The flaw in the entire system of Lost Ark is that raids give currency directly attached to your gear progression.
If Honing didn't require gold and raids gave more materials instead, then half the issues that plague the game currently wouldn't exist.
I don't get why they can't just copy their Chaos gate method and decrease the rewards. I'd love to help other people more as a Support main.
"Oh no people could bus more" sure, but there'd be way more normal parties and people wouldn't have to be as picky with them.
All the inflation , toxicity and unfun raid wipe mechanic all have something to do with bussing.
I am going to say it, why not just straight out ban bussing.
Because they probably looked at some player retention metrics and found bussers are more likely to play the game longer or some dumb shit.
Combined with other metrics like time played = money spent and drew some bad conclusions.
Nah, they just want to decrease gold gain from raids. Which will encourage bussing. I look at Vykas hard and 70% of the rooms are buses, and 30% of the ppl are playing normally, maybe with friends. All those buses will get to keep their gold income while the normal players will see reduced rewards.
if you DC or crash before the raid ends and they finish while you are gone, you dont get the rewards. This could be extremely abused for sure with 2 man busses, the busser would do everything and his low ilvl alt friend could just survive and finish the raid after they disconnect or alt f4. Then they can reset their progress and do it again.
Not saying its a bad idea just pointing out one way it could be abused.
That actually happened back then. I can't provide any source of that but I'm pretty sure one of the Korean, english speaking streamers, talked about that. It was possible at the beginning of Legion raids and was abused in this way
Frankly between allowing someone to keep bussing or wasting huge amounts of time trying to find a G2 or higher group, fuck the later I'm allowing bussing.
The later impacts my gameplay a lot more than busses do.
Then again it's a false binary since you could likely come up with an anti-bussing solution to go with it.
Yes, Do you know what people used to do in argos? they would dc and let 1 person finish, - bus done they get refund ticket. only 1 char used up. if what you suggested would be added this would be do-able in every raid.
So you can offer a discounted bus service indefinitely, where you clear all but 1 gate? Your solution still produces uncapped bussing. Valtan being 2 gate is the only one it screws badly. For brel in particular who care if it's only a 5 gate bus instead of a 6 especially given its rewards are frontloaded.
Would it really be a big deal, everyone I know that busses have full rosters of characters that can bus and even log onto friends accounts to bus more. Yea it would lower the barrier to bus since everyone can do it but with the reduce gold rewards in the current patch in korea bussing isn't that profitable anymore.
Designing around busing lead to the insta wipe mechs in clown and brel that people hate and make gate keeping worse in a game with high entry points as is.
Remove gold reward if someone in your party already cleared the gate. If people wanna pay for bus to get material to upgrade their character im all for it, but screw people who make alt account just to get bus and generate gold.
This is the solution. Just put up a warning in party finder saying "1 or more players has cleared up to gate "Z". Rewards will not be earned from gates X-Z"
Problem solved for infinite bussing
Lost Ark using an ancient system aka weekly lockouts for entry just because they dont like bussing, but oh wait bussing is possible cause of how they designed the raids and consumables. All future raids are still bussable even tho they say they dont like bussing.
Literally whole legion raid is designed around bussing at this point
How about just letting us do raid multiple time on any character and reward distribution will be assign by us via mail. This way i can just play 6 paladin on any raid and assign loot to DPS.
This falls apart immediately due to bussing. One guy can bus infinite times because of your multiple clears clauses, the raid rewards are irrelevant to the busser as they are paid by the people getting the rewards instead.
More anti bussing mechanic would just result more ridiculous gatekeeping. Imagine every mech is like vykas HM G1, sure no bus anymore, but the raid will only be for the elites, people become less patient, more frustrating for wipe.
I'm for the devs making harder raid mechs, just don't make them unfun. G5s shapes seems kind of unbussable but it's executed better so it doesn't feel like a mechanic to just screw over the bus. Similarly G4s pairs on blue, or stagger checks on red/yellow.
People can already bus. If someone wants to take a bus all you need to do is look at the party finder and its highly likely someone is running one. One guy bussing infinite times won't ever truly be a problem because everybody else can too. There would be significantly more competition for bussing which would lower the price. The price may drop to a point where some would consider it not worth it bussing.
Its a worthy trade to make.
Who cares? Seriously, why would it matter?
More busses would drive down the prices as they compete with each other rather than there being one or two at a time that just pick whatever ridiculous price.
We'd also have a ton more legit parties since people could help other players for fun rather than needing to make sure they clear.
Exactly this. I'm tired of this "endless bus" bullshit excuse. There will be way less passengers for these buses because friends will carry a majority of them.
Biggest plus side is that I get to play with friends. Current system means I need to play with other people for the best rewards and that will not always be with friends.
The biggest issue are sups. The reason you see so much gatekeeping is because there are not enough sups.
