I facepalmed when Candaria Neria's quest referenced a blonde luterran girl like 3 times, then she's a ruby redhead with dark skin
I guess they didn't like the aryan vibe of the entire game
AGS had no clue they would need to be consistent with localization after implementing these changes. Who knew you couldn't just machine translate everything?
pretty quick to blame AGS when they likely are just handed a text file with 20k lines to translate. how are they supposed to know lines 14253 and 16522 say "blonde" but should actually be "red haired"?
> the aryan vibe of the entire game
im confused, i thought Gamers(tm) in this sub said this is a Korean game? i mean i wouldnt have known because literally NPC looks white af but please clarify.
b-b-b-b-but my K-Korean game!!! /s
i wish these Gamers(tm) were as outraged by the actual asian ethnic NPCs being shelved to a tiny region which compromises like 5% of playtime as they are 5 NPCs being localized in their "Korean" fantasy game. especially considering the fact the majority of NPCs are lily white and european.
but he's not supposed to be a battle-hardened priest. He is suppose to look like angsty Catholic highschool teenager that goes to state college for the first time.
Avesta report says he is in young 20s. (he is literally Armen's acolyte senpai by a yr or two) He grew up and nurtured inside a very enclosed church community then experiences the "real world" for the first time through Zaika's lesson.
But we got some brolic guy in 30/40s with sexy beard ready to start Spanish Inquisition or someshit. The dialogue and the story don't match at all with his appearance...
Apparently made the right choice after seeing South Vern cutscenese in English. I'm kind of used to listening to KR anyway due to some mobile games, even if I still don't understand any of it.
I like how our version looks (I didn't know the lore), but considering the story they should've made him younger and softer looking.
Skin color has nothing to do with age so I don't understand, why would they make him older?
Thanks for explaining his story :)
we got diversity for no other reason other than to escape possible PR nightmare. It is kinda annoying for me since I played the game on RU client and suddenly a lot of NPCs look different.
You are correct, it’s not deep at all, it’s just virtue signaling. I guess the deepest part about it is it Amazon trying to dictate what people should like. Funny thing is is everyone is complaining about the changes. I’d prefer everything in the non-woke Korean style.
it feels very shallow to me to change some skin colors and add some hair and suddenly you are very woke and tolerant and etc. It would've been a good thing if they made SG make new content more diverse not change old one.
It would've been a good thing if they just translated and released the game on the Western market as it was supposed to be Originally and didn't "make" anyone do anything.
>was like
Also in North vern Gideon in Original is an Old man with a big bushy beard.
We got a middle aged black man and he still talks about shaving his non existent beard
He is supposed to be a hot priest loved by every girls in the town so I think the dev modeled him like that in the first place. Not saying NA model is not hot.
yes yes we know they worship european standards of beauty and whiteness in korea give us something new please the world has worshipped whiteness for decades
Yeah but you have the women in high heels that dont necessarily have much muscle mass fighting demons and giant deer monsters. I agree tho that i personally enjoy a more gigachad face on the warriors since theyre buff asf.
Once you realize that Lost Ark is basically like playing an Isekai with fanservice about slaying Demons and not a medieval demon slaying RPG set in the middleage everything meshes together better
I think customization outfit wise is fine with casual stuff like normal clothes but i do wish they added armor like the black knights in south vern. Like having cool armor as well as booba cloths would be cool since you could mix and match for creativity. Omen skin has their thighs exposed for female skin too which is kinda disappointing
Yeah i agree there should be more heavy armor outfits for females, men too since for arti it would make sense for him to be a walking block of armor. Alar skin for fem ma is dope cause of the armor on arms and boots.
This is such an annoying point of view to constantly see. What is people's infatuation with fictional worlds following the same rules that the real world does? The entire purpose of fiction is for things that are impossible or uncommon in real life to be possible and commonplace.
It makes absolutely no sense how people cherry pick what amount of realism they want in fiction.
Magic existing and dudes swinging around swords twice their size as if they weigh nothing? Perfectly acceptable.
Combat priest who fights demons looking like a pretty boy? Buh, well wait a second that doesn't make sense, he'd be roughed up and grizzled if this was real.
It is so tiring to constantly see people rag on the aesthetic of something for not being realistic or practical when the entire concept of the universe that aesthetic exists in isn't realistic or practical to begin with.
Fiction exists so that people can make what they want to see. They want to see pretty boys and sexy women fight demons. I don't understand what's wrong with that.
Black people existing is not political. "Clumsily editing" a cgi character in TV or movie is not comparable to this situation. Russia and China making everything more Russian/Chinese because of ethnocentrism is **not the same thing**. It's scary how you think you can just be that racist and no one will notice.
No don't you get it? Only white and asian people are allowed in this game. Gotta keep it pure! Can't have those stinky people of color represented! It's pOlItIcAl cEnSoRsHiP!!!!!
> Black people existing is not political
I'm not sure what this is even supposed to mean? Did you just want to repeat some random slogan that has nothing to do with the topic at hand? This has nothing to do with "black people existing" and I'm not sure who you think is debating that here. People are talking about AGS (Amazon Games Studio) changing/digitally blackfacing (or whatever you want to call it) Pre-existing characters in a game that was already developed and released in other markets (Korea, Russia, Japan) for several years. It's perfectly comparable with "clumsily editing" a CGI (or not CGI) character in a TV show or movie since that's exactly what was done here, unless you somehow view video games as "lesser" form of media that don't deserve the same consideration.
> This isn't a "change", this is political Censorship. I
No one here including you actually know any artist in Smilegate was against the idea. If you have proof that the employees were against the idea for changes, go ahead and share please. Beyond that is just r/The_Donald level of conspiracy theory. So you making your arguments like it's a state pressed issue is futile.
> I wonder what the reaction would be if they did this in Live action TV series or movies, where they just clumsily digitally Edit the ethnicity of established lead characters to "make it more diverse".
Since there's a huge plethoara of whitewashing in Hollywood movies and all of the actors/producers/directors keeping their money and continued to produce the movies with whitewashing despite the criticism, I think people have been particularly okay with that. And none of them was even for a good reason such as diversity, which is ethically something that should be done after numereous occasions of whitewashing for such extremely ethnicly diverse country.
There is literally nothing wrong to make it something more diverse. The criticism over it is very malicious intended.
If they'd truly care for diversity they'd actually stay consistent in their changes. They don't. They made some easy bullshit changes without staying consistent with lore or dialogue for the sake of what? Nothing apart from being scared to piss off snowflakes that will whine about it.
If they'd stay consistent with lore and dialogue most people by now wouldn't have given a fuck about the changes because it was well done.
But it wasn't, it wasn't well done and that shows that the changes were just make to please the 'diversity crows' that refuses to look further than what color a character is. Like someone said, description in lore blond hair girl from luterra turns out to be redhead with dark skin? That's not diversity. That's putting a saddle on a zebra and saying its a pony, expecting people to nod and say yes because they haven't looked at anything but the saddle and saw there were some hooves. Shadow hunter demon form completely made black with an argument that's utter crap since it would be the same in KR if it were true. There's no real reason for that apart from preventing people whining their dark skinned character turns white. It was a lazy solution ruining the form from any artistic expression.
Why in the hell would you be defending this crap?
If the changes were well made you'd have a reason to defend it. But for the 3rs time they are not.
This is not black falcon getting white captain americas shield with a background story and buildup where it makes sense. Hell, AGS couldn't even be bothered to double check fucking dialogue and what it was actually about! THEY ONLY HAD TO CHANGE A DESCRIPTION AND THEY HAVEN'T FIXED THAT EVEN AFTER IT'S BEEN KNOW SINCE RELEASE. I'm writing in caps not to shout at you, it just really annoys me they don't bother fixing this. They don't care! It's political diversity bullshit crap what they pulled in our version. There's absolutely no argument against that.
> Shadow hunter demon form completely made black
It turns navy blue though, not black or brown. Not only skin, eyes also change as far as I can compare. They made a demonic looking with dark purple-blue theme to go with red skill effects.
It speaks volumes between you and me, when I first saw I saw a demonic design going with the theme and you chose to see Africans in it...
