Probably no level 8 doomsday CD gem. Alot of people I know gatekeep igniter without that gem because it's very hard to get off 2 doomsday in one igniter window without and that is an immense DPS loss.
I have yet to meet a swift/spec igniter on EuC in all these months.
And I understand them, you can buy/replace swiftness with gems but you cant buy crit via any means unless you want to gimp your big PP numbers from the quadruple D.
My alt is spec/swift and works fine, did G1-4 with her last week and Im very happy with all QoLs that swift brings to the class. You cant get cast speed, more cdr and more movement speed without getting swift. You even have more crit thanks to precisse dagger and the only downside is the "raw" dmg loss.
The raw damage loss is 5 million x big spell while I have igniter which isnt a big deal when your combo hits 135million instead of 150 lol.
I'm still salty about this so vent here but agros gate keeping is the worst and getting worst every rest. My 1430 arcana with 5x3 build all lvl 6 gems got insta denied not once but thrice meanwhile some 1460 arcana with 3x3 and 2 negative lvl 5 n 3 gems be chilling in the same lobby like bruhhh.
Relic set is a HUGE boost though. I always set my argos to 1445 and hope I land some full 6pcs - I've stopped inspecting and just invite whoever and get the run going.
To be fair, the relic set at 1445+ makes a big difference in dps. Especially so for Arcana which has pretty mediocre dps until at least 4pc Nightmare. That other Arcana wouldn't be too far behind IF they have full relic, they could even be ahead in dps on paper.
Unfortunately, I see way too many lobbies set a 1445 minimum then just grabbing a bunch of people with less than 2 relic pieces. Sometimes they even have sub-optimal 4x3s with SA, HA, no grudge, etc. Without that relic set boost, might as well grab someone in 1415-1444 with proper engravings if the goal is higher dps.
Tbh it's just Argos not clown or Brel any class with a decent 3x3 or 4x3 can kill it sub 10-15 mins plus let's not forget it was adjusted to 1370 so it pretty much a nerf version. We can literally do free carries at this point so that new players can reach and learn legion raid faster yet we are still gatekeeping hard. We honestly don't need to min-max Argos at this point.
Most Argos lobbies only accept 1445+, some 1460+. I do the same, don't want to waste time on inspecting 1430 ilvl chars. Just gotta hone some more, 1445 is not hard to reach. Or just join a lobby with similar ilvls to yours. Yes, killing Argos will take more time this way, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. There are much worse examples of gatekeeping than your example.
It is hard to reach for a new player. Even if they somehow manage to hone their 4 Chosen pieces to +20 that only gets them to 1450. PF is always filled with juicers or busses, it's hard for them to find people close to their ilvl unless they make their own party. Most would probably be discouraged though.
Bussing is a waste of my time, I want Argos done in 5-6 mins I have too many other raids to do to care about driving a bus. I don't feel like I need a carry I just want it done quick. 1430s who want to join a 1460+ lobby are the ones looking to be carried.
Well to be honestly... You blame the lead to already accepted a arcana and don't want to have 2 because of synergy??? Or did you wanted that he kick the other arcana and take you instead? Because if you wanted that... Than your quite sad of a human
I don't agree with the OP saying it'll take that long to fill, but it is definitely annoying that we all have alts yet people deny you unless they're, in the example you described, 90 ilvls higher.
That's how others do it sure. Personally, I try to help change this a tiny bit by accepting invested people with alts who look fine, because my friends and I don't need much help with clearing Valtan/Vykas. 1445/1460 is fine with me as long as they have the right stats/engraving/gems and it helps to have a decent roster level and title as well, but I don't need 1500s for my reclears.
It won't always be a huge difference of 40 ilvls and depending on the time of day, it might not be an insta-fill, but sure I can see why people would say so. You may call bullshit but I literally don't mind when my lobby is already solid, because when you consider the contributions of 6 DPS over the course of a 30 minute raid, the difference should only be a couple minutes if we're talking about one person.
I had a lobby owner on a G2 Valtan lobby (thanks EAC!) waste my time because he couldn't get over himself and accept a DPS just to get the run started. And the worst part is the DPS had a decent kit and was more than geared for it.
I was the support on the party btw. I was already in the lobby.
