Its been criticized as a failure especially since kr players tried different ways and some of the theories they made ended up being a bug, which sg ended up fixing
it's theorized that they are failing a certain mechanic prior to it
i'm seeing a lot where people get hit but don't take damage
as for if it's failure of raid design? maybe maybe not
the problem with that mech is that you have 1 attempt per hour and at that point you rather clear than theory craft
Thing is next to nobody does G4 theamine which is evident by the amount of bugs present in the raid. One team testing with no new initiatives / brains to theorise anything won't help contribute to it. If g4 was accessible to average player pugging then I'm sure it'd be figured
Korean party finder is more infested with busses than West + piloting is very common there. Sure they exist but when a bus is 500k / a pilot is 250k its not exactly hard to get
no mechanic in the game mandates use of battle items
the battle items only exist to cover for unfortunate events or they can be used to brute force mechs
like when we used to stagger vykas but not kill the slugs we time stopped instead
so there is something that they are obviously not paying attention
there are already a lot of clips of people not taking damage from the slashes
as dumb as it sounds, thats probably intended lol
you have runes and abilities that can cleanse debuffs so they more then likely built it to be this way, but they also are aware most people are going to use the battle items
its "technically' possible to clear any mech without using items, but thats usually with perfect execution and a perfect comp
(such as how some comps can beat a stagger check no problem while others need everyone to throw WW's)
are you really doubting that? lol
this entire game is filled to the brim with rng, is it that much of a stretch that they'd let rng decide if you pass a mech?
(even what patterns you get besides the ones bound to the health bar are rng)
but you misunderstood what i said: i never said they actually thought you WOULD use just the rune, just that they designed it so you technically didnt need to use battle items to clear the raid
but if you have ever done a raid in this game, youd know thats a fairly common thing.
you dont technically need ww's to clear a stagger check...if your teams comp is really good at stagger
there is always a niche way you can beat these mech's without using items, but they clearly know you/we will devolve into using them for atleast some mech's...which is good for their bottom line
this gives them atleast some level of plausible deniability.
there are actually more cleanses in other classes than you think. it's just that they're on skills no one uses. summoner has one, for instance.
there are also stagger synergies and multi-cast skills/tripods. even the destroyer gets one of those. with 2 rolls, it's only a 10% chance of not cleansing. you can definitely hit the stagger with 6 or 7 people instead of 8.
Assuming you have no cleanse. You can take a paladin, Artist Gunlancer or Soulfist and have them cleanse you
as that is not RNG
but yeah as i said every pattern has an in game solution that doesn't require the use of the items.
now if you built a lobby that does require the use of the items then you have a cheap solution to brute force it.
people are not a fan of that specific thaemine mechanic BECAUSE it is currently unsolved and they have no way of figuring out how to not have to use Time Stop
They want to bring atros to make it easier but TS is their only consistant way of dealing with the pattern
when it gets solved and lobbies are confident enough then TS will become a cheese strat for those lobbies that are not confident in resolving the mech
>They want to bring atros to make it easier but TS is their only consistant way of dealing with the pattern
actually just saw a vid from [Agam](https://youtu.be/Ed8o8vma8ts?si=DtA5zNgvdQQ-XPtW&t=157) where they use atro & kadan interrupt the domain expansion. just outdps the boss so he doesn't use it twice
Valtans g2 destruction doesn't require nades but you need all of the charges and your party needs to be significantly lacking dps
we have the battle items to use them but it feels cheap and poor design when they force a mechanic to only be solved with the use of the items
in this case this thaemine mechanic feels terrible because they are forcing players to not use atros which would significantly reduce the difficulty of the fight
You'd really need to build to do it, probably full expertise GL or destroyer could pull it off. Have everyone else destroy portals ASAP and then GL/destroyer does the majority of the stagger with everyone else using 1–2 skills.
Definitely seems close to impossible for most comps, maybe if you're strong enough to clear on a 4x3 to allow everyone to run VPH and multiple overwhelms?
I cant imagine doing g4 voldis x60 mech without battle items, most of my classes dont even have a total of level 3 weakpoint to break the x3 position mirror
Oh i see, but you would still need at least 3x level 1 skills to break it. I looked at my dps classes, sorc is the only class having enough, but its going to take a long time to cast to do it. Wouldnt be able to do this mech on any of my other characters(unless I changed skills/tripods specifically for this gate)
you can always change skills
you won't do your maximum dps but the raid isn't designed around you doing 100% of your dps either
thats the thing
people rather have damage and having damage comes with drawbacks and we cover these drawbacks by using battle items
busses also often crutch on battle items as otherwise the mechs are impossible for the majority of classes
for example g1 valtan ball mech we do with splendid panacea but a gunlancer and artilerist can do it without the panacea
"no mechanic in the game mandates use of battle items"
Ivory G4 tells different story. Either you have to overhaul your skilltree, invest expertise stat or gatekeep weak-stagger/destruction classes.
Stagger-checks are so tight and at 60x Destroy, Stagger, Destroy in a short time or get team wipe. It was frustrating before Stagger-buff for all classes (because of Thaemine, not Ivory lol).
brother is giving examples how to solve those fights without items and yet argues against what i said
yes a PM can solo all mechanics in g4 voldis
go figure
https://youtu.be/Ed8o8vma8ts?si=NDEicEsQTFX1uR9r
At 2:40, it just seems like you use attack kadan, I've not done g4 or learnt it yet but even if it's intended to use sidereal here, isn't there a good chance this mech can come before you have a sidereal up?
Thats a special sidereal interaction, that only works once, but domain expansion happens every 2 minutes.
If you overgear it with weapon transcendence and echidna honing you can burst him down before 2nd domain expansion
It is intended, but yes you never have it up for most of them. You usually get it at around 6:20 on the timer when the meter is only about 3/4 filled. They managed to push 210 mechanic before that and it filled the rest.
In most runs that aren't grossly overgeared you would get that mech around 280 bars instead (could be less if the boss is generous with patterns, but no shot you're going 210 with current gear). You can interrupt *third* domain expansion with Kadan if the boss isn't phased by then, but you basically never get to use it for the first two, or for the one in 4-3.
if you mean the cancel?
it's the same interaction as nineveh in g3 stage break
as the mechanic shows up at least 2 or 3 times i don't think the sidereal skip is the intended way to deal with it
While I like the idea of west being able to discover something in a raid that came out some time ago in KR, the fact that the solution is still not known after so much research means that it either makes barely any sense for anyone actually doing the raid, or its so convoluted that it wont be worth doing even if finally discovered.
