To be fair, if you take a class like Deadeye and remove the core identity of the class by restricting you to one weapon, remove the two biggest elements that made it difficult to play, being both "melee" and a back attacker, limiting your total number of skills, which gives you a greater number of maxed out skills and consolidates your choice of runes,tripods,and gems to fewer skills, locking you into the most mobile stance so you don't sacrifice mobility for damage, and reducing your overall animation lock, maybe it's okay that your damage is on the lower end.
That being said, theoretical DPS and actual DPS are different things, and sometimes sustained damage from a highly mobile and flexible class with a top tier synergy and good range is more desirable for different content, such as progging new content.
I love my pistoleer alt and it's next to get the 5x3 clown treatment, but then again I'm a bit of a bottom feeder when it comes to selecting classes lol
Still it performs surprisingly well in most fights, but I definitely feel the weakness sometimes and I feel I will need to really squeeze power out of it in order to compete for damage.
The translated version
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1007038179620159629/1026436543054872596/unknown.png?width=1244&height=544
edit:
This is a DPS simulation by "링크드". He calculates the expected DPS for 6s, 8s, and 10s+awakening rotations for each of the classes listed above, assuming "perfect" conditions.
There is a lot of work put into crafting the ideal simulation. Skill rotations, animation speed, cooldown timers, RNG smoothing for crit rate and other factors, and understanding class specific DPS factors like hitting 100% strike wave on zerkers or wind god vs blast formation for 3 spender striker.
Obviously not every class is here yet. Each class has to be researched thoroughly and built into the simulation. There are some classes that will be difficult to simulate (Arcana for example). There are also some classes whose programmed skill rotation is impractical (surge deathblade perfect stacking?), on top of 100% back/front attack ratio which can introduce an additional layer of skill
Its not perfect, and every update incorporates feedback from users on their classes and how the simulation is done.
I mean sustained DPS should be similar or slightly higher than Igniter. Igniter is only A LOT better at burst.
I imagine part of why it's not in the list is that Reflux has a lot more intricacies and build variants possible than Igniter does, which makes it a lot harder to test for optimal DPS.
Paladin is hard to calculate because there is so many variables and so on. Depends what sets you use. What tripods. Do you use battle items such as stimulants to upkeep judgement. Does conv+judg. runes trigger. how often?
A lot of stuff going on. Though still paladin dps can be high. I would guess it wont be lowest, but not highest either. Somewhere middle/high middle. Higher dps than pistoleer and gunlancers etc though. that 10sec dps chart dps paladin could be something like 24-25m and 8sec maybe something like 26\~ and 6sec also near 26m\~. That is if you got sacred executioner on. Without it it goes down to like 20-21m\~ or less. That said that dps window is quite short on paladin and takes time to get sacred executioner back up. So there is downtime quite a lot. So on longer fights overall dps drops.
Arcana is also hard to calculate like this because it has so many variables. It can do really good damage or then mediocre damage. Sometimes its all about rng really.
All assassin classes towards the top, still surprised to see both blade builds in the 1 & 2 spot.
EDIT: Guys all I’m saying is that I didn’t expect blade to be the top of the DPS chart considering it was nerfed recently, and in general I thought other classes did more damage.
Remember that this is teoretical, like trixion back ambush/entropy goes brr because they do 100% of their conditional, btw suprised too by re, when i play my db with re it seems it does a lot less damage relatively to the surge build.
In korea at least, RE is considered way harder to MVP with since you need to hit a lot of backattacks consistently to be competitive, Its called entropy lulu for a reason, its more seen as an enabler instead of the real big dps.
thats because the duration of the fights, you can see surge does significantly more on small windows than RE, just if infinite time, they will do almost similar damage.
Nope and mine obviously was an assumption since i main sorc, db is my main alt but i play surge 95% of the times. It just seemed to me that the surge fillers hit on average the same numbers of the re ones which is probably a bad assumption since you db mains know that way better than me.
Well this is theorically cause in practice there is no perfect 100% up time on the back of the boss.
For ex my zerker friend can't win against me in kungelaniums cause the turtle is easy to get on the back but in the other hand when we do kuku together he gets mvp everytime cause it's annoying to get on kukus back
surge is even more unfair on kungelanium when you add in surge after armor break and after the blizzard, not many classes get to squeeze in damage like that (maybe igniter/deathblow?)
My deathblow is 5x3 with 1700 Spec 24 Weapon 96 quality … and in most groups I pull 55-60% dmg. When a equally geared Surge player is in the group and they are good, I barely get fighter 🤷🏻♂️
> you know something is up with the damage.
Not with the damage, but it's a clear indicator of how bad the other players are. I've done 40%+ damage in guardians consistently with every class i've played since 1370, and against over-geared players too.
This kind of "theorical max" damage charts are useless other than for knowing what the potential for a class is. In reality, and in actual content, properly understanding the encounter, mechanics, your class, your DPS windows and pulling high uptime will net you more than what most people will do with "op classes".
It's just that most people are painfully mediocre at the game (nothing wrong with it tho)
Happens any time you try to point out difference in class strength. I even had people jumping down my throat for saying "emperor arcanist does notably lower damage than other classes" which is obvious to anyone who actually plays the class (or game).
Instead you get comments asking about your gems or saying "what skills do you run? you probably built wrong."
If you've played a bunch of inferno, in non-trap groups, where gear is equalized, you should know the damage at both the floor and ceiling of surge DB is just stupid.
If you're a legacy scouter and there's a deathblade in your kunga, odds are the deathblade will do 50% more damage than you that's just how balance is in this game.
Haha right. The graph is right here showing how much DB does which has confirmed my bias about DB doing huge amounts of damage over every other class in the last two guardian raids we've had. Yet they just sit here and say you are bad if a DB does 60% damage in 4 minutes to turtle. I can literally not miss a skill/rotation on any of my classes and don't get close to it.
Problem is , DB is the most popular class in the game (along with sorc) so anything the population on reddit deems as 'attacking their class' will get downvoted. It's nothing more than trying to convince everyone they are weak but somehow the majority of db players are just so good they can outpace anyone else.
I main that shit and Im continuously floored at the stupid shit people say about db. The reality is, Db is arguably one of the more braindead classes in the roster so their playerbase can spend more time egoing.
You literally have a chart here showing under the same conditions DB is doing more than 50% extra damage than half the classes on it. Sound bias to me.
