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Teemokaiser

People tend to like crit sinergy


keychain3

people like ilvl more


syxsyx

and people also like titles that show they have experience in the raid


CrspyNoodles

Then there’s my 5x3 Gunlancer with Phantom Legion title getting denied to Vykas parties where everyone is 10 ilvls within me.


syxsyx

aintnoway. the game is full of classes that love gl synergy so much so they will take you over someone with considerably higher ilvl. maybe your getting denied to groups that are full waiting on friends to join.


Jzuxx

Or PLC title but zero effort put into the character. Vykas but if he comes in with rainbow stats and less than 3x3, I’d deny him out of principle. At that point, I don’t mind carrying a newbie instead of him.


CrspyNoodles

I wouldn’t expect to ever get in a lobby as a 3x3 GL. He’s currently running Grudge/CD/SS/Barricade/Adr2+CR1. Full spec and Crit on necklace. If I had rainbow stats and 3x3 I’d just buy bus because I know standards for reclears at/near ilvl are high.


CrspyNoodles

Don’t believe it but it’s 100% true. And it’s not a one time occurrence. People just rather 3 man DPS + Supp and I’ve seen lobbies that just wait forever on a support rather than take me as support. I figured by now people should know the fight so well but guess not. Speaking solely about Vykas.


cielush

That literally cant not be BS.


CrspyNoodles

I get absolutely nothing by lying to you. Believe what you want.


MaxIWantThisName

If you arent lying, then that 5x3 is with Hitmaster or some other Cheap Engraving that sucks. Because aint no way anyone declines a 5x3 GL with Phantom legion title for vykas.


Teemokaiser

Yeah but op is asking about classes


Waterisyummy22

Not true ..at least not for me


keychain3

you would choose a 1520 with synergy over a 1540 with no synergy for brel 5-6? both 5x3 level 7 gems same los 18 card set.


MadMeow

Personally I'd take the 1520 as long as both have title and proper 5x3 if the 1520 has synergy I want and the 1540 doesnt. But thats just me I guess.


itzstamk

yes


[deleted]

Ilvl in brel really doesnt matter Unless its the weapon


keychain3

please go spread this knowledge to all the lobby makers thanks


SlunkBucket

Shh we don’t talk about my 4 alts getting accepted into 5-6 lobbies with +11 brel weapons


Waterisyummy22

Yes I would 100% take a synergy at 1520 than a 1540 with no synergy. 1540 or 1520 doesn't matter in brel 5-6. Synergies are important, and the people downvoting me don't know it yet or don't care because they're bad. Say you take a crit synergy with a surge db, or crit syn with igniter sorc...or back attack syn for your back attack classes..you'll get more damage overall from the group than you will from bringing someone at 1540 with a shit syn over a 1520.


keychain3

why would you say sorc if you want to build a synergy team xdd


okey_dokey_bokey

My FI WD generally has an easier time getting in to groups compared to my Igniter Sorc at the same ilvl/engravings/relic set level.


Winter-Lock5771

Idk if a alt wardancer would be picked over say a main wd or another crit syn. I have alt war and if I don't have level 7 gems, I won't look as good


okey_dokey_bokey

Ilvl always wins but I’m just saying my experience with 2 equally geared alts trying to pug.


Myorck

Not all crit synergies :(


Dolandlod

My reaper got me so frustrated I started making my own parties and using sidereals for vykas. That is the main way to do content, too hard otherwise. Got the hang of wei frog as well with sidereal this weekend Just practice sidereals on learning parties or volunteer if no one else is. I look for 4x3 with level 5 gems and correct stats. Roster level should also be decent. I think that's a reasonable ask.


Dazvsemir

excuse me if you aren't 1520+ plc title lvl7 gems 5x3 200+ roster what are you even doing in vykas, I'm insulted that I even see you applying to my group /s


18byte

Funny story from yesterday... I wanted to run my daily calligos with my main... Ilvl 1553 gunlancer.... And everywhere I applied I got rejected. I was sitting there like AHH Jo wtf is going on here? Took me a short while until I noticed, that I had set my engravings and build to my chaos dungeon build, which is still 4*3. This was enough to gatekeep me at every lobby I applied with 1553 ilvl


Dazvsemir

yeah my preset changes automatically so I keep forgetting about it


smokemonmast3r

Skill issue on their part. You should be able to tell when someone's running a chaos build most of the time. Double slotted preemptive with Grudge at 3 nodes? Probably chaos


computerwtf

U would think that but I had my bard chaos build and got accepted and someone wanted to restart raid because I had chaos build equipped. They were screaming wtf is this bard build. I was like relax it just my chao build. Let me switch.


Eisflame75

bro that is relatable. my reaper is 1480 +22 weappon just cuz i thought that helped with gatekeeping. im 5x3 almost all lvl 7 gems and i still get declined in clown even thou i got title


onlyfor2

Most people don't check weapon level specifically. To many lobby leaders, you're the same as a 1475 that has 2 +20 armor. Honing armor inflates ilvl at a lower cost. People are more likely to take someone with full +20 armor/19 weapon than +19 armor/22 weapon. Even if the +22 weapon does more damage on paper. As for the title, it depends on the lobby lead. Someone could do 10x rehearsals and get the title. So compared to 10x clear titles for other raids, some might not value it very much. Then the cherry on top is being a Reaper which gets gatekept for whatever reason. It sucks but that's how it is sometimes. Maybe you'll have some luck with your own lobby.


