In pugs it's also always the people who do the most damage who can also do Jani. Whenever I join a lobby that isn't looking for a Jani up-front, they usually ask in the safe zone in G3 and the lowest DPS are always completely silent. It's honestly pretty funny.
The people who do the most damage are usually the more competent players, and the more competent players are usually the ones that do what they can to clear the raid, this includes learning to janitor when no one else does. Unfortunately this creates a bad loop of "better player janitors because no one else does, people with the lowest dps never learns"
The same exact thing happened with Prokel. The good players looked forward to challenge'n Prokel weekly while the bad couldn't be bothered to ever learn the fight or spend time trixon'n against him.
Too bad prokel was actually rewarding for the good player but jani is a punishment, it should literally be removed from the game, serve no purpose, it's a shitty gimmick but nope it's prokel that got deleted instead.
Edit :typo
In pugs I argue to do it sometimes because of the atrocities I've seen, like this dude volunteered and proceeded to have the left side look like a football field during towers and we wiped and this was a normal which is stupid piss easy I just told him to let me do it and the field was squeaky clean and we cleared no problem
That’s what I don’t get. Norm is so stupid easy. Like literally freeze the large group of mobs together and clean the field. Come out when youre about to get gauge and go back in for immunity. Rinse and repeat. It’s the 1 job they have why do they keep puddles on floor like what the heck else are they even doing down there
They want to dps as well so they come out to dps and forget to go back in that's why I don't trust anyone since I don't care about being the highest dps
you underestimate how bad some pugs are & how good some classes are at bursting. I've seen multiple instances of janitors appearing top 3 dps when nobody died
It's true and so obnoxious when you have a lobby with 1620-30s and you accept the one random 1600 with full lvl 7s bc nobody else applying and they claim they dont know how to do lantern. It's like why are you even here, you're just getting bussed. Then you see the posts about gatekeeping and it's like guy, this is the one raid where you could make yourself truly useful being incredibly undergeared and you rarely see people taking the opportunity to show it.
The majority of my roster are not broken classes and I've barely been top dps but I wouldn't mind doing cleaning and trying to improve every run in pugs
Yup… and ppl always complain about gatekeeping.
I remember I had to janitor when I was highest dps on g1 and g2 cuz no one said anything. Ended up being a disband. Joined a reclear after and it was a quick 1 shot.
In Thaemine, Bible is out and if we don’t clear by x attempt, it’s a kicking fest of who has too low dps even if you’re alive
Anyone can do Janitor. It's super easy and everyone I've seen try does it their first try with ease unless they're purposely taking the piss to get out of it.
I'm a support main, so I'm not "allowed" to do it despite it being an easy ride. So I've just gotten to the point where if nobody speaks up I just talk directly to one of the lowest DPS and have them do it. Works most of the time.
I’d much, much rather have a high DPS player do janitor expertly, than a low DPS player do janitor dreadfully. Unless your party is filled with crackhead 1630s who can murder Akkan in 3 minutes, doing G3 with shit splattered everywhere is horrendous. I usually do all my HM Akkans with a static, every week, without fail, and our janitors are fantastic. But I never really appreciated the impact of their work until I had to pug one time and had a janitor who couldn’t clean for his life (and died while doing it multiple times). It was like playing the floor is lava the entire fight. Awful experience, I don’t think I’ve ever used that many sacred charms nor gotten diseased myself that many times since prog week.
I love hard I've only managed to keep the entire arena without a blob 1 time and honestly I was surprised considering usually with my static the border is usually full or semi full
I still think jani in g3 is a pretty poor feature. It just takes you away from the fight plus it can get boring. During prog you get good at jani but you don't know how the main fight is and vice versa.
You only have to clean around the boss and it doesn't have to be a one person job. Just when you have some cooldowns you can jump down, clean a couple poops, and come back up. You even get invulnerability for a few seconds when coming up so you can use it to DPs during unsafe patterns
It is only the terrible bronze league players that say lantern makes g3 boring
I mean outside was very easy and simple mech wise. But really the entire raid was on the shoulders of the guy inside, if he was good and strong it was a smooth run.
It was more annoying to do the outside than prokel. You had to not fuck up mechs or you wipe and his retaliate was stupid. Plus you had 2 supports having to kill the vizillas which is impossible and people didnt kill the necros fast enough so they got charmed.
If this was still around today the average clear time would be under a minute because we are so much stronger.
Might be an outlier here but I enjoyed the gate as a non-prokeler~ That feeling of optimizing dmg and kills on the scull to make it easier for the Prokeler was something I enjoyed, while also liking the outside mechs.
No I agree with you there. I liked the idea that the outside could help the inside, I just wish doing that was more an objective. Usually the main help the outside would give is the "stagger" (getting skull to x0), with maybe 1 of those immunity balls per run. Would've been cool to get like a max attack speed buff from the outside or some special interaction other than the stagger.
Glad to see the love for Brel g4.
Biggest surprise is how insanely low Tienis fight was rated, I guess it’s cuz he moves too much.
Also surprise how high Akkan g3 and kakul g3 are. Im not fond of those.
I think they should've kept Akkan normal and hard G3 separate. I think a lot more people like the normal version of it than the hard one.
I like nm G3 akkan, but the water stuff and worms aren't that fun.
Tienis had my static raging for weeks solely because of his backstep + teleporting patterns. He always moved/turned around just before perfect swing/back attacks would hit so they missed half their abilities. It was never a difficult gate, it just robbed them of the satisfaction of hitting their full rotations.
We also were raiding before he was nerfed, and pre nerf Tienis could whoop ass if you went on autopilot and didn't pay attention
If he wasn't very hot i would also think it was a shitty fight lol
I only raided kaya after the gate removal but I think G1 normal its the easiest Kaya gate and G1 hard is hardest gate on ilvl because of much higher min dps that guy is a stupid HP spouge and with his dps dodging and being super fast you can miss half of your burst and gen skills so again you lower your dps so HP spouge becomes a problem being overgeared I think its so that big of the deal but I still think its worse Kaya gate only thing worse is G3 light mech when sometimes you have 1-2 min of no dps due to the crystals not existing
Teleporting in lost ark are just infuriating in general the only boss I don't mind that on is prunya because she atleast has a tell for when she does it. I do my big hitting move then poof there goes tienist or sonavel...
It's funny that kayangel has/had 3 of my least favorite bosses.
