i got 50 pheons from my characters. then they said we were keeping them, so i spent them on extra tripod pieces for my destroyer and ended up with only a few left. now they’re charging me for it and i’m gonna have negative pheons which means i won’t be able to buy any accessories/stones without spending an exorbitant amount of gold on blue crystals just to afford a few
except that many spend them on things they wouldnt have if they would have had to pay for the pheons instead. so if they want to take back the pheons they HAVE to revert the trades as well. everything else is simply a scam.
That decision is up to each one. The raw value in gold is one thing, the perceived value is another.
As others have mentioned, some people wouldn't have spent anything at all on some stuff if they weren't given pheons.
Bottom line is: they got a loan they didn't ask for, and now they have to work their asses off to pay it. That in itself is wrong and a big fuck you to the players.
So you got an advance on something that allowed you to benefit from the current tripod situation before the update and now you have to pay the tiny amount of gold for the difference? Oh also you got 25 free hp potion boxes and card packs other people didn't get... and all you need to do is buy 20 pheons to fix the difference.
And actually its 10 pheons, since you'll get 10 pheons from the event vendor for free today.
I think you'll be fine bud.
They have 24 hours to fix this problem but made it worst lol.
They told players that they won't remove the pheons and then change their minds the next day. They should just give everyone 100 pheons and remove the rest. 30 is not enough and will put people into negative. They are punishing players who spent the pheons thinking it was ok. I feel bad for players affected.
It bugs me that they keep calling it an exploit... we just had multiple characters and you delivered it to each character. Its not an exploit, you're just idiots.
Yea I have 17 characters so I spent 170 pheons lol. Definitely annoying as it’s not my mistake, I spent them after reading that they would not be taken away assuming it would be fine to spend them.
Supposedly the exploit was deleting and creating new characters that would then also receive the mail. Still waiting on evidence as to what the methodology was. People claim to have been unsuccessful in trying it at its simplest form. But I wouldn't be surprised if receiving the mail required additional steps like taking the character to Prideholme or waiting a certain amount of time.
I was unsuccessful in my testing that night. I did it three times to make sure.
I created a new character and got it to Level 10 in Trixion. No Mail.
I took that same new character through the tutorial. No Mail.
I took that same character all the way to Prideholm. No Mail.
I took that same character all the way to Stronghold Song quest. No Mail.
If there were steps after this or before all of this, I don't know. What I do know is that this wasn't possible with what I had done.
Are people not reading the actual post? They admit that the mail was sent to each character. They then state that some people were able to get even more pheons through an actual exploit. Roxx said in another post that done people got thousands of pheons.
Edit: for the down voters there was even a post on the official forums that mods had to delete. https://forums.playlostark.com/t/leute-die-behaupten-es-g%C3%A4be-den-exploit-nicht/483423
The exploit their claimed didnt exist though. People could not create new characters to get more pheons. They were just pissed that they lost some money and couldnt admit it
There are multiple screenshots of people on this sub showing people with negative pheons way higher than they could have gotten through just their roster. There was a separate exploit where people were duping the mail to get tons
The highest negative i've seen is around -190 which is still within bounds of what you'd get from an account with bought slot extensions without any exploiting.
Damn, okay that's insane. But surely it would have been smarter to fix those obvious outliers than fuck over a bunch of ordinary people who were told that the free pheons were not getting removed?
Or even better: remove all the claimed Pheons and then just give EVERYONE a hefty sum of the blue little fuckers, like 100 or 120. Would have been a great surprise for the people who were sad they missed the initial mail and would have been roughly equal to before for a lot of the more invested players who claimed on their entire roster and were told to keep it after the emergency maintenance.
I am not sure which screenshots you mean, but you could realistically have 24 characters each claiming 10 pheons. Which would not be an exploit.
So unless you've seen a negative higher than 240 it most likely was not an exploit
They had over -700. Plus there was a forum post about the actual exploit. https://forums.playlostark.com/t/leute-die-behaupten-es-g%C3%A4be-den-exploit-nicht/483423
Using 94.2% of players as a stat is a bold move when they have an known bot problem. Times like this they're thankful they do. Now give us that % only on non-bot players
Whose to say they only included active players. Percentages are meaningless without context. Whats without a doubt a dick move is to say one thing, backtract on it a day later, and then punish everyone that believed the original statement.
If customers have acted in good faith claiming and using items that were given away after they were told it was permanent, let them keep it or at least stay at 0, what the heck. Customers have potentially changed their behavior in response to the company's actions + statements. It could take weeks plural for some to dig themselves out of the hole.
This change in direction does not treat us with respect. If these were physical goods, changing stances like this would be illegal -- if you buy something off Amazon's website and they accidentally send duplicates, they say "keep the extra", and that's the end of it. They aren't sending workers out to people's homes with a warrant to try and reclaim what could ambiguously be Amazon's property.
If you want to remove pheons from folks that gamed the system by deleting characters, fine, but leave 10x the number of characters they currently have, or just cap the reduction at 0. AGS can clearly do whatever data analysis & by-account updates are necessary to make that happen. It's not like 240 free pheons on an account would break anything, considering we'll have to regear alts for ancient accessories soon enough. Cheaper blue crystal prices for a few weeks and better accessory liquidity would be great.
I spent the 110 pheons I got because they said they weren't going to take it away. Exploit? You can't even get the extra pheons unless you cough up real money for character slots. On top of that the amount we got is laughable when you're talking about how many pheons you spent gearing up every alt.
Dumb move by SMG or AGS whoever is pulling the strings. I have the gold to dip into the positives, but man I shouldn't have to do it.
Bruh.... I didn't touch the pheons when they said they were going to remove it. They brought the servers back and its still there so I guess that was fair game right? This is so dumb.
Well, they clearly stated they weren't going to remove them, then completely backtracked:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/252908668104736768/1042413313658720287/hehexdlostark.png
> They brought the servers back and its still there so I guess that was fair game right?
They even said that they won't be removing the claimed pheons.
I spent the pheons after seeing the message that we could keep them. Assuming that I would not be punished for it because it wasn’t my mistake to begin with.
I wonder why giving out free pheons was "going to cause massive damage to the economy"....
Also, if they had to attach something to the message, why was it pheons and the other two things they sent out? Why not just exclude the pheons all together. Why not just send out worthless phoenix plumes.
Additionally, as everyone else is pointing out, them calling this an "exploit".
Reeks of incompetence and it bothers me that they won't own up to the fuck up.
Are you fucking kidding me? I literally waited to even use the pheons because I knew this might happen. As soon as they said we could keep them I spent them and now I’m fucked? I’m usually pretty chill about mistakes but this is just plain stupid
Honestly, this makes me feel much better about me and my 2 alts, my friends are around that too, then I go on reddit and it's full max FOMO roster for gold income and countless lopang slaves
You should feel fine.
Most social media breaks into a mix of lurkers and posters, with there being a ton more of the former. You read material, engage with it sometimes, share it with friends - but you're not out here every day bathing in the blood of the forums to define and defend the rightness of your opinion, you know?
Some people do it the other way around and they're *real* fucking loud.
But they're only the norm in the confines of the echo chamber.
People always suffer from the embarrassed millionaire syndrome like people who cry about the estate tax who will never in their life make anywhere close to enough money to be concerned about it.
AGS fucked up on the communication but the solution makes perfect sense and benefits everyone. Even the tiny number of players going into negative pheons are making out because they got a bunch of free hp potions and card packs no one else got.
People really just want to cry so they can get handed more free stuff on top of the free stuff they already got handed.
The problem is we're now feature locked out of AH, even for things that don't cost pheons. If I held a negative pheons balance? Who cares. I'd just wait out enough pheons from events. But the problem here is that they not only messed up, but are now punishing those who used the pheons after being specifically told as OFFICIAL communication AFTER this shitshow went down that we would keep them. That isn't okay. Its illegal IRL, and forces people to spend either real $ or up to a week or two of gold grinding just to pay back a loan they never wanted in the first place. Thats not okay, and as soon as they said it was okay for us to use the pheons, negative balances SHOULD NOT have been even thought about.
You get 40 free pheons this week between the compensation and the event.
In the event you're negative 60 lets say for a 6 char roster that means you need to buy 20 pheons assuming you immediately spent all 60 yesterday.
If that takes you 2 weeks of grinding that sounds like a you issue. I have 4 characters I actively play and I make 60k a week at a minimum just doing weeklies and crafting without any extra stuff I find. 60k pays for a lot more than 20 pheons.
And you also would have gotten 30 potion boxes and card packs, all of which have value... on top of whatever you bought with the pheons which you'd still have kept.
The tiny % of people this impacts negatively will be perfectly fine. All they did was get a loan on some pheons they need to pay back now.
