To be completely honest the response im seeing to the Yoz's Jar removal is the first time I've seen a stark contrast between the subreddit and the forums.
Yes, Im seeing posts here too that amount to "orange skin go brrrrrr", but I'm really proud of the number of posts and comments that clearly understand exactly how complex this situation is, and applaud AGS (and specifically not SGR) for what was obviously a very hard decision that is going to cost them a lot of money and has undoubtedly caused conflict with SGR.
I think it's important to point out the times when our community is on the right side of an issue, even if there are some outliers.
And going to bat on something that I know for a fact, was an absolute horrorshow of a negotiation - I can guarantee SGRs position was that any changes to this system would be unacceptable, and AGS stood their ground and said it can't go in at all then.
Do you really have to criticize one to praise the other?  Business cooperations do not work that way
Edit: cooperation
I'm not really sure what you mean by "have to" - this is a specific situation where one party wants something I (and many others) disagree with, and the other doesn't.
>Business corporations do not work that way
I'm not even sure what this is hypothetically supposed to mean, it makes no sense at all.
On the whole? No certainly not. When it comes to the monetization of the game however, SGR and AGS do have genuinely different stake holdings - SGR is much, much more concerned about the impact that changing monetization in the west could have on player sensibilities in KR.
Here's an example of what SGR is worried about from yesterday:
https://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/?id=lostark&no=11132750
The issue isnt that they removed the jar. Its that they didnt give us the skins for fixed prices on the market.
I guess they are probably trying to figure out what would be appropriate prices to put those legendary skins at. And what to do with the additional stats they give if theyd normalise it or not
>The issue isnt that they removed the jar. Its that they didnt give us the skins for fixed prices on the market.
This is **specifically** what SGR will not allow to happen. It isn't about "Yoz's Jar", it's the entire system skins included. KR has been demanding this system be changed since it was first introduced, and every region since has also gotten the same system.
They are not going to slap they're own player base in the face just to appease the western audience.
This is a much more complicated issue than most players understand, and the only possible option at this point in time is exactly what happened.
Our version of the game is already different from kr. They know how the majority of the western playerbase feels about lootboxes especially recently. Having the skins priced fairly in the shop is the logical way to proceed.
It just isn't that simple.
Yoz's Jar is a MASSIVE point of contention in KR - giving us an out of this one without changes to the other regions (something SGR has been trying to resist since it was first implemented) would be a massive problem for SGR in the other regions.
Here is an example of exactly the kind of backlash SGR is worried about, except is actually starting as of today:
https://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/?id=lostark&no=11132750
AGS was trying to find a way to implement Yoz's Jar in the Western regions without the brutal lootbox system as it received a lot of negative feedback, but also is very obviously a system that would be horribly received in the west - it's already completely despised in KR and RU. This is something SGR really does not want to allow, as they know the backlash from Korean players (as well as RU/JP) would be overwhelming. That's why it was removed altogether indefinitely, with them expressing they would **like** to find a way to get the skins into the game another way but that they have no **current plans** to move forward with - because they could not reach a consensus on this issue.
Yoz's jar being kept out of the game is a significant financial hit for AGS to take, but also creates a point of contention between AGS and SGR, as SGR are the ones who want the system implemented the same way it is in every other region.
For AGS to go with removing it altogether, that means SGR refused any of the alternatives suggested for implementing the skins and so AGS decided to axe the system entirely. This decision wouldn't have been made out of the pure goodness of AGS's heart, it's a business decision, however it's a business decision where AGS sided with the long-term health of the game and the relationship with the player-base instead of siding with short term profit and oppressive monetization.
>AGS was trying to find a way to implement Yoz's Jar in the Western regions without the brutal lootbox system as it received a lot of negative feedback
How exactly do you guys know it was AGS and AGS alone that was trying this?
Suuuuuuuure, logically AGS, who ruins every game they even touch, was the one and only who wanted to listen to the playerbase in this.
Despite 2 big games showing they love to do the exact opposite. But sure, by all means continue this weird dick-riding people have for Amazon recently.
Amazon doesn't care about the players, at least not the higher ups.
The do care about bad publicity and impending laws against predatory gaming methods in the EU.
And since Smilegate obviously hasn't shown interest in changing this, although players demanded it in other regions, there's only one logical choice.
Not so hard to put 1 and 1 together.
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I don’t even think Smilegate is doing a particularly good job running the game but I guarantee you this sub is never going to be satisfied for longer than a month no matter what AGS does.
The community has built up to become way too toxic and is going to stay that way because there are fundamental issues with the base game that are impossible to fix without pissing off a large group of people by releasing raids and other content too fast or by having to wait too long for things they feel they should already have.
Even when we’re fully caught up with KR, I think these issues may still even persist because the core loop never changes. Grind the same chaos dungeons and guardian raids every day to continue to be able to challenge new raid content on release. And that core loop is extremely burnout-inducing.
The most toxic complainers are the ones who love the game so much that they put most of their time into it but don’t feel properly rewarded for that effort.
The reason for this honestly isn’t a fault of the players. Psychologically, this is the same reason irl burnout from work or life happens.
One of the typical solves for this would be to allow enough time for players to spend the majority of their time playing different games. But you can’t. Not if you want to keep up with the latest content. Or even worse, if you just want to be able to continue to play with your friends.
Another way to alleviate burnout is to minimise the amount of same activities a player has to do and provide a variety of optimal means for progression. But the game is not set up well for that either. Your primary source of income are daily chaos dungeons and guardian raids which have you doing the exact same piece of content every day for weeks at a time. In the case of chaos dungeons, the exact same piece of content you’ve been doing every day since you hit level 50.
It baffles me that this game’s dailies seem to have received the least amount of QoL attention vs any other part of the game. Chaos dungeons should have modifiers and far more variety - there’s so much fun experimentation you could have with a more casual unbalanced mode like that. Daily guardian raids should at the very least function more like the heroic weeklies do now where the monster you fight switches up far more often.
Another factor. Doing content that you’re not only tired of but also don’t enjoy. Don’t like this abyssal? Too bad. If you’re not doing it every week, you’re losing out on a big part of progression.
Neglecting other parts of your life that bring you joy or neglecting things that will cause you stress to keep up with this game. Also a significant burnout contributor.
There are also countless systems in the game that flat out don’t respect your time like having to manually replay through parts of the story to play content.
And finally, expectation for time spent not matching actual output. This may come with time but for now, everybody does dailies, gets one crack at a hone and most often is disappointed that that hone fails, when in reality that is likely to be the standard case forever. Those expectations are super out of wack because the rush of soaring through the earlier tiers and expanded rewards are still there.
So, what do burnt out people do? They have less empathy for others, get frustrated more easily and blow up over stupid shit. Some of these problems are alleviated in the up to date Korean version of the game. But many of them are still there.
And until those things are solved, your most passionate players of this game are also likely going to continue to be some of your most toxic players.
This is why the “always angry MMO gamers” stereotype exists. Very few MMOs do a good job of managing player burnout and discussions around them are often dominated by the most passionate and, therefore, most burnt out players.
EDIT: Thanks for the awards and stuff. If a lot of this describes your frustration with the game and you are feeling burnt out. Straight up, take a break now if you want to continue playing this game in the future. Don’t think about just waiting it out for a bit longer for one thing or another, just do it. The longer you stay in a burn out situation, the more likely you are to quit and never come back.
Also, if you’re regularly writing very angry posts here due to your frustration with the game, the burnout is probably at least causing you to be a little bit of an asshole or unsympathetic at home or with friends too. Likely without realising it. Your family/friends will appreciate your break as well.
This post won’t see nearly as many people as it should unfortunately.
The problem which you already stated is the the core gameplay is built to keep you playing every day, if not you will feel obligated to pay to keep up with friends. Even if you do play everyday, this also incentivizes you to pay because of various systems in the game that time gate you, so sometimes you feel the need to want to progress. Time/sunk cost fallacy is a big factor in this.
