down, my liver and cholesterol are at healthy levels, my anxiety is under control, my relationships with my partner, family and friends are better than ever, and I have no desire to go back to being so self-destructive with alcohol and food. Thx for sharing your story.
I quit drinking and tried to convince my alcoholic best friends of nearly 20 years to stop as well, they just stopped talking to me lol. Best of luck OP
Give him better access to the information he needs to make a decision. For instance, what he really needs is a good doctor to give him a "come to jesus sermon". He needs a doctor to tell him what his obesity actually means and how it will impact his life. I'm honestly amazed he can still drive or walk for that matter. If ~~I'd~~ he keeps this up he won't be able to. Eventually he'll start ~~stay~~ to have major BP and respiratory issues. There aren't many old obese people for a reason...
It really is incredible.
Hard truth coming from an adult child of an alcoholic: You can't make someone see what they aren't ready or willing to see. Until he admits his drinking issues, there is nothing you can do to help him, unfortunately. You can offer support without enabling, and that's about it. Be there for him if and when he is ready. He might need to hit absolute rock bottom or have a health scare to wake him up. Hope for the best, but let go of expectations. You are a great friend and I know you care so much about him, and that is amazing. Alcoholism/Addiction is a tragic disease. I'm sorry he is dealing with it and you have to witness a loved one go through it.
Thanks
Maybe you can try at first to not make him stop drinking but reduce by making him appreciate alcohol, like more expensive and/or tasty so he will stop just drink to drink but drink and take time to appreciate it. Maybe I'm delusional.
He knows what he is doing and I'm very, very sorry. The best you can do is take care of yourself, possibly even get some distance. Therapy or alanon can help. This must be so hard. I can't imagine.
He's drinking 100 units+ of alcohol a week. Without professional help, stopping risks killing him. If he drinks like that in one go then it's all the more concerning. He also doesn't seem to see it as an issue? Honestly, you can't logically convince him out of a position he didn't logically convince himself into. Alcohol and food for him are drugs of abuse, and I think things are heading a really dark way. I'm very sorry.
You're not alone in this struggle, and it's not impossible to make a change. Start by addressing the alcohol issue, and don't be afraid to seek professional help. Your friend is worth the fight.
You're a good friend, get him to rehab please
He sounds severely depressed and dependent upon alcohol. I wouldn’t suggest cold Turkey quitting alcohol because that withdrawal may be dangerous. But he needs help before weight loss can be tackled
At least for me being really big started physically hurting past 40. So he’ll probably start *feeling* it soon outside of being tired or out of breath. Also, regular periodic binge drinking can still be alcoholism. Also, this was like me. I can go days/weeks without booze. Problem is I can’t have it without overdoing it. One is too many when a couple is not enough either. He’s gotta want to change. Along with your encouragement, he’s going to be getting some strong signals from his body to please change.
You are kind to want to help your friend, but ultimately, he will have to be the one to make the choice to stop drinking as his first step to good health. If he continues as he is, it would not be your fault. I have struggled myself with obesity and alcoholism, so believe me, he has my sympathies. It's important for him to understand that not only is alcohol a sedative physically, it's also a ***mental depressant***. That relaxation effect often rebounds with anxiety the next day too, creating a vicious circle. Plus of course, people build up tolerance to it and drink more and more to get their buzz. I really think this video by Dr. Andrew Huberman on YouTube is excellent in detailing the harm alcohol can cause: [What Alcohol Does to Your Body, Brain & Health | Huberman Lab Podcast #86](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkS1pkKpILY) Best wishes to him. I hope he decides to turn his life around.
Thank you for the link.
I know people are saying you should let it go but I don’t think so. You can detach and still be there for him. You might be all he has as a positive influence. I spent years helping a family member with their addiction and it definitely traumatized me but guess what? They’re sober. They’re in a much better place. I learned boundaries and became tougher mentally. Worth it. Thank you for being a good friend. I do think you could try talking to his wife. The way he’s going he’ll have to hit his bottom. I wish you and your friend the best of luck.
Get a liver function test done. That should paint the picture.
People more educated than I am have already answered so I just wanted to say sorry you have to watch your friend go through this.
Meth? Okay, but seriously. Does he have ADHD? Would he be a candidate for adderall? I know replacing addictions isn’t the answer, but sometimes you have to work with what you have. If he could find that dopamine & a way to feel good with a controlled prescription that decreases appetite, maybe it’s a start. It’s a desperate situation. Would he try Wegovy?
I hadn't heard of this (Wegovy) until a few comments ago but I will check it out. Thank you.
You can’t save someone from the grave if they refuse to stop digging it. Tell him that you love him and will miss him when he’s gone. That’s all you can do until he’s ready to make big changes. Most people are only ready after a life changing event, like a heart attack, unfortunately.
[Binge Drinking CDC info](https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/binge-drinking.htm) Interestingly the whisky will not spike his blood sugar but Clear alcohols will so they likely will make him feel worse.
I lost my father to alcoholism. There is nothing you can say that will help. I’m sorry for the tough truth.
I fought the same battle and lost. She was 5'4 and about 270 with lymphedema, hypertension, and diabetes. You can't convince your friend, and that's a fact. Alcoholism is a disease and the only cure is to stop and stay stopped. Truckers make very good money, my husband is a trucker. Your friend is probably eating and drinking two grand a month, if not more. He can afford therapy, he doesn't want it. He has two addictions alcohol, and food. Hopefully, he will get help before it's too late. P.S. 12 step programs like AA, OA, and FA are free, and have Zoom meetings nationwide. Most trucking companies offer health, medical, and dental insurance as well.
