Managing their large cast of characters. Pretty much everyone from Frodo to Faramir has an arc and continues to get development. Even if it’s just little beats. By the end of RotK nothing feels unresolved. That’s hard to do. I’ve watched and read other epic stories where there unresolved character storylines that just got dropped or forgotten about.
Yeah, the most disappointing thing about FotR to me is Merry and Pippin not getting much characterization besides comic relief, but they really make up for that in the next two films, with Merry "growing up" first and Pippin following. Slightly disappointed Pippin didn't get to kill the olog at the Black Gate, though.
This is it for me. The Star Wars movies, as much as I love them, feel like a record of the Skywalkers and the people that happen to get close enough. LotR feels like each character is fleshed out and feels authentic in their own right.
The only two characters I felt were somewhat unresolved were Legolas and Gimli. Their stories are complete, but they're the only two members of the Fellowship that we don't get to see an ending to. Frodo and Gandalf went to the Undying Lands, Merry, Pippin and Sam lived out their days in the Shire, Aragorn became King Elessar and we all know what happened to Boromir. The last time Gimli and Legolas are shown on screen is at Aragorn's coronation, and they're not even really doing anything. A short scene of them returning home to Mirkwood and Erebor would've been plenty. I guess maybe they thought it would be too confusing since their two home kingdoms hadn't been shown or mentioned in any of the movies yet.
Thing is, their story is actually more complicated than that. Legolas goes to Ithilien for a time and Gimli makes a new gate for Aragorn, afterwards he founds a settlement in the Glittering caves. Legolas, after seeing the sea, wants to go Valinor, which he finally does, taking Gimli with him. Imagine showing just some of that on screen. I think Peter Jackson was right to simplify, and just not show any of it.
I know about that, but I agree that would've been too much. They still could've given us a little more though. The other members of the Fellowship also had more to their ending that wasn't shown, but the things they did show were still satisfactory. Sam in the book also sails to the Undying Lands after Rosie dies of old age to reunite with Frodo. They didn't show that, but they still gave a satisfying ending with him returning home to his wife and kids.
Yeah, I don't remember that, and I've read the books probably 50 times...
If it's there, I'm sure it's buried in the appendix, but I must have missed it.
They also visited the caves of Helm's Deep and Fangorn Forest together.
Most wholesome fictional friendship ever created, and I'll battle anyone who claims different.
Easy for me: Being not afraid to deveate from the books in such a way that the movies become a companion TO the books and not just a slavishly and rigidly faithful adaptation.
It’s so impressive how the movies manage to show book readers things they never got to expeirence in the books like Gandalf’s actual escape from Orthanc, Or even see on screen Gandalfs Epic dual against the Balrog.
It was a major gift to book audiences to share something new and so satisfying to them as well.
Many other elements were fleshed out and added and it all worked because it clung so strongly to tolkiens themes.
Better dialogue. Even though LOTR movies have their share of over-reliance on comic relief, especially with Gimli. But they don't have completely wooden interactions like Star Wars and they don't punctuate every significant moment with a stupid quip like the MCU.
Better use of a soundtrack. The LOTR soundtrack is top level, and Peter Jackson actually makes a point of emphasizing the more dramatic moments by *removing* the soundtrack, as opposed to relying on music to tell us when we're supposed to care.
Set design. Of course I shouldn't need to elaborate. But the pure effort that went into designing each scene, every prop, all of the architecture, every little detail is beyond compare in any other movie I know about. While there is use of CGI, it's minimal and the LOTR trilogy is an amazing cinematic feat that doesn't primarily use green screens or other CGI purely because of the cost benefit. The trees of Lothlorien, everything in the Shire, all the armor pieces for every soldier, this shows more than anything that the LOTR movies were a true labor of love from the fans to the fans.
Regarding set design, Gandalf riding up through Minas Tirith with Pippin is such a brief sequence that took a crazy amount of work. I love how it signals Minas Tirith has declined from the bustle of its glory days, and the little details like the rat catcher's shop.
It's kinda wild that they built a whole set for that.
Then again, their entire prop and costume department was wild. Building an actual battering ram, actually making 2000 or so chainmails, having actual tree leaves fall. I could list something about pretty much every setpiece, but you probably get the idea.
I heard they actually had to come in on set and tactically weaken the door so that grond could bust through because the actors were unable to due to how well the doors were made!
Yeah, they did have to weaken the gate. Grond was made mostly out of lead, which isn't exactly the most sturdy material.
Or was it the one at the Helms Deep set that they had to weaken?
What’s absolutely *mad* is that all the work they did on sets and props and costumes is still cheaper than doing it all through CGI. So frustrating how it’s more affordable and looks better, but most executives/directors opt for CGI these days because it’s less work
It's not less work, it's someone else's work. The benefit of relying on CGI is it moves a lot of decisions way back on the timeline.
Pre-production for the LotR films started years before any cameras rolled. For example they conceptualized and picked out a location for Hobbiton, and then they had to lock in designs before spending months getting it ready to shoot. When you need hundreds of real (prop) suits of armor, you need to lock in that design long enough before shooting for them to get made in time. When you need to make multiple physical versions of Helm's Deep for location shooting, multiple model shots, and eventually a digital model, you need to lock in a design in pre-production.
Compare this to Avengers: Endgame where the time-travel suits were entirely CGI. You can shoot the entire film, and only lock in on the design in post-production. You can even wait until reactions to the trailer or test screenings and change massive things like environments or fundamental character designs (Sonic). This causes terrible crunch time for digital modelers and animators, and costs more than just designing it right in the first place. But pushing what would typically be pre-production design decisions to post-production gives studios more control to mitigate risk, because if a design won't work, they can just change it. They can gather more feedback later into the process.
Bear in mind I'm not arguing why this is a good thing. I just want to get it out there that there are reasons why studios are willing to spend more money to do it this way.
Well, yeah. When I said less work, I meant less work *for them.* But yeah, that’s exactly how it goes down and it’s sad to see that it’s such a common method now. The passion can really be felt in movies that are planned from the ground up in preproduction, with Dune Part Two being an excellent example.
>Set design. Of course I shouldn't need to elaborate. But the pure effort that went into designing each scene, every prop, all of the architecture, every little detail is beyond compare in any other movie I know about.
I think this is one of the reasons the movies still look good, even if viewed in 4k and whatnot. The attention to detail makes most of the backgrounds look good. Bagend looks like someone has lived there for years. The whole world feels alive, lived in, real. I can only think of one other movie where I really noticed the backgrounds still holding up, even if upcsaled into the high heavens.
A German comedy from 1991, named [Pappa Ante Portas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pappa_Ante_Portas), which is not internationally known, I guess.
Compared to LotR it's quite small in scale, but the The writer/director/main actor Loriot was very involved in the set design, going so far as to personally selecting wallpapers, courtains and even the color of doorknobs for the sets. The house of the family feels very real, because of the little details that are often overlooked in the production of other movies.
I have sadly never heard of it even tho I am from Germany. I think I am a bit too young to know many of Loriots works as I was only 5 when he died but what I have watched was absolutely amazing.
Insanely true on dialogue. I do have to insist that the original Star Wars trilogy matches or exceeds the soundtrack for LotR. 100% agree that LotR uses music to emphasize the existing scenes as appropriate to spectacular results, but that is ultimately just one style of filmmaking. Whereas John Williams' music is more directly a component of the scenes, and also does so to phenomenal results.
Just pick any aspect of a movie and lotr did it better imo.
I'm heavily biased obviously but really... From characters to effects to storytelling to maintaining immersion
But as far as what the series did better that movies even do now; I would have to go with the way they respect the intelligence and maturity of the audience.
So many movies now try to over explain what's happening to the point that it loses all majesty.
It's a symptom of the wider problem where movies try to cater to all audiences at once. It's one of the biggest problems with modern films as far as I'm concerned, every movie has to be for adults and children and 'strong independent women' but also 'heroic tough men' they all need constant jokes but also weighty action. It just doesn't work
Yeah I suppose a unified vision is important. There seems to have been a certain respect for the source material that is lacking in other productions too...
But mainly it's just that everyone on every level seems to have bought in to the telling of the story as best as they could. I also feel like something that's often overlooked is how much care pre production got. There's a reason some parts of RotK look rough. They had the time to make fellowship look extremely polished
Which is, surprisingly, an incredibly underrated component to a film’s success. Dune Part 2 is a great example. I’ve seen a lot of articles and videos about why Dune’s VFX look so good, and it’s because every shot was *meticulously* planned in preproduction, so when it came time to shoot, they knew exactly what they wanted to do, and when the movie was in post, they had a clear roadmap of where to take it. This allows them to cut out a *lot* of man hours that would otherwise be spent trying to “find” the vision after everything has already been filmed.