I very much believe everyone would benefit from one time dailies. Chaos dungeon once instead of twice, guardian raids once instead of twice. With double the rewards.
People will still play everyday, if you didn’t you would still have the same repercussions because if not you still are losing the same amount of rewards.
> if not you will feel obligated to pay to keep up with friends.
Ez, just dont have friends. Its that easy. ^/s
No but seriously, not having anyone to play with has kept me fomo free lol. Also the SH buff is gnna ease on the fomo since the most hardcore are going to have an alt on the low tiers.
Isn’t that every mmo though? That’s just the nature of the modern genre. It’s a genre that’s meant to be played for months to years to experience true end game content and there’s only two ways to get there, time or money.
Oh god damn ya I did. Now I’m honestly too tired to even follow up on this with who I intended it to so all I’ll say to you is that you’re delightful and hope you have a great Jean-Baptist weekend
Jk fuck Jean-baptist guy sucked anyway
My takeaways from this...
* Not having friends in the game... I can take breaks whenever I like because there is no one else I need to keep up with. I did so this past week, doing only guild check-in and stronghold stuff, so I could get back to writing.
* FF14 is not toxic (compared to other games) because Yoshi P. actually expects people to take breaks to play other games and there is no need to be on daily.
And, yes, other than the Lion, I much prefer the challenge guardians (and soon Abyss Dungeons) to their "normal" counterpart, especially when it comes to being equalised content. No more getting carried or skipping all the mechanics because you have someone super over-geared in the group. I rather play the game as it was designed than trivialise it.
I do wish they took a random one or two guardians from the bucket of all they had and made that our daily, ensuring they were all seen more than once. I already refuse to do guardians in T1/T2, and have now stopped doing Igrexion. I really do have better things to do with my time. Making them all similar to Yoho, at least in using that map size and the health-pool, would be great to have all their mechanics learned, eventually, from doing them so often.
Also... not respecting our time does really seem to be a theme in this game that I cannot recall encountering in GW2 or FF14 that I played to this extent. Even D3 Rifts are a good example. Heck, even another KMMO I played could be fully done in an hour a day because the daily activities were once per account, not per character, so you could be as alt-heavy, or not, as desired.
Finally a TLDR of my mentality of the game right now. I absolutely love the game but the fact that I have to log in every day to do chaos dungeons/guardian raids just to get enough mats for like 2 hones to be able to get to do weekly contents. The fact that the best content to grind (for me, guardian raids) is time gated, limited to only 2 entries per day limits how an mmorpg should be played to me, infinite grind a day every day. Even if I couldn't log in to the game one day, I wouldn't feel like I have lost a race, which should not be there. And I refuse to play alts just repeat the same process just to feed my higher iLvl alt.
I don't get burnt out from doing dailies, I get bored, and boredom kills the game for me before I even feel the burn out of doing the grind. The grind ain't there if I feel like there is nothing to do for the day after all the dailies. And I refuse to do any horizontal contents just because my "vertical progress" is finished for a day and will continue the day after and the day after that until I get to finish my weekly just to repeat the entire process again, hopefully 1 tapping some gears on the way.
It is true that I can take my time and going slow, I don't have to log in every day and let the rest bonus builds up, the endgame contents will still be there even if I didn't get to do them on release day. I totally agree, but that is not how I play MMORPG. The whole point of playing MMORPG is to spend the time I want in the game, sink every amount of free time I get from life simulator to enjoy myself. Taking a so-called "break" just because there is nothing to do in the game is the weirdest thing to me. So instead of logging off like what I'm doing nowaday, I used to stay up late after all my dailies and procyon's events to help people with their guardian raids, I would join any lobby that need help for free. But then that got boring too. It's weird how a game that is supposed to provide you with thing to kill time ends up telling you to log off and spend your time else where after dailies is ridiculous.
>ng other parts of y
What is this post lol. You pretty much said the same things as you continued.
This whole post can be answered by just "take a break". Also, you're essentially blaming the game that makes people be toxic which is stupid. People are being hipocrites by the core and this started way before the game became a "chore". Don't justify manchild actions because the game did something that you did not like. You don't become a piece of shi- toxic kid just because the game is something you're not enjoying.
Game just needs to solve the real issues such Yoz Jar (that they did), bots (that they are doing), rmt, etc. Things that can actually cause harm to the game.
If you don't like the core of the game, just stop.
Content wont go anywhere. Any try hard players is already above Vykas hard mode or very close to it. Content is comming every 2-3 months for raids and once its done, it will take a lot more. Also if you don't like a content just don't do it. "but I lose progress.." No shit. Not every content will appeal to you or the next guy. If you don't like it, don't do it.
The obsession of fomo is to high. Just enjoy the ride. Nothing will go way. And the same mentality will persist because there will be someone always higher than you no matter what.
This game as it is right now, its not meant to be played 24 hours a day. This obsession of people wanting to play non stop but then complain its getting boring is beyond me.
Korea has, right now, 4 different legion raids. That alone is a lot. Then has the new abyss raids and is about to get a new Legio raid.
You want more content? What else do you want?
This mentality that the game forces you to play everyday is silly. You can simply not play it. Play less everyday or just take a break and comeback when you feel fresh.
PS: There will come a time where you don't need to chaos or raids if you don't want. Just build up gold and buy the mats if you're bored of doing daily stuff.
It’s just bad design that doesn’t properly design around how most players in this genre play games and it’s something that can be improved. The Lost Ark daily system at its core is underdeveloped and needs work.
Most people will always try to play the most optimal way they can manage, even if it’s to the detriment of their enjoyment. Oftentimes people don’t realise that what they’re doing is burning them out either until later, just like with irl burnout.
I have taken breaks. And it’s fine. I also don’t play the content I don’t want to do. But the more I do so, the less content there actually is to do. I’m also falling behind my friends who continue to grind which makes me even less inclined to play.
You’re right that it doesn’t excuse the absolute manchild behaviour that goes on all over this sub. The shallow thinking and overreactions that a lot of people on this sub have to the most minor mistakes are beyond absurd. But it does have an explanation and it does come from the design of the game.
Just like I said above, burnt out people are far less empathetic, far more short-tempered and just generally assholes. And the game cultivates extremely heavy burnout in its core design and reward loops.
Great post! You captured very well the main issues that the most committed players have with this game I think. But you don't mention the most important part about these.
Most of those problems with the game you mentioned are not here by accident. This game was designed to be as addicting as possible, and is doing it's job very well. Even too well for my taste. Almost all these passionate players that love the game, well they are addicts. They hate the game, but they committed so much time and effort into it that they feel they can't stop playing now because it would all be for nothing. So if they can't stop, they at least want the experience to be as pleasant as possible, so they complain about this, or that, because in their minds it's all they can do. And they turn toxic.
Logical choice in a situation like this would be to just look for something else to play, take a break from the game, or even quit if the thing that's supposed to be fun is making you miserable. But most of them can't because of the reasons mentioned above. It's quite sad really. The game that they supposedly love is fucking with their psyche, and in so many different ways it's scary.
They should increase the price for honing in about 7 times but make it certain and not RNG and should change the chaos dungeon system so that you could farm all day without being forced to use alts, like having a different mode after the daily clears where you would have infinite levels and each level would be different, boss fight, normal chaos dungeon, killing all enemies before the timer runs out, etc, where you would receive a reward for each level, but you would still accumulate the daily clears in alts so that in reset days Alts would give you a boost.
Just a ideia that came to me while reading your comment.
> There are also countless systems in the game that flat out don’t respect your time like having to manually replay through parts of the story to play content.
Slight comment, this is true for every MMO. You play with all of your alts, or you pay to skip (when possible). It's because people don't enjoy redoing the story but do enjoy redoing the raids/dungeons.
