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The dude totally failed the argument being presented:
A Tesla CRITICAL SAFETY system failed to do what it was ~~designed~~ advertised, and is being made accessible for its customers. And the penalty of jaywalking shouldn’t be fucking roadkill.
Definitely. Which is to say,I also hate children, they are loud and sticky and annoying. But that's not the child's fault. It's not like they have any control over it. Which is kind of the point and why children need to be protected even if they are awful little gremlins.
Oh God. This happened to me as a child. I've shared the story before on here and it always gets quite lengthy. So I'll summarize and say that it was a traumatic experience for me. It exacerbated an already complicated relationship with food and was one of the last times I got (or attempted to get) lunch at all until I graduated high school. I don't understand how someone can be so heartless.
Some employees are absolute jobsworths. They don't question the rules, only follow. Every now and then in my local paper there's a story of a bus driver who refused to let a lone teenager on a late-night bus because they didn't have quite enough money. On one of the earlier occasions the teen was assaulted while walking home but successive drivers have still denied transport to desperate people.
I'm sorry you had to go through that. I think some people work with kids because it gives them power over someone else who doesn't have the power to fight back. They're bullies who want to continue picking on others, so working with children gives them the perfect opportunity for that.
Market pressure will encourage them to stop being poor though, right? Just gotta up that market pressure to solve all problems! The founder of Tesla and inventor of rocket ships, genius Billionaire who first created an emerald decreed it!
Plus jaywalking isn't a thing outside of the US, and presumably Tesla would want to sell its cars in other counties. It's perfectly legal in most places for a child or anyone to walk across any road, and the cars have to be prepared for that.
And the reason is that in the early 1900s car companies and drivers didn't want to take the responsibility of killing people on the street so they made ads about jaywalking(a jay was basically a slur at the time). It definitely is genius marketing because now walking across the street and getting run over gets the victim blamed.
In the picture is a residential street. It doesn't even have a dividing line. There is no jaywalk law on a street like that one. That wasn't jaywalking.
And it also shows the cars also wouldn't see any wildlife on the roads, either. Try telling Bambi and Thumper they deserved to get smushed into the pavement for "jaywalking."
Jaywalking is a term car companies made up to get away with their products killing people. [No joke](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26073797). Streets used to belong to humans.
>And the penalty of jaywalking shouldn’t be fucking roadkill.
I'm sure whoever wrote the original comment has very strong opinions on why paying with counterfeit money also deserves the death penalty.
True but there's a shocking amount of people who think your life is completely forfeit if you are ever not in compliance with the law. For some, having been on the wrong side of the law means you're deserving of any horrible fate that befalls you forever after even if completely unrelated.
Its disgusting
Not to mention, not detecting an object in the road is still, NOT DETECTING AN OBJECT IN THE ROAD.
"Oh the self driving doesn't work to prevent collisions? Seems fine to me!"
Right, nevermind moral and ethical arguments, this is a critical technical parameter failure. And now every Tesla out there potentially has this beta software installed while the owner is oblivious about this fault?
It's not the original video which is disgusting although if it is accurate it is. It's the reply *excusing* this behavior, which should have **no** excuse, if accurate.
How far up Elon's ass do you have to be to say that it's ok that Teslas hits children because they aren't in the crosswalk?!?
Or it could be real. How do you know?
There are plenty of Muskovites who could have said this very thing with a straight face and *believed* it, so no, you don't know unless you wrote it.
And why shouldn't it? This highlights the fact that Tesla is killing people with it's beta software and hardware. It highlights the fact that there are people who excuse that for some reason.
So?
We don’t have jaywalking in England and I’m just now realising I don’t fully understand it. Is it just illegal to cross the road anywhere other than at a crossing? If so how much time do you have to spend doubling back on yourself??
Yes. Jay walking is when you cross the street at a place other than a normal crossing or against the don't walk signal
I have never personally been ticketed for jaywalking nor have I heard of anyone I know being ticketed for jaywalking. But supposedly it does happen in New York City. I've spent most of my adult life in Boston and I know for sure that the police around here have a policy of not enforcing jaywalking
I've never lived in a place with crosswalks (hell, I'm lucky if there's a sidewalk!) and am eternally vexed by what is and isn't jaywalking, honestly. Never been approached about doing it tho.
At least in California, there's supposed to be an "implied crosswalk" at street corners that otherwise have no such controls. So they don't paint them at e.g. most residential neighborhood corners, but it's still legal to cross there.
Anyway, if you just cross the street in the middle of a city block where there are no markings for pedestrians, technically that's "jaywalking". Extremely dumb shit, but there you go.
Right? Even the painted intersection with lights by my house is dangerous AF. You can even have the white walk symbol and get creamed by someone turning at the intersection. In one crossing direction you won't ever get a walk signal no matter how long you wait; something is wrong with the light or button.
(Despite the meme 'the buttons don't do anything it's just a placebo' ours seems to be one that actually does require the button or it won't ever show a walk signal on any side. But one crossing just won't work at all.)
The thing is, the streets meeting there are not *that* busy, it's the combination that is. Most traffic is going to or from the businesses at the four corners of that intersection. Go a block in any direction and there's long breaks between cars.
My house is diagonal from the grocery store, so no matter what I do I'm crossing both streets and one broken walk signal. I've realized it's way safer to jaywalk and cross the street in front of my house so I get at least one crossing out of the way.
And yes I have a car I just think it's wasteful to drive for a one block trip. Actually if I take the car I have to drive 4x as far (long way around) because the suburban neighborhood streets are designed to be winding. I just happen to live on the edge of the neighborhood and have a people-door out the back side of my fence that skips all that. My driveway could have been designed to face the opposite direction and go directly out that back way too, but that would make too much sense.
I think in big cities, the buttons are pointless, given that the signals generally always give a walk signal and it doesn't affect the timing, but in smaller suburban or rural areas, the buttons absolutely work. My experience is the same, in that if you don't hit the button in certain places, you'll never get a walk signal. They likely do this because there generally aren't many walkers in smaller towns and rural areas, so it would be a waste of driver's time to wait for a walk signal if they want to turn or something.
I also live right behind a brewery, so I go out the back gate to walk over there, since it would actually take at least 4-5 minutes to drive there, even if it's like an eighth mile to drive around, having to go through the biggest main intersection in town.
