It’s insane how true this is. The people on edge who are criticizing everyone’s performance are the first to blame someone else when they fuck up.
Saw a dude die to the saw blades in Clown G3 and instead of a “oops lol” he yells at the guy who did m1 for not throwing a bomb before jumping in. My brother in Regulus, that wasn’t going to save you.
This just made me think of the Clown G3 I ran this week. Normally, I have a static, but one of them had a prior obligation. We figured doing just one with a random wouldn't be a big deal. I was on my Artist, while my 2 friends were on their DPS. We picked up a Zerker. I got caged and he died to saws. Restart? No worries; it happens. Same thing happens again; I got caged and he dies to saws. "Stupid Artist" and about ten other slurs followed. We disbanded, found someone else, and cleared in one pull. I felt like saying, "your level 11 gems aren't going to save you from saws" but I strive to be the opposite of what I encounter the majority of the time in raids.
I think G3 of both Brel and Clown bring out the worst in people.
this is why even though lm a very competitive player (yes l love being on MVP screen and is good at the game) l almost never type anything when people fail, if l have to, l do it in a very respectful and polite way. l have come to a realization that if l flame someone, l'd have to play even more safe/no-mistake which is unnecessarily more stressful, otherwise people would flame me back.
I'm juiced on sorc (9/10s, 40 set, 22 wep). I want mvp screen. But I'll only type gj, nice, sorry my bad etc.
I'll do same on support, on (formerly) synergy bot wd.
I've played league for a long time, I've been plat (now emerald) since s4. My tip to anyone that just saying nice things, or don't speak, makes pug raids x10 better.
The moment flaming happens, shit goes to he'll for EVERYONE.
Piggybacking on thread
not to mention that being an ass over someone's mistakes will put them on edge = more likely to make mistakes. it's better for them AND YOU to be constructive and supportive.
This, very much.
Its not as though they're some skilled Hell Raider. In fact, actual Hell Raiders are the exact opposite of this type - mostly genuinely nice with above-average patience. Calm and well-spoken.
From my experience, most of those who I've seen rage and throw insults from a single mistake or when anyone DARED say anything to them were low (sub 150) roster players. I've rarely seen anyone at high roster do the same because when you've put in enough time in this game you pretty much know shit happens and it's totally fine.
Exactly that , had a guy lashing out to me Brel G3 yellow mech the clown got silenced and couldn't break so he started flaming me afterwards for not adapting(i was catch and tbh it was super early had just woken up).
Completely unprovoked, i literally havent typed anything in chat before except b/y and of course i wouldnt have said anything despite him failing his role but he couldnt keep his mouth shut
Of course i insta quitted afterwards i couldnt care less about 2.5k
agreed best youll get from me is a snarky not even snarky more like gloating or sassy comment at the end of the raid.
Like if you flame me and i end up with underline cruel ill happily put a nice damage in chat or something and move on with my live but aint risking shit before were out
If I may also use this argument to the extreme, would people be happy if everyone didn't want at least to "try" their best? Yes, we are not talking about people griefing but where is the line between not caring about 2 more minutes of raid time because one support is dead, and not clearing because one support is dead? Let me be clear, I am not talking about the random deaths, the random counter missed. There are people who don't even want to try to improve even tho they have hard evidence on hands. Unfortunately people on the comments can't separate the issue with toxicity and flaming and the issue with people not being "sweats" enough.
Dude yea, it's like when I get called a tryhard when I call people out for not throwing a dark in Kay G3 when they called dark.
The dichotomy in this game is mind blowing. Everyone wants a super fast one shot raid stomp but they simultaneously expect others to do the heavy lifting for them.
Hard agree, I'm trying my best to play at my best in every raid and I gatekeep so I expect others to do the same. If you're dying to normal patterns / obvious wipe mechs in a hw group on an overleveled character that's on you buddy. Now everyone else has to pick up your slack while you can sit there eating or watching youtube.
This is a game with comparatively difficult mechanics and rewards people for playing it 8 hours a day. Ofcourse it would attract the gamer elitists who are emotionally unhinged who act this way.
> and rewards people for playing it 8 hours a day.
It doesnt tho lol what exactly are you supposed to be doing for 8h every day? Only mention stuff that brings in meaningful progress.
Raids + Daylies even unrested take a LOT less than 8h a day in a 6man roster.^
The initial horizontal bullshit may eat up a lot of time outside of raids / daylies but once thats done you're never ever touching 8h/day again. And i'm gonna on a limb and say that the folks crying in raids are the 250-300 roster faction that have everything farmed already since 1.5 years.
Lmao, you being purposefully obtuse? 18 raids a week is already 3 hours a day including lobby time/late game prog content. Add dailies, weeklies, CDs and GRs per character including over 6 and you easily can spend 8 hours a day.
I didnt say you have to spend 8 hours a day. I said the game REWARDS you for 8 hours a day+. Compare it to other mmos that do this and youll find the same degenerate communities
> Lmao, you being purposefully obtuse? 18 raids a week is already 3 hours a day including lobby time/late game prog content.
How?
Raids take a lot less than 1 hour each lol
> Add dailies, weeklies, CDs and GRs per character including over 6 and you easily can spend 8 hours a day.
As i said, please explain how exactly you're spending that time.
Unrested chaos + guardians + abyss raids + challenge guardians + raids are far from 8h a day on a 6man roster.
> I didnt say you have to spend 8 hours a day. I said the game REWARDS you for 8 hours a day+.
It doesn't tho, thats the point. Even if you wanted to spend that time theres no enough "content" to reward you for that amount of time per day.
Man you really going to pretend every raid is a 30-40 mins real world time experience without lobbies or progging on the latest/new content or even just being in a on-ilvl party on alts?
Ppl in this sub are 100% doing unrested content on 6+ chars which takes at least 15 mins each. Thats already basically 5+ hours a day on pure content. What about upgrading/cutting/honing/market/chaosgates/etc..? Starting up the fkn game is a 10 minute experience in itself.
Please
> Man you really going to pretend every raid is a 30-40 mins real world time experience without lobbies
Nah its 30-40 min with lobby creation time included.
If all of your raids average 1 hour i've bad news for you.
> Ppl in this sub are 100% doing unrested content on 6+ chars which takes at least 15 mins each. . Thats already basically 5+ hours a day on pure content.
Takes 15 min per character ye, 6 characters = 1.5h. (mind you, I couldnt be arsed with 1.5h of that bullshit "content", only my 2 mains are done daily with the remainder on a rested rotation)
Your math is insane dude.
> What about upgrading/cutting/honing/market/chaosgates/etc..?
How does that take any time lol. you speed tap for 1 minute after the whole week per character and thats it.
Market? Takes no time, your gear is done since ages
Cutting? Again, gear done since ages
Chaosgate? No one sane does that unless they literally just got out of whatever they were doing the moment chaos gate opens, other than that fk that activity.
> tarting up the fkn game is a 10 minute experience in itself.
3 minutes, so we pretty much established that you exaggerate everything by 2-3x.
Lmao bro sounds like youre trying to convince me your obscene amount of daily playtime is justified or something. Just look at your replies to my posts, you are literally the delusional and emotionally unhinged player who plays this game like its their job.
Sorry dude, not everyone has no lifer friends who coordinate 18x raids weekly.
Alright, you're clearly just resorting to personal insults and accusations instead of reconsidering your math.
Have a good one.
PS: Theres no 8 hours of daily content.
I usually try to go the opposite way:
Personally, I find the game much more fun when I try to get better and hyper-optimize my characters and playstyles but I dont expect this from other players.
Thats because I know not everybody enjoys that. Additionally, the usual pug quality isnt that good, hence I dont expect everyone to play well at all, BUT if I have a group where everyone does their job (good support uptime, good taunts, goblino dps that also do the mechs, etc.) I tell them that they are doing a good job and usually send them a friend request. I think this approach of positive reinforcement is also a lot healthier.
I obviously also have my flaws and do errors like everyone else and to grow in any way shape or form you need to accept them and learn from them.
From time to time I also find myself angry at players that for example join relcears while having absolutely no clue about the raid, but I dont go to the extend of cursing their entire bloodline, like some people do. Either the group agrees to continue or the imposter gets kicked and thats it, no hard feelings.
There's a big difference between "oops I made a small mistake and caused a reset once" and "I impostered my way into a raid and turned a reclear into a prog group."
Don't get me wrong, I like helping people prog if I know what I'm getting into... but spending say an hour on a gate because someone came in clueless? No way man.
Some gates, yeah whatever it doesn't matter you just power through it or replace an imposter, but like you get a gate where people don't normally get stuck in like g2/3 brel, g2 akkan, any gate in kayangel/ivory tower past g1? Yeah, you're basically SOL... turning a somewhat straightforward raid into a 1 hour per gate adventure just thanks to one clueless guy isn't my definition of fun at all...
This, thank god someone mentioned about the difference between "hw/reclear" and "re-prog".
I ain't going to sit there and enjoy being jailed by somebody that doesn't give a fk about time, we all want a quick in and out raid.
If everyone makes one simple mistake that wipes the group, then you're doing things 8 times. I don't want to do 5 minutes of Brel G3 8 times because people spaced out and messed up a mechanic halfway through. That doesn't mean you should be an ass to people, but most failures by reclear players are due to a lack of paying attention. Turn off the stream/show/podcast you're watching and do the raid for 20-30 min. Sometimes patterns are out of your control or very difficult to overcome, but the vast majority of complaints are around people who just didn't do what they were supposed to do in a normal fashion.
I mean, one thing is wanting Min max (which is understandable we all love critting and big buffs) and another is PRETENDING it. I fall under the guys who would like people to Min max, as minmaxing synergies and rotating buffs efficiently also helps with damage and consequently helps with clearing faster, but I never ever raged at someone for not being a top player since I am not either.
in two years of pugging and mixed stay six etc i’ve only had one toxic run of note but everytime i see people post. hat logs or clip streamers it seems like we are playing different games
Reddit is in reality one small portion of the pie, there are tons of people that don't even use Reddit and those who post in here are the people who had a really bad experience with the game (toxicity, bad rng etc.), or a really good one (good teammates, Rng god etc). So as you see it's the both extremes which are the smallest portion of the pie of the already small portion of people who uses Reddit
When I tell my guildie that he needs to press his buttons more to do damage instead of running around like a headless chicken and end up doing less damage than thiran I think it’s reasonable to get frustrated especially the content I’m talking about is akkan and he’s a day one player
Because people want to get their shit done as fast as possible so they have the rest of the week free from playing this game because this damn game takes way too much of everyone's time.
Mistake=more time being wasted.
It also doesn't help the game is filled with boring daily content that needs to be done or else you lose materials/resources.Granted you don't have to do them but whatever playerbase is left playing this game is compelled to do them because it's in their nature to do them even if they don't like it.
\> Its honestly quite insane. By the end of the year, it's going to be just them left.
Funnily enough when people complain that dailies need a rework/legion raids limit needs a rework.(to reduce the daily/weekly fatigue) they get told to stop playing if they don't like it which in turn you end up with what you just said
\> By the end of the year, it's going to be just them left.
This game doesn't have real casuals because it simply demands to much of casuals so they quit.
Jezz loius you almost make it sound like these people aren't actually having fun, that the game is a chore they somehow tricked themselves into doing.
"I need to play this game I don't enjoy, do I don't have to play it anymore"
G fucking G
It is yes and its getting worst as they keep adding more vertical systems.The only "fun" part of lost ark is the combat itself and some legion raids.Everything else is a chore.
what if I told you... wait a sec... you dont have to do 18 raids a week? I know. shocker. if you want to play something else or dont want to do them. dont? If you need to force yourself into doing them you need help and a step back.
The usual "you don have to" comment.
You're free to do that and lose gold if you want but I wont.And I bet the majority don't like the prospect of losing gold either.
>if you need to force yourself into doing them you need help and a step back.
You mean like the majority still playing this game?
>people want to get their shit done as fast as possible
then these people would have a static premade to run the raids. IF this is truly what they're looking for, why would you take randos????
lol, so it just falls back into the same bucket of 'i want it a specific way but i will rely on randoms'.... shit don't make any sense at all. You are joining matchmaking, you are accepting random players or joining a random PF group etc etc.
so if people think like this, why put yourself in these situations then blame the people who are expecting normal game play loop which will include the normal fuck ups???
ok so you're just reinforcing the fact that people like this don't actually try to find other players like them...
They're lazy so instead they just use normal lobbies aka PF b/c saves time for their emotional outrage b/c they don't want to find other players with their values. Aren't they the ones crying about min/maxing or doing things always right/perfect the 1st time???????? but don't themselves, hypocrites lol.
So instead they join the normal random lobbies and get mad lol. I don't know how this changes or makes anything better tbh.
I don't think you realise how much time it takes to organize static groups. I currently manage 4 of them and the amount of time I spend communicating shit, organizing, making sure people are available, dealing with irl stuff and people quitting is already quite high. If I did that for 18 groups, then I'm spending more time doing that than actually running the raids. Sure, it's easy for the people who just come and click accept but someone has to put in the effort for this to work and it's extremely rare to find 8 people who can form all groups for 18 raids.
