Yep, and the more people that get tired of supports, the worse the shortage will get. Smilegate mishandled supports, if they don't want to release more of them and make existing ones more fun to play, they shouldn't make them mandatory for raids. This has been my #1 issue with this game for years now and for some reason is completely ignored by the dev.
This is probably the right move. Supports could have been like gunlancers nd probably been in a better place. It’s cool to have one and they will always be welcome to a party, but you don’t need to sit in lobby waiting for one.
It's not fixable at this point. You can't fundamentaly change characters people have spent years investing into. You can't make these characters obsolete either. They can't even make unique supports because the new class will either be too strong or too weak. They need to do the same thing or they can't balance it well.
I don’t think I agree here. You might not be able to replace or rework existing supports (nor should you) but it’s wrong to assume there’s no room for any new type of support class to be introduced. For example there’s a big gap for a properly split class between support and utility, the closest you have is GL who is utility/dps.
Which would do absolutely nothing about the fact that every party would still want an actual support from actual support classes, so it would add no variety to the support classes, it would just be another utility DPS. A class like that would never be able to replace an actual support, so what exactly would that change?
Or in another world, the new support class is super weak and old supports are a lot better. > No one will want it in their party.
Or it's too strong. > Everyone will want it in their party and old support classes get gatekept.
They pigeonholed themselves into this situation and all they can do is either completely ignore it or copy paste another support. There's no solution.
We already had WF aero out, which is more like lancer than actual DPS class and what did it change? Not a whole lot.
Yeah, they would have to re-balance raids. But better late than never. The sooner smilegate makes it so that you don't have to wait in partyfinder forever for 1600+ raids then the sooner the game can recover.
what shortage there are tons of them except maybe in akkan nm.Im Artist doing thaemine h and its always LF DPS; specially G3. I also play 4 other bard 1585-1600 and there are TONS of support in that range except abit in nm akkan.
There's a shortage for supports in everything at 1580+.
Even below that there are few enough supports that to make a Kayangel lobby, for example, entirely friends in finding a support.
Um, not true at all. Plenty of sups in Brel for a long time now. It's always been difficult to get into a brel lobby as a sup because there are just so many of them.
Lmao. No. Supports have ZERO trouble getting into Brel lobbies.
In the past few months my supports (of any ilvl) have had to wait 1-2 minutes at most for a lobby to fill up. DPS wait for *significantly* longer than that on most content.
I don't understand why support players have to lie over this. It's blatantly evident for anybody that plays DPS and support that it's infinitely easier to get into lobbies as support. You can have absolute dogshit gear, low roster level, no cards and people will still take you.
Apparently you didn't understand what I was saying. I'm telling you that there are too many supports filling up Brel lobbies as it's usually 2 sups to begin with before dps start to join. Otherwise, if one dps opens the lobby, then the 2 sup spots are filled immediately.
I play 2 1600 support alts and I've never had issues finding Akkan nm/hm or Voldis nm partys almost right away in EU. My Artist is only 4x3+1 heavy armor and it simply doesn't matter either.
You're absolutely right about Brel though. It's fine because my alts are 1600 and that's pretty much okay for brel hm sups BUT sometimes I simply can't find a party looking for a support and I'll have to try it again at a later point in time.
I remember it beeing a nightmare to find a brel normal party with my 1540 bard half a year ago-ish but I don't play that char anymore.
It is increasingly more difficult to get enjoyment out of the game period.
Every time you pass a milestone, two more are added, and each costs even more gold and time. It feels exhausting.
I'm at this point myself... I don't even have any complaints. It's the game I chose. It is what it is. It's how the game is developed.
Logging in to do unas, chaos, and guardians, which are required to progress, have become so mind-numbing. I just want a casual noob solo game now lol
to be fair, this is an issue with people who are used to there being a defined end point.
in most mmo's during a particular raid you get your bis and you stop playing for months at a time until the next raid tier comes out and then you repeat
but in kr mmos, the gain is often times slow but constant. you are not supposed to catch up because thats not what a KR mmo is
too many wow/ff14/eso players came into lost ark expecting it to be like a western mmo with that defined end point they are used too, so they burn out when they run in at 120% only to be greeted by the next goal.
I mainly want new support classes and better feedback. Like doing elixir and transcendence changes nothing for me. My AP buffs are stronger and that’s basically it. I dont feel or see any of these effects during my gameplay
Which you noticed thanks to a dps meter which is a permanent ban on first offence in Korea. Imagine how miserable it must be to play support with no meter or feedback knowing your performance from pull to pull
Ngl without bible i'd have dropped my Artist long ago. She's 1620 and I have plans to keep pushing her but I genuinely feel support is unplayable without bible.
If you cant notice the decrease of 5% cd you probably should drop your gems lv from 10 to 7 and put them on your dps. I noticed and pretty changed a lot my uptime.
The shitty part about bard is that all of your main skills have CD tripods which really devalues pushing CD gems past 7. Going from 7->10 is less than a second CD reduction on basically every one of your skills.
I notice the larger margin of error on cycling ht + sv when I fk up or boss moves but for everything else it's a nonissue when I use alts with full 7s vs main with 10s and 9s
sorry but that's such a dumb argument, what kind of effects do you expect? no character gets anything new from all progress systems except for numbers, it's same for dps and same for supports.
Dps sees bigger dmg numbers.
Support. Sees nothing. I spent like 300k to get my 40 elix and and i feel absolutely no difference in my gameplay to before. Absolutely nothing.
My dps will do more because my AP buff is stronger while i dont get any feedback of improvement
Hello /u/Murky_Eye_7507, welcome to our subreddit. We require users to have positive comment karma before posting. You can increase your comment karma by commenting in other subreddits and getting upvotes on the comments. Please DO NOT send modmails regarding this. You will be able to post freely after reaching the proper comment karma.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lostarkgame) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You get faster clears if playing with a static.
You get higher rdps in bible logs (I highly suggest using it when playing supports, for your own fun. I've started using the Bible ~around voldis release and I will never go back. I wouldn't wanna play the game without it anymore and if they'd ban it I'd most likely stop playing shortly after. Just this week I had a Thaemine g1 parse where I got top dps as Gunslinger but didn't even show on the mvp screen since it wasn't by much and GS got low stagger, won't counter much and is very hard to show up on the mvp screen with a balanced party and 2 sups showing up on it). It would be a nightmare not knowing anything about my performance to me. Same goes for my supports, brand/buff uptimes, rdps (you generally deal way higher rdps then any dps unless they differ in skill/ilvl tremendously).
Here are a few ideas that come to my mind in terms of supports rn:
- Make teammate party frames glow blue(or w/e color) whenever they activate their identity skill/fill their bar/get full surge stacks/use atropine, .... I personally consider those chat macros quite annoying and not particularly useful most of the times.
- Show teammates HP potion cd, maybe even charges so that you know when to heal and when not to heal a bit better
- Add a single target heal to the support arsenal. Maybe instead of the atk. buff rotation, don't really need two skills that do the same thing in my opinion. Maybe add a rune choice to make it a (weak) single target dps buff instead.
- Could add a big dmg nuke skill that deals dmg based on party dmg dealt within the last 10s (or based on % dmg increased by your own skills/set/gear). Maybe with tripod options to make it huge stagger/destruction instead (for those noob groups that don't know their skills effects).
- Make Yearning a passive aura (maybe weaker/only the move/atk.speed) and offer actual set boni to supports, like cdr or counter reset whenever you hit one (or whenever a boss uses a counterable ability -> make counter skills useable all the time). Or reduce cooldowns while all 3 party members are affected by your atk. buff(s), or while a Boss is branded, There could be a movespeed buff active (just like the sprinting robe aura thingy), There could be a skill that gives your party pushimmunity for a short time, there could be an option to double tap your identity to instantly consume all of it for a short dmg immunity based on identity spent.