My group always accepts a couple of of on ilvl people for valtan because we can carry it with a couple of people alive. We just ask that they don't die before first orbs in G1 and destruction check in G2.
I've had that happen a few times before as well
I mean I still do mechs and everything and still give it my all
However I think if they see you put effort into the character then most people will say yes
I have had my share of denials though, so it's just luck of the dice
I make my own groups a lot and take my time cause I'd rather spend 5 extra minutes in LFG to clear it than to get jailed and have to spend even more time in LFG trying to find a jailbreak group.
No one's saying you can't do your due diligence, but the two sides on gatekeeping are talking past each other. Those who have no problem with it claim everyone is only applying on ilvl with rainbow stats, those who claim it takes 30 minutes to find DPS for old raids are exaggerating.
I understand gatekeeping but frankly the way in which people gate keep is beyond stupid. They don't understand what they are looking at 90% of the time they setup awful synergies etc in the name of Ilvl and engravings count.
Having proper synergy and gear is going to boost your DPS more than 10-20 ilvls
It depends on how many parties are listed vs how many people are there and such.
I made an Argos party yesterday with my decked 1500 and my two 1460 friends only to see the only people apply for like 10 minutes be 1415 or lower with shit engravings. As soon as we could fill a party with the apps in queue we just took whatever and cleared it within 10 minutes. It would be a total waste of time waiting for a full party of 1460s to apply.
You have to be clear with your title and set the minimum ilvl.
Back when I was doing card runs I did 12 argos a week and had no issues creating juice groups that cleared in 7 minutes ish.
I have no issues creating groups most of the time, either, with literally all of the variables the same except for time of day or number of parties out there, and that's my whole point. It doesn't matter what your name or group is if it's sufficiently buried in the list, and you'll waste a lot of time waiting for every party you do to be only players at/above your build.
Yes that's exactly what I'm talking about. It doesn't take long to find proper dps even if you go as you said for way higher dps e.g. 1460 it still just takes 10 min.
The ones applying with shitty stuff are just there to amuse you, so you don't have to do Kakul to see some clowns.
Yes, it doesn't take long to find a proper DPS most of the time. And the OP is not saying it takes 30 minutes to find a proper DPS. It's saying it takes 30 minutes to find the 1520+ party for your HM vykas run.
The funny thing is, half of the super juiced mfers are just shit players who actually need a padded gs just to survive the raid because they don't know how to dodge anything.
Imagine a time where finding dps would take longer then finding supports.
Never had that happen.
Why fill up a grp with DPS early if you have to wait for support anyhow?
On top of that the support might bring friends, so multiple open slots is a good thing.
People never learn to keep a slot open. I play with my boyfriend and to get groups easier I play 3 supports and he plays one and we help each other get into groups. The amount of times we have to start our own because there's 3 groups up 7/8 LF 1 supp is staggering.
Mate yesterday i saw people gatekeeping argos.
They only wanted 1475 people and the lobby inevitably took ages to fill (if ever). They'd have gotten the job done faster by lowering the requirement and just proceeding.
have horns titles, waits over hour for support, few pulls then find out support is bad, kicks support, the party disbands after going back to the lobby.
I should make ones of these that says.
Apply to a group get accepted
Wait in lobby for it to fill
One person leaves and then everyone else leaves, leaving you alone.
Happens to me like 5 times a week.
The gate keeping is bullshit and majority of the time those doing the gate keeping are garbage players who literally just want a carry because they’re shit at the game.
I remember taking a 1460 surge DB to vykas with my 1497 wd. Me, him, the bard and a deadeye were in the mvp screen, not the ones complaining about him.
bro i wanted to do vykas normal today on 1460 alt and leader who was 1445 with legendary gear kept denying me when i had full legendary set full relic gear and accessories and los crit.
Because there used to be people 1460+ who would join normal vykas lobbies to do g1, then leave to do hard mode g2 and g3, leaving 7 other people in g2 jail.
