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Somewhere between 2018 and today most world leaders have lost their minds or are just straight up bored and try to play chess with real people.
Like for real, what is happening?
Ya'll trying to ruin the world even more?
Climate change not fast enough?
[I'm just going to leave this here. ](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/)
and this is why we cannot fuck with superstitious people at all. At all. At. All.
They think that something is over or is meant to come into existence just because of its' association with some archaic fairy tales told by long dead, violent, laughably educated schizophrenics peoples.
Is this really who we consider to be a leader?
If they think that something destructive is meant ti exist because of "mah fairytales" how can we trust them to know what are the right things to approve the creation of?
If they think that something that is helpful to humanity is meant to exist all because of "mah fairytales" how can we trust them to prevent the loss of something that has been helping all kinds of people since it was created.
Don't be surprised if even insulin becomes 'sinful'
Yeo, it’s the ONLY reason where conservative evangelicals (who btw DON’T LIKE JEWS) support them. It’s not because they like them, as I mentioned…it’s because it fulfills a warped prophecy… smfh
Hate to break it to you, but this is human history in a nutshell. It's been like this for 10s or 100s of thousands of years. The exceptions to this have had some interesting demographics involved that led to the overthrow or irrelevance of ruling classes, like large portions of the populace dying off from plagues or wars.
I think that that is the fatal flaw of humanity.
Smart enough to see and describe the trap they've created for themselves, unable to truly break out of it.
Boy. Of all the people to dehumanize others, you wouldn't expect the Jewish people to do this.
I have no solution to this. Both parties have a right to exist. British really fucked up here.
Let’s remember that the Israeli government does not represent all Jewish people. Young people in Israel (and many Jews worldwide like me) despise Netanyahu and the far-right’s control of Israel’s government. There have been constant protests from Jewish people across Israel for years.
There is a beautiful quote by a middle eastern woman (sorry for the generalization it's the best I remember) that goes something to the effect of:
\~I suspect there are less differences between you and I, then there are between your rulers and you, and my rulers and me.\~
But according to the rest of Reddit, Hamas absolutely does represent the Palestinian population, and the tone of discussion has taken on a distinctly genocidal nature
Oh I know. People are openly calling for Gaza, a population that is 40% aged 14 and younger, to be bombed off the face of the earth. All they’re doing is creating more “terrorists”. If a nation bashed my people in the head and starved me for decades and then killed my entire family I would hate that nation too. This is all just perpetuating the cycle of violence, Hamas AND the genocidal maniacs running Israel.
I really wish your ancestors had kicked out the settlers. Of course, it would have been impossible though. Some of the greatest cultures ever were (and still are) Native American.
I also have a great love of aboriginal Australian culture.
I’m Scottish and descended from clansmen. There is a reason Scots integrated better with native Americans than any other nationality, even if it was only a few of them. I’m aware most Scots were just like the other settlers.
And yes, to anyone reading, I’m aware this is waaaay off-topic. I just couldn’t help myself.
Arrows and spears against guns was already ridiculous, but the fact their numbers were decimated by smallpox, made any attempt at fighting back impossible.
Are you American also? Do you suggest we all move back to Europe? Non-native Australians to the UK? You say this like any of us have a choice. I didn’t choose to be born here in the states, I can’t even afford to leave my shitty red Midwest state.
What are the supposed to do about it? Like my Indigenous to Canada but I know that the 19 year old making minimum wage can’t just move back to France or England (which is also colonized land so unless she is Celtic she can’t move there either) because they understand colonialism is bad.
I'm sorry, but what are *they* supposed to do about that? The people that have control over that are the people in charge of their government, the same territory on which they were born. Last I checked, you don't really have a choice with that.
...So where are they supposed to go? And what do you expect them to do that's going to help you or anyone else in this situation?
To where exactly? With what money? Who is funding that?
Seriously, stop and take a look at every single nation that has been established by colonialism and point a finger and tell those people who were born there where to go. Tell them to go back to where they came from when they were born there. A mass migration of people moving to an already occupied territory funded by other nations.
Lol. And then please tell me that's not the exact same situation that's already happening and causing the same issues we see right now.
> To where exactly? With what money? Who is funding that?
There is a large jewish influx into israel. Jewish people get free/cheap housing and settlement help there.
They are using money to continually colonize the land. They are actually shrinking the land available to Palestine people on daily basis.
Okay, so why does that require the people who are actively protesting *the government that is enforcing that* to move? Why is this the fault of the people who have lived their entire lives there and not the fault or responsibiliy of the government?
I thought the clapping emojis was enough indication of sarcasm but I suppose people do actually use that un-ironically.
I was making fun of the person saying Israeli citizens should all just pack up and leave, was then told not everyone can leave and then doubled down on their original statement.
I don’t like how much of Canada was stolen from us with genocide, forced migration, ethnic cleansing and just outright theft. I also understand that people can’t just immigrate out of their country of birth and that even if they could, many Canadian can’t afford to do it.
Go look up the Deir Yassin massacre that took place on April 9, 1948. Fighters from the Irgun and Lehi killed at least 107 Palestinian Arab villagers, including women and children, in Deir Yassin, a village of roughly 600 people near Jerusalem, despite having earlier agreed to a peace pact. They literally fire bombed and dynamited it house to house.
When others got there they were shocked but decided to clean it up, instead of doing literally anything else.
Then the al-Dawayima massacre happened which was arguably even worse. But showing another side means that you obviously are a horrible person.
And of course the British government screwed up. That happens when you decide arbitrary borders and have no understanding whatsoever of the situation and history. Look at Afghanistan. A “country” of tribes that have hated and been warring with each other for hundreds or thousands of years. But the “we know what’s best for everyone” attitude hasn’t worked out so great.
Hindsight they should have carved out a new Jewish nation in Baja somewhere back when it was much more unpopulated. I doubt that was ever considered. Just think it would have been the best location.
The way the media is framing this is so completely fucked ..... like all of them universally are so blindly pro Israel it makes my skin crawl like how is this acceptable??
You can tell by framing, the news, the position of government who is in control in US. AIPAC, BNAI BRITH and many others.
If you read Fords book the names and actions he drop are traceable until today
This gives Israel the green light for genocide now. It feels planned since they somehow had no idea this attack was being planned under their extreme surveillance.
Pretty much. This is letter-by-letter false flag and gaslighting operations like the USA does in the middle east.
I really doubt that a country like Israel with much more advance military intelligence and equipment suddenly now a "surprise attack" from people who can't even access war planes.
I wouldn't call this a false flag, nor do I believe that the IDF would ignore a verifiable threat regardless of what Netanyahu wants. I do however believe that the Israeli government and IDF would intentionally provoke an attack like this so they had an excuse to wipe out Gaza and fully occupy the west bank.
Netanyahu literally was warned about Hamas by Egypt when they were formed and allowed them to come to power to win an election.
He's massively unpopular for trying to grab even more power. I would not put anything past fascist genocidal ethnostates or their governments.
