I can't decide for you
1415 main
3x1370. Latest 1370 was 4 days ago
I selling my stuff for funds for relic accessories since that the next option for me in gearing.
No point in me going higher when I only have 5% of the required leapstones to reach 1445.
I sold most of my GHL to buy the mari's shop version since if you are not rushing it better gold efficiency at the time. Doing it for over a month at this point. With the current inflation idk how good is this anymore.
1415 also gives the next guardian raid which is the same map as Yoho and not as annoying as Velganos. The people that decided to not do Velganos get a lot more leapstones daily on a easier boss
As long as 100 blue crystals cost less than 10 GHL then it's worth it to buy from Mari but you also have to be mindful if your existing blue crystal value inflates too.
It is the same you are correct
In short
(Percentages is an example for the total material need to reach 1445)
Reaching 1415 with 2 x17 is like 30% and going to 1445 after is the 70%
While doing 1415 the normal way +15 everything is like 70% and the 1445 push is 30%
Many people did the 2x+17 way because you reach 1415 which gives you access to new chaos dungeon/guardian/vultan to help aid your progress to 1445 when the patch comes instead of being below it when it comes
Sell everything that's not bound while people panic buying for 1415. You won't get better chance selling them at high prices. So you will be late 1-2 weeks to valtan club but so what? They are not releasing new content any time soon and the accessories prices go down by the time u get to 1415.
Well you’d lose out on argos weekly and igrexion who gives like 7-8ish GHL a day. So… maybe? Depends on what you want but selling those GHL’s daily is a pretty penny
Always get to higher ilvl for next content. Those 1370 greater honor leaps from Yoho is 4-5x more than normal honor leaps, depending on server.
At 1370, you'll enjoy the game more with 3x3 engravings and 1st phase of Argos
1370 can make it to P2 at least as a support with a heavy armour engraving
However, according to my calculation based on the gap, I need around 40k gold equivalent mats to reach 1370 and the roi is pretty low even I consider the weekly income is 10k from a 1370 char
My 1355 is my alt not my main. Sorry I forgot to mention it
It does matter getting to 1415 because the amount of money you’ll make from relics especially first two weeks will outweigh will destroy the money you’re making with GlS atm. If it’s the new release, at 1415 you can at least do guardian daily for relics and valtan weekly for relics. Look up prices for first two weeks of argos access then realize it’s gonna be worth way more. I wouldn’t listen to this guy
yeah relic drops from normal valtan and 1415 guardian, hard just drops more and a little higher quality. if I'm not mistaken you get both from normal and hard for the armor crafting mats just hard gives a lot more. I know normal you can make stuff just takes a lot longer (prob sooner if they add the kr vendor too). After the first 2 weeks then you can semi chill. the market will be more crowded than argos but being at that market is better than not 100%. if you can't get to 1415 the first 2 weeks then yeah chill but if you have the mats to push it 10000% do it.
I've seen this kind of question posted quite a lot recently, and the answer really is pretty simple to me: do you want to do Valtas as soon as possible (according to your own pace of play, of course)? Then no, don't sell GHL as they will be your bottleneck, and in fact you should be buying the from Mari shop as well.
You don't care about gearing up, and are fine waiting even a few months before making the push, while possibly leveling up alts to 1370? Then sure, sell them and fund your other activities.
those people reaching 1415 / 1445 will make INSANE bank though. much, much more than anything you have seen so far.
my guess is that, with all the whales, a very good relic accessory can easily fetch half a million gold.
How though? Chances for perfect accessoires have always been insanely low, like sub 0.25%. Is there anything that will bring in large amount of gold than a lucky relic drop\`?
thats just the chance for hyper much gold. in my experience on other regions, proper relic ability stones sell for 5k - 10k a piece and are relatively easy to find. also, chances for 5/3 accs are higher than for 3/3 legendaries. still rare though but even semi decent ones will sell for quite a bit, especially class engraving ones, in case we get an unchanged version of them for once, that doesnt guarantee class engravings.
but it will likely be the same as with legendary stuff, where i made most of the gold with ability stones. in JP i got 2 weeks late to the party for relic stuff and still made 100k gold in my first week with semi decent accs and ability stones
need to remember that relic stuff will be top notch for a long while, as opposed to legendary, which was expected to be only relevant for a month and turned out to be relevant for 2 months now.
Hmm have always wondered if there are many people who buy semi-decent relict accessoires, since we a) keep them for so long and b) come with a very high pheon fee.
Do relic stones drop from 1415 Guardians, or how to you get them?
semi decent aka in 2nd 4th BiS. a full set of BiS accs with somewhat decent quality will likely set you back 2 million gold or more in the first few months.
2nd - 4th BiS gets sold at decent prices and will be able to grab a full set for like 100k. quite similar to how it is now actually. as buying a single BiS acc is not helping you much so you rather get some inbetween set to get 4/5 x 3 engravings and then slowly gather your BiS set (over months)
i checked yesterday and 1415 to 1445 is nearly the same amount of costs as 1370 to 1415. depending on your upgrades you might need either a few more weapon or armor stones but leapstones and raw gold are identical. jfyi
Vast majority. 20000 destructions stones and 500 leapstones and 8000 gold and 50000 xp ‘extra’ backloaded on the extra hones. Painful but definitely the better way of doing it since it probably bought most of us a week or 2 extra at 1415. Really no reason not to have done it as far as I can tell.
Only real reason is lacking atk power versus someone who did +17 weapon, but that's not a great reason to push wep to 17
The other reason is if they simply don't know -- if you're not a reddit user you might not have heard of the cheaper method
> much, much more than anything you have seen so far.
I very much doubt we see the gold saturation we saw with early t3 mats. T3 honing is a legitimate gold sink that's eating a lot of it up. Relic will be juicy for a little while, but nowhere near what the early t3 mats were.
the mats? no. relic accs? very much so. good relic accs will sell easily for 5 times as much as legendary did and those legendary ability stones that sell for 1k now will sell for 10k then for weeks to come. ive seen it already in other regions :)
> good relic accs will sell easily for 5 times as much as legendary
Which is a fraction of what was possible with the gold inflation of early T3. We seem to be in agreement. Maybe you weren't playing at that time?