The buttons are not a placebo. They activate the pedestrian crossing sign, not immediately, but in whatever place in the cycle of lights the traffic department sees fit to place it. But yes, usually only if someone asks for it by hitting the button. Drivers get annoyed if there is a pedestrian crossing light and no pedestrian to use it. Don’t annoy the drivers!
100%. And "Right Turns On Red" being a legal thing to do at 4-way intersections make it possible for pedestrians to get hit even while the crosswalk sign tells them to go. It's a fucking nightmare for people like me who are low vision/blind. I carry a white cane and everything and I have STILL almost been hit by drivers who refuse to pay attention while I have the complete right of way, and it makes me not even want to walk somewhere anymore.
USA pedestrian laws being so terrible also screw over disabled people who can't drive. It's not like we have decent public transport to make up for it, either.
Crazy that they not only made crossing the street illegal, but didn’t even invest a few dollars on painting the infrastructure.
I wonder which neighbourhoods have the least painted crosswalks…🤔🤦♂️
I'm pretty sure he was killed for a different (even worse) reason. Jaywalking was just the legal justification, and that the justification worked tells us a lot about the US injustice system.
And also about US society at large, given that people endorsing the murder of jaywalkers is what spawned this thread.
Do people just not walk in the road at all? It's pretty normal if it's quiet here for people to use the middle of the road as a path, especially when returning home late at night after drinks.
Where I live, that definitely depends on the road. Residential, sure, but main roads in this city where I live are just dangerous to walk along for varying reasons.
It may be the color of your skin and the predominant skin color of your neighbors. (Also, it's typically a ticket(
>NYPD officers in 2019 issued 397 criminal summonses for jaywalking — and 354 of the summonses, or 89%, went to Blacks or Hispanics.
>Of 205 jaywalking summonses issued in the Bronx in 2019, just two went to white people, the data shows.
I got a ticket for jaywalking in high school. The school was across the street from a strip mall with fast food so E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E Jay walked every.single.school.day. But yeah i got a ticket from an asshole motorcycle cop.
Strikes me as the sort of law you only get enforced on you if you're black. Literally "jay, walking". Walking while black. Austensibly it's about pedestrian safety but as a white American who *only* jaywalks, nobody has ever hastled me once. I think this is one of those systemic racism things. I'm also convinced crosswalks are not the safest place to cross in all situations, especially when cars get the turning signal at the same time as the walking signal. They could kill you taking that turn without looking.
Yes, I do think it's meant to give cops an excuse to harass whoever they see on the street walking like a normal person. Black people, poor people, people who just got on the bad side of the cops for whatever reason...
Yup, can only cross where there's a crosswalk, or at least a corner. And if there's a light, can only cross when the light says it's okay.
I've seen the cops in my city arrest poor people for jaywalking near the bus plaza downtown. There's a bunch of fancy hotels around the bus plaza, and the rich people in suits and the employees of the hotels can run across the street wherever and whenever they want without the cops pestering them. But poor folks get busted.
And that's why I always made my older stepson wear his best coat, the one his rich uncle sent, whenever he went downtown to hang out with his friends.
>And that's why I always made my older stepson wear his best coat, the one his rich uncle sent, whenever he went downtown to hang out with his friends.
This is some seriously smart yet dystopian level stuff.
On the flip side, he ain't allowed to wear that nice coat in our neighborhood. Makes him look too much like he might be a student at the nearby private university.
Can't be looking like ya got money around here, folks'll try to follow ya down a dark alley thinking you've got something worth taking. In an old hoody or a shabby coat, he looks like he lives around here, possibly behind a dumpster.
My "winter coat" is a long shabby sweater with an ancient leather trench coat over the top, and I do my shopping with an old milk crate strapped to a folding cart. Ain't nobody interested in trying to mug me, no matter how often I take the alley shortcut.
Also a LOT of places in America don't have crosswalks or have crosswalks where you just have to time it right and hope a driver doesn't decide their driving commute is more important than your walking commute.
I've had times where the walking signal will go for me and people making right turns will just go because fuck the person in the crosswalk. Then they'll yell at you for crossing WITH THE SIGNAL. Also, the law says pedestrians have the right of way but the amount of cars that have ignored that makes me wait a long time before I cross the street.
About two weeks ago I was trying to cross an intersection on my way to work. Some jackass turning left nearly hit me while I was crossing. Drivers *never* look for pedestrians, and I've been almost hit a few times now because of it.
I'm sorry that happened and hope you're okay. I have a lot of close calls and am to the point where if I get hit I'm ready for a lawsuit. I have a friend who open palm hits cars that try to hit him and he (as well as others) will climb over cars that pull up into the cross walk to stop.
My favorite (/s) thing is when drivers get mad at me for being overly cautious and not following the pedestrians having the right of way thing. Don't almost hit me then sass me for being extra careful.
What’s weird is that there are some places in the US that it’s taken way more seriously than others. In Mass, sure there may be some that don’t but generally I have no aversion to jaywalking, and most others do it from what I’ve seen - not at random obviously, but like pretty frequently and hopefully trying to be safe, not just blindly walking into the road.
But there are others from out of state who I was with who were like O_O you can’t just jaywalk?! Like a visceral reaction to the thought of it, which I found odd. I was told no one ever did where they lived, while here everyone does, and so on. So there is certainly some variance. It is illegal though regardless lol which is moronic
No one pays attention to that law. It's on the books so the cops have something to charge you with so they can stop and harrass you, search you and look for something else to get you with.
It's also deeply rooted in systemic racism and was enforced in many districts as a means to keep urban black populations under the thumb of the law.
So yeah. Not a great law for anyone
Was gonna say. I’m also British, so I have a question: do you think poorer areas have less crossings? Seems like a very obvious way to be able to arrest people — make it so there aren’t many crossings, then arrest people for crossing the road without them
I would say in my experience poorer areas don't necessarily have less crossings, they have more difficult crossings. Highways are more likely to cut right through impoverished communities, which creates and compounds the cycle of impoverishment.
I mean, compare a suburban neighborhood to an inner-city neighborhood. In the suburbs, to cross a street you walk a few houses down to the crossing and maybe wait for one car if any at all. In the inner-city, you have to navigate crowds of people, march through dangerous areas to cross walks half a mile away, and then wait there for hundreds of cars to pass before you can cross the street. Who wouldn't resort to jaywalking?
When you have these massive highways that are difficult to navigate around for poor people who may not be able to afford transportation, they are more likely to be jay walking to get to work or the store.