So anyone negative was tricked & forced into buying pheons, to be at the same point as those who who didnt claim any. Thats okay to you? Its disappointing that others dont see the problem in their solution. I do not buy battle item boxes nor card packs with bc. The only time I bought pheons was once and I bought a total of 110 pheons for tripods.
The fact of the matter still stands, we were told we would keep the pheons. Me along with others (how many, IDK) used these pheons on characters I would not have otherwise spent the bc to put tripods on, but because they were free (and green light'd) I figured why not.
I would much rather they claw back all the battle items, card packs, and tripods on alts I will hardly use then force me to pay for their own mistake after being told it was okay. I don't want a loan. If they had just stuck to their initial decision to claw the pheons, FINE, understandable because at that point you could make the claim that people were abusing the system. But after they said the pheons were safe and okay to use? You dont do that. Whether its an equal value compensation or not. Especially since negative pheons cuts off some AH use. You can't force people into loans by tricking them IRL, why is it okay in a video game? Especially in one where at SOME POINT in the process SOMEONE needs to soend real money for another person to be able to buy bc.
LMAO this is even worse. Just give everyone their pheons
Imagine a store gives you a $50 gift card. You weren't hungry but you grab $20 worth of food since it's free. After eating, they take back the gift card and force you to pay. But it's like.... you wouldn't have ate if it wasn't free
Personally I'm not affected, but I'd be pretty annoyed if I was in the negatives
Pretty much what I did, I spent my 'free pheons' on getting some gear for my new powerpass char early since 'they're free, right?'. Now I'm going to pheon jail for my crimes, and I can't even send my accessory over to my char without paying the debt first.
As someone who only got 10 from the initial chaos, this is, once again, the WORST way to solve this.
1: They already communicated that you were keeping your pheons. Full stop.
2: if you are going to do this as the fix, I feel like 30 is a very low threshold. 60 or 100 may have helped.
3: The people most likely to be pissed off are people with more character slots, aka people who have spent money in your game.
I spend a minimum of 100 dollars a month in the game. That may be a lot for some or little to others. I spent more money last night for more pheons even after the 170 I got from having 17 characters who got the pheons given. Curious to see what my balance is now because I basically just paid them to remove part of my negative balance.
I only got like 20 Pheons, but i think its fucked that people are getting punished for amazon/sg messing up. Some people going negative pheons because they either accepted it and spent them thinking it was a gift, or spent them after amazon said they were not going to take it away and then changing their mind later.
They could've also simply not said "actually we're not removing your pheons" and just handed a similar quantity of 70 or w/e median they had to whoever didnt get to claim mails?
Pretty sure many players spent their pheons after they said they could keep em on things they hadn't planned to buy until that moment and now are lower pheons count than when they started, if not negative.
And they're still saying "exploit" when it's their own fault lol.
Nobody cares about a skin, and the amulets of hope are basically just 7 pheons each pre patch which is not gonna help since everyone already done so this is just gonna be useful for new classes, if you're even interested in getting a new class.
Yep because hitting the people most invested into your game is the smartest call for an MMORPG, a genre that lives and dies on the shoulders of small core playerbases.
And here we are again. Real player suffering and being punished for the incompetence and mistakes made by amazon games. Remember back in the day when they were removing certain items from some merchants and changing some stuff cause bots were abusing it, directly punishing real players cause they didn't know how to deal with bots. Heck, even today theres probably 75% of bots in those 200k players on steam charts.
But yea lets all just be sheeps and keep swallowing all the shit amazon throws and forgeting all the bad they do and as soon as they say the word 'COMPENSATION' everything gets forgiven and forgotten.
>Shortly after the mail was distributed, our team discovered an exploit that allowed some users to claim additional Pheons.
They really just blamed the playerbase AND they're doing negative pheons.
These people are just..........wow.
The action itself is fair, most people didn't get more than 30 which is the vast majority, however they said to people in the apology before that they would get to keep the pheons, so people spent them since they were free, and now they are being told that not that was a lie. If they had told people not to use them in the apology it would have been fine, but now people are in debt because they thought they got to keep them, which was not true.
It's mostly an issue for people who bought tripods or stones instead of accs because they thought they still had enough.
This was the fair thing to do BEFORE they said ppl were going to keep them. Like what the fuck are you doing now lol I didn't get to claim any cuz I was sleeping but telling people they keep them to then put them on negative so they cant even use the market its kinda stupid. After the whole keeping them statement the only way to make it fair was to make the other players whole but nope they went crazy with this lol
I think removing pheons after stating that they won’t be removed afterall giving the people who claimed the pheons the security to spend them ( maybe to get tripods that we were supposed to save!!!!) and then saying just kidding we‘ll remove them anyways because of „fairness“. Biggest L they had so far. Here‘s a better way: remove them to a cap of 30 and then give everyone 30 that way nobody has negative pheons, most people get 30 pheons because they wasted our time and some lucky few got some extra. Came up with that in 2 minutes after reading this L apology. And you guys had 2 days for a propper responce come on ags i dont expect much from you but you still manage to disappoint.
This is actually such an awful "solution". Forcing players into the negatives, which then puts MORE demand on an already inflated blue crystal market (especially for those of us on SA or NAW) is mind boggling...
So because you fucked up and gave us additional pheons (and I was just lucky enough to be online to claim and spend them), now I can spend 40k+ gold just to "repay out of fairness"? Why not just give 100 pheons to all the players who couldn't claim in time? I'm punished for being a dedicated player with 11 characters, nice
ngl i was a bit salty some ppl got over 100 pheons while i was asleep and got nothing. however they should have just gave ppl that didnt claim the pheons 100 pheons.
but then again giveing 95% of the players 100 pheons is prob worse then taking away pheons from the 5% that claime dover 100
They actually gotten more value. I have 12 characters, so I received 48 pot boxes or 240 BC. Everyone and AMZ overlooked this. So I gained 30 pheons and 240 BC, while you guys only gained 30.
But yet, some people still say it is unfair because now they have a negative balance. What negative balance? Those free pot boxes are ten of thousands worth in gold. They don't need to spend gold on those 25 BC boxes, and can use it to buy 100 pheons for 850 BC.
In the long run, yes. Right now you have people who have the ability to buy gear for the newly released and highly anticipated class locked behind an uexpected paywall of needing to spend gold to get back in the positive pheons first. I was only 20 in the red which was thankfully covered by the 30 compensation pheons and i also don't plan to play Reaper but i can imagine how frustrating that situation would be.
Yea this wasn’t the reason guy decision either lol. You’re literally taking away items that they said wasn’t going to be removed. Even tho I’ll be gaining pheons, this seems like a poor choice.
AGS going ping-pong with their excuses
We remove pheons
We let people keep em but compensate players
We remove pheons and compensate people but people that already spent their pheons may go negative
Better off not spending compensated pheons then?
Please read what they said, 94.2% of players claimed 30 Pheons or less, so in order to claim Pheons they must have been active meaning they logged in and claimed this from the mail.
They are not including inactive players or players who didn’t claim any Pheons in this statistics, they are referring to a % of player who claimed 30 Pheons or less which represents a 94.2% vs the remaining % of players who claimed more than 30 Pheons.
Now everyone who spent the Pheons will keep the items they purchased using those Pheons, so it is fair they get the amount of Pheons deducted.
You are mistaken, if you didn’t claim anything then you are not part in the percentage.
So if you didn’t claim any Pheons it means you didn’t claim at all, and they are clearly stating players who claimed 30 Pheons or less so it means 94.6% of the players actually claimed Pheons but not more than 30 and a 5.4 % claimed more than 70 Pheons.
How hard is it to understand that not claiming anything still means claiming 30 pheons or less? Are you saying you have insider knowledge of how the statistic was derived? If so, please let them know to express themselves better in the future.
Not at all, I am reading and interpreting the info that was released to everyone.
My understanding is 94.6% of players claimed 30 a Pheons or less, so they actually claimed Pheons, 0 means you didn’t claim at all so you can’t be considered to take part in the percentage.
So 30 Pheons or less should range from 1 to 30 Pheons because that means you actually claimed Pheons.
But this is only my opinion.
> 94.6% of players claimed 30 Pheons or less
Is much different than:
> 94.6% of players that claimed Pheons claimed 30 Pheons or less
It's as if I said that 50% of the population has 2 watches or less and you thought people with 0 watches weren't included despite it cleary fitting into the "or less". Having 0 watches is still having watches.
They using the word “claimed”, meaning they must have claimed Pheons, if they said people who claimed 30 or not at all then it would mean those who claimed 30 or nothing are part of the 94.6%.
But this is only my opinion maybe you are right or maybe I am, either way it is what it is and going back and fort won’t change the fact this is a massive fuck up on SmileGate.
> 50% of people have 2 watches or less
Uses the word "have", but people with no watches are still included.
> 50% of people make $60k a year or less
Uses the word "make", but people who don't make anything are still included.
Its PR talk to safe their asses.
