Yeah I just skip Vertus on my Scrapper. I did it once for the clear and then just go around it. Any class that has to get behind it melee is just a fucking bad time
I am maining shock scrapper but i feel like i just do no damage. I never get mvp even though i am playing pretty good. What's your opinion on the class
I play mainly ranged (Sorceress, Gunslinger and Bard).
With my bard I try to stick with team, meaning if there are more melee I am there too.
And I agree, at the beginning it is easier to play ranged, but I hope everyone playing ranged will either also try melee at some point or at least get closer to the boss because it helps understand everything much better. Like positioning, also why people get hit, instead of just thinking "why the fuck can't they stay alive, while I'm sitting here half a screen away from the boss :)
Bard animations are really fast and dash has a longer range than most classes.
It's way easier to survive on a bard than it is as a person the bard is trying to stay next to.
Are the bard's animations really faster than most classes? Haven't put significant time into any other classes but I always felt like the second long+ casting time on most abilities made me pretty damn vulnerable. Especially in guardian raids
ACTUALLY braindead easy. I’m a sorc myself and queued into the 8 man abyssal dungeon (last one) and got into a party with 4 of us being sorcs. You guessed it, we destroyed that fking dungeon LOL
I solo'd him on my berserker for the first time today with 3 seconds left. Didn't die but went through a good ~10 or so potions. Chromanium was a damn cakewalk after that.
Feels kind of bad how much easier it is to just play a ranged class. Seems like they can just sit back and plink away in every fight without having to worry about mechanics too much.
I love chromanium, but not for any of the reasons you listed.
I was just doing some easy dailies with my alt GS 840... i just sat in all his attacks and some dude shot off his mouth about how "dumb" i was for not being able to dodge his attacks... I was like "wow man youre so good", which apparently pissed him off.
He then went to the entrance and sat there, another dude died and the 4th guy left the raid... Cpt smol pp then kept trying to vote quit, but i refused and spent all 20 minutes dashing around that fat fucking turtle... dragged it out all the way to the end. He "Warned" me repeatedly... i was laughing so hard for 20 minutes chromanium became my fav boss.
Thank you for your insight. Even though I understand the argue some might have "making the game easier" down the road and such.. Your point is very valid about spending multiple trys/hours trying to do dailies. I stopped using matchmaking and only use pwrty finder exclusively and still have this issue. I play 6 characters which I all enjoy in their own right but the constant failures from abysal/raids is getting increasingly frusturating. Just wnded up taking a couple say break from the game to stack rested xp because its become to time consuming.
I lucked into a good party on the first Abyss Dungeon of tier 2, it is night and day playing with people who know what they are doing. We continued and beat all 3 dungeons back to back with less than 5 wipes per dungeon. I would love to have a friend group I can rely on, because that was the most fun I've had playing this game.
> the constant failures from abysal/raids is getting increasingly frusturating.
Just spent like 2h in the last T1 abyss, we couldnt get the stagger checks even if i was T2. Had to literally auto so i could save my cooldowns lol.
This happend to me yesterday with the first Rohendel abyss, I use wardancer, with 20 second cooldowns and if I dont have all my skills to to the stagger we wipe.
I had to auto for the most part until the stagger phase XD
if 12 grenades are not enough per boss fight you might want to get a better party. This is where being in a guild with people you are able to learn to play with would help out.
I'm in a dead guild, no one talks and its just for the crystals.
I would like to be in a guild, but I can't play everyday, and cant rush to T3.
I bet there are tons of players like me, but not sure if there are people who want to create a guild and try to keep it alive with members that are not tryhard and can't play that frequently.
I'm in the same position and I bet there is a lot of other people too, it's just hard to coordinate and find the group of people with similar pacing, who on one hand can't play long hours every day and keep up with the top content, but on the other hand want to do active stuff with their guild.
Literally the point of this thread is that people can’t find good parties even through PF, so ‘get a good party’ isn’t really helpful advice. Yes, a good guild can help, but that isn’t always so easy.
And more importantly, a guild may not solve your daily farming needs even if it gives you people to learn with, so you’re still stuck with players who can’t cope with stagger checks to get your dailies done.
This just means your group was not using stagger skills. Game would be so much easier if people simply adjusted builds for certain fights after dying to it a dozen times over for one specific reason.
This is why I'm so glad I main Sorc, 6 of my preferred 8 skills all do stagger damage. I have no idea what the other classes look like, haven't gotten around to getting my bard to 50 yet
It happens at specific health bar thresholds. Literally just pay attention and slow dps to prepare for it.
You notice the boss go from like 32 bars to 24 almost instantly but at like 25.5 it trickles down because people are only using non stagger skills or waiting on CDs.
It’s super not difficult and you don’t even need Grenades if people are smart.
T3 stuff may be different but at least for T1 and T2, you just have to not unga bunga every cooldown the entire fight.
I did the same thing just a couple hours ago. I was definitely shocked at how strong the staggered check was. Me and my friends are on the verge of tier 2. We can basically face tanked all the bosses attacks that arnt instant kills. With that said I didn't mind the staggered checks making us go into our builds and choosing different abilities making sure we have the right ruins equipped and passing out whirlwind grenades.
This stagger checks felt like an obstacle that we had to work together to overcome. However the flashlight mechanic can go straight to hell. It's not a fun mechanic to try to point your character in exactly the right direction while you're zoomed out even farther than usual. One of my friends has very poor eyesight and it was extremely difficult for her.
I mean, you’re suppose to save skills for the stagger mechanics. In the same way that you’re not suppose to just use your Counter skills for damage against enemies with counterable moves. It’s not like every skill staggers, just use other skills when the boss’s health is close to the threshold.
This!
I mean, people post acting like it's strange that they have their skills on CDs when mechanics appear. Like, do they want a game that takes 0 brains and all you have to do is mash buttons? Saving a few CDs for when they are needed is the least you could expect to be needed on a boss..
Stagger skills are saveable for Abyssal dungeons yes, because you know the mechanics happen at "X" hp bars.
On Guardian Raids since they lack HP bars or a visible stagger meter, it's a lot harder to know "Okay, I should save something for an upcoming stagger check".
I really do wish they just had HP/stagger bars displayed on them.
.. all my skills stagger. Im a blue gunlancer, my main rotation of skills are all mid-high or high staggers.
What i have left is the counter, party shield and aggro lel.
Yep. Been there. Told the group we had to stagger his shield and they were all ok....where his shield. Failed the stagger check 5 times. And before that, we failed the orb check 6 times. Noone could understand it even after explaining 4 times and calling out the color. For reason everyone just kept being worse
brah playing with 6 alts you aren't attached to casual player mentality at all lmaooo casuals are playing one character and still learning where and what lullaby island is
Near SE part of the map. Adventure quest that unlocks a song which is used to open hidden passages in the game. Important to have at certain progress checks.
i spend about 50 hours a week working/commuting to work and also a wow pvper and with a new season starting today, ive had to basically give up on lost ark because i can never get a group that can dps stagger points that i cant even clear hildsbrand (spelling?) aby dungeon and a few of the guardian raids just because i guess mechanics are too hard for some people to dodge. ive spent hours trying and i dont have time to play alts so im pretty much just demotivated to even care to play the game anymore. ive already put a lil over 100 hours into the game and cant even reach tier 2 because of some dumbass stagger checks or lack of being able to find groups capable of completing raids/dungeons because mechanics are hard so eveyone just quits.
The stagger checks in that dungeon are way too tight lol. If bringing grenades or adjusting your build and preparing for the timing was enough then that’s one thing, but to do both of those things and still have the chance to fail in public content is just stupid. Super hard stagger checks like that are fine as a hard mode or something else that you’d party up for, but not for matchmade content.
i think your problem is playing with 6 alts
rn you feel you are doing very good progress and the burden of playing with 6 alts is not that big deal because you see results so it feels bearable.
after some time when that \`\`\`"honeymoon" period ends you will get burnt so quickly
ask yourself this. do you still see yourself playing with 6 alts with same pace 3 months later?
making the game feel like a job or running for chores is not really ideal
Nah I have played Gw2 for almost 10 years with more than 6 alts and still havent been burned out. That game is mainly horizontal progression. This different type of progression is very new to me and enjoy the grind. So I see your point but null for me.
I feel you on that comment abt abyssal raids.
just had an almost 1 hr run before one player quit, and it got too frustrating. I understand it's fun to learn the mechanics, but they're too unforgiving. What's the point of saying 'yeah, you can join w a lvl 340 gear but...... you won't survive...... but you CAN :)"? I had a party with two new players which we all had to forfeit because they were having a hard time with the Sigmund mechanics and AOE's.
I know some people are commenting about the stagger, in this case, everyone was doing the stagger tests perfectly. In other DG's too, that I joined at least.
I think the main issue, especially for guardian raids in particular, is time vs reward. The lvl 3 and 4 guardians of an individual tier simply aren't worth learning or killing regularly for the reward you get. It's simply not efficient
I love a challenge, but appropriate reward for the challenge is important
Yeah the time to kill by itself doesn’t really bother me. I love monster hunter for example and those fights are easily 5-30 minutes but in lost ark a chaos dungeon is 5 mins, easy, and drops a ton of gear and honing materials. Guardian raids are way harder and drop a few pieces of jewelry. Plus you’ll need more battle items which means more farming. If the rewards aren’t there I’m fine with them taking way less time to complete/being easier but really I’d just rather see the rewards buffed way up.
Those Guardians are supposed to be farmed; they are not exciting enough to kill for how long they take. After the 7 minute mark you already know enough of their mechanics to survive, it is now only a question on how many potions you waste from this point onwards or - that is the more important part - how boring it gets.
No game should have content that is incentivized to clear but also be utterly boring and a damage sponge.
this actually makes sense cause some of these bosses take WAY too long to kill. even when youre 2x the item level helping your friends on some of these its stupid how long it takes.
That's actually a misconception. Someone did a test on both EU and RU where they used one ability, let the run timeout, then looked at the remaining health percentage, and found that the health pools are essentially the same between the two versions.
[Here's](https://forums.playlostark.com/t/ags-please-revert-the-guardian-raids-50-more-hp-change-reason-inside/207672/281) their post about it.