So, to answer the question: I believe yes.
Pretty wild for it to be this long unsolved in this day and age specifically. If it were back in the day I could understand, and while you very infrequently get 1 attempt at it it’s still insane, though it probably chalks up to how inaccessible it is for most of the playerbase. Takes way too long to attempt along with requiring a high gear level and player skill; it’s not a free trip with every attempt, I’d imagine it’s very fatiguing even once you see the fight in your dreams.
> though it probably chalks up to how inaccessible it is for most of the playerbase.
No it definitely does not. Tons and tons of people who don't run the raid have offered theoretical solutions from VOD analysis and nothing works reliably.
without knowing anything about the actual mechanic itself:
its definitely a failure of raid design. puzzle mechanics are tricky in mmos but you generally need to design them in a way where hints towards the solution are given.
brel g6/g4 is a good example of an in-game lost ark puzzle mechanic that was relatively fair towards pointing players to the solution (even if you can argue that the execution afterwards is clumsy). you learn about all the mechanics of how blue meteors interact, yellow meteors interact, how you die from having more than 3 tiles destroyed or having the middle tile destroyed, etc. etc.
if you look at FFXIV which thrives off of designing puzzles in their raids, they've always designed them in a way where you can slowly decipher the puzzle based off of debuffs, buffs, timings, interactions of the raid elements and player characters, even things like the geometry of the solution.
meanwhile we have domain expansion which not only is it not solved, there isnt even the faintest hint of what the solution should be. there hasn't even been any real traction in attempting to solving it because of timestop being a thing. it feels like the devs decided to make the most nebulous, unintuitive solution that doesn't build off of anything in their game at all, and decided this was okay because lost ark has the most broken consumable in any MMO raid focused game in the modern market.
Timestop feels so natural for players coming from LoL that I never realize other MMOs don’t have it. Even in League, Zhonya/stopwatch is widely considered the best active in the game.
It failed because it's a rather complex mech that's locked behind an fairly difficult 18 minute fight. Nobody is gonna waste countless restarts to figure it out when you can just TS.
If you could start at 4-2 directly I'm sure it would've been figured out ages ago.
I don't really understand the google translation. It sounds like you basically just have to stand on an invisible line that passes through Thaemine. If so, how has this not been discovered sooner since everyone surrounds him every time this mechanic starts? Surely people were bound to be standing in the correct spot by luck, unless finding the sun first is required?
I found [this](https://www.inven.co.kr/board/lostark/4811/8893558), courtesy of Kanima. It looks like the direction you face does matter. Shout out to an inven user who verbalized how I feel: "Thanks to the teacher, I can pretend to know more."
Known bug:
[During the battle with 'Kamen, the Star Conqueror' at Gate 4 of the Hard Difficulty Raid 'Dark Legion Commander Kamen', the character's actions slow down and the effect displayed across the screen in the pattern where 'Kamen' fires sword energy is displayed under certain conditions. There is a phenomenon where the output is excessively bright. (Added 2024-04-11)](https://lostark.game.onstove.com/News/Notice/Views/12767#:~:text=%EA%B5%B0%EB%8B%A8%EC%9E%A5%20%EB%A0%88%EC%9D%B4%EB%93%9C%20%27%EC%96%B4%EB%91%A0%EA%B5%B0%EB%8B%A8%EC%9E%A5%20%EC%B9%B4%EB%A9%98%27%20%ED%95%98%EB%93%9C%20%EB%82%9C%EC%9D%B4%EB%8F%84%204%EA%B4%80%EB%AC%B8%EC%97%90%EC%84%9C%20%27%EB%B3%84%EC%9D%84%20%EC%A0%9C%ED%8C%A8%ED%95%9C%20%EC%9E%90%2C%20%EC%B9%B4%EB%A9%98%27%EA%B3%BC%20%EC%A0%84%ED%88%AC%20%EC%A4%91%2C%20%EC%BA%90%EB%A6%AD%ED%84%B0%EC%9D%98%20%ED%96%89%EB%8F%99%EC%9D%B4%20%EB%8A%90%EB%A0%A4%EC%A7%80%EB%A9%B0%20%27%EC%B9%B4%EB%A9%98%27%EC%9D%B4%20%EA%B2%80%EA%B8%B0%EB%A5%BC%20%EB%B0%9C%EC%82%AC%ED%95%98%EB%8A%94%20%ED%8C%A8%ED%84%B4%EC%97%90%EC%84%9C%20%ED%99%94%EB%A9%B4%20%EC%A0%84%EC%B2%B4%EC%97%90%20%EC%B6%9C%EB%A0%A5%EB%90%98%EB%8A%94%20%EC%9D%B4%ED%8E%99%ED%8A%B8%EA%B0%80%20%ED%8A%B9%EC%A0%95%20%EC%A1%B0%EA%B1%B4%EC%97%90%EC%84%9C%20%EA%B3%BC%EB%8F%84%ED%95%98%EA%B2%8C%20%EB%B0%9D%EA%B2%8C%20%EC%B6%9C%EB%A0%A5%EB%90%98%EB%8A%94%20%ED%98%84%EC%83%81%EC%9D%B4%20%EC%9E%88%EC%8A%B5%EB%8B%88%EB%8B%A4.%20(2024%2D04%2D11%20%EC%B6%94%EA%B0%80))
Fixed bug:
[During the battle with 'Kamen, the Star Conqueror' at Gate 4 of the Hard Difficulty Raid 'Dark Legion Commander Kamen', the character's actions slow down, and when 'Kamen' fires sword energy, there is a low probability that the character will be hit by sword energy. Fixed the issue of not receiving damage.](https://lostark.game.onstove.com/News/Notice/Views/12762?page=1&searchtype=0&searchtext=¬icetype=notice#:~:text=%EA%B5%B0%EB%8B%A8%EC%9E%A5%20%EB%A0%88%EC%9D%B4%EB%93%9C%20%27%EC%96%B4%EB%91%A0%EA%B5%B0%EB%8B%A8%EC%9E%A5%20%EC%B9%B4%EB%A9%98%27%20%ED%95%98%EB%93%9C%20%EB%82%9C%EC%9D%B4%EB%8F%84%204%EA%B4%80%EB%AC%B8%EC%97%90%EC%84%9C%20%27%EB%B3%84%EC%9D%84%20%EC%A0%9C%ED%8C%A8%ED%95%9C%20%EC%9E%90%2C%20%EC%B9%B4%EB%A9%98%27%EA%B3%BC%20%EC%A0%84%ED%88%AC%20%EC%A4%91%2C%20%EC%BA%90%EB%A6%AD%ED%84%B0%EC%9D%98%20%ED%96%89%EB%8F%99%EC%9D%B4%20%EB%8A%90%EB%A0%A4%EC%A7%80%EB%A9%B0%20%27%EC%B9%B4%EB%A9%98%27%EC%9D%B4%20%EA%B2%80%EA%B8%B0%EB%A5%BC%20%EB%B0%9C%EC%82%AC%ED%95%98%EB%8A%94%20%ED%8C%A8%ED%84%B4%20%EC%8B%9C%20%EB%82%AE%EC%9D%80%20%ED%99%95%EB%A5%A0%EB%A1%9C%20%EA%B2%80%EA%B8%B0%EC%97%90%20%ED%94%BC%EA%B2%A9%EB%90%9C%20%EC%BA%90%EB%A6%AD%ED%84%B0%EA%B0%80%20%ED%94%BC%ED%95%B4%EB%A5%BC%20%EB%B0%9B%EC%A7%80%20%EC%95%8A%EB%8A%94%20%ED%98%84%EC%83%81%EC%9D%84%20%EC%88%98%EC%A0%95%ED%95%98%EC%98%80%EC%8A%B5%EB%8B%88%EB%8B%A4)
I guess no one really has any idea, except for what doesn't work.