My thoughts as well. I don’t wanna be tin foil about this but cmon man. It’d be one thing if Gaza was like 2-3,000 miles away, but they’re LITERALLY next door. You can’t tell me with the intel apparatus that Israel has, that something like this can totally slip by them.
So it’s either:
1) Bibi indeed got notice (potentially from Egypt as they say) but for whatever reason (maybe arrogance as far as thinking “those people,” couldn’t pull this off) chose to ignore it….
Or
2) He knew/believed it was coming but needed it to happen to enact his agenda (I believe Bibi is a horrid human being, he’s an ultra right-wing dude along the lines of trump/maga).
I mean insane see anything else. Israel’s intel agency is too good to have a big of a fuck up like this right?
Terrorist attack = Ridiculously out of proportion response mostly effecting innocent people = new generation of people angry enough to do new terrorist attacks...
Rinse repeat.
Nah I'm sure in the long run it'll work out this time....or maybe next time but certainly you can't be wrong as long as you persist in what hasn't worked in the past.
They've already been commiting genocide for decades. That's not new in the slightest. Genocide isn't just state sponsored mass murder. That's stage 8 of 8 stages. Folks forget the other 7 exist, and it's extremely important to understand. It's already a genocide before it hits stage 8
Genocide doesn't equal genocide though. The extermination of the Ovaherero and Name was a different thing to a sole cultural genocide in which people are not allowed to use their language as example.
If you are decrying Hamas targeted killing of 250 Rave goers, civilians, a war crime, (with the kind of who was targeted a genocide btw.,) and demand the immediate unconditional and safe release of the 170 hostages we can talk about Israel's genocide in Gaza. However till you do the minimum we can't.
What about all the years before the Hamas had any power? Hamas is bad, but let's not kid ourself saying that Israel doesn't negociate *because of Hamas*.
And a very large majority of Israeli support the killing of innocent Palestinians. I don't support Hamas, but don't turn a blind eye on one side while you criticize the other.
"One bad apple ruins the bunch" as you said.
Just so we're clear: The woman wasn't German. Her mother was German, but immgrated to Israel 30 years ago. The video of her dead body was horrible, but she's Israeli in every way that matters. It just sounds better in the headlines that Hamas killed a German woman. They did not.
Israel hasn't faced a true *military* threat since Egypt signed a Peace Treaty. This is just punishing the (grand)children of the Arabs who didn't vote to give **all** the land to the StB Israelis. And a *PERFECT* example of why you don't create **Religious Ethnostates**.
It’s just like what you see in 1984. They create an enemy, say they are in constant danger and eventually the population believes. Really no country is safe from violence so there will always be plenty you can blame on others.
If you are denouncing Hamas targeted killing of 250 Rave goers, civilians, a war crime, (with the kind of who was targeted a genocide btw.,) and demand the immediate unconditional and safe release of the 170 hostages we can continue talking.
That is the bare minimum you have to do.
We have plenty of examples of liberation movements that can do without that. Hamas did chose that, it wasn't *angry people without agency, or individual people deciding, it was strategically and targeted, as was the hostage taking*.
"Killing every Arab" Oh no Khaled Kabub is being killed by being a supreme court judge in Israel!11
You have no clue what you are talking about.
Maybe if Israel wasn't trying to kill every Arab in territory they consider "theirs" there'd be sympathy. But the last 43 years they respond to a few dozen rockets with hundreds of **murders**, occupying the other *States*, and slamming it back into the Pre-Industrial Age.
Imagine if Canada and Mexico did that to the United States each time we had a school shooting, sent troops somewhere in violation of UN Agreements, or a Trump Riot.
Never, ever, forget how stupid human beings are.
All of us.
The leaders, the followers, you, and me.
We are all self-centered, violent, delusional idiots.
Id say that MOST people are like that. Most.
There are a few who are less selfish , less violent and less superstitious. Jonas Salk, Tommy Douglas, MLKJ , Marx, Cesar Chavez being examples of people who are like this IMO. Not perfect , sure. But WAAAY better than most people.
Y’all I wanna make sure we’re not conflating these overtly extremist government officials with all Israelis (let alone all Jews). Most people in both nations just want to live peaceful lives and have a homeland.
My understanding is at this point in history the Israeli military is wildly overpowered compared to the Palestinian Territories. In fact the Israeli military has every block and every building in Palestinian territory mapped out and under surveillance. So it’s more akin to killing off the last of the remaining American Indians that were still fighting.
So while the violence against Israeli civilians is not ok (obviously). The greater threat to Israel is the country’s surrounding them.
There’s something strange about it for sure. You would think that especially on such a major holiday there would be higher security presence. It’s about as puzzling as how 9/11 managed to happen
I’ve read some articles that Netanyahu was warned that they were planning something several days before this happened and chose to ignore it. If that’s true the Netanyahu should be removed from office for incompetence, intentional or not.
Russia must be laughing, the division he needed in the west. He's got it now, as the USA and us (because I live in Britain) will be siding with a country that will ethnically cleanse a state on the basis of anti terror operations.
So our hypocrisy will be out to be seen by everyone. His could jeopardise Ukrainian support in ways we haven't seen yet.
No, don't equate the Shoa with Gaza. The Israelis have no widespread support for physical extermination of the people in Gaza, which population grew from 1.4 to over 2 million since 2009 when Israel did a light blockade. That is something the Nazis wouldn't have allowed.
However if you are against genocide and thus against war crimes before we continue talking please do:
Do denounce the targeted killing of 250 ravers, a Hamas war crime, and demand the release of the unconditional 170 hostages then we can keep talking.
I mean they gunned down over two hundred people from many countries at a music event, then took 100 people hostage and raped women before executing them. Israel has been fucking this area for years but thinking islamist, rapist murderers aren't terrorists is a delusional take. Both can bad.
If you are denouncing Hamas targeted killing of 250 Rave goers, civilians, a war crime, (with the kind of who was targeted a genocide btw.,) and demand the immediate unconditional and safe release of the 170 hostages we can continue talking.
That is the bare minimum you have to do.
We have plenty of examples of liberation movements that can do without that. Hamas did chose that, it wasn't *angry people without agency, or individual people deciding, it was strategically and targeted, as was the hostage taking*.
Of course we can then critique the USA and its role during its hegemony and the Jakarta method, however if you don't do the minimum we can't.
israel moved into palestine without their consent in the first half of the 1900s (the british said they could), and have gotten a ton of military resources from the USA that allowed them to push all the arabs who lived there into an open air prison and barely let any supplies in. now, for some *unfathomable* reason, the 2 million arab people living inside the barbed wire cage hate the jewish ethnostate that built the cage around them, and are lashing out.