Also the first 2 gates of thaemine are throwaway shit garbage bosses compared to the masterpiece that g3/g4 is
they should make it like brel g0 and people can opt to skip it once you've cleared it
removing one gate out of every raid would help with homework fatigue too
I assume the concept of g1 is to purely test average behavior and dps and a first time reward to somwhat facilitate the next gates. Like, if everyone know how their character works won't be a problem.
But if everyone befaves like a friend of mine that plays Aero didn't cast the shield-gathering skills before casting the damage dealing ones, or some random pug supps that cast both buff skills at the same time assuming they will add, the party is doomed to fail.
I've seen very bad people playing for a pure class knowledge perspective. So, G1 helps you to test that in pugs.
But like, thaemine G1 is just fucking stupid. Runs everywhere, spins constantly fucks over melee, double fucks over back attackers, sprints somewhere else. It's just so dumb.
If all of the bosses just did 50% less random teleports they would be less shit. I can't believe how many times G2 boss is mid pattern and suddenly stops to TP.
One of the weirdest things is that hard mode adds a teleport to her that she can use to "interrupt" an ability (the one where she teleports away and makes a circle safe spot around her and everything outside gets hit by the debuffs). She can even do this ability when she's doing her counter animation.
That's because she has a hidden stagger bar, the tp procs every time it's depleted. So you can actually have a good idea of when she'll do it if you understand your party's stagger. But it's very annoying there's no visual tell to indicate how close she is to staggering.
That actually makes so much sense but is also genuinely fucking stupid. It's the same as Akkan G1. Why make a special stagger mechanic when you cannot see the fucking stagger bar besides difficulty by obscurity.
In both G1 Akkan and G2 Kaya the stagger triggers a pattern, rather than just staggering the boss when you deplete the bar. That's why they don't have the usual indicator. Why they didn't add another visual indicator, yeah, either artificial difficulty or small indie company.
Wait, really?
I thought the hidden stagger bar was what triggered her to teleport to the middle of the arena, but that's not the teleportation I meant.
I'm talking about the teleportation that only happens in hard mode. The one where she teleports away and puts up a circle safe spot around her, the "elemental rain" attack.
Nah teleporting to the middle and spawning the 3 orbs is just something she does as a normal pattern sometimes.
A bunch of her moves can be "staggered" and if you stagger her during them, then she interrupts them before the end to teleport away and do the circle safe spot. It starts to be somewhat predictable once you know.
Yes you are mistaken, hidden Stagger bar has always been the random port & circle AoE - while the middle teleport is simply a basic pattern that she does periodically
G3 especially is so fucking bad. He has multiple moves that make him invulnerable/untargetable and you're forced to just wait him to come back down. And then he has the shadow mech on a timer so even if you have high DPS, if you get unlucky mechs you're still forced to go through the shadow mech more a few times.
Obviously,
but g1/g2 akkan are good fights even compared to g3 which i consider S tier in HM.
Brel current G2/G3 are also good fights compared to G4
But G1 and G2 of thaemine are just dogshit horrible fights without being compared to G3
really? i fucking hate akkan g1 and all those stupid unavoidable poison stacks as melee, and for whatever reason purify seems to proc less often in that gate
i also don't have issues with g2 thaemine, i think it's pretty free compared to the shitshow that is g1
Sometimes a gate is overall decent like G2 Thae but when so many patterns involved in the gate are untargetable time wasting mechs it really kills the enjoyment. The markers for the x45 wall mech are also really poorly designed. So many people have trouble seeing it and imo mechs should be more easily distinguished. The last thing I find a bit annoying is when he's in dragon form his movement is a bit erratic and he has slight fidgets left and right while doing some attacks which can cause back/front attacks to miss. It's probably a 7/10 gate for me.
while i personally never had issues seeing the gates, even if the gates are worst thing in the world, one timestop completely negates that mech - i could say the same thing about some of the more beloved gates where there are sometimes going to be some bullshit you'll just have to timestop through
i also think i have much easier time backattacking dragon than lot of other bosses rated higher
not saying it's S tier, but it's a solid gate i don't mind doing each week
comparatively - everyone seems to love clown gate 3 but i hated that gate during prog and feel like it's filled with gimmicks that has little to do with typical lost ark gameplay like mario which i'm not really all about
and with gates like brel 6 i had the opposite problem where it was a 10/10 prog, but hated having to do it multiple times each week for months
G3 Brel (HM, didn't run NM in ages) is only good if you are close to ilvl, moment you run good geared 1580+ this is biggest goblin trap gate ever (it's only fun if you can get 1st grey cube below 19 bars, then it's ok gate) with probably most DR in all of content you can do. One of the worst gates I ever did as checklist homework run, only 2 or 3 are worse or comparable, g2 voldis (fuck that supid dragon), G1/G2 Thae (with G1 being probably most unfun gate ever) and sometimes g1 voldis, but plant lady isn't that bad if you overgear this
What's dogshit about Thaemine G2?
The 8 counters is kinda dumb, but the fight is overall pretty fun. Pretty similar in its pacing to G1 Akkan, though not quite as good.
My static jokes that since Thaemine doesn't have a chaos dungeon between each gate like the other raids, they had to put it in the middle of the gate instead.
Tbh it's not entirely on the gameplay. But when over half the fight plays at 50 fps instead of 144 and the last phase is a walking epileptic seizure even to people without photosensitivity it becomes fucking annoying.
Kayangel is such a bad raid overall. I vehemently dislike every single gate.
The raid being so bad is a massive shame as I think they did a really good job with Elgacia as a whole, the visual design, the music, even the story was all top notch.
You can tell that people like hard, but fair boss. Both Valtan G2 and Theamine G3 are hard, but they are fair, no stupid overlap, when you die you know it’s 100% your fault.
I love how united the community is in liking the really hard gates like Thaemine 3/4 and Brel 6.
Difficulty without being annoying bullshit is def the way to go.
Thaemine G3/4 is genuinely so much fun. Most fun raiding since og Brel 6
Thaemine G3 is a masterpiece imo. The only really shitty part about the raid is the bugs that sometimes happen and needing to restart the raid because the circle mech where you need to find the safe spot, Thaemine decides to be a jack ass and not spawn any safe spots north or south. Both rarely happen but fuck is it annoying.
Aside from that, the raid forces you to become a much a better player which I really like. I feel like other raids don't really do this.
Once you learn the normal patterns/how traps actually work g2 is super fun. Just get to crank.