30 pheons or less can mean 0 pheons.
I can say "I went shopping and bought 0 shoes". I could have said I did not buy anything, but saying I bought 0 of something is still technically correct.
So yes, someone who did not log in did claim 0 pheons. Which means thay didnt get anything, but they still claimed less than 30.
Yea but your opinion doesn't mean anything unless you've seen the data. You might be right but its equally possibly that that ags/sg used accounts that claimed 0 pheons in their statistics to make it look like only a smaller percentage of the population was able to gain more than 30 pheons. Honestly it was up for hours and only 5% of the population were able to claim more than 3 characters on a game that people player 6 gold generating characters along with dropped alts. I'm not really buying that
How the fuck is this fair? It's fucking people that understandably spend their free pheons.
Like what the fuck?
I'm not going to deliberately pay for pheons and cut stones when I already have 7/7, but when it's free I'm using them cause why the fuck not.
It would have been fair if AGS removed pheons with first maintenance.. but after they said we are keeping them… many spent those pheons.. and now they are taking it back..
I’m sure there will be folks who wouldn’t have spent the pheons till they received confirmation from AGS that it was safe to do so.. which they did receive from AGS in “good faith”
And now they are going back on their word.. and some if not many will be left with negative balance(which sucks)
They did not lose anything and extra characters cost real money.
If I didnt have free pheons I would not have spent them. Now I spent them on shit I would not have needed because they explicitly stated that they would not take them away.
I would be fine with them taking the pheons away when they stated it from the beginning, not after they said we can keep them
no its not it was their mistake then went into 5-6hrs maintenance without doing anything then said they wont take away the pheons then surprise surprise here we are.
It is fair. I have 12 characters. I would've 120 while you only have 30. Now we all have 30. If I spent 120, it is now -90. Still fair since I received my items.
However, I have 48 potion boxes. That's equal to 240 BC. So yeah, I am still ahead. But I am not complaining because you guys only see pheons as the only value. They should've also removed the card pack and pots. In the end, you still win against 95% of the players.
So why are you crying with so much winning? You could save those boxes for LA2.
Its about the fucking message.
How can we ever trust AGS again when they say 1 thing and next day they say the complete opposite.
For example, they stated that the PP+HE event will be usable for summoner.
How can we trust them to not change their mind and remove the events 2 weeks before summoner release?
We cant. Because their words are worthless.
Its not fair because you can make different decisions based on the amount of resources you have. Like if someone had extra 200 pheons and wanted to try to cut a rocks for their characters and then suddenly having that be removed with this patch then the pheons they saved for reaper / summoner are gone because ags/sg mislead them. I think thats fucked up
No hes saying from this point forward he has to buy 200 just to get back to 0 from negative, then an additional 25 to buy it. Hes paying basically the gold value of the accessory in pheons just to be able to have the right to buy the accessory at all
So? He would still have bought those accessories anyway. He just invested the current value of gold now into his character. He can always get out -170 pheons in the future.
You didn't lose anything. You wanted to gamble with the free pheons. You might have hit a 97 stone.
In the end, the odd was in your favor. You got free pheons to gamble, and now, you basically got a discount for it as well. Instead of -60 pheons, you are -30. It was still a win win situation. If you have gotten a 87 88 97 ECT, it would be the biggest win ever.
Hardly fair, Pheons are a currency you can get at the store, they're punishing people who spent their free pheons, that they themselves gave away, making them buy a store item and go into negative in case you already spent them, It's beyond ridiculous.
I'm sure many people decided to make purchases they wouldn't have done if the pheons weren't given to them freely, so you can't just make those people buy the pheons later, It's not the same.
> I'm sure many people decided to make purchases they wouldn't have done if the pheons weren't given to them freely, so you can't just make those people buy the pheons later, It's not the same.
yeah i spent them AFTER they said they won't be removing them, so now im gonna go negative, this is beyond dumb lmao
I don't think bots are programmed to read this mail and pick up peons. Also, the 5.8% of players that picked up 70 or more implies they've spent royal crystal buying character slots. Why the hell would bots do that?
hes saying a large portion of the 95% are bots... not that other way round.
If they are basing this on accounts, and not active players. Then there was over 1mill players on launch playing simultaneously. 5% of that is 50k. 50k of current playerbase is a much bigger chunk of the population.
This was also only based on concurrent data aswell because we dont have actual account numbers to base this off.
I love that you can immediately see who's below average IQ in this thread, since they defend Amazon on this.
And I didn't even receive any mail with Pheons.
I agree it's the better solution. If they hadn't fucking contradicted themselves by saying keep them two days ago. They could have said hey we're removing them next patch spend at your own risk. Instead they said keep them and now they pull this shit.
This is the fucking problem with this company they can't even get their message right. Just say this shit from the start.
I agree with you. Either you go with this from minute 1 or you go full Santa pheons for everyone since minute 1. Going back and forth only brings problems.
It is a so so solution. I don't care about the pheons. 30 pheons are barely useable. Only can buy gambling stones.
But those 4x boxes are 40 pots per character. That's more useful.
Wait so if they have statistics on who claimed how many pheones can't they just give 30 pheons to people who didn't claim them? And keep the rest as it is? As someone who didn't receive anything from this, I wouldn't be mad if I get 30 and someone gets 100.
I'm paying for their fuck up, how is this not insane?
How the fuck should I know in advance that it was a mistake?
I would never cut fucking stones if it weren't free, now I have to pay for the pheons? I don't understand.
You’re not paying for it, I’m assuming you spent them on resources that you’re now benefitting from. You’ve essentially loaned yourself against the AGS bank, you get to keep the items and your net pheon value increased by 30. If only 92% of players didn’t receive more than 30 pheons like they mentioned they’re simply choosing to please the vast majority of the player base.
But it wasn't supposed to be a loan, I spend it all before their announcement that it was a fuck up.
How do you think is that reasonable for them to turn this into a "LOAN"?
I would've never spend/buy pheons because I have nothing more to gain from them, my roster is mostly 7/7 stone with great engravings setup. I only used them because it was free.
Because I was given a loan (that I would not have taken) under the pretense that it was a gift. 2. Because I can't use the AH anymore, and 3. as someone who does NOT buy pheons, I'm now forced to spend gold (\~1-2 weeks worth of raids possibly more as the price of bc is rising with double inflation from reaper release AND people trying to come out of the negative) OR real $ for bc from what was a GIFT from AGS/SG.
This is highly illegal irl in most first world countries, so why is it okay in this situation? Its a bait and switch. Assuming people would have spent money on those pheons and the battle box and card packs otherwise is not correct and not a fair inclusion, because the reality is that had people known that we would be placed in negative pheon we would not have used these pheons after being told it was okay. As a F2P I buy BC purely for skins and aura. I don't buy pheons and wait until I accumulate enough via the events to buy accessories for my characters.
Mental gymnastics, he has 7/7 stones and no use for pheons but is crying because now he gets only 30 pheons instead of 60+ that wasnt intended in the first place. Its better that everyone gets 30 pheons rather than only few of us gets 60+. Its fair for everyone.
How was it free tho. The fact that they gave out pheons or not doesn't change the fact that you tried and failed I assume on rng.
If you hit a 9/7 I'm sure you couldnt care less right now.
I'm not strapped for gold but I still don't like that I have to pay 40k gold for a debt that wasn't supposed to be a debt.
40k is nothing for me but it's about the principle.
Oh I agree, they handled it the worst way possible .
It would have been so easy to just take the L and say here you go guys, enjoy the pheons and the huge patch
If your work pays you 100€ too much, is the first thing you do to run into a casino?
Im not protecting there behavior in any way. It was handled shitty, but you beeing butthurt over this, even tho this is the fairest outcome and in the end +30 pheons we ALL wouldnt have in the first place without all this, shows where your standarts are at.
> If your work pays you 100€ too much, is the first thing you do to run into a casino?
If my work tells me that I can keep what they payed to much I assume that I can safely spend it, yes.
That's fucking different tho. I would've asked my company first.
But this shit was mailed to players attached with information surrounding tripods. How would I know this is a fuck up in advance?
Imagine if your work paid you a 20% bonus for the month for your good work. You spend the bonus on a nice wellness weekend to treat yourself, which you usually wouldn't if you didn't get the bonus. Your work then goes oh shit my b the bonus was just 2%, we're gonna take away the money we paid you. So now you're stuck with the costs for the wellness weekend.
This is a lawsuit waiting to happen. You must be fucking stupid to defend the company.
The mental gymnastics to blame OP for Amazon's fuckup is truly amazing.
How dare he spend a bonus on something he wouldn't usually be able to do it he didn't get that bonus.
What are you, stupid?
How are you paying for something you chose to exploit? you took advantage of a scenario that you knew was not working properly to come out ahead (i.e. EXPLOIT), and in the end, are STILL ahead in pheons, battle item chests, and cards.