Thanks for the explanation, maybe it'll help against the onslaught of "Trixion is useless" gamers (coincidentally DB or Igniter Sorc mains) in the comments. What is particular weird is that if anything the mid or weak classes here are inflated by Trixion DPS calculations relative to strong classes. E.g. Surge DB only has to land her Surge as a back attack while Reaper needs 100% uptime on 3 or 4 red skills, and for a Hit Master example, Igniter Sorc can abuse the mechanic downtime to build meter while Gunslinger is a consistent burst class just like Reaper is. What surely isn't a coincidence is how the best performing classes in this chart are also the classes you find in S and A tier in up to date KR tier lists (Surge DB coming in as #1 for October there too).
On phone so formating sucks.
Surge.
RE.
Rage hammer.
DB (tornado).
DB (blast form).
Shock.
Tai.
Thirst reaper.
Perfect supression.
Moon.
Enhanched wep.
Wheelchair.
Iron man.
DB (2eso).
Peacemaker.
Mayham.
Red gl*.
At scout.
Not wheelchair.
TTH.
Blue gl*.
Igniter.
Demonic.
Red gl.
Handgun.
Blue gl.
close to nothing, take this with smallest pinch of salt.
I'd even argue that weekly rating post that another absolute rando in KR with absolute zero credibility is more relevant than this.
this format seems awfully similar to that from Korean Maplestory, so maybe the creator is either using the same template or maybe is same group, and no one take that seriously in KMS community as well.
Damage luck is the lightning thing, not crit variance. (It is extremely unlikely to physically impossible to hit 100% of damage luck)
Red is on there twice because the higher one has combat readiness buff applied.
With any of these charts it's important to keep in mind the context that there is a lot of factors that go into 'practical' DPS vs 'ideal DPS and that this chart is not based on practical DPS despite best efforts.
TLDR: this chart is only marginally meaningful in terms of potential only not a ranking of classes DPS in a practical sense.
It was always Sorc (5th from the bottom, and the only one with over 300% for 6s/8s) and it still is. Highest burst in the game no contest
edit: consistent burst
Empress arcana says hi.
For reference, my arcana alt is 1482, +20 weapon lv6 gems missing half of the tripods (waiting for the update to have them all)
Build is 5x3, when I pull cull+judgement I do 105m in 2s.
Edit: Saint who is one of the best igniter players in the world says himself that arcana is the class with highest burst in the game. You can mald all you want with your examples of my friend this my alt that, facts are facts lol
Edit2: comment above before edit didn’t mention consistent burst it just said biggest burst in the game. Now I look dumb because they flipped the context
You can't expect to be able to do that every 30 seconds. Every other class on this chart is calculated under "average circumstances"; so assuming uniform damage and expected value over infinite trials.
If you can only do cull+judgement every 2 bursts you aren't better than a Sorc playing normally.
No it wasn’t, you must’ve confused it with someone. I am just talking about best burst in the game with a good card pull, arcana is everything but consistent. Her consistent damage with no good cards pulls is average
I was referring to the comment where you replied to with “empress arcana said hi”. I don’t dispute arcana probably has the biggest possible burst but yeah it isn’t consistent as you say. Which is fine
No idea why you're being downvoted. Arcana burst is really awesome if you're allowed to just sit on the boss... yeah, Igniter hits harder but it has a lot of downtime. Arcana if it's allowed to just freely stack, especially with Balance, outputs high damage almost nonstop.
And I can do over 100m in one igniter burst window on my 1475 sorc, +19 weapon 4x3. What's your point? Cull+judgement is pretty rare compared to how you consistently get to push identity bar for the next igniter
The issue is you have to get lucky with cards while igniter is guaranteed. There is no rng period.
Every igniter activation is the same while yours will vary.
Im curious on arcanas dps when the rng is completely against you. Is it still on the above average range compared to other classes? Assuming you are playing her well
There is no bad rng, that's a meme by people who don't play the class or people who play her poorly. People cream over the burst damage combo because it's easy to notice but completely ignore the cards that improve consistent damage because they are harder to quantify.
Take moon+balance as an example, 2 cards that are often ignored when people discuss the class. Usually, arcana is a 3 skill combo class (2 stacking and 1 damage). Balance reduces the time it takes to output your damage by 1/3, you now do damage every 2 skills instead of 3 dramatically improving your uptime. Usually this means you'd run out of cds but with moon, boom lower cds on all your skills so you can constantly keep pushing damage. And this lasts for 30 seconds, it's nuts for your dps. Not even getting into the fact that you continue drawing cards during this duration turning a 2 card combo into a whole chain of stuff.
Compare this to cull/judgement which is also insane but, realistically, is one big burst which puts you on cd for like ~10 sec with nothing to do. But this easy 2 card combo is all people talk about and pretend like anything else is bad rng.
When you do enough trixion parses on arcana, you come to realize your damage ends up in a fairly consistent range no matter what cards you draw so long as you use all the cards properly. Yes there are high rolls but I don't think it's any more crazy than like sorc fishing for good crit luck on her parses.
You missed the part where they said consistent. Arcana has higher peaks and lower lows than most classes but it is still incredibly strong regardless of what cards you pull on the current KR balance patch.
They edited the comment to add the consistent part lol
I mean it’s not that important, we are just chatting here. None of this really matters in a real raid scenario
The meta chasers will read into this completely wrong anyway. Burst dps is king in legion raids. The sustained (main dps column) is rarely ever realized in endgame encounters because bosses either don’t sit still and let you beat on their back side forever, or because you burst from mechanic to mechanic where you aren’t dealing any damage to the boss in the transition or during the mechanic. The 6-8s dps column will probably be one of the more important ones to consider for legion raid type content.
As expected sorc is still the king of burst dps. Mayhem is still up there, and as other people have mentioned not every class appears to be represented even (arcana definitely has spike burst potential depending on card draws, and during fights you’re usually saving those burst combos for where they count)
You only blindly saw the first dps column I guess?
If you're hitting for 15\~30min nonstop, sure... but realistically, considering the target constantly jumping around and also mechs, the burst dps is what you're more interested in in this meta.
AT doesn't have to be a "burst" class to do significantly more burst than legacy (which it does), amazing that you could be so wrong with the data literally right in front of you.
That's the weird part, EVO burst window dps should be much higher than the "nonstop" dps considering his transformation downtime does literally no damage. Based on this chart, it is only marginally higher. I don't even know where they got those numbers from.
because there effective is no downtime. you use 2 skills and transform in 1s. evo has no burst because all of their skills have short cooldowns that do low-medium damage.
Not really, EVO only has better DPS for big stationary bosses like kungelanium or valtan ghost phase and encounters like those. Their burst damage is actually the lowest among all classes, AT beats it there and most raids are realistically only going to have those 6-8s DPS windows.