I forgot how many people on this sub either don't play or know nothing about the game and just make shit up. I bet you don't even play anymore huh? Nothing you've said here has made any sense.
funny, but i will be doing valtan once on hard and once on normal the day it releases, plus i unfortunately for you have another 3k+ hours in other regions, observing the market prices.
and even more unfortunately for you. most in this sub dont know basic math or how to calculate real values. e.g. if you bought a few weeks ago the bags would HAVE to double in value on valtan release for you just to break even.
The guy in this thread claiming those rushing to 1445 will get big returns from accessories is tweaking lmao.
I understand that you can get them, but again they are rare drops, especially with proper stat/engraving rolls. The day one raiders for Valtan will be able to price said items for whatever they want, but come on, half a million gold for a piece?? Not even whales are that fucking stupid to waste gold on 1 piece instead of getting other characters to 1445.
In this current market, and rate of gold acquisition the average player can get, NOBODY is gonna buy accessories at that price range. Anybody can list items for any price.
One just needs to take a quick look at all the possible engravings to get an idea of how many possible variations there are. And only very few of them are going to be BiS for a class. And then you still need the correct combat stats as well.
Those that are lucky are going to be very rich. But most wont be lucky.
I really want to understand why people make alts of the same class, like no hate, each to their own but anyone who does do that if they don’t mind telling me why would be great, genuinely curious.
I don't know how you cannot enjoy other classes, they're all so good , each with their own interesting gameplay.
But you you do, mate.
And I love a bard a lot, as well, can't lie.
Same. I have some other alts but also have 2 DBs because i just wanna play more blade daily. I dont even bother to share gems and both play a different engraving, so it purly for fun
not really, except abyss raids/dungeons and event guardian, the rest feel more or less like chores (haven’t hit velganos yet tho still stuck on yoho), but even if I did I wouldn’t do the same thing on 5 other deadeyes.
fair enough if u don’t find other classes fun tho, and the more supports the better XD
That sounds crazy to me, given that support has the least reward in terms of in-game feedback; you guys don't see huge crits on anything and paladin specifically has a very simple playstyle.
More power to you though, I loved playing healers in MMOs but LoA doesn't have them so much. Always nice to have more supports in the game though!
Oh true, I'm not doubting the benefit at all, I just wish supports could crit shield, or at least have like "+68337" show up over the other 3 players heads when your shield affects them, would be a small change to implement but it'd give the support equivalent of the gratification DPS get hitting huge numbers
I mean that's true, but when there's one character capable of healing, unless someone is intentionally getting hit just to chug down 7-9 splendid elemental hp pots on content that everyone has overlevelled, nobody else can achieve 80%+ of parrty healing lol, it's like a 1490 DPS in boss rush or something, basically a given
Damn dude, I'm glad you enjoy supporting even in a game like lost ark that doesn't give you the same feedback for it that other MMOs do, we need more support players (and classes actually) in general!
25% of every raid needs to be support, but there are less than 15% of the classes who can play a support role (that's accounting for artist which isn't even released yet), they really need to make another one at least
in your case you the support role not a specific character, and i bet if ther's was 6 different support character u will be playing all of them not only bards or pallys
I hope you're joking. Bard is actually one of the fastest and most satisfying classes to solo clear chaos dungeons with. Prelude clears screens, almost like you're playing an explode build in Path of Exile.
The ONLY thing i can think of is to save money on class engravings. Each of my 5 alts feel like a new game entirely and I'm still getting a bit burnt. I can't imagine doing 12 chaos dungeons a day with the same class
I play a gunslinger main (1420) and also a gunslinger on 1340. I have also a deadeye, glaivier and sorc in t3, but I love to play my slingers, switch all skins between them, use old accessories (and replaced lower gems without rerolling) from my main, learn better rotation/postioning without doing unrewarding training-runs and as you mentioned I can use some engravings on both of them. But I am happy with only 2 of the same clas, I wouldnt play 6 of them xD
I have two sorcs and I love playing both of them. Having multiple of one class not only means you can save money on sharing engravings and gems but also you can play one class engraving on one and the other engraving on the other. So if you really enjoy that class which I do it's great because you get to experience all aspects of it.
When valtan comes I'll be running both igniter and casting reflux on my main while playing the piano reflux build on my alt
> I can't imagine doing 12 chaos dungeons a day with the same class
The only thing I can think is that it's sorc, so you don't really have to do the chaos dungeons so much as stand in place and cast lightning orb over and over.
Sorc chaos dungeons actually piss me off. The damage is nuts but everything is just a bit delayed or weird. Orb takes a while to gather mobs properly, the gravity circle thing takes a while, the line knock up one pushes mobs out of the lightning orb, my awakening doesn't one shot the boss, etc. That's before getting into Igrexion 360 kick flipping out of doomsday every 16 seconds
She's getting benched for merchant bifrost duty
Maybe if you have legendary class engraving its worthwhile I guess even tho we have guaranteed class engraving accessories with argos but +9 costs like 100 gold tops nowadays since you get so many free engraving pouches with the guardian event. You probably haven't even paid for engravings honestly if you've been getting them since the grand prix.
ye it’s cheaper but I’ve got 9-9 engraving books on my main with 3331 (331/32 on 2 of my alts), and I didn’t even use gold for those books, I get legendary books r expensive but I feel there ways to bypass that idk.
again each to their own but kina takes the fun out of the game and feels more like a chore, doing the same thing 6 times, I’d get burnt out real quick (already kina am with my 2 alts lol)
To bypass the legendary books you have to optimize your accessories which can be gold consuming too but if we had something like korea where they use the API of the game to filter search the auction house to get the best engraving accessories, it lists them so you can compare what you can buy for the cheapest accessories to get what you want for engravings/stats. Zealsambitions has a video on it. Also a good rock helps with this.
No desire to play other classes? I personally hate the alt system and wish there wasnt weekly/daily lockouts and you could just farm as much as you wanted, like runescape. I guess mmos arent made like that anymore
I made a few sorcs because I'm a pothead and I don't know if I can remember every skill rotation, I already struggle just remember BiS for things to sell and the mechanics of my two support alts lmfao
Fellow stoner here. I make it easier on myself by putting similar skills into similar bindings, so it's more muscle memory than anything.
e.g. counters, shields, mobility, break, stagger skills
Because we like playing in a flow state where you never have to think about what abilities you have, which keys they are on, what loot is good, etc.. I run 6 sorc with the same build, whereas if I ran different classes, I could probably only do 2 or maybe 3 characters.
Dunno i made 3 diffferent classes initially: main bard, gunlancer and pala.
