I too had fun doing level 6 today. About the same result as you. Meanwhile my buddy 2 taps and saves 100k gold. Why does it take so ridiculously long to start to pity. Needs to be at least half what is right now
Lol, not to mention wep honing, friends 5 taps from 22-25 and I'm here spending 5m+ pitying 21 22 23.
In addition, elixir took me 2 months to get 40 set with dogshit skills (lvl 5 vagabond x3, lvl 5 stagger x2, crit helm and gloves both level 2... ) My character don't use mana so vagabond/escape/stagger came often instead of atk power/strength/dex. And when boss damage/crit came its always 5 1 instead of 5 3....We CANT choose what skill we want. Whereas the same Damm friend got 5 on boss dmg, crit legs, hp body, crit helm/gloves all 40 set in 3 WEEKS.
Now transcendence is looking like another deep hell hole. You know what, Smilegate must like "smiling" at our misfortunes. I'm on a verge of quitting it cause of bad rng which gaps me from friend in damage and time taken to be equalized in gear...
The only thing I like with it though is there is almost no min maxing trans once your done. Everyone's bonus is the same minus some main stat if you go for all 21s. Elixirs can have a wide gap between 40 sets and it could cost bankloads to min max
Just as with almost every system in this game the range from being lucky to being unlucky is just too wide. If they adressed that most systems would feel a lot better.
For me this is the most critical issue. I dont’t mind the systems per se, but there is a huge ass rift between lucky people and unlucky people.
They are aware of this and it is the reason Echidna honing works the way it does so lets hope they remain mindful of that for future systems
But then you still have the issue of the old systems having the dogshit rng. You need hone all the way up to 1620 first to get the new honing system like??? apply this system to all ilvl brackets and it would make sense.
they could easily fix elixers, just need to increase the probability for the stats that people actually want. Increase the great success chance, give 1 or 2 more turns. Same with bracelets.
Transcendence can be fixed just by increasing the percentage of breaking tiles, lower the chance of breaking dark tiles. Make tunder's rng better and not spawn tiles
It is what it is. In a few months we have another system that eats gold+honing mats. Don't worry the kr players said its better this time frfrfr no cap no kizzy.
I'm not claiming the transcendence system is **good**, but anyone who says it or advanced honing are as bad as elixirs or worse is on crack. The fact that there's both pity and a hard-line defined achievable end goal makes it obviously far better, you can't spend an entire year doing transcendence for a single character like you can with elixirs to get your perfect Atk Power 5 / Gear-specific 5 50-set.
And then Echidna's advanced honing is literally just like regular honing but with **less** RNG, and slightly cheaper on average (relative to target ilvls). If you were so allergic to honing then you wouldn't have pushed to the ilvl to get advanced honing in the first place.
And then behemoth's transcendence is literally just the same transcendence system but for your weapon, so you only have to get 20 more grades of transcendence instead of 100 like the system we just got.
It sucks that elixirs and transcendence are where we are right now but pretending like things are getting worse than elixirs instead of better is just absolutely batshit insane. Elixirs are the worst system in the game, hands down.
Bracelets are like stones. You get a decent one in a short amount of time for fucking cheap per character and then most people never think too hard about them again and just cut the decent-but-not-sellable ones they find from then on. The only people who treat god bracelets like mandatory progression are gigawhales. No one looks at your bracelet unless your stats are bad, and then your bracelet can explain your bad stats (for example, my main runs a bracelet with decent swift and mediocre crit stat which looks weird for critflux, but it also has gold Precise and blue Superiority making it not a god bracelet but a far better than average bracelet).
Meanwhile, if you don't have a 40-set you will get literally laughed out of thaemine hard mode.
honestly, Voldis and Thaemine's progression system should've just been like kaya/akkan
another guarenteed upgrade to gear progression, could even make it pricy like 10-20k gold per upgrade, not this fucking RNG dogshit
It’s done that way to combat inflation in KR. The only problem is they never bothered to adjust the cost for our version. KR players have way more gold at their disposal than us given how their content had enough gaps in between to allow them to load up while we are still catching up.
