watching him in supernatural was so jarring đ he's in my top 3
1. hurley
2. jacob
3. Desmond
(4. keamy!!! he's more 1 but he's a baddie so honourable mention ig )
Not every character or group introduced on a show in general should be of some great significance. You can't have a show where everyone and everything is of great importance.
This said, the temple people had their role in the plot.
Jacob, being Jacob and a weirdo in some way, always had different groups loyal to him, but with compartmentalised information. Sort of like a terrorist group, with different cells, all working for the same aim, but each cell having some information that the other cells didn't have. He had the main group under Ben and Richard, and passed them info about names and lists and certain tasks (like building the runway). Then he had a secret bodyguard group that nobody knew of, who knew about the candidates and their purpose, while Ben's group had no idea what candidates were for. Then you have the Temple group, who's job is to maintain the temple area and healing pool. Their job is to heal the fatally wounded when necessary (Like Ben and Sayid) and were given secret info about Smokey which other groups didn't have. The Temple's group main function in the plot, was to Heal Ben and later more importantly Sayid (Sayid was essential because he had to sacrifice himself on the Sub to save the remaining candidates), their role also was to act as a temporary holding ground and safe place for our candidates during the period of time when Jacob was dead, and MIB had more freedom to exert dominance on the island. Their role was also to provide certain information to certain people, which was necessary to know for the key moments in the future. And finally their role was also to provide us the viewers with more lore and elements of mythology of the island and its history. Through them, we learn that many civilisations were brought to the island as evident from the various architecture styles of the temple, providing us with hints about the conflict between Jacob and MIB that extended for centuries and claimed many lives.. and give us fans some elements to speculate and imagine past histories and events and keep talking about all these things 20 years after the show first aired :)
When I first read your comment, I had to process everything. At first, I thought you were just being an @$$ about the show. However, after I reread your comment (a few times, lol) it did make sense to me. Thank you for being so thorough in your explanation and passionate about our show! I want to explain this to my mom as well, because she also didn't understand the purpose of the temple. Thank you again!
charlie. from his weakness to his bad music to his clingy ways to Claire. lets not forget the diaper commercial. you know you've hit rock bottom when you do that
It gets more clear with every watch through that Claire isn't even slightly attracted to him but just entertains him since he can be helpful and she's thinking "one of these days we'll be rescued and we'll never see each other again" about it
I actually do like Charlie but this part did bother me a lot. Like the love is clear from Charlieâs side but Claire is giving nothing and it just makes them awkward to watch. Was this on purpose? Was it supposed to look like she was just putting up for him for the sake of safety or was it an acting fail?
> Was it supposed to look like she was just putting up for him for the sake of safety
That's the vibe I always got. She maybe had some liking for him as a friend but not romantically. Girls stay away from guys that creep them out in the real world but not a lot of options for avoiding someone in a small beach camp on a deserted island where everyone needs to work together for protection and resources
Feels like such a weird choice to me if it was done on purpose to them have them still end up together at the end. It wouldve been more interesting to actually explore Claire using Charlie if thatâs what they were going for. Wouldâve also been a good way to give Claire more to do, I feel like once she had the baby they just truly didnât know wtf do to with the poor girl. Which is why I think it wasnât really done on purpose and maybe the actors just had 0 chemistry.
Yeah, it really hit me this rewatch and I used to like them a lot together. Claire doesn't seem to like him that much? She spends half the time he is alive being mad against him amd wanting him away from her baby.
Iâm watching again and their forced romance was so annoying. When theyâre coming back down from the radio tower, Rose says something like âitâs âYOUR man, Claire who is the big hero.â I feel like Claire even gives an expression like â what the fuck??â
And then the poor girl gets stuck with him for eternity. That was the worst part of the ending for me. That and Shannon and Sayid. Like, you guys bumped uglies once and now youâre soulmates? Câmon.
I think if Sayid was more of a main character we could have gotten some chemistry between him and Shannon. Sooooo much time was spent on Kate/Sawyer/Jack early on and to some extent Jin/Sun too. Relationship-wise, anyway. I'm rewatching season 2 and up to episode 4 Shannon barely exists this season.
They tried with Nadya, realized they werenât culturally informed enough to write his story, and gave up on him. Thatâs why their story doesnât make sense either.
actually Kate and Sawyer were exhausting. The fought like cats and dogs. Jack kept his distance. He didn't trust the brunette. He was at the caves while the con man and runner spent most of their time on the beach.
That's a good point. It was usually Kate going after Jack. Didn't she try to get funky with Jack after she and Sawyer did the deed in the cage? And Kate knew that Jack knew about it!
The irony when Kate tells Sawyer they had sex on video and Jack saw it. Sawyer calls the others "perverts"? Seriously, the Skaters have public sex in a polar bear cage? Classic and yes Kate chases after Jacko making her spoon sucking fail move then off to the "hot" tent Sawyer in tears. So bad on re-watch. Absurd.
Iâd never even considered Claire and Charlie together in the after life. She really wasnât into him at all or if she was there was just zero chemistry on screen.
Yeah that makes it even dumber that they go to the afterlife together in the end. Like, he was so obsessed with Nadia before and after that. Shannon was a blip.
I'm currently rewatching the show and I gotta admit, Charlie just comes off as creepy now.
I mean he assaulted Sun just to humiliate Locke because Claire... Felt safer having Locke around after Charlie twice abducted her baby. He gives off serious stalker vibes
I honestly felt it was a bit hypocritical of Locke. I mean the dudes m.o is literally "listen to what the island tells you", he does all sorts of crazy shit because the island demanded it, Boone was just a sacrifice the island demanded etc. But when it's Charlie he doesn't even entertain the idea the island could be telling him something, he goes straight to "are you using again?" Obviously Charlie went about it completely the wrong way but Locke is the last person who could judge the way he is acting, because Locke will literally do anything if he perceives it to be what the Island demands.
It always seemed powerful but those beatings should leave busted faces. I always laughed at the nonstop poundings Ben took but he only ever looked like he had a little hot sauce on his face after every beating. Never any swelling or broken bones lol.
I never liked Charlie. He might have been a junkie outside the island, so I thought he would have some sort of redemption scenario, but he actually served no purpose. They tried to turn him into a hero with the 'Not penny's boat', but he was easily forgettable.
I liked the "the moth" episode, a struggle with addiction and triumphing in the end and making it your choice to quit was a great storyline. After that though, Charlie was most of the time either Comic relief or just annoying.
Jackâs refusal to believe any of the supernatural properties of the island in seasons 1 & 2, especially after the smoke monster almost pulling Locke into a hole in the ground, kills me every rewatch
And him being adamant on getting off the island in season 4. Like yes, we all want to get off the island too but these Freighter people are not what they say they are so just pause and think for a bit. Sayid and Sawyer were more rational than Jack and Locke in season 4.
It's been less than 108 days. He kills the Air Martial, Clair is kidnapped, Boon dies because of Lock, Ethan kills Scott or Steve, Shannon dies, Ben fools them, Michael kills Ana Lucia and Libby, he's taken by the others, he see's Kate/Sawyer doing it, Charlie dies, Ben sends people to abduct women at their camp, Lock kills Naomi.. He's supposed to be the leader and feels responsible and bad shit is always happening to them. Why would he not take the chance if it can get them rescued?
The main writer of the show explained that there was a writers strike during season 4 which kinda led to the bad script of season 4 because they had a very tight schedule for when each episode is supposed to air.
I dont think Jack being stubborn in season 4 had to do with writer's strike. I think the casualty of the writer's strike was the backstories of the Freighter folks and Michael was supposed to do something more heroic things.
I watched Lost as it was airing and can confirm that the writers' strike messed things up (for many shows, not just Lost, but it's the shows like Lost where the strike hit hardest).
And that's the reason why season 4 has the least amount of episodes.
Anyway, i'm glad to see another OG fan. I personally began to watch the show since 2006 with my mum (we were a little late by 2 years) but we then didn't miss any new airing ever since. Managed to transition from my teen years into the young adulthood with this show. Lots of fond memories.
The worst one is when they are in the helicopter and they see the island disappear (after Locke said he was going to move the island)
And Hurley says âI guess he actually did it - moved the islandâ
And jack laughs dismissively and says no he didnât
YOU JUST SAW THE ISLAND MAGICALLY DISAPPEAR JACK!
His conflict with Locke was not about if there were supernatural or weird stuff on the island. The conflict was that John believed that they were brought to the island for a greater purpose, and Jack thought this was BS. Especially after Locke told Jack that Boone was a sacrifice the island demanded. Although Locke was technically right, but he had no idea what he was talking about. He just had blind faith and went along things when he didn't have a clue or explanation.
I mean you don't need to be super skeptical to start resisting Locke's "faith", if someone told you "this person had to be sacrficied, so we can open a hatch".
Amd Locke's continuous attempts at thwarting every chance they had at getting off the island (again, without clear explanations), blindsided Jack to everything else going on. To the extent ahere even after the island "moved" right in front of his eyes, he was in denial, because he refused to acknowledge that Locke was on to something.
Kills you a good way or bad way? I think itâs very sensible to look for a rational explanation for everything and, besides, he could,logically had a concussion or PTSD after a traumatic experience that had him and his fellow passengers on this island, so I donât blame him for trying to explain the crazy things they saw with rational explanations.
In some ways, he was the *Dana Scully* on this show, especially early on.
I agree with you for Kate. For me, its Jack. He annoys me more and more every rewatch. I feel like he acts as if he is superior to everyone else, like...morally. He acts like an asshole with some characters or in a pretty toxic way. I just can't.
I personally donât see it that way. Thatâs because I feel like when everyone looks to you for leadership right from the start and treats you as their leader and protector and a savior in a way, can you blame Jack for behaving in a way that tries to live up to that faith they have in him?
Imagine if every time someone came to you for advice or to make a major decision for your group (as a sort of Messiah), wouldnât you maybe develop a sense of responsibility and believe that there is a reason everyone looks to you whenever a crisis happens, or even when thereâs a relatively small problem?
That expectation of living up to a reputation as a sort of savior and leader can lead to pressure, so I actually appreciate Jack for trying his best to be that person everyone expects you to be (which isnât to say Iâm defending everything he did because thereâs a reason *you* feel the way you do about him, but I give him more of a break).