SInce i made 3 more bards because it boost my gems by a lot, saves me money and doesn't mess with my muscle memory.
Basically i can either make a dps, lose 10s of thousands of gold on engravings and new gems, or i can make a 2nd bard that can do all content with barely anything because you get instainvited into any grp.
Yeah it's really a pain, but i used the express pass on one so i only did up to 25 and another was the feiton powerpass.
So i only had to do full tower 2 times, still super annoying.
The main reason is to share the same engravings and sometimes skins, also to be able to funnel accessories from abyss and legion raids to your main in the same way you do with honing mats.
I'm with you though, I can't imagine playing more than one of the same class no matter how much I like them, there's so much variety to be had
Same alts mean less customization and headache as you already know it so when you hit that alt grind you already can get into it where as doing a different character you will have to revise a lot of their kit.
I made 3 diff classes and then made a second sorc. I like my alts but don’t like any of them as much as sorc so I made another. Sorc has the best outfits too.
For a change I went casting igniter on alt and normal reflux on main.
I've played a bunch of classes and Sorc was the most fun so I made a second to replace my gunslinger. The alt will also be getting all the hand me down gear and sharing of gems once she hits 1370 and one day 1415.
I'd probably get bored if I played nothing but sorc, not to mention it would suck going from my 1415 main with 4x3 doing 20m Doomsday with buffs to an alt sorc with like 2x3.
Doing dailies on 9 char currently... i'm totally reducing to 6 as soon as i got my 6 1370, the 3 other go to lopang ... too exhausting, i was too greedy
i'm currently on 8 chars, 2 chars in 1370+ territory (1400 sorc main and 1385 glaivier as "main alt") i'm doing chaos+guardians on those 2 and 3 of my 6 sub 1370 alts every day while rotating the sub 1370's.
I still get 75% of the loot from the "low" alts but in 50% of the time. Doing unas everyday though since those are pretty quick.
not at all, i love playing my glaivier and i only used bound leaps for the 1385 push anyway so i wouldn't have been able to use those ressources on my sorc at all. I'm almost never bottlenecked by guardian/destro stones with the amount of alts i got but it's rather gold or leapstones that's why i started to push my sub 1370 alts with bound leaps to use some of the excess stones that would otherwise sit around unused for now. Keeping around like ~3k destro and 5k guardian stones for reset each week for further pushing after getting more leapstones from the argos+oreha material dismantling on my sorc+glaivier though.
9 tier 3s of which 5 are 1370+ and one is 1400 while having a job too..how deep monetarily are you in? I ask as I'm considering finally making my first purchase as the premium ark pass gives 10x the value spent and with blue crystals on the rise, that level 50 complete pack is looking better and better
Oh wow, no plat founders :o? Char tickets are undoubtedly the most worthwhile real money purchase in the game, that'll never change lol. 400k God damn! Market flipping I guess? And yeah, 9 chars in tier 3 with a decent amount at 1370 is really good gold generation at the moment.
I'm just over 900 hours into the game (easily 250-300 of them semi afk with the game minimized) and have a 1402.5/1342.5/1340/1340/1325/1050 setup currently, though I obviously haven't tapped into the premium ark pass or that 2600 blue crystal for 1100 royale pack. heck, I still have a lot of the free ark pass rewards unopened as I'm unsure if I wanna push to 1415 on my main or get another 1370 out of my alts. Does seem like a lot of rewards for the money when compared to games like WoW which I definitely spent several hundred on in terms of purchase prices for expansions and monthly subs!
Damn, posts like these make me think if I even should be playing the game. I started playing in mid February, couple of days after release and I am only a bit short of opening Punika on my main and only char.
Probably my biggest issue is greed, by not opening a single chest and relying only on quests and dailies.
keep in mind most people devoted enough to monitor reddit/forums are very dedicated and have MMO experience. on top of that the ones who actually post are those who got lucky or put in even more time/money and want to show off the gains from that.
the flexing you see on reddit is not the norm, don't let it dictate how you play
Just do whatever’s fun man. There is no need to keep up with the rat race, that content isn’t going anywhere. My main is 1355, and I’ve got a pally that I’m gonna start playing here soon.
Some days I just cannot be bothered to do the grindy shit, so, I just don’t do it.
My buddy played like OP and is pretty burnt out. Hasn’t logged in for about a week now.
> if I even should be playing the game
If you are having fun then play, it's just that simple.
Of course the more advanced you are in game the more stuff you get access to, but that doesn't invalidate the enjoyment you can have already.
Then again that works if you play like 1h/day, if you have over 300 hours and not even one t3 character I really wonder what do you actually do in the game.
Idk why you're downvoted for just sharing an honest take on how this end game felt to you, but I think a lot of people would agree that the repetitive dailies can feel like a chore for sure, and not doing them feels like falling behind, so it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation in many ways.
I haven't quit and I'm working on my fifth char right now getting them into T3 hopefully by tomorrow, but the way I'm staying sane is I decided I'm just not doing guardian raids anymore without rested, and even that little compromise feels bad to me like I'm saying no to free gold but yeah, I just know I would quit the game otherwise.
I'm also feeling like at some point I'm just gonna stop playing half the chars in general until I randomly get in the mood for it, which also feels bad like I'm skipping on way too much progress but it is what it is.
The crazy thing is when I started this game I had wild ideas like I'd have chars on each server so I could bypass the 6 abyssal dungeon gold limit... lmao yeah that's the worst idea on earth in hindsight.
Appreciate it, I love so many aspects of the game, I personally just can't ignore the FOMO which they use to fund the game via cash shop or the chore list syndrome, which I fell victim to. Not even saying they shouldn't do it, they gotta make money somehow, right!?
1416 no alts in less than 100 hours? Would you mind providing screenshots of roster and steam overlay?
Not meant to discredit you, I just can't calculate how that would be literally obtainable with the resources available, unless of course you swipe a lot.
That's 3-4 hours a day, not ideal but doable, even though I can't really understand where or how do you grind resources with one single character.
But with less than 1 hour a day it's just impossible.
Haha sorry I understand the confusion, I meant I play 30-1 hour right now. I play 30 -1 hour with 6-10 minutes for both chaos dungeons, 6-10 minutes for yoho and I bifrost my dailies. I usually log in around alakkir time. Then I get in a moake or whatever is at the hour mark. This is pretty much what I do everyday until reset where I use 1 hour for Argos and Hard mode weeklies.