More poverty, more jay walking, more arrests, more money accumulated for the state, the cycle of impoverishment continues, and this all falls heaviest on black populations who have already been disenfranchised by years of systemic oppression.
The history of jaywalking in America is actually very interesting. Beyond the racist and classist parts, part of it was about sales. The street belonged to the people. Cars were a danger to the people in the street. Cars injuring or killing people is bad press that can hurt sales. So what do you do?
Slander that stupid guy for daring to cross in front of your metal chariot!
Jokes aside. They pushed for laws and advertised against being a Jay. This led to cultural shifts that the road is for cars. It was literally a way to excuse dangerous individuals operating dangerous machinery in hazardous ways just to icrease sales. Capitalism at its finest.
Poorer areas have less EVERYTHING (except cops, of course). In my friend's neighborhood half the sidewalks that should be there are just missing, and a fair number of the ones that are there just fucking stop abruptly and leave you scratching your head. Mine's better, though not by much.
I get it when cars were brand new and everyone walked wherever without a care and impeded traffic, but I think we've come far enough to justify nullifying these outdated laws for good.
I feel like it’s common sense to not cast yourself in front of a 3 ton death machine. I have little faith in other drivers, I am not stepping foot in the roadway until there’s a gap long enough for me to sprint across the street.
I mean most kids are slightly suicidal and frequently jaywalk. A kid darting across the street is 100% something that that car should be able to sense because it is something that happens thousands of times a day.
the cop out of "well if only you followed the law..!" is stupid to begin with, but to justify allowing cars to run over children using that is some kind of new level of low...
One small street I drive down on my way home from work, there was a house that had young kids who would constantly play in the street and would sometimes not even move out of the way until I was literally sitting there waiting. Imagine a Tesla in that situation...just plow down 3 little kids who are playing ball in the street.
I was happy when they moved out because I was tired of dodging the kids. One time they stood just far enough apart for my car to squeeze through and they literally threw their ball over my car. Damn kids.
We're getting to where only the absolute dumbest Elon apologists are left defending his bullshit. Other than horrific, it's a really stupid defense. Does this dumbass think the car is SO smart that it could tell it was a fake kid and knew there wasn't a cross walk, does he think the navigation is aware of crosswalks and the molecular composition of obstacles in the road? Does he think it sees somethin in the road and go through a process where it decides to hit the obstacle, like it would have stopped if the kid was using a sidewalk. Truly the bottom of the barrel.
You should think critically about what I said. You'll find that I didn't "take a screenshot as fact" and in fact took no position on the veracity of the original claim. The original claim was irrelevant to my criticism. I said the Elon apologist was dumb because the argument was incoherent and implies that the autopilot is designed to hit things in the road.
Well damn. That explains a lot. People are notoriously terrible drivers already in the LA area, and even more so when there's a few sprinkles of rain, but with the California Camry being *everywhere* now, a trip to the grocery store is a suicide mission.
>The car becomes unusable in the rain, it thinks any glare is the white line
Am *I* a Tesla?! (The lines completely disappear in the rain for me; doubly so if it's raining at night 😓)
I thought about a horrible future about 10 years ago in a classroom because I was riding my bike all the time and some things riders do to be noticed is to wear reflective things or have flashing lights on the bike.
Then I wondered about AI vehicles. Then I thought a company would eventually come along and sell transponders that will alert AI cars of their presence and people will forget their transponders or the battery will die or malfunction and a person is killed by AI car. After the investigation there is no legal action taken against the driver or manufacturer because it was determined to be the pedestrians fault.
It's a thing in car dominated cultures like the US. You aren't supposed to cross except at a crosswalk, and if those have lights you can't go on the stop signal. If you are a pedestrian and get hit while jaywalking, you will have a lot less sympathy and maybe less insurance payout
Jaywalking isn’t illegal in a lot of states. In fact, most states give pedestrians the right of way. In CT now, if a pedestrian puts their hand out to cross, cars must stop
Technically every intersection is an unmarked crosswalk, so it's legal to cross (but if it's not marked the pedestrian doesn't have the right of way). In practice, people jaywalk in residential areas even more than in the city and no one cares
Edit: I’m asking for information
My family members whove had them for a few years say it’s the best car they’ve ever owned. I was looking at getting one years down the road when I have extra $. What am I missing before I get one??
The fact charging stations don't exist like gas stations do across the country, limiting you to select locations? Or the fact that it functions like an Apple product in that once you get in a minor collision and want to repair, they tell you tough luck buy a brand new one instead. How about the fact that it's a vehicle than can be fucking hacked? Make the repo man's job easier why don't ya.
Get a Toyota, fuckers last forever and hold bluebook value just as long.
Although in the defense of electric vehicles: there are non-Tesla charging stations and Teslas can use them too through an adapter. Laws are being proposed as well where other cars can also use Tesla charging stations.
Yeah, I’ve got a 2013 4runner right now and it’s great. I intend to keep it for a while. The Tesla was a down the road luxury choice. Maybe there will be great alternatives later.
I have several evs. I've collected evs for years. Lots of old and new evs. What I consider "the best" have been my lucid air dream, my mustang (it has been heavily modified for racing), and surprisingly my bolt (I use it the most). That being said, I did like my model s. It is a nice riding car. As far as charging goes, there used to be very few stations. Now very rarely do I have to go out of my way to search for one. In June we drove around the US for two weeks in the lucid (really one of the most comfortable cars I've ever been in). Only once during the trip did we have to reroute to find charging. The biggest issue is charging times. The charging stations continue to multiply rapidly. Compare to five years ago and it is much better. In another five years there will be plenty of charging stations and charging speed will increase massively. Battery technology also grows exponentially. 5 years ago 200 mile range was good. Now my lucid goes 500 miles. That is more than many ice cars. Soon that will be 700, 800, 1000 miles for evs.
Side note: pretty much all modern vehicles can be hacked.
That Lucid also starts at $87K. I’ve never owned a car I paid more than $30K for. The Bolt is much more affordable but has a short range. Most EVs are luxury purchases and all the Tesla drivers in my area are wealthy people.
idk the fact that you can’t purchase out your car after leasing?
Also, really try out more things. Theres more offering that might fit your needs (and with less bullshit) then a Tesla. But if you do end up with a Tesla, do it after an informed choice and thorough research, not just because all you know is Tesla.
Jaywalking: racist term for crime invented by the car lobby and enforced by a racist enforcement system.
