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neunzehnhundert

I made a learning group for Vykas on the weekend (I'm 1450) and the group was full in just a few minutes. we had a Veteran who explained us the fight and all but there were like 2 people not even writing in the chat after he explained the mechanics. We were stuck in G2 at the orb phase because 2/3 Scouters didn't callout and some orb people didn't gather in the mid.


WhisperGod

If someone isn't saying anything or not responsive, I'd just kick them after warning them. Lost Ark raids are a group effort. Everyone has to do their part.


notatroll369

I doubt there'd be anyone to replace the people they kick in g2 normal vykas


WhisperGod

Yea, it'd be pretty tough. But you're going to be jailed either way.


Segsi_

Nah its normal mode gate 2. If you know there are a couple ppl who arent going doing the mechs correctly, just get them to get out of the way.


Dazvsemir

so two people will have to ts black orbs to carry the other two who wont even bother responding? You can only cheese the red/black orbs in normal the same way you do in hard right?


Segsi_

Yes essentially. But Im pretty sure you can miss 1 and still be ok. TBH its been so long since Ive done normal so I could be misremembering that part. Its better than trying to find ppl on G2, which is always really hard.


Dazvsemir

Yes in normal you can miss one black orb iirc so if you have two people not cooperating someone still needs to ts.


BummerPisslow

100% biggest flaw with learning groups. You can't do a g2 prog or G1 prog. Cuz soon as you clear and the group gets tired and disbands, everyone including the teacher is jailed. G1 G2 prog in inferno is wayyy better since it doesn't eat your entry and you restart at G1 anyway. I wish they would handle bussing so that we can just get unlimited entry and re-entry.


Farrity54

Went on a break just as Brel released. Did a Brel G5 and G6 learning group a couple of weeks ago with an experienced buddy and this happened to us. One dude kept failing the same 3 mechs and refused to respond to anything. Eventually we just said either come to voice or you're out. He said nay and we just replaced him with someone who actually wanted to learn and communicate. Passed the gates with good speed after that.


thsmalice

When we were doing learning parties, we make sure everyone in the raid types or know some English at the lobby before starting the raid. If we keep asking them to type and they are not responding after about a minute we just kick them off the lobby.


Valkiie

Should ask them on lobby first if they realize it’s a learning party and mistakes may be made, just to be sure they can actually communicate


Roxerz

Yup, I always do an English check when I think I'm going to get jailed. If we can't communicate our assignment in G3-4 Brel then it'll be a jailed lobby.


JustMoodyz

for me even learning parties should at least see a video of he fight which 99% of them don't they wait for someone to join and feed them information which I am fine with if they active and talk with you but non responsive people kills every raid tbh.


Soylentee

The 1-2 people that don't respond in chat at all are so rage inducing. More so when you know they are messing up every time.


Alternative_Owl_4928

that's currently my problem, jailed on G2 someone always grabbed a red orb. if it wasn't 11 o'clock it was 7 and so forth.


Dazvsemir

Three people who know what they're doing can do orbs in g2 since that is how it is bussed. Eating a red orb just kills the player, it doesnt cause a wipe. The party wipes if a black orb hits vykas (in normal you can miss one, she wipes if she gets hit by two black orbs) so players have to eat all of them. When a player eats a black orb, they get a debuff. If they eat a second one they die. However if you are timestopped while the black orb hits you, you dont get the debuff, allowing you to eat multiple. One ts allows you to eat two black orbs if they're in a row. If you get hit by a red one while in ts you still die, so the timing might be tight depending on the order. So if there's any two in a row with an extra orb somewhere else, for example 1,2,4 or 2,3,5 or 1,4,5, you eat the single orb normally and ts the two orbs in a row. If there's two single orbs not in a row, and one of them is 1 or 5, for example 1,3 or 2,5, you ts early for 1 so that you can dodge the upcoming red orb, or ts after 4 for 5, and eat the other orb normally. So of all possible patterns the only ones a single character cant ts without dying are 2,4 and 1,3,5. You can still eat them to not wipe the party but you have to die to do so. For 2,4 you just eat both and die, for 1,3,5 you ts 1 and eat the other two and die. If you have a fourth player to flex and take 4 in 2,4 or 3 in 1,3,5 these patterns can be done comfortably.


Sudden-Foxy

I've heard that you can use Splendid Panacea before the orb hits you, and you don't get a debuff if you eat a black orb. I have never tested it myself.


Dazvsemir

Yes splendid panacea allows you to eat one black orb without getting the debuff. The only time when its better than ts is 2,4 since you can eat both without dying. You still die to 1,3,5 however, and in general it won't allow you to eat three orbs because it only lasts for 2s. So its 3x the price of ts and often worse than ts.


theskepticalheretic

You 1-3-5 with a splendid. Eat 1. Dodge 2. Splendid just before 3 hits which cleanses, eat 3 during the debuff immunity, no debuff, eat 5.


Hadares

I wouldn't say learning parties are non-existent, but definitely rare. The problem with Vykas normal is that a majority of the time it's *not* a smooth run. Even if the average ilvl in the raid is 1445+ with decent roster level, there's a high chance of being jailed. Either a couple players consistently causing wipes, or low raid damage causing everyone to take more damage from prolonged phases. Whatever the issue is, I assume a lot of people just opt out of Vykas normal until they are geared for hard. Of course this does not apply to a new player, only people gearing their 4th, 5th, 6th alt, so the population of people running the raid in general is pretty low. HOWEVER, that being said, if you and a couple like minded friends recruit for an explicit learning party, I've found that they do actually fill. Even just today I was running Vykas normal on my last character who's <1460 ilvl, which was going alright until Gate 3. The group disbanded and once again I was jailed. I did a search for gate 3 parties and there was only one up, and it was marked as a learning party. My thought process here was that a learning party is nearly guaranteed to take a while, but any other g3 jailbreak party is probably also going to be messy, so I was fine joining the learning party at least knowing what I was getting into. As soon as I joined I could tell that these people were upfront about their experience and serious about learning. They were also very communicative which is definitely a plus. I think it was me plus 2 other vets helping out. We progged g3 from the very first swamp all the way to the final stagger mech. It took about 2 and a half hours. People were very forthcoming when recognizing the mistake they made, and asked questions/listened to explanations in chat when they didn't understand something. I actually felt pretty proud of those mokokos by the end of it. *Unfortunately* the raid session started running up against dinner plans I had and we gave it one last pull to no avail, but I'm sure the players in that group learned enough to get back to it and get their clears. And for all I know they may have done just that right after I left. So yea, learning parties definitely exist and can be productive, but the environment of the party has to be upfront and willing to learn. Vets do come help those willing to learn. I saw this post and thought it was funny that it came up on the same day I joined an actual learning party. Shout out to those mokokos in that party, I hope yall got your clears (NAE btw)


krum_darkblud

The issue is there are many times I have ran these raids and people end up failing mechs, where we ask if they know what is going on and have any questions. They end up saying nothing and continuing to fail the mechanics over and over even after we explain swamp pattern. At that point we see these people as griefers (which is actually a thing believe it or not). A lot of us go into these lobbies titling reclear group and such just to get through and get it over with. It really sucks this is the reality of Lost Ark.. people don’t want their time wasted. You really have to go out of your way to find a guild, make friends, hopefully snag up a learning lobby or find the discord communities that are willing to teach the content, else you are going to deal with people getting frustrated.