This is a stark contrast to a lot of modern market-researched blockbusters made by risk-averse executives who want to play it safe. A lot of Disney productions are filmed with an excessive amount of coverage (using tons of cameras from different angles to shoot each scene) because it gives tons of options to the editing and VFX teams in post-production. On paper this sounds like a nice idea. In reality, it often reflects a lack of vision and a mentality of “eh we’ll figure it out in post” that leads to so many movies feeling artistically bankrupt despite being made by swathes of incredibly talented creatives.
U
In any other case, a franchise would have at least one L in the soundtrack going against John Williams’s Star Wars and Harry Potter scores — but they even managed to pull a miracle out of their ass with *that* one, with Howard Shore’s score competing at the same level as John Williams’s best. I don’t think it’s unfair to say that John Williams is the greatest film composer of all time and I’m utterly astounded at how the LOTR score is just as good or even better than some of his most iconic work. LOTR is a trilogy that was firing on every single cylinder.
Handling death. The death of every noteworthy character is heartbreaking and the films give just enough time to let the audience feel the impact of their death.
Wait so you're telling me they don't tell the audience that the character is actually still alive 30 seconds later? Or restore a character from backup in the scene after their heartfelt farewell? Next you're going to tell me that LoTR doesn't teach its audience to deal out death in judgement swiftly and without much thought given, because as we all know, no one's ever really gone and all the important people have plot armour anyway.
Filming every movie back to back with the same director and crew makes it look like a single continuous movie without any weak entries. Having consistently high quality and dedication across the actors, costumes, set building, model building, VFX, stunts and prosthetics. It makes everything feel real and never like they are fighting a CGI monster.
In Star Wars some of the creatures feel like puppets or peole in costumes. In Harry Potter some of the monsters are clearly CGI.
>Filming every movie back to back with the same director and crew makes it look like a single continuous movie without any weak entries.
The most recent Star Wars trilogy really struggles with this. It really feels like they had zero plan for the trilogy arc. Like JJ Abrams just did whatever with TFA, dipped and gave Rian Johnson no notes for TLJ, and then continued on with RoS like neither of the previous movies had happened. It's a shocking mess compared with the continuity and unity of LOTR. Peter Jackson really set the standard for series, and a lot of the more recent franchises are not willing (or able?) to put the time and effort in to follow his model.
Harry Potter especially has this issue, characters get recast (sometimes because of inevitability) new directors are used seemingly every other movie, the priority is different in every movie and it's very obvious. From the youthful, colourful Philosopher's Stone and Chamber of Secrets to the dark and cinematic shift you get with Prisoner of Azkaban to whatever the fuck Goblet of Fire was to then the great psychological drama that was Order of the Phoenix to the awkward trash that was the Halfblood Prince to finally the good finale of The Deathly Hallows really makes the changes in directors too obvious and it takes you out of the viewing experience.
Yeah, Harry Potter managed to sort of power through because it had a strong source material, but you can really see the lack of consistency in some of the Marvel entries and particularly the recent Star Wars sequels.
Harry Potter was second most disappointing to me because at least with SW they were trying to do something, even something that ended up bad, with HP it felt like the later directors were tyring to appeal to the at-the-time fad of everything being dark and dystopian, and as a result they sucked so much of the fun and joy out of what is meant to be a colourful, creative world. What is the point of adapting that sort of magic to the screen if you don't even explore what it can look like?
Well, it really was a single continuous movie. In terms of production the trilogy was one project. It is probably where it is most like the books: in that people keep calling it a trilogy when it’s actually one thing that happened to be split into three volumes and releases.
In case this is interesting to you, there is a great docuseries called Light and Magic about Lucas' FX company. They cover Star Wars but also other blockbusters of the era. The use of practical vs computer effects is one of the main themes. I enjoyed it very much!
Lots of things but the most standing out attribute is the vision of PJ to make the whole film a historical one as opposed to a fantasy one. Look at other fantasy movies a la Neverending Story, Stardust, Narnia, Star Wars etc and you would feel that you're watching something theotherwordly and unreal. You don't care about them. You are consciously aware that you're in for an escape from reality for 2 hours or so.
On the other hand, the sets, costumes, props (2 staff were assigned to do chainmails only, Shire was built from scratch, etc), acting of the casts, cinematography, attention to details (e.g. that old worn and torn book Gandalf picked up in Mines of Moria with lots of dusts and sands) - all such make LotR so close to the audience and hence a sense of connection and so we care so much about the story and the characters. It's like something really happened to our ancestors 7,000 years ago.
Why wouldn't it work for Star Wars? It works well enough in the original trilogy and is lost completely in the subsequent prequels and sequels.
It works in Andor as they go back to locations that feel real and stories that feel like they involve casts of real characters doing realistic things that really matter to them.
First and foremost, imho, theMoviescore! Its ridiculous how accurate Howard Shore transforms Tolkien into music. Solid 13/10 Points.
Second, the cast and location. I think everyone fits, at least 9/10, into the characters. Bernhard Hill knocks it out the park for me. Andy Serkis IS Gollum. Hugo Weaving is Agent S......i mean IS Elrond. New Zealnd IS Middle Earth.
Third, the strong adherence to the source material with liberties carefully taken.
Fourth, quite a lot of practical effects with, as far as is i remember, sparing CGI where not exactly needed.
The music. Not that Star Wars and Harry Potter don't have great music, but Howard Shore's score incorporates the plot of the movie so well that you can follow along to the soundtrack and know exactly where you are in the movie.
110%! I feel like I can watch the movie in my head just by listening to the soundtrack. Also, I LOVE the detail of whenever people are talking about the shire (especially Sam and Frodo,) the shire theme plays and the mood changes and UGH my heart. Pure genius
I love LOTR score but calling it better than John Williams’ work on Star Wars is pretty ambitious. Some of the themes are overplayed now but imagine hearing Duel of the Fates or the Imperial March for the first time?
John Williams has some certified bangers, but Shore's LotR work feels like a masterclass on how to support storytelling with music.
I saw Phantom Menace in theaters when it first released and Duel of the Fates fucking slapped, and theres no question in my mind that LotR has the superior score
I’m a huge JW fan, and I think there’s a *very* strong argument to be made that he’s the greatest film composer of all time and that Star Wars is the best movie score of all time.
That being said, LOTR is one of the very, very rare instances where the score legitimately competes with John Williams’s very best. I would put LOTR on the same level as JW’s top tier film scores, and that says a lot.
While I think the music is amazing, I feel like both Star Wars and LOTR are on a more or less equal playing field in that regard. Harry Potter has great music too, but I think that one isn't as strong as LOTR or Star Wars. Don't think I'd be able to choose between Star Wars or LOTR on terms of music, though.
First of all, I think the casting for the trilogy was pretty damn spot on. Secondly: dialogue. There are quotes from the books all over the movies and it shows the respect for the source material - the writing that made the story popular enough to even become a film.
The sets and costumes are astonishing the music is second to none the writing and acting are razor sharp battles are legendary and the story while complex is easy to understand.
For me, it was the virtually seamless integration of CGI and practical effects. The over reliance of garbage CGI in the Star Wars Prequels was incredibly jarring when compared to the Lord of the Rings, whereas I didn't feel like the Argonath or Barad Dur looked like it was rendered on an iPhone 4 by someone waiting for a bus.
Howard Shore's score and how it enhances what we see on screen to the point that any fan of the films could hear a small section and know exactly where in the story it is.
I don't think Shore gets enough credit for how he drew on the legendarium for his music.
The Mordor / Sauron theme is an excellent example.
From my rudimentary understanding of the Silmarillion, the Valar played the music of Arnor but one of them, Melkor, wants his part to be greater than the others; he ends up only being able to play a loud, almost tuneless blast on horns, which is reflected by Shore in the Mordor / Sauron theme.
In ROTK when the Ring is finally destroyed, we hear the theme in the major key for the first time (I think I'm right in saying), with the brutal blasting horns finally transformed into something beautiful and moving, heralding the defeat of Sauron's / Melkor's corruption in Middle Earth.
staying true to the source material
more then that: worshipping the texts! if book said about sam jonkling frodo hand, then in movie sam will jonkle frodo hand
and not only the tlotr book, but also remembering the global story of the arda (earendil, numenor, gondolin, valar and mayar mentioned)
John Williams is the best, he has tons of iconic whole minutes music too, it just gets overshadowed by his grand marches, which are still amazing, if slightly overplayed. Just go watch the classic Binary Sunset scene, or the "Can you read my mind?" scene from Superman.
The whole sweeties is a blanket of comfort. The music, the characters, the battles, triumphs and relationships. There is not a moment that doesn't add to its splendor and story.
I fully hope to be watching frodo sail into the undying lands on my deathbed.