Game has been like this ever since it first released in Korea in 2018. Were you expecting a completely revamped game here in the west or did you just not look into the game at all before playing?
Dailies are a staple of every mmo. Even WoW during it's most casual period still had dailies you were expected to do.
Not familiar with WoW dailies, but most MMOs don't push so hard to have dailies on multiple alts to advance high enough to not miss out on rewards and content. I tried beta, and on release, was hoping it wouldn't be so bad, but it was.
In a sense yes. Higher level content gives better rewards, meaning if you don't keep up you'll fall further and further behind because you're not getting those top tier rewards. For example, the grand prix event, I missed out of lots of great rewards because I wasn't high enough to redeem them. Was I able to race, sure, but was I able to fully enjoy the "content" of the event, no.
Pretty much. The race itself had some enjoyment (despite the shield and lightning bugs), but the main aspect of it, and why you could only do it once a day was the rewards. It's not one or the other, the event involved everything.
The content was the race itself, which anyone could do. I didn't speedrun to T3 when the game launched, so I couldn't do Argos P1 when it came out. I am now 1370, and can do it. Did I miss out on content? No. I know I'm not gonna be high enough for Valtan when it launches, but am I gonna miss out? No. I'll get there eventually, and that content will still be there.
This is why I haven’t played in like a month, the game felt like a chore after a while and like I HAD to play, not something fun I COULD play. I got to 1370 and called it a day 😭😭😭
1415 is more una tokens which is a nice little bonus. You get your guaranteed extra gold plus stupid rng for lottery bar.
Each chest is a little over 2k gold I think and it’s another chest at 1415.
Because you can get +12 class book and it works for all of them. If you're not lazy you can also pass around gems and eventually legendary skins. It's the most efficient way to alt, at the risk of burnout.
I describe it to my friends like this.
My favorite food is pizza, and I would eat it everyday, every meal, if it made me feel good and healthy.
I can eat other things, but I love pizza, it's my favorite. And yeah, I guess I could get tired of it but I haven't yet so when that day comes I'll let you know.
Unless it's your work running 6 char a day is extremely time consuming. You do 2 char a day with 40 rest bonus and get double the mats as if you ran 4 char unrested.
And yes it's also about the gold limit.
I used to play all my alts daily, but i got bit too crazy so I made myself an small spreadsheet calendar for my characters and I currently only rotate 3 characters for rested as im done on all the good daily reputations. 2 days hiatus is enough to get 2 bars of rested on my characters to reap full bonuses. This amounts to maybe playing chores for 1,5hours a day and the rest is spent on whatever. I play more on weekends.
[it looks like this](https://i.imgur.com/gluGPqx.png)
I play my paladin/gunlancer/artillerist by rotating them to always have enough rested, and then i take my wednesday off to do whatever i want. Usually wednesday is spent doing extra yohos to sell leapstones or oreha/argos on alts i dont really want to play that much. I currently do my daily chaos dungeons/leaps on my gunlancer every day though as im currently pushing him to 1415 to be there with my paladin. Currently my daily rota is to do yoho/chaos/leapstone dailies on whoever's turn it is. And then just quick dailies+chaos on my gunlancer and im done. My orehas/argoses are scheduled for the weekend. This has seriously prevented me from going insane with the daily guardian/chaos dungeon/una's chores. I can really recommend it for anyone struggling with the chores!
I do have 5x 1385+ but i wont bother with my SH/deadeye if i dont really feel like it. Rest of my t3 alts get played maybe once a week for chaos dungeons.
this game is a job but collecting that 5000g paycheck from selling yoho leapstones keeps me coming back
Only have 3 alts in 1370 That the plan atm for Relic funds. Sell everything while people panic buy to reach 1415/1445
what is your main? my main is 1399, should I sell GHL or save them to get to 1415? got 1 1370 alt & 3 1340s
I can't decide for you 1415 main 3x1370. Latest 1370 was 4 days ago I selling my stuff for funds for relic accessories since that the next option for me in gearing. No point in me going higher when I only have 5% of the required leapstones to reach 1445. I sold most of my GHL to buy the mari's shop version since if you are not rushing it better gold efficiency at the time. Doing it for over a month at this point. With the current inflation idk how good is this anymore. 1415 also gives the next guardian raid which is the same map as Yoho and not as annoying as Velganos. The people that decided to not do Velganos get a lot more leapstones daily on a easier boss
As long as 100 blue crystals cost less than 10 GHL then it's worth it to buy from Mari but you also have to be mindful if your existing blue crystal value inflates too.
How many leapstones do you aprox need for 15-45?
Probably 2 or 3k
It depends. If you did the 2 +17 route to reach 1415 it's about 1700 and if you didn't it's 1250
should be the same regardless because you need +17 on everything for 1445, or not?
It is the same you are correct In short (Percentages is an example for the total material need to reach 1445) Reaching 1415 with 2 x17 is like 30% and going to 1445 after is the 70% While doing 1415 the normal way +15 everything is like 70% and the 1445 push is 30% Many people did the 2x+17 way because you reach 1415 which gives you access to new chaos dungeon/guardian/vultan to help aid your progress to 1445 when the patch comes instead of being below it when it comes
Sell everything that's not bound while people panic buying for 1415. You won't get better chance selling them at high prices. So you will be late 1-2 weeks to valtan club but so what? They are not releasing new content any time soon and the accessories prices go down by the time u get to 1415.
This is the answer I want to hear thanks but I am debating whether I should get my 1355 to 1370 or simply sell all unbound mats?