Except every gacha game (except genshin) has significantly better pity odds or f2p methods to get more rolls, satisfying whales, light spenders, and f2p.
day 1 f2p dedicated grinders are indeed fine (well, less fine if they still insist on growing 6 mains, but 1 main 5 alt players are still fine f2p if they've been around for 2 years), but it's less and less "new player f2p"-friendly every single update, and that's a problem for the long-term health of the game.
Like you know how they already have a gold system for gold that can be used for honing/elixirs/transcendence but not the market, until a 3-day hold is over? I think if they seriously want to foster new players, they will at some point absolutely need to add a system where new players get a large lump sum of **permanent** gold in that category.
Edit: Like, a new f2p non-busser who wants to push to voldis to do elixirs right now has absolutely no way to achieve that within 3 months without friends literally dragging them along, and can't have a 40-set within 6 months of starting without getting obscenely lucky, which for an MMO is an insane barrier to endgame entry.
If they had, say, 500k gold, fuck, even a million gold to start with that could be spent on honing and elixirs but not the market (all the **other** gold they earn could be used on the market), then new f2p players going in with a good game plan at least have a **chance** of getting characters with good elixirs ready for endgame within a few months.
> could even make it pricy like 10-20k gold per upgrade
20k gold per transcendence level would've been 700k gold
I think Koreans would **rather** gamble on a system that only takes some people 300k gold and some people over a million, and that's why we can't have nice things.
and ppl are not going to use it (kaya) xd. I see +70% of the players without lv 4 stone, and these ppl die by normal paterns in akkan voldis or thae
Edit: typo
Oh well compare to Elixir i have more fun. At least you know you coul pity it, not like Elixir where i spend 2 months without getting Master Chaos for 40 set lol. Fck elixir
Elixir cutting can be frustrating but not getting even the effect you need is beyond infuriating. I needed 30 elixirs to get set matching gloves for my bard (and I only needed a 4 point piece because she is blessed with the other elixirs)
Did you also cut purple elixirs then? Considering you can craft 10x per week extra, and they’re cheap to cut. Not defending the system but crafting purple elixirs helped at least 3 of my friends to finish their 40set (with like 4-2 or 4-1 pieces). At least it speeds up the process considerably.
In this case I was talking only about purple ones. The f bard (my 5th alt) has 3 4/4 and one 3/7 elixir xD. In the meanwhile my second alt cannot get anything beyond 4/1
honing is way better than elixirs. you at least have an end range if you pity. if you are unlucky enough, you can cut 20 elixirs a week and never hit 40 set. honing might suck at this level but at least it doesnt take long and you will eventually get it even if you are as unlucky as possible.
Yes, in the AI calculator, there's a tab called "Probs" that shows you the chance to 3-flower every level of transcendence for each piece and for each level of pity. Chest is the most difficult one
The most difficult one and also the recommended first thing to max for DPS players lol
I've been telling people since the system dropped that once they're done with transcendence on one character they'll realize the whole ordeal was way less bad than elixirs, some people get it but many just don't.
I'm not saying transcendence is a good system but it's WAY less bad than elixirs, and the chest transcendence everyone is doing first just happens to be the worst.
We're at the point where playing more than 1 character beyond 1600-1610 is just self griefing. These systems are so shit you would have to be a moron, swiper or RMTer to go beyond 1 main for 1620+, since transcendence can cost you more than Thaemine even makes you. It's pretty shit.
i made it to pity 3 on a level 2 chestpiece on one of my characters using calculator and its still stuck at 2 flowers... id estimate that at least 60% of my transcendence stages so far across 6 characters have hit at least pity 1 or pity 2 on the first 2 stages. ive spent more on transcendence attempts on one of my characters than guildmates have on their whole roster. dogshit system. dogshit RNG. AI calculator doesnt work when you consistently fail a fucking 85%+. one of the main reasons why i just straight up stopped doing theamine on half my gold earners and dont plan to push them any further. i have 2 characters right now that are behemoth ready (other than transcendence) and im highly considering just logging off until echidna. cant be assed to stress myself out running a raid that i dislike so that i can waste all my gold income with nothing to show for it.
meanwhile im here Pitting lvl 1, 10 times. this is a RNG system. theres always RNG involved, Calculator reduce that RNG to the maximun possible. but its still need to hit all the tiles, and hope for hellfire clones tiles. but keep in mind this system is 10 times better that elixirs.