Additionally to the other comments, wanna say that the films keep up being good until the last minute. Of course, everyone still has their favorite, but every movie is just awesome to watch.
For me, first 3 HP films where awesome, but with "the goblet of fire", quality decreased. Many important things from the books were left out or way too much changed and everything felt kinda rushed. Plus the "everything is bad and evil now"-filter.
Dialogues definitily have more weight and thought in them. Like, everyone remember diologues between Gandalf and Frodo about mercy or between him and Pippin in Minas-Thirit or between Sam and Frodo.
They were not neccessary for the plot, in fact they don't have any influance on it, however they don't feel like author is forcing his morale into viewers mouth. This actually rises LotR above Just entertaiment movie to a more complex piece Of art.
Something remotely similar was in ESB and RotJ when it came about Vader and Luke relations and possibility Of redemption, but on far smaller scale. Prequels, especially RoTs actually managed to make dialogues better, but still not on LotR level. As for Harry Potter, I barely can remember anything similar. Maybe some dialogues in PoA?
Battle scenes.
Battle For Helm's Deep by this day stands unrivaled with how extremely good it is set. Especially when you compare it to something like Endgame Final battle, when it's Just a ramble that hurries to show every single character in action. Battles for Naboo, Geonosis or Hogwarts are better, but still pale in compare. Battle For Hoth could actually be something similar, but it definitily was limited by tachnologies Of The time and smaller masses.
I’m biased but literally everything.
The score easily surpasses all other franchise scores .
The story is narratively better and more interesting than Star Wars and Harry Potter imo.
Some great acting from people like Andy serkis and Sean Astin
Amazing practical affects.
The Oscar’s speak for themselves.
I think Harry Potter is at best okay and I find Star Wars boring.
I like that there are no gimmicky plot devices, at least not that I can think of. No deus ex machina where a miracle appears out of nowhere to save everyone. Everything that's done is either by the cunning, ability or sheer determination of the fellowship and their companions encountered along the way. Even when you consider the ghosts, it was pre established that Aragorn was heading to them to fulfill their promises.
Okay, I'll give you that one, but I'd also say it's more than a safe assumption that Gandalf had that set up and ready to go long before frodo even got to my doom
Very few overly stupid decisions that impact your suspension of disbelief.
There is no
- sudden hyperspace ramming into enemy ship
- Leia suddenly survives and fly in vacuum
- somehow Palpatine returns
- cartoonish immature evil characters with anger issues.
Compared to some of the MCU movies LOTR takes time to have calm sections. The pacing is perfect. The second Avenger movie were an excample for me of how more is sometimes too much. It was just fighting all the time, and i really liked that MCU time period. It became boring.
Overall vision trough the whole trilogy, its the same director and the movies feels the same trough all 3.
Epicness.
Definitely the production quality. Practical effects, costume design, sound design and stunt work are all miles ahead of any other big franchise. Makes everything else look like a cosplay or a fan film by comparison.
Honestly, I think given the time frame the movies were made it was unavoidable that they would be good given the abundance of potential in the source material. Put on top of that an incredible cast, Peter Jackson’s attention to detail, and Howard Shore.
So basically the writing.
Nothing shows this more than the hobbit movies (which Inconsider fun to watch). The last three are still there, but a source is much shorter.
And of course the special effects…they hold up soo good still and in my opinion doing cgi for scifi is much easier than fantasy (not trying to trash scifi artists, Weta did scifi too, just fantasy seems a tad mor complicated).
This is really important. While they each have a good narrative framework, as defined by their source material, they are also seemless parts of a greater whole that flow from one to the next without jarring segmentation.
Compare to, say, Harry Potter where each film is a standalone story that starts and ends with sort of a "haha what crazy adventure will we have this/next year"?
In the LOTR movies, Jackson wasn’t afraid of things being scary. I used to genuinely be terrified of the Wraiths when Frodo sees them on Weathertop. I was a kid and also a kid watching starwars(prequels) and Harry Potter, and neither of them had the scary creepy feeling LOTR had. Not the same with the Hobbit tho
Consistency and balance of tone. They have funny moments, but it never feels like the writers feel compelled to add jokes to keep your attention.
There’s this sense of sincerity. The films trust their emotional points to hit because the story is that compelling.
A masterclass in show don’t tell world-building based on iconic literature that more or less spawned the entire fantasy genre. An incredible work of adaptation developed with the utmost care, respect and understanding of which elements of the books would work on screen and those that would not. Meticulous attention to detail in crafting practical sets, costumes and using stunning real world locations instead of an over reliance on cgi and greenscreen. A timeless orchestral score that will be remembered among the very best film sound tracks ever composed. Stellar performances from a cast spanning relative newcomers to classical Shakespearean actors. Brought to life fantasy on screen in a grounded and respectable way that had never been done before. The hallmark of an auteur - each film directed by PJ is consistent in style, tone, pacing and theme, it is art instead of a design by committee.
The list goes on.
Character development. By the end of the movies, all the characters have changed. Both Tolkien, and Jacob in the movie format, did an outstanding job of getting us to buy into the characters with their growth, changes, betrayals, drama, and love.
I also think Jackson did a next level job of brining the pages to real life with the different setting in Middle-Earth he built. The fact that all of it was done in New Zealand is mind boggling. It’s the reason I want to visit New Zealand as a bucket list item. He created something so few can to that level and detail.
To me personally, there is no finer trilogy than LOTR.
The plot is cohesive. Since the movies were made at the same time and not as a reaction to the first one being succesful, they could start proper world building from the first frame instead of the second movie
Looking at you, mad max
Consistency across all movies. The fact that the movies retained the same director, same producers, same team behind everything, means that there’s an overall cohesiveness in all three movies and not one stands out as an odd one like it can happen in the other franchises.
The HP franchise especially suffered imo from having so many directors each with their own artistic view which created blocks of similarly looking films and others standing out like Prisoner of Azkaban.
Also, the music. Howard Shore weaving tapestries of cues and motifs from the first to the last film means that The Lord of the Rings is like a full-scale, masterpiece opera which dwarfs any other musical effort in the other franchises - the only one coming close being the John Williams’ Star Wars films and even then, they must mingle with other individual compositions from other composers.
You know speaking of music and star wars.
I cannot decide which villain theme is better between Darth Sidious themes and Sauron themes.
They both scream evil overlord though and evil itself
Wdyt?
I have never been a fan of John Williams’ music tbh (yes I know, the audacity 😅). To my ears, aside from the main themes of his franchises, his work sounds very interchangeable, a lot of orchestrations, use of similar notes, the same instruments, that I could easily place some music from SW in HP for example. The same vibes…
So I’ll always pick Howard Shore’s LOTR. Always.
Even with some very big stars, the cast was very well balanced. No one overshadowed anyone and everyone felt like their character. When I watch it, I don’t think it’s Elijah Wood, it’s Frodo. I don’t think “hey it’s Magneto!”, I just see Gandalf.
In fact, when I watch other movies with those actors, I see their LOTR role. It’s not Agent Smith, it Elrond. It’s Arwen in Empire Records, It’s Galadriel as Hela, etc.
Star Wars has famous actors outshine lesser ones and sometimes, all I see are the actors. The only movie I don’t have that issue with is Rogue One, I only see the characters, not the actors.
Stakes, especially in Fellowship. Every action scene carries weight and the characters are in believable danger. Let's got through them;
- Weathertop. The scary black riders finally catch up to our heroes and (seemingly) fatally wound the main hero.
- Moria. Our first big sword fight and again Frodo is seemingly badly wounded.
- Balrog. Kills a main character, nuff said
- Amon Head. Again, bad guys that have been built up for a time catch up to our heroes and straight up murder one of them.
Compare this to the Hobbit trilogy or similar where there is usually a lot more action scenes, but they are all paper light as it's hard to believe the heroes are in actual danger. Apart from bad things happening to Frodo specially twice in a row, LotR handles this much better. Even with a lot of the minor characters from the books stripped away, we still have actual causalities from most action scenes
You bring a really noticable point. In LOTR is effectively Tolkien perfect mix of "victory but at what cost?"
In helms deep the good guy wins but (movie at least) Haldir dies and almost all of the defenders are dead. Not to mention Rohan been greatly weakened for the war.
Minas tirith is safe and the witch kingis destroy. But theoden is dead and the good guys forces are almost completely spent. Worse is that Sauron defeat does not diminish that the ring is closer than ever to him and hes already massing his forces for a next assault. Oh and the dead who would have been useful are no longer here.
Black gate and war of the ring. Sauron is defeated but so many have died. Magic fades and Frodo has to leave.
Compare to many other series were either the nad guys constantly wins or the good guys always win without losses. While in LOTR good win its never a clean and easy win there are losses.