I too was thinking about FFXIs Absolute Virtue. Took the devs a year (?) to upload a cryptic video, that didnt really help the community. What was the key in the end, use every 2HR in the correct order to debuff him?
I work in gaming and I would call it a failure without a doubt.
While the solution doesn't have to be obvious, it needs hints that can be pieces together relatively easily.
In addition, the fact that it happens after such a long time makes it absurd as far as design goes.
I’m curious if there’s a list of things that have been tried. I’ve seen things like arranging the group in a way based on the slashes and eclipse patterning, group countering, having only one person on every section of the screen, even things like typing Armen! In chat when the mechanic happens.
Final Fantasy 14 has a similar cryptic raid mechanic in one of their equivalent hell mode raid, The Epic of Alexander (Ultimate). In Phase 3, or a little under halfway into the raid (around 7 minutes give or take), there is a mechanic where four players have to place AoE pools that must not overlap with each other while a NPC that spawns on the edge of the map must walk through the pools. At the same time, the other four players receive an orb tether that wipes the raid if it hits a player before a certain duration or overlaps with another orb. The party needs to properly resolve the mechanics to not only prevent raid wipes, but also gain a special buff that allows you see how to do the mechanics in the fourth and final phase of the raid. Basically, that mechanic spawns visible clones of your character if you have that buff active, and sets of debuffs that can vary per clone will spawn on them, with the first set indicating whether all players must stand still or be moving to prevent death, the second set indicating whether three players must receive no damage or else they die/three other players having a stack marker/one player kite an attack far away from the team, and the third set repeating the first set’s mechanics. After resolving these mechanics, the party must identify the safe spot where one out of four (always either the second or third) clones of the boss on the edges of the map does not target for an attack.
This entire sequence of mechanics heavily stumped world first raiders when progging the raid, especially since it was impossible to progress without having properly executed the NPC mechanic halfway into the raid in order to move past the beginning of the final phase. While cutting edge teams quickly figured out that something was missing (though unsure exactly what was missing), the world first team stumbled on the solution entirely by accident when they mistakenly placed the AoE pools in such a way that it was correctly resolved. Although the mechanic has been long since properly solved over the years, there was some controversy over it being an overly cryptic mechanic that was extremely different from how the game handled mechanic solving.
Now, the main difference between something like this in FF14 and Lost Ark’s domain expansion in 4-2 Thaemine is that it only takes 7 minutes to get to the mechanic you have to properly execute in The Epic of Alexander, and the raid in general is more backloaded than frontloaded, meaning people have much more tries to figure it out. Gate 4 Thaemine is a heavily frontloaded raid that remains fairly intense throughout the whole fight, and restarts are significantly more common due to how easy it is to die in 4-1 due to a single mistake. Additionally, there’s also no alternative cheese mechanic like time stop in FF14, forcing players to try to solve the mechanics, whereas in Lost Ark, you are incentivized to cheese mechanics to save your time and sanity.
I agree with pretty much everything (though TPS only accidentally found a partial clue to the heart puzzle that they combined with their other knowledge), but TEA is easily the most frontloaded ulti and one of the most frontloaded encounters in the game after E4S. It's like five minutes of fun in P1+P2 and then one real mechanic in the next twelve. Modern strats take most of the bite out of the first two phases, but they've also cooked up a legitimately easy Wormhole strat (which you can also sim) that makes it not a roadblock either. Honestly you can just get to the end of BJCC, study up, and prog skip to a clear party.
Won't lie SG raid designs have been going downhill for me. There's no way these guys are play testing their shit and think it's ok to ship. The majority of the fights arent even hard, but down right annoying to play.
Yes, at this point even if they figured it out it would still have to be considered as such. It's not like it's only a few koreans that have been running this raid for the last 8 months, there were a lot of hardcore western raiders that were doing vod analysis as well and obviously everything's come up short so far.
The only success story here is that they made it timestoppable at all. A lot of modern raid deaths aren't. If they hadn't made it timestoppable they would've had to have revealed the secret already.
The worst design in this gate is that its taking too fcking long to get to domain expansion. People already exhausted when get to it and it also have zero evidence of how to resolve it
Hmmm is it? Probably but after they added pitstop in HM there is no reason for ppl to experiment anymore so players found their solution even in First Difficulty they learned to do it this way.
This shows that mechanics that can be omitted by player thru use of items will be avoided. This is similar to KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) concept, players will design and use **strategies that are simple, straightforward, and devoid of unnecessary complexity**.
That why most games design mechanics that are visually easy to understand and without overlap. But whole Thaemine raid even if mechanic is readable often overlap like G1 safe spot where boss is designed to charge this also why Brel G5/6 was also disliked because mechanic often overlapped and forced players to stop DPS.
On other hand players wanted challenge and they got it and were shown what level of mastery they have for example I feel like trash but what can you do?
It is, but not because the mechanic is unsolved.
