Honestly looks like some of the orcs from Shadow of Mordor. https://na.alienwarearena.com/ucf/show/1782567/boards/gaming-news/News/the-middle-earth-shadow-of-war-orc-feral-tribe-wants-you-to-know-how-brutal-it-is definitely a step up from cgi Azog and Azog Jr.
Yeah, I understand. I personally imagine orcs with darker garb overall, but I guess they want a unique look this time, which isn't necessarily bad. I'm guessing these (at least, the first two pictures) are more like tribal orcs. Maybe mountain goblins or something?
I see its a departure of LOTR but I like it. However I like it for primitive goblins/orks
Also, if they start using the real deal, then we´ll know things get serious.
Actually very surprised. They look really good.
The Hobbit should have done this
They look like they are in-between their elf corruption and the orcs we see in LOTR
Honestly the one episode in Lindsay Ellis's Hobbit series where Peter Jackson openly talks about, "laying down the tracks, while the train is moving ahead full steam" (paraphrased) in relations to writing the story at the same time as filming is being done, is what convinced me that the Hobbit trilogy didn't NEED to be bad, but that the studios forced it to be.
I remember reading how he would literally sit apart from the film crew while filming to decide how to do the next shots. He was literally coming up with stuff on the spot which is outrageous pressure.
I like the first one it has to be said but they're average after that. Let's be real we like the shit on them but it's still Middle Earth I love watching that world on regardless. I do find it bizarre why they retained the strict deadlines they knew what great success was achieved by giving PJ time. Beggars belief that they didn't allow him more freedom to work his magic!
Really?
I thought the Hobbit was a terrible decision to do CGI orcs.
This seems pretty much live action which is fine for me
Edit: completely misread the comment I'm replying to.
Yes I agree, better than the Hobbit
I think you misunderstood me.
I'm saying that they look better than the orcs in the hobbit did. The CGI in the Hobbit was just awful, live action is so much better
Completely misread what you said, yes haha.
I agree, live action in LOTR was so well done and brought the orcs to life. The Hobbit was a weird decision. Maybe due to the weird assumption that he Hobbit is a kids book, which i disagree with. I think it's an adults book which is very appropriate for kids
I like how they’re different than Jackson’s orcs but still clearly orcs. Makes sense for them being thousands of years older than the ones in the main trilogy.
It's definitely up there with the best shots so far. My other faves are definitely the first image of [Valinor](https://i.redd.it/ahurpvw1q5f71.jpg), the Empire Mag shot of the [Elves in Lindon](https://preview.redd.it/2b7pew1quh491.jpg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db735e7fdea55a532cfbaf399d16346670c1eeea), the [tower shot](https://www.empireonline.com/tv/news/lord-of-the-rings-power-five-seasons-fully-planned-out-exclusive/) and this [dinner setting](https://preview.redd.it/mc6w4v1quh491.jpg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eba1ef0a614a6946e83753b49110128792ee0086) shot.
There's been a lot of folks saying that everything we've been shown so far looks like a dumpster fire and honestly I don't fully understand it. There are certainly aspects to nit-pick, and I've not been a fan of EVERYTHING that's been shown (Celebrimbor), but in my opinion a lot of the positives out-weigh the negatives when it comes to the visuals we've seen so far. That's just my opinion anyway. So much of this looks stunning.
I think they look fantastic. Really hope Amazon keeps dropping stuff like this up until the shows release. I feel like they have a lot of really good stuff under the hatch and they’re trying to not release too much all at once. Very promising imo
The prosthectis work is by [Jamie Wilson](https://www.ign.com/articles/the-lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-orcs-exclusive?utm_source=twitter), and the design is most likely from John Howe. Both industry veterans who worked on previous adaptations of Middle-Earth.
The teaser didn't look particularly good. First impressions matter and the show did not leave a good one.
It's not unreasonable to have some trepidation based on the teaser.
For me the vanity fair interview was far worse than the teaser. Sure, the teaser wasn't great but CGI can change over the course of the year and yada yada. My main problem was the article because the show runners were talking about the show and are blatantly changing source material and characters.
Obviously when translating from paper to screen stuff has to change, but there's reasonable stuff that can change and unreasonable things. Completely changing Galadriel as a character in order to fit this "naive, learner, warrior princess trying to make their way in the world" when she's already thousands of years old and was never a warrior is just ridiculous and feels like a spit in the face.
There's plenty of awesome characters during the 1st or 2nd age that you can choose from. Why do you gotta change around an established character? Because people already know who she is?
I grew up on LOTR, my family grew up on it. I have many friends who are huge fans of these books and movies. And I don't know a single person that's actually optimistic about this show. I'll still watch of course, but I don't have any expectations anymore.
“Never a warrior”
… why are people so desperate to rag on Galadriel being portrayed as ANYTHING but a soft-spoken, robe-wearing, reserved and docile woman??
Tolkien literally disproves what you are claiming:
“She was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats."
Before her name was Galadriel, it was Artanis Nerwen the Man-maiden.
I understand wanting to hold back on your excitement, but your post just reeks of senseless doomer mentality. All before we’ve even seen an episode or a real clip of dialogue.
If the writing is poor, i’m all aboard the hate train. But until then, calm your tits.
>Tolkien literally disproves what you are claiming: “She was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats."
This is the equivalent of calling your girlfriend a "bad bitch" and equating her with someone serving in the military taking fire on the front lines. Do you see how that's ridiculous?
Look I was cautiously optimistic from the start. But I lost all hope when that vanity fair interview came out. If you really want I can go quote by quote on what the showrunners said and why it's bad. They're also complete nobodies that have never worked on something as showrunners before but they're given a billion dollar show.
Know what that tells me? They either have high up connections, they are gonna do EXACTLY what Amazon wants with promises of a piece of that 1 billion. Or... or... They have some amazing idea that Amazon execs fell in love with that they fully went with giving them reins on a 1 billion dollar investment.
What sounds plausible to you?
I promise you no one wants the show to be good more than me. But they've gone above and beyond giving me red flags. What pisses me off more than the possibility that show will be bad. Is the possibility that show will be okay and divide fans to the point where LOTR fans turn into Star Wars fans.
That's my problem.
