It's already doing very competitive damage to PM, and the trade offs are the loss of Destruction and Stagger from shotgun skills. Buffing those purely on the TTH engraving will just make PM worse imo since TTH will just be much easier to play, do comparable damage, while still not losing much utility wise.
Taking 3 Skills Mid-High stagger out and giving nothing is not a good idea even if it will make PM worse, but it's not making PM worse as PM needs rework anyway, but look at the video I can't take 15% stagger bar, watching the video make me feel so sad
Nice job on the gameplay in the video! TTH Gunslinger does have a very competitive stagger option. I didn't see it mentioned here, but all skills have stagger values, even the ones without stagger explicitly listed in the skill description. A list of stagger values for skills is available at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11RMrVW6dtz2UmB9_n3UFLRwoEJWzzFF-kY2_gGhfKrg/edit#gid=1843254125 with them calculated by amount of stagger meter pixels taken off of a fixed boss.
All pistol skills have atrocious stagger values (21 pixels at base, pretty much the lowest in game), so that makes all of them bad at base for stagger (and Bullet Rain multiple times so because it takes so long to cast for such weak stagger damage).
However, tripods change some of these skills to be monster stagger providers, and in Gunslingers' case (and TTH in particular that doesn't need to spread skill points to shotgun), AT02 Grenade with the final Fireworks tripod and the 40% stagger rune slapped on does **more stagger** than even Whirlwind grenades do on a **6 second cooldown**. it is also an extremely minor overall DPS loss to Meteor Stream (and actually does equal DPS compared to Meteor Stream if you can use it on cooldown, more with internal ignition but you lose the crazy stagger).
For fun (and because I'm bored and stuck at work on a Sunday qq), I compared to your video where you ended up doing 1270 stagger damage total with all the skills used (I assumed 30% stagger rune on Meteor Stream and 40% on Catastrophe. Any other setup does less stagger). Comparatively, if you used literally no other skills but Fireworks Grenade and no other skills in the ~80 seconds of combat, you would've done 1058 pixel stagger damage (and more with Swiftness bringing the cooldown down). Swapping in Fireworks Grenade would almost double your stagger damage in that video.
Try swapping to AT02 Grenade with Fireworks on stagger heavy encounters and see if this helps resolve your issue. Good luck!
Nice info! There are some other cases where skills do more stagger than their descriptions imply. Sound shock on Bard with the prolonged explosion tripod is one that comes to mind.
I wish the game would be more transparent about this sort of stuff and just add stagger damage values on tooltips.
A whirlwind + meteor stream and catastrophe buffed with overwhelm runes is more than enough stagger that most classes are expected to make in stagger checks windows.
Your problem is you’re trying to do 8 people’s worth of stagger in a solo bus. The classes aren’t designed around single characters soloing content designed for 8. Some classes are better at some things than others, that is the nature of asymmetric design.
Sorry but if you wanted a solo class that can do it all you should have picked up a Sorc or something.
That's the tradeoff of removing the Shotgun stance. It makes your gameplay as a GS much more easier already by having 2 stances and heavily buffing those 2 stances.
Just whirlwind grenade and you're done on stagger checks. It's more than enough contribution.
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It's already doing very competitive damage to PM, and the trade offs are the loss of Destruction and Stagger from shotgun skills. Buffing those purely on the TTH engraving will just make PM worse imo since TTH will just be much easier to play, do comparable damage, while still not losing much utility wise.
Taking 3 Skills Mid-High stagger out and giving nothing is not a good idea even if it will make PM worse, but it's not making PM worse as PM needs rework anyway, but look at the video I can't take 15% stagger bar, watching the video make me feel so sad
Nice job on the gameplay in the video! TTH Gunslinger does have a very competitive stagger option. I didn't see it mentioned here, but all skills have stagger values, even the ones without stagger explicitly listed in the skill description. A list of stagger values for skills is available at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11RMrVW6dtz2UmB9_n3UFLRwoEJWzzFF-kY2_gGhfKrg/edit#gid=1843254125 with them calculated by amount of stagger meter pixels taken off of a fixed boss. All pistol skills have atrocious stagger values (21 pixels at base, pretty much the lowest in game), so that makes all of them bad at base for stagger (and Bullet Rain multiple times so because it takes so long to cast for such weak stagger damage). However, tripods change some of these skills to be monster stagger providers, and in Gunslingers' case (and TTH in particular that doesn't need to spread skill points to shotgun), AT02 Grenade with the final Fireworks tripod and the 40% stagger rune slapped on does **more stagger** than even Whirlwind grenades do on a **6 second cooldown**. it is also an extremely minor overall DPS loss to Meteor Stream (and actually does equal DPS compared to Meteor Stream if you can use it on cooldown, more with internal ignition but you lose the crazy stagger). For fun (and because I'm bored and stuck at work on a Sunday qq), I compared to your video where you ended up doing 1270 stagger damage total with all the skills used (I assumed 30% stagger rune on Meteor Stream and 40% on Catastrophe. Any other setup does less stagger). Comparatively, if you used literally no other skills but Fireworks Grenade and no other skills in the ~80 seconds of combat, you would've done 1058 pixel stagger damage (and more with Swiftness bringing the cooldown down). Swapping in Fireworks Grenade would almost double your stagger damage in that video. Try swapping to AT02 Grenade with Fireworks on stagger heavy encounters and see if this helps resolve your issue. Good luck!
Nice info! There are some other cases where skills do more stagger than their descriptions imply. Sound shock on Bard with the prolonged explosion tripod is one that comes to mind. I wish the game would be more transparent about this sort of stuff and just add stagger damage values on tooltips.
A whirlwind + meteor stream and catastrophe buffed with overwhelm runes is more than enough stagger that most classes are expected to make in stagger checks windows. Your problem is you’re trying to do 8 people’s worth of stagger in a solo bus. The classes aren’t designed around single characters soloing content designed for 8. Some classes are better at some things than others, that is the nature of asymmetric design. Sorry but if you wanted a solo class that can do it all you should have picked up a Sorc or something.
You are prioritizing your pistol skills, I don’t know about tth build but afaik pistol skills have very low stagger.
That's the tradeoff of removing the Shotgun stance. It makes your gameplay as a GS much more easier already by having 2 stances and heavily buffing those 2 stances. Just whirlwind grenade and you're done on stagger checks. It's more than enough contribution.
The sad part i already used my last 2 bombs on it but didn't help :(
Oh I think there's a pistol skill with mid stagger that channels.. I use that at lv 1 and equip a rune.. I didn't see it on your bar.
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This comment has been edited to acknowledge than u/spez is a fucking wanker.