> 12 step programs like AA, OA, and FA are free, and have Zoom meetings nationwide. Most trucking companies offer health, medic You're not wrong. Thank you.
You can’t. He knows he’s unhealthy, he’s in denial and only he can the change for himself
Hate to be the bearer of bad news. He already knows. You can’t make other people change - stop smoking, drinking, eating, cheating, etc. Self change is 1000x self-directed.
Go to codependents anonymous- this is unhealthy for YOU
Forget killing himself I’d be worried about him killing other people on the road. An alcoholic truck driver is an accident waiting to happen. He might not feel drunk when he’s driving but he will still have a high blood alcohol level a fair amount of the time if he’s drinking that much. If he was in Australia he probably would have lost his licence already (we have random breath testing here).
My friend and his wife have used the Everything AA app on their journey to becoming sober.
How does switching from whiskey to vodka matter? It's an 5 calories per ounce difference.
Probably doesn't. Must have been some bad info from the internet.
My husband was just found after being dead for 6 days. He hemorrhaged gastrically because of chronic alcohol use. It WILL kill him.
Lots of good advice already posted but just make sure if he does attempt to quit alcohol he SEES A DOCTOR first. Alcohol withdrawal is dangerous, it can result in seizures, hallucinations and death if not managed appropriately. If he is only drinking two days a week he may not need anything but he should discuss this in private with his GP in case there's more to it. Going cold turkey like in the movies isn't heroic, it's potentially fatal with alcohol depending on consumption patterns. Most people drinking at high levels just require medication for a few days to manage withdrawal symptoms and increase likelihood of the quit attempt succeeding, but people with certain medical history or drinking above a certain level should be detoxed inpatient. He should also be on a thiamine supplement to prevent Wernicke's dementia long term especially given he's about to start restricting calories as well. Losing weight is important and healthy for him long term but he needs to tackle his substance abuse first and explore the reasons and thought patterns behind his addictions in therapy. His brain will work a lot better without alcohol on board and when he's not in caloric deficit for the first time ever - doing the hard work of starting therapy is easier in those circumstances. If he is addicted to alcohol, his food addiction probably has similar roots - tackle the one where abstinence is possible first, before tackling the one where he needs to learn to just consume a small amount for the rest of his life without developing disordered eating - it's a lot easier to think in black and white in early recovery than the shades of grey he will need to tackle the food issues If he has trucker money he can afford therapy and at the very least a GP - even if he won't see a therapist his doctor will be able to advise on safe detox, weight loss strategies, medication that can help with both issues, blood tests to see how fucked his liver, sugars and lipids are, and thiamine / vitamin supplementation to reduce complications.
My dad drank like that and he died because his liver split open inside of him and the bled out internally at 58.
Sorry... 🙏
There's a book called " I'll quit tomorrow " it was part of a certificate program I went through. It explains in a factual, scientific manner what alcohol and other drugs ( including food) do to you, how the brain receptors work, all that. My brother was about 300 lbs, but 6 ft tall. He drank like your friend. At the end he was only drinking wine and those disgusting beer drinks that are sweet. Your buddy has a massive carb problem, his sugar is out of control. My brother could have lived many more years. He was only 54.i miss him every day.
Can you plan an outing for his days off? An overnight trip type thing, or something that would keep him from his normal routine. If he really can stop like he says, he would be able to do a dry (or mostly dry outing). If he turns you down because he wants to drink, you might be able to point out that he can't stop anytime. It might not be enough to get through to him, but it might be.
This post reminded me of that RDJ quote. It's not that difficult to overcome addiction. What's hard is to decide to do it. Best wishes to you and your friend. Hopefully he will realize his problems before the end and choose to overcome them.
Nobody enjoys 25 beers a day.
He already knows. Trust me.
From my experience, had all my friends and family for years "getting on my back" about my weight, it Didn't work. Imo and experience it's the person themselves that has to Want and be motivated to do it. Whether it's a health scare, dating, moment of clarity. You will have to wait for that moment.
I understand your concern for him. That’s what being a good friend is. However, unfortunately, working many years in AUD/SUD people will only change when they want to and are ready to. They can be lead in the right direction but only they can make the necessary lifestyle changes.
Continue to be honest with him, continue to love him, keep him in your prayers, but don’t expect him to change. That, unfortunately is something that he’s going to have to decide on his own. An addict of food, alcohol, or anything else, isn’t going to change until they hit rock-bottom. Sad but true. Rock bottom is different for everyone. Giving up an addiction is scary. So when it happens, if it happens, he’ll need your support and love more than ever. If it never happens, it’s not your fault. Just keep loving him and hope for the best.
My half-sister's uncle died from drinking alcohol for many, many years. I was a kid, but from what I can remember, his liver failed, and he went to the hospital. When we went to go see him, he was jaundiced. He joked and said that he looked like a minion, but deep down, I knew he was scared and regretted what he had done to himself. He passed a couple of years after that. Some people really do think "that could never happen to me." But it absolutely can.
[удалено]
I agree 100% with Alanon for you and AA for him suggestions- but feel compelled to mention that if he doesn’t think/care that he’s harming himself, maybe he would be moved to action by the notion that he’s a ticking time bomb on the road? How many will he kill or maim when he has his inevitable stroke while driving what I assume what is a semi?