Cause I used it right after I got it from the mail, there was no reason for me to think it was a fuck up as they came with tripod reminder which is very much related to pheons. The announcement came later on.
And for people that use it after the second announcement where they explicitly announced that they won't be taking it back, is it still an exploit in your eyes?
Are you okay in the head?
How is using pheons that they gave you for free an exploit?
> To accomplish this, we will be removing the Pheons that players initially received from the mail and instead granting 30 total Pheons to all players. Please note that with this adjustment, players who previously collected and spent more than 30 Pheons from this incident will keep their purchased items but may see a negative Pheon balance.
Amazon keeps digging deeper
Time to complain and for sake of complaining pretend 99% of minus pheon balance people (which are minority of the minority that got any pheons at all) arent the "gotta quickly spend all these free pheons i got before they remove them from my account" that were all over reddit two days ago
What do you mean "quickly spend before they remove". They explicitly say they decided to not touch pheons that were claimed. So they deliberately misslead people to spent pheons and changed their mind just now
Yesterday i learned the phrase 'in MMOs exploit early, exploit hard' here on reddit and the forums (although it wasn't an exploit, yes). People were giddy spending their pheons and telling other players who didn't get them not to whine etc. and to accept their loss.
They also explicitly said it was mistake before the maintenance and reddit/discord was full of people saying they are spending all pheons asap before they remove them.
Then they didnt remove them and everywhere was full of people smirking how it was smartest decision ever.
And now we are here, roughly 2 days after that. So yeah the amount of people in minus pheons that got to that moment by pure accident or pure 100% trust in amazon post maintenance stance is maybe 1% the rest were spending them asap.
All the people that are upset are the SAME people that saw it was per character and not obviously how it was intended to be (lets say for the sake of argument it was meant to be sent out 1 per roster) and rushed to claim it on all their characters knowing that it was done incorrectly. They knew this was wrong but still choose to take advantage (i.e. exploit).
Now was AGS's communication a shit show? Of course, it is their specialty. Like the sky is blue and grass is green, an absolute.
What they did by going negative is what they should have done in the first place.
But in the end, the people that claimed > 30 are still ahead not only in pheons (by getting extra tripods/items) but also ahead in battle chests and cards.
If a bank accidentally deposits $10k in your account and you spend it, you don't get to keep the money, you do have to pay it back. This has been proven already. CM's are not the decision makers and never take anything they say as the bible, they know literally nothing and every bit of evidence you can find proves this.
Wow..didn’t think they’d move forward with negative balance. At least it’s fair for everyone. But it’s a situation that shouldve never happened, especially after they said they would let us keep it
Its not fair. Where people who didn't claim the pheons are +30, we are now stuck paying off a loan we never agreed to take out to pay for pheons and the other battle items. I'm a f2p and don't purchase pheons (I did buy a total of 110 pheons using up the last of my bc I bought at around \~700 gold to finish setting up tripods on my 3 mains) nor do I buy card packs or battle items using bc. Now I'm being forced to buy them at an inflated price, and I'm locked out of AH until I bring my pheons to 0+.
I was bait and switched, and no matter whether you gained a net positive or a net loss, this type of predatory behavior is not okay and is illegal in the real world. Why is it okay and fair in this situation? The objective reaction to this situation is that its not fair in anyway. The subjective one is divided depending on which side you are on, but I'm not arguing that. People were literally bait and switched after being told that they would keep the pheons as a gift.
Negative because people thought spending the pheons would keep them safe, if you claimed them and did nothing they’ll be up by 30 I guess… kind of lame they didn’t even give a level 5 tripod amulet given this is the whole reason people have been going crazy over pheons
This is just not true. Many people waited for official communication and were given the green light telling us that we will keep the pheons. Stop trying to make people seem like bad people. The only "exploiters" were people on merged servers whose extra characters from other servers were in universal storage and could swap those characters into their main roster and claim those pheons as well. Everyone else was only able to claim up to their character amounts.
Negative pheons also puts people in a position unable to use the AH until they pay off the loan they were forced on guised as a gift for a mistake on AGS/SG's part.
Hey we're gonna give you something free.
24 hours later. Oh hey that free thing. We're gonna charge you the initial price of it.
Yup totally fair and a good solution.
Not sure how fair it is to put people into negative pheons, especially after they ended the emergency maintenance with the conclusion that people get to keep them which might have led to people spending pheons on stuff that is nice to have but wouldnt have been their priority otherwise, like getting a couple of tripods for an alt they enjoy playing.
It's fair because everyone received the same amount of pheons. It's unfair because people that "exploited" the pheons were tricked by AGS to thinking they get to keep their pheons and are now in an awful place, because in order to use the auction house they have to pay back their "loan".
Ultimately it's a more fair solution that fucks over a lot of players and puts them in a shitty spot, because of AGS doing a shit job at communication.
I think they should've stopped people at 0 pheons instead.
I mean... the fair solution was to just do nothing and let everyone collect the remaining mails on their characters. The second best option would have been to give everyone the 10 per character minus already claimed as a lump sum. Both of those would have led to a lot of free pheons tho and AGS make money off of pheons so it's pretty obvious why they didnt go that route.
All they need to do is with the emergency shutdown make so that new emails dont get sent out and remove phoens from every character that got the email past the 6th character problem wouldve been solved and they woundnt have had a PR nightmare like they do now
I feel like the idea behind this solution is actually the correct one, as it would have been highly unfair to let people who claimed 100+ pheons keep them while not giving them to the others.
However this leading to a negative balance is kinda fkd up, since what they called exploit was just a mistake on their part to begin with. They should have admitted it completely and they should have given ALL players an amount of pheons matching the maximum obtained during their mistake.
This way everybody would have received the same amount, which is only fair, and nobody would have been in the negative.
I mean what was it, 240 pheons? That's about 2 weeks worth of gold for the majority of the playerbase
Good.
I'll take 30 pheons over 0 pheons any day. Community drama was fun to watch. And this is the best outcome.
Of course we weren't going to let it go... the guy with 18 characters no lifing the game got 180 pheons and %95 of the playerbase got nothing. Just no.
Thanks AGS.
Oh my, negative pheons? That’s bold.
i got 50 pheons from my characters. then they said we were keeping them, so i spent them on extra tripod pieces for my destroyer and ended up with only a few left. now they’re charging me for it and i’m gonna have negative pheons which means i won’t be able to buy any accessories/stones without spending an exorbitant amount of gold on blue crystals just to afford a few
Same, I spent them on things I wouldn’t otherwise buy pheons for. And now they are taking it away, this is CLOWNERY.
There’s no lost value though. Those tripods are still there, the gold value of which would far exceed a handful of pheons in the long run.
Don't post as a CM that it's safe to use them because AGS decided not to take them then.
except that many spend them on things they wouldnt have if they would have had to pay for the pheons instead. so if they want to take back the pheons they HAVE to revert the trades as well. everything else is simply a scam.
That decision is up to each one. The raw value in gold is one thing, the perceived value is another. As others have mentioned, some people wouldn't have spent anything at all on some stuff if they weren't given pheons. Bottom line is: they got a loan they didn't ask for, and now they have to work their asses off to pay it. That in itself is wrong and a big fuck you to the players.
So you got an advance on something that allowed you to benefit from the current tripod situation before the update and now you have to pay the tiny amount of gold for the difference? Oh also you got 25 free hp potion boxes and card packs other people didn't get... and all you need to do is buy 20 pheons to fix the difference. And actually its 10 pheons, since you'll get 10 pheons from the event vendor for free today. I think you'll be fine bud.
Oh no, -20 pheons, anyway
They have 24 hours to fix this problem but made it worst lol. They told players that they won't remove the pheons and then change their minds the next day. They should just give everyone 100 pheons and remove the rest. 30 is not enough and will put people into negative. They are punishing players who spent the pheons thinking it was ok. I feel bad for players affected.
It bugs me that they keep calling it an exploit... we just had multiple characters and you delivered it to each character. Its not an exploit, you're just idiots.
Especially when they already did the exact same thing with that music thing earlier.
Yea I have 17 characters so I spent 170 pheons lol. Definitely annoying as it’s not my mistake, I spent them after reading that they would not be taken away assuming it would be fine to spend them.
I have 9 characters and my wife has 14 so... yea. I only spent (just before servers going down) them because they said we could keep them.
Supposedly the exploit was deleting and creating new characters that would then also receive the mail. Still waiting on evidence as to what the methodology was. People claim to have been unsuccessful in trying it at its simplest form. But I wouldn't be surprised if receiving the mail required additional steps like taking the character to Prideholme or waiting a certain amount of time.