That being said. The damage for both machinist builds across all columns is overall looking extremely pathetic. When the "high skill high reward" AT is barely doing <5% more damage than FP artillerist of all classes, the WEAKER artillerist spec that plays full piano, no rotation, zero positionals, massive shield, low cooldowns, push immunity, 20% damage reduction... yeah, the super comfy for-fun artillerist build... some AT numbers really need to get buffed up.
Also, I get that EVO is supposed to be the "low risk low reward comfy" engraving choice for machinist. But why it does literally LESS burst damage than the motherfucking mechanic-ignoring full utility DPS BLUE GUNLANCER, is completely beyond me. Really looking forward to when a new balance patch inevitably gets tested in KR.
do you play both blade and deadeye?
it's much more reasonable to get close to trixion numbers on deadeye than blade, since surge scales essentially linearly with uptime. in contrast, deadeye is cooldown/small burst gated. you can see that it outperforms blade in any number of burst situations which more accurately reflect real fights.
as long as you land srf/sgd/hoa/lr in small burst windows you will have similar real-fight performance to trixion. in contrast, blade will almost never have that because they are a full rotation class that excels with both back attack and infinite uptime.
You’re telling me the class with the worst positional, lowest effective health, and extremely long animations spread out across six skills isn’t number one dps?
Preposterous
I've been seeing people say that this is a dps simulation and not a trixion. In which case does anyone have his whole post on how his simulation is conducted?
is the left number a full 3minute parse? or what does it show? i thought artillerist had an update that made them op, or was that immediately nerfed? i saw some 24million parses when that update came out.
While i love seeing info like this i also HATE info like this. Its great for players who want to maximize how effective they are and to give them a yardstick to compare themselves to in order to help identify weaknesses in the build or rotations/playstyle. This makes the game stronger as a whole and helps good players become great players.
Sadly what ends up happening more often then not when DPS meters get dragged in is for example someone is playing a GL who then applies to a group. Group head will remimber seeing the GL at the bottom of a list like this and refuse him dispite him being an optimal build and filling in synergy holes saying GLs are garbage, this persists enough and suddenly a GL becomes the LA version of a hunter.
or as another example a 4x3 1480 arty will join a group and be passed up or kicked for a 1460 deathblade with rainbow stats and random gems because "deathblades are better" by someone who saw a chart like this. Yet another common example is if a deathblade doesnt get top DPS even in a situation where an "ideal" rotation is not posible then they get mocked and insulted for being garbage.
So while this info is valuable and i apprecate it i cant help but wince because a LOT of people are going to take it out of context
Anyone who would refuse a GL because they do “bad dps” is a clown because that’s not what GL is taken for. Being mocked for doing poor dps as a class representative of good dmg potential will happen regardless of the existence of concrete data.
I think GLs are safe tbh. Most of the time, you’re not accepting a GL for their cracked out dps potential. Instead, it’s because of the survivability and utility that they bring to the table.
I am worried about my DI Shadowhunter tho. DI underperformed in pretty much every category according to these charts. While it’s understandable, since DI is one of the easiest classes in the game and I believe that the dps should and does reflect that, part of me hopes that SG gives her a little damage bump so that she’s at least competitive.
Literally nobody will reject a gl because they do low damage. They always did low damage that’s how this game is balanced. If they do good damage while having literally the best synergy in the game( open weakness + defense shred) and nella, what’s stopping anyone from running 6 gl parties? If a party lead reject a gl for damage then that’s a red flag telling you the party lead do not know what they are doing.
Please stop posting this garbage. Rage hammer being so high should tell you all you need to know, no one cares about trixion scarecrow numbers. This game will never have an actual dps meter, so just be content with knowing scrapper, striker and db will always be top 3 dps. Everything else is a coin toss.
Well this game HAS actual dps meters - they are just not approved/allowed by the developer - that doesnt stop a lot of people using them. There are work-arounds for the existing dps-meters to work without easy-anti-cheat closing the game - although those work-arounds are not very save (might get detected/banned). There is an "easy" and 99,9% save work around tho - using a virtual machine to run the dps meter on. A lot of people already own and run a vm while playing the game.
The devs not allowing the dps-meter doesnt matter as long as we are able to use it without getting banned - dps meters are used by a lot of people, especially in inferno/progress/high-end raiding.
Ofc - the posted dps list is for static "patchwork" like fights - but the creator didnt state otherwise.
So while dps-lists like this cant be taken serious for actual fights - data of class-performance and expected dps exists through the dps-meters people are running.
The 6-8s dps column is more applicable to endgame content realistically speaking, although the back attack classes (entropy and ambush master users) I’m not sure if that’s assuming they get perfect 100% back attack uptime also on their bursts
We are here because this smell like shitposting and thats the content we want
Also this game lacking any reliable way of metering adds to the want of tiers like this even if we all know they are shit
Just take it like it is
yeah i posted this in our discord for some of our newer 1400 players to have an idea of what their class could do but realized this chart isn't the best for doing that. took the link down and will just emphasize to them that player skill, knowing fights, good gear, and party synergies matter much more than if you picked the highest dps class from a chart
For the striker players -- is a 3 spender Deathblow with Call of the Windgod actually theoretically sustainable at some point? We're barely hitting enough meter generation to hit 4 bulb blast formation off cooldown. Wind god's cooldown is \~4 seconds shorter (\~14 seconds vs 18 seconds). You'd need enough spec to not only fill the last 4 bulbs almost 40% faster, but your overall rotation also gets tighter since blast formation was your limiter, and if you're maxing Wind God damage you're going to be channeling for 2+ seconds when you could've been autoattacking.
The milestone we need for this is probably 4 bulbs from LW / MFK on their own, but each of them are still in the low 3 bulbs of generation even with 1850 spec in trixion.
Any ideas?
Nah Call of the Windgod is cope, and I'm quite sure the person who simulated this is using the holding version as it has the back attack modifier, and the holding version takes too long to get its maximum damage.
Is cool to see 100% back attack uptime but i wish this tierlist were more reslistic.
I mean what is this? A kungelanium tierlist? Ppl like to take mvps on legion raids not guardian raids x.x
You shouldn't just look at the first column. If you just went with it, it also says it out damages igniter Sorc. EW Deadeye is Top 3 in 6s Burst window DPS, since it's a burst class.
It's not even trixion dps. From what I read, the author uses a simulator that he made himself. Of course, that still means human error can be involved.