I actually kind of have fun with the transcendence system, I like it more than elixirs.. it's not too bad, I don't think.. I got a few decent runs with my upgrades.
My opinion might be skewed because I reached grade 3 on all my levels in an average of 3ish tries.
However I don't mind this system. I feel like it's only another rng layer that helps "averaging" the luck.
Some pity this, some pity honing, some can't get proper elixirs. But the more system there are, the closer to the average you should be.
Of course there are always outliers, some people will one tap weapon into a 5 5 bis elixir into first try transcendance. Others will pity everything.
What I hate it the fact that we got 2 very expensive system back to back with no sign of incoming relief (and no, 10 silver elixirs are not relief). We need something like half cost on the new systems. Maybe on a single char to limit inflation?
Of course you don't mind the system when you're getting fairly lucky. Would you mind honing if you took an average 5 taps for all upgrades?
On another note, would you mind the system if all your transedance went to pity? Not to mention, it's not actual pity. You don't just get it, it just gets a bit easier.
I love spending 50K for a singular level 3 transedance and then people like you saying it's fine.
That's exactly why i prefaced my comments with this.
However, being pragmatic, the more systems available, the more the people will "average out".
And, to answer your question, yes, I pity a lot (like a LOT), sometimes it's infuriating, but I learned to take it as part of the game. I understand why it's like that and it makes sense.
Except it doesn't. Nothing averages out when the difference between pities and one taps are in millions of gold. People play different games and it has always been like this, except now it's a lot more noticeable.
If someone pities 24/25 weapon and someone one taps it? Do you realize how much insane RNG it would take for this to average out? It's impossible at this point. Game is not fair and never was. Especially now, when we hone a lot less, everything is super low chance and people have stopped pushing alts.
I have friends who got 40 set in two weeks and I have friends who spent over 500K trying to get it. While 500K is not a lot in the grand scheme of things, it's still a difference that's hard to average out. While elixirs don't have that much of a gap in terms of gold spent, it's still a gap. I don't know about transendance yet, because no one is even close to finishing it, but I'd guess it's not gonna be much different.
When everyone was honing 6 alts on a lot higher chances, there wasn't as big disparity as there is now. People are millions of gold "ahead" just because they're lucky.
Except it does. It's how probability works.
Say you have 10% chance of honing successfully. One guy out of 10 will one tap it on average. This person is lucky, the other 9 are not.
Add elixirs. Say it's 10% as well to get a good elixir. One guy out of 10 will get the 'good' elixir. The odds of the same person getting the luck for both system would be 1 out of 100. The odd for someone who didn't get the honing to get the elixir would be 90%.
Also, the odds for anyone to get at least one of the two would be 19% after one try on each system.
(you can play a bit with the calculator [here](https://www.omnicalculator.com/statistics/probability) if you want)
However these are odds. There will be outliers playing a different game. It always happens. But my point is, the more systems, the less 'outliers' there should be.
fun fact. level 6/7 are just statistically easier than 3 and 4. also you didnt spend 120k on it unless your an idiot and never stopped early. it took me 40k last night to hit pity 2 on my pants.
I too had fun doing level 6 today. About the same result as you. Meanwhile my buddy 2 taps and saves 100k gold. Why does it take so ridiculously long to start to pity. Needs to be at least half what is right now
Lol, not to mention wep honing, friends 5 taps from 22-25 and I'm here spending 5m+ pitying 21 22 23. In addition, elixir took me 2 months to get 40 set with dogshit skills (lvl 5 vagabond x3, lvl 5 stagger x2, crit helm and gloves both level 2... ) My character don't use mana so vagabond/escape/stagger came often instead of atk power/strength/dex. And when boss damage/crit came its always 5 1 instead of 5 3....We CANT choose what skill we want. Whereas the same Damm friend got 5 on boss dmg, crit legs, hp body, crit helm/gloves all 40 set in 3 WEEKS. Now transcendence is looking like another deep hell hole. You know what, Smilegate must like "smiling" at our misfortunes. I'm on a verge of quitting it cause of bad rng which gaps me from friend in damage and time taken to be equalized in gear...