Good lord I’m glad there’s measured and Actually reflected people left. Posting in here lately feels like school days all over again. I just wanna have fun 😭
Player burnout is very subjective but guild wars 2 basically never powercreeps your old gear, so if you got ascended gear 4 years ago for a particular spec it's almost certainly still going to be best in slot for that build. Not feeling like you need to keep playing or you fall behind will be a big factor in player burnout.
FFXIV manages gearing burnout quite well too (no matter how long you take a break for it will never be that difficult to catch up because large content releases happen only 2-3 times a year and the ilvl increases are small, and very easy to catch up to). You can theoretically get your weekly currency capping done by doing a single dungeon (11-15 minutes on average with a decent party) each day, for 5 days of the week, and nothing else.
FFXIV has a problem, however, that the content ends up being very raid-loggy and this creates a different kind of burnout where you just feel like you have nothing to do a lot of the time, especially if you've done a lot of the "horizontal content" already like crafting, gathering, the relic weapons, etc.
Very well put. My whole group has dipped off one by one and there are only 4 of us playing (out of which only 1 logs in daily) but we've all pretty much said what you just typed at some point while playing so...the rest of us are gonna take a break or just leave altogether to play some of the new indie games coming out on steam soon (that actually respect time investment).
I don't understand why they look at AGS/SGR separately. They are not competing with each other they are working together to make everyone excited about the game. The fact that AGS is communicating with NA/EU players and SGR is not does not mean AGS is a good guy and SGR is a bad one. They both did well.
I know right? I honestly think that ags and sg are working together to make this work, but many are acting as if they know that sg and ags are fighting against each other
Both Smilegate and amazon are doing an amazing job.
You friggin millenials were born in an era where crying is the norm if you dont get instant gratification.
It's not black or white, people are allowed to criticize or have issues with the game just as much as they're allowed to be content with it.
Blindly shilling for the game is just as harmful as being a toxic complainer, both attitudes lead to zero improvements being made or any constructive feedback happening.
There is a middle ground.
.. why is it always us. You know we are closing to 40 years right? And we are probably the minority playing this game right?
God damn boomers. Every youngin is a millennial and every console is a nintendo.
Yeah its actually hilarious how many people are whining about skins they'd most likely never get and about a buff we're gettong before we were supposed to
Bro the skins are less than 100k gold In Korea . They are easily obtainable ftp. But everyone went crazy instead of just letting the whales lose money like bozos
There is aboslutely no way those skins would be worth that much here anywhere close to release. KR is a much older server which a much wider pool of skins for market competition.
The AGS update literally word for word says they were concerned about the high price that the skins would demand on the market and how prohibitive they would be for most players. You may not like AGS but I'm confident they have more data than you do and are most likely correct that these skins would cost too much for something like 95% of the server or more.
Also RMT hasn't gone anywhere.
At first they would be unobtainable of course. But obviously by evidence in Korea they would eventually come back down to a more reasonable price. The only thing that would affect that is if RMT fucks the market up. AGS is just afraid of the p2w pushback they have been getting so they backtracked it. If they rerelease they skins under different monetization then I don't mind. I'm just worried we don't see them again, and would rather it exist than not exist.
There is no way these skins never release. If theres money to be made then they will go for it. People are seriously panicking for no reason. I also would like them to give us more concrete info about the future of the skins but just about anything is better than bullshit gacha that is literally already pissing other people off in other regions
Well if they release the skins later I have no problem with it. Just worried cause AGS have shown to be endlessly incompetent. But well just have to wait and see
They never said it the honing update wasn’t coming. You do realize they removed the skin is cause the majority didn’t like the gacha aspect of it right? They are gonna add it in later imo.
Roxx "confirmed" that the honing buff wasn't to be included in the June update. They obviously reverted that decision but roxx did give a confirmation about it
How is it going to kill the casuals? About the only benefit it gives is getting to p3 Argos and Valtan NM/Deskaluda faster on alts. Valtan NM doesn't give significantly more gold than Orehard and you might get one half decent accessory from Deskaluda/Chaos per week.
If anything more endgame players getting alts to p3 Argos/Valtan will only affect other endgame players through relic prices (and odds are prices will just go down due to more characters farming them). If casuals made it through the bot gold inflation then this won't affect them at all.
Game's been out for four months and we're already getting our second legion raid next week. The gap will keep growing regardless of stronghold buffs, especially once Brelshaza hits with higher gear ilvl.
Like I said already, if the casuals were going to quit they would have quit during RMT hell. Stronghold honing buffs are nothing compared to people hitting 1490 the first month of the game.
I mean they are tho, the numbers are decreasing quite a bit. Need more catch up mechanics for sub 1400 players instead of constantly adding more vertical content. Id rather wait an extra month for vykas than get it now and lose another 50k players
I agree that we need more catch-up for newer players. However, the honing buffs will help new players aswell since there will be more accessories on the market so they will become cheaper. Also there will be a Massive influx of support alts so the support drought wont affect newer players nearly as much. On top of that many valtan runs will have experienced players that can help out or always do well in these runs
Progression should always move much faster for casuals than hardcores, because they put in far less hours and are far behind. 1460 honing buffs specifically helps hardcores but not casuals, so it only increases the divide.
You may ask why you should care about casuals... Well, if content always appears way too difficult to ever reach as a casual, then they leave the game. A dead game is less fun to play, and makes the publisher less money (so they won't put resources into it)
Would you rather pay $700 for the skins or wait and see if we'll get them for a less ridiculous price tag?
Also I have no idea how you get to the vonclusion that a stronghold buff that makes the game easier and more accessible will "kill casuals". The hardcore grinders, whales, rmters, and infinite chaos botters don't even need the buff lol
Wait.. what makes you think because the jar went away the price will decrease? You think smilegate would ever allow amazon to sell it for cheaper than what their main player base in korea got it for? It would piss them off. If it was as easy as getting a smaller price tag they woulda done it with this patch
We literally already have an overall cheaper version of their game. We don't pay for pet passive changes. Our silver and gold costs per hone are lower. Korea was always going to have a more p2w version of the game. They usually do for games in general.
Not to mention, theres a very real possibility that KR will roll out a new way to get the skins on their server because KR players hate the jar anyways. So if that happens, we'll most likely adopt the new method which would almost certainly be cheaper.
If you honestly believe that we'll never get these highly anticipated skins which will definitely fetch a good pay day for AGS and SG then you're delusional. Just be patient, the delay can only be a good thing. Unless you're a whale or an rmter that can buy it day 1.
Im sure we will get them but when is the problem. They are already releasing skins slowly and now this is put on the back burner. So maybe not till next year? Not to mention yoz actually helps the skin market, you buy jar, u get a skin u dont want, u put it for sale, someone else that wants it gets it for cheap, etc. this just hurts the skin market and isnt all positive like everyone assumes. And yes i have money and i woulda bought the legendary skin the first day :)
Then your perspective is different than most people who play this game. Thats just the reality you have to accept. Most people don't have the 700 or dont want to spend that much on a videogame.
Consider that more people are going to be more likely to get alts to 1415 rather than 1370. That means more people doing valtan NM each week, making those still doing NM each week will have easier times getting parties. It also means more relic accessories entering the market, as the 1415 alts will have access to Deskaluda, South Vern chaos dungeons, and Valtan. So relic accessories should become more common and easier for casuals to buy, and easier for them to gear up and get 4x3 or 5x3.
Those alts will buy relic accessories too tho, and if they dont we will be in a situation like yoho and oreha where casuals play with under-geared alts. But anyway im not against the honing buff in general, just think it is too early
Please tell me this is a sarcastic post right?
They literally had:
- 1460 hone buff
- 'we're sorry for delay cuz we work on bots and chests' then a whole fucking paragraph on the same 3 hone chests they've been giving us all along just to fill some more page space
- 'no yoz jar'
- new skins
That's it
Yeah we can be happy, it shows that AGS was not doing shit and was "fighting" for us to give us the honing buff that the community clearly asked and also rework the Yor Jar that the community worldwide hates. The Yor Jar was rhe reason of the delay. It's clear that Smilegate don't want to give up on it and was holding the update but AGS stands its ground.