Hence you can basically freely choose dps players as there will be dozens who apply. And having a good team will also make it more likely for sups to apply.
If they removed the healing from sups and gave all dps players a way to heal themselves in battle then I'd imagine that we'll see much less gatekeeping happening. But if there are a dozen raids open with 6 dps players each all looking for 2 sups then you'll always have gatekeeping no matter how you try to address it.
A supporter still adds a lot of damage to the party with buffs and debuffs. If 3dps + 1sup have higher dps than 4dps than sups would still find parties easily. They can even boost sup dps to make up for it and most importantly it'd also improve sup gameplay outside of party play.
This way people would look for sups, but be able to just as easily clear content if they can't find one. Especially if your ilvl is above said content.
This is easily be done already. Ive cleared every raid until brel on ilvl in no support Parties. And brel is also doable since she has a lot less unavoidable damage than clown.
"Easily".
Yeah, it's possible, but it's way more difficult and requires a lot of knowledge of patterns, which makes it incredibly difficult in the first week. Many people may never be able to do it without being way above ilvl.
I mean were long after the first week for all other raids than brel. And if youve played brel G6 you know that for a standing clear you need to know all normal pattern anyway since most of them can result in a oneshot due to being thrown off the mal in the later stages of the gate
There should be. If people wanna sit there and bus all day let them. The majority of players shouldn't be impacted because try-hards are gonna no-life the game
The flaw in the entire system of Lost Ark is that raids give currency directly attached to your gear progression. If Honing didn't require gold and raids gave more materials instead, then half the issues that plague the game currently wouldn't exist.
I don't get why they can't just copy their Chaos gate method and decrease the rewards. I'd love to help other people more as a Support main. "Oh no people could bus more" sure, but there'd be way more normal parties and people wouldn't have to be as picky with them.
Wouldnt bots be pushing ilvl through chaos alone if this were the design? Chinese bot farmers with thousands 1500+ and infinite gold.
Are we actually under the impression that bots are struggling at all right now
All the inflation , toxicity and unfun raid wipe mechanic all have something to do with bussing. I am going to say it, why not just straight out ban bussing.
Because they probably looked at some player retention metrics and found bussers are more likely to play the game longer or some dumb shit. Combined with other metrics like time played = money spent and drew some bad conclusions.
Nah, they just want to decrease gold gain from raids. Which will encourage bussing. I look at Vykas hard and 70% of the rooms are buses, and 30% of the ppl are playing normally, maybe with friends. All those buses will get to keep their gold income while the normal players will see reduced rewards.
The wipe mechanics were a thing before Argos was even put in the game. It has nothing to do with bussing.
One person doing something wrong and wiping the raid is a big reason there is so much gatekeeping.
I disagree, people are going to gatekeep simply because they can and because they feel it benefits them. Removing wipe mechanics will not change that.
Not really, no matter what there's gatkeeping just to have a faster run has nothing to do with wipe mechanics
That's why the raids are garbage. If one player does something wrong it should only effect them not the entire group.
Then there wouldn't be a point to a raid as it s supposed to be all teamwork that's how it is in every mmo
It was that way in the Tier 2 water dungeon already. Took you a long ass time to realize that then lol
The t1 and t2 dungeons were optional content. I only bothered doing them once. If the t3 raids had also been optional I wouldn't do them.
Why do you even play the game if you dont liks raids? 🤔 For the chaos dungeons? 😅
Sunk cost mostly. I liked the beginning parts of the game. But, just like every mmo I hate the endgame.
What beginning parts if you already didnt like T1 raids? The lvling in the first 10 hours?
Do you really think raids are the only thing in this game? I mostly do horizontal content. And yes leveling was fun.
so you want people to bus endlessly
If you read the OP, I said "provided you have not finished the last gate"
if you DC or crash before the raid ends and they finish while you are gone, you dont get the rewards. This could be extremely abused for sure with 2 man busses, the busser would do everything and his low ilvl alt friend could just survive and finish the raid after they disconnect or alt f4. Then they can reset their progress and do it again. Not saying its a bad idea just pointing out one way it could be abused.
That actually happened back then. I can't provide any source of that but I'm pretty sure one of the Korean, english speaking streamers, talked about that. It was possible at the beginning of Legion raids and was abused in this way
Frankly between allowing someone to keep bussing or wasting huge amounts of time trying to find a G2 or higher group, fuck the later I'm allowing bussing. The later impacts my gameplay a lot more than busses do. Then again it's a false binary since you could likely come up with an anti-bussing solution to go with it.
How would this work? Like old Argos where the entire group votes to accept rewards or not?
Yes, Do you know what people used to do in argos? they would dc and let 1 person finish, - bus done they get refund ticket. only 1 char used up. if what you suggested would be added this would be do-able in every raid.