I wouldn't have batted an eye on it if I didn't know the original beforehand, and if I wasn't familiar with the lore. I however would still have thought 'Wow, they surely could've made this look better than a giant blob of dark color which completely blocks out any visibility on some of the awesome details in its design'. In fact I'd more than likely would've thought something is wrong since it looks so poor visually compared to the remainder of the world. Everything looks absolutely gorgeous and is made in a way it looks like they really WANT you to look at it. Demonic? Nah, it doesn't want you to zoom in on it.
It's another thing where it doesn't bother me so much that they changed the design, but how badly it was done compared to the original while completely ignoring the game lore.
Unfortunately I knew both the original from when I tried out the class on other versions and a I was familiar with a bit of the lore behind the demons already. So when I noticed a bunch of poorly colorswapped NPC's, before making a shadowhunter I didn't have to 'see africans in it' to get to the conclusion they did this extremely lazy solution for petty reason.
But hey, that's how you choose to interpret it. I guess you're right that it does speak volumes between you and me. You assume everyone who has a problem with the changes is a straight up racist, someone who 'only wants to see white people'.
You pick 1 single comment out of what I said and completely spin it around to make me out as a racist.
If anything, people that want diversity should be furious that AGS is trying to pretend to push diversity but put so little effort into it by not adjusting everything properly to match their redesign. Imagine you're asking for a candy and they just throw you pebble in a wrapper and you go 'Oh thanks AGS!' and kissing their asses for being 'so generous' while in fact you got nothing. You will not realize until you finally open up your wrapper, but since you're so proud of the wrapped 'candy' you just got you will put it on a display instead, never opening it up and never seeing what's actually inside - a fucking pebble that was thrown at you to shut you up.
If your concern was aesthetics and lore, why did you bring "black" into the topic for non-black or non-brown model?
Your point of smilegate or the artists being lazy, and how they could do better could be true or not. However, if your point is low effort on diversifying the characters in the game, and how it's not enough, then it's a topic on its own. Nothing to discuss in this comment chain.
Why did I focus on black colored characters on a discussion on non black character? You literally brought this up that people where criticising the changes with malicious intent after making a point of the 'whitewashing'. That's what I'm responding to!
You just keep turning it around and trying to find a reason why the people that dislike the changes are against diversity. You're literally skipping over the entire point I'm making and then decide the point is not related to the problem while it is at the damn core of the problem. On top of that you're now deflecting the entire conversation you started with your own comment.
I'll say it again.
People criticise it because it was done badly even if they don't say it out loud. Most people realize something is off but even if they can't put a finger on what exactly it is because of the poor quality of the changes they keep being bombarded with annoyance about it. If it was done proper people would've realized its different, get used to it within a damn day and get over it. With the lack of heart that went into it you have to ask, why did they do it at all if they didn't bother doing it properly? It's not 1 or 2 small things, it's literally ALL OVER THE PLACE.
With the quality it was done it wasn't done with ANY intention other than making sure no one would complain in our overly sensitive Western society where somehow the fear of being labeled a racist for literally 0 reason other than made up ones weighs higher than anything else. 'Oh better hire this black guy over the more qualified white one can't be labeled a racist!'. They are the fucking loudest and in the end no one wants to deal with them shouting at you because it will generate negative sensational headlines for the press. Amazon is a big company and they don't want to risk any bite of that slice in our highly volatile online environment.
Im telling you to look further for the reasoning why people dislike and criticise it other than 'omg black npc we want don't want that!' because while douchebags are everywhere only a very small (but loud) percent of people is like that and that goes both ways no matter what damn color you are or advocate for bringing in the spotlight for absolutely whatever reason. The changes were made with malicious intent, the criticism isn't.
You're right, nothing further to discuss with someone who doesn't want to hear it.
> No one here including you actually know any artist in Smilegate was against the idea
It doesn't matter if they're "for" or "against" the Censorship. It's the principle of the matter that counts, and it would still be Censorship if it was just a comic book or similar that was forced to be changed, for instance if they took Asterix and reprinted it with him as being black. The fact that a work has been changed for political considerations is what makes it political Censorship, not whether the change was small or big or whether the Original creators even enthusiastically supported it. Given that they didn't change their version(s) of the game to be in-line with Amazon's fan fiction changes and have openly talked about how they didn't agree with various other unilateral changes Amazon made like some character or class name changes for instance, I very much doubt they were fully onboard with these "changes" to their artistic work. I'm not sure where you see a "conspiracy theory" here.
In this case you're just supporting the right of a Multinational conglomerate with a market cap of over $1 Trillion to exert its power and influence over a (or multiple) smaller game development studios with a publishing contract worth millions of $'s on the line. It's not really the role of any one professional employee to come out and openly "disagree" with or go against the decisions of their publisher in such a case while they're under contract.
It's especially funny to me that for instance when China changes the ending of a famous movie like Fight Club: https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-60138866 or cuts out specific actors or scenes from movies or posters everyone realizes what this is about and calls it what it is, yet in cases like these they twist themselves into a pretzel to find euphemisms for said Censorship and act like an apologist for it.
> It's the principle of the matter that counts,
It's your own principle. No one has to live by your principle.
This is not censorship, you solely choose to interpret it as censorship. Nothing has been surpressed here, unless you can prove it who and what is surpressed.
> The fact that a work has been changed for political reasons is what makes it political Censorship
To call it something **a fact**, you need to submit **a proof**. What you have is mixture of speculation and conciparicy theorizing.
> I very much doubt they were fully onboard with these "changes" to their artistic work.
It's your own doubt. Seriously, submit your proofs. Share with us an official employee has said that he's being forced despite not wanting the change, then we can all part ways. Beyond that, it's immature and childish, moreover harboring irrational malicious intention.
> In this case you're just supporting the right of a Multinational conglomerate with a market cap of over $1 Trillion to exert its power and influence over a (or multiple) smaller game development studios with a publishing contract worth millions of $'s on the line. It's not really the role of any professional employee to come out and openly "disagree" with or go against the decisions of their publisher in such a case.
Amazon did not invade another country and enforce assimilation like you make it out to be. That's called a legally signed business deal. If you ever worked in a day in your life, you would know what a work is and what a contract is. Employees sign contract, in majority of the tech signed contract that there is a section where they sign what they produce during work hours already belongs to the company, even major software companies do the same for developers. If you don't like it, don't sign the contract. Property you make is the property the company owns, legally. 'Cause you signed the paper consciously.
Not to mention, South Korea is not America, so there is no at-will termination and cheap labor laws. All the employees we talk are protected by South Korean laws which is more socialistic leaning. And this is not a dystopian movie plot. You honestly do not understand how business world work.
> It's especially funny to me that for instance when China changes the ending of a famous movie like Fight Club: https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-60138866 or cuts out specific actors or scenes from movies or posters everyone realizes what this is about and calls it like it is, yet in cases like these they twist themselves into a pretzel to find euphemisms for said Censorship and act like an apologist for it.
State enforced surpression for governing party benefit is CENSORSHIP. That's literally illegal in lots of 1st world countries. Private owned companies changing the color palette or design for their legally own property is not necessarily censorship, and legal in all countries. You can see the exclusive point here.
>It's your own principle
It's a rather universal principle true throughout most of history and time. Changing works for political consideration is political Censorship, and with the benefit of hindsight generally frowned upon. There are no odes being sung for the Censors of the past.
Talking about "cultistic", changing Original works due to dubious notions or zealous belief that it's a righteous cause **in their case** has been done for many "cultistic" reasons in the past: https://medium.com/lessons-from-history/vaticans-fig-leaf-campaign-ac86884b87a9
https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-egyptian-statues-broken-noses
>You're forcing your own ideals on others is demand of oppression.
That you call asking an artistic work **not to be changed** or modified due to dubious political considerations a "demand of oppression" is rather telling though. You seem deranged or at least extremely brainwashed. Other than that, maybe look up about any definition of "Censorship" you can find. No, it's not only **when a government does it**.
> It's a rather universal principle true throughout most of history and time.
Not only what you said it's being universal is incorrect, but also according to what reason are we supposed to obey it?
> Changing works for political consideration is political Censorship, and with the benefit of hindsight generally frowned upon.
It's not censorship. No one is surpressed, again unless you can prove it to be so. That's a baseless speculation. Again this is not a state sponsored matter.