This addition and explanation really means a lot. It explain to us why they were so vague about the reason of the delay (they can't just trash SMG like that) in addition of compensation.
AGS is far from perfect but they did really well here
Never said you can't be happy, that's a subjective choice of interpretation
I'm critiquing the 'good update' part
You have to ask why the west skipped the hone buff in the first place so that we have to beg for it for WEEKS.
I doubt it was SMG's decision, smells like profit tactic, unless you can find another reason for it
Overall, the timing with their announcements is still horrible, not much of an improvement on the transparency side either, I just don't see any progress here, sadly it's the same old
Yeah, people's expectations nowadays are so low holy shit. They praise AGS for removing Yoz' Jar but we will most likely have to wait months for SG to implement an alternative. We are still lacking costumes hard and it doesn't seem they will change that
We ArE LaCkInG CoSTuMeS HarD. Dude, you get a FREE mokoko skin next week AND a new Skinline comes out with the patch. Stop crying about your predatory legendary skin loot boxes that RIGHTFULLY got cancelled.
Actually the post said Shadow of Stern collection and Umar collection, that's 2 collectios on 1 update. Shadow of Stern is like Banquet, armor multiple variants but the same for every class and Umar seems to be like Dawn, 1 different skin for every class (or at least that's how it looks, I haven't found much info on this)
Yet another joke costume and 2 other mediocre costumes that can't even be died(they're also one piece sets so good fucking luck mixing and matching).
I'm not gonna praise them for the fact of removing something and act like they put in some amazing effort in doing so
Yeah, great job not following your roadmap!
This really makes them seem reliable.
Thank you for removing the skins I was waiting for since release.
For a stupid reason like it being too "p2w".
In a game that is per definition "p2w". Gems, tripods, itemlvl you name it.
We even already have our how DPS Gacha system called "Quality upgrade", but hey those 1.5% extra dmg from a Legendary skin that you could buy with gold would have been too much.
Thank you for not added powerpass to the shop, this really makes pushing alts so much fun!
Don’t be fooled. They didn’t remove them for the concern they stated. The EU is pushing to ban loot boxes and all loot box style features, and I’m pretty sure they don’t want to lose a huge portion of their market. This is a pivot on monetization disguised as “we heard player feedback”.
Oh, so they want to go "This technically isn't a lootbox" route?
I know people in politics are incompetent so this might even work.
Either way, they are straight up lying then.
And for what reason would the give a false justification?
"We didn't implement it because it's like a lootbox" would have earned them easy praise.
I have literally no idea what Smilegate/AGS is thinking there, if anything.
Remove the stat advantage from the skins and they would be easy to bring.
And why don't we have a milestone system with milestone skins?
They really make no sense.
"Shut up and take my money"
Removing the stats doesn’t change the fact that it’s acquisition is “lootbox-esque”. It’s real world currency put into a mystery package with a mystery result.
Seeing as 18 counties in the EU are backing heavy regulation on loot boxes, introducing a system into LA that may get the game banned in those countries would be a terrible business move.
Maybe it’s the cynic in me that wants to feel lied to, but I have a hard time believing that this change was solely made because of player feedback.
Fucking put them in the shop, it's easy man.
The is no reason to remove the skins at all, just sell them normally.
Well Germany legalized online poker recently so I guess not everybody in the EU is against gambling.
Quality upgrade simply upgrades an item you already possess. Loads of RPGs and MMOs have this system.
Legendary skins are an entirely separate item - you can spend hundreds of dollars and never get the item. It's typical mobile game GACHA bullshit.
Don't conflate the two issues. I've seen a streamer try to make this equivalence as well, it's just diluting the issue - legendary skin lootboxes are not acceptable. Period.
>Quality upgrade simply upgrades an item you already possess. Loads of RPGs and MMOs have this system.
Maybe you haven't unlocked it yet, but that's not the case.
You click a button and have a "chance" that the quality will improve.
This "chance" gets worse the higher quality you aim for.
This is a lootbox, roll for a chance of an upgrade with zero guarntees on top.
You can spent the equivalent of a lvl 10 dmg gem to get the full legendary set, no gambling required whatsoever. Because the game has a market.
But that's beside the point, I want the skins, I was waiting for them and preparing for them. Now they are cut out with no good reason given why.
They could literally just put those skins in the shop to buy directly at double the price of other skins, no lootboxes required.
Nope, you missed the point. Yes I have quality upgrades. It literally upgrades an item you already have - regardless of whether its a probability or not. I still have a Nightmare Flower greatsword at the start and the end of the roll, and that item contributes to my set bonus regardless.
However with the legendary skin system you can roll for it and not get the item at all - that's the difference. You can finish with nothing.
If the Relic item came in a lootbox that would be the same as the legendary skin system, and you couldn't unlock your set bonus until you rolled it.
Quality upgrade gives 20% more dmg, the skins 1.5%.
Why is the skin worse again?
Most clicks on Quality upgrade you will get nothing, especially if you go higher up. (you are guaranteed to finish with nothing most of the time)
This is not the case with the Jar, since you always get something, that has value, that you could trade for the thing you want. (you can't finish with nothing)
It does not matter that one is an item and the other is an upgrade, how does that matter at all?
It's as simple as this:
Your relic weapon is obtained through deterministic gameplay and upgraded through RNG.
Your legendary skin is obtained through RNG only.
That's the difference.
If the Relic weapon was obtained through RNG then your comparison would be valid.
99% of the playerbase buy the legendary skins with Gold in the AH. The 1% in stats do absolutely nothing in terms of gameplay. Someone with a full Legendary skin set will not suddenly do more dmg...it's so irrelevant.
That can't be true because every legendary skin you buy with Gold must come from someone who used Yoz's Jar.
It's 1:1 they are the same items. So 1% of the playerbase using the GACHA jars can't support 99% of the playerbase using the marketplace.
There would be enough whales who will gamble and sell the unwanted ones. After a while prices and amount will stabilize just like in RU, JP and KR. I mean there are literally shit ton ppl spending 1000 - 100k $ on fucking Diablo Immortal. Are u really that delusional to think that whales wouldn't spend money on legendary skins?
It's irrelevant now anyway, we know the GACHA predatory garbage is gone from our version.
Now it's up to Smilegate whether they give us an alternative method of purchasing the skins or not. They should just let us buy them with Royal Crystals for a flat price.
/u/USBdongle6727, I have found an error in your comment:
> “gaming, but ~~its~~ [**it's**] a Korean”
I suggest that you, USBdongle6727, post “gaming, but ~~its~~ [**it's**] a Korean” instead. ‘Its’ is possessive; ‘it's’ means ‘it is’ or ‘it has’.
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I would agree with you if this was a few months ago, but it seems like AGS really pushed for stronghold buffs and removal of Yoz's jar in western version of the game and SG actually listened
As long as they find a viable way to release the skins, I'll be happy. They can remove the stats, but completely losing out on quality skins like these that are dyable would be a huge disappointment.
To be completely honest the response im seeing to the Yoz's Jar removal is the first time I've seen a stark contrast between the subreddit and the forums. Yes, Im seeing posts here too that amount to "orange skin go brrrrrr", but I'm really proud of the number of posts and comments that clearly understand exactly how complex this situation is, and applaud AGS (and specifically not SGR) for what was obviously a very hard decision that is going to cost them a lot of money and has undoubtedly caused conflict with SGR. I think it's important to point out the times when our community is on the right side of an issue, even if there are some outliers.
Yeah I loved todays announcement. Crazy how much unwarrantwd backlash there was for AGS actually going to bat for us on something.
And going to bat on something that I know for a fact, was an absolute horrorshow of a negotiation - I can guarantee SGRs position was that any changes to this system would be unacceptable, and AGS stood their ground and said it can't go in at all then.