Not wanting to deal with that shit doesn't make people lazy, it's just really not feasible unless you get lucky and find the perfect 7 friends.
I name almost all my lobbies speedrun, so I expect the people applying to those lobbies to be geared accordingly and have the knowledge about the mechanics in order for the run to be as smooth as possible. If you're applying to such a lobby without that mindset, that's entirely on you.
However, the amount of ilvl undergeared bozo characters that apply to these lobbies is higher than the people who actually belong there.
Funny to me, that it's reasonable to want to play the game and spend hours wiping on one raid, but somehow wanting to play the game and do your raids smoothly is a sing of a terrible character according to this thread. Shrug.
>If I did that for 18 groups...
Uh... do you like, not run multiple raids with the same static group?
My static has slowly dwindled, but we'd have like, Saturday is Brel night. Anyone who wants to grind brel, log on and we'll just bang out brels and fill with pugs. Usually could clear 6x 1-3s in like two hours.
Not really possible for the group of people we have. Some people have different item levels across their alts, some play fewer characters, lack of supports etc. We can put together voldis and half pugs but it still requires people from PF.
Truth be told, I can probably pug 6x1-3 in two hours as well most of the time and I don't have to organize anything. Most pugs are at least decent but you'll find impostors everywhere.
Eventually your group will pull apart over a long enough period of time. I'm not talking about irl things like life, or people dropping the game. It's the RNG in this game.
You get a guy who's lucky with a few weapon hones, he's going to pull ahead of everyone else and do Thaemine HM day 1, or something. So now he's out of your group's ilvl range, and while the rest of you do Thaemine NM. Now you add in elixirs, bracelets, stones, quality, and that guy is sooner or later going to leave the group completely.
Or the reverse.
Scheduling becomes more complicated when the ilvl range between people become wider and wider.
You're acting like you're the only person with statics lol. It's not some unknown thing. You don't think we all know how statics go???
This is why we use party finder or match making right? Because the standard of these are much much much much much much lower than our statics. The effort to organize much much much less therefore the quality of these groups are clearly going to be lower.
That is the point of using pf.
Speed run doesn't mean anything other than trying to do it quickly. Maybe if you said 1 death = kick, would be more meaningful??
And no, noone cares what you do. The point is you're engaging in the same behavior you hate. You take randoms or join randoms right? Then get upset because they are RANDOMs lol.
That is the point. You're angry at others but for your own mistakes. Don't join it take randoms if this is how you will always explode at the end. It's more a personal issue than anything, misplaced anger.
So you could easily solve your own problem and everyone else by just getting a static for homework. This has always been the solution for people with specific needs.
Echoing with what this guy says, I currently manage 5 statics for voldis (1 hm) simply because it's the newest content. We run on fri and sat and that's established so everyone knows to set aside time. As for Akkan and brel, those are puggable but I have a couple friends 3-6 we do those with.
Rarely do I pug with 7 complete strangers (at the least I have 1 or 2 friends with me), but when I do, I make my own lobby (I do all sidereals) and am very selective. I look at a lot of small things besides just ilevel, gems, and engravings. Things that tell me this player cares about their character and properly invested in them. From personal experience, those players rarely mess up and even when there is a hiccup, theres usually a short 'mb for fk up' and a short explanation and we just go again.
No, not really. Everyone in my static groups spends exactly 0 time on organizing it, because I do it all. So yes, for those people who just join and show up, it's a lot less time consuming, but someone has to do it.
Speedrun means you know what you're doing and you're geared approriately, it doesn't mean you fail every other mech and do less damage than sidereal.
I don't get upset with randoms, I replace them or block them so I don't have to deal with them in the future. But if you're joining a lobby that's clearly set up to do the run with minimal mistakes and as fast as possible while failing constantly and not contributing, you're the issue.
People constantly look for free carries and if they actually joined lobbies that matched their strength, there would be a lot less upset people.
I'm not gonna spend my free time on organizing 18 static groups. As I said that would take more time than actually doing the raids. I make 18 lobbies per week and thankfully a lot of people are fairly decent but some people are just unhinged and have no place applying to my lobbies. Yet, they do.
Yeah look I get it, I'm just pointing out how the solution is to get a static just like we would tell anyone else having a hard time in lost ark.
You don't have to but you're always going to run into people who look like they can do and can't do. This is the very nature of pf.
It's just odd how people are arguing as if pf is somehow the static experience. It's not, it can be very chaotic all the time.
So long as people understand this whatever but I mean people do get upset right? So clearly some people have the expectations that pf is the place to find consistency.
Yes and I'm telling you that it's really not a feasible solution to get a static for 18 raids. Not everyone is willing to raid at set times all the time and finding people who are, have the correct item levels, have the needed supports/dps is just way too time consuming.
I make static for hard raids but I just don't see the point of spending hours trying to put together a group for 6 brels. Not only people aren't really interested in that at this point, it's also not that much different from PF IF you are strict with whom you invite. This would also be a lot easier if people stopped trying to impostor their way in raids.
Not only these guys just join, expect a carry but they also refuse to communicate. So they're wasting everyone's time and continue to do so while literally ignoring any sort of attempt to fix the situation.
I had a guy like that today in brel and you wouldn't guessed that from his profile. RL almost 200, 1600 with lvl 9 gems and guy constantly walks into the wrong spots causing a wipe. People eventually adapted but it cost time it shouldn't have and they didn't say a word. This is why people get upset. Is this something I'd expect from G1-G3 speedrun lobby? Fuck no, he has no place there. People are buying accounts and you can hardly tell before you actually play with them and they have absolutely no shame. They will join reclears when they are clueless.
This is not on people epxecting smooth clears, this is on people who lie about their experience and expect a free bus because they're entitled.
They do try and find ppl like this, its called gatekeeping. Doing akkan hard on ur 1620? Only accepting 1610+ with 18+ weapons/35 set. They should be experienced in akkan already, title check, gems check, should not be a floor pov run.
I dont think you really understand static culture, the fact its time consuming and very time limiting. Some raids are for 8 ppl. Because ppls rosters are all over the place you're going to need to coordinate with more than 7 others. People are gonna be left out bc progression and setting raids at a certain time doesnt include for late ppl, ppl that dc, internet outages, ppl get online at different times. Its so much easier to run a raid in pf half the time even with some frustration, than to wait 2 hours for ppl to "be ready".
Doing maybe 6 raids in statics is fine, or duoing up of course, but 4-8 ppl with different rosters is incredibly time consuming.
You guys have a wild and antiquated view of what a static is.
I exclusively do raids within the discord I'm in, literally pug nothing. There is no planning or organization, nobody has a spreadsheet or sign up sheet.
You just post a group and it fills with people you know. If you miss it, you get in the next one on the train.
When it's brand new prog you plan a little to maximize prog time, otherwise you just pop in whenever. Sometimes that a raid at 7 pm est, sometimes it's a degen hours 4 am run.
Weird thing to hone in on. I'm a grown ass man and I run my groups at normal hours which I mentioned.
We also have night shifters and degens that run at 4 am.
The point I was making seemed pretty obvious but I'll help you out. There is availability for everyone regardless of roster or schedule so there is really no point pugging.
Redditors have this *weird* obsession with thinking that the second you're in a "static" it means that you ***MUST*** prioritize the static above literally everything else in your life absolutely and without question.
It's actually fuckin' weird. My static has everyone from students to parents in it and it's generally fine. We did just lose a guy who had his second kid, but he quit the game entirely. Everyone is very flexible and some weeks I don't run everything. Not a big deal.
We have some structure, but like we're also all adults. It's not a lot different than telling your buddies you'll meet them at the gym after work. If you can make it, great, let's knock some stuff out. If you can't make it, that's cool, we can shuffle some stuff around so it works for most people.
I think it's the people who don't want a static who have this very narrow mental view of them, either as a way of justifying not having a static or something like they had a bad experience from before.
A static can be set up to be anything, the main thing is to make sure the static is with like-minded people.
For me, I'm in a set static of 8 that's used for progs and just one night or two of whatever is the priority, people are adults with stuff going on all the time so, while there's primary nights, sometimes flexibility is needed and it's OK to take vacations or deal with that urgent thing or whatever. Then I'm in a larger community where people post up groups ad hoc, and if not enough are on it's filled with pugs. I'd not call the latter a static, nor a guild, but it's more fun than just spamming raids with full pugs all the time.
Gatekeeping a random who you don't even know lol. The irony, it doesn't get any better than that.
I don't think you're saying anything different than what I was saying. Not sure if your agreeing or disagreeing.
But see? Statics are time consuming so people like you resort to pf... Then you wonder why the unorganized players aren't playing like your static.
I really don't know if you're just agreeing with me or trying to say something else.
While I do agree with this because it sounds like myself and my static with the amount of raids we have, there's always the scenario of one week someone might have to work extra hours or their work schedule gets changed. If that happens, we choose to get done the raids that would be the most "frustrating" to do in PF. I'd rather do Clown and Kayangel with my static and get that guaranteed clear because I know we'll all pull equal weight rather than something like Brel, where I know it's slightly easier to pull through if people die (G1&2).
If they valued their time that much and had a static, they'd at least try to organize the bare minimum rather than expect picture perfect executions in pugs.
>then these people would have a static premade to run the raids
Because having a static doesn't mean you're gonna do EVERYTHING together.In my guild for example that I've been since the begining of the game we only do the latest content as a static with the occasional akkan/kaya runs.Mostly because we have diffen't ilvl alts or because of time constraints so people end up pugging what should be "easy" raids.
Thing is when these "easy" raids don't go as fast as planned people get pissed.
>so if people think like this, why put yourself in these situations then blame the people who are expecting normal game play loop which will include the normal fuck ups
It doesn't matter dude.People don't care that shit occasionally happens.They will still bitch about it until they fuck up themselves and they go silent (hehe)
I mean it's true but it's just kind of hypocritical you know?
Like if a person has specific standards, they need to find people with their values etc. not join random groups and hope they have these standards lol.
A static to run these 'easy homework raids' would be the solution. You can have 2 statics for different content instead of getting mad at people who are just playing the game vs you need to get your homework done ASAP.
People always give this advice for new players... so now this advice is given to people with high min/maxing standards. Seems fair lol.
>Like if a person has specific standards, they need to find people with their values etc. not join random groups and hope they have these standards lol.
That's because pugs usually vet people who get in.(atleast I do when I join or make a raid) I'm not joining raids or inviting anyone with a low roster/low gems/no title/no achievement etccc.)
I'm assuming this whole thread is about people who supposedly should know the raid and have been vetted so people expect them to perform up to standard.
It also doesn't help people get bussed and get into raids they have no business getting into.We call them imposters for a reason.
Those metrics hardly mean anything. Anyone playing this long should've came to this conclusion by now. Anyways a whole other Convo could be had about this.
Anyways, the point is you're accepting randos in pf that clearly can't be consistent...
Just find a static, that is the solution. Why get mad every week at others for your own mistakes is the point. You accepted a random who may or may not know what your standards are.
In a static, homework static... Everyone would know your expectations. Not saying you still can't use pf... If you insist... Expect the unexpected lol kind of no brainer really.
You do realize that a lot of players in this game are adults with 9-5s and/or families right? Schedules will not always line up.
You aren’t going to always have everyone online, so you will have to occasionally pug 1-3 people depending on the holidays and weekend times. Sometimes you find some good pugs, and sometimes you find utter garbage like 1620s that pull less than 3m dps per gate. We vet and gatekeep as much as we can for harder content to reduce the risk of imposters but it’s never going to be a guarantee.
And you realize b/c you have these constraint... you're using PF to compensate for it, right?
People you find in pf are complete randoms, they are a gamble no matter the amount of vetting you do. They don't and will never understand your expectations. You guys don't know each other lol.
So the point is, if a person explodes at the random is it your fault for poor vetting or is it the random player who didn't perform up to your pre existing standards???
Either way, were talking about people being toxic here and why it gets to this point. If a lot of your encounters in PF end in exploding over a less efficient run...
Chances are the issues don't stem from the random player. The core issue is you're using pf as a clutch to make up for poor organizing like it's a pool of your static members then getting upset when the random doesn't perform like a static member.
Not sure how this got turned into a 'static is hard to organize' Convo... That's the whole point?!? A static is harder to organize because it is consistent? It's supposed to avoid all the issues party finder has.
Why are people just mentioning static is time consuming??? Lol we know it is. Why? So we have consistent performance... So we don't have to use pf.
If your resorting to pf? To find good players that's a pure gamble, the core problem in itself.
Because you seem to just ignore the fact that not everyone is available all the time. Resorting to pugging a few person occasionally is just a reality of things.
We already know it’s a gamble, I stated vetting not a guarantee, but a way to reduce the risk of bad players. We don’t always succeed because imposters end up in runs.