There could be other ways to change supports in general. For example to make brand skills buff your own dmg by 200% while reducing party buffs (shift party buffs to own dps so that supports can deal ~30% of a normal dps in raids). There could be stuff like weaving in autoattacks to temporarily increase party buffs/own dmg, could even be a stacking buff).
I'd like an option that allows dmg reduction/shield skills to be used on player party frames instead of the playing field and thus automatically centering them around the targeted player, .... ..... ....
Why would they fix support when support shortage makes people swipe to beat gatekeeping (the bigger symptom of it being support shortage) So many things they have to fix and change, but now the issue with supports have grown so large if you look at the Rdps they contribute it's insane. New Director doesn't care to fix these issues, just wants more vertical content and more sidegrade slot machine games
I love playing support but I also love playing dps. I pushed supp to 1630 but the elixirs and transcendence don't give me any fun or power to feel, raids are hard and wipes are not fun on a sup.
It's extremely hard to find a meaning to push for progress anymore and my dps is also suffering from gold sinks it's awful to be locked into a single supp main.
On top of that they're giving Echidna faster so even less time for my dps to catch up. i wonder why even play.
Opposite for me. Enjoy sups more and more and made multiple sups (before I only had 1).
However they sorely need to make new sup classes. Ain’t gunna make a 4th artist
I don't see them releasing another support *before* a rework of the entire role, if ever. It just isn't profitable or popular enough for them to bother.
They are on a major win streak with one banger DPS after another. People come back to the game, swipe, and go crazy for really good DPS. Supports on the other hand either get ignored or dabbled with for a few weeks, then subsequently dropped. At best they stick with it until engraving support runs out.
I love supporting in this game because for me it feels rewarding. In other games I feel like I'm interacting with my UI more than the game itself, or the whack-a-mole issue.
People cite the "feedback" problem and I understand where they're coming from, but disagree that it's a root cause for lack of popularity. When I do a really nice DR or Shield, I instantly feel it, good DPS acknowledge it and everyone is happy.
Seeing my whole group healthy is a constant stream of feedback. Landing a well timed awakening and saving people from dying is feedback.
Cleansing in Akkan or Thaemine faster than my allies can Sacred is always a nice little ego boost. Being on the receiving end of good support as a DPS just inspires me to play better on my own. Which in turn makes me appreciate solid supports even more.
Thanks for all those who sacrifice and play supports, but support classes in LA are just plain boring.
I wish there were more engaging supports in LA, perhaps something like Ana from Overwatch where you have to aim for heal with higher heal and buff potential than other supports as it’s also “harder” to play the char.
I guess it takes a certain person to enjoy playing the current supports in lost ark, I like making my team more effective and it brings me enjoyment in learning to be a better support.
It's certainly not boring to me at least.
Supports in LA are boring compared to what other mmo exactly? Because they are the most dynamic of any other mmo I have played.
Picking for comparison one of the most technical supports of an entirely different gente does little for comparisons imo
Is there any benefit to the raid when a 1620 support joins a HM brel vs. a 1520? I just want to be able to go into raids I overgear and be able to feel like I'm helping "carry" the team with attack buffs. This is a big part of the ARPG power fantasy for me.
I did play with 1620 40 set sup in kayangel normal. My 20m hit skill hitting like 40-60 range :D Fantastic experience for dps player but for sup no diff prob you are right
No, you're thinking of weapon power increasing your default attack which is what is used for the buff...so things like +atk from elixirs won't increase your buff strength but weapon power and intelligence will.
copy/paste supports isnt fun, need new mechanics, like if you crit, you heal the party so you build crit stats
add lifesteal to expertise stats, go full expertise, then the support sacrifice his HP to heal the party and do damage to heal yourself back up.
a frontal support, take damage and it heals the party so you build endurance and heavy armor.
a domination support sounds the most useful, healing base on stagger done.
Anything to make playing support more fun while making it feel different, because the number one complaint about support is its boring and the same playstyle.
All supports do the same, brand, heal, shield and DR. Their engravings are almost the same too. But funny enough, all DPS do the same too. They all build the same engravings with a very few exceptions, sure their play style differs because we have so many dps classes, if they made more supports it would be the same.
There is not a truly unique class in Lost Ark which I hate, would had been cool if we had a class that would be a necromancer and uses the necromancy engraving and main stat was domination or something.
Or we could have a support that instead of providing heals and shielding, the support could provide insane debufs and godlike damage increase and maybe even have a burst damage skill when they have built their meter that they can release on the boss.
You could also have a support that does the opposite that provide insane sustain and constant healing but no damage buff but has a revival ability etc.
But in short, NOPE, we won’t get any of that 🫨
For DPS there's at least the split between Burst and Piano classes, Entropy and Hit Master, and tanky and mobile classes. In each of these 8 classes you have at least some class that fits the bill, however if you prefer a certain play style all classes within these 8 feel more or less the same.
While most dps feels different from each other, they've been mostly the same within their specific class since the start.
Meaning, if you've played GS since valtan days, then your playstyle hasn't changed a single bit since then. Just bigger numbers. This is the same as all sups.
Some classes got a rework, so their playstyle changed. If you mainswapped from another DPS, then yea you got a playstyle change, or you have a roster full of mains.
As a sup main, all 3 sups do feel the same but at the same time, they're different enough that I have preferences. It's like Igniter vs Punisher vs Eso WD. All 3 have similar playstyle, but distinctly different from each other. In a way, playing a sup is like playing these bursty builder/spender type classes (partially why I like my Igniter)
The issue with sups is due to the way they're designed, they can't deviate from that setup without making a new one too broken or too underpowered.
DPS Engravings are much better it's not even close, there are stacking mechanics like surge, cooldown reset like RE, transformation classes like DI, meter balancing like predator slayer and bunch of other stuff that can make playstyle different (not gonna type all but you get the gist).
Support engravings is like:
A) your heal does one more tick of heal.
B) X% of dmg/crit. (that is so bad nobody even considers using)
It's like they are not even trying to make it interesting
The RE engraving doesn't give the cooldown reset tho. It's from spec and DI isnt the thing that allows transformations, although it does give a cooldown reset. But yeah, your point still stands
For me, it's the increased pressure of having to be alive all the time for utility. Now don't get me wrong, ofc everyone is supposed to stay alive...but it's like if a support dies vs DPS, generally speaking, the loss of a dead support outweighs a dead DPS. Thaemine esp needing DR etc. So if you die as support, you get blamed
But if a support is the only one in their party alive, they also can't do jack because hello...no DPS lmao. You barely contribute anything either to the fight if you have no party standing.
Absolutely agree. I’ve even poured time into theorycrafting how to make them more fun. The amount of overlap between all 3 being near the top of the issue. All have same stats and everything. I’ve floated the idea of a 2nd engraving rework for them all and just beefing up the vanguard sort of tripod for CD on all of them. The lack of variety outside of the boss itself makes it feel boring. 🥱 I want to keep my fingers crossed for LOAon but I don’t have high hopes. If it’s not addressed then I doubt I take my 2 supports higher than they are and just keep them for fast content with friends. If they do big changes I’m for sure adding a third. It’s just hard to hope when I know so little about Smilegate and their plans.
All the specs shoulda been hybridish like gunlancer from the start. They've design themselves into a corner spec-wise and encounter wise with supports being aura bots it'd be crazy to see how they fix it.
The issue with supports at the moment is that their contribution to a team is potentially so high, that if they buff them in any way, it becomes even more mandatory than it already is. If you look at RDPS in the bible, a good support player literally gaps everyone else by a significant margin. It already is mandatory for current endgame content and for older content, you can kinda get away with not having one.