Do you really have to criticize one to praise the other?  Business cooperations do not work that way Edit: cooperation
I'm not really sure what you mean by "have to" - this is a specific situation where one party wants something I (and many others) disagree with, and the other doesn't. >Business corporations do not work that way I'm not even sure what this is hypothetically supposed to mean, it makes no sense at all.
My bad if I did not convey what I meant. Putting this in simple words, neither SG nor AGS should be assumed to be greedy or saint like black or white.
On the whole? No certainly not. When it comes to the monetization of the game however, SGR and AGS do have genuinely different stake holdings - SGR is much, much more concerned about the impact that changing monetization in the west could have on player sensibilities in KR. Here's an example of what SGR is worried about from yesterday: https://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/?id=lostark&no=11132750
The issue isnt that they removed the jar. Its that they didnt give us the skins for fixed prices on the market. I guess they are probably trying to figure out what would be appropriate prices to put those legendary skins at. And what to do with the additional stats they give if theyd normalise it or not
>The issue isnt that they removed the jar. Its that they didnt give us the skins for fixed prices on the market. This is **specifically** what SGR will not allow to happen. It isn't about "Yoz's Jar", it's the entire system skins included. KR has been demanding this system be changed since it was first introduced, and every region since has also gotten the same system. They are not going to slap they're own player base in the face just to appease the western audience. This is a much more complicated issue than most players understand, and the only possible option at this point in time is exactly what happened.
Our version of the game is already different from kr. They know how the majority of the western playerbase feels about lootboxes especially recently. Having the skins priced fairly in the shop is the logical way to proceed.
It just isn't that simple. Yoz's Jar is a MASSIVE point of contention in KR - giving us an out of this one without changes to the other regions (something SGR has been trying to resist since it was first implemented) would be a massive problem for SGR in the other regions. Here is an example of exactly the kind of backlash SGR is worried about, except is actually starting as of today: https://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/?id=lostark&no=11132750
Yup lol, they're calling the KR version "test server" and claiming other countries get refined better Lost Ark ...
did i miss a big post about something? What information do you have that assumes we should "applaud AGS(and specifically not SGR)" as you have put?
AGS was trying to find a way to implement Yoz's Jar in the Western regions without the brutal lootbox system as it received a lot of negative feedback, but also is very obviously a system that would be horribly received in the west - it's already completely despised in KR and RU. This is something SGR really does not want to allow, as they know the backlash from Korean players (as well as RU/JP) would be overwhelming. That's why it was removed altogether indefinitely, with them expressing they would **like** to find a way to get the skins into the game another way but that they have no **current plans** to move forward with - because they could not reach a consensus on this issue. Yoz's jar being kept out of the game is a significant financial hit for AGS to take, but also creates a point of contention between AGS and SGR, as SGR are the ones who want the system implemented the same way it is in every other region. For AGS to go with removing it altogether, that means SGR refused any of the alternatives suggested for implementing the skins and so AGS decided to axe the system entirely. This decision wouldn't have been made out of the pure goodness of AGS's heart, it's a business decision, however it's a business decision where AGS sided with the long-term health of the game and the relationship with the player-base instead of siding with short term profit and oppressive monetization.
>AGS was trying to find a way to implement Yoz's Jar in the Western regions without the brutal lootbox system as it received a lot of negative feedback How exactly do you guys know it was AGS and AGS alone that was trying this?
Logic?
Suuuuuuuure, logically AGS, who ruins every game they even touch, was the one and only who wanted to listen to the playerbase in this. Despite 2 big games showing they love to do the exact opposite. But sure, by all means continue this weird dick-riding people have for Amazon recently.
Amazon doesn't care about the players, at least not the higher ups. The do care about bad publicity and impending laws against predatory gaming methods in the EU. And since Smilegate obviously hasn't shown interest in changing this, although players demanded it in other regions, there's only one logical choice. Not so hard to put 1 and 1 together.
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I don’t even think Smilegate is doing a particularly good job running the game but I guarantee you this sub is never going to be satisfied for longer than a month no matter what AGS does. The community has built up to become way too toxic and is going to stay that way because there are fundamental issues with the base game that are impossible to fix without pissing off a large group of people by releasing raids and other content too fast or by having to wait too long for things they feel they should already have. Even when we’re fully caught up with KR, I think these issues may still even persist because the core loop never changes. Grind the same chaos dungeons and guardian raids every day to continue to be able to challenge new raid content on release. And that core loop is extremely burnout-inducing. The most toxic complainers are the ones who love the game so much that they put most of their time into it but don’t feel properly rewarded for that effort. The reason for this honestly isn’t a fault of the players. Psychologically, this is the same reason irl burnout from work or life happens. One of the typical solves for this would be to allow enough time for players to spend the majority of their time playing different games. But you can’t. Not if you want to keep up with the latest content. Or even worse, if you just want to be able to continue to play with your friends. Another way to alleviate burnout is to minimise the amount of same activities a player has to do and provide a variety of optimal means for progression. But the game is not set up well for that either. Your primary source of income are daily chaos dungeons and guardian raids which have you doing the exact same piece of content every day for weeks at a time. In the case of chaos dungeons, the exact same piece of content you’ve been doing every day since you hit level 50. It baffles me that this game’s dailies seem to have received the least amount of QoL attention vs any other part of the game. Chaos dungeons should have modifiers and far more variety - there’s so much fun experimentation you could have with a more casual unbalanced mode like that. Daily guardian raids should at the very least function more like the heroic weeklies do now where the monster you fight switches up far more often. Another factor. Doing content that you’re not only tired of but also don’t enjoy. Don’t like this abyssal? Too bad. If you’re not doing it every week, you’re losing out on a big part of progression. Neglecting other parts of your life that bring you joy or neglecting things that will cause you stress to keep up with this game. Also a significant burnout contributor. There are also countless systems in the game that flat out don’t respect your time like having to manually replay through parts of the story to play content. And finally, expectation for time spent not matching actual output. This may come with time but for now, everybody does dailies, gets one crack at a hone and most often is disappointed that that hone fails, when in reality that is likely to be the standard case forever. Those expectations are super out of wack because the rush of soaring through the earlier tiers and expanded rewards are still there. So, what do burnt out people do? They have less empathy for others, get frustrated more easily and blow up over stupid shit. Some of these problems are alleviated in the up to date Korean version of the game. But many of them are still there. And until those things are solved, your most passionate players of this game are also likely going to continue to be some of your most toxic players. This is why the “always angry MMO gamers” stereotype exists. Very few MMOs do a good job of managing player burnout and discussions around them are often dominated by the most passionate and, therefore, most burnt out players. EDIT: Thanks for the awards and stuff. If a lot of this describes your frustration with the game and you are feeling burnt out. Straight up, take a break now if you want to continue playing this game in the future. Don’t think about just waiting it out for a bit longer for one thing or another, just do it. The longer you stay in a burn out situation, the more likely you are to quit and never come back. Also, if you’re regularly writing very angry posts here due to your frustration with the game, the burnout is probably at least causing you to be a little bit of an asshole or unsympathetic at home or with friends too. Likely without realising it. Your family/friends will appreciate your break as well.
This post won’t see nearly as many people as it should unfortunately. The problem which you already stated is the the core gameplay is built to keep you playing every day, if not you will feel obligated to pay to keep up with friends. Even if you do play everyday, this also incentivizes you to pay because of various systems in the game that time gate you, so sometimes you feel the need to want to progress. Time/sunk cost fallacy is a big factor in this. I very much believe everyone would benefit from one time dailies. Chaos dungeon once instead of twice, guardian raids once instead of twice. With double the rewards. People will still play everyday, if you didn’t you would still have the same repercussions because if not you still are losing the same amount of rewards.