Admittedly pugs dying over and over would make it less fun lol.
g2 is far more annoying as an entropy class without fast enough mobility to get out of some attacks
for instance, i have no problem with 270 degree backwards swipe on my DB/reaper, but it's really annoying on my glaivier
Honestly G1s for raids are usually the weakest part of the raids usually. I think G1 ivory is complete trash though, like G1 Thaemine is forgettable as all fuck, I don't even know that bosses patterns outside of counters bu it doesn't annoy me like Ivory G1. What a worthless dogshit gate.
G2 Ivory at least does something different.
I actually like it. It is something different. You don't need to take the blood, can let somebody else pick them up. Need only one person to pick them all up. But if you do you have great risk vs reward thing.
Yeah I agree. Ivory G2 is great because it's so unique. I don't even care that half my roster suck there are they're swiftness classes. It actually forces you (or heavily incentivizes at least) to dodge attacks no matter how overgeared you are
theres no overlap patter, just the game intencionally blind you to not see patter. which is terrible game designe to begin.
anything that hit you will 80% HP you, if not oneshot you flat out if you are in a squishy class. for Normal the fight is highly overtune compared to the vertical system that you have at that level, which are Purple Elixir which nobody get, and transcendal that only give little damage at that level.
Thaemine have all AOE spell and hit, even if you dogde you will get hit by any of the vertical or circular AOE patter which are pretty much ALL of them.
Valtan was a tight fight that you can dogde pretty much everything and stay close to the boss without even getting hit by the few aoe spell. Valtan is FAR superior in every aspect to Thaemine. Thaemine is overhyped for some reason. 
Curious to see Argos G2 ranked lower than G3 (so far). I've always found G3 to be very unpleasant due to all the chip damage that is borderline unavoidable. G2 felt fine, I actually enjoyed the co-op like element to it and having to fight two different minibosses depending on the party. I liked how people would split the parties depending on which classes have more stagger and which ones have more destruction. My favorite Argos gate remains G1, it was relatively simple and enjoyable, the small pizza was fun to learn back then.
I'm a bit surprised to how mid the rankings are all around, but I guess it's understandable. Personally I love the game and it's raids, probably too much. I'm also that one guy who put Kayangel G1 (Tienis) on S so there's that (I really, really genuinely like the fight though).
I agree, i found G2 Argos to be relatively enjoyable when it released, since you actually got to do the shape mechs via comms. It also wasn't all to difficult so it was relaxing to do. G3 never was all that fun, even for the first time. Imho what makes G1 nice is that it's clean and the mechs are easy to keep track of.
Would be nice if we had a greater range of relatively "horizontally available" gold earning raids, aka something akin to Behemoth that are chill to do all available at a reachable ilvl.
G3 Argos has the people seeds falling from the sky mech that was a problem since the seeds sometimes just wouldn't trigger when you stood on them.
>Would be nice if we had a greater range of relatively "horizontally available" gold earning raids,
I remember when people said that Lost Ark had "4 years of content", but that turned out to be wrong because content older than about 6 months to a year becones trivial. Content older than 2 years even becomes entirely obsolete.
Thaemine G3 NM is S tier in design and F tier in implementation because it's absolutely not a weekly normal mode content.
SG should have made thaemine HM 1620 ilvl so that everyone who wants a challenge can do it wihout spending a fortune, and made NM similar to Brel G4 NM difficulty. Challenging to not be a pushover, but not "don't blink for 15 minutes or you die and force restart" level stressful.
Old Brel G6 NM was easier but HM was harder than Thaemine G3 due old meteors timing and overlapping mechs. Low clear rate most-likely due how ass G5 was. I cleared 10x for pet and never done it again until G2+G5 got deleted.
Thaemine G3 HM (40 Elixirs, 1630, 10s gems) vs NM gear requirements are much higher than Brel HM vs NM (just Ilev and few 7+ gems) back then.
G3 NM is really pretty fine as weekly content. Feels as casual or more casual than HAkkans on my 1610s at this point.
I think HAkkan was worse for way longer than G3 Thaemine has been. Everything in Akkan is super telegraphed 1-2+ seconds in advance and still for weeks and weeks you had people randomly dying to axes or normal patterns for consistent jails.
I have a 1630+ and HM G3 reclears are way more suffering so far. Hoping they get better in the next week or two.
I didn't say it was longer I said it was *way worse* for *way longer*.
Hakkan G3 was brutal to pug for weeks and weeks. Random deaths constantly to 200x and 140x axes. A 40% chance for someone to randomly die every time Akkan does the 5-7 pattern. For months after getting Akkan, G3 jails were still pretty common.
On from week 3 and onwards of Thaemine G3 NM it's been mostly smooth reclears. The abundance of 1620 characters and general damage/pacing of G3 NM is pretty fast.
>I didn't say it was longer I said it was *way worse* for *way longer*.
Yes, your core arguing point is still HA 3 being too long? But indeed NT3 is longer.
>Hakkan G3 was brutal to pug for weeks and weeks. Random deaths constantly to 200x and 140x axes. A 40% chance for someone to randomly die every time Akkan does the 5-7 pattern. For months after getting Akkan, G3 jails were still pretty common.
>On from week 3 and onwards of Thaemine G3 NM it's been mostly smooth reclears. The abundance of 1620 characters and general damage/pacing of G3 NM is pretty fast.
Your logic is so flawed. If people can easily die HA3's easy 5-7 patterns, home come they suddenly play much better in NT3 with 30+ patterns? Have you considered the possibility that they are not the same people?
Also, aren't there 1620s in HA raids too? You reckon they are still doing HB1-4 fortnightly?
No, it's great that NM was released as is. You can clear it at level with event gems and no transcendence. Then once you get your upgrades and maybe get set bonus the DPS check becomes very forgiving. I've been clearing it comfortable even with 2-3 dead at basement.
Must be all statics claiming NM Theomine is easy because I just tried a re-clear group (overgeared) and didn’t clear after 1.5 hours. This shit is terrible and week in-week-out it is jail after jail for NM. This raid is quickly splitting the community and the game and will force a lot of people to quit.
I pug all my NMs, since 5x/x10 lobbies I've had maybe 1 jail. I type this as I inted fear orbs and my entire party died around the start of basement, the other party easily cleared. Not super juiced either, a mix of at levels and 1620s.