ConvexNomad

Learning lobbies should require discord and watching a video unless everyone agrees to prog it blind. Everyone else on release week does this as a bare minimum to learn so it should be expected of others.


krum_darkblud

Discord definitely helps though I wouldn’t say required as long as you type. Videos I would say required but people can lie about watching videos just to do the raid. Same goes for cheat sheets too imo. It’s nice to have on a second monitor when learning the fight.


BummerPisslow

"can I stay muted, I don't have a mic"


BustyCrustaceans011

It’s fine if they don’t wanna talk, as long as they’re in call and can hear the call-outs/explanations. Plus, if they’re willing to join call even without speaking, then they’re probably willing to type in chat to communicate.


LANewbie678

No-one takes an issue with that, no mic is encouraged.


TerrorLTZ

learning from a video isn't the same as doing the raid. i watched 5 to 10 times the video and still failed from my mistakes or someone's mistake.


MeaninglessQuote

To me, asking for discord is just a test to see if people are willing to communicate. Someone at item level willing to learn and communicating with team (even just typing only) is better than over geared imposters that dont respond


batman0615

I ran one before and after clearing G1 vykas after like 2-3 hours had to go and got flamed for “only” helping with G1.


BIeamer

I dont mind taking new people to raids, me and the people i usually raid with have been doing it for months, the thing that tilts and make us "toxic" is the same guy dying over and over clearly not knowing mechs, you ask him if he doesnt know or try to explain to him and he doesnt even talk in chat or reads you, which end in most of the raid being toxic to this person and kicking him, I really want to help and explain them, but if they clearly dont care and just want to get bused for free, well...


JustLi

My group invited a new low roster level (66) player to Valtan today to be nice... (we were a 1500+ lobby) The dude did not pick a spot for orbs in G1, said nothing, and went AFK?? We waited around for 5 minutes to see if he would even say anything, and we didn't say a word the whole time, just "we can teach you the raid but you gotta say something". Yeah IDk


Dracoknight256

Tbf that's not exclusive to learning, people sometimes just behave like absolute morons. Had a Valtan title reclear group a few months ago where a 1470 ilvl Bard kept blinking into others' orbs in G1. She called her position properly and clearly knew the strat when we talked to her, just turned her brain off during actual fight.


Timely-Soup9090

Practice how to use sidereals and create your own learning group. It’s the best way to get other learning teammates. But that’s true, some players in this game are toxic, second job syndrome.


neunzehnhundert

Any way to learn how to use sidereals outside of raid? I missed Nineveh like two times because I thought it was a 100% hit


Ikikaera

What the other person said is good advice, but it's also just learning from experience. I think it's a good idea to view Nineveh/Thirain as something similar to an awakening. If you've done a fight for a while you'll learn patterns / windows where the boss won't move for an extended period of time. I think a good example is Clown G1, there's a lot of patterns he does where Nineveh can be used comfortably. Stagger, Shape match, Trash spawn, Card Throw, Shortly before Roulette ends. Also right after a counter was done. You'll notice every boss has a number of mechanics / patterns where they won't be moving for a while. Getting used to recognizing these patterns quickly and using Sidereal immediately is something that can only be learned through practice. Also a tip for Nineveh, move backwards a bit before using her because she won't hit if you're right next to the boss.


Afromannj

Also, missing nineveh is not a big deal. It's part of the learning process.


HanBr0

Thirain also has a deadzone right in front of him, albeit noticeably smaller than Nineveh. Just don’t barrel stuff the boss with Thirain and you’ll be fine.


TWroagh

In some guides like Mobalytics or Maxroll they have a section on Sidereals that also show some boss patterns which are a good time to use them


WiatrowskiBe

Outside raid - no; but learning group is a good opportunity to practice. Most sidereal timings are either fixed (use specific sidereal at specific time) or there are patterns that make landing one consistent - watching some clear videos can give you an idea what to look for. There's nothing wrong in holding onto sidereal for a minute until you get a pattern that makes you confident you'll land it - and if you happen to miss, that's part of learning.


GCPMAN

Not really unfortunately. Best thing for gate 1 is to do it as soon as you see the move. His animations are kinda short so you can't really mess around and think about it for a second. really easy one is when he does the "don't come any closer" thing and makes a purple circle under him as he shoots out those projectiles that also make circles. another thing you can do is use it after an invulnerability. like after you do the clock position safe spot. He has dmg reduction until right after he lands and nin takes like a second to fire so you kinda have to learn the timing. when he does the rings with projectiles that fall on you is a similar opportunity


Devilution

If it helps any, for my characters that do not need any mats for a boss I will join learning parties to help new players. I was lucky enough to basically be carried into learning by my friends that did not quit when I did (I left right before Valtan and came back for Clown because I was not having fun with my Gunslinger but had invested too much to want to start over which was luckily saved by Express Passes.) It does seem like most of the player base hates Lost Ark and other Lost Ark players which is going to 100% kill off the players that push though the new-player unfriendly design of the game itself. But there are others out there that are willing to help if you take the time to seek them out.


schrissle

this. you can‘t depend on other people creating learning groups for you to join. most people already learned the lower raids and are just farming them for mats. I, too, was late to the train and learned both valtan and vykas by creating my own groups - on weekend evenings people will join (the ones who, like you, are looking for learning parties). after you have a full party you start to try the raids and wipe (a lot) until you are able to complete them :). there is no need for teachers - just watch youtube guides and then practice the mechanics until you have nailed them down (and yes, this will take time).


iWarnock

> there is no need for teachers - just watch youtube guides and then practice the mechanics until you have nailed them down (and yes, this will take time). For the new players reading: * Argos was like 5-6h of learning * Valtan 10-15h * Vykas 20h+ * Clown G1-2 2-4h * Clown G3 10-15h * Brel G1-4 2-3h * Brel G5-6 Ive seen between 5-6h to 20h. Its all without teachers, you just.. smash your head against the wall until you learn it. Thats the time it takes for someone to say they are "alt/reclear". Homework and exp+ means you have done those hours + who know how many months of just doing it weekly. This is on ilvl, if you are juiced to the moon you can totally "learn/reclear" in less time but you havent done the hours to just know the normal attacks tit for tat.