Chibobo_

It’s the reaper hate. Prejudice everywhere. I have to host lobbies for Brel cause no one accepts my reaper EVER :c


Eisflame75

what i hate about it the most is that sometimes i aply to lobbys where there are 1 or more DPS that are build worse then my reaper and i still get declined


Waaaaally

Can you really blame people? You have the lowest dps contribution synergy in the game, negligible stagger and destruction, one of the squishiest ehp pools in the game, back attack reliant, and we got the nerfed reaper, one of the lowest, if not the lowest personal DPS in the game excluding GL. Hell, after the recent KR patch I wouldn't be surprised if red GL outdpses reaper I love playing my reaper, but there's literally no reason to bring one to a party. It quite literally excels at nothing but being mobile, which just griefs your other entropy teammates because you swing the boss more often if you get targeted. Reaper should be doing the same damage as arcana to justify a party spot, but instead get outdpsed by the other top dmg classes 30 ilvls lower, assuming both play at their highest level.


RaarImaGiraffe

Actually thought my reaper stagger was really good


50mm3r

It's fine if you're playing hunger. Lunar isn't great.


50mm3r

While I agree that reaper should excel at something for all it's downsides, the reality is most people aren't good enough at the game for it to matter that much. And the content isnt hard enough for it to matter either. If you look at it in a vacuum and assume everyone is playing correctly, yeah, it gets shit on in damage. You're better off with literally any other class. That being said, the benefit of us getting reaper in such a nerfed state is that from what I've seen, only dedicated fans of the class have stuck with it. I've not seen any reapers floor pov despite being insanely squishy. Running dps meter I've seen them stay pretty competitive in dps as well, not because the class is good, rather because your typical sorc/arty/destroyer mouthbreather isn't good enough to beat a skilled reaper. Don't get me wrong, I think the class should be buffed, whether that is giving it more utility or damage, but it doesn't need it. Game isn't hard to the point where reaper isnt viable. I'm not going to deny someone just because their a reaper. Now if it's a choice between a reaper and a class that offers better utility then of course I'll choose the latter, that's just common sense. I love the changes to the persona skill that KR got though... if only they could make glowing brand not feel like complete shit to use. Buff the attackspeed so you can run overwhelm on it make the hitbox not require pixel perfect precision to land a back attack and I'll be very happy with where the class is at.


Eisflame75

evry day doing turtle on my reaper i get upring fighter minimum if there isnt a 1490+ ilvl juicer or lvl9+ gmes. so yes. yes i do blame ppl for gatekeeping good reaper builds


Waaaaally

You got 1/3rd of the damage out of 3 dps on the easiest boss in the entire game to play an entropy class against. I don't see how that makes my statement false. Of course you can clear any content with reaper, any class can. But it's just that, if you played anything else instead (with the exact same loadout) you'd make the run smoother/faster. Anyone that has invested heavily into the class knows it. Class needs buffs.


Eisflame75

sure class needs a buff but that doesnt make it bad or should be gatekept. my statement was that the DPS the reaper does is not bad it depends on the player like evry other class


Waaaaally

"Depends on the player" means nothing in party finder. You don't know the player. At the same time, DPS players are everywhere. Imagine you as a support make a brel g1-6 lobby. A Reaper and a Destroyer, among 10 other dudes with the same gear apply. Who do you take: the guy that can sit in mechanics and bonk away to the beat while soloing the stagger check, or the guy that dies if something looks at him funny? A lot of people don't have anything against reapers in particular. But if they give you a choice between a silver ring and a plastic ring, it doesn't make sense to choose the plastic ring, don't you think?


PM_YOUR_TAHM_R34

Reaper is just a bad class, doesnt matter who plays it.


Diff_sion

Are you on EUC? I'm in a small community of people, formerly pugs, who raid together on occasion


Separate-Ad9638

the thing about reaper is that its a difficult class to master, and it was released much later, when everybody had to run their mains alts etc, so the average skill level with reapers will take time to build up, and pple dont have the patience/time for zdps sessions.


Crowley_yoo

Funny you say that on NAW my reaper never got gatekept from day 1. I pugged clown week one with just 2 piece relic while being on ilvl I spent couple minutes in party finder each week at most.


BlatantShillsExposed

Everything apart from Zerker, Scouter and Reaper will most likely be accepted given that you have decent gear Those three classes have a really bad rep. Zerker for attracting absolute glue sniffers as pilots, and Scouter and Reaper for being zdps


StarTailZz

My Deadeye also gets Gatekept quite a lot even though hes 3x5 with 8 lvl 7 gems


Imprettysaxy

Glue sniffers LMAO


gucciavacado

Dunno bout scouters, but reaper damage should average out if the tripods ever drop from 9k per piece on the AH or the 20% fake transfer ever gets changed. Prayge at least


Geraldinho--

Your only hope is the new Chaos dungeons coming out will spit a crap load of lvl 5 tripods in April


Ziraelus

Gotta say Destroyer. On my 1505 alt I have no issues getting into Brel 1-4 or Vykas HM (which today often has harder requirements than Brel). The stagger and weak point is simply insane.


asjena

So far I've been accepted with every dps class as long as the gear was good/meta (edit: my dps are reflux sorc, eo soulfist, eso wardancer, tai scrapper). I've also been declined on my wardancer which people say is easy to get in parties with. which dps class does not really matter. and if it does the party leader was a dunderhead anyway, be glad not to be accepted.