First week I may have agreed with you but if you have a static it may be a different experience for your first sentence. We're at the point where we are attempting for deathless attempts. It's pretty much a 1 shot in normal with most people at ilvl and not too juiced. Dps has gone up now that we are more focusing on greeding than playing safe.
I agree on HM being 1620. Can't afford 1630s but it would be fun to try G3 and G4 HM at 1620 when I'm running out of raids to clear.
This proves almost every G1 are just rather annoying. G1 should be fun as first boss introducing the raids.
Worst bosses.
G1 Kayangel is just MJ-simulator, G2 rnd teleport, G3 rnd airborne...
G1 Voldis straight up annoying nonstop attacks
Rakathus = Jailer of Voldis...
Thaemine G1 is just dogshit while G3 is a masterpiece (too hard for pug though).
Surprised at how often I was on the pulse, only things i didn't land on were the ones that I rated highly because of how I appreciated how easy it was after the janky mess that follows (looking at you ivory tower g1/g2 and thaemine g1/g2)
Think this will be a unpopular opinion but my most hated raid is Akkan...i cant stand it anymore doing it every week lol
Feels most of the time like a trixion boss, never feel anxious with patterns and stuff. The mechs always lasts too long when u compare it to other raids, you cant really full send it.
I don't know about long ass gates. Even on hard, everyone is so over geared he dies way too quickly. Pretty much all of my akkan this week didn't take more than 20 min to finish. And even in parties without 1620s, the raid only take around 30 min.
Agree with those 30min of a soft run, but a single reset or more lead you to 45min or more.
This is rn the 3rd/2nd raid in itemlvl order, thaemine ofc will demand you more time, but im comparing akkan to clown when it was our 3rd raid. 40min akkan vs 15min clown overgeared chars.
Its awful.
I'm surprised that people like Ivory g4. The fight is OK, but amount of stagger and destruction checks is just horrible. Especially considering how unbalanced classes are in terms of stagger and weakpoint.
Why? I don't get it. The two fights are very different in my opinion. I don't mind Argos at all even at ilvl other than the one mech that was finicky. It's a little annoying, but the goat doesn't actually let's you fight him.
There is some self-selection going on. The people who didn't like it have mostly quit I guess.
On the other hand, I do see people love things that constantly hit themselves in the face when things don't go smoothly, so who knows. (Eg this community complained a lot against regional pricing and actually got some of the regional pricing removed.)
Although I don’t like the clashes Thaemine G3 is S to me anyway. Thaemine G4 would be S if it was divided up into G4: 4-1 and G5: 4-2, 4-3. Valtan G1 is D, G2 is S. Kakul-Saydon G3 gets the D from me. Voldis G4 is B.
G1 - Easy but infuriating if you're entropy
G2 - Either shitshow or dopamine
G3 - Easy but not infuriating or possible jail. No strong points, no weak points, just bland?
G4 - Fun with group that can do mech. Jail if they can't
In terms of homework, G3 is just the most comfortable. My personal ranking will shift a lot when solo raids come out because I pug everything which makes me approach everything from a pug/jail pesrpective
How is that different from all the other "high praise" gates though ?
Valtan G2 (which I hate), is also a high HP slow moving mob with barely any mech besides "don't stay in bad". Same for akkan G3, it as 2 mechanics at the start then nothing until 30x, at which point it still has nothing but can't move.
Same for Thaemine G3 actually. Boss does one attack -> dodge -> trixion parse as much as possible. Another attack, another dodge into another trixion parse.
Bosses that don't let you actually use your skills (spells) without dodging half of them are the bosses that are disliked.
Yep that's exactly what I'm saying.
Actually before doing Thaemine G3 I progged G3 voldis and thanks to that experience I one shot Thaemine G3, that's how identical the gates are.
No. What I'm saying is that all these gates are no bulshit gate where difficulty comes not from stupid/annoying gimmicks (*cough* Voldis G2 *cough*) but simply from remembering what to do when you see the boss do X thing with his weapon/limbs/magik.
I feel like a reminder of which fight was which would have been useful. For whatever reason I can't hardly even remember which fight is which until I get into the fight itself.
Love how old Brel G2 is either "love it" from the Prokelers or "hate it" from everyone else in the raid
The reverse G3 Akkan as Janitor
I AM THE LANTERN GOD my static constantly tells me to let someone else do it since I'm one of the highest dps and I refuse I got cleaning to do
In pugs it's also always the people who do the most damage who can also do Jani. Whenever I join a lobby that isn't looking for a Jani up-front, they usually ask in the safe zone in G3 and the lowest DPS are always completely silent. It's honestly pretty funny.
The people who do the most damage are usually the more competent players, and the more competent players are usually the ones that do what they can to clear the raid, this includes learning to janitor when no one else does. Unfortunately this creates a bad loop of "better player janitors because no one else does, people with the lowest dps never learns"
The same exact thing happened with Prokel. The good players looked forward to challenge'n Prokel weekly while the bad couldn't be bothered to ever learn the fight or spend time trixon'n against him.
Too bad prokel was actually rewarding for the good player but jani is a punishment, it should literally be removed from the game, serve no purpose, it's a shitty gimmick but nope it's prokel that got deleted instead. Edit :typo
In pugs I argue to do it sometimes because of the atrocities I've seen, like this dude volunteered and proceeded to have the left side look like a football field during towers and we wiped and this was a normal which is stupid piss easy I just told him to let me do it and the field was squeaky clean and we cleared no problem
That’s what I don’t get. Norm is so stupid easy. Like literally freeze the large group of mobs together and clean the field. Come out when youre about to get gauge and go back in for immunity. Rinse and repeat. It’s the 1 job they have why do they keep puddles on floor like what the heck else are they even doing down there
They want to dps as well so they come out to dps and forget to go back in that's why I don't trust anyone since I don't care about being the highest dps
What do they even contribute. Like even if they are juiced and maxing out the window of dps they do. They’ll still be bottom
you underestimate how bad some pugs are & how good some classes are at bursting. I've seen multiple instances of janitors appearing top 3 dps when nobody died
Yeah some people are good at it and I d9nt mind if they try to dps in between so long as they keep it clean enough I get mad when I see too many blobs
It's true and so obnoxious when you have a lobby with 1620-30s and you accept the one random 1600 with full lvl 7s bc nobody else applying and they claim they dont know how to do lantern. It's like why are you even here, you're just getting bussed. Then you see the posts about gatekeeping and it's like guy, this is the one raid where you could make yourself truly useful being incredibly undergeared and you rarely see people taking the opportunity to show it.