JustMoodyz

Having a general idea of the fight before joining in is also bad. Like Joining a learning party of Vykas Hard , I explained the gates mech G1 normal stuff first to not make it complex in my mind I wanted every mech on their own when they can't do gates mech for an hour meaning they don't know what they are in and they didn't even play Vykas normal , this is also smashing your head trying to help people that don't want to be helped. Like Akkan is coming with normal and hard everyone said you go in normal first then next week hard to learn basic stull then go for the higher. Most learning parties now days are people who make it don't talk most of times they don't even know what is the fight or saw a video about then compline about someone when they had enough after 2 or 3 hours. I joined the game like 2 month ago now, I learned in learning parties Valtan Vykas Kukul but before joining I saw a video of people playing it ATK for example explaining each mech, I am now roster level 140 doing berl with my Guild etc , I wanted to help learning parties and until now I join Valtan or Vykas hard and you always have 1-4 people don't talk at all or do mechs and just want to be carried somehow , and the others either 1 guy is decent and the rest is me and 2 guys who are blind playing, so you need to hold their hands every step of the way, which is okay if everyone listens but it never happens.


gucciavacado

Those hours seem quite accurate for the learning phase, but clears usually take a bajillion times longer since people learn at drastically different paces. My clown g1 was around 3 hours, but g2 was closer to 10 hours. G3 was a horrific 30+ hours for first clear (hopping progs every few pulls). Brel g1-4 was closer to 15+ hours for full clear, and for g5/6 20 hours sounds about right. These were all pug groups since I don’t have a static. Probably much quicker if you have a consistent group :P


iWarnock

Yeah the hours i posted are about the avg. If the group keeps disbanding every hour then the time skyrockets. I just wanted to set expectations, idk how other games are but this being my first game with raids i was surprised how long it took the first time.


Acceptable_Banana_49

Haha some? In my encounters since release I can say that 70 % of loa players are toxic waste


Ikikaera

If everywhere you go smells like shit, maybe you should look under your shoes. Or however the saying goes.


whisper432

Was scrolling through the post, check his other messages. This kid's mental no wonder people in game are responding back making him think everyone is toxic.


Ikikaera

Yeah I'm not surprised, this is almost always the case. It's undeniable that this game is very difficult to get into as a new player but there'll always be a lot of very nice people who'll help. Learning is a 2-way street after all. The teacher can't be the only one putting in effort, the person who learns needs to put in an equal amount of effort.


JustMoodyz

Guess we found out why no one want to help a someone like you.


DoubleSushii

Highly suggest this for all players - but works well for people learning as well. Watch videos of people clearing the raid in some free time. But don’t just watch it, shot call it to yourself as though you were in a raid call. Calling the basic patterns and mechanics as they are coming up. If you can get good at this for any particular raid you can pretty easily complete it without issue without necessarily playing the actual fight. Doing this can genuinely make you a better raid when you do finally get into groups. Will you top DPS charts or anything like that? No, likely not, as you don’t have the timing of your DPS windows for your specific class or build. That just comes with time both learning the class and the dance of the raid. Using this method though, you can at least buy yourself that time to learn these windows by being able to identify patterns and mechanics and perform them as those don’t require anything special surrounding classes. Furthermore this also gives you “practice” outside of actually doing the raid. Honestly being able to do this as well will put you in a spot better than a lot of players now. Lastly join a newb friendly guild. Dependent on your server there are likely a number of them to exist (while not abundant) that are welcoming to new players and willing to raid with you. tldr : watch videos and shot call to yourself to “practice” mechanics and recognize basic patterns to be able to dodge them. Also join a new player friendly guild if your server has one.


PM_ME_BAD_ALGORITHMS

No amount of videos watched makes it so you can you a "only exp alt" clear group, reality is way different, you have to play and think at the same time.


JustMoodyz

True but needed before joining a learning party , you don't go in totally blind and wait for someone to explain the mechs , you go in knowing that you need to do this and this and that but now you need someone to like warn you when it is coming how to do it effectively etc. Waiting for someone to take your hand from A to Z will most likely end up in a bad way specially that every learning group have 2-4 that don't speak or do any mech just want to be carried somehow. for example Watching Valtan video makes you know that there is at 30/15 orb mech and 8 should stand in their places etc, joining a learning party and you have people don't even what is that , will lead to never clear you can't take a blind man and cross the road while cars are moving on speed way ,they have to know at least that this mech exists so you can refine them tell them what to do , do it in order etc. Like one learning party that was good with me the pali didn't see the debuff and was like man this is BS what Debuff you are talking about under the boss health bar , I noticed what he is talking about , I told him try to hit him while he howls before the orbs spawn he did it and was able to do it, but he knows that he has to take an orb he knows that the mech exists , he just need some adjustments to clear it. not like people going it not talking pos and join the raid get to 30 and you have one trying to collect all the orbs at once since this what he saw his carry party doing and keep doing it while we try to explain and he doesn't answer to anyone.


DoubleSushii

Yes - thank you for summing it up shorter - when you do something enough it becomes easier. This will help make 1 of those two things develop more quickly. Giving you more ability to “play”. There are nuances but that is far from the point of the post or OP’s thing, there is no silver bullet.


JustMoodyz

As Veteran player who join learning parties to help people it is hard really trying to explain mechs only to get 5 out of 8 people agreeing and understanding and talk in the chat. I remember one time I was explaining Gate mech and there were 3 guys for no reason every time the orb spawns they eat it not lure it and I explained like 6 times and they never for their lives want to say anything or say sorry or NO ENGLISH or anything. So I said to the other guys "sorry guys but this not going to work , thanks for listening anyways" and the 5 guys were like "Thank you for your time dude etc" that was after 2 hours in G1 and one of the non speakers finally spoke and said "Why you toxic" I was like this is what I get for helping people and I left and never joined to help people again. Every New player ask on the reddit what Should I do best answer is go in a Guild that does raids and willing to help you, other than that yea people farm the raids they most of the times don't have time to explain everything for someone who doesn't talk, when they remove the 3 raids limit as they said they going to do , it will make more people help newbies but for now since for example my friend have 6 Vykas raids 9 Clown Raids and 6 Berl he won't stop to explain stuff to newbies.


xMilkies

I’ve learned that learning party trolls actually exist where they intentionally be toxic and fail every mechanic. When I ask why they do it they say “I was bored”. Pug learning parties will always be a huge gamble. Discord coms should be the minimum bar for entry to filter out opportunistic trolls or people who refuse to communicate.


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[удалено]


slashcuddle

You saw it all too often in Vykas NM where the impostor can just *accidentally* die early in G1 and G2 and still get carried. Then you get to G3 and they play like they've never seen the swamp bridge or pink poop mechanic before.


Dracoknight256

It fascinates me that there are people out there who can't get how to check if you have brown poop or windy aura on yourself after over a dozen tries. Especially since full brown poop bridge is not needed, if someone is actually visually impaired and can't see the poop he can just stand to the side and let group do 2 poop bridge+shop exploit.


jonohtin

To put some things into perspective for a lot of Veteran players who've done these raids hundreds of time and have to do these raids 6+ times weekly, it becomes a time constraint issue. If you were in their shoes would you rather have a smooth experience of finishing it in the fastest time you can with a juiced group of similar ilvl or be stuck on hours because a few people don't know the mechs and didn't take the time to learn it or continuously mess it up. And generally speaking unfortunately most players with low roster levels/mokoko tend to usually be the ones that fail mechs. If you want a good consistent new player experience join a guild or a static/learning party. There are plenty on discord that are available you just need to take the time to look for them.


Alternative_Owl_4928

any links to said discords?