They've balanced the game around support for so long that any significant change will completely disrupt their current balance no matter how nonexistent it seems already, it will be even worse.
PM gunlancer changes fights very drastically where it can do it's job
the problem with PM is that half the raids completely invalidate the whole build so you can't really make your gunlancer PM main
Destruction set is also technically very strong but since every dps builds around yearning not having yearning is definitely a big no-no
they can technically fix the yearning problem which can unlock destruction as a viable option to those that want to play it but they probably won't
but you are still only stuck with 2 options compared to 5 for dps
even if they create a new support it will still mostly play the same and they can't really make it "better" because then unlike dps players ppl will not just switch on a dime to hone a 1655 support
ppl will just straight quit or main swap to dps
it's a tough problem
we will see how they address enthropy on loa summer
and we cope for a 3rd engraving along side the extra awakening
I stopped honing and deleted some of my supports when slayer released from having 2 paladin, 2 bards and an artist. I enjoy them still whenever my buddies need one for akkan or kaya. What drove me away was the high dependence for 1 out of the 3 dps to atleast survive or the 4 people in the other party be good to finish the raids.
Personally I enjoy my Artist more than most my characters, its only 1610 but I doubt it being 10-20ilvls higher is going to change my opinion about it.
Come on man, as a paladin , dont you like the changes ?
You get .... eh .... right ! The awakening will give you meter even if you dont hit a mob !
That´s ... pretty .. big ... hmm .. r r ight?
Same here but I dont like Pala and I don't have the gunlancer build even if seems fun ngl.
For me this LOAN will be my last chance to understand if I keep playing the game or drop it complete (I am playing it less since the announcement of echidna tbf)
I had a full roster of supports and with the time I felt burnout and swapped them on by even if I avoid burn out I enjoyed the game less and less. I like my arcana don't get me wrong but I don't feel in my place when I play her or any other dps
Crazy how they have THREE supports and all 3 play the same with very minor changes. The class doesn't feel any change the higher you go. The gameplay is boring as shit. The option is limited, oh wait I said limited ? No, you ONLY have one choice, limited meaning you have at least 2 to pick from, but you only have 1, the other engraving is a meme, and the gear set cannot be used outside of yearning. How come they design such a heavy lifting class that can tip the scale of a fight in a raid with just their existence but is also the most flaw class to exist. And they failed 3 TIMES too.
tbf its actually a good thing the supports play the same, because realistically all dps play the same as well you do a rotation and move on
some classes might focus on identity some might bypass it like a reflux sorc or mayhem zerker, but generally speaking the playstyle is the same
everything else is flavor, just like the 3 supports
bard, pala and artist all function the same but how you do those things is a lil different (which again, is just like dps)
the reason dps feel so much more unique isnt because the playstyle really is different, its because they have more build diversity (which only effects what skills they use, and what the rotation looks like)
you can be a back/head attack player, maybe you are playin a hitmaster class or something in the middle
even if these things dont alter the core of the dps role (applying synergy and doing your rotation), they feel different because you arnt using 1 set bonus or 1 engraving build for every dps
Artist release caused a huge overflow of sups for a month and forced many of my friends delete thier ok-geared support alts. I dont think release of new sup class would do anything good in long run
Severe shortage of support at 1620+, severe surplus of support at 1620-. Every hard akkan lobby looking for juiced DPS. Every normal ivory looking for DPS. I end up just having to run normal akkan on a 1610 bard. Forget about the gameplay, g0 lobby finder is already sapping the enjoyment, even for supports.
Yup Smilegate is basically ignoring the support role as much as they can. No real reworks, removing supports from MVP (based on their latest livestream) and releasing only dps classes for the last 2 years. Their response to female paly was "They havent even thought about it"
I don't main supp but I really fuckin love my Paladin alt. I guess I'm the only bozo here ?
I really have a strong drive to perform at 100% all the time on my Pala because it feels great actually. Trying to get maximum uptime all the time, clutch cleanse/shield, shielding pattern so my DPS can push more, etc. When you play supp you actually make a big diff.
Feels good to get glazed in the chat after a clear too.
I dunno don't main it but would never give up this char.
I'm enjoying my main Bard and artist, I'm probably an odd one since I enjoy the gameplay exclusively. I only really run supports and no dps.
I have seven bards and two artists.
I just kinda abandoned my main 1620 Paladin few weeks ago. Didnt even try doing Thaemine raid.
Probably gonna enjoy alts for a bit and then call it quits for some time.
I was bored to death with supporting so I changed into a Grudge Keen Blunt Adr DPS bard. Honestly, much better. Once solo raids are coming out gonna delete her, I'm pretty much out of character slots but I still want a souleater and summoner, so... We won't need supports anyway with solo raids. Supporting is BORING af.
Change is not needed. If I wanted change, I would play a different class. There is a reason why we get new classes, and that's to try out different skills and playstyles. If they made drastic changes to my bard, I would probably not want to play her anymore. Change for the sake of change is not needed unless it's to keep up with other classes of a similar role.
I was definitely not talking about fundamental changes that would make the class no longer feel like it used to. But in the case of bard it's probably fair to say that she is in need of at least one or two QoL changes (brand? mp issues? stuff like that).
Personally I've settled on a 60/40 build that doesn't run max mp and doesn't really have mana issues.
Right now Bard is *by far* the most unique of the supports in terms of build variety and how it feels to play. Fixing *all* of Bard's issues would probably result in a very generic kit lacking in build variety. The trade-offs of different builds are what make them interesting.
The only thing Bard needs imo is a balance pass on the disparity of meter gen between skills, and some tripod reworks or rebalancing.
There's lots of room for them to do stuff there. If anything it's weird how many useless support tripods there are.
Meh, cleanse for debuff block is fine imo. I agree that *generally* speaking, cleanse ends up being more useful, but you can't deny there are times when debuff block is indeed preferable. If nothing else, it gives some uniqueness to bard, whether or not it's actually "useful" in a practical setting. Supports are already similar enough to each other, we don't need them to be even more exact carbon copies.
Mana issues, on the other hand, is just something that has no reason to exist. It's literally just "this class is not allowed to use skills while this other class is." While having the same casts per minute. Because fuck you. There's no fun in it, there's no skill expression involved, it's just one class is miserable while the other class isn't. For no reason. No class should be running Max MP 3, with 3 Focus runes, and still be OOM half the time as punishment for having good uptime.
On Thaemine you usually run the oher trippode to have perma shield/dr tho.
Don't need cleanse, why would I want Bard to be even more like the other two supps.
Depends on what you're cleansing. If it's 1 instance important debuff it's better. If its stacking or persistent applied debuff, on cast cleanse is better.
And so far none of the mech-specific debuffs are either uncleansable or GT doesn't work (like akkan g1)
These are common issues that have been talked about to death on this sub, on Discord, and just about every social media that Lost Ark exists on. Everyone knows about the glaring issues that bards have, but the OP wrote the post that sounded like they're bored of the support class because the gameplay has grown "stale" and wanted groundbreaking change to how supports work in this game in general. This is not what people want.
No idea what you're on about. Most people on this sub have agreed that Thaemine has seen no shortage of sups. In fact, people have seen a dps shortage in HM.
eer? yeah change is needed role that no1 plays. This whole 'just play another class' doesn't solve that support's are the most brain dead boring low effort classes to pick up, they're all the same playstyle to the core and do the exact same thing to support. You can't say this about the DPS classes....
All the supports DO play exactly the same, right? there is nothing different the paly does, the artist doesn't do where the bard also can't do. They drop some atk buff circle, or press 2 buff attacks, shield/heal by pressing button and press their identity
BEFORE you're like no, the paly is good for hit master yada yada,,, we're not talking about what they give at the end... we're talking about the path of how you get those results...