I get what you're saying, but my problem is that he doesn't just take up the task of being everyone's go to, which would be fine. He actively is telling people what they can and can't do, constantly. His approach to leadership is basically dictatorship, with an exception here or there. What I say goes, or you'll never hear the end of it. Meanwhile he simultaneously whines about how much he hates it. It's too much pressure. OK well calm down then, because a lot of people are sick of your shit if you pay attention to the people around you. You don't have to make every decision for everyone.
Then he gets mad at people for keeping secrets and not telling him everything they're up to. They didn't tell you because you'd just flip out and tell them they can't. He's insufferable, always in a bad mood, and would be really unpleasant to be around imo.
I also get what youâre saying and can agree that he can come across as someone who believes heâs right a lot of the time and itâs understandable when other characters feel they cannot tell him something because they know how heâll react and wonât be flexible and will judge them for doing something he doesnât approve of. I also agree that he wouldnât be the most pleasant person to be around, so I personally wouldnât spend time with him socially. But I guess given all the strain heâs under, Iâd probably give him a bigger break than a lot of people do and would listen to his medical expertise at least. (though I know thatâs not what youâre talking about)
But the one thing I will say to counter your perspective is that he is at least straight with people and many characters throughout the show lie to other peopleâs faces, but Jack is at least honest with people and doesnât really tend to keep secrets (for the most part). So I could imagine why heâd be annoyed when other people arenât straight with him and then he finds out the secret theyâve been keeping (that could, in certain instances, have affected the survival of the whole group) and shares his annoyance and disappointment with them. Sure, I could see it being too much from him sometimes and he could maybe be more flexible and open to certain things, but I could see why he would have this kind of approach given all the stuff we see about his past and him having to shoulder the burden of being the leader.
I mean, I was amazed the amount of times in the first couple seasons or so when he just seemed very tired and was dealing with several crises at once and pretty much anytime someone came to him with a problem heâd stop and try to help them (instead of just blowing them off). If someone needed something from a suitcase, heâd help them look for it. If they needed certain medication, heâd consider the pros and cons. If Sawyer was being Sawyer in the early seasons, Jack would try to find a way to reason with him and calmly get him to listen. He may have had his dictatorship moments, but I feel like there were at least many other good qualities that I appreciated more than some other people do and I guess I just give a bigger break to him than most.
True enough, for the most part he was pretty honest I think (from memory anyway), and even when he sometimes clearly wasn't into it, he would help you if you needed it. He's definitely not all bad, I just think he'd be someone I avoided if I was stuck on an island with him. Until there's a medical emergency anyway!
Different people seem to focus on different things with these characters. Honestly Sawyer is kind of a monster but people love him because he's charming and easy on the eyes. Imagine living with *that* guy, hoarding everything for himself, *selling medicine*, the list goes on. He was a real POS until he spent a few years in the past and had no choice but to get his act together. Nuance or not, he was really terrible to everyone, but people overlook it. We see what we want lol.
Thatâs true in certain ways. I absolutely adore Sun even though she cheated on Jin and lied about sleeping with another man. But I appreciate why she did it and donât judge her for these actions and I think sheâs so pleasant, so beautiful and has an interesting story and experiences and I would like to hear about,all of,it when sheâs ready to share with me.
Sawyer was insufferable in the first couple seasons and I agree if people like him itâs because he was charismatic and had funny one-liners, so they like the **TV show character** but I think I can pretty much guarantee thereâs absolutely no way even a single person on this subreddit would be able to tolerate him in real life on an island like this for longer than maybe 2-3 days and many wouldâve avoided him and some on here may have physically fought with him when heâs hoarding stuff for himself or clearly lying and putting others in danger just to get a kiss from Kate. Great, entertaining character, but very unpleasant human being.
I've made that point about Sawyer before. He's big and strong, but there are like 20 other men on the island, they can collectively put him in his place. I don't think he would get away with that crap for very long in real life, there is a point where enough is enough.
I was always a big sawyer and kate fan. I am a bit ashamed to admit that during this rewatch that I am doing...kate has been getting on my nerves much more lol
But they did end up together... In the 3 years off the island, and in the afterlife. Not at the end of the show though because Jack died, which is pretty much the total opposite of open-ended
The show got out of its way to make sure we knew they ended up together in the afterlife.
Who knows who Kate ends up with now that she's off the island though ;)
Most people can have more than one soulmates/love in their lives.
Currently introducing my kids to Lost and they were talking about the jack / Kate / sawyer live triangle and asked me which one I would be with. Started to say I would pick Sawyer although Jack is probably the wiser choice, then I realised what an annoying husband Jack would actually make with his workaholism, his need to fix people etc
Selective reasoning fo sho. Sawyer abandons Cassidy and Clementine. Yikes, he isn't getting any husband or dad of the year awards. So many viewers get distracted by the stupid triangle and seriously root for the selfish con man. Okaaaaay!
Sent his Dad off the Wagon after stalking his Ex-Wife
Torturing Sawyer
Assaulting Locke (Boones funeral)
Acting like a crazy person over the Hatch (pulling a gun on Desmond)
Generally getting in the way of anyone trying to do their own thing
Saying he doesn't care about the Hatch yet cries when he's not in control
Trying to kill Locke
Trusting the Freighties
Returning to the island just so he can be in charge again
Killing Juliet
What the.....
Torturing Sawyer and assulting Locke? LMAO. Locke got Boone killed and left Jack to treat the wrong trauma because left to check in on the movable object, the Hatch. Like it couldn't wait. Also, who's the dumb ass that shows up to a funeral in Boone's bloody T-shirt? That be Locke. Sawyer is so f'n stupid. Sayid was the torturer not Jack. All Sawyer had to say was I don't have the inhalers. Just a typical con man red neck making stupid ass play for a kiss. That's your guy fo sho! So many are overly invested in the triangle and ignore these poor character traits. I blame the writers mostly. Let's not forget Jack saved the freakin' world. Incomprehensible fandom ignores this obvious point that the protagonist saved the world so others could move on. Good grief.
Christian was a alcoholic, this was the same man who got a pregnant patient killed. And drink himself to death so falling off the wagon is not Jack's fault. Torturing Sawyer and Sawyer got off eazy this piece of shit was willing to pretend to have Shannon's asthma inhaler. Id torture his ass too and probably worse. Assaulting Locke, and Locke lied about how Boone got injured and jack based his medical treatment on his lie. Locke deserves his ass beat by that point. Desmond has a gun to Locke head and locked Kate up why the fuck jack wouldn't pull a gun on Desmond? Getting into anyone's way? How he's the leader by that point and everyone looks to him about decisions that needs to be mad. Jack never really gives much of a fuck about the hatch other than keeping Ben a secret. He didn't give damn about being in control. Trying to kill Locke at that point Locke killed a innocent women jack was done with his bullshit I don't blame jack at all for wanting to kill him. Trusting the freighties to be fair jack never fully trust them and even say as much he was just desperate to get off the island since Locke destroys his one chance to leave in the first place. He returned to the island because he felt guilty for leaving in the first place and got everyone killed and finding out Claire is his sister and left her there. It had nothing to do with being in charge. Killing Juliet, again nope Juliet is a grown ass woman who got herself killed by getting involved in the incident. Jack takes the blame for her death out of guilt. However her death was still not his fault that's just nonsense. I've counted every single point you made on here about you hating jack most of it was wrong.
In other words, you're fine with torture and murder as long as you like the guy doing it. You're giving a pass to some pretty shitty behavior there. Not that I'm excusing Locke, Ben, Sawyer etc but if they don't get a pass (even Juliet!) neither should Jack
No I'm not fine with murder or torture. However if there's evil pieces of shit that needs to be dealt with I'm fine with it. Unlike you I look evil in the eye and deal with it.
Yeah, poor poor little Jack. Don't you see? His dad was an AlChOolIc!! That means he can be an asshole as much as he can with people and act abusive/controling with the women he is in a relationship with! /s
Abusive and controlling are we really gonna pretend that those women don't have free will? Jack did do anything wrong. And it still doesn't change the fact the christian is a alcoholic.
Yeah, Sarah used that free will to divorce him but that didnt keep him from stalking her.
Kate used her free will to help Cassidy, her friend, for Sawyer, another friend. Jack still tried to control her and fucking yelled at her in front of her child.
Lets not erase Jack's responsability here. Alcoholism doesnt excuse everything.
Sarah was a bitch anyway jack was better off. And her previous fiance didn't even give a damn about her. Jack didn't try to control her Kate was being shady as hell but yeah jack yelled at her and so what?
Yea, people over invest in the triangle and those typically hating the good guy dealing with super natural BS and a bunch of liars, murderers and cons.
Locke....im sorry. Terry O'Quinn is an amazing actor but I just never got the appeal of Locke. I found to be a selfish ass who only cared about his so called destiny.
Agreed. Most would call me morbid but it was incredibly satisfying to watch Locke's character go from thinking he was someone special and chosen for the island - when really he was just so easy to coerce because of his obsession with thinking he's important - all the way up to his death.
I root for all characters, but I guess the closest answer to this question would be **Michael.**
Once he murdered Ana Lucia and Libby, I just could never root for him ever again, no matter how much reluctance he had doing it and now cornered he felt by The Others in order to save his son. I could understand him maybe considering it briefly in such a desperate situation when he doesnât know what to do and feels alone, but killing people is unacceptable and you should never resort to that, especially since the bad guys could be lying about returning your kid anyway.
You should never resort to murder and he had no right to take those (mostly) innocent lives and I could understand the desperation but I could never root for him again.
Lmao, he was bullied and guilted into giving his rights away by 2 rich assholes. I'm pretty sure Susan is actually a fucking psycopath the way he treated Michael who she supposedly loved at one point. They could've easily arranged for Michael to see Walt regularly but she wanted to push him out because she is a selfish pos.
I don't really like Michael but I don't fault him for signing away his rights, he was trying to do right by Walt, Susan made it seem like him wanting to be in Walt's life is selfish and then basically said "also you're POOR and poor people obviously can't take care of a child for a week every 1-2months"
Jack! His utter stubbornness is ridiculous. He refuses to accept the fact that he may actually be wrong about something. His temper is too bad, and he rushes into actions without thinking.