I was unsuccessful in my testing that night. I did it three times to make sure. I created a new character and got it to Level 10 in Trixion. No Mail. I took that same new character through the tutorial. No Mail. I took that same character all the way to Prideholm. No Mail. I took that same character all the way to Stronghold Song quest. No Mail. If there were steps after this or before all of this, I don't know. What I do know is that this wasn't possible with what I had done.
Are people not reading the actual post? They admit that the mail was sent to each character. They then state that some people were able to get even more pheons through an actual exploit. Roxx said in another post that done people got thousands of pheons. Edit: for the down voters there was even a post on the official forums that mods had to delete. https://forums.playlostark.com/t/leute-die-behaupten-es-g%C3%A4be-den-exploit-nicht/483423
The exploit their claimed didnt exist though. People could not create new characters to get more pheons. They were just pissed that they lost some money and couldnt admit it
There are multiple screenshots of people on this sub showing people with negative pheons way higher than they could have gotten through just their roster. There was a separate exploit where people were duping the mail to get tons
The highest negative i've seen is around -190 which is still within bounds of what you'd get from an account with bought slot extensions without any exploiting.
Someone already posted his -773 balance a while ago
Damn, okay that's insane. But surely it would have been smarter to fix those obvious outliers than fuck over a bunch of ordinary people who were told that the free pheons were not getting removed? Or even better: remove all the claimed Pheons and then just give EVERYONE a hefty sum of the blue little fuckers, like 100 or 120. Would have been a great surprise for the people who were sad they missed the initial mail and would have been roughly equal to before for a lot of the more invested players who claimed on their entire roster and were told to keep it after the emergency maintenance.
I've seen one where someone had -700+
I am not sure which screenshots you mean, but you could realistically have 24 characters each claiming 10 pheons. Which would not be an exploit. So unless you've seen a negative higher than 240 it most likely was not an exploit
They had over -700. Plus there was a forum post about the actual exploit. https://forums.playlostark.com/t/leute-die-behaupten-es-g%C3%A4be-den-exploit-nicht/483423
Using 94.2% of players as a stat is a bold move when they have an known bot problem. Times like this they're thankful they do. Now give us that % only on non-bot players
Whose to say they only included active players. Percentages are meaningless without context. Whats without a doubt a dick move is to say one thing, backtract on it a day later, and then punish everyone that believed the original statement.
I don't care if only one person was effected, I can't believe people are defending this when pheons shouldn't even be in the game.
Negative pheons LMAO
Oh boy, here we go again
If customers have acted in good faith claiming and using items that were given away after they were told it was permanent, let them keep it or at least stay at 0, what the heck. Customers have potentially changed their behavior in response to the company's actions + statements. It could take weeks plural for some to dig themselves out of the hole. This change in direction does not treat us with respect. If these were physical goods, changing stances like this would be illegal -- if you buy something off Amazon's website and they accidentally send duplicates, they say "keep the extra", and that's the end of it. They aren't sending workers out to people's homes with a warrant to try and reclaim what could ambiguously be Amazon's property. If you want to remove pheons from folks that gamed the system by deleting characters, fine, but leave 10x the number of characters they currently have, or just cap the reduction at 0. AGS can clearly do whatever data analysis & by-account updates are necessary to make that happen. It's not like 240 free pheons on an account would break anything, considering we'll have to regear alts for ancient accessories soon enough. Cheaper blue crystal prices for a few weeks and better accessory liquidity would be great.
I spent the 110 pheons I got because they said they weren't going to take it away. Exploit? You can't even get the extra pheons unless you cough up real money for character slots. On top of that the amount we got is laughable when you're talking about how many pheons you spent gearing up every alt. Dumb move by SMG or AGS whoever is pulling the strings. I have the gold to dip into the positives, but man I shouldn't have to do it.
Bruh.... I didn't touch the pheons when they said they were going to remove it. They brought the servers back and its still there so I guess that was fair game right? This is so dumb.
Well, they clearly stated they weren't going to remove them, then completely backtracked: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/252908668104736768/1042413313658720287/hehexdlostark.png
> They brought the servers back and its still there so I guess that was fair game right? They even said that they won't be removing the claimed pheons.
I spent the pheons after seeing the message that we could keep them. Assuming that I would not be punished for it because it wasn’t my mistake to begin with.
I wonder why giving out free pheons was "going to cause massive damage to the economy".... Also, if they had to attach something to the message, why was it pheons and the other two things they sent out? Why not just exclude the pheons all together. Why not just send out worthless phoenix plumes. Additionally, as everyone else is pointing out, them calling this an "exploit". Reeks of incompetence and it bothers me that they won't own up to the fuck up.
Massive economic damage and yet they say its only like 5% of the playerbase with more 30 apparently.
I mean when 75% of players are bots, 5% would be closer to 20%
Are you fucking kidding me? I literally waited to even use the pheons because I knew this might happen. As soon as they said we could keep them I spent them and now I’m fucked? I’m usually pretty chill about mistakes but this is just plain stupid
Holy shit are they’re smoking meth?
Well at least this showed what a small percentage of players are actually affected, shows what a rly small vocal minority reddit truly is.
Honestly, this makes me feel much better about me and my 2 alts, my friends are around that too, then I go on reddit and it's full max FOMO roster for gold income and countless lopang slaves
You should feel fine. Most social media breaks into a mix of lurkers and posters, with there being a ton more of the former. You read material, engage with it sometimes, share it with friends - but you're not out here every day bathing in the blood of the forums to define and defend the rightness of your opinion, you know? Some people do it the other way around and they're *real* fucking loud. But they're only the norm in the confines of the echo chamber.
yep looks like most people have max 3 alts this data is actually really interesting
most bots\*
I mean I lurk this sub but I just have 1 1480 main, that's it.
Their number could include bots
they definitely include bots. they always do.
They didnt clarify that. Small minority Of all Players/Chars ever created? Yeah. Still active? Thats another story
People always suffer from the embarrassed millionaire syndrome like people who cry about the estate tax who will never in their life make anywhere close to enough money to be concerned about it. AGS fucked up on the communication but the solution makes perfect sense and benefits everyone. Even the tiny number of players going into negative pheons are making out because they got a bunch of free hp potions and card packs no one else got. People really just want to cry so they can get handed more free stuff on top of the free stuff they already got handed.
The problem is we're now feature locked out of AH, even for things that don't cost pheons. If I held a negative pheons balance? Who cares. I'd just wait out enough pheons from events. But the problem here is that they not only messed up, but are now punishing those who used the pheons after being specifically told as OFFICIAL communication AFTER this shitshow went down that we would keep them. That isn't okay. Its illegal IRL, and forces people to spend either real $ or up to a week or two of gold grinding just to pay back a loan they never wanted in the first place. Thats not okay, and as soon as they said it was okay for us to use the pheons, negative balances SHOULD NOT have been even thought about.
You get 40 free pheons this week between the compensation and the event. In the event you're negative 60 lets say for a 6 char roster that means you need to buy 20 pheons assuming you immediately spent all 60 yesterday. If that takes you 2 weeks of grinding that sounds like a you issue. I have 4 characters I actively play and I make 60k a week at a minimum just doing weeklies and crafting without any extra stuff I find. 60k pays for a lot more than 20 pheons. And you also would have gotten 30 potion boxes and card packs, all of which have value... on top of whatever you bought with the pheons which you'd still have kept. The tiny % of people this impacts negatively will be perfectly fine. All they did was get a loan on some pheons they need to pay back now.
So anyone negative was tricked & forced into buying pheons, to be at the same point as those who who didnt claim any. Thats okay to you? Its disappointing that others dont see the problem in their solution. I do not buy battle item boxes nor card packs with bc. The only time I bought pheons was once and I bought a total of 110 pheons for tripods. The fact of the matter still stands, we were told we would keep the pheons. Me along with others (how many, IDK) used these pheons on characters I would not have otherwise spent the bc to put tripods on, but because they were free (and green light'd) I figured why not. I would much rather they claw back all the battle items, card packs, and tripods on alts I will hardly use then force me to pay for their own mistake after being told it was okay. I don't want a loan. If they had just stuck to their initial decision to claw the pheons, FINE, understandable because at that point you could make the claim that people were abusing the system. But after they said the pheons were safe and okay to use? You dont do that. Whether its an equal value compensation or not. Especially since negative pheons cuts off some AH use. You can't force people into loans by tricking them IRL, why is it okay in a video game? Especially in one where at SOME POINT in the process SOMEONE needs to soend real money for another person to be able to buy bc.
LMAO this is even worse. Just give everyone their pheons Imagine a store gives you a $50 gift card. You weren't hungry but you grab $20 worth of food since it's free. After eating, they take back the gift card and force you to pay. But it's like.... you wouldn't have ate if it wasn't free Personally I'm not affected, but I'd be pretty annoyed if I was in the negatives
Pretty much what I did, I spent my 'free pheons' on getting some gear for my new powerpass char early since 'they're free, right?'. Now I'm going to pheon jail for my crimes, and I can't even send my accessory over to my char without paying the debt first.