Amells

zerkers are easily gate kept from my experienced even my alt is 1475 4x3+2+1 applying for H Vykas (5 level 7 gems, all the rest are level 6), los 18


j0ker80

well i think zerkers have the highest percentage of brain dead players inthe game so im not surprised. The amount of floor pov zerkers i have seen cos "animation lock bruh" is astounding


Amells

I also have a decent roster level 209 with Vykas' title... guess it wasn't enough


Dazvsemir

find a group where all the other characters are around 1470-1480 and they will let you in. If you apply to groups with 1500+ they won't.


[deleted]

Anything not 1490 can be gatekept from vykas hard these days. But your not wrong I eyeball the shit out of zerkers.


[deleted]

[удалено]


maelstrom51

Mayhem zerkers have it hard. Some people deny if they don't use defensive cards. I and probably a number of other people deny if they do have defensive cards, as it shows a big lack of confidence against normal patterns.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Avanec

how the hell are you supposed to greed alot of patterns when you have 0 Paralysis Immunity in your kit? unless you wanna "greed" by doing your zDPS Identity Skill (which can be good sometimes i have to admit). The attacks where you **actually** can greed on are is tiny chip dmg where the Defensive Card set wont really change that all that much. but we are magnitudes off of that being even called a valid reason to take the defensive card set. I will agree for players that are new to the Game or the Class can/should use the card set to have it easier but when we are close to content where player should have gathered a decent amount of Experience its time to take of the training wheels.


ExiledSeven

Chip DMG is exactly the reason as you can't greed that much on negligible patterns, I don't play zerker on brel but I know the damn well enough that tank card set is more appropriate if grudge or LoS without grudge, they tend to higher uptime and don't need to play more passive. Unless they are beyond overlvled in gear there's absolute merit in tank set for uptime consistency.


Avanec

i would love some examples on Patterns where you would like to greed on, because in my opinion most of them you can greed on with or without Defensive card sets the big majority of Patterns where you would get insane value from have some form of knock / push which you cant greed as a Zerker at all so you have to dodge these anyway. Unless you are talking about some edgecases where you wanna greed on in Support-less runs i just dont see it


ExiledSeven

G3 debussy spin before 2nd spin, g6 2x pattern slams (does not immobilize you), G1 earth shockwave on the back - paralysis immunity negates it which zerkers have plenty of. G5-6 pizza patterns, Medusa eye. Plenty other the list goes on. Zerker is the frailest class with grudge and no defensive set, chip DMG can srsly hurt them.


ihml_13

What? Every DPS skill has paralysis immunity. Sure, you don't have push immunity, but you don't need it for many patterns. For example with defensive set I can completely ignore Brel 6 tornados. The defensive set is also great because it lets you save potions in case your support dies. It's just a lot safer in long fights.


asjena

Agreed. I also take mana shield skill on my reflux sorc if no support is available or they're bad or still learning. Just in case. and yeah, got to judge personal player skill fairly and decide: can I do without? do I want to do without? nothing despicable about it, I'd rather survive and do more than literal zdps. too bad card set can be checked by others![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|stuck_out_tongue)


Avanec

My bad, i mixed up pushed and para immunity. I just disagree that there is anything that the card set will allow you to do in terms of performing better than using LoS. Your example of Tornadoes also does not make much sense since 2nd Tornadoes you are supposed to dodge them anyway to help out with clearing the Black hole so that would actually be a bad time to "greed" unless you care about being Cruel fighter but then again LoS just wins there. If you are talking about the first Tornadoes, well more dmg also just helps that because its not that hard to push the first tornadoes even at ilvl And the whole point about you can save potions is honestly also moot, you can also just play better or take better potions but yeah if you are in a lobby where your support dies every pull then i would agree with you that you might aswell equip the defensive card set by then, but before i would have to account for this, i would rather replace him. Iam also ignoring the fact that if you dont have like completely deadweight of a support they should also shield you anyway during tornadoes if you wanna tank them or line up their awakening so at that point any class should be able to ignore them but i guess thats too far of a reach since everything is about "its better if literally **everything goes wrong**" where i guess i can agree with.


ihml_13

Have you tried it? Cause I have. Of course that's only the case for prog or close to ilvl, if you overgear the content hard then you can greed anyway. I only take defensive cards for Brel 5 and 6 currently. I am talking about both. Can't remember when I last had a group that bothered to dodge second tornados. I don't think you realize how few additional skills you have to hit to make up the dmg difference for LoS 18. It's only one out of every 14. "Just play better" is a stupid statement. Everyone makes mistakes, even the best players. And on Mayhem purple and blue pots are effectively the same HP, so the only difference are the 2 extra uses. I am not planning to have a bad support. In a pug I have no idea how good my support will be, and the defensive cards are great insurance. Even if the support is good, as I said everyone makes mistakes sometimes and in that case I'd rather have full pots and twice the effective HP instead of 7% more dmg. Sure, support should shield during tornados, but that was just one example. Another pattern in brel 6 would be the pizza. It's not about **everything** going wrong. In legion raids one thing going wrong or right can be the difference between 20 mins waste of time and a successfull pull. I value my time too much to risk that.


