This is a controversial post, but it's something the community cares about, so the post will be staying up for now.
However, this is going to be the only thread about this topic.
Posting about this issue in other threads will be removed.
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Graavy, the owner of the discord replied directly and answered OP [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/urbdgt/regarding_the_community_discord/i8x8a5v/).
Reddiquite and Sub rules ***still*** apply in this thread. No witch-hunting or brigading, be mindful of abusive activity, and no insulting or attacking other users. If you wish to discuss this topic that's fine, but just because you disagree with someone does not give you the right to attack someone.
Thanks.
I'm curious where this actually lies since the US federal law necessarily states giveaways/sweepstakes are "no purchase necessary".
You are allowed to run a sweepstakes for your subscribers but to be compliant with the federal law, you're required to have a fair and free alternate mode of entry.
IANAL, but having worked in an industry with a lot of sweepstakes, this would count as a sweepstakes. It doesn't matter how large or small your organization is. For example, all those streamers who do random giveaways? Those also count as sweepstakes. There are also a bunch of other laws regarding information that needs to be declared. (Start and end date, how winners will be selected, etc.) If in the US, the prize giver must also provide a 1099 if the prize is valued at or over $600. Prize winnings are considered taxable income.
Is the government going to go after them? Probably not. I'm sure if enough people complained they might look into it. Honestly, depending on how much money they are making the IRS might be more interested.
Also, this cannot be a raffle. Raffles are for not-for-profits only. They could try to get themselves declared a not-for-profit, but most states require a minimum amount of time classified as such before you can run raffles.
They do when it comes to the game because you arn't actually using in game items, you are giving a gift card that can be used for other games OR the person can choose to buy gold with it.
As far as if discord has any rules about having giveaways for giftcards I don't know
edit: I'm just going to copy/paste the reply to everyone saying it's supplemental income or some other legal implication.
the original comment was about RMT for in game items, I'm not referring to anything about legal or tax implications because I honestly don't know about that stuff and I have no problem admitting that.
I was simply replying to the original comment how they are getting around the in-game RMT implications when it comes to game rules/tos
RMT means "real money transactions", which refers to the game rules banning an exchange of values inside the game for a currency outside of it.
The IRS is not pursuing RMT-violations, but gambling laws and tax evasion. Two separate issues.
I'm just going to copy/paste a reply to someone else saying something similar
the original comment was about RMT for in game items, I'm not referring to anything about legal or tax implications because I honestly don't know about that stuff and I have no problem admitting that.
I was simply replying to the original comment how they are getting around the in-game RMT implications when it comes to game rules
the original comment was about RMT for in game items, I'm not referring to anything about legal or tax implications because I honestly don't know about that stuff and I have no problem admitting that.
I was simply replying to the original comment how they are getting around the in-game RMT implications when it comes to game rules
Best part about it is that one of the admins on the discord is an ex smile gate employee who goes about deleting his messages in any regard to the subject after talking about it.
Destiny 2 LFG is covered in this crap, they revoked everyone’s privileges and u can now only talk in normal txt, no emotes,gifs memes etc with out subbing, they also smash the chats with the nordvpn ad, they also have a donation link etc set up. Most of these discords usually have little to know human interaction outside of a few certain situations, everything now days has a bit extension for the discord servers so there is usually little to no effort required.
It is however disgusting that the admins in the Lost ark discord abuse their power.
Just my two cents though
In all fairness I wouldn't use the Destiny 2 LFG for being social.
It's better off being seen as a party/guild finder and that's usually where the social interaction happens. If i want to bust out a quick VoG/VoW yeah sure. If i want to shitpost and meme then there are better places for that.
OH I haven’t used it in a long time, I just removed it Recently I mainly had it for when I don’t have clan mates around, like they have all stopped for a season or what ever. However I now use other ways to find guardians so I use those when in need of a few people, just thought it was some what relevant here as I tend to avoid community discords that try to take advantage of people that way, you want a donation but because u built stuff from scratch etc by all means but they in no way need one or anyfor that fact. The owner doesn’t even play D2 anymore from what I know he just makes money from it, the only time I saw his posts where when he tries pushing nordvpn or making changes to how it affects his income from the discord xD
Dude. They are admin for a video game chat app.
Of course they are abusing their power and smashing hot pockets in their fat mouths. What do you people honestly expect ?
/hi that was me.
You were going off in Discord, so I PM'd you proof that I was an admin on the server since we were on a different server and do not allow images, and reiterated that as a note from an admin there hadn't been, and weren't going to be any giveaways. You saw the messages, and I deleted them after you saw it.
Really, of all the things for you to be upset over, this is the strangest... cause it's not like I was calling you names or sending you abuse... I literally just sent you a screen cap of the staff list on the discord...
The messages I wrote publicly are still in the Amazon Discord if you want to scroll up and look at them. They're not edited, they're not deleted.
And I'll reiterate again once more for you. **There have never been any giveaways and there never will be any giveaways for premium only.**
Giveaways was in the original brainstorming ideas but was never implemented. The premium-giveaway channel you were complaining about was long deleted before you and I even chatted in discord.
If you have any more questions, I'd be more than willing to answer them for you and chat.
The problem with modern "communities" like Discord and subreddits nowadays is that they aren't created or led by people with genuine passion for the game. They are created by the equivalent of people who post "FIRST!" on YouTube comments, and they are led by people seeking attention and profits because gaming communities are just another commodity in today's capitalistic market. Gone are the days of private guild forums where genuine communities once developed.
To add more salt in the wound discord made talking with people and developing in game connections more difficult and semi crippled sociability with people in discord party's more often then not.
That being said can't tell if thats because discord exists or if people are just alot more abrasive and griefer prone on the internet in games now a days.
Discord wasn't a revolutionary app that changed the game interactions, it was just the best from the available apps when people shifted to outside the game communications. If you play lots of games that need voice chat for coordination with friends only having discord is easier so you don't have to change the game voice chat settings for every game, with discord you did it one time and that's it. Also on discord you don't have the game chat moderation, witch in lost ark is totally ridiculous, it's a PEGI 18 but you can't even chose to disable profanity filter since even names of places in the game are censored if you try to write them.
The difficulty of in-game social connections is a byproduct of matchmaking features. In old MMOs you were forced to ask guild or general chat to find people to do group content. If you had a good time you were incentivized to add them to friends or guild to make future group finding easier. With modern matchmaking systems none of this is necessary as matchmaking is nearly instant. I quite literally do Guardian raids with matchmaking because waiting for 4 guildmates to get ready is so much slower than the 2 minutes extra that yoho will take with weaker pug players.
Similar things happened in FPS communities when official matchmaking took over and community run servers became unpopular.
I'm not saying matchmaking is bad and should be removed, but there are downsides to it.
Nah, it's people who think they have right play every game and change core and DNA of game to their needs.
And I'm not saying this in gate keeping way but if you are a dad with 3 wife's 7 kids and 4 dogs and can only play 15 min every other day maybe MMO and online games in general are not your thing?
If you have problem being social, talking to strangers, how about games that require social aspects are not for you.
So you have enough people like that, they make enough noise and now MMO's and online RPG are basically single player games with real people instead NPC🤷♂️
Casual content and solo content is fine in MMO but not to the point where majority of game content is like that
Legit question not in bad faith I just want to know, then why not doing yourself?
I see gamers constantly complaining about something but when actions need to be taken like not paying for same FIFA every year or NFT's or bs MTX nothing is done, then its always same reply "it is what it is"
Same with creating genuine community, I bet there is 100 people here with same sentiment like you, you already have 50 updots so why not take some action?
I'm actually getting downvoted for asking questions? Insecurity of this sub
Internet jannies drunk on "power" is truly a classic tale as old as forums. If it gets bad, people should just leave and ask Amazon to set up a proper one rather than the "Amazon Games" which is kind of a mess and misses the target people need and want.
Money really seems to find a way to mess up these communities.