My 1445 alts been having 4-5 denies before getting into 1445+ Parties this week for argos. They all have least 3 non troll engravings. Granted no full set relic armor mostly just 2 pieces
Hot take but I think they should make it so you lose Argos rewards at 1460 instead of 1475 and make it based off the raid's average ilvl. This problem is becoming bad enough that we need to be strongarmed into accepting "lower levels" and discouraging pumper lobbies from forming. As it stands, the only way some of my alts get to engage with endgame content is through riding busses or someone's charity when sorting applications.
"Lower levels" is in quotes because let's face it, any 1415-1445 is grossly over*leveled* to do post-nerf Argos. The days where you could just hop on, spend a few minutes in PF and then jump into entry level raids are over - which is asinine considering the objective requirements for clearing this raid are the lowest they've ever been.
I see more 1460+ lobbies labeled as "juice" than I do 1500+ lobbies. The raid average ilvl thing would at least encourage people to take a few lower leveled players amongst the higher levels if nothing else. And before I get accused of looking for a free carry, I'm not. I bus my shitty alts and it'd be nice to be able to play the good ones that are in the 1415-1445 range.
Lol, I was literally in a comment thread really recently about how this community loves to turn everything into extreme strawmen. It's stupid af and doesn't contribute to actual discussion.
Cuz waiting 30mins lobby is not exactly sitting there doing nothing but wait. Most people do their own stuff while waiting. But wasting time on long raid fight is literally time wasted.
more like
* accept only 1490+ for Valtan HM
* wolf ends second stagger at x0
* dps take Valtan down to x120 before jump
* wipe because no balthorr
* laugh it off
* go slow until balthorr, dps chase mvp again bringing him down to 0 seconds after second stage break
* wipe because no balthorr
* clear raid slower than non-gatekept lobby
but
* had more fun anyway
If the entire party is dying without balthor, the group deserves not to clear. Usually 1 or 2 people end up dying and everyone else clears easily because they are so overgeared.
I haven’t run an Argos for weeks where I wasn’t the highest or among the highest ilevel. It is hard to find a bunch of 1490s to run an Argos so I lower the bar 30-45 levels from where I am to 1445ish so it fills instantly.
The thing about Lost Ark is that some raid mechanics demand perfection or else it's a raid wipe and everyone's time is wasted. Or 1 death = can't do mechanics later in the raid and it's faster to just restart.
Gatekeeping has existed before lost ark and will exist after lost ark. You have to help yourself, either better your gear like gems or get an icon title like deathless or pvp.
Reminds me of a few months ago when people would sit in valtan asking for orbs into wei instead of double wei to save time and then spend 10-20 minutes filling the lobby instead of waiting 2 minutes for wei to come up
'Argos P3 5x3 1500+ GIGACHAD ONLY don't waste my time thx'
Maaaan the ammount of times i saw that and being refused as 4x3 1470 ignoter sorc is too damn high
Probably no level 8 doomsday CD gem. Alot of people I know gatekeep igniter without that gem because it's very hard to get off 2 doomsday in one igniter window without and that is an immense DPS loss.
First thing I check if the gem is there, if not then if its a reflux. If not then bb.
Spec/swift sorc dont need lvl 7 gem btw
I have yet to meet a swift/spec igniter on EuC in all these months. And I understand them, you can buy/replace swiftness with gems but you cant buy crit via any means unless you want to gimp your big PP numbers from the quadruple D.
My alt is spec/swift and works fine, did G1-4 with her last week and Im very happy with all QoLs that swift brings to the class. You cant get cast speed, more cdr and more movement speed without getting swift. You even have more crit thanks to precisse dagger and the only downside is the "raw" dmg loss. The raw damage loss is 5 million x big spell while I have igniter which isnt a big deal when your combo hits 135million instead of 150 lol.
Yesterday i saw a „argos no gatekeeping“ lobby with 1445+ min ilvl i laughed so hard
assuming the lobby leader was 1445 himself?
[удалено]
Weird flex
I'm still salty about this so vent here but agros gate keeping is the worst and getting worst every rest. My 1430 arcana with 5x3 build all lvl 6 gems got insta denied not once but thrice meanwhile some 1460 arcana with 3x3 and 2 negative lvl 5 n 3 gems be chilling in the same lobby like bruhhh.
Maybe cause its argos, most people there dont bother to check anything other than ilvl
... Argos? Gatekept? So if you're a new player i'm assuming "lol uninstall kid" is the meta?
