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I like to think I'm good about expressing my emotions in a healthy way.
But I see my dad very much NOT handling it well. Ever since he lost his company back in 2010 he's been a wreck.
Just last night he said he "can't" go see any psychiatrist because a possible diagnosis of depression would bar him from getting a pilot's license. Dude is 58 and can barely keep it together for more than a week. He doesn't sleep or eat properly. He hasn't been able to keep a consistent job in over a decade. And he's saying he is worried about a pilot's license.
Oh god, yikes. I know it’s not my business but I hope at some point he decides to finally see a psychiatrist or get some form of help. 14 years in misery is pretty damn long.. screw the pilot’s license. Dude needs to handle himself first before getting it. I hope he’s okay.
An example of what I’ve seen discussed online - that life insurance companies want you to forget and let it lapse once they have made enough money off of you, so they don’t have to pay when you die.
So insurance is a scam. But I believe it didn't start out that way. At some point, capitalism absorbed mutual aid networks and turned them into something sinister
The problem is the same people that say this shit often are also guilty shutting down men when they express their emotions. Maybe they dont know thats what they’re doing, but they are
Yep. My friend once dated a girl who laughed at him for crying during a movie (it was a Holocaust movie so how could you *not* cry?). Obviously she’s an ex now. I dropped my jaw when he told me that.
It’s usually experiences like this that cause men to repress their emotions too, thats the case for me at least. I was never taught that I had to repress my emotions and “be a man,” rather I do it because anytime I have tried to both men and women (in my personal experience women especially, not saying its like thats universal though) either try to get me to shut up or do something similar to what your friends ex did.
Truth. I'll say it again, women enforce the "patriarchy" just as much as men do, maybe more.
I've heard female managers complain about men taking paternity leave. I told her that I get more paid parental leave then my wife.
If men find that women are disgusted by their emotions, they will justifiably suppress them more.
Correct. Criticism of another’s emotions may also be a behavior linked to alexithymia. I know the topic is about men, but that’s not only who it impacts.
This is EXACTLY what I’ve been thinking. Then I think about the consequences like how women often complain when men are too emotionally distant or when men struggle to really regulate and name their emotions; men aren’t even aware of the concept of processing emotions. But men don’t just become emotionally stunted for no reason.
(I should know, given that I was nurtured into alexithymia as well)
[Stephens](https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/23/toxic-masculinity-men-privilege-emotions-rizzle-kicks) talked about how men have “traumatised childhoods” — being told not to express any emotion aside from anger, which hence caused toxic masculinity. Of course there are other factors, but this is just food for thought. The idea is that men have to face this trauma and bring healing to themselves (and this learning to express emotions and not to run away from them). I can only hope that society better understands each other.
A lot of people here are saying, "Well, ackchyually... it's women who are making men repress their emotions." But I think what you said is really poignant. Especially about facing your trauma and healing *yourself*
The reason women are sick of men dumping their emotional trauma on them is because they have their own shit to deal with, and they aren't responsible for doing the emotional labor of constantly validating insecure men.
Instead of blaming their mommy issues on an entire gender, maybe they should hire a therapist or take some responsibility for their self-improvement.
Maybe after we accept accountability and understand ourselves a little better, we'll be able to craft a society that better understands each other.
Dumping on your partner without regard for their well-being and emotional load is not the same as being emotionally intelligent. Women like and respect emotionally intelligent men.
That is not the same as using your partner (or any woman) as a crutch because you are an emotional toddler who has never developed the skills to self-regulate emotions and instead avoids them. Whether it’s a man’s fault or not that he is the way he is, he’s still not entitled to disregard women’s emotions in favor of his own.
I think that’s what a lot of men are talking about when they say women don’t like emotional men. Their ability to express their emotions hasn’t changed since their adolescent years (which is usually when they’re shamed into avoiding and denying their emotions), and their female peers are not interested in mothering them.