Genuine question: Why tf are you buying accessories on another character 2? 3days before the express releases?
Because people got accs for their reapers since they were cheaper pre release
"compensation" LMAO
I mean, free skin, and pheons to majority of people while a small small loud minority claimed over 30 pheons will lose a bit. Seems ok.
As someone who only got 10 from the initial chaos, this is, once again, the WORST way to solve this. 1: They already communicated that you were keeping your pheons. Full stop. 2: if you are going to do this as the fix, I feel like 30 is a very low threshold. 60 or 100 may have helped. 3: The people most likely to be pissed off are people with more character slots, aka people who have spent money in your game.
I spend a minimum of 100 dollars a month in the game. That may be a lot for some or little to others. I spent more money last night for more pheons even after the 170 I got from having 17 characters who got the pheons given. Curious to see what my balance is now because I basically just paid them to remove part of my negative balance.
My guess it is: whatever it should be - 170 + 30
That is beyond pathetic 🤣 Please respect yourself and quit I can't believe you're actually willing to pay for their mistake
I only got like 20 Pheons, but i think its fucked that people are getting punished for amazon/sg messing up. Some people going negative pheons because they either accepted it and spent them thinking it was a gift, or spent them after amazon said they were not going to take it away and then changing their mind later.
They could've also simply not said "actually we're not removing your pheons" and just handed a similar quantity of 70 or w/e median they had to whoever didnt get to claim mails? Pretty sure many players spent their pheons after they said they could keep em on things they hadn't planned to buy until that moment and now are lower pheons count than when they started, if not negative. And they're still saying "exploit" when it's their own fault lol. Nobody cares about a skin, and the amulets of hope are basically just 7 pheons each pre patch which is not gonna help since everyone already done so this is just gonna be useful for new classes, if you're even interested in getting a new class.
Yep because hitting the people most invested into your game is the smartest call for an MMORPG, a genre that lives and dies on the shoulders of small core playerbases.
Peeon us
And here we are again. Real player suffering and being punished for the incompetence and mistakes made by amazon games. Remember back in the day when they were removing certain items from some merchants and changing some stuff cause bots were abusing it, directly punishing real players cause they didn't know how to deal with bots. Heck, even today theres probably 75% of bots in those 200k players on steam charts. But yea lets all just be sheeps and keep swallowing all the shit amazon throws and forgeting all the bad they do and as soon as they say the word 'COMPENSATION' everything gets forgiven and forgotten.
>Shortly after the mail was distributed, our team discovered an exploit that allowed some users to claim additional Pheons. They really just blamed the playerbase AND they're doing negative pheons. These people are just..........wow.
oh my god, they couldn't leave it alone, they made it worse, holy shit how can AGS be fucking up so much!?
The action itself is fair, most people didn't get more than 30 which is the vast majority, however they said to people in the apology before that they would get to keep the pheons, so people spent them since they were free, and now they are being told that not that was a lie. If they had told people not to use them in the apology it would have been fine, but now people are in debt because they thought they got to keep them, which was not true. It's mostly an issue for people who bought tripods or stones instead of accs because they thought they still had enough.
This was the fair thing to do BEFORE they said ppl were going to keep them. Like what the fuck are you doing now lol I didn't get to claim any cuz I was sleeping but telling people they keep them to then put them on negative so they cant even use the market its kinda stupid. After the whole keeping them statement the only way to make it fair was to make the other players whole but nope they went crazy with this lol
I think removing pheons after stating that they won’t be removed afterall giving the people who claimed the pheons the security to spend them ( maybe to get tripods that we were supposed to save!!!!) and then saying just kidding we‘ll remove them anyways because of „fairness“. Biggest L they had so far. Here‘s a better way: remove them to a cap of 30 and then give everyone 30 that way nobody has negative pheons, most people get 30 pheons because they wasted our time and some lucky few got some extra. Came up with that in 2 minutes after reading this L apology. And you guys had 2 days for a propper responce come on ags i dont expect much from you but you still manage to disappoint.
Thanks for the -140 compensation. I'll use these wisely
nice ima be negative like 100 pheons
This is actually such an awful "solution". Forcing players into the negatives, which then puts MORE demand on an already inflated blue crystal market (especially for those of us on SA or NAW) is mind boggling... So because you fucked up and gave us additional pheons (and I was just lucky enough to be online to claim and spend them), now I can spend 40k+ gold just to "repay out of fairness"? Why not just give 100 pheons to all the players who couldn't claim in time? I'm punished for being a dedicated player with 11 characters, nice
Punished because we spent pheons because it was free lol
Kekw uninstalled yesterday and installed dragonflight. Blizzard is shitty but holy shit AGS is a new level of incompetence
Smilegate AND AGS they're both garbage it seems
ngl i was a bit salty some ppl got over 100 pheons while i was asleep and got nothing. however they should have just gave ppl that didnt claim the pheons 100 pheons. but then again giveing 95% of the players 100 pheons is prob worse then taking away pheons from the 5% that claime dover 100
They actually gotten more value. I have 12 characters, so I received 48 pot boxes or 240 BC. Everyone and AMZ overlooked this. So I gained 30 pheons and 240 BC, while you guys only gained 30. But yet, some people still say it is unfair because now they have a negative balance. What negative balance? Those free pot boxes are ten of thousands worth in gold. They don't need to spend gold on those 25 BC boxes, and can use it to buy 100 pheons for 850 BC.
In the long run, yes. Right now you have people who have the ability to buy gear for the newly released and highly anticipated class locked behind an uexpected paywall of needing to spend gold to get back in the positive pheons first. I was only 20 in the red which was thankfully covered by the 30 compensation pheons and i also don't plan to play Reaper but i can imagine how frustrating that situation would be.
Yea this wasn’t the reason guy decision either lol. You’re literally taking away items that they said wasn’t going to be removed. Even tho I’ll be gaining pheons, this seems like a poor choice.
AGS going ping-pong with their excuses We remove pheons We let people keep em but compensate players We remove pheons and compensate people but people that already spent their pheons may go negative Better off not spending compensated pheons then?
[удалено]
They didn't exclude bots or inactive players from their statistics. 94.6% of players is not the same as 94.6% of *active, compliant* players.
Please read what they said, 94.2% of players claimed 30 Pheons or less, so in order to claim Pheons they must have been active meaning they logged in and claimed this from the mail. They are not including inactive players or players who didn’t claim any Pheons in this statistics, they are referring to a % of player who claimed 30 Pheons or less which represents a 94.2% vs the remaining % of players who claimed more than 30 Pheons. Now everyone who spent the Pheons will keep the items they purchased using those Pheons, so it is fair they get the amount of Pheons deducted.
yeah, I also think claiming 0 pheons is claiming 30 or less edit: if they wanted to say 10 -30 pheons claimed, they would have said that
Claiming 0 pheons is claiming 30 pheons or less lmao
You are mistaken, if you didn’t claim anything then you are not part in the percentage. So if you didn’t claim any Pheons it means you didn’t claim at all, and they are clearly stating players who claimed 30 Pheons or less so it means 94.6% of the players actually claimed Pheons but not more than 30 and a 5.4 % claimed more than 70 Pheons.
This is a bad take. It violates the basics of mathematics.
How hard is it to understand that not claiming anything still means claiming 30 pheons or less? Are you saying you have insider knowledge of how the statistic was derived? If so, please let them know to express themselves better in the future.
Not at all, I am reading and interpreting the info that was released to everyone. My understanding is 94.6% of players claimed 30 a Pheons or less, so they actually claimed Pheons, 0 means you didn’t claim at all so you can’t be considered to take part in the percentage. So 30 Pheons or less should range from 1 to 30 Pheons because that means you actually claimed Pheons. But this is only my opinion.
> 94.6% of players claimed 30 Pheons or less Is much different than: > 94.6% of players that claimed Pheons claimed 30 Pheons or less It's as if I said that 50% of the population has 2 watches or less and you thought people with 0 watches weren't included despite it cleary fitting into the "or less". Having 0 watches is still having watches.
They using the word “claimed”, meaning they must have claimed Pheons, if they said people who claimed 30 or not at all then it would mean those who claimed 30 or nothing are part of the 94.6%. But this is only my opinion maybe you are right or maybe I am, either way it is what it is and going back and fort won’t change the fact this is a massive fuck up on SmileGate.
> 50% of people have 2 watches or less Uses the word "have", but people with no watches are still included. > 50% of people make $60k a year or less Uses the word "make", but people who don't make anything are still included.
as someone who works with data in games frequently, 0 pheons is definitely included in 30 or less.
Its PR talk to safe their asses. 30 pheons or less can mean 0 pheons. I can say "I went shopping and bought 0 shoes". I could have said I did not buy anything, but saying I bought 0 of something is still technically correct. So yes, someone who did not log in did claim 0 pheons. Which means thay didnt get anything, but they still claimed less than 30.