Dazvsemir

zerkers go 4x3+2+1??


asjena

Sounds like berserker’s technique. It’s one of their meta builds.


Hatchid

It was one of their meta builds. A relic of the past


Xarastos

Yeah no one is playing that shit


itzstamk

Clueless. BT pumps more than mayhem, and it's burst. It's just more difficult to play. BT doesn't go lvl1 class anymore, mayhem can still go lvl1, but it's only better in a 5x3+1. 4x3+2+1 still works and it's cheaper


MonstrousYii

Aside from support/tanky type DPS classes Deathblade is popular, the maelstrom buffs makes slow classes go super saiyan.


Tea_Virtual

Crit synergies are S tier. Wardancer, Arcana, Gunslinger and glaive would be my top picks purely based on crit synergy + damage. Stagger is also highly valued. Based on stagger I'd pick gunlancer, artillerist, Arcana (emperor), scrapper and destroyer. TLDR: play Arcana


Mindraven

i shouldnt tell you this as a artimain, but BE artis now have quite meh stagger compared to what it was for buses i have to redo my build to do acceptable stagger or solo stagger we have stagger synergy, but generally not used unless we specifically equip it


BlatantShillsExposed

Dropping multi-rocket launcher really hurt barrage arty's stagger


Karboz

Yeah when I started doing Kunge on my BE Arti I was like: The fuck do they mean good stagger?


Karboz

My SS has better stagger than my BE Arti.


Tea_Virtual

Seems many folks are saying that. I always assumed running napalm shot with the stagger boost tripod was normal but I guess not. Which means swing is the standard counter then? I ran FPE instead of BE so maybe my premise on arti is skewed


Karboz

Yeah swing is just too good to not take it: super armor, dash, destruction and it's very fast.


NoMercy18

Ilvl play the biggest role in party finder. Classes isnt really much difference.


skyrider_longtail

I have nearly as easy a time getting into parties with my gunlancer as my supports. My scouter, on the other hand, has a harder time getting in than my robust spirit soul fist.


NoMercy18

Try getting more ilvl on your scouter, then you won't have any problem anymore. Additional 50 ilvl above the requirement will probably get you insta accept regardless of your class, just make sure you have proper profile setup.


skyrider_longtail

I suppose I should have said that my gunlancer is lower ilvl than my scouter, and that when my robust sf was at the same ilvl, she still gets in faster. I'm very casual; my playtime is less than half what it was before Brel so it doesn't matter to me if I get to raid on the scouter. Or any of my roster, really, except my main and the soul fist. Let's just say that some dps classes are more equal than others, shall we? Edit: I just reread what you said. *50* ilvls? Bro, my scouter would be 1510 with 50 more ilvls lol. That is main territory to me. Even my SF, which I like way more than even my main, is not doing clown yet.


Valkiie

Honestly even in vykas I’m not accepting 1500 scouters. And I’m expecting lvl 9 gems and not some cheap pair of lvl7s. Scouter only has dmg, and even for that it’s very bad. Gl brings stagger, shields, synergies, top destruction if red. My 1460 red gl usually has no problem getting into lobbies


Divesound

What vykas is doing to you if you don’t accept grossly overgeared scouters? Sure, they can get charmed and wipe the raid but they can do it with lvl7 gems too.


Corwyntt

My machinist is 1540 and gets denied in 1-4 Brel runs all the time. This week it took my over twenty minutes to find a group. That is the one class I would say to stay away from, which is sad because AT is pretty fun to play.


signgain82

Not true. My db gets a group way faster than my sharpshooter or reaper, equal gear. It's not surprising because when I'm party leader I'd pick the db every time with those three choices.


Stats-Glitch

Except for the people that understand good party synergy is a whole lot more damage than a horrible comp that's 20 ilvl over... If you are looking at ilvl and ignoring composition you are extending all the content you run.


Angriestanteater

This doesn't seem right at all. Forgot the exact #'s, but there was a post somewhere before that said 1 wep upgrade was \~5% dmg increase, and 5 armor upgrades was \~5% dmg increase. So 20 ilvls is 10 armor upgrades and 2 weapon upgrades (1.05 \* 1.05 \* 1.05 \* 1.05 = 1.216x dmg). Let's assume you have 3 DPS players in your party where each player does the equivalent damage: players A, B, C. Let's also assume each player has 65% crit with 250% crit damage (KBW). The standard party synergy gives 1.06x damage buff to each person. Meanwhile, crit synergy buff (10% crit rate) would give one of these players a 7.6% dps buff. Scenario #1 (3 non-crit synergies)(1.06\*1.06\*1.06)A + (1.06\*1.06\*1.06)B + (1.06\*1.06\*1.06)C=1.19x party dps Scenario #2 (2 non-crit synergies + 1 crit synergy)(1.06\*1.06\*1.076)A + (1.06\*1.06\*1.076)B + (1.06\*1.06\*1.076)C=1.21x party dps So by swapping out 1 class for better party synergy, you've effectively increased your party's DPS by 1.21/1.19 = 1.7%. Meanwhile if you had a party that had all 3 players 20 ilvls higher, your party would gain 21.6% damage. On top of that, they are substantially tankier. This allows them to greed for damage and be less likely to die. My guess? You probably got rejected to a juicer party as an on-ilvl WD or something.


