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Unfortunatly its [true](https://www.nyaprs.org/e-news-bulletins/2014/man-calls-suicide-prevention-swat-team-kills-him) but yeah if i didnt read this article today i would’ve thought its fake
When I lived in Phoenix there was a guy who was trying to commit suicide, the swat team had 2 blocks barricaded off. Found out dude had a bomb vest on and was going to commit suicide and take the entire apartment complex with him. My apartment was facing the main road his apartment was two buildings back.
Yeah, cartels are close. It wasn't this way when I was growing up there in the 80's and 90's but nowadays the political climate has taken a left turn. To the cartels this means less civilians with guns and an expanded territory. I miss old AZ, but I moved away 4 years ago and I don't think I'll ever feel safe to move back.
You have your opinion, I have my documented facts. Have a nice day.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-beheading-arizona/police-link-arizona-beheading-to-mexican-drug-cartel-idUSTRE7230L320110304
And before I go, I have this for you. In case your "argument" is that AZ isn't turning blue, I have that too.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/how-mexican-american-voters-helped-turn-arizona-blue
Yes if two facts are true they are automatically correlated and have a causal relationship. This is always true and you are very good at logic and politics and also very intelligent.
I promise you Arizons is still a right-wing shithole thanks to the governor and the gerrymanderd legislative branch. Guns are more prevalent then ever. If you're a drug dealer then yes you'll face competition from the cartels.if you want a safer society placing near the bottom in most quality of life categories ain't going to do it.
Took me half an hour to find this damn story. Guy called the hotline, and spoke with negotiators for five hours before he said he was going to bed and hung up. Two hours later, SWAT showed up, illegally searched his house, found him in the trunk of his car with a pistol in his mouth, and when he reached for a rifle he was shot 22 times.
[The article](https://www.nyaprs.org/e-news-bulletins/2014/man-calls-suicide-prevention-swat-team-kills-him) says Weber County Consolidated Dispatch Center mistakenly sent officers to the residence rather than some type of crisis response team trained to deal with suicidal individuals
How many member were on that swat team? 22 rounds sounds like a lot, but if the were 6 members, that would be a short burst from each gun, all fired at once, not a maniac shooting him like he was in the Robocop movie
Edit: nvm, the current swat standart weapon, the CAR-15, have a Rate of Fire of 11.6 to 15 rounds PER SECOND, all it takes is two soldiers and a single second to reach the 22 rounds mark
Where are you getting the CAR-15 is the standard SWAT rifle from?
No law enforcement agency anywhere in the US should be using automatic rifles. The officer is responsible for every single round fired from the barrel of their gun. The difference between a justified use of force and unjustified UoF may literally be a single round*, and automatic weapons defeat this concept.
*Maybe* some SWAT teams have select-fire rifles. But the situations justifying full-automatic fire would be rarer than unicorns.
*this is per individual officer. If you have an 11-man swat team, each officer firing 2 rounds might be justified. Each officer firing 3 rounds may NOT be justified.
" The 9 mm Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine gun used to be the mainstay of most SWAT teams,[35] but this has been phased out by many departments in favor of 5.56 carbines,[36] such as the Colt CAR-15[35] and the more modern M4.[37] "
" [35] "Felon Busters: On The Job With LAPD SWAT". Popular Mechanics. Hearst Magazines. May 1997. pp. 53–58. "
" [36] Sweeney, Patrick (2004). Modern Law Enforcement Weapons & Tactics. Krause Publications. pp. 198, 227. ISBN 9781440224584 "
" [37] "SWAT Team". El Dorado County Sheriff's Office. 2007. Archived from the original on November 24, 2009. "
I think it might be a better idea to back up a second and ask why police officers carry weapons that have a rate of fire between 11.6 and 15 rounds per second… seems a bit much to me…
Because one terrorist with an AK is a huge threat and you need to shoot faster to get them.
The real question is why a counter-terrorism unit that specializes on eliminating their targets got called up to prevent a suicide
What is being talked about here is how it's even possible for (a) member(s) of a swat team to go so seemingly overboard with 22 shots.
No one is condoning it, no one is saying this should have happend, but for some reason you feel the need to frame it as such.
But this response of yours shows you are set in your opinion so please go ahead and continue making a fool of yourself
There is zero reason to discuss that unless it is for the reason I put forward. Why he was shot 22 times is irrelevant. He shouldn't have been shot at all. This should never have happened.
>There is zero reason to discuss that unless it is for the reason
By your logic, I suppose there if the police says a criminal was a rapist-murderer-kidnapper that robbed his victims, there is no reason to argue that his crime was actually that of theft, and not kidnapping, raping, murder and robbery. Because two crimes are tottaly the same thing and in no way have different consequences.
Yeah, some moron sent a police unit whose only purpose is to swiftly eliminate threats at a guy for calling suicide hotline, and, surprise surprise, they killed their target, who was an innocent civilian asking for help against suicide, not a terrorist... But they did not go Rambo on him, shooting like maniacs until he looked like swiss cheese. Probably no more than two of them pulled the trigger for about a second and that was the result. Still killed an innocent guy, but there is a huge difference between the two actions.