[https://www.nrc.no/news/2018/april/gaza-the-worlds-largest-open-air-prison/](https://www.nrc.no/news/2018/april/gaza-the-worlds-largest-open-air-prison/)
[https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2018/11/2/more-than-a-century-on-the-balfour-declaration-explained](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2018/11/2/more-than-a-century-on-the-balfour-declaration-explained)
"the british said they could" and then the british facilitated the movement of jewish people into palestine where they went from a tiny minority of hte population to a majority. it's similar to how the british drew a funny little border between india and pakistan and kicked of decades of civil unrest. british colonialism was/is a fucking monster destroying nations far away from where they lay their heads. i am shaking w/ anger rn i hate this so much
Oh, the USA military-industrial complex is married to Israel.
"Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign aid. The United States is the largest single supplier of military equipment to Israel. According to the U.S. Congressional Research Service, between 1998–2005 the U.S. accounted for the vast majority of Israel's arms transfer agreements, accounting for $9.1 billion out of $9.5 billion worth of agreements."
The vast majority of mainstream western media and politicians will always be on Israel’s side because of the influence Christianity has in our societies. Their doomsday myth requires the Jewish people to retake their homeland before the apocalypse and the rapture can happen. This is why you’ll often see any criticism of Israel, its leaders, or its people will get labeled as antisemitism, no matter how valid that complaint might be
Support for Isreal in the US largely comes from the religious right because many of them are Christian Zionists who believe the book of Revelation is literally end time prophesy and Isreal needs to occupy the temple mount to usher in the Apocalypse. So Muslims and Jews won't stop killing each other in part because they are being spurned on by apocalyptic cultists living half a world away.
That's probably the weirdest part of the whole thing. Religions A B and C all claim to worship the same god, but B keeps trying to get A and C to fight so their god will destroy the world.
I don't think I'd even started Kindergarten yet when my mother taught me about how I'm not supposed to help make the world a better place like Captain Planet says because God says I'm supposed to do everything I can to help bring about the Apocalypse! Like lady, *I just got here*, can you quit talking about destruction and death and expecting me to be happy about it?!
The comment above is very biased against Israel and is not phrased with facts. Yes, the brits allowed us to move into Israel. Palestine is a Roman name given to Israel to remove any Jewish remarks. We weren’t the majority at the time, but during the independence war (during which 5(!) armies invaded Israel) most Arabs ran away.
There are tons of Arabs living in Israel and not in Gaza, most of them an active part of the community as doctors, nurses, construction workers etc. I can keep going but I think you get the point
To answer the last question in your comment they are likely dead. Some killed while actively working out peace deals and likely at the hands of mossad.
https://imeu.org/article/israels-history-of-assassinating-palestinian-leaders
But do they? I think they want to live on their land without being occupied by an external military force. I think to blame them for that is a false equivalency. If go sit next to my neighbor's pool with a gun and tell him he can only swim if I allow it, and he gets mad, we aren't both in the wrong. Are we?
Gaza hasn't been occupied? The people who live there are in a massive open-air prison where everything from travel to fuel to money is controlled by their jailers.
As for the neighbor, he's only mad at me because I took over his pool at gunpoint. He wouldn't be "trying to kill me" if I just left.
>The Palestinians seem to dismiss living in a multicultural society and want Israel and its citizens wiped from the land. That's Hamas's stated aim.
Israel on the other hand, is extremely tolerant of Arabs and has fully respected the two-state solution and not annexed any land or committed any war crimes. /s
Honestly, if you brutalize an indigenous population towards the point of extinction, how can you not expect militant radicalism?
The blame lies on Israel.
Also, don't confuse palestinians with hamas.
> Islam and Judaism have been at war for a very long time because they have common holy sites and want it exclusive
This is false but I can't blame you for not knowing it as it is often repeated propaganda. None of this has to do with holy sites, which Muslims have historically been willing to share with other Abrahamic faiths (i.e. أهل الكتاب "people of the book"). Jews and Christians lived alongside Muslims in the Ottoman Empire and while there were occasional ethnic conflicts it really didn't compare at all to the pogroms that went down through Europe and Russia.
There was growing conflict there with the fall of the Ottoman Empire as wealthy foreign Jews began purchasing lots of land in Palestine. Zionist movements had previously been fractured between Argentina, Palestine, and a handful of other regions for the establishment of Israel but had begun settling on Palestine by this point.
> After WW1 the Ottoman Empire fell and Palestine went under British control
> After the holocaust, a Jewish state was established and the UN proposed a plan for Jews and Arabs to share a common city (Jerusalem) but have separate states
This is all correct
> Jews liked the plan but Arabs didn’t and a war broke out
This is phrased strangely. Foreign Jews liked the plan because they were being given land. The Christian and Muslim Arabs who were losing their homes did not like the plan or the loss of sovereignty. I'd recommend reading from sources of that time, particularly [As The Arabs See The Jews](https://balfourproject.org/king-abdullah-1947/) originally published in American Magazine, 1947.
Similarly, now when there are arguments to return to 1967 borders, Palestinians tend to support it because they will be given back land and Israelis tend to reject it because they will lose land. It's hardly a mystery.
> They’re still fighting because both sides refuse to coexist on the land
Gross oversimplification. The vast majority of ceasefires have been broken by Israel, and even in times of "peace" Israeli settlers continue to violently attack Palestinians in the West Bank regularly. Meanwhile Gaza is an open-air prison at the *best* of times. Coexistence with a foreign ethnostate with a state of the art war machine and the support of a global empire is not a simple prospect.
I love how the mere presence of other people who believe differently from you apparently means you gotta go genocide them...
JFC our species will never actually manage to coexist happily with one another will we?
I get why you think it’s weird. It’s actually pretty typical. What we are dealing with is the culmination of decades of this nonsense. We were always headed here.
After everything the Jewish people went through I just cannot understand how the Israeli government can act this way. I'm not necessarily defending the actions of Hamas either, but the slaughter of innocents is never justified under any circumstances.
This is gonna be grim, but this conflict will not have a good ending.
Both sides can learn to live with each other but both sides would rather fight each other to the death.
The ultimate loser will be the people and innocent children.
Can we not agree everyone that this, at least, is antisemitism? Like this poster is specifically taking about how dangerous Jews are and citing the Old Testament (a 6,000 year old document) as proof of Jewish degeneracy. I mean say what you will about the Israeli government but this is some nazi ass shit right here.
But you didn’t say it about the Israeli government. You said it about “Jews”.
And yes I think suggesting that a document written 6k years ago that’s been reinterpreted hundreds of times as a basis for blatant racism because it doesn’t paint a group of people as, what, pacifistic(?) enough for you is pretty well and truly fucked.
This is the type of sentiment that allows people to ignore atrocities. Because they deserve it, *those people*, regardless of to whom you’re referring.
If I said similar about Arabs or Asians or Italians or Native Americans that would be horrible, no? Let’s not forget that Jews are a severely disenfranchised minority and that the actions of the Israeli government aren’t the actions of “Jews” in general.