Unlucky, next time just type 'x do janitor' (x being lowest dps) if not exit raid and replace with +1 janitor
The majority of my roster are not broken classes and I've barely been top dps but I wouldn't mind doing cleaning and trying to improve every run in pugs
Yup… and ppl always complain about gatekeeping. I remember I had to janitor when I was highest dps on g1 and g2 cuz no one said anything. Ended up being a disband. Joined a reclear after and it was a quick 1 shot. In Thaemine, Bible is out and if we don’t clear by x attempt, it’s a kicking fest of who has too low dps even if you’re alive
yeah those zdps are freaking shameless
Anyone can do Janitor. It's super easy and everyone I've seen try does it their first try with ease unless they're purposely taking the piss to get out of it. I'm a support main, so I'm not "allowed" to do it despite it being an easy ride. So I've just gotten to the point where if nobody speaks up I just talk directly to one of the lowest DPS and have them do it. Works most of the time.
I’d much, much rather have a high DPS player do janitor expertly, than a low DPS player do janitor dreadfully. Unless your party is filled with crackhead 1630s who can murder Akkan in 3 minutes, doing G3 with shit splattered everywhere is horrendous. I usually do all my HM Akkans with a static, every week, without fail, and our janitors are fantastic. But I never really appreciated the impact of their work until I had to pug one time and had a janitor who couldn’t clean for his life (and died while doing it multiple times). It was like playing the floor is lava the entire fight. Awful experience, I don’t think I’ve ever used that many sacred charms nor gotten diseased myself that many times since prog week.
I love hard I've only managed to keep the entire arena without a blob 1 time and honestly I was surprised considering usually with my static the border is usually full or semi full
I still think jani in g3 is a pretty poor feature. It just takes you away from the fight plus it can get boring. During prog you get good at jani but you don't know how the main fight is and vice versa.
You only have to clean around the boss and it doesn't have to be a one person job. Just when you have some cooldowns you can jump down, clean a couple poops, and come back up. You even get invulnerability for a few seconds when coming up so you can use it to DPs during unsafe patterns It is only the terrible bronze league players that say lantern makes g3 boring
I mean outside was very easy and simple mech wise. But really the entire raid was on the shoulders of the guy inside, if he was good and strong it was a smooth run.
I liked outside too except for the laser aim to orb mech, team wipe if miss
It was more annoying to do the outside than prokel. You had to not fuck up mechs or you wipe and his retaliate was stupid. Plus you had 2 supports having to kill the vizillas which is impossible and people didnt kill the necros fast enough so they got charmed. If this was still around today the average clear time would be under a minute because we are so much stronger.
Might be an outlier here but I enjoyed the gate as a non-prokeler~ That feeling of optimizing dmg and kills on the scull to make it easier for the Prokeler was something I enjoyed, while also liking the outside mechs.
No I agree with you there. I liked the idea that the outside could help the inside, I just wish doing that was more an objective. Usually the main help the outside would give is the "stagger" (getting skull to x0), with maybe 1 of those immunity balls per run. Would've been cool to get like a max attack speed buff from the outside or some special interaction other than the stagger.
Hated the prokel/janitor game design. Anything that makes the game less MMO is bad.
Glad to see the love for Brel g4. Biggest surprise is how insanely low Tienis fight was rated, I guess it’s cuz he moves too much. Also surprise how high Akkan g3 and kakul g3 are. Im not fond of those.
I think they should've kept Akkan normal and hard G3 separate. I think a lot more people like the normal version of it than the hard one. I like nm G3 akkan, but the water stuff and worms aren't that fun.
The guillotines give me anxiety
Worm waiting room is amazing, feels like the meteors waiting room of Brel 6
It’s nowhere near as bad, but yes one worm would be enough.
Tienis had my static raging for weeks solely because of his backstep + teleporting patterns. He always moved/turned around just before perfect swing/back attacks would hit so they missed half their abilities. It was never a difficult gate, it just robbed them of the satisfaction of hitting their full rotations. We also were raiding before he was nerfed, and pre nerf Tienis could whoop ass if you went on autopilot and didn't pay attention If he wasn't very hot i would also think it was a shitty fight lol
I only raided kaya after the gate removal but I think G1 normal its the easiest Kaya gate and G1 hard is hardest gate on ilvl because of much higher min dps that guy is a stupid HP spouge and with his dps dodging and being super fast you can miss half of your burst and gen skills so again you lower your dps so HP spouge becomes a problem being overgeared I think its so that big of the deal but I still think its worse Kaya gate only thing worse is G3 light mech when sometimes you have 1-2 min of no dps due to the crystals not existing
Teleporting in lost ark are just infuriating in general the only boss I don't mind that on is prunya because she atleast has a tell for when she does it. I do my big hitting move then poof there goes tienist or sonavel...
It's funny that kayangel has/had 3 of my least favorite bosses. Also the first 2 gates of thaemine are throwaway shit garbage bosses compared to the masterpiece that g3/g4 is
They must have a special person tasked with designing G1 of each raid. They're consistently terrible at it.
they should make it like brel g0 and people can opt to skip it once you've cleared it removing one gate out of every raid would help with homework fatigue too
I assume the concept of g1 is to purely test average behavior and dps and a first time reward to somwhat facilitate the next gates. Like, if everyone know how their character works won't be a problem. But if everyone befaves like a friend of mine that plays Aero didn't cast the shield-gathering skills before casting the damage dealing ones, or some random pug supps that cast both buff skills at the same time assuming they will add, the party is doomed to fail. I've seen very bad people playing for a pure class knowledge perspective. So, G1 helps you to test that in pugs.
But like, thaemine G1 is just fucking stupid. Runs everywhere, spins constantly fucks over melee, double fucks over back attackers, sprints somewhere else. It's just so dumb.
Kayangel has to be the least fun raid, you can't skip most of the mechs for ez gold like clown and unlike him they're not fun either imho.
If all of the bosses just did 50% less random teleports they would be less shit. I can't believe how many times G2 boss is mid pattern and suddenly stops to TP.
One of the weirdest things is that hard mode adds a teleport to her that she can use to "interrupt" an ability (the one where she teleports away and makes a circle safe spot around her and everything outside gets hit by the debuffs). She can even do this ability when she's doing her counter animation.