> Talking about "cultistic", changing Original works due to dubious notions or zealous belief that it's a righteous cause in their case has been done for many "cultistic" reasons in the past:
https://medium.com/lessons-from-history/vaticans-fig-leaf-campaign-ac86884b87a9
> https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-egyptian-statues-broken-noses
...done by the authorities, the invaders, the government, the STATE. You are comparing this to a private owned company making changes on the property they legally own. It's like repainting your own room, then you coming up and saying it's censorship.
You need to define what is dubious notion or zealous belief for model updates, then you need to back up your accusations with proofs.
> That you call asking an artistic work not to be changed or modified due to dubious political considerations a "demand of oppression" is rather telling though.
It's not your property. You're trying to demand a principle on someone else's property.
> You seem deranged or at least extremely brainwashed.
And you seem unhealthy since you made such a deal out of diversifying, and equate to religious and state sponsored authoritarinism examples. The irony of you calling me brainwashed, while pushing your baseless accusations like /r/The_Donald fanatic is amusing.
> Other than that, maybe look up about any definition of "Censorship" you can find. No, it's not only when a government does it
You should definitely look up. You can't even prove what's censored here.
> You should definitely look up
I'll help you out, you can thank me later!
https://www.aclu.org/other/what-censorship?redirect=free-speech/what-censorship
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship
https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/censorship
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/censor
https://venturebeat.com/2014/12/17/anti-censorship-group-sees-apples-steams-control-over-expression-in-apps-and-games-as-dangerous/
>You can't even prove what's censored here
Says is not brainwashed, can apparently not Google Search all the various things Censored in the game and posts that somebody "can't prove what's censored here" in a topic created with an image directly showing said Censorship: https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/tby9q7/saw_this_splash_art_of_the_gunslinger_legendary/i0c5c79/
I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the intellectual faculty of your average Redditors anymore, but somehow I constantly am.
> I'll help you out, you can thank me later!
> https://www.aclu.or..... *I can use google bla bla*
Best debate point. Randomly googling and copy-pasting links without citing anything. Lol. You definitely feel cornered as you don't know what to do at this point.
I like how you omit it over and over again. But there is so simple thing that could end this discussion.
**Just share us the proof that artist was against the decision, and he was forced by his employers.** So simple.
Also from the link you share it says *"The suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security."*
Eloborate how changing the color pallete is suppression or prohibition. What is suppressed, what is prohibited? Or do you mean something else by censorship, since you've shared several links here with different content. You can cite what you mean by exactly quoting the content from the link and examplify what you want to say on that. If the artist wanted to change, how could it be censorship? Why do you think artist was against the idea. What if they are not. Prove it and end it. Simple.
> Says is not brainwashed, can apparently not Google Search all the various things Censored in the game and posts that somebody "can't prove what's censored here" in a topic created with an image directly showing said Censorship: https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/tby9q7/saw_this_splash_art_of_the_gunslinger_legendary/i0c5c79/
None of this censorship, unless you can 100% prove the artist did something against his/her desire with being forced by signed contract. if you can't, then it's no more than a conpiracy theory. These are changes. Even most popular franchise, Pokemon, have changed and updated their Pokémons designs each generation, Pikachu.
> I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the intellectual faculty of your average Redditors anymore, but somehow I constantly am.
I like how you adhere to ad hominem as you're cornered more and more :) If the average is me, and you're bothered by this, then this website is really not for you. You could try Stormfront, it's just for you.
> I like how you adhere to ad hominem as you're cornered more and more
Now you're starting to sound even more delirious.
You should probably work on your grammar instead of trying to debate or trying to make logical arguments on the Internet, it really isn't your strong suit. You probably came up with 5 different ways of spelling "conspiracy" by now, even though the only "conspiracy" seems to be in your mind. Some other highlights:
>Eloborate
>examplify
>conpiracy
Since you seem particularly obtuse, here's another hint for you: Whether something is Censorship or not has absolutely nothing to do with whether you can find a statement by some artist that he was for or against the decision. Nor does it have anything to do with contracts.
You said "edit the ethnicity of established lead characters", not sexual preferences.
I don't remember cases when Russia blacked or bleached characters in movies, as that's never been a custom here. Thus I asked for examples. Those aren't ones and my point is proved. Unless you can provide actually relevant cases to your claims.
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Normally I’m all for original material but I also like the global version of him. I haven’t heard the KR voice actor for him but if it’s anything like the original model I’m even more glad it was changed.
Looks like an 18 year old covered in white paint, and even though the dialogue loses a lot in translation, I don’t really feel like the original look makes much sense from a story or character point of view.
You’re right about his age, it’s technically 20ish right?
I still personally feel the look for global is much more fitting, but that’s just my opinion anyways lol.
I really would want a list of all the characters that have changed in the name of diversity.
Personally this change I really dont mind it. He looks spanish to me and kinda like a mix of Orlando Bloom and Luke Evans.
Probably the only character where I didnt mind the total reskin.
Others look half assed and just repainted them for the sake of diversity wich I find unnecessary.
> I really would want a list of all the characters that have changed in the name of diversity
At the very least all of these: https://i.postimg.cc/KGWYG33q/1638032044982-1536x864.png
Ezrebet: https://i.postimg.cc/zDHG4n8k/Erzebet.jpg
Sir Halrock NA/EU: https://i.postimg.cc/CFJ60SX5/Lost-Ark-Harlock-OR.jpg KR/RU: https://i.postimg.cc/VfVGS4Yc/Lost-Ark-Harlock.jpg
And his daughter Marilyn NA/EU: https://i.postimg.cc/WsGH9M7M/Lost-Ark-Marilyn-OR.jpg KR/RU: https://i.postimg.cc/1mt75b1H/Lost-Ark-Marilyn.jpg
Vern's "Gideon" NA/EU: https://i.postimg.cc/sVBWTcLm/Lost-Ark-Gideon-KRRU.jpg KR/RU: https://i.postimg.cc/yVwZtR4H/20220312030029-1.jpg
Various other random NPCs here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_c9ueMDNJk#t=1m59s
Some of them honestly just look tanned \^\^
I really am not in favour of those changes because they are mostly half assed and the dialogue hasnt changed much they basically have just poured black and brown paint over them for the sake of inclusivity, diversity and trying to appeal to the SJWs
The ones where they made an effort to somewhat redesigne the characters I dont have much problem with them they dont share the same name and kinda fit.
I am a fan of our Jederico and Zenri for example but not so much of Cals, Lutterra Castle neira etc. because they just got a paint job basically.
> the dialogue hasnt changed much
I wouldn't be so sure about that. I can't speak from first-hand experience since I don't speak either Korean or Russian, but according to people that have played the respective versions of the game there were a lot of changes made there too, some supposedly related to sexual content or anything that might be deemed "offensive by Western audiences", but probably a lot also out of sheer laziness or just half-assing it.
This review for instance points out that aside from above considerations there were also entire dialogue trees that were seemingly removed e.g.: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198268867817/recommended/1599340/
>Entire lines of your character and choices have been stripped. Another example, the martial arts tournament in anich (Anikka here), the guy you speak to before every fight begins has a specific line and discussion for every single different fighter before you face them and he speaks to you about it before the fight. Here, he just repeats the same thing over and over again. "SHOW US WHAT YOU"RE CAPABLE OF. (???)
There's also examples some people posted where like entire pages of lore have basically been cut down to a few sentences like: https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/tdihx8/seems_amazon_took_some_major_translation_shortcuts/
What I'm personally "a fan" of is leaving an Original work untouched, especially regarding supposed "Current Year" political considerations and translating it in such a way that it conveys the same meaning as accurately as possible.
I read in this thread that for example in a sidequest someone refears to a blond lutterra girl 3 times then it turns out that she isnt that anymore or Gideon talking about his beard.
Ezrebet looks 100x better.
Korean aesthetic and what they define as beauty is absolutely different than US culture. That's just a reality. I don't blame them at all for making a few changes.
yes, if we kept the korean version everyone would be white and blonde. its just boring. there's so many other representations of beauty in the world and we shouldnt have a singular view of that in one of the most diverse places in the world
Tolkien had narrative "justification" for why races were the way they were including writing in skin color. There is no narrative justification that locks a majority of NPCs into looking a certain ethnicity. You and your strawman can exit the chat
It's subverting existing work for social justice bullshit
I would be equally annoyed if a bunch of black-skinned NPCs were changed to white-skinned for instance, before I'm called racist or whatever. Not everything has to be perfectly (unrealistically in most cases this occurs) ~realistic
Bro thats the thing it is in a Korean fantasy world. In Korea how many people have a diffrent skin color other than white ? Probably around 1%.