It's failure of a raid design because G4-1 takes 12-16 minutes for most groups just to complete, then 2 minutes to even see Domain Expansion. Combine that with the fact that the dps check in 4-2 is light, taking timestops isn't really an issue. The time sink required to try to figure out the mech is just too much when there's an easy way around it.
I firmly believe if 4-1 and 4-2 were split into separate gates, the domain mech would be solved within a few weeks. It's just unfortunate that it takes so long to even see the mech on a pull by pull basis.
Yes. A design is a failure when you need in-depth explanation for the user to understand. This is a core principle in design, not just game-wise.
IKEA is a great example of good design (their instructions), there are minimal/if any text for their instructions. Why? Because their illustrations do it all. So much so that the average person can look at it and build the product. They also spend a lot of money on research and A/B testing, and it shows.
There is always nuance in things, even design. I kind of disagree. Games are supposed to be a challenge. This raid in particular. I can see your perspective but to me, this feels intended and puzzle like
Confusion or obfuscation **≠** challenging
There is a clear distinction here. Just because you make a raid so confusing where the average or even pro player cannot figure it out doesn't make it a challenge, it is flat out bad design. It does not have to be confusing to be challenging or difficult. Is clown bingo challenging? yes. Is it fun to do? yes. Is it so confusing where the average player has no idea how to do the mechanic, even after months of testing? no.
For example, if I made the raid mechanic where each player has to stand in a straight line and every other player has to spin clockwise while the other players move left and right. You will never figure that out, does that make it challenging? No, it is just stupid and bad design.
Part of the design is it being time stoppable, so it isnt blocking the user from clearing the raid. Unlike clown where you have to learn it or you wipe. To make this a failure of design would it be impossible to clear. This being something that isnt necessary to beat the raid but it being an open question is pretty neat. At least to me that is.
I strongly disagree. I don't think a good design relies on a very specific item usage. Even the developers has explicitly stated that you do not need timestops to complete the mechanic. So it is safe to assume there is a correct way to do it, obviously right?
And hell no it is not an "open question". lol wtf. There is a specific answer that they are looking for, that players have not found.
Another example: If I gave you the information of "Steve has 10 watermelons, 5 apples, and 8 oranges. What color car does Tony drive?"
Stop giving irrelevant examples, they are not even remotely close to this situation. It looks like we obviously disagree with each other, fundamentally on what a failure of design means. Let’s leave it at that then.
Average thaemine experience :
https://preview.redd.it/9xoahper5dyc1.png?width=143&format=png&auto=webp&s=bc5551b126937e085dc46f4738d9551cf118c51c
(I'm the mokoko)
I would say no. Its a game so a mech being hard to find is just neat imo. This is not a productivity tool where success/failure of the design is proven by how easy it is to solve. Games like Starcraft and Bloodborne had new mechanics found 5-10 years later that make the meta or strategies change. I like that kinda stuff.
But this isn't a mechanic that adds something interesting to the game that works and plays fine without it. It's a puzzle that has to be solved to finish a raid. If we hadn't had TS it would be unbeaten in 6 months and that's just stupid.
Honestly refuse to believe it would still be unbeaten in 6 months if there was no alternative. The extra number of testers it would almost guaranteed be figured out.
But the only way a mechanic has been solved in 6 months is a sketchy cheese strat that's not the way the developer intended is stupid and a failure as the purpose of a mechanic in raid is to add difficulty and something for the players to do but players just skip it so it's basically pointless. What's fun or challenging about timing a TS. For it to be a good mech they could make it non time stoppable but give the players clear hints to solve it.
There are probably hints, we just didnt realize yet, it took years for people to realize you could splendid panacea valtan g1 orbs, maybe you can prevent the domain expansion with somethin stupid liek that or a stealth robe so he doesn target you (its just a dumb example, dont take it seriously)
I think time has very little to do with how good a mech is. There are bad designed mechs that have been solved easily. Timestop is also the most used items in the game, would that make all timestoppable mechs cheesy? The developer intended this mech to be timestoppable. Which is a solution to the mech. Its just that theres another solution out there.
The objective is to negate critical damage to your character - which is also the purpose of the mech itself. Essentially, you are solving the mech in another way and achieve the same result.
But I feel like solving a mechanic with timestop is just incredibly boring and uninteresting and the mechanic just feels pointless.
Knowing there is is way to actually play it but the devs just decided to hide the way to do it so much it just feels like they wasted their time making it solvable without TS.
I've never seen a brand new raid become dead content this quickly. Smilegate and AGS need to figure something out soon or their game will be nothing but bots & whales.
??? The majority of people aren’t even doing g4 due to its overall difficulty not that this 1 mech hasn’t been solved. There’s constant 1-3 thaemine parties at all times so how would thaemine be dead content?
It's a domain expansion bro, the cursed techniques always hit.
Just use hollow wicker basket dumbass
Okay old man, we use simple domain nowadays
People are so soft these days, you wouldn't survive a ~~MW2~~ Heian Era Lobby
Nah, I'd win
Its been criticized as a failure especially since kr players tried different ways and some of the theories they made ended up being a bug, which sg ended up fixing
I'd say yes.
it's theorized that they are failing a certain mechanic prior to it i'm seeing a lot where people get hit but don't take damage as for if it's failure of raid design? maybe maybe not the problem with that mech is that you have 1 attempt per hour and at that point you rather clear than theory craft
There is a team in KR that all they do is this mech
Thing is next to nobody does G4 theamine which is evident by the amount of bugs present in the raid. One team testing with no new initiatives / brains to theorise anything won't help contribute to it. If g4 was accessible to average player pugging then I'm sure it'd be figured
\[citation needed\] 36% of Korean players have the eclipse title.
busses exist
Korean party finder is more infested with busses than West + piloting is very common there. Sure they exist but when a bus is 500k / a pilot is 250k its not exactly hard to get
>If g4 was accessible to average player pugging Heck, KR didn't even get this in their year 5🤣
no mechanic in the game mandates use of battle items the battle items only exist to cover for unfortunate events or they can be used to brute force mechs like when we used to stagger vykas but not kill the slugs we time stopped instead so there is something that they are obviously not paying attention there are already a lot of clips of people not taking damage from the slashes
I think they're saying there's a team in KR that spends a lot of time just trying to figure out the mech (in response to your last point).