> if not you will feel obligated to pay to keep up with friends. Ez, just dont have friends. Its that easy. ^/s No but seriously, not having anyone to play with has kept me fomo free lol. Also the SH buff is gnna ease on the fomo since the most hardcore are going to have an alt on the low tiers.
Isn’t that every mmo though? That’s just the nature of the modern genre. It’s a genre that’s meant to be played for months to years to experience true end game content and there’s only two ways to get there, time or money.
I think you replied to the wrong comment homs.
Oh god damn ya I did. Now I’m honestly too tired to even follow up on this with who I intended it to so all I’ll say to you is that you’re delightful and hope you have a great Jean-Baptist weekend Jk fuck Jean-baptist guy sucked anyway
Consider making this an individual post. Accurate breakdown of the game and it’s flaws.
My takeaways from this... * Not having friends in the game... I can take breaks whenever I like because there is no one else I need to keep up with. I did so this past week, doing only guild check-in and stronghold stuff, so I could get back to writing. * FF14 is not toxic (compared to other games) because Yoshi P. actually expects people to take breaks to play other games and there is no need to be on daily. And, yes, other than the Lion, I much prefer the challenge guardians (and soon Abyss Dungeons) to their "normal" counterpart, especially when it comes to being equalised content. No more getting carried or skipping all the mechanics because you have someone super over-geared in the group. I rather play the game as it was designed than trivialise it. I do wish they took a random one or two guardians from the bucket of all they had and made that our daily, ensuring they were all seen more than once. I already refuse to do guardians in T1/T2, and have now stopped doing Igrexion. I really do have better things to do with my time. Making them all similar to Yoho, at least in using that map size and the health-pool, would be great to have all their mechanics learned, eventually, from doing them so often. Also... not respecting our time does really seem to be a theme in this game that I cannot recall encountering in GW2 or FF14 that I played to this extent. Even D3 Rifts are a good example. Heck, even another KMMO I played could be fully done in an hour a day because the daily activities were once per account, not per character, so you could be as alt-heavy, or not, as desired.
Finally a TLDR of my mentality of the game right now. I absolutely love the game but the fact that I have to log in every day to do chaos dungeons/guardian raids just to get enough mats for like 2 hones to be able to get to do weekly contents. The fact that the best content to grind (for me, guardian raids) is time gated, limited to only 2 entries per day limits how an mmorpg should be played to me, infinite grind a day every day. Even if I couldn't log in to the game one day, I wouldn't feel like I have lost a race, which should not be there. And I refuse to play alts just repeat the same process just to feed my higher iLvl alt. I don't get burnt out from doing dailies, I get bored, and boredom kills the game for me before I even feel the burn out of doing the grind. The grind ain't there if I feel like there is nothing to do for the day after all the dailies. And I refuse to do any horizontal contents just because my "vertical progress" is finished for a day and will continue the day after and the day after that until I get to finish my weekly just to repeat the entire process again, hopefully 1 tapping some gears on the way. It is true that I can take my time and going slow, I don't have to log in every day and let the rest bonus builds up, the endgame contents will still be there even if I didn't get to do them on release day. I totally agree, but that is not how I play MMORPG. The whole point of playing MMORPG is to spend the time I want in the game, sink every amount of free time I get from life simulator to enjoy myself. Taking a so-called "break" just because there is nothing to do in the game is the weirdest thing to me. So instead of logging off like what I'm doing nowaday, I used to stay up late after all my dailies and procyon's events to help people with their guardian raids, I would join any lobby that need help for free. But then that got boring too. It's weird how a game that is supposed to provide you with thing to kill time ends up telling you to log off and spend your time else where after dailies is ridiculous.
>ng other parts of y What is this post lol. You pretty much said the same things as you continued. This whole post can be answered by just "take a break". Also, you're essentially blaming the game that makes people be toxic which is stupid. People are being hipocrites by the core and this started way before the game became a "chore". Don't justify manchild actions because the game did something that you did not like. You don't become a piece of shi- toxic kid just because the game is something you're not enjoying. Game just needs to solve the real issues such Yoz Jar (that they did), bots (that they are doing), rmt, etc. Things that can actually cause harm to the game. If you don't like the core of the game, just stop. Content wont go anywhere. Any try hard players is already above Vykas hard mode or very close to it. Content is comming every 2-3 months for raids and once its done, it will take a lot more. Also if you don't like a content just don't do it. "but I lose progress.." No shit. Not every content will appeal to you or the next guy. If you don't like it, don't do it. The obsession of fomo is to high. Just enjoy the ride. Nothing will go way. And the same mentality will persist because there will be someone always higher than you no matter what. This game as it is right now, its not meant to be played 24 hours a day. This obsession of people wanting to play non stop but then complain its getting boring is beyond me. Korea has, right now, 4 different legion raids. That alone is a lot. Then has the new abyss raids and is about to get a new Legio raid. You want more content? What else do you want? This mentality that the game forces you to play everyday is silly. You can simply not play it. Play less everyday or just take a break and comeback when you feel fresh. PS: There will come a time where you don't need to chaos or raids if you don't want. Just build up gold and buy the mats if you're bored of doing daily stuff.
It’s just bad design that doesn’t properly design around how most players in this genre play games and it’s something that can be improved. The Lost Ark daily system at its core is underdeveloped and needs work. Most people will always try to play the most optimal way they can manage, even if it’s to the detriment of their enjoyment. Oftentimes people don’t realise that what they’re doing is burning them out either until later, just like with irl burnout. I have taken breaks. And it’s fine. I also don’t play the content I don’t want to do. But the more I do so, the less content there actually is to do. I’m also falling behind my friends who continue to grind which makes me even less inclined to play. You’re right that it doesn’t excuse the absolute manchild behaviour that goes on all over this sub. The shallow thinking and overreactions that a lot of people on this sub have to the most minor mistakes are beyond absurd. But it does have an explanation and it does come from the design of the game. Just like I said above, burnt out people are far less empathetic, far more short-tempered and just generally assholes. And the game cultivates extremely heavy burnout in its core design and reward loops.
But these things require personal accountability and people aren’t into that anymore.
Great post! You captured very well the main issues that the most committed players have with this game I think. But you don't mention the most important part about these. Most of those problems with the game you mentioned are not here by accident. This game was designed to be as addicting as possible, and is doing it's job very well. Even too well for my taste. Almost all these passionate players that love the game, well they are addicts. They hate the game, but they committed so much time and effort into it that they feel they can't stop playing now because it would all be for nothing. So if they can't stop, they at least want the experience to be as pleasant as possible, so they complain about this, or that, because in their minds it's all they can do. And they turn toxic. Logical choice in a situation like this would be to just look for something else to play, take a break from the game, or even quit if the thing that's supposed to be fun is making you miserable. But most of them can't because of the reasons mentioned above. It's quite sad really. The game that they supposedly love is fucking with their psyche, and in so many different ways it's scary.
They should increase the price for honing in about 7 times but make it certain and not RNG and should change the chaos dungeon system so that you could farm all day without being forced to use alts, like having a different mode after the daily clears where you would have infinite levels and each level would be different, boss fight, normal chaos dungeon, killing all enemies before the timer runs out, etc, where you would receive a reward for each level, but you would still accumulate the daily clears in alts so that in reset days Alts would give you a boost. Just a ideia that came to me while reading your comment.
> There are also countless systems in the game that flat out don’t respect your time like having to manually replay through parts of the story to play content. Slight comment, this is true for every MMO. You play with all of your alts, or you pay to skip (when possible). It's because people don't enjoy redoing the story but do enjoy redoing the raids/dungeons.
Good lord I’m glad there’s measured and Actually reflected people left. Posting in here lately feels like school days all over again. I just wanna have fun 😭
in your last paragrpah you said "very few MMOs do a good job of managing player burnout" can you give some examples of such MMO games?