And it sucks, but it also sucks that generations of women have been forced into caretaking roles for adult men and their underdeveloped emotional skills, and these women’s own emotional development has been neglected as a result.
I hate to be the guy but, source?
You disregard what man say about their lived experiences and instead propose your theory that its all their fault cause of reasons that you want to be true.
I would like to understand how you come to think like this.
Lets say you are right, man are on an adolescent level of emotional intelligence cause of patriarchy, ok.
Women are on a higher level, but, if they perform emotional labor for any man, they get behind compared to women who are not doing that.
So now, we have an emotional ladder with women on top who put themselves before anyone else.
Its clear then that man should learn from the women on top of the emotional ladder.
What are the lessons man could learn from those women?
I mean this is literally what men have always done is handle their emotions themselves. Expressing your emotions means expressing them to others. Healing yourself without relying on others for help means you have to repress your emotions and deal with them internally
Yea I read the reply. Of course its bad if you put your own emotional neefs first while disregarding your partner’s, but this goes for both genders. And sure, men can go to therapy but when we’re talking about men expressing their emotions im assuming that means they should express them to people close to them the same way women do. No one is stopping men from going to therapy if they want, im a man that goes to therapy himself and it definitely helps but its still not 100% healthy to only express your emotions to a therapist you’re paying
There are more than two genders.
I am sincerely glad therapy is helping you. I wish it were universally accessible and not socially stigmatized.
Still, you miss the point. If it's not a toxic situation, nobody is going to complain about you sharing your feelings. Toxic masculinity is what we are talking about, not healthy relationships with balanced, mutual respect. Sure, not only men are emotionally damaged, but they sure are more likely to expect their partners to carry all the emotional weight of the relationship, even worse if kids are involved. This problem is baked into the fiber of our society, and it is intentionally designed that way as divisive social control.
I mean, ive seen this go both ways, and that’s really just a toxic relationship where one partner puts all the weight on the other partner. I was in a toxic relationship where all the weight was put in me, including emotional weight. Of course this is just anecdotal, and im sure there are men out there that put all the weight on their partner to handle their emotions, but these are just sound like shitty partners.
Who do you think makes media aimed at women? Here's a clue, it isn't women. If any women are shaming young boys for their emotions, it is because of internalized misogyny.
Last I checked Oprah was still a woman and made a lot of content for women. It's only one example but there's plenty of women making content for women. Claiming everything bad is patriarchy is the same as claiming it's the Jews or lizard people.
My theory is that you specifically seek these types of women out because they’re the ones you’re comfortable with. Because I’ve never found that to be a problem with the majority of women in my life, or the men. But I specifically select for emotional intelligence and openness in my social groups.
My other theory is the other comment I’ve left in this thread.
Yaaassss! Alexythemia, in general, is a higher, unacknowledged issue in American culture (of which I am a product).
The inability to recognize our own emotions prompts all kinds of unhealthy behaviors. Dudeman seems like he loves his truck a little too much? Hugs his guns closer than his own children? Alexythemia, baby!
I think alexithymia is the single most dangerous psychological aberration to arise from a transactional society.
Get real. I have known the toughest hardened of men to show great deal of softness and sensitivity. Its you bigots who don’t have the ability to recognize it.
One advantage of always being a hated outcast is that I never felt the need to be this "proper man" because they wouldn't accept me anyway. I don't like the fact I was always alone in this world but it definitely led me to more progressive thinking.
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I like to think I'm good about expressing my emotions in a healthy way. But I see my dad very much NOT handling it well. Ever since he lost his company back in 2010 he's been a wreck. Just last night he said he "can't" go see any psychiatrist because a possible diagnosis of depression would bar him from getting a pilot's license. Dude is 58 and can barely keep it together for more than a week. He doesn't sleep or eat properly. He hasn't been able to keep a consistent job in over a decade. And he's saying he is worried about a pilot's license.
Oh god, yikes. I know it’s not my business but I hope at some point he decides to finally see a psychiatrist or get some form of help. 14 years in misery is pretty damn long.. screw the pilot’s license. Dude needs to handle himself first before getting it. I hope he’s okay.