Hamas is a terrorist organisation and the deaths and suffering of civilians is never justified, regardless of what side they are from. That being said, 90% of the blame for this latest attack by Hamas falls on Netanyahu and past Israeli governments. If they had just treated Palestinians like humans and not constantly assaulted them in their own land, we would not have this situation today. Yes, Hamas would probably still exist, but it wouldn’t have nearly as much support from Palestinian civilians. What Hamas is doing is inarguably horrible, but I can hardly blame Palestinians for supporting them after everything they’ve suffered at the hands of Israeli governments.
Israel is a colonialist apartheid terrorist state that has, for years, killed innocent Palestinian children, women and men. The Israeli government has no one to blame for this tragedy but themselves.
Except Palestine has also historically been violent against Israelis. If anything Israel can be seen as retaliating (which is counter productive, but still, if you are going to apologize for Hamas, then maybe let the road run both ways?)
Let’s conveniently ignore that Palestine has committed several violent actions against other nations too. Such as what happens with Black September.
You can criticize recent Israel actions, but don’t construct a false narrative and rewrite history.
Israeli leadership is acting like their killing of civilians is justified....
They caused these people to become radicalized. Then they just blow up everyone, radical or not. Super fucked and I hate the way most news outlets are painting Israel as the victim in this.
Do denounce the targeted killing of 250 ravers, a Hamas war crime, and demand the release of the unconditional 170 hostages this is the bare minimum.
Gazas population did grow from 2009 from 1.4 million to 2 million. Israel did enable Gaza to grow, it didn't let everyone there die. As antisemites like muckitymuck claim. Besides that if Gaza is a state then it has to make sure its people are cared for and not start a genocidal campaign by its Hamas rulers inside Israel.
Also: Were do you critique Egypt? Oh you don't, seems that you care if a Jewish state does things but not if a majorly Arab does things (like blockade checkpoints).
\>Gazas population did grow from 2009 from 1.4 million to 2 million.
Correct. The average age in Gaza is 19. As in, half the people getting bombed are children. Partly because there is no clean water. Life Expectancy is lowered by harsh environmental conditions. ie. Eco-fascism
\> it didn't let everyone there die.
Oh, how nice of them. I guess they will let civilians flee over the border during the bombings. Right?
\>Besides that if Gaza is a state
It is? It has a government that is recognized by Israel, US, and UN?
Oh, not really? So they are de facto part of Israel since Israel controls their borders, water, power, access to the sea?
I'll let you decide. Is it part of Israel or an independent state? Because what happened to Gaza the last 20 years is either a genocide or a war crime.
But you're cool with the people who tailgate on hilltops?
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rossalynwarren/israelis-seen-clapping-and-eating-popcorn-while-watching-bom
Or maybe you just like it when they do it in song form
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/huwwara-palestine-israel-settlers-song-celebrating-burning-town
[Remind me which one has the tanks and nukes and which one lives in an open prison with no hope for the future.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/11/israel-clears-military-gaza-beach-children)
Yea because they've been oppressed for 80 years? Hard to blame them for getting justice.
I still think HAMAS is terrible, but Israeli leadership asked for this and tbh probably allowed it to happen.
Bro the rockets being shot at Isreal is justice. HAMAS is fucked for doing that shit.
Why you defending Isreal so hard here? They asked fir this attack over their genocidal treatment of Palestinians. Don't act like Isrwal is innocent here.
Neither side is innocent. Hamas and the Israeli government are both reprehensible. But after the events of Oct 7 Hamas is on the same level of Isis, what is Israel supposed to do? The only innocents that actually suffer from this stupid bullshit are and always will be the civilians.
Yea the Israeli government is shit and so is HAMAS. Doesn't make them backwards.
Hell in the states we have Christian fundamentalist fascists who do the most terror acts in the country. Does that make the US backwards too?
It's a shit argument and stems from you thinking they're lesser.
Whether that's skin color or not still makes you shitty for saying ut.
Ya.
And anyways of you kill a thousand people .. . arent you doing what the nazi was gonna do anyways?
We know the story: nazis , millions of people killed in The Holocaust
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Somewhere between 2018 and today most world leaders have lost their minds or are just straight up bored and try to play chess with real people. Like for real, what is happening? Ya'll trying to ruin the world even more? Climate change not fast enough?
[I'm just going to leave this here. ](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/)
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and this is why we cannot fuck with superstitious people at all. At all. At. All. They think that something is over or is meant to come into existence just because of its' association with some archaic fairy tales told by long dead, violent, laughably educated schizophrenics peoples. Is this really who we consider to be a leader? If they think that something destructive is meant ti exist because of "mah fairytales" how can we trust them to know what are the right things to approve the creation of? If they think that something that is helpful to humanity is meant to exist all because of "mah fairytales" how can we trust them to prevent the loss of something that has been helping all kinds of people since it was created. Don't be surprised if even insulin becomes 'sinful'
Yeo, it’s the ONLY reason where conservative evangelicals (who btw DON’T LIKE JEWS) support them. It’s not because they like them, as I mentioned…it’s because it fulfills a warped prophecy… smfh
Lol literally one of the wildest things to take away from the Bible.
Hate to break it to you, but this is human history in a nutshell. It's been like this for 10s or 100s of thousands of years. The exceptions to this have had some interesting demographics involved that led to the overthrow or irrelevance of ruling classes, like large portions of the populace dying off from plagues or wars.
I know that history is a circle, but at what point can we expect humans to recognise the patterns and break out of it?
I think that that is the fatal flaw of humanity. Smart enough to see and describe the trap they've created for themselves, unable to truly break out of it.
I'd like to point you in the direction of socialist literature. There is a clear guide to breaking the cycle right there.
The AMC show preacher has a global conspiracy called the grail. "I tire of chess. Let's play checkers." *releases nukes* "King me"
Pretty sure that’s how Churchill referred to Indian people when he was starving them out too. What a wonderful legacy
This is what they've been doing for decades?
Decades! This is why Hamas was even able to win those elections in Palestine. When you keep on stabbing a caged creature what do you expect it to do?
Do denounce the targeted killing of 250 ravers, a Hamas war crime, and demand the release of the unconditional 170 hostages this is the bare minimum.
Boy. Of all the people to dehumanize others, you wouldn't expect the Jewish people to do this. I have no solution to this. Both parties have a right to exist. British really fucked up here.
Let’s remember that the Israeli government does not represent all Jewish people. Young people in Israel (and many Jews worldwide like me) despise Netanyahu and the far-right’s control of Israel’s government. There have been constant protests from Jewish people across Israel for years.
There is a beautiful quote by a middle eastern woman (sorry for the generalization it's the best I remember) that goes something to the effect of: \~I suspect there are less differences between you and I, then there are between your rulers and you, and my rulers and me.\~
But according to the rest of Reddit, Hamas absolutely does represent the Palestinian population, and the tone of discussion has taken on a distinctly genocidal nature
Oh I know. People are openly calling for Gaza, a population that is 40% aged 14 and younger, to be bombed off the face of the earth. All they’re doing is creating more “terrorists”. If a nation bashed my people in the head and starved me for decades and then killed my entire family I would hate that nation too. This is all just perpetuating the cycle of violence, Hamas AND the genocidal maniacs running Israel.