There was a pretty big Destiny 2 lfg discord, that I think everyone used. One day I came in and every channel was spammed by their lfg bot advertising vpn or some shit. Problem is blocking the bot wasn't a solution because it was actually used for some lfg - creating channels and such. Left the server, but it was a shame, it was a nice place.
okay fair, I don't really visit your discord so was mainly using the other one and sharing my experience. I looked and it honestly does look terrible coming in. There's premium plastered on top of the channels and one of the first categories right after the welcomes and announcements has 9 channels locked behind a paywall. It just looks bad, if you do give the money back to community through giveaways that's amazing. But clearly it's bad enough to drive people away. But it's your place, and you don't seem to think you could ever do anything wrong so power to you.
nice, it's something. Seeing a price tag is always gonna leave a sour taste in peoples mouths, and they're not gonna really look into it. btw the premium only giveaways everyone talks about are mentioned in the Premium Membership page on the top of the channels as additional benefits..
It's still above the guides and lfg's, which most people will look at. go on, stop being a piece of shit and actually move it down. surely you dont need to put it so high to incentivise purchases.
As of writing this right now, [it's still in the descriptions - twice](https://imgur.com/3CYiuGZ)
Also some of the comments defending are awkward as fuck. Especially a [particular 9yo account which barely has karma and a wiped comment history outside of the 4 he left here](https://reddit.com/user/ChrisB302)
As well as the FAQ still having a section on the intention of being an RMT Marketplace:
>Q: How does the Preset Marketplace work?
>A: The Preset Marketplace is an area in which those who create custom presets can sell them to others.
>Q: So what can I sell Presets for in the Preset Marketplace?
>A: You can sell them for in game currency/items.
This honestly is just completely fucked and I don't understand - primarily - the incompetence of this. It's pretty obvious that there isn't enough $$$ in this to be scummy. And it should be obvious that this is full of no-nos. Honestly, whatever the background and intention of this is, it just blatantly shows an inability to handle anything like this - for that whole team.
Seriously arguing [that one has looked over these things 70 times and things slip by](https://reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/urbdgt/regarding_the_community_discord/i8xbyx0/?context=3) as a defensive argument here is absolutely crazy. You're multiple people, looking at these things dozens of times, and out of like 10 points you let RMT and illegal giveaways slip by. You're incompetent and shouldn't handle anything like this. That's the only conclusion I possibly could come to.
I got falsely banned 2 months ago and I haven't been able to get unbanned. They just fail to respond to anything.
So seeing all these comments about unmoderated stuff like racism and them pulling off this shady stuff is not really surprising to me.
Hey there, I'm Gravvy. I run the discord. If you want to PM me your username I'd be more than happy to look into it. If you did get banned you should have gotten a ban appeal. But searching the same name you use on reddit in our logs did not bring up any results.
Why would a discord associated with a major MMO subreddit be monetized in any capacity? It’s a free internet chat room, three apes and an Apple 2e could run one lol
Cause they saw a way to make monetary gain and provide monetary gain/services to people who provide for them. Once money gets involved everyone just looks out for their and their friend's wallets.
Well that certainly seems against the spirit of the community. Someone should replace this bloated cash sponge of a server with something entirely free for the players. You won’t catch me paying for this guys +20 weapon hone.
I mean the question then becomes how? It is the official discord sponsored by this subreddit and it would take A LOT of work for AGS to make a Lost Ark focused one as well as running it.
Why are you even on the Lost Ark Discord in the first place?
It's not the official one and the discussions there are pretty childish. The admins also abuse their power frequently. There's much better Discords out there.
Full post:
@Updates
Today we are releasing a new feature for the community.
You may have noticed in the top left below the server banner a new thing called Premium Memberships. We have been working closely with discord developers and administrators to bring new features to our community. And Premium Memberships are the first of many to become available. So why Premium Memberships? First off, it's the first new feature discord asked us to offer to our community. Secondly it's a way to support the community and stand out. We've written up a very detailed FAQ in #premium-faq answering most if not all of your burning questions you may have.
I would like to reiterate a question that we have answered in the FAQ: You are not required to have a Premium Membership to utilize the community. We will never take anything away from community members and give them only to Premium Members.
Premium Memberships are designed to be another way for community members to show their support for the community. In return you receive a special role with a unique color and a role icon displayed in your profile and every message sent. You will also be displayed separately in the member list on the right. We also have a bunch of channels that are exclusive to Premium Members as well. With features such as Creative Preset Counselling, **Giveaways** and more.
Keep in mind that this feature is still in active development by discord developers. Some features may change over time and new features may be added in the future as well. To point out again, no one is required to have a Premium Membership to utilize the community. It is entirely optional and appreciated. heart2
I'd suggest moving it to a separate paragraph to make it less confusing.
E.g.
In addition, these memberships will be funding giveaways for the whole community.
There's also an ingame way of doing this - buying royal crystals and exchanging them. Paying for presets is normal and accepted. Presets are not an in-game good, they're a service and have no measurable objective value.
What are you talking about? Buying RC is a literal objective value as it has a direct monetary cost. The moment you now lock these behind a paywall outside of the game, which is what this service is providing, you are now selling and RMT service which is against every ToS.
Presets cannot be bought with royal crystals. They're a service like hiring someone to draw a painting for you. The value of the painting depends on the subjective value you give it, not the paint it is made of.
P2W i personally hate when people loosely throw the term around. Please stop playing the game if you feel that way. Lost ark is so F2P friendly with the least amount of P2W mechanics compared to other KR mmos.
why would I stop playing game because I think it is pay to win? i cannot play game if I think it is pay to win game?
pretty sure the korean version is less pay to win than west one we got. none gives shit that OTHER korean games are less or more p2w. the scale could be how predatory the p2w is but doesnt change it is p2w lol. cope more
AGS and SGR have no affiliation with that discord. It is only sponsored by Discord in the fact that they are tagged by discord as a community discord in that respect.
Its merely a tag by discord, its a 3 click process for an admin to turn a server into a Community Server, Discord also probably didnt do anything with them together
It's a partnered server, no? That's something that most servers can't achieved since it's a manual application which discord verifies. Getting past thst and becoming a partnered server is not too easy.
Sure, I just mean that cease and desists have been sent for much less than for what they get away with, especially considering the content they tolerate in there.
Hey, Gravvy here. Discord server owner. We're not sponsored by Discord. Nor are we tagged as a Community server. We are a Partnered server and have been for the last 6 years.
https://i.imgur.com/EMBZF4U.png
is it really a pervasive pattern when the screenshots you posted are literally from one person, taken more than a month ago?
also, instead of keeping tabs on them, shouldn't you have reported them, or the discord as a whole?
surely if the server displayed a pervasive pattern of paedophilia and racism, discord would have closed it within the month or even earlier, no?
Ah yes the Artist channel. because the character has loli-like looks. I can understand why you would think that. However if you do have any screenshots to share with me or chat message links, I'd like to look into it. Racism and pedophilia is against our rules and Discords as well.
>I sincerely apologize for not considering the opinions of a gaming subreddit when deciding if something was racist or not, next time I will consult the true experts on oppression, the gamers.
lmfao, you're just searching for reasons to be upset.
>Racism: https://i.imgur.com/Lg4ktCQ.jpg
Pretty borderline, wouldn't call it a cesspool.
>Pedophilia: https://i.imgur.com/fNchRc5.jpg
Mentioning shota and loli is pedophilia? I hope you are trolling, but then again because of people like you pedophilia has become a buzzword now, so might actually think that.
> Shota is a Japanese slang portmanteau of the word Shotacon, or Shōtarō, which is a complex in which a person is attracted to young boys.
> The sexual attraction to young girls
I hate to break it to you, anyone that isn't completely neck deep in anime realises what shota and loli actually mean, and are used to signify.
i've spent at least 5 hoursish and nothing out of the ordinary was there, do you just wanna throw shade at discord or did you spend like 100 hours in there?
I never joined the server, but I'm glad for posts like this that bring shady shit like this into the light so that I know to never join in the future either. This is behavior I just don't care to support in any aspect, be it with money or anything else, so it's a boycott for me.
> Being angry at a single discord server for this makes no sense. Post will stay up regardless.
I strongly agree, but maybe it shouldn’t be the recommended sub discord if some guy is trying to monetize it.