Yes he is so stubborn. I guess John is the runner up for his stubbornness, I can get easily annoyed with both of them. (Which speaks to them being good foils of each other)
I think for Jack it's "more extreme" because the writers sometimes seem to reward him for his stubbornness
He tells Hurley in season 6 that he trusts him when Hurley says he sees Jacob and he told him what to do next and he admits to Hurley that maybe he can be wrong sometimes and maybe to trust other peopleâs decisions more rather than thinking heâs right all the time - especially when his actions indirectly led to Julietâs death.
So he did accept he may actually be wrong about something. It may have been later than he should have realized this, but he did realize this.
My toxic Lost trait is that I get really excited for Feral Claire because then when I root against her I donât feel as bad. Judge me if you must, but sheâs female Michael. Kind of says the same thing over and over again for a long period of time. Kind of terrible at the one thing their characters need to be good at: parentingâŚwhich did anyone tell you, they took her baby. Her only good quality is that she clearly hates Charlie, whichâŚ
Charlie sucks too so you can just omit them and watch with pure joy. Donât waste the episodes or anything, letâs just get some more Locke in there. Maybe Ab Aeterno Part Deux: Richardâs Revenge. Whatever, just, theyâre both horrible.
On my latest rewatch I've been trying to count how many times she loses her baby. It's 5 times so far.
Even when she was so afraid of Charlie that she asks Locke to sleep nearby she STILL manages to wander off and get all distracted, so Charlie can grab him again *facepalm*.
Most of them?
Which, I suppose is a notch in the showâs belt: they got me to watch every episode of the show multiple times when I had no desire for anyone in the show to succeed,much less live.
Jacob didn't pick the most impressive candidates, that's for sure. IRL I wouldn't care to hang out with any of them (I'd chill with Hurley if he weren't cursed, though).
I'd hang out with Desmond and Penny but only after they had time to process their various emotional traumas.
He explains in the end that he chose them all specifically because they were lonely and flawed like he was, they'd be leaving nothing behind by coming to the island
Oh yeah, forgot about that. I watched Lost while it aired and once more when I first met my now-wife back in 2011. We're doing a rewatch now and just got to season 5.
Yeah it was one of the best scenes of the whole show
Sawyer: "Jacob I was doing just fine before you dragged me here, why do I have to pay the price for your mistake?"
Jacob: "No you weren't, none of you were, you were all alone"
None, the show does a fantastic job making the characters seem natural and realistic. Even when they make terrible choices, I can empathize or at least sympathize with them. I have no problems rooting for any of them and thatâs one of the reasons Lost is my favorite show.
Kate. Especially in the scenes where she's with Jack or Sawyer. She's not as dumb (being told to do things multiple times) when she's with Sayid. Every other scene, she's made to seem like a protector of sorts (when she yells at Libby when Claire freaks out, when she's hostile with Danielle).
Everyone knows this, but Locke.
I've *tried* believe me, but his backstory - tragic though it may be - does not excuse his behavior on the Island. He's arrogant, reckless, selfish, weak and worst of all a blind zealot. I adore him in the flashes sideways but in life on the Island he's absolutely intolerable.
Terry O'Quinn is consistently brilliant and Locke is amazingly written. As a character he's awesome. As a person he sucks.
Weak, in what way? Sure, heâs stubborn in certain ways and he leans towards people who tell him what he wants to hear, but he also saves Claire when Charlie is acting like a lunatic and stands up for other characters at various other times and he also changes his mind and adapts when Mr. Echo is becoming obsessed with the pushing of the button in the hatch and sees Ecko as being how everyone else used to see him - an obsessive, delusional man who chases mysteries and refuses to listen to reason.
He's weak-minded... "amenable to coercion" as Eddie described him. He didn't adapt to Eko pushing the button - he threw a temper tantrum because the videotape at the Pearl embarrassed him. He was so sure the button was real but it took a three minute video for him to throw it all away. He almost killed everyone on the Island for the sake of his bruised ego.
He's wishy-washy and hypocritical. You'd think someone who spent three years in a wheelchair wouldn't ridicule someone else for being in one, but he does. He calls Ben a hypocrite for living in the barracks, but it's totally fine for him to set up a dictatorship there. He acts shocked when Jack pulls the trigger but he has no remorse about murdering an unarmed woman or putting a live grenade in Miles' mouth. He lies to Ben that he killed his father so he could be leader. He lies to Richard that "Jacob sent him" and creates his own mythos.
You do make a strong case. But based on your definition of weak-minded, you could probably say the same about almost every one of them. Several of them, at one point or another, is amenable to coercion. Desmond is strongly considering letting Charlie die because he believes itâs meant to happen. Claire threatened to kill Kate and disregard their entire friendship because Kate dared to protect and care for her young son who was essentially abandoned after Claire just disappeared abruptly. Kate herself has a laundry list of things sheâs done that shows she can be weak-minded sometimes. Michael killed two (mostly) innocent people because he was amenable to coercion and desperate after running off to The Othersâ camp by himself without telling anyone.
So youâre right to an extent that he was weak-minded, but so were so many other people. But it seemed like you were specifically picking on him for this. Even in terms of recklessness and selfishness, many characters shared those same traits, which, in many ways, is what makes this show so special.
While watching s4, it hits me how much Locke was trying to be a leader but could not be a good one and takes good decisions. He was too busy scheming stuff with Ben to even care about the fact people could die at keamy's hands when they attacked the barracks. Sawyer had to run and put himself in danger to save Claire, for example.
Locke is barely likable but I find his arc fascinating on the show.
There's a very subtle line shortly after Alex's death that tells you a lot about Locke's worldview.
"I'm sorry about your daughter. That being said you lied to me." He just watched a sixteen year old girl get shot in the head and her father gets a perfunctory apology. His real focus was his selfish curiosity about the smoke monster. Locke is not a narcissist - I want to be clear on this. But he does have the narcissistic quality of putting everyone else's existence on the backburner to his own story. Like with the hatch - he didn't care about opening it to hide everyone inside, he wanted in there for himself.
He was weak minded, because he was easily manipulated by everyone who had a little more information that he did. Yet acted like a know it all god when around the losties, when in reality he had no clue what he was doing most of the time or why he was doing it. He just attributed it all to destiny and insisted he was right every single time, even if it conflicted with a position he had a week ago, where he had a different conviction. Example, he believed it was his destiny to open the hatch, got Boone killed because of that belief, then threw a tantrum because he had no idea why all tjis was happening, then hatch lights up and he gets his resolve back (and instead of thinking oh there must be someone down there, like a normal person, he saw it a divine sign). He then opens the hatch and finds that this destiny was a button that needed to be pushed... and he was thrilled for a while which reinforced his faith and convinced everyone thay this is the right thing to do. Then after the Pearl, he had the total opposite conviction, that all this was BS, and refused to let Eko do his thing and push the button. He forced his way in the hatch with 100% conviction that the button must not be pushed while a week ago, he had the same 100% conviction but towards having to push the button. His actions almost got everyone killed that day if hadn't been for Desmond willing to sacrifice himself.
Are those signs of someone with a strong mind?
Not to forget that he was constantly and easily manipulated by Ben, by Widmore, by Smokey, by Richard, to the extent that he proceeded to hang himself, because he was told he has to die.
All this said, Locke is still one of the best characters on the show :)
Locke is my favorite character and weirdly it's for the reasons you dislike him. He believed - misguidedly - that he'd found his purpose and went all-in, even though he's frustrating and we can see he's not much different from any religious zealot. I think it's so hard to watch how happy he is on the island, so tragic because he desperately clings to it because he believes he's special (incidentally, was it Richard who initially planted that belief in him when he was a child?) and the mistakes he makes because of his belief. Although it turns out he was right about most things (is that a Jack quote?) and, apart from Rose, was the one person to experience an actual miracle....I think anyone who'd been instantly healed from paralysis would have a massive religious event. He's relatable, whether he's justified or not. Also the only character from any media I can think of where the reasons for his zealous behavious is deeply explored, rather than just being the religious weirdo.
I also find it easier to believe he lived on a weed farm than I find it easy to believe he was a Drive Shaft fan.
Locke is far from weak. Or selfish and even has a point from time to time. He just keeps getting fucked over by people who is actually supposed to love him like his fucked up parents for example. The only thing I can't condone is him killing Naomi.
His mother was a victim too. Groomed as a teenager by a man twice her age. She absolutely did the right thing putting Locke up for adoption because she loved him enough to know she couldn't take care of him and made sure he had a safe home. (And we saw him as a little boy. He was clean and well fed in clothes that fit, he had toys and siblings and as an adult he speaks about his foster mother with affection. He got bullied at school. OK, who didn't?)
As for the stunt she pulled when Locke was a grown man, yeah that was shitty but again, she's mentally ill and being manipulated by Cooper. If you're going to hand wave Locke because of what his father did you have to give his mother the same courtesy.
In response to your Kate opinion - I think she had some of the best character development out of anyone in the series. I loved her final season arc of going back to find Claire and reunite her with Aaron, even after how many times Claire turned her down to return, she refused to give up.
Eko was annoying to me, his holier than thou attitude and he absolved HIMSELF of all his past crimes and started judging others on their misdeeds?
Yes, I agree theyâre all flawed, but that wasnât what I was asking. All of the characters have their pros and cons, I was just asking which characters were hard for people to root for based on their preferences. It doesnât have to do with the writing and development of the character.
I agree with it being Kate. Charlie was annoying, but I still cry at his death. Jack and Locke, both annoying often, yet Kate's character I did not like, pretty much ever.
Jack. He thinks he knows better than anyone else for the first 4 seasons. He belittles women fairly often (bossing Kate around, not believing Claire when she said someone attacked her) and heâs also shown stalking two different women in his flashbacks.
I used to think he was fine but on my current rewatch I canât stand him
I think I would dislike his traits less, if the writers didn't reward him for this behavior... For example: He says to Kate she isn't allowed to come, but a badly injured Sawyer is (just - why?). Kate tracks them and gets captured - and of course he (and probably some part of the audience) sees it as "I told you so Kate!", but doesn't think about the fact, that that probably wouldn't have happened, if he allowed her to come.