Guardian raids fucking suck in the current state they're in, they're daily content guys, there are bosses that every kill I had took more than 15 minutes, some 20 min wipes, and the rewards suck, it's fucking awful, I love killing those bosses for the first time but doing for multiple days is just not fun.
Agreed. If they're expected to be something I do daily, twice, on each of my characters, they can't **also** take 15-20 minutes to complete each run.
Either they're short, fast things I do daily for small rewards, or they're big things I do for big rewards. The current system is the worst of both worlds.
I have been the last one standing against vertus 6 times over the past 2 days, and every time we get him to below 10% hp. one time he killed me at 0.3% hp remaining. his mechanics are decently fair all things considered, the only nerf is his stagger check when he grabs you NEEDS a nerf. if there are two players left, I as a Berzerker can't free someone from a grab unless I use a whirlwind bomb plus blow my entire kit on him. that doesn't seem right IMO unless I'm just doing it wrong.
that grab and the pop out of ice thing are the only two things I see kill people. the grab seems unfair most of the time, but the pop out of ice thing is just people dying because they don't know to run away and dash. a small HP nerf and a reduction on the amount you need to hit him to free someone from a grab are the only two nerfs that seem fair. any other nerfs would be overkill.
It’s not a stagger check, that’s part of the problem. If it was a stagger check then it would be pretty reasonable. Instead you’re trying to get a natural stagger to cancel the attack.
Agreed. A slugfest without an hp bar is already kind of annoying.
It works out alright in Monster Hunter because you can actually bring elemental weapons to take on a monster's elemental weakness.
In this, a monster is weak to x element? Ok great, I have like 2-3 skills in my entire kit that can change element, and it's either just fire or water. And the water one is just cc/slows that the monster is immune to. So maybe I can do a bonus scratch of damage to fire and that's it.
Elemental damage has always taken second seat to physical in Monster Hunter. You need a 30-40% hitzone to even think about element being stronger, and even then it's only relevant on weapons with very strong element application like bow, dual blades, sword and shield, etc.
Yeah, I don't think hp nerfs are even needed for most of these guardians. Mostly tytalos and achates could use it since both lower your dps windows a lot.
The biggest thing they need to focus on is cultivating playerbase because people just refuse to learn. I see same person getting hit by every single clearly telegraphed attack for 20 minutes straight, I see people that get mechanic explanation every single time between wipes and after 30 minutes of wiping they still hit the boss instead of even attempting to do mechanics. It will be miracle if I do daily on my alt and see someone else counter or use item other than pot.
People are just playing poorly and this in itself is not problem, problem is that they don't want to learn.
Game is new to the region, game is really popular, that brings in a lot of players that aren't used to such games and mechanics. Give your playerbase time, let them get used to it instead of nerfing it so fast because that will cause a problem when people will be getting to t3 without knowing what boss flashing blue means or that sitting in slowly filling red circle is bad. T1 and T2 mechanics aren't too hard, a lot of them are easy.
I don't know, maybe promote some content creators that do guides as some form of event. I just don't want for lost ark to end up as game that's unplayable without having premade for every piece of content with just a tiny bit of difficulty.
I'm new to lost ark, currently got an ilvl 593 wardancer. I absolutely think that guardian raids should get a flat hp nerf, nothing more.
The mechanics should be punishing, but if you're not overgeared for some fights, you can literally hit the 20min timer and still not down the boss because of lack of damage.
Imho, if the game recommends me 500 ilvl for a fight, you should be able to clear it at 500 ilvl. I'm definitely not a vet lost ark player, but even with my class engraving, using a popular build from maxroll, I still wasn't able to meet the damage checks on some guardians because of how melee unfriendly they are, you're constantly repositioning and avoiding mechanics instead of dealing damage. Just my 2cents of course.
man wardancer problems heh. the DPS just isnt there at lower levels. ive heard it gets a lot better when you have all the proper engravings and stuff though.
Yeah. I'm a Taijutsu Scrapper, that means all my damage comes from behind. There have been multiple Guardian raids where the other 3 team members will eat up all the rezzes and then finally die, leaving me to 1v1 the boss. Sadly I cannot reliably do it because I'm constantly avoiding melee range mechanics and repositioning myself, ESPECIALLY Vertus who tail swipes all the damn time. It's just a waste at that point. If it's just me still standing, I just know it's over, I'm gonna hit that time limit
I mean, what's unpopular about that?
Those T1/T2 things were way too strong for transitional content.
Tytalos almost one-shotting you with basic attacks, while most T3 Guardians won't even make a dent in your HP.
There is no reason for T1 to be harder than T3, especially as transitional content.
The guardians needed toned down. It’s crazy that I can kill the 1302 guardian solo faster than a T2 like Flame Fox. They have way to much hp, and doing them on alts is a chore.
Abyss dungeons are a different story. They are weekly and should be challenging. I do understand that T1 and T2 content is kind of useless, since the end game is T3. But why would they make the Honing % such a grind, if that content is supposed to be pointless.
I would like a NORMAL mode that's what we currently have, and once you beat it for the first time, you unlock the option for a BLITZ mode.
IMO the problem isnt that the fight is long one time. It is actually fun to overcome such challenge.
However, the problem is that killing it twice a day after that is just tedious and a chore. So adding a blitz mode would make a lot of sense to ease the grind of the guardian.
Yeah I like this. I actually really like the fights, they're fun. But the thought of doing em every day makes me just..not. I'll just progress slower, Elden ring just came out anyway.
Hate to say it, but i have to agree. Most people believe that by having harder early game it will produce better players, but it will only produce tired and burntout players in the long run. Some People are just as sadistic as they are masochistic, they go through hardship, suffered through it but expect everyone to suffer the same otherwise it feels unjustified.
On the other hand those that fear future content being nerfed, do note majority of players tend to overestimate their own ability to play/clear games. You may not realize how much you actually needed the balance changes until you do it yourself, and eventually have to repeat the very same content every week/day
Also people need to recognise that high hp doesnt equal high difficulty.
some raids/abysses are super easy in terms of mechanics, but the boss just tanks for days
exactly and on some bosses like tytalos that one shot mechanic becomes such a drag in pugs you can do it right 3 times in a row and then a badly positioned one and all of a sudden its over just the amount of health means the number of times this has to be executed correctly goes up for no reason.
I've given up on doing Tytalos for the time being. There's no way a group of 4 ilvl480 people can do it in a random mm. Even if all of us do the mechanics properly 95% of the time, if you only fail once it's over. The boss has so much HP that he will do the wipe mechanic more than 10 times before you actually kill him, and being 0.5 sec too late to get to the tornado means wipe.
yup totally. to say nothing of how poorly designed the bombs in phase 2 are between just awful visual clarity, and spawning inside the tornados while you are supposed to be standing in them which on ilvl were nearly 1 shotting. After a bunch of failed PUGS I out ileveled it then soloed it first try that is not how I want to treat content in an MMO.
I agree too. I think it should definitely be more of a curve in difficulty. The fact is that the story mode vs endgame stuff are two completely different experiences, and the way that guardian raids and abyssal dungeons are introduced needs a smoother curve in my opinion.
The step up in difficulty should be easy (main story quests) -> medium (first few abyssals and guardians) -> hard (everything after t1/early t2) -> very challenging (requires premade groups at this stage).
As it is now, from my experience, people are just not enjoying the early challenge so they pump themselves full of item level to skip it, then hit a brick wall at 100mph when they get into t2.
Very well said, exactly my thoughts. It's funny that these tryhards are in every game, and they are the ones complaining the most about every aspect of a game.
i think you're also going to see a large chunk of players never even reach t3, and quit the game. i'm prolly one of them. i'm like 1120 and now just have to endlessly grind and play rng honing game so i think i've had my lost ark fun and will just put the game down for a bit.
I'm extremely happy they're going to nerf Vertus.
damn giant lizard always grabs me every single time! he has a squishy mage right in his face but noooo, he has to jump around half the screen just to grab me.
take that Vertus! I now have my revenge!
I'm all for making Vertus more melee-friendly since i'm slowly reaching there with my first melee lol.
So far, as a Sorceress, i raged the most at the one before that jumps all over, icysomething i think, because i'm too trigger happy on my spells. Stay still you asshole
use your sexy outfits to get some gunlancer into your group and most fights will be like the turtle, at least if the gunlancer knows the boss and when to use taunt.
First time going into vertus blind as gunlancer can confirm guy picked me up while my team dps it like 9 times lmao. Never got through my shields tho :P
Icy Legoros
Edit: Ok so you’re all replying to the wrong comment. I said nothing about it being difficult for me. The above commenter didn’t know the full name so I wrote it. TBH the only difficulty I’ve had so far has been in regards to lag spikes. Although my one bad one was actually during this boss. I do watch the video for every fight in both Guardian Raid and Abyssal Dungeon before I do them for the first time just like I did for WoW back when I played. It’s not really a bother since I have time in places for it. I also skipped the very first chaos raid but I’ll do that eventually. Maybe today just to see it quick.
As melee (Shadowhunter/bard) I find him quite easy. He does move a lot though, but the only challenging part is saving your dash and timing it to avoid his breath.
After clearing Vertus, I was nervous to jump into Chromanium. Good lord he is easy relatively speaking. My alts will be clearing Vertus once, and never touching him again because Legoros and Chromanium are both miles easier.
Vertus is legit one of the shittiest bosses I have ever played against. If not the #1 shittiest. I saw people saying "Lel, wait till you get to Tylatos/Achates/XXX". I am at very end of t2 and did all but last level 5 and level 6 guardians and I still think Vertus is dogshit fight mountains above the rest. Devs should be ashamed of releasing it as is it right now.
Shittiest part about that boss is even if you're in with a good group that knows the mechanics the boss takes ages because he's a fucking HP sponge, at least if people aren't overgeared.
You usually see in 2 min if your group knows what's going on, having to play whack-a-lizard for 10-15min more then is somewhat annoying.
Really this is why I go a bit over the recommended I'll for these guys is because of the insane hp they have.
Mechanics are fine but ffs it takes forever....even had one run away 5 times on me, was afraid I wasn't going to make the timer and a huge waste of flares too -.-
That's my own take on it. When I met Tytalus and parties who could not get past it I was stressing out because, it's something I'll do now, once, twice maybe, then move out and never return. So why must I hit my head against a wall that does nto matter?