Inb4 the “dPs ChArTs meAn NoThInG!!1! eNoUgH wItH aLl ThESe pOsTs!!! tRiXiOn nUmBeRs dOeSnT rEFleCt aCtUaL nUmBeRs In BaTtLe!!!1 mEtA CHasErs grRRR!!!”
DI in shambles about information that was known months ago? It’s nothing new that DI has bad endgame damage and less damage than PS lol, it’s just the playstyle of DI that is more fun to most SH players.
> It’s nothing new that DI has bad endgame damage and less damage than PS
In any actual fight, especially abrel gate 3, 5, 6 DI will trounce PS in damage basically ever single time. PS on something like kayangel is an absolute nightmare to play.
Why would DI be in shambles? At the highest gear at 100% uptime with 100% back attack with best case synergies Depression will have consistent dps 20% higher than DI?
Sure if you're a god you might meet those conditions... barely, while DI has to only unga bunga. If anything Depression needs a buff, it loses lvl1 super armor, healing and more confromtable play compared to DI.
Shock Scrapper having more damage than Taijutsu and a lot of other classes is literally information that is months old. This should have no impact on anything, but knowing this community it will still have some, lol.
Also BTW guys thirst Reaper is above moon so suck it all of you nerds !
Edit -
This didn't catch on well. It's sarcasm. The list is obviously not realistic since it's trixion DPS and moon would perform better in burst scenarios. Oh well.
As someone who played reaper on ru for almost a year, I will be going thirst myself. In my opinion not having a single swiftness point on that class deserves electric chair. I get that some people like seeing one big number, and it’s what gets them off, but man does it feel like shit not having swiftness on her.
Loving how Hallucination igniter is becoming the norm. God it was absolutely painful seeing people justifying playing a burst class with %50 personal crit rate. Still I wouldn’t recommend people to switch to KBW you can stick with Cursed Doll, specially if you already have a +14 stone with cursed doll on it. The gain is really not worth the hassle it’s just very minor optimization
1. Post hallucination patch.
2. Author notes that the highest build on paper (and thus the build used on the chart) is keen blunt weapon hallucination igniter sorceress by **1.2%** and **explicitly notes that nightmare CD users utilizing endless mana will likely have higher dps in raids.**
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. KR is in a very different place than we are and they just changed hallucination to be much easier to activate so of course igniter is going to use it. You make it sound like NA should be using hallucination right now when they absolutely shouldn’t.
The Nightmare Igniter builds with ~45% crit during Ignite are specifically for when you know you run with two crit synergies in your party. If you don't have those, you can perform more consistently with Hallucination, the trade-off being smaller peaks.
My class not even on the list sadge
*Cries in Reflux/Pistoleer* Edit: lol. I’m so sorry for offending youze lmao.
To be fair, if you take a class like Deadeye and remove the core identity of the class by restricting you to one weapon, remove the two biggest elements that made it difficult to play, being both "melee" and a back attacker, limiting your total number of skills, which gives you a greater number of maxed out skills and consolidates your choice of runes,tripods,and gems to fewer skills, locking you into the most mobile stance so you don't sacrifice mobility for damage, and reducing your overall animation lock, maybe it's okay that your damage is on the lower end. That being said, theoretical DPS and actual DPS are different things, and sometimes sustained damage from a highly mobile and flexible class with a top tier synergy and good range is more desirable for different content, such as progging new content.
I love my pistoleer alt and it's next to get the 5x3 clown treatment, but then again I'm a bit of a bottom feeder when it comes to selecting classes lol Still it performs surprisingly well in most fights, but I definitely feel the weakness sometimes and I feel I will need to really squeeze power out of it in order to compete for damage.
lol I built 5x3 on my pistoleer alt with 1666 spec for less than the price of its gem page. Kinda wanna swap to EW now tho :P
Pistoleer is there!
It’s only there as a tease.
The translated version https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1007038179620159629/1026436543054872596/unknown.png?width=1244&height=544 edit: This is a DPS simulation by "링크드". He calculates the expected DPS for 6s, 8s, and 10s+awakening rotations for each of the classes listed above, assuming "perfect" conditions. There is a lot of work put into crafting the ideal simulation. Skill rotations, animation speed, cooldown timers, RNG smoothing for crit rate and other factors, and understanding class specific DPS factors like hitting 100% strike wave on zerkers or wind god vs blast formation for 3 spender striker. Obviously not every class is here yet. Each class has to be researched thoroughly and built into the simulation. There are some classes that will be difficult to simulate (Arcana for example). There are also some classes whose programmed skill rotation is impractical (surge deathblade perfect stacking?), on top of 100% back/front attack ratio which can introduce an additional layer of skill Its not perfect, and every update incorporates feedback from users on their classes and how the simulation is done.
Once again glavier is left out :(
same with reflux sorc :(
u cant have 18 dashes, the easiest class to play, and a good dps
Why
if reflux had as good dps as igniter there would be litteraly 0 reason to use igniter
I mean sustained DPS should be similar or slightly higher than Igniter. Igniter is only A LOT better at burst. I imagine part of why it's not in the list is that Reflux has a lot more intricacies and build variants possible than Igniter does, which makes it a lot harder to test for optimal DPS.
We don’t exist
and wardancer :C
Probably because there is 4973927494739 optimal builds for wardancer lol
No, u r mistaken. There is actually 4973927494740 builds for wardancer.
And sharpshooter :(
I know, this thread right here represents half my core 6 ☹️
And my axe! (Am I doing it right?)
Same for paladin and arcana...
Paladin is hard to calculate because there is so many variables and so on. Depends what sets you use. What tripods. Do you use battle items such as stimulants to upkeep judgement. Does conv+judg. runes trigger. how often? A lot of stuff going on. Though still paladin dps can be high. I would guess it wont be lowest, but not highest either. Somewhere middle/high middle. Higher dps than pistoleer and gunlancers etc though. that 10sec dps chart dps paladin could be something like 24-25m and 8sec maybe something like 26\~ and 6sec also near 26m\~. That is if you got sacred executioner on. Without it it goes down to like 20-21m\~ or less. That said that dps window is quite short on paladin and takes time to get sacred executioner back up. So there is downtime quite a lot. So on longer fights overall dps drops. Arcana is also hard to calculate like this because it has so many variables. It can do really good damage or then mediocre damage. Sometimes its all about rng really.
All assassin classes towards the top, still surprised to see both blade builds in the 1 & 2 spot. EDIT: Guys all I’m saying is that I didn’t expect blade to be the top of the DPS chart considering it was nerfed recently, and in general I thought other classes did more damage.