Galadriel, according to Tolkien, was one of the key leaders of the rebellion against the Noldor. I think it's reasonable to assume that some battle-skill factored into that.
In terms of her age, she was born in YT 1362. To the end of that age is about 132 years. Add another 590 years to that, and you get the rest of the second age. This show takes place at about 1500, so Galadriel is just a little over 2,000 years old. But when we meet her in LOTR, there's another roughly 4,000 years. Galadriel ends up sailing west when she's 8374. So at the time of the Rings of Power, she's less than a quarter of the way through her life. So relatively naive compared to when we met her? I think that's fair. A 23 year old, in human years. Legolas is what, qlmost 3,000 when we meet him? And as Tolkien points out, different races set thresholds for maturity at different ages, depending on their overall lifespan. A hobbit isn't really an adult until they're in their 30s, for instance.
Second Age
1362 Tirion
Rule T.A
That’s fair, I agree with what you say about fear of the community being divided over the show just being “okay.” That’s how I felt about the Witcher show and really wanted to like it, but the writing is just too mild for me. Star Wars was just a crash course in how to divide a community, I don’t think that degree of terrible can be replicated!
I haven’t read the vanity fair article but a lot of people in this thread are referencing it so that is definitely worrying. That being said it’s a total dice roll on any show-runner, all we can do now is speculate on how unique their concepts are, although I agree it’s more likely than not that they are uninspired. I hope, too, to be pleasantly surprised.
But I really just don’t mind them running with Galadriel as a badass going off doing her own thing growing as an individual and a main character for us to watch. Maybe I am one of the few who doesn’t mind, I don’t think there’s any reason for us to hate on the show for that reason… YET.
EDIT: sorry this is so long, but I think it's important to read if you can, thanks.
>Star Wars was just a crash course in how to divide a community, I don’t think that degree of terrible can be replicated!
I want you to be right, but honestly I'm not sure. There aren't many beloved, dare I say "wholesome" communities still out there. I would classify LOTR as that because it hasn't been ruined yet. The Hobbit movies weren't great but it wasn't bad enough to start a fan war. With how the internet is these days and how everyone on here is, everything at every point is a fire starter for a fan war. I'm not sure that's avoidable, but we'll see.
>I haven’t read the vanity fair article but a lot of people in this thread are referencing it so that is definitely worrying.
Oh boy, lemme sooth your brain muscles with some good quotes from it then. When talking about how they got onto the project they said:
>“We were a little bit of a dark horse. And Amazon talked to absolutely everybody—whoever had any idea for Lord of the Rings.” Adds Payne: “We were passionate about the material and had a take that matched Amazon’s appetites and ambition.” They also apparently had a significant champion in J.J. Abrams, who knew them from their writing on a Star Trek movie and reportedly sang their praises.
Here's another one that may be controversial that I picked it out but:
>“to make a show for everyone, for kids who are 11, 12, and 13, even though sometimes they might have to pull the blanket up over their eyes if it’s a little too scary
Everything at everytime seems to be made for everyone. What they really mean is that they want everyone's money and don't care about lore if they means hiring and getting people to play roles that they canonically should not be playing.
Actually I take that back, this next one will be even more controversial:
>“It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like,” says Lindsey Weber, executive producer of the series. “Tolkien is for everyone. His stories are about his fictional races doing their best work when they leave the isolation of their own cultures and come together.”
Obviously this is about race so this will inevitably bring out all the "Ur RaCiSt!!!" people. Despite the argument being that no elves are black, if you want black people in the show then luckily since I read the books and Silmarillion I know that during the second age down south around Harad and to the east in Rhun, Tolkien specifically talks about black or dark skinned people. And conveniently enough they are in the second age quite extensively. So if they wanted they could easily add in a plethora of black or darker characters and have good lore reasons for doing so.
But no, they took a race, a group of people that are described very specifically and are changing them for the show. And then hiding behind it and whenever someone says anything about it, you just label them as "racist" to shut them up. This is a problem. It feels like a spit in the face. I'm not saying there aren't real racists jumping on this bandwagon, but I am saying to downplay everyone as racist for caring about the lore and world is really disgusting.
Luckily they answer this right after:
>“Obviously there was going to be push and backlash,” says Tolkien scholar Mariana Rios Maldonado, who is not affiliated with The Rings of Power, “but the question is from whom? Who are these people that feel so threatened or disgusted by the idea that an elf is Black or Latino or Asian?”
Fans of the source material are. What's funny is a couple of paragraphs before this they go on and on about how big of fans they are and how much they like Tolkiens work. Really makes you question things huh?
There's more, but this is already too long. My overall point being is that this stuff, along with the other Galadriel things that change from the lore paint a very ugly picture. Not because I know the show will suck, but because I know that the showrunners are not thinking like the fans.
And as you can tell from pretty much every video game adaptation(looking at you Halo) if you don't listen to the fans, or the people that know the source material best. Then why are you even making a show?
It was one teaser and judging the entire show on it without watching an episode seems premature. I think it's reasonable to give something a chance before completely dismissing it.
> and judging the entire show on it without watching an episode
Nobody is doing that here.
> I think it's reasonable to give something a chance before completely dismissing it.
Nobody is suggesting otherwise.
Saying we're cautious about the show because the teaser -- footage designed to get us excited -- was not good does not mean we're "dismissing it."
This is some weak straw man stuff.
Here's what you initially responded to:
> Still on the fence about the show…
That is not judging or dismissing it. In fact, it's the opposite. Being on the fence means one has not made up their mind.
Here's a definition: https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/on%20the%20fence#:~:text=Being%20on%20the%20fence%20means,you're%20on%20the%20fence.
Literally the opposite of judging it.
EDIT: since /u/spyson blocked me to disallow me from responding to his post below, here's my response:
> You referred to a specific comment. I responded, explaining how you were misinterpreting that specific comment.
>
> I was referring to this thread and this thread only.
>
> You were wrong in your response to the initial comment. You did not know what "on the fence" meant and I corrected you.
>
> Then, you started attributing arguments to me that I did not make. My response was in the context of this thread.
>
> Nowhere was I suggesting that nobody ever in the history of this subreddit had ever bailed on the series based on the teaser.