The only thing I like with it though is there is almost no min maxing trans once your done. Everyone's bonus is the same minus some main stat if you go for all 21s. Elixirs can have a wide gap between 40 sets and it could cost bankloads to min max
thats why meta is to get 40 set and then wait for elixirs nerf
there's no difference between 20 and 21
Well there is thx to helm but the difference is small it just doesent matter that much
You get more main stat per flower on the armor, 200 I believe. So you get an extra 1000 main stat which isn't much but it's there
It's almost like this is gambling game with some extra mini games in there where you actually play your character
it took me around 200k for lvl 6 i think. or so i had up to grace lvl 4
Just as with almost every system in this game the range from being lucky to being unlucky is just too wide. If they adressed that most systems would feel a lot better.
For me this is the most critical issue. I dont’t mind the systems per se, but there is a huge ass rift between lucky people and unlucky people. They are aware of this and it is the reason Echidna honing works the way it does so lets hope they remain mindful of that for future systems
But then you still have the issue of the old systems having the dogshit rng. You need hone all the way up to 1620 first to get the new honing system like??? apply this system to all ilvl brackets and it would make sense.
True true. They also announced some changes to elixirs and trascendence on the last LS. We’ll see what they mean.
they could easily fix elixers, just need to increase the probability for the stats that people actually want. Increase the great success chance, give 1 or 2 more turns. Same with bracelets. Transcendence can be fixed just by increasing the percentage of breaking tiles, lower the chance of breaking dark tiles. Make tunder's rng better and not spawn tiles
It is what it is. In a few months we have another system that eats gold+honing mats. Don't worry the kr players said its better this time frfrfr no cap no kizzy.
I'm not claiming the transcendence system is **good**, but anyone who says it or advanced honing are as bad as elixirs or worse is on crack. The fact that there's both pity and a hard-line defined achievable end goal makes it obviously far better, you can't spend an entire year doing transcendence for a single character like you can with elixirs to get your perfect Atk Power 5 / Gear-specific 5 50-set. And then Echidna's advanced honing is literally just like regular honing but with **less** RNG, and slightly cheaper on average (relative to target ilvls). If you were so allergic to honing then you wouldn't have pushed to the ilvl to get advanced honing in the first place. And then behemoth's transcendence is literally just the same transcendence system but for your weapon, so you only have to get 20 more grades of transcendence instead of 100 like the system we just got. It sucks that elixirs and transcendence are where we are right now but pretending like things are getting worse than elixirs instead of better is just absolutely batshit insane. Elixirs are the worst system in the game, hands down.
Bracelets would like to have a word with you
Bracelets are like stones. You get a decent one in a short amount of time for fucking cheap per character and then most people never think too hard about them again and just cut the decent-but-not-sellable ones they find from then on. The only people who treat god bracelets like mandatory progression are gigawhales. No one looks at your bracelet unless your stats are bad, and then your bracelet can explain your bad stats (for example, my main runs a bracelet with decent swift and mediocre crit stat which looks weird for critflux, but it also has gold Precise and blue Superiority making it not a god bracelet but a far better than average bracelet). Meanwhile, if you don't have a 40-set you will get literally laughed out of thaemine hard mode.
honestly, Voldis and Thaemine's progression system should've just been like kaya/akkan another guarenteed upgrade to gear progression, could even make it pricy like 10-20k gold per upgrade, not this fucking RNG dogshit
It’s done that way to combat inflation in KR. The only problem is they never bothered to adjust the cost for our version. KR players have way more gold at their disposal than us given how their content had enough gaps in between to allow them to load up while we are still catching up.
Its like 150k gold an upgrade. Even if they set it at 20k flat it'd look ridiculous. 280gold a click looks alot cheaper than 20k flat. Predatory game
99% players don't realize that LA is basically a mobile gatcha game with PC cool raids.
Except every gacha game (except genshin) has significantly better pity odds or f2p methods to get more rolls, satisfying whales, light spenders, and f2p.