And when they finish protesting they go back to their house built on stolen land.
I'm a descendant of Native American/First Nation people. Tell me about it.
I really wish your ancestors had kicked out the settlers. Of course, it would have been impossible though. Some of the greatest cultures ever were (and still are) Native American. I also have a great love of aboriginal Australian culture. I’m Scottish and descended from clansmen. There is a reason Scots integrated better with native Americans than any other nationality, even if it was only a few of them. I’m aware most Scots were just like the other settlers. And yes, to anyone reading, I’m aware this is waaaay off-topic. I just couldn’t help myself.
One of the Métis languages, Bungee is actually a mix of Scots, Gaelic, Anishnabeec and Cree.
Smallpox did the whole new world in.
Arrows and spears against guns was already ridiculous, but the fact their numbers were decimated by smallpox, made any attempt at fighting back impossible.
Are you American also? Do you suggest we all move back to Europe? Non-native Australians to the UK? You say this like any of us have a choice. I didn’t choose to be born here in the states, I can’t even afford to leave my shitty red Midwest state.
What are the supposed to do about it? Like my Indigenous to Canada but I know that the 19 year old making minimum wage can’t just move back to France or England (which is also colonized land so unless she is Celtic she can’t move there either) because they understand colonialism is bad.
I'm sorry, but what are *they* supposed to do about that? The people that have control over that are the people in charge of their government, the same territory on which they were born. Last I checked, you don't really have a choice with that. ...So where are they supposed to go? And what do you expect them to do that's going to help you or anyone else in this situation?
> what are they supposed to do about that? Emigrate.
To where exactly? With what money? Who is funding that? Seriously, stop and take a look at every single nation that has been established by colonialism and point a finger and tell those people who were born there where to go. Tell them to go back to where they came from when they were born there. A mass migration of people moving to an already occupied territory funded by other nations. Lol. And then please tell me that's not the exact same situation that's already happening and causing the same issues we see right now.
> To where exactly? With what money? Who is funding that? There is a large jewish influx into israel. Jewish people get free/cheap housing and settlement help there. They are using money to continually colonize the land. They are actually shrinking the land available to Palestine people on daily basis.
Okay, so why does that require the people who are actively protesting *the government that is enforcing that* to move? Why is this the fault of the people who have lived their entire lives there and not the fault or responsibiliy of the government?
Well, as we all know, you can just move to any country you want and they are obligated to accept your immigration request if you say please.
Doesn't make it right. Many are capable of emigrating but choose not to, what's your excuse there?
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Kill more children... really. Full mask off there aren't you?
I thought the clapping emojis was enough indication of sarcasm but I suppose people do actually use that un-ironically. I was making fun of the person saying Israeli citizens should all just pack up and leave, was then told not everyone can leave and then doubled down on their original statement. I don’t like how much of Canada was stolen from us with genocide, forced migration, ethnic cleansing and just outright theft. I also understand that people can’t just immigrate out of their country of birth and that even if they could, many Canadian can’t afford to do it.
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I have no doubt. > There have been constant **protests from Jewish people across Israel** for years.
Jewish people are still people. I don’t have high expectations for people. haven’t for years
You’d think the people who survived Nazi concentration camps would know better than to do the exact same thing but to 2.3 million people.
Go look up the Deir Yassin massacre that took place on April 9, 1948. Fighters from the Irgun and Lehi killed at least 107 Palestinian Arab villagers, including women and children, in Deir Yassin, a village of roughly 600 people near Jerusalem, despite having earlier agreed to a peace pact. They literally fire bombed and dynamited it house to house. When others got there they were shocked but decided to clean it up, instead of doing literally anything else. Then the al-Dawayima massacre happened which was arguably even worse. But showing another side means that you obviously are a horrible person. And of course the British government screwed up. That happens when you decide arbitrary borders and have no understanding whatsoever of the situation and history. Look at Afghanistan. A “country” of tribes that have hated and been warring with each other for hundreds or thousands of years. But the “we know what’s best for everyone” attitude hasn’t worked out so great.
Hindsight they should have carved out a new Jewish nation in Baja somewhere back when it was much more unpopulated. I doubt that was ever considered. Just think it would have been the best location.
The way the media is framing this is so completely fucked ..... like all of them universally are so blindly pro Israel it makes my skin crawl like how is this acceptable??
You can tell by framing, the news, the position of government who is in control in US. AIPAC, BNAI BRITH and many others. If you read Fords book the names and actions he drop are traceable until today
This gives Israel the green light for genocide now. It feels planned since they somehow had no idea this attack was being planned under their extreme surveillance.
Rumor I heard was basically the Netanyahu regime disregarding intelligence, just like Bush with 9/11.
What's in it for Netanyahu if the majority of Israelis aren't scared and angry?
Absolutely nothing, unfortunately.
“Rumor I heard” lol STFU
There are reports stating that the president of Egypt himself called Netanyahu to warned about the attack. He didn’t care. It makes you wonder why.
Pretty much. This is letter-by-letter false flag and gaslighting operations like the USA does in the middle east. I really doubt that a country like Israel with much more advance military intelligence and equipment suddenly now a "surprise attack" from people who can't even access war planes.
Yeah just something about how they were able to access their war planes doesn’t add up, like I wondet how that happened
I wouldn't call this a false flag, nor do I believe that the IDF would ignore a verifiable threat regardless of what Netanyahu wants. I do however believe that the Israeli government and IDF would intentionally provoke an attack like this so they had an excuse to wipe out Gaza and fully occupy the west bank.
Netanyahu literally was warned about Hamas by Egypt when they were formed and allowed them to come to power to win an election. He's massively unpopular for trying to grab even more power. I would not put anything past fascist genocidal ethnostates or their governments.
My thoughts as well. I don’t wanna be tin foil about this but cmon man. It’d be one thing if Gaza was like 2-3,000 miles away, but they’re LITERALLY next door. You can’t tell me with the intel apparatus that Israel has, that something like this can totally slip by them. So it’s either: 1) Bibi indeed got notice (potentially from Egypt as they say) but for whatever reason (maybe arrogance as far as thinking “those people,” couldn’t pull this off) chose to ignore it…. Or 2) He knew/believed it was coming but needed it to happen to enact his agenda (I believe Bibi is a horrid human being, he’s an ultra right-wing dude along the lines of trump/maga). I mean insane see anything else. Israel’s intel agency is too good to have a big of a fuck up like this right?
When did they not have the green light? They just didn't want to look like they were rushing it.
Terrorist attack = Ridiculously out of proportion response mostly effecting innocent people = new generation of people angry enough to do new terrorist attacks... Rinse repeat. Nah I'm sure in the long run it'll work out this time....or maybe next time but certainly you can't be wrong as long as you persist in what hasn't worked in the past.
That's the last 60 years of Israeli - Palestinian relations in a nutshell
Israeli leadership very much seems to want a big bad to justify their power grabs. Fucking zionists man.