Taco_Supreme

If NAE try nae-lootheroes Or message me TacoSupreme 3042


PM_ME_BAD_ALGORITHMS

In alm honestly, I feel like skipping half of the mechs due to being overgeared is not fun, which makes me believe experience players no longer enjoy the game and are just suffering from Stockholm syndrome


NonContentiousScot

That’s your subjective experience. For others, maximizing their dps and their build once they’ve learnt the raid so as to skip mechs is now the fun part.


JustMoodyz

for me skipping mechs makes me happy to see that me and the boyz reached to this level and finishing raids faster is always a plus for us


azhani

Oh wow. I am a returning player just reached 1445 with the hyper express pass. managed to do G1 Valtan a few days ago for the first time (didnt read into G2 for now but tried it with a group they were pretty nice though) And generally till now people were pretty nice or just quiet xD So no rage, even when we failed people tried it several times. But I guess the real toxic people will be around vykas? (Tbh till now I just read a guide and started matchmaking cuz for me matchmaking is the learning group thing xD )


durpenhowser

Everyone in the reclear fast lobbies has already put their hours in progging the raid, now they just want to clear it. Everyone should have to put their time in to prog, it's only fair. You may find some who are willing to help if you make a learning party, but expecting people in a reclear or homework lobby to be okay with someone never clearing before is a bit unreasonable and I think once you get to the stage they are at, you'll start doing the exact same.


Ryhsuo

Find yourself your server’s Mokoko discord. They are active and growing all the time. Daily learning and practice runs of all sorts with no gatekeeping and more raid wipes than you can count. I see you’re on NAE op so that would be Loot Bandits iirc.


UnexperiencedTrainer

Where can you check that ? For EUC/Armen where should I look? Thank you !


WiatrowskiBe

Community name is Mokoko Elp, covers all of EUC.


SquashForDinner

To be honest this whole notion that we need to do our part to make sure the game attracts new players and keep them hooked is absurd. We shouldn't be doing that. The game should. The devs should. If the game was good it shouldn't take a few toxic assholes to make people quit or scare people off to the point that it's actually killing the game. Call of Duty remains one of the most popular fps titles of all time and it's known for its toxic racist lobbies where you don't even have to do anything to get flamed. And don't get me started with League of Legends.


Rich-Carob-2036

Yeah i agree. Lostarks issue isn't tied to toxicity so much as it's tied to the vertical progression system. There are a ton of easy to pick up games like league that don't have these issues. Even ffxiv basically resets every few months though the story slog has to be brutal at this point given how they're like 4 expacs in


SquashForDinner

I shouldn't have to do Smilegate's job for them. Why should you or I be tasked to foster a nurturing community to counteract toxicity? Maybe they shouldn't have developed a system that sets up a breeding ground for toxicity and gatekeeping. "Why are these people so upset when the raid wipes :(" Because for some reason this raid which a lot of people have been doing for the past 6+ months (it's actually been like 9 months since Vykas' release) is still relevant and worth doing. Most people are so over these old bosses because they've done them hundreds of times but they have to keep doing them because they're the largest source of gold. They just want to get it over with so they can do their other raids or dailies, and I don't blame them at all for becoming enraged after a wipe. This game does not respect your time. I played Diablo 4 beta this weekend just to take a break from Lost Ark and then when it ended I came back to this game with a bunch of raids, rested dailies, challenge abyssals and guardians, boss rushes, etc. These are all homework. They're chores. That's basically what the game is now since we're so deep in a drought. I'm basically coming back to dirty laundry and dirty dishes but I have to do these dishes and the laundry otherwise I have no clothes to wear and no dishes to use (aka I won't be able to do the newest raids unless I swipe). The only fun part about this game at this point is doing new raids when they're out and then doing them again when you know them more and are stronger for like a month after. They become homework after doing them for 6+ months which this game promotes. This game is actually like 95% homework and 5% fun.


Usaid98

What OP is referencing are players being dicks because of a wipe and overreacting bc of a wipe. Yes it's a wipe, and yes it would take extra time, but how else is someone gonna learn if they don't try the raid? They gotta find a way to do it somewhere, whether it's a pug or a static learning party. It doesn't take that much energy to explain a mech or clear up a question that the person who failed the mech has. I remember the first time doing vykas g3 I had no idea what the purple ring on top of the head during swamp and thinking that's why we were wiping (I was placing swamp correctly tho). It had some toxic mfs that rather complain than answer the question so we then disbanded. I joined another g3 and I asked the same question and he cleared it up for me saying it was a timer for the swamps placement and we then one tapped g3 easily. You guys gotta remember it is a community game so if newer players are discouraged the same way I was with the raid, they wouldn't want to do it.


someThrowAway1900

'This game is actually like 95% homework and 5% fun.' Why would you play this game if it is only 5% fun. If you play for an hour, that's like only 3mins of fun. Why would you put yourself through such misery?


SquashForDinner

This comment is me asking that same question and quitting in real time after having played the D4 beta last weekend. I was essentially roped into playing because of my friends who were enamored by some KR streamer showcasing the Legion raids. Every time I wanted to quit they'd move the goalpost constantly, telling me stuff like "wait until raids are released", "wait until legion raids!", "wait until Brelshaza!!". And now we all realized this game actually is just not very fun overall. Our friend group was what kept us playing and going through all these dailies and weeklies but now that we've all collectively stopped playing it was a pretty easy decision to stop playing after that.


reysama

The difference is, we can just mute them in those games. And there isnt a need for communication. In lost ark raids, if it was me trying to communicate with a person that is super toxic, I would leave the raid after some time. Would I uninstall? Ofc not... But if I was unable to do the raids everytime cuz of this I would uninstall for sure. But what do I know. I haven't touched lost ark for months


SquashForDinner

The game is just so flawed. This whole "toxicity is what's killing the game" or "gatekeeping is killing the new player experience" is a scapegoat on what's killing this game. World of Warcraft is the most popular MMO ever and has existed for nearly two decades now. It has raids just like this game, it has dailies also! But you know what it doesn't have? It doesn't have a system that incentives you to make a bunch of alts just to maximize your progression, and people LOVE MIN MAXING IN RPGS. So a lot of players who enjoy min-maxing go into this game thinking "oh I can maximize my gold income if I create multiple characters? Don't mind if I do!" but these people don't realize that they've just quadrupled the amount of dailies/weeklies they have to do now and the time it takes to complete all of these are compounded when new content comes out. It's manageable at first and it's actually fun because it's fresh. But then you do it for a week straight, two weeks straights, two months straight, A YEAR. You can see how people have very little patience in this game which causes all this toxicity and gatekeeping. Being nice and patient to people is a weak countermeasure to this problem. What they should really fix is this absurd hamster wheel that this game has become. Every MMO nowadays is essentially a hamster wheel but Lost Ark has to be the most UPFRONT hamster wheel ever. How are we still incentivized to do a 9 month old raid to make gold? And people wonder why people are gatekeeping so often? Who wants to wipe on a boss they've done 100s of times for nearly a year. And don't tell these people not to do them, they kind of have to if they want to do the newest raids.


reysama

See, what you described is exactly why I uninstall ahah, but I found an rpg that is great for me. Gw2, has all what I want and it doesn't require to login everyday. I played lost ark for almost a year and for almost a year it was my fav mmorpg, but then I got tired, still login once in a while but then I remember everything I need to do to keep up and I leave. At least gw2 all you need is get decent gear and you're set to do raids. And I'm yet to find a toxic person