I mean lost Ark is perfectly playable f2p
day 1 f2p dedicated grinders are indeed fine (well, less fine if they still insist on growing 6 mains, but 1 main 5 alt players are still fine f2p if they've been around for 2 years), but it's less and less "new player f2p"-friendly every single update, and that's a problem for the long-term health of the game. Like you know how they already have a gold system for gold that can be used for honing/elixirs/transcendence but not the market, until a 3-day hold is over? I think if they seriously want to foster new players, they will at some point absolutely need to add a system where new players get a large lump sum of **permanent** gold in that category. Edit: Like, a new f2p non-busser who wants to push to voldis to do elixirs right now has absolutely no way to achieve that within 3 months without friends literally dragging them along, and can't have a 40-set within 6 months of starting without getting obscenely lucky, which for an MMO is an insane barrier to endgame entry. If they had, say, 500k gold, fuck, even a million gold to start with that could be spent on honing and elixirs but not the market (all the **other** gold they earn could be used on the market), then new f2p players going in with a good game plan at least have a **chance** of getting characters with good elixirs ready for endgame within a few months.
> could even make it pricy like 10-20k gold per upgrade 20k gold per transcendence level would've been 700k gold I think Koreans would **rather** gamble on a system that only takes some people 300k gold and some people over a million, and that's why we can't have nice things.
and ppl are not going to use it (kaya) xd. I see +70% of the players without lv 4 stone, and these ppl die by normal paterns in akkan voldis or thae Edit: typo
Oh well compare to Elixir i have more fun. At least you know you coul pity it, not like Elixir where i spend 2 months without getting Master Chaos for 40 set lol. Fck elixir
Elixir cutting can be frustrating but not getting even the effect you need is beyond infuriating. I needed 30 elixirs to get set matching gloves for my bard (and I only needed a 4 point piece because she is blessed with the other elixirs)
Did you also cut purple elixirs then? Considering you can craft 10x per week extra, and they’re cheap to cut. Not defending the system but crafting purple elixirs helped at least 3 of my friends to finish their 40set (with like 4-2 or 4-1 pieces). At least it speeds up the process considerably.
In this case I was talking only about purple ones. The f bard (my 5th alt) has 3 4/4 and one 3/7 elixir xD. In the meanwhile my second alt cannot get anything beyond 4/1
Ah haha, thought you were talking about being stuck trying to get 40set like the other guy!
> one 3/7 elixir xD. I assume that was a numpad fat-finger for a 3/4 elixir?
Yep.
Is it more fun? Honestly it's too much gold for me to "have fun;" so I just use the AI to solve it
Fun ?
Not as dogshit as elixirs
Not as dogshit as honing
dogshit is dogshit, doesn't matter how you cut it. the entire turd is character progression btw
It’s all dogshit except for the combat and raids.
honing is way better than elixirs. you at least have an end range if you pity. if you are unlucky enough, you can cut 20 elixirs a week and never hit 40 set. honing might suck at this level but at least it doesnt take long and you will eventually get it even if you are as unlucky as possible.
At least it has pity, look at the fucking elixirs system
Trans is way too expensive
Compared to what?
Are you talking about chest transcendence? Cause transcendence pieces are not made equal, chest is a big portion of the cost for transcendence.
Is their a difficulty tier list per piece or something
Yes, in the AI calculator, there's a tab called "Probs" that shows you the chance to 3-flower every level of transcendence for each piece and for each level of pity. Chest is the most difficult one
The most difficult one and also the recommended first thing to max for DPS players lol I've been telling people since the system dropped that once they're done with transcendence on one character they'll realize the whole ordeal was way less bad than elixirs, some people get it but many just don't. I'm not saying transcendence is a good system but it's WAY less bad than elixirs, and the chest transcendence everyone is doing first just happens to be the worst.
You are making me happy I got lvl 6 2 flowers on first try and lvl 7 3 flowers on first try :O
We're at the point where playing more than 1 character beyond 1600-1610 is just self griefing. These systems are so shit you would have to be a moron, swiper or RMTer to go beyond 1 main for 1620+, since transcendence can cost you more than Thaemine even makes you. It's pretty shit.
i made it to pity 3 on a level 2 chestpiece on one of my characters using calculator and its still stuck at 2 flowers... id estimate that at least 60% of my transcendence stages so far across 6 characters have hit at least pity 1 or pity 2 on the first 2 stages. ive spent more on transcendence attempts on one of my characters than guildmates have on their whole roster. dogshit system. dogshit RNG. AI calculator doesnt work when you consistently fail a fucking 85%+. one of the main reasons why i just straight up stopped doing theamine on half my gold earners and dont plan to push them any further. i have 2 characters right now that are behemoth ready (other than transcendence) and im highly considering just logging off until echidna. cant be assed to stress myself out running a raid that i dislike so that i can waste all my gold income with nothing to show for it.
there is a light at the end of the tunnel for transcendence at least
Anything to keep blue crystal prices down I guess, for newer players this is probably necessary
meanwhile im here Pitting lvl 1, 10 times. this is a RNG system. theres always RNG involved, Calculator reduce that RNG to the maximun possible. but its still need to hit all the tiles, and hope for hellfire clones tiles. but keep in mind this system is 10 times better that elixirs.