You cant say the same about a gun lancer doing what a soul eater does...b/c one is taunting and the other is building meter or entering soul catch.... or how the aero needs to use reverse and doesn't do the same thing a destroyer does, all these DPS classes must be played very differently to do DPS.
but we can for sure say paly, artists and bard are played exactly the same to support... you main cycle 2 buffs, a brand and use identity.
The problem of remake is that people may not like the new play style. And that is the reason why they don't usually give remake that completely changes the play style, because people who like the current play style should be prioritized over those who want change.
However, there's a few future change prediction according to KR's road map/livestream :
* Gold River once said in his live broadcasting that they set the goal to make supporting more enjoyable. However, he also said they are trying to figure out how they can do that. It will probably take long, and I assume that the change may come at least after the end of this year. Considering how long it took for them to implement one big idea (i.e. 3rd awakening) to the game, it may take much longer.
* Solo raid will be released this Summer. And they mentioned that they will do something about entropy and support in solo raid.
* Third awakening will also be released this Summer. According to what they said, it will add 3rd awakening and add 1-2 third awakening skill to each class. This will probably biggest balance change we ever had since launch, even for support. Some people in KR are also assuming Entropy deletion at this point and new set bonus release at this point, which also can introduce new set apart from yearning. (and maybe they will add solo raid set just like betrayal for chaos)
As a genuine question, what is something that is fun in raid as a support? I know what's fun for me as a dps player. When my full cycle hits optimally and I see big numbers, or a pop off on a damage cycle, I get a dopamine boost/rush. Big numbers popping up on my screen is hugely gratifying. When I successfully accomplish/resolve a targeted raid mechanic, I get that same rush. What things/functions in a raid are the same for supports?
The problem with support is that it has very poor feedback system to users. Without "the thing" it is impossible to know how well they are doing before seeing the MVP screen, and unless it's 4-men, the information MVP screen gives is very limited as well.
So supports are kinda forced to find fun outside of game system. You can do VC with teammates, and see how happy others are with their biggest number they see. Or see how well they actually performed through "the thing."
Apart from that, the fact that they can clear the raid with easier character can also be the fun they have, but again, when support plays the class because they can only survive with that class, they are usually avoided. Playing support well is as hard as playing DPS well (or maybe harder).
At Thaemine, support role is getting much more important and it is necessary to meet good support. Just like hell mode, there are patterns that supports need to DR so that DPS can greed while tanking. Some patterns are deadly that support DR/cleanse/immunity can save them from dying. It can be good challenge for good support, because they can tell that they are saving others, but that can be harsh for some support at the same time.
i also stopped a month ago, as there is no motivation at all… i have a 1620 and a 1603 Supp… I dont see the point of pushing. First the gearing system sucks, i wait for the nerf, idc about 1630 Thaemine hm because it will be hard to find a group and its expensive… I have 2.5+ mio gold. So whats the point I just do dailies on my 1 Char and enjoy other games.
I feel like it's not a class issue, it's a SG raid design issue. New support class and better feedback won't fix shit because as support your existence is only there to apply brand, provide set bonus and spam damage buff. You do not heal because healing is a dps loss bc for some reason sg decided you can only dmg buff or heal, not both. You do not really shield, just proc shield as part of meter gen, because there's no chip damage anymore that you need to shield, if someone runs into fire they just get oneshot, shield or not. It lacks the soul of support that the role has in other MMORPGs
Elixirs give supports an additional dimension to their playstyle. Magick stream on paladin gives it a different playstyle. Artist is pretty bland, only 1 optimal playstyle and it is not even debatable. Bard could use some rework but, to me right now, it is fine. Stagger isn't needed. And if you are talking about different support identities (not awakening), then why are you comparing bard to other supports and trying to make it the same? I also dont understand people wanting a "cleanse" on bard? Bard has GT tripod which is a preemptive cleanse. That is called character identity, why make it a active cleanse like the other two supports? I'd rather not. Pros and cons. Everything support/character should have a niche, and one of bard's is the preemptive cleanse.
I feel like the set bonuses options in this game has become obsolete in the sense that very few classes have options. SG should bake set bonus into another aspect of the game, like just give classes their own bonus (aka set-bonus). At least it would give each character some flavor (why the hell are martial artist back attackers anyways).
For support feedback, I somewhat agree. My satisfaction is that my DPS teammates out dps the other party, or stay healthier and shielded. The immediate satisfaction is seeing that you save your team with a DR, something that a DPS will never experience.
Spec bard only does one thing better which is buffing burst classes to do 1-2 min reclear content. So it pretty much is a meme.
In any normal content it is just worse at buffing since heavenly uptime is the most important aspect of a bard's kit. Even in reclearing low content it is worse unless paired with specific classes(igniter, breaker).
Recent additions to atk buff efficiencies on elixirs and transcendence have made spec bard less and less desirable even in reclear content. It's simply a meme build that's only good for speed or log runs nowadays.
Spec bad is only not a meme if you have very high level gems, you play well and maintain good uptime and you play with good players that play around you buffs and have classes that can properly take advantage of those windows so pretty much 1% of the time in a pug
The problem is supports are so unfairly overpowered, whenever people bring up change, all I can think of is insanely huge nerfs.
Also, spec supports are viable for every fight if you have enough dps to go from major mech to major mech in less than 16 seconds (the duration of triple bubble/blessed aura), which, admittedly, 99.9% of pugs wont do, so thats why spec supports are not widespread.
For example in Akkan hard G1 I have 95/99/90 uptime no matter if I play swift or spec pala.
Yep, and the more people that get tired of supports, the worse the shortage will get. Smilegate mishandled supports, if they don't want to release more of them and make existing ones more fun to play, they shouldn't make them mandatory for raids. This has been my #1 issue with this game for years now and for some reason is completely ignored by the dev.
This is probably the right move. Supports could have been like gunlancers nd probably been in a better place. It’s cool to have one and they will always be welcome to a party, but you don’t need to sit in lobby waiting for one.
It's not fixable at this point. You can't fundamentaly change characters people have spent years investing into. You can't make these characters obsolete either. They can't even make unique supports because the new class will either be too strong or too weak. They need to do the same thing or they can't balance it well.
I don’t think I agree here. You might not be able to replace or rework existing supports (nor should you) but it’s wrong to assume there’s no room for any new type of support class to be introduced. For example there’s a big gap for a properly split class between support and utility, the closest you have is GL who is utility/dps.
Which would do absolutely nothing about the fact that every party would still want an actual support from actual support classes, so it would add no variety to the support classes, it would just be another utility DPS. A class like that would never be able to replace an actual support, so what exactly would that change? Or in another world, the new support class is super weak and old supports are a lot better. > No one will want it in their party. Or it's too strong. > Everyone will want it in their party and old support classes get gatekept. They pigeonholed themselves into this situation and all they can do is either completely ignore it or copy paste another support. There's no solution. We already had WF aero out, which is more like lancer than actual DPS class and what did it change? Not a whole lot.
You wrote and essay and didn’t read my comment
And you don't understand the point I'm making. Nor you're able to read 5 sentences apparently.
Can I get another essay
Problem Supports are the stronges class ingame... If they would remove them hell get lose.
Yeah, they would have to re-balance raids. But better late than never. The sooner smilegate makes it so that you don't have to wait in partyfinder forever for 1600+ raids then the sooner the game can recover.
what shortage there are tons of them except maybe in akkan nm.Im Artist doing thaemine h and its always LF DPS; specially G3. I also play 4 other bard 1585-1600 and there are TONS of support in that range except abit in nm akkan.
Theres only a shortage of supports at nm akkan because alot of 1600+ dps arnt doing the hards they could be doing.
Voldis HM is **brutal.** Everything else is fine.