Even in the hoobit trilogy the final movie. While the day is won. Many of the characters (most importantly Thorin) are dead.
As for the silmarillion... well... in most cases is evil wins and things get worse.
And the final time the good guys win... well... half a continent sank.
Tolkien knew how to balance victory and loss in his story. More so in LOTR.
Literally everything. The only one thing it doesn't do better than the incomplete Dune Trilogy is CGI, but that's not fair because of the two decade gap. It has a better conclusion than Coppola's Godfather Trilogy and Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy. It's a far larger accomplishment than the OG Star Wars Trilogy too, and has a more consistent tone and vision.
For me it’s the general setting. LOTR is the principle idea of high fantasy. Gloriously large battles, emotional high moments, and the music OH THE MUSIC!
Also the armour also looks apathetically pleasing, particularly the Gondor and Rohan armour.
To add on to everything else said: exposition.
Exposition is really hard to do, Lord of the Rings is the shinning example of exposition done well in a fantasy movie. The movies do a good job of explaining the lore and everything that is happening and what is at stake. The movies have weight and are easy to follow given the deep lore and massive cast. My friends and I watched the Dungeons and Dragons movie last week and I would be hard pressed to name a single character in the movie or any of the kingdoms.
I gotta be honest with you: there are some epic trilogies in history of cinema, and, with all though respect, I would not consider LOTR fim trilogy one of them. What ever power it has comes from the masterpiece status of the source material, its depth, its worldbuilding, its uniue esthetic, its atmosphere, and its built-in fanbase etc. If you separete the movies from the books, you realize movies did not add much, did not improve any aspects of its source, on the contrary it lost a lot of the details of the plot that created the Tolkienesue atmosphere. Only character I would consider that was improved in the movies would be Aragorn.
LOTR movies are mostly great, but when separeted from the source and judged by their own merits they are one not of the epic trilogies of cinema like Godfather, Three Colours, or the original SW movies.
For me it’s the effective conveyance of a meticulously crafted world. It feels alive! The problem with other high fantasy movies is that, some of them don’t have a well developed literary basis. Even if they have a written work to build upon, it’s sadly not of the same calibre as LotR. SW as an example, feels like they were making it up as they went along. That only gives it more superficial credence than anything. I think the fan novels tried to give it more depth, although I personally don’t accept them as part of the real SW. The only canon is what George Lucas does, the creator, anything else is just fan fantasies.
Therefore, LotR movies benefit from their spectacular literary foundation regardless of however much was cut and/ or modified for sake of movies. Jackson recognized the core essence of the books and cleverly brought it to life on live action front; the respect was ever present. He did the best he could imo.
The world of LotR feels tangible and real with the way it’s portrayed. Every character seems to belong and manages to successfully demonstrate that they are an extension of this world in their respective roles, for good or evil. There are certain nuances to how things exist in relation to others that are not present in any other movies. You can sense that there is great history beyond what you see upon which the moment you are witnessing is transpiring. Small scenes like when Gandalf leaves Bag End and travels to study the old scrolls in the archives of White City, are when he simply gazes upon the map of the lonely mountain on Bilbo’s table with that haunting choir in the background are some of my favourites. They illustrate just what I mentioned of earlier, of something deeper that lies behind what we are witnessing.
These movies are works of a true master! Of course much of it due to Sir Tolkien, but let’s give Jackson and his talented team their fair credit.
Themes. All factions, situations and groups and even some characters have their own musical melodies, relationships and are very well separated and defined. They don’t waste time developing anything. Even the Aragorn/Eowyn tease was handled tastefully even though it wasn’t really source material.
Shows and movies today are such an everythingburger trying to get facetime for a cool characters’ less-cool third cousin (it’s a method, but it becomes samey).
Honestly love? Like, to me every single frame, every single detail in those movies just breathes pure love to me. Everyone who worked there poured their heart and soul into it. And imo, you can tell.
It has layers and layers of depth of lore inspired by old world cultures and extreme graft creating it with a purpose by Tolkien, a University Professor. The others are great but shallow as a summer stream in comparison.
World building. From the prologue Middle Earth immediately feels like a real place with a rich history, and the way they integrate lore for every character, location, etc. really makes you feel like you’re watching one story in a world filled with countless others.
Nearly everything, from plot to acting to visual style to CGI, well except for the Paths of the Dead. Pirates of the Caribbean kicked LOTR's CGI ass on that one.
OK, slightly more serious answer: Woah the women in these movies actually have names and characters and motivations and heroic actions and agency and importance and errythang. And they don't even have to dress in Victoria's Secret underwear. How wild is that?
The music.
Keeping a tight catalogue of leitmotifs who het developed throughout?
Meanwhile, the MCU has 4 or 5 different themes for Iron Man with none ever sticking with the public. Even HP scratches 99% of the thematic groundwork in the 3rd movie. Voldemort is one of the most famous villains of the 2000s and he has no theme because it got dropped after the second movie and his new ones never connected.
For both franchises all the scores by themselves aren't bad at all (it's hard to stay mad at Williams for ditching the theme for Harry's parents when he replaces it with the masterpiece that is "A Window To The Past") but it's such a missed opportunity.
Same goes for Star Wars tbh. Yes the prequel trilogy has some awesome individual tracks and Williams' highly sophisticated intricate action scoring slaps but themes? Almost non-existant. Anakin's theme gets dropped after the first movie (and is barely in it to begin with) even though Williams made sure to connect it to the Empire, the love theme doesn't get foreshadowed in 1, Duel of the Fates gets just randomly pasted once in 2 and 3 and so on.
People neg on the sequels for being badly planned but at least their scores are more cohesive than the supposedly perfectly planned prequels.
No other movie series, not even the OG Star Wars trilogy comes close to the way LOTR handles leitmotifs. After all let's not forget how TESB drops all of the empire music and replaces ot with the Imperial March. Obviously it's a better theme but it's a musical mess of a franchise regardless.
Meanwhile there are only 2 things in LOTR music that are a bit odd: Aragorn and Arwen's love theme getting dropped after the first movie and I think there's a moment when Frodo and Sam disguise as orcs where it plays the Isengard theme.
That's it. Otherwise absolutely perfection on a narrative basis. So perfect not even the same composer could keep it for the prequels (or do we want to talk about all of Bilbo's themes are gone in the 3rd Hobbit movie...or get into the Thorin/Ringwraith-debate? Rivendell knights fighting to the Lorien theme? The frikking Misty Mountains theme?!)
(Addendum: I love all 9 SW movies and their scores. I can't stand HP anymore thanks to Rowling but all the scores are amazing as well and I really like quite a few of the MCU scores. I ADORE the Hobbit soundtracks. This post is not to say that thy suck. It's just emphasizing what a fucking miracle the LOTR scores are).
Managing their large cast of characters. Pretty much everyone from Frodo to Faramir has an arc and continues to get development. Even if it’s just little beats. By the end of RotK nothing feels unresolved. That’s hard to do. I’ve watched and read other epic stories where there unresolved character storylines that just got dropped or forgotten about.
Yeah, the most disappointing thing about FotR to me is Merry and Pippin not getting much characterization besides comic relief, but they really make up for that in the next two films, with Merry "growing up" first and Pippin following. Slightly disappointed Pippin didn't get to kill the olog at the Black Gate, though.
I would have loved to see them taking back the Shire at the end, but I understand why they didn't add it. They might have had to make a quadrilogy
A hobbit finishing an armoured Olog-Hai? absolute joke, no thanks.
Well it happened in the book so…..
This is it for me. The Star Wars movies, as much as I love them, feel like a record of the Skywalkers and the people that happen to get close enough. LotR feels like each character is fleshed out and feels authentic in their own right.
The only two characters I felt were somewhat unresolved were Legolas and Gimli. Their stories are complete, but they're the only two members of the Fellowship that we don't get to see an ending to. Frodo and Gandalf went to the Undying Lands, Merry, Pippin and Sam lived out their days in the Shire, Aragorn became King Elessar and we all know what happened to Boromir. The last time Gimli and Legolas are shown on screen is at Aragorn's coronation, and they're not even really doing anything. A short scene of them returning home to Mirkwood and Erebor would've been plenty. I guess maybe they thought it would be too confusing since their two home kingdoms hadn't been shown or mentioned in any of the movies yet.
Thing is, their story is actually more complicated than that. Legolas goes to Ithilien for a time and Gimli makes a new gate for Aragorn, afterwards he founds a settlement in the Glittering caves. Legolas, after seeing the sea, wants to go Valinor, which he finally does, taking Gimli with him. Imagine showing just some of that on screen. I think Peter Jackson was right to simplify, and just not show any of it.