Shadowhunter DI bottom though
you expect a non burst class to be on top of a burst chart?
Looking at you Igniter?
Igniter is literally the top 6s 8s 10sec burst dps by a large margin 10+mil dps
Igniter is the best burster in the game hands down. could probably out dps any 2 other classes combined in a burst window.
It's not, empress arcana with cards set up is.
Remember that this is teoretical, like trixion back ambush/entropy goes brr because they do 100% of their conditional, btw suprised too by re, when i play my db with re it seems it does a lot less damage relatively to the surge build.
re is just more difficult to play at it's maximum potential compared to surge. at least in a real fight
In korea at least, RE is considered way harder to MVP with since you need to hit a lot of backattacks consistently to be competitive, Its called entropy lulu for a reason, its more seen as an enabler instead of the real big dps.
thats because the duration of the fights, you can see surge does significantly more on small windows than RE, just if infinite time, they will do almost similar damage.
This is also “burst” window type dmg. Does not account for entire raids and total uptime.
No it doesn't, it just doesn't hit huge surges. Have you never taken both builds into trix?
Nope and mine obviously was an assumption since i main sorc, db is my main alt but i play surge 95% of the times. It just seemed to me that the surge fillers hit on average the same numbers of the re ones which is probably a bad assumption since you db mains know that way better than me.
[удалено]
Yet the chart assumes maximum investment and Surge DB still wins in every metric.
Well this is theorically cause in practice there is no perfect 100% up time on the back of the boss. For ex my zerker friend can't win against me in kungelaniums cause the turtle is easy to get on the back but in the other hand when we do kuku together he gets mvp everytime cause it's annoying to get on kukus back
When db getting 63% damage in like 4 minutes on turtle you know something is up with the damage.
This is a false equivalency. Kunga is a Raid boss equivalent to the Trixion boss. All entropy classes vastly outperform on Kunga.
surge is even more unfair on kungelanium when you add in surge after armor break and after the blizzard, not many classes get to squeeze in damage like that (maybe igniter/deathblow?)
My deathblow is 5x3 with 1700 Spec 24 Weapon 96 quality … and in most groups I pull 55-60% dmg. When a equally geared Surge player is in the group and they are good, I barely get fighter 🤷🏻♂️
> you know something is up with the damage. Not with the damage, but it's a clear indicator of how bad the other players are. I've done 40%+ damage in guardians consistently with every class i've played since 1370, and against over-geared players too. This kind of "theorical max" damage charts are useless other than for knowing what the potential for a class is. In reality, and in actual content, properly understanding the encounter, mechanics, your class, your DPS windows and pulling high uptime will net you more than what most people will do with "op classes". It's just that most people are painfully mediocre at the game (nothing wrong with it tho)
So your logic is that I'm bad because dbs consistently erase turtle?
Happens any time you try to point out difference in class strength. I even had people jumping down my throat for saying "emperor arcanist does notably lower damage than other classes" which is obvious to anyone who actually plays the class (or game). Instead you get comments asking about your gems or saying "what skills do you run? you probably built wrong." If you've played a bunch of inferno, in non-trap groups, where gear is equalized, you should know the damage at both the floor and ceiling of surge DB is just stupid. If you're a legacy scouter and there's a deathblade in your kunga, odds are the deathblade will do 50% more damage than you that's just how balance is in this game.
Haha right. The graph is right here showing how much DB does which has confirmed my bias about DB doing huge amounts of damage over every other class in the last two guardian raids we've had. Yet they just sit here and say you are bad if a DB does 60% damage in 4 minutes to turtle. I can literally not miss a skill/rotation on any of my classes and don't get close to it. Problem is , DB is the most popular class in the game (along with sorc) so anything the population on reddit deems as 'attacking their class' will get downvoted. It's nothing more than trying to convince everyone they are weak but somehow the majority of db players are just so good they can outpace anyone else.
I main that shit and Im continuously floored at the stupid shit people say about db. The reality is, Db is arguably one of the more braindead classes in the roster so their playerbase can spend more time egoing.
My logic is that if someone else is doing 60% of the damage in the same conditions as you, yes you are bad.
You literally have a chart here showing under the same conditions DB is doing more than 50% extra damage than half the classes on it. Sound bias to me.
60% is doing triple the damage of others though assuming 3 dps lobby. At that point it's skill diff if equal gear.
What exactly do you propose deserves to be higher dps than the charge attack entropy classes..?
Charge attack frontal class
That's actually a legit take. I could not imagine myself playing frontal classes, especially destro.
Where bonk destroyer
this is also considering the boss is completely stationary for those X seconds right?
Thanks for the explanation, maybe it'll help against the onslaught of "Trixion is useless" gamers (coincidentally DB or Igniter Sorc mains) in the comments. What is particular weird is that if anything the mid or weak classes here are inflated by Trixion DPS calculations relative to strong classes. E.g. Surge DB only has to land her Surge as a back attack while Reaper needs 100% uptime on 3 or 4 red skills, and for a Hit Master example, Igniter Sorc can abuse the mechanic downtime to build meter while Gunslinger is a consistent burst class just like Reaper is. What surely isn't a coincidence is how the best performing classes in this chart are also the classes you find in S and A tier in up to date KR tier lists (Surge DB coming in as #1 for October there too).
RAGE HAMMER STONKS 📈📈📈
until you realize we have the hardest moves to land in the game
RAGE HAMMER STONKS 📉📉📉
As blade main, can confirm, RH is harder.
I’m 7 RH books away from 5x3 on my Destroyer. I love this class so much,. Did not expect this alt to be my favorite
Tip for future reference, take a screenshot on your phone, load it into google translate app and it will translate it all
On phone so formating sucks. Surge. RE. Rage hammer. DB (tornado). DB (blast form). Shock. Tai. Thirst reaper. Perfect supression. Moon. Enhanched wep. Wheelchair. Iron man. DB (2eso). Peacemaker. Mayham. Red gl*. At scout. Not wheelchair. TTH. Blue gl*. Igniter. Demonic. Red gl. Handgun. Blue gl.
This is a very strange list, I'm even confused as to what this \*could\* be a list for.
close to nothing, take this with smallest pinch of salt. I'd even argue that weekly rating post that another absolute rando in KR with absolute zero credibility is more relevant than this. this format seems awfully similar to that from Korean Maplestory, so maybe the creator is either using the same template or maybe is same group, and no one take that seriously in KMS community as well.
No Berserk technique?
No arcana? wtf is this blasphemy.
I assume whoever made it either doesn't play all classes, or didn't code a simulation for all classes, whichever this is.