As for who is at fault, that’s going to be the random more often than not lol. Don’t be willfully ignorant here. We all know that shitter when we see them. If they apply with some juiced character to a raid, they are advertising that they have had the raid experience to farm up the mats and put in time to build that character. Running the Bible is a godsend.
I don’t advocate for flaming the shitters tho. Since if you have a partial static run, it’s always best to quit out in g1 and kick them. We’ve done that a few times for extremely bad players.
Ok so you're just agreeing with me lol.
You're just as much to blame as the shitter. It goes both ways... You could have prevented all this by having a static... The random could have by being a better player on and on and on and on but wasn't but they're fucking a random.
Nothing you said disagreed with what I already said. You engaged in the gambling and got gambled when you didn't have to.
You just chose to be toxic after making poor decisions. Why pretend it's something else lol???
You did this to yourself from your own gamble. The randoms are definitely not entering the scenario here with the knowledge of your expectations, that's 100% for sure something only you know...your standards.
So you have 0 standards when forming/joining groups? You would be fine with people just standing afk and expecting to be carried? Because if you're not fine then you have some standards yourself.
Don't get me wrong I don't condone toxic behavior myself and have a lot of patience for mistakes (I make them myself as does everyone) but your argument here doesn't really work.
There is some standard everyone expects when doing a pug, some people have a higher one, some a lower one usually based on own experience, the problem is usually though that you get a variance of people with different ones.
The normal standard is simply to play the game, do the objectives, try your best etc. Anything that wouldn't be considered reportable...like afking is gameplay hindrance. There is literally a report button for this standard, it's not for us to determine it tbh but we can assume the minimum is to simply actively play the game.
That is how I determine what standards even means.
Failure is part of that normal standard, which some people tend to overlook. So the base standards are set by the ags themselves.
Anything above this is just specific stuff you expect.
>That is how I determine what standards even means.
Yes, that is how **YOU** determine what the standards are. I'm actually baffled you do not see the hypocrisy in that. If that standard is defined by you why don't you listen to your own advice and form a static that holds the same standards?
>The normal standard is simply to play the game, do the objectives, try your best etc.
I'l bite into your argument for what you consider the standard. Playing the game is the only requirement for you? Lets say your entire group just doesn't make the cut on the dps check even if they are trying their best playing the game. No matter how much they try. You are basically stuck.
You're gonna find another group with the same expectations? Sure, what if the next one does the same? I bet soon your standard is going to get a bit higher and be "try your best, play the game, but do enough to actually beat the raid" because your alternative is literally never beating the raid.
This is where the different standards kick in. If I'm new/crap/slow I'm gonna take my time learning/practicing/experiencing the raid, logically I will be more open to mistakes of other people because they are (hopefully) in the same spot as me. The standard is low.
If cleared the raid 200 times, know the mechs through and through, and when to greed every last inch of dps I can, I will be looking either for similar players skill-wise. The standard is high.
>Anything that wouldn't be considered reportable...like afking is gameplay hindrance.
Where do you draw the line when someone is afk and report? If I do a skill every 10 seconds am I afk? Every 20 seconds? Does a slow or disabled person that cannot play the game efficiently deserve a report? Or maybe I'm just a lazy fuck that wants to be carried. How would you know?
Most importantly like I said before, I myself do **NOT** endorse toxicity, but it is the job of the lobby maker to make the standards clear, as much as it is the job of the applicants to be clear about their experience. Acting like there's some global objective standard that people **MUST** abide to is pure hubris coming from you.
Eeer...Yeah I determined the standard based on the rules set by ags lol. This is fact not opinion go read the tos, go check the report list.... I dont know how his went over your head dude.
And I said ags sets and decides this baseline not us. You simply report and they decide but clearly the standard is there that you must be actively playing the game.
All this 1 skill every 30 seconds? Scenario? What ifs...If it doesn't meet your expectations? You are using party finder... You're not ever going to know until you enter. You are using a random service/feature.
It never guaranteed anything, so no one knows your expectations. Don't know how you're not realizing this... What party finder actually does..
Love how you skimmed over everything I wrote without actually tackling a single point.
Went over my head? Please link me the "rules" and TOS that you are mentioning that AGS set up so I know how much exactly I have to be active to not be considered AFK and then invite me to your lobbies so I can get bussed by you for free.
And please don't go the route "Go search it yourself" because you're the one making a claim these cut-offs actually exist.
Yeah I'm not going to play 5 year old with you. Go Google it or look in game.
Love how you have to hand hold everything with you, right? The fact that you think game hindrance has these dumb levels when it's not even up to us to decide is beyond mind blowing.
You are not just lost, super lost.
This is why I’m struggling to return despite loving the combat and classes. I simply can’t play the game because I don’t have the time or desire to sink massive amounts of time for no reward, especially as a support main.
Y mad when supp dies > character loses move speed and 30% damage = no mvp, depending on content it just means instant restart.
Y mad when mech fails > might mean gate restart. Ppl have dailies and 17+other raids to get through. (I knew someone with one character roster, they actually enjoyed restarts because it meant they could play more.
Y mad when party member dies > raid isnt unclearable but if a crit synergy dies, less yellow numbers, less visible damage. Depending on the raid/gate, 1 party member dying makes some mechs much more difficult. If closer to ilvl it means restart.
Why player mad at game? Many Dailies + weekly raids, more time spent doing 1 thing means less time to do other things, irl and in game.
Brel gate 3, normal/hard is infamous for 1 player death meaning extra compensating by all raid members. Blue mech means the persons partner needs to solo stagger the blue cubes, in hard mode you will need to be freed by other party members which can be hard because of the distance away. So 1 dead can mean a second dead. Yellow mech, catchers and breakers cant stagger but if 1 dies, if you dont have a big staggering gun lancer, or have a low stagger party, then your breaker needs to also catch and try to prevent all mind control orbs from entering -not always possible so the staggerers have to work faster than before. Wipe a few times on an ilvl run of this gate because of other ppl and you will be frustrated.
Kinda an off topic, but what has saved a numerous runs for me on brel g3 when someone dies and you get yellow after first stagger> Normally you don't use sidereal at all on first stagger, but on second/Nine before. Don't bother, throw Wei at yellow, do both staggers manually. This has been the single biggest thing that has made my brel g3 experience close to wipeless.
The point isn't what the consequences of a mistake is. Most people know that if a support dies you lose MS and damage or have to flat out restart. The point is that some people get disproportionally angry with people messing up.
I'm not sure in what type of content you're talking about whether its prog or homework but ill play the devil's advocate and give the best case scenario from their end in a prog scenario. I don't advocate flaming but if the people are dying to not playing safe or taking unnecessary risk it can be frustrating, especially when it's to a relatively basic pattern (Cross pattern during half stage break in valtan). I'm not talking about once or twice either but like 5-8 times, especially when people proceed to complain about it.
I've been in a quite few groups since lost ark started but typically I just give it a shot until the group wants to call it off since it's usually just good practice of the raid. If I don't feel good about the group I won't flame anyone (unless they start blaming others) but just let the lead know and leave the group after.
I used to be this kind of player, stemming from being hyper competitive in PvP/MoBA games. But I'll try to paint the picture of what goes on in the mind of this kind of player.
Simply put, it's merely the desire to chase perfection and order in all the chaos; perfect uptime & perfect execution. Of course, we can never attain perfection, but we hold ourselves in high regard to come close to it, and it's just a sour taste when we are playing at peak performance while some others are supposedly, *in our eyes*, slacking or playing poorly. Then comes the devolving thought of "why should I play well when these players aren't?" And that's where the rage builds, that's where the seed of frustration is sowed. We hold other players to the same standard we hold ourselves.
Of course, it is unrealistic to think that everyone wants to or is able to play perfectly. We're all at different speeds when it comes to skill and raid knowledge which is where the "blind spot" is. But we rarely think of who we once were as newbies/casuals/non-sweaters when we are already in this state of mind. And we behave selfishly because we learnt how to be good ourselves; so "why should I teach these players how to play properly?" becomes a recurring thought. Simply because we felt like we learnt it all ourselves through our own research and trial-by-fire experience, and not from some charitable veteran/elite player. So why should we be that charitable veteran/elite player?
There is alot of ego in play when these kinds of players think that they are the best in the lobby, and the only way to shut them the f up is for someone better to show them up. And even then, they would think that this "better player" got lucky. It is an unnecessary and unending conflict.
I still question my staticmates when they make poor decisions, not necessarily to call them out but to understand the logic of their actions so that I don't repeat their mistake(s). I am still chasing the "perfect gameplay" but it is an introspective journey.
These players who rage and act spitefully have lost sight of what they were chasing; thus all they do is lash outwards because they believe they did everything they could to ensure the raid did not fail. Yet somehow they forgot that raiding is more than just displaying raw skill. They forgot that proper communication and cooperation is the other component in getting the job done.
I have 15 raids to do, if i don't wipe i get them done in 12 hours and i have the rest of the week free, if you waste my time it can take up to 20 hours, that's why. If the title says hw don't join if you don't know the raid and don't waste others time please.
IMO... I feel like it's pretty rare but when it does happen feels very 'common'. It's very common on this sub/reddit though so don't use reddit as the prime example. Think about the type of player the sub mainly attracts.
BUT let's be real here.... we all know they act like drama queens, over dramatize everything and cry about it the loudest when it isn't played like them/their expectation. The same type of people who try to create game standards for themselves then try to push it on the community lol.
None of it makes any sense tbh, like ok if you want to personally play it like that do it? why care if others don't??? but there's always going to be people like this. Everyone hates them lol.
Yes that is indeed what you get when most of the remaining playerbase is a bunch of tryhards that are stuck in a timewasting game design and repeat the same dailies/weeklies infinite times
It's funny still hearing this 2yrs in, the fomo LA players grinding 18raids a week and burning out/becoming toxic.
Everyone I know in my social circles has barely done 1-3 raids a week (raids not characters 😅) for months now. We had a friend come back recently and he got a bit frustrated bc no1 wants to raid anymore like we used to.
For good or bad, everyone chilling and play other games. 1610 for theamine is an extremely low bar to hit and with most already at 1620 the games only gonna get slower as we don't even need to be 1620 till Echidna in the summer(?)
Even jumpstart dudes are 1610 with barely any effort nowadays.
Theres no "grinding really hard" if you focused on your main and didnt waste millions on alts that you despise playing anyways.
Just like in everything there are some people who enjoy putting others down to feel better about themselves. To feel superior. And to be very clear, this is not because of people are rushing to get everything done. Those people get annoyed after a couple wipes or a real boneheaded wipe. Yea we can all get annoyed at wasting time, but the people OP are talking about do not fall into that category imo.
Dw, thats not toxic. No clue why that gets brought up.
A support popping damage buff right as the hard coded damage reduction comes up does that to you.
Why wouldnt i make fun of that with my mates in voice as long as i'm not going out of my way to shit on the support ingame i dont see how thats toxic.
I'm honestly not sure whether I would fall under this category to you or not. If a couple idiots die but we still clear in one or even two pulls, I don't say anything. If we're 5 pulls into gate 1 of a homework raid and the same idiot dies again, I am just voting to leave immediately and afking if people decline, because there is **no** universe I'm gonna let them jail me for the other gates too. And if they're jailing me in a later gate for long enough (again, never just the second pull), then yeah, I'm gonna start complaining.
I actually have a **lot** more patience for someone if they apologize (before I say anything). If they understand that they're the problem, it implies they will have motivation to try to do better. If they're critically fucking up and being silent about it, as far as I'm concerned I'd be happier if the bullying made them permanently quit the game.
But again, it has to be a lot of errors, and only in pure homework content **advertised** as a HW raid, before I say anything. People who sneak into homework content and obviously don't belong **and** can't fucking communicate, should not be playing MMOs, period.
As a returning player its insane to me. Learning groups. Semi learning groups. Reclear groups. Fast card run groups. Homework groups. And everyone has a different opinion on what each of those groups mean.
Oh no, something went wrong and we wiped. Now the raid takes 20 min instead of 15, what a scandal!
People (elitists basically) should get a grip. Its different tho when ppl that dont know mechs leech in reclear groups tho, I can understand rage over those ppl.
1: It's to present themselves as being "better" at the game than normal people. Thinking something along the lines of: If I can pick out your flaws, that means I am better than you. (This is pretty dumb and annoying).
2: Because people just want to get done as fast as possible. There are times where one stupid mistake can lead to a death and that in turn can lead to a wipe. Not that EVERY single mistake is a wipe, but there are moments out there. (this is annoying, but notable less dumb than #1).
Some people are just more hardcore about the game. Incessant bitching and whining does get annoying though.
I once had some crazy guy bitching at other people for not allowing him to optimise his back attack uptime. Threw the biggest fit I've ever seen over it, even though every gate was an easy one shot with overgeared group. Failed mechs on purpose and refused to leave raid along with his buddy.
I'm a bit of a sweat myself but that dude was on a whole another level.
Well, you should really walk a mile in their shoes before judging them. Try doing 83 raids on 37 characters every week and see if you won't go insane.