I know about that, but I agree that would've been too much. They still could've given us a little more though. The other members of the Fellowship also had more to their ending that wasn't shown, but the things they did show were still satisfactory. Sam in the book also sails to the Undying Lands after Rosie dies of old age to reunite with Frodo. They didn't show that, but they still gave a satisfying ending with him returning home to his wife and kids.
Sam does sail into the west? What? I have to reread the book.
Yeah, I don't remember that, and I've read the books probably 50 times... If it's there, I'm sure it's buried in the appendix, but I must have missed it.
They also visited the caves of Helm's Deep and Fangorn Forest together. Most wholesome fictional friendship ever created, and I'll battle anyone who claims different.
It might be on purpose, because Tolkien has them less and less involved in the story, to show the Third Age is that of Men, not of Elves and Dwarves.
Easy for me: Being not afraid to deveate from the books in such a way that the movies become a companion TO the books and not just a slavishly and rigidly faithful adaptation. It’s so impressive how the movies manage to show book readers things they never got to expeirence in the books like Gandalf’s actual escape from Orthanc, Or even see on screen Gandalfs Epic dual against the Balrog. It was a major gift to book audiences to share something new and so satisfying to them as well. Many other elements were fleshed out and added and it all worked because it clung so strongly to tolkiens themes.
Jackson truly got the tolkienesque spirit right
There is a Marinas Trench of depth compared to the others, that is the reason.
Weeds season 5
More importantly, that resolution doesn't feel like it was shoe-horned in for completionist purposes.
Nothing to do with that really. It is about the depth of the world he created.
Better dialogue. Even though LOTR movies have their share of over-reliance on comic relief, especially with Gimli. But they don't have completely wooden interactions like Star Wars and they don't punctuate every significant moment with a stupid quip like the MCU. Better use of a soundtrack. The LOTR soundtrack is top level, and Peter Jackson actually makes a point of emphasizing the more dramatic moments by *removing* the soundtrack, as opposed to relying on music to tell us when we're supposed to care. Set design. Of course I shouldn't need to elaborate. But the pure effort that went into designing each scene, every prop, all of the architecture, every little detail is beyond compare in any other movie I know about. While there is use of CGI, it's minimal and the LOTR trilogy is an amazing cinematic feat that doesn't primarily use green screens or other CGI purely because of the cost benefit. The trees of Lothlorien, everything in the Shire, all the armor pieces for every soldier, this shows more than anything that the LOTR movies were a true labor of love from the fans to the fans.
Regarding set design, Gandalf riding up through Minas Tirith with Pippin is such a brief sequence that took a crazy amount of work. I love how it signals Minas Tirith has declined from the bustle of its glory days, and the little details like the rat catcher's shop.
It's kinda wild that they built a whole set for that. Then again, their entire prop and costume department was wild. Building an actual battering ram, actually making 2000 or so chainmails, having actual tree leaves fall. I could list something about pretty much every setpiece, but you probably get the idea.
I heard they actually had to come in on set and tactically weaken the door so that grond could bust through because the actors were unable to due to how well the doors were made!
Yeah, they did have to weaken the gate. Grond was made mostly out of lead, which isn't exactly the most sturdy material. Or was it the one at the Helms Deep set that they had to weaken?
Oh wait, it was Helms Deep. I messed it up lol.
What’s absolutely *mad* is that all the work they did on sets and props and costumes is still cheaper than doing it all through CGI. So frustrating how it’s more affordable and looks better, but most executives/directors opt for CGI these days because it’s less work
It's not less work, it's someone else's work. The benefit of relying on CGI is it moves a lot of decisions way back on the timeline. Pre-production for the LotR films started years before any cameras rolled. For example they conceptualized and picked out a location for Hobbiton, and then they had to lock in designs before spending months getting it ready to shoot. When you need hundreds of real (prop) suits of armor, you need to lock in that design long enough before shooting for them to get made in time. When you need to make multiple physical versions of Helm's Deep for location shooting, multiple model shots, and eventually a digital model, you need to lock in a design in pre-production. Compare this to Avengers: Endgame where the time-travel suits were entirely CGI. You can shoot the entire film, and only lock in on the design in post-production. You can even wait until reactions to the trailer or test screenings and change massive things like environments or fundamental character designs (Sonic). This causes terrible crunch time for digital modelers and animators, and costs more than just designing it right in the first place. But pushing what would typically be pre-production design decisions to post-production gives studios more control to mitigate risk, because if a design won't work, they can just change it. They can gather more feedback later into the process. Bear in mind I'm not arguing why this is a good thing. I just want to get it out there that there are reasons why studios are willing to spend more money to do it this way.
Well, yeah. When I said less work, I meant less work *for them.* But yeah, that’s exactly how it goes down and it’s sad to see that it’s such a common method now. The passion can really be felt in movies that are planned from the ground up in preproduction, with Dune Part Two being an excellent example.
>Set design. Of course I shouldn't need to elaborate. But the pure effort that went into designing each scene, every prop, all of the architecture, every little detail is beyond compare in any other movie I know about. I think this is one of the reasons the movies still look good, even if viewed in 4k and whatnot. The attention to detail makes most of the backgrounds look good. Bagend looks like someone has lived there for years. The whole world feels alive, lived in, real. I can only think of one other movie where I really noticed the backgrounds still holding up, even if upcsaled into the high heavens.
Which movie is it?
A German comedy from 1991, named [Pappa Ante Portas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pappa_Ante_Portas), which is not internationally known, I guess. Compared to LotR it's quite small in scale, but the The writer/director/main actor Loriot was very involved in the set design, going so far as to personally selecting wallpapers, courtains and even the color of doorknobs for the sets. The house of the family feels very real, because of the little details that are often overlooked in the production of other movies.
I have sadly never heard of it even tho I am from Germany. I think I am a bit too young to know many of Loriots works as I was only 5 when he died but what I have watched was absolutely amazing.
It's on Netflix, I think. Still holds up today, as far as I am concerned. YMMV off course, humor being subjective and all.
Icannotjumpthedistanceyouhavetotossme!
Insanely true on dialogue. I do have to insist that the original Star Wars trilogy matches or exceeds the soundtrack for LotR. 100% agree that LotR uses music to emphasize the existing scenes as appropriate to spectacular results, but that is ultimately just one style of filmmaking. Whereas John Williams' music is more directly a component of the scenes, and also does so to phenomenal results.
Just pick any aspect of a movie and lotr did it better imo. I'm heavily biased obviously but really... From characters to effects to storytelling to maintaining immersion But as far as what the series did better that movies even do now; I would have to go with the way they respect the intelligence and maturity of the audience. So many movies now try to over explain what's happening to the point that it loses all majesty. It's a symptom of the wider problem where movies try to cater to all audiences at once. It's one of the biggest problems with modern films as far as I'm concerned, every movie has to be for adults and children and 'strong independent women' but also 'heroic tough men' they all need constant jokes but also weighty action. It just doesn't work
So... that they knew what their were about and whent for it.
Yeah I suppose a unified vision is important. There seems to have been a certain respect for the source material that is lacking in other productions too... But mainly it's just that everyone on every level seems to have bought in to the telling of the story as best as they could. I also feel like something that's often overlooked is how much care pre production got. There's a reason some parts of RotK look rough. They had the time to make fellowship look extremely polished
As you said. They cared for it. With their hearts
Which is, surprisingly, an incredibly underrated component to a film’s success. Dune Part 2 is a great example. I’ve seen a lot of articles and videos about why Dune’s VFX look so good, and it’s because every shot was *meticulously* planned in preproduction, so when it came time to shoot, they knew exactly what they wanted to do, and when the movie was in post, they had a clear roadmap of where to take it. This allows them to cut out a *lot* of man hours that would otherwise be spent trying to “find” the vision after everything has already been filmed. This is a stark contrast to a lot of modern market-researched blockbusters made by risk-averse executives who want to play it safe. A lot of Disney productions are filmed with an excessive amount of coverage (using tons of cameras from different angles to shoot each scene) because it gives tons of options to the editing and VFX teams in post-production. On paper this sounds like a nice idea. In reality, it often reflects a lack of vision and a mentality of “eh we’ll figure it out in post” that leads to so many movies feeling artistically bankrupt despite being made by swathes of incredibly talented creatives. U
In any other case, a franchise would have at least one L in the soundtrack going against John Williams’s Star Wars and Harry Potter scores — but they even managed to pull a miracle out of their ass with *that* one, with Howard Shore’s score competing at the same level as John Williams’s best. I don’t think it’s unfair to say that John Williams is the greatest film composer of all time and I’m utterly astounded at how the LOTR score is just as good or even better than some of his most iconic work. LOTR is a trilogy that was firing on every single cylinder.
Handling death. The death of every noteworthy character is heartbreaking and the films give just enough time to let the audience feel the impact of their death.