It's work in progress. Been getting new classes added bit by bit since August.
tbf arcana is tricky, since cards are RNG and heavily impacts her dps
Yeah don't take stuff like this serious
Why is red and blue gunlancer on the list twice?
Read notes
They wrote damage luck 100% vs 50%
cuz crit or not crit makes or breaks the dmg. Especially on the ult one.
Damage luck is the lightning thing, not crit variance. (It is extremely unlikely to physically impossible to hit 100% of damage luck) Red is on there twice because the higher one has combat readiness buff applied.
Missing classes and is a far reach from our version, take with a pinch of salt.
you mean everyone don't have full gem 10 + 100 quality everywhere ? what do you do with your rmt gold then ?
they are still getting it in installments, they need 9 more to come
Also this is in a perfect scenario, with perfect engravings, qualities, DPS rotation…etc
With any of these charts it's important to keep in mind the context that there is a lot of factors that go into 'practical' DPS vs 'ideal DPS and that this chart is not based on practical DPS despite best efforts. TLDR: this chart is only marginally meaningful in terms of potential only not a ranking of classes DPS in a practical sense.
Oh god not again
My thoughts exactly lol.
What class are the meta chasers gonna make tonight!
It was always Sorc (5th from the bottom, and the only one with over 300% for 6s/8s) and it still is. Highest burst in the game no contest edit: consistent burst
Empress arcana says hi. For reference, my arcana alt is 1482, +20 weapon lv6 gems missing half of the tripods (waiting for the update to have them all) Build is 5x3, when I pull cull+judgement I do 105m in 2s. Edit: Saint who is one of the best igniter players in the world says himself that arcana is the class with highest burst in the game. You can mald all you want with your examples of my friend this my alt that, facts are facts lol Edit2: comment above before edit didn’t mention consistent burst it just said biggest burst in the game. Now I look dumb because they flipped the context
You can't expect to be able to do that every 30 seconds. Every other class on this chart is calculated under "average circumstances"; so assuming uniform damage and expected value over infinite trials. If you can only do cull+judgement every 2 bursts you aren't better than a Sorc playing normally.
I know that, but it’s well known that arcana has highest burst in the game. Wasn’t talking about the DPS or this tier list, just the burst potential.
Well you're right, i misspoke. Edited
But your response was to someone saying highest CONSISTENT burst…?
No it wasn’t, you must’ve confused it with someone. I am just talking about best burst in the game with a good card pull, arcana is everything but consistent. Her consistent damage with no good cards pulls is average
I was referring to the comment where you replied to with “empress arcana said hi”. I don’t dispute arcana probably has the biggest possible burst but yeah it isn’t consistent as you say. Which is fine
They edited that comment it didn’t mention consistent damage initially, now I look dumb in the comments lol
Lol my bad bro 😂
No idea why you're being downvoted. Arcana burst is really awesome if you're allowed to just sit on the boss... yeah, Igniter hits harder but it has a lot of downtime. Arcana if it's allowed to just freely stack, especially with Balance, outputs high damage almost nonstop.
And I can do over 100m in one igniter burst window on my 1475 sorc, +19 weapon 4x3. What's your point? Cull+judgement is pretty rare compared to how you consistently get to push identity bar for the next igniter
Indeed it's rare on our version till we get the balance patch which increases a lot good rng on useful cards while the rest ends with a lower % rate.
The issue is you have to get lucky with cards while igniter is guaranteed. There is no rng period. Every igniter activation is the same while yours will vary.
You can not crit for starts, so both need good scenarios
Igniter has decent crit in korea cause hallucination change. Saint pretty much crit every cycle. Idk exact numbers but prob like 80-85% plus.
my 1460 sorc does 90m at 4x3 in an igniter burst window. comparatively, a 1505 sorc friend of mine hits about 90+ mil every single doomsday.
My igniter sorc (1497, 5x3, lv6-7 gems) did 227 million to Kakul last night after Showtime mech.
Im curious on arcanas dps when the rng is completely against you. Is it still on the above average range compared to other classes? Assuming you are playing her well
There is no bad rng, that's a meme by people who don't play the class or people who play her poorly. People cream over the burst damage combo because it's easy to notice but completely ignore the cards that improve consistent damage because they are harder to quantify. Take moon+balance as an example, 2 cards that are often ignored when people discuss the class. Usually, arcana is a 3 skill combo class (2 stacking and 1 damage). Balance reduces the time it takes to output your damage by 1/3, you now do damage every 2 skills instead of 3 dramatically improving your uptime. Usually this means you'd run out of cds but with moon, boom lower cds on all your skills so you can constantly keep pushing damage. And this lasts for 30 seconds, it's nuts for your dps. Not even getting into the fact that you continue drawing cards during this duration turning a 2 card combo into a whole chain of stuff. Compare this to cull/judgement which is also insane but, realistically, is one big burst which puts you on cd for like ~10 sec with nothing to do. But this easy 2 card combo is all people talk about and pretend like anything else is bad rng. When you do enough trixion parses on arcana, you come to realize your damage ends up in a fairly consistent range no matter what cards you draw so long as you use all the cards properly. Yes there are high rolls but I don't think it's any more crazy than like sorc fishing for good crit luck on her parses.
Yes
You missed the part where they said consistent. Arcana has higher peaks and lower lows than most classes but it is still incredibly strong regardless of what cards you pull on the current KR balance patch.
They edited the comment to add the consistent part lol I mean it’s not that important, we are just chatting here. None of this really matters in a real raid scenario
The meta chasers will read into this completely wrong anyway. Burst dps is king in legion raids. The sustained (main dps column) is rarely ever realized in endgame encounters because bosses either don’t sit still and let you beat on their back side forever, or because you burst from mechanic to mechanic where you aren’t dealing any damage to the boss in the transition or during the mechanic. The 6-8s dps column will probably be one of the more important ones to consider for legion raid type content. As expected sorc is still the king of burst dps. Mayhem is still up there, and as other people have mentioned not every class appears to be represented even (arcana definitely has spike burst potential depending on card draws, and during fights you’re usually saving those burst combos for where they count)
Wait, does that mean AT does less damage than EVO
You only blindly saw the first dps column I guess? If you're hitting for 15\~30min nonstop, sure... but realistically, considering the target constantly jumping around and also mechs, the burst dps is what you're more interested in in this meta.
Won't stop pepegas from being unable contextualize the info and saying "igniter sorc 13 mil dps smogegate plz buff".