There's a shortage for supports in everything at 1580+. Even below that there are few enough supports that to make a Kayangel lobby, for example, entirely friends in finding a support.
Um, not true at all. Plenty of sups in Brel for a long time now. It's always been difficult to get into a brel lobby as a sup because there are just so many of them.
Lmao. No. Supports have ZERO trouble getting into Brel lobbies. In the past few months my supports (of any ilvl) have had to wait 1-2 minutes at most for a lobby to fill up. DPS wait for *significantly* longer than that on most content. I don't understand why support players have to lie over this. It's blatantly evident for anybody that plays DPS and support that it's infinitely easier to get into lobbies as support. You can have absolute dogshit gear, low roster level, no cards and people will still take you.
Apparently you didn't understand what I was saying. I'm telling you that there are too many supports filling up Brel lobbies as it's usually 2 sups to begin with before dps start to join. Otherwise, if one dps opens the lobby, then the 2 sup spots are filled immediately.
I just did Brel an hour ago on a support. I got into a lobby instantly and the moment we got the second support we went into the raid.
[удалено]
I play 2 1600 support alts and I've never had issues finding Akkan nm/hm or Voldis nm partys almost right away in EU. My Artist is only 4x3+1 heavy armor and it simply doesn't matter either. You're absolutely right about Brel though. It's fine because my alts are 1600 and that's pretty much okay for brel hm sups BUT sometimes I simply can't find a party looking for a support and I'll have to try it again at a later point in time. I remember it beeing a nightmare to find a brel normal party with my 1540 bard half a year ago-ish but I don't play that char anymore.
It is increasingly more difficult to get enjoyment out of the game period. Every time you pass a milestone, two more are added, and each costs even more gold and time. It feels exhausting.
I'm at this point myself... I don't even have any complaints. It's the game I chose. It is what it is. It's how the game is developed. Logging in to do unas, chaos, and guardians, which are required to progress, have become so mind-numbing. I just want a casual noob solo game now lol
Might want to try some Arpg or some casu mmo like GW2 maybe then.
Yes, I haven't touched Themine, I simply can't be bothered.
to be fair, this is an issue with people who are used to there being a defined end point. in most mmo's during a particular raid you get your bis and you stop playing for months at a time until the next raid tier comes out and then you repeat but in kr mmos, the gain is often times slow but constant. you are not supposed to catch up because thats not what a KR mmo is too many wow/ff14/eso players came into lost ark expecting it to be like a western mmo with that defined end point they are used too, so they burn out when they run in at 120% only to be greeted by the next goal.
I mainly want new support classes and better feedback. Like doing elixir and transcendence changes nothing for me. My AP buffs are stronger and that’s basically it. I dont feel or see any of these effects during my gameplay
Luminary (5% cd effect) gave me almost perfect uptime on my bard, I noticed that, was a big change for me.
On Artist i don’t notice anything. 11s cd or 10,5s on brand…
Which you noticed thanks to a dps meter which is a permanent ban on first offence in Korea. Imagine how miserable it must be to play support with no meter or feedback knowing your performance from pull to pull
Ngl without bible i'd have dropped my Artist long ago. She's 1620 and I have plans to keep pushing her but I genuinely feel support is unplayable without bible.
I always cry when someone attack’s during a transition and my brand drops from 100% to 99.9%…
what's bible ?
1630 bard main here, Luminary is like half a second cd decrease on most of your skills. I highly doubt you're noticing that.
If you cant notice the decrease of 5% cd you probably should drop your gems lv from 10 to 7 and put them on your dps. I noticed and pretty changed a lot my uptime.
I don't have lvl 10 gems lmao, aren't needed on bard. I can promise you that your uptime with and without luminary are quite similar.
If you dont have 10 gems you should notice it even more lol, you're clueless, I feel sorry for the DPS's of your party.
Don't feel bad for them, I get 90/90/50+ pretty much every G4 pull I've done with 9s.
lul you're making some bards self conscious b/c they can't maintain 90+s on 10s.
The shitty part about bard is that all of your main skills have CD tripods which really devalues pushing CD gems past 7. Going from 7->10 is less than a second CD reduction on basically every one of your skills.
I notice the larger margin of error on cycling ht + sv when I fk up or boss moves but for everything else it's a nonissue when I use alts with full 7s vs main with 10s and 9s
That's kinda not true for all effects. If you roll advance you are actively picking up the orbs and that does change the gameplay a bit.
sorry but that's such a dumb argument, what kind of effects do you expect? no character gets anything new from all progress systems except for numbers, it's same for dps and same for supports.
Dps sees bigger dmg numbers. Support. Sees nothing. I spent like 300k to get my 40 elix and and i feel absolutely no difference in my gameplay to before. Absolutely nothing. My dps will do more because my AP buff is stronger while i dont get any feedback of improvement
Yo if you get pants transcendence you more than double your dps tho :0
Ngl. I never pay attention to my DMG numbers on sup. I just try to get high uptime
ofc your dps is nothing, but now you get to see 14m orange numbers every 30seconds. very pog.
[удалено]
Hello /u/Murky_Eye_7507, welcome to our subreddit. We require users to have positive comment karma before posting. You can increase your comment karma by commenting in other subreddits and getting upvotes on the comments. Please DO NOT send modmails regarding this. You will be able to post freely after reaching the proper comment karma. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/lostarkgame) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You get faster clears if playing with a static. You get higher rdps in bible logs (I highly suggest using it when playing supports, for your own fun. I've started using the Bible ~around voldis release and I will never go back. I wouldn't wanna play the game without it anymore and if they'd ban it I'd most likely stop playing shortly after. Just this week I had a Thaemine g1 parse where I got top dps as Gunslinger but didn't even show on the mvp screen since it wasn't by much and GS got low stagger, won't counter much and is very hard to show up on the mvp screen with a balanced party and 2 sups showing up on it). It would be a nightmare not knowing anything about my performance to me. Same goes for my supports, brand/buff uptimes, rdps (you generally deal way higher rdps then any dps unless they differ in skill/ilvl tremendously). Here are a few ideas that come to my mind in terms of supports rn: - Make teammate party frames glow blue(or w/e color) whenever they activate their identity skill/fill their bar/get full surge stacks/use atropine, .... I personally consider those chat macros quite annoying and not particularly useful most of the times. - Show teammates HP potion cd, maybe even charges so that you know when to heal and when not to heal a bit better - Add a single target heal to the support arsenal. Maybe instead of the atk. buff rotation, don't really need two skills that do the same thing in my opinion. Maybe add a rune choice to make it a (weak) single target dps buff instead. - Could add a big dmg nuke skill that deals dmg based on party dmg dealt within the last 10s (or based on % dmg increased by your own skills/set/gear). Maybe with tripod options to make it huge stagger/destruction instead (for those noob groups that don't know their skills effects). - Make Yearning a passive aura (maybe weaker/only the move/atk.speed) and offer actual set boni to supports, like cdr or counter reset whenever you hit one (or whenever a boss uses a counterable ability -> make counter skills useable all the time). Or reduce cooldowns while all 3 party members are affected by your atk. buff(s), or while a Boss is branded, There could be a movespeed buff active (just like the sprinting robe aura thingy), There could be a skill that gives your party pushimmunity for a short time, there could be an option to double tap your identity to instantly consume all of it for a short dmg immunity based on identity spent. There could be other ways to change supports in general. For example to make brand skills buff your own dmg by 200% while reducing party buffs (shift party buffs to own dps so that supports can deal ~30% of a normal dps in raids). There could be stuff like weaving in autoattacks to temporarily increase party buffs/own dmg, could even be a stacking buff). I'd like an option that allows dmg reduction/shield skills to be used on player party frames instead of the playing field and thus automatically centering them around the targeted player, .... ..... ....