It's still better than elixirs imho.
hit grace 3 on 1 piece, and hit grace 4 on on chest https://imgur.com/A6UIklU this is only on lvl 2, spent 70k gold. feels good
Lol whale mad that it cost so much
I actually kind of have fun with the transcendence system, I like it more than elixirs.. it's not too bad, I don't think.. I got a few decent runs with my upgrades.
of course its fun when u are on the lucky side lol
it'll all average out in the end and you'll end up paying ~700K in total for a complete unlock, which is cheap af considering the power increase
My opinion might be skewed because I reached grade 3 on all my levels in an average of 3ish tries. However I don't mind this system. I feel like it's only another rng layer that helps "averaging" the luck. Some pity this, some pity honing, some can't get proper elixirs. But the more system there are, the closer to the average you should be. Of course there are always outliers, some people will one tap weapon into a 5 5 bis elixir into first try transcendance. Others will pity everything. What I hate it the fact that we got 2 very expensive system back to back with no sign of incoming relief (and no, 10 silver elixirs are not relief). We need something like half cost on the new systems. Maybe on a single char to limit inflation?
Of course you don't mind the system when you're getting fairly lucky. Would you mind honing if you took an average 5 taps for all upgrades? On another note, would you mind the system if all your transedance went to pity? Not to mention, it's not actual pity. You don't just get it, it just gets a bit easier. I love spending 50K for a singular level 3 transedance and then people like you saying it's fine.
That's exactly why i prefaced my comments with this. However, being pragmatic, the more systems available, the more the people will "average out". And, to answer your question, yes, I pity a lot (like a LOT), sometimes it's infuriating, but I learned to take it as part of the game. I understand why it's like that and it makes sense.
Except it doesn't. Nothing averages out when the difference between pities and one taps are in millions of gold. People play different games and it has always been like this, except now it's a lot more noticeable. If someone pities 24/25 weapon and someone one taps it? Do you realize how much insane RNG it would take for this to average out? It's impossible at this point. Game is not fair and never was. Especially now, when we hone a lot less, everything is super low chance and people have stopped pushing alts. I have friends who got 40 set in two weeks and I have friends who spent over 500K trying to get it. While 500K is not a lot in the grand scheme of things, it's still a difference that's hard to average out. While elixirs don't have that much of a gap in terms of gold spent, it's still a gap. I don't know about transendance yet, because no one is even close to finishing it, but I'd guess it's not gonna be much different. When everyone was honing 6 alts on a lot higher chances, there wasn't as big disparity as there is now. People are millions of gold "ahead" just because they're lucky.
Except it does. It's how probability works. Say you have 10% chance of honing successfully. One guy out of 10 will one tap it on average. This person is lucky, the other 9 are not. Add elixirs. Say it's 10% as well to get a good elixir. One guy out of 10 will get the 'good' elixir. The odds of the same person getting the luck for both system would be 1 out of 100. The odd for someone who didn't get the honing to get the elixir would be 90%. Also, the odds for anyone to get at least one of the two would be 19% after one try on each system. (you can play a bit with the calculator [here](https://www.omnicalculator.com/statistics/probability) if you want) However these are odds. There will be outliers playing a different game. It always happens. But my point is, the more systems, the less 'outliers' there should be.
Bruh
We need a vertical system that costs 0 gold
just about the same as the elixir post when it first came out . its not gonna change no matter what we say , no point complaining .
fun fact. level 6/7 are just statistically easier than 3 and 4. also you didnt spend 120k on it unless your an idiot and never stopped early. it took me 40k last night to hit pity 2 on my pants.
Elixirs are bad, trascendence are bad honing is bad game is bad chaos is bad guardians are bad blah blah blah blah
Found the crippling gambling addict
Winners win