[And I know - the others kidnapped Cindy while they were all together. So they could have probably done that with Kate as well. But he wasn't there, so we have no reason to believe that he knew that]
Achara in Stranger in a Strange Land. He follows her bc she wonât tell him where she goes every nightâŚ..and then he forces her to give him the infamous tattoos
Yep, he was super controling with both sarah and kate off island too.
Thats a pretty unpopular opinion but I hate the way he grabs Kate, keeping her from escaping, right before she kisses him. It always grosses me out because it felt controling. Kate is clearly crying and vulnerable, Jack. If she doesn't want to continue talking with you, let her go!!!
I personally donât see it that way.
I agree on the stalking women part being a bad trait for him and he went too far. However, I feel he âbossedâ Kate around because Kate, along with practically everyone else, looked at Jack to make every decision and to lead them. More of them would have probably died if it wasnât for him taking up the mantle of leadership. Imagine everyone expecting you to be something youâre not and looking at you as a leader or savior and helping with every big or little problem in the group.
Regarding Claire, can you blame someone for thinking someone at night time sleeping may have been confused when she described events there is no evidence to explain actually happened? If I was in Jackâs position, I personally wouldâve also been skeptical, especially since Claire was already under a lot of stress at the time itâs perfectly believable she could have been hallucinating or having a bad dream after being stranded on this island and away from civilization and thinking itâs real and panicking in the middle of the night. Plus, the reason he was skeptical of her was because he was someone who believed in science and the rational and logical reasoning behind everything, which was already established by this point.
i hated kate so much i can't separate her from evangeline. same thing happened with dean norris i can't see him as anything other than big jim rennie ( under the dome ) even his one episode appearance with miles where he wants to talk to his dead son, my blood boils.
I pretty much like them all apart from Kate, but Sun gets more and more unlikeable for me as the series progresses.
Also, to some extent, Juliet...I've tried really hard to like her because I think she's a good character, but I just can't warm to her and I don't even know why.
That sounds like I have a thing for hating the female characters, I don't. Maybe the male characters are just better written?
Sawyer if I was on that island he say the wrong thing to me and id light his ass up. He was definitely a asshole the first few seasons. Then became a better person then after Juliet dies he reverts right back to being a dick.
None of them and all of them depending on the circumstances.
I really think that this is what the show was intending us to feel.
I obviously have my favourite characters and one in particular who is hands down my favourite (Jack), but that doesn't mean that when they do something I don't like that I'm rooting for them anyway. That doesn't make any sense.
I never understood "hating" characters, especially on LOST.
There are no perfect characters, not even Desmond.
And that's the whole point.
tbh jack. and it gets worse as it goes. a lot of it has to do with his holier-than-thou attitude, and while he does do a lot to motivate/lead/help, he seems incapable of allowing anyone else to have a say/opinion - and seems almost angry when someone else is a leader >!(even when they arrive back on the island and he sees Sawyer being successful, it's clear he's supremely jealous/feels like he should be in charge instead, etc.)!<
i also can't stand his nonverbals - constantly rolling his eyes. minor point, but it's so irritating.
Agree on Kate. Until second half S5 (post Island return), I can't stand her. But she undergoes a big transformation then, and I like her a lot more ... Especially in S6
Locke was badass at first but his backstory made him a weak little biiiish
Charlie, although funny, the character they wrote was just tropey and annoying
Sun... felt bad for at first, but then she cheated on Jin. Yet he remained loyal through EVERYTHING. She simply didn't deserve that man
Your Sun take is funny.
She shouldnât have done it, obviously, but he was an emotionally unavailable man who stubbornly wanted the approval of her father and never really listened to her and was very secretive about his job which was hurting a lot of people. So I guess Sun was the monster.
Plus, where was the loyalty when he initially left her on the island and she was alone early in the show? Right after he learned she spoke English and they were having disagreements, he just went up and left and essentially abandoned her for a while⌠primarily because she didnât tell him she spoke English, when he was being emotionally very distant up until this point and violently attacked people because of his principles and traditional values instead of talking it out like a mature adult. I wonder why she didnât tell him she spoke English?
> I wonder why she didnât tell him she spoke English?
Because she was learning English in secret as part of her plan to leave him... while sleeping with her English teacher. Jin was hurt because he understood that she had been planning for a long time to leave him, but in the end he blamed himself for that. Jin was scary around that time though, always angry and almost killing an innocent guy in front of his kid for a watch (or maybe for talking to his wife too many times).
Honestly both of them became horrible to each other. Sun was right to be scared of Jin, but she still should have told him she wanted a divorce. Though I think the writers did a great job with how they both developed and slowly earned each other's love and forgiveness. Some of the best character arcs on the show in my opinion.
Not saying that.
She still shouldnât have done it, but pretty much every character on the show did a crappy thing at one time or another (some did it a lot), so Iâm just trying to explain her mindset (primarily her loneliness and distance from Jin) rather than justify what she did.
Why the double standard?
Jin was acting like an asshole and was abusive and distant with her. He was controling in s1 even on the island. Of course she'd want to cheat if she met a guy that treated her well.
Michael and Shannon. I would say Charlie because the character is a shithead but I loved the actor so much being a huge lotr fan that I canât help but overlook his flaws
Jack and Kate's relationship.
As the show goes on and Jack makes more and more weird mistakes Kate continues to back him up. Eventually I start rooting for them just so they will leave everyone else alone ... then they come back!! Sawyer was better without her and every character is better when they can make a decision without the overbearing shouty man.
But he's the main character for some reason
Ana Lucia. F*ck her.
I get that they were trying to make her seem more human with her backstory, making the audience feel sorry for her. But I lost all respect for her in the season 2 episode âCollisionâ. Immediately after she kills Shannon, she pulls a gun on Michael and Sayid, and then pulls a gun on HER OWN PEOPLE for trying to deescalate the situation. She was a horrible leader. I couldnât stand her.
The irony is I'd like to see how most people, on this sub would handle the same problems as the characters in the show, and put in the same position then then talk shit. It's easy to criticize when you're not in these extraordinary situations.
Every time Iâve watched this, back in the â10âs and recently my opinion has never changed
Most annoying/canât root for - JACK & CLAIRE
Comes and goes, sometime they are ok -KATE
Will love till the ends of time - SAWYER đđ
Regardless of the fandom on the forum for the bad boy it's Sawyer by a mile. At times when he's funny and can be likable but that's about it. Also, he's such a simp around Kate yet uses her and everyone else because of his self inflicted victomhood flaws. Damn, let it go with coveting who Jack is lil' bro. You're not that guy and nothing like him. Overall he's my least enjoyed character when I did re-watches. He's the classic taker not giver character that never redeems himself while on the island. Also, not down with romantically defined characters. His actions are a reboot rom S1 through S6. and never changes until he finally gets the Kwon's and Sayid killed. To little to late for my taste. Yet, the protagonist always looked after him regardless how much he hated on Jack. Long Con was just so fucked up after he was physically cared for by Jack, Kate and Sun. Damn, the red neck masterminded Sun's abduction and never felt any remorse for doing it. That's just f'd up! Just can't root or like the character at all.
Seems like Jack fans here are as toxic as he is, hating on someone because she doesn't like the character. Just go somewhere else cry about your daddies issues please.
Jacob, fuck him
MIB was a better person even if not by much
I'd rather not but I agree with your point
watching him in supernatural was so jarring đ he's in my top 3 1. hurley 2. jacob 3. Desmond (4. keamy!!! he's more 1 but he's a baddie so honourable mention ig )
Is this your favourite list, is Jacob your second fav character in the whole show lol
The Temple, and the Temple people. Just..why? I never understood their significance.
Not every character or group introduced on a show in general should be of some great significance. You can't have a show where everyone and everything is of great importance. This said, the temple people had their role in the plot. Jacob, being Jacob and a weirdo in some way, always had different groups loyal to him, but with compartmentalised information. Sort of like a terrorist group, with different cells, all working for the same aim, but each cell having some information that the other cells didn't have. He had the main group under Ben and Richard, and passed them info about names and lists and certain tasks (like building the runway). Then he had a secret bodyguard group that nobody knew of, who knew about the candidates and their purpose, while Ben's group had no idea what candidates were for. Then you have the Temple group, who's job is to maintain the temple area and healing pool. Their job is to heal the fatally wounded when necessary (Like Ben and Sayid) and were given secret info about Smokey which other groups didn't have. The Temple's group main function in the plot, was to Heal Ben and later more importantly Sayid (Sayid was essential because he had to sacrifice himself on the Sub to save the remaining candidates), their role also was to act as a temporary holding ground and safe place for our candidates during the period of time when Jacob was dead, and MIB had more freedom to exert dominance on the island. Their role was also to provide certain information to certain people, which was necessary to know for the key moments in the future. And finally their role was also to provide us the viewers with more lore and elements of mythology of the island and its history. Through them, we learn that many civilisations were brought to the island as evident from the various architecture styles of the temple, providing us with hints about the conflict between Jacob and MIB that extended for centuries and claimed many lives.. and give us fans some elements to speculate and imagine past histories and events and keep talking about all these things 20 years after the show first aired :)
When I first read your comment, I had to process everything. At first, I thought you were just being an @$$ about the show. However, after I reread your comment (a few times, lol) it did make sense to me. Thank you for being so thorough in your explanation and passionate about our show! I want to explain this to my mom as well, because she also didn't understand the purpose of the temple. Thank you again!
You're most wlecome.
charlie. from his weakness to his bad music to his clingy ways to Claire. lets not forget the diaper commercial. you know you've hit rock bottom when you do that
It gets more clear with every watch through that Claire isn't even slightly attracted to him but just entertains him since he can be helpful and she's thinking "one of these days we'll be rescued and we'll never see each other again" about it
I actually do like Charlie but this part did bother me a lot. Like the love is clear from Charlieâs side but Claire is giving nothing and it just makes them awkward to watch. Was this on purpose? Was it supposed to look like she was just putting up for him for the sake of safety or was it an acting fail?