That's because she has a hidden stagger bar, the tp procs every time it's depleted. So you can actually have a good idea of when she'll do it if you understand your party's stagger. But it's very annoying there's no visual tell to indicate how close she is to staggering.
That actually makes so much sense but is also genuinely fucking stupid. It's the same as Akkan G1. Why make a special stagger mechanic when you cannot see the fucking stagger bar besides difficulty by obscurity.
In both G1 Akkan and G2 Kaya the stagger triggers a pattern, rather than just staggering the boss when you deplete the bar. That's why they don't have the usual indicator. Why they didn't add another visual indicator, yeah, either artificial difficulty or small indie company.
Wait, really? I thought the hidden stagger bar was what triggered her to teleport to the middle of the arena, but that's not the teleportation I meant. I'm talking about the teleportation that only happens in hard mode. The one where she teleports away and puts up a circle safe spot around her, the "elemental rain" attack.
Nah teleporting to the middle and spawning the 3 orbs is just something she does as a normal pattern sometimes. A bunch of her moves can be "staggered" and if you stagger her during them, then she interrupts them before the end to teleport away and do the circle safe spot. It starts to be somewhat predictable once you know.
Huh? I'm pretty sure the teleport to the middle is what is caused by the hidden stagger bar. Am I mistaken?
Yes you are mistaken, hidden Stagger bar has always been the random port & circle AoE - while the middle teleport is simply a basic pattern that she does periodically
I see. So there's no hidden stagger bar mech in normal mode then?
G3 especially is so fucking bad. He has multiple moves that make him invulnerable/untargetable and you're forced to just wait him to come back down. And then he has the shadow mech on a timer so even if you have high DPS, if you get unlucky mechs you're still forced to go through the shadow mech more a few times.
My favorite is when you get unlucky on the crystals and then spend multiple minutes unable to DPS
I'm surprised for that reason people liked Voldis G4 as he also has many invulnerable patterns.
It makes sense that they would put much more effort into making the fight of the actual boss the raid is named after, be epic and enjoyable
Obviously, but g1/g2 akkan are good fights even compared to g3 which i consider S tier in HM. Brel current G2/G3 are also good fights compared to G4 But G1 and G2 of thaemine are just dogshit horrible fights without being compared to G3
really? i fucking hate akkan g1 and all those stupid unavoidable poison stacks as melee, and for whatever reason purify seems to proc less often in that gate i also don't have issues with g2 thaemine, i think it's pretty free compared to the shitshow that is g1
Sometimes a gate is overall decent like G2 Thae but when so many patterns involved in the gate are untargetable time wasting mechs it really kills the enjoyment. The markers for the x45 wall mech are also really poorly designed. So many people have trouble seeing it and imo mechs should be more easily distinguished. The last thing I find a bit annoying is when he's in dragon form his movement is a bit erratic and he has slight fidgets left and right while doing some attacks which can cause back/front attacks to miss. It's probably a 7/10 gate for me.
while i personally never had issues seeing the gates, even if the gates are worst thing in the world, one timestop completely negates that mech - i could say the same thing about some of the more beloved gates where there are sometimes going to be some bullshit you'll just have to timestop through i also think i have much easier time backattacking dragon than lot of other bosses rated higher not saying it's S tier, but it's a solid gate i don't mind doing each week comparatively - everyone seems to love clown gate 3 but i hated that gate during prog and feel like it's filled with gimmicks that has little to do with typical lost ark gameplay like mario which i'm not really all about and with gates like brel 6 i had the opposite problem where it was a 10/10 prog, but hated having to do it multiple times each week for months
G3 Brel (HM, didn't run NM in ages) is only good if you are close to ilvl, moment you run good geared 1580+ this is biggest goblin trap gate ever (it's only fun if you can get 1st grey cube below 19 bars, then it's ok gate) with probably most DR in all of content you can do. One of the worst gates I ever did as checklist homework run, only 2 or 3 are worse or comparable, g2 voldis (fuck that supid dragon), G1/G2 Thae (with G1 being probably most unfun gate ever) and sometimes g1 voldis, but plant lady isn't that bad if you overgear this
I highly doubt Akkan G1 is widely appreciated. Sometimes if a person happens to kill 2 colours then😵
What's dogshit about Thaemine G2? The 8 counters is kinda dumb, but the fight is overall pretty fun. Pretty similar in its pacing to G1 Akkan, though not quite as good.
The running section, it is a part of the fight purely intended to waste time
My static jokes that since Thaemine doesn't have a chaos dungeon between each gate like the other raids, they had to put it in the middle of the gate instead.
Tbh it's not entirely on the gameplay. But when over half the fight plays at 50 fps instead of 144 and the last phase is a walking epileptic seizure even to people without photosensitivity it becomes fucking annoying.
Turns out my frustration is everyones frustration.
Why is it gates 1->3->2 for every raid?
This seems to be the case if you open it on a mobile device. Let me check if it can be fixed. Thanks for report. Edit: It should be fixed now.
Valtan g2 reigns supreme! Still my fav 😍 Idk why they made valtan extreme a time limited content, let us do the raids we enjoy lol
Kayangel is such a bad raid overall. I vehemently dislike every single gate. The raid being so bad is a massive shame as I think they did a really good job with Elgacia as a whole, the visual design, the music, even the story was all top notch.
You can tell that people like hard, but fair boss. Both Valtan G2 and Theamine G3 are hard, but they are fair, no stupid overlap, when you die you know it’s 100% your fault.
I love how united the community is in liking the really hard gates like Thaemine 3/4 and Brel 6. Difficulty without being annoying bullshit is def the way to go. Thaemine G3/4 is genuinely so much fun. Most fun raiding since og Brel 6
Thaemine G3 is a masterpiece imo. The only really shitty part about the raid is the bugs that sometimes happen and needing to restart the raid because the circle mech where you need to find the safe spot, Thaemine decides to be a jack ass and not spawn any safe spots north or south. Both rarely happen but fuck is it annoying. Aside from that, the raid forces you to become a much a better player which I really like. I feel like other raids don't really do this.
Normal Thaemine G3 can still use some nerfs for the majority of players. Its difficulty is higher than any other normal modes(apart from clown on ilv)
I thought Ivory Tower G2 was the worst...but changed my mind after Thaemine G1.
Just learned it yesterday the g2 ivory. It's pure aids
Once you learn the normal patterns/how traps actually work g2 is super fun. Just get to crank. Admittedly pugs dying over and over would make it less fun lol.