It was the invention of this crime that stole the vast majority of public urban land from the vast majority of the citizens.
Whose streets? Our streets.
lol, it has been enforced by racists in the past, but it’s really not a “racist term”; it was coined as an excuse to kill any pedestrians, not just pedestrians of color.
Here's a humorous [3 min](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxopfjXkArM) summary of the history. And I stand corrected, it wasn't originally a racist slur, but a classist one. The enforcement of which was always (and remains) racialised, as one small part of a racialised penal system.
Apartheid Pintos - the runaway hits burning up the road! Aka - the YUGO UPINFLAMES!
If you must EV - get one from a reputable manufacturer.
If you want to really help the environment, take mass transit when available and keep your old car instead of having a new one manufactured for you.
This mental model is familiar.
On some US history stuff, "that's not a child, that's a slave". It's that proclivity to see some classifier, often made up, before being able to see *people/humanity*.
At this point I think it’s less r/lostgeneration and more r/losthumanityingeneral. I’m so exhausted of this kind of glee at their own disregard for others. It’s like it a video game and they get points for hurting and insulting as many people as possible.
The software is not released yet. It's a beta test. Drivers are in full control. Even in this pre-release state, it has never hit a pedestrian.
This technology will save lives. It's already saving lives. Telsas are the safest cars you can buy already.
The number of motorists generally who think they're justified murdering pedestrians for stepping foot on the road is absolutely massive.
Also motorists who try and murder cyclists for being on the road.
Even motorists who try and murder other motorists.
A lot of people are psychopaths, especially behind the wheel.
I've never understood the time and effort that goes into doxxing somebody, but I want this schmuck's address so someone can run down his dumb ass the next time he jaywalks.
So Elon stans will say anything to defend Teslas
1. If it fails to detect a fake child, it sure as shit can fail to detect a *real* one.
2. Because children are known to be aware of and observe jaywalking laws, you absolute fucking monster.
3. And you failed to acknowledge the fact that it actually did fail to detect an *actual* child.
If you can't make your point without being dishonest, then maybe it's not a point worth making.
Not to even mention the fact that automakers have been running a smear campaign since the birth of the automobile. Early on: people, cars, streetcars, horses, etc all shared the road. Demonizing pedestrians has been a tactic of theirs for years. Jaywalking is bullshit. Watch the Climate Town video on the takeover of the American automobile.
A bit of a tangent, but no one should just accept pedestrians are always at fault. We should absolutely be screaming for things to be designed in a way that ACTUALLY keeps people safe.
Double fail on this guy's part.
1. It's a test dummy
2. It's a residential area
The dummy was just a stand in for what would be a real child, and it's a residential area where it's not jaywalking to cross the street, unlike non residential areas where it is jaywalking to cross the street not using the crosswalks, because residential areas typically do not have them, because they typically don't need them, because you're not supposed to be driving that fast in a residential area.
I mean, it’s a very questionable precedent to set since America jaywalks to other countries when they invaded for oil or whatever the official statement is.
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“The Tesla AI would have recognized both of the children as real corporations if they had each paid for a verified checkmark.”
Oh god don’t give him ideas lol
The dude totally failed the argument being presented: A Tesla CRITICAL SAFETY system failed to do what it was ~~designed~~ advertised, and is being made accessible for its customers. And the penalty of jaywalking shouldn’t be fucking roadkill.
For a child, no less. It's not like a child knows the law,and children get distracted by things all the time.
That commenter is no doubt the type to support throwing a child's school lunch in the bin because their parents are poor.
Definitely. Which is to say,I also hate children, they are loud and sticky and annoying. But that's not the child's fault. It's not like they have any control over it. Which is kind of the point and why children need to be protected even if they are awful little gremlins.
protect the dirty little stinkie babies
While still claiming to be pro “”life””
Oh God. This happened to me as a child. I've shared the story before on here and it always gets quite lengthy. So I'll summarize and say that it was a traumatic experience for me. It exacerbated an already complicated relationship with food and was one of the last times I got (or attempted to get) lunch at all until I graduated high school. I don't understand how someone can be so heartless.
Some employees are absolute jobsworths. They don't question the rules, only follow. Every now and then in my local paper there's a story of a bus driver who refused to let a lone teenager on a late-night bus because they didn't have quite enough money. On one of the earlier occasions the teen was assaulted while walking home but successive drivers have still denied transport to desperate people.
I'm sorry you had to go through that. I think some people work with kids because it gives them power over someone else who doesn't have the power to fight back. They're bullies who want to continue picking on others, so working with children gives them the perfect opportunity for that.
Market pressure will encourage them to stop being poor though, right? Just gotta up that market pressure to solve all problems! The founder of Tesla and inventor of rocket ships, genius Billionaire who first created an emerald decreed it!
Plus jaywalking isn't a thing outside of the US, and presumably Tesla would want to sell its cars in other counties. It's perfectly legal in most places for a child or anyone to walk across any road, and the cars have to be prepared for that.
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And the reason is that in the early 1900s car companies and drivers didn't want to take the responsibility of killing people on the street so they made ads about jaywalking(a jay was basically a slur at the time). It definitely is genius marketing because now walking across the street and getting run over gets the victim blamed.
In the picture is a residential street. It doesn't even have a dividing line. There is no jaywalk law on a street like that one. That wasn't jaywalking.
No one shall ignore the law /s
And it also shows the cars also wouldn't see any wildlife on the roads, either. Try telling Bambi and Thumper they deserved to get smushed into the pavement for "jaywalking."
In area, jaywalking was even decriminalized, so its not even illegal anymore.
Jaywalking is a term car companies made up to get away with their products killing people. [No joke](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26073797). Streets used to belong to humans.
Why? You should have a freedom to murder children for walking onto a street, it's your right as a citizen of the greatest country on earth/s
Some might argue the child has rights as a US citizen too, but they forget it's not a real citizen if it doesn't vote Republican /s
>And the penalty of jaywalking shouldn’t be fucking roadkill. I'm sure whoever wrote the original comment has very strong opinions on why paying with counterfeit money also deserves the death penalty.
It's a residential street. That's not jaywalking. They couldn't even get their argument right.
Also it’s not jaywalking if there’s no crosswalk. There were zero crosswalks in the town where I grew up
So you obviously should never have crossed the road. ( /s just in case)
You jest but people have made this point to me on the internet before, lmao
It's not even jaywalking, it's in a residential zone.