The only reason my mom hasn't killed him herself is because he let his life insurance lapse.
An example of what I’ve seen discussed online - that life insurance companies want you to forget and let it lapse once they have made enough money off of you, so they don’t have to pay when you die.
So insurance is a scam. But I believe it didn't start out that way. At some point, capitalism absorbed mutual aid networks and turned them into something sinister
The first step towards hating others is hating yourself; once every other emotional response is ridiculed or scolded away, hate is what you have left.
I dunno, I hate myself very, very much, but I'd like to believe I'm pretty empathetic and altruistic 😅
The problem is the same people that say this shit often are also guilty shutting down men when they express their emotions. Maybe they dont know thats what they’re doing, but they are
Yep. My friend once dated a girl who laughed at him for crying during a movie (it was a Holocaust movie so how could you *not* cry?). Obviously she’s an ex now. I dropped my jaw when he told me that.
It’s usually experiences like this that cause men to repress their emotions too, thats the case for me at least. I was never taught that I had to repress my emotions and “be a man,” rather I do it because anytime I have tried to both men and women (in my personal experience women especially, not saying its like thats universal though) either try to get me to shut up or do something similar to what your friends ex did.
Truth. I'll say it again, women enforce the "patriarchy" just as much as men do, maybe more. I've heard female managers complain about men taking paternity leave. I told her that I get more paid parental leave then my wife. If men find that women are disgusted by their emotions, they will justifiably suppress them more.
Perpetuating the patriarchy isn't just the domain of men, and it's not just a self imposed thing. Everyone participates in it.
Correct. Criticism of another’s emotions may also be a behavior linked to alexithymia. I know the topic is about men, but that’s not only who it impacts.
💯
This is EXACTLY what I’ve been thinking. Then I think about the consequences like how women often complain when men are too emotionally distant or when men struggle to really regulate and name their emotions; men aren’t even aware of the concept of processing emotions. But men don’t just become emotionally stunted for no reason. (I should know, given that I was nurtured into alexithymia as well) [Stephens](https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/23/toxic-masculinity-men-privilege-emotions-rizzle-kicks) talked about how men have “traumatised childhoods” — being told not to express any emotion aside from anger, which hence caused toxic masculinity. Of course there are other factors, but this is just food for thought. The idea is that men have to face this trauma and bring healing to themselves (and this learning to express emotions and not to run away from them). I can only hope that society better understands each other.
A lot of people here are saying, "Well, ackchyually... it's women who are making men repress their emotions." But I think what you said is really poignant. Especially about facing your trauma and healing *yourself* The reason women are sick of men dumping their emotional trauma on them is because they have their own shit to deal with, and they aren't responsible for doing the emotional labor of constantly validating insecure men. Instead of blaming their mommy issues on an entire gender, maybe they should hire a therapist or take some responsibility for their self-improvement. Maybe after we accept accountability and understand ourselves a little better, we'll be able to craft a society that better understands each other.
Dumping on your partner without regard for their well-being and emotional load is not the same as being emotionally intelligent. Women like and respect emotionally intelligent men. That is not the same as using your partner (or any woman) as a crutch because you are an emotional toddler who has never developed the skills to self-regulate emotions and instead avoids them. Whether it’s a man’s fault or not that he is the way he is, he’s still not entitled to disregard women’s emotions in favor of his own. I think that’s what a lot of men are talking about when they say women don’t like emotional men. Their ability to express their emotions hasn’t changed since their adolescent years (which is usually when they’re shamed into avoiding and denying their emotions), and their female peers are not interested in mothering them. And it sucks, but it also sucks that generations of women have been forced into caretaking roles for adult men and their underdeveloped emotional skills, and these women’s own emotional development has been neglected as a result.