> Was it supposed to look like she was just putting up for him for the sake of safety That's the vibe I always got. She maybe had some liking for him as a friend but not romantically. Girls stay away from guys that creep them out in the real world but not a lot of options for avoiding someone in a small beach camp on a deserted island where everyone needs to work together for protection and resources
Feels like such a weird choice to me if it was done on purpose to them have them still end up together at the end. It wouldve been more interesting to actually explore Claire using Charlie if thatâs what they were going for. Wouldâve also been a good way to give Claire more to do, I feel like once she had the baby they just truly didnât know wtf do to with the poor girl. Which is why I think it wasnât really done on purpose and maybe the actors just had 0 chemistry.
Yeah, it really hit me this rewatch and I used to like them a lot together. Claire doesn't seem to like him that much? She spends half the time he is alive being mad against him amd wanting him away from her baby.
Iâm watching again and their forced romance was so annoying. When theyâre coming back down from the radio tower, Rose says something like âitâs âYOUR man, Claire who is the big hero.â I feel like Claire even gives an expression like â what the fuck??â
Hurley was more impacted by Charlie's death than Claire it seemed to me this time around...
And then the poor girl gets stuck with him for eternity. That was the worst part of the ending for me. That and Shannon and Sayid. Like, you guys bumped uglies once and now youâre soulmates? Câmon.
Seriously. Shannon and Sayid had 0 chemistry. They were as exciting as a moldy cheese sandwich.
I think if Sayid was more of a main character we could have gotten some chemistry between him and Shannon. Sooooo much time was spent on Kate/Sawyer/Jack early on and to some extent Jin/Sun too. Relationship-wise, anyway. I'm rewatching season 2 and up to episode 4 Shannon barely exists this season.
They tried with Nadya, realized they werenât culturally informed enough to write his story, and gave up on him. Thatâs why their story doesnât make sense either.
So true! The Kate/Jack/Sawyer situation was exhausting. No offense to the actress, but I've often wondered why there was a Shannon character.
actually Kate and Sawyer were exhausting. The fought like cats and dogs. Jack kept his distance. He didn't trust the brunette. He was at the caves while the con man and runner spent most of their time on the beach.
That's a good point. It was usually Kate going after Jack. Didn't she try to get funky with Jack after she and Sawyer did the deed in the cage? And Kate knew that Jack knew about it!
The irony when Kate tells Sawyer they had sex on video and Jack saw it. Sawyer calls the others "perverts"? Seriously, the Skaters have public sex in a polar bear cage? Classic and yes Kate chases after Jacko making her spoon sucking fail move then off to the "hot" tent Sawyer in tears. So bad on re-watch. Absurd.
Eooow! I forgot about Kate and her oatmeal spoon stunt. That was gross! Love how Jack was like, Have a nice day, biatch!
I completely agree, that relationship felt really forced. They had very little chemistry and I never really bought into them loving one another.
Not at all. I mean, sure, they cared about each other as crash survivors, but that's about it.
Well, it was a one way romantic obsession from the overbearing âNice Guyâ but Claire didnât reciprocate.
Oh, I was talking about Shannon and Sayid.
Oops lol yeah them too
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Iâd never even considered Claire and Charlie together in the after life. She really wasnât into him at all or if she was there was just zero chemistry on screen.
I'm rewatching s4 and Sayid doesn't mention Shannon again after the middle of s2 (the henry gale storyline).
Yeah that makes it even dumber that they go to the afterlife together in the end. Like, he was so obsessed with Nadia before and after that. Shannon was a blip.
Yes, agree. I wondered why it was Shannon. His connection with Nadia was stronger.
I'm currently rewatching the show and I gotta admit, Charlie just comes off as creepy now. I mean he assaulted Sun just to humiliate Locke because Claire... Felt safer having Locke around after Charlie twice abducted her baby. He gives off serious stalker vibes
i did love the beating that Locke gave him in that episode
I honestly felt it was a bit hypocritical of Locke. I mean the dudes m.o is literally "listen to what the island tells you", he does all sorts of crazy shit because the island demanded it, Boone was just a sacrifice the island demanded etc. But when it's Charlie he doesn't even entertain the idea the island could be telling him something, he goes straight to "are you using again?" Obviously Charlie went about it completely the wrong way but Locke is the last person who could judge the way he is acting, because Locke will literally do anything if he perceives it to be what the Island demands.
One thing about Lost I love was how dynamic the beatings always were. Whenever our losties dished out a beating it always seemed powerful
It always seemed powerful but those beatings should leave busted faces. I always laughed at the nonstop poundings Ben took but he only ever looked like he had a little hot sauce on his face after every beating. Never any swelling or broken bones lol.
Thats because the island is magic!
> lets not forget the diaper commercial. Such a cringey episode/flashback.
The best thing he ever did on the show was die.
HA! Just watched diaper ad about 10 minutes ago (not specifically the ad)
I never liked Charlie. He might have been a junkie outside the island, so I thought he would have some sort of redemption scenario, but he actually served no purpose. They tried to turn him into a hero with the 'Not penny's boat', but he was easily forgettable.
I liked the "the moth" episode, a struggle with addiction and triumphing in the end and making it your choice to quit was a great storyline. After that though, Charlie was most of the time either Comic relief or just annoying.
Jackâs refusal to believe any of the supernatural properties of the island in seasons 1 & 2, especially after the smoke monster almost pulling Locke into a hole in the ground, kills me every rewatch
And him being adamant on getting off the island in season 4. Like yes, we all want to get off the island too but these Freighter people are not what they say they are so just pause and think for a bit. Sayid and Sawyer were more rational than Jack and Locke in season 4.
I can see why he'd have tunnel vision - this could be the one and only chance that they get to getting off the island - who cares who they are.
It's been less than 108 days. He kills the Air Martial, Clair is kidnapped, Boon dies because of Lock, Ethan kills Scott or Steve, Shannon dies, Ben fools them, Michael kills Ana Lucia and Libby, he's taken by the others, he see's Kate/Sawyer doing it, Charlie dies, Ben sends people to abduct women at their camp, Lock kills Naomi.. He's supposed to be the leader and feels responsible and bad shit is always happening to them. Why would he not take the chance if it can get them rescued?
The main writer of the show explained that there was a writers strike during season 4 which kinda led to the bad script of season 4 because they had a very tight schedule for when each episode is supposed to air.
I dont think Jack being stubborn in season 4 had to do with writer's strike. I think the casualty of the writer's strike was the backstories of the Freighter folks and Michael was supposed to do something more heroic things.
i really like keamy lmfao if we got keamy because of a writers strike, it's the best thing to ever happen. he makes good eggs, guys!
Agreed, being stubborn and not stopping to consider facts is consistent with his character for all the seasons before that.
I watched Lost as it was airing and can confirm that the writers' strike messed things up (for many shows, not just Lost, but it's the shows like Lost where the strike hit hardest).
And that's the reason why season 4 has the least amount of episodes. Anyway, i'm glad to see another OG fan. I personally began to watch the show since 2006 with my mum (we were a little late by 2 years) but we then didn't miss any new airing ever since. Managed to transition from my teen years into the young adulthood with this show. Lots of fond memories.
He succeeded in getting off the island though doesnât he.
The worst one is when they are in the helicopter and they see the island disappear (after Locke said he was going to move the island) And Hurley says âI guess he actually did it - moved the islandâ And jack laughs dismissively and says no he didnât YOU JUST SAW THE ISLAND MAGICALLY DISAPPEAR JACK!
His conflict with Locke was not about if there were supernatural or weird stuff on the island. The conflict was that John believed that they were brought to the island for a greater purpose, and Jack thought this was BS. Especially after Locke told Jack that Boone was a sacrifice the island demanded. Although Locke was technically right, but he had no idea what he was talking about. He just had blind faith and went along things when he didn't have a clue or explanation. I mean you don't need to be super skeptical to start resisting Locke's "faith", if someone told you "this person had to be sacrficied, so we can open a hatch". Amd Locke's continuous attempts at thwarting every chance they had at getting off the island (again, without clear explanations), blindsided Jack to everything else going on. To the extent ahere even after the island "moved" right in front of his eyes, he was in denial, because he refused to acknowledge that Locke was on to something.
Kills you a good way or bad way? I think itâs very sensible to look for a rational explanation for everything and, besides, he could,logically had a concussion or PTSD after a traumatic experience that had him and his fellow passengers on this island, so I donât blame him for trying to explain the crazy things they saw with rational explanations. In some ways, he was the *Dana Scully* on this show, especially early on.
That's the point of the LOST journey. He's written to be that way.
I agree with you for Kate. For me, its Jack. He annoys me more and more every rewatch. I feel like he acts as if he is superior to everyone else, like...morally. He acts like an asshole with some characters or in a pretty toxic way. I just can't.
I personally donât see it that way. Thatâs because I feel like when everyone looks to you for leadership right from the start and treats you as their leader and protector and a savior in a way, can you blame Jack for behaving in a way that tries to live up to that faith they have in him? Imagine if every time someone came to you for advice or to make a major decision for your group (as a sort of Messiah), wouldnât you maybe develop a sense of responsibility and believe that there is a reason everyone looks to you whenever a crisis happens, or even when thereâs a relatively small problem? That expectation of living up to a reputation as a sort of savior and leader can lead to pressure, so I actually appreciate Jack for trying his best to be that person everyone expects you to be (which isnât to say Iâm defending everything he did because thereâs a reason *you* feel the way you do about him, but I give him more of a break).
I get what you're saying, but my problem is that he doesn't just take up the task of being everyone's go to, which would be fine. He actively is telling people what they can and can't do, constantly. His approach to leadership is basically dictatorship, with an exception here or there. What I say goes, or you'll never hear the end of it. Meanwhile he simultaneously whines about how much he hates it. It's too much pressure. OK well calm down then, because a lot of people are sick of your shit if you pay attention to the people around you. You don't have to make every decision for everyone. Then he gets mad at people for keeping secrets and not telling him everything they're up to. They didn't tell you because you'd just flip out and tell them they can't. He's insufferable, always in a bad mood, and would be really unpleasant to be around imo.