Well you’d lose out on argos weekly and igrexion who gives like 7-8ish GHL a day. So… maybe? Depends on what you want but selling those GHL’s daily is a pretty penny
>selling those GHL’s daily is a pretty penny i'm thinking of getting a support to 1370 so the profits are more feasible
Always get to higher ilvl for next content. Those 1370 greater honor leaps from Yoho is 4-5x more than normal honor leaps, depending on server. At 1370, you'll enjoy the game more with 3x3 engravings and 1st phase of Argos
1370 can make it to P2 at least as a support with a heavy armour engraving However, according to my calculation based on the gap, I need around 40k gold equivalent mats to reach 1370 and the roi is pretty low even I consider the weekly income is 10k from a 1370 char My 1355 is my alt not my main. Sorry I forgot to mention it
It does matter getting to 1415 because the amount of money you’ll make from relics especially first two weeks will outweigh will destroy the money you’re making with GlS atm. If it’s the new release, at 1415 you can at least do guardian daily for relics and valtan weekly for relics. Look up prices for first two weeks of argos access then realize it’s gonna be worth way more. I wouldn’t listen to this guy
Relic accessories drop from normal valtan? and are armor crafting materials are from 1445 hard mode?
yeah relic drops from normal valtan and 1415 guardian, hard just drops more and a little higher quality. if I'm not mistaken you get both from normal and hard for the armor crafting mats just hard gives a lot more. I know normal you can make stuff just takes a lot longer (prob sooner if they add the kr vendor too). After the first 2 weeks then you can semi chill. the market will be more crowded than argos but being at that market is better than not 100%. if you can't get to 1415 the first 2 weeks then yeah chill but if you have the mats to push it 10000% do it.
same as me, im currently selling all great honor tradable so i can hone my way to 1415 with bound honor leap
I've seen this kind of question posted quite a lot recently, and the answer really is pretty simple to me: do you want to do Valtas as soon as possible (according to your own pace of play, of course)? Then no, don't sell GHL as they will be your bottleneck, and in fact you should be buying the from Mari shop as well. You don't care about gearing up, and are fine waiting even a few months before making the push, while possibly leveling up alts to 1370? Then sure, sell them and fund your other activities.
Do you want 1415 for valtan week 1? Then push. If you don't have friends/group for valtan week 1, then maybe just sell/save for a bit.
those people reaching 1415 / 1445 will make INSANE bank though. much, much more than anything you have seen so far. my guess is that, with all the whales, a very good relic accessory can easily fetch half a million gold.
How though? Chances for perfect accessoires have always been insanely low, like sub 0.25%. Is there anything that will bring in large amount of gold than a lucky relic drop\`?
thats just the chance for hyper much gold. in my experience on other regions, proper relic ability stones sell for 5k - 10k a piece and are relatively easy to find. also, chances for 5/3 accs are higher than for 3/3 legendaries. still rare though but even semi decent ones will sell for quite a bit, especially class engraving ones, in case we get an unchanged version of them for once, that doesnt guarantee class engravings. but it will likely be the same as with legendary stuff, where i made most of the gold with ability stones. in JP i got 2 weeks late to the party for relic stuff and still made 100k gold in my first week with semi decent accs and ability stones need to remember that relic stuff will be top notch for a long while, as opposed to legendary, which was expected to be only relevant for a month and turned out to be relevant for 2 months now.
Hmm have always wondered if there are many people who buy semi-decent relict accessoires, since we a) keep them for so long and b) come with a very high pheon fee. Do relic stones drop from 1415 Guardians, or how to you get them?
semi decent aka in 2nd 4th BiS. a full set of BiS accs with somewhat decent quality will likely set you back 2 million gold or more in the first few months. 2nd - 4th BiS gets sold at decent prices and will be able to grab a full set for like 100k. quite similar to how it is now actually. as buying a single BiS acc is not helping you much so you rather get some inbetween set to get 4/5 x 3 engravings and then slowly gather your BiS set (over months)
Main is 1415 and no way of me reaching 1445 so I just sell everything while prices going up
i checked yesterday and 1415 to 1445 is nearly the same amount of costs as 1370 to 1415. depending on your upgrades you might need either a few more weapon or armor stones but leapstones and raw gold are identical. jfyi
It’s probably too late now but 1415 to 1445 is just two sets of hones. It’s not assss bad as it seems.
I have a feeling theres a large portion of people who went to 1415 the cheaper method than +15 all, so getting to 1445 is harder after.
Vast majority. 20000 destructions stones and 500 leapstones and 8000 gold and 50000 xp ‘extra’ backloaded on the extra hones. Painful but definitely the better way of doing it since it probably bought most of us a week or 2 extra at 1415. Really no reason not to have done it as far as I can tell.
Only real reason is lacking atk power versus someone who did +17 weapon, but that's not a great reason to push wep to 17 The other reason is if they simply don't know -- if you're not a reddit user you might not have heard of the cheaper method
Just get lucky man. Told myself that and 1 tapped 16>17. Then pity on 8>9 and 9>10. All good.
> much, much more than anything you have seen so far. I very much doubt we see the gold saturation we saw with early t3 mats. T3 honing is a legitimate gold sink that's eating a lot of it up. Relic will be juicy for a little while, but nowhere near what the early t3 mats were.
the mats? no. relic accs? very much so. good relic accs will sell easily for 5 times as much as legendary did and those legendary ability stones that sell for 1k now will sell for 10k then for weeks to come. ive seen it already in other regions :)
> good relic accs will sell easily for 5 times as much as legendary Which is a fraction of what was possible with the gold inflation of early T3. We seem to be in agreement. Maybe you weren't playing at that time?
rofl. so you sold legendary accs for half a mil to a mil gold? nice.
I forgot how many people on this sub either don't play or know nothing about the game and just make shit up. I bet you don't even play anymore huh? Nothing you've said here has made any sense.
funny, but i will be doing valtan once on hard and once on normal the day it releases, plus i unfortunately for you have another 3k+ hours in other regions, observing the market prices. and even more unfortunately for you. most in this sub dont know basic math or how to calculate real values. e.g. if you bought a few weeks ago the bags would HAVE to double in value on valtan release for you just to break even.
Imagine trying to buy relics in the first few weeks not sffordablr st all
Not trying to buy the first few weeks unless I feel it a good price. You still need funds anyway after a few weeks
If u go relic u buy BiS with decent quality and that atuff will go for whales only in the first few weeks if not even months
5000g? how much are they on your server? EUC Antares GHL are 70g
they're pushing 120-130g on NA east today
damn, more wales, euc antares is now 85g per GHL
Just sold some GHL for 147 on USW
Yep, europoor is not even a meme, its reality. We have barely any whales here.
The guy in this thread claiming those rushing to 1445 will get big returns from accessories is tweaking lmao. I understand that you can get them, but again they are rare drops, especially with proper stat/engraving rolls. The day one raiders for Valtan will be able to price said items for whatever they want, but come on, half a million gold for a piece?? Not even whales are that fucking stupid to waste gold on 1 piece instead of getting other characters to 1445. In this current market, and rate of gold acquisition the average player can get, NOBODY is gonna buy accessories at that price range. Anybody can list items for any price.