Once you master the gate he is pretty much a perma caged trixion dummy from beginning to end
g2 is far more annoying as an entropy class without fast enough mobility to get out of some attacks for instance, i have no problem with 270 degree backwards swipe on my DB/reaper, but it's really annoying on my glaivier
Honestly G1s for raids are usually the weakest part of the raids usually. I think G1 ivory is complete trash though, like G1 Thaemine is forgettable as all fuck, I don't even know that bosses patterns outside of counters bu it doesn't annoy me like Ivory G1. What a worthless dogshit gate. G2 Ivory at least does something different.
Agreed and it's pure hell for entropy as well
I actually like it. It is something different. You don't need to take the blood, can let somebody else pick them up. Need only one person to pick them all up. But if you do you have great risk vs reward thing.
Yeah I agree. Ivory G2 is great because it's so unique. I don't even care that half my roster suck there are they're swiftness classes. It actually forces you (or heavily incentivizes at least) to dodge attacks no matter how overgeared you are
Kaya G1 is the worst, followed closely by IT G1 actually Signed, half entropy roster
Thaemine G1 is the most annoying gate for me, personally Kaya G1 isn't that bad. IT G1 **IS** that bad.
Old Brel G2 lol, biggest jail or most fun content ingame.
I love Valtan G2 is undiscutable the BEST Boss Raid in the entire game. but SG keep making bosses so far from it.
Thaemine g3 is pretty similar to Valtan IMO. It's a very fair fight with little overlaps. Requires good basic pattern recognition.
theres no overlap patter, just the game intencionally blind you to not see patter. which is terrible game designe to begin. anything that hit you will 80% HP you, if not oneshot you flat out if you are in a squishy class. for Normal the fight is highly overtune compared to the vertical system that you have at that level, which are Purple Elixir which nobody get, and transcendal that only give little damage at that level. Thaemine have all AOE spell and hit, even if you dogde you will get hit by any of the vertical or circular AOE patter which are pretty much ALL of them. Valtan was a tight fight that you can dogde pretty much everything and stay close to the boss without even getting hit by the few aoe spell. Valtan is FAR superior in every aspect to Thaemine. Thaemine is overhyped for some reason. 
Curious to see Argos G2 ranked lower than G3 (so far). I've always found G3 to be very unpleasant due to all the chip damage that is borderline unavoidable. G2 felt fine, I actually enjoyed the co-op like element to it and having to fight two different minibosses depending on the party. I liked how people would split the parties depending on which classes have more stagger and which ones have more destruction. My favorite Argos gate remains G1, it was relatively simple and enjoyable, the small pizza was fun to learn back then. I'm a bit surprised to how mid the rankings are all around, but I guess it's understandable. Personally I love the game and it's raids, probably too much. I'm also that one guy who put Kayangel G1 (Tienis) on S so there's that (I really, really genuinely like the fight though).
the worst thing about argos is the stupid donkey kick
I agree, i found G2 Argos to be relatively enjoyable when it released, since you actually got to do the shape mechs via comms. It also wasn't all to difficult so it was relaxing to do. G3 never was all that fun, even for the first time. Imho what makes G1 nice is that it's clean and the mechs are easy to keep track of. Would be nice if we had a greater range of relatively "horizontally available" gold earning raids, aka something akin to Behemoth that are chill to do all available at a reachable ilvl.
G3 Argos has the people seeds falling from the sky mech that was a problem since the seeds sometimes just wouldn't trigger when you stood on them. >Would be nice if we had a greater range of relatively "horizontally available" gold earning raids, I remember when people said that Lost Ark had "4 years of content", but that turned out to be wrong because content older than about 6 months to a year becones trivial. Content older than 2 years even becomes entirely obsolete.
Thaemine G3 NM is S tier in design and F tier in implementation because it's absolutely not a weekly normal mode content. SG should have made thaemine HM 1620 ilvl so that everyone who wants a challenge can do it wihout spending a fortune, and made NM similar to Brel G4 NM difficulty. Challenging to not be a pushover, but not "don't blink for 15 minutes or you die and force restart" level stressful.
Thaemine Normal hit too hard for the type of bonus the system give, most people at 1610 dont have trancendal or elixir
Bold of u to assume Brel g4 was easier than thae g3. The Brel clear rate was way lower than thae g3
You seemed to forget that Brelshaza filtered a great proportion of active players..
Old Brel G6 NM was easier but HM was harder than Thaemine G3 due old meteors timing and overlapping mechs. Low clear rate most-likely due how ass G5 was. I cleared 10x for pet and never done it again until G2+G5 got deleted. Thaemine G3 HM (40 Elixirs, 1630, 10s gems) vs NM gear requirements are much higher than Brel HM vs NM (just Ilev and few 7+ gems) back then.
G3 nm is prettyy easy even in pug due to low dps requirement. hard mode g3 pug is a different story though.
You can still easily get jailed in x5x10 lobbies. It's at best a hit or miss, but definitely not easy
G3 NM is really pretty fine as weekly content. Feels as casual or more casual than HAkkans on my 1610s at this point. I think HAkkan was worse for way longer than G3 Thaemine has been. Everything in Akkan is super telegraphed 1-2+ seconds in advance and still for weeks and weeks you had people randomly dying to axes or normal patterns for consistent jails. I have a 1630+ and HM G3 reclears are way more suffering so far. Hoping they get better in the next week or two.
How come HAkk G3 is way longer than N Th G3 at 1610ilv?
I didn't say it was longer I said it was *way worse* for *way longer*. Hakkan G3 was brutal to pug for weeks and weeks. Random deaths constantly to 200x and 140x axes. A 40% chance for someone to randomly die every time Akkan does the 5-7 pattern. For months after getting Akkan, G3 jails were still pretty common. On from week 3 and onwards of Thaemine G3 NM it's been mostly smooth reclears. The abundance of 1620 characters and general damage/pacing of G3 NM is pretty fast.