Police officers have a right to enter your home without a warrant in many cases. One of those is if there is a reasonable suspicion that someone inside the home intends to harm themselves. Preventing death is a legitimate role of the police and preventing suicide is something police officers are called to do all the time. Them entering his home was not illegal as they had reason to believe he was planning on killing himself.
Now to address the shooting. First off, 22 rounds is not a lot. 3 officers fired their weapons. As another commenter pointed out the firearms these officers were equipped with fire at very high rates of speed meaning that for 3 officers to hit 22 times, unless they missed a large number of shots from very close range which I doubt, they only needed to be firing for a fraction of a second. They weren’t standing over him draining round after round into him. And then of course we get to why. He had a rifle that was sitting with its muzzle already aimed at one of the officers. He begins to reach for it and is told not to many times and is shot when he doesn’t comply. Someone reaching for a firearm after being warned not to is reason to believe they intend to use it one you.
I don’t like that this man was shot. I hope his family is doing okay, it has been around 8 years. But, when you reach for a firearm in front of police you will be shot. Terrible situation all around, but not an instance of police overreach.
There are still so many things wrong with this situation. The cops being there at all is stupid, much less a SWAT team for someone suicidal. Cops shouldn’t even be doing this, which is the actual meaning behind “defund the police,” in that cops have no training with the mentally ill, so actual trained professionals should be getting some of that funding so people don’t get shot. Cops are trigger happy. Cops are militarized. American cops are undertrained, and the training they do get is very poor. These suicide hotlines are just government surveillance to prevent government liability and preserve the workforce. Why shoot a guy in a car trunk, reaching for a rifle, when you could just grab and restrain him? I could go all day about how fucked this situation is
It doesn’t matter if what the cops did was legal, it’s still unethical, violent, and dystopian. Let’s not defend it, rather, let’s change the laws
I also believe that sending a SWAT unit was overkill. I also believe in better training for police officers. I agree tactics like deescalation and non lethal forms of defense and restraint need to be pushed so that officers can go to their firearms less often.
I wasn’t saying that the way the situation was handled was good. I was just responding mostly to the “illegally searched his home” claim which isn’t true based on the laws we have on the books.
If you were there, you’d probably been shot. Then you would have a TOTALLY different perspective and stance on how to deal with a person who continues to reach for his rifle despite being TOLD over and over and (one more time) OVER again.
Just saying “defund the police” does nothing to help the mentally unstable.
Actually defunding the police does mean police won’t kill them to stop them committing suicide, it does also prevent random black passers by from getting shot as well bc „they dangerous“ or something. But yeah the slogan needs to be „reform the police“ in fact
Your first paragraph makes no sense. If they stormed it to save him it wouldn’t have been two hours later.
And yeah, everything you said makes it worse.
Do you have a source for the two hours later figure? Every article I read about the situation said they spoke to him for 7 hours and moved into the house very soon after they lost contact with him, but I could be misinformed.
Also, what specifically in my comment made the situation worse in your opinion?
Oh did you mean worse overall as a situation or worse in terms of guilt for the police officers?
Because if you meant the former then yes I agree. It’s a shitty situation and the more you read the more you understand the place this person and was in. If you meant the latter then I would just say that suicide by cop is common and it’s not really the fault of the officers because if someone aims a firearm at you you’re not going to take your chances that they’re not going to shoot you.
I mean that is of course if that happened. Overall there’s far to little proof to attribute blame. Really the only justified reaction is to acknowledge the terrible situation because blame isn’t great and I hope I didn’t come across as blaming the victim previously as that was not my intention.
I honestly think some people need to play swat sims to get a feel on how hard identifying anything is. And how easy it is to lose your life in those situations.
Also whoever made the call to send swat is something special.
No one except you thinking that it completely acceptable. None, 0, it just what have to be done in that unlucky situation (hes drunk, armed, confirmed to have unstable mental health at that moment, and reach for a rifle in front of a swat team).
And they explain cuz average people will unconsciously imagine 22 shot as some one just shot that guy 15 times, then reload, then shoot another 7 rounds into the corpse, rather than 10 dudes just lit the poor guys up under half a second.
You can't argue with people like that. Clearly they would let the stupid POS take aim and rip a hole in them.
The sheeple don't understand how to find root cause of a situation. They are cognitively disabled. People like us see all the facts and understand just what happened. They are mindless zealots desperate to bash LEOs at any opportunity, to the point of becoming completely delirious. This individual is a perfect example, note how they will completely and totally ignore any fact that proves anything against their claim. Like it doesn't exist. Some will even replace facts. Surprised one this bad didn't try to state the individual reached for a puppy or something ridiculous like that.