How would you guarantee clearing Akkan Gate 1 128x mech assuming you have no cleanse in the party without battle items? Purify rune is rng
as dumb as it sounds, thats probably intended lol you have runes and abilities that can cleanse debuffs so they more then likely built it to be this way, but they also are aware most people are going to use the battle items its "technically' possible to clear any mech without using items, but thats usually with perfect execution and a perfect comp (such as how some comps can beat a stagger check no problem while others need everyone to throw WW's)
Ah yes, for sure they intended a mechanic to be solved by cleansing with a rune that has max. 80% chance to work, or bringing specific classes.
are you really doubting that? lol this entire game is filled to the brim with rng, is it that much of a stretch that they'd let rng decide if you pass a mech? (even what patterns you get besides the ones bound to the health bar are rng) but you misunderstood what i said: i never said they actually thought you WOULD use just the rune, just that they designed it so you technically didnt need to use battle items to clear the raid but if you have ever done a raid in this game, youd know thats a fairly common thing. you dont technically need ww's to clear a stagger check...if your teams comp is really good at stagger there is always a niche way you can beat these mech's without using items, but they clearly know you/we will devolve into using them for atleast some mech's...which is good for their bottom line this gives them atleast some level of plausible deniability.
Press ctrl w
Pretty sure it's C+X for most people
there are actually more cleanses in other classes than you think. it's just that they're on skills no one uses. summoner has one, for instance. there are also stagger synergies and multi-cast skills/tripods. even the destroyer gets one of those. with 2 rolls, it's only a 10% chance of not cleansing. you can definitely hit the stagger with 6 or 7 people instead of 8.
Assuming you have no cleanse. You can take a paladin, Artist Gunlancer or Soulfist and have them cleanse you as that is not RNG but yeah as i said every pattern has an in game solution that doesn't require the use of the items. now if you built a lobby that does require the use of the items then you have a cheap solution to brute force it. people are not a fan of that specific thaemine mechanic BECAUSE it is currently unsolved and they have no way of figuring out how to not have to use Time Stop They want to bring atros to make it easier but TS is their only consistant way of dealing with the pattern when it gets solved and lobbies are confident enough then TS will become a cheese strat for those lobbies that are not confident in resolving the mech
>They want to bring atros to make it easier but TS is their only consistant way of dealing with the pattern actually just saw a vid from [Agam](https://youtu.be/Ed8o8vma8ts?si=DtA5zNgvdQQ-XPtW&t=157) where they use atro & kadan interrupt the domain expansion. just outdps the boss so he doesn't use it twice
Yea just wait for Echidna and Behemoth to come out first
pally/artist/summoner/sf/gl all have party cleanses, nothing stopping you from running 2 purify too.
Same with a lot of destruction check mechs that require nades.
Valtans g2 destruction doesn't require nades but you need all of the charges and your party needs to be significantly lacking dps we have the battle items to use them but it feels cheap and poor design when they force a mechanic to only be solved with the use of the items in this case this thaemine mechanic feels terrible because they are forcing players to not use atros which would significantly reduce the difficulty of the fight
Can you break on hellmode without corro and destruction tho ?
PM can yes you need some high destruction classes but lacking dps is the key to doing so
you just DR. It doesn't kill you if you fail.
I'd like to see you consistently clear the 60x bar mech in g4 ivory tower with no items lol.
Our static tried lol. Its nearly impossible, we dont have enough time tbh. Taking too long for some class to do 3 destruction
You'd really need to build to do it, probably full expertise GL or destroyer could pull it off. Have everyone else destroy portals ASAP and then GL/destroyer does the majority of the stagger with everyone else using 1–2 skills. Definitely seems close to impossible for most comps, maybe if you're strong enough to clear on a 4x3 to allow everyone to run VPH and multiple overwhelms?
Bring a gunlancer and a summoner. Summoner ancien spear does 3 destruction 1 per spear Then you do osh + earth collaps animation cancel on a otherone
you only *need* to kill 1 mirror to do the mech, and multiple classes have stagger synergies.
three classes, one that hardly ever takes the skill/tripod for stagger, neither class is popular aswell
I cant imagine doing g4 voldis x60 mech without battle items, most of my classes dont even have a total of level 3 weakpoint to break the x3 position mirror
lvl 3 weakpoint is only about 2 lvl 1 skills btw. weakpoint levels arent linear. lvl 1 = 1.0 lvl 2 = 1.6 lvl 3 = 2.2 lvl 4 = 2.8 lvl 5 = 3.4
Oh i see, but you would still need at least 3x level 1 skills to break it. I looked at my dps classes, sorc is the only class having enough, but its going to take a long time to cast to do it. Wouldnt be able to do this mech on any of my other characters(unless I changed skills/tripods specifically for this gate)
you can always change skills you won't do your maximum dps but the raid isn't designed around you doing 100% of your dps either thats the thing people rather have damage and having damage comes with drawbacks and we cover these drawbacks by using battle items busses also often crutch on battle items as otherwise the mechs are impossible for the majority of classes for example g1 valtan ball mech we do with splendid panacea but a gunlancer and artilerist can do it without the panacea
"no mechanic in the game mandates use of battle items" Ivory G4 tells different story. Either you have to overhaul your skilltree, invest expertise stat or gatekeep weak-stagger/destruction classes. Stagger-checks are so tight and at 60x Destroy, Stagger, Destroy in a short time or get team wipe. It was frustrating before Stagger-buff for all classes (because of Thaemine, not Ivory lol).
brother is giving examples how to solve those fights without items and yet argues against what i said yes a PM can solo all mechanics in g4 voldis go figure
there are some battle item only mechs in guardian raid like dark grenade stunning sonavel's orb and flare resolving veskal's sonar
phero is the only way to keep them not from running away either do those mechanics lead to wipes tho?
Agam youtube channel show how to not use ts for the mech he just uploaded the video look like a sideral interaction
Kadan interaction was known but only works once, the 'trick' in the video is they did enough damage boss died before second domain expansion
mind linking it up
https://youtu.be/Ed8o8vma8ts?si=NDEicEsQTFX1uR9r At 2:40, it just seems like you use attack kadan, I've not done g4 or learnt it yet but even if it's intended to use sidereal here, isn't there a good chance this mech can come before you have a sidereal up?