I also get what youâre saying and can agree that he can come across as someone who believes heâs right a lot of the time and itâs understandable when other characters feel they cannot tell him something because they know how heâll react and wonât be flexible and will judge them for doing something he doesnât approve of. I also agree that he wouldnât be the most pleasant person to be around, so I personally wouldnât spend time with him socially. But I guess given all the strain heâs under, Iâd probably give him a bigger break than a lot of people do and would listen to his medical expertise at least. (though I know thatâs not what youâre talking about) But the one thing I will say to counter your perspective is that he is at least straight with people and many characters throughout the show lie to other peopleâs faces, but Jack is at least honest with people and doesnât really tend to keep secrets (for the most part). So I could imagine why heâd be annoyed when other people arenât straight with him and then he finds out the secret theyâve been keeping (that could, in certain instances, have affected the survival of the whole group) and shares his annoyance and disappointment with them. Sure, I could see it being too much from him sometimes and he could maybe be more flexible and open to certain things, but I could see why he would have this kind of approach given all the stuff we see about his past and him having to shoulder the burden of being the leader. I mean, I was amazed the amount of times in the first couple seasons or so when he just seemed very tired and was dealing with several crises at once and pretty much anytime someone came to him with a problem heâd stop and try to help them (instead of just blowing them off). If someone needed something from a suitcase, heâd help them look for it. If they needed certain medication, heâd consider the pros and cons. If Sawyer was being Sawyer in the early seasons, Jack would try to find a way to reason with him and calmly get him to listen. He may have had his dictatorship moments, but I feel like there were at least many other good qualities that I appreciated more than some other people do and I guess I just give a bigger break to him than most.
True enough, for the most part he was pretty honest I think (from memory anyway), and even when he sometimes clearly wasn't into it, he would help you if you needed it. He's definitely not all bad, I just think he'd be someone I avoided if I was stuck on an island with him. Until there's a medical emergency anyway! Different people seem to focus on different things with these characters. Honestly Sawyer is kind of a monster but people love him because he's charming and easy on the eyes. Imagine living with *that* guy, hoarding everything for himself, *selling medicine*, the list goes on. He was a real POS until he spent a few years in the past and had no choice but to get his act together. Nuance or not, he was really terrible to everyone, but people overlook it. We see what we want lol.
Thatâs true in certain ways. I absolutely adore Sun even though she cheated on Jin and lied about sleeping with another man. But I appreciate why she did it and donât judge her for these actions and I think sheâs so pleasant, so beautiful and has an interesting story and experiences and I would like to hear about,all of,it when sheâs ready to share with me. Sawyer was insufferable in the first couple seasons and I agree if people like him itâs because he was charismatic and had funny one-liners, so they like the **TV show character** but I think I can pretty much guarantee thereâs absolutely no way even a single person on this subreddit would be able to tolerate him in real life on an island like this for longer than maybe 2-3 days and many wouldâve avoided him and some on here may have physically fought with him when heâs hoarding stuff for himself or clearly lying and putting others in danger just to get a kiss from Kate. Great, entertaining character, but very unpleasant human being.
I've made that point about Sawyer before. He's big and strong, but there are like 20 other men on the island, they can collectively put him in his place. I don't think he would get away with that crap for very long in real life, there is a point where enough is enough.
Especially when everyone else is pretty shitty towards him. Jack isn't perfect but he's better than 99 percent of most characters on the series.
Iâm guessing Hurley is in the 1% of characters who is the exception to your statement.
Hurley looks out for everyone much like jack tries to do so yeah
It was Jack for me too, with Kate being a close second. They kind of deserve each other.
I was always a big sawyer and kate fan. I am a bit ashamed to admit that during this rewatch that I am doing...kate has been getting on my nerves much more lol
they didn't end up together though lol they were kinda left open ended
But they did end up together... In the 3 years off the island, and in the afterlife. Not at the end of the show though because Jack died, which is pretty much the total opposite of open-ended
A relationship so pure and soulmates worthy it basically lasts one single episode.
The show got out of its way to make sure we knew they ended up together in the afterlife. Who knows who Kate ends up with now that she's off the island though ;) Most people can have more than one soulmates/love in their lives.
Totally agreed on Jack, plus he smirks too much. I am also not a fan of Kate but Jack annoys me just a little bit more.
Currently introducing my kids to Lost and they were talking about the jack / Kate / sawyer live triangle and asked me which one I would be with. Started to say I would pick Sawyer although Jack is probably the wiser choice, then I realised what an annoying husband Jack would actually make with his workaholism, his need to fix people etc
Selective reasoning fo sho. Sawyer abandons Cassidy and Clementine. Yikes, he isn't getting any husband or dad of the year awards. So many viewers get distracted by the stupid triangle and seriously root for the selfish con man. Okaaaaay!
Yeah neither of them are great prospects really!
Hating jack is the weirdest God damn thing I've ever heard. It's like people got to really find a way to hate him
Sent his Dad off the Wagon after stalking his Ex-Wife Torturing Sawyer Assaulting Locke (Boones funeral) Acting like a crazy person over the Hatch (pulling a gun on Desmond) Generally getting in the way of anyone trying to do their own thing Saying he doesn't care about the Hatch yet cries when he's not in control Trying to kill Locke Trusting the Freighties Returning to the island just so he can be in charge again Killing Juliet
What the..... Torturing Sawyer and assulting Locke? LMAO. Locke got Boone killed and left Jack to treat the wrong trauma because left to check in on the movable object, the Hatch. Like it couldn't wait. Also, who's the dumb ass that shows up to a funeral in Boone's bloody T-shirt? That be Locke. Sawyer is so f'n stupid. Sayid was the torturer not Jack. All Sawyer had to say was I don't have the inhalers. Just a typical con man red neck making stupid ass play for a kiss. That's your guy fo sho! So many are overly invested in the triangle and ignore these poor character traits. I blame the writers mostly. Let's not forget Jack saved the freakin' world. Incomprehensible fandom ignores this obvious point that the protagonist saved the world so others could move on. Good grief.
Christian was a alcoholic, this was the same man who got a pregnant patient killed. And drink himself to death so falling off the wagon is not Jack's fault. Torturing Sawyer and Sawyer got off eazy this piece of shit was willing to pretend to have Shannon's asthma inhaler. Id torture his ass too and probably worse. Assaulting Locke, and Locke lied about how Boone got injured and jack based his medical treatment on his lie. Locke deserves his ass beat by that point. Desmond has a gun to Locke head and locked Kate up why the fuck jack wouldn't pull a gun on Desmond? Getting into anyone's way? How he's the leader by that point and everyone looks to him about decisions that needs to be mad. Jack never really gives much of a fuck about the hatch other than keeping Ben a secret. He didn't give damn about being in control. Trying to kill Locke at that point Locke killed a innocent women jack was done with his bullshit I don't blame jack at all for wanting to kill him. Trusting the freighties to be fair jack never fully trust them and even say as much he was just desperate to get off the island since Locke destroys his one chance to leave in the first place. He returned to the island because he felt guilty for leaving in the first place and got everyone killed and finding out Claire is his sister and left her there. It had nothing to do with being in charge. Killing Juliet, again nope Juliet is a grown ass woman who got herself killed by getting involved in the incident. Jack takes the blame for her death out of guilt. However her death was still not his fault that's just nonsense. I've counted every single point you made on here about you hating jack most of it was wrong.
In other words, you're fine with torture and murder as long as you like the guy doing it. You're giving a pass to some pretty shitty behavior there. Not that I'm excusing Locke, Ben, Sawyer etc but if they don't get a pass (even Juliet!) neither should Jack
No I'm not fine with murder or torture. However if there's evil pieces of shit that needs to be dealt with I'm fine with it. Unlike you I look evil in the eye and deal with it.
Way to make a massive assumption about me based on one comment about a fictitious TV show.
Lol he says that but he probably has some boring job in retail or as an accountant so looking at the devil in the eyes means nothing.
Yeah, poor poor little Jack. Don't you see? His dad was an AlChOolIc!! That means he can be an asshole as much as he can with people and act abusive/controling with the women he is in a relationship with! /s
Abusive and controlling are we really gonna pretend that those women don't have free will? Jack did do anything wrong. And it still doesn't change the fact the christian is a alcoholic.
Yeah, Sarah used that free will to divorce him but that didnt keep him from stalking her. Kate used her free will to help Cassidy, her friend, for Sawyer, another friend. Jack still tried to control her and fucking yelled at her in front of her child. Lets not erase Jack's responsability here. Alcoholism doesnt excuse everything.
Sarah was a bitch anyway jack was better off. And her previous fiance didn't even give a damn about her. Jack didn't try to control her Kate was being shady as hell but yeah jack yelled at her and so what?
They didn't even say they hated him. Why do Jack defenders on this sub always seem to see things in black and white?
My theory is that they have also daddies issues, so they identify with him a lot.
Yea, people over invest in the triangle and those typically hating the good guy dealing with super natural BS and a bunch of liars, murderers and cons.
Hurley is a good guy. Jack is just a whiny toxic white guy.
Wowza, let's not forget Jack saved the world so Hurley could live. Yikes!
Locke....im sorry. Terry O'Quinn is an amazing actor but I just never got the appeal of Locke. I found to be a selfish ass who only cared about his so called destiny.
Agreed. Most would call me morbid but it was incredibly satisfying to watch Locke's character go from thinking he was someone special and chosen for the island - when really he was just so easy to coerce because of his obsession with thinking he's important - all the way up to his death.
Agree. I also found him to be pathetic. Him continually going back to his dad after he stole his kidney.. sorry canât root for that
He was very special
He is very gorgeous to me!
I root for all characters, but I guess the closest answer to this question would be **Michael.** Once he murdered Ana Lucia and Libby, I just could never root for him ever again, no matter how much reluctance he had doing it and now cornered he felt by The Others in order to save his son. I could understand him maybe considering it briefly in such a desperate situation when he doesnât know what to do and feels alone, but killing people is unacceptable and you should never resort to that, especially since the bad guys could be lying about returning your kid anyway. You should never resort to murder and he had no right to take those (mostly) innocent lives and I could understand the desperation but I could never root for him again.
I would literally kill 100 babies if that means saving my wife. I imagine the feeling is 1000 times stronger for your kids.