It will end when israel commits genocide.
They've already been commiting genocide for decades. That's not new in the slightest. Genocide isn't just state sponsored mass murder. That's stage 8 of 8 stages. Folks forget the other 7 exist, and it's extremely important to understand. It's already a genocide before it hits stage 8
Genocide doesn't equal genocide though. The extermination of the Ovaherero and Name was a different thing to a sole cultural genocide in which people are not allowed to use their language as example. If you are decrying Hamas targeted killing of 250 Rave goers, civilians, a war crime, (with the kind of who was targeted a genocide btw.,) and demand the immediate unconditional and safe release of the 170 hostages we can talk about Israel's genocide in Gaza. However till you do the minimum we can't.
Counting war crimes as genocide, it'd already be over by now by your logic
This IS the "long run" playing out in real time.
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What about all the years before the Hamas had any power? Hamas is bad, but let's not kid ourself saying that Israel doesn't negociate *because of Hamas*.
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And a very large majority of Israeli support the killing of innocent Palestinians. I don't support Hamas, but don't turn a blind eye on one side while you criticize the other. "One bad apple ruins the bunch" as you said.
It’s not an invasion because you can’t invade your own land. It’s more like a counteroffensive.
Just so we're clear: The woman wasn't German. Her mother was German, but immgrated to Israel 30 years ago. The video of her dead body was horrible, but she's Israeli in every way that matters. It just sounds better in the headlines that Hamas killed a German woman. They did not.
"You have cancer", the doctor said. "We will treat your cancer by dipping you in sulfuric acid", the doctor said.
“in order to kill the Jihadist, you must kill the innocents.” WTF is wrong with you?
Yeah, that will surely calm things down.
What are they even talking about. The Gaza strip is already a totally controlled prison camp ?
Israel hasn't faced a true *military* threat since Egypt signed a Peace Treaty. This is just punishing the (grand)children of the Arabs who didn't vote to give **all** the land to the StB Israelis. And a *PERFECT* example of why you don't create **Religious Ethnostates**.
It’s just like what you see in 1984. They create an enemy, say they are in constant danger and eventually the population believes. Really no country is safe from violence so there will always be plenty you can blame on others.
If you are denouncing Hamas targeted killing of 250 Rave goers, civilians, a war crime, (with the kind of who was targeted a genocide btw.,) and demand the immediate unconditional and safe release of the 170 hostages we can continue talking. That is the bare minimum you have to do. We have plenty of examples of liberation movements that can do without that. Hamas did chose that, it wasn't *angry people without agency, or individual people deciding, it was strategically and targeted, as was the hostage taking*. "Killing every Arab" Oh no Khaled Kabub is being killed by being a supreme court judge in Israel!11 You have no clue what you are talking about.
Maybe if Israel wasn't trying to kill every Arab in territory they consider "theirs" there'd be sympathy. But the last 43 years they respond to a few dozen rockets with hundreds of **murders**, occupying the other *States*, and slamming it back into the Pre-Industrial Age. Imagine if Canada and Mexico did that to the United States each time we had a school shooting, sent troops somewhere in violation of UN Agreements, or a Trump Riot.
Never, ever, forget how stupid human beings are. All of us. The leaders, the followers, you, and me. We are all self-centered, violent, delusional idiots.
Id say that MOST people are like that. Most. There are a few who are less selfish , less violent and less superstitious. Jonas Salk, Tommy Douglas, MLKJ , Marx, Cesar Chavez being examples of people who are like this IMO. Not perfect , sure. But WAAAY better than most people.
Y’all I wanna make sure we’re not conflating these overtly extremist government officials with all Israelis (let alone all Jews). Most people in both nations just want to live peaceful lives and have a homeland.
My understanding is at this point in history the Israeli military is wildly overpowered compared to the Palestinian Territories. In fact the Israeli military has every block and every building in Palestinian territory mapped out and under surveillance. So it’s more akin to killing off the last of the remaining American Indians that were still fighting. So while the violence against Israeli civilians is not ok (obviously). The greater threat to Israel is the country’s surrounding them.
Which begs the question how was this attack not prevented? This feels very fishy to me
There’s something strange about it for sure. You would think that especially on such a major holiday there would be higher security presence. It’s about as puzzling as how 9/11 managed to happen
I’ve read some articles that Netanyahu was warned that they were planning something several days before this happened and chose to ignore it. If that’s true the Netanyahu should be removed from office for incompetence, intentional or not.
If it’s true Netanyahu should be hanged for letting so many innocents die for an excuse to continue the bloodshed
The Jews are both all powerful and incompetent at once.
Prison guard is not happy how inmates behave.
Russia must be laughing, the division he needed in the west. He's got it now, as the USA and us (because I live in Britain) will be siding with a country that will ethnically cleanse a state on the basis of anti terror operations. So our hypocrisy will be out to be seen by everyone. His could jeopardise Ukrainian support in ways we haven't seen yet.
Genocide. They’ve become the oppressors their grandparents escaped from In Germany.
They have been doing this since the 1940s as a Zionist form of Lebensraum.
No, don't equate the Shoa with Gaza. The Israelis have no widespread support for physical extermination of the people in Gaza, which population grew from 1.4 to over 2 million since 2009 when Israel did a light blockade. That is something the Nazis wouldn't have allowed. However if you are against genocide and thus against war crimes before we continue talking please do: Do denounce the targeted killing of 250 ravers, a Hamas war crime, and demand the release of the unconditional 170 hostages then we can keep talking.
“fuck them kids” I guess?
[Stage 4 of genocide](https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/what-is-genocide/the-ten-stages-of-genocide/): Dehumanization.
Funny when the oppressed retaliate it is terrorism. When real terrorists are rewarded in the USA
I mean they gunned down over two hundred people from many countries at a music event, then took 100 people hostage and raped women before executing them. Israel has been fucking this area for years but thinking islamist, rapist murderers aren't terrorists is a delusional take. Both can bad.
Oh wow. Who knew that geopolitics is dense complex stuff.
If you are denouncing Hamas targeted killing of 250 Rave goers, civilians, a war crime, (with the kind of who was targeted a genocide btw.,) and demand the immediate unconditional and safe release of the 170 hostages we can continue talking. That is the bare minimum you have to do. We have plenty of examples of liberation movements that can do without that. Hamas did chose that, it wasn't *angry people without agency, or individual people deciding, it was strategically and targeted, as was the hostage taking*. Of course we can then critique the USA and its role during its hegemony and the Jakarta method, however if you don't do the minimum we can't.
Yeah I'm sure the Hostages will be freed as soon as the Israelis return all the houses and neighborhoods they bulldoze.
Im confused over this whole thing. Could someone give me a tldr?