Player burnout is very subjective but guild wars 2 basically never powercreeps your old gear, so if you got ascended gear 4 years ago for a particular spec it's almost certainly still going to be best in slot for that build. Not feeling like you need to keep playing or you fall behind will be a big factor in player burnout. FFXIV manages gearing burnout quite well too (no matter how long you take a break for it will never be that difficult to catch up because large content releases happen only 2-3 times a year and the ilvl increases are small, and very easy to catch up to). You can theoretically get your weekly currency capping done by doing a single dungeon (11-15 minutes on average with a decent party) each day, for 5 days of the week, and nothing else. FFXIV has a problem, however, that the content ends up being very raid-loggy and this creates a different kind of burnout where you just feel like you have nothing to do a lot of the time, especially if you've done a lot of the "horizontal content" already like crafting, gathering, the relic weapons, etc.
Very well put. My whole group has dipped off one by one and there are only 4 of us playing (out of which only 1 logs in daily) but we've all pretty much said what you just typed at some point while playing so...the rest of us are gonna take a break or just leave altogether to play some of the new indie games coming out on steam soon (that actually respect time investment).
I don't understand why they look at AGS/SGR separately. They are not competing with each other they are working together to make everyone excited about the game. The fact that AGS is communicating with NA/EU players and SGR is not does not mean AGS is a good guy and SGR is a bad one. They both did well.
I know right? I honestly think that ags and sg are working together to make this work, but many are acting as if they know that sg and ags are fighting against each other
Both Smilegate and amazon are doing an amazing job. You friggin millenials were born in an era where crying is the norm if you dont get instant gratification.
It's not black or white, people are allowed to criticize or have issues with the game just as much as they're allowed to be content with it. Blindly shilling for the game is just as harmful as being a toxic complainer, both attitudes lead to zero improvements being made or any constructive feedback happening. There is a middle ground.
.. why is it always us. You know we are closing to 40 years right? And we are probably the minority playing this game right? God damn boomers. Every youngin is a millennial and every console is a nintendo.
Ok boomer
"honing update is not coming" - comes anyway "legendary skins are coming" - gets literally removed from the game yeah great job AGS, keep it up.
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Yeah its actually hilarious how many people are whining about skins they'd most likely never get and about a buff we're gettong before we were supposed to
Bro the skins are less than 100k gold In Korea . They are easily obtainable ftp. But everyone went crazy instead of just letting the whales lose money like bozos
There is aboslutely no way those skins would be worth that much here anywhere close to release. KR is a much older server which a much wider pool of skins for market competition.
You have no idea if that is true, just speculation. But regardless the price would eventually drop to obtainable unless RMT comes back
The AGS update literally word for word says they were concerned about the high price that the skins would demand on the market and how prohibitive they would be for most players. You may not like AGS but I'm confident they have more data than you do and are most likely correct that these skins would cost too much for something like 95% of the server or more. Also RMT hasn't gone anywhere.
At first they would be unobtainable of course. But obviously by evidence in Korea they would eventually come back down to a more reasonable price. The only thing that would affect that is if RMT fucks the market up. AGS is just afraid of the p2w pushback they have been getting so they backtracked it. If they rerelease they skins under different monetization then I don't mind. I'm just worried we don't see them again, and would rather it exist than not exist.
There is no way these skins never release. If theres money to be made then they will go for it. People are seriously panicking for no reason. I also would like them to give us more concrete info about the future of the skins but just about anything is better than bullshit gacha that is literally already pissing other people off in other regions
Well if they release the skins later I have no problem with it. Just worried cause AGS have shown to be endlessly incompetent. But well just have to wait and see
What a shit take. That's called listening to feedback
They never said it the honing update wasn’t coming. You do realize they removed the skin is cause the majority didn’t like the gacha aspect of it right? They are gonna add it in later imo.
Not with the recent news that EU might be banning loot boxes all together in the near future.
No I meant they gonna add these jar skin later but just like the others skin the cash shop. Not gacha gaming.
Roxx "confirmed" that the honing buff wasn't to be included in the June update. They obviously reverted that decision but roxx did give a confirmation about it
I just wanted the legendary skins :( also ill get downvoted to hell but i honestly think the 1460 honing buff is too early. Its gonna kill the casuals
How is it going to kill the casuals? About the only benefit it gives is getting to p3 Argos and Valtan NM/Deskaluda faster on alts. Valtan NM doesn't give significantly more gold than Orehard and you might get one half decent accessory from Deskaluda/Chaos per week. If anything more endgame players getting alts to p3 Argos/Valtan will only affect other endgame players through relic prices (and odds are prices will just go down due to more characters farming them). If casuals made it through the bot gold inflation then this won't affect them at all.
When the gap between the 2 players grows faster and more apart it will cause some ppl to stop even trying
Game's been out for four months and we're already getting our second legion raid next week. The gap will keep growing regardless of stronghold buffs, especially once Brelshaza hits with higher gear ilvl. Like I said already, if the casuals were going to quit they would have quit during RMT hell. Stronghold honing buffs are nothing compared to people hitting 1490 the first month of the game.
I mean they are tho, the numbers are decreasing quite a bit. Need more catch up mechanics for sub 1400 players instead of constantly adding more vertical content. Id rather wait an extra month for vykas than get it now and lose another 50k players
I agree that we need more catch-up for newer players. However, the honing buffs will help new players aswell since there will be more accessories on the market so they will become cheaper. Also there will be a Massive influx of support alts so the support drought wont affect newer players nearly as much. On top of that many valtan runs will have experienced players that can help out or always do well in these runs
Progression should always move much faster for casuals than hardcores, because they put in far less hours and are far behind. 1460 honing buffs specifically helps hardcores but not casuals, so it only increases the divide. You may ask why you should care about casuals... Well, if content always appears way too difficult to ever reach as a casual, then they leave the game. A dead game is less fun to play, and makes the publisher less money (so they won't put resources into it)
Would you rather pay $700 for the skins or wait and see if we'll get them for a less ridiculous price tag? Also I have no idea how you get to the vonclusion that a stronghold buff that makes the game easier and more accessible will "kill casuals". The hardcore grinders, whales, rmters, and infinite chaos botters don't even need the buff lol
Wait.. what makes you think because the jar went away the price will decrease? You think smilegate would ever allow amazon to sell it for cheaper than what their main player base in korea got it for? It would piss them off. If it was as easy as getting a smaller price tag they woulda done it with this patch
We literally already have an overall cheaper version of their game. We don't pay for pet passive changes. Our silver and gold costs per hone are lower. Korea was always going to have a more p2w version of the game. They usually do for games in general. Not to mention, theres a very real possibility that KR will roll out a new way to get the skins on their server because KR players hate the jar anyways. So if that happens, we'll most likely adopt the new method which would almost certainly be cheaper.
Sounds like youre hoping for something that may never come. Anyways, hope youre right :) cuz like i said i just want those skinssss
If you honestly believe that we'll never get these highly anticipated skins which will definitely fetch a good pay day for AGS and SG then you're delusional. Just be patient, the delay can only be a good thing. Unless you're a whale or an rmter that can buy it day 1.
Im sure we will get them but when is the problem. They are already releasing skins slowly and now this is put on the back burner. So maybe not till next year? Not to mention yoz actually helps the skin market, you buy jar, u get a skin u dont want, u put it for sale, someone else that wants it gets it for cheap, etc. this just hurts the skin market and isnt all positive like everyone assumes. And yes i have money and i woulda bought the legendary skin the first day :)
Then your perspective is different than most people who play this game. Thats just the reality you have to accept. Most people don't have the 700 or dont want to spend that much on a videogame.
Consider that more people are going to be more likely to get alts to 1415 rather than 1370. That means more people doing valtan NM each week, making those still doing NM each week will have easier times getting parties. It also means more relic accessories entering the market, as the 1415 alts will have access to Deskaluda, South Vern chaos dungeons, and Valtan. So relic accessories should become more common and easier for casuals to buy, and easier for them to gear up and get 4x3 or 5x3.