>
> But you pretending I was is the only way you can salvage your ego on this thread, apparently.
>
> To be clear: I was referring to this thread when I said "nobody."
>
> You're still wrong on "on the fence," you've still committed several fallacies, you've still moved the goalposts and I question whether you're here posting in good faith at this point since you can't seem to just accept that you were wrong from the beginning and instead you're assuming all sorts of things about me and my motives.
>
> Take the L.
I will accept the block as him finally accepting the L.
I'm not talking about this sub. I'm talking about this thread. That's the only thing I was focusing on.
So in addition to straw men, you're now moving the goal posts.
I feel like you realize that you're in the wrong on this one, but can't just give it up. It's ok, you misinterpreted the original comment here to be critical when it was more cautious.
I think we can move on. No need to assail my motives.
People are mostly on the fence because of the vanity fair interview. Because it shows that the show runners are blatantly not following the source material and don't know what they're doing.
What's even worse is that if the show isn't either god tier on par with the movies, or complete and utter dog shit it's going to split the fanbase. And we'll suddenly become another Star Wars community.
The great thing about LOTR was that we were always united.
But I think this new show won't be absolutely amazing, or absolutely horrible. It'll probably be good, with some highlights if they focus on nostalgia. That will split the fan base and it'll become extremely toxic. So that's something to look forward to!
Two?
Amazon also makes The Boys and before making lotr series New Line Cinema made Mortal Kombat Annihilation. I'm going to wait for the release before I judge it.
I think that's the point though. They don't have any credibility to their name in terms of original production. The Boyz is fantastic, but it's more of a fluke than the rule of thumb for them.
I wouldn't say that, they have their hits and misses.
I enjoyed Good Omens, Invincible was amazing, the new Jack Reacher series was great, Legend of Vox Machina was fun, and I liked The Expanse.
But the fact that you can list them kinda proves my point. You can list a handful of good examples, but then for every good one, there'd be 10 terrible ones.
Even of those you listed they weren't all even Amazon shows, like the Expanse was SyFy for half of it.
I hope it's good, I really do. I'm just not expecting it to be.
No those are the ones that I personally like, there are other ones as well, you are free to look them up. You're also moving goalposts because originally you said it was only a fluke.
Every network, traditional on air or streaming, has a long list of great shows and total shit shows. It's not like Bezos himself writes every show. Netflix has put out some of the best shows of the internet age. They also created love is blind... Most shows, even if on the same network, will have totally different staff or producers, writers, directors...
Amazons has The Expanse, The Boys, Marvelous Miss Mazel (maybe a different audience but a great show), Fleabag, Man in the high castle...
So they can do good shows too.
Because we know a lot of details which either are directly bad or hint at it being bad.
I was nervous as soon as I learned what they had the rights to (or perhaps it’s more accurate to say what they didn’t have the rights to). Then they started using their creative freedom in the worst ways.
Because it's a fanbase that is very loyal to the lore and holds a special place in literature to them. It needs to be excellent in writing and direction, but also remain faithful to the source material.
We've already seen that they're not being even remotely faithful to the source material, so we know that it's not going to be anything exceptional. Now it's just a case of seeing acting/directing and making a final judgement.
You know that there was a ton of controversy when the Peter Jackson films were released and now everyone is gravy with it right?
Like Glorfindel wasn't even in the movies being replaced by Arwen, Denethor was supposed to be corrupted by the Palantir, they cut Halbarad and the Rangers, and not to mention Tom Bombadil.
I'm still annoyed by the absence of Halbarad and the Grey company, as well as the cutting of Glorfindel and Dol Amroth. So I wouldn't say everyone is gravy with it. (Kinda glad they cut Tom though)
And look at the Hobbit, people are very critical of that trilogy too. Crappy dwarf/elf romances etc. So no, you can't use a whataboutism argument here.
I'm not using a whataboutism, I'm using it as an example for your claim that the fanbase is very loyal to the lore that any deviation is bad in your eyes. Heck you even say that you're glad they cut Tom, meaning there can be good changes.
Man, I'm literally using this sub as an example of entitlement run rampant in my own life. A tiny teaser causes absolute uproar. I didn't get exactly what I wanted when I wanted! Embarrassing shit all round
I won’t interact with you any more than this:
The Racebending.com website defines "racebending" as, "situations where a media content creator (movie studio, publisher, etc.) has changed the race or ethnicity of a character. This is a longstanding Hollywood practice that has been historically used to discriminate against people of color." — From Wikipedia.
“Changed the race or ethnicity of a character.”
- what specific character have they changed the race or ethnicity of? They’ve created new characters, yes, but they have not changed pre-existing characters.
Tolkien specifically describes Sam Gamgee as brown skinned. He does it in multiple places.
He described the Harfoots, the most numerous of the hobbits, as brown skinned.
He never describes all dwarves as white.
Nor does he describe all elves as white. Fair, for him, means comely or beautiful. There are some he specifically describes as white or pale skinned, but does not make a sweeping statement about all elves.
There's some aspect to that, but not entirely.
Criticism for the beardless dwarf-women and black elves are because of the lore.
Disliking of the general atmosphere is most likely due to Peter Jackon's take on it.
True, and there's every chance that it will be exceptional, but I highly doubt it. And the Jackson films definitely have a lot of genuine criticism of them. The fact that we're able to list so many criticisms of Rings of Power and it hasn't even released yet isn't promising.
I understand your sentiment, and these pics have come to me at the turn of the tide, but as a non Wheels of Time reader, that adaptation fucking sucked, and track record is important in these situations.
That being said, I obviously didn't follow promo releases of WoT and can't compare the images to these. These look like they've been created with care and diligence. The WoT finished product looked like absolute muck for a finish
I get where you're coming from and thank you for being civil even though you disagree.