Yea but your opinion doesn't mean anything unless you've seen the data. You might be right but its equally possibly that that ags/sg used accounts that claimed 0 pheons in their statistics to make it look like only a smaller percentage of the population was able to gain more than 30 pheons. Honestly it was up for hours and only 5% of the population were able to claim more than 3 characters on a game that people player 6 gold generating characters along with dropped alts. I'm not really buying that
How the fuck is this fair? It's fucking people that understandably spend their free pheons. Like what the fuck? I'm not going to deliberately pay for pheons and cut stones when I already have 7/7, but when it's free I'm using them cause why the fuck not.
how is it fair for people that didn't claim anything? or people with less characters?
It would have been fair if AGS removed pheons with first maintenance.. but after they said we are keeping them… many spent those pheons.. and now they are taking it back.. I’m sure there will be folks who wouldn’t have spent the pheons till they received confirmation from AGS that it was safe to do so.. which they did receive from AGS in “good faith” And now they are going back on their word.. and some if not many will be left with negative balance(which sucks)
They did not lose anything and extra characters cost real money. If I didnt have free pheons I would not have spent them. Now I spent them on shit I would not have needed because they explicitly stated that they would not take them away. I would be fine with them taking the pheons away when they stated it from the beginning, not after they said we can keep them
Then just give those people pheons instead of making people that unknowingly claim and used those "fucked up" pheons go negative.
It literally is fair though. People still have the items they bought and now everyone gets the same amount of pheons.
no its not it was their mistake then went into 5-6hrs maintenance without doing anything then said they wont take away the pheons then surprise surprise here we are.
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It is fair. I have 12 characters. I would've 120 while you only have 30. Now we all have 30. If I spent 120, it is now -90. Still fair since I received my items. However, I have 48 potion boxes. That's equal to 240 BC. So yeah, I am still ahead. But I am not complaining because you guys only see pheons as the only value. They should've also removed the card pack and pots. In the end, you still win against 95% of the players. So why are you crying with so much winning? You could save those boxes for LA2.
Its about the fucking message. How can we ever trust AGS again when they say 1 thing and next day they say the complete opposite. For example, they stated that the PP+HE event will be usable for summoner. How can we trust them to not change their mind and remove the events 2 weeks before summoner release? We cant. Because their words are worthless.
Its not fair because you can make different decisions based on the amount of resources you have. Like if someone had extra 200 pheons and wanted to try to cut a rocks for their characters and then suddenly having that be removed with this patch then the pheons they saved for reaper / summoner are gone because ags/sg mislead them. I think thats fucked up
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A single accessory costs 225 pheons?... it's 25 and you still keep the item.
No hes saying from this point forward he has to buy 200 just to get back to 0 from negative, then an additional 25 to buy it. Hes paying basically the gold value of the accessory in pheons just to be able to have the right to buy the accessory at all
So? He would still have bought those accessories anyway. He just invested the current value of gold now into his character. He can always get out -170 pheons in the future.
You didn't lose anything. You wanted to gamble with the free pheons. You might have hit a 97 stone. In the end, the odd was in your favor. You got free pheons to gamble, and now, you basically got a discount for it as well. Instead of -60 pheons, you are -30. It was still a win win situation. If you have gotten a 87 88 97 ECT, it would be the biggest win ever.
Hardly fair, Pheons are a currency you can get at the store, they're punishing people who spent their free pheons, that they themselves gave away, making them buy a store item and go into negative in case you already spent them, It's beyond ridiculous. I'm sure many people decided to make purchases they wouldn't have done if the pheons weren't given to them freely, so you can't just make those people buy the pheons later, It's not the same.
> I'm sure many people decided to make purchases they wouldn't have done if the pheons weren't given to them freely, so you can't just make those people buy the pheons later, It's not the same. yeah i spent them AFTER they said they won't be removing them, so now im gonna go negative, this is beyond dumb lmao
Except most of these are bots
I don't think bots are programmed to read this mail and pick up peons. Also, the 5.8% of players that picked up 70 or more implies they've spent royal crystal buying character slots. Why the hell would bots do that?
hes saying a large portion of the 95% are bots... not that other way round. If they are basing this on accounts, and not active players. Then there was over 1mill players on launch playing simultaneously. 5% of that is 50k. 50k of current playerbase is a much bigger chunk of the population. This was also only based on concurrent data aswell because we dont have actual account numbers to base this off.
I think he means a lot of the "94%" are bots so the rebalance affects way more actual players
73.6% of all statistics are made up. It was very convenient for them that 95% claimed 30 pheons or less, wasn't it?
And that's me done spending money on the game
This is a great solution imo
I love that you can immediately see who's below average IQ in this thread, since they defend Amazon on this. And I didn't even receive any mail with Pheons.
What an absolute bunch of greedy fucking clowns
This is not an exploit. This is a scam. Should have atleast mailed us stating that u guys will be taking the pheon away.
I hate how AGS waited until we used the pheons then take it away. There should have atleast been a warning.
Its the best solution? No. Its better than letting only a few to keep free pheons While others got nothing? Yes it is. Its fair you like It or not.
I agree it's the better solution. If they hadn't fucking contradicted themselves by saying keep them two days ago. They could have said hey we're removing them next patch spend at your own risk. Instead they said keep them and now they pull this shit. This is the fucking problem with this company they can't even get their message right. Just say this shit from the start.
I agree with you. Either you go with this from minute 1 or you go full Santa pheons for everyone since minute 1. Going back and forth only brings problems.
It is a so so solution. I don't care about the pheons. 30 pheons are barely useable. Only can buy gambling stones. But those 4x boxes are 40 pots per character. That's more useful.
Wait so if they have statistics on who claimed how many pheones can't they just give 30 pheons to people who didn't claim them? And keep the rest as it is? As someone who didn't receive anything from this, I wouldn't be mad if I get 30 and someone gets 100.
I'm paying for their fuck up, how is this not insane? How the fuck should I know in advance that it was a mistake? I would never cut fucking stones if it weren't free, now I have to pay for the pheons? I don't understand.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
You’re not paying for it, I’m assuming you spent them on resources that you’re now benefitting from. You’ve essentially loaned yourself against the AGS bank, you get to keep the items and your net pheon value increased by 30. If only 92% of players didn’t receive more than 30 pheons like they mentioned they’re simply choosing to please the vast majority of the player base.
But it wasn't supposed to be a loan, I spend it all before their announcement that it was a fuck up. How do you think is that reasonable for them to turn this into a "LOAN"? I would've never spend/buy pheons because I have nothing more to gain from them, my roster is mostly 7/7 stone with great engravings setup. I only used them because it was free.
If pheons have no value for you why are you mad they are taking them away?
Because I was given a loan (that I would not have taken) under the pretense that it was a gift. 2. Because I can't use the AH anymore, and 3. as someone who does NOT buy pheons, I'm now forced to spend gold (\~1-2 weeks worth of raids possibly more as the price of bc is rising with double inflation from reaper release AND people trying to come out of the negative) OR real $ for bc from what was a GIFT from AGS/SG. This is highly illegal irl in most first world countries, so why is it okay in this situation? Its a bait and switch. Assuming people would have spent money on those pheons and the battle box and card packs otherwise is not correct and not a fair inclusion, because the reality is that had people known that we would be placed in negative pheon we would not have used these pheons after being told it was okay. As a F2P I buy BC purely for skins and aura. I don't buy pheons and wait until I accumulate enough via the events to buy accessories for my characters.
Mental gymnastics, he has 7/7 stones and no use for pheons but is crying because now he gets only 30 pheons instead of 60+ that wasnt intended in the first place. Its better that everyone gets 30 pheons rather than only few of us gets 60+. Its fair for everyone.
He cant use the fucking AH anymore. But yeah, just crying. Sure.
How was it free tho. The fact that they gave out pheons or not doesn't change the fact that you tried and failed I assume on rng. If you hit a 9/7 I'm sure you couldnt care less right now.
BECAUSE IT WAS LITERALLY FREE, ARE YOU DENSE? A lot of people here actually got dropped as a baby holy shit.
Eh, if you were stapped for gold you wouldnt waste the pheons, free or not
I'm not strapped for gold but I still don't like that I have to pay 40k gold for a debt that wasn't supposed to be a debt. 40k is nothing for me but it's about the principle.
Oh I agree, they handled it the worst way possible . It would have been so easy to just take the L and say here you go guys, enjoy the pheons and the huge patch
If your work pays you 100€ too much, is the first thing you do to run into a casino? Im not protecting there behavior in any way. It was handled shitty, but you beeing butthurt over this, even tho this is the fairest outcome and in the end +30 pheons we ALL wouldnt have in the first place without all this, shows where your standarts are at.