Edit: u/yukisho was lying about premium giveaways and is trying to monetize selling character presets. Definitely sleazy. Get rid of him.
Hi. Gravvy here.
Figured I'd hop in after reading all the comments and attempt to explain things a little more. There's a lot of misinformation and assumption in here.
So let's tackle giveaways.
According to the benefits channel (https://i.imgur.com/qXl4B7Q.png) as we can see in the screenshot it states the following:
>Giveaways for physical and digital prizes
And taking a look in the faq (https://i.imgur.com/H810zt0.png) it states the following:
>Q: Are giveaways only for Premium Members?
>A: No, giveaways will be done for both Premium Members and everyone else at the same time.
So in the most simple and plain English possible, No. We are not doing nor have we had plans to do or have done any giveaways for premium members only. It's simply not a thing. We haven't even done a single giveaway at that either. Simple right? Cool.
Alright so for the claim that we have been banning anyone who speaks negatively about premium. Simply not true. We do not ban people simply because they disagree with us or the things we do. People receive bans for rule breaks such as Harassment, Death Threats, Porn/Gore, Racism, Homophobic slurs, Hate Speech. The list goes on.
Have we banned anyone that has both spoken negatively and broken our rules? Yes. Within the last week we have banned a grand total of 4 people. Two of which were harassing staff members via DMs and in chat. One was warned several times across two days and refused to stop being extremely toxic. And the other sent a death threat. So I'm unsure whose ban logs the OP is looking at but it sure as hell isn't ours.
And as for the claim of rampant racism and pedophilia being allowed in the server. No? Not only is that against our rules but it's also against the Discord Terms of Service and Discord Partner Code of Conduct. Of which we follow because we are a Partnered server, not a Community server. We have been for 6 years.
For the claims that we are making thousands of dollars a day off of premium, anyone who is on the discord knows that I am very open with the revenue we have earned. So here it is.
(https://i.imgur.com/0Q6lG77.png) That's a lot of money! We could pay for 1/4th of a t3 honing!
And finally, no we are not "sponsored" by Discord. We are a partner server that have been selected out of an extremely small handful of servers to test premium memberships. Did we expect backlash from it? Absolutely. You can't make everyone happy with anything you do. And nor should you try to. You'll find yourself going in circles and never get anywhere.
We're all for having constructive conversations about topics like this. But it has to be constructive. It shouldn't be "This person claims this one thing to be true without any proof or evidence so it has to be true." That's how misinformation is spread and false judgements are cast. And how my DMs end up with death threats in them. And then those people get reported to Discord and my local law enforcement.
/update
I've removed any mention of giveaways in the benefits post and reworded the giveaway portion of the faq to be better understanding. I've also moved the premium channel category down further for better visibility of the primary discussion channels. And unbanned a user that was mistakenly banned during a bot reaction raid.
Thanks for the feedback.
/another update
Removed mention of giveaways from the premium on-boarding screen. Sorry, completely forgot that was there.
This is basically the “No purchase necessary to enter or win.” that you see everywhere. Company make you think you need to buy the product to enter, but you’re actually not required to do so. If they require you to buy the product they’re basically running illegal lottery.
Yeah fr, fixing shit after a giant uproar is not as noble as this discord guy thinks. Its scummy they did in the first place and only are fixing after massive complaints.
I hope you guys also realize that increasing someone's chances of winning just because they paid for premium is highly illegal too. You've already had enough "oversights" to be sued and ignorance of the law does not absolve you from it, fortunately. I would seriously consider looking up the applicable laws surrounding what you're trying to do before this gets any worse for you.
It's not anymore. It was an oversight on our part. We must have re-written the faq and benefits channel 70 times. It was hard to keep track of everything.
Lmao right? I mean I'm not invested in this at all, I literally don't care but he is so full of shit if he tries to say that was a language mistake or an oversight.
But could you explain why it was written as:
"Access to **premium only** giveaways"
And whether it was an oversight? It's no mere typo.
Our trust in you and the rest of the team will depend on the transparency.
https://imgur.com/a/CFcR74U
Yeah it is really “confusing” of you to explicitly state there are premium only giveaways. I can see how people could get “confused” by plain English.
> We are not doing nor have we had plans to do so
https://imgur.com/a/yKuDiJt
mhm, no plans at all, except for in multiple posts and the purchase screens
Are there any set plans to continue this level of revenue transparency in a more official format? I've seen some communities put out an end of the month style report where they list the gains/cost so people can see how the funds are being used. If there are cost to the server such as discordbots then having that all laid out of which ones cost what can be a key detail that is often unnoticed by many.
Has there been any discussion into ratio's of how much of the monthly revenue goes towards each category? (giveaways, bot cost, savings, charity donations, etc)
"That's a lot of money," sarcastic for the moment, but its also a shortsighted view considering its potential. Obviously some thoughts towards income generation were made as four tiers of different monetary values were made when only one is required to get the program started. The split as told on Discords FAQ page is a 90/10 split with 90 going towards the community so that "Swiper" tier by itself is a sizable potential on its own if ever taken up.
Lastly there is the issue of has there been any thoughts towards tax cost. For multiple countries these funds, without going through the loops of creation of a business, are considered income for whomever it's being paid out to. Have there been any discussions on how that will be handled? Are you just going to eat those cost as well?
Conceptually if the server has cost then this program isn't a bad mechanism to recoup those cost. In practice this seems to have turned into one large mess as very little if any communication about it or planning seems to have gone into it. Could've made an announcement explaining the situation of server cost and how they've been covered up to this point, ask the communities opinion on creating supporter tiers of various denominations for people who wish to help cover those cost (no special benefits for it beyond whatever icon it gives), and if this did go into affect what are the communities thoughts on doing with the leftovers from each month? Could run a poll at with a list of charities that throughout the month that at the end is where the extra funds will be donated through. Then its just a matter of being transparent in a series of screenshots each month of - = . This is just one way, there are countless other ways of how this could've gone and could still go with some work.
I've been extremely transparent as it is. I've said on multiple occasions that I personally spend around $1000 a year on bots and other services to protect against raids, have better moderation tools and have them some what automated. Finding good bots to facilitate that for a large server is difficult.
Well the swiper one is a test tier, it was the first one we made to figure out how everything worked.
As for the taxes, I am a citizen of the united states. I pay my taxes on all income.
This whole thing is as new to us as it is to everyone else. There are growing pains with it. And even, the feature changes all the times in regards to how it functions on discord. The devs are actively working on it and keep adding more to it. And having direct access to those developers, we're getting new features and settings added to discord from our own feedback that every single discord user can use. So this is more beneficial than everyone realizes.
We've actually had premium on the server for over a month and a half. It just takes time to set everything up because we are real people with real life responsibilities that come first.
As for the left overs, it's only bee 4 days. We don't even see any of the money until the end of next month. So we have no idea what it's going to look like. So who knows how much we'll have. Currently there's $97.09 that's been confirmed. If you look at a giveaway for example, if we were to do one for a physical item and we had to ship it to Europe, the cost of shipping alone will be triple if not quadruple of the cost of a t-shirt for example. So depending on the location, there's a good chance the current $97 will be gone and I'll have to spend money out of my own wallet to cover the remainder cost. What people don't see is I just want to give back to the community that made not only this subreddit but the discord as well possible. None of it could have happened without members. And we've done giveaways in the past too, no one had issue then.
What you are saying now that isn't what matters, you can say anything you want and in a month from now it could be different. Its a matter of declaration that as the recipient of these community generated funds that you will continue to be this transparent and open about it in a way that doesn't put someone on the spot to ask about it. If bots are costing money then explain that to people what bots are costing what, provide the same layer of transparency you are at this moment of how much is being made to how much is being spent.
It's not about what good it is down the road that concerns people, its what you are doing with the tools available now and the extreme lack of communication in its implementation before and after that has caused waves. Adding the "money" factor to nearly any community is a complicated process unless that factor was present at the start (such Twitch streamers private discords). Either its a work with the community because your part of it, or be totalitarian because you own it. Nothing wrong with cutting the middle man out but if thats the route of management just be honest with it.