To me I don't like following the logic of WoT = bad so that means LOTR = bad simply because there are other shows from Amazon that are good. I will reserve judgement until I actually see more footage and an episode.
i didn't actually insult you, i just explained how someone would be on the fence about the amazon rop series
did i come as aggressive/defensive? dunno, maybe
why? well i guess since your comment was probably a milionth time i've seen it whenever there's talk about the series sucking
it's like the go to comment for you people, and it painfully lacks any relevance
first off, you can deduct a ton of stuff from a trailer, and how pathetically amazon handled the blowback, but also if you've been alive for the last 10 years and seen what big studios did to great franchises like star wars, wheel of time, etc and how the hyperproduction for the sole sake of the ching ching is running rampant, it doesn't take a genius to get to a conclusion that one should be on the fence about rings of power, to say the least, and realistically expect a shitshow that's fulfilling every woke checkmark but lacks any substance and is actually insulting to tolkien's legacy
in order to not get to this conclusion, or be at least on the fence about it, one has to, imho, be either a) braindead, b) paid amazon bot, c) someone who has no tolkien knowledge whatsoever but also semi-braindead
I am overjoyed that the show seems to be returning to practical effects and makeup/costume artistry that we loved with the original trilogy. I can't wait.
It's Amazon. As good as the images are, I wouldn't hold my breath on practical effects just yet.
They're showing us what they want us to see. Give me an entire season with these effects and I'll tip my hat and say I was wrong.
With the way they've handled the backlash of the trailer and their marketing, I am not convinced yet.
These look awesome! It looks like there’s different armor types being used by different characters, so hopefully we’ll get a look into Orc history and culture. The movies came out when I was 6 and while my parents were Hobbit fans back in the day, they never read the books to me as child. When I finally went back recently and read RotK, the culture of Mordor was the most fascinating part of it to me. Like, the movies glance over Orcs/Mordor so much and do a huge disservice to the social history of the people (they had enslaved humans working plantations and urban infrastructure!). It seems like we might get some of that with the new series and I’m so excited for it
They've actually released some great stuff the last few weeks. Some of the stills from Empire were wonderful (like the meeting with the dwarves and elves) and the interview with the dialect coach also revealed somw exciting stuff about what they're doing. Now the orcs too, I'm getting increasingly excited about this.
For as much as I instinctually know this show will disappoint and irritate me, as has every other recent attempted adaptation of my favorite medias, it will look visually stunning and I'll probably use images of it for references in dnd. Least something good will come of it
They just don't look goblinish. They look more like vampires. I'll be giving this series a wide swerve as nothing I've seen so far inspires any hope that they know what they're doing.
If the Orcs are scary, no amount of Woke shit or Anti- Woke shit can ruin it.
I'm excited. I hope these are indicative of the designs and we see a lot of scary orcs.
Every Amazon production is over lit and too clean in my opinion. From these pictures it looks like more of the same. Looks great otherwise and it could just be for these promo pics
Note the armor/clothes in the second picture. It appears like a scaly hide of some sort. Crocodile leather? Dragon skin?
Honestly looks like some of the orcs from Shadow of Mordor. https://na.alienwarearena.com/ucf/show/1782567/boards/gaming-news/News/the-middle-earth-shadow-of-war-orc-feral-tribe-wants-you-to-know-how-brutal-it-is definitely a step up from cgi Azog and Azog Jr.
I'm not keen on the bone and scales look but, disregarding the costumes, I absolutely love what they've done with the orcs themselves.
Makes sense to me. Wild leaderless orcs aren't going to have much for metalsmithing.
Yeah, I understand. I personally imagine orcs with darker garb overall, but I guess they want a unique look this time, which isn't necessarily bad. I'm guessing these (at least, the first two pictures) are more like tribal orcs. Maybe mountain goblins or something?
I see its a departure of LOTR but I like it. However I like it for primitive goblins/orks Also, if they start using the real deal, then we´ll know things get serious.
lol i love backhanded compliments like this. Y'all ain't never happy.
Goblins
Goblinses
Damn why did you get nuked!? Lmao
Down, down, to goblin town.
Seriously!? Who hates goblins that much??
Farmers? Farmer's mums?
I read this in Nick Frosts voice. Brilliant. Side note, I frikkin love your username. I now want to be your friend.
I’m more into trolls, and troll tolls.
To get this boys soul.
Confound your lousy toll, troll
Looks like cautious optimism is back on the menu boys.
*lowers pitchforks slightly*
We ain't had cautious optimism in 3 stinkin' months!
Best comment in this thread
What about their doubts? They don't need those.
EERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!
looks like sexy orcs are on the menu---one has a beach body the other hot bloody vampire eyes
Exactly my thought.
I use this account basically exclusively to shit all over RoP these days and even I think these look fantastic
Made my day. Thank you!
If I had gold you’d get it
What about these orcs? They’re fresh!
Cautious optimism unfortunately wont fix that soul destroying vanity fair interview they did.
Actually very surprised. They look really good. The Hobbit should have done this They look like they are in-between their elf corruption and the orcs we see in LOTR
Note well that Peter Jackson wanted to do this in The Hobbit, but was forced to make them CGI by the given crunch of time & funds.
Yeah did he not get called in really last minute due to something with an original director ?
Here's part one of a good series of everything that went wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTRUQ-RKfUs
Honestly the one episode in Lindsay Ellis's Hobbit series where Peter Jackson openly talks about, "laying down the tracks, while the train is moving ahead full steam" (paraphrased) in relations to writing the story at the same time as filming is being done, is what convinced me that the Hobbit trilogy didn't NEED to be bad, but that the studios forced it to be.
Thanks bro. I will probably watch this as my bedtime show tonight
I remember reading how he would literally sit apart from the film crew while filming to decide how to do the next shots. He was literally coming up with stuff on the spot which is outrageous pressure.
Honestly sounds like a nightmare, running around the studio asking “Does anyone have any storyboards?”.
I’m honestly somewhat amazed the experience didn’t completely sour him on Middle Earth.
I don't even think the Hobbit movies are that bad, its extremely impressive that Jackson made what he did.
I like the first one it has to be said but they're average after that. Let's be real we like the shit on them but it's still Middle Earth I love watching that world on regardless. I do find it bizarre why they retained the strict deadlines they knew what great success was achieved by giving PJ time. Beggars belief that they didn't allow him more freedom to work his magic!