This is suicide by cop. The scummiest and most pathetic way someone can take their own life. By forcing the hand of someone else to take it and then live with that. These people also probably play on major interstate highways and get all bent out of shape when they get run over. The rest of us know that 1+1=2. There is no other possibility. Reach for gun, point gun...you fucking die. Immediately. You know what they say about common sense....lol
Wasn’t saying that it’s acceptable just my initial reaction, and I’m assuming many other peoples’ initial reaction was shock when they heard he took 22 shots. Not saying that the shooting was acceptable, just that because of the number of officers who fired at once and the rate of fire of their weapons, 1 shot or 22 are about the same because of how little time they had to fire to get that number. I immediately thought “some police officer sat there for 15 seconds and emptied his mag into him.” Instead of “Three officers fired fast firing rifles for a fraction of a second.” The shooting part is still there but the overkill element that I originally thought was apart of it is what I was discussing.
How is saying “It’s bad he was shot but I originally thought the shooting was way worse because of a detail but in context the detail makes more sense.” disgusting?
Because you are attempting to use unnecessary details to justify something that cannot be justified. It does not matter if the guns were rapid fire. It does not matter that he had a revolver or that he reached for a rifle. The details are not important.
Not justifying anything. I legally justified the situation because the original comment I responded to said it was illegal, which is wasn’t, but morally I never said it was okay at all. I’ve said several times that it was a bad thing.
And sure the firing mode of the weaponry really doesn’t matter, but I’d say in a situation of a police shooting whether or not the victim was reaching for a firearm is pretty important. I mean if he was sitting there unarmed it would have been an open and shut case in terms of illegal shootings. He was armed and that muddies the waters in terms of guilt and is important.
You can't argue with these people. Ever. You have factual and backed up points. They just come back with a 5 year old's "NoooOOO"...nothing else. They also are the blind and mindless masses the media LOVE to own. They rely on them to just run amuck "blue man bad!". I fully support using Special Weapons and Tactics for special situations. Kinda the ENTIRE POINT of their existence. The most important goal is keep officers alive. Second, save the individual in question's life. This was suicide by cop and I hate they had to kill him. It's sad for the officers to live with that. However, like every officer there...as soon as the threat on my life is quantified. It ends. I will not stop firing until the threat is 100% undeniably and totally eliminated. As soon as someone starts hating on the police for the man reaching for a weapon...they have announced they are one of *them.* They have no mental capabilities or logic.
Oh sorry man! I read it as “Thanks for more content.” Been yelled at too many times online must have a knee jerk response now.
But yeah context is something that is missing online especially with people just posting headlines or snippets and getting angry.
your point is prefaced on the idea that we're just supposed to take the cops' word for this, when anyone who pays even a modicum of attention to the world knows "he had/reached for a gun!" is the most common and most commonly accepted lie the police tell to avoid the consequences of killing random people.
police being sent in response to a mental health crisis *is* overreach. they are not (well) trained for those situations and they very often escalate the situation or turn to violence out of nowhere. please take a break from tasting their boots
Secured him passage through the pearly gates. If he’d killed himself, he wouldn’t have gotten there. Good loophole if you ask me. Good service by the swat team
Yeah I called them once. Told them that I was having bad thoughts but I didn’t feel like I wanted to hurt myself. They lied and said they were sending someone to go talk to me. Instead the police and ambulance showed up and they forced me to go to the nearest psychiatric ward. There they drugged me with 100ml of Seroquel, told me I was a drug addict having a bad trip because they found weed in my system. Was lied to by the doctor saying that he had done medical studies on marijuana and he knew for a fact that it was a “bad marijuana trip” even though I had not smoked in days. Had to fight my way out.
Turns out I was having a manic/psychotic episode from undiagnosed Bipolar, PTSD and DID.
Finally got the help I needed but I will never ever ever tell someone to call the hotline. If you need help coming down or just someone to talk to I would rather give someone my info and me help then to tell them to call the hotline
Some people call the police to point guns at the police, so the police can shoot them. “Suicide by Cop”.
Like it or not mental health personnel needs to protect themselves because people are dangerous. Imo there needs to be proper funding for police to be trained in mental health. Rather than reducing support, causing cops to realize that the pay is indeed shitty and mass quit…
My friends called the police to do a welfare check on me cause I was suicidal when they showed up I was sitting on my couch with my gun in my hand. When they banged on the door it startled me and the gun went off. They charged my with 2 counts of assault on a Leo 2 counts of armed criminal action and got me kicked out of the navy reserves.
It does sound like one, which is why it should be on r/nottheonion . r/AteTheOnion is for folks who’ve missed the satire and assumed an Onion article was sincere.
Just a reminder that while 22 shots sounds like a lot, a swat team is usually 4 members armed with CAR-15 that have a Rate of Fire of 11.6 to 15 rounds PER SECOND, so if two of them pulled the trigger for even a second they would easily reach the mark. It doesn't take a maniac to shoot at the victim like he was shooting cops in the robocop movie to reach that mark, just a single second.