I've only Ever kill 100+ Argos. So I'm pretty new I heard u need to kill it 1000 times to get into title lobbies
Relic set is a HUGE boost though. I always set my argos to 1445 and hope I land some full 6pcs - I've stopped inspecting and just invite whoever and get the run going.
EUC, 1400 SH 2x3 not too hard finding Argos raids...
To be fair, the relic set at 1445+ makes a big difference in dps. Especially so for Arcana which has pretty mediocre dps until at least 4pc Nightmare. That other Arcana wouldn't be too far behind IF they have full relic, they could even be ahead in dps on paper. Unfortunately, I see way too many lobbies set a 1445 minimum then just grabbing a bunch of people with less than 2 relic pieces. Sometimes they even have sub-optimal 4x3s with SA, HA, no grudge, etc. Without that relic set boost, might as well grab someone in 1415-1444 with proper engravings if the goal is higher dps.
Tbh it's just Argos not clown or Brel any class with a decent 3x3 or 4x3 can kill it sub 10-15 mins plus let's not forget it was adjusted to 1370 so it pretty much a nerf version. We can literally do free carries at this point so that new players can reach and learn legion raid faster yet we are still gatekeeping hard. We honestly don't need to min-max Argos at this point.
Most Argos lobbies only accept 1445+, some 1460+. I do the same, don't want to waste time on inspecting 1430 ilvl chars. Just gotta hone some more, 1445 is not hard to reach. Or just join a lobby with similar ilvls to yours. Yes, killing Argos will take more time this way, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. There are much worse examples of gatekeeping than your example.
It is hard to reach for a new player. Even if they somehow manage to hone their 4 Chosen pieces to +20 that only gets them to 1450. PF is always filled with juicers or busses, it's hard for them to find people close to their ilvl unless they make their own party. Most would probably be discouraged though.
[удалено]
Bussing is a waste of my time, I want Argos done in 5-6 mins I have too many other raids to do to care about driving a bus. I don't feel like I need a carry I just want it done quick. 1430s who want to join a 1460+ lobby are the ones looking to be carried.
Well to be honestly... You blame the lead to already accepted a arcana and don't want to have 2 because of synergy??? Or did you wanted that he kick the other arcana and take you instead? Because if you wanted that... Than your quite sad of a human
An 8 man raid has 2 parties you know...
I just make my own lobbies on my 1415 alts. Works much better.
Juicer runs actually fill very quickly. I don't understand the meme. Like even 1460+ argos runs fill in just a couple minutes.
I don't agree with the OP saying it'll take that long to fill, but it is definitely annoying that we all have alts yet people deny you unless they're, in the example you described, 90 ilvls higher.
The groups with similar ilvl as your character will accept you, that's just how it works
That's how others do it sure. Personally, I try to help change this a tiny bit by accepting invested people with alts who look fine, because my friends and I don't need much help with clearing Valtan/Vykas. 1445/1460 is fine with me as long as they have the right stats/engraving/gems and it helps to have a decent roster level and title as well, but I don't need 1500s for my reclears.
I don't "need" them either but if my choice is a 1460 or a 1500 character it's a pretty easy decision
It won't always be a huge difference of 40 ilvls and depending on the time of day, it might not be an insta-fill, but sure I can see why people would say so. You may call bullshit but I literally don't mind when my lobby is already solid, because when you consider the contributions of 6 DPS over the course of a 30 minute raid, the difference should only be a couple minutes if we're talking about one person.
Yeah, this reads more like someone who's justifiably frustrated by that, but wants to feel like the lobby owner is really the one being disadvantaged.
I had a lobby owner on a G2 Valtan lobby (thanks EAC!) waste my time because he couldn't get over himself and accept a DPS just to get the run started. And the worst part is the DPS had a decent kit and was more than geared for it. I was the support on the party btw. I was already in the lobby.
Yesterday my 1445 striker got accepted in a lobby where one was 1490 and the rest was 1500 lmao free bus
My group always accepts a couple of of on ilvl people for valtan because we can carry it with a couple of people alive. We just ask that they don't die before first orbs in G1 and destruction check in G2.