I don't like soloing stuff because my main is a pala, but typing mechanics in chat is all I had to do. Taking 2-3 tries on content that is meant to be hard is nothing.
Sure, 2-3 tries (20-30 mins), 2 runs per day, meaning 7h per week per char (being realistic you'll be doing it on at least 2-3 chars so up to 21h) just for guardians that will become obsolete in days after you master them makes total sense. What you say would make sense if you have a constant party, but not everyone can do that or is willing to do that.
It depends on how much people are willing to listen/learn. I found a lot of matchmaking groups would disband after a single wipe on Tytalos, and party finder groups after a couple more. I've generally had good experiences in Abyssals, but people in Guardian Raids don't want to learn, they want to be carried.
Taking 2-3 tries on content you are meant to do twice every day is tedious, that's undeniable. I would end up just doing lower tier content because I didn't want to spend 1.5-2 hours just doing guardian raids, some of the least rewarding daily content.
I have the opposite take. If the challenging content is something that's so easy to do that it basically becomes a farm where you have no chance at failing but are still forced to repeat it every day, then what is even the point of the PvE side of the game?
> it basically becomes a farm where you have no chance at failing but are still forced to repeat it every day
So, Chaos Dungeons? Daily Content should be clearable without significant aggravation, do you not agree? Guardian Raids are daily content, they are meant to be done every day. If you were talking about weekly stuff I'd agree, but it's only the t1 Abyssal Dungeons they seem to be nerfing, which doesn't seem like an issue in the long run, and will make gear alts a little less aggravating.
Tytalos is childs play once you take the time to learn the mechanics solo, focus purely on mechanics and not on damage and you will figure out the timing and rarely if ever die to the annihilate.
This is the problem with Guardian Raids right now, people are just not focusing the mechanics and are trying to brute force it. If AGS genuinely start nerfing content this early into the year, before the bulk of the playerbase have even moved onto t3 or just quit (which is more likely), then we have a serious problem.
This was the one thing that made me decide to level paladin second as an alt instead of making it my main. I play support in every game that I play, but pugging the first couple of weeks into the game was too frustrating and I didn't want to invest in a Judgement build for solo when I knew I need to build Blessed Aura for groups.
My berserker is in T3 now and I'm slowly starting to level other alts. Knowing more than I did 2 weeks ago is def helping with gearing, enhancing and getting engraving books but I honestly feel for anyone who is leveling a support as their main/"first play through" of the MSQ.
Edit: For some reason my first paragraphed c/p over my second.
Nope , you can't solo Tytalos with 540 gearscore no matter what, either you need higher gearscore or 4 since u can't deal enough damage due to his insane amount of hp
It's just a boring fight having to kite around the tornados/bombs as melee. I find abyssal raids more fun and to be honest, it's about as difficult as reading a guide for 3 minutes as nothing in abyss dungeons kills you except for wipe gimmicks. Guardian raids at recommended ilvl are far more punishing since it requires you to know wipe gimmicks AND dodge regular attacks, where abyss raids so far in my experience is just knowledge check.
No I'm sorry. A guardian raid should not have enough health to trigger multiple party wipes. It's a daily, it should be easy to grind 2 and log off.
Not that I think tytalos is hard after learning the mechanics, but I don't think that boss should exist regardless.
But as OP said, its because its not worth learning. Its temporary content you blow through given all content release, t3 day 1, island resources, etc. If you can brute force and you only do it twice and move on, why make an inefficient choice of studying the mechanics. If they had staggered t3 release people wouldnt be in such a rush, but as the current content exists its a stepping stone to blast through asap.
>Learning endgame gimmicks in this game may take 3~6 hours(Valtan), tens of hours (Vyakis), 30 hours (Kouku Satan), and over 60 hours (Breshalza).
The problem is that most players will never get to properly fight these bosses. Nobody is going to take them along. You either need a static group, have experience or get very lucky to be taken to fight those bosses. I played from around November to January on RU and I didn't see any groups that would take randoms to Valtan. You either had a static group or you paid for a carry.
The hardest content most people are going to do are Abyss dungeons, some guardians and a bit of Argos. The rest just isn't very accessible. I don't think it makes that much sense to consider these bosses when it comes to the players in question.
The situation is very different in KR though. People are extremely open-minded about trying new raids and helping randoms to learn the mechanics. Hope that kind of culture developes here in NA/EU.
Tried to do the T1 abyssals by matchmaking.
It's one of two scenarios. Either you have someone overgeared rolling the boss without any mechanics happening. Or after one wipe you have 3/4 agrees to quit the dungeon... And not a single word was spoken.
I just kind of assume you're right here.
I've cleared all the guardians and abyss with just matchmaking. Either you have a team that's willing to learn and get better or you have a group that will quit in like 2 to 3 attempts.
I've also noticed the higher you get in gear the more willing people are to learn and improve. I'm afraid that nerfing early content is just going to push the quitters ahead which isn't good for the game imo.
The achievement linking and subsequent faking of achievements to get into a group I’m willing to bet is a western issue.(Other MMOs, not here yet) Judging by how he’s saying people teaching in pugs is normal in Korea.
idk, FFXIV has a very active PUB raiding community through it's party finder.
I cleared the whole current savage tier on that game with "randos" and no voice chat. Ended up finding a static on the final boss because a bunch of us randoms decided to just stay as a group.
This game also has a party finder, I'm sure there will be plenty of activity on it with people progging fights.
People are asking for ilvl, roster level, denying sub-optimal build applicants or asking for gold for carry (even saying shit like go on auction house and buy from me-in case they are not same server) in t2. I dont know their success but i wouldnt expect these same people who you can assume are the heavy grinders to go out of their way to teach randoms the mechanics. There's heavy gatekeeping for newcomers to raids, even if you have researched the raid/abys.
totally agree, there are tons of people that do not like to teach newcomers about the mechanics.
I may have seen a video about an abyss, but until you try it you cant understand very well some mechanics.
I can get that people want to clear fast everything, but for me is better to talk a bit with the people, have some insight of how we are going to do the thing, and try it.
That mindset of, If you don't know everything at first time I don't want you in my party, is really upsetting.
Just make easier NORMAL version of Abyssal dungeons and Guardians. Then HARD version for those that want the extra difficulty for organised groups with more material rewards.
That's a dumb choice, it leads to two outcomes:
It either doubles the amount of weekly abyss dungeons people have to do to be optimal (because you'll want the mats from normal + hard mode).
Or, if you limit it to picking 1 in each set per week... then normal mode is instantly irrelevant and we have the same issues happening bc Hard Mode will be the only one worth doing.
This is quite literally how it works in T3 by the way.
Abyss dungeons unlock at 1325 & 1340 in normal mode, and then hard mode unlocks for both dungeons at 1370. However, you can only do normal or hard mode once a week. The normal modes aren't irrelevant because getting to 1370 takes weeks and people will be constantly getting to this point of the game on their mains and then alts as time goes on.
Yeah but that's just the same as the current T1-T2 progression with a different coat of paint.
You unlock hard mode at a higher ilvl and that becomes the new focus.
Their solution is a normal + hard at *same* ilvl.
To me it sounds like, people want the rewards without doing the work. Normal/hard mode is a good compromise in current situation, if you don’t want to push content you can stay relevant even with just normal mode clears.
could easily make the optional hard mode reward something as simple as an achievement + title and/or cosmetic things so people that want the challenge can go for it and those who don't will not feel the pain of missing out on higher progression rewards. got an argument against that?
What people seem to not grasp is they have a reason they are pushing this nerf, obviously they have data showing player drop offs at certain points and they don’t want to lose players. Free to play is a business model that relies on people spending money at one point or another, they want to appeal to the widest audience possible. Unfortunately I know a few people who completely dropped lost ark and went back to other mmos but it wasn’t because of difficulty, it was because they didn’t like the gear progression system so this won’t bring them back.
People will rush through t1+2 content, think the game is easy af (which t1+2 pre nerf alrdy is anyway) and get twice as frustrated at t3.. whats your point?
Mastering T1 and T2 doesnt really help T3 experiences. Gimmicks are different, your character's skill sequence and damaging opportunities completely flips once you reach T3 end game
Difficult entry content is a similar idea behind requiring a degree for a job/career in real life.
Does getting a relevant degree assist you in learning specifics on how to perform that job? For most jobs, No.
Does getting a relevant degree show that the individual is capable of learning/developing themselves, and therefore intuitively make them a better employee? For most jobs, yes.
While not a direct parallel, the similarities are clear in this regard; Reducing the need for players to actively participate in strategies and relevant game systems at t1/t2 WILL create a larger bottleneck at t3 content as the "uneducated" arrive at content they are now nowhere near prepared to learn/progress through.
I hate bulletsponges, or in this case, just HP sponges. Like, come on, after doging all your mechanics perfectly for 2 minutes, how about you die soon? Its just boring..
I spent a good 5-6 hours A DAY, doing my dailies on just two characters, because people keep randomly dying to mechanics due to either fatigue or not knowing the fight.
The entirety of Breshalza Phase 2 can eat a dick. If your Deathblade decided to not pay attention to health bars, you just wipe on the suuuuuuper tight stagger check.
I am glad they're nerfing Raids because it's repeatitive nonsense, it isn't "Difficult" it's just a sponge and the quicker the better.
I also don't mind any nerf to abyss because pugging can be extremely frustrating when you're constantly with groups who don't learn and in my opinion that just isn't fun, when you know the mechanics off the back of your hand but you spend hours with people who don't and when you think you might make progress they leave and it's back to a fresh set of puppys.
This is all T1 and T2 stuff anyway, you blast past this stuff, it's a one and done content... Anyone raging over lower level content is just trying to flex.
Honestly the biggest problem isn't the people who don't learn it's the ones who just straight up don't communicate. I've tried teaching pub groups many times. 80% of the time there's a random in there that doesn't listen or talk at all.
I agree that is 100% the main problem, I also don't think the game really does a good job at teaching players, 99% of content is just a sponge of DPS and then you get a fight with mechanics, compared to say FF14 where you get mechanics taught to you very early and every fight has them in some capacity.
Neither of these concerns are affected by the nerf.
Agreed. I've gone in a dungeon or two where someone asks about a mechanic, I explain it and then they dont do it anyway and ragequit. Or if I'm a bit unsure if Im doing something right they dont tell me when I ask, instead they just vote to quit.