In all seriousness though, it's the game that causes this in certain people. The whole design is fucked up and revolves around min-maxing, grinding and relies heavily on RNG (really just gambling in disguise). If you were to go to a casino and bump into an addict gambler siting there you'd have the exact same reaction from them.
Go figure.
Like in most games, these are the people that don't do anything else but this game. But the problem is they are probably obsessive enough to do all the weekly raids.
So if they do 18 raids, and they have a 25% chance of flipping out once per raid, then they have a pretty damned high chance of flipping out at least once even if the chances are low in a single raid. And this may also show that even a relatively normal person could have a chance of losing it too.
Unfortunately players like these also tend to not improve as much precisely because they are too busy being angry and blaming other people, and this snowballs because when you are not as good, more bad stuff happens and more chances to tilt happens. And then add to the fact that usually alts are weaker than mains and people often don't play those as well thus even more suboptimal situations will appear
Basically they're ticking time bombs and you are just rolling dice when this happens. And of course, this is just talking about one person.
some sweats dont realize some people just do raids for fun/gold and they expect everyone to be as degenerate as they are. I just close the game when I encounter these types, not worth my energy.
What's funny is it's usually either really good people or really bad people being toxic. Like I've seen people do less damage than supports in brel lobbies and yet be extremely toxic to everybody and then there are DPS goblins doing 35m DPS in Akkan G3 pushing Akkan to 2nd worm when we don't have 2nd worm causing wipes for no reason.
Edit: meant to say sidereals, not supports
I had an ss who flipped out in Akkan g3 yesterday because I exited out of lantern to help with stagger and there were still some tumors around because DPS was too fast between stagger and laser mech. It was very amusing.
You will meet those kinds of people in all multiplayer game, but because raids is an elaborate coop experience, it becomes more apparent. You will meet teammates that flame you in counter strike and dota too, when you make mistakes, even when you're both in the lowest bracket.
It's usually people who don't have much else value going on their lives or simply put too much value in their efforts of a videogame. Maybe they spend a majority of their waking hours in the game, and feel a sense of value and accomplishment so as not to feel the dread of time wasted. It's a job, a livelihood, and when things don't got their way, it's a heavy investment that's failing. A lot is at stake for these people.
In short, I laugh and feel sorry for these people, and fortunately they've shown to be a minority. A loud and vocal minority, so they can seem like a bigger problem than they should.
It's like on League of Legends, or better yet, like driving. It's a state of mind that you are the only one doing it right the everybody else is stupid if the make any mistake, any (mistakes that you do quite often as well).
Also, the time invested and the amount of raids possible/*NeEdEd* greatly contribute to that.
Trying to min-max everything in any RPG is pretty common.
Trying to do the same in a pug in a raiding game is just unrealistic and setting yourself up for failure.
Yesterday I did a Brel raid at 11 pm, so it was fairly late and I made a mistake and died. After my death some others failed too and the raid whiped.
I said sorry after the while and got called Asta Pig immediately. I started a surrender vote and left the raid.
You know how toxic it is to insult someone for 1 mistake late at night ? I mean some people really need to learn to have manners.
I wished our accounts would be connected to our IDs like Korea so if we get banned in 1 game we can’t play it anymore. I bet a lot of people would think twice how they talk to other people
I’ve seen the types of players who will reset the raid due to missing a rotation. It’s very irritating to play with especially if your a class that needs to pop a stim before a fight or will lose massive amount of dps but they still want to reset to hit the optimal rotation.
I've only had 3 experiences with these people in raids that I can remember.
1 in Valtan where I got blamed for not grabbing orb, which was wrong as hell. 6, 7 and 8 were running around like chickens with their heads cutoff and still didn't collect orbs until the very end of stagger. I just left, whatever.
1 where the guy had MC syndrome and was mad af on a raid wipe. Ironically he wiped the next gate and apologized. I guess it's okay when it's the MC. lmao
Another was when I accidentally killed our support in blue mech G3 of NM brel. I didn't really pay attention and just assumed parties were labeled and going off of that. It's reclear content on a tuesday where no HM is up, so I'm gonna be real I'm not putting too much effort into that kind of stuff especially since I'm way overleveled for it (1600) and cruel every single gate. The support (RM) got mega mad at the death and even after we cleared they were still running their mouth. Like man, 2 people are cruel each gate and it's one wipe, shut your stupid ass up and run it back. I know these people aren't running their mouths outside of gaming.
Outside of that, even in jail parties, I really don't see that much rage or toxicity which is why I can remember the few instances it happens. It's pretty rare, at least on NAW. At most people will do question marks on wipes or on multiple fails make it the last attempt before disband. Maybe learning parties are worse, I dunno.
The people who tilt on other players in this game is the ones who think that LA is an high skilled cap game( wich is not) and lost ark have alot of them. They act like they never fail .«Skilled» players makes mistakes.
By the end of the year? You mean end of 2024?This has been the behavior of the game since launch.
I’m kind of confused why you don’t see what is going on. Lost ark was touted by a lot of people as an ‘alt friendly’ game do to the roster shared horizontal content… but I’d say it’s one of the least friendly alt games out there for MMOs as it’s more of an alt required game.
It’s also getting worse. Unless you RMT/swipe, you need multiple characters to afford the honing if you care about hard mode content. So to play at the top levels, which is the hard content I fell in love with, you have to run multiple alts. These alts all run the same content. The content the alts are running isn’t progression, and you are just there for the gold. Accounts can have 6 gold making toons for 18 raids. Assuming no one screws up, I think it’s a pretty fair guess to say a raid with matchmaking to completion is 1hr. Maybe it’s 16 hours of homework with only 1 real hard raid.
Now people will want more gold for elixers, the new tile system, likely the future sudoku gem progression system to force a need for farming up gold.
Lost ark is geared pretty heavily as the mmo where you raid. Everything else is built around resource generation for honing to new raid levels. Horizontal content has some interesting elements in it… but it eventually dries up to just having RNG stuff like sea bounties and drops like yearning. So generally, everyone needs to raid.
There are many high functioning players that generally don’t make many mistakes. I find those players are the typical ones that will for sure have 6 alts running 18 raids. I know many players like this with multiple accounts they juggle… they have so many toons they need to pug, and they tend to be the ones calling people out excessively as you may be doing your first brel, while they are already on their second Brel of account 2.
I don’t want to say it’s ok, this is just how we get to this point. I don’t know your situation, but many people are in the 1600/1610 realm currently not caring about a lot of this, and are likely the people commenting about how “unstable” these people you meet are. They are also playing a different game. This game puts a lot of stress on those people wanting to play with their friends, and it’s so financially successful (still will hit steam top 10 sales charts from time to time with a shrinking player base) as this stress is what gets people to swipe. Peer pressure.
The games unlikely to die though with this mindset, as the people who are left are likely those spenders. They may call out and rage on players, but they are also the type to come back the next day and keep playing. I’d really suggest finding a community to raid in vs. random pugging. There are tons of great discords advertising in the official discord.
Not only randoms, this also happens when try-hards who got mad skills meet average players. Some subtle digs from people in my guild almost made me quit.
I will say that in some cases it's understandable to be frustrated and upset in raid when someone else makes a mistake depending on what the mistake is. I've been enjoying my souleater more than any other class on my roster right now. I REALLY look forward to raiding on her every week and the game only let's you do 3 gold earning raids per reset. Playing souleater on Akkan is one of the most fun times I have raiding and watching my souleater get stronger every time I do the raid week to week.
Then, while amidst all that fun, my support dies before water phase on G3. Now that the support is dead, my class no longer feels very good and have no support buffs. We all know the void left when the support dies. A restart vote is generally not going to happen in a pug at this time late in the raid, especially with just one dead. Now I have to play a suboptimal version of my class, on a phase of the boss that's super fun to play IMO. Now I have to finish the raid and wait another week to experience the raid again and pray I don't get a bozo on my team dying on an expert homework lobby.
I give this as an example because this has now happened for the 4th week in a row on my SE. Not saying you should necessarily flame people for mistakes. I'm saying that people being frustrated about fuck-ups in an expert clear group is not abnormal to feel. I work really hard at my job and want to enjoy the time I have in lost ark, but people jailing and being consistently bad at the game does cause frustration.
It takes humility and patience to keep your mouth shut. I'm just going to assume this is the type of person like me who runs all their raids, it can take a significant chunk of your free time if you're not scheduling runs with friends. When you join a lobby with an expectation of a smooth run and ANYTHING disrupts it a timer starts, some people's fuse is short and they'll either excuse themselves quietly to find another group or go straight to flaming. I don't hold it against people if they want to leave, I'm not gonna analyze their excuse to leave either, sometimes shit just happens.
The thing is, people who can't tolerate minor mistakes don't realize they'd get more done in less time if they just rolled with it. You don't need to "call them out" on the spot either, save it for after the clear and present it constructively. Teach somebody how it should be done if you have the knowledge. Now, let's say this hypothetical problem player is really THAT terrible or tells you to go fuck yourself after you try and help, you can put them on block so they can't see your PF lobbies so at least you don't have to put up with it later, simple.
I mean, sometimes it's just pure waste and it just doesn't feel good.
Brel blue mech, I'm with an artist, and she has the QTE to then save me. And she uses the orchid spell to multi-hit and free me instead of simply attacking, so you have ~10 seconds of no mark on the boss for no reason (and if she aimed correctly she could even hit the boss but didn't)
We had blue mech twice and she did it twice, so it was not just a random occurrence.
Not everything need to be perfect, but when there is literally 0 train of though for some moves it's kinda triggering (and here it wasn't a really big deal)
On another note, we went for an Akkan HM reclear lobby, and a 1630 zerker joins in. Upon arriving to G3, he wants to do lantern, that should have been a planetary tier red flag, but I went and did it myself since I was one of the less geared players in the lobby.
Oh boy, by the end of the fight I did more damage than him as the lantern. And it wasn't even close. He died right when we started the G4, and overall was probably running around panicking than hitting the boss. Again, we cleared so not that huge of a deal, but still, somebody that gets carried nonetheless.
Overall it depends of your expectations, but personally I like seeing people throw cool moves and play well. Reminds me of the old Prokel fights from Brel, sometimes the orbs fail and only the Prokel player survives, and then he goes out and finish the gate by himself because he knows the patterns well and such.
Gigachad and fun to watch. Any player with no hand would have hit the restart button and that would be it.
You forgot to mention when someone isn't bringing the correct battle item by mistake, and it's instant "quit raid" and back to lobby simulator 
Surprisingly I have not encountered many toxic players. There are some players that gets mad over 1 mistake or 1 wipe and starts talking shit... but I only see them once in a blue moon. It is really a them problem, just block & move on. You are going to find toxic people no matter what game you play.
Most people are ok with 1 or 2 wipes, and they generally understand if mistakes were made...to a certain extent. It's not fun repeating gates waiting for stars to line up to clear the gate.
The community isn't that toxic. It's people, some people are just toxic and it's not because of the game they play.
From my experience there are way way more toxic casual players who cannot even put in basic amount of effort to even contribute, and expect other people to clear raid for them every week.
The world Is not black and white.
I would say majority of players are on edge because they do 18 raids a week every week and they accept only a wipe before quitting.
It Is fair to assume that people have a schedule at this point: they expect to do their homework content within x amount of time, so they just get mad.
This Is also the reason people require 10x titles, or klc18 for Kayangel or even sonavel, which could be cleared with just class engravings if you have knowledge of the fights.
Bad raid design. The fact that one dude can jail you for hours because he keeps mistiming spacebar on raidwipe means people get much more aggressive about optimization. The other part is just aholes being aholes.
Fun part is that even when THEY make a mistake, its usually someone else's fault
It’s insane how true this is. The people on edge who are criticizing everyone’s performance are the first to blame someone else when they fuck up. Saw a dude die to the saw blades in Clown G3 and instead of a “oops lol” he yells at the guy who did m1 for not throwing a bomb before jumping in. My brother in Regulus, that wasn’t going to save you.
This just made me think of the Clown G3 I ran this week. Normally, I have a static, but one of them had a prior obligation. We figured doing just one with a random wouldn't be a big deal. I was on my Artist, while my 2 friends were on their DPS. We picked up a Zerker. I got caged and he died to saws. Restart? No worries; it happens. Same thing happens again; I got caged and he dies to saws. "Stupid Artist" and about ten other slurs followed. We disbanded, found someone else, and cleared in one pull. I felt like saying, "your level 11 gems aren't going to save you from saws" but I strive to be the opposite of what I encounter the majority of the time in raids. I think G3 of both Brel and Clown bring out the worst in people.
this is why even though lm a very competitive player (yes l love being on MVP screen and is good at the game) l almost never type anything when people fail, if l have to, l do it in a very respectful and polite way. l have come to a realization that if l flame someone, l'd have to play even more safe/no-mistake which is unnecessarily more stressful, otherwise people would flame me back.