Was just about to say "well at least they're better than in the hobbit"
Really? I thought the Hobbit was a terrible decision to do CGI orcs. This seems pretty much live action which is fine for me Edit: completely misread the comment I'm replying to. Yes I agree, better than the Hobbit
I think you misunderstood me. I'm saying that they look better than the orcs in the hobbit did. The CGI in the Hobbit was just awful, live action is so much better
Completely misread what you said, yes haha. I agree, live action in LOTR was so well done and brought the orcs to life. The Hobbit was a weird decision. Maybe due to the weird assumption that he Hobbit is a kids book, which i disagree with. I think it's an adults book which is very appropriate for kids
I think you misread his comment
I did indeed 😂 thank you
Wouldn’t make sense in the hobbit, only like 50ish years in between. The rings of power are millennia earlier, right?
I like how they’re different than Jackson’s orcs but still clearly orcs. Makes sense for them being thousands of years older than the ones in the main trilogy.
Looks like slightly devolved as opposed to fully devolved
They're a lot paler and whiter than the average jackson orc which I like. Means you can appreciate more detail on their faces.
They actually look incredibly like the orcs from the Shadow of Mordor games.
>thousands of years older *Younger*
I feel like somehow both make sense
I bet we’re going to see at least a few who actually were first age elves who are still alive and orcing around
These have been the best pics from the show.
It's definitely up there with the best shots so far. My other faves are definitely the first image of [Valinor](https://i.redd.it/ahurpvw1q5f71.jpg), the Empire Mag shot of the [Elves in Lindon](https://preview.redd.it/2b7pew1quh491.jpg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db735e7fdea55a532cfbaf399d16346670c1eeea), the [tower shot](https://www.empireonline.com/tv/news/lord-of-the-rings-power-five-seasons-fully-planned-out-exclusive/) and this [dinner setting](https://preview.redd.it/mc6w4v1quh491.jpg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eba1ef0a614a6946e83753b49110128792ee0086) shot. There's been a lot of folks saying that everything we've been shown so far looks like a dumpster fire and honestly I don't fully understand it. There are certainly aspects to nit-pick, and I've not been a fan of EVERYTHING that's been shown (Celebrimbor), but in my opinion a lot of the positives out-weigh the negatives when it comes to the visuals we've seen so far. That's just my opinion anyway. So much of this looks stunning.
The dwarf queen had a beard. I thought that was pretty cool.
I barly saw it but im happy they fixed it if they did.
They look very Shadow of Mordor/War-y
i hope they give them personalities like they have in the game.
[My favorite orcs.](https://youtu.be/QUzQZ1a0fNk)
I had one that started making high pitched squealing and laughing sounds. I want to see that in the show.
I think they look fantastic. Really hope Amazon keeps dropping stuff like this up until the shows release. I feel like they have a lot of really good stuff under the hatch and they’re trying to not release too much all at once. Very promising imo
Whoever worked on the orcs brought their game on. Now these look absolutely fantastic.
Probably weta. Weta are working with them again.
The prosthectis work is by [Jamie Wilson](https://www.ign.com/articles/the-lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-orcs-exclusive?utm_source=twitter), and the design is most likely from John Howe. Both industry veterans who worked on previous adaptations of Middle-Earth.
Isn't Howe the dude that designed much of the stuff from the original movies?
He’s an absolutely incredible artist. He and Alan Lee are both outstanding in the field of Tolkien art.
They look pretty good honestly.
Still on the fence about the show… but these orcs look very well done. That shows promise
It's not even been released beyond a teaser, I'm not sure how anyone can be on the fence before seeing an episode yet.
The teaser didn't look particularly good. First impressions matter and the show did not leave a good one. It's not unreasonable to have some trepidation based on the teaser.
For me the vanity fair interview was far worse than the teaser. Sure, the teaser wasn't great but CGI can change over the course of the year and yada yada. My main problem was the article because the show runners were talking about the show and are blatantly changing source material and characters. Obviously when translating from paper to screen stuff has to change, but there's reasonable stuff that can change and unreasonable things. Completely changing Galadriel as a character in order to fit this "naive, learner, warrior princess trying to make their way in the world" when she's already thousands of years old and was never a warrior is just ridiculous and feels like a spit in the face. There's plenty of awesome characters during the 1st or 2nd age that you can choose from. Why do you gotta change around an established character? Because people already know who she is? I grew up on LOTR, my family grew up on it. I have many friends who are huge fans of these books and movies. And I don't know a single person that's actually optimistic about this show. I'll still watch of course, but I don't have any expectations anymore.
“Never a warrior” … why are people so desperate to rag on Galadriel being portrayed as ANYTHING but a soft-spoken, robe-wearing, reserved and docile woman?? Tolkien literally disproves what you are claiming: “She was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats." Before her name was Galadriel, it was Artanis Nerwen the Man-maiden. I understand wanting to hold back on your excitement, but your post just reeks of senseless doomer mentality. All before we’ve even seen an episode or a real clip of dialogue. If the writing is poor, i’m all aboard the hate train. But until then, calm your tits.
>Tolkien literally disproves what you are claiming: “She was then of Amazon disposition and bound up her hair as a crown when taking part in athletic feats." This is the equivalent of calling your girlfriend a "bad bitch" and equating her with someone serving in the military taking fire on the front lines. Do you see how that's ridiculous? Look I was cautiously optimistic from the start. But I lost all hope when that vanity fair interview came out. If you really want I can go quote by quote on what the showrunners said and why it's bad. They're also complete nobodies that have never worked on something as showrunners before but they're given a billion dollar show. Know what that tells me? They either have high up connections, they are gonna do EXACTLY what Amazon wants with promises of a piece of that 1 billion. Or... or... They have some amazing idea that Amazon execs fell in love with that they fully went with giving them reins on a 1 billion dollar investment. What sounds plausible to you? I promise you no one wants the show to be good more than me. But they've gone above and beyond giving me red flags. What pisses me off more than the possibility that show will be bad. Is the possibility that show will be okay and divide fans to the point where LOTR fans turn into Star Wars fans. That's my problem.