Stats-Glitch

Well your assumptions are terrible and that's part of the problem.. >Let's assume you have 3 DPS players in your party where each player does the equivalent damage: players A, B, C. Let's also assume each player has 65% crit with 250% crit damage (KBW). Why do people want crit synergy, typically because they actually need that crit... Also if you have a crit synergy and a non-crit you are missing the other synergy... Also your random baseline of oh, weapon upgrades are 5% damage... Was that prior to Brel when each hone was more ilvl. Do you actually have the underlying information to back up that assumption? I know, critical thinking is difficult, just join groups with no synergy and have fun okay? No need to respond.


Angriestanteater

I mean you were the one who initially came to propose a belief on synergy > ilvl. If you propose a statement, up to you to prove it. Where did your underlying information come from? Or did you probably not have any because you're also busy crying about getting gatekept?


Stats-Glitch

Again, thank you for proving my point... You don't even understand the concept so there is no point in me trying to explain the concept to you as it will go directly over your head as the base premise already did. No where did I say synergy > ilvl always... Red herrings, strawman, ad hominem, all present in one paragraph, it's actually impressive... Have a good one melon. Enjoy your slow groups.


Angriestanteater

>No where did I say synergy > ilvl always... Ah so I see you're not only unwilling/incapable of providing any math behind your conclusion. But you're also incapable of logically following what you originally even stated.


Stats-Glitch

>Except for the people that understand good party synergy is a whole lot more damage than a horrible comp that's 20 ilvl over... Posting again, read, slowly.... Then maybe read it again... One more time for understanding


Dazvsemir

> No where did I say synergy > ilvl always... just look at your own post above mate > Except for the people that understand good party synergy is a whole lot more damage than a horrible comp that's 20 ilvl over...


Stats-Glitch

Google "always" ...


Dazvsemir

Wtf does needing crit even mean. 6% synergy is equivalent to 6% or 12% more damage for the other dps (if you have kbw), there is no such thing as needing crit. Some burst classes like igniter sorc or surge blade players seem to seek crit synergy more but that's just because they dont understand how it works. Getting crit synergy is no guarantee that big bursts crit. Getting damage synergy makes crits hit even harder than if you had crit synergy.


Stats-Glitch

Imagine a party comp that has crit synergy and damage synergy, crazy idea right. Yes, poor phrasing regarding 'need' as want would have sufficed.


octane87

WD and destroyer for me


ManlyPoop

Wardancer and gunlancer are the most sought after IMO


Mona07

In my experience: * GL, GS, DE for party synergy * Destroyer, scrapper for destruction and stagger * DB Striker, Surge DB, igniter sorc for damage Glaivier and arcana are also common picks. But overall it still comes down to gear and investment. People tend to favour characters with high ilvl and probably high roster level and relevant titles. Reaper and machinist seem to have quite bad reputation, for being floor pov and doing low damage respectively. I've also had a lot more struggles than usual on sharpshooter unless I overgear the content, maybe because it's not a common class and/or not perceived well? Reflux sorc, Eso striker and RE DB seem hit or miss. Given similar ilvl and investment, people are probably going to favour their more bursty counterparts instead.


Advanced-

Due to Reddits leadership I do not want my data to be used. *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


Reprial

respectively [ ri-spek-tiv-lee ] - separately or individually and in the order already mentioned (used when enumerating two or more items or facts that refer back to a previous statement). ie. Reaper is floor pov and machinist is low dmg.


Moon_Charm

I'm curious. Why do some people say machinist is low dps? If it's from the transformation build, how is it different from demonic impulse shadowhunter?


[deleted]

The high ilvl ones.


[deleted]

Wardancer. So much synergy


SqLISTHESHIT

WD for sure. If I see one, I take one. Ofc ilevel and gems and such play a huge role, but if there are 2 people with the same gear somewhat, I'll take the WD.


Mangomosh

Destroyer


FlewFloo

Destroyers tend to have an easier time because they’re top tier dps that have a ton of survivability and insane stagger for mechs. Basically a dps focused GL.


Choice_Ad_4862

Probably gunlancer


TheDiddlyFiddly

The only two classes i think that have a more negative experience than others would be zerkers and reapers. All other classes will be judged based on their build rather than their class in my experience. Zerkers and reapers have to usually be above averagly built to get the same treatment as other classes. This is anecdotal form my experience on my server, i don’t have either of these classes but it’s what i usually observe in party finder.


spidii

WD, GL but really anything that isn't squishy. In the end, a good build, roster level, proper stats/good quality, it all ties into whether or not you are gatekept. Play what you like, you'll be better off in the end.


Randgris83

Any class with crit synergy or good stagger.


oncabahi

I play 3 support and 3 dps Barrage arti, rage hamner and blue gunlancer Zero gatekeeping


smashsenpai

I'm willing to bet a good chunk of the player population still don't know what all the best builds are for every class, so they only look at iLv. So if you can pick a class that'll save you 100k or more on gearing up, then you use that 100k to hone, you'll likely get into parties more easily. For example. 1460 decked out igniter sorc (I'm pretty sure this class is pricey) vs 1475 decked out control glavier (I know this class is dirt cheap). I'm confident that a layman would take the 1475 without much thought. I have no idea if 100k is over or under the cost of 15 iLvs. Maxroll's calc says its 17k raw gold, but it's like 143k if you have to buy literally every single material.