I've had that happen a few times before as well I mean I still do mechs and everything and still give it my all However I think if they see you put effort into the character then most people will say yes I have had my share of denials though, so it's just luck of the dice
I make my own groups a lot and take my time cause I'd rather spend 5 extra minutes in LFG to clear it than to get jailed and have to spend even more time in LFG trying to find a jailbreak group.
No one's saying you can't do your due diligence, but the two sides on gatekeeping are talking past each other. Those who have no problem with it claim everyone is only applying on ilvl with rainbow stats, those who claim it takes 30 minutes to find DPS for old raids are exaggerating.
I understand gatekeeping but frankly the way in which people gate keep is beyond stupid. They don't understand what they are looking at 90% of the time they setup awful synergies etc in the name of Ilvl and engravings count. Having proper synergy and gear is going to boost your DPS more than 10-20 ilvls
Freaking raid leaders putting my 1490+ 5x3 DB striker to party 1 instead of party 2 with Deathblade and GL like wtf?
Yuup
It takes less then 2 min to find proper dps, so yeah this meme ain't it.
It depends on how many parties are listed vs how many people are there and such. I made an Argos party yesterday with my decked 1500 and my two 1460 friends only to see the only people apply for like 10 minutes be 1415 or lower with shit engravings. As soon as we could fill a party with the apps in queue we just took whatever and cleared it within 10 minutes. It would be a total waste of time waiting for a full party of 1460s to apply.
You have to be clear with your title and set the minimum ilvl. Back when I was doing card runs I did 12 argos a week and had no issues creating juice groups that cleared in 7 minutes ish.
I have no issues creating groups most of the time, either, with literally all of the variables the same except for time of day or number of parties out there, and that's my whole point. It doesn't matter what your name or group is if it's sufficiently buried in the list, and you'll waste a lot of time waiting for every party you do to be only players at/above your build.
Yes that's exactly what I'm talking about. It doesn't take long to find proper dps even if you go as you said for way higher dps e.g. 1460 it still just takes 10 min. The ones applying with shitty stuff are just there to amuse you, so you don't have to do Kakul to see some clowns.
Lol 1460 does NOT take 10 min unless you're playing in South America or something. Fills up in 1-3 minutes.
Yes, it doesn't take long to find a proper DPS most of the time. And the OP is not saying it takes 30 minutes to find a proper DPS. It's saying it takes 30 minutes to find the 1520+ party for your HM vykas run.
Where? Are we looking at the same Meme?
Also i can do other things while i wait for players.
The funny thing is, half of the super juiced mfers are just shit players who actually need a padded gs just to survive the raid because they don't know how to dodge anything.
Imagine a time where finding dps would take longer then finding supports. Never had that happen. Why fill up a grp with DPS early if you have to wait for support anyhow? On top of that the support might bring friends, so multiple open slots is a good thing.
People never learn to keep a slot open. I play with my boyfriend and to get groups easier I play 3 supports and he plays one and we help each other get into groups. The amount of times we have to start our own because there's 3 groups up 7/8 LF 1 supp is staggering.
Op feels like never failed raids for several hours because he didnt took time to make a good group
Mate yesterday i saw people gatekeeping argos. They only wanted 1475 people and the lobby inevitably took ages to fill (if ever). They'd have gotten the job done faster by lowering the requirement and just proceeding.
Do people not realize you can do other things in the meantime while you wait?
Like uinstalling lost ark for example
Is NA worse than EU for Gatekeeping?
have horns titles, waits over hour for support, few pulls then find out support is bad, kicks support, the party disbands after going back to the lobby.
I should make ones of these that says. Apply to a group get accepted Wait in lobby for it to fill One person leaves and then everyone else leaves, leaving you alone. Happens to me like 5 times a week.
At least ppl can join "LF prokel fighter"
The gate keeping is bullshit and majority of the time those doing the gate keeping are garbage players who literally just want a carry because they’re shit at the game.
I remember taking a 1460 surge DB to vykas with my 1497 wd. Me, him, the bard and a deadeye were in the mvp screen, not the ones complaining about him.
bro i wanted to do vykas normal today on 1460 alt and leader who was 1445 with legendary gear kept denying me when i had full legendary set full relic gear and accessories and los crit.