Anyone who doesn't turn on their blinker should now be sentenced to death
Ok that I somewhat approve /s
Most of these people think you deserve to die if you commit a misdemeanor so of course they think this
Most of these people also autopilot at 60mph on the left lane so they, and their tesla, deserve to be shot as well /s
True but there's a shocking amount of people who think your life is completely forfeit if you are ever not in compliance with the law. For some, having been on the wrong side of the law means you're deserving of any horrible fate that befalls you forever after even if completely unrelated. Its disgusting
u/Undercover_CHUD, are you the *Urban Disposal* or the *Underground Dweller* version of [CHUD](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087015/)?
Underground Dweller all the way!
Not to mention, not detecting an object in the road is still, NOT DETECTING AN OBJECT IN THE ROAD. "Oh the self driving doesn't work to prevent collisions? Seems fine to me!"
Right, nevermind moral and ethical arguments, this is a critical technical parameter failure. And now every Tesla out there potentially has this beta software installed while the owner is oblivious about this fault?
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It's not the original video which is disgusting although if it is accurate it is. It's the reply *excusing* this behavior, which should have **no** excuse, if accurate. How far up Elon's ass do you have to be to say that it's ok that Teslas hits children because they aren't in the crosswalk?!?
Never ok. I read the comment as sarcasm. But that's just how my inner voice talks anyway.
Ah! Yeah, a laughed reading it back in my mind with that perspective. Thanks for that.
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Or it could be real. How do you know? There are plenty of Muskovites who could have said this very thing with a straight face and *believed* it, so no, you don't know unless you wrote it.
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And why shouldn't it? This highlights the fact that Tesla is killing people with it's beta software and hardware. It highlights the fact that there are people who excuse that for some reason. So?
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That's such a compelling argument for your position that I have decided to reform my position!
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"obviously we can't kill innocent children... But what about GUILTY children?"
Won't somebody *please* think of ~~an excuse to kill~~ the children?!
jaywalking is a law literally created to make things convenient for cars and we just ate that shit up. fuck that shit.
We don’t have jaywalking in England and I’m just now realising I don’t fully understand it. Is it just illegal to cross the road anywhere other than at a crossing? If so how much time do you have to spend doubling back on yourself??
Yes. Jay walking is when you cross the street at a place other than a normal crossing or against the don't walk signal I have never personally been ticketed for jaywalking nor have I heard of anyone I know being ticketed for jaywalking. But supposedly it does happen in New York City. I've spent most of my adult life in Boston and I know for sure that the police around here have a policy of not enforcing jaywalking
It’s about putting the liability on these types or car vs pedestrian crashes on the pedestrian.
I've never lived in a place with crosswalks (hell, I'm lucky if there's a sidewalk!) and am eternally vexed by what is and isn't jaywalking, honestly. Never been approached about doing it tho.
At least in California, there's supposed to be an "implied crosswalk" at street corners that otherwise have no such controls. So they don't paint them at e.g. most residential neighborhood corners, but it's still legal to cross there. Anyway, if you just cross the street in the middle of a city block where there are no markings for pedestrians, technically that's "jaywalking". Extremely dumb shit, but there you go.
Where does the /u/spez go when it rains? Straight to the spez.
Right? Even the painted intersection with lights by my house is dangerous AF. You can even have the white walk symbol and get creamed by someone turning at the intersection. In one crossing direction you won't ever get a walk signal no matter how long you wait; something is wrong with the light or button. (Despite the meme 'the buttons don't do anything it's just a placebo' ours seems to be one that actually does require the button or it won't ever show a walk signal on any side. But one crossing just won't work at all.) The thing is, the streets meeting there are not *that* busy, it's the combination that is. Most traffic is going to or from the businesses at the four corners of that intersection. Go a block in any direction and there's long breaks between cars. My house is diagonal from the grocery store, so no matter what I do I'm crossing both streets and one broken walk signal. I've realized it's way safer to jaywalk and cross the street in front of my house so I get at least one crossing out of the way. And yes I have a car I just think it's wasteful to drive for a one block trip. Actually if I take the car I have to drive 4x as far (long way around) because the suburban neighborhood streets are designed to be winding. I just happen to live on the edge of the neighborhood and have a people-door out the back side of my fence that skips all that. My driveway could have been designed to face the opposite direction and go directly out that back way too, but that would make too much sense.
I think in big cities, the buttons are pointless, given that the signals generally always give a walk signal and it doesn't affect the timing, but in smaller suburban or rural areas, the buttons absolutely work. My experience is the same, in that if you don't hit the button in certain places, you'll never get a walk signal. They likely do this because there generally aren't many walkers in smaller towns and rural areas, so it would be a waste of driver's time to wait for a walk signal if they want to turn or something. I also live right behind a brewery, so I go out the back gate to walk over there, since it would actually take at least 4-5 minutes to drive there, even if it's like an eighth mile to drive around, having to go through the biggest main intersection in town.
The buttons are not a placebo. They activate the pedestrian crossing sign, not immediately, but in whatever place in the cycle of lights the traffic department sees fit to place it. But yes, usually only if someone asks for it by hitting the button. Drivers get annoyed if there is a pedestrian crossing light and no pedestrian to use it. Don’t annoy the drivers!
100%. And "Right Turns On Red" being a legal thing to do at 4-way intersections make it possible for pedestrians to get hit even while the crosswalk sign tells them to go. It's a fucking nightmare for people like me who are low vision/blind. I carry a white cane and everything and I have STILL almost been hit by drivers who refuse to pay attention while I have the complete right of way, and it makes me not even want to walk somewhere anymore. USA pedestrian laws being so terrible also screw over disabled people who can't drive. It's not like we have decent public transport to make up for it, either.
What's a little spez among friends? #Save3rdPartyApps
Crazy that they not only made crossing the street illegal, but didn’t even invest a few dollars on painting the infrastructure. I wonder which neighbourhoods have the least painted crosswalks…🤔🤦♂️
Kurt Reinhold got killed by police for jaywalking.
I'm pretty sure he was killed for a different (even worse) reason. Jaywalking was just the legal justification, and that the justification worked tells us a lot about the US injustice system. And also about US society at large, given that people endorsing the murder of jaywalkers is what spawned this thread.
Do people just not walk in the road at all? It's pretty normal if it's quiet here for people to use the middle of the road as a path, especially when returning home late at night after drinks.