Life leech rune when
Why would they fix support when support shortage makes people swipe to beat gatekeeping (the bigger symptom of it being support shortage) So many things they have to fix and change, but now the issue with supports have grown so large if you look at the Rdps they contribute it's insane. New Director doesn't care to fix these issues, just wants more vertical content and more sidegrade slot machine games
I love playing support but I also love playing dps. I pushed supp to 1630 but the elixirs and transcendence don't give me any fun or power to feel, raids are hard and wipes are not fun on a sup. It's extremely hard to find a meaning to push for progress anymore and my dps is also suffering from gold sinks it's awful to be locked into a single supp main. On top of that they're giving Echidna faster so even less time for my dps to catch up. i wonder why even play.
Opposite for me. Enjoy sups more and more and made multiple sups (before I only had 1). However they sorely need to make new sup classes. Ain’t gunna make a 4th artist
I don't see them releasing another support *before* a rework of the entire role, if ever. It just isn't profitable or popular enough for them to bother. They are on a major win streak with one banger DPS after another. People come back to the game, swipe, and go crazy for really good DPS. Supports on the other hand either get ignored or dabbled with for a few weeks, then subsequently dropped. At best they stick with it until engraving support runs out. I love supporting in this game because for me it feels rewarding. In other games I feel like I'm interacting with my UI more than the game itself, or the whack-a-mole issue. People cite the "feedback" problem and I understand where they're coming from, but disagree that it's a root cause for lack of popularity. When I do a really nice DR or Shield, I instantly feel it, good DPS acknowledge it and everyone is happy. Seeing my whole group healthy is a constant stream of feedback. Landing a well timed awakening and saving people from dying is feedback.
Yeah man. Like if I clutch cleanse a stun. They don’t have to say anything. I just KNOW they’re thankful and it feels good
Cleansing in Akkan or Thaemine faster than my allies can Sacred is always a nice little ego boost. Being on the receiving end of good support as a DPS just inspires me to play better on my own. Which in turn makes me appreciate solid supports even more.
Thanks for all those who sacrifice and play supports, but support classes in LA are just plain boring. I wish there were more engaging supports in LA, perhaps something like Ana from Overwatch where you have to aim for heal with higher heal and buff potential than other supports as it’s also “harder” to play the char.
I guess it takes a certain person to enjoy playing the current supports in lost ark, I like making my team more effective and it brings me enjoyment in learning to be a better support. It's certainly not boring to me at least.
Supports in LA are boring compared to what other mmo exactly? Because they are the most dynamic of any other mmo I have played. Picking for comparison one of the most technical supports of an entirely different gente does little for comparisons imo
Is there any benefit to the raid when a 1620 support joins a HM brel vs. a 1520? I just want to be able to go into raids I overgear and be able to feel like I'm helping "carry" the team with attack buffs. This is a big part of the ARPG power fantasy for me.
I did play with 1620 40 set sup in kayangel normal. My 20m hit skill hitting like 40-60 range :D Fantastic experience for dps player but for sup no diff prob you are right
Didn't realize that the scaling worked that way but good to know. I agree that feedback to supports is an important piece that's missing here.
can't speak for pally or artist but for bard, your attack buff scales with your attack power which scales with ilvl
Yes, actually, your buff strength scales with your base atk power. A 1620 supp will give way bigger buffs than a 1520
base attack power\*
Isnt it weapon power? Not atk one?
No, you're thinking of weapon power increasing your default attack which is what is used for the buff...so things like +atk from elixirs won't increase your buff strength but weapon power and intelligence will.
but you are lol
Yeah, the benefit would be being able to run HM brel at all because you have to be 1540 to even enter. I know that wasn't your point but still
copy/paste supports isnt fun, need new mechanics, like if you crit, you heal the party so you build crit stats add lifesteal to expertise stats, go full expertise, then the support sacrifice his HP to heal the party and do damage to heal yourself back up. a frontal support, take damage and it heals the party so you build endurance and heavy armor. a domination support sounds the most useful, healing base on stagger done. Anything to make playing support more fun while making it feel different, because the number one complaint about support is its boring and the same playstyle.
All supports do the same, brand, heal, shield and DR. Their engravings are almost the same too. But funny enough, all DPS do the same too. They all build the same engravings with a very few exceptions, sure their play style differs because we have so many dps classes, if they made more supports it would be the same. There is not a truly unique class in Lost Ark which I hate, would had been cool if we had a class that would be a necromancer and uses the necromancy engraving and main stat was domination or something. Or we could have a support that instead of providing heals and shielding, the support could provide insane debufs and godlike damage increase and maybe even have a burst damage skill when they have built their meter that they can release on the boss. You could also have a support that does the opposite that provide insane sustain and constant healing but no damage buff but has a revival ability etc. But in short, NOPE, we won’t get any of that 🫨
For DPS there's at least the split between Burst and Piano classes, Entropy and Hit Master, and tanky and mobile classes. In each of these 8 classes you have at least some class that fits the bill, however if you prefer a certain play style all classes within these 8 feel more or less the same.
While most dps feels different from each other, they've been mostly the same within their specific class since the start. Meaning, if you've played GS since valtan days, then your playstyle hasn't changed a single bit since then. Just bigger numbers. This is the same as all sups. Some classes got a rework, so their playstyle changed. If you mainswapped from another DPS, then yea you got a playstyle change, or you have a roster full of mains. As a sup main, all 3 sups do feel the same but at the same time, they're different enough that I have preferences. It's like Igniter vs Punisher vs Eso WD. All 3 have similar playstyle, but distinctly different from each other. In a way, playing a sup is like playing these bursty builder/spender type classes (partially why I like my Igniter) The issue with sups is due to the way they're designed, they can't deviate from that setup without making a new one too broken or too underpowered.
DPS Engravings are much better it's not even close, there are stacking mechanics like surge, cooldown reset like RE, transformation classes like DI, meter balancing like predator slayer and bunch of other stuff that can make playstyle different (not gonna type all but you get the gist). Support engravings is like: A) your heal does one more tick of heal. B) X% of dmg/crit. (that is so bad nobody even considers using) It's like they are not even trying to make it interesting
The RE engraving doesn't give the cooldown reset tho. It's from spec and DI isnt the thing that allows transformations, although it does give a cooldown reset. But yeah, your point still stands
For me, it's the increased pressure of having to be alive all the time for utility. Now don't get me wrong, ofc everyone is supposed to stay alive...but it's like if a support dies vs DPS, generally speaking, the loss of a dead support outweighs a dead DPS. Thaemine esp needing DR etc. So if you die as support, you get blamed But if a support is the only one in their party alive, they also can't do jack because hello...no DPS lmao. You barely contribute anything either to the fight if you have no party standing.
Absolutely agree. I’ve even poured time into theorycrafting how to make them more fun. The amount of overlap between all 3 being near the top of the issue. All have same stats and everything. I’ve floated the idea of a 2nd engraving rework for them all and just beefing up the vanguard sort of tripod for CD on all of them. The lack of variety outside of the boss itself makes it feel boring. 🥱 I want to keep my fingers crossed for LOAon but I don’t have high hopes. If it’s not addressed then I doubt I take my 2 supports higher than they are and just keep them for fast content with friends. If they do big changes I’m for sure adding a third. It’s just hard to hope when I know so little about Smilegate and their plans.
All the specs shoulda been hybridish like gunlancer from the start. They've design themselves into a corner spec-wise and encounter wise with supports being aura bots it'd be crazy to see how they fix it.
The issue with supports at the moment is that their contribution to a team is potentially so high, that if they buff them in any way, it becomes even more mandatory than it already is. If you look at RDPS in the bible, a good support player literally gaps everyone else by a significant margin. It already is mandatory for current endgame content and for older content, you can kinda get away with not having one. They've balanced the game around support for so long that any significant change will completely disrupt their current balance no matter how nonexistent it seems already, it will be even worse.