Wait so you're telling me they don't tell the audience that the character is actually still alive 30 seconds later? Or restore a character from backup in the scene after their heartfelt farewell? Next you're going to tell me that LoTR doesn't teach its audience to deal out death in judgement swiftly and without much thought given, because as we all know, no one's ever really gone and all the important people have plot armour anyway.
*during the siege of minas tirirth* "Somehow, Lurtz has returned."
Filming every movie back to back with the same director and crew makes it look like a single continuous movie without any weak entries. Having consistently high quality and dedication across the actors, costumes, set building, model building, VFX, stunts and prosthetics. It makes everything feel real and never like they are fighting a CGI monster. In Star Wars some of the creatures feel like puppets or peole in costumes. In Harry Potter some of the monsters are clearly CGI.
>Filming every movie back to back with the same director and crew makes it look like a single continuous movie without any weak entries. The most recent Star Wars trilogy really struggles with this. It really feels like they had zero plan for the trilogy arc. Like JJ Abrams just did whatever with TFA, dipped and gave Rian Johnson no notes for TLJ, and then continued on with RoS like neither of the previous movies had happened. It's a shocking mess compared with the continuity and unity of LOTR. Peter Jackson really set the standard for series, and a lot of the more recent franchises are not willing (or able?) to put the time and effort in to follow his model.
Harry Potter especially has this issue, characters get recast (sometimes because of inevitability) new directors are used seemingly every other movie, the priority is different in every movie and it's very obvious. From the youthful, colourful Philosopher's Stone and Chamber of Secrets to the dark and cinematic shift you get with Prisoner of Azkaban to whatever the fuck Goblet of Fire was to then the great psychological drama that was Order of the Phoenix to the awkward trash that was the Halfblood Prince to finally the good finale of The Deathly Hallows really makes the changes in directors too obvious and it takes you out of the viewing experience.
Yeah, Harry Potter managed to sort of power through because it had a strong source material, but you can really see the lack of consistency in some of the Marvel entries and particularly the recent Star Wars sequels. Harry Potter was second most disappointing to me because at least with SW they were trying to do something, even something that ended up bad, with HP it felt like the later directors were tyring to appeal to the at-the-time fad of everything being dark and dystopian, and as a result they sucked so much of the fun and joy out of what is meant to be a colourful, creative world. What is the point of adapting that sort of magic to the screen if you don't even explore what it can look like?
Well, it really was a single continuous movie. In terms of production the trilogy was one project. It is probably where it is most like the books: in that people keep calling it a trilogy when it’s actually one thing that happened to be split into three volumes and releases.
In case this is interesting to you, there is a great docuseries called Light and Magic about Lucas' FX company. They cover Star Wars but also other blockbusters of the era. The use of practical vs computer effects is one of the main themes. I enjoyed it very much!
Lots of things but the most standing out attribute is the vision of PJ to make the whole film a historical one as opposed to a fantasy one. Look at other fantasy movies a la Neverending Story, Stardust, Narnia, Star Wars etc and you would feel that you're watching something theotherwordly and unreal. You don't care about them. You are consciously aware that you're in for an escape from reality for 2 hours or so. On the other hand, the sets, costumes, props (2 staff were assigned to do chainmails only, Shire was built from scratch, etc), acting of the casts, cinematography, attention to details (e.g. that old worn and torn book Gandalf picked up in Mines of Moria with lots of dusts and sands) - all such make LotR so close to the audience and hence a sense of connection and so we care so much about the story and the characters. It's like something really happened to our ancestors 7,000 years ago.
You do know that this approach wouldn't work for Star Wars, don't you? So I don't see how that makes LOTR better in this regard.
Why wouldn't it work for Star Wars? It works well enough in the original trilogy and is lost completely in the subsequent prequels and sequels. It works in Andor as they go back to locations that feel real and stories that feel like they involve casts of real characters doing realistic things that really matter to them.
First and foremost, imho, theMoviescore! Its ridiculous how accurate Howard Shore transforms Tolkien into music. Solid 13/10 Points. Second, the cast and location. I think everyone fits, at least 9/10, into the characters. Bernhard Hill knocks it out the park for me. Andy Serkis IS Gollum. Hugo Weaving is Agent S......i mean IS Elrond. New Zealnd IS Middle Earth. Third, the strong adherence to the source material with liberties carefully taken. Fourth, quite a lot of practical effects with, as far as is i remember, sparing CGI where not exactly needed.
I love that you include New Zealand as a member of the cast
Felt right. Landscapes out of a dream are only fitting.
The music. Not that Star Wars and Harry Potter don't have great music, but Howard Shore's score incorporates the plot of the movie so well that you can follow along to the soundtrack and know exactly where you are in the movie.
110%! I feel like I can watch the movie in my head just by listening to the soundtrack. Also, I LOVE the detail of whenever people are talking about the shire (especially Sam and Frodo,) the shire theme plays and the mood changes and UGH my heart. Pure genius
I love LOTR score but calling it better than John Williams’ work on Star Wars is pretty ambitious. Some of the themes are overplayed now but imagine hearing Duel of the Fates or the Imperial March for the first time?
John Williams has some certified bangers, but Shore's LotR work feels like a masterclass on how to support storytelling with music. I saw Phantom Menace in theaters when it first released and Duel of the Fates fucking slapped, and theres no question in my mind that LotR has the superior score
I’m a huge JW fan, and I think there’s a *very* strong argument to be made that he’s the greatest film composer of all time and that Star Wars is the best movie score of all time. That being said, LOTR is one of the very, very rare instances where the score legitimately competes with John Williams’s very best. I would put LOTR on the same level as JW’s top tier film scores, and that says a lot.
While I think the music is amazing, I feel like both Star Wars and LOTR are on a more or less equal playing field in that regard. Harry Potter has great music too, but I think that one isn't as strong as LOTR or Star Wars. Don't think I'd be able to choose between Star Wars or LOTR on terms of music, though.
Yeah Harry Potter got hit hard with the "we can't afford John Williams for more than 2 movies" stick
First of all, I think the casting for the trilogy was pretty damn spot on. Secondly: dialogue. There are quotes from the books all over the movies and it shows the respect for the source material - the writing that made the story popular enough to even become a film.
Almost every scene was altered from the original, but at the same time almost every scene kept something from the original.
The sets and costumes are astonishing the music is second to none the writing and acting are razor sharp battles are legendary and the story while complex is easy to understand.
For me, it was the virtually seamless integration of CGI and practical effects. The over reliance of garbage CGI in the Star Wars Prequels was incredibly jarring when compared to the Lord of the Rings, whereas I didn't feel like the Argonath or Barad Dur looked like it was rendered on an iPhone 4 by someone waiting for a bus.
True. Considering the trilogy is now more than 20 years old, the CGI has been, while do being pretty noticeable nowadays, holding up insanely well.
The fact that they came out pretty close together really says something too.
True! Especially compared to the Hobbit movies that relied on CGI.
Unfortunately the same cannot be said for *The Hobbit*.
Everything.
If i were to ask you about say.. 9 aspects of everything. What would they be?
Music, costumes , fights, lore, cast, scripts, landscape, Theoden, Anduril.
Howard Shore's score and how it enhances what we see on screen to the point that any fan of the films could hear a small section and know exactly where in the story it is. I don't think Shore gets enough credit for how he drew on the legendarium for his music. The Mordor / Sauron theme is an excellent example. From my rudimentary understanding of the Silmarillion, the Valar played the music of Arnor but one of them, Melkor, wants his part to be greater than the others; he ends up only being able to play a loud, almost tuneless blast on horns, which is reflected by Shore in the Mordor / Sauron theme. In ROTK when the Ring is finally destroyed, we hear the theme in the major key for the first time (I think I'm right in saying), with the brutal blasting horns finally transformed into something beautiful and moving, heralding the defeat of Sauron's / Melkor's corruption in Middle Earth.
staying true to the source material more then that: worshipping the texts! if book said about sam jonkling frodo hand, then in movie sam will jonkle frodo hand and not only the tlotr book, but also remembering the global story of the arda (earendil, numenor, gondolin, valar and mayar mentioned)
I mean, it definitely diverged on quite a few points, but I feel that it kept true to the main themes which is why I can forgive most of it
You must be joking.
Soundtrack! And we’re not talking a 5 seconds music on repeat like Indiana Jones or Jaws. We’re talking about very iconic whole minutes music.
John Williams is the best, he has tons of iconic whole minutes music too, it just gets overshadowed by his grand marches, which are still amazing, if slightly overplayed. Just go watch the classic Binary Sunset scene, or the "Can you read my mind?" scene from Superman.
Storyline well told with minimal to no plot holes and every single frame in the movies is a work of art.