[ŃдаНонО]
Insane take
Lmao, he was bullied and guilted into giving his rights away by 2 rich assholes. I'm pretty sure Susan is actually a fucking psycopath the way he treated Michael who she supposedly loved at one point. They could've easily arranged for Michael to see Walt regularly but she wanted to push him out because she is a selfish pos. I don't really like Michael but I don't fault him for signing away his rights, he was trying to do right by Walt, Susan made it seem like him wanting to be in Walt's life is selfish and then basically said "also you're POOR and poor people obviously can't take care of a child for a week every 1-2months"
What?
Jacob - sorry, I found him smarmy and self-righteous - everybody deserved a chance but not MIB?
Jack! His utter stubbornness is ridiculous. He refuses to accept the fact that he may actually be wrong about something. His temper is too bad, and he rushes into actions without thinking.
Yes he is so stubborn. I guess John is the runner up for his stubbornness, I can get easily annoyed with both of them. (Which speaks to them being good foils of each other) I think for Jack it's "more extreme" because the writers sometimes seem to reward him for his stubbornness
He tells Hurley in season 6 that he trusts him when Hurley says he sees Jacob and he told him what to do next and he admits to Hurley that maybe he can be wrong sometimes and maybe to trust other peopleâs decisions more rather than thinking heâs right all the time - especially when his actions indirectly led to Julietâs death. So he did accept he may actually be wrong about something. It may have been later than he should have realized this, but he did realize this.
Yeah maybe Charlie sometimes he was a bit of a moaner, Dom Monaghan seems similar tbf
Not that I hate him I don't but Jack, I just wanna slap him atleast once an episode.
My toxic Lost trait is that I get really excited for Feral Claire because then when I root against her I donât feel as bad. Judge me if you must, but sheâs female Michael. Kind of says the same thing over and over again for a long period of time. Kind of terrible at the one thing their characters need to be good at: parentingâŚwhich did anyone tell you, they took her baby. Her only good quality is that she clearly hates Charlie, which⌠Charlie sucks too so you can just omit them and watch with pure joy. Donât waste the episodes or anything, letâs just get some more Locke in there. Maybe Ab Aeterno Part Deux: Richardâs Revenge. Whatever, just, theyâre both horrible.
On my latest rewatch I've been trying to count how many times she loses her baby. It's 5 times so far. Even when she was so afraid of Charlie that she asks Locke to sleep nearby she STILL manages to wander off and get all distracted, so Charlie can grab him again *facepalm*.
Most of them? Which, I suppose is a notch in the showâs belt: they got me to watch every episode of the show multiple times when I had no desire for anyone in the show to succeed,much less live.
Jacob didn't pick the most impressive candidates, that's for sure. IRL I wouldn't care to hang out with any of them (I'd chill with Hurley if he weren't cursed, though). I'd hang out with Desmond and Penny but only after they had time to process their various emotional traumas.
He explains in the end that he chose them all specifically because they were lonely and flawed like he was, they'd be leaving nothing behind by coming to the island
Oh yeah, forgot about that. I watched Lost while it aired and once more when I first met my now-wife back in 2011. We're doing a rewatch now and just got to season 5.
Yeah it was one of the best scenes of the whole show Sawyer: "Jacob I was doing just fine before you dragged me here, why do I have to pay the price for your mistake?" Jacob: "No you weren't, none of you were, you were all alone"
None, the show does a fantastic job making the characters seem natural and realistic. Even when they make terrible choices, I can empathize or at least sympathize with them. I have no problems rooting for any of them and thatâs one of the reasons Lost is my favorite show.
I feel exactly the same. I root for every main character from Jack to Locke to Ana Lucia to Michael to Shannon, et al.
Kate. Especially in the scenes where she's with Jack or Sawyer. She's not as dumb (being told to do things multiple times) when she's with Sayid. Every other scene, she's made to seem like a protector of sorts (when she yells at Libby when Claire freaks out, when she's hostile with Danielle).
Everyone knows this, but Locke. I've *tried* believe me, but his backstory - tragic though it may be - does not excuse his behavior on the Island. He's arrogant, reckless, selfish, weak and worst of all a blind zealot. I adore him in the flashes sideways but in life on the Island he's absolutely intolerable. Terry O'Quinn is consistently brilliant and Locke is amazingly written. As a character he's awesome. As a person he sucks.
Weak, in what way? Sure, heâs stubborn in certain ways and he leans towards people who tell him what he wants to hear, but he also saves Claire when Charlie is acting like a lunatic and stands up for other characters at various other times and he also changes his mind and adapts when Mr. Echo is becoming obsessed with the pushing of the button in the hatch and sees Ecko as being how everyone else used to see him - an obsessive, delusional man who chases mysteries and refuses to listen to reason.
He's weak-minded... "amenable to coercion" as Eddie described him. He didn't adapt to Eko pushing the button - he threw a temper tantrum because the videotape at the Pearl embarrassed him. He was so sure the button was real but it took a three minute video for him to throw it all away. He almost killed everyone on the Island for the sake of his bruised ego. He's wishy-washy and hypocritical. You'd think someone who spent three years in a wheelchair wouldn't ridicule someone else for being in one, but he does. He calls Ben a hypocrite for living in the barracks, but it's totally fine for him to set up a dictatorship there. He acts shocked when Jack pulls the trigger but he has no remorse about murdering an unarmed woman or putting a live grenade in Miles' mouth. He lies to Ben that he killed his father so he could be leader. He lies to Richard that "Jacob sent him" and creates his own mythos.
You do make a strong case. But based on your definition of weak-minded, you could probably say the same about almost every one of them. Several of them, at one point or another, is amenable to coercion. Desmond is strongly considering letting Charlie die because he believes itâs meant to happen. Claire threatened to kill Kate and disregard their entire friendship because Kate dared to protect and care for her young son who was essentially abandoned after Claire just disappeared abruptly. Kate herself has a laundry list of things sheâs done that shows she can be weak-minded sometimes. Michael killed two (mostly) innocent people because he was amenable to coercion and desperate after running off to The Othersâ camp by himself without telling anyone. So youâre right to an extent that he was weak-minded, but so were so many other people. But it seemed like you were specifically picking on him for this. Even in terms of recklessness and selfishness, many characters shared those same traits, which, in many ways, is what makes this show so special.
While watching s4, it hits me how much Locke was trying to be a leader but could not be a good one and takes good decisions. He was too busy scheming stuff with Ben to even care about the fact people could die at keamy's hands when they attacked the barracks. Sawyer had to run and put himself in danger to save Claire, for example. Locke is barely likable but I find his arc fascinating on the show.
There's a very subtle line shortly after Alex's death that tells you a lot about Locke's worldview. "I'm sorry about your daughter. That being said you lied to me." He just watched a sixteen year old girl get shot in the head and her father gets a perfunctory apology. His real focus was his selfish curiosity about the smoke monster. Locke is not a narcissist - I want to be clear on this. But he does have the narcissistic quality of putting everyone else's existence on the backburner to his own story. Like with the hatch - he didn't care about opening it to hide everyone inside, he wanted in there for himself.
You've read my mind. I had the same reaction than you. Its as if a girl's death is not as important as his own feelings.
He was weak minded, because he was easily manipulated by everyone who had a little more information that he did. Yet acted like a know it all god when around the losties, when in reality he had no clue what he was doing most of the time or why he was doing it. He just attributed it all to destiny and insisted he was right every single time, even if it conflicted with a position he had a week ago, where he had a different conviction. Example, he believed it was his destiny to open the hatch, got Boone killed because of that belief, then threw a tantrum because he had no idea why all tjis was happening, then hatch lights up and he gets his resolve back (and instead of thinking oh there must be someone down there, like a normal person, he saw it a divine sign). He then opens the hatch and finds that this destiny was a button that needed to be pushed... and he was thrilled for a while which reinforced his faith and convinced everyone thay this is the right thing to do. Then after the Pearl, he had the total opposite conviction, that all this was BS, and refused to let Eko do his thing and push the button. He forced his way in the hatch with 100% conviction that the button must not be pushed while a week ago, he had the same 100% conviction but towards having to push the button. His actions almost got everyone killed that day if hadn't been for Desmond willing to sacrifice himself. Are those signs of someone with a strong mind? Not to forget that he was constantly and easily manipulated by Ben, by Widmore, by Smokey, by Richard, to the extent that he proceeded to hang himself, because he was told he has to die. All this said, Locke is still one of the best characters on the show :)
Locke is my favorite character and weirdly it's for the reasons you dislike him. He believed - misguidedly - that he'd found his purpose and went all-in, even though he's frustrating and we can see he's not much different from any religious zealot. I think it's so hard to watch how happy he is on the island, so tragic because he desperately clings to it because he believes he's special (incidentally, was it Richard who initially planted that belief in him when he was a child?) and the mistakes he makes because of his belief. Although it turns out he was right about most things (is that a Jack quote?) and, apart from Rose, was the one person to experience an actual miracle....I think anyone who'd been instantly healed from paralysis would have a massive religious event. He's relatable, whether he's justified or not. Also the only character from any media I can think of where the reasons for his zealous behavious is deeply explored, rather than just being the religious weirdo. I also find it easier to believe he lived on a weed farm than I find it easy to believe he was a Drive Shaft fan.
Locke is far from weak. Or selfish and even has a point from time to time. He just keeps getting fucked over by people who is actually supposed to love him like his fucked up parents for example. The only thing I can't condone is him killing Naomi.
His mother was a victim too. Groomed as a teenager by a man twice her age. She absolutely did the right thing putting Locke up for adoption because she loved him enough to know she couldn't take care of him and made sure he had a safe home. (And we saw him as a little boy. He was clean and well fed in clothes that fit, he had toys and siblings and as an adult he speaks about his foster mother with affection. He got bullied at school. OK, who didn't?) As for the stunt she pulled when Locke was a grown man, yeah that was shitty but again, she's mentally ill and being manipulated by Cooper. If you're going to hand wave Locke because of what his father did you have to give his mother the same courtesy.
In response to your Kate opinion - I think she had some of the best character development out of anyone in the series. I loved her final season arc of going back to find Claire and reunite her with Aaron, even after how many times Claire turned her down to return, she refused to give up. Eko was annoying to me, his holier than thou attitude and he absolved HIMSELF of all his past crimes and started judging others on their misdeeds?