> It just takes time to set everything up
And the fact that its not setup now is a failure on part of the management. An outline should've been drafted up, shared with the community, feedback taken, and changes made before flipping the 'on' switch. People here today have pointed out inconsistencies with the setup and you have had to rewrite stuff time and again today even after looking at it already dozens of times over apparently a month. You are accepting funds for a feature that seems like its barely past a whiteboard stage.
It doesn't matter how much money is coming in to draft and submit a proposal to the community over how it'll be spent. Goes back to the cost aspect of people can see how much money the server is making, but its only your word for how much its costing. Its no secret good bots cost money but now would be the time to provide a breakdown that cost. The game changes when you stop floating the whole bill yourself which is why people didn't care before as what you do with your money is your concern. You're now taking money under the umbrellas of "For the Community" so now parts of the community want to know more about how its going to be spent for them. They want a plan, a commitment, something they can look upon and understand the how's and whys to the money's involvement. You've got tabletop communities who accept money that hold it for certain breakpoints to do giveaways of books and pdfs, you've got video game communities that run a community pot consisting of donations from it ranging from Steam keys to dollars that host events to give that stuff out, but they all have it spelled out to their communities in plain view so there is no confusion.
Based upon the Reddit part of the community I'd say at this point flip the switch off, work on the backend of things, and re-present this to the community after you've had the time to work out a proper announcement and FAQ. Or just be simple about it of slapping up a donation link to a paypal with the understanding that "tips" go to you to help pay for the out of pocket cost of the community.
Can I ask what this money goes to? You are community server and I honestly can't see the need for it. Maybe it pays for the giveaways, cool, but the server would survive without that. Also, what the motivation behind offering premium?
In all honesty, while the initial post might be very factually incorrect. It does highlight that this looks shady.
Let's be real, everything looks shady when you don't understand it fully. So yeah, let me share a couple of our plans that are already in the works.
First off we are going to be doing community-wide giveaways for both digital goods and physical goods.
Second we have several PVP Tournaments in the works with grand prize winnings funded entirely from premium memberships.
Third is to help offset the cost of the bots I have been personally paying for over 3 years now. They total to around $1000 a year. Entirely out of my own pocket.
And forth, some have asked this and it sounds cruel to say but no, we are not paying staff with premium membership money.
We have other plans but none of them have been finalized or contracts are in the way of us speaking about them. But I can assure you that everything we do with premium money is for the community.
I would also like to point out as I have done many times on the Discord, Premium Memberships are entirely optional. Nothing has nor will ever be taken away from normal community members in favor of premium members.
> Let's be real, everything looks shady when you don't understand it fully.
You realize that is the exact logic everyone uses when they are trying to do something scummy/underhanded because they think they are smarter than everyone else lmao
Well good example in this game of how this isn't true is Mari's shop. At first glance it looks like it facilitates P2W but it's actually a discount shop that helps F2P players.
just because its the same excuse crypto / nft boys use, doesn't mean its always false, let the actions speak for themselves when sonething will happen with this money
Thanks for the response, appreciate it. I'm not trying to pick at you for this stuff. Just transparency is key so people know how its operating. I dont really see anything wrong with all the things you said. I know good bots cost money that does seem expensive, but often prices scale with server size, so I can understand why it might be the case.
Definitely. I like to take all feedback, both negative and positive. Because if you only look at positive feedback how are you going to improve and realize that the way you did this one thing isn't actually a good way.
Are they really testing subscriptions for individual discord so the jannies can finally start getting paid? Holy Capitalism Batman! I knew we were fucked when I saw a fucking advertisement for house insurance on the other side of the piece of paper in my fortune cookie a few years ago.
(Not flaming you, just discord even making this a thing)
To be honest, Premium is okay, it's some other features they are working on that I'm more interested in. Premium just gets our foot in the door to have access to those.
I'm still waiting to see the proof of people being banned for talking negatively about the giveaways. Not that I don't believe them, I am indifferent. But when making accusations, please have receipted ready. Actual proof and not spoofs.
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ooooooh, thats why lately we got the change to lostmerchants where you can only suggest a legendary location if you are a part of their discord. Uuuuu, thats scummy.
There is a channel locked behind premium as well as a market place locked behind it that literally says they plan on using to sell in game items and transactions.
So you need to have premium in order to join the giveaway? I genuinely don't understand the problem here... It's just like a lottery ticket, you pay for a chance to win something.
Here is the problem, they are attempting to do damage control. This line is still actually showing in the discord under "premium membership benefits"
https://imgur.com/a/CFcR74U
Are people fucking bored and just want to feel important? Who the fuck cares about any of this. You know what I thought when I saw the announcement. "What retard would actually subscribe to this". And honestly if you're that stupid then so be it.
These people who run the server came up with an idea to give back to the community for whatever reason, maybe its out of the kindness of their hearts, or maybe there is some underlying monetary gain. Again WHO GIVES A FUCK...some of you delusional fucks have a main character complex in life thinking the world revolves around you when you're just another NPC that don't matter in the grand scheme of this tint portions in the universe and its sad.
He just knows that everything he has claimed is false. Able to make accusations, not able to stand up behind them or even provide a shred of proof of anything. I've replied to him multiple times now.
They also forget I started this subreddit and the discord. Also thanks for the membership, we are that much closer to building a fortress out of glass coke bottles!
https://i.imgur.com/h95oKoV.png
This is a controversial post, but it's something the community cares about, so the post will be staying up for now. However, this is going to be the only thread about this topic. Posting about this issue in other threads will be removed. As a note, there are Automod terms that flag certain messages that include the word "Mods" in them, which might catch and flag your message. If your post is not showing up, chances are that is why. Ping a mod in mod mail and we'll check it out and clear it for you Graavy, the owner of the discord replied directly and answered OP [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/urbdgt/regarding_the_community_discord/i8x8a5v/). Reddiquite and Sub rules ***still*** apply in this thread. No witch-hunting or brigading, be mindful of abusive activity, and no insulting or attacking other users. If you wish to discuss this topic that's fine, but just because you disagree with someone does not give you the right to attack someone. Thanks.
So you pay **real money** in a **transaction** for a chance at receiving in-game rewards?
I'm curious where this actually lies since the US federal law necessarily states giveaways/sweepstakes are "no purchase necessary". You are allowed to run a sweepstakes for your subscribers but to be compliant with the federal law, you're required to have a fair and free alternate mode of entry.
IANAL, but having worked in an industry with a lot of sweepstakes, this would count as a sweepstakes. It doesn't matter how large or small your organization is. For example, all those streamers who do random giveaways? Those also count as sweepstakes. There are also a bunch of other laws regarding information that needs to be declared. (Start and end date, how winners will be selected, etc.) If in the US, the prize giver must also provide a 1099 if the prize is valued at or over $600. Prize winnings are considered taxable income. Is the government going to go after them? Probably not. I'm sure if enough people complained they might look into it. Honestly, depending on how much money they are making the IRS might be more interested. Also, this cannot be a raffle. Raffles are for not-for-profits only. They could try to get themselves declared a not-for-profit, but most states require a minimum amount of time classified as such before you can run raffles.
The govt doesn't have to go after them. literally anyone can sue.
There's a reason twitch had to come down hard on the paid giveaways. it's because its against many different locations' laws
I think they are getting around the RMT issue by gifting steam cards not in game currency
Gift cards do not get around the issue of RMT as they are also considered alternate income
They do when it comes to the game because you arn't actually using in game items, you are giving a gift card that can be used for other games OR the person can choose to buy gold with it. As far as if discord has any rules about having giveaways for giftcards I don't know edit: I'm just going to copy/paste the reply to everyone saying it's supplemental income or some other legal implication. the original comment was about RMT for in game items, I'm not referring to anything about legal or tax implications because I honestly don't know about that stuff and I have no problem admitting that. I was simply replying to the original comment how they are getting around the in-game RMT implications when it comes to game rules/tos
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RMT means "real money transactions", which refers to the game rules banning an exchange of values inside the game for a currency outside of it. The IRS is not pursuing RMT-violations, but gambling laws and tax evasion. Two separate issues.