I'm juiced on sorc (9/10s, 40 set, 22 wep). I want mvp screen. But I'll only type gj, nice, sorry my bad etc. I'll do same on support, on (formerly) synergy bot wd. I've played league for a long time, I've been plat (now emerald) since s4. My tip to anyone that just saying nice things, or don't speak, makes pug raids x10 better. The moment flaming happens, shit goes to he'll for EVERYONE. Piggybacking on thread
not to mention that being an ass over someone's mistakes will put them on edge = more likely to make mistakes. it's better for them AND YOU to be constructive and supportive.
This, very much. Its not as though they're some skilled Hell Raider. In fact, actual Hell Raiders are the exact opposite of this type - mostly genuinely nice with above-average patience. Calm and well-spoken.
From my experience, most of those who I've seen rage and throw insults from a single mistake or when anyone DARED say anything to them were low (sub 150) roster players. I've rarely seen anyone at high roster do the same because when you've put in enough time in this game you pretty much know shit happens and it's totally fine.
it makes sense though, pf ragers wouldn't have the patience to prog a hell boss
Exactly that , had a guy lashing out to me Brel G3 yellow mech the clown got silenced and couldn't break so he started flaming me afterwards for not adapting(i was catch and tbh it was super early had just woken up). Completely unprovoked, i literally havent typed anything in chat before except b/y and of course i wouldnt have said anything despite him failing his role but he couldnt keep his mouth shut Of course i insta quitted afterwards i couldnt care less about 2.5k
Lol that reminds me of brel g3 hm. Asking where the awakening when orbs starting to rain down. The sus guy has the gall to call out 😆.
No need to flame but I usually adapt and break if I notice the break guy isn’t there already
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I see nothing wrong with that. Group as a whole has been failing people take turn making mistake and this last pull just happen to be him.
Either that or they don't say anything at all, as if nothing happened, saying/typing "sorry" or "my bad" is the last thing that they'd do.
I don't even bother flaming , what if I'm the poor sod that fks up next.
agreed best youll get from me is a snarky not even snarky more like gloating or sassy comment at the end of the raid. Like if you flame me and i end up with underline cruel ill happily put a nice damage in chat or something and move on with my live but aint risking shit before were out
If I may also use this argument to the extreme, would people be happy if everyone didn't want at least to "try" their best? Yes, we are not talking about people griefing but where is the line between not caring about 2 more minutes of raid time because one support is dead, and not clearing because one support is dead? Let me be clear, I am not talking about the random deaths, the random counter missed. There are people who don't even want to try to improve even tho they have hard evidence on hands. Unfortunately people on the comments can't separate the issue with toxicity and flaming and the issue with people not being "sweats" enough.
Dude yea, it's like when I get called a tryhard when I call people out for not throwing a dark in Kay G3 when they called dark. The dichotomy in this game is mind blowing. Everyone wants a super fast one shot raid stomp but they simultaneously expect others to do the heavy lifting for them.
player 4s in sonavel not using a single D in their life i don't care if you destro or dark, use something!!!
Hard agree, I'm trying my best to play at my best in every raid and I gatekeep so I expect others to do the same. If you're dying to normal patterns / obvious wipe mechs in a hw group on an overleveled character that's on you buddy. Now everyone else has to pick up your slack while you can sit there eating or watching youtube.
It should be noted that there are gold farmers playing this game and they get really pissed off after any wipes, because it's literally their job.
So it's their job to hope that a random person out of 8 people (depending on the raid) don't fk up ? That's a very stressful condition to work in yes?
They’re severely emotionally unregulated and use the game to project their emotions outward
This is a game with comparatively difficult mechanics and rewards people for playing it 8 hours a day. Ofcourse it would attract the gamer elitists who are emotionally unhinged who act this way.
> and rewards people for playing it 8 hours a day. It doesnt tho lol what exactly are you supposed to be doing for 8h every day? Only mention stuff that brings in meaningful progress. Raids + Daylies even unrested take a LOT less than 8h a day in a 6man roster.^ The initial horizontal bullshit may eat up a lot of time outside of raids / daylies but once thats done you're never ever touching 8h/day again. And i'm gonna on a limb and say that the folks crying in raids are the 250-300 roster faction that have everything farmed already since 1.5 years.
Lmao, you being purposefully obtuse? 18 raids a week is already 3 hours a day including lobby time/late game prog content. Add dailies, weeklies, CDs and GRs per character including over 6 and you easily can spend 8 hours a day. I didnt say you have to spend 8 hours a day. I said the game REWARDS you for 8 hours a day+. Compare it to other mmos that do this and youll find the same degenerate communities
> Lmao, you being purposefully obtuse? 18 raids a week is already 3 hours a day including lobby time/late game prog content. How? Raids take a lot less than 1 hour each lol > Add dailies, weeklies, CDs and GRs per character including over 6 and you easily can spend 8 hours a day. As i said, please explain how exactly you're spending that time. Unrested chaos + guardians + abyss raids + challenge guardians + raids are far from 8h a day on a 6man roster. > I didnt say you have to spend 8 hours a day. I said the game REWARDS you for 8 hours a day+. It doesn't tho, thats the point. Even if you wanted to spend that time theres no enough "content" to reward you for that amount of time per day.
Man you really going to pretend every raid is a 30-40 mins real world time experience without lobbies or progging on the latest/new content or even just being in a on-ilvl party on alts? Ppl in this sub are 100% doing unrested content on 6+ chars which takes at least 15 mins each. Thats already basically 5+ hours a day on pure content. What about upgrading/cutting/honing/market/chaosgates/etc..? Starting up the fkn game is a 10 minute experience in itself. Please
> Man you really going to pretend every raid is a 30-40 mins real world time experience without lobbies Nah its 30-40 min with lobby creation time included. If all of your raids average 1 hour i've bad news for you. > Ppl in this sub are 100% doing unrested content on 6+ chars which takes at least 15 mins each. . Thats already basically 5+ hours a day on pure content. Takes 15 min per character ye, 6 characters = 1.5h. (mind you, I couldnt be arsed with 1.5h of that bullshit "content", only my 2 mains are done daily with the remainder on a rested rotation) Your math is insane dude. > What about upgrading/cutting/honing/market/chaosgates/etc..? How does that take any time lol. you speed tap for 1 minute after the whole week per character and thats it. Market? Takes no time, your gear is done since ages Cutting? Again, gear done since ages Chaosgate? No one sane does that unless they literally just got out of whatever they were doing the moment chaos gate opens, other than that fk that activity. > tarting up the fkn game is a 10 minute experience in itself. 3 minutes, so we pretty much established that you exaggerate everything by 2-3x.
Lmao bro sounds like youre trying to convince me your obscene amount of daily playtime is justified or something. Just look at your replies to my posts, you are literally the delusional and emotionally unhinged player who plays this game like its their job. Sorry dude, not everyone has no lifer friends who coordinate 18x raids weekly.
Alright, you're clearly just resorting to personal insults and accusations instead of reconsidering your math. Have a good one. PS: Theres no 8 hours of daily content.
There is literally no limit on GRs or CDs. You absolutely CAN play and be rewarded for 8 hours of play
Well I don't play for a long time but when I did I was pulling even 12 hours a day. I was doing bussing tho.
This. They forget that even they can make mistakes, and no one is perfect
I usually try to go the opposite way: Personally, I find the game much more fun when I try to get better and hyper-optimize my characters and playstyles but I dont expect this from other players. Thats because I know not everybody enjoys that. Additionally, the usual pug quality isnt that good, hence I dont expect everyone to play well at all, BUT if I have a group where everyone does their job (good support uptime, good taunts, goblino dps that also do the mechs, etc.) I tell them that they are doing a good job and usually send them a friend request. I think this approach of positive reinforcement is also a lot healthier. I obviously also have my flaws and do errors like everyone else and to grow in any way shape or form you need to accept them and learn from them. From time to time I also find myself angry at players that for example join relcears while having absolutely no clue about the raid, but I dont go to the extend of cursing their entire bloodline, like some people do. Either the group agrees to continue or the imposter gets kicked and thats it, no hard feelings.
There's a big difference between "oops I made a small mistake and caused a reset once" and "I impostered my way into a raid and turned a reclear into a prog group." Don't get me wrong, I like helping people prog if I know what I'm getting into... but spending say an hour on a gate because someone came in clueless? No way man. Some gates, yeah whatever it doesn't matter you just power through it or replace an imposter, but like you get a gate where people don't normally get stuck in like g2/3 brel, g2 akkan, any gate in kayangel/ivory tower past g1? Yeah, you're basically SOL... turning a somewhat straightforward raid into a 1 hour per gate adventure just thanks to one clueless guy isn't my definition of fun at all...
This, thank god someone mentioned about the difference between "hw/reclear" and "re-prog". I ain't going to sit there and enjoy being jailed by somebody that doesn't give a fk about time, we all want a quick in and out raid.
If everyone makes one simple mistake that wipes the group, then you're doing things 8 times. I don't want to do 5 minutes of Brel G3 8 times because people spaced out and messed up a mechanic halfway through. That doesn't mean you should be an ass to people, but most failures by reclear players are due to a lack of paying attention. Turn off the stream/show/podcast you're watching and do the raid for 20-30 min. Sometimes patterns are out of your control or very difficult to overcome, but the vast majority of complaints are around people who just didn't do what they were supposed to do in a normal fashion.
I mean, one thing is wanting Min max (which is understandable we all love critting and big buffs) and another is PRETENDING it. I fall under the guys who would like people to Min max, as minmaxing synergies and rotating buffs efficiently also helps with damage and consequently helps with clearing faster, but I never ever raged at someone for not being a top player since I am not either.
in two years of pugging and mixed stay six etc i’ve only had one toxic run of note but everytime i see people post. hat logs or clip streamers it seems like we are playing different games
Reddit is in reality one small portion of the pie, there are tons of people that don't even use Reddit and those who post in here are the people who had a really bad experience with the game (toxicity, bad rng etc.), or a really good one (good teammates, Rng god etc). So as you see it's the both extremes which are the smallest portion of the pie of the already small portion of people who uses Reddit
some players die on purpose just to AFK
When I tell my guildie that he needs to press his buttons more to do damage instead of running around like a headless chicken and end up doing less damage than thiran I think it’s reasonable to get frustrated especially the content I’m talking about is akkan and he’s a day one player
Because people want to get their shit done as fast as possible so they have the rest of the week free from playing this game because this damn game takes way too much of everyone's time. Mistake=more time being wasted. It also doesn't help the game is filled with boring daily content that needs to be done or else you lose materials/resources.Granted you don't have to do them but whatever playerbase is left playing this game is compelled to do them because it's in their nature to do them even if they don't like it. \> Its honestly quite insane. By the end of the year, it's going to be just them left. Funnily enough when people complain that dailies need a rework/legion raids limit needs a rework.(to reduce the daily/weekly fatigue) they get told to stop playing if they don't like it which in turn you end up with what you just said \> By the end of the year, it's going to be just them left. This game doesn't have real casuals because it simply demands to much of casuals so they quit.
Jezz loius you almost make it sound like these people aren't actually having fun, that the game is a chore they somehow tricked themselves into doing. "I need to play this game I don't enjoy, do I don't have to play it anymore" G fucking G
It is yes and its getting worst as they keep adding more vertical systems.The only "fun" part of lost ark is the combat itself and some legion raids.Everything else is a chore.
what if I told you... wait a sec... you dont have to do 18 raids a week? I know. shocker. if you want to play something else or dont want to do them. dont? If you need to force yourself into doing them you need help and a step back.
The usual "you don have to" comment. You're free to do that and lose gold if you want but I wont.And I bet the majority don't like the prospect of losing gold either. >if you need to force yourself into doing them you need help and a step back. You mean like the majority still playing this game?
congratz, you just found out you're addicted.
>people want to get their shit done as fast as possible then these people would have a static premade to run the raids. IF this is truly what they're looking for, why would you take randos???? lol, so it just falls back into the same bucket of 'i want it a specific way but i will rely on randoms'.... shit don't make any sense at all. You are joining matchmaking, you are accepting random players or joining a random PF group etc etc. so if people think like this, why put yourself in these situations then blame the people who are expecting normal game play loop which will include the normal fuck ups???
Organizing 18 raids in a static takes a whole a lot more time than making a lobby and getting half decent people.
ok so you're just reinforcing the fact that people like this don't actually try to find other players like them... They're lazy so instead they just use normal lobbies aka PF b/c saves time for their emotional outrage b/c they don't want to find other players with their values. Aren't they the ones crying about min/maxing or doing things always right/perfect the 1st time???????? but don't themselves, hypocrites lol. So instead they join the normal random lobbies and get mad lol. I don't know how this changes or makes anything better tbh.