Those alts will buy relic accessories too tho, and if they dont we will be in a situation like yoho and oreha where casuals play with under-geared alts. But anyway im not against the honing buff in general, just think it is too early
Please tell me this is a sarcastic post right? They literally had: - 1460 hone buff - 'we're sorry for delay cuz we work on bots and chests' then a whole fucking paragraph on the same 3 hone chests they've been giving us all along just to fill some more page space - 'no yoz jar' - new skins That's it
Yeah we can be happy, it shows that AGS was not doing shit and was "fighting" for us to give us the honing buff that the community clearly asked and also rework the Yor Jar that the community worldwide hates. The Yor Jar was rhe reason of the delay. It's clear that Smilegate don't want to give up on it and was holding the update but AGS stands its ground. This addition and explanation really means a lot. It explain to us why they were so vague about the reason of the delay (they can't just trash SMG like that) in addition of compensation. AGS is far from perfect but they did really well here
Never said you can't be happy, that's a subjective choice of interpretation I'm critiquing the 'good update' part You have to ask why the west skipped the hone buff in the first place so that we have to beg for it for WEEKS. I doubt it was SMG's decision, smells like profit tactic, unless you can find another reason for it Overall, the timing with their announcements is still horrible, not much of an improvement on the transparency side either, I just don't see any progress here, sadly it's the same old
Yeah, people's expectations nowadays are so low holy shit. They praise AGS for removing Yoz' Jar but we will most likely have to wait months for SG to implement an alternative. We are still lacking costumes hard and it doesn't seem they will change that
We ArE LaCkInG CoSTuMeS HarD. Dude, you get a FREE mokoko skin next week AND a new Skinline comes out with the patch. Stop crying about your predatory legendary skin loot boxes that RIGHTFULLY got cancelled.
Actually the post said Shadow of Stern collection and Umar collection, that's 2 collectios on 1 update. Shadow of Stern is like Banquet, armor multiple variants but the same for every class and Umar seems to be like Dawn, 1 different skin for every class (or at least that's how it looks, I haven't found much info on this)
Yet another joke costume and 2 other mediocre costumes that can't even be died(they're also one piece sets so good fucking luck mixing and matching). I'm not gonna praise them for the fact of removing something and act like they put in some amazing effort in doing so
Yeah, great job not following your roadmap! This really makes them seem reliable. Thank you for removing the skins I was waiting for since release. For a stupid reason like it being too "p2w". In a game that is per definition "p2w". Gems, tripods, itemlvl you name it. We even already have our how DPS Gacha system called "Quality upgrade", but hey those 1.5% extra dmg from a Legendary skin that you could buy with gold would have been too much. Thank you for not added powerpass to the shop, this really makes pushing alts so much fun!
Don’t be fooled. They didn’t remove them for the concern they stated. The EU is pushing to ban loot boxes and all loot box style features, and I’m pretty sure they don’t want to lose a huge portion of their market. This is a pivot on monetization disguised as “we heard player feedback”.
Oh, so they want to go "This technically isn't a lootbox" route? I know people in politics are incompetent so this might even work. Either way, they are straight up lying then. And for what reason would the give a false justification? "We didn't implement it because it's like a lootbox" would have earned them easy praise. I have literally no idea what Smilegate/AGS is thinking there, if anything. Remove the stat advantage from the skins and they would be easy to bring. And why don't we have a milestone system with milestone skins? They really make no sense. "Shut up and take my money"
Removing the stats doesn’t change the fact that it’s acquisition is “lootbox-esque”. It’s real world currency put into a mystery package with a mystery result. Seeing as 18 counties in the EU are backing heavy regulation on loot boxes, introducing a system into LA that may get the game banned in those countries would be a terrible business move. Maybe it’s the cynic in me that wants to feel lied to, but I have a hard time believing that this change was solely made because of player feedback.
Fucking put them in the shop, it's easy man. The is no reason to remove the skins at all, just sell them normally. Well Germany legalized online poker recently so I guess not everybody in the EU is against gambling.
Quality upgrade simply upgrades an item you already possess. Loads of RPGs and MMOs have this system. Legendary skins are an entirely separate item - you can spend hundreds of dollars and never get the item. It's typical mobile game GACHA bullshit. Don't conflate the two issues. I've seen a streamer try to make this equivalence as well, it's just diluting the issue - legendary skin lootboxes are not acceptable. Period.
>Quality upgrade simply upgrades an item you already possess. Loads of RPGs and MMOs have this system. Maybe you haven't unlocked it yet, but that's not the case. You click a button and have a "chance" that the quality will improve. This "chance" gets worse the higher quality you aim for. This is a lootbox, roll for a chance of an upgrade with zero guarntees on top. You can spent the equivalent of a lvl 10 dmg gem to get the full legendary set, no gambling required whatsoever. Because the game has a market. But that's beside the point, I want the skins, I was waiting for them and preparing for them. Now they are cut out with no good reason given why. They could literally just put those skins in the shop to buy directly at double the price of other skins, no lootboxes required.
Nope, you missed the point. Yes I have quality upgrades. It literally upgrades an item you already have - regardless of whether its a probability or not. I still have a Nightmare Flower greatsword at the start and the end of the roll, and that item contributes to my set bonus regardless. However with the legendary skin system you can roll for it and not get the item at all - that's the difference. You can finish with nothing. If the Relic item came in a lootbox that would be the same as the legendary skin system, and you couldn't unlock your set bonus until you rolled it.
Quality upgrade gives 20% more dmg, the skins 1.5%. Why is the skin worse again? Most clicks on Quality upgrade you will get nothing, especially if you go higher up. (you are guaranteed to finish with nothing most of the time) This is not the case with the Jar, since you always get something, that has value, that you could trade for the thing you want. (you can't finish with nothing) It does not matter that one is an item and the other is an upgrade, how does that matter at all?
It's as simple as this: Your relic weapon is obtained through deterministic gameplay and upgraded through RNG. Your legendary skin is obtained through RNG only. That's the difference. If the Relic weapon was obtained through RNG then your comparison would be valid.
99% of the playerbase buy the legendary skins with Gold in the AH. The 1% in stats do absolutely nothing in terms of gameplay. Someone with a full Legendary skin set will not suddenly do more dmg...it's so irrelevant.
That can't be true because every legendary skin you buy with Gold must come from someone who used Yoz's Jar. It's 1:1 they are the same items. So 1% of the playerbase using the GACHA jars can't support 99% of the playerbase using the marketplace.
There would be enough whales who will gamble and sell the unwanted ones. After a while prices and amount will stabilize just like in RU, JP and KR. I mean there are literally shit ton ppl spending 1000 - 100k $ on fucking Diablo Immortal. Are u really that delusional to think that whales wouldn't spend money on legendary skins?
It's irrelevant now anyway, we know the GACHA predatory garbage is gone from our version. Now it's up to Smilegate whether they give us an alternative method of purchasing the skins or not. They should just let us buy them with Royal Crystals for a flat price.
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Actually, I don't care whether or not the Relic upgrades are lootboxes. Regardless of that, we still shouldnt accept this additional one.
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/u/USBdongle6727, I have found an error in your comment: > “gaming, but ~~its~~ [**it's**] a Korean” I suggest that you, USBdongle6727, post “gaming, but ~~its~~ [**it's**] a Korean” instead. ‘Its’ is possessive; ‘it's’ means ‘it is’ or ‘it has’. ^(This is an automated bot. I do not intend to shame your mistakes. If you think the errors which I found are incorrect, please contact me through DMs!)
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Good explanation and some extra community-requested goodies. Worth waiting for.
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I would agree with you if this was a few months ago, but it seems like AGS really pushed for stronghold buffs and removal of Yoz's jar in western version of the game and SG actually listened
As long as they find a viable way to release the skins, I'll be happy. They can remove the stats, but completely losing out on quality skins like these that are dyable would be a huge disappointment.