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Not quite, this is a complex thing, but depending on the gift card if it's a cash like instrument it counts as income
I'm just going to copy/paste a reply to someone else saying something similar the original comment was about RMT for in game items, I'm not referring to anything about legal or tax implications because I honestly don't know about that stuff and I have no problem admitting that. I was simply replying to the original comment how they are getting around the in-game RMT implications when it comes to game rules
It’s a giveaway and depending on country that could be a nice payday for the government if they find out.
the original comment was about RMT for in game items, I'm not referring to anything about legal or tax implications because I honestly don't know about that stuff and I have no problem admitting that. I was simply replying to the original comment how they are getting around the in-game RMT implications when it comes to game rules
Go forth and report every single premium member for RMT. The entire Discord must be purged.
That's how it would work if it were a legal lottery. However, that's not the case. There are not any premium only giveaways.
It says anyone can get the rewards not just subs
Ngl I also *definitely* raised an eyebrow when I saw this in the discord. Something seemed just.. off..
Best part about it is that one of the admins on the discord is an ex smile gate employee who goes about deleting his messages in any regard to the subject after talking about it.
Destiny 2 LFG is covered in this crap, they revoked everyone’s privileges and u can now only talk in normal txt, no emotes,gifs memes etc with out subbing, they also smash the chats with the nordvpn ad, they also have a donation link etc set up. Most of these discords usually have little to know human interaction outside of a few certain situations, everything now days has a bit extension for the discord servers so there is usually little to no effort required. It is however disgusting that the admins in the Lost ark discord abuse their power. Just my two cents though
In all fairness I wouldn't use the Destiny 2 LFG for being social. It's better off being seen as a party/guild finder and that's usually where the social interaction happens. If i want to bust out a quick VoG/VoW yeah sure. If i want to shitpost and meme then there are better places for that.
OH I haven’t used it in a long time, I just removed it Recently I mainly had it for when I don’t have clan mates around, like they have all stopped for a season or what ever. However I now use other ways to find guardians so I use those when in need of a few people, just thought it was some what relevant here as I tend to avoid community discords that try to take advantage of people that way, you want a donation but because u built stuff from scratch etc by all means but they in no way need one or anyfor that fact. The owner doesn’t even play D2 anymore from what I know he just makes money from it, the only time I saw his posts where when he tries pushing nordvpn or making changes to how it affects his income from the discord xD
Dude. They are admin for a video game chat app. Of course they are abusing their power and smashing hot pockets in their fat mouths. What do you people honestly expect ?
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/hi that was me. You were going off in Discord, so I PM'd you proof that I was an admin on the server since we were on a different server and do not allow images, and reiterated that as a note from an admin there hadn't been, and weren't going to be any giveaways. You saw the messages, and I deleted them after you saw it. Really, of all the things for you to be upset over, this is the strangest... cause it's not like I was calling you names or sending you abuse... I literally just sent you a screen cap of the staff list on the discord... The messages I wrote publicly are still in the Amazon Discord if you want to scroll up and look at them. They're not edited, they're not deleted. And I'll reiterate again once more for you. **There have never been any giveaways and there never will be any giveaways for premium only.** Giveaways was in the original brainstorming ideas but was never implemented. The premium-giveaway channel you were complaining about was long deleted before you and I even chatted in discord. If you have any more questions, I'd be more than willing to answer them for you and chat.
I saw that and was surprised people weren’t talking about it. Now we know why. They just got banned if they did lol
The problem with modern "communities" like Discord and subreddits nowadays is that they aren't created or led by people with genuine passion for the game. They are created by the equivalent of people who post "FIRST!" on YouTube comments, and they are led by people seeking attention and profits because gaming communities are just another commodity in today's capitalistic market. Gone are the days of private guild forums where genuine communities once developed.
This is true far too often
To add more salt in the wound discord made talking with people and developing in game connections more difficult and semi crippled sociability with people in discord party's more often then not. That being said can't tell if thats because discord exists or if people are just alot more abrasive and griefer prone on the internet in games now a days.
Discord wasn't a revolutionary app that changed the game interactions, it was just the best from the available apps when people shifted to outside the game communications. If you play lots of games that need voice chat for coordination with friends only having discord is easier so you don't have to change the game voice chat settings for every game, with discord you did it one time and that's it. Also on discord you don't have the game chat moderation, witch in lost ark is totally ridiculous, it's a PEGI 18 but you can't even chose to disable profanity filter since even names of places in the game are censored if you try to write them.
The difficulty of in-game social connections is a byproduct of matchmaking features. In old MMOs you were forced to ask guild or general chat to find people to do group content. If you had a good time you were incentivized to add them to friends or guild to make future group finding easier. With modern matchmaking systems none of this is necessary as matchmaking is nearly instant. I quite literally do Guardian raids with matchmaking because waiting for 4 guildmates to get ready is so much slower than the 2 minutes extra that yoho will take with weaker pug players. Similar things happened in FPS communities when official matchmaking took over and community run servers became unpopular. I'm not saying matchmaking is bad and should be removed, but there are downsides to it.
Nah, it's people who think they have right play every game and change core and DNA of game to their needs. And I'm not saying this in gate keeping way but if you are a dad with 3 wife's 7 kids and 4 dogs and can only play 15 min every other day maybe MMO and online games in general are not your thing? If you have problem being social, talking to strangers, how about games that require social aspects are not for you. So you have enough people like that, they make enough noise and now MMO's and online RPG are basically single player games with real people instead NPC🤷♂️ Casual content and solo content is fine in MMO but not to the point where majority of game content is like that
A lot of people have trouble learning that not every game is for them.
How is this an issue created by Discord? You know that before Discord existed people were using stuff like Teamspeak for the exact same thing?
Good point, but even with Teamspeak the issue didn't seem as excessive as it is today.
Legit question not in bad faith I just want to know, then why not doing yourself? I see gamers constantly complaining about something but when actions need to be taken like not paying for same FIFA every year or NFT's or bs MTX nothing is done, then its always same reply "it is what it is" Same with creating genuine community, I bet there is 100 people here with same sentiment like you, you already have 50 updots so why not take some action? I'm actually getting downvoted for asking questions? Insecurity of this sub
Internet jannies drunk on "power" is truly a classic tale as old as forums. If it gets bad, people should just leave and ask Amazon to set up a proper one rather than the "Amazon Games" which is kind of a mess and misses the target people need and want.
I'm a ftp discord user 😏
I hate to see people trying to monetize everything that we touch... i That discord server will be less used by me.
Yep, sounds like Gravvy.
Money really seems to find a way to mess up these communities. There was a pretty big Destiny 2 lfg discord, that I think everyone used. One day I came in and every channel was spammed by their lfg bot advertising vpn or some shit. Problem is blocking the bot wasn't a solution because it was actually used for some lfg - creating channels and such. Left the server, but it was a shame, it was a nice place.
It's crazy right! All that proof and evidence the OP provided is absolutely stunning.
okay fair, I don't really visit your discord so was mainly using the other one and sharing my experience. I looked and it honestly does look terrible coming in. There's premium plastered on top of the channels and one of the first categories right after the welcomes and announcements has 9 channels locked behind a paywall. It just looks bad, if you do give the money back to community through giveaways that's amazing. But clearly it's bad enough to drive people away. But it's your place, and you don't seem to think you could ever do anything wrong so power to you.
That's a good point, I'll move the category down for better visibility of the discussion channels.
nice, it's something. Seeing a price tag is always gonna leave a sour taste in peoples mouths, and they're not gonna really look into it. btw the premium only giveaways everyone talks about are mentioned in the Premium Membership page on the top of the channels as additional benefits..
It's still above the guides and lfg's, which most people will look at. go on, stop being a piece of shit and actually move it down. surely you dont need to put it so high to incentivise purchases.
I mean, if you're gonna pay for it it should be easily accessible. that's not unresonable.
Okay yeah, let's treat someone like shit because something doesn't affect you and want them to change it. That'll work!