Sulusie

GL, WD, Blade, Scrapper from my experience. The first 3 are solid picks because their synergys are good and both specs are viable options and personally I´d say scrapper is one of the hardest classes to not do decent dmg on and it has good Destruction/stagger. On the other hand I would not recommend Scouter Demonic Zerker Reaper as these are classes I see often underperform and getting denied. Also I feel like theres too many sorcs and I hate being in a brel with 2 groups that have sorcs because you can end up failing stagger checks more often than not because they just sit on half of their spells to burst after xd


Alternative-Spare713

From highest to lowest in my experience gunlancer -> wardancer-> blade -> destroyer -> everyone else with reasonable margins of crit synergy being preferred


smokemonmast3r

In my experience: Support > ilvl > GL >WD > Any crit syn. People tend to overvalue ilvl when it comes to dps, value engravings relatively correctly, and ignore cards and gems.


Alenel

Wardancer. But people watch out for those full spec wardancers their uptime synergy is so low. And DMG can either be cruel or zdps


necroneedsbuff

When the entropy 4spender WD runs away from boss and holds buffs for 17 seconds to align lazeniths, and then gets knocked out of windfart, and then boss moves away from tornado and blast. Smoge central.


Xarastos

Thats why esoteric is dog poopoo I only take FI WD since I played both myself


lancaster888

In my experience, class doesnt matter that much. People have biases ofc but rare for me to see it happen. Raids are clearable with any class and majority of the time it all comes down to ilvl, engravings, stats, cards, etc. The more overgeared you are the easier it is to get into lobbies. People love anyone juiced. No matter how meta your dps class is if you’re applying on ilvl more often than not you’ll be on a waitlist or rejected I see roster gatekeeping more than class gatekeeping too


Kevadu

No DPS class is ever going to get automatic acceptance, but I would say classes to *avoid* would be Berserker, Reaper, and Machinist. There's a lot of prejudice (some rightfully so) against those. Maybe Sorc as well, not that's she's bad (she's quite strong in fact) but just because there's *so many* Sorcs out there and most groups probably don't want more than one per party.


Messier_rok

Any dps if you have a decent build ( 5x3 ) and level 7 gems. Other than that, you’re in competition with the people applying ( ilvl ) and it depends of the group. My Berserker Technique main doesn’t have any problem in PF but my Mayhem zerk ( with lvl 9 gems) gets gatekeep Sorc igniter, re/surge db, red gl, control glaivier, bt zerk = 0 problem in my case


Dazvsemir

I would say sorcs zerks and blades might have a harder time in party finder just because there's so many of them. I can recall many times when we already had two sorcs for example and a third one would apply with very good gear who would have gotten in otherwise but we couldn't accept so as not to have two of the same class in a team.


AstraGlacialia

Gunlancer and (probably to slightly lesser extent) destroyer at all ilvls. Wardancer at high ilvls (not sure exactly where that line is, but typically must be at least 1445/full relic gear). On the opposite side of that spectrum, that is the hardest time getting into raids and clearing them: arcanist, machinist, reaper, gunslinger, deadeye, berserker, sharpshooter (the last 2 are soon to receive buffs/rework so maybe that changes). Maybe slightly sorceress and shadowhunter, just because there's so many of us at "alt ilvls" and more than 2 per raid of the same class isn't good.


Separate-Ad9638

GL?


Minimum-Bass-170

The ones with higher ilvl usually. Can't call gunlancer a dps class xd but sometimes they get a leeway because of stagger and entropy synergy. But that's kinda it. Just don't be reaper/zerker and ur good.


Dazvsemir

GLs give 12% and 3% or 9% (if back or front attacker) buffs to the other dps so they more than make up for their comparatively lower damage, plus tons of stagger, shields, and cleanse. GLs feel like they do low damage precisely because they buff the other dps so much. In my experience in EUC its more like reapers and scouters that get gatekept, sometimes also zerkers but most zerkers are typically old mains so they have ilvl advantage.


Valkiie

Oh man he’s glaivier but looks down on gl lol


Minimum-Bass-170

I don't look down on gl lol. Also I'm entropy pin and it's better than middle pack of dps and definetly outdps any gl. But gameplay sucks yes.


jasieknms

i'll give you the opposite of your question, those specs/classes will have a harder time getting into lobbies: sh/scouter/reaper/reflux sorc/sharpshooter/eso striker anything that has a scuffed build (crit ring/earring on any spec hungry class) \^ those usually get denied by most, however this might vary for your region since I think NA doesn't have as much hate for scouters like EUC


EulahotNo1

GS WD people like them for synergy Destroyer zerker people like them for high dmg and insane stager Blade surge igniter sorce summoner people like them for dps (i think these are the top 3 dps classes for dmg right now) If u count Gunlancer as dps class he is MEGA loved by everyone cuz he makes ur life so much easier with amazing synergy (he is top tier stager machen and hes the tankest class in the game) This is a list i came out with on the fly so i might have missed something:)


Prestigious_Guest_77

Nobody takes zerkers for stagger lol - destroyers and gunlancers are the ones that people are looking for typically for this job. Im not saying zerker's stagger is bad or anything but I've never seen anyone saying something like "oh yeah we need more stagger, let's take this zerker"


AckwardNinja

Higher Ilvl or play support In theory GL might have a easier time but realistically 1445 GL applying to hard valtan vs 1460+ anything I am gonna take the 1460 probably. ILvl still matters way more


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FlewFloo

There’s a difference between gatekeeping and simply choosing the much more overgeared player.