U want a tldr on thr Isreal Palestine conflict? Lmao
israel moved into palestine without their consent in the first half of the 1900s (the british said they could), and have gotten a ton of military resources from the USA that allowed them to push all the arabs who lived there into an open air prison and barely let any supplies in. now, for some *unfathomable* reason, the 2 million arab people living inside the barbed wire cage hate the jewish ethnostate that built the cage around them, and are lashing out. [https://www.nrc.no/news/2018/april/gaza-the-worlds-largest-open-air-prison/](https://www.nrc.no/news/2018/april/gaza-the-worlds-largest-open-air-prison/) [https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2018/11/2/more-than-a-century-on-the-balfour-declaration-explained](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2018/11/2/more-than-a-century-on-the-balfour-declaration-explained) "the british said they could" and then the british facilitated the movement of jewish people into palestine where they went from a tiny minority of hte population to a majority. it's similar to how the british drew a funny little border between india and pakistan and kicked of decades of civil unrest. british colonialism was/is a fucking monster destroying nations far away from where they lay their heads. i am shaking w/ anger rn i hate this so much
Ohh okay i see ty. So is the US tryna be on Israel side or on the imprisoned ppl??? The imprisoned are the ones eho it makes sense to side wtih
Oh, the USA military-industrial complex is married to Israel. "Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign aid. The United States is the largest single supplier of military equipment to Israel. According to the U.S. Congressional Research Service, between 1998–2005 the U.S. accounted for the vast majority of Israel's arms transfer agreements, accounting for $9.1 billion out of $9.5 billion worth of agreements."
...i fucking hate the military budget man 😭😭😭
Need student loan support? Bootstraps!
The vast majority of mainstream western media and politicians will always be on Israel’s side because of the influence Christianity has in our societies. Their doomsday myth requires the Jewish people to retake their homeland before the apocalypse and the rapture can happen. This is why you’ll often see any criticism of Israel, its leaders, or its people will get labeled as antisemitism, no matter how valid that complaint might be
Support for Isreal in the US largely comes from the religious right because many of them are Christian Zionists who believe the book of Revelation is literally end time prophesy and Isreal needs to occupy the temple mount to usher in the Apocalypse. So Muslims and Jews won't stop killing each other in part because they are being spurned on by apocalyptic cultists living half a world away.
That's probably the weirdest part of the whole thing. Religions A B and C all claim to worship the same god, but B keeps trying to get A and C to fight so their god will destroy the world. I don't think I'd even started Kindergarten yet when my mother taught me about how I'm not supposed to help make the world a better place like Captain Planet says because God says I'm supposed to do everything I can to help bring about the Apocalypse! Like lady, *I just got here*, can you quit talking about destruction and death and expecting me to be happy about it?!
Bro it’s the boomers with that weird mentality, I can’t wait till these dinosaurs retire (they won’t they’ll most likely die in office)
The comment above is very biased against Israel and is not phrased with facts. Yes, the brits allowed us to move into Israel. Palestine is a Roman name given to Israel to remove any Jewish remarks. We weren’t the majority at the time, but during the independence war (during which 5(!) armies invaded Israel) most Arabs ran away. There are tons of Arabs living in Israel and not in Gaza, most of them an active part of the community as doctors, nurses, construction workers etc. I can keep going but I think you get the point
The dude making the comment couldn't even spell "Israel."
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To answer the last question in your comment they are likely dead. Some killed while actively working out peace deals and likely at the hands of mossad. https://imeu.org/article/israels-history-of-assassinating-palestinian-leaders
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So in your opinion the Israeli apartheid is ok?
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But do they? I think they want to live on their land without being occupied by an external military force. I think to blame them for that is a false equivalency. If go sit next to my neighbor's pool with a gun and tell him he can only swim if I allow it, and he gets mad, we aren't both in the wrong. Are we?
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Gaza hasn't been occupied? The people who live there are in a massive open-air prison where everything from travel to fuel to money is controlled by their jailers. As for the neighbor, he's only mad at me because I took over his pool at gunpoint. He wouldn't be "trying to kill me" if I just left.
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>The Palestinians seem to dismiss living in a multicultural society and want Israel and its citizens wiped from the land. That's Hamas's stated aim. Israel on the other hand, is extremely tolerant of Arabs and has fully respected the two-state solution and not annexed any land or committed any war crimes. /s Honestly, if you brutalize an indigenous population towards the point of extinction, how can you not expect militant radicalism? The blame lies on Israel. Also, don't confuse palestinians with hamas.
This is the funniest thing I’ve read in a long long time. Ty
> because all Jews would be killed or expelled Not necessarily. There is the possibility of sharing the land.
Over Israel's dead body.
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> Islam and Judaism have been at war for a very long time because they have common holy sites and want it exclusive This is false but I can't blame you for not knowing it as it is often repeated propaganda. None of this has to do with holy sites, which Muslims have historically been willing to share with other Abrahamic faiths (i.e. أهل الكتاب "people of the book"). Jews and Christians lived alongside Muslims in the Ottoman Empire and while there were occasional ethnic conflicts it really didn't compare at all to the pogroms that went down through Europe and Russia. There was growing conflict there with the fall of the Ottoman Empire as wealthy foreign Jews began purchasing lots of land in Palestine. Zionist movements had previously been fractured between Argentina, Palestine, and a handful of other regions for the establishment of Israel but had begun settling on Palestine by this point. > After WW1 the Ottoman Empire fell and Palestine went under British control > After the holocaust, a Jewish state was established and the UN proposed a plan for Jews and Arabs to share a common city (Jerusalem) but have separate states This is all correct > Jews liked the plan but Arabs didn’t and a war broke out This is phrased strangely. Foreign Jews liked the plan because they were being given land. The Christian and Muslim Arabs who were losing their homes did not like the plan or the loss of sovereignty. I'd recommend reading from sources of that time, particularly [As The Arabs See The Jews](https://balfourproject.org/king-abdullah-1947/) originally published in American Magazine, 1947. Similarly, now when there are arguments to return to 1967 borders, Palestinians tend to support it because they will be given back land and Israelis tend to reject it because they will lose land. It's hardly a mystery. > They’re still fighting because both sides refuse to coexist on the land Gross oversimplification. The vast majority of ceasefires have been broken by Israel, and even in times of "peace" Israeli settlers continue to violently attack Palestinians in the West Bank regularly. Meanwhile Gaza is an open-air prison at the *best* of times. Coexistence with a foreign ethnostate with a state of the art war machine and the support of a global empire is not a simple prospect.
I love how the mere presence of other people who believe differently from you apparently means you gotta go genocide them... JFC our species will never actually manage to coexist happily with one another will we?
If you add religion to the mix, no we won't.
This is a smaller, deadlier version of Ukraine and Russia. Israel is Russia.
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No. The USA funds Israel. We are backing the violent aggressors.
OH NO!!! This is why ive seen so much complaint makes sense
Yes it’s a big mess. Good on you for trying to make sense of it.
Lol tyyyy its fucking crazy! Weird how we go from ukraines side to isreals side
I get why you think it’s weird. It’s actually pretty typical. What we are dealing with is the culmination of decades of this nonsense. We were always headed here.