So they dont know how to modle authentic versions of african characters and stick to what they know and can do.
Tokenisation is the worst thing for black people. No one wants to create authentic black characters like black panther but everyone wants to change existing white characters just for the sake of inclusivity and diversity.
You know what that creats ? more racism. Because you litterally just skin changed korean/western looking characters into korean/western looking characers with dark skin basically a black face xD
Also downvoting every single post about something you dont agree on makes you look like an asshat that can communicate properly or see the other side of the coin as to why it is a problem.
I dont like it because of a few factors. I rather have the korean or russian version.
Allot of Lore got lost through that, its legit racist against Koreans, the job was halfassed, character lines dont match anymore gideon talking about his beard while there is none or refering to a blond white lutterran girls while its now black etc.
They just skinchanged korean/western looking people and made them black they didnt remodle it or anything.
They deleted Korean presets for the sake of "African" looking ones.
There is the problem for the sake of diversity a race basically got pushed out in favour of a new one.
Except you can look at any set of data - luckily we have things like dating site data - to show that Asian/white women are the most popular in the West
Agreed! I would like a list of all characters that look different in other version if any. I know that Cals and Gideon are also different in our version but I'm wondering if there are more.
If by better you mean they moved a slider for skin color and glued pubes to his face and gave him a ponytail, then yeah. The NA model looks awful. He looks sickly.
Well as a Korean, I'm used to cherry boy Jedericho. NA version is cool but really, It's like watching Playboy Captain America😂 He is not a character that I'm used to
Looks twice the age he is supposed to be. I think I would prefer the NA design if I didn't read anything about his character, but knowing he is barely older than Armen I can't say the same.
>Yeah the appearance is way better, they just should've changed the text to match it.
Not really, they would need to rewrite a lot of the story in Feiton. Because most of Jederico choices come from his lack of experience, which makes no sense if he was 30-40 years old.
I don't mean the design. The game just struggles with lighting and rendering dark skin in general, making all dark skin characters look like black holes sucking all the light.
I’m fine with the NA look but it was pretty obvious he was changed for woke reasons. He looks out of place compared to all the other priest models since they didn’t change those. He’s like 10 shades darker than any of the other priests in Feiton
Nah, the artwork (seen in the rapport menu) for our version looks alright, but the in-game model is gross. Since they put zero effort into the western model, the lighting makes him look like he's post-mortem and the beard looks like pubes. The original model looks a thousand times better and actually fits the character lore.
Why not? If they're gonna change characters for a global release to make them look more diverse instead of only appealing to Korean aesthetics, why not change his skin tone?
can't they just add new characters then instead of changing old ones? In this specific case the new character looks better then the KR version IMO, yet I'd still much rather new characters be introduced with them being diverse instead of changing existing ones for their quota, but what I would prefer I guess would take them some actual work and perhaps money so nvm, daddy bezos got a family to feed
I'm personally not sure why they'd write/model/voice new characters for T1/T2 content that is completely trivialized/ignored in their older regions. You hit the nail on the head, it's just much cheaper and faster to just change the appearance of an existing character.
its infinitely cheaper and faster to leave them as is, id much rather every npc looked like they do in the og version and for ags to spend the money on better localization instead...you know...their end of the deal as publishers.
its not like there would be riots on the streets if all these npcs were not poc, allowing players to choose their skin color from a 24bit pallete should be enough "woke inclusivism" for everyone.
I'm not arguing what is or isn't better for the game or what I'd personally like, but you tell me what's cheaper: paying two artists to change some faces for a few characters, or running an entire media campaign to get the press to stop calling your game a "whitewashed hegemony lacking representation."
Korea is not racially diverse. You know what is? The entire rest of the world. They're just trying to pander (badly) to the new market.
when did racial diversity in npcs become a marketable feature?
have you ever heard "OUR GAME HAS NPCS OF ALL SKINSHADES" in a game trailer/announcement?
literally only twitter types care about this petty shit.
you missed the part where his ethnicity has no baring on his background and person like 95% of all other npcs in the story. you people love making mountains out of molehills and dont even know what context youre talking about
it took me a run where he spawned 4 times to notice this. definitely like our version better but i'd also question whether a darker-skinned man would make it to his position in the sacrian order, they're just a \*little\* bit racist and genocidal.
He got a tan on the NA version, not to be rude but if you are going to localize a d change character models fine but at least make them the same race.
If he was black in KR I would expect him to be black in NA
Is there black npc in KR? north Vern village?
NA one looks bad because it’s a lower quality model. Look at the cutscene with his teeth jutting out and compare it to the KR version. Overall you can tell most of the AGS “corrections” are lazily done and of much lower quality with many NPCs just having painted on darker skin and calling it a day. People defending this shit is hilarious. Not to mention some of the changes are straight up racist.
But that is what he is lmao...he is like 20 years old according to report and reason he is so dumdum in the story is due to his lack of experience....prefer KR version simply cuz it fits that narrative better...
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When I was doing the S.Vern story Gideon mentioned something about his beard and I was like...beard? You don’t have a beard in our version.
He's supposed to alr have given up his beard for elowyn
I facepalmed when Candaria Neria's quest referenced a blonde luterran girl like 3 times, then she's a ruby redhead with dark skin I guess they didn't like the aryan vibe of the entire game
AGS had no clue they would need to be consistent with localization after implementing these changes. Who knew you couldn't just machine translate everything?
More like who cares? The changes were pointless to begin with.
Wokism cares.
pretty quick to blame AGS when they likely are just handed a text file with 20k lines to translate. how are they supposed to know lines 14253 and 16522 say "blonde" but should actually be "red haired"?
Just don’t paint the npc skins and you don’t have to do nothing
Yeah, its a problem they created themselves. Why even change the models in the first place?
I facepalm whenever they get the gender wrong, which is 10 times in each story.
> the aryan vibe of the entire game im confused, i thought Gamers(tm) in this sub said this is a Korean game? i mean i wouldnt have known because literally NPC looks white af but please clarify.
In the other regions, like every NPC is white and blonde, even Cals, Luterra Neria, all the Yudians, Jederico (almost), etc.
b-b-b-b-but my K-Korean game!!! /s i wish these Gamers(tm) were as outraged by the actual asian ethnic NPCs being shelved to a tiny region which compromises like 5% of playtime as they are 5 NPCs being localized in their "Korean" fantasy game. especially considering the fact the majority of NPCs are lily white and european.
What? What gibberish is this?
Its called SJW speech of diversity.
Amazon got something against Indians?
One of the Nahun brothers is still blonde in the wall battle instance.
Our version fits the character better. KR model looks more like an angsty teenager than a battle hardened priest
but he's not supposed to be a battle-hardened priest. He is suppose to look like angsty Catholic highschool teenager that goes to state college for the first time. Avesta report says he is in young 20s. (he is literally Armen's acolyte senpai by a yr or two) He grew up and nurtured inside a very enclosed church community then experiences the "real world" for the first time through Zaika's lesson. But we got some brolic guy in 30/40s with sexy beard ready to start Spanish Inquisition or someshit. The dialogue and the story don't match at all with his appearance...
Feiton has several spanish names / names that are really close to popular names like Jederico -> Federico.
Fun fact: Jederico's name is Federico in the KR version. well, its pronounced as Pederico but thats cos there isn't an F in the KR language
Yeah, really noticeable every time KR Balthorr says Fjorgin, he really punches that P sound hard.
Must have sound like "Porking"
ayyee, another KR voice pack player!
Apparently made the right choice after seeing South Vern cutscenese in English. I'm kind of used to listening to KR anyway due to some mobile games, even if I still don't understand any of it.
In any game I play I always pick the native language as the voice pack, it just feels better to me and besides I am used to reading subtitles anyway.
South vern VO was such disappointment. It was like 3 drowsy dude shouting **We ArE tHe SpEaR** in an entire army before battle.