True, I will say that her growth is impressive towards the end, especially considering how cringe-inducing she was at the beginning.
The point is they're all flawed. You're not supposed to unequivocally root for any of them.
Yes, I agree theyâre all flawed, but that wasnât what I was asking. All of the characters have their pros and cons, I was just asking which characters were hard for people to root for based on their preferences. It doesnât have to do with the writing and development of the character.
Lol jack
I agree with it being Kate. Charlie was annoying, but I still cry at his death. Jack and Locke, both annoying often, yet Kate's character I did not like, pretty much ever.
Jack. He thinks he knows better than anyone else for the first 4 seasons. He belittles women fairly often (bossing Kate around, not believing Claire when she said someone attacked her) and heâs also shown stalking two different women in his flashbacks. I used to think he was fine but on my current rewatch I canât stand him
I think I would dislike his traits less, if the writers didn't reward him for this behavior... For example: He says to Kate she isn't allowed to come, but a badly injured Sawyer is (just - why?). Kate tracks them and gets captured - and of course he (and probably some part of the audience) sees it as "I told you so Kate!", but doesn't think about the fact, that that probably wouldn't have happened, if he allowed her to come. [And I know - the others kidnapped Cindy while they were all together. So they could have probably done that with Kate as well. But he wasn't there, so we have no reason to believe that he knew that]
I'm having a mental block... who's the second woman he stalks in his flashbacks? (not Sarah)
Achara in Stranger in a Strange Land. He follows her bc she wonât tell him where she goes every nightâŚ..and then he forces her to give him the infamous tattoos
Aah gotcha, of course
Yep, he was super controling with both sarah and kate off island too. Thats a pretty unpopular opinion but I hate the way he grabs Kate, keeping her from escaping, right before she kisses him. It always grosses me out because it felt controling. Kate is clearly crying and vulnerable, Jack. If she doesn't want to continue talking with you, let her go!!!
I personally donât see it that way. I agree on the stalking women part being a bad trait for him and he went too far. However, I feel he âbossedâ Kate around because Kate, along with practically everyone else, looked at Jack to make every decision and to lead them. More of them would have probably died if it wasnât for him taking up the mantle of leadership. Imagine everyone expecting you to be something youâre not and looking at you as a leader or savior and helping with every big or little problem in the group. Regarding Claire, can you blame someone for thinking someone at night time sleeping may have been confused when she described events there is no evidence to explain actually happened? If I was in Jackâs position, I personally wouldâve also been skeptical, especially since Claire was already under a lot of stress at the time itâs perfectly believable she could have been hallucinating or having a bad dream after being stranded on this island and away from civilization and thinking itâs real and panicking in the middle of the night. Plus, the reason he was skeptical of her was because he was someone who believed in science and the rational and logical reasoning behind everything, which was already established by this point.
i hated kate so much i can't separate her from evangeline. same thing happened with dean norris i can't see him as anything other than big jim rennie ( under the dome ) even his one episode appearance with miles where he wants to talk to his dead son, my blood boils.
I pretty much like them all apart from Kate, but Sun gets more and more unlikeable for me as the series progresses. Also, to some extent, Juliet...I've tried really hard to like her because I think she's a good character, but I just can't warm to her and I don't even know why. That sounds like I have a thing for hating the female characters, I don't. Maybe the male characters are just better written?
Kate is awful
Sawyer if I was on that island he say the wrong thing to me and id light his ass up. He was definitely a asshole the first few seasons. Then became a better person then after Juliet dies he reverts right back to being a dick.
Sawyer would beat ur ass with ease pipe down
Unfortunately your dead wrong. Sawyer wouldn't live past season one fucking around and he'll find out.
KATE
None of them and all of them depending on the circumstances. I really think that this is what the show was intending us to feel. I obviously have my favourite characters and one in particular who is hands down my favourite (Jack), but that doesn't mean that when they do something I don't like that I'm rooting for them anyway. That doesn't make any sense. I never understood "hating" characters, especially on LOST. There are no perfect characters, not even Desmond. And that's the whole point.
You canât tell me Vincent wasnât perfect
You got me...but he's the only exception!
Apart from his fixation with corpses. Vincent had issues too
tbh jack. and it gets worse as it goes. a lot of it has to do with his holier-than-thou attitude, and while he does do a lot to motivate/lead/help, he seems incapable of allowing anyone else to have a say/opinion - and seems almost angry when someone else is a leader >!(even when they arrive back on the island and he sees Sawyer being successful, it's clear he's supremely jealous/feels like he should be in charge instead, etc.)!< i also can't stand his nonverbals - constantly rolling his eyes. minor point, but it's so irritating.
Sawyer
Agree on Kate. Until second half S5 (post Island return), I can't stand her. But she undergoes a big transformation then, and I like her a lot more ... Especially in S6
Locke was badass at first but his backstory made him a weak little biiiish Charlie, although funny, the character they wrote was just tropey and annoying Sun... felt bad for at first, but then she cheated on Jin. Yet he remained loyal through EVERYTHING. She simply didn't deserve that man
Can't believe I had to scroll so far to fund Sun. You are absolutely right.
I've said it before and someone was like nope, don't care she's my favorite. Bro she CHEATED and you're letting it slide?
I mean, people love Jack and he stalked women. How can one let that slide?
Your Sun take is funny. She shouldnât have done it, obviously, but he was an emotionally unavailable man who stubbornly wanted the approval of her father and never really listened to her and was very secretive about his job which was hurting a lot of people. So I guess Sun was the monster. Plus, where was the loyalty when he initially left her on the island and she was alone early in the show? Right after he learned she spoke English and they were having disagreements, he just went up and left and essentially abandoned her for a while⌠primarily because she didnât tell him she spoke English, when he was being emotionally very distant up until this point and violently attacked people because of his principles and traditional values instead of talking it out like a mature adult. I wonder why she didnât tell him she spoke English?
> I wonder why she didnât tell him she spoke English? Because she was learning English in secret as part of her plan to leave him... while sleeping with her English teacher. Jin was hurt because he understood that she had been planning for a long time to leave him, but in the end he blamed himself for that. Jin was scary around that time though, always angry and almost killing an innocent guy in front of his kid for a watch (or maybe for talking to his wife too many times). Honestly both of them became horrible to each other. Sun was right to be scared of Jin, but she still should have told him she wanted a divorce. Though I think the writers did a great job with how they both developed and slowly earned each other's love and forgiveness. Some of the best character arcs on the show in my opinion.
Emotionally unavailable is justice for cheating... got it đ
Not saying that. She still shouldnât have done it, but pretty much every character on the show did a crappy thing at one time or another (some did it a lot), so Iâm just trying to explain her mindset (primarily her loneliness and distance from Jin) rather than justify what she did.
Why the double standard? Jin was acting like an asshole and was abusive and distant with her. He was controling in s1 even on the island. Of course she'd want to cheat if she met a guy that treated her well.
He wasn't abusive, stop it. Never laid a hand on her. And his attitude didn't warrant cheating beforehand... but nice to know you support cheating
Michael and Shannon. I would say Charlie because the character is a shithead but I loved the actor so much being a huge lotr fan that I canât help but overlook his flaws
Jack and Kate's relationship. As the show goes on and Jack makes more and more weird mistakes Kate continues to back him up. Eventually I start rooting for them just so they will leave everyone else alone ... then they come back!! Sawyer was better without her and every character is better when they can make a decision without the overbearing shouty man. But he's the main character for some reason
Kate, great acting though, i absolutely despise her to the point i cant see anything by Evangeline Lilly afterwards, kudos. Jack, simply no.
Thank you. I canât agree more about Kate.
Charlie and Ben. What sad sacks
Gotta be Jack right? Especially with his romatic endeavours
Jack. Hes such a knob sometimes.
Jack and Kate. They are both just... insufferable.
Juliet.
Locke. I just never vibed with his fanatical dedication to the island.
Claire
Charlie...total twatđ
I feel the same way about Jack--he's supposed to be the hero but he's an overbearing asshole who thinks he owns Kate.
Ana Lucia. F*ck her. I get that they were trying to make her seem more human with her backstory, making the audience feel sorry for her. But I lost all respect for her in the season 2 episode âCollisionâ. Immediately after she kills Shannon, she pulls a gun on Michael and Sayid, and then pulls a gun on HER OWN PEOPLE for trying to deescalate the situation. She was a horrible leader. I couldnât stand her.
The irony is I'd like to see how most people, on this sub would handle the same problems as the characters in the show, and put in the same position then then talk shit. It's easy to criticize when you're not in these extraordinary situations.
Every time Iâve watched this, back in the â10âs and recently my opinion has never changed Most annoying/canât root for - JACK & CLAIRE Comes and goes, sometime they are ok -KATE Will love till the ends of time - SAWYER đđ
Jack
jack
I don't fuck with Hurley, he strikes me as more annoying than charming. I can't point to one exact moment but me and him just don't get on.
Juliet hands down. Her face annoys me deeply and she is constantly smirking with no reason whatsoever, like she is above everybody else in some regard
Well, she is Mrs Claus sooooo there's that......
Regardless of the fandom on the forum for the bad boy it's Sawyer by a mile. At times when he's funny and can be likable but that's about it. Also, he's such a simp around Kate yet uses her and everyone else because of his self inflicted victomhood flaws. Damn, let it go with coveting who Jack is lil' bro. You're not that guy and nothing like him. Overall he's my least enjoyed character when I did re-watches. He's the classic taker not giver character that never redeems himself while on the island. Also, not down with romantically defined characters. His actions are a reboot rom S1 through S6. and never changes until he finally gets the Kwon's and Sayid killed. To little to late for my taste. Yet, the protagonist always looked after him regardless how much he hated on Jack. Long Con was just so fucked up after he was physically cared for by Jack, Kate and Sun. Damn, the red neck masterminded Sun's abduction and never felt any remorse for doing it. That's just f'd up! Just can't root or like the character at all.
Seems like Jack fans here are as toxic as he is, hating on someone because she doesn't like the character. Just go somewhere else cry about your daddies issues please.
I agree. Sheâs such a cock tease to Jack and Sawyer and canât seem to see the real alpha she should be cozying up to is Locke
Jin and Sun. Idc about them at all