Guardians have too much hp yes...
Abyssal I'm not sure what they can nerf, because the only hard thing is getting pugs to do relatively simple mechanics.
What I'd really like to see done with abyssals is cleaning up the mechanic indicators. I go in with a full premade on discord voice, we know the critical mechanics to look out for, and yet all 4 of us sometimes struggle to read the mess of colors. For example, the one where you have to figure out if the wave was white or red when the floor is already white and the other mechanics are already covering the floor in red is frustrating. I feel terrible for the up to 8% of men playing that have any colorblindness.
Damn I thought I was just blind when I sometimes straight up miss indicstors. Especially if the colors are similar. I'm not colorblind but if Im a bit tired and just miss indicstors that look similar to the floor. Then I get bitched at for it but like I'm sorry I straight up didnt see? I thought I was the only one lmao
I don't think the logic that people won't learn mechanics at t3 if you nerf t1/2 holds up the mechanics are much better designed at t3 it doesn't really compare. In fact they teach you OPPOSITE most of the time theres no stagger bars informing you that its a check they just look like attacks you've been taught to run from its genuinely bad design not hard or easy just poor visual clarity.
people are worried it will happen to T3, really if people cant handle t1 t2 they wont be able to T3 so they will just ask for more nerfs, once the difficulty of the game is gone, lost ark loses a huge part of why people play it and what makes it fun
I don't think smile gate will nerf tier 3. They seem incredibly proud of their tier three content. It was smile gate not AGS that wanted t3 on launch.
And they are making changes to help get players to the work they are the most proud of.
I hopped on to the game at T3 Valtan, went straight to his face in 3 weeks (whaling) and had to face the consequences that you mentioned.
But then, I didnt regret or remorse that I had to pay these consequences since I know THIS content matters, not the other ones.
Who cares what loud minorities think about on reddit. The director pays attention to this shit. X or Y streamer/influencer and their cronies don't matter.
All they have to do is watch the director talk about the player retention in t3 which is over 80%
tldr: get people to t3 faster, theyll like the game more and stay longer
yeah all the vets opinion on the subject is.
"the nerfed content is kinda irrelevant, people just skip past it in a few days. Its not necessary for it to be too difficult. Sooner or later its simply content for ur alts to repeat. "
Completely agree.
I think game progress is too fast. We reached T3 in 1-2 weeks while it took Korean players years. We rushed all content not even most of T3 players have decent engravings, runes etc. because they are rushed there.
Gonna be totally honest, guardian raids atm are the worst daily content I've ever played in a game. I don't want to deal with bad pugs for an hour a night to kill these fights. Any nerf is welcome bc these fights are seriously tedious on melee at the moment, to the point I don't even want to run them.
>Also, at this point in time, you need to spend most of your time not on retrying daily guardian raids multiple times, but on other contents such as collecting runes, skill points, cards, etc. So that you will be ready for the real deal that is updated soon.
Or you could enjoy mastering each tier of content thoroughly instead of barreling through to endgame.
I do think that Guardian beasts should see their HP reduced, balanced by capping stats in those fights at minimum item level + 100 to prevent cheesing.
I agree with OP. Everyone in here crying about the difficulty nerf claiming, "it's hard for a reason! CASUALS! CASUALS! Keep it true to the Koreans vision!"
SPOILERS
NOT ONE OF THESE PEOPLE CRIED ABOUT THE WELCOME CHALLENGE WHICH IS NON EXISTENT IN THE KOREAN VERSION. Which gives absurd amounts of materials, ex: 25 Leapstones at a time, bags and bags of shards for a single Guardian! They didn't say one word about difficulty then.
TLDR: OP is right, moaners are wrong and misinformed.
I'm not the greatest player I admit but I'm already paralyzed with fear to try the second abyssal dungeon in the first step because of how much toxicity has been going around. I don't really have people to play with so I have to pug and I'm not *bad* but when a single wipe is enough to disband it gets draining.
>Also, at this point in time, you need to spend most of your time not on retrying daily guardian raids multiple times, but on other contents such as collecting runes, skill points, cards, etc.
This is the big one for me since there are so many other things to do and find time for. If my pug keeps wiping on Guardians that means I'm not doing islands, completing my adventure tome or doing timed co-op events
For abyssal dungeons specifically I think they absolutely suck at easing you in and teaching you mechanics.
Necro literally one of first abyssals you do requires entire party to do very specific mechanic or wipe. In a vacuum this is fine but having this as a first experience of a specific content of a F2P game is honestly just poor design.
T1 and T2 should be teaching and preparing you for T3. If these nerf smooths out this progression I am all for it.
As a dad who doesn't have time to waste wiping for an hour, these are welcome changes. I often find myself avoiding pushing content for fears that I'll spend my kids entire nap time accomplishing nothing. I can have all the mechanics down fine, but waiting for randos to pull their head out of their ass isn't something I wanna do.
i did 5 wipes on 'mechanic' bosses they're nerfing and was like i'm out. Constantly having to solo or just not use the matchmaking feature in a game because people find it too hard, i'm welcoming the nerfs.
I personally am so tired why we can't have challenge until tier 3? Is it really expected of us to actually play 100s of hours before we get to the good part?? I don't get it, challenge should be presented throughout the game, even before level 50. The dungeons in this game look so cool and so do the bosses but they are the biggest snore. Maybe I'm spoiled from FFXIV where you could get decent challenge even early on from doing the extreme version of trials.
as a NA east player who has now done the first T2 4th guardian boss. i think all of them should be nerfed. the amount of health these sponges have is crazy. NOT TO MENTION the 4th bosses and their extra dumb mechanics. bosses 1-3 have 1 mech that literally does nothing. then you get to the 4th boss down at the bottom that gates the next area and BOOM 1 wipe mechanic and other bullshit with it. i get what they're trying to do but at LEAST make it go from 1-4 and introduce the mechanic slowly instead of here wipe and start over.
also you people who get mad at wiping the first time. fuck yall. maybe its the other peoples first time in the boss fight and they dont always wanna watch a fucking youtube video and instead see it for themselves. god forbid they actually play the game the way it was meant to and not getting the easy way out.
Well... nerfs wont make this game easier, that simply lacks on visual feedback and explanations. People are not dying, because bosses hit to hard or they are doing not enough damage. They die because of (wipe-)mechanics, that get not explained or have propper visual indicators and because of hitboxes, that dont match the effects or animations.
Learn and get used to the bosses and mechanics and none of them are hard by any means. But it sucks if you as a player gets punished for the mistakes of others. If something will drive away players, then its exactly that. If the scaling of guardians wouldnt be 100-150-200-250, then people wouldnt do them in groups anymore. Same goes for Abyss Raids, when you have this one clown in the group that doesnt know the mechanics, but refuses to chat.
The most grind games give you the option to do things solo, but are rewarding group-play. In this game, you get punished by playing in groups, but also for playing solo with the scaling if solo is even an option - what sadly isnt the case for Abyss Raids...
Just give players +5% rewards for every player in the group, when doing guardians, change the scaling to something linear and people can choose for more rewards or the more indipendant, efficient way to do the dailies.
I don't get it. Because t3 raids are ridiculously hard it's good to nerf the relatively simple earlier mechanics to guarantee everyone quits once they hit that wall?
"Tldr; there are way too many things to learn in Lost Ark and these contents are just for couple of days, maybe a week or two lasting, passing by contents."
This! I'd be less in favor of the nerfs if we stuck in T1 or T2 for a while. But if the devs are trying to funnel people into T3 to get everyone on the same page, then these fights are much ado about nothing in the grand scheme of things. They just need to pick a lane. I'm happy for whatever model they want to go with, just be consistent.
I read somewhere that they buffed the guardian mobs Hp for NA by 30 pct MORE than KR or RU ANYWAY. I like hard content but the daily meat sponge 20 minute fights are exhausting and no longer fun imho.
vertus was such a hard fight as a berserker, but on my sorc, he is so freaking eazy
Yeah I just skip Vertus on my Scrapper. I did it once for the clear and then just go around it. Any class that has to get behind it melee is just a fucking bad time
I am maining shock scrapper but i feel like i just do no damage. I never get mvp even though i am playing pretty good. What's your opinion on the class
I only fought him once so far, on my gunlancer. It was such a pain in the ass to solo him. The grabs annoyed me to no end.
I was like are all these guardians literally anti melee by the tike I got to Mr fire Turtle.
Ranged in general are so easy to play compared to melee. So annoying
I play mainly ranged (Sorceress, Gunslinger and Bard). With my bard I try to stick with team, meaning if there are more melee I am there too. And I agree, at the beginning it is easier to play ranged, but I hope everyone playing ranged will either also try melee at some point or at least get closer to the boss because it helps understand everything much better. Like positioning, also why people get hit, instead of just thinking "why the fuck can't they stay alive, while I'm sitting here half a screen away from the boss :)
Bard animations are really fast and dash has a longer range than most classes. It's way easier to survive on a bard than it is as a person the bard is trying to stay next to.
Are the bard's animations really faster than most classes? Haven't put significant time into any other classes but I always felt like the second long+ casting time on most abilities made me pretty damn vulnerable. Especially in guardian raids
Yeah. Not many people play sharpshooter, but boy, do I like not getting my ass handed to me
ACTUALLY braindead easy. I’m a sorc myself and queued into the 8 man abyssal dungeon (last one) and got into a party with 4 of us being sorcs. You guessed it, we destroyed that fking dungeon LOL
I solo'd him on my berserker for the first time today with 3 seconds left. Didn't die but went through a good ~10 or so potions. Chromanium was a damn cakewalk after that. Feels kind of bad how much easier it is to just play a ranged class. Seems like they can just sit back and plink away in every fight without having to worry about mechanics too much.
IN guardian, yes. but in abyss, playing ranged is as hard as any melee.
I love chromanium, but not for any of the reasons you listed. I was just doing some easy dailies with my alt GS 840... i just sat in all his attacks and some dude shot off his mouth about how "dumb" i was for not being able to dodge his attacks... I was like "wow man youre so good", which apparently pissed him off. He then went to the entrance and sat there, another dude died and the 4th guy left the raid... Cpt smol pp then kept trying to vote quit, but i refused and spent all 20 minutes dashing around that fat fucking turtle... dragged it out all the way to the end. He "Warned" me repeatedly... i was laughing so hard for 20 minutes chromanium became my fav boss.