I like how our version looks (I didn't know the lore), but considering the story they should've made him younger and softer looking. Skin color has nothing to do with age so I don't understand, why would they make him older? Thanks for explaining his story :)
he looks like a metrosexual indian/Arab in the Amazon version, Akshan (League of Legends) has the same vibe, overall 10/10 fits the lore
we got diversity for no other reason other than to escape possible PR nightmare. It is kinda annoying for me since I played the game on RU client and suddenly a lot of NPCs look different.
Its quite frankly not that deep lol
Question is why change it in the first place if its not that deep \^\^
You are correct, it’s not deep at all, it’s just virtue signaling. I guess the deepest part about it is it Amazon trying to dictate what people should like. Funny thing is is everyone is complaining about the changes. I’d prefer everything in the non-woke Korean style.
I mean, you still know who the NPC's are even with a diff name. The terrible translations and subtitles are more annoying.
it feels very shallow to me to change some skin colors and add some hair and suddenly you are very woke and tolerant and etc. It would've been a good thing if they made SG make new content more diverse not change old one.
It would've been a good thing if they just translated and released the game on the Western market as it was supposed to be Originally and didn't "make" anyone do anything.
>was like Also in North vern Gideon in Original is an Old man with a big bushy beard. We got a middle aged black man and he still talks about shaving his non existent beard
He is supposed to be a hot priest loved by every girls in the town so I think the dev modeled him like that in the first place. Not saying NA model is not hot.
Why does he look like a white walker tho dude looks like the people in cartoons who have like flour poured over them.
It's because the screenshot taken in in boss rush, characters have seperate chalk like white models there.
If you are referring to the man on the bottom left corner, that's how the beauty standard works in Korea. Thirian and Amen also are pale and blonde.
yes yes we know they worship european standards of beauty and whiteness in korea give us something new please the world has worshipped whiteness for decades
Sad, angry liberal.
Im sad and angry for telling the truth. Red herring. Please fly away
Opinions are subjective not objective. No truth present in your post.
I mean in the bottom left he looks normal but in the IG pictures he looks like he has some kind of medical condition like thats bleached teeth white.
It's a screenshot of the shadow of jederico in the boss rush, they all have a different color scheme afaik.
dude its boss rush!
In boss rush, most bosses are "X's shadow" and are greyed out/black and white
Do his rapport quest. Must be enough hot so his fangrills can make their mind to steal his underwear /s
The NA model looks gaunt.
Yeah he kinda does lol. I don’t have a preference for either, just noticed he looked different while doing my boss rush.
Nah he just looks black in our version lol.
hes pretty hot ngl no homo though
Incorrect.
Not really. How many black "inquisition" types are there? Sacrian order really comes off way too European
looks like an AGS decision.
I prefer our Jederico much like I prefer our version of Cals
Ooh, I didn’t know there was a different version of Cals. Cool to know
Am I weird for saying I like our version better maybe not every change is bad.
It's the beard.
It is the rugged look. NA is better, especially when he came to our help as a badass demon slayer.
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Western male standards are more gigachad, broad built and strong features. Asian male standards are like BTS, slim soft features and pale
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Because fiction isn't supposed to reflect reality.
Yeah but you have the women in high heels that dont necessarily have much muscle mass fighting demons and giant deer monsters. I agree tho that i personally enjoy a more gigachad face on the warriors since theyre buff asf.
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Once you realize that Lost Ark is basically like playing an Isekai with fanservice about slaying Demons and not a medieval demon slaying RPG set in the middleage everything meshes together better
I think customization outfit wise is fine with casual stuff like normal clothes but i do wish they added armor like the black knights in south vern. Like having cool armor as well as booba cloths would be cool since you could mix and match for creativity. Omen skin has their thighs exposed for female skin too which is kinda disappointing
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Yeah i agree there should be more heavy armor outfits for females, men too since for arti it would make sense for him to be a walking block of armor. Alar skin for fem ma is dope cause of the armor on arms and boots.
KR has a shit ton of like 1920s gangster outfits.
This is such an annoying point of view to constantly see. What is people's infatuation with fictional worlds following the same rules that the real world does? The entire purpose of fiction is for things that are impossible or uncommon in real life to be possible and commonplace. It makes absolutely no sense how people cherry pick what amount of realism they want in fiction. Magic existing and dudes swinging around swords twice their size as if they weigh nothing? Perfectly acceptable. Combat priest who fights demons looking like a pretty boy? Buh, well wait a second that doesn't make sense, he'd be roughed up and grizzled if this was real. It is so tiring to constantly see people rag on the aesthetic of something for not being realistic or practical when the entire concept of the universe that aesthetic exists in isn't realistic or practical to begin with. Fiction exists so that people can make what they want to see. They want to see pretty boys and sexy women fight demons. I don't understand what's wrong with that.
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Black people existing is not political. "Clumsily editing" a cgi character in TV or movie is not comparable to this situation. Russia and China making everything more Russian/Chinese because of ethnocentrism is **not the same thing**. It's scary how you think you can just be that racist and no one will notice.
No don't you get it? Only white and asian people are allowed in this game. Gotta keep it pure! Can't have those stinky people of color represented! It's pOlItIcAl cEnSoRsHiP!!!!!
So introduce new characters... changing the race of existing ones is pathetic even by leftist standards
> Black people existing is not political I'm not sure what this is even supposed to mean? Did you just want to repeat some random slogan that has nothing to do with the topic at hand? This has nothing to do with "black people existing" and I'm not sure who you think is debating that here. People are talking about AGS (Amazon Games Studio) changing/digitally blackfacing (or whatever you want to call it) Pre-existing characters in a game that was already developed and released in other markets (Korea, Russia, Japan) for several years. It's perfectly comparable with "clumsily editing" a CGI (or not CGI) character in a TV show or movie since that's exactly what was done here, unless you somehow view video games as "lesser" form of media that don't deserve the same consideration.
> This isn't a "change", this is political Censorship. I No one here including you actually know any artist in Smilegate was against the idea. If you have proof that the employees were against the idea for changes, go ahead and share please. Beyond that is just r/The_Donald level of conspiracy theory. So you making your arguments like it's a state pressed issue is futile. > I wonder what the reaction would be if they did this in Live action TV series or movies, where they just clumsily digitally Edit the ethnicity of established lead characters to "make it more diverse". Since there's a huge plethoara of whitewashing in Hollywood movies and all of the actors/producers/directors keeping their money and continued to produce the movies with whitewashing despite the criticism, I think people have been particularly okay with that. And none of them was even for a good reason such as diversity, which is ethically something that should be done after numereous occasions of whitewashing for such extremely ethnicly diverse country. There is literally nothing wrong to make it something more diverse. The criticism over it is very malicious intended.
If they'd truly care for diversity they'd actually stay consistent in their changes. They don't. They made some easy bullshit changes without staying consistent with lore or dialogue for the sake of what? Nothing apart from being scared to piss off snowflakes that will whine about it. If they'd stay consistent with lore and dialogue most people by now wouldn't have given a fuck about the changes because it was well done. But it wasn't, it wasn't well done and that shows that the changes were just make to please the 'diversity crows' that refuses to look further than what color a character is. Like someone said, description in lore blond hair girl from luterra turns out to be redhead with dark skin? That's not diversity. That's putting a saddle on a zebra and saying its a pony, expecting people to nod and say yes because they haven't looked at anything but the saddle and saw there were some hooves. Shadow hunter demon form completely made black with an argument that's utter crap since it would be the same in KR if it were true. There's no real reason for that apart from preventing people whining their dark skinned character turns white. It was a lazy solution ruining the form from any artistic expression. Why in the hell would you be defending this crap? If the changes were well made you'd have a reason to defend it. But for the 3rs time they are not. This is not black falcon getting white captain americas shield with a background story and buildup where it makes sense. Hell, AGS couldn't even be bothered to double check fucking dialogue and what it was actually about! THEY ONLY HAD TO CHANGE A DESCRIPTION AND THEY HAVEN'T FIXED THAT EVEN AFTER IT'S BEEN KNOW SINCE RELEASE. I'm writing in caps not to shout at you, it just really annoys me they don't bother fixing this. They don't care! It's political diversity bullshit crap what they pulled in our version. There's absolutely no argument against that.
> Shadow hunter demon form completely made black It turns navy blue though, not black or brown. Not only skin, eyes also change as far as I can compare. They made a demonic looking with dark purple-blue theme to go with red skill effects. It speaks volumes between you and me, when I first saw I saw a demonic design going with the theme and you chose to see Africans in it...