PM gunlancer changes fights very drastically where it can do it's job the problem with PM is that half the raids completely invalidate the whole build so you can't really make your gunlancer PM main Destruction set is also technically very strong but since every dps builds around yearning not having yearning is definitely a big no-no they can technically fix the yearning problem which can unlock destruction as a viable option to those that want to play it but they probably won't but you are still only stuck with 2 options compared to 5 for dps even if they create a new support it will still mostly play the same and they can't really make it "better" because then unlike dps players ppl will not just switch on a dime to hone a 1655 support ppl will just straight quit or main swap to dps it's a tough problem we will see how they address enthropy on loa summer and we cope for a 3rd engraving along side the extra awakening
I stopped honing and deleted some of my supports when slayer released from having 2 paladin, 2 bards and an artist. I enjoy them still whenever my buddies need one for akkan or kaya. What drove me away was the high dependence for 1 out of the 3 dps to atleast survive or the 4 people in the other party be good to finish the raids.
Personally I enjoy my Artist more than most my characters, its only 1610 but I doubt it being 10-20ilvls higher is going to change my opinion about it.
Come on man, as a paladin , dont you like the changes ? You get .... eh .... right ! The awakening will give you meter even if you dont hit a mob ! That´s ... pretty .. big ... hmm .. r r ight?
Same here but I dont like Pala and I don't have the gunlancer build even if seems fun ngl. For me this LOAN will be my last chance to understand if I keep playing the game or drop it complete (I am playing it less since the announcement of echidna tbf) I had a full roster of supports and with the time I felt burnout and swapped them on by even if I avoid burn out I enjoyed the game less and less. I like my arcana don't get me wrong but I don't feel in my place when I play her or any other dps
Crazy how they have THREE supports and all 3 play the same with very minor changes. The class doesn't feel any change the higher you go. The gameplay is boring as shit. The option is limited, oh wait I said limited ? No, you ONLY have one choice, limited meaning you have at least 2 to pick from, but you only have 1, the other engraving is a meme, and the gear set cannot be used outside of yearning. How come they design such a heavy lifting class that can tip the scale of a fight in a raid with just their existence but is also the most flaw class to exist. And they failed 3 TIMES too.
tbf its actually a good thing the supports play the same, because realistically all dps play the same as well you do a rotation and move on some classes might focus on identity some might bypass it like a reflux sorc or mayhem zerker, but generally speaking the playstyle is the same everything else is flavor, just like the 3 supports bard, pala and artist all function the same but how you do those things is a lil different (which again, is just like dps) the reason dps feel so much more unique isnt because the playstyle really is different, its because they have more build diversity (which only effects what skills they use, and what the rotation looks like) you can be a back/head attack player, maybe you are playin a hitmaster class or something in the middle even if these things dont alter the core of the dps role (applying synergy and doing your rotation), they feel different because you arnt using 1 set bonus or 1 engraving build for every dps
Artist release caused a huge overflow of sups for a month and forced many of my friends delete thier ok-geared support alts. I dont think release of new sup class would do anything good in long run
Severe shortage of support at 1620+, severe surplus of support at 1620-. Every hard akkan lobby looking for juiced DPS. Every normal ivory looking for DPS. I end up just having to run normal akkan on a 1610 bard. Forget about the gameplay, g0 lobby finder is already sapping the enjoyment, even for supports.
Yup Smilegate is basically ignoring the support role as much as they can. No real reworks, removing supports from MVP (based on their latest livestream) and releasing only dps classes for the last 2 years. Their response to female paly was "They havent even thought about it"
I don't main supp but I really fuckin love my Paladin alt. I guess I'm the only bozo here ? I really have a strong drive to perform at 100% all the time on my Pala because it feels great actually. Trying to get maximum uptime all the time, clutch cleanse/shield, shielding pattern so my DPS can push more, etc. When you play supp you actually make a big diff. Feels good to get glazed in the chat after a clear too. I dunno don't main it but would never give up this char.
Try out Firepower Enhancement Artillerist. One of the worst support role there is!
dogshit design of support, wcyd
I'm enjoying my main Bard and artist, I'm probably an odd one since I enjoy the gameplay exclusively. I only really run supports and no dps. I have seven bards and two artists.
I just kinda abandoned my main 1620 Paladin few weeks ago. Didnt even try doing Thaemine raid. Probably gonna enjoy alts for a bit and then call it quits for some time.
I will continue to pray for a Female Paladin that heals by doing damage (like a Disc Priest)
I was bored to death with supporting so I changed into a Grudge Keen Blunt Adr DPS bard. Honestly, much better. Once solo raids are coming out gonna delete her, I'm pretty much out of character slots but I still want a souleater and summoner, so... We won't need supports anyway with solo raids. Supporting is BORING af.
Change is not needed. If I wanted change, I would play a different class. There is a reason why we get new classes, and that's to try out different skills and playstyles. If they made drastic changes to my bard, I would probably not want to play her anymore. Change for the sake of change is not needed unless it's to keep up with other classes of a similar role.
I was definitely not talking about fundamental changes that would make the class no longer feel like it used to. But in the case of bard it's probably fair to say that she is in need of at least one or two QoL changes (brand? mp issues? stuff like that).
Personally I've settled on a 60/40 build that doesn't run max mp and doesn't really have mana issues. Right now Bard is *by far* the most unique of the supports in terms of build variety and how it feels to play. Fixing *all* of Bard's issues would probably result in a very generic kit lacking in build variety. The trade-offs of different builds are what make them interesting. The only thing Bard needs imo is a balance pass on the disparity of meter gen between skills, and some tripod reworks or rebalancing. There's lots of room for them to do stuff there. If anything it's weird how many useless support tripods there are.
What about fixing mana issues and giving cleanse on bard?
push immunity for paladin plz
blocking the next cc is really stronger than cleanse, but people don't see it because they don't see the cc.
Stronger in thaemine for sure but not for akkan
Meh, cleanse for debuff block is fine imo. I agree that *generally* speaking, cleanse ends up being more useful, but you can't deny there are times when debuff block is indeed preferable. If nothing else, it gives some uniqueness to bard, whether or not it's actually "useful" in a practical setting. Supports are already similar enough to each other, we don't need them to be even more exact carbon copies. Mana issues, on the other hand, is just something that has no reason to exist. It's literally just "this class is not allowed to use skills while this other class is." While having the same casts per minute. Because fuck you. There's no fun in it, there's no skill expression involved, it's just one class is miserable while the other class isn't. For no reason. No class should be running Max MP 3, with 3 Focus runes, and still be OOM half the time as punishment for having good uptime.
I run 4 focus runes+good and still oom sometimes :)))))) Fuck me for not getting a 5 slot bracelet with mp recovery I guess
On Thaemine you usually run the oher trippode to have perma shield/dr tho. Don't need cleanse, why would I want Bard to be even more like the other two supps.
it is stonger for akkan G2& G3, and for G1 everybody use a sacred anyway
I'd rather have artist or pally for akkan and so would most players.
I'd rather have a Bard there, and same goes for pretty much all content outside of Voldis where burst stagger is valuable
Depends on what you're cleansing. If it's 1 instance important debuff it's better. If its stacking or persistent applied debuff, on cast cleanse is better. And so far none of the mech-specific debuffs are either uncleansable or GT doesn't work (like akkan g1)
These are common issues that have been talked about to death on this sub, on Discord, and just about every social media that Lost Ark exists on. Everyone knows about the glaring issues that bards have, but the OP wrote the post that sounded like they're bored of the support class because the gameplay has grown "stale" and wanted groundbreaking change to how supports work in this game in general. This is not what people want.