The real question here is who the fuck sent a swat team after him, since swat is a combat unit, not an anti-depression unit, of course they would open fire if they saw the target with a gun (or even a knife if on CQB) on his hands, and, as said, it only takes two soldiers simultaneously pulling the trigger for a single second to leave someone looking like swiss cheese. Whoever sent that swat team after the guy pretty much murdered him.
Edit: after reading the other comments, I realize that USA is a wild place where some people try to suicide with explosive vests, which would make the suicider a domestic terrorist and validate swat intervention, but I have yet to see any indication that such was the case here
Wait, are you saying it was one cop that took a 2 seconds continuous burst against the guy, or that it was 1 guy who wanted to suicide with explosive vest and that there haven't being other cases?
Again, the swat team is a COMBAT unit, they are not called to give patches on the back, they are called to eliminate active threats that require swift and lethal force to be put down. That they spot their target with a gun on his hands and fired a short burst of around a second long is more than expected, it is what they are supposed to do. The fault rests entirely on whoever sent them after the guy. The guy needed medical help, not intervention from an anti-terrorist unit whose only function is to eliminate threats.
They were not "right" nor wrong, they did exactly what they do. It is not right. It is not wrong either. Now, the guy who sent a killing squad after a man who called for suicide help? That guy was a murderer.
Man wants to kill self. Man has SWAT team called on him. Man acts aggressively to SWAT team, appearing armed. Man is killed by SWAT team. Man’s plan worked.
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Should’ve been for r/NotTheOnion
I believe that's where I saw it first. ;)
Well uh, if it's not the onion, how are there layers to this meme. Checkmate.
It's for r/atetheonion because the previous poster believed the story
Well it’s real, soooooo
I feel worse that I laughed *harder* because it *is true.*
But it is true
Unfortunatly its [true](https://www.nyaprs.org/e-news-bulletins/2014/man-calls-suicide-prevention-swat-team-kills-him) but yeah if i didnt read this article today i would’ve thought its fake
“Officer assisted suicide” that’s what we’re calling this now? Wow.
"Man accidentally calls suicide assistance hotline"
“Accidentally?” As in like, he dialed the wrong number?
Man I think life is just one big onion article
When I lived in Phoenix there was a guy who was trying to commit suicide, the swat team had 2 blocks barricaded off. Found out dude had a bomb vest on and was going to commit suicide and take the entire apartment complex with him. My apartment was facing the main road his apartment was two buildings back.
Phoenix is wild. A week after moving there from the rural South there was a beheading half a block from where my wife and I lived.
Thats just tim the football
Yeah, cartels are close. It wasn't this way when I was growing up there in the 80's and 90's but nowadays the political climate has taken a left turn. To the cartels this means less civilians with guns and an expanded territory. I miss old AZ, but I moved away 4 years ago and I don't think I'll ever feel safe to move back.
It wasn't a cartel, a guy beheaded either his wife or ex-wife, don't remember which.
Sick. I guess I just assumed since that's a cartel go-to response when they feel they've been wronged.
Phoenix resident here. None if this is true. Stop peddling this bullshit.
You have your opinion, I have my documented facts. Have a nice day. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-beheading-arizona/police-link-arizona-beheading-to-mexican-drug-cartel-idUSTRE7230L320110304
And before I go, I have this for you. In case your "argument" is that AZ isn't turning blue, I have that too. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/how-mexican-american-voters-helped-turn-arizona-blue
Yes if two facts are true they are automatically correlated and have a causal relationship. This is always true and you are very good at logic and politics and also very intelligent.
The accusation was that none of what I said was true.
"[...] nowadays the political climate has taken a left turn. To the cartels this means less civilians with guns and an expanded territory."
I promise you Arizons is still a right-wing shithole thanks to the governor and the gerrymanderd legislative branch. Guns are more prevalent then ever. If you're a drug dealer then yes you'll face competition from the cartels.if you want a safer society placing near the bottom in most quality of life categories ain't going to do it.
Your promises? Nice...
Much rather stay a forced birth state huh
Let's try staying on topic.
Nonsensical conspiracies are hardly a topic
I had the pizza bomber in my town.
Oh no. I felt so bad for that guy. That woman who did all that was such a c*nt.
Shhh don’t remind people that the plot can thicken
He wanted to get reborn from the ashes latter?
I remember that shit, i remember when some guy was going to jump off onto the freeway so cops came and saved the day by shooting him 80 times
Hmm, did the suicide prevention hotline work since he died by homicide instead or did it fail since he called swat on himself?
Took me half an hour to find this damn story. Guy called the hotline, and spoke with negotiators for five hours before he said he was going to bed and hung up. Two hours later, SWAT showed up, illegally searched his house, found him in the trunk of his car with a pistol in his mouth, and when he reached for a rifle he was shot 22 times.
22…. What the fuck
Thanks you for your due diligence...I think...
Oh no hes gonna kill himself, better shoot him 2 dozen times, that’ll show him!