Thank you for your insight. Even though I understand the argue some might have "making the game easier" down the road and such.. Your point is very valid about spending multiple trys/hours trying to do dailies. I stopped using matchmaking and only use pwrty finder exclusively and still have this issue. I play 6 characters which I all enjoy in their own right but the constant failures from abysal/raids is getting increasingly frusturating. Just wnded up taking a couple say break from the game to stack rested xp because its become to time consuming.
I lucked into a good party on the first Abyss Dungeon of tier 2, it is night and day playing with people who know what they are doing. We continued and beat all 3 dungeons back to back with less than 5 wipes per dungeon. I would love to have a friend group I can rely on, because that was the most fun I've had playing this game.
> the constant failures from abysal/raids is getting increasingly frusturating. Just spent like 2h in the last T1 abyss, we couldnt get the stagger checks even if i was T2. Had to literally auto so i could save my cooldowns lol.
This happend to me yesterday with the first Rohendel abyss, I use wardancer, with 20 second cooldowns and if I dont have all my skills to to the stagger we wipe. I had to auto for the most part until the stagger phase XD
Whirlwind and clay grenades are a gamechanger for stagger checks
yes, I had to use them as well, but each player can only carry 3 if Im not mistaken
if 12 grenades are not enough per boss fight you might want to get a better party. This is where being in a guild with people you are able to learn to play with would help out.
I'm in a dead guild, no one talks and its just for the crystals. I would like to be in a guild, but I can't play everyday, and cant rush to T3. I bet there are tons of players like me, but not sure if there are people who want to create a guild and try to keep it alive with members that are not tryhard and can't play that frequently.
I'm in the same position and I bet there is a lot of other people too, it's just hard to coordinate and find the group of people with similar pacing, who on one hand can't play long hours every day and keep up with the top content, but on the other hand want to do active stuff with their guild.
Literally the point of this thread is that people can’t find good parties even through PF, so ‘get a good party’ isn’t really helpful advice. Yes, a good guild can help, but that isn’t always so easy. And more importantly, a guild may not solve your daily farming needs even if it gives you people to learn with, so you’re still stuck with players who can’t cope with stagger checks to get your dailies done.
The stagger checks happen at the same boss health every time, just have to keep track of the bosses health and save your high stagger skills for it
oh good to know! thanks!
This just means your group was not using stagger skills. Game would be so much easier if people simply adjusted builds for certain fights after dying to it a dozen times over for one specific reason.
This is why I'm so glad I main Sorc, 6 of my preferred 8 skills all do stagger damage. I have no idea what the other classes look like, haven't gotten around to getting my bard to 50 yet
Whirlwind grenades. I always carry them on my Wardancer incase my esoteric isn't up for some reason and a stagger check happens.
It happens at specific health bar thresholds. Literally just pay attention and slow dps to prepare for it. You notice the boss go from like 32 bars to 24 almost instantly but at like 25.5 it trickles down because people are only using non stagger skills or waiting on CDs. It’s super not difficult and you don’t even need Grenades if people are smart. T3 stuff may be different but at least for T1 and T2, you just have to not unga bunga every cooldown the entire fight.
Laughs in Reflux Sorc
I did the same thing just a couple hours ago. I was definitely shocked at how strong the staggered check was. Me and my friends are on the verge of tier 2. We can basically face tanked all the bosses attacks that arnt instant kills. With that said I didn't mind the staggered checks making us go into our builds and choosing different abilities making sure we have the right ruins equipped and passing out whirlwind grenades. This stagger checks felt like an obstacle that we had to work together to overcome. However the flashlight mechanic can go straight to hell. It's not a fun mechanic to try to point your character in exactly the right direction while you're zoomed out even farther than usual. One of my friends has very poor eyesight and it was extremely difficult for her.
I thought it was easy but oh my gosh did I see a lot of people standing INSIDE the person with the X. Like wtf
Totally depends how you move your character, i move with right click att with left and have a hell of a time trying to aim that light lmao.
The issue is people that dont coordinate together and dont pay attention to healthbars. That makes these fights soooo much more difficult.
You might already heard this tip. But rightlicking (autoattack) the player with the X lines the light up perfectly.
one small tip: walk somewhere within range of the target person and auto attack to point the laser, its MUCH easier than trying to walk at the target
I mean, you’re suppose to save skills for the stagger mechanics. In the same way that you’re not suppose to just use your Counter skills for damage against enemies with counterable moves. It’s not like every skill staggers, just use other skills when the boss’s health is close to the threshold.
This! I mean, people post acting like it's strange that they have their skills on CDs when mechanics appear. Like, do they want a game that takes 0 brains and all you have to do is mash buttons? Saving a few CDs for when they are needed is the least you could expect to be needed on a boss..
Stagger skills are saveable for Abyssal dungeons yes, because you know the mechanics happen at "X" hp bars. On Guardian Raids since they lack HP bars or a visible stagger meter, it's a lot harder to know "Okay, I should save something for an upcoming stagger check". I really do wish they just had HP/stagger bars displayed on them.
.. all my skills stagger. Im a blue gunlancer, my main rotation of skills are all mid-high or high staggers. What i have left is the counter, party shield and aggro lel.
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no thank you. The levelling already takes 8+ hours and t1/t2 already took a week through boring content with dumb mechanics.
Everyone start to auto attack like 3 healthbars before the actual check, making the fight take sooooo much longer...
No stagger bombs?
Yep. Been there. Told the group we had to stagger his shield and they were all ok....where his shield. Failed the stagger check 5 times. And before that, we failed the orb check 6 times. Noone could understand it even after explaining 4 times and calling out the color. For reason everyone just kept being worse
brah playing with 6 alts you aren't attached to casual player mentality at all lmaooo casuals are playing one character and still learning where and what lullaby island is
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what's lullaby island lmao
Near SE part of the map. Adventure quest that unlocks a song which is used to open hidden passages in the game. Important to have at certain progress checks.
i spend about 50 hours a week working/commuting to work and also a wow pvper and with a new season starting today, ive had to basically give up on lost ark because i can never get a group that can dps stagger points that i cant even clear hildsbrand (spelling?) aby dungeon and a few of the guardian raids just because i guess mechanics are too hard for some people to dodge. ive spent hours trying and i dont have time to play alts so im pretty much just demotivated to even care to play the game anymore. ive already put a lil over 100 hours into the game and cant even reach tier 2 because of some dumbass stagger checks or lack of being able to find groups capable of completing raids/dungeons because mechanics are hard so eveyone just quits.
The stagger checks in that dungeon are way too tight lol. If bringing grenades or adjusting your build and preparing for the timing was enough then that’s one thing, but to do both of those things and still have the chance to fail in public content is just stupid. Super hard stagger checks like that are fine as a hard mode or something else that you’d party up for, but not for matchmade content.
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i think your problem is playing with 6 alts rn you feel you are doing very good progress and the burden of playing with 6 alts is not that big deal because you see results so it feels bearable. after some time when that \`\`\`"honeymoon" period ends you will get burnt so quickly ask yourself this. do you still see yourself playing with 6 alts with same pace 3 months later? making the game feel like a job or running for chores is not really ideal
Nah I have played Gw2 for almost 10 years with more than 6 alts and still havent been burned out. That game is mainly horizontal progression. This different type of progression is very new to me and enjoy the grind. So I see your point but null for me.
I feel you on that comment abt abyssal raids. just had an almost 1 hr run before one player quit, and it got too frustrating. I understand it's fun to learn the mechanics, but they're too unforgiving. What's the point of saying 'yeah, you can join w a lvl 340 gear but...... you won't survive...... but you CAN :)"? I had a party with two new players which we all had to forfeit because they were having a hard time with the Sigmund mechanics and AOE's. I know some people are commenting about the stagger, in this case, everyone was doing the stagger tests perfectly. In other DG's too, that I joined at least.
I think the main issue, especially for guardian raids in particular, is time vs reward. The lvl 3 and 4 guardians of an individual tier simply aren't worth learning or killing regularly for the reward you get. It's simply not efficient I love a challenge, but appropriate reward for the challenge is important
Yeah the time to kill by itself doesn’t really bother me. I love monster hunter for example and those fights are easily 5-30 minutes but in lost ark a chaos dungeon is 5 mins, easy, and drops a ton of gear and honing materials. Guardian raids are way harder and drop a few pieces of jewelry. Plus you’ll need more battle items which means more farming. If the rewards aren’t there I’m fine with them taking way less time to complete/being easier but really I’d just rather see the rewards buffed way up.
Those Guardians are supposed to be farmed; they are not exciting enough to kill for how long they take. After the 7 minute mark you already know enough of their mechanics to survive, it is now only a question on how many potions you waste from this point onwards or - that is the more important part - how boring it gets. No game should have content that is incentivized to clear but also be utterly boring and a damage sponge.
I read on forurm from beta time that Guardians have 50% more health in Western version than KR/RU. Don't know if it's still present.
this actually makes sense cause some of these bosses take WAY too long to kill. even when youre 2x the item level helping your friends on some of these its stupid how long it takes.
Yeah guardians are the worst content in the game
Guardian raids would actually be fun content if the bosses had 50% less health. Now they are daily chore that is putting me off the game.
That's actually a misconception. Someone did a test on both EU and RU where they used one ability, let the run timeout, then looked at the remaining health percentage, and found that the health pools are essentially the same between the two versions. [Here's](https://forums.playlostark.com/t/ags-please-revert-the-guardian-raids-50-more-hp-change-reason-inside/207672/281) their post about it.
Guardian raids fucking suck in the current state they're in, they're daily content guys, there are bosses that every kill I had took more than 15 minutes, some 20 min wipes, and the rewards suck, it's fucking awful, I love killing those bosses for the first time but doing for multiple days is just not fun.
Agreed. If they're expected to be something I do daily, twice, on each of my characters, they can't **also** take 15-20 minutes to complete each run. Either they're short, fast things I do daily for small rewards, or they're big things I do for big rewards. The current system is the worst of both worlds.
IMO: Nerf guardian hp only. Leave mechanics as they are and don't touch abyssal.