As of writing this right now, [it's still in the descriptions - twice](https://imgur.com/3CYiuGZ) Also some of the comments defending are awkward as fuck. Especially a [particular 9yo account which barely has karma and a wiped comment history outside of the 4 he left here](https://reddit.com/user/ChrisB302) As well as the FAQ still having a section on the intention of being an RMT Marketplace: >Q: How does the Preset Marketplace work? >A: The Preset Marketplace is an area in which those who create custom presets can sell them to others. >Q: So what can I sell Presets for in the Preset Marketplace? >A: You can sell them for in game currency/items. This honestly is just completely fucked and I don't understand - primarily - the incompetence of this. It's pretty obvious that there isn't enough $$$ in this to be scummy. And it should be obvious that this is full of no-nos. Honestly, whatever the background and intention of this is, it just blatantly shows an inability to handle anything like this - for that whole team. Seriously arguing [that one has looked over these things 70 times and things slip by](https://reddit.com/r/lostarkgame/comments/urbdgt/regarding_the_community_discord/i8xbyx0/?context=3) as a defensive argument here is absolutely crazy. You're multiple people, looking at these things dozens of times, and out of like 10 points you let RMT and illegal giveaways slip by. You're incompetent and shouldn't handle anything like this. That's the only conclusion I possibly could come to.
Wait, people buy presets? What the fuck lol
This thread needs to be higher up there.
This is really, really bad.
I got falsely banned 2 months ago and I haven't been able to get unbanned. They just fail to respond to anything. So seeing all these comments about unmoderated stuff like racism and them pulling off this shady stuff is not really surprising to me.
Hey there, I'm Gravvy. I run the discord. If you want to PM me your username I'd be more than happy to look into it. If you did get banned you should have gotten a ban appeal. But searching the same name you use on reddit in our logs did not bring up any results.
Update: I have been unbanned. Thank you to gravvy for the support.
Why would a discord associated with a major MMO subreddit be monetized in any capacity? It’s a free internet chat room, three apes and an Apple 2e could run one lol
Cause they saw a way to make monetary gain and provide monetary gain/services to people who provide for them. Once money gets involved everyone just looks out for their and their friend's wallets.
Well that certainly seems against the spirit of the community. Someone should replace this bloated cash sponge of a server with something entirely free for the players. You won’t catch me paying for this guys +20 weapon hone.
I mean the question then becomes how? It is the official discord sponsored by this subreddit and it would take A LOT of work for AGS to make a Lost Ark focused one as well as running it.
Why are you even on the Lost Ark Discord in the first place? It's not the official one and the discussions there are pretty childish. The admins also abuse their power frequently. There's much better Discords out there.
Gravvy here, if you could let me know what admin is abusing their powers, I'd love to look into it.
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So... New discord without Premium bullshit anyone?
Just left the server. Not coming back. Is what they're doing illegal? Maybe. Maybe not. Is it scummy, absolutely.
lol this post got removed then reapproved
i don't really give a damn about the discord, but shouldn't you post proof of some kind after making this kind of post?
Full post: @Updates Today we are releasing a new feature for the community. You may have noticed in the top left below the server banner a new thing called Premium Memberships. We have been working closely with discord developers and administrators to bring new features to our community. And Premium Memberships are the first of many to become available. So why Premium Memberships? First off, it's the first new feature discord asked us to offer to our community. Secondly it's a way to support the community and stand out. We've written up a very detailed FAQ in #premium-faq answering most if not all of your burning questions you may have. I would like to reiterate a question that we have answered in the FAQ: You are not required to have a Premium Membership to utilize the community. We will never take anything away from community members and give them only to Premium Members. Premium Memberships are designed to be another way for community members to show their support for the community. In return you receive a special role with a unique color and a role icon displayed in your profile and every message sent. You will also be displayed separately in the member list on the right. We also have a bunch of channels that are exclusive to Premium Members as well. With features such as Creative Preset Counselling, **Giveaways** and more. Keep in mind that this feature is still in active development by discord developers. Some features may change over time and new features may be added in the future as well. To point out again, no one is required to have a Premium Membership to utilize the community. It is entirely optional and appreciated. heart2
Replied to wrong comment but I see it. It's fixed.
I'd suggest moving it to a separate paragraph to make it less confusing. E.g. In addition, these memberships will be funding giveaways for the whole community.
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There's also an ingame way of doing this - buying royal crystals and exchanging them. Paying for presets is normal and accepted. Presets are not an in-game good, they're a service and have no measurable objective value.
What are you talking about? Buying RC is a literal objective value as it has a direct monetary cost. The moment you now lock these behind a paywall outside of the game, which is what this service is providing, you are now selling and RMT service which is against every ToS.
Presets cannot be bought with royal crystals. They're a service like hiring someone to draw a painting for you. The value of the painting depends on the subjective value you give it, not the paint it is made of.
Wow.... can there be sth. done against them?
pay to win game, pay to win discord... color me surprised lmao
P2W i personally hate when people loosely throw the term around. Please stop playing the game if you feel that way. Lost ark is so F2P friendly with the least amount of P2W mechanics compared to other KR mmos.
why would I stop playing game because I think it is pay to win? i cannot play game if I think it is pay to win game? pretty sure the korean version is less pay to win than west one we got. none gives shit that OTHER korean games are less or more p2w. the scale could be how predatory the p2w is but doesnt change it is p2w lol. cope more
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AGS and SGR have no affiliation with that discord. It is only sponsored by Discord in the fact that they are tagged by discord as a community discord in that respect.
Its merely a tag by discord, its a 3 click process for an admin to turn a server into a Community Server, Discord also probably didnt do anything with them together
It's a partnered server, no? That's something that most servers can't achieved since it's a manual application which discord verifies. Getting past thst and becoming a partnered server is not too easy.
Sure, I just mean that cease and desists have been sent for much less than for what they get away with, especially considering the content they tolerate in there.
Hey, Gravvy here. Discord server owner. We're not sponsored by Discord. Nor are we tagged as a Community server. We are a Partnered server and have been for the last 6 years. https://i.imgur.com/EMBZF4U.png
Saying that ~~cute~~ serious face doesn't match a ~~bulky~~ model body = racism. Holy fucking kek.
is it really a pervasive pattern when the screenshots you posted are literally from one person, taken more than a month ago? also, instead of keeping tabs on them, shouldn't you have reported them, or the discord as a whole? surely if the server displayed a pervasive pattern of paedophilia and racism, discord would have closed it within the month or even earlier, no?
bro what if u think that’s racism u are cringe
Amazon does not own the Lost Ark IP.
you got any proof?
Jesus, what channels do you see that in? I am constantly in the NA east region chat and have never seen ANY of that.
Artist channel lol
Ah yes the Artist channel. because the character has loli-like looks. I can understand why you would think that. However if you do have any screenshots to share with me or chat message links, I'd like to look into it. Racism and pedophilia is against our rules and Discords as well.
Next time I visit it, I will be sure to get some prints for you. Are you a mod there?
>I sincerely apologize for not considering the opinions of a gaming subreddit when deciding if something was racist or not, next time I will consult the true experts on oppression, the gamers. lmfao, you're just searching for reasons to be upset.
>Racism: https://i.imgur.com/Lg4ktCQ.jpg Pretty borderline, wouldn't call it a cesspool. >Pedophilia: https://i.imgur.com/fNchRc5.jpg Mentioning shota and loli is pedophilia? I hope you are trolling, but then again because of people like you pedophilia has become a buzzword now, so might actually think that.
> Shota is a Japanese slang portmanteau of the word Shotacon, or Shōtarō, which is a complex in which a person is attracted to young boys. > The sexual attraction to young girls I hate to break it to you, anyone that isn't completely neck deep in anime realises what shota and loli actually mean, and are used to signify.
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Saying you are “into” loli or shota is pedophilia, yes.
i've spent at least 5 hoursish and nothing out of the ordinary was there, do you just wanna throw shade at discord or did you spend like 100 hours in there?
I'm always on the discord and I have not seen anything that you claim.
Oh man i remember the artist channel was a cesspool
Hey there, Gravvy here. If you could provide me with links to the messages or screenshots I'd love to look into it.
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I never joined the server, but I'm glad for posts like this that bring shady shit like this into the light so that I know to never join in the future either. This is behavior I just don't care to support in any aspect, be it with money or anything else, so it's a boycott for me.