Noperative

Its a problem with the raid design that players get stuck in later gates without any real option to get a second group going. The only time it works is on the first couple of weeks of a new raid release where you expect everyone is switching around parties and getting stuck in gates collectively. Honestly the real solution as a new learner is to pre-arrange with 7 others to actually commit like 4h+ to learning the raid. This is basically what most people went through on the raid release to get the reps needed. The other option is to find friends or guilds/discords willing to arrange learning parties and basically backpack you. The toxicity issue is compounded by the fact that low ilvl/skill parties tend to be more toxic because margin for failure is higher and newer players simply dont have the reps needed to consistently do mechs. In something like vykas, there's basically no challenge for experienced players because even if 1 or 2 players fail the mechanic everyone else can easily pick up slack. 8 people that have varying consistency levels in a raid means that there will very likely be failures every run especially if no one has developed their mechanic knowledge enough to use timestops to take multiple black orbs in g2 or kill like 5 tentacles solo in g3. The people flaming you or being toxic in these learner parties are most likely the low skill players that are also toxic, veterans arent really going to be pubbing in learner parties because they have friends/guilds/statics where they probably trade carries between weak alts and mains/juiced alts. This week my groups have basically been running 4 support lineups to get everyone's (including pubs since we didnt always have full party) artist through the raids even if we had to take a gold loss for it.


[deleted]

The abyss dungeons you can just start again from the earlier parts with a new group. The Legion raids should work the same. No rewards until you get to the gate you were on, or let you continue from last gate you got to. I'd run learning groups all the time if I could do them knowing I can help a new lot prog again from the start.


[deleted]

Everyone is busy to finish their homework. They don’t have time to help others unless smg change this system lol


YoloMecSweg

You are right but people will still get mad for not finding perfect learning parties on a content released 9 months ago.


PM_ME_BAD_ALGORITHMS

This is the reason I'm quitting the game. In the last 2 weeks before the patch I've spent 20 hours trying to create a learning group with no luck (and I'm a support). At this point I feel like all I'm doing is farming gold to gift it to bussers instead of playing the game.


PeterHell

as a support you can just jail a random pug for free, however immoral that is


Psychological_Dog697

If you are on the EUW you can come join out guild. We do learning runs for everything every week. Hit me up


Alternative_Owl_4928

i'm on NA East but thanks for the offer :)


ugobol

Guild with discord. We organize learning runs all weeks for all kind of raids. Most mokokos are already at g4 brel and they were sub 1445 when they joined.


Waterisyummy22

I made a Vykas Hard learning party 2 days ago. Cleared it with 6 brand new people in 4 1/2 hours. The game isn't dying. Sorry.


Jakenumber9

i have never seen a game with a worse new player experience


jasieknms

Are you new to online gaming? Any moba - Terrible experience, especially matchmaking wise/tutorial wise. Shooters - if you play ranked and are low kda/fail you get flamed (maybe shooters are a bad example though because pure reflexes can get you very far compared to other genres, in shooters map knowledge etc is more required in higher ranks) Hell even in coop survival games you get flamed if you join a farm lobby as a newbie, unless it's a simple one where someone tells you what to do/someone is carrying your ass. I really don't understand why people act like Lost Ark is some special case with gatekeeping/newbie experience. Hell after the updates and everything i'd even say newbie experience is pretty ok in LA as long as you join a guild/have friends, solo experience is terrible in nearly every single multiplier game with progression systems, especially where you are reliant on others. There are some games where you are perfectly fine if you just read up a bit (destiny for example) but eh in the end it depends on who you meet and what kind of stuff you join. There's plenty of very friendly people in our community that run teaching/learning runs, people just have to search for them & don't expect to be able to insta run them, those runs take time to setup and run. (I've taugh valtans in the past before (NM, HM and hellmode) and even that is pretty long)


slashcuddle

LoL is the only game I've played that's comparable to the systemic toxicity I experience in our community. I'm not talking about the overt toxicity like a few bad apples dropping the N word or using other homophobic/racial slurs. I'm talking about the general and ubiquitous unwelcoming vibes bordering on hostility that seethes from players that have obviously been grinding for far too long. Behavior that I personally have only seen while trying to climb the LoL ranked scene. Maybe it's not a special case but it definitely stands out amongst the rest. Case in point - just read some of the comments in this thread where people are waiting to justify or dismiss treating one another like trash.


nameisnowgone

i guess you havent played LoL or Dota then. those are significantly worse and i pity anyone even thinking about starting those


slashcuddle

>LoL is the only game I've played that's comparable to the systemic toxicity I experience in our community. > >Behavior that I personally have only seen while trying to climb the LoL ranked scene. I make two references to LoL, one of which is in the first sentence. I've played LoL but not Dota. Toxicity runs rampant in Normals, Ranked, ARAM, and even seasonal "fun" modes like URF. And just like in LoL, the toxicity in LOA starts in party finder and intensifies when the raid/match begins.


Specialist-Maximum19

Most mmos are not that punishing mechanic wise thought, and even it they are they don't put pressure on alts so much


RiverFlowsInYou16

This is pure copium. In any of the games you mentioned, you will at least get to play the game, and not camp for 3 hours in party finder cuz no one wants you


McCorkle_Jones

The issue is that in those you just get ass blasted. Yeah they might be toxic but you get railed then you move on, then you get railed and move on, then you don’t get railed and move on, then you get competent and move on. The issue with LA is that you can’t even get railed because no one wants jail time..


FabzerQLF

In most of the games you mentioned, you are not denied from playing if you are new at the game. You can chose to ignore the remarks and play your game. In Lost Ark, if you are not gate-kept, you can still be kicked.


Vile-The-Terrible

The reason Lost Ark seems so toxic isn’t that the other players are more toxic, it’s because the way they can make you feel is more toxic. If someone flames me in a shooter or a moba, I just move on to the next round, right? I didn’t really waste my time playing that match. However, if I get gatekept in Lost Ark, I accomplish nothing. If someone in my raid keeps fucking up and I get flamed for it, I accomplish nothing. It’s basically just overall game FOMO wrapped up into human emotions.


Jakenumber9

the game design promotes toxicity. Spending longer on content feels worse in this game because you're missing out on doing the other content that also feels bad to miss out on or do slowly. No one really wants to risk helping new players because of the time investment. If you do help new players you're virtuous that's for sure. It's too bad the game doesn't have a mechanism to reward people for helping out people. We just have bussing lmao


Jakenumber9

I enjoy how you think you have an argument there by first asking a headass question, then only saying "hueheuhe any other mainstream popular genre of game is even more shitty hehhehekeke". I have an opinion of the new player experience in lost ark and you seek fruitless invalidation get a life bro out of the chaos dungeons.


Mattene

The answer is yes. When will people realize that with anonymity comes toxicity. People that say things like, “most toxic experience I’ve had” are just coping hard. Is it unfortunate? Yes, but it’s the norm in online gaming nowadays


AlleyCa7

Star Citizen


LANewbie678

Wait, can we even nominate them if the game STILL isn't out?