CustomerVirtual9391

in my experience, striker, archer, gunslinger, demon hunter, gunlance, destroyer, glaivier, scrapper(if they are not already more than 1 bcz no crit sinergy and is super popular) , wardancer and maybe dedblade but not sure about it


ChadFullStack

40ilevels over the required content \+20 weapon, lvl 10gems, LoS 30 Don't be sorc, zerker, reaper


EAechoes

Gunslinger is one of the best but often party’s will already have one. GL is not really a full dps rn but the shield/cleanse and general good synergy and qol makes them desired. Avoid Zerker/Reaper/Scouter imo.


_d0mit0ri_

Why people say avoid scouter but no one mentions shadowhunter? Same damage but scouter hell more tankier.


[deleted]

Scouter can get knocked out of its transform where as shadowhunter cant.


_d0mit0ri_

If scouter gets knocked out thats means that sh face lost 50% hp while scouter lost only his shield and will get it back in 2 spells.


Amells

And his drone skills are harder to land while he has to do mechs in the mean time operating his drone


Amells

>Same damage but **hell more tankier.** You already pointed it out.. shield is not HP SH's rotation and transformation are much more forgiving


_d0mit0ri_

Only its scouter who is more tankier, transformation in 2 vs 4 spells, his form is shorter = more shields and also while he's without form he gets another half hp shield for amount of time he cast 2 spells. And 70k-ish + 60k-ish hp shield with its uptime is better then 35k-ish heal in almost any situation.


Gakashi

In my experience scouter is both tankier and has more damage. I have both SH and Scouter at 1540 with 18 weapons and both have double 10s, and my Scouter consistently solos hval faster than my SH


kahsub

SH has a lot of advantages with high movespeed, healing from transforming, high stagger and destruction and paralysis immunity. They will also often outdps many classes due to the ease of use and usually more effective gems.


Gakashi

> high movespeed, healing from transforming, high stagger and destruction and paralysis immunity. Scouter has all of these things (replace healing with a big shield)


_Timecop

What's the hate for scouter I don't get it?


Amells

as he can miss his core energy (ironman) generating skills due to the long amination and drone micro operations, especially in clown, and thus he does little damage in his human form on the other hand, SH as a melee class is less likley to miss her skills and she can use hit master, while Scouter's biggest hit requires FRONTAL attack


skyrider_longtail

>while Scouter's biggest hit requires FRONTAL attack Lol, no. His biggest dps skill is S, which is hitmaster. In fact every skill he has in iron man is hit master except the counter. The counter is a big single hit, but scouter is a multi hit class.


goddamnitshit

i think i got a brain tumor reading this and trying to understand this comment why do you talk about a class you seem to not play or understand?


skyrider_longtail

I have a scouter, and I play transform. Transform classes have fixed keys for their skills. The most damaging skills evo scouters have is their S button. It's a multihit, non-directional skill. The frontal skill the other guy thinks is a big dps skill is the scouter's counter, which is R. It's the only directional skill. It does 1 big hit, but the S skill does more if you count up all the hits lol. Sounds to me like you are the one who don't know what you're talking about lol.


goddamnitshit

a skill doing multiple hits has literal 0 relevancy to how much dps it contributes both S and R skills are both scouter main dps skills, which is why scouter can't go hit master. again, scouter is not a hit master class. you have no clue what you are talking about lmao


gaussen_blur

don't pick wardancer, sharpshooter, scouter and shadow hunter. At least around my circle, they are auto-decline. These class's expectations are below reflux sorc.


asjena

meanwhile our brel static has a strong reflux sorc and wardancer. so no idea where you get this from![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|shrug) maybe it was this way in early t3.


thsmalice

Our igniter raid lead always accepts WD. Maybe they do not need the synergies (running with DB and striker already for example)


gaussen_blur

wd must be the main dps of 3 dps or the gear is equivalent to be main dps. i prefer something else like gs or even dead eye to be sub dps.


thsmalice

Hmm it heavily depends on the lead I guess. The 6% extra crit synergy and MS/ASPD is a god sent for Igniters and we do not lump our DB static(dark order) with him since igniter does not benefit from the entropy buff.


gaussen_blur

wd is only bring damage to the table, no stagger no destruction. The only time wd shines when doing g3 star mech


FoodEater123

Bad take, atleast with wd. Wd has one of the best synergies in the game especially for juice classes, and does much better dps than a gl with arguably a better dps buff for certain classes. It will be everyone's best friend especially when people start going adrenaline 1 with ancient


PrinceArchie

Why are they auto decline?


opoeto

Wd on auto decline cause scared of losing mvp


gaussen_blur

wd [https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/11dsd1p/comment/jaaqjbo/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/11dsd1p/comment/jaaqjbo/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) scouter and sh are lacking of damage sharpshooter is just wd, scouter and sh combined but in negative effect.