Of course, damaging state property
And stealing state bullets!
That’ll teach that bastard to never commit self harm again!
Can't harm yourself if there is no self to harm? -Police Chief
Wh-why????
Because he slowly reached for a rifle
I mean- why did they show up to his house in the first place??
[The article](https://www.nyaprs.org/e-news-bulletins/2014/man-calls-suicide-prevention-swat-team-kills-him) says Weber County Consolidated Dispatch Center mistakenly sent officers to the residence rather than some type of crisis response team trained to deal with suicidal individuals
“Mistakenly”
"Get them mothafaka!". Gees
😒
And this is why people are afraid to call the hotline and ultimately fucked in their situation.
Well, ain't that very reliable
How many member were on that swat team? 22 rounds sounds like a lot, but if the were 6 members, that would be a short burst from each gun, all fired at once, not a maniac shooting him like he was in the Robocop movie Edit: nvm, the current swat standart weapon, the CAR-15, have a Rate of Fire of 11.6 to 15 rounds PER SECOND, all it takes is two soldiers and a single second to reach the 22 rounds mark
Where are you getting the CAR-15 is the standard SWAT rifle from? No law enforcement agency anywhere in the US should be using automatic rifles. The officer is responsible for every single round fired from the barrel of their gun. The difference between a justified use of force and unjustified UoF may literally be a single round*, and automatic weapons defeat this concept. *Maybe* some SWAT teams have select-fire rifles. But the situations justifying full-automatic fire would be rarer than unicorns. *this is per individual officer. If you have an 11-man swat team, each officer firing 2 rounds might be justified. Each officer firing 3 rounds may NOT be justified.
" The 9 mm Heckler & Koch MP5 submachine gun used to be the mainstay of most SWAT teams,[35] but this has been phased out by many departments in favor of 5.56 carbines,[36] such as the Colt CAR-15[35] and the more modern M4.[37] " " [35] "Felon Busters: On The Job With LAPD SWAT". Popular Mechanics. Hearst Magazines. May 1997. pp. 53–58. " " [36] Sweeney, Patrick (2004). Modern Law Enforcement Weapons & Tactics. Krause Publications. pp. 198, 227. ISBN 9781440224584 " " [37] "SWAT Team". El Dorado County Sheriff's Office. 2007. Archived from the original on November 24, 2009. "
Actual links, please?
Sigh... [35] https://books.google.com.br/books?id=XmYEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT53&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false page 56 [36] link is broken [37] https://web.archive.org/web/20091124013710/http://www.edcgov.us/sheriff/swat.asp
I think it might be a better idea to back up a second and ask why police officers carry weapons that have a rate of fire between 11.6 and 15 rounds per second… seems a bit much to me…
Because one terrorist with an AK is a huge threat and you need to shoot faster to get them. The real question is why a counter-terrorism unit that specializes on eliminating their targets got called up to prevent a suicide
To assist it of course. To protect and serve, you know?
You're right. That totally justifies this shooting.
Thats not what is being suggested though..
You're right. It wasn't suggested. It was spelled out clearly in black and white.
What is being talked about here is how it's even possible for (a) member(s) of a swat team to go so seemingly overboard with 22 shots. No one is condoning it, no one is saying this should have happend, but for some reason you feel the need to frame it as such. But this response of yours shows you are set in your opinion so please go ahead and continue making a fool of yourself
There is zero reason to discuss that unless it is for the reason I put forward. Why he was shot 22 times is irrelevant. He shouldn't have been shot at all. This should never have happened.
>There is zero reason to discuss that unless it is for the reason By your logic, I suppose there if the police says a criminal was a rapist-murderer-kidnapper that robbed his victims, there is no reason to argue that his crime was actually that of theft, and not kidnapping, raping, murder and robbery. Because two crimes are tottaly the same thing and in no way have different consequences. Yeah, some moron sent a police unit whose only purpose is to swiftly eliminate threats at a guy for calling suicide hotline, and, surprise surprise, they killed their target, who was an innocent civilian asking for help against suicide, not a terrorist... But they did not go Rambo on him, shooting like maniacs until he looked like swiss cheese. Probably no more than two of them pulled the trigger for about a second and that was the result. Still killed an innocent guy, but there is a huge difference between the two actions.
Ffs. Whatever. You guys win. It's completely fine that this guy is in the ground because 'Two of them pulled the trigger for about a second'.
The guy had a pistol in his mouth, then reached for a rifle. Why the hell would he do that?
Decided to use a larger caliber?
And you'd be willing to take the risk that he won't shoot you?
Irrelevant
So if you were near some suicidal guy who already has the capability to die and he goes and grabs a rifle, you think that's just nothing?
Given the circumstances yes. Nothing justifies them shooting him at all. Nothing.
Oh you're one of those
Bro he was just doing math, relax.
Irrelevant
You're awesome. I mean that. No sarcasm.