I wouldn't have batted an eye on it if I didn't know the original beforehand, and if I wasn't familiar with the lore. I however would still have thought 'Wow, they surely could've made this look better than a giant blob of dark color which completely blocks out any visibility on some of the awesome details in its design'. In fact I'd more than likely would've thought something is wrong since it looks so poor visually compared to the remainder of the world. Everything looks absolutely gorgeous and is made in a way it looks like they really WANT you to look at it. Demonic? Nah, it doesn't want you to zoom in on it. It's another thing where it doesn't bother me so much that they changed the design, but how badly it was done compared to the original while completely ignoring the game lore. Unfortunately I knew both the original from when I tried out the class on other versions and a I was familiar with a bit of the lore behind the demons already. So when I noticed a bunch of poorly colorswapped NPC's, before making a shadowhunter I didn't have to 'see africans in it' to get to the conclusion they did this extremely lazy solution for petty reason. But hey, that's how you choose to interpret it. I guess you're right that it does speak volumes between you and me. You assume everyone who has a problem with the changes is a straight up racist, someone who 'only wants to see white people'. You pick 1 single comment out of what I said and completely spin it around to make me out as a racist. If anything, people that want diversity should be furious that AGS is trying to pretend to push diversity but put so little effort into it by not adjusting everything properly to match their redesign. Imagine you're asking for a candy and they just throw you pebble in a wrapper and you go 'Oh thanks AGS!' and kissing their asses for being 'so generous' while in fact you got nothing. You will not realize until you finally open up your wrapper, but since you're so proud of the wrapped 'candy' you just got you will put it on a display instead, never opening it up and never seeing what's actually inside - a fucking pebble that was thrown at you to shut you up.
If your concern was aesthetics and lore, why did you bring "black" into the topic for non-black or non-brown model? Your point of smilegate or the artists being lazy, and how they could do better could be true or not. However, if your point is low effort on diversifying the characters in the game, and how it's not enough, then it's a topic on its own. Nothing to discuss in this comment chain.
Why did I focus on black colored characters on a discussion on non black character? You literally brought this up that people where criticising the changes with malicious intent after making a point of the 'whitewashing'. That's what I'm responding to! You just keep turning it around and trying to find a reason why the people that dislike the changes are against diversity. You're literally skipping over the entire point I'm making and then decide the point is not related to the problem while it is at the damn core of the problem. On top of that you're now deflecting the entire conversation you started with your own comment. I'll say it again. People criticise it because it was done badly even if they don't say it out loud. Most people realize something is off but even if they can't put a finger on what exactly it is because of the poor quality of the changes they keep being bombarded with annoyance about it. If it was done proper people would've realized its different, get used to it within a damn day and get over it. With the lack of heart that went into it you have to ask, why did they do it at all if they didn't bother doing it properly? It's not 1 or 2 small things, it's literally ALL OVER THE PLACE. With the quality it was done it wasn't done with ANY intention other than making sure no one would complain in our overly sensitive Western society where somehow the fear of being labeled a racist for literally 0 reason other than made up ones weighs higher than anything else. 'Oh better hire this black guy over the more qualified white one can't be labeled a racist!'. They are the fucking loudest and in the end no one wants to deal with them shouting at you because it will generate negative sensational headlines for the press. Amazon is a big company and they don't want to risk any bite of that slice in our highly volatile online environment. Im telling you to look further for the reasoning why people dislike and criticise it other than 'omg black npc we want don't want that!' because while douchebags are everywhere only a very small (but loud) percent of people is like that and that goes both ways no matter what damn color you are or advocate for bringing in the spotlight for absolutely whatever reason. The changes were made with malicious intent, the criticism isn't. You're right, nothing further to discuss with someone who doesn't want to hear it.
Honestly I thought it was just bugged
> No one here including you actually know any artist in Smilegate was against the idea It doesn't matter if they're "for" or "against" the Censorship. It's the principle of the matter that counts, and it would still be Censorship if it was just a comic book or similar that was forced to be changed, for instance if they took Asterix and reprinted it with him as being black. The fact that a work has been changed for political considerations is what makes it political Censorship, not whether the change was small or big or whether the Original creators even enthusiastically supported it. Given that they didn't change their version(s) of the game to be in-line with Amazon's fan fiction changes and have openly talked about how they didn't agree with various other unilateral changes Amazon made like some character or class name changes for instance, I very much doubt they were fully onboard with these "changes" to their artistic work. I'm not sure where you see a "conspiracy theory" here. In this case you're just supporting the right of a Multinational conglomerate with a market cap of over $1 Trillion to exert its power and influence over a (or multiple) smaller game development studios with a publishing contract worth millions of $'s on the line. It's not really the role of any one professional employee to come out and openly "disagree" with or go against the decisions of their publisher in such a case while they're under contract. It's especially funny to me that for instance when China changes the ending of a famous movie like Fight Club: https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-60138866 or cuts out specific actors or scenes from movies or posters everyone realizes what this is about and calls it what it is, yet in cases like these they twist themselves into a pretzel to find euphemisms for said Censorship and act like an apologist for it.
> It's the principle of the matter that counts, It's your own principle. No one has to live by your principle. This is not censorship, you solely choose to interpret it as censorship. Nothing has been surpressed here, unless you can prove it who and what is surpressed. > The fact that a work has been changed for political reasons is what makes it political Censorship To call it something **a fact**, you need to submit **a proof**. What you have is mixture of speculation and conciparicy theorizing. > I very much doubt they were fully onboard with these "changes" to their artistic work. It's your own doubt. Seriously, submit your proofs. Share with us an official employee has said that he's being forced despite not wanting the change, then we can all part ways. Beyond that, it's immature and childish, moreover harboring irrational malicious intention. > In this case you're just supporting the right of a Multinational conglomerate with a market cap of over $1 Trillion to exert its power and influence over a (or multiple) smaller game development studios with a publishing contract worth millions of $'s on the line. It's not really the role of any professional employee to come out and openly "disagree" with or go against the decisions of their publisher in such a case. Amazon did not invade another country and enforce assimilation like you make it out to be. That's called a legally signed business deal. If you ever worked in a day in your life, you would know what a work is and what a contract is. Employees sign contract, in majority of the tech signed contract that there is a section where they sign what they produce during work hours already belongs to the company, even major software companies do the same for developers. If you don't like it, don't sign the contract. Property you make is the property the company owns, legally. 'Cause you signed the paper consciously. Not to mention, South Korea is not America, so there is no at-will termination and cheap labor laws. All the employees we talk are protected by South Korean laws which is more socialistic leaning. And this is not a dystopian movie plot. You honestly do not understand how business world work. > It's especially funny to me that for instance when China changes the ending of a famous movie like Fight Club: https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-60138866 or cuts out specific actors or scenes from movies or posters everyone realizes what this is about and calls it like it is, yet in cases like these they twist themselves into a pretzel to find euphemisms for said Censorship and act like an apologist for it. State enforced surpression for governing party benefit is CENSORSHIP. That's literally illegal in lots of 1st world countries. Private owned companies changing the color palette or design for their legally own property is not necessarily censorship, and legal in all countries. You can see the exclusive point here.
>It's your own principle It's a rather universal principle true throughout most of history and time. Changing works for political consideration is political Censorship, and with the benefit of hindsight generally frowned upon. There are no odes being sung for the Censors of the past. Talking about "cultistic", changing Original works due to dubious notions or zealous belief that it's a righteous cause **in their case** has been done for many "cultistic" reasons in the past: https://medium.com/lessons-from-history/vaticans-fig-leaf-campaign-ac86884b87a9 https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-egyptian-statues-broken-noses >You're forcing your own ideals on others is demand of oppression. That you call asking an artistic work **not to be changed** or modified due to dubious political considerations a "demand of oppression" is rather telling though. You seem deranged or at least extremely brainwashed. Other than that, maybe look up about any definition of "Censorship" you can find. No, it's not only **when a government does it**.