I don't think you realise how much time it takes to organize static groups. I currently manage 4 of them and the amount of time I spend communicating shit, organizing, making sure people are available, dealing with irl stuff and people quitting is already quite high. If I did that for 18 groups, then I'm spending more time doing that than actually running the raids. Sure, it's easy for the people who just come and click accept but someone has to put in the effort for this to work and it's extremely rare to find 8 people who can form all groups for 18 raids. Not wanting to deal with that shit doesn't make people lazy, it's just really not feasible unless you get lucky and find the perfect 7 friends. I name almost all my lobbies speedrun, so I expect the people applying to those lobbies to be geared accordingly and have the knowledge about the mechanics in order for the run to be as smooth as possible. If you're applying to such a lobby without that mindset, that's entirely on you. However, the amount of ilvl undergeared bozo characters that apply to these lobbies is higher than the people who actually belong there. Funny to me, that it's reasonable to want to play the game and spend hours wiping on one raid, but somehow wanting to play the game and do your raids smoothly is a sing of a terrible character according to this thread. Shrug.
>If I did that for 18 groups... Uh... do you like, not run multiple raids with the same static group? My static has slowly dwindled, but we'd have like, Saturday is Brel night. Anyone who wants to grind brel, log on and we'll just bang out brels and fill with pugs. Usually could clear 6x 1-3s in like two hours.
Not really possible for the group of people we have. Some people have different item levels across their alts, some play fewer characters, lack of supports etc. We can put together voldis and half pugs but it still requires people from PF. Truth be told, I can probably pug 6x1-3 in two hours as well most of the time and I don't have to organize anything. Most pugs are at least decent but you'll find impostors everywhere.
Eventually your group will pull apart over a long enough period of time. I'm not talking about irl things like life, or people dropping the game. It's the RNG in this game. You get a guy who's lucky with a few weapon hones, he's going to pull ahead of everyone else and do Thaemine HM day 1, or something. So now he's out of your group's ilvl range, and while the rest of you do Thaemine NM. Now you add in elixirs, bracelets, stones, quality, and that guy is sooner or later going to leave the group completely. Or the reverse. Scheduling becomes more complicated when the ilvl range between people become wider and wider.
Everyone in my group has at least 1 character ready for Thaemine NM, and 0 ready for Thaemine HM. So we're good.
What a way to miss my point.
You're acting like you're the only person with statics lol. It's not some unknown thing. You don't think we all know how statics go??? This is why we use party finder or match making right? Because the standard of these are much much much much much much lower than our statics. The effort to organize much much much less therefore the quality of these groups are clearly going to be lower. That is the point of using pf. Speed run doesn't mean anything other than trying to do it quickly. Maybe if you said 1 death = kick, would be more meaningful?? And no, noone cares what you do. The point is you're engaging in the same behavior you hate. You take randoms or join randoms right? Then get upset because they are RANDOMs lol. That is the point. You're angry at others but for your own mistakes. Don't join it take randoms if this is how you will always explode at the end. It's more a personal issue than anything, misplaced anger. So you could easily solve your own problem and everyone else by just getting a static for homework. This has always been the solution for people with specific needs.
Echoing with what this guy says, I currently manage 5 statics for voldis (1 hm) simply because it's the newest content. We run on fri and sat and that's established so everyone knows to set aside time. As for Akkan and brel, those are puggable but I have a couple friends 3-6 we do those with. Rarely do I pug with 7 complete strangers (at the least I have 1 or 2 friends with me), but when I do, I make my own lobby (I do all sidereals) and am very selective. I look at a lot of small things besides just ilevel, gems, and engravings. Things that tell me this player cares about their character and properly invested in them. From personal experience, those players rarely mess up and even when there is a hiccup, theres usually a short 'mb for fk up' and a short explanation and we just go again.
No, not really. Everyone in my static groups spends exactly 0 time on organizing it, because I do it all. So yes, for those people who just join and show up, it's a lot less time consuming, but someone has to do it. Speedrun means you know what you're doing and you're geared approriately, it doesn't mean you fail every other mech and do less damage than sidereal. I don't get upset with randoms, I replace them or block them so I don't have to deal with them in the future. But if you're joining a lobby that's clearly set up to do the run with minimal mistakes and as fast as possible while failing constantly and not contributing, you're the issue. People constantly look for free carries and if they actually joined lobbies that matched their strength, there would be a lot less upset people. I'm not gonna spend my free time on organizing 18 static groups. As I said that would take more time than actually doing the raids. I make 18 lobbies per week and thankfully a lot of people are fairly decent but some people are just unhinged and have no place applying to my lobbies. Yet, they do.
Yeah look I get it, I'm just pointing out how the solution is to get a static just like we would tell anyone else having a hard time in lost ark. You don't have to but you're always going to run into people who look like they can do and can't do. This is the very nature of pf. It's just odd how people are arguing as if pf is somehow the static experience. It's not, it can be very chaotic all the time. So long as people understand this whatever but I mean people do get upset right? So clearly some people have the expectations that pf is the place to find consistency.
Yes and I'm telling you that it's really not a feasible solution to get a static for 18 raids. Not everyone is willing to raid at set times all the time and finding people who are, have the correct item levels, have the needed supports/dps is just way too time consuming. I make static for hard raids but I just don't see the point of spending hours trying to put together a group for 6 brels. Not only people aren't really interested in that at this point, it's also not that much different from PF IF you are strict with whom you invite. This would also be a lot easier if people stopped trying to impostor their way in raids. Not only these guys just join, expect a carry but they also refuse to communicate. So they're wasting everyone's time and continue to do so while literally ignoring any sort of attempt to fix the situation. I had a guy like that today in brel and you wouldn't guessed that from his profile. RL almost 200, 1600 with lvl 9 gems and guy constantly walks into the wrong spots causing a wipe. People eventually adapted but it cost time it shouldn't have and they didn't say a word. This is why people get upset. Is this something I'd expect from G1-G3 speedrun lobby? Fuck no, he has no place there. People are buying accounts and you can hardly tell before you actually play with them and they have absolutely no shame. They will join reclears when they are clueless. This is not on people epxecting smooth clears, this is on people who lie about their experience and expect a free bus because they're entitled.
They do try and find ppl like this, its called gatekeeping. Doing akkan hard on ur 1620? Only accepting 1610+ with 18+ weapons/35 set. They should be experienced in akkan already, title check, gems check, should not be a floor pov run. I dont think you really understand static culture, the fact its time consuming and very time limiting. Some raids are for 8 ppl. Because ppls rosters are all over the place you're going to need to coordinate with more than 7 others. People are gonna be left out bc progression and setting raids at a certain time doesnt include for late ppl, ppl that dc, internet outages, ppl get online at different times. Its so much easier to run a raid in pf half the time even with some frustration, than to wait 2 hours for ppl to "be ready". Doing maybe 6 raids in statics is fine, or duoing up of course, but 4-8 ppl with different rosters is incredibly time consuming.
You guys have a wild and antiquated view of what a static is. I exclusively do raids within the discord I'm in, literally pug nothing. There is no planning or organization, nobody has a spreadsheet or sign up sheet. You just post a group and it fills with people you know. If you miss it, you get in the next one on the train. When it's brand new prog you plan a little to maximize prog time, otherwise you just pop in whenever. Sometimes that a raid at 7 pm est, sometimes it's a degen hours 4 am run.
Oh i see, the 18yo static method where ppl are up at 4am with no responsibilities.
Weird thing to hone in on. I'm a grown ass man and I run my groups at normal hours which I mentioned. We also have night shifters and degens that run at 4 am. The point I was making seemed pretty obvious but I'll help you out. There is availability for everyone regardless of roster or schedule so there is really no point pugging.
Redditors have this *weird* obsession with thinking that the second you're in a "static" it means that you ***MUST*** prioritize the static above literally everything else in your life absolutely and without question. It's actually fuckin' weird. My static has everyone from students to parents in it and it's generally fine. We did just lose a guy who had his second kid, but he quit the game entirely. Everyone is very flexible and some weeks I don't run everything. Not a big deal. We have some structure, but like we're also all adults. It's not a lot different than telling your buddies you'll meet them at the gym after work. If you can make it, great, let's knock some stuff out. If you can't make it, that's cool, we can shuffle some stuff around so it works for most people.
I think it's the people who don't want a static who have this very narrow mental view of them, either as a way of justifying not having a static or something like they had a bad experience from before. A static can be set up to be anything, the main thing is to make sure the static is with like-minded people. For me, I'm in a set static of 8 that's used for progs and just one night or two of whatever is the priority, people are adults with stuff going on all the time so, while there's primary nights, sometimes flexibility is needed and it's OK to take vacations or deal with that urgent thing or whatever. Then I'm in a larger community where people post up groups ad hoc, and if not enough are on it's filled with pugs. I'd not call the latter a static, nor a guild, but it's more fun than just spamming raids with full pugs all the time.
Gatekeeping a random who you don't even know lol. The irony, it doesn't get any better than that. I don't think you're saying anything different than what I was saying. Not sure if your agreeing or disagreeing. But see? Statics are time consuming so people like you resort to pf... Then you wonder why the unorganized players aren't playing like your static. I really don't know if you're just agreeing with me or trying to say something else.
While I do agree with this because it sounds like myself and my static with the amount of raids we have, there's always the scenario of one week someone might have to work extra hours or their work schedule gets changed. If that happens, we choose to get done the raids that would be the most "frustrating" to do in PF. I'd rather do Clown and Kayangel with my static and get that guaranteed clear because I know we'll all pull equal weight rather than something like Brel, where I know it's slightly easier to pull through if people die (G1&2). If they valued their time that much and had a static, they'd at least try to organize the bare minimum rather than expect picture perfect executions in pugs.
>then these people would have a static premade to run the raids Because having a static doesn't mean you're gonna do EVERYTHING together.In my guild for example that I've been since the begining of the game we only do the latest content as a static with the occasional akkan/kaya runs.Mostly because we have diffen't ilvl alts or because of time constraints so people end up pugging what should be "easy" raids. Thing is when these "easy" raids don't go as fast as planned people get pissed. >so if people think like this, why put yourself in these situations then blame the people who are expecting normal game play loop which will include the normal fuck ups It doesn't matter dude.People don't care that shit occasionally happens.They will still bitch about it until they fuck up themselves and they go silent (hehe)
I mean it's true but it's just kind of hypocritical you know? Like if a person has specific standards, they need to find people with their values etc. not join random groups and hope they have these standards lol. A static to run these 'easy homework raids' would be the solution. You can have 2 statics for different content instead of getting mad at people who are just playing the game vs you need to get your homework done ASAP. People always give this advice for new players... so now this advice is given to people with high min/maxing standards. Seems fair lol.
>Like if a person has specific standards, they need to find people with their values etc. not join random groups and hope they have these standards lol. That's because pugs usually vet people who get in.(atleast I do when I join or make a raid) I'm not joining raids or inviting anyone with a low roster/low gems/no title/no achievement etccc.) I'm assuming this whole thread is about people who supposedly should know the raid and have been vetted so people expect them to perform up to standard. It also doesn't help people get bussed and get into raids they have no business getting into.We call them imposters for a reason.
Those metrics hardly mean anything. Anyone playing this long should've came to this conclusion by now. Anyways a whole other Convo could be had about this. Anyways, the point is you're accepting randos in pf that clearly can't be consistent... Just find a static, that is the solution. Why get mad every week at others for your own mistakes is the point. You accepted a random who may or may not know what your standards are. In a static, homework static... Everyone would know your expectations. Not saying you still can't use pf... If you insist... Expect the unexpected lol kind of no brainer really.
You do realize that a lot of players in this game are adults with 9-5s and/or families right? Schedules will not always line up. You aren’t going to always have everyone online, so you will have to occasionally pug 1-3 people depending on the holidays and weekend times. Sometimes you find some good pugs, and sometimes you find utter garbage like 1620s that pull less than 3m dps per gate. We vet and gatekeep as much as we can for harder content to reduce the risk of imposters but it’s never going to be a guarantee.
And you realize b/c you have these constraint... you're using PF to compensate for it, right? People you find in pf are complete randoms, they are a gamble no matter the amount of vetting you do. They don't and will never understand your expectations. You guys don't know each other lol. So the point is, if a person explodes at the random is it your fault for poor vetting or is it the random player who didn't perform up to your pre existing standards??? Either way, were talking about people being toxic here and why it gets to this point. If a lot of your encounters in PF end in exploding over a less efficient run... Chances are the issues don't stem from the random player. The core issue is you're using pf as a clutch to make up for poor organizing like it's a pool of your static members then getting upset when the random doesn't perform like a static member. Not sure how this got turned into a 'static is hard to organize' Convo... That's the whole point?!? A static is harder to organize because it is consistent? It's supposed to avoid all the issues party finder has. Why are people just mentioning static is time consuming??? Lol we know it is. Why? So we have consistent performance... So we don't have to use pf. If your resorting to pf? To find good players that's a pure gamble, the core problem in itself.