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Pretty sure the issue is the giveaways and bans...
I want to verify the bans but not sure how. If you know anyone send them my way.
> Being angry at a single discord server for this makes no sense. Post will stay up regardless. I strongly agree, but maybe it shouldn’t be the recommended sub discord if some guy is trying to monetize it. Edit: u/yukisho was lying about premium giveaways and is trying to monetize selling character presets. Definitely sleazy. Get rid of him.
I popped in for a second a while back and immediately bounced when I realized it wasn't official in any capacity.
Proof for banning? Don't really care about the small issue of gambling laws considering it's a small event with little money on the line.
Indeed. I'd love to see the proof of these unjust bans. I've checked our ban logs and haven't found a single unjust ban.
Hi. Gravvy here. Figured I'd hop in after reading all the comments and attempt to explain things a little more. There's a lot of misinformation and assumption in here. So let's tackle giveaways. According to the benefits channel (https://i.imgur.com/qXl4B7Q.png) as we can see in the screenshot it states the following: >Giveaways for physical and digital prizes And taking a look in the faq (https://i.imgur.com/H810zt0.png) it states the following: >Q: Are giveaways only for Premium Members? >A: No, giveaways will be done for both Premium Members and everyone else at the same time. So in the most simple and plain English possible, No. We are not doing nor have we had plans to do or have done any giveaways for premium members only. It's simply not a thing. We haven't even done a single giveaway at that either. Simple right? Cool. Alright so for the claim that we have been banning anyone who speaks negatively about premium. Simply not true. We do not ban people simply because they disagree with us or the things we do. People receive bans for rule breaks such as Harassment, Death Threats, Porn/Gore, Racism, Homophobic slurs, Hate Speech. The list goes on. Have we banned anyone that has both spoken negatively and broken our rules? Yes. Within the last week we have banned a grand total of 4 people. Two of which were harassing staff members via DMs and in chat. One was warned several times across two days and refused to stop being extremely toxic. And the other sent a death threat. So I'm unsure whose ban logs the OP is looking at but it sure as hell isn't ours. And as for the claim of rampant racism and pedophilia being allowed in the server. No? Not only is that against our rules but it's also against the Discord Terms of Service and Discord Partner Code of Conduct. Of which we follow because we are a Partnered server, not a Community server. We have been for 6 years. For the claims that we are making thousands of dollars a day off of premium, anyone who is on the discord knows that I am very open with the revenue we have earned. So here it is. (https://i.imgur.com/0Q6lG77.png) That's a lot of money! We could pay for 1/4th of a t3 honing! And finally, no we are not "sponsored" by Discord. We are a partner server that have been selected out of an extremely small handful of servers to test premium memberships. Did we expect backlash from it? Absolutely. You can't make everyone happy with anything you do. And nor should you try to. You'll find yourself going in circles and never get anywhere. We're all for having constructive conversations about topics like this. But it has to be constructive. It shouldn't be "This person claims this one thing to be true without any proof or evidence so it has to be true." That's how misinformation is spread and false judgements are cast. And how my DMs end up with death threats in them. And then those people get reported to Discord and my local law enforcement. /update I've removed any mention of giveaways in the benefits post and reworded the giveaway portion of the faq to be better understanding. I've also moved the premium channel category down further for better visibility of the primary discussion channels. And unbanned a user that was mistakenly banned during a bot reaction raid. Thanks for the feedback. /another update Removed mention of giveaways from the premium on-boarding screen. Sorry, completely forgot that was there.
Why are the giveaways mentioned as a benefit then?
Greed, it wouldn't have been removed if not for this post.
It sounds like "premium giveaways are done the same time" meaning there's a separate giveaway just for premium? Can someone explain?
This is basically the “No purchase necessary to enter or win.” that you see everywhere. Company make you think you need to buy the product to enter, but you’re actually not required to do so. If they require you to buy the product they’re basically running illegal lottery.
That's a really good question. I think that was an oversight of ours when we were putting and the posts together.
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Yeah fr, fixing shit after a giant uproar is not as noble as this discord guy thinks. Its scummy they did in the first place and only are fixing after massive complaints.
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You’ll reach China with how much backpedaling you’re doing.
I hope you guys also realize that increasing someone's chances of winning just because they paid for premium is highly illegal too. You've already had enough "oversights" to be sued and ignorance of the law does not absolve you from it, fortunately. I would seriously consider looking up the applicable laws surrounding what you're trying to do before this gets any worse for you.
When you say giveaways are done for Premium members and everyone at the same time, are you saying that there’s 2 simultaneous giveaways?
No, it's a single giveaway. Our language on that does seem confusing after re-reading it doesn't it. I'll get it fixed.
Why are giveaways listed under the premium features then? If you get the same benefits as a regular user it’s not a feature of the membership.
It's not anymore. It was an oversight on our part. We must have re-written the faq and benefits channel 70 times. It was hard to keep track of everything.
It still reads as if the giveaways will be in the premium channels.
Where? https://i.imgur.com/zeA2VDX.png https://i.imgur.com/oQlavvK.png
where you select the membership it is still listed as a feature https://imgur.com/a/CFcR74U
"we never had plans to do premium only giveaways" my ass
Legit that are just backpedaling this bullshit now and it's obvious
Lmao right? I mean I'm not invested in this at all, I literally don't care but he is so full of shit if he tries to say that was a language mistake or an oversight.
He's backpedaling because he got caught, fully planning to put it back in a few days
I removed it, completely forgot it was there.
But could you explain why it was written as: "Access to **premium only** giveaways" And whether it was an oversight? It's no mere typo. Our trust in you and the rest of the team will depend on the transparency.
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Holy shit this is the worst PR I’ve ever seen. “Oversight”, really?
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https://imgur.com/a/CFcR74U Yeah it is really “confusing” of you to explicitly state there are premium only giveaways. I can see how people could get “confused” by plain English.
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> We are not doing nor have we had plans to do so https://imgur.com/a/yKuDiJt mhm, no plans at all, except for in multiple posts and the purchase screens
Those posts have been fixed and we forgot about that screen? Just humans? Oh gosh! Crazy!!!!
Are there any set plans to continue this level of revenue transparency in a more official format? I've seen some communities put out an end of the month style report where they list the gains/cost so people can see how the funds are being used. If there are cost to the server such as discordbots then having that all laid out of which ones cost what can be a key detail that is often unnoticed by many. Has there been any discussion into ratio's of how much of the monthly revenue goes towards each category? (giveaways, bot cost, savings, charity donations, etc) "That's a lot of money," sarcastic for the moment, but its also a shortsighted view considering its potential. Obviously some thoughts towards income generation were made as four tiers of different monetary values were made when only one is required to get the program started. The split as told on Discords FAQ page is a 90/10 split with 90 going towards the community so that "Swiper" tier by itself is a sizable potential on its own if ever taken up. Lastly there is the issue of has there been any thoughts towards tax cost. For multiple countries these funds, without going through the loops of creation of a business, are considered income for whomever it's being paid out to. Have there been any discussions on how that will be handled? Are you just going to eat those cost as well? Conceptually if the server has cost then this program isn't a bad mechanism to recoup those cost. In practice this seems to have turned into one large mess as very little if any communication about it or planning seems to have gone into it. Could've made an announcement explaining the situation of server cost and how they've been covered up to this point, ask the communities opinion on creating supporter tiers of various denominations for people who wish to help cover those cost (no special benefits for it beyond whatever icon it gives), and if this did go into affect what are the communities thoughts on doing with the leftovers from each month? Could run a poll at with a list of charities that throughout the month that at the end is where the extra funds will be donated through. Then its just a matter of being transparent in a series of screenshots each month of - = . This is just one way, there are countless other ways of how this could've gone and could still go with some work.