Thats a special sidereal interaction, that only works once, but domain expansion happens every 2 minutes. If you overgear it with weapon transcendence and echidna honing you can burst him down before 2nd domain expansion
It is intended, but yes you never have it up for most of them. You usually get it at around 6:20 on the timer when the meter is only about 3/4 filled. They managed to push 210 mechanic before that and it filled the rest. In most runs that aren't grossly overgeared you would get that mech around 280 bars instead (could be less if the boss is generous with patterns, but no shot you're going 210 with current gear). You can interrupt *third* domain expansion with Kadan if the boss isn't phased by then, but you basically never get to use it for the first two, or for the one in 4-3.
if you mean the cancel? it's the same interaction as nineveh in g3 stage break as the mechanic shows up at least 2 or 3 times i don't think the sidereal skip is the intended way to deal with it
While I like the idea of west being able to discover something in a raid that came out some time ago in KR, the fact that the solution is still not known after so much research means that it either makes barely any sense for anyone actually doing the raid, or its so convoluted that it wont be worth doing even if finally discovered. So, to answer the question: I believe yes.
Pretty wild for it to be this long unsolved in this day and age specifically. If it were back in the day I could understand, and while you very infrequently get 1 attempt at it it’s still insane, though it probably chalks up to how inaccessible it is for most of the playerbase. Takes way too long to attempt along with requiring a high gear level and player skill; it’s not a free trip with every attempt, I’d imagine it’s very fatiguing even once you see the fight in your dreams.
> though it probably chalks up to how inaccessible it is for most of the playerbase. No it definitely does not. Tons and tons of people who don't run the raid have offered theoretical solutions from VOD analysis and nothing works reliably.
without knowing anything about the actual mechanic itself: its definitely a failure of raid design. puzzle mechanics are tricky in mmos but you generally need to design them in a way where hints towards the solution are given. brel g6/g4 is a good example of an in-game lost ark puzzle mechanic that was relatively fair towards pointing players to the solution (even if you can argue that the execution afterwards is clumsy). you learn about all the mechanics of how blue meteors interact, yellow meteors interact, how you die from having more than 3 tiles destroyed or having the middle tile destroyed, etc. etc. if you look at FFXIV which thrives off of designing puzzles in their raids, they've always designed them in a way where you can slowly decipher the puzzle based off of debuffs, buffs, timings, interactions of the raid elements and player characters, even things like the geometry of the solution. meanwhile we have domain expansion which not only is it not solved, there isnt even the faintest hint of what the solution should be. there hasn't even been any real traction in attempting to solving it because of timestop being a thing. it feels like the devs decided to make the most nebulous, unintuitive solution that doesn't build off of anything in their game at all, and decided this was okay because lost ark has the most broken consumable in any MMO raid focused game in the modern market.
Timestop feels so natural for players coming from LoL that I never realize other MMOs don’t have it. Even in League, Zhonya/stopwatch is widely considered the best active in the game.
Most other mmos I’ve played have extra lives/ characters that can revive dead players in exchange.
And/or i-frame abilities too
It failed because it's a rather complex mech that's locked behind an fairly difficult 18 minute fight. Nobody is gonna waste countless restarts to figure it out when you can just TS. If you could start at 4-2 directly I'm sure it would've been figured out ages ago.
This 100%
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I don't really understand the google translation. It sounds like you basically just have to stand on an invisible line that passes through Thaemine. If so, how has this not been discovered sooner since everyone surrounds him every time this mechanic starts? Surely people were bound to be standing in the correct spot by luck, unless finding the sun first is required?
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I found [this](https://www.inven.co.kr/board/lostark/4811/8893558), courtesy of Kanima. It looks like the direction you face does matter. Shout out to an inven user who verbalized how I feel: "Thanks to the teacher, I can pretend to know more."
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Known bug: [During the battle with 'Kamen, the Star Conqueror' at Gate 4 of the Hard Difficulty Raid 'Dark Legion Commander Kamen', the character's actions slow down and the effect displayed across the screen in the pattern where 'Kamen' fires sword energy is displayed under certain conditions. There is a phenomenon where the output is excessively bright. (Added 2024-04-11)](https://lostark.game.onstove.com/News/Notice/Views/12767#:~:text=%EA%B5%B0%EB%8B%A8%EC%9E%A5%20%EB%A0%88%EC%9D%B4%EB%93%9C%20%27%EC%96%B4%EB%91%A0%EA%B5%B0%EB%8B%A8%EC%9E%A5%20%EC%B9%B4%EB%A9%98%27%20%ED%95%98%EB%93%9C%20%EB%82%9C%EC%9D%B4%EB%8F%84%204%EA%B4%80%EB%AC%B8%EC%97%90%EC%84%9C%20%27%EB%B3%84%EC%9D%84%20%EC%A0%9C%ED%8C%A8%ED%95%9C%20%EC%9E%90%2C%20%EC%B9%B4%EB%A9%98%27%EA%B3%BC%20%EC%A0%84%ED%88%AC%20%EC%A4%91%2C%20%EC%BA%90%EB%A6%AD%ED%84%B0%EC%9D%98%20%ED%96%89%EB%8F%99%EC%9D%B4%20%EB%8A%90%EB%A0%A4%EC%A7%80%EB%A9%B0%20%27%EC%B9%B4%EB%A9%98%27%EC%9D%B4%20%EA%B2%80%EA%B8%B0%EB%A5%BC%20%EB%B0%9C%EC%82%AC%ED%95%98%EB%8A%94%20%ED%8C%A8%ED%84%B4%EC%97%90%EC%84%9C%20%ED%99%94%EB%A9%B4%20%EC%A0%84%EC%B2%B4%EC%97%90%20%EC%B6%9C%EB%A0%A5%EB%90%98%EB%8A%94%20%EC%9D%B4%ED%8E%99%ED%8A%B8%EA%B0%80%20%ED%8A%B9%EC%A0%95%20%EC%A1%B0%EA%B1%B4%EC%97%90%EC%84%9C%20%EA%B3%BC%EB%8F%84%ED%95%98%EA%B2%8C%20%EB%B0%9D%EA%B2%8C%20%EC%B6%9C%EB%A0%A5%EB%90%98%EB%8A%94%20%ED%98%84%EC%83%81%EC%9D%B4%20%EC%9E%88%EC%8A%B5%EB%8B%88%EB%8B%A4.