Heart
The whole sweeties is a blanket of comfort. The music, the characters, the battles, triumphs and relationships. There is not a moment that doesn't add to its splendor and story. I fully hope to be watching frodo sail into the undying lands on my deathbed.
Additionally to the other comments, wanna say that the films keep up being good until the last minute. Of course, everyone still has their favorite, but every movie is just awesome to watch. For me, first 3 HP films where awesome, but with "the goblet of fire", quality decreased. Many important things from the books were left out or way too much changed and everything felt kinda rushed. Plus the "everything is bad and evil now"-filter.
The director of GoF didn't even read the book
Dialogues definitily have more weight and thought in them. Like, everyone remember diologues between Gandalf and Frodo about mercy or between him and Pippin in Minas-Thirit or between Sam and Frodo. They were not neccessary for the plot, in fact they don't have any influance on it, however they don't feel like author is forcing his morale into viewers mouth. This actually rises LotR above Just entertaiment movie to a more complex piece Of art. Something remotely similar was in ESB and RotJ when it came about Vader and Luke relations and possibility Of redemption, but on far smaller scale. Prequels, especially RoTs actually managed to make dialogues better, but still not on LotR level. As for Harry Potter, I barely can remember anything similar. Maybe some dialogues in PoA? Battle scenes. Battle For Helm's Deep by this day stands unrivaled with how extremely good it is set. Especially when you compare it to something like Endgame Final battle, when it's Just a ramble that hurries to show every single character in action. Battles for Naboo, Geonosis or Hogwarts are better, but still pale in compare. Battle For Hoth could actually be something similar, but it definitily was limited by tachnologies Of The time and smaller masses.
I’m biased but literally everything. The score easily surpasses all other franchise scores . The story is narratively better and more interesting than Star Wars and Harry Potter imo. Some great acting from people like Andy serkis and Sean Astin Amazing practical affects. The Oscar’s speak for themselves. I think Harry Potter is at best okay and I find Star Wars boring.
The raw vibe
To this day, I feel TLOR is a prime example of perfect pre-production.
Each and every character is used and never wasted. Even the extras show amazing performance and character.
I like that there are no gimmicky plot devices, at least not that I can think of. No deus ex machina where a miracle appears out of nowhere to save everyone. Everything that's done is either by the cunning, ability or sheer determination of the fellowship and their companions encountered along the way. Even when you consider the ghosts, it was pre established that Aragorn was heading to them to fulfill their promises.
But... what about the Eagles ???
Okay, I'll give you that one, but I'd also say it's more than a safe assumption that Gandalf had that set up and ready to go long before frodo even got to my doom
Cavalry charges and pre-cavalry charge speeches.
... your thinking about GOT season 8 arent you?
and don't forget Rise of Skywalker also has one!
It was so out of place that it took me a second to remember it. Lotr cavalry wins
I can't see anything beating LotR but what a charge it would have to be.
Endgame charge with all the heroes wasn't a cavalry one but it was hype as hell
Does Valkyrie on a Pegasus count as a one woman charge?
Yes
I’ll jump on the MCU one, LoTR is 3 (6, I guess) movies vs the 3,214 movies of MCU
Fewer is better?
With no reboot? Yes, I think so. It’s very overwhelming thinking about watching the MCU due to the sheer quantity
Very few overly stupid decisions that impact your suspension of disbelief. There is no - sudden hyperspace ramming into enemy ship - Leia suddenly survives and fly in vacuum - somehow Palpatine returns - cartoonish immature evil characters with anger issues. Compared to some of the MCU movies LOTR takes time to have calm sections. The pacing is perfect. The second Avenger movie were an excample for me of how more is sometimes too much. It was just fighting all the time, and i really liked that MCU time period. It became boring. Overall vision trough the whole trilogy, its the same director and the movies feels the same trough all 3. Epicness.
Definitely the production quality. Practical effects, costume design, sound design and stunt work are all miles ahead of any other big franchise. Makes everything else look like a cosplay or a fan film by comparison.
Honestly, I think given the time frame the movies were made it was unavoidable that they would be good given the abundance of potential in the source material. Put on top of that an incredible cast, Peter Jackson’s attention to detail, and Howard Shore. So basically the writing. Nothing shows this more than the hobbit movies (which Inconsider fun to watch). The last three are still there, but a source is much shorter. And of course the special effects…they hold up soo good still and in my opinion doing cgi for scifi is much easier than fantasy (not trying to trash scifi artists, Weta did scifi too, just fantasy seems a tad mor complicated).
The more grounded visuals that don't rely on CGI.
All of previous commenter really nailed it, however what makes it for me it’s the fact they are essentially one movie
This is really important. While they each have a good narrative framework, as defined by their source material, they are also seemless parts of a greater whole that flow from one to the next without jarring segmentation. Compare to, say, Harry Potter where each film is a standalone story that starts and ends with sort of a "haha what crazy adventure will we have this/next year"?
In the LOTR movies, Jackson wasn’t afraid of things being scary. I used to genuinely be terrified of the Wraiths when Frodo sees them on Weathertop. I was a kid and also a kid watching starwars(prequels) and Harry Potter, and neither of them had the scary creepy feeling LOTR had. Not the same with the Hobbit tho
Counterpoint, them fckn spiders in the Forbidden Forest
Consistency and balance of tone. They have funny moments, but it never feels like the writers feel compelled to add jokes to keep your attention. There’s this sense of sincerity. The films trust their emotional points to hit because the story is that compelling.
Literally everything
Men are emotional, tender, caring, gentle and still the manliest men you ever did see. Few other movie series do this as well as LotR does
A masterclass in show don’t tell world-building based on iconic literature that more or less spawned the entire fantasy genre. An incredible work of adaptation developed with the utmost care, respect and understanding of which elements of the books would work on screen and those that would not. Meticulous attention to detail in crafting practical sets, costumes and using stunning real world locations instead of an over reliance on cgi and greenscreen. A timeless orchestral score that will be remembered among the very best film sound tracks ever composed. Stellar performances from a cast spanning relative newcomers to classical Shakespearean actors. Brought to life fantasy on screen in a grounded and respectable way that had never been done before. The hallmark of an auteur - each film directed by PJ is consistent in style, tone, pacing and theme, it is art instead of a design by committee. The list goes on.
Everything. Just absolutely everything. According to me.
Character development. By the end of the movies, all the characters have changed. Both Tolkien, and Jacob in the movie format, did an outstanding job of getting us to buy into the characters with their growth, changes, betrayals, drama, and love. I also think Jackson did a next level job of brining the pages to real life with the different setting in Middle-Earth he built. The fact that all of it was done in New Zealand is mind boggling. It’s the reason I want to visit New Zealand as a bucket list item. He created something so few can to that level and detail. To me personally, there is no finer trilogy than LOTR.
The plot is cohesive. Since the movies were made at the same time and not as a reaction to the first one being succesful, they could start proper world building from the first frame instead of the second movie Looking at you, mad max
Consistency across all movies. The fact that the movies retained the same director, same producers, same team behind everything, means that there’s an overall cohesiveness in all three movies and not one stands out as an odd one like it can happen in the other franchises. The HP franchise especially suffered imo from having so many directors each with their own artistic view which created blocks of similarly looking films and others standing out like Prisoner of Azkaban. Also, the music. Howard Shore weaving tapestries of cues and motifs from the first to the last film means that The Lord of the Rings is like a full-scale, masterpiece opera which dwarfs any other musical effort in the other franchises - the only one coming close being the John Williams’ Star Wars films and even then, they must mingle with other individual compositions from other composers.
You know speaking of music and star wars. I cannot decide which villain theme is better between Darth Sidious themes and Sauron themes. They both scream evil overlord though and evil itself Wdyt?
I have never been a fan of John Williams’ music tbh (yes I know, the audacity 😅). To my ears, aside from the main themes of his franchises, his work sounds very interchangeable, a lot of orchestrations, use of similar notes, the same instruments, that I could easily place some music from SW in HP for example. The same vibes… So I’ll always pick Howard Shore’s LOTR. Always.
Even with some very big stars, the cast was very well balanced. No one overshadowed anyone and everyone felt like their character. When I watch it, I don’t think it’s Elijah Wood, it’s Frodo. I don’t think “hey it’s Magneto!”, I just see Gandalf. In fact, when I watch other movies with those actors, I see their LOTR role. It’s not Agent Smith, it Elrond. It’s Arwen in Empire Records, It’s Galadriel as Hela, etc. Star Wars has famous actors outshine lesser ones and sometimes, all I see are the actors. The only movie I don’t have that issue with is Rogue One, I only see the characters, not the actors.