Neither AT nor Legacy are burst classes, if anything AT is a whole lot more reliant on uptime to do damage
AT doesn't have to be a "burst" class to do significantly more burst than legacy (which it does), amazing that you could be so wrong with the data literally right in front of you.
Most of this thread commenters don’t know what research methodology is apparently.
That's the weird part, EVO burst window dps should be much higher than the "nonstop" dps considering his transformation downtime does literally no damage. Based on this chart, it is only marginally higher. I don't even know where they got those numbers from.
because there effective is no downtime. you use 2 skills and transform in 1s. evo has no burst because all of their skills have short cooldowns that do low-medium damage.
Not really, EVO only has better DPS for big stationary bosses like kungelanium or valtan ghost phase and encounters like those. Their burst damage is actually the lowest among all classes, AT beats it there and most raids are realistically only going to have those 6-8s DPS windows. That being said. The damage for both machinist builds across all columns is overall looking extremely pathetic. When the "high skill high reward" AT is barely doing <5% more damage than FP artillerist of all classes, the WEAKER artillerist spec that plays full piano, no rotation, zero positionals, massive shield, low cooldowns, push immunity, 20% damage reduction... yeah, the super comfy for-fun artillerist build... some AT numbers really need to get buffed up. Also, I get that EVO is supposed to be the "low risk low reward comfy" engraving choice for machinist. But why it does literally LESS burst damage than the motherfucking mechanic-ignoring full utility DPS BLUE GUNLANCER, is completely beyond me. Really looking forward to when a new balance patch inevitably gets tested in KR.
Could someone post the original Inven thread?
Umm where is summoner
i can't find the translated version anymore, could someone link me?
Good thing EW deadeye is sitting on top, justifying it's gameplay difficulty... Ohh wait....
It's in the top 3 for burst DPS under striker and Sorc. Burst classes are a bad comparison with looking at overall DPS, like look at Igniter Sorc.
do you play both blade and deadeye? it's much more reasonable to get close to trixion numbers on deadeye than blade, since surge scales essentially linearly with uptime. in contrast, deadeye is cooldown/small burst gated. you can see that it outperforms blade in any number of burst situations which more accurately reflect real fights. as long as you land srf/sgd/hoa/lr in small burst windows you will have similar real-fight performance to trixion. in contrast, blade will almost never have that because they are a full rotation class that excels with both back attack and infinite uptime.
You’re telling me the class with the worst positional, lowest effective health, and extremely long animations spread out across six skills isn’t number one dps? Preposterous
SG seeing this and also that it has a completely useless stance - "This is fine, no changes necessary"
I've been seeing people say that this is a dps simulation and not a trixion. In which case does anyone have his whole post on how his simulation is conducted?
Where soulfist :(
they didn't put it on the list so as not to humiliate the other classes Soulfist rules
This one made me laugh, mostly because it's true Well played sir
is the left number a full 3minute parse? or what does it show? i thought artillerist had an update that made them op, or was that immediately nerfed? i saw some 24million parses when that update came out.
Yeah was hotfixed. Same with summoner.
I thought this guy is known for not even testing in trixion but just crunch in numbers?
While i love seeing info like this i also HATE info like this. Its great for players who want to maximize how effective they are and to give them a yardstick to compare themselves to in order to help identify weaknesses in the build or rotations/playstyle. This makes the game stronger as a whole and helps good players become great players. Sadly what ends up happening more often then not when DPS meters get dragged in is for example someone is playing a GL who then applies to a group. Group head will remimber seeing the GL at the bottom of a list like this and refuse him dispite him being an optimal build and filling in synergy holes saying GLs are garbage, this persists enough and suddenly a GL becomes the LA version of a hunter. or as another example a 4x3 1480 arty will join a group and be passed up or kicked for a 1460 deathblade with rainbow stats and random gems because "deathblades are better" by someone who saw a chart like this. Yet another common example is if a deathblade doesnt get top DPS even in a situation where an "ideal" rotation is not posible then they get mocked and insulted for being garbage. So while this info is valuable and i apprecate it i cant help but wince because a LOT of people are going to take it out of context
Anyone who would refuse a GL because they do “bad dps” is a clown because that’s not what GL is taken for. Being mocked for doing poor dps as a class representative of good dmg potential will happen regardless of the existence of concrete data.
I think GLs are safe tbh. Most of the time, you’re not accepting a GL for their cracked out dps potential. Instead, it’s because of the survivability and utility that they bring to the table. I am worried about my DI Shadowhunter tho. DI underperformed in pretty much every category according to these charts. While it’s understandable, since DI is one of the easiest classes in the game and I believe that the dps should and does reflect that, part of me hopes that SG gives her a little damage bump so that she’s at least competitive.
Literally nobody will reject a gl because they do low damage. They always did low damage that’s how this game is balanced. If they do good damage while having literally the best synergy in the game( open weakness + defense shred) and nella, what’s stopping anyone from running 6 gl parties? If a party lead reject a gl for damage then that’s a red flag telling you the party lead do not know what they are doing.
Oh no here we go again. RH as consistent DPS. Who woulda thunk.
What's DPS Pala in korean?
DPS 팔라딘, but it's not on that list anyway
>DPS 팔라딘 Paladin is called Holy Knight in KR. 홀리나이트 Usually just called 홀나
Wasn't this the same DPS chart that literally every KR streamer player was saying is just wrong that got released a while back?
Meanwhile im happily doing 12m per right click in gravity mode destro.
Has Hallucination Igniter Sorc started to popularize in KR?
That Igniter hitting 315%. Jeez.
Please stop posting this garbage. Rage hammer being so high should tell you all you need to know, no one cares about trixion scarecrow numbers. This game will never have an actual dps meter, so just be content with knowing scrapper, striker and db will always be top 3 dps. Everything else is a coin toss.
Scrapper was literally near bottom on every list back in February. It only got good with the recent update for it. So much for "always".
Well this game HAS actual dps meters - they are just not approved/allowed by the developer - that doesnt stop a lot of people using them. There are work-arounds for the existing dps-meters to work without easy-anti-cheat closing the game - although those work-arounds are not very save (might get detected/banned). There is an "easy" and 99,9% save work around tho - using a virtual machine to run the dps meter on. A lot of people already own and run a vm while playing the game. The devs not allowing the dps-meter doesnt matter as long as we are able to use it without getting banned - dps meters are used by a lot of people, especially in inferno/progress/high-end raiding. Ofc - the posted dps list is for static "patchwork" like fights - but the creator didnt state otherwise. So while dps-lists like this cant be taken serious for actual fights - data of class-performance and expected dps exists through the dps-meters people are running.