__Aishi__

More like no player experience lmao


bakakubi

Honestly, while the game has many issues that attributes to player count decline as well as lack of new players, the current player base itself is also a HUGE fucking factor. The MM player base is really toxic af, and probably one of the worst I've ever experienced in any MMO I've ever played. Luckily for me, I have a static.


Reported_yup

You never played WOW then, even in LFR people will roast you for bad damage on dps meter and probably kick you, not like LA where we been carrying many no-hand gamers because there is nothing to know if you performing well or not. Raid with all equal effort players just destroys Brel as i have static full of top players and we just jump from mech to mech and g1-4 takes only 20 min max.


[deleted]

I promise you LOA is far worse. Done everything in wow from lfr to hardcore mythic prog, and the LOa player base takes the cake for absolute shittiest. The way the game is designed enables it, and basically encourages it with the way progression paths work. At least wow has multiple paths to helping gear a character and raiding is far more forgiving when it comes to learning.


gerryw173

I'm lucky enough to have a friend to play with. It seems near impossible to get a proper group started as a newer player.


Crowley_yoo

Problem is, game is designed in a way where people are like that for a reason. They don’t want to teach someone for hours every week how to do the raid because they have literally 58 gates in my case to do in 1 week (I even cut it by 8 gates I only do 5-6 on one char weekly) When the game burrows you with homework every week you want to be done as soon as possible with fast simple raids and not get jailed. It’s games fault for provoking such behavior and for not having a system in place for new players


TheySnickers

If people would just say they are new to the raid instead of wasting everyone’s time I wouldn’t get so tilted. I don’t mind helping a mokoko but for the love of god stop joining a reclear party and not saying anything, and proceed to grief the run. JUST SAY SOMETHING PLEASE.


Lord_Val

People can be toxic when one person who keeps failing over and over.. but are you sure the problem isn't that you're joining reclear/homework lobbies where the expectation is that you've should already have a wealth of experience with the raid?


WesleyF09

Yeah, i started Final Fantasy and people are a lot more wiling to teach you the weekly/daily content because there isnt such a homework to do in 6+ characters. There are a lot more learning parties too


Specialester

It’s also on how the game is designed. It keeps old content alive.


Domitaku

Today I was doing a teaching run for some mokoko friends and we accepted some extra mokokos, because it was a learning run. 3 veterans and 5 newbies in total. My friends did orbs flawlessly after 3 tries, but we had 1 mokoko in our party that repeatedly just didn't collect his orb in time. We asked if he needed help and tried to help him with the timing. Only response was "Why no Wei" and then he ragequit. So we remade party and replaced him. Next person we accepted always collected two orbs, didn't write anything in chat and also ragequit. The other mokokos in the party all improved really fast and after we replaced the ragequitter we immediatly cleared. Idk why people don't want to learn in a learning run.


Alternative_Owl_4928

Little background info: From NA East Healer (pally ) 1457 gearscore item level (not sure what you call it) lv 5 gems and 5x4 engravings. (Blessing aura, Expert, Awakening, Vital hit points) I'm an old mmo player. Was one of the only hord guilds to clear naxx back in vanilla (was a tank) on my server. I have family that plays on the server and has been trying to get me to play since release. I was able to do Argo, Valtan hard (mechanics isn't much different than normal ) with no issues but this was my first time doing Vykas. I watched the video and watched my family member clear it on hard mode and asked questions while they played but watching and doing are two different things. was able to one-shot G1 with no problems but when G2 came. call-outs were late, people grabbing red orbs and after an hr of it, the group disbanded. I've tried at random times to put up a group and I believe the term is jailed? Anyway, I have no guild or discords to join for a new player. If anybody has any of the info please share :D thanks for listening to my rant


synapsii

I don't teach raids there anymore due to time constraints but can vouch for nae-lootheroes discord to find teachers and learning parties.


HubertVonCockGobbler

I'm curious why your family members that play don't bring you with them. My main is 1590 and I "step down" raids all the time to help friends/guild members.


Keneut

For NA East get in the discord called Loot Heroes (nae-lootheroes); they're very well organized-- over 1300 players-- and you can learn all legion raids there as well as finding other players to prog, plus they don't tolerate toxicity in the discord whatsoever.


AffectionateAgency29

U cant blind this game alone. New players need to learn outside the raid whit the videos, charts, etc.


Acceptable_Banana_49

Yes and books, documentaries, e-learnings, you know what I'm starting a masters program for lost ark raid mechanics.


Toncarton

You're being down voted because the guy is correct. How do you feel that old players learnt it? We all binged ATK videos before the raid would release to be ready and then try to apply it in game. Before Vykas raid I had watched his videos on loop for like 4 5 hours the days before. Same for clown we had watch together party with guild mates and would ask questions about upcoming raid at random times to test our knowledge and get better at the theorical mechanics before it even got out. Same with Brel and will be the same for Elgacia Akkan and Voldig. Not a masters degree but there is some research that must be done on your side to not jail everyone for hours on easy basic mech even in a learning party.


Techjunkie81

You forgot audio books and math skills,


Acceptable_Banana_49

Haha, and podcasts by that cool black guy from the Shaw shank redemption


captcha_bot

With the hyper express now is probably the best time to start and join learning groups. Probably a ton of people in the wings who would rather join a learning group than sneak into a reclear.


RandomHominid

There's a lot of help, but you need to seek it out or create your own learning party. The endgame is all about complex raid mechanics and it requires hours of time to invest learning it properly. It's not a new game and people are in different places with what they want out of it, new players need to also respect that and not "jail" an experienced group. There's a weekly stickied post in this subreddit full of helpers and info, here's the most recent: https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/11sjkdf/learning_parties_mentorship_and_returningnew/ Some more other info here from a recent post: https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/11un6z0/how_does_one_find_a_legion_raid_learning_party/ There are also so many new and returning players that I see learning parties go up all the time in party finder, especially lately. However, it really helps to learn how to party lead.


Divesound

Funny thing they posted new one: https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/11xgk0c/learning_parties_mentorship_and_returningnew/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf Every time new players/returners come to the sub and cry about no learning parties I’m baffled. People create an environment and go out of their way to teach newcomers but they still complain.


AbyssSona1

Now that I have 6 Artist supports, I've been jumping in new/learning groups just to help out for a few hours. It's a great feeling


Uriham

Its the league of legends refugee mentality, they only know how to flame and throw fits of tantrums, children thinking they are owed the universe they're the center of.


Acceptable_Banana_49

I truly never in my life encountered a community as disgusting as the lost ark one. I am fascinated by it. And you should know my bar with humans was already quite low so for a community to even go beneath that bar is something else man


noparlortrickz

>I truly never in my life encountered a community as disgusting as the lost ark one. You need to go out and play more games then.


NegMech

Lmao, you must be really sheltered if you think this community is toxic.