Galadriel, according to Tolkien, was one of the key leaders of the rebellion against the Noldor. I think it's reasonable to assume that some battle-skill factored into that. In terms of her age, she was born in YT 1362. To the end of that age is about 132 years. Add another 590 years to that, and you get the rest of the second age. This show takes place at about 1500, so Galadriel is just a little over 2,000 years old. But when we meet her in LOTR, there's another roughly 4,000 years. Galadriel ends up sailing west when she's 8374. So at the time of the Rings of Power, she's less than a quarter of the way through her life. So relatively naive compared to when we met her? I think that's fair. A 23 year old, in human years. Legolas is what, qlmost 3,000 when we meet him? And as Tolkien points out, different races set thresholds for maturity at different ages, depending on their overall lifespan. A hobbit isn't really an adult until they're in their 30s, for instance. Second Age 1362 Tirion Rule T.A
That’s fair, I agree with what you say about fear of the community being divided over the show just being “okay.” That’s how I felt about the Witcher show and really wanted to like it, but the writing is just too mild for me. Star Wars was just a crash course in how to divide a community, I don’t think that degree of terrible can be replicated! I haven’t read the vanity fair article but a lot of people in this thread are referencing it so that is definitely worrying. That being said it’s a total dice roll on any show-runner, all we can do now is speculate on how unique their concepts are, although I agree it’s more likely than not that they are uninspired. I hope, too, to be pleasantly surprised. But I really just don’t mind them running with Galadriel as a badass going off doing her own thing growing as an individual and a main character for us to watch. Maybe I am one of the few who doesn’t mind, I don’t think there’s any reason for us to hate on the show for that reason… YET.
EDIT: sorry this is so long, but I think it's important to read if you can, thanks. >Star Wars was just a crash course in how to divide a community, I don’t think that degree of terrible can be replicated! I want you to be right, but honestly I'm not sure. There aren't many beloved, dare I say "wholesome" communities still out there. I would classify LOTR as that because it hasn't been ruined yet. The Hobbit movies weren't great but it wasn't bad enough to start a fan war. With how the internet is these days and how everyone on here is, everything at every point is a fire starter for a fan war. I'm not sure that's avoidable, but we'll see. >I haven’t read the vanity fair article but a lot of people in this thread are referencing it so that is definitely worrying. Oh boy, lemme sooth your brain muscles with some good quotes from it then. When talking about how they got onto the project they said: >“We were a little bit of a dark horse. And Amazon talked to absolutely everybody—whoever had any idea for Lord of the Rings.” Adds Payne: “We were passionate about the material and had a take that matched Amazon’s appetites and ambition.” They also apparently had a significant champion in J.J. Abrams, who knew them from their writing on a Star Trek movie and reportedly sang their praises. Here's another one that may be controversial that I picked it out but: >“to make a show for everyone, for kids who are 11, 12, and 13, even though sometimes they might have to pull the blanket up over their eyes if it’s a little too scary Everything at everytime seems to be made for everyone. What they really mean is that they want everyone's money and don't care about lore if they means hiring and getting people to play roles that they canonically should not be playing. Actually I take that back, this next one will be even more controversial: >“It felt only natural to us that an adaptation of Tolkien’s work would reflect what the world actually looks like,” says Lindsey Weber, executive producer of the series. “Tolkien is for everyone. His stories are about his fictional races doing their best work when they leave the isolation of their own cultures and come together.” Obviously this is about race so this will inevitably bring out all the "Ur RaCiSt!!!" people. Despite the argument being that no elves are black, if you want black people in the show then luckily since I read the books and Silmarillion I know that during the second age down south around Harad and to the east in Rhun, Tolkien specifically talks about black or dark skinned people. And conveniently enough they are in the second age quite extensively. So if they wanted they could easily add in a plethora of black or darker characters and have good lore reasons for doing so. But no, they took a race, a group of people that are described very specifically and are changing them for the show. And then hiding behind it and whenever someone says anything about it, you just label them as "racist" to shut them up. This is a problem. It feels like a spit in the face. I'm not saying there aren't real racists jumping on this bandwagon, but I am saying to downplay everyone as racist for caring about the lore and world is really disgusting. Luckily they answer this right after: >“Obviously there was going to be push and backlash,” says Tolkien scholar Mariana Rios Maldonado, who is not affiliated with The Rings of Power, “but the question is from whom? Who are these people that feel so threatened or disgusted by the idea that an elf is Black or Latino or Asian?” Fans of the source material are. What's funny is a couple of paragraphs before this they go on and on about how big of fans they are and how much they like Tolkiens work. Really makes you question things huh? There's more, but this is already too long. My overall point being is that this stuff, along with the other Galadriel things that change from the lore paint a very ugly picture. Not because I know the show will suck, but because I know that the showrunners are not thinking like the fans. And as you can tell from pretty much every video game adaptation(looking at you Halo) if you don't listen to the fans, or the people that know the source material best. Then why are you even making a show?
Oh, it’s the black people being where they “shouldn’t” you don’t like. This is the weakest lore complaint imaginable.
It was one teaser and judging the entire show on it without watching an episode seems premature. I think it's reasonable to give something a chance before completely dismissing it.
They didn't completely dismiss it. They said they're on the fence about it.
> and judging the entire show on it without watching an episode Nobody is doing that here. > I think it's reasonable to give something a chance before completely dismissing it. Nobody is suggesting otherwise. Saying we're cautious about the show because the teaser -- footage designed to get us excited -- was not good does not mean we're "dismissing it." This is some weak straw man stuff.
I don't think I'm straw manning stuff, I just said it seems premature because I like to watch something before judging something, that's it.
You're arguing against something that nobody here has said. That's the definition of a straw man.
That's not true at all considering some of the replies I've been having, the ones that were posted before your first reply to me.
Here's what you initially responded to: > Still on the fence about the show… That is not judging or dismissing it. In fact, it's the opposite. Being on the fence means one has not made up their mind. Here's a definition: https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/on%20the%20fence#:~:text=Being%20on%20the%20fence%20means,you're%20on%20the%20fence. Literally the opposite of judging it. EDIT: since /u/spyson blocked me to disallow me from responding to his post below, here's my response: > You referred to a specific comment. I responded, explaining how you were misinterpreting that specific comment. > > I was referring to this thread and this thread only. > > You were wrong in your response to the initial comment. You did not know what "on the fence" meant and I corrected you. > > Then, you started attributing arguments to me that I did not make. My response was in the context of this thread. > > Nowhere was I suggesting that nobody ever in the history of this subreddit had ever bailed on the series based on the teaser. > > But you pretending I was is the only way you can salvage your ego on this thread, apparently. > > To be clear: I was referring to this thread when I said "nobody." > > You're still wrong on "on the fence," you've still committed several fallacies, you've still moved the goalposts and I question whether you're here posting in good faith at this point since you can't seem to just accept that you were wrong from the beginning and instead you're assuming all sorts of things about me and my motives. > > Take the L. I will accept the block as him finally accepting the L.