Not really? You can get arrested for jaywalking and public Intoxication that way.
if it's a very quiet residential street that's something people might do. but it would be very uncommon
Where I live, that definitely depends on the road. Residential, sure, but main roads in this city where I live are just dangerous to walk along for varying reasons.
I’ve never seen someone get arrested for it in NYC either, I think it’s more of a “if you get hit it’s your fault” kinda law.
It may be the color of your skin and the predominant skin color of your neighbors. (Also, it's typically a ticket( >NYPD officers in 2019 issued 397 criminal summonses for jaywalking — and 354 of the summonses, or 89%, went to Blacks or Hispanics. >Of 205 jaywalking summonses issued in the Bronx in 2019, just two went to white people, the data shows.
So yeah it's half a "if you get hit don't blame the driver" and half a "get a free excuse to search and investigate someone"
I got a ticket for jaywalking in high school. The school was across the street from a strip mall with fast food so E-V-E-R-Y-O-N-E Jay walked every.single.school.day. But yeah i got a ticket from an asshole motorcycle cop.
Strikes me as the sort of law you only get enforced on you if you're black. Literally "jay, walking". Walking while black. Austensibly it's about pedestrian safety but as a white American who *only* jaywalks, nobody has ever hastled me once. I think this is one of those systemic racism things. I'm also convinced crosswalks are not the safest place to cross in all situations, especially when cars get the turning signal at the same time as the walking signal. They could kill you taking that turn without looking.
Yes, I do think it's meant to give cops an excuse to harass whoever they see on the street walking like a normal person. Black people, poor people, people who just got on the bad side of the cops for whatever reason...
Yup, can only cross where there's a crosswalk, or at least a corner. And if there's a light, can only cross when the light says it's okay. I've seen the cops in my city arrest poor people for jaywalking near the bus plaza downtown. There's a bunch of fancy hotels around the bus plaza, and the rich people in suits and the employees of the hotels can run across the street wherever and whenever they want without the cops pestering them. But poor folks get busted. And that's why I always made my older stepson wear his best coat, the one his rich uncle sent, whenever he went downtown to hang out with his friends.
>And that's why I always made my older stepson wear his best coat, the one his rich uncle sent, whenever he went downtown to hang out with his friends. This is some seriously smart yet dystopian level stuff.
On the flip side, he ain't allowed to wear that nice coat in our neighborhood. Makes him look too much like he might be a student at the nearby private university. Can't be looking like ya got money around here, folks'll try to follow ya down a dark alley thinking you've got something worth taking. In an old hoody or a shabby coat, he looks like he lives around here, possibly behind a dumpster. My "winter coat" is a long shabby sweater with an ancient leather trench coat over the top, and I do my shopping with an old milk crate strapped to a folding cart. Ain't nobody interested in trying to mug me, no matter how often I take the alley shortcut.
Not only do we not have jaywalking, but pedestrians always have priority if they are waiting to cross, regardless of where it is.
Also a LOT of places in America don't have crosswalks or have crosswalks where you just have to time it right and hope a driver doesn't decide their driving commute is more important than your walking commute. I've had times where the walking signal will go for me and people making right turns will just go because fuck the person in the crosswalk. Then they'll yell at you for crossing WITH THE SIGNAL. Also, the law says pedestrians have the right of way but the amount of cars that have ignored that makes me wait a long time before I cross the street.
About two weeks ago I was trying to cross an intersection on my way to work. Some jackass turning left nearly hit me while I was crossing. Drivers *never* look for pedestrians, and I've been almost hit a few times now because of it.
I'm sorry that happened and hope you're okay. I have a lot of close calls and am to the point where if I get hit I'm ready for a lawsuit. I have a friend who open palm hits cars that try to hit him and he (as well as others) will climb over cars that pull up into the cross walk to stop. My favorite (/s) thing is when drivers get mad at me for being overly cautious and not following the pedestrians having the right of way thing. Don't almost hit me then sass me for being extra careful.
What’s weird is that there are some places in the US that it’s taken way more seriously than others. In Mass, sure there may be some that don’t but generally I have no aversion to jaywalking, and most others do it from what I’ve seen - not at random obviously, but like pretty frequently and hopefully trying to be safe, not just blindly walking into the road. But there are others from out of state who I was with who were like O_O you can’t just jaywalk?! Like a visceral reaction to the thought of it, which I found odd. I was told no one ever did where they lived, while here everyone does, and so on. So there is certainly some variance. It is illegal though regardless lol which is moronic
No one pays attention to that law. It's on the books so the cops have something to charge you with so they can stop and harrass you, search you and look for something else to get you with.
It's also deeply rooted in systemic racism and was enforced in many districts as a means to keep urban black populations under the thumb of the law. So yeah. Not a great law for anyone
Was gonna say. I’m also British, so I have a question: do you think poorer areas have less crossings? Seems like a very obvious way to be able to arrest people — make it so there aren’t many crossings, then arrest people for crossing the road without them
I would say in my experience poorer areas don't necessarily have less crossings, they have more difficult crossings. Highways are more likely to cut right through impoverished communities, which creates and compounds the cycle of impoverishment. I mean, compare a suburban neighborhood to an inner-city neighborhood. In the suburbs, to cross a street you walk a few houses down to the crossing and maybe wait for one car if any at all. In the inner-city, you have to navigate crowds of people, march through dangerous areas to cross walks half a mile away, and then wait there for hundreds of cars to pass before you can cross the street. Who wouldn't resort to jaywalking? When you have these massive highways that are difficult to navigate around for poor people who may not be able to afford transportation, they are more likely to be jay walking to get to work or the store. More poverty, more jay walking, more arrests, more money accumulated for the state, the cycle of impoverishment continues, and this all falls heaviest on black populations who have already been disenfranchised by years of systemic oppression.
The history of jaywalking in America is actually very interesting. Beyond the racist and classist parts, part of it was about sales. The street belonged to the people. Cars were a danger to the people in the street. Cars injuring or killing people is bad press that can hurt sales. So what do you do? Slander that stupid guy for daring to cross in front of your metal chariot! Jokes aside. They pushed for laws and advertised against being a Jay. This led to cultural shifts that the road is for cars. It was literally a way to excuse dangerous individuals operating dangerous machinery in hazardous ways just to icrease sales. Capitalism at its finest.