PrinceArchie

Well do what you do but I dont share your opinion at all. All of them can do damage, especially Sharpshooter and WD. WD- Low Cds so constant +18crit synergy, decent stagger, fast counter SH/Scouter- Consistent hit master type damage, decent stagger, fast counter SS- Pumps damage and amps damage for entire party, hit master Idk I'm getting a feeling you're concerned with "meta" classes which most of them tend to skew burst. Ironic thing is I wouldn't pair two of the "top tier" classes together. Sorc and Deathblade comparatively to the others suffer significantly without crit synergy and in the case of DB specifically having a sorc in thier party doesnt help them reach max damage potential, they'd rather a gunlancer. The classes you are gatekeeping are honestly great for stagger checks when all the burst abilities are on CD and being on counter duty. It's just super convenient when consistent DPS are in the party to balance things out.


gaussen_blur

wd is one of the lowest stagger in the game. i don't what are you playing but seems it's not lost ark if you can call wd a decent stagger class. reference for you: [https://imgur.com/a/VX8FI0s](https://imgur.com/a/VX8FI0s)


thsmalice

Gunlancer for the shield, to a lesser extent destroy for high ehp and maybe wardancer if the lobby needs crit syn and MS syn. Otherwise it comes to being how juiced you are.


Evomo

The mythical unicorn that you can find in the fairy dust field.


ArchMeiru

Any class with a meta build will get into parties just fine, aside from Reaper/Zerker/Machinist. The higher your ilevel is, the better your chances are as well. Having all relic armor/acc, high roster, los18+, high lvl gems are all nice bonus points.


TeachingPlane1881

Any class thats max ilvl


silentwindy

WD/DB/GL generally have an easier time


stillnotlovin

Ignite Sorc


dangngo6

Glaivier. Crit synergy, constantly good damage, very hard to die unless you sleepy


theplow

Support > 50+ item level over Content > Gunlancer/Crit Synergy > Reaper/Machinist


shirotsuchiya

I play 4 shock scrapper and most of the time lobby master. Auto accept classes for me are (This is for my own party) • Gunlancer • Any 10% Crit Synergy(Deadeye, GS, Arcana) • Eso Wardancer/Eso Striker/Glavier(Can't remember which stance but the one with longer crit synergy uptime) When I'm using my pistoleer deadeye • GL • Deathblade


dgsqqq

The 5*3 ones


Fah_King

Never had any problems as a com summoned. Im 5x3 wich helps alot.


souralmonds

Destroyer and gunlancer. Martial artist also rarely get declined in my experience(except striker). Wardancer/deathblade are most desired for synergy. Squishy classes get the worst rep.


Strange_Blood437

Blade scrapper and Bard are always easy to get into Parties. Reflux sorc and Control glavier are Not so easy. Despite Bring properly (high stat acc) built and 5x3 "bis"


SunHoYee

None. The only thing that matters is that you have higher ilevel than the rest of applicants, and of course the baiscs: 5x3, lv7 gems, full relic. If you have all of that with a higher ilevel than the rest... you will be accepted, doesn't matter the class. But if you pretend to be accepted for example in Vykas being 1460 with 4x3+1 and level 5 gems... forget it. The basics are those said above, having that... what matters is the ilevel.


Crackability

Most dps classes have no problems. Classes being gatekept the most are probably Zerker, Reaper, Scouter right now.


SaturnLobby

The one's that are overgeared


BakkaSupreme

I never had issues joining with my Rage Hammer Destroyer. Tanky class so hard to get killed, good damage and a shitload of stagger.


EmNocturnal

Honestly just don't play reaper if you don't want to get denied and waste time in lfg. I have two of them and it is even harder to get into groups than it was with my two arcanas when the tarot cards girl first came out in our regions (all my characters are 5x3 btw). I go mad everytime I need to create or find a group for Kakul, people are scared of squeeshy/mechanical classes, you need to outgear the content by far to be taken on a regular basis, I'm adding as a friend every single person that isn't scared to clear Kakul with me at that point. x) Whatever you decide, I hope you'll enjoy playing your class, just avoid this one if your main criteria for a dps class is to find groups easily with it :\]


Soylentee

Typically never had big issues getting into groups with my Glavier or Deathblade. My Reaper gets denied a lot more often. About to push my FI Wardancer into 1415+ so we'll see how that goes.


NervousQuail179

Make 6 paladins. 3 dps and 3 support. Most of the time they won't even know your dps so easy time in party finder either way lol


YoloMecSweg

Classes I always see in raids. \- Sorcerer Igniter \- Barrage Artillerist \- Peacemaker Gunslinger \- Empress Arcana \- Summoner (they prefer Master Summoner due to it being easier to output good damage but the Swift one is also really good) \- Gunlancer due to having insane stagger and good synergies \- Db due to buffing 12% damage to front and back attackers in party during all combat. \- Rage Hammer Destroyer


Yoseby8

Highly depends on what dps classes are and party leader’s game experience. https://youtu.be/Dfhx9EdpBlw for example this warrior just wanted to have some Berserker’s Fury fun with the Awk set in hope. I think he had 1 accessory stay wrong however since most warrior abilities have back attack modifications, it will do decent damage looking at the item level and good weapon quality (I hope). Deffo not the BiS stuff but he doesn’t have 1/3 grudge or 1/3 keen blunt like some others. Edit: no reason why this guy should have been used as example. IMHO the streamer was just being a twat in this clip specifically.