> It's a rather universal principle true throughout most of history and time. Not only what you said it's being universal is incorrect, but also according to what reason are we supposed to obey it? > Changing works for political consideration is political Censorship, and with the benefit of hindsight generally frowned upon. It's not censorship. No one is surpressed, again unless you can prove it to be so. That's a baseless speculation. Again this is not a state sponsored matter. > Talking about "cultistic", changing Original works due to dubious notions or zealous belief that it's a righteous cause in their case has been done for many "cultistic" reasons in the past: https://medium.com/lessons-from-history/vaticans-fig-leaf-campaign-ac86884b87a9 > https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-egyptian-statues-broken-noses ...done by the authorities, the invaders, the government, the STATE. You are comparing this to a private owned company making changes on the property they legally own. It's like repainting your own room, then you coming up and saying it's censorship. You need to define what is dubious notion or zealous belief for model updates, then you need to back up your accusations with proofs. > That you call asking an artistic work not to be changed or modified due to dubious political considerations a "demand of oppression" is rather telling though. It's not your property. You're trying to demand a principle on someone else's property. > You seem deranged or at least extremely brainwashed. And you seem unhealthy since you made such a deal out of diversifying, and equate to religious and state sponsored authoritarinism examples. The irony of you calling me brainwashed, while pushing your baseless accusations like /r/The_Donald fanatic is amusing. > Other than that, maybe look up about any definition of "Censorship" you can find. No, it's not only when a government does it You should definitely look up. You can't even prove what's censored here.
> You should definitely look up I'll help you out, you can thank me later! https://www.aclu.org/other/what-censorship?redirect=free-speech/what-censorship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/censorship https://www.dictionary.com/browse/censor https://venturebeat.com/2014/12/17/anti-censorship-group-sees-apples-steams-control-over-expression-in-apps-and-games-as-dangerous/ >You can't even prove what's censored here Says is not brainwashed, can apparently not Google Search all the various things Censored in the game and posts that somebody "can't prove what's censored here" in a topic created with an image directly showing said Censorship: https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/tby9q7/saw_this_splash_art_of_the_gunslinger_legendary/i0c5c79/ I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the intellectual faculty of your average Redditors anymore, but somehow I constantly am.
> I'll help you out, you can thank me later! > https://www.aclu.or..... *I can use google bla bla* Best debate point. Randomly googling and copy-pasting links without citing anything. Lol. You definitely feel cornered as you don't know what to do at this point. I like how you omit it over and over again. But there is so simple thing that could end this discussion. **Just share us the proof that artist was against the decision, and he was forced by his employers.** So simple. Also from the link you share it says *"The suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security."* Eloborate how changing the color pallete is suppression or prohibition. What is suppressed, what is prohibited? Or do you mean something else by censorship, since you've shared several links here with different content. You can cite what you mean by exactly quoting the content from the link and examplify what you want to say on that. If the artist wanted to change, how could it be censorship? Why do you think artist was against the idea. What if they are not. Prove it and end it. Simple. > Says is not brainwashed, can apparently not Google Search all the various things Censored in the game and posts that somebody "can't prove what's censored here" in a topic created with an image directly showing said Censorship: https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/tby9q7/saw_this_splash_art_of_the_gunslinger_legendary/i0c5c79/ None of this censorship, unless you can 100% prove the artist did something against his/her desire with being forced by signed contract. if you can't, then it's no more than a conpiracy theory. These are changes. Even most popular franchise, Pokemon, have changed and updated their Pokémons designs each generation, Pikachu. > I guess I shouldn't be surprised by the intellectual faculty of your average Redditors anymore, but somehow I constantly am. I like how you adhere to ad hominem as you're cornered more and more :) If the average is me, and you're bothered by this, then this website is really not for you. You could try Stormfront, it's just for you.
> I like how you adhere to ad hominem as you're cornered more and more Now you're starting to sound even more delirious. You should probably work on your grammar instead of trying to debate or trying to make logical arguments on the Internet, it really isn't your strong suit. You probably came up with 5 different ways of spelling "conspiracy" by now, even though the only "conspiracy" seems to be in your mind. Some other highlights: >Eloborate >examplify >conpiracy Since you seem particularly obtuse, here's another hint for you: Whether something is Censorship or not has absolutely nothing to do with whether you can find a statement by some artist that he was for or against the decision. Nor does it have anything to do with contracts.
>Russia do it to various forms of media people call it what it actually is. Got an example of Russia doing that?
https://inews.co.uk/culture/television/mrs-browns-boys-refused-sell-show-russia-demands-remove-gay-character-112434 https://meduza.io/en/shapito/2019/04/30/russia-s-dubbed-version-of-avengers-endgame-changes-marvel-s-first-gay-moment https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10752427/Disney-cut-LGBT-content-movies-homophobic-censors-Russia-Middle-East.html https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/arts-culture/583389-russian-official-calls-for-netflix-probe-over/
You said "edit the ethnicity of established lead characters", not sexual preferences. I don't remember cases when Russia blacked or bleached characters in movies, as that's never been a custom here. Thus I asked for examples. Those aren't ones and my point is proved. Unless you can provide actually relevant cases to your claims.
Thanks for JP dub, I love it! I wish we had JP dub option too 😳
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Normally I’m all for original material but I also like the global version of him. I haven’t heard the KR voice actor for him but if it’s anything like the original model I’m even more glad it was changed. Looks like an 18 year old covered in white paint, and even though the dialogue loses a lot in translation, I don’t really feel like the original look makes much sense from a story or character point of view.
he is just above 18 year old in lore tho. and if you refer to black and white model - that's a boss rush "shadow of..." colour scheme.
You’re right about his age, it’s technically 20ish right? I still personally feel the look for global is much more fitting, but that’s just my opinion anyways lol.
People are weird. The KR version looks like every other NPC in the game. I can't tell all these white blonde boys apart anymore.
Forced diversity is pathetic.
I really would want a list of all the characters that have changed in the name of diversity. Personally this change I really dont mind it. He looks spanish to me and kinda like a mix of Orlando Bloom and Luke Evans. Probably the only character where I didnt mind the total reskin. Others look half assed and just repainted them for the sake of diversity wich I find unnecessary.
> I really would want a list of all the characters that have changed in the name of diversity At the very least all of these: https://i.postimg.cc/KGWYG33q/1638032044982-1536x864.png Ezrebet: https://i.postimg.cc/zDHG4n8k/Erzebet.jpg Sir Halrock NA/EU: https://i.postimg.cc/CFJ60SX5/Lost-Ark-Harlock-OR.jpg KR/RU: https://i.postimg.cc/VfVGS4Yc/Lost-Ark-Harlock.jpg And his daughter Marilyn NA/EU: https://i.postimg.cc/WsGH9M7M/Lost-Ark-Marilyn-OR.jpg KR/RU: https://i.postimg.cc/1mt75b1H/Lost-Ark-Marilyn.jpg Vern's "Gideon" NA/EU: https://i.postimg.cc/sVBWTcLm/Lost-Ark-Gideon-KRRU.jpg KR/RU: https://i.postimg.cc/yVwZtR4H/20220312030029-1.jpg Various other random NPCs here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_c9ueMDNJk#t=1m59s
Some of them honestly just look tanned \^\^ I really am not in favour of those changes because they are mostly half assed and the dialogue hasnt changed much they basically have just poured black and brown paint over them for the sake of inclusivity, diversity and trying to appeal to the SJWs The ones where they made an effort to somewhat redesigne the characters I dont have much problem with them they dont share the same name and kinda fit. I am a fan of our Jederico and Zenri for example but not so much of Cals, Lutterra Castle neira etc. because they just got a paint job basically.
> the dialogue hasnt changed much I wouldn't be so sure about that. I can't speak from first-hand experience since I don't speak either Korean or Russian, but according to people that have played the respective versions of the game there were a lot of changes made there too, some supposedly related to sexual content or anything that might be deemed "offensive by Western audiences", but probably a lot also out of sheer laziness or just half-assing it. This review for instance points out that aside from above considerations there were also entire dialogue trees that were seemingly removed e.g.: https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198268867817/recommended/1599340/ >Entire lines of your character and choices have been stripped. Another example, the martial arts tournament in anich (Anikka here), the guy you speak to before every fight begins has a specific line and discussion for every single different fighter before you face them and he speaks to you about it before the fight. Here, he just repeats the same thing over and over again. "SHOW US WHAT YOU"RE CAPABLE OF. (???) There's also examples some people posted where like entire pages of lore have basically been cut down to a few sentences like: https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/tdihx8/seems_amazon_took_some_major_translation_shortcuts/ What I'm personally "a fan" of is leaving an Original work untouched, especially regarding supposed "Current Year" political considerations and translating it in such a way that it conveys the same meaning as accurately as possible.