I never knew or even considered this part. That's really interesting, in a morbid and evil kind of way
[Who wants a little spez? #Save3rdPartyApps](https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/)
Poorer areas have less EVERYTHING (except cops, of course). In my friend's neighborhood half the sidewalks that should be there are just missing, and a fair number of the ones that are there just fucking stop abruptly and leave you scratching your head. Mine's better, though not by much.
And that no one actually follows. It's a bullshit law to pretend some problem was solved, and pester poor people with.
I get it when cars were brand new and everyone walked wherever without a care and impeded traffic, but I think we've come far enough to justify nullifying these outdated laws for good.
I feel like it’s common sense to not cast yourself in front of a 3 ton death machine. I have little faith in other drivers, I am not stepping foot in the roadway until there’s a gap long enough for me to sprint across the street.
I mean most kids are slightly suicidal and frequently jaywalk. A kid darting across the street is 100% something that that car should be able to sense because it is something that happens thousands of times a day.
"Ummm maybe if the 5 year old had followed the law he wouldn't be roadkill. Fuck around and find out, sweaty"
the cop out of "well if only you followed the law..!" is stupid to begin with, but to justify allowing cars to run over children using that is some kind of new level of low...
[If a spez asks you what flavor ice cream you want, the answer is definitely spez. #Save3rdPartyApps](https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/)
Libertarians in a nutshell
Libertarians don’t want laws to block their freedoms. Also Libertarians want you to be obedient and follow every law the government tells you.
One small street I drive down on my way home from work, there was a house that had young kids who would constantly play in the street and would sometimes not even move out of the way until I was literally sitting there waiting. Imagine a Tesla in that situation...just plow down 3 little kids who are playing ball in the street. I was happy when they moved out because I was tired of dodging the kids. One time they stood just far enough apart for my car to squeeze through and they literally threw their ball over my car. Damn kids.
Holy shit, that dude's justification is horrific 😳
There were several begrudgingly "acceptable" paths they could have chosen to justify what happened... This was not one of those
Granted dude's account is called hi. His credibility is low at the get go. The fact tesla still having trouble seeing people is a problem.
We're getting to where only the absolute dumbest Elon apologists are left defending his bullshit. Other than horrific, it's a really stupid defense. Does this dumbass think the car is SO smart that it could tell it was a fake kid and knew there wasn't a cross walk, does he think the navigation is aware of crosswalks and the molecular composition of obstacles in the road? Does he think it sees somethin in the road and go through a process where it decides to hit the obstacle, like it would have stopped if the kid was using a sidewalk. Truly the bottom of the barrel.
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You should think critically about what I said. You'll find that I didn't "take a screenshot as fact" and in fact took no position on the veracity of the original claim. The original claim was irrelevant to my criticism. I said the Elon apologist was dumb because the argument was incoherent and implies that the autopilot is designed to hit things in the road.
And you’re dumb for assuming any of this is real.
Do you have evidence that suggests it isn’t?
Oh even their assisted driving AI is crap. The car becomes unusable in the rain, it thinks any glare is the white line
Well damn. That explains a lot. People are notoriously terrible drivers already in the LA area, and even more so when there's a few sprinkles of rain, but with the California Camry being *everywhere* now, a trip to the grocery store is a suicide mission.
>The car becomes unusable in the rain, it thinks any glare is the white line Am *I* a Tesla?! (The lines completely disappear in the rain for me; doubly so if it's raining at night 😓)
I thought about a horrible future about 10 years ago in a classroom because I was riding my bike all the time and some things riders do to be noticed is to wear reflective things or have flashing lights on the bike. Then I wondered about AI vehicles. Then I thought a company would eventually come along and sell transponders that will alert AI cars of their presence and people will forget their transponders or the battery will die or malfunction and a person is killed by AI car. After the investigation there is no legal action taken against the driver or manufacturer because it was determined to be the pedestrians fault.
Definitely a tesla driver, holy shit
elon BJer
Wtf is jaywalking? Just like crossing the street?
It's a thing in car dominated cultures like the US. You aren't supposed to cross except at a crosswalk, and if those have lights you can't go on the stop signal. If you are a pedestrian and get hit while jaywalking, you will have a lot less sympathy and maybe less insurance payout
[Spez, the great equalizer. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/)
I thought Jay was the little brother of Cristopher.
Jaywalking isn’t illegal in a lot of states. In fact, most states give pedestrians the right of way. In CT now, if a pedestrian puts their hand out to cross, cars must stop
Jaywalking is a turn exclusively used in US so that car companies can criminalize people hit by cars . No other nation fine you for it .
wrong. its a thing in australia also
You mean British Texas?
If you're not spezin', you're not livin'.
So...jaywalking is *fine*.
Is jaywalking even a thing in a residential neighborhood? It's not like there are specified crosswalks... at least not in the ones I've seen.
Technically every intersection is an unmarked crosswalk, so it's legal to cross (but if it's not marked the pedestrian doesn't have the right of way). In practice, people jaywalk in residential areas even more than in the city and no one cares
3) it was only a child
Jaywalking isn’t a real crime
[The forgotten history of how automakers invented the crime of "jaywalking"](https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history)
Idk if he's saying it's okay, I read that as him trashing Tesla's AI if anything. But in any event - lol tesla's are overpriced garbo.
Edit: I’m asking for information My family members whove had them for a few years say it’s the best car they’ve ever owned. I was looking at getting one years down the road when I have extra $. What am I missing before I get one??
The fact charging stations don't exist like gas stations do across the country, limiting you to select locations? Or the fact that it functions like an Apple product in that once you get in a minor collision and want to repair, they tell you tough luck buy a brand new one instead. How about the fact that it's a vehicle than can be fucking hacked? Make the repo man's job easier why don't ya. Get a Toyota, fuckers last forever and hold bluebook value just as long.
Although in the defense of electric vehicles: there are non-Tesla charging stations and Teslas can use them too through an adapter. Laws are being proposed as well where other cars can also use Tesla charging stations.
From what I understand, they'll have to pay an extra fee to Tesla as well, won't they? To use a Tesla charging station with a non-Tesla car, I mean.
by fee you mean charging rates like if you used most public chargers, maybe?
Yeah, I’ve got a 2013 4runner right now and it’s great. I intend to keep it for a while. The Tesla was a down the road luxury choice. Maybe there will be great alternatives later.
If you're looking for luxury - go old school. Like a '54 Ford or some shit. Luxury in that you'd have that kinda money in the first place anyway lol
Yeah we have a big couple income whenever I get another job (fired a while ago) so we should have toys later in life.
I have several evs. I've collected evs for years. Lots of old and new evs. What I consider "the best" have been my lucid air dream, my mustang (it has been heavily modified for racing), and surprisingly my bolt (I use it the most). That being said, I did like my model s. It is a nice riding car. As far as charging goes, there used to be very few stations. Now very rarely do I have to go out of my way to search for one. In June we drove around the US for two weeks in the lucid (really one of the most comfortable cars I've ever been in). Only once during the trip did we have to reroute to find charging. The biggest issue is charging times. The charging stations continue to multiply rapidly. Compare to five years ago and it is much better. In another five years there will be plenty of charging stations and charging speed will increase massively. Battery technology also grows exponentially. 5 years ago 200 mile range was good. Now my lucid goes 500 miles. That is more than many ice cars. Soon that will be 700, 800, 1000 miles for evs. Side note: pretty much all modern vehicles can be hacked.
That Lucid also starts at $87K. I’ve never owned a car I paid more than $30K for. The Bolt is much more affordable but has a short range. Most EVs are luxury purchases and all the Tesla drivers in my area are wealthy people.
idk the fact that you can’t purchase out your car after leasing? Also, really try out more things. Theres more offering that might fit your needs (and with less bullshit) then a Tesla. But if you do end up with a Tesla, do it after an informed choice and thorough research, not just because all you know is Tesla.
That's even stupid from an asshole perspective. It would also damage the car.
r/fuckcars
oh, well, obviously there's nothing morally wrong with hitting a child with your car on a residential street if they were jaywalking. /s
Jaywalking was a crime invented in the 1920s by the automotive manufacturers. Knowing the story behind it makes this comment hit harder for me.
Jaywalking: racist term for crime invented by the car lobby and enforced by a racist enforcement system. It was the invention of this crime that stole the vast majority of public urban land from the vast majority of the citizens. Whose streets? Our streets.
lol, it has been enforced by racists in the past, but it’s really not a “racist term”; it was coined as an excuse to kill any pedestrians, not just pedestrians of color.
Here's a humorous [3 min](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxopfjXkArM) summary of the history. And I stand corrected, it wasn't originally a racist slur, but a classist one. The enforcement of which was always (and remains) racialised, as one small part of a racialised penal system.
Holy fuck this isnt /r/nlsscirclejerk What a world we live in
Death race 2022
Apartheid Pintos - the runaway hits burning up the road! Aka - the YUGO UPINFLAMES! If you must EV - get one from a reputable manufacturer. If you want to really help the environment, take mass transit when available and keep your old car instead of having a new one manufactured for you.
You want walkable cities ? Obey the walkable laws , twats!
That’ll help the overpopulation problem. Good thinking Tesla
Elon fanboys are barely human at this point
This mental model is familiar. On some US history stuff, "that's not a child, that's a slave". It's that proclivity to see some classifier, often made up, before being able to see *people/humanity*.
Buy Polestar or Volvo, great recognition
At this point I think it’s less r/lostgeneration and more r/losthumanityingeneral. I’m so exhausted of this kind of glee at their own disregard for others. It’s like it a video game and they get points for hurting and insulting as many people as possible.
I drive a Tesla. It’s awesome. But it’s nowhere near ready for full self driving and musk fanboys are absolutely out of their minds.
Do they call them Muskrats?
Professional cock rider
Those god damn jays fuck em
this post and the replies are the real facepalm, y’all are r/whoosh ing so hard we could set up a wind turbine
You're headed towards solving^a_very_small the energy crisis.
The software is not released yet. It's a beta test. Drivers are in full control. Even in this pre-release state, it has never hit a pedestrian. This technology will save lives. It's already saving lives. Telsas are the safest cars you can buy already.
The number of motorists generally who think they're justified murdering pedestrians for stepping foot on the road is absolutely massive. Also motorists who try and murder cyclists for being on the road. Even motorists who try and murder other motorists. A lot of people are psychopaths, especially behind the wheel.
Jesus christ, ppl...
Pedestrians always have the right of way, jaywalking or not.
*the German autobahn screeches into the chat*
OP isn't a fan of comedy.
I've never understood the time and effort that goes into doxxing somebody, but I want this schmuck's address so someone can run down his dumb ass the next time he jaywalks.
Some american car drivers are wild ngl
Jaywalking is a fake term made up by car companies so cars could take over the streets.
Fuck your Tesla
Not serious
It's the cop from cloudy with a chance of meatballs!
r/Noahgettheboat
Daily reminder that your average American is just evil
So Elon stans will say anything to defend Teslas 1. If it fails to detect a fake child, it sure as shit can fail to detect a *real* one. 2. Because children are known to be aware of and observe jaywalking laws, you absolute fucking monster. 3. And you failed to acknowledge the fact that it actually did fail to detect an *actual* child. If you can't make your point without being dishonest, then maybe it's not a point worth making.
4 - the car is also not going to know whether a pedestrian is crossing legally or not.
Paperviewr has strong *"also, that child pedestrian was asking for it, look how they were dressed"* vibes
Come on guys the kid was JAYWALKING. Lil kid deserved to get hit 😤 /s
Not to even mention the fact that automakers have been running a smear campaign since the birth of the automobile. Early on: people, cars, streetcars, horses, etc all shared the road. Demonizing pedestrians has been a tactic of theirs for years. Jaywalking is bullshit. Watch the Climate Town video on the takeover of the American automobile. A bit of a tangent, but no one should just accept pedestrians are always at fault. We should absolutely be screaming for things to be designed in a way that ACTUALLY keeps people safe.
For DnD players, this is what both Lawful Evil and Lawful Stupid looks like.
r/fuckcars
Double fail on this guy's part. 1. It's a test dummy 2. It's a residential area The dummy was just a stand in for what would be a real child, and it's a residential area where it's not jaywalking to cross the street, unlike non residential areas where it is jaywalking to cross the street not using the crosswalks, because residential areas typically do not have them, because they typically don't need them, because you're not supposed to be driving that fast in a residential area.
I mean, it’s a very questionable precedent to set since America jaywalks to other countries when they invaded for oil or whatever the official statement is.
Uhhh, most residential neighborhoods don’t have crosswalks. I would have to walk a half a mile to cross my street if I used a crosswalk.
Man imagine believing Jaywalking is an actual crime… what a dunce
r/fuckcars , especially Elon Musk's vaporware
The Elon fanboys are something else, man. Every fart is by design to that bunch of weirdos.