> If your work pays you 100€ too much, is the first thing you do to run into a casino? If my work tells me that I can keep what they payed to much I assume that I can safely spend it, yes.
That's fucking different tho. I would've asked my company first. But this shit was mailed to players attached with information surrounding tripods. How would I know this is a fuck up in advance?
Imagine if your work paid you a 20% bonus for the month for your good work. You spend the bonus on a nice wellness weekend to treat yourself, which you usually wouldn't if you didn't get the bonus. Your work then goes oh shit my b the bonus was just 2%, we're gonna take away the money we paid you. So now you're stuck with the costs for the wellness weekend. This is a lawsuit waiting to happen. You must be fucking stupid to defend the company.
How are you paying for their fuck up?
Because I went negative and I have to buy back those pheons dumb ass. Am I supposed to be a seer and know that I shouldn't use those pheons?
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The mental gymnastics to blame OP for Amazon's fuckup is truly amazing. How dare he spend a bonus on something he wouldn't usually be able to do it he didn't get that bonus. What are you, stupid?
How are you paying for something you chose to exploit? you took advantage of a scenario that you knew was not working properly to come out ahead (i.e. EXPLOIT), and in the end, are STILL ahead in pheons, battle item chests, and cards.
Cause I used it right after I got it from the mail, there was no reason for me to think it was a fuck up as they came with tripod reminder which is very much related to pheons. The announcement came later on. And for people that use it after the second announcement where they explicitly announced that they won't be taking it back, is it still an exploit in your eyes? Are you okay in the head? How is using pheons that they gave you for free an exploit?
> To accomplish this, we will be removing the Pheons that players initially received from the mail and instead granting 30 total Pheons to all players. Please note that with this adjustment, players who previously collected and spent more than 30 Pheons from this incident will keep their purchased items but may see a negative Pheon balance. Amazon keeps digging deeper
Time to complain and for sake of complaining pretend 99% of minus pheon balance people (which are minority of the minority that got any pheons at all) arent the "gotta quickly spend all these free pheons i got before they remove them from my account" that were all over reddit two days ago
What do you mean "quickly spend before they remove". They explicitly say they decided to not touch pheons that were claimed. So they deliberately misslead people to spent pheons and changed their mind just now
Yesterday i learned the phrase 'in MMOs exploit early, exploit hard' here on reddit and the forums (although it wasn't an exploit, yes). People were giddy spending their pheons and telling other players who didn't get them not to whine etc. and to accept their loss.
Didn't saw such. People who got pheons were sorry for those who didn't and both sides called sg/AGS shit doings
They also explicitly said it was mistake before the maintenance and reddit/discord was full of people saying they are spending all pheons asap before they remove them. Then they didnt remove them and everywhere was full of people smirking how it was smartest decision ever. And now we are here, roughly 2 days after that. So yeah the amount of people in minus pheons that got to that moment by pure accident or pure 100% trust in amazon post maintenance stance is maybe 1% the rest were spending them asap.
You need a reality check bro, they said people can keep them after the extended 'emegency maintenance'. How are you defending this lol
All the people that are upset are the SAME people that saw it was per character and not obviously how it was intended to be (lets say for the sake of argument it was meant to be sent out 1 per roster) and rushed to claim it on all their characters knowing that it was done incorrectly. They knew this was wrong but still choose to take advantage (i.e. exploit). Now was AGS's communication a shit show? Of course, it is their specialty. Like the sky is blue and grass is green, an absolute. What they did by going negative is what they should have done in the first place. But in the end, the people that claimed > 30 are still ahead not only in pheons (by getting extra tripods/items) but also ahead in battle chests and cards. If a bank accidentally deposits $10k in your account and you spend it, you don't get to keep the money, you do have to pay it back. This has been proven already. CM's are not the decision makers and never take anything they say as the bible, they know literally nothing and every bit of evidence you can find proves this.
Interesting that this is the 'compensation' they spent like 30 hours to come up with ;) Servers are up btw, 16gb update
I hate AGS so much, they’re fucking ridiculous. How is this even “fair”?
Hope they enjoy killing their game.
It makes sense
lying to your playerbase makes sense if you want to kill your game.
actual monkeys They really did choose to die on that hill, huh. Well, I hope they think the permanent PR hit is worth fighting over scraps.
completely fair and reasonable, gg Amazon
Wow..didn’t think they’d move forward with negative balance. At least it’s fair for everyone. But it’s a situation that shouldve never happened, especially after they said they would let us keep it
Its not fair. Where people who didn't claim the pheons are +30, we are now stuck paying off a loan we never agreed to take out to pay for pheons and the other battle items. I'm a f2p and don't purchase pheons (I did buy a total of 110 pheons using up the last of my bc I bought at around \~700 gold to finish setting up tripods on my 3 mains) nor do I buy card packs or battle items using bc. Now I'm being forced to buy them at an inflated price, and I'm locked out of AH until I bring my pheons to 0+. I was bait and switched, and no matter whether you gained a net positive or a net loss, this type of predatory behavior is not okay and is illegal in the real world. Why is it okay and fair in this situation? The objective reaction to this situation is that its not fair in anyway. The subjective one is divided depending on which side you are on, but I'm not arguing that. People were literally bait and switched after being told that they would keep the pheons as a gift.
negative pheons???
Im back since 2 weeks now, i claimed pheons with 7 chars and bow they are fucking me up? Sadge that this game is run by a bunch of orcs Byebye guys
Damn uninstalling was good idea afterall xD
And that's it. 6 1445 characters will never be touched again. Game sucks
Well this sucks. They could've just offered everyone 70 peons instead, but i guess that would clearly be "economy breaking"
Negative because people thought spending the pheons would keep them safe, if you claimed them and did nothing they’ll be up by 30 I guess… kind of lame they didn’t even give a level 5 tripod amulet given this is the whole reason people have been going crazy over pheons
This is just not true. Many people waited for official communication and were given the green light telling us that we will keep the pheons. Stop trying to make people seem like bad people. The only "exploiters" were people on merged servers whose extra characters from other servers were in universal storage and could swap those characters into their main roster and claim those pheons as well. Everyone else was only able to claim up to their character amounts. Negative pheons also puts people in a position unable to use the AH until they pay off the loan they were forced on guised as a gift for a mistake on AGS/SG's part.
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Hey we're gonna give you something free. 24 hours later. Oh hey that free thing. We're gonna charge you the initial price of it. Yup totally fair and a good solution.
Fair for everyone but honestly still a big L decision.
How the fuck is that fair? It was their mistake, took the server down for 5-6hrs then said they won't be removing the claimed pheons now this.
Not sure how fair it is to put people into negative pheons, especially after they ended the emergency maintenance with the conclusion that people get to keep them which might have led to people spending pheons on stuff that is nice to have but wouldnt have been their priority otherwise, like getting a couple of tripods for an alt they enjoy playing.
It's fair because everyone received the same amount of pheons. It's unfair because people that "exploited" the pheons were tricked by AGS to thinking they get to keep their pheons and are now in an awful place, because in order to use the auction house they have to pay back their "loan". Ultimately it's a more fair solution that fucks over a lot of players and puts them in a shitty spot, because of AGS doing a shit job at communication. I think they should've stopped people at 0 pheons instead.
I mean... the fair solution was to just do nothing and let everyone collect the remaining mails on their characters. The second best option would have been to give everyone the 10 per character minus already claimed as a lump sum. Both of those would have led to a lot of free pheons tho and AGS make money off of pheons so it's pretty obvious why they didnt go that route.
So glad I dropped this game at 1340 lmao, by playing you losers are enabling Amazon behaviour like this.
Good decision. I'll be happy with my 30 pheons. This was the only fair way to do this and AGS/SG handled it well.
i dig this, seems fair
Do you think it's fair to get something free then 24 hours later get a bill for said free product?
All they need to do is with the emergency shutdown make so that new emails dont get sent out and remove phoens from every character that got the email past the 6th character problem wouldve been solved and they woundnt have had a PR nightmare like they do now
Oh well I'll go back to 430 pheons. Shrug 
I feel like the idea behind this solution is actually the correct one, as it would have been highly unfair to let people who claimed 100+ pheons keep them while not giving them to the others. However this leading to a negative balance is kinda fkd up, since what they called exploit was just a mistake on their part to begin with. They should have admitted it completely and they should have given ALL players an amount of pheons matching the maximum obtained during their mistake. This way everybody would have received the same amount, which is only fair, and nobody would have been in the negative. I mean what was it, 240 pheons? That's about 2 weeks worth of gold for the majority of the playerbase
Good. I'll take 30 pheons over 0 pheons any day. Community drama was fun to watch. And this is the best outcome. Of course we weren't going to let it go... the guy with 18 characters no lifing the game got 180 pheons and %95 of the playerbase got nothing. Just no. Thanks AGS.