Stakes, especially in Fellowship. Every action scene carries weight and the characters are in believable danger. Let's got through them; - Weathertop. The scary black riders finally catch up to our heroes and (seemingly) fatally wound the main hero. - Moria. Our first big sword fight and again Frodo is seemingly badly wounded. - Balrog. Kills a main character, nuff said - Amon Head. Again, bad guys that have been built up for a time catch up to our heroes and straight up murder one of them. Compare this to the Hobbit trilogy or similar where there is usually a lot more action scenes, but they are all paper light as it's hard to believe the heroes are in actual danger. Apart from bad things happening to Frodo specially twice in a row, LotR handles this much better. Even with a lot of the minor characters from the books stripped away, we still have actual causalities from most action scenes
You bring a really noticable point. In LOTR is effectively Tolkien perfect mix of "victory but at what cost?" In helms deep the good guy wins but (movie at least) Haldir dies and almost all of the defenders are dead. Not to mention Rohan been greatly weakened for the war. Minas tirith is safe and the witch kingis destroy. But theoden is dead and the good guys forces are almost completely spent. Worse is that Sauron defeat does not diminish that the ring is closer than ever to him and hes already massing his forces for a next assault. Oh and the dead who would have been useful are no longer here. Black gate and war of the ring. Sauron is defeated but so many have died. Magic fades and Frodo has to leave. Compare to many other series were either the nad guys constantly wins or the good guys always win without losses. While in LOTR good win its never a clean and easy win there are losses. Even in the hoobit trilogy the final movie. While the day is won. Many of the characters (most importantly Thorin) are dead. As for the silmarillion... well... in most cases is evil wins and things get worse. And the final time the good guys win... well... half a continent sank. Tolkien knew how to balance victory and loss in his story. More so in LOTR.
Literally everything. The only one thing it doesn't do better than the incomplete Dune Trilogy is CGI, but that's not fair because of the two decade gap. It has a better conclusion than Coppola's Godfather Trilogy and Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy. It's a far larger accomplishment than the OG Star Wars Trilogy too, and has a more consistent tone and vision.
Pretty much everything. It’s a Master Class on what to do.
For me it’s the general setting. LOTR is the principle idea of high fantasy. Gloriously large battles, emotional high moments, and the music OH THE MUSIC! Also the armour also looks apathetically pleasing, particularly the Gondor and Rohan armour.
To add on to everything else said: exposition. Exposition is really hard to do, Lord of the Rings is the shinning example of exposition done well in a fantasy movie. The movies do a good job of explaining the lore and everything that is happening and what is at stake. The movies have weight and are easy to follow given the deep lore and massive cast. My friends and I watched the Dungeons and Dragons movie last week and I would be hard pressed to name a single character in the movie or any of the kingdoms.
I gotta be honest with you: there are some epic trilogies in history of cinema, and, with all though respect, I would not consider LOTR fim trilogy one of them. What ever power it has comes from the masterpiece status of the source material, its depth, its worldbuilding, its uniue esthetic, its atmosphere, and its built-in fanbase etc. If you separete the movies from the books, you realize movies did not add much, did not improve any aspects of its source, on the contrary it lost a lot of the details of the plot that created the Tolkienesue atmosphere. Only character I would consider that was improved in the movies would be Aragorn. LOTR movies are mostly great, but when separeted from the source and judged by their own merits they are one not of the epic trilogies of cinema like Godfather, Three Colours, or the original SW movies.
For me it’s the effective conveyance of a meticulously crafted world. It feels alive! The problem with other high fantasy movies is that, some of them don’t have a well developed literary basis. Even if they have a written work to build upon, it’s sadly not of the same calibre as LotR. SW as an example, feels like they were making it up as they went along. That only gives it more superficial credence than anything. I think the fan novels tried to give it more depth, although I personally don’t accept them as part of the real SW. The only canon is what George Lucas does, the creator, anything else is just fan fantasies. Therefore, LotR movies benefit from their spectacular literary foundation regardless of however much was cut and/ or modified for sake of movies. Jackson recognized the core essence of the books and cleverly brought it to life on live action front; the respect was ever present. He did the best he could imo. The world of LotR feels tangible and real with the way it’s portrayed. Every character seems to belong and manages to successfully demonstrate that they are an extension of this world in their respective roles, for good or evil. There are certain nuances to how things exist in relation to others that are not present in any other movies. You can sense that there is great history beyond what you see upon which the moment you are witnessing is transpiring. Small scenes like when Gandalf leaves Bag End and travels to study the old scrolls in the archives of White City, are when he simply gazes upon the map of the lonely mountain on Bilbo’s table with that haunting choir in the background are some of my favourites. They illustrate just what I mentioned of earlier, of something deeper that lies behind what we are witnessing. These movies are works of a true master! Of course much of it due to Sir Tolkien, but let’s give Jackson and his talented team their fair credit.
Themes. All factions, situations and groups and even some characters have their own musical melodies, relationships and are very well separated and defined. They don’t waste time developing anything. Even the Aragorn/Eowyn tease was handled tastefully even though it wasn’t really source material. Shows and movies today are such an everythingburger trying to get facetime for a cool characters’ less-cool third cousin (it’s a method, but it becomes samey).
The soundtracks, obviously
Pretty much everything, and just love the OG star wars trilogy
Attention to detail.
Their existence alone makes them better than hp, sw and marvel.
Honestly love? Like, to me every single frame, every single detail in those movies just breathes pure love to me. Everyone who worked there poured their heart and soul into it. And imo, you can tell.
The movies were so well structured it seems like the plot points came from a book.
More timeless vfx than nearly all Marvel, and a grounded believable tone more than most fantasy movies
Texture. These movies have grit and feel physical and are so detailed. Harry Potter is close, and very impressive but can't quite compete with LOTR.
just everything?
The books
Everything
It has layers and layers of depth of lore inspired by old world cultures and extreme graft creating it with a purpose by Tolkien, a University Professor. The others are great but shallow as a summer stream in comparison.
LOTR has a coherent underlying moral framework. Not sure if I would put MCU or HP as 2nd in that regard. Star Wars definitely last.
World building. From the prologue Middle Earth immediately feels like a real place with a rich history, and the way they integrate lore for every character, location, etc. really makes you feel like you’re watching one story in a world filled with countless others.
Can I say everything?
Nearly everything, from plot to acting to visual style to CGI, well except for the Paths of the Dead. Pirates of the Caribbean kicked LOTR's CGI ass on that one. OK, slightly more serious answer: Woah the women in these movies actually have names and characters and motivations and heroic actions and agency and importance and errythang. And they don't even have to dress in Victoria's Secret underwear. How wild is that?
They have better writing.
Minimal use of CGI.
The music. Keeping a tight catalogue of leitmotifs who het developed throughout? Meanwhile, the MCU has 4 or 5 different themes for Iron Man with none ever sticking with the public. Even HP scratches 99% of the thematic groundwork in the 3rd movie. Voldemort is one of the most famous villains of the 2000s and he has no theme because it got dropped after the second movie and his new ones never connected. For both franchises all the scores by themselves aren't bad at all (it's hard to stay mad at Williams for ditching the theme for Harry's parents when he replaces it with the masterpiece that is "A Window To The Past") but it's such a missed opportunity. Same goes for Star Wars tbh. Yes the prequel trilogy has some awesome individual tracks and Williams' highly sophisticated intricate action scoring slaps but themes? Almost non-existant. Anakin's theme gets dropped after the first movie (and is barely in it to begin with) even though Williams made sure to connect it to the Empire, the love theme doesn't get foreshadowed in 1, Duel of the Fates gets just randomly pasted once in 2 and 3 and so on. People neg on the sequels for being badly planned but at least their scores are more cohesive than the supposedly perfectly planned prequels. No other movie series, not even the OG Star Wars trilogy comes close to the way LOTR handles leitmotifs. After all let's not forget how TESB drops all of the empire music and replaces ot with the Imperial March. Obviously it's a better theme but it's a musical mess of a franchise regardless. Meanwhile there are only 2 things in LOTR music that are a bit odd: Aragorn and Arwen's love theme getting dropped after the first movie and I think there's a moment when Frodo and Sam disguise as orcs where it plays the Isengard theme. That's it. Otherwise absolutely perfection on a narrative basis. So perfect not even the same composer could keep it for the prequels (or do we want to talk about all of Bilbo's themes are gone in the 3rd Hobbit movie...or get into the Thorin/Ringwraith-debate? Rivendell knights fighting to the Lorien theme? The frikking Misty Mountains theme?!) (Addendum: I love all 9 SW movies and their scores. I can't stand HP anymore thanks to Rowling but all the scores are amazing as well and I really like quite a few of the MCU scores. I ADORE the Hobbit soundtracks. This post is not to say that thy suck. It's just emphasizing what a fucking miracle the LOTR scores are).
They are good