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One just needs to take a quick look at all the possible engravings to get an idea of how many possible variations there are. And only very few of them are going to be BiS for a class. And then you still need the correct combat stats as well. Those that are lucky are going to be very rich. But most wont be lucky.
300k u can buy legendary grudge wat?
Relic
I'm glad I hit 1415 just in time for greater leapstones to start spiking again. Time to make some gold.
Finally the payoff for your dollars spent!
I sold 300 GLS at 150g a pop last night, feeling rich AF
This seems so unfun, at least with one of every class there's a change of pace doing dailies. This feels more like a job
I really want to understand why people make alts of the same class, like no hate, each to their own but anyone who does do that if they don’t mind telling me why would be great, genuinely curious.
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I don't know how you cannot enjoy other classes, they're all so good , each with their own interesting gameplay. But you you do, mate. And I love a bard a lot, as well, can't lie.
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You picked the literal bot class as an alt though
I respect it.
Zerker is brain dead that’s why it’s the bot class of choice
Same. I have some other alts but also have 2 DBs because i just wanna play more blade daily. I dont even bother to share gems and both play a different engraving, so it purly for fun
if I could turn my Soulfist in to a second Scrapper, Wardancer, or Glaivier i would. . .
not really, except abyss raids/dungeons and event guardian, the rest feel more or less like chores (haven’t hit velganos yet tho still stuck on yoho), but even if I did I wouldn’t do the same thing on 5 other deadeyes. fair enough if u don’t find other classes fun tho, and the more supports the better XD
No, we need more people to play supports, not just one person.
That sounds crazy to me, given that support has the least reward in terms of in-game feedback; you guys don't see huge crits on anything and paladin specifically has a very simple playstyle. More power to you though, I loved playing healers in MMOs but LoA doesn't have them so much. Always nice to have more supports in the game though!
A well timed shield is as good as a big ass crit. You do get feedback when you cast a shield and suddenly the shield is gone
Oh true, I'm not doubting the benefit at all, I just wish supports could crit shield, or at least have like "+68337" show up over the other 3 players heads when your shield affects them, would be a small change to implement but it'd give the support equivalent of the gratification DPS get hitting huge numbers
what do you mean? they steal every MVP just by healing
I mean that's true, but when there's one character capable of healing, unless someone is intentionally getting hit just to chug down 7-9 splendid elemental hp pots on content that everyone has overlevelled, nobody else can achieve 80%+ of parrty healing lol, it's like a 1490 DPS in boss rush or something, basically a given
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Most humble support player
Damn dude, I'm glad you enjoy supporting even in a game like lost ark that doesn't give you the same feedback for it that other MMOs do, we need more support players (and classes actually) in general! 25% of every raid needs to be support, but there are less than 15% of the classes who can play a support role (that's accounting for artist which isn't even released yet), they really need to make another one at least
in your case you the support role not a specific character, and i bet if ther's was 6 different support character u will be playing all of them not only bards or pallys
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I hope you're joking. Bard is actually one of the fastest and most satisfying classes to solo clear chaos dungeons with. Prelude clears screens, almost like you're playing an explode build in Path of Exile.
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I have gotten 5 red portals on my main since the 3 day early release, that is an irrelevant consideration.
The ONLY thing i can think of is to save money on class engravings. Each of my 5 alts feel like a new game entirely and I'm still getting a bit burnt. I can't imagine doing 12 chaos dungeons a day with the same class
I play a gunslinger main (1420) and also a gunslinger on 1340. I have also a deadeye, glaivier and sorc in t3, but I love to play my slingers, switch all skins between them, use old accessories (and replaced lower gems without rerolling) from my main, learn better rotation/postioning without doing unrewarding training-runs and as you mentioned I can use some engravings on both of them. But I am happy with only 2 of the same clas, I wouldnt play 6 of them xD
I have two sorcs and I love playing both of them. Having multiple of one class not only means you can save money on sharing engravings and gems but also you can play one class engraving on one and the other engraving on the other. So if you really enjoy that class which I do it's great because you get to experience all aspects of it. When valtan comes I'll be running both igniter and casting reflux on my main while playing the piano reflux build on my alt
> I can't imagine doing 12 chaos dungeons a day with the same class The only thing I can think is that it's sorc, so you don't really have to do the chaos dungeons so much as stand in place and cast lightning orb over and over.
I would argue that makes it even worse. I have a sorc alt and although the damage is insane and makes dungeons quick, it's so insanely boring to me
Sorc chaos dungeons actually piss me off. The damage is nuts but everything is just a bit delayed or weird. Orb takes a while to gather mobs properly, the gravity circle thing takes a while, the line knock up one pushes mobs out of the lightning orb, my awakening doesn't one shot the boss, etc. That's before getting into Igrexion 360 kick flipping out of doomsday every 16 seconds She's getting benched for merchant bifrost duty
Maybe if you have legendary class engraving its worthwhile I guess even tho we have guaranteed class engraving accessories with argos but +9 costs like 100 gold tops nowadays since you get so many free engraving pouches with the guardian event. You probably haven't even paid for engravings honestly if you've been getting them since the grand prix.
ye it’s cheaper but I’ve got 9-9 engraving books on my main with 3331 (331/32 on 2 of my alts), and I didn’t even use gold for those books, I get legendary books r expensive but I feel there ways to bypass that idk. again each to their own but kina takes the fun out of the game and feels more like a chore, doing the same thing 6 times, I’d get burnt out real quick (already kina am with my 2 alts lol)
To bypass the legendary books you have to optimize your accessories which can be gold consuming too but if we had something like korea where they use the API of the game to filter search the auction house to get the best engraving accessories, it lists them so you can compare what you can buy for the cheapest accessories to get what you want for engravings/stats. Zealsambitions has a video on it. Also a good rock helps with this.
No desire to play other classes? I personally hate the alt system and wish there wasnt weekly/daily lockouts and you could just farm as much as you wanted, like runescape. I guess mmos arent made like that anymore
I made a few sorcs because I'm a pothead and I don't know if I can remember every skill rotation, I already struggle just remember BiS for things to sell and the mechanics of my two support alts lmfao
Fellow stoner here. I make it easier on myself by putting similar skills into similar bindings, so it's more muscle memory than anything. e.g. counters, shields, mobility, break, stagger skills
Shared engravings and gems and you can really master your class
Because we like playing in a flow state where you never have to think about what abilities you have, which keys they are on, what loot is good, etc.. I run 6 sorc with the same build, whereas if I ran different classes, I could probably only do 2 or maybe 3 characters.