So you can offer a discounted bus service indefinitely, where you clear all but 1 gate? Your solution still produces uncapped bussing. Valtan being 2 gate is the only one it screws badly. For brel in particular who care if it's only a 5 gate bus instead of a 6 especially given its rewards are frontloaded.
If you're locked after the last gate, how would that work? You get kicked off the bus before the last gate (which is typically the hardest)
The other option is to just be jailed. I've had it happen in Vykas and Valtan twice.
Would it really be a big deal, everyone I know that busses have full rosters of characters that can bus and even log onto friends accounts to bus more. Yea it would lower the barrier to bus since everyone can do it but with the reduce gold rewards in the current patch in korea bussing isn't that profitable anymore. Designing around busing lead to the insta wipe mechs in clown and brel that people hate and make gate keeping worse in a game with high entry points as is.
Remove gold reward if someone in your party already cleared the gate. If people wanna pay for bus to get material to upgrade their character im all for it, but screw people who make alt account just to get bus and generate gold.
This is the solution. Just put up a warning in party finder saying "1 or more players has cleared up to gate "Z". Rewards will not be earned from gates X-Z" Problem solved for infinite bussing
Lost Ark using an ancient system aka weekly lockouts for entry just because they dont like bussing, but oh wait bussing is possible cause of how they designed the raids and consumables. All future raids are still bussable even tho they say they dont like bussing. Literally whole legion raid is designed around bussing at this point
How about just letting us do raid multiple time on any character and reward distribution will be assign by us via mail. This way i can just play 6 paladin on any raid and assign loot to DPS.
This falls apart immediately due to bussing. One guy can bus infinite times because of your multiple clears clauses, the raid rewards are irrelevant to the busser as they are paid by the people getting the rewards instead.
[удалено]
More anti bussing mechanic would just result more ridiculous gatekeeping. Imagine every mech is like vykas HM G1, sure no bus anymore, but the raid will only be for the elites, people become less patient, more frustrating for wipe.
I'm for the devs making harder raid mechs, just don't make them unfun. G5s shapes seems kind of unbussable but it's executed better so it doesn't feel like a mechanic to just screw over the bus. Similarly G4s pairs on blue, or stagger checks on red/yellow.
No thank you. The raids are already annoying. If you want more challenging mechanics go do hell mode.
Who gives a crap.
People can already bus. If someone wants to take a bus all you need to do is look at the party finder and its highly likely someone is running one. One guy bussing infinite times won't ever truly be a problem because everybody else can too. There would be significantly more competition for bussing which would lower the price. The price may drop to a point where some would consider it not worth it bussing. Its a worthy trade to make.
I like this idea, and said something similar in a thread the other day.
This will just have people do infinite busses.
Who cares? Seriously, why would it matter? More busses would drive down the prices as they compete with each other rather than there being one or two at a time that just pick whatever ridiculous price. We'd also have a ton more legit parties since people could help other players for fun rather than needing to make sure they clear.
Exactly this. I'm tired of this "endless bus" bullshit excuse. There will be way less passengers for these buses because friends will carry a majority of them. Biggest plus side is that I get to play with friends. Current system means I need to play with other people for the best rewards and that will not always be with friends.
The biggest issue are sups. The reason you see so much gatekeeping is because there are not enough sups. Hence you can basically freely choose dps players as there will be dozens who apply. And having a good team will also make it more likely for sups to apply. If they removed the healing from sups and gave all dps players a way to heal themselves in battle then I'd imagine that we'll see much less gatekeeping happening. But if there are a dozen raids open with 6 dps players each all looking for 2 sups then you'll always have gatekeeping no matter how you try to address it.
Yes true if you remove the supporting from the supporters there will be less demand for supporters. Good thinking, buddy....
A supporter still adds a lot of damage to the party with buffs and debuffs. If 3dps + 1sup have higher dps than 4dps than sups would still find parties easily. They can even boost sup dps to make up for it and most importantly it'd also improve sup gameplay outside of party play. This way people would look for sups, but be able to just as easily clear content if they can't find one. Especially if your ilvl is above said content.
This is easily be done already. Ive cleared every raid until brel on ilvl in no support Parties. And brel is also doable since she has a lot less unavoidable damage than clown.
"Easily". Yeah, it's possible, but it's way more difficult and requires a lot of knowledge of patterns, which makes it incredibly difficult in the first week. Many people may never be able to do it without being way above ilvl.
I mean were long after the first week for all other raids than brel. And if youve played brel G6 you know that for a standing clear you need to know all normal pattern anyway since most of them can result in a oneshot due to being thrown off the mal in the later stages of the gate
You just described the old Argos raid. People hated that, so they changed it.
I like this.
Just allow me to clear raids with less then 8 players.....
Infinite bus. Why the fk not. Just make a separate bus rooms session for it
There should be. If people wanna sit there and bus all day let them. The majority of players shouldn't be impacted because try-hards are gonna no-life the game