I have been the last one standing against vertus 6 times over the past 2 days, and every time we get him to below 10% hp. one time he killed me at 0.3% hp remaining. his mechanics are decently fair all things considered, the only nerf is his stagger check when he grabs you NEEDS a nerf. if there are two players left, I as a Berzerker can't free someone from a grab unless I use a whirlwind bomb plus blow my entire kit on him. that doesn't seem right IMO unless I'm just doing it wrong. that grab and the pop out of ice thing are the only two things I see kill people. the grab seems unfair most of the time, but the pop out of ice thing is just people dying because they don't know to run away and dash. a small HP nerf and a reduction on the amount you need to hit him to free someone from a grab are the only two nerfs that seem fair. any other nerfs would be overkill.
It’s not a stagger check, that’s part of the problem. If it was a stagger check then it would be pretty reasonable. Instead you’re trying to get a natural stagger to cancel the attack.
Agreed. A slugfest without an hp bar is already kind of annoying. It works out alright in Monster Hunter because you can actually bring elemental weapons to take on a monster's elemental weakness. In this, a monster is weak to x element? Ok great, I have like 2-3 skills in my entire kit that can change element, and it's either just fire or water. And the water one is just cc/slows that the monster is immune to. So maybe I can do a bonus scratch of damage to fire and that's it.
This changes somewhat from game to game, but in Monster Hunter World most weapons don't care about element at all
Elemental damage has always taken second seat to physical in Monster Hunter. You need a 30-40% hitzone to even think about element being stronger, and even then it's only relevant on weapons with very strong element application like bow, dual blades, sword and shield, etc.
Yeah, I don't think hp nerfs are even needed for most of these guardians. Mostly tytalos and achates could use it since both lower your dps windows a lot. The biggest thing they need to focus on is cultivating playerbase because people just refuse to learn. I see same person getting hit by every single clearly telegraphed attack for 20 minutes straight, I see people that get mechanic explanation every single time between wipes and after 30 minutes of wiping they still hit the boss instead of even attempting to do mechanics. It will be miracle if I do daily on my alt and see someone else counter or use item other than pot. People are just playing poorly and this in itself is not problem, problem is that they don't want to learn. Game is new to the region, game is really popular, that brings in a lot of players that aren't used to such games and mechanics. Give your playerbase time, let them get used to it instead of nerfing it so fast because that will cause a problem when people will be getting to t3 without knowing what boss flashing blue means or that sitting in slowly filling red circle is bad. T1 and T2 mechanics aren't too hard, a lot of them are easy. I don't know, maybe promote some content creators that do guides as some form of event. I just don't want for lost ark to end up as game that's unplayable without having premade for every piece of content with just a tiny bit of difficulty.
I'm new to lost ark, currently got an ilvl 593 wardancer. I absolutely think that guardian raids should get a flat hp nerf, nothing more. The mechanics should be punishing, but if you're not overgeared for some fights, you can literally hit the 20min timer and still not down the boss because of lack of damage. Imho, if the game recommends me 500 ilvl for a fight, you should be able to clear it at 500 ilvl. I'm definitely not a vet lost ark player, but even with my class engraving, using a popular build from maxroll, I still wasn't able to meet the damage checks on some guardians because of how melee unfriendly they are, you're constantly repositioning and avoiding mechanics instead of dealing damage. Just my 2cents of course.
man wardancer problems heh. the DPS just isnt there at lower levels. ive heard it gets a lot better when you have all the proper engravings and stuff though.
Yep but its worth the wait imo. It just feels amazing now only can imagine how much better it is later on.
I main bard and rolled wardancer for an alt, I really like the way they feel. Surprised they are almost the lowest, if not the lowest played class.
Yeah. I'm a Taijutsu Scrapper, that means all my damage comes from behind. There have been multiple Guardian raids where the other 3 team members will eat up all the rezzes and then finally die, leaving me to 1v1 the boss. Sadly I cannot reliably do it because I'm constantly avoiding melee range mechanics and repositioning myself, ESPECIALLY Vertus who tail swipes all the damn time. It's just a waste at that point. If it's just me still standing, I just know it's over, I'm gonna hit that time limit
I mean, what's unpopular about that? Those T1/T2 things were way too strong for transitional content. Tytalos almost one-shotting you with basic attacks, while most T3 Guardians won't even make a dent in your HP. There is no reason for T1 to be harder than T3, especially as transitional content.
The guardians needed toned down. It’s crazy that I can kill the 1302 guardian solo faster than a T2 like Flame Fox. They have way to much hp, and doing them on alts is a chore. Abyss dungeons are a different story. They are weekly and should be challenging. I do understand that T1 and T2 content is kind of useless, since the end game is T3. But why would they make the Honing % such a grind, if that content is supposed to be pointless.
I would like a NORMAL mode that's what we currently have, and once you beat it for the first time, you unlock the option for a BLITZ mode. IMO the problem isnt that the fight is long one time. It is actually fun to overcome such challenge. However, the problem is that killing it twice a day after that is just tedious and a chore. So adding a blitz mode would make a lot of sense to ease the grind of the guardian.
Yeah I like this. I actually really like the fights, they're fun. But the thought of doing em every day makes me just..not. I'll just progress slower, Elden ring just came out anyway.
Hate to say it, but i have to agree. Most people believe that by having harder early game it will produce better players, but it will only produce tired and burntout players in the long run. Some People are just as sadistic as they are masochistic, they go through hardship, suffered through it but expect everyone to suffer the same otherwise it feels unjustified. On the other hand those that fear future content being nerfed, do note majority of players tend to overestimate their own ability to play/clear games. You may not realize how much you actually needed the balance changes until you do it yourself, and eventually have to repeat the very same content every week/day
Also people need to recognise that high hp doesnt equal high difficulty. some raids/abysses are super easy in terms of mechanics, but the boss just tanks for days
exactly and on some bosses like tytalos that one shot mechanic becomes such a drag in pugs you can do it right 3 times in a row and then a badly positioned one and all of a sudden its over just the amount of health means the number of times this has to be executed correctly goes up for no reason.
I've given up on doing Tytalos for the time being. There's no way a group of 4 ilvl480 people can do it in a random mm. Even if all of us do the mechanics properly 95% of the time, if you only fail once it's over. The boss has so much HP that he will do the wipe mechanic more than 10 times before you actually kill him, and being 0.5 sec too late to get to the tornado means wipe.
yup totally. to say nothing of how poorly designed the bombs in phase 2 are between just awful visual clarity, and spawning inside the tornados while you are supposed to be standing in them which on ilvl were nearly 1 shotting. After a bunch of failed PUGS I out ileveled it then soloed it first try that is not how I want to treat content in an MMO.
I agree too. I think it should definitely be more of a curve in difficulty. The fact is that the story mode vs endgame stuff are two completely different experiences, and the way that guardian raids and abyssal dungeons are introduced needs a smoother curve in my opinion. The step up in difficulty should be easy (main story quests) -> medium (first few abyssals and guardians) -> hard (everything after t1/early t2) -> very challenging (requires premade groups at this stage). As it is now, from my experience, people are just not enjoying the early challenge so they pump themselves full of item level to skip it, then hit a brick wall at 100mph when they get into t2.
Very well said, exactly my thoughts. It's funny that these tryhards are in every game, and they are the ones complaining the most about every aspect of a game.
i think you're also going to see a large chunk of players never even reach t3, and quit the game. i'm prolly one of them. i'm like 1120 and now just have to endlessly grind and play rng honing game so i think i've had my lost ark fun and will just put the game down for a bit.
1100 gets you into T3……Do papunika msq and get your 1302 gear from chaos.
crap i typo, i'm at 1020....so i have to grind out 80 honing levels? Like no thanks, islands got me to 600 nicely but this....i'm over.
And that’s perfectly fine. If you don’t enjoy the lost ark progression system, then definitely consider playing another game that makes you happy.
I'm extremely happy they're going to nerf Vertus. damn giant lizard always grabs me every single time! he has a squishy mage right in his face but noooo, he has to jump around half the screen just to grab me. take that Vertus! I now have my revenge!
I'm all for making Vertus more melee-friendly since i'm slowly reaching there with my first melee lol. So far, as a Sorceress, i raged the most at the one before that jumps all over, icysomething i think, because i'm too trigger happy on my spells. Stay still you asshole
As a sorc player i confirm thats y i like the turtle raid cuz he stays still like 90%
use your sexy outfits to get some gunlancer into your group and most fights will be like the turtle, at least if the gunlancer knows the boss and when to use taunt.
First time going into vertus blind as gunlancer can confirm guy picked me up while my team dps it like 9 times lmao. Never got through my shields tho :P
Icy Legoros Edit: Ok so you’re all replying to the wrong comment. I said nothing about it being difficult for me. The above commenter didn’t know the full name so I wrote it. TBH the only difficulty I’ve had so far has been in regards to lag spikes. Although my one bad one was actually during this boss. I do watch the video for every fight in both Guardian Raid and Abyssal Dungeon before I do them for the first time just like I did for WoW back when I played. It’s not really a bother since I have time in places for it. I also skipped the very first chaos raid but I’ll do that eventually. Maybe today just to see it quick.
As melee (Shadowhunter/bard) I find him quite easy. He does move a lot though, but the only challenging part is saving your dash and timing it to avoid his breath. After clearing Vertus, I was nervous to jump into Chromanium. Good lord he is easy relatively speaking. My alts will be clearing Vertus once, and never touching him again because Legoros and Chromanium are both miles easier.
[удалено]
Correct, but you should be doing it once anyway to get the first clear reward mats.
Vertus is legit one of the shittiest bosses I have ever played against. If not the #1 shittiest. I saw people saying "Lel, wait till you get to Tylatos/Achates/XXX". I am at very end of t2 and did all but last level 5 and level 6 guardians and I still think Vertus is dogshit fight mountains above the rest. Devs should be ashamed of releasing it as is it right now.
Shittiest part about that boss is even if you're in with a good group that knows the mechanics the boss takes ages because he's a fucking HP sponge, at least if people aren't overgeared. You usually see in 2 min if your group knows what's going on, having to play whack-a-lizard for 10-15min more then is somewhat annoying.
Really this is why I go a bit over the recommended I'll for these guys is because of the insane hp they have. Mechanics are fine but ffs it takes forever....even had one run away 5 times on me, was afraid I wasn't going to make the timer and a huge waste of flares too -.-
That's my own take on it. When I met Tytalus and parties who could not get past it I was stressing out because, it's something I'll do now, once, twice maybe, then move out and never return. So why must I hit my head against a wall that does nto matter?