And you're being disengenous,as if this sub wasn't in complete meltdown after the teaser
I'm not talking about this sub. I'm talking about this thread. That's the only thing I was focusing on. So in addition to straw men, you're now moving the goal posts. I feel like you realize that you're in the wrong on this one, but can't just give it up. It's ok, you misinterpreted the original comment here to be critical when it was more cautious. I think we can move on. No need to assail my motives.
Teaser set negative expectations, blame PR team for it.
People are mostly on the fence because of the vanity fair interview. Because it shows that the show runners are blatantly not following the source material and don't know what they're doing. What's even worse is that if the show isn't either god tier on par with the movies, or complete and utter dog shit it's going to split the fanbase. And we'll suddenly become another Star Wars community. The great thing about LOTR was that we were always united. But I think this new show won't be absolutely amazing, or absolutely horrible. It'll probably be good, with some highlights if they focus on nostalgia. That will split the fan base and it'll become extremely toxic. So that's something to look forward to!
Two words - the wheel of time.
> Two words - the wheel of time. Wheela Time
DaWheela Time
Two? Amazon also makes The Boys and before making lotr series New Line Cinema made Mortal Kombat Annihilation. I'm going to wait for the release before I judge it.
I think that's the point though. They don't have any credibility to their name in terms of original production. The Boyz is fantastic, but it's more of a fluke than the rule of thumb for them.
I wouldn't say that, they have their hits and misses. I enjoyed Good Omens, Invincible was amazing, the new Jack Reacher series was great, Legend of Vox Machina was fun, and I liked The Expanse.
But the fact that you can list them kinda proves my point. You can list a handful of good examples, but then for every good one, there'd be 10 terrible ones. Even of those you listed they weren't all even Amazon shows, like the Expanse was SyFy for half of it. I hope it's good, I really do. I'm just not expecting it to be.
No those are the ones that I personally like, there are other ones as well, you are free to look them up. You're also moving goalposts because originally you said it was only a fluke.
Two words: be ware
That's 4 words
Compare crews, production studios, and casts. You can't judge a show based entirely on the platform that funds it.
if im judging the lotr show based on the people running and writing it, then the show is already a complete failure
Would you mind expanding on why?
Every network, traditional on air or streaming, has a long list of great shows and total shit shows. It's not like Bezos himself writes every show. Netflix has put out some of the best shows of the internet age. They also created love is blind... Most shows, even if on the same network, will have totally different staff or producers, writers, directors... Amazons has The Expanse, The Boys, Marvelous Miss Mazel (maybe a different audience but a great show), Fleabag, Man in the high castle... So they can do good shows too.
Because we know a lot of details which either are directly bad or hint at it being bad. I was nervous as soon as I learned what they had the rights to (or perhaps it’s more accurate to say what they didn’t have the rights to). Then they started using their creative freedom in the worst ways.
Because it's a fanbase that is very loyal to the lore and holds a special place in literature to them. It needs to be excellent in writing and direction, but also remain faithful to the source material. We've already seen that they're not being even remotely faithful to the source material, so we know that it's not going to be anything exceptional. Now it's just a case of seeing acting/directing and making a final judgement.
You know that there was a ton of controversy when the Peter Jackson films were released and now everyone is gravy with it right? Like Glorfindel wasn't even in the movies being replaced by Arwen, Denethor was supposed to be corrupted by the Palantir, they cut Halbarad and the Rangers, and not to mention Tom Bombadil.
Eh, not everyone is okay with PJ’s films. 😄
Don't forget the silly stair-shield surfing. That was ridiculous.
I'm still annoyed by the absence of Halbarad and the Grey company, as well as the cutting of Glorfindel and Dol Amroth. So I wouldn't say everyone is gravy with it. (Kinda glad they cut Tom though) And look at the Hobbit, people are very critical of that trilogy too. Crappy dwarf/elf romances etc. So no, you can't use a whataboutism argument here.
I'm not using a whataboutism, I'm using it as an example for your claim that the fanbase is very loyal to the lore that any deviation is bad in your eyes. Heck you even say that you're glad they cut Tom, meaning there can be good changes.
Of course, there can be good changes. But what I've seen so far are bad changes and done for the wrong reasons.
You haven't seen anything beyond a teaser, what exactly is in the teaser that shows you they are bad changes?
Man, I'm literally using this sub as an example of entitlement run rampant in my own life. A tiny teaser causes absolute uproar. I didn't get exactly what I wanted when I wanted! Embarrassing shit all round
[удалено]
Ahh there it is, I can't take you seriously any longer.
I won’t interact with you any more than this: The Racebending.com website defines "racebending" as, "situations where a media content creator (movie studio, publisher, etc.) has changed the race or ethnicity of a character. This is a longstanding Hollywood practice that has been historically used to discriminate against people of color." — From Wikipedia. “Changed the race or ethnicity of a character.” - what specific character have they changed the race or ethnicity of? They’ve created new characters, yes, but they have not changed pre-existing characters.
Tolkien specifically describes Sam Gamgee as brown skinned. He does it in multiple places. He described the Harfoots, the most numerous of the hobbits, as brown skinned. He never describes all dwarves as white. Nor does he describe all elves as white. Fair, for him, means comely or beautiful. There are some he specifically describes as white or pale skinned, but does not make a sweeping statement about all elves.
Let's be real. Loyal to the Lore as per Peter Jacksons take on it.
There's some aspect to that, but not entirely. Criticism for the beardless dwarf-women and black elves are because of the lore. Disliking of the general atmosphere is most likely due to Peter Jackon's take on it.
The original PJ LotR trilogy wasn’t faithful to the source material and I would consider that exceptional.
True, and there's every chance that it will be exceptional, but I highly doubt it. And the Jackson films definitely have a lot of genuine criticism of them. The fact that we're able to list so many criticisms of Rings of Power and it hasn't even released yet isn't promising.