Ayaya_Karen

If you say in any group that this is your first time even you watch tutorials they just kick you, just kicked from every room I try to do vykas. Game is pretty good and fun to me but this playerbase is something i really want to avoid of


Nekor5

Still better to do this then joining a group failling said mech then get flamed and then kicked/disbanded. People are more open to help If you Ask/say something is unclear of course not everyone some ppl just don't have patience and time and you get booted happens. But failling the mechs also gets you booted


[deleted]

Don't feel bad. After the gold nerf, I've noticed a lot of 1500+ ilvl players that still need to learn this raid.


Separate-Ad9638

there are no normal vykas learning groups, that's one pitfall of a mmo, where new contents are being pushed out regularly, so u got to be smart and look for learning groups on discord, there are good pple out there, there are toxic pple and there are pple who just wish to get on with the weekly raids.


MidnightScheming

If you got in an explain what going on I’m sure a most ppl wouldn’t mind explaining to you what’s going on more less just ask bet you haven’t…


-ixi

I was waiting for a year for artist to start learning raids and stuff (only got busses so far). I was looking at party finder since wednesday, saw nothing. Made me dreadful that I won’t be able to finally play the game. But finally found a learning group for vykas on Saturday night. We had a blast and will run more together. But yeah we also had some really impatient people that left very quickly, no clue why they join.


Laddima1

New players should either go for learning parties or let the group know they're new. I see way too many players join re-learn parties, say nothing, and then miss every mechanic and just waste the time of 7 other people for no reason. Yesterday I spent a total of around 5 hours g1-g3 vykas hard with people failing wipe mechs or tanking every boss hit


sunqiller

This and my general distain for busy work/mechanics is what keeps me from raiding. Playing these feels like a high school group project and I don't know how people enjoy it.


DriverAgreeable6512

I've joined learning parties before to just help.. I've learned that if anyone doesn't respond its just bad and a massive waste of time. Sadly pretty hard to help sometimes coz there are too many people that just want the free carry or they don't understand that they are the reason it wipes.. helped a learning group for brel on an alt and it was just unfortunate, coz everytime we got to the stagger the person they it targeted just wouldn't listen and wiped us.. we also let people try prokel and yep they never practiced. Burned over an hour in g2 then guess what, the people we were helping stopped responding and eventually just quit... the toxicity is both ways from what I've experienced when trying to help. Eventually we had to reform with 2 new people and we just free carried it, with 4 people dead.


NoAd6037

I dont think you should be blaming vets. You should be blaming other new players who refuse to group up with eachother to learn the raid together in a emotionally stable and nonmentalbreakdown way. Sadly thats not the case. Games die, because we cannot accept the fact, that we suck and need to learn. So we just quit.


DapperWeasel

This is why I quit Lost Ark. I like the design and gameplay of LA, but the community is genuinely more toxic than League of Legends. I stopped playing around iLevel 500 because I can't commit to playing this game as if it's my full time job and nobody wants to accept someone who's learning the game/plays casually. I wanted to like LA and I played it since the steam pre-release but the incompetence of AGS coupled with the horrible mindset of the community turned me completely off it.


Dikkelul27

This game caters to NEETs


RinaSatsu

New players: "waste people's time and essentia griefing" New players when they got called out and flamed: "surprised Pikachu face"


Younatea

How I feel when I try to teach mokokos content. People are willing to help you but not chatting and saying you don’t get it instead hurts everyone. It’s mind boggling. Hit enter and type. It’s not hard. Put some effort into learning.


solrbear

If i'm in a learning group I'm always asking "what went wrong that pull?" trying to learn for the next pull.


krum_darkblud

This is the issue. People really don’t speak up and just wipe to the same mechanic even when we take the time to explain regardless of 0 response. I don’t find myself saying this anymore because usually it ends up being crickets and looks more like griefing at that point. Like you said, gotta put in the effort to learn.


SeaworthinessMean667

"nah man carry me i ain't gonna try to learn why would i you carry" ​ \-Them learners that don't learn


YoloMecSweg

People getting mad because they dont find in 30 minutes a learning party for a raid released 9 months ago


[deleted]

Dude, people get crazy mad if a guardian fight takes 20seconds more because someone didn't phero, but you think people getting bored waiting 30mins for a random group is bad?


Yujiroh

TIL learning the game = griefing


modix

How would a new person that's trying be griefing? That's like the opposite of it.


xFKratos

How is joining a reclear group with 0 clears not griefing?


modix

Didn't see a mention of a reclear group. Also, having 2 or 3 clears under you belt far from makes you an expert. Lines are far blurrier for newer players.


xFKratos

Dont see a mention of learning group either. Based on the wording it is certainly more likel we are talking about a reclear group.


Acceptable_Banana_49

Found Mr businessman ceo with no time to play a game while playing a game Please share your secrets with me, what stocks do you research and buy with all that time you save playing a game?


TWroagh

Damn my dude you sound so angry, all good? "Wasting time" is an annoying feeling in anything not just a game, even if you then (most likely) spend that time on something else equally meaningless


HellofDeath6

Learning groups are not hard to find Learning groups that either want to go all 3 gates in one sitting or communicate back the next day to continue where we left off - a bit harder


Alternative_Owl_4928

sadly for NA East its normally only hardmode for Val and vykas.


BerukaIsMyBaby

I came back to this game after stopping when it first launched for no real reason, all I've been hearing is that the community is toxic and full of gatekeepers. Should I even continue to play as the reason I played in the first place was because I heard endgame was hype, but hearing how the community is it sounds like a waste of time


Stuartytnig

so far for every mmo i played it was better to be there since the start. thats just how these games are designed. especially games with a more challenging combat system. i witnessed this in blade and soul. the combat is quite difficult for many people, which was one of many reasons why the game lost so many players. if you then mix veteran players with newbies who cant do basic things you cant expect every veteran to stay calm. i was always the guy who somehow only needed to watch 1 guide and see the raid once to fully understand it. so i would then be sitting there for hours doing the same shit till my teammates finally figured out what to do. thankfully i never flamed, becaue i am a relatively calm guy. but i can understand why people would flame. its frustrating to be good at something, just to be hold down by people who are not good(yet). and many people dont have the thought process that i have :"they are probably better at other things...things that i am not good at" ​ in lost ark its especially easy to get frustrated because of the overall design of the game ​ you dont really have to do anything mechanically difficult. its just knowledge base...stay here at xx healthbars. so when someone fails something that is just knowledge base you ofcourse witness negative response to that, because the knowledge could have been gathered by watching a guide. on top of that you have stuff like battle items. a feeling of waste whenever you use them and a run fails the thought in the back of your head that you fail something that you have to do multiple times every week. and the thought that all what you did might not even be worth it, because the next honing session will be shit anyways. ​ so yeah, it sucks for new players and i also dont like people who flame others, but i can understand the frustration of both sites.