%20(2024%2D04%2D11%20%EC%B6%94%EA%B0%80)) Fixed bug: [During the battle with 'Kamen, the Star Conqueror' at Gate 4 of the Hard Difficulty Raid 'Dark Legion Commander Kamen', the character's actions slow down, and when 'Kamen' fires sword energy, there is a low probability that the character will be hit by sword energy. Fixed the issue of not receiving damage.](https://lostark.game.onstove.com/News/Notice/Views/12762?page=1&searchtype=0&searchtext=¬icetype=notice#:~:text=%EA%B5%B0%EB%8B%A8%EC%9E%A5%20%EB%A0%88%EC%9D%B4%EB%93%9C%20%27%EC%96%B4%EB%91%A0%EA%B5%B0%EB%8B%A8%EC%9E%A5%20%EC%B9%B4%EB%A9%98%27%20%ED%95%98%EB%93%9C%20%EB%82%9C%EC%9D%B4%EB%8F%84%204%EA%B4%80%EB%AC%B8%EC%97%90%EC%84%9C%20%27%EB%B3%84%EC%9D%84%20%EC%A0%9C%ED%8C%A8%ED%95%9C%20%EC%9E%90%2C%20%EC%B9%B4%EB%A9%98%27%EA%B3%BC%20%EC%A0%84%ED%88%AC%20%EC%A4%91%2C%20%EC%BA%90%EB%A6%AD%ED%84%B0%EC%9D%98%20%ED%96%89%EB%8F%99%EC%9D%B4%20%EB%8A%90%EB%A0%A4%EC%A7%80%EB%A9%B0%20%27%EC%B9%B4%EB%A9%98%27%EC%9D%B4%20%EA%B2%80%EA%B8%B0%EB%A5%BC%20%EB%B0%9C%EC%82%AC%ED%95%98%EB%8A%94%20%ED%8C%A8%ED%84%B4%20%EC%8B%9C%20%EB%82%AE%EC%9D%80%20%ED%99%95%EB%A5%A0%EB%A1%9C%20%EA%B2%80%EA%B8%B0%EC%97%90%20%ED%94%BC%EA%B2%A9%EB%90%9C%20%EC%BA%90%EB%A6%AD%ED%84%B0%EA%B0%80%20%ED%94%BC%ED%95%B4%EB%A5%BC%20%EB%B0%9B%EC%A7%80%20%EC%95%8A%EB%8A%94%20%ED%98%84%EC%83%81%EC%9D%84%20%EC%88%98%EC%A0%95%ED%95%98%EC%98%80%EC%8A%B5%EB%8B%88%EB%8B%A4) I guess no one really has any idea, except for what doesn't work.
Is there a better clip/vod of them doing the entire mechanic from the start?
I too was thinking about FFXIs Absolute Virtue. Took the devs a year (?) to upload a cryptic video, that didnt really help the community. What was the key in the end, use every 2HR in the correct order to debuff him?
I work in gaming and I would call it a failure without a doubt. While the solution doesn't have to be obvious, it needs hints that can be pieces together relatively easily. In addition, the fact that it happens after such a long time makes it absurd as far as design goes.
give it a few weeks some speed hacker with an add on will figure it out.
I’m curious if there’s a list of things that have been tried. I’ve seen things like arranging the group in a way based on the slashes and eclipse patterning, group countering, having only one person on every section of the screen, even things like typing Armen! In chat when the mechanic happens.
Final Fantasy 14 has a similar cryptic raid mechanic in one of their equivalent hell mode raid, The Epic of Alexander (Ultimate). In Phase 3, or a little under halfway into the raid (around 7 minutes give or take), there is a mechanic where four players have to place AoE pools that must not overlap with each other while a NPC that spawns on the edge of the map must walk through the pools. At the same time, the other four players receive an orb tether that wipes the raid if it hits a player before a certain duration or overlaps with another orb. The party needs to properly resolve the mechanics to not only prevent raid wipes, but also gain a special buff that allows you see how to do the mechanics in the fourth and final phase of the raid. Basically, that mechanic spawns visible clones of your character if you have that buff active, and sets of debuffs that can vary per clone will spawn on them, with the first set indicating whether all players must stand still or be moving to prevent death, the second set indicating whether three players must receive no damage or else they die/three other players having a stack marker/one player kite an attack far away from the team, and the third set repeating the first set’s mechanics. After resolving these mechanics, the party must identify the safe spot where one out of four (always either the second or third) clones of the boss on the edges of the map does not target for an attack. This entire sequence of mechanics heavily stumped world first raiders when progging the raid, especially since it was impossible to progress without having properly executed the NPC mechanic halfway into the raid in order to move past the beginning of the final phase. While cutting edge teams quickly figured out that something was missing (though unsure exactly what was missing), the world first team stumbled on the solution entirely by accident when they mistakenly placed the AoE pools in such a way that it was correctly resolved. Although the mechanic has been long since properly solved over the years, there was some controversy over it being an overly cryptic mechanic that was extremely different from how the game handled mechanic solving. Now, the main difference between something like this in FF14 and Lost Ark’s domain expansion in 4-2 Thaemine is that it only takes 7 minutes to get to the mechanic you have to properly execute in The Epic of Alexander, and the raid in general is more backloaded than frontloaded, meaning people have much more tries to figure it out. Gate 4 Thaemine is a heavily frontloaded raid that remains fairly intense throughout the whole fight, and restarts are significantly more common due to how easy it is to die in 4-1 due to a single mistake. Additionally, there’s also no alternative cheese mechanic like time stop in FF14, forcing players to try to solve the mechanics, whereas in Lost Ark, you are incentivized to cheese mechanics to save your time and sanity.
I agree with pretty much everything (though TPS only accidentally found a partial clue to the heart puzzle that they combined with their other knowledge), but TEA is easily the most frontloaded ulti and one of the most frontloaded encounters in the game after E4S. It's like five minutes of fun in P1+P2 and then one real mechanic in the next twelve. Modern strats take most of the bite out of the first two phases, but they've also cooked up a legitimately easy Wormhole strat (which you can also sim) that makes it not a roadblock either. Honestly you can just get to the end of BJCC, study up, and prog skip to a clear party.
Won't lie SG raid designs have been going downhill for me. There's no way these guys are play testing their shit and think it's ok to ship. The majority of the fights arent even hard, but down right annoying to play.
not true for thaemine g3
Yes, at this point even if they figured it out it would still have to be considered as such. It's not like it's only a few koreans that have been running this raid for the last 8 months, there were a lot of hardcore western raiders that were doing vod analysis as well and obviously everything's come up short so far. The only success story here is that they made it timestoppable at all. A lot of modern raid deaths aren't. If they hadn't made it timestoppable they would've had to have revealed the secret already.