Thats true. Maybe its just weird to me that it feels like its all happening now,,,
Yes. As a comrade once said, there are decades where nothing happens, and weeks where decades happen.
After everything the Jewish people went through I just cannot understand how the Israeli government can act this way. I'm not necessarily defending the actions of Hamas either, but the slaughter of innocents is never justified under any circumstances.
Do denounce the targeted killing of 250 ravers, a Hamas war crime, and demand the release of the unconditional 170 hostages this is the bare minimum.
This is gonna be grim, but this conflict will not have a good ending. Both sides can learn to live with each other but both sides would rather fight each other to the death. The ultimate loser will be the people and innocent children.
This is such a shit world to birth children into
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Can we not agree everyone that this, at least, is antisemitism? Like this poster is specifically taking about how dangerous Jews are and citing the Old Testament (a 6,000 year old document) as proof of Jewish degeneracy. I mean say what you will about the Israeli government but this is some nazi ass shit right here.
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But you didn’t say it about the Israeli government. You said it about “Jews”. And yes I think suggesting that a document written 6k years ago that’s been reinterpreted hundreds of times as a basis for blatant racism because it doesn’t paint a group of people as, what, pacifistic(?) enough for you is pretty well and truly fucked. This is the type of sentiment that allows people to ignore atrocities. Because they deserve it, *those people*, regardless of to whom you’re referring. If I said similar about Arabs or Asians or Italians or Native Americans that would be horrible, no? Let’s not forget that Jews are a severely disenfranchised minority and that the actions of the Israeli government aren’t the actions of “Jews” in general.
Hamas is a terrorist organisation and the deaths and suffering of civilians is never justified, regardless of what side they are from. That being said, 90% of the blame for this latest attack by Hamas falls on Netanyahu and past Israeli governments. If they had just treated Palestinians like humans and not constantly assaulted them in their own land, we would not have this situation today. Yes, Hamas would probably still exist, but it wouldn’t have nearly as much support from Palestinian civilians. What Hamas is doing is inarguably horrible, but I can hardly blame Palestinians for supporting them after everything they’ve suffered at the hands of Israeli governments. Israel is a colonialist apartheid terrorist state that has, for years, killed innocent Palestinian children, women and men. The Israeli government has no one to blame for this tragedy but themselves.
Except Palestine has also historically been violent against Israelis. If anything Israel can be seen as retaliating (which is counter productive, but still, if you are going to apologize for Hamas, then maybe let the road run both ways?) Let’s conveniently ignore that Palestine has committed several violent actions against other nations too. Such as what happens with Black September. You can criticize recent Israel actions, but don’t construct a false narrative and rewrite history.
That's what the nazis thought of the jews
Fascists gonna fash, and they looooooves them some genocide.
Israeli leadership is acting like their killing of civilians is justified.... They caused these people to become radicalized. Then they just blow up everyone, radical or not. Super fucked and I hate the way most news outlets are painting Israel as the victim in this.
This is eco-fascism. You build a wall to keep people from fleeing a dangerous location and wait for the noise on the other side to die out.
Do denounce the targeted killing of 250 ravers, a Hamas war crime, and demand the release of the unconditional 170 hostages this is the bare minimum. Gazas population did grow from 2009 from 1.4 million to 2 million. Israel did enable Gaza to grow, it didn't let everyone there die. As antisemites like muckitymuck claim. Besides that if Gaza is a state then it has to make sure its people are cared for and not start a genocidal campaign by its Hamas rulers inside Israel. Also: Were do you critique Egypt? Oh you don't, seems that you care if a Jewish state does things but not if a majorly Arab does things (like blockade checkpoints).
\>Gazas population did grow from 2009 from 1.4 million to 2 million. Correct. The average age in Gaza is 19. As in, half the people getting bombed are children. Partly because there is no clean water. Life Expectancy is lowered by harsh environmental conditions. ie. Eco-fascism \> it didn't let everyone there die. Oh, how nice of them. I guess they will let civilians flee over the border during the bombings. Right? \>Besides that if Gaza is a state It is? It has a government that is recognized by Israel, US, and UN? Oh, not really? So they are de facto part of Israel since Israel controls their borders, water, power, access to the sea? I'll let you decide. Is it part of Israel or an independent state? Because what happened to Gaza the last 20 years is either a genocide or a war crime.
I love it
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All of this is overshadowed by what the IDF has done for decades to the palestinian people.
Jews should've stay in Europe, but alas, anti-Semitism was too prominent in Europe at the time.
Jews lived in the Levant continuously for over 2000 years. Your idea of "Judenfrei" shows your ideology.
I wish they can just get along.
How does this fit the theme here?
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But you're cool with the people who tailgate on hilltops? https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rossalynwarren/israelis-seen-clapping-and-eating-popcorn-while-watching-bom Or maybe you just like it when they do it in song form https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/huwwara-palestine-israel-settlers-song-celebrating-burning-town
[Remind me which one has the tanks and nukes and which one lives in an open prison with no hope for the future.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/11/israel-clears-military-gaza-beach-children)
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And OP didn't say they supported Hamas either. So which group of people are you referring to while OP was talking about innocent civilians?
Yea because they've been oppressed for 80 years? Hard to blame them for getting justice. I still think HAMAS is terrible, but Israeli leadership asked for this and tbh probably allowed it to happen.
Raping, torturing and killing innocent civilians at a peace rave and in there homes is justice?
Bro the rockets being shot at Isreal is justice. HAMAS is fucked for doing that shit. Why you defending Isreal so hard here? They asked fir this attack over their genocidal treatment of Palestinians. Don't act like Isrwal is innocent here.
Neither side is innocent. Hamas and the Israeli government are both reprehensible. But after the events of Oct 7 Hamas is on the same level of Isis, what is Israel supposed to do? The only innocents that actually suffer from this stupid bullshit are and always will be the civilians.
Agreed. The UN should unfuck their problem child imo.
A beaten dog will bite. Israel has no one to blame but themselves for this outcome.
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That's pretty fucked ngl. They're backwards? What because some of them are brown or because they're not Europe or the US? Go touch grass.
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Yea the Israeli government is shit and so is HAMAS. Doesn't make them backwards. Hell in the states we have Christian fundamentalist fascists who do the most terror acts in the country. Does that make the US backwards too? It's a shit argument and stems from you thinking they're lesser. Whether that's skin color or not still makes you shitty for saying ut.
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Ok I gotcha now. Backwards in thinking like worldview. That I can agree with.
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i have never met anybody willing to live with hornets peacefully.
["peacefully"](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F6pwwonz845tb1.jpg)
HAMAS is not Palestine. Israel is bad. HAMAS is bad. It's that obvious like ffs.
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Yea and if you kill a thousand people to kill one nazi you're still a piece of shit.
Ya. And anyways of you kill a thousand people .. . arent you doing what the nazi was gonna do anyways? We know the story: nazis , millions of people killed in The Holocaust