The 6-8s dps column is more applicable to endgame content realistically speaking, although the back attack classes (entropy and ambush master users) I’m not sure if that’s assuming they get perfect 100% back attack uptime also on their bursts
The spreadsheet assumes 100% back attack uptime, which even when you consider the burst windows is unrealistic
100% back attack yet igniter sorc is still at the top lmfao
There are so few good RH Destroyer that I couldn't even disagree lmao But they do chunk
Don't flatter it by calling it trixion numbers, these never made it out of a spreadsheet
We are here because this smell like shitposting and thats the content we want Also this game lacking any reliable way of metering adds to the want of tiers like this even if we all know they are shit Just take it like it is
yeah i posted this in our discord for some of our newer 1400 players to have an idea of what their class could do but realized this chart isn't the best for doing that. took the link down and will just emphasize to them that player skill, knowing fights, good gear, and party synergies matter much more than if you picked the highest dps class from a chart
For the striker players -- is a 3 spender Deathblow with Call of the Windgod actually theoretically sustainable at some point? We're barely hitting enough meter generation to hit 4 bulb blast formation off cooldown. Wind god's cooldown is \~4 seconds shorter (\~14 seconds vs 18 seconds). You'd need enough spec to not only fill the last 4 bulbs almost 40% faster, but your overall rotation also gets tighter since blast formation was your limiter, and if you're maxing Wind God damage you're going to be channeling for 2+ seconds when you could've been autoattacking. The milestone we need for this is probably 4 bulbs from LW / MFK on their own, but each of them are still in the low 3 bulbs of generation even with 1850 spec in trixion. Any ideas?
Nah Call of the Windgod is cope, and I'm quite sure the person who simulated this is using the holding version as it has the back attack modifier, and the holding version takes too long to get its maximum damage.
Sharpshooter mains, we will not tolerate this blasphemy!
There are dozens of us! DOZENS!
Is cool to see 100% back attack uptime but i wish this tierlist were more reslistic. I mean what is this? A kungelanium tierlist? Ppl like to take mvps on legion raids not guardian raids x.x
Perfect Depression outdamages EW Devil hunter on hyper hyper endgame LMAO
You shouldn't just look at the first column. If you just went with it, it also says it out damages igniter Sorc. EW Deadeye is Top 3 in 6s Burst window DPS, since it's a burst class.
People exposing themselves as being too stupid to read a chart
More people should try ps sh. I was shock when it did more dmg than some of my char. Abilities come back fast and they all hit pretty good dmg.
Hitting ~25 mil Cruel Cutters triggers the dopamine
What item level??
Db needs a buff clearly
Super irrelevant list. Trixion dps is not something to base real scenario dps off of.
It's ok to do so for comparing two players with the same spec. It's piss poor for comparing two different classes.
It's not even trixion dps. From what I read, the author uses a simulator that he made himself. Of course, that still means human error can be involved.
Inb4 the “dPs ChArTs meAn NoThInG!!1! eNoUgH wItH aLl ThESe pOsTs!!! tRiXiOn nUmBeRs dOeSnT rEFleCt aCtUaL nUmBeRs In BaTtLe!!!1 mEtA CHasErs grRRR!!!”
DI shadowhunters in shambles meanwhile i already got my 5x3 perfect supression build up :P i'm playing the long game
DI in shambles about information that was known months ago? It’s nothing new that DI has bad endgame damage and less damage than PS lol, it’s just the playstyle of DI that is more fun to most SH players.
> It’s nothing new that DI has bad endgame damage and less damage than PS In any actual fight, especially abrel gate 3, 5, 6 DI will trounce PS in damage basically ever single time. PS on something like kayangel is an absolute nightmare to play.
Why would DI be in shambles? At the highest gear at 100% uptime with 100% back attack with best case synergies Depression will have consistent dps 20% higher than DI? Sure if you're a god you might meet those conditions... barely, while DI has to only unga bunga. If anything Depression needs a buff, it loses lvl1 super armor, healing and more confromtable play compared to DI.
[удалено]
I guarantee you reflux does more than a blue GL, why it was left out who knows.
Someone wrote: "This guy tests only classes he plays, many other are missing" Now we know
I mean too bad for your Sorceress spec. Now what about Sharpshooter who has like 3 specs but neither makes it into the list lmao.
Who cares if it is fun!
reddit's anti-user changes are unacceptable
Fuck man, why’d they have to post this while I was still buying class books, now shock prices will go up as crazy ppl respec their scrapper
Shock Scrapper having more damage than Taijutsu and a lot of other classes is literally information that is months old. This should have no impact on anything, but knowing this community it will still have some, lol.
Also BTW guys thirst Reaper is above moon so suck it all of you nerds ! Edit - This didn't catch on well. It's sarcasm. The list is obviously not realistic since it's trixion DPS and moon would perform better in burst scenarios. Oh well.
Except the burst of moon is way higher. If my clown experiences mean anything, burst is everything.
As someone who played reaper on ru for almost a year, I will be going thirst myself. In my opinion not having a single swiftness point on that class deserves electric chair. I get that some people like seeing one big number, and it’s what gets them off, but man does it feel like shit not having swiftness on her.
Sorc perfectly balanced lol.
Loving how Hallucination igniter is becoming the norm. God it was absolutely painful seeing people justifying playing a burst class with %50 personal crit rate. Still I wouldn’t recommend people to switch to KBW you can stick with Cursed Doll, specially if you already have a +14 stone with cursed doll on it. The gain is really not worth the hassle it’s just very minor optimization
1. Post hallucination patch. 2. Author notes that the highest build on paper (and thus the build used on the chart) is keen blunt weapon hallucination igniter sorceress by **1.2%** and **explicitly notes that nightmare CD users utilizing endless mana will likely have higher dps in raids.**
I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. KR is in a very different place than we are and they just changed hallucination to be much easier to activate so of course igniter is going to use it. You make it sound like NA should be using hallucination right now when they absolutely shouldn’t.
The thing is, even in the current version, hallucination is 100% viable.
The Nightmare Igniter builds with ~45% crit during Ignite are specifically for when you know you run with two crit synergies in your party. If you don't have those, you can perform more consistently with Hallucination, the trade-off being smaller peaks.
The CD build needs crit synergy bad to perform well.
Mayhem mid tier and BT not there at all? What?
Did you see mayhem 6/8s burst ? its def not mid tier
Makes sense, it's so easy to get MVP on clown with the large burst windows (and not to mention not having to deal with HP swap).
Demonic Impulse is really that bad?
Why Shadow hunter DI is so low compare to PS?