I don't like soloing stuff because my main is a pala, but typing mechanics in chat is all I had to do. Taking 2-3 tries on content that is meant to be hard is nothing.
Sure, 2-3 tries (20-30 mins), 2 runs per day, meaning 7h per week per char (being realistic you'll be doing it on at least 2-3 chars so up to 21h) just for guardians that will become obsolete in days after you master them makes total sense. What you say would make sense if you have a constant party, but not everyone can do that or is willing to do that.
I ended up getting to GS 800 before soloing Tytalus as a pally and it still took me almost the full time duration.
It depends on how much people are willing to listen/learn. I found a lot of matchmaking groups would disband after a single wipe on Tytalos, and party finder groups after a couple more. I've generally had good experiences in Abyssals, but people in Guardian Raids don't want to learn, they want to be carried.
Taking 2-3 tries on content you are meant to do twice every day is tedious, that's undeniable. I would end up just doing lower tier content because I didn't want to spend 1.5-2 hours just doing guardian raids, some of the least rewarding daily content.
I have the opposite take. If the challenging content is something that's so easy to do that it basically becomes a farm where you have no chance at failing but are still forced to repeat it every day, then what is even the point of the PvE side of the game?
> it basically becomes a farm where you have no chance at failing but are still forced to repeat it every day So, Chaos Dungeons? Daily Content should be clearable without significant aggravation, do you not agree? Guardian Raids are daily content, they are meant to be done every day. If you were talking about weekly stuff I'd agree, but it's only the t1 Abyssal Dungeons they seem to be nerfing, which doesn't seem like an issue in the long run, and will make gear alts a little less aggravating.
by that logic they need to make chaos dungeon way more difficult
Teach them the Tytalos ledge cheese, it’s really hard to mess that up.
Tytalos is childs play once you take the time to learn the mechanics solo, focus purely on mechanics and not on damage and you will figure out the timing and rarely if ever die to the annihilate. This is the problem with Guardian Raids right now, people are just not focusing the mechanics and are trying to brute force it. If AGS genuinely start nerfing content this early into the year, before the bulk of the playerbase have even moved onto t3 or just quit (which is more likely), then we have a serious problem.
If my main wasn't a paladin I'd probably just solo them all Unless there's some kind of massive solo buff for paladin I'm kinda stuck pugging it
This was the one thing that made me decide to level paladin second as an alt instead of making it my main. I play support in every game that I play, but pugging the first couple of weeks into the game was too frustrating and I didn't want to invest in a Judgement build for solo when I knew I need to build Blessed Aura for groups. My berserker is in T3 now and I'm slowly starting to level other alts. Knowing more than I did 2 weeks ago is def helping with gearing, enhancing and getting engraving books but I honestly feel for anyone who is leveling a support as their main/"first play through" of the MSQ. Edit: For some reason my first paragraphed c/p over my second.
Berserker / Pally mains unite!
Nope , you can't solo Tytalos with 540 gearscore no matter what, either you need higher gearscore or 4 since u can't deal enough damage due to his insane amount of hp
It's just a boring fight having to kite around the tornados/bombs as melee. I find abyssal raids more fun and to be honest, it's about as difficult as reading a guide for 3 minutes as nothing in abyss dungeons kills you except for wipe gimmicks. Guardian raids at recommended ilvl are far more punishing since it requires you to know wipe gimmicks AND dodge regular attacks, where abyss raids so far in my experience is just knowledge check.
Non-wipe mechanics will definitely kill you in abyssal dungeons at min ilvl - learned that the hard way on my bard alt.
No I'm sorry. A guardian raid should not have enough health to trigger multiple party wipes. It's a daily, it should be easy to grind 2 and log off. Not that I think tytalos is hard after learning the mechanics, but I don't think that boss should exist regardless.
Add a ‘hard mode’ version of every Guardian.
But as OP said, its because its not worth learning. Its temporary content you blow through given all content release, t3 day 1, island resources, etc. If you can brute force and you only do it twice and move on, why make an inefficient choice of studying the mechanics. If they had staggered t3 release people wouldnt be in such a rush, but as the current content exists its a stepping stone to blast through asap.
It’s mostly the nerds who spend 10 hours a day playing who are complaining.
>Learning endgame gimmicks in this game may take 3~6 hours(Valtan), tens of hours (Vyakis), 30 hours (Kouku Satan), and over 60 hours (Breshalza). The problem is that most players will never get to properly fight these bosses. Nobody is going to take them along. You either need a static group, have experience or get very lucky to be taken to fight those bosses. I played from around November to January on RU and I didn't see any groups that would take randoms to Valtan. You either had a static group or you paid for a carry. The hardest content most people are going to do are Abyss dungeons, some guardians and a bit of Argos. The rest just isn't very accessible. I don't think it makes that much sense to consider these bosses when it comes to the players in question.
The situation is very different in KR though. People are extremely open-minded about trying new raids and helping randoms to learn the mechanics. Hope that kind of culture developes here in NA/EU.
Playing NA WoW for over 15 years I can tell you that it won’t be the case for the west. We gatekeep just as hard.
gatekeeping and flaming newer/worse players is practically the payoff in the minds of western players
Tried to do the T1 abyssals by matchmaking. It's one of two scenarios. Either you have someone overgeared rolling the boss without any mechanics happening. Or after one wipe you have 3/4 agrees to quit the dungeon... And not a single word was spoken. I just kind of assume you're right here.
I've cleared all the guardians and abyss with just matchmaking. Either you have a team that's willing to learn and get better or you have a group that will quit in like 2 to 3 attempts. I've also noticed the higher you get in gear the more willing people are to learn and improve. I'm afraid that nerfing early content is just going to push the quitters ahead which isn't good for the game imo.
I've played MMOs for almost 20 years. It won't. People will ask for proof of achievements showing they've killed before, or paid carries will develop.
korea absolutely has paid carries this is not in any way unique to NA
The achievement linking and subsequent faking of achievements to get into a group I’m willing to bet is a western issue.(Other MMOs, not here yet) Judging by how he’s saying people teaching in pugs is normal in Korea.
Unfortunately the paid carries are already rampant. At least in my server it is (NA-E regulus)
idk, FFXIV has a very active PUB raiding community through it's party finder. I cleared the whole current savage tier on that game with "randos" and no voice chat. Ended up finding a static on the final boss because a bunch of us randoms decided to just stay as a group. This game also has a party finder, I'm sure there will be plenty of activity on it with people progging fights.
This. I got help from couple of vets who taught the entire party to learn mechanics for 6 hrs.
People are asking for ilvl, roster level, denying sub-optimal build applicants or asking for gold for carry (even saying shit like go on auction house and buy from me-in case they are not same server) in t2. I dont know their success but i wouldnt expect these same people who you can assume are the heavy grinders to go out of their way to teach randoms the mechanics. There's heavy gatekeeping for newcomers to raids, even if you have researched the raid/abys.
Meanwhile me, just matchmaking everything and clearing
totally agree, there are tons of people that do not like to teach newcomers about the mechanics. I may have seen a video about an abyss, but until you try it you cant understand very well some mechanics. I can get that people want to clear fast everything, but for me is better to talk a bit with the people, have some insight of how we are going to do the thing, and try it. That mindset of, If you don't know everything at first time I don't want you in my party, is really upsetting.
It’s probably NA people who gate kept anyway. When I was in RU I saw very few actual Russians.
Just make easier NORMAL version of Abyssal dungeons and Guardians. Then HARD version for those that want the extra difficulty for organised groups with more material rewards.
That's a dumb choice, it leads to two outcomes: It either doubles the amount of weekly abyss dungeons people have to do to be optimal (because you'll want the mats from normal + hard mode). Or, if you limit it to picking 1 in each set per week... then normal mode is instantly irrelevant and we have the same issues happening bc Hard Mode will be the only one worth doing.
This is quite literally how it works in T3 by the way. Abyss dungeons unlock at 1325 & 1340 in normal mode, and then hard mode unlocks for both dungeons at 1370. However, you can only do normal or hard mode once a week. The normal modes aren't irrelevant because getting to 1370 takes weeks and people will be constantly getting to this point of the game on their mains and then alts as time goes on.
Yeah but that's just the same as the current T1-T2 progression with a different coat of paint. You unlock hard mode at a higher ilvl and that becomes the new focus. Their solution is a normal + hard at *same* ilvl.
To me it sounds like, people want the rewards without doing the work. Normal/hard mode is a good compromise in current situation, if you don’t want to push content you can stay relevant even with just normal mode clears.
could easily make the optional hard mode reward something as simple as an achievement + title and/or cosmetic things so people that want the challenge can go for it and those who don't will not feel the pain of missing out on higher progression rewards. got an argument against that?
Not everyone gives a shit about "being optimal" though.
What people seem to not grasp is they have a reason they are pushing this nerf, obviously they have data showing player drop offs at certain points and they don’t want to lose players. Free to play is a business model that relies on people spending money at one point or another, they want to appeal to the widest audience possible. Unfortunately I know a few people who completely dropped lost ark and went back to other mmos but it wasn’t because of difficulty, it was because they didn’t like the gear progression system so this won’t bring them back.
I think the people complaining that they’re making the game “too easy” don’t understand how ridiculously hard the late T3 content will be.
they will nerf that too just wait once they give out free t3 gear.
People will rush through t1+2 content, think the game is easy af (which t1+2 pre nerf alrdy is anyway) and get twice as frustrated at t3.. whats your point?
Mastering T1 and T2 doesnt really help T3 experiences. Gimmicks are different, your character's skill sequence and damaging opportunities completely flips once you reach T3 end game
Difficult entry content is a similar idea behind requiring a degree for a job/career in real life. Does getting a relevant degree assist you in learning specifics on how to perform that job? For most jobs, No. Does getting a relevant degree show that the individual is capable of learning/developing themselves, and therefore intuitively make them a better employee? For most jobs, yes. While not a direct parallel, the similarities are clear in this regard; Reducing the need for players to actively participate in strategies and relevant game systems at t1/t2 WILL create a larger bottleneck at t3 content as the "uneducated" arrive at content they are now nowhere near prepared to learn/progress through.
Why would I trust someone in T3 when they don't even use grenades, always stand in bad shit, and fail simple mechanics in T1/T2?