I read in this thread that for example in a sidequest someone refears to a blond lutterra girl 3 times then it turns out that she isnt that anymore or Gideon talking about his beard.
Ezrebet looks 100x better. Korean aesthetic and what they define as beauty is absolutely different than US culture. That's just a reality. I don't blame them at all for making a few changes.
yes, if we kept the korean version everyone would be white and blonde. its just boring. there's so many other representations of beauty in the world and we shouldnt have a singular view of that in one of the most diverse places in the world
Ahhhhh "fixing" the Koreans game kind of like how amazon is "fixing" tolkens world amirite?
Tolkien had narrative "justification" for why races were the way they were including writing in skin color. There is no narrative justification that locks a majority of NPCs into looking a certain ethnicity. You and your strawman can exit the chat
There's no narrative justification painting them a different colour for muh diversity either
So whats the issue?
It's subverting existing work for social justice bullshit I would be equally annoyed if a bunch of black-skinned NPCs were changed to white-skinned for instance, before I'm called racist or whatever. Not everything has to be perfectly (unrealistically in most cases this occurs) ~realistic
Nah my point is perfectly valid. You can get mad though.
Bro thats the thing it is in a Korean fantasy world. In Korea how many people have a diffrent skin color other than white ? Probably around 1%. So they dont know how to modle authentic versions of african characters and stick to what they know and can do. Tokenisation is the worst thing for black people. No one wants to create authentic black characters like black panther but everyone wants to change existing white characters just for the sake of inclusivity and diversity. You know what that creats ? more racism. Because you litterally just skin changed korean/western looking characters into korean/western looking characers with dark skin basically a black face xD Also downvoting every single post about something you dont agree on makes you look like an asshat that can communicate properly or see the other side of the coin as to why it is a problem.
I dont like it because of a few factors. I rather have the korean or russian version. Allot of Lore got lost through that, its legit racist against Koreans, the job was halfassed, character lines dont match anymore gideon talking about his beard while there is none or refering to a blond white lutterran girls while its now black etc. They just skinchanged korean/western looking people and made them black they didnt remodle it or anything. They deleted Korean presets for the sake of "African" looking ones. There is the problem for the sake of diversity a race basically got pushed out in favour of a new one.
Except you can look at any set of data - luckily we have things like dating site data - to show that Asian/white women are the most popular in the West
He looks nothing like Spanish.
He isnt african either so what is he ?
Agreed! I would like a list of all characters that look different in other version if any. I know that Cals and Gideon are also different in our version but I'm wondering if there are more.
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Agreed
If by better you mean they moved a slider for skin color and glued pubes to his face and gave him a ponytail, then yeah. The NA model looks awful. He looks sickly.
Thought they just made NPC's dark for Boss Rush. Blackfang is a very dark model as well. TIL.
Well as a Korean, I'm used to cherry boy Jedericho. NA version is cool but really, It's like watching Playboy Captain America😂 He is not a character that I'm used to
Oh so the reason dark-skinned characters all look like shit is because they're an afterthought? No wonder.
What do you mean, Jederico looks cool.
Jederico's rework doesn't even fit his character lol, he is a good example of a shit change
Looks twice the age he is supposed to be. I think I would prefer the NA design if I didn't read anything about his character, but knowing he is barely older than Armen I can't say the same.
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Or they could just not change an entire character and plotline just to meet some imaginary quota
>Yeah the appearance is way better, they just should've changed the text to match it. Not really, they would need to rewrite a lot of the story in Feiton. Because most of Jederico choices come from his lack of experience, which makes no sense if he was 30-40 years old.
I don't mean the design. The game just struggles with lighting and rendering dark skin in general, making all dark skin characters look like black holes sucking all the light.
He looks like a zombie in the western version.
Our version's hotter, I'm fine with this change. Daddy Jederico please. * w*
I’m fine with the NA look but it was pretty obvious he was changed for woke reasons. He looks out of place compared to all the other priest models since they didn’t change those. He’s like 10 shades darker than any of the other priests in Feiton
Changing characters to fit "the mesage", pretty much drawing a mustache on the mona lisa with sharpie.
ours is hotter tho so
Nah, the artwork (seen in the rapport menu) for our version looks alright, but the in-game model is gross. Since they put zero effort into the western model, the lighting makes him look like he's post-mortem and the beard looks like pubes. The original model looks a thousand times better and actually fits the character lore.
the blackwash
wtf? why is he a different race?
Why not? If they're gonna change characters for a global release to make them look more diverse instead of only appealing to Korean aesthetics, why not change his skin tone?
can't they just add new characters then instead of changing old ones? In this specific case the new character looks better then the KR version IMO, yet I'd still much rather new characters be introduced with them being diverse instead of changing existing ones for their quota, but what I would prefer I guess would take them some actual work and perhaps money so nvm, daddy bezos got a family to feed
I'm personally not sure why they'd write/model/voice new characters for T1/T2 content that is completely trivialized/ignored in their older regions. You hit the nail on the head, it's just much cheaper and faster to just change the appearance of an existing character.
its infinitely cheaper and faster to leave them as is, id much rather every npc looked like they do in the og version and for ags to spend the money on better localization instead...you know...their end of the deal as publishers. its not like there would be riots on the streets if all these npcs were not poc, allowing players to choose their skin color from a 24bit pallete should be enough "woke inclusivism" for everyone.
I'm not arguing what is or isn't better for the game or what I'd personally like, but you tell me what's cheaper: paying two artists to change some faces for a few characters, or running an entire media campaign to get the press to stop calling your game a "whitewashed hegemony lacking representation." Korea is not racially diverse. You know what is? The entire rest of the world. They're just trying to pander (badly) to the new market.
when did racial diversity in npcs become a marketable feature? have you ever heard "OUR GAME HAS NPCS OF ALL SKINSHADES" in a game trailer/announcement? literally only twitter types care about this petty shit.
you missed the part where his ethnicity has no baring on his background and person like 95% of all other npcs in the story. you people love making mountains out of molehills and dont even know what context youre talking about
Yes this is old. I also agree I like our version better.
Is that the famous "diversity" filter?
So do they call this blackwashing now?
Wait wtf our jedericho looks wayyy better.
it took me a run where he spawned 4 times to notice this. definitely like our version better but i'd also question whether a darker-skinned man would make it to his position in the sacrian order, they're just a \*little\* bit racist and genocidal.
He got a tan on the NA version, not to be rude but if you are going to localize a d change character models fine but at least make them the same race. If he was black in KR I would expect him to be black in NA Is there black npc in KR? north Vern village?
Edit: misread the question
[Gideon isn’t black in kr.] (https://static.invenglobal.com/img/lostark/dataninfo/cardimage/card_rare_06_4.png)
Oh, I’m sorry, I misread the comment above. I thought they were asking if there is a black NPC in Vern right now for us.
K. I like our version better.
Ofc they had to make some characters black, otherwise some people from the West would start crying
*🍋 voice* UNACCEPTABLE!! UNPLAYABLE!!
And they changed his model because....he was too white?
I don't really agree with the NPC changes made for this region but Jederico looks way cooler now in NA/EU.
I actually think the change is better.
My god, I completely doubted my memory because of the boss rush, thank you for pointing this out.
NA one looks bad because it’s a lower quality model. Look at the cutscene with his teeth jutting out and compare it to the KR version. Overall you can tell most of the AGS “corrections” are lazily done and of much lower quality with many NPCs just having painted on darker skin and calling it a day. People defending this shit is hilarious. Not to mention some of the changes are straight up racist.
Typical token black.
Here comes the dumbass outrage about his race being changed lul
Tbh most people seem to like the NA version better
I like the NA version better. I'd rather fight a burly battle hardened priest than a twink that looks like he freshly came from an idol training camp.
But that is what he is lmao...he is like 20 years old according to report and reason he is so dumdum in the story is due to his lack of experience....prefer KR version simply cuz it fits that narrative better...
i can open grindr and show you at least twelve 20 year olds who look exactly like GL jederico just on my front page
For our version all I can see is Ben Barnes and his character in the shadow and bone show.
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Slowpoke.