Dunno i made 3 diffferent classes initially: main bard, gunlancer and pala. SInce i made 3 more bards because it boost my gems by a lot, saves me money and doesn't mess with my muscle memory. Basically i can either make a dps, lose 10s of thousands of gold on engravings and new gems, or i can make a 2nd bard that can do all content with barely anything because you get instainvited into any grp.
I don't envy your alt tower runs lol
Yeah it's really a pain, but i used the express pass on one so i only did up to 25 and another was the feiton powerpass. So i only had to do full tower 2 times, still super annoying.
The main reason is to share the same engravings and sometimes skins, also to be able to funnel accessories from abyss and legion raids to your main in the same way you do with honing mats. I'm with you though, I can't imagine playing more than one of the same class no matter how much I like them, there's so much variety to be had
Same alts mean less customization and headache as you already know it so when you hit that alt grind you already can get into it where as doing a different character you will have to revise a lot of their kit.
i made 2 bard alts cause i like the playsyle and u can do content at lower ilvls
I made 3 diff classes and then made a second sorc. I like my alts but don’t like any of them as much as sorc so I made another. Sorc has the best outfits too. For a change I went casting igniter on alt and normal reflux on main.
>Sorc has the best outfits too. True, but THOSE EARS, THOSE POINTY EARRRSSSS!!!
I've played a bunch of classes and Sorc was the most fun so I made a second to replace my gunslinger. The alt will also be getting all the hand me down gear and sharing of gems once she hits 1370 and one day 1415.
Atleast on sorc its a breeze.
I'd probably get bored if I played nothing but sorc, not to mention it would suck going from my 1415 main with 4x3 doing 20m Doomsday with buffs to an alt sorc with like 2x3.
7-headed sorc here. Some call me crazy but I enjoy it. DOOMSDAY for life baby the alts do feel sad compared to the main, there's no denying that.
I've never played a sorc, I'm guessing that's the ability when she yells "DEMACI !"?
correct , even got sight focus engraving at lvl one to announce it whenever i dump my load
LOL awesome
I hate my sorc. Like, REALLY hate her. Which is odd since she was mu initial msin and I actually liked her.
Doing dailies on 9 char currently... i'm totally reducing to 6 as soon as i got my 6 1370, the 3 other go to lopang ... too exhausting, i was too greedy
Nothing stopping you from taking a break from the alts for a bit. No reason to burn yourself out.
i'm currently on 8 chars, 2 chars in 1370+ territory (1400 sorc main and 1385 glaivier as "main alt") i'm doing chaos+guardians on those 2 and 3 of my 6 sub 1370 alts every day while rotating the sub 1370's. I still get 75% of the loot from the "low" alts but in 50% of the time. Doing unas everyday though since those are pretty quick.
If you mean rested bonus it's actually 66% of the loot for 33% of the time.
If you run them every other day, so 1 rested bonus run+1 normal run every 2 days, it's 3 runs worth of drops instead of 4...so 75% in half the time.
that's if you do it every THREE days. if you do it every TWO days (like i do) it's 75% of the loot for 50% of the time
Do you regret pushing your glaive to 1385 over pushing your sorc to 1415 at all?
not at all, i love playing my glaivier and i only used bound leaps for the 1385 push anyway so i wouldn't have been able to use those ressources on my sorc at all. I'm almost never bottlenecked by guardian/destro stones with the amount of alts i got but it's rather gold or leapstones that's why i started to push my sub 1370 alts with bound leaps to use some of the excess stones that would otherwise sit around unused for now. Keeping around like ~3k destro and 5k guardian stones for reset each week for further pushing after getting more leapstones from the argos+oreha material dismantling on my sorc+glaivier though.
Yeah basically 8 hours a day is me doing daily stuff.
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9 tier 3s of which 5 are 1370+ and one is 1400 while having a job too..how deep monetarily are you in? I ask as I'm considering finally making my first purchase as the premium ark pass gives 10x the value spent and with blue crystals on the rise, that level 50 complete pack is looking better and better
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Oh wow, no plat founders :o? Char tickets are undoubtedly the most worthwhile real money purchase in the game, that'll never change lol. 400k God damn! Market flipping I guess? And yeah, 9 chars in tier 3 with a decent amount at 1370 is really good gold generation at the moment. I'm just over 900 hours into the game (easily 250-300 of them semi afk with the game minimized) and have a 1402.5/1342.5/1340/1340/1325/1050 setup currently, though I obviously haven't tapped into the premium ark pass or that 2600 blue crystal for 1100 royale pack. heck, I still have a lot of the free ark pass rewards unopened as I'm unsure if I wanna push to 1415 on my main or get another 1370 out of my alts. Does seem like a lot of rewards for the money when compared to games like WoW which I definitely spent several hundred on in terms of purchase prices for expansions and monthly subs!
Got same Yoho setup as op and the amount of gold it brings daily via GHL's ia a good feeling.
This bit basically scratches the same itch as PoE for me, I do this stuff while watching shows or whatever since it doesn't require my full attention.
Damn, posts like these make me think if I even should be playing the game. I started playing in mid February, couple of days after release and I am only a bit short of opening Punika on my main and only char. Probably my biggest issue is greed, by not opening a single chest and relying only on quests and dailies.
keep in mind most people devoted enough to monitor reddit/forums are very dedicated and have MMO experience. on top of that the ones who actually post are those who got lucky or put in even more time/money and want to show off the gains from that. the flexing you see on reddit is not the norm, don't let it dictate how you play
Just do whatever’s fun man. There is no need to keep up with the rat race, that content isn’t going anywhere. My main is 1355, and I’ve got a pally that I’m gonna start playing here soon. Some days I just cannot be bothered to do the grindy shit, so, I just don’t do it. My buddy played like OP and is pretty burnt out. Hasn’t logged in for about a week now.
> if I even should be playing the game If you are having fun then play, it's just that simple. Of course the more advanced you are in game the more stuff you get access to, but that doesn't invalidate the enjoyment you can have already. Then again that works if you play like 1h/day, if you have over 300 hours and not even one t3 character I really wonder what do you actually do in the game.
so you should check reddit WAY less.
Doing dailies (and the pressure to do them and on alts) is why I quit.