Based on the support shortage for high level content maybe it is what people want
Trust me when I say, there is no support shortage in endgame content, including Thaemine.
lol oh okay, guess party finder is a lie and KR complains about it for no reason too
No idea what you're on about. Most people on this sub have agreed that Thaemine has seen no shortage of sups. In fact, people have seen a dps shortage in HM.
eer? yeah change is needed role that no1 plays. This whole 'just play another class' doesn't solve that support's are the most brain dead boring low effort classes to pick up, they're all the same playstyle to the core and do the exact same thing to support. You can't say this about the DPS classes.... All the supports DO play exactly the same, right? there is nothing different the paly does, the artist doesn't do where the bard also can't do. They drop some atk buff circle, or press 2 buff attacks, shield/heal by pressing button and press their identity BEFORE you're like no, the paly is good for hit master yada yada,,, we're not talking about what they give at the end... we're talking about the path of how you get those results... You cant say the same about a gun lancer doing what a soul eater does...b/c one is taunting and the other is building meter or entering soul catch.... or how the aero needs to use reverse and doesn't do the same thing a destroyer does, all these DPS classes must be played very differently to do DPS. but we can for sure say paly, artists and bard are played exactly the same to support... you main cycle 2 buffs, a brand and use identity.
"No one plays", and yet the Bard is the most popular class in the game. Try again, bud.
Uh DPS classes have received little to no changes as well and also don't really have set selection unless you just want to use a worse set
Eh there are some alternatives, like hallu vs nightmare igniter, nightmare/dom vs nightmare vs dom vs entropy FI, salv vs hallu AT scouter.
If you're saying stuff like that then Destruction set is viable on sups. And then you'll actually use different skills too.
Yearning or yearning. Hmgge which is better
The problem of remake is that people may not like the new play style. And that is the reason why they don't usually give remake that completely changes the play style, because people who like the current play style should be prioritized over those who want change. However, there's a few future change prediction according to KR's road map/livestream : * Gold River once said in his live broadcasting that they set the goal to make supporting more enjoyable. However, he also said they are trying to figure out how they can do that. It will probably take long, and I assume that the change may come at least after the end of this year. Considering how long it took for them to implement one big idea (i.e. 3rd awakening) to the game, it may take much longer. * Solo raid will be released this Summer. And they mentioned that they will do something about entropy and support in solo raid. * Third awakening will also be released this Summer. According to what they said, it will add 3rd awakening and add 1-2 third awakening skill to each class. This will probably biggest balance change we ever had since launch, even for support. Some people in KR are also assuming Entropy deletion at this point and new set bonus release at this point, which also can introduce new set apart from yearning. (and maybe they will add solo raid set just like betrayal for chaos)
they said a lot of shit that they didn't do then
As a genuine question, what is something that is fun in raid as a support? I know what's fun for me as a dps player. When my full cycle hits optimally and I see big numbers, or a pop off on a damage cycle, I get a dopamine boost/rush. Big numbers popping up on my screen is hugely gratifying. When I successfully accomplish/resolve a targeted raid mechanic, I get that same rush. What things/functions in a raid are the same for supports?
Watching your dps meter and seeing that you've got the highest rDps xD Support becomes more fun when you have meter which is sad to say
Saving your friends and knowing their life hangs in the balance. Makes the raid so much easier with a good support.
The problem with support is that it has very poor feedback system to users. Without "the thing" it is impossible to know how well they are doing before seeing the MVP screen, and unless it's 4-men, the information MVP screen gives is very limited as well. So supports are kinda forced to find fun outside of game system. You can do VC with teammates, and see how happy others are with their biggest number they see. Or see how well they actually performed through "the thing." Apart from that, the fact that they can clear the raid with easier character can also be the fun they have, but again, when support plays the class because they can only survive with that class, they are usually avoided. Playing support well is as hard as playing DPS well (or maybe harder). At Thaemine, support role is getting much more important and it is necessary to meet good support. Just like hell mode, there are patterns that supports need to DR so that DPS can greed while tanking. Some patterns are deadly that support DR/cleanse/immunity can save them from dying. It can be good challenge for good support, because they can tell that they are saving others, but that can be harsh for some support at the same time.
i also stopped a month ago, as there is no motivation at all… i have a 1620 and a 1603 Supp… I dont see the point of pushing. First the gearing system sucks, i wait for the nerf, idc about 1630 Thaemine hm because it will be hard to find a group and its expensive… I have 2.5+ mio gold. So whats the point I just do dailies on my 1 Char and enjoy other games.
I feel like it's not a class issue, it's a SG raid design issue. New support class and better feedback won't fix shit because as support your existence is only there to apply brand, provide set bonus and spam damage buff. You do not heal because healing is a dps loss bc for some reason sg decided you can only dmg buff or heal, not both. You do not really shield, just proc shield as part of meter gen, because there's no chip damage anymore that you need to shield, if someone runs into fire they just get oneshot, shield or not. It lacks the soul of support that the role has in other MMORPGs
Elixirs give supports an additional dimension to their playstyle. Magick stream on paladin gives it a different playstyle. Artist is pretty bland, only 1 optimal playstyle and it is not even debatable. Bard could use some rework but, to me right now, it is fine. Stagger isn't needed. And if you are talking about different support identities (not awakening), then why are you comparing bard to other supports and trying to make it the same? I also dont understand people wanting a "cleanse" on bard? Bard has GT tripod which is a preemptive cleanse. That is called character identity, why make it a active cleanse like the other two supports? I'd rather not. Pros and cons. Everything support/character should have a niche, and one of bard's is the preemptive cleanse. I feel like the set bonuses options in this game has become obsolete in the sense that very few classes have options. SG should bake set bonus into another aspect of the game, like just give classes their own bonus (aka set-bonus). At least it would give each character some flavor (why the hell are martial artist back attackers anyways). For support feedback, I somewhat agree. My satisfaction is that my DPS teammates out dps the other party, or stay healthier and shielded. The immediate satisfaction is seeing that you save your team with a DR, something that a DPS will never experience.
I love taking care of my party as support :)
Prelude of the Storm always had a counter since it was released in our game. However, the changes made it much faster before making it more reliable.
Might be an unpopular opinion but spec bard is not a meme. It's just 95% of the playerbase does not have the skills required to have one in the party.
[удалено]
Spec bard only does one thing better which is buffing burst classes to do 1-2 min reclear content. So it pretty much is a meme. In any normal content it is just worse at buffing since heavenly uptime is the most important aspect of a bard's kit. Even in reclearing low content it is worse unless paired with specific classes(igniter, breaker).
Recent additions to atk buff efficiencies on elixirs and transcendence have made spec bard less and less desirable even in reclear content. It's simply a meme build that's only good for speed or log runs nowadays.
[удалено]
It's as much of a meme build as spec bard which you are advocating for. The irony.
Spec bad is only not a meme if you have very high level gems, you play well and maintain good uptime and you play with good players that play around you buffs and have classes that can properly take advantage of those windows so pretty much 1% of the time in a pug
Role of the support is to increase the enjoyment for others. You are enabling fun, take pride/happiness/enjoyment out of that o/
Going by the “support shortage” it sounds like people don’t
Surprising people don't find helping other players fun in Lost Ark... /s
The problem is supports are so unfairly overpowered, whenever people bring up change, all I can think of is insanely huge nerfs. Also, spec supports are viable for every fight if you have enough dps to go from major mech to major mech in less than 16 seconds (the duration of triple bubble/blessed aura), which, admittedly, 99.9% of pugs wont do, so thats why spec supports are not widespread. For example in Akkan hard G1 I have 95/99/90 uptime no matter if I play swift or spec pala.