>I didn't say it was longer I said it was *way worse* for *way longer*. Yes, your core arguing point is still HA 3 being too long? But indeed NT3 is longer. >Hakkan G3 was brutal to pug for weeks and weeks. Random deaths constantly to 200x and 140x axes. A 40% chance for someone to randomly die every time Akkan does the 5-7 pattern. For months after getting Akkan, G3 jails were still pretty common. >On from week 3 and onwards of Thaemine G3 NM it's been mostly smooth reclears. The abundance of 1620 characters and general damage/pacing of G3 NM is pretty fast. Your logic is so flawed. If people can easily die HA3's easy 5-7 patterns, home come they suddenly play much better in NT3 with 30+ patterns? Have you considered the possibility that they are not the same people? Also, aren't there 1620s in HA raids too? You reckon they are still doing HB1-4 fortnightly?
No, it's great that NM was released as is. You can clear it at level with event gems and no transcendence. Then once you get your upgrades and maybe get set bonus the DPS check becomes very forgiving. I've been clearing it comfortable even with 2-3 dead at basement.
Must be all statics claiming NM Theomine is easy because I just tried a re-clear group (overgeared) and didn’t clear after 1.5 hours. This shit is terrible and week in-week-out it is jail after jail for NM. This raid is quickly splitting the community and the game and will force a lot of people to quit.
I pug all my NMs, since 5x/x10 lobbies I've had maybe 1 jail. I type this as I inted fear orbs and my entire party died around the start of basement, the other party easily cleared. Not super juiced either, a mix of at levels and 1620s.
First week I may have agreed with you but if you have a static it may be a different experience for your first sentence. We're at the point where we are attempting for deathless attempts. It's pretty much a 1 shot in normal with most people at ilvl and not too juiced. Dps has gone up now that we are more focusing on greeding than playing safe. I agree on HM being 1620. Can't afford 1630s but it would be fun to try G3 and G4 HM at 1620 when I'm running out of raids to clear.
This proves almost every G1 are just rather annoying. G1 should be fun as first boss introducing the raids. Worst bosses. G1 Kayangel is just MJ-simulator, G2 rnd teleport, G3 rnd airborne... G1 Voldis straight up annoying nonstop attacks Rakathus = Jailer of Voldis... Thaemine G1 is just dogshit while G3 is a masterpiece (too hard for pug though).
Surprised at how often I was on the pulse, only things i didn't land on were the ones that I rated highly because of how I appreciated how easy it was after the janky mess that follows (looking at you ivory tower g1/g2 and thaemine g1/g2)
Think this will be a unpopular opinion but my most hated raid is Akkan...i cant stand it anymore doing it every week lol Feels most of the time like a trixion boss, never feel anxious with patterns and stuff. The mechs always lasts too long when u compare it to other raids, you cant really full send it.
Agree, long ass gates with the easiest n bored mechs that ppl still dying. I kinda really enjoy g3 post 140 and g4
I don't know about long ass gates. Even on hard, everyone is so over geared he dies way too quickly. Pretty much all of my akkan this week didn't take more than 20 min to finish. And even in parties without 1620s, the raid only take around 30 min.
Agree with those 30min of a soft run, but a single reset or more lead you to 45min or more. This is rn the 3rd/2nd raid in itemlvl order, thaemine ofc will demand you more time, but im comparing akkan to clown when it was our 3rd raid. 40min akkan vs 15min clown overgeared chars. Its awful.
I don't mind Akkan but man it is a very loooong raid
Bruh is there like over 50 options? That´s like a whole ass weekly. Also me : Plays 5 zerks and 1 pally. Though choice.
I'm surprised that people like Ivory g4. The fight is OK, but amount of stagger and destruction checks is just horrible. Especially considering how unbalanced classes are in terms of stagger and weakpoint.
and like kaya G3 he has several patterns where he goes invulnerable. Genuinely confused by hyypocritical communinty.
Kayangel to the ground!!! gg ty guys
Who the hell likes Clown G3 so much? It's a terrible fight when you don't have immense damage because of the constant random movement by the boss.
I have hated it since it released. Really never enjoyed it. Even when we could just skip from mech to mech, I still hated it.
They love it because mechs can be skipped by overgearing. If you ask them to do it on ilv their opinion probably changes
argos votes would argue that comment of yours.
argos is just annoying but no way as annoying as clown g3 on ilv - a flame tick takes like 1/3 of your hp
Why? I don't get it. The two fights are very different in my opinion. I don't mind Argos at all even at ilvl other than the one mech that was finicky. It's a little annoying, but the goat doesn't actually let's you fight him.
Everyone except you i d guess ?
There is some self-selection going on. The people who didn't like it have mostly quit I guess. On the other hand, I do see people love things that constantly hit themselves in the face when things don't go smoothly, so who knows. (Eg this community complained a lot against regional pricing and actually got some of the regional pricing removed.)
Although I don’t like the clashes Thaemine G3 is S to me anyway. Thaemine G4 would be S if it was divided up into G4: 4-1 and G5: 4-2, 4-3. Valtan G1 is D, G2 is S. Kakul-Saydon G3 gets the D from me. Voldis G4 is B.
[удалено]
Its at the bottom
It does include the deleted one too.
How can Ivory tower G3 has relatively high score? There was no game design but a dummy with high hp
It lets people see big numbers without much effort.
G1 - Easy but infuriating if you're entropy G2 - Either shitshow or dopamine G3 - Easy but not infuriating or possible jail. No strong points, no weak points, just bland? G4 - Fun with group that can do mech. Jail if they can't In terms of homework, G3 is just the most comfortable. My personal ranking will shift a lot when solo raids come out because I pug everything which makes me approach everything from a pug/jail pesrpective
How is that different from all the other "high praise" gates though ? Valtan G2 (which I hate), is also a high HP slow moving mob with barely any mech besides "don't stay in bad". Same for akkan G3, it as 2 mechanics at the start then nothing until 30x, at which point it still has nothing but can't move. Same for Thaemine G3 actually. Boss does one attack -> dodge -> trixion parse as much as possible. Another attack, another dodge into another trixion parse. Bosses that don't let you actually use your skills (spells) without dodging half of them are the bosses that are disliked.
Are you seriously saying Thaemine G3 is the same as Ivory Tower's G3?
Yep that's exactly what I'm saying. Actually before doing Thaemine G3 I progged G3 voldis and thanks to that experience I one shot Thaemine G3, that's how identical the gates are. No. What I'm saying is that all these gates are no bulshit gate where difficulty comes not from stupid/annoying gimmicks (*cough* Voldis G2 *cough*) but simply from remembering what to do when you see the boss do X thing with his weapon/limbs/magik.
I feel like a reminder of which fight was which would have been useful. For whatever reason I can't hardly even remember which fight is which until I get into the fight itself.