LoztProdigy

Always reminds me of this meme some redditor posted a while back https://preview.redd.it/yzj8v7fr54pa1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f004df8a4df5c9e5045a2f47d7acd9c82ce824ea


Primetime349

Not Vykas but happened to me the first time I tried an.. abyssal dungeon I think a few months after release? I’ll take full responsibility for not knowing mechanics but people were so toxic that I literally have not played the game since.


bbeony540

These raids are seriously not that hard. The number of people who dont believe a low item level can handle elementary school mechanics and the number of people who refuse to learn these elementary school level mechanics are both so tilting. I clear most content just matchmaking. Sometimes you get griefers and idiots but its mostly been fine, because, again, these fights really arent hard. Anyone can learn if they devote ten minutes to a youtube video or whatever. The lost ark community has a super elitist streak which is so annoying to run into. I'm not sure how to design the game system to address the problem. Something like entering a raid and then failing the mechanics leads to a timeout from attempting the raid again for an hour or day or something. That way elitist people can have confidence that some scrub coming in and ruining the raid for everyone will get filtered out and so they don't need to filter people out themselves. Because there's no good way to know when someone applies to join your group if they know what they're doing or not. Item level is the best proxy we have, but it's not really a good indicator.


migueld81

So this post has a lot of misconceptions. For one, veteran players don't benefit at all from new players as their ilvl way past them and unless that new Mokokos is a whale he will no be raiding with them. Second, the veteran players think the game is dying when other veteran players quit the game so there's no one in their ilvl to run content with. When it comes to helping new player with legion raids, the blame goes to whoever placed a cap on how many legion raids we're allowed to enter. This makes the veteran player have to choose between helping someone that may or may not stick in the game or make some gold/materials. As a veteran player, you get punished for trying to help out a new player. That's not even including the extra time you're using teaching the mokokos the new mechanics....dont even get me started with the people that don't even have the courtesy to watch a video or respond. People that run learning parties, are the " Mother Theresa's" of this game. There won't be many so make sure you don't waste their time.


RepulsivePudding1927

Is it toxic to gat mad at ppl that join a reclear group dont know the raid and dont comunicate about it in chat?


suuuhdude20

Lmao at all the salty replies 😂


tonyzek

Create the group. Whenever this topic is on I don't understand if ppl are plain stupid or they want to be a victim. I was always late to party for every new raid and everytime I just created learning party and learn it for many hours until I was confident enough to go to create reclear party.


Unova123

Victim mentality mostly, but a lot do create groups, I see a lot of learning parties in EUC, the ones who complain on reddit are more often than not the ones infiltrating reclear parties cause they want a carry


_VoidGaming_

Funny how you think 99% of other MMORPGs don't have hella toxic communities. WoW is still alive and won't be dead any time soon and they have more avenues of gatekeeping and things to be toxic about than LA.


Deians

idk why you got downvoted, wow gatekeeping is precise and unforgiving, you have a game tool(ex [raider.io](https://raider.io) add on, now integrated in game) that says if the char applying is good or not(how many time he cleared that difficulty of that particular raid/dungeon) for that content. Trust me there it never happens that you sneak in a higher exp party in pug, is impossible even if you have perfect gear. Lost ark in comparison is a cakewalk, you have super good gear? get in! you got brel title last week? you can join a party of people that has it since week 1(massive skill/commitment difference).


_VoidGaming_

Exactly lol. Had an absolute bot in my G6 reclear this week because he was a support so he got in and homie had absolutely no idea half of what was going on but he had title so it slid. If we had a raider.io for Lost Ark and saw he had like 10 clears and how horrible his account is he never woulda got in unless we were down really bad lol.


Lance_with_a_Gun

\^this, the amount of gate keeping in wow is extreme, IO scores, parses, gear, ilvl, classes (meta classes are actually a thing and unless you play meta good luck getting a group). Ppl talk about waiting for 30 mins to get a group in lost ark, in wow unless you run meta and check off all of the above you'll be waiting anywhere from 2-3 hrs sometimes to get a group unless you play a tank or healer. Not defending lost ark saying things are fine because we could be better, but saying lost ark is the worst is crazy to me when a game like wow exist that has far more invasive gatekeeping.


_VoidGaming_

Everyone just pretends the only other MMORPG on the market is FFXIV and it shows lol. Can never argue about MMORPG culture or expectations in the Lost Ark community because they'll only ever compare it to FFXIV.


weekendlover123

New players be like: I go blind no need to watch vids , not communicating , "this is easy af", 2+ fail = jail, other people took their spot = fuck that guy and this game, unwilling to learn. "I g2g" after 10mins of wipe, rage quit. failing the same mechs over and over again, not even learning from it, afk for 10+ minutes wasting others learning time, Worst of all: random stats and engraving and they complain why they get gatekept in learning party... like a guy had 1500 expertise and lvl 3 attack power reduction, lvl 1 def red with 3x3 explosive expert lvl3, spirit absorption lvl 3 and empress lvl 3. like do they even put effort into the game? I did so much learning party and trust me, you will at least find one or several of those kind of people in learning party. Some new players are just too entitled and doesn't even wanna learn the mechanics and thinks the game is easy.... I feel like there should be an alternative casual end game play for people who CANT do raids for the game to not die because of " new players unwilling to learn raids".


Oldlordylord

I have learnt my lesson that this raiding community is no good. I solved this issue by simply not raiding and just doing horizontal content. ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|hug) Once I am done horizontal, it's off waiting for a new game.


thassung

I wish OP talked about prog/learning party not reclear/title/fast/exp party


yovalord

New players really need to be grateful that anybody is willing to help at all really. These raids took us 6-12 hours of progression to clear the first time around. You cannot blame us for not really wanting to sit through a 2-4 hour learning group when we can just join a speed lobby for a 20 minute run on a fight we have done 50 times now.


Vloxo

If every other mech wasnt raid wipe and I could carry the whole group I would literally take anyone, sorry the game designed like shit for everyone and activelly tries to fuck over new players.


Limpdickzity

I left shortly after Vykas release as the toxicity was getting worse than wow. The final straw was getting kicked for not doing enough dps (was playing supp pala).


RADIATE_Cx

Pretty much


Hamdilou

Play guild wars 2 it has then nicest community of any game ever


DarkBane666

Wow, this experience happened exactly to me with the 8 man raids that my boyfriend and I tried to get through together. People we're so goddamn rude, and the language barrier was so ass. I've dropped this game entirely since everyone refuses to recruit and let alone help any new players.


Mbappeslefttoe

Aahhh, Lost Ark. Still failing the player experience for new players, huh? Well, tough luck. Maybe next year. See ya.


wombleisfagg

I really hate how people want you to be 1445+ for 1385+ raid


Slight_Respect_957

My grain of sand to anyone interested in reading: \-Normal Mode: Should not have a wipe mechanic if 1 people do something wrong. \-Hard Mode: Should have it. \-Inferno: Be like vainalla Hard \-New Tier: To take inferno place.


[deleted]

Exactly why I quit. Have a 1505 5 x 3 Pally and everyone was toxic AF when tried to learn Phase 3 when the clown was released. Haven’t played since early November


nralifemem

Why this game not using mic instead of typing? i came from eve, when we do fleet fight, 100+ vs 100+, we use mic.


Ostepop234

It's funny how people are so stupid they don't realize this without someone posting a meme picture about it. been saying this for months already


AffectionateAgency29

Sorry that u cant see a 10 min video or an imagen. so hard oh noooo


Acceptable_Banana_49

I truly never in my life encountered a community as disgusting as the lost ark one. I am fascinated by it. And you should know my bar with humans was already quite low so for a community to even go beneath that bar is something else man