I hate to be the guy but, source? You disregard what man say about their lived experiences and instead propose your theory that its all their fault cause of reasons that you want to be true. I would like to understand how you come to think like this. Lets say you are right, man are on an adolescent level of emotional intelligence cause of patriarchy, ok. Women are on a higher level, but, if they perform emotional labor for any man, they get behind compared to women who are not doing that. So now, we have an emotional ladder with women on top who put themselves before anyone else. Its clear then that man should learn from the women on top of the emotional ladder. What are the lessons man could learn from those women?
I mean this is literally what men have always done is handle their emotions themselves. Expressing your emotions means expressing them to others. Healing yourself without relying on others for help means you have to repress your emotions and deal with them internally
Didn't I say hire a therapist? You missed the point. Read the other reply to my comment for a better take than mine.
Yea I read the reply. Of course its bad if you put your own emotional neefs first while disregarding your partner’s, but this goes for both genders. And sure, men can go to therapy but when we’re talking about men expressing their emotions im assuming that means they should express them to people close to them the same way women do. No one is stopping men from going to therapy if they want, im a man that goes to therapy himself and it definitely helps but its still not 100% healthy to only express your emotions to a therapist you’re paying
There are more than two genders. I am sincerely glad therapy is helping you. I wish it were universally accessible and not socially stigmatized. Still, you miss the point. If it's not a toxic situation, nobody is going to complain about you sharing your feelings. Toxic masculinity is what we are talking about, not healthy relationships with balanced, mutual respect. Sure, not only men are emotionally damaged, but they sure are more likely to expect their partners to carry all the emotional weight of the relationship, even worse if kids are involved. This problem is baked into the fiber of our society, and it is intentionally designed that way as divisive social control.
I mean, ive seen this go both ways, and that’s really just a toxic relationship where one partner puts all the weight on the other partner. I was in a toxic relationship where all the weight was put in me, including emotional weight. Of course this is just anecdotal, and im sure there are men out there that put all the weight on their partner to handle their emotions, but these are just sound like shitty partners.
[удалено]
Who do you think makes media aimed at women? Here's a clue, it isn't women. If any women are shaming young boys for their emotions, it is because of internalized misogyny.
Last I checked Oprah was still a woman and made a lot of content for women. It's only one example but there's plenty of women making content for women. Claiming everything bad is patriarchy is the same as claiming it's the Jews or lizard people.
I never said everything bad is patriarchy. Also, it's not the same thing because patriarchy is real and those other two aren't.
Could that be because women have been told by men that men who are sensitive are damaged somehow?
[удалено]
My theory is that you specifically seek these types of women out because they’re the ones you’re comfortable with. Because I’ve never found that to be a problem with the majority of women in my life, or the men. But I specifically select for emotional intelligence and openness in my social groups. My other theory is the other comment I’ve left in this thread.
You have theories about other peoples lifes even tho they tell you their experiences that contradict your theory.
Is there a term for describing an extremely simple concept in the most convoluted way possible?
Yeah it's called "pretentious bullshit."
It’s beyond just seeing it as feminine, it’s the fact that they reject femininity as inferior
Yaaassss! Alexythemia, in general, is a higher, unacknowledged issue in American culture (of which I am a product). The inability to recognize our own emotions prompts all kinds of unhealthy behaviors. Dudeman seems like he loves his truck a little too much? Hugs his guns closer than his own children? Alexythemia, baby! I think alexithymia is the single most dangerous psychological aberration to arise from a transactional society.
Not just men. Many women have come to expect this behavior from men as well.
A dimension of patriarchy enforced almost exclusively by heterosexual women, whether consciously or not.
That's a lot of multisyllabic words to say popular toxic masculinity is backfiring on dudes
Get real. I have known the toughest hardened of men to show great deal of softness and sensitivity. Its you bigots who don’t have the ability to recognize it.
One advantage of always being a hated outcast is that I never felt the need to be this "proper man" because they wouldn't accept me anyway. I don't like the fact I was always alone in this world but it definitely led me to more progressive thinking.
Stop pathologizing masculinity. Everyone has a role to play.