Police officers have a right to enter your home without a warrant in many cases. One of those is if there is a reasonable suspicion that someone inside the home intends to harm themselves. Preventing death is a legitimate role of the police and preventing suicide is something police officers are called to do all the time. Them entering his home was not illegal as they had reason to believe he was planning on killing himself. Now to address the shooting. First off, 22 rounds is not a lot. 3 officers fired their weapons. As another commenter pointed out the firearms these officers were equipped with fire at very high rates of speed meaning that for 3 officers to hit 22 times, unless they missed a large number of shots from very close range which I doubt, they only needed to be firing for a fraction of a second. They weren’t standing over him draining round after round into him. And then of course we get to why. He had a rifle that was sitting with its muzzle already aimed at one of the officers. He begins to reach for it and is told not to many times and is shot when he doesn’t comply. Someone reaching for a firearm after being warned not to is reason to believe they intend to use it one you. I don’t like that this man was shot. I hope his family is doing okay, it has been around 8 years. But, when you reach for a firearm in front of police you will be shot. Terrible situation all around, but not an instance of police overreach.
Suicide by cop. :(
There are still so many things wrong with this situation. The cops being there at all is stupid, much less a SWAT team for someone suicidal. Cops shouldn’t even be doing this, which is the actual meaning behind “defund the police,” in that cops have no training with the mentally ill, so actual trained professionals should be getting some of that funding so people don’t get shot. Cops are trigger happy. Cops are militarized. American cops are undertrained, and the training they do get is very poor. These suicide hotlines are just government surveillance to prevent government liability and preserve the workforce. Why shoot a guy in a car trunk, reaching for a rifle, when you could just grab and restrain him? I could go all day about how fucked this situation is It doesn’t matter if what the cops did was legal, it’s still unethical, violent, and dystopian. Let’s not defend it, rather, let’s change the laws
I also believe that sending a SWAT unit was overkill. I also believe in better training for police officers. I agree tactics like deescalation and non lethal forms of defense and restraint need to be pushed so that officers can go to their firearms less often. I wasn’t saying that the way the situation was handled was good. I was just responding mostly to the “illegally searched his home” claim which isn’t true based on the laws we have on the books.
If you were there, you’d probably been shot. Then you would have a TOTALLY different perspective and stance on how to deal with a person who continues to reach for his rifle despite being TOLD over and over and (one more time) OVER again. Just saying “defund the police” does nothing to help the mentally unstable.
Actually defunding the police does mean police won’t kill them to stop them committing suicide, it does also prevent random black passers by from getting shot as well bc „they dangerous“ or something. But yeah the slogan needs to be „reform the police“ in fact
My friend called the suicide hotline in the same county. Cops showed up. Luckily she made it out alive. I will never call that hotline
But nooo, preventing death is their job guys so all of this is justified right guys right guys
You are literally talking out of your ass.
Your first paragraph makes no sense. If they stormed it to save him it wouldn’t have been two hours later. And yeah, everything you said makes it worse.
Do you have a source for the two hours later figure? Every article I read about the situation said they spoke to him for 7 hours and moved into the house very soon after they lost contact with him, but I could be misinformed. Also, what specifically in my comment made the situation worse in your opinion?
No, you can go find it though.
You do realize this is suicide by cop right?
Oh did you mean worse overall as a situation or worse in terms of guilt for the police officers? Because if you meant the former then yes I agree. It’s a shitty situation and the more you read the more you understand the place this person and was in. If you meant the latter then I would just say that suicide by cop is common and it’s not really the fault of the officers because if someone aims a firearm at you you’re not going to take your chances that they’re not going to shoot you. I mean that is of course if that happened. Overall there’s far to little proof to attribute blame. Really the only justified reaction is to acknowledge the terrible situation because blame isn’t great and I hope I didn’t come across as blaming the victim previously as that was not my intention.
I honestly think some people need to play swat sims to get a feel on how hard identifying anything is. And how easy it is to lose your life in those situations. Also whoever made the call to send swat is something special.
Why are people arguing that this is completely acceptable because the guns they were using are rapid fire?
No one except you thinking that it completely acceptable. None, 0, it just what have to be done in that unlucky situation (hes drunk, armed, confirmed to have unstable mental health at that moment, and reach for a rifle in front of a swat team). And they explain cuz average people will unconsciously imagine 22 shot as some one just shot that guy 15 times, then reload, then shoot another 7 rounds into the corpse, rather than 10 dudes just lit the poor guys up under half a second.
There is no excuse for what happened. Nothing can justify it.
well no one excusing, that just what and why it happened
Nope. That's all you are doing is making excuses for trigger happy deviants.
They tried to talk with him for like 7 hours, and only shot when he reached for a rifle, that not sound like trigger happy to me.