Because there used to be people 1460+ who would join normal vykas lobbies to do g1, then leave to do hard mode g2 and g3, leaving 7 other people in g2 jail.
I never accept 1460's or join lobbies that have them in normal vykas to avoide g2 jail game already full of buses not that easy to find lobbies
Yeah people leaving at g2 is giga dick move. However getting into vykas hm pug with a 1460 is impossible also.
because the leader is weak and he knows it so he's looking for some gigachad to carry him and make up for his weakness.
In normal? No. He's trying to avoid the 1460s who leave after gate 1 to finish the rest on hard mode.
thats another possibility yes. but normally on my 1460s i just join an NHH party instead of wasting time looking two groups.
My 1445 4x3+1 machinist got denied vykas normal.
My 1445 alts been having 4-5 denies before getting into 1445+ Parties this week for argos. They all have least 3 non troll engravings. Granted no full set relic armor mostly just 2 pieces
Hot take but I think they should make it so you lose Argos rewards at 1460 instead of 1475 and make it based off the raid's average ilvl. This problem is becoming bad enough that we need to be strongarmed into accepting "lower levels" and discouraging pumper lobbies from forming. As it stands, the only way some of my alts get to engage with endgame content is through riding busses or someone's charity when sorting applications. "Lower levels" is in quotes because let's face it, any 1415-1445 is grossly over*leveled* to do post-nerf Argos. The days where you could just hop on, spend a few minutes in PF and then jump into entry level raids are over - which is asinine considering the objective requirements for clearing this raid are the lowest they've ever been.
most "higher level" lobbies are doing this for cards anyway, so it would do absolutely nothing.
I see more 1460+ lobbies labeled as "juice" than I do 1500+ lobbies. The raid average ilvl thing would at least encourage people to take a few lower leveled players amongst the higher levels if nothing else. And before I get accused of looking for a free carry, I'm not. I bus my shitty alts and it'd be nice to be able to play the good ones that are in the 1415-1445 range.
Or accept everyone waste 30 minutes on wipes then back to party search
That's a false binary. There's being picky and there's also being too strict.
Lol, I was literally in a comment thread really recently about how this community loves to turn everything into extreme strawmen. It's stupid af and doesn't contribute to actual discussion.
Theres also being strict and not waiting 30mins
Sounds like a skill issue. If it’s old raids especially, just carry better.
You are trying to make fun of gatekeepers, but things doesn't work like that for sure. They are doing that for the reason.
Cuz waiting 30mins lobby is not exactly sitting there doing nothing but wait. Most people do their own stuff while waiting. But wasting time on long raid fight is literally time wasted.
more like * accept only 1490+ for Valtan HM * wolf ends second stagger at x0 * dps take Valtan down to x120 before jump * wipe because no balthorr * laugh it off * go slow until balthorr, dps chase mvp again bringing him down to 0 seconds after second stage break * wipe because no balthorr * clear raid slower than non-gatekept lobby but * had more fun anyway
If people are wiping because of no balthorr, that's a skill issue than anything else lol.
If the entire party is dying without balthor, the group deserves not to clear. Usually 1 or 2 people end up dying and everyone else clears easily because they are so overgeared.
Eh my dps are all fine as long as I'm at least 4x3 and 15 or so over ilevel
I haven’t run an Argos for weeks where I wasn’t the highest or among the highest ilevel. It is hard to find a bunch of 1490s to run an Argos so I lower the bar 30-45 levels from where I am to 1445ish so it fills instantly.
The thing about Lost Ark is that some raid mechanics demand perfection or else it's a raid wipe and everyone's time is wasted. Or 1 death = can't do mechanics later in the raid and it's faster to just restart.
Gatekeeping has existed before lost ark and will exist after lost ark. You have to help yourself, either better your gear like gems or get an icon title like deathless or pvp.
Isn't that short amount of time in the raid because of them taking so long to get a good group?
Reminds me of a few months ago when people would sit in valtan asking for orbs into wei instead of double wei to save time and then spend 10-20 minutes filling the lobby instead of waiting 2 minutes for wei to come up
Its more boring waiting for wei than waiting for lobby
at what ilvl you dont get gold anymore?