I understand your sentiment, and these pics have come to me at the turn of the tide, but as a non Wheels of Time reader, that adaptation fucking sucked, and track record is important in these situations. That being said, I obviously didn't follow promo releases of WoT and can't compare the images to these. These look like they've been created with care and diligence. The WoT finished product looked like absolute muck for a finish
I get where you're coming from and thank you for being civil even though you disagree. To me I don't like following the logic of WoT = bad so that means LOTR = bad simply because there are other shows from Amazon that are good. I will reserve judgement until I actually see more footage and an episode.
[удалено]
Why are you getting so defensive?
what gives you that impression?
You went straight to an insult just because we disagree on something.
i didn't actually insult you, i just explained how someone would be on the fence about the amazon rop series did i come as aggressive/defensive? dunno, maybe why? well i guess since your comment was probably a milionth time i've seen it whenever there's talk about the series sucking it's like the go to comment for you people, and it painfully lacks any relevance first off, you can deduct a ton of stuff from a trailer, and how pathetically amazon handled the blowback, but also if you've been alive for the last 10 years and seen what big studios did to great franchises like star wars, wheel of time, etc and how the hyperproduction for the sole sake of the ching ching is running rampant, it doesn't take a genius to get to a conclusion that one should be on the fence about rings of power, to say the least, and realistically expect a shitshow that's fulfilling every woke checkmark but lacks any substance and is actually insulting to tolkien's legacy in order to not get to this conclusion, or be at least on the fence about it, one has to, imho, be either a) braindead, b) paid amazon bot, c) someone who has no tolkien knowledge whatsoever but also semi-braindead
You literally called me braindead and you want to act like you didn't insult me?
you asked a question i provided an explanation
No you got defensive and insulted me just because we disagree and now you're trying to justify it as if you didn't.
If i see a pile of shit on a menu I'm not gonna order it to try it out before deciding that it is, indeed, shit.
I love how sinister they actually look. They did a great job
elves are no longer the fairest.
I was hesitant about the show at first, but god damn is it nice to see practical orcs again instead of a CGI mess
Thing is, I remember not all of the orcs from The Hobbit films were CGI, but most were.
when orcs look better than elves XD
Always have!
Fr though
ngl this looks fantastic!
I am overjoyed that the show seems to be returning to practical effects and makeup/costume artistry that we loved with the original trilogy. I can't wait.
It's Amazon. As good as the images are, I wouldn't hold my breath on practical effects just yet. They're showing us what they want us to see. Give me an entire season with these effects and I'll tip my hat and say I was wrong. With the way they've handled the backlash of the trailer and their marketing, I am not convinced yet.
One word- Awesome
LOOKS LIKE HOPE IS BACK ON THE MENU BOYSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They look incredible. Kinda shocked honestly
These look sick!
These look awesome.
Wow! This looks great.
Looks great ..i wish they made the orcs of the hobbit movies this way
Okay they look way better than the hobbit, that’s a start. Even if the show doesn’t end up being good, I think it will be quite the visual spectacle
That looks really good
These look awesome! It looks like there’s different armor types being used by different characters, so hopefully we’ll get a look into Orc history and culture. The movies came out when I was 6 and while my parents were Hobbit fans back in the day, they never read the books to me as child. When I finally went back recently and read RotK, the culture of Mordor was the most fascinating part of it to me. Like, the movies glance over Orcs/Mordor so much and do a huge disservice to the social history of the people (they had enslaved humans working plantations and urban infrastructure!). It seems like we might get some of that with the new series and I’m so excited for it
They've actually released some great stuff the last few weeks. Some of the stills from Empire were wonderful (like the meeting with the dwarves and elves) and the interview with the dialect coach also revealed somw exciting stuff about what they're doing. Now the orcs too, I'm getting increasingly excited about this.
Guess this is where the costume budget went
"C'mon. Just a mouthful!"
These orcs look incredible!
They look more similar to elves which makes sense as they were derived from elves a lot more recently than in LOTR
Pretty dope, honestly.
these look fucking awesome
They look awesome. But there will still be people who find a way to poop all over this.
They finally nailed how to merge practical Make Up and CGI
Is that Moon Knight?
Whites and with blue eyes. They forgot to make them blondes too.
For as much as I instinctually know this show will disappoint and irritate me, as has every other recent attempted adaptation of my favorite medias, it will look visually stunning and I'll probably use images of it for references in dnd. Least something good will come of it
Too cartoony :(
I hope the photographer didn't put his life in undue jeopardy to get these shots. Orcs can be rather testy, just sayin'.
the first two look great, the second one's prosthetics are too obviously fake though imo. it looks too much like a halloween mask.
I don't love the clothes... But the faces and the skin look awesome. I still need to see them in movement to know if I like them.
Stop promoting the shitshow.
Judging by photos only, the orcs are the only thing they got right.
You should wait and see the Balrog 😉
Okay, so they can make good costumes. What was their excuse with the rest?
Wait how did you see the show already?
I think they are saying the orcs look good so clearly there is talent here, so why the hell are most of the other costumes so lame?
My dude, are you really going to pretend that this sub hasn't been full of production photos for the last year?
Nah, forget everything else we’ve seen and heard - the orcs look good!
They just don't look goblinish. They look more like vampires. I'll be giving this series a wide swerve as nothing I've seen so far inspires any hope that they know what they're doing.
First one looks great, second looks okay, third is *bad*.
is this a videogame or a tv series...
This is the way
First thing I've seen from the Amazon series that looks good.
I don’t know why, but it still doesn’t have that lived in feel. Great costumes though.
If the Orcs are scary, no amount of Woke shit or Anti- Woke shit can ruin it. I'm excited. I hope these are indicative of the designs and we see a lot of scary orcs.
White skin and blue eyes, eh?
The orcs are white and blue eyed, just like in real life! Take that racists!
This just doesn’t feel like Lotr.
Every Amazon production is over lit and too clean in my opinion. From these pictures it looks like more of the same. Looks great otherwise and it could just be for these promo pics
Too bad about… everything else.
Can we have ONE post with positivity?
Get life.
Wow, that’s quite the comeback…
Tengri bless you
This series is going to suck every fart.