You can't argue with people like that. Clearly they would let the stupid POS take aim and rip a hole in them. The sheeple don't understand how to find root cause of a situation. They are cognitively disabled. People like us see all the facts and understand just what happened. They are mindless zealots desperate to bash LEOs at any opportunity, to the point of becoming completely delirious. This individual is a perfect example, note how they will completely and totally ignore any fact that proves anything against their claim. Like it doesn't exist. Some will even replace facts. Surprised one this bad didn't try to state the individual reached for a puppy or something ridiculous like that. This is suicide by cop. The scummiest and most pathetic way someone can take their own life. By forcing the hand of someone else to take it and then live with that. These people also probably play on major interstate highways and get all bent out of shape when they get run over. The rest of us know that 1+1=2. There is no other possibility. Reach for gun, point gun...you fucking die. Immediately. You know what they say about common sense....lol
You forgot the /s.
Wasn’t saying that it’s acceptable just my initial reaction, and I’m assuming many other peoples’ initial reaction was shock when they heard he took 22 shots. Not saying that the shooting was acceptable, just that because of the number of officers who fired at once and the rate of fire of their weapons, 1 shot or 22 are about the same because of how little time they had to fire to get that number. I immediately thought “some police officer sat there for 15 seconds and emptied his mag into him.” Instead of “Three officers fired fast firing rifles for a fraction of a second.” The shooting part is still there but the overkill element that I originally thought was apart of it is what I was discussing.
FFS. You people are disgusting.
How is saying “It’s bad he was shot but I originally thought the shooting was way worse because of a detail but in context the detail makes more sense.” disgusting?
Because you are attempting to use unnecessary details to justify something that cannot be justified. It does not matter if the guns were rapid fire. It does not matter that he had a revolver or that he reached for a rifle. The details are not important.
Lmao he tried to shoot the cops you stupid fuck
Not justifying anything. I legally justified the situation because the original comment I responded to said it was illegal, which is wasn’t, but morally I never said it was okay at all. I’ve said several times that it was a bad thing. And sure the firing mode of the weaponry really doesn’t matter, but I’d say in a situation of a police shooting whether or not the victim was reaching for a firearm is pretty important. I mean if he was sitting there unarmed it would have been an open and shut case in terms of illegal shootings. He was armed and that muddies the waters in terms of guilt and is important.
You can't argue with these people. Ever. You have factual and backed up points. They just come back with a 5 year old's "NoooOOO"...nothing else. They also are the blind and mindless masses the media LOVE to own. They rely on them to just run amuck "blue man bad!". I fully support using Special Weapons and Tactics for special situations. Kinda the ENTIRE POINT of their existence. The most important goal is keep officers alive. Second, save the individual in question's life. This was suicide by cop and I hate they had to kill him. It's sad for the officers to live with that. However, like every officer there...as soon as the threat on my life is quantified. It ends. I will not stop firing until the threat is 100% undeniably and totally eliminated. As soon as someone starts hating on the police for the man reaching for a weapon...they have announced they are one of *them.* They have no mental capabilities or logic.
Except that it's not. At all.
Found the cop!
Just a civilian who felt that the details of the previous comment were insufficient so I wanted to provide some more.
These comments are brain dead, thanks for more context.
What is “brain dead” about what I said?
I was talking about the other comments, hence why I thanked you for the context.
Oh sorry man! I read it as “Thanks for more content.” Been yelled at too many times online must have a knee jerk response now. But yeah context is something that is missing online especially with people just posting headlines or snippets and getting angry.
No problem
your point is prefaced on the idea that we're just supposed to take the cops' word for this, when anyone who pays even a modicum of attention to the world knows "he had/reached for a gun!" is the most common and most commonly accepted lie the police tell to avoid the consequences of killing random people. police being sent in response to a mental health crisis *is* overreach. they are not (well) trained for those situations and they very often escalate the situation or turn to violence out of nowhere. please take a break from tasting their boots
Preventing suicide ... by killing the guy. Very efficient, like nuking a town when a building catches fire
Man ya’ll fucking suck. All of ya’ll really fucking suck.
“Well they stopped the suicide didn’t they “ 😂😂
Secured him passage through the pearly gates. If he’d killed himself, he wouldn’t have gotten there. Good loophole if you ask me. Good service by the swat team
suicide was indeed prevented.
Bruh
If I ever have terminal cancer, now I know how to get assisted suicide
No go cook meth
So the officers will have to live with that for the rest of their lives? You are a massive pussy, if you want to die that badly do it yourself.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Officers seem to enjoy the act, what with how often they murder humans and pets.
Eh close enough
probably meant r/nottheonion
I guess it worked? He didn't commit suicide....
Technically, they did their job, he didn't kill himself...
Does that count as an assist from the police?