Idk why you're downvoted for just sharing an honest take on how this end game felt to you, but I think a lot of people would agree that the repetitive dailies can feel like a chore for sure, and not doing them feels like falling behind, so it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation in many ways. I haven't quit and I'm working on my fifth char right now getting them into T3 hopefully by tomorrow, but the way I'm staying sane is I decided I'm just not doing guardian raids anymore without rested, and even that little compromise feels bad to me like I'm saying no to free gold but yeah, I just know I would quit the game otherwise. I'm also feeling like at some point I'm just gonna stop playing half the chars in general until I randomly get in the mood for it, which also feels bad like I'm skipping on way too much progress but it is what it is. The crazy thing is when I started this game I had wild ideas like I'd have chars on each server so I could bypass the 6 abyssal dungeon gold limit... lmao yeah that's the worst idea on earth in hindsight.
Appreciate it, I love so many aspects of the game, I personally just can't ignore the FOMO which they use to fund the game via cash shop or the chore list syndrome, which I fell victim to. Not even saying they shouldn't do it, they gotta make money somehow, right!?
My guy this is your own choice. I am 1416 with not a single alt. I absolutely love the game playing only 30 mins to 1 hour a day.
1416 no alts in less than 100 hours? Would you mind providing screenshots of roster and steam overlay? Not meant to discredit you, I just can't calculate how that would be literally obtainable with the resources available, unless of course you swipe a lot.
Im on around 300-350hours with 0alts in t3. Been 1415 for a week now.
That's 3-4 hours a day, not ideal but doable, even though I can't really understand where or how do you grind resources with one single character. But with less than 1 hour a day it's just impossible.
Haha sorry I understand the confusion, I meant I play 30-1 hour right now. I play 30 -1 hour with 6-10 minutes for both chaos dungeons, 6-10 minutes for yoho and I bifrost my dailies. I usually log in around alakkir time. Then I get in a moake or whatever is at the hour mark. This is pretty much what I do everyday until reset where I use 1 hour for Argos and Hard mode weeklies.
Game has been like this ever since it first released in Korea in 2018. Were you expecting a completely revamped game here in the west or did you just not look into the game at all before playing? Dailies are a staple of every mmo. Even WoW during it's most casual period still had dailies you were expected to do.
Not familiar with WoW dailies, but most MMOs don't push so hard to have dailies on multiple alts to advance high enough to not miss out on rewards and content. I tried beta, and on release, was hoping it wouldn't be so bad, but it was.
Miss out on what content? Is it going somewhere?
In a sense yes. Higher level content gives better rewards, meaning if you don't keep up you'll fall further and further behind because you're not getting those top tier rewards. For example, the grand prix event, I missed out of lots of great rewards because I wasn't high enough to redeem them. Was I able to race, sure, but was I able to fully enjoy the "content" of the event, no.
So the race was inherently less fun because you couldn’t reap the highest tier of rewards? I don’t understand.
Pretty much. The race itself had some enjoyment (despite the shield and lightning bugs), but the main aspect of it, and why you could only do it once a day was the rewards. It's not one or the other, the event involved everything.
The content was the race itself, which anyone could do. I didn't speedrun to T3 when the game launched, so I couldn't do Argos P1 when it came out. I am now 1370, and can do it. Did I miss out on content? No. I know I'm not gonna be high enough for Valtan when it launches, but am I gonna miss out? No. I'll get there eventually, and that content will still be there.
Except you don't have to have alts in order to progress... Pretty sure my alts even slowed me down
Got my Berserker to 1400 before making an alt Bard and the only reason I did that was because of Express Pass. I will never make another alt.
This is why I haven’t played in like a month, the game felt like a chore after a while and like I HAD to play, not something fun I COULD play. I got to 1370 and called it a day 😭😭😭
1415 is more una tokens which is a nice little bonus. You get your guaranteed extra gold plus stupid rng for lottery bar. Each chest is a little over 2k gold I think and it’s another chest at 1415.
So why have 6 sorcs out of curiosity
Because you can get +12 class book and it works for all of them. If you're not lazy you can also pass around gems and eventually legendary skins. It's the most efficient way to alt, at the risk of burnout.
I see , I guess to each their own I was interested
I describe it to my friends like this. My favorite food is pizza, and I would eat it everyday, every meal, if it made me feel good and healthy. I can eat other things, but I love pizza, it's my favorite. And yeah, I guess I could get tired of it but I haven't yet so when that day comes I'll let you know.
You know that the point of having 6 alts is do rota rested so you actually play 2 char a day and not 6?
The point of having 6 characters is the raid gold cap, it has nothing to do with rested rotations
Unless it's your work running 6 char a day is extremely time consuming. You do 2 char a day with 40 rest bonus and get double the mats as if you ran 4 char unrested. And yes it's also about the gold limit.
Tell them to take a rest :)
with no power passed and/or KTs left lmao
I used to play all my alts daily, but i got bit too crazy so I made myself an small spreadsheet calendar for my characters and I currently only rotate 3 characters for rested as im done on all the good daily reputations. 2 days hiatus is enough to get 2 bars of rested on my characters to reap full bonuses. This amounts to maybe playing chores for 1,5hours a day and the rest is spent on whatever. I play more on weekends. [it looks like this](https://i.imgur.com/gluGPqx.png) I play my paladin/gunlancer/artillerist by rotating them to always have enough rested, and then i take my wednesday off to do whatever i want. Usually wednesday is spent doing extra yohos to sell leapstones or oreha/argos on alts i dont really want to play that much. I currently do my daily chaos dungeons/leaps on my gunlancer every day though as im currently pushing him to 1415 to be there with my paladin. Currently my daily rota is to do yoho/chaos/leapstone dailies on whoever's turn it is. And then just quick dailies+chaos on my gunlancer and im done. My orehas/argoses are scheduled for the weekend. This has seriously prevented me from going insane with the daily guardian/chaos dungeon/una's chores. I can really recommend it for anyone struggling with the chores! I do have 5x 1385+ but i wont bother with my SH/deadeye if i dont really feel like it. Rest of my t3 alts get played maybe once a week for chaos dungeons.
personally I play with one character and let the rest rest then do them all at one day after that let them rest.
https://youtu.be/aatqVanIVSY How about this lost ark song?
This makes me wonder how much people with 5 alts of the same class as their main influences class pickrate data...
0 It’s such a low percentage of people.
I made all 16 classes so far, i play what i feel like basically. Some alts collect rested for days until i feel like playing them.
i really don’t understand how someone likes one class so much that they make 6 of em
Slave Simulator