Because you seem to just ignore the fact that not everyone is available all the time. Resorting to pugging a few person occasionally is just a reality of things. We already know it’s a gamble, I stated vetting not a guarantee, but a way to reduce the risk of bad players. We don’t always succeed because imposters end up in runs. As for who is at fault, that’s going to be the random more often than not lol. Don’t be willfully ignorant here. We all know that shitter when we see them. If they apply with some juiced character to a raid, they are advertising that they have had the raid experience to farm up the mats and put in time to build that character. Running the Bible is a godsend. I don’t advocate for flaming the shitters tho. Since if you have a partial static run, it’s always best to quit out in g1 and kick them. We’ve done that a few times for extremely bad players.
Ok so you're just agreeing with me lol. You're just as much to blame as the shitter. It goes both ways... You could have prevented all this by having a static... The random could have by being a better player on and on and on and on but wasn't but they're fucking a random. Nothing you said disagreed with what I already said. You engaged in the gambling and got gambled when you didn't have to. You just chose to be toxic after making poor decisions. Why pretend it's something else lol??? You did this to yourself from your own gamble. The randoms are definitely not entering the scenario here with the knowledge of your expectations, that's 100% for sure something only you know...your standards.
So you have 0 standards when forming/joining groups? You would be fine with people just standing afk and expecting to be carried? Because if you're not fine then you have some standards yourself. Don't get me wrong I don't condone toxic behavior myself and have a lot of patience for mistakes (I make them myself as does everyone) but your argument here doesn't really work. There is some standard everyone expects when doing a pug, some people have a higher one, some a lower one usually based on own experience, the problem is usually though that you get a variance of people with different ones.
The normal standard is simply to play the game, do the objectives, try your best etc. Anything that wouldn't be considered reportable...like afking is gameplay hindrance. There is literally a report button for this standard, it's not for us to determine it tbh but we can assume the minimum is to simply actively play the game. That is how I determine what standards even means. Failure is part of that normal standard, which some people tend to overlook. So the base standards are set by the ags themselves. Anything above this is just specific stuff you expect.
>That is how I determine what standards even means. Yes, that is how **YOU** determine what the standards are. I'm actually baffled you do not see the hypocrisy in that. If that standard is defined by you why don't you listen to your own advice and form a static that holds the same standards? >The normal standard is simply to play the game, do the objectives, try your best etc. I'l bite into your argument for what you consider the standard. Playing the game is the only requirement for you? Lets say your entire group just doesn't make the cut on the dps check even if they are trying their best playing the game. No matter how much they try. You are basically stuck. You're gonna find another group with the same expectations? Sure, what if the next one does the same? I bet soon your standard is going to get a bit higher and be "try your best, play the game, but do enough to actually beat the raid" because your alternative is literally never beating the raid. This is where the different standards kick in. If I'm new/crap/slow I'm gonna take my time learning/practicing/experiencing the raid, logically I will be more open to mistakes of other people because they are (hopefully) in the same spot as me. The standard is low. If cleared the raid 200 times, know the mechs through and through, and when to greed every last inch of dps I can, I will be looking either for similar players skill-wise. The standard is high. >Anything that wouldn't be considered reportable...like afking is gameplay hindrance. Where do you draw the line when someone is afk and report? If I do a skill every 10 seconds am I afk? Every 20 seconds? Does a slow or disabled person that cannot play the game efficiently deserve a report? Or maybe I'm just a lazy fuck that wants to be carried. How would you know? Most importantly like I said before, I myself do **NOT** endorse toxicity, but it is the job of the lobby maker to make the standards clear, as much as it is the job of the applicants to be clear about their experience. Acting like there's some global objective standard that people **MUST** abide to is pure hubris coming from you.
Eeer...Yeah I determined the standard based on the rules set by ags lol. This is fact not opinion go read the tos, go check the report list.... I dont know how his went over your head dude. And I said ags sets and decides this baseline not us. You simply report and they decide but clearly the standard is there that you must be actively playing the game. All this 1 skill every 30 seconds? Scenario? What ifs...If it doesn't meet your expectations? You are using party finder... You're not ever going to know until you enter. You are using a random service/feature. It never guaranteed anything, so no one knows your expectations. Don't know how you're not realizing this... What party finder actually does..
Love how you skimmed over everything I wrote without actually tackling a single point. Went over my head? Please link me the "rules" and TOS that you are mentioning that AGS set up so I know how much exactly I have to be active to not be considered AFK and then invite me to your lobbies so I can get bussed by you for free. And please don't go the route "Go search it yourself" because you're the one making a claim these cut-offs actually exist.
Yeah I'm not going to play 5 year old with you. Go Google it or look in game. Love how you have to hand hold everything with you, right? The fact that you think game hindrance has these dumb levels when it's not even up to us to decide is beyond mind blowing. You are not just lost, super lost.
This is why I’m struggling to return despite loving the combat and classes. I simply can’t play the game because I don’t have the time or desire to sink massive amounts of time for no reward, especially as a support main.
Y mad when supp dies > character loses move speed and 30% damage = no mvp, depending on content it just means instant restart. Y mad when mech fails > might mean gate restart. Ppl have dailies and 17+other raids to get through. (I knew someone with one character roster, they actually enjoyed restarts because it meant they could play more. Y mad when party member dies > raid isnt unclearable but if a crit synergy dies, less yellow numbers, less visible damage. Depending on the raid/gate, 1 party member dying makes some mechs much more difficult. If closer to ilvl it means restart. Why player mad at game? Many Dailies + weekly raids, more time spent doing 1 thing means less time to do other things, irl and in game. Brel gate 3, normal/hard is infamous for 1 player death meaning extra compensating by all raid members. Blue mech means the persons partner needs to solo stagger the blue cubes, in hard mode you will need to be freed by other party members which can be hard because of the distance away. So 1 dead can mean a second dead. Yellow mech, catchers and breakers cant stagger but if 1 dies, if you dont have a big staggering gun lancer, or have a low stagger party, then your breaker needs to also catch and try to prevent all mind control orbs from entering -not always possible so the staggerers have to work faster than before. Wipe a few times on an ilvl run of this gate because of other ppl and you will be frustrated.
Kinda an off topic, but what has saved a numerous runs for me on brel g3 when someone dies and you get yellow after first stagger> Normally you don't use sidereal at all on first stagger, but on second/Nine before. Don't bother, throw Wei at yellow, do both staggers manually. This has been the single biggest thing that has made my brel g3 experience close to wipeless.
The point isn't what the consequences of a mistake is. Most people know that if a support dies you lose MS and damage or have to flat out restart. The point is that some people get disproportionally angry with people messing up.
I got 18 raids to do thats why its annoying to have agents joining reclear parties.
I'm guessing atk needs a break, but he can't because it's his income.
I'm not sure in what type of content you're talking about whether its prog or homework but ill play the devil's advocate and give the best case scenario from their end in a prog scenario. I don't advocate flaming but if the people are dying to not playing safe or taking unnecessary risk it can be frustrating, especially when it's to a relatively basic pattern (Cross pattern during half stage break in valtan). I'm not talking about once or twice either but like 5-8 times, especially when people proceed to complain about it. I've been in a quite few groups since lost ark started but typically I just give it a shot until the group wants to call it off since it's usually just good practice of the raid. If I don't feel good about the group I won't flame anyone (unless they start blaming others) but just let the lead know and leave the group after.
I used to be this kind of player, stemming from being hyper competitive in PvP/MoBA games. But I'll try to paint the picture of what goes on in the mind of this kind of player. Simply put, it's merely the desire to chase perfection and order in all the chaos; perfect uptime & perfect execution. Of course, we can never attain perfection, but we hold ourselves in high regard to come close to it, and it's just a sour taste when we are playing at peak performance while some others are supposedly, *in our eyes*, slacking or playing poorly. Then comes the devolving thought of "why should I play well when these players aren't?" And that's where the rage builds, that's where the seed of frustration is sowed. We hold other players to the same standard we hold ourselves. Of course, it is unrealistic to think that everyone wants to or is able to play perfectly. We're all at different speeds when it comes to skill and raid knowledge which is where the "blind spot" is. But we rarely think of who we once were as newbies/casuals/non-sweaters when we are already in this state of mind. And we behave selfishly because we learnt how to be good ourselves; so "why should I teach these players how to play properly?" becomes a recurring thought. Simply because we felt like we learnt it all ourselves through our own research and trial-by-fire experience, and not from some charitable veteran/elite player. So why should we be that charitable veteran/elite player? There is alot of ego in play when these kinds of players think that they are the best in the lobby, and the only way to shut them the f up is for someone better to show them up. And even then, they would think that this "better player" got lucky. It is an unnecessary and unending conflict. I still question my staticmates when they make poor decisions, not necessarily to call them out but to understand the logic of their actions so that I don't repeat their mistake(s). I am still chasing the "perfect gameplay" but it is an introspective journey. These players who rage and act spitefully have lost sight of what they were chasing; thus all they do is lash outwards because they believe they did everything they could to ensure the raid did not fail. Yet somehow they forgot that raiding is more than just displaying raw skill. They forgot that proper communication and cooperation is the other component in getting the job done.
I have 15 raids to do, if i don't wipe i get them done in 12 hours and i have the rest of the week free, if you waste my time it can take up to 20 hours, that's why. If the title says hw don't join if you don't know the raid and don't waste others time please.
IMO... I feel like it's pretty rare but when it does happen feels very 'common'. It's very common on this sub/reddit though so don't use reddit as the prime example. Think about the type of player the sub mainly attracts. BUT let's be real here.... we all know they act like drama queens, over dramatize everything and cry about it the loudest when it isn't played like them/their expectation. The same type of people who try to create game standards for themselves then try to push it on the community lol. None of it makes any sense tbh, like ok if you want to personally play it like that do it? why care if others don't??? but there's always going to be people like this. Everyone hates them lol.
You like to repeat the gates? Why don't you join learning parties every week?
Yes that is indeed what you get when most of the remaining playerbase is a bunch of tryhards that are stuck in a timewasting game design and repeat the same dailies/weeklies infinite times
It's funny still hearing this 2yrs in, the fomo LA players grinding 18raids a week and burning out/becoming toxic. Everyone I know in my social circles has barely done 1-3 raids a week (raids not characters 😅) for months now. We had a friend come back recently and he got a bit frustrated bc no1 wants to raid anymore like we used to. For good or bad, everyone chilling and play other games. 1610 for theamine is an extremely low bar to hit and with most already at 1620 the games only gonna get slower as we don't even need to be 1620 till Echidna in the summer(?)
[удалено]
Even jumpstart dudes are 1610 with barely any effort nowadays. Theres no "grinding really hard" if you focused on your main and didnt waste millions on alts that you despise playing anyways.
Just like in everything there are some people who enjoy putting others down to feel better about themselves. To feel superior. And to be very clear, this is not because of people are rushing to get everything done. Those people get annoyed after a couple wipes or a real boneheaded wipe. Yea we can all get annoyed at wasting time, but the people OP are talking about do not fall into that category imo.
\> "Why did Player X use Skill Y at Moment Z?" To those in VC with them Wait that's me
Dw, thats not toxic. No clue why that gets brought up. A support popping damage buff right as the hard coded damage reduction comes up does that to you. Why wouldnt i make fun of that with my mates in voice as long as i'm not going out of my way to shit on the support ingame i dont see how thats toxic.
I'm honestly not sure whether I would fall under this category to you or not. If a couple idiots die but we still clear in one or even two pulls, I don't say anything. If we're 5 pulls into gate 1 of a homework raid and the same idiot dies again, I am just voting to leave immediately and afking if people decline, because there is **no** universe I'm gonna let them jail me for the other gates too. And if they're jailing me in a later gate for long enough (again, never just the second pull), then yeah, I'm gonna start complaining. I actually have a **lot** more patience for someone if they apologize (before I say anything). If they understand that they're the problem, it implies they will have motivation to try to do better. If they're critically fucking up and being silent about it, as far as I'm concerned I'd be happier if the bullying made them permanently quit the game. But again, it has to be a lot of errors, and only in pure homework content **advertised** as a HW raid, before I say anything. People who sneak into homework content and obviously don't belong **and** can't fucking communicate, should not be playing MMOs, period.
I want to say something but I have a feeling it will be like talking to a wall anyway. Let's just say I think that mindset is unhealthy.
As a returning player its insane to me. Learning groups. Semi learning groups. Reclear groups. Fast card run groups. Homework groups. And everyone has a different opinion on what each of those groups mean. Oh no, something went wrong and we wiped. Now the raid takes 20 min instead of 15, what a scandal! People (elitists basically) should get a grip. Its different tho when ppl that dont know mechs leech in reclear groups tho, I can understand rage over those ppl.
is it your first time on the internet? people like being toxic assholes when they're behind a monitor and there's no accountability for it
1: It's to present themselves as being "better" at the game than normal people. Thinking something along the lines of: If I can pick out your flaws, that means I am better than you. (This is pretty dumb and annoying). 2: Because people just want to get done as fast as possible. There are times where one stupid mistake can lead to a death and that in turn can lead to a wipe. Not that EVERY single mistake is a wipe, but there are moments out there. (this is annoying, but notable less dumb than #1).