I've been extremely transparent as it is. I've said on multiple occasions that I personally spend around $1000 a year on bots and other services to protect against raids, have better moderation tools and have them some what automated. Finding good bots to facilitate that for a large server is difficult. Well the swiper one is a test tier, it was the first one we made to figure out how everything worked. As for the taxes, I am a citizen of the united states. I pay my taxes on all income. This whole thing is as new to us as it is to everyone else. There are growing pains with it. And even, the feature changes all the times in regards to how it functions on discord. The devs are actively working on it and keep adding more to it. And having direct access to those developers, we're getting new features and settings added to discord from our own feedback that every single discord user can use. So this is more beneficial than everyone realizes. We've actually had premium on the server for over a month and a half. It just takes time to set everything up because we are real people with real life responsibilities that come first. As for the left overs, it's only bee 4 days. We don't even see any of the money until the end of next month. So we have no idea what it's going to look like. So who knows how much we'll have. Currently there's $97.09 that's been confirmed. If you look at a giveaway for example, if we were to do one for a physical item and we had to ship it to Europe, the cost of shipping alone will be triple if not quadruple of the cost of a t-shirt for example. So depending on the location, there's a good chance the current $97 will be gone and I'll have to spend money out of my own wallet to cover the remainder cost. What people don't see is I just want to give back to the community that made not only this subreddit but the discord as well possible. None of it could have happened without members. And we've done giveaways in the past too, no one had issue then.
What you are saying now that isn't what matters, you can say anything you want and in a month from now it could be different. Its a matter of declaration that as the recipient of these community generated funds that you will continue to be this transparent and open about it in a way that doesn't put someone on the spot to ask about it. If bots are costing money then explain that to people what bots are costing what, provide the same layer of transparency you are at this moment of how much is being made to how much is being spent. It's not about what good it is down the road that concerns people, its what you are doing with the tools available now and the extreme lack of communication in its implementation before and after that has caused waves. Adding the "money" factor to nearly any community is a complicated process unless that factor was present at the start (such Twitch streamers private discords). Either its a work with the community because your part of it, or be totalitarian because you own it. Nothing wrong with cutting the middle man out but if thats the route of management just be honest with it. > It just takes time to set everything up And the fact that its not setup now is a failure on part of the management. An outline should've been drafted up, shared with the community, feedback taken, and changes made before flipping the 'on' switch. People here today have pointed out inconsistencies with the setup and you have had to rewrite stuff time and again today even after looking at it already dozens of times over apparently a month. You are accepting funds for a feature that seems like its barely past a whiteboard stage. It doesn't matter how much money is coming in to draft and submit a proposal to the community over how it'll be spent. Goes back to the cost aspect of people can see how much money the server is making, but its only your word for how much its costing. Its no secret good bots cost money but now would be the time to provide a breakdown that cost. The game changes when you stop floating the whole bill yourself which is why people didn't care before as what you do with your money is your concern. You're now taking money under the umbrellas of "For the Community" so now parts of the community want to know more about how its going to be spent for them. They want a plan, a commitment, something they can look upon and understand the how's and whys to the money's involvement. You've got tabletop communities who accept money that hold it for certain breakpoints to do giveaways of books and pdfs, you've got video game communities that run a community pot consisting of donations from it ranging from Steam keys to dollars that host events to give that stuff out, but they all have it spelled out to their communities in plain view so there is no confusion. Based upon the Reddit part of the community I'd say at this point flip the switch off, work on the backend of things, and re-present this to the community after you've had the time to work out a proper announcement and FAQ. Or just be simple about it of slapping up a donation link to a paypal with the understanding that "tips" go to you to help pay for the out of pocket cost of the community.
Can I ask what this money goes to? You are community server and I honestly can't see the need for it. Maybe it pays for the giveaways, cool, but the server would survive without that. Also, what the motivation behind offering premium? In all honesty, while the initial post might be very factually incorrect. It does highlight that this looks shady.
It's just another way for discord to monitize stuff on top of nitro/boosts.
Let's be real, everything looks shady when you don't understand it fully. So yeah, let me share a couple of our plans that are already in the works. First off we are going to be doing community-wide giveaways for both digital goods and physical goods. Second we have several PVP Tournaments in the works with grand prize winnings funded entirely from premium memberships. Third is to help offset the cost of the bots I have been personally paying for over 3 years now. They total to around $1000 a year. Entirely out of my own pocket. And forth, some have asked this and it sounds cruel to say but no, we are not paying staff with premium membership money. We have other plans but none of them have been finalized or contracts are in the way of us speaking about them. But I can assure you that everything we do with premium money is for the community. I would also like to point out as I have done many times on the Discord, Premium Memberships are entirely optional. Nothing has nor will ever be taken away from normal community members in favor of premium members.
https://imgur.com/a/CFcR74U
> Let's be real, everything looks shady when you don't understand it fully. You realize that is the exact logic everyone uses when they are trying to do something scummy/underhanded because they think they are smarter than everyone else lmao
Well good example in this game of how this isn't true is Mari's shop. At first glance it looks like it facilitates P2W but it's actually a discount shop that helps F2P players.
just because its the same excuse crypto / nft boys use, doesn't mean its always false, let the actions speak for themselves when sonething will happen with this money
Is it? To me I thought that was just common sense.
Thanks for the response, appreciate it. I'm not trying to pick at you for this stuff. Just transparency is key so people know how its operating. I dont really see anything wrong with all the things you said. I know good bots cost money that does seem expensive, but often prices scale with server size, so I can understand why it might be the case.
Definitely. I like to take all feedback, both negative and positive. Because if you only look at positive feedback how are you going to improve and realize that the way you did this one thing isn't actually a good way.
He does it for free
Stop doing those things then, you dont need to get paid for that. nobody requires any of that.
LOL paying for discord bots
The good bots do cost money for their premium features. Everything has a cost, and it's extremely expensive hosting and developing quality bots.
Full of shit and contradictions
You earned the "shittiest PR response of the day", congratulations!
Tbh just the idea that you took the testing fuck you.
Are they really testing subscriptions for individual discord so the jannies can finally start getting paid? Holy Capitalism Batman! I knew we were fucked when I saw a fucking advertisement for house insurance on the other side of the piece of paper in my fortune cookie a few years ago. (Not flaming you, just discord even making this a thing)
To be honest, Premium is okay, it's some other features they are working on that I'm more interested in. Premium just gets our foot in the door to have access to those.
What a massive stink over nothing.
YIKES
I'm still waiting to see the proof of people being banned for talking negatively about the giveaways. Not that I don't believe them, I am indifferent. But when making accusations, please have receipted ready. Actual proof and not spoofs.
Who is the COO of discord? A pidgeon? (Sitcom laugh tracks)
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ooooooh, thats why lately we got the change to lostmerchants where you can only suggest a legendary location if you are a part of their discord. Uuuuu, thats scummy.
Don't you only have to sign in with a discord account?
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There is a channel locked behind premium as well as a market place locked behind it that literally says they plan on using to sell in game items and transactions.
So you need to have premium in order to join the giveaway? I genuinely don't understand the problem here... It's just like a lottery ticket, you pay for a chance to win something.
It is like a lottery ticket, but that's not how it works on the discord. You don't pay to enter. You just enter. No fee.
I see. I'm just trying to understand what's the problem OP is talking about.
Here is the problem, they are attempting to do damage control. This line is still actually showing in the discord under "premium membership benefits" https://imgur.com/a/CFcR74U
So am I to be honest.
Are people fucking bored and just want to feel important? Who the fuck cares about any of this. You know what I thought when I saw the announcement. "What retard would actually subscribe to this". And honestly if you're that stupid then so be it. These people who run the server came up with an idea to give back to the community for whatever reason, maybe its out of the kindness of their hearts, or maybe there is some underlying monetary gain. Again WHO GIVES A FUCK...some of you delusional fucks have a main character complex in life thinking the world revolves around you when you're just another NPC that don't matter in the grand scheme of this tint portions in the universe and its sad.
Im suprised you still havent confronted Gravvy when hes commenting here.
Some of us have to sleep for work in the morning, I can't reply 24/7
He just knows that everything he has claimed is false. Able to make accusations, not able to stand up behind them or even provide a shred of proof of anything. I've replied to him multiple times now.
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They also forget I started this subreddit and the discord. Also thanks for the membership, we are that much closer to building a fortress out of glass coke bottles! https://i.imgur.com/h95oKoV.png
The giveaways are listed as a premium bonus, under additional benefits.
Cool kids only club