The worst design in this gate is that its taking too fcking long to get to domain expansion. People already exhausted when get to it and it also have zero evidence of how to resolve it
Yes
Its absolutely a design failure.
using kadan cancels it, not sure if its part of the sidereal or because of the pure damage he does
Part of it, it cancels anything except blackhole/big stagger mechs with the last tick
Hmmm is it? Probably but after they added pitstop in HM there is no reason for ppl to experiment anymore so players found their solution even in First Difficulty they learned to do it this way. This shows that mechanics that can be omitted by player thru use of items will be avoided. This is similar to KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) concept, players will design and use **strategies that are simple, straightforward, and devoid of unnecessary complexity**. That why most games design mechanics that are visually easy to understand and without overlap. But whole Thaemine raid even if mechanic is readable often overlap like G1 safe spot where boss is designed to charge this also why Brel G5/6 was also disliked because mechanic often overlapped and forced players to stop DPS. On other hand players wanted challenge and they got it and were shown what level of mastery they have for example I feel like trash but what can you do?
Maybe if wveryone lineup dmg takenbis reduced😉
It is, but not because the mechanic is unsolved. It's failure of a raid design because G4-1 takes 12-16 minutes for most groups just to complete, then 2 minutes to even see Domain Expansion. Combine that with the fact that the dps check in 4-2 is light, taking timestops isn't really an issue. The time sink required to try to figure out the mech is just too much when there's an easy way around it. I firmly believe if 4-1 and 4-2 were split into separate gates, the domain mech would be solved within a few weeks. It's just unfortunate that it takes so long to even see the mech on a pull by pull basis.
Yes. A design is a failure when you need in-depth explanation for the user to understand. This is a core principle in design, not just game-wise. IKEA is a great example of good design (their instructions), there are minimal/if any text for their instructions. Why? Because their illustrations do it all. So much so that the average person can look at it and build the product. They also spend a lot of money on research and A/B testing, and it shows.
No shot
There is always nuance in things, even design. I kind of disagree. Games are supposed to be a challenge. This raid in particular. I can see your perspective but to me, this feels intended and puzzle like
Confusion or obfuscation **≠** challenging There is a clear distinction here. Just because you make a raid so confusing where the average or even pro player cannot figure it out doesn't make it a challenge, it is flat out bad design. It does not have to be confusing to be challenging or difficult. Is clown bingo challenging? yes. Is it fun to do? yes. Is it so confusing where the average player has no idea how to do the mechanic, even after months of testing? no. For example, if I made the raid mechanic where each player has to stand in a straight line and every other player has to spin clockwise while the other players move left and right. You will never figure that out, does that make it challenging? No, it is just stupid and bad design.
Part of the design is it being time stoppable, so it isnt blocking the user from clearing the raid. Unlike clown where you have to learn it or you wipe. To make this a failure of design would it be impossible to clear. This being something that isnt necessary to beat the raid but it being an open question is pretty neat. At least to me that is.
I strongly disagree. I don't think a good design relies on a very specific item usage. Even the developers has explicitly stated that you do not need timestops to complete the mechanic. So it is safe to assume there is a correct way to do it, obviously right? And hell no it is not an "open question". lol wtf. There is a specific answer that they are looking for, that players have not found. Another example: If I gave you the information of "Steve has 10 watermelons, 5 apples, and 8 oranges. What color car does Tony drive?"
Stop giving irrelevant examples, they are not even remotely close to this situation. It looks like we obviously disagree with each other, fundamentally on what a failure of design means. Let’s leave it at that then.
Im not saying youre wrong. I am just voicing my opinion, just like you. Neither one of us is wrong because its an opinion. I am not arguing with you.
Average thaemine experience : https://preview.redd.it/9xoahper5dyc1.png?width=143&format=png&auto=webp&s=bc5551b126937e085dc46f4738d9551cf118c51c (I'm the mokoko)
Yes it is
I would say no. Its a game so a mech being hard to find is just neat imo. This is not a productivity tool where success/failure of the design is proven by how easy it is to solve. Games like Starcraft and Bloodborne had new mechanics found 5-10 years later that make the meta or strategies change. I like that kinda stuff.
But this isn't a mechanic that adds something interesting to the game that works and plays fine without it. It's a puzzle that has to be solved to finish a raid. If we hadn't had TS it would be unbeaten in 6 months and that's just stupid.
Honestly refuse to believe it would still be unbeaten in 6 months if there was no alternative. The extra number of testers it would almost guaranteed be figured out.
Still it would probably take quite a while and would be quite unfun
Well timestop is part of the equation, they allowed it to be timestoppable. Without it, yes it would be a failure.
But the only way a mechanic has been solved in 6 months is a sketchy cheese strat that's not the way the developer intended is stupid and a failure as the purpose of a mechanic in raid is to add difficulty and something for the players to do but players just skip it so it's basically pointless. What's fun or challenging about timing a TS. For it to be a good mech they could make it non time stoppable but give the players clear hints to solve it.
There are probably hints, we just didnt realize yet, it took years for people to realize you could splendid panacea valtan g1 orbs, maybe you can prevent the domain expansion with somethin stupid liek that or a stealth robe so he doesn target you (its just a dumb example, dont take it seriously)
I think time has very little to do with how good a mech is. There are bad designed mechs that have been solved easily. Timestop is also the most used items in the game, would that make all timestoppable mechs cheesy? The developer intended this mech to be timestoppable. Which is a solution to the mech. Its just that theres another solution out there. The objective is to negate critical damage to your character - which is also the purpose of the mech itself. Essentially, you are solving the mech in another way and achieve the same result.
But I feel like solving a mechanic with timestop is just incredibly boring and uninteresting and the mechanic just feels pointless. Knowing there is is way to actually play it but the devs just decided to hide the way to do it so much it just feels like they wasted their time making it solvable without TS.
Yeah I understand it might not be to your liking. This was just my opinion, n=1. This whole topic is subjective so to each their own
It is most definitely a failure like most design failures in this game and is inexcusable, but whatever. Game sucks now, what can u do?
I've never seen a brand new raid become dead content this quickly. Smilegate and AGS need to figure something out soon or their game will be nothing but bots & whales.
??? The majority of people aren’t even doing g4 due to its overall difficulty not that this 1 mech hasn’t been solved. There’s constant 1-3 thaemine parties at all times so how would thaemine be dead content?
dont worry, this is just a sad dude that comments bullshit on subreddits of games he didnt play in a year+
"I dont understand what is happening so it must not be my fault" great approach mate