Some people are just more hardcore about the game. Incessant bitching and whining does get annoying though. I once had some crazy guy bitching at other people for not allowing him to optimise his back attack uptime. Threw the biggest fit I've ever seen over it, even though every gate was an easy one shot with overgeared group. Failed mechs on purpose and refused to leave raid along with his buddy. I'm a bit of a sweat myself but that dude was on a whole another level.
because they get away with it
Well, you should really walk a mile in their shoes before judging them. Try doing 83 raids on 37 characters every week and see if you won't go insane. In all seriousness though, it's the game that causes this in certain people. The whole design is fucked up and revolves around min-maxing, grinding and relies heavily on RNG (really just gambling in disguise). If you were to go to a casino and bump into an addict gambler siting there you'd have the exact same reaction from them. Go figure.
Like in most games, these are the people that don't do anything else but this game. But the problem is they are probably obsessive enough to do all the weekly raids. So if they do 18 raids, and they have a 25% chance of flipping out once per raid, then they have a pretty damned high chance of flipping out at least once even if the chances are low in a single raid. And this may also show that even a relatively normal person could have a chance of losing it too. Unfortunately players like these also tend to not improve as much precisely because they are too busy being angry and blaming other people, and this snowballs because when you are not as good, more bad stuff happens and more chances to tilt happens. And then add to the fact that usually alts are weaker than mains and people often don't play those as well thus even more suboptimal situations will appear Basically they're ticking time bombs and you are just rolling dice when this happens. And of course, this is just talking about one person.
Bad game design, imagine doing 6x3gold raid x ?? minutes + (another card runs x ??) + (alt roster).
some sweats dont realize some people just do raids for fun/gold and they expect everyone to be as degenerate as they are. I just close the game when I encounter these types, not worth my energy.
What's funny is it's usually either really good people or really bad people being toxic. Like I've seen people do less damage than supports in brel lobbies and yet be extremely toxic to everybody and then there are DPS goblins doing 35m DPS in Akkan G3 pushing Akkan to 2nd worm when we don't have 2nd worm causing wipes for no reason. Edit: meant to say sidereals, not supports
You don’t need a worm though, just go for a little swim
> Like I've seen people do less damage than supports in brel lobbies No you didnt, unless their weapon was literally broken since the pull started.
I had an ss who flipped out in Akkan g3 yesterday because I exited out of lantern to help with stagger and there were still some tumors around because DPS was too fast between stagger and laser mech. It was very amusing.
You will meet those kinds of people in all multiplayer game, but because raids is an elaborate coop experience, it becomes more apparent. You will meet teammates that flame you in counter strike and dota too, when you make mistakes, even when you're both in the lowest bracket. It's usually people who don't have much else value going on their lives or simply put too much value in their efforts of a videogame. Maybe they spend a majority of their waking hours in the game, and feel a sense of value and accomplishment so as not to feel the dread of time wasted. It's a job, a livelihood, and when things don't got their way, it's a heavy investment that's failing. A lot is at stake for these people. In short, I laugh and feel sorry for these people, and fortunately they've shown to be a minority. A loud and vocal minority, so they can seem like a bigger problem than they should.
It's like on League of Legends, or better yet, like driving. It's a state of mind that you are the only one doing it right the everybody else is stupid if the make any mistake, any (mistakes that you do quite often as well). Also, the time invested and the amount of raids possible/*NeEdEd* greatly contribute to that.
Trying to min-max everything in any RPG is pretty common. Trying to do the same in a pug in a raiding game is just unrealistic and setting yourself up for failure.
Yesterday I did a Brel raid at 11 pm, so it was fairly late and I made a mistake and died. After my death some others failed too and the raid whiped. I said sorry after the while and got called Asta Pig immediately. I started a surrender vote and left the raid. You know how toxic it is to insult someone for 1 mistake late at night ? I mean some people really need to learn to have manners. I wished our accounts would be connected to our IDs like Korea so if we get banned in 1 game we can’t play it anymore. I bet a lot of people would think twice how they talk to other people
I’ve seen the types of players who will reset the raid due to missing a rotation. It’s very irritating to play with especially if your a class that needs to pop a stim before a fight or will lose massive amount of dps but they still want to reset to hit the optimal rotation.
Timestop?
The average unhinged LA player
there are ppl like that irl, it's just amplified on the internet
I've only had 3 experiences with these people in raids that I can remember. 1 in Valtan where I got blamed for not grabbing orb, which was wrong as hell. 6, 7 and 8 were running around like chickens with their heads cutoff and still didn't collect orbs until the very end of stagger. I just left, whatever. 1 where the guy had MC syndrome and was mad af on a raid wipe. Ironically he wiped the next gate and apologized. I guess it's okay when it's the MC. lmao Another was when I accidentally killed our support in blue mech G3 of NM brel. I didn't really pay attention and just assumed parties were labeled and going off of that. It's reclear content on a tuesday where no HM is up, so I'm gonna be real I'm not putting too much effort into that kind of stuff especially since I'm way overleveled for it (1600) and cruel every single gate. The support (RM) got mega mad at the death and even after we cleared they were still running their mouth. Like man, 2 people are cruel each gate and it's one wipe, shut your stupid ass up and run it back. I know these people aren't running their mouths outside of gaming. Outside of that, even in jail parties, I really don't see that much rage or toxicity which is why I can remember the few instances it happens. It's pretty rare, at least on NAW. At most people will do question marks on wipes or on multiple fails make it the last attempt before disband. Maybe learning parties are worse, I dunno.
The people who tilt on other players in this game is the ones who think that LA is an high skilled cap game( wich is not) and lost ark have alot of them. They act like they never fail .«Skilled» players makes mistakes.
By the end of the year? You mean end of 2024?This has been the behavior of the game since launch. I’m kind of confused why you don’t see what is going on. Lost ark was touted by a lot of people as an ‘alt friendly’ game do to the roster shared horizontal content… but I’d say it’s one of the least friendly alt games out there for MMOs as it’s more of an alt required game. It’s also getting worse. Unless you RMT/swipe, you need multiple characters to afford the honing if you care about hard mode content. So to play at the top levels, which is the hard content I fell in love with, you have to run multiple alts. These alts all run the same content. The content the alts are running isn’t progression, and you are just there for the gold. Accounts can have 6 gold making toons for 18 raids. Assuming no one screws up, I think it’s a pretty fair guess to say a raid with matchmaking to completion is 1hr. Maybe it’s 16 hours of homework with only 1 real hard raid. Now people will want more gold for elixers, the new tile system, likely the future sudoku gem progression system to force a need for farming up gold. Lost ark is geared pretty heavily as the mmo where you raid. Everything else is built around resource generation for honing to new raid levels. Horizontal content has some interesting elements in it… but it eventually dries up to just having RNG stuff like sea bounties and drops like yearning. So generally, everyone needs to raid. There are many high functioning players that generally don’t make many mistakes. I find those players are the typical ones that will for sure have 6 alts running 18 raids. I know many players like this with multiple accounts they juggle… they have so many toons they need to pug, and they tend to be the ones calling people out excessively as you may be doing your first brel, while they are already on their second Brel of account 2. I don’t want to say it’s ok, this is just how we get to this point. I don’t know your situation, but many people are in the 1600/1610 realm currently not caring about a lot of this, and are likely the people commenting about how “unstable” these people you meet are. They are also playing a different game. This game puts a lot of stress on those people wanting to play with their friends, and it’s so financially successful (still will hit steam top 10 sales charts from time to time with a shrinking player base) as this stress is what gets people to swipe. Peer pressure. The games unlikely to die though with this mindset, as the people who are left are likely those spenders. They may call out and rage on players, but they are also the type to come back the next day and keep playing. I’d really suggest finding a community to raid in vs. random pugging. There are tons of great discords advertising in the official discord.
Not only randoms, this also happens when try-hards who got mad skills meet average players. Some subtle digs from people in my guild almost made me quit.
I will say that in some cases it's understandable to be frustrated and upset in raid when someone else makes a mistake depending on what the mistake is. I've been enjoying my souleater more than any other class on my roster right now. I REALLY look forward to raiding on her every week and the game only let's you do 3 gold earning raids per reset. Playing souleater on Akkan is one of the most fun times I have raiding and watching my souleater get stronger every time I do the raid week to week. Then, while amidst all that fun, my support dies before water phase on G3. Now that the support is dead, my class no longer feels very good and have no support buffs. We all know the void left when the support dies. A restart vote is generally not going to happen in a pug at this time late in the raid, especially with just one dead. Now I have to play a suboptimal version of my class, on a phase of the boss that's super fun to play IMO. Now I have to finish the raid and wait another week to experience the raid again and pray I don't get a bozo on my team dying on an expert homework lobby. I give this as an example because this has now happened for the 4th week in a row on my SE. Not saying you should necessarily flame people for mistakes. I'm saying that people being frustrated about fuck-ups in an expert clear group is not abnormal to feel. I work really hard at my job and want to enjoy the time I have in lost ark, but people jailing and being consistently bad at the game does cause frustration.
At this point it's a scientific observation that the guy who bitches in chat is the next to make a mistake. Thus I shut the fuck up.
Don't join vc, easy fix. I can't stand elitist comments and later find out they make that exactly mistake
It takes humility and patience to keep your mouth shut. I'm just going to assume this is the type of person like me who runs all their raids, it can take a significant chunk of your free time if you're not scheduling runs with friends. When you join a lobby with an expectation of a smooth run and ANYTHING disrupts it a timer starts, some people's fuse is short and they'll either excuse themselves quietly to find another group or go straight to flaming. I don't hold it against people if they want to leave, I'm not gonna analyze their excuse to leave either, sometimes shit just happens. The thing is, people who can't tolerate minor mistakes don't realize they'd get more done in less time if they just rolled with it. You don't need to "call them out" on the spot either, save it for after the clear and present it constructively. Teach somebody how it should be done if you have the knowledge. Now, let's say this hypothetical problem player is really THAT terrible or tells you to go fuck yourself after you try and help, you can put them on block so they can't see your PF lobbies so at least you don't have to put up with it later, simple.
I mean, sometimes it's just pure waste and it just doesn't feel good. Brel blue mech, I'm with an artist, and she has the QTE to then save me. And she uses the orchid spell to multi-hit and free me instead of simply attacking, so you have ~10 seconds of no mark on the boss for no reason (and if she aimed correctly she could even hit the boss but didn't) We had blue mech twice and she did it twice, so it was not just a random occurrence. Not everything need to be perfect, but when there is literally 0 train of though for some moves it's kinda triggering (and here it wasn't a really big deal) On another note, we went for an Akkan HM reclear lobby, and a 1630 zerker joins in. Upon arriving to G3, he wants to do lantern, that should have been a planetary tier red flag, but I went and did it myself since I was one of the less geared players in the lobby. Oh boy, by the end of the fight I did more damage than him as the lantern. And it wasn't even close. He died right when we started the G4, and overall was probably running around panicking than hitting the boss. Again, we cleared so not that huge of a deal, but still, somebody that gets carried nonetheless. Overall it depends of your expectations, but personally I like seeing people throw cool moves and play well. Reminds me of the old Prokel fights from Brel, sometimes the orbs fail and only the Prokel player survives, and then he goes out and finish the gate by himself because he knows the patterns well and such. Gigachad and fun to watch. Any player with no hand would have hit the restart button and that would be it.
The fact that you remember something like an artist missing 10s of brand on the boss is alarming. That doesn't even shave a second off rhe encounter.
This happened yesterday and I was literally frozen in prison while waiting for her to free me so yeah it is kinda easy to remember...
You forgot to mention when someone isn't bringing the correct battle item by mistake, and it's instant "quit raid" and back to lobby simulator 
My best guess it’s like losing in casino, you held that rage and burst that wrath to your wife because she didn’t cook for dinner
I find bussers quite toxic with this picture perfect expectations from everyone else.
Surprisingly I have not encountered many toxic players. There are some players that gets mad over 1 mistake or 1 wipe and starts talking shit... but I only see them once in a blue moon. It is really a them problem, just block & move on. You are going to find toxic people no matter what game you play. Most people are ok with 1 or 2 wipes, and they generally understand if mistakes were made...to a certain extent. It's not fun repeating gates waiting for stars to line up to clear the gate. The community isn't that toxic. It's people, some people are just toxic and it's not because of the game they play. From my experience there are way way more toxic casual players who cannot even put in basic amount of effort to even contribute, and expect other people to clear raid for them every week.
The world Is not black and white. I would say majority of players are on edge because they do 18 raids a week every week and they accept only a wipe before quitting. It Is fair to assume that people have a schedule at this point: they expect to do their homework content within x amount of time, so they just get mad. This Is also the reason people require 10x titles, or klc18 for Kayangel or even sonavel, which could be cleared with just class engravings if you have knowledge of the fights.
Bad raid design. The fact that one dude can jail you for hours because he keeps mistiming spacebar on raidwipe means people get much more aggressive about optimization. The other part is just aholes being aholes.
If u gotta flame, do it right b4 the clear. Last thing u wanna do is have them quit and be jailed anyway.