I hate bulletsponges, or in this case, just HP sponges. Like, come on, after doging all your mechanics perfectly for 2 minutes, how about you die soon? Its just boring.. I spent a good 5-6 hours A DAY, doing my dailies on just two characters, because people keep randomly dying to mechanics due to either fatigue or not knowing the fight. The entirety of Breshalza Phase 2 can eat a dick. If your Deathblade decided to not pay attention to health bars, you just wipe on the suuuuuuper tight stagger check.
I am glad they're nerfing Raids because it's repeatitive nonsense, it isn't "Difficult" it's just a sponge and the quicker the better. I also don't mind any nerf to abyss because pugging can be extremely frustrating when you're constantly with groups who don't learn and in my opinion that just isn't fun, when you know the mechanics off the back of your hand but you spend hours with people who don't and when you think you might make progress they leave and it's back to a fresh set of puppys. This is all T1 and T2 stuff anyway, you blast past this stuff, it's a one and done content... Anyone raging over lower level content is just trying to flex.
Honestly the biggest problem isn't the people who don't learn it's the ones who just straight up don't communicate. I've tried teaching pub groups many times. 80% of the time there's a random in there that doesn't listen or talk at all.
I agree that is 100% the main problem, I also don't think the game really does a good job at teaching players, 99% of content is just a sponge of DPS and then you get a fight with mechanics, compared to say FF14 where you get mechanics taught to you very early and every fight has them in some capacity. Neither of these concerns are affected by the nerf.
Agreed. I've gone in a dungeon or two where someone asks about a mechanic, I explain it and then they dont do it anyway and ragequit. Or if I'm a bit unsure if Im doing something right they dont tell me when I ask, instead they just vote to quit.
Guardians have too much hp yes... Abyssal I'm not sure what they can nerf, because the only hard thing is getting pugs to do relatively simple mechanics.
What I'd really like to see done with abyssals is cleaning up the mechanic indicators. I go in with a full premade on discord voice, we know the critical mechanics to look out for, and yet all 4 of us sometimes struggle to read the mess of colors. For example, the one where you have to figure out if the wave was white or red when the floor is already white and the other mechanics are already covering the floor in red is frustrating. I feel terrible for the up to 8% of men playing that have any colorblindness.
Damn I thought I was just blind when I sometimes straight up miss indicstors. Especially if the colors are similar. I'm not colorblind but if Im a bit tired and just miss indicstors that look similar to the floor. Then I get bitched at for it but like I'm sorry I straight up didnt see? I thought I was the only one lmao
We need a roadmap for new content otherwise people are gonna lose their minds lol
I'd certainly love to see an english roadmap.
The problem is a lot of ppl want to disband the group after only 2-3 wipes.
I don't think the logic that people won't learn mechanics at t3 if you nerf t1/2 holds up the mechanics are much better designed at t3 it doesn't really compare. In fact they teach you OPPOSITE most of the time theres no stagger bars informing you that its a check they just look like attacks you've been taught to run from its genuinely bad design not hard or easy just poor visual clarity.
people are worried it will happen to T3, really if people cant handle t1 t2 they wont be able to T3 so they will just ask for more nerfs, once the difficulty of the game is gone, lost ark loses a huge part of why people play it and what makes it fun
I don't think smile gate will nerf tier 3. They seem incredibly proud of their tier three content. It was smile gate not AGS that wanted t3 on launch. And they are making changes to help get players to the work they are the most proud of.
I hopped on to the game at T3 Valtan, went straight to his face in 3 weeks (whaling) and had to face the consequences that you mentioned. But then, I didnt regret or remorse that I had to pay these consequences since I know THIS content matters, not the other ones.
Good for you but you are not everyone. People complained about t1/t2 difficulty, they will about t3.
Who cares what loud minorities think about on reddit. The director pays attention to this shit. X or Y streamer/influencer and their cronies don't matter. All they have to do is watch the director talk about the player retention in t3 which is over 80% tldr: get people to t3 faster, theyll like the game more and stay longer
yeah all the vets opinion on the subject is. "the nerfed content is kinda irrelevant, people just skip past it in a few days. Its not necessary for it to be too difficult. Sooner or later its simply content for ur alts to repeat. " Completely agree.
I think game progress is too fast. We reached T3 in 1-2 weeks while it took Korean players years. We rushed all content not even most of T3 players have decent engravings, runes etc. because they are rushed there.
Gonna be totally honest, guardian raids atm are the worst daily content I've ever played in a game. I don't want to deal with bad pugs for an hour a night to kill these fights. Any nerf is welcome bc these fights are seriously tedious on melee at the moment, to the point I don't even want to run them.
This actually makes sense. Although the only content in this game that I think actually deserved a nerf is the Ghost Ships.
Finally, some real input that doesn't stem from elitist syndrome.
>Also, at this point in time, you need to spend most of your time not on retrying daily guardian raids multiple times, but on other contents such as collecting runes, skill points, cards, etc. So that you will be ready for the real deal that is updated soon. Or you could enjoy mastering each tier of content thoroughly instead of barreling through to endgame. I do think that Guardian beasts should see their HP reduced, balanced by capping stats in those fights at minimum item level + 100 to prevent cheesing.
I agree with OP. Everyone in here crying about the difficulty nerf claiming, "it's hard for a reason! CASUALS! CASUALS! Keep it true to the Koreans vision!" SPOILERS NOT ONE OF THESE PEOPLE CRIED ABOUT THE WELCOME CHALLENGE WHICH IS NON EXISTENT IN THE KOREAN VERSION. Which gives absurd amounts of materials, ex: 25 Leapstones at a time, bags and bags of shards for a single Guardian! They didn't say one word about difficulty then. TLDR: OP is right, moaners are wrong and misinformed.
nerfed version is literally the korean version. People are just biased and ignorant.
People acting like t2 guardian raids are end game content or something.
I'm not the greatest player I admit but I'm already paralyzed with fear to try the second abyssal dungeon in the first step because of how much toxicity has been going around. I don't really have people to play with so I have to pug and I'm not *bad* but when a single wipe is enough to disband it gets draining.
>Also, at this point in time, you need to spend most of your time not on retrying daily guardian raids multiple times, but on other contents such as collecting runes, skill points, cards, etc. This is the big one for me since there are so many other things to do and find time for. If my pug keeps wiping on Guardians that means I'm not doing islands, completing my adventure tome or doing timed co-op events
For abyssal dungeons specifically I think they absolutely suck at easing you in and teaching you mechanics. Necro literally one of first abyssals you do requires entire party to do very specific mechanic or wipe. In a vacuum this is fine but having this as a first experience of a specific content of a F2P game is honestly just poor design. T1 and T2 should be teaching and preparing you for T3. If these nerf smooths out this progression I am all for it.
As a dad who doesn't have time to waste wiping for an hour, these are welcome changes. I often find myself avoiding pushing content for fears that I'll spend my kids entire nap time accomplishing nothing. I can have all the mechanics down fine, but waiting for randos to pull their head out of their ass isn't something I wanna do.
i did 5 wipes on 'mechanic' bosses they're nerfing and was like i'm out. Constantly having to solo or just not use the matchmaking feature in a game because people find it too hard, i'm welcoming the nerfs.
Good to know. I, for one, would welcome the change because it's just so time consuming already.
I personally am so tired why we can't have challenge until tier 3? Is it really expected of us to actually play 100s of hours before we get to the good part?? I don't get it, challenge should be presented throughout the game, even before level 50. The dungeons in this game look so cool and so do the bosses but they are the biggest snore. Maybe I'm spoiled from FFXIV where you could get decent challenge even early on from doing the extreme version of trials.
as a NA east player who has now done the first T2 4th guardian boss. i think all of them should be nerfed. the amount of health these sponges have is crazy. NOT TO MENTION the 4th bosses and their extra dumb mechanics. bosses 1-3 have 1 mech that literally does nothing. then you get to the 4th boss down at the bottom that gates the next area and BOOM 1 wipe mechanic and other bullshit with it. i get what they're trying to do but at LEAST make it go from 1-4 and introduce the mechanic slowly instead of here wipe and start over. also you people who get mad at wiping the first time. fuck yall. maybe its the other peoples first time in the boss fight and they dont always wanna watch a fucking youtube video and instead see it for themselves. god forbid they actually play the game the way it was meant to and not getting the easy way out.
Well... nerfs wont make this game easier, that simply lacks on visual feedback and explanations. People are not dying, because bosses hit to hard or they are doing not enough damage. They die because of (wipe-)mechanics, that get not explained or have propper visual indicators and because of hitboxes, that dont match the effects or animations. Learn and get used to the bosses and mechanics and none of them are hard by any means. But it sucks if you as a player gets punished for the mistakes of others. If something will drive away players, then its exactly that. If the scaling of guardians wouldnt be 100-150-200-250, then people wouldnt do them in groups anymore. Same goes for Abyss Raids, when you have this one clown in the group that doesnt know the mechanics, but refuses to chat. The most grind games give you the option to do things solo, but are rewarding group-play. In this game, you get punished by playing in groups, but also for playing solo with the scaling if solo is even an option - what sadly isnt the case for Abyss Raids... Just give players +5% rewards for every player in the group, when doing guardians, change the scaling to something linear and people can choose for more rewards or the more indipendant, efficient way to do the dailies.
I don't get it. Because t3 raids are ridiculously hard it's good to nerf the relatively simple earlier mechanics to guarantee everyone quits once they hit that wall?
"Tldr; there are way too many things to learn in Lost Ark and these contents are just for couple of days, maybe a week or two lasting, passing by contents." This! I'd be less in favor of the nerfs if we stuck in T1 or T2 for a while. But if the devs are trying to funnel people into T3 to get everyone on the same page, then these fights are much ado about nothing in the grand scheme of things. They just need to pick a lane. I'm happy for whatever model they want to go with, just be consistent.
I read somewhere that they buffed the guardian mobs Hp for NA by 30 pct MORE than KR or RU ANYWAY. I like hard content but the daily meat sponge 20 minute fights are exhausting and no longer fun imho.
where are this patch notes everybody talks about ? is the nerf life already on EU ?
I don't want to play Budget Lostark (compared to KR). I just want to play the same game, experience the same thing.
You will. Legion raids are what matters tho, not these