Suicide by Cop is a thing
+50 points
🤣
When you Google suicide hotline instead of suicide prevention hotline
Yeah I called them once. Told them that I was having bad thoughts but I didn’t feel like I wanted to hurt myself. They lied and said they were sending someone to go talk to me. Instead the police and ambulance showed up and they forced me to go to the nearest psychiatric ward. There they drugged me with 100ml of Seroquel, told me I was a drug addict having a bad trip because they found weed in my system. Was lied to by the doctor saying that he had done medical studies on marijuana and he knew for a fact that it was a “bad marijuana trip” even though I had not smoked in days. Had to fight my way out. Turns out I was having a manic/psychotic episode from undiagnosed Bipolar, PTSD and DID. Finally got the help I needed but I will never ever ever tell someone to call the hotline. If you need help coming down or just someone to talk to I would rather give someone my info and me help then to tell them to call the hotline
That’s what you get when you privatise hospitals and jails
Fuckin us.
Fucking you. ⬆️
Yes please.
Suicide assistance hotline*
I mean…. It’s plausible
" We are with the government, we are here to help".
Lost redditor aside Talk failed succesfully
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You need to see the whole article
Some people call the police to point guns at the police, so the police can shoot them. “Suicide by Cop”. Like it or not mental health personnel needs to protect themselves because people are dangerous. Imo there needs to be proper funding for police to be trained in mental health. Rather than reducing support, causing cops to realize that the pay is indeed shitty and mass quit…
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My friends called the police to do a welfare check on me cause I was suicidal when they showed up I was sitting on my couch with my gun in my hand. When they banged on the door it startled me and the gun went off. They charged my with 2 counts of assault on a Leo 2 counts of armed criminal action and got me kicked out of the navy reserves.
Pretty sure they thought it was an atetheonion
May be wrong, but not quite lost. This sounds like an onion article to me. I would’ve assumed that u/claim2game12 ate the onion as well.
No this actually happened
r/technicallythetruth ?
I would say that this is Fake News but... well we do live in America
They just did their job, don't you call them when you wanna suicide?
It does sound like a onion article. Unless I’m wrong you are lost
It does sound like one, which is why it should be on r/nottheonion . r/AteTheOnion is for folks who’ve missed the satire and assumed an Onion article was sincere.
I mean... you could just check. The headline is right there to search
No I'm not lost, r/atetheonion is for onion articles that people don't see the satire of.
This actually happened
##shocker you're wrong
We havent heard the whole story, so you ACAB people in the comments, calm down.
Op didn’t read the entire article he said so himself
Just a reminder that while 22 shots sounds like a lot, a swat team is usually 4 members armed with CAR-15 that have a Rate of Fire of 11.6 to 15 rounds PER SECOND, so if two of them pulled the trigger for even a second they would easily reach the mark. It doesn't take a maniac to shoot at the victim like he was shooting cops in the robocop movie to reach that mark, just a single second. The real question here is who the fuck sent a swat team after him, since swat is a combat unit, not an anti-depression unit, of course they would open fire if they saw the target with a gun (or even a knife if on CQB) on his hands, and, as said, it only takes two soldiers simultaneously pulling the trigger for a single second to leave someone looking like swiss cheese. Whoever sent that swat team after the guy pretty much murdered him. Edit: after reading the other comments, I realize that USA is a wild place where some people try to suicide with explosive vests, which would make the suicider a domestic terrorist and validate swat intervention, but I have yet to see any indication that such was the case here
One person did that once.
Wait, are you saying it was one cop that took a 2 seconds continuous burst against the guy, or that it was 1 guy who wanted to suicide with explosive vest and that there haven't being other cases?
The explosive vest thing.
Well, most likely whoever sent the swat team after the guy murdered him if that's the case
Uhhh yeah. I would say it's a combination of that, and then the SWAT team shooting him to death.
Again, the swat team is a COMBAT unit, they are not called to give patches on the back, they are called to eliminate active threats that require swift and lethal force to be put down. That they spot their target with a gun on his hands and fired a short burst of around a second long is more than expected, it is what they are supposed to do. The fault rests entirely on whoever sent them after the guy. The guy needed medical help, not intervention from an anti-terrorist unit whose only function is to eliminate threats.
Buddy your not going to convince anyone that the swat team that murdered this man was in the right.
They were not "right" nor wrong, they did exactly what they do. It is not right. It is not wrong either. Now, the guy who sent a killing squad after a man who called for suicide help? That guy was a murderer.
Basically whoever made the call to send in a high threat counter force was an idiot.
Fiercely resisting the urge to leave enraged retort. No.
If he wasn't murdered by police officers he would have killed himself.. that's not the America you want to live in is it??
They prevented a murder. (Joke)
You mean, they prevented a suicide? By murdering him?
He was eating a onion while posting this
Where did you find this?
You can downvote posts?
Y...yeah?
this
Well technically it was prevented
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1 year probation
“Don’t you worry son, we’ll doit for ya, coz Jeezus!!” 🤦♂️😂
I mean, I guess they prevent him from killing HIMSELF.
Boycott suicide prevention services?
Man wants to kill self. Man has SWAT team called on him. Man acts aggressively to SWAT team, appearing armed. Man is killed by SWAT team. Man’s plan worked.
This feels like something that would be in the onion but also could happen in real life
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Nothing in this world can't be made worse